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A Blogger Call With Hillary Clinton: It's the Map Not the Math

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:32:11 PM EST
Tags: Hillary Clinton (all tags)
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Update: Taylor Marsh has posted the audio of the call here.

****

We had a great blogger call with a very hoarse Hillary Clinton today. It was just for bloggers so she could thank us for our support.

She is staying in the race. She is ahead in the popular vote by 50,000 votes, counting Florida and Michigan which must be counted. She intends to continue to lead in the popular vote when June 3 comes around and everyone has voted.

The number one message: It's the map not the math. In addition to the popular vote, the electoral map shows her with a cushion and Obama with a deficit. She has won 311 electoral votes to Obama's 217. While a few of her's like Texas and Oklahoma will be a challenge in November, many of his states will be: Alaska, Idaho, Utah, to name a few.

It's especially important to focus on this because it’s what superdelegates are supposed to be doing, exercising independent judgment to determine who would be the better candidate against John McCain in November.

She's in Oregon today, she'll be doing a televised town hall tonight that Obama was invited to participate in but declined. He won’t debate her or stand side by side with her to debate issues. That's a disservice to the people of Oregon.

More...

She also talked about the blogosphere, saying she deeply regrets the vitriol and mean spiritedness and insults that have been thrown around at bloggers for supporting her and at women in general, but this too shall pass. She said she's imperviious to the insults and almost sees it as a perverse (reverse?)form of flattery.

Further reading:

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    • Display: Sort:
    A Blogger Call With Hillary Clinton: It's the Map Not the Math | 249 comments (249 topical)
    Hope someone told her to do something about her (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Molly Pitcher on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:37:10 PM EST
    throat.  Can't have her unable to talk tonight--unless Bill or Chelsea could do the speech!

    I am encouraged by your figures and her determination.

    Heh (5.00 / 7) (#8)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:38:21 PM EST
    Thanks for this "hoarse race" post, Jeralyn.

    Heh. (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by scribe on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:39:20 PM EST
    Friday afternoon humor.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by barryluda on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:40:18 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    We're warned to expect a hoarse HRC (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:54:17 PM EST
    in little more than an hour then, when she will be on a call-in with phonebankers from around the country.  And then on to an evening event for her?  I get tired just thinking of reading her calendar.

    And her attitude -- a reverse/perverse compliment? -- is one I'll take with me, too.  I remember being besieged by horrible so-called male colleagues spreading rumors and doing awful attacks in the workplace, when it was a man I trusted who helped me see it for what it was: Others who were coasting at work felt threatened by competence.  

    I gotta work on a great chuckle like hers, if it happens to me again.  (And it will; it's life in the workplace for women:-).  What an example she is.

    [ Parent ]

    "Reverse/perverse compliment." (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by oculus on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:14:03 PM EST
    Hoping Hillary Clinton telling her supporters how she views the unmitigated misogyny will instruct her supporters to move on, talk about the merits of her candidacy, why she is better able to win the GE, why she will be the best President.

    [ Parent ]
    Agreed 100% (5.00 / 5) (#120)
    by ghost2 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:46:14 PM EST
    She is a tremendous role model.  I love her. She sticks to the her goal, despite the unison battle crys from men and boys (media, blogs, politics).  What is it they say? Polite women never make history?

    This election brought out the misogeny in the media and proved sexism exists far MORE among political insiders, the media heads, and the elite, than the normal working class voters.

    It's our task to NEVER forget it.  That's my motto.  I shall remember.

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary call is at 7pm eastern (4.80 / 5) (#119)
    by karen for Clinton on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:45:25 PM EST
    The OR and KY Get Out The Vote participants will get to hear it from her directly on the phone. That will surely be inspiration to make calls.

    The DNC sent me a fundraising request and had the gall to include this line in reference to republicans: "They're gearing up for a Swift Boat offensive on our nominee"

    I wrote back stating "you have no nominee and it will not be swift boating it will be the truth" and followed with a ranting two page letter that nobody will bother to read but had to come out.

    [ Parent ]

    Her graciousness is so (5.00 / 4) (#166)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:31:36 PM EST
    inspirational, and unique for someone in a position where so few can see beyond themselves from that elevation.


