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Friday Night Open Thread

Taylor Marsh has a podcast of the Hillary Clinton blogger call this afternoon.

Clinton Town Hall in Oregon.

J is out for a while and I have to go myself for the next few hours. TChris might be around. Keep it nice please/

This is an Open Thread.

Comments now closed.

< A Blogger Call With Hillary Clinton: It's the Map Not the Math | Overnight Open Thread >
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  • Display: Sort:
    We need a response to the 32 of 49 states metric (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by dwmorris on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:19:45 PM EST
    Clinton has won more counties.

    Clinton has won more congressional districts (at least that's what I've read somewhere recently).

    These numbers should be precisely known and part of the debate ... so that they can be plastered all over the blogosphere just like the 32 of 49 metric.

    Specifically regarding number of counties won --- my own count has Clinton leading 1497 to 1304 (biased in Obama's favor - I put all the counties for KS, ND, and WA on his side of the ledger because I haven't been able to find data for these contests).

    Note to the Clinton campaign: Give us the numbers so that we have some ammo!


    Clinton has won more registered Democrats (5.00 / 6) (#69)
    by echinopsia on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:45:51 PM EST
    this one really makes them sweat. Of course they deny it. But it's true.

    [ Parent ]
    That one is bogus. (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:23:24 PM EST
    My father is a political scientist(by education) and he scoffed at that.  More states?  Completely meaningless.  He said how about more counties?

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks for that feedback (none / 0) (#236)
    by dwmorris on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:17:57 PM EST
    Just to keep the discussion going, the reason I think counties won is a good metric for the "will of the people" (which I've posted before) is ...

    Counting states is not granular enough; the popular vote requires adding apples (primary votes) and oranges (caucus votes); and the apportionment of pledged delegates has too many nondemocratic biases.

    County lines are fairly randomized historical artifacts and, nationwide, counties come in all sizes, population densities, demographic profiles, etc.

    Now, if the Clinton campaign would just cough up some audited numbers (so we don't have to do amateur hour), counties won would make a pretty good talking point.


    [ Parent ]

    immediate reply should be (5.00 / 2) (#213)
    by ghost2 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:04:10 PM EST
    She has won the electoral college.  That is the best way to give proper weight to each state won.  Small states and big states.  Also, electoral college is how the constitution treats the importance of each state, and how they are weighed in presidential elections.  They are far more representative of one-person, one-vote principle.  

    She has won the most congressional districts (according to poster below).  Again, that's a very accurate way of gauging support.

    So, in the most democratic measure one-person one-vote which gets manifested in popular vote, electoral college, and congressional districts, she is winning.  

    [ Parent ]

    Absolutely (none / 0) (#263)
    by dwmorris on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:58:51 PM EST
    I agree. The electoral college metric is one of the strongest arguments Clinton has.

    I'm harping on the counties won metric because I find Axelrod et al. so grating when they point out that Obama has won so many states (as if it means something). It is tremendously misleading to folks that aren't deep into the minutia of the campaign.

    [ Parent ]

    Are you sure that all those ... (none / 0) (#190)
    by Tortmaster on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:49:50 PM EST
    ... counties and registered Democrats are "important" counties and Democrats? How does she do against McCain amongst left-handers?

    Seriously, though, in a race to get to a specific number of delegates, I don't see the relevance of counties. I see the relevance of registered Democrats (if that information is true), but I also know that Obama brings a bunch of independents into the tent.

    We can't win the election with just Democrats.

    [ Parent ]

    Actually (5.00 / 0) (#195)
    by Emma on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:52:58 PM EST
    I believe Hillary is beating Obama with Independents, now.

    [ Parent ]
    He's been bleeding Indies and Repubs (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by nycstray on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:53:58 PM EST
    When was the last time he went around bragging about them . . .  ;)

    unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be expanding his appeal and having it show up in the votes. Not a good sign for someone who has figured he has this nailed since he won all those caucuses and has all but been handed the nom by the media and DNC.

    [ Parent ]

    The relevance of counties won is ... (5.00 / 0) (#257)
    by dwmorris on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:43:19 PM EST
    See my other comment below.

    Counties won is more relevant than states won (an often used talking point from senior members of the Obama campaign) as a metric for the "will of the people."

    As I see it, the Obama campaign (with overwhelming enablement from the MSM) has tried to redefine winning from a "majority of delegates" to a "majority of pledged delegates" based largely on an argument that this is the best metric for the democratic preference of the voters. They throw out secondary metrics, such as states won, in order to bolster the claim.

    If we are going to argue to the super delegates about who should be declared the winner based on these sorts of metrics, then we should try to broaden the discussion to include many different relevant metrics rather than allow the focus to remain on those that support the argument that Obama has already won.


    [ Parent ]

    Sweetie (5.00 / 10) (#2)
    by OrangeFur on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:19:50 PM EST
    After reading a lot of comments (on other blogs) from people defending the use of "sweetie" in professional settings, I think they've convinced me that it's no big deal and can indeed be respectful.

    Isn't that why they salute female officers by saying, "Sweetie! Yes, sweetie!"?

    It is not okay (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:25:31 PM EST
    for him to use that, especially after hearing about Bush and his "terms of endearment," which as we all know, were meant to be familiar but diminutive.

    It shows poor judgment.  Again.

    [ Parent ]

    It is condescending (5.00 / 5) (#38)
    by bridget on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:14:07 PM EST
    no doubt about it - along with calling someone esp. women "dear," and "honey."

    It used to drive me nuts when people called me any of those names, no matter if I knew them or not.

    Actually, I am sort of surprised that Obama who want's to be the "young" candidate, still has this habit of calling women "sweetie." His wife should have helped him get rid of this bad habit if that what it is.

    It really is an oldfashioned custom - something my grandmother's generation may have said. Come to think of it, it rarely happens to me these days. Most people got the message now that is inappropriate.

    [ Parent ]

    Change? (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Athena on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:19:23 PM EST
    Well, he represents "change" - resurrecting tired old slams against women - after we've fought hard to silence them.

    [ Parent ]
    It wasn't just the word... (5.00 / 5) (#47)
    by Shainzona on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:27:17 PM EST
    .it was the smary way he threw that phrase off to the reporter.

    I LOVED her response..."this Sweetie never got an answer to her question...."

    And his "apology" was just baloney.  It's just something he does and he has to work on....Dooh!!!

    [ Parent ]

    Is it a Southern thing? (none / 0) (#90)
    by dutchfox on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:02:10 PM EST
    I used to hear "honey" and "sweetie" (and even "baby doll"!) when I lived in Texas.

    [ Parent ]
    Ok, Obama isn't Southern. (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:08:10 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Perhaps he picked up this "habit" (none / 0) (#203)
    by Practically Lactating on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:57:15 PM EST
    in his days as a street urchin in Indonesia.

    Obama says he has a habit of calling women sweetie, yet there is nothing in his background suggesting this term seeped into his consciousness as a result of the culture around him.

    The alternative explanation is an intentional adoption of this habit, that something about this habit appealed to him in some manner so he got into it. That's troubling.

    [ Parent ]

    What's really funny is I think (none / 0) (#211)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:03:01 PM EST
    he said he had a habit of calling "people" sweetie.

    [ Parent ]
    Somehow I doubt it.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, or Dick Durbin... (none / 0) (#227)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:11:48 PM EST
    What a stupid thing to say.

    [ Parent ]
    It is a Southern thing, but mostly to (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:44:51 PM EST
    friends and in casual situations. Not in the office or other workplace. The exception is the small business where everyone is a good friend. And the thing is that it is more women than men who use "Sweetie" or "Hon" when talking to