    [ Parent ]
    Ha! I did the same thing! (5.00 / 5) (#215)
    by Lysis on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:39:34 PM EST
    It wasn't quite two pages, but I basically said that I saw no reason to be a Democrat if the party doesn't stand up against sexism. If Obama's the nominee, there's a good chance I won't be voting in the presidential race.  

    [ Parent ]
    Glad to hear the campaign will talk up the map (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by kempis on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:45:12 PM EST
    In the end, all that will matter on election night is which states turn blue and which turn red. Right now, according to the state polling, it's looking like Hillary Clinton has a better chance of flipping Ohio, holding PA and MI, and flipping FL.

    Obama's chances to flip small western states or NC and/or VA are, in my humble estimation, overrated. So is his ability to hold on to PA.

    I agree with BTD that Obama's a media darling and as such they give him a nice coating of teflon. But even with media-applied teflon, even with $$$ and a superior organization, even with the implicit endorsement of most of the DNC leadership, Obama lost Ohio, PA, WV, RI, IN, TX, and next week he'll lose KY.

    A significant number of voters, particularly voters who have more in common with the bulk of GE voters than Obama-supporters do, aren't climbing aboard the Obama bandwagon.

    This is a serious problem best illustrated with those electoral maps. I hope to see people talking about them on the cable/network news programs--if I could stand to watch those programs anymore....Maybe it's more honest to say that I hope to HEAR about people talking about them. :)

    P.S. Maybe people will begin to wonder (5.00 / 5) (#28)
    by kempis on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:55:41 PM EST
    ...why the hell the superdelegates are marching to Obama's side like lemmings. And maybe then they'll wonder what's behind their decision that Obama is the best candidate to go up against McCain when McCain beats him in most electoral map models but loses to Hillary.

    [ Parent ]
    Nah. Even a lot of the smart commenters (5.00 / 8) (#41)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:07:08 PM EST
    here don't want to deal with the cognitive dissonance that would come with confronting the answers, it's clear.  And believe me, I hear from a lot of really smart -- well, educated -- folks I know who simply can't acknowledge realities of the electoral college (even one who went daily to the sites on that in the last two elections and emailed constantly about it; he ignores it now), realities of DNC rules and that delegates can switch, realities of Republican attack ads ahead . . . and especially, realities of sexism -- in themselves.

    It's so much easier for them to keep talking about "teh math."  And sending me stupid anti-Clinton cartoons and really nasty emails.  Oh, and the worst are from family members who say they love me and just want to correct the error of my ways.

    What an eye-opener it all has been, huh?

    [ Parent ]

    yep, it's been frustrating and heartbreaking.... (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by kempis on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:15:05 PM EST
    And, like you say, I'm stunned by the blind spots that my Obama-supporting friends have, all of which keep them from giving any serious consideration to that electoral map.

    [ Parent ]
    I do not understand what the educated (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by MarkL on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:17:14 PM EST
    class sees in Obama. I would think that the business and management types would be the ones to swoon over his empty rhetoric.

    [ Parent ]
    Two reasons (5.00 / 3) (#225)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:48:48 PM EST
    The bulk of his base is comprised of:

    a) students who don't know any better than to believe the empty promises of a politician.

    b) old-school uber-liberals who are completely caught up in the idea of electing the first AA president.  At the risk of being accused of racism, I think Geraldine Ferraro was right on the mark.  It's the only logical explanation.  Yes, his speeches are inspirational, but anyone over the age of 30 should be skeptical of anyone who offers so much fluff with so little substance.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, yes, yes, exactly. (5.00 / 1) (#234)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:56:30 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I would amend the old timers (5.00 / 1) (#240)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:02:14 PM EST
    description to some who want to appear "hip" while they struggle to cross the line between 50 and 60, 60 and 70, 70 and 80, etc.

    At least the ones in my circle fall into the denial group.

    [ Parent ]

    Party (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by tek on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:08:03 PM EST
    pressure has everything to do with that.  Remember, the Republicans didn't want Dubya, except for the clique that supported his candidacy (and the fundies, of course).

    [ Parent ]
    NYT letter to the editor (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by jackyt on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:30:57 PM EST
    There's a letter on the op-ed page today by someone who clearly believes that everyone who votes for Hillary is a racist. This person is so narrow-minded that he cannot conceive that anyone could have any other criteria for casting a ballot. Talk about bigotry!

    [ Parent ]
    Think that is going to be the same (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:34:35 PM EST
    attitude they show during the GE?

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks for this post!! (5.00 / 5) (#17)
    by Andy08 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:45:47 PM EST
    I am thrilled to hear HRC is upbeat and fighting on.
    We are with her.

    Doesn't Obama realize how weak he looks making such a huge effort to avoid debating HRC ?

    What is he afraid of?

    He says he'll do side-by-side (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by oculus on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:49:30 PM EST
    debats with McCain w/o moderators.  Isn't that enough?  <snk.>

    [ Parent ]
    Enough to infuriate me! (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by Joan in VA on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:54:20 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Exactly. What a jerk. (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:56:43 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    How many debates have he and Sen. Clinton (1.00 / 1) (#50)
    by digdugboy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:10:38 PM EST
    done to date? 23 or so? Why more, now? He knows he's the presumptive nominee, and he serves his party better by campaigning against McCain instead of Clinton now.

    McCain
    [ Parent ]
    About 4 side by side. (5.00 / 4) (#61)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:14:23 PM EST
    People sure seem to want to see them debate.  

    [ Parent ]
    I don't want to see any more debates (1.00 / 2) (#65)
    by digdugboy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:17:21 PM EST
    between Barack and Hillary. I've seen enough. Clinton supports seem to want more, hoping that somehow this will change the predicted outcome. Oregon mass media probably wouldn't mind seeing more for commercial reasons.

    After watching Charlie and George moderate the last debate, I think I've seen too much.

    McCain
    [ Parent ]

    I know why (5.00 / 7) (#83)
    by Edgar08 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:26:23 PM EST
    No one wants to see him debate Clinton any more.

    [ Parent ]
    Yep. (5.00 / 3) (#111)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:43:13 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Why Obama supporters don't want debates (5.00 / 2) (#227)
    by dotcommodity on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:50:17 PM EST
    yep.

    [ Parent ]
    He serves himself ony (5.00 / 9) (#66)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:17:37 PM EST
    He's hiding out.  The large debates were with panels where it was sound bite responses.  The few debates they had by themselves had huge ratings. If Obama was interested in the voters, he would let them get to know him, but the reality is his weakness is debating.  A primary debate would be a safer crowd than a GE debate will ever give him.  Let his supporters do the booing garbage with Repubs and see how that goes over.

    [ Parent ]
    presumptuous not presumptive (5.00 / 5) (#71)
    by moll on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:19:26 PM EST
    He knows he's the presumptive nominee

    too bad the voters don't.

    [ Parent ]

    I prefer 'he assumes he's the nominee' (5.00 / 4) (#86)
    by nycstray on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:27:29 PM EST
    since we all know about assumptions  ;)

    [ Parent ]
    I Don't Know About That (5.00 / 7) (#75)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:22:09 PM EST
    The Democratic Party in N.C. lost over 300,000 dollars in revenue when he refused to debate there. That money might have done a lot of good for the Democratic Party in N.C.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't worry. (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:48:44 PM EST
    If the NC Party pledges fealty to Teh Obama then I'm sure He will compensate them.

    [ Parent ]
    They should send the bill to (5.00 / 1) (#243)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:06:05 PM EST
    Barack.

    [ Parent ]
    A clear vision of him pushing her off to the side (5.00 / 4) (#184)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:58:09 PM EST
    as not worth his time. And, he wants her supporters to move into his camp.

    How can he behave this way and not realize that, should he get the nomination at convention, he will forever be viewed as having stolen it?

    [ Parent ]

    yeah and I like how he wants to call out JMcSame (5.00 / 5) (#31)
    by thereyougo on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:59:51 PM EST
    like he's the bigger of the 3 for a debate.

    He better get a reality check. He's trying to minimize Hillary, yet, if he THINKS he's in, he has another lesson to learn from the pro, Mrs. Clinton.

    and she is the pro. The votes haven't been counted yet in Oregon, but he's fighting attacksf from the president, McCain, et al, from all sides. Of course this is helping Hillary

    wow, just wow.

    I think he's hemorrhaging and he doesn't even know it.  

    [ Parent ]

    Not MRS. Clinton (5.00 / 6) (#38)
    by tek on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:05:22 PM EST
    SENATOR CLinton!

    [ Parent ]
    She even gave the better protest on his behalf (5.00 / 9) (#44)
    by BarnBabe on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:08:24 PM EST
    Yesterday he made a statement about the Bush speech. She made a better objection one. So today he had to redo his protest speech and make it stronger. She got the headline yesterday.

    I was just talking to my GOP neighbor who turned Dem because she wants Hillary for Pres. She said to me, I don't think I can vote for Obama. I just do not think he is ready. She is so smart and knows about all topics. He hems and haws and says he will get back to you. I found that interesting.

    [ Parent ]

    He'll get back to you...sweetie (5.00 / 2) (#231)
    by dotcommodity on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:55:09 PM EST
    apparently he also called Senator Boxer a "cutie" last year per Reclusive Leftist - I wonder if thats on Shakesvilles 99 examples list?

    [ Parent ]
    It is condescending (5.00 / 2) (#247)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:08:31 PM EST
    for a man to use pet names on women who are in a higher position, and are older than they are.

    [ Parent ]
    Do you have any polling data (none / 0) (#56)
    by digdugboy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:12:14 PM EST
    suggesting that he's bleeding?

    McCain
    [ Parent ]
    yes indeed (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:02:35 PM EST
    a great way to end the week

    [ Parent ]
    Why should the presumptive nominee (5.00 / 14) (#47)
    by litigatormom on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:08:44 PM EST
    debate the delusional middle-aged stalker who refuses to understand she's already lost the nomination?

    Of course, he won't say it that way. He'll just think it. Sweetie.

    [ Parent ]

    It's deluded Obamies that don't understand (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by ANewDay2008 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:46:30 PM EST
    that the race ain't over.

    Sorry.

    [ Parent ]

    Shameful comment (none / 0) (#59)
    by digdugboy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:13:35 PM EST
    You're better than that.

    McCain
    [ Parent ]
    Well (5.00 / 18) (#63)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:15:29 PM EST
    I suppose she could have been like you, and claimed that Hillary knows she's already lost but is lying to her supporters about it to get their money.

    You have no room whatsoever to be lecturing anyone about shameful comments.

    [ Parent ]

    Have you noticed how often the shame (5.00 / 5) (#85)
    by Joan in VA on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:27:12 PM EST
    card is played around here lately? Trying to shame us into submission? Definitely not working.

    [ Parent ]
    McCain is still (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:31:46 PM EST
    presumptive.  Nothing is done till the convention.  Can people get that in their heads.

    [ Parent ]
    why not go the whole hog (none / 0) (#229)
    by Saxon on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:51:58 PM EST
    and say nothing is certain until the elections - you know he might die before the election and then he is not really the nominee!

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary shows us right there at the top: (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by felizarte on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:54:21 PM EST
    "reverse compliment."  Thanks Hillary!  Now I feel like I am also wearing that kind of armor.  I no longer feel my blood pressure rising.

    [ Parent ]
    She knows her only chance is some catastrrophic (1.00 / 2) (#73)
    by digdugboy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:21:10 PM EST
    scandal hitting Obama between now and August. She is too smart a politician not to know this. So, yes, she is deceiving her supporters by not acknowledging this reality, but it's a deception that's common in political races. She can't really come out and say "look, I know my chances are remote here."

    McCain
    [ Parent ]
    Actually it wouldn't take much. (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by MarkL on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:25:27 PM EST
    For instance: set 2209 as the magic number, and Obama is no longer the presumptive nominee.

    [ Parent ]
    "catastrrophic scandal" (5.00 / 14) (#82)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:26:18 PM EST
    like counting all the votes?

    [ Parent ]
    That typo was accidental (none / 0) (#99)
    by digdugboy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:33:24 PM EST
    but I might consider making more of them, if that will increase your sense of well-being.

    McCain
    [ Parent ]
    there was a typeo? (none / 0) (#126)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:48:20 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Oh, stop it. No one has been nominated yet. (5.00 / 7) (#89)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:28:52 PM EST
    He peaked in February.  She's the best we got.  There really is no persuasive argument for nominating a candidate who has become weaker over the stronger candidate.  Look if you want to make it about delegate counts fine.  But don't fool yourself that this is a tremendously popular candidate, and she's squat.  They are about even in votes and she has outperformed him since the first week of March.

    [ Parent ]
    maybe that's the problem in a nutshell (5.00 / 12) (#160)
    by Kathy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:23:31 PM EST
    women have no tolerance for a man who peaks too soon.  Men want to give him every advantage and second chance possible.

    [ Parent ]
    check out Erica Jong's post (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by bjorn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:26:53 PM EST
    Erica Jong's postit is excellent

    [ Parent ]
    Some of the comments (5.00 / 3) (#199)
    by zfran on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:18:43 PM EST
    posted below the article are atrociously wicked. I think some of these Sen. Obama supporters think this is American Idol or something. One remarked how those of us from the 60's and 70's cannot stand that we are now irrevelent and old....ah, can hardly wait for 20 or 30 years to pass for them..where will they be!!!!

    [ Parent ]
    oops..s/b irrelevent, I guess (5.00 / 2) (#200)
    by zfran on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:20:06 PM EST
    my fingers don't work like when I was younger!!

    [ Parent ]
    Snort! (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by NWHiker on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:09:40 PM EST
    Diet Coke on monitor and keyboard.

    Thanks for the laugh!

    [ Parent ]

    i am a man (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by arjay on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:14:01 PM EST
    and i think this comment is funny but I also hate this idea that Hillary supporters are all women.

    [ Parent ]
    digdug.... (none / 0) (#256)
    by oldpro on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:28:42 AM EST
    We all know what the score is...Hillary knows and her supporters know.  She's not concealing anything from us...

    [ Parent ]
    It's still a race (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by barryluda on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:47:10 PM EST
    and I'm glad that Clinton is staying positive -- rather than using the chance today to attack Obama, instead she appropriately attacked Bush / McCain.  She's a class act.

    As I've said, IMO whoever wins this thing will have earned it, no matter what happens.  The Supers will decide it -- that's the rules.  Everyone, especially the candidates, have every right to try to influence them.  But in the end, it really isn't the Map, the Math, or anything else.  At this point, it's the Super Delegates.

    This candidate OBVIOUSLY (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:49:34 PM EST
    has all the right stuff in all the right measure to be our next President during these very challenging and trying times.

    I've always said she's tougher than I am :) (5.00 / 13) (#23)
    by kempis on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:52:12 PM EST
    She also talked about the blogosphere, saying she deeply regrets the vitriol and mean spiritedness and insults that have been thrown around at bloggers for supporting her and at women in general, but this too shall pass. She said she's imperviious to the insults and almost sees it as a perverse (reverse?)form of flattery.

    Love it. She's one tough cookie and I appreciate her efforts to model gracious thick-skinned-ness to us all. I aspire to be impervious to insults, too, when I grow up. :) In the meantime, I sure do admire her resilience and her ability to maintain focus on something positive. Really extraordinary quality. I admire her more each day.

    Thanks for the report.

    Heh (5.00 / 7) (#51)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:10:49 PM EST
    "I am flattered by your fascination with me."

    It's hard to see how anyone could fail to admire Hillary's tenacity.  I wish my daughter were old enough to understand what an inspiration she is.

    [ Parent ]

    Dude (5.00 / 14) (#68)
    by BDB on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:18:15 PM EST
    She actually said to Bill O'Reilly, "Americans don't like demagogues[.]"  

    As much as I like Hillary, I'm not sure I've ever been as impressed by any mainstream democrat as I was with her during that O'Reilly interview.  She got him to agree to pay a higher tax rate and to subisdize working families' health insurance.  

    [ Parent ]

    how long we have waited for a (5.00 / 1) (#237)
    by dotcommodity on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:59:09 PM EST
    Fightin Dem like that!

    [ Parent ]
    I prefer Obama but (5.00 / 5) (#30)
    by trublueCO on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:58:12 PM EST
    in the end, I think we have a great chance with either Obama or Clinton. Kudos to Hillary for showing some tenacity. Kudos to Obama for beating everybody's expections (at least when this all started) for how long he would last.

    I think, whoever ultimately gets the nomination, that the party should trot both out on stage on national television and give them a standing ovation. Both have done an extraordinary job re-energizing core Dems and bringing millions upon millions more into the fold. We are creating a movement that will last for a decade!

    Exactly how I feel (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by barryluda on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:18:42 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yes, I hope there is not the usual booing (5.00 / 4) (#113)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:43:28 PM EST
    of her for all to see on national tv, if it happens again at the convention.

    That behavior seems to be growing, not declining, and it really turns off a lot of older voters, they tell me.  And, of course, it turns off a lot of us.

    Obama's campaign ought to be able to stop it in a Chicago minute.  That they don't is so telling.

    [ Parent ]

    That would seal the deal (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:04:48 PM EST
    for me, and I would hope at least some of his SDs would realize they needed to change their alliance before they vote.

    The jealousy must be blinding.

    [ Parent ]

    Too bad (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Molly Pitcher on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:52:50 PM EST
    the Democratis Party won't make it!

    [ Parent ]
    Who were the other bloggers (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by BarnBabe on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:00:14 PM EST
    Besides BTD of course. Obama bloggers or just Hillary ones? Dud Obama do something like this and were you invited because of TalkLeft and your position for Hillary.

    interesting questions (5.00 / 0) (#58)
    by CanadianDem on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:12:57 PM EST
    I always get reminded of the feeling I got when Bush et al used to have sitdowns with the redstate etc bloggers...although I'm thinking it's not really the same, still get that feeling though.

    [ Parent ]
    I would think that blog readers (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by Iris on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:46:23 PM EST
    would be excited that Hillary reaches out to her supporters in the blogosphere and gives us encouragement.  It's a stark contrast to the way Obama has dissed the blogosphere and tried to simply control us.

    [ Parent ]
    Did you use search function here (none / 0) (#115)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:44:18 PM EST
    to see?

    [ Parent ]
    Glad to hear (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by tek on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:08:42 PM EST
    Hillary will be the nominee.  Now I can enjoy the weekend.

    The Clinton Juggernaut (5.00 / 5) (#49)
    by BDB on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:09:41 PM EST
    Why Clinton is stronger in the GE than Obama.  With nifty charts!  

    great analysis - thanks! (none / 0) (#156)
    by Josey on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:16:59 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    intersting link from Corrente shows the (none / 0) (#242)
    by dotcommodity on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:04:38 PM EST
    Obama campaign, in its famous internal spreadsheet that was accidentally sent to Bloomberg News some time ago, put Indiana solidly in Obama's column in its post-Feb. 5 projections. In fact, at that time the Obama campaign estimated that his margin in Indiana would be almost as big in North Carolina (seven points versus six points).

    7 point win in IN? Nope. 3 point loss.

    [ Parent ]

    its the MAP not the MATH (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by neilario on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:10:57 PM EST
    thanks for the post. somehow it didnt sound right the way you have it in the post title. i am listening to the audio and senator clinton says  its the MAP not the MATH  which makes much more sense... fyi :}

    Yes... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by gmo on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:23:38 PM EST
    ...just listened to it as well.  I believe she says it's the MAP not the MATH.

    [ Parent ]
    that does make a lot more sense (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by bjorn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:24:35 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I believe that is what is known as (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by independent voter on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:24:57 PM EST
    Freudian slip

    [ Parent ]
    Obama backsliding since early March (5.00 / 4) (#67)
    by pluege on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:18:10 PM EST
    Obama peaked in early March after winning a bunch of  states that won't vote democratic in November. He's been all down hill across the board from there, except for the A-A constituency. Not only has he not solidified the non-A-A constituencies, but he's been losing strength in every key demographic and being exposed as having numerous serious weaknesses. At this point its pretty clear that superdelegates would be crazy to coronate him and would not be fulfilling their function.  

    Specifically (5.00 / 1) (#253)
    by cal1942 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:24:10 PM EST
    his last win in a contested state was Wisconsin on Feb. 19.  His last win in a blue state was Vermont on Mar. 3.

    He's been sliding ever since.

    [ Parent ]

    Jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by glennmcgahee on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:18:35 PM EST
    Is is true that her post was edited by Mydd.com because she wrote about Obama's hiring of 400 bloggers to make Hillary go away so he could declare victory May 20 as rumored? I hope this is not true. I always thought the site was practical and unbias, certainly not a site to censor a writer of her caliber.

    Yes.... (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by Josmt on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:43:30 PM EST
    Yes it was...

    read about it here:

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/16/meet-me-in-denver-the-rest-of-the-story/

    [ Parent ]

    this is really starting (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:51:39 PM EST
    to get scary.
    in a bad Orwellian way.

    [ Parent ]
    Aye aye, captain, and weird and creepy, too (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by lookoverthere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:48:40 PM EST
    riverdaughter appears to have been hit by a troll-for-a-dollar-a-day.

    [ Parent ]
    I've been thinking that way (none / 0) (#203)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:22:21 PM EST
    for a long time.

    [ Parent ]
    Quite Frankly (5.00 / 8) (#141)
    by CognitiveDissonance on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:54:38 PM EST
    Hillary is my hero. I can't think of one other politician in my lifetime who could have stood up to what she has - the misognyny, the hatred, the media barrage, the meanness and hate from her own party. Seriously. Who but Hillary Clinton would still be standing, would still have her sense of humor intact, would still have a positive attitude, and would still be going full steam ahead?

    Beyond her clear superiority in experience, intellect, and encyclopedic knowledge of policy and foreign affairs. Beyond her clearly superior electability. It is her awesome courage and willingness to fight that has me hooked. We have all moaned and groaned the past 8 years as democrats in Congress caved over and over again. Why would we elect someone who can't fight when we have Xena still kicking butt and landing punch after punch, even after the kitchen sink, the stove, the refrigerator, and the dishwasher have been thrown at her?

    I agree 100% (5.00 / 3) (#154)
    by Iris on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:13:37 PM EST
    and I respectfully ask any Obama supporters here to go back and rethink some of the misperceptions you have/had about Hillary.  I know personally because I shared some of those misperceptions, but the integrity of her campaign, her command of the issues, her willingness to stand and fight, have quite convinced me.  She pushed hard for universal health care.  No one else has really done that, and I just don't see Obama really drawing a line in the sand on any issue of importance.  Hillary is fighting for US and we need to stand with her!

    It's like Jack said, "let's get serious about the future."

    [ Parent ]

    And despite all of this... (1.00 / 10) (#146)
    by TheKSG on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:03:19 PM EST
    and despite her name recognition, party base, her husband, her daughter, she still can't win.  

    I'm glad she's someone's hero.  I know people that have been through a lot more, and stood even taller.  Those are real heroes.  Fortunately, none are politicians.  But if your heroes a politician, more power to you.  You can find good apparently where there is little.

    [ Parent ]

    She can win. They each have an argument. (5.00 / 3) (#149)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:09:11 PM EST
    His will be delegate lead(but not 'nuff), her's will be the map, and they will be about even with her somewhat above in the pop vote.  If I were her, I'd also argue that she's grown stronger since February, earning far more votes than him, while he's grown weaker since he peaked in WI.

    [ Parent ]
    Is there some reason... (5.00 / 3) (#155)
    by gmo on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:15:22 PM EST
    ...you feel compelled to make personal attacks on other commenters?  

    Please stick to the topic on hand, not on belittling other people who post here.

    Thanks.

    [ Parent ]

    Man (5.00 / 7) (#157)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:18:13 PM EST
    What sort of petty person listens to someone talk about a person that inspires them, and decides to mock them for it?

    Do you think if someone tells me that Barack Obama is a hero to them, that just because I'm a Clinton supporter, I go "neener neener, you're such a loser if your hero is a politician"?  Sad and pathetic.

    [ Parent ]

    The answer: a frightened and small person (5.00 / 3) (#158)
    by Marvin42 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:21:49 PM EST
    Of course this is a theoretical answer and not in any way directed to any commentator on this site, because I would NEVER violate the rules here... ;)

    [ Parent ]
    So! are you one of the people... (5.00 / 4) (#179)
    by jackyt on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:49:18 PM EST
    who is trying to woo me?

    [ Parent ]
    TheKSG (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by djcny on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:48:00 PM EST
    I suggest you remain silent if you have nothing interesting or useful to say.  Who are you to try and critique someone elses heartfelt words. Go get some self esteem and maybe you wouldn't feel the need to attack someone you don't even know on such a personal level.

    [ Parent ]
    the Oracle of Wisdom has spoken (none / 0) (#217)
    by feet on earth on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:39:55 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    You need to stop or leave (5.00 / 3) (#150)
    by Marvin42 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:09:39 PM EST
    Your comments are violating all kind of site rules. This is really a friendly warning. Also people here will pretty much ignore you, so you are wasting your time.

    there's been a bump (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:22:12 PM EST
    in trolling lately, I've noticed.

    [ Parent ]
    400 blogger assault vehicle (5.00 / 1) (#245)
    by dotcommodity on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:07:27 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Maybe that person (5.00 / 1) (#248)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:10:16 PM EST
    at NoQuarter was right.

    Still, they're not winning the spin.

    And Hillary is winning over the voters wherever she goes.

    [ Parent ]

    I deleted that comment (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Jeralyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:38:57 PM EST
    and will review the entire thread later

    [ Parent ]
    How is... (1.00 / 1) (#170)
    by TheKSG on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:36:26 PM EST
    my post violating site rules?  I'm speaking to the absurdity of the previous poster.  Oh I get, I'm not kissing Hillary's butt.  

    If that's what I need to do, just let me know.  Otherwise, please clearly state how I'm doing anything different than most other posters, except stating an opposite view.  

    Seriously, if only one viewpoint is allowed on the site, let me know.  

    [ Parent ]

    You can read them yourself (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Marvin42 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:40:02 PM EST
    There is no rule against having a contrary viewpoint to this site, but race baiting or name calling is strictly not tolerated. Read your own post and see that you engaged in both.

    BTW I have nothing to do with the site or moderators, I am sure they will on their own clarify as needed. We are a civil bunch here and are not interested in flame throwing or trolling or chattering.

    [ Parent ]

    These women say (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by MichaelGale on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:10:41 PM EST
    count the votes

    Time to Pony Up (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by kaleidescope on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:42:00 PM EST
    And contribute even more to her campaign.

    By the way, I had an interesting experience today.  In reading the NYT on-line, there were a series of stories about Obama tangling with Bush and McCain.  But on the front page there wasn't a single story -- not one -- that mentioned Senator Clinton in any headline.  I think that's the first time I've seen that happen in a long time.

    Didn't you get the memo (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by Marvin42 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:44:21 PM EST
    Its over, we all just missed it. NYT has been pretty bad lately, and I am sure its part of the whole media meme.

    [ Parent ]
    The Media is So (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by kaleidescope on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:06:05 PM EST
    Unworthy.

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary can win the general election easiliy (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by josephm on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:05:45 PM EST
    I believe that if Hillary is the nominee, she will win the General Election easily. If Obama wins the nomination, I would put money on McCain. I do not believe Obama can win. By some freak chance, yeah, he might be able to win by a small margin, but I doubt that Obama would win.

    Then start counting the Obama goal posts (5.00 / 4) (#191)
    by Marvin42 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:07:42 PM EST
    From:

    1. SD are obligated to vote by the will of the people to SDs vote whatever they want,

    2. Stealing pledged delegates is WRONG to ok we are good with it,

    3. All votes count, unless its not for us,

    4. We will compete in 50/48/47/46/well just enough

    5. We can win red states to we can't even win blue states, and the grand prize....

    6. I HAVE WON BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE 2025 or 2209, BUT I HAVE MAJORITY OF PLEDGED DELEGATES (woohoo I crossed my own made up line)

    So excuse me if I just ignore your post.

    wanna win? (5.00 / 2) (#239)
    by Robert Oak on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:01:40 PM EST
    Firstly, only 28% of the ballots have been turned in Oregon.  Secondly, LTEs, write up LTEs.

    Thirdly, people need to write up actual policy differences and there are many.  Obama is slamming Hillary on the "gas tax" but completely ignores her entire policy plans for green jobs, R&D investment in alt. energies and how frankly Bill, due to his massive connections is the kind of guy to remove bottlenecks in the private sector to make that happen.  

    Women.  Hillary has way better plans for single mothers, especially the plan to provide funding for non-traditional students (i.e. single mothers) so they can attend college.

    People should be writing about those and in the Oregon news, Oregon blogs and in the Oregon major blog comment sections.

    I live here and frankly what Obama has is this mesmerizing stuff but when people find out about actual votes, policy positions, they pause.  Women, especially pause on their issues and there are also a lot of Green party types out here, so if they realize that she has the agenda as well as the ability to make it happen on alt. energies, that is going to very much give people pause.

    I Don't Think He Wants To Remind The People (4.42 / 7) (#4)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:36:08 PM EST
    of how unfair he has been to her....scratch that, he wants everyone to think he is the nominee.

    I am GLAD, GLAD, GLAD, Hillary is staying the in the race.  If people do their jobs, she will the nominee....

    GO HILLARY!!

    A champion through and through! (5.00 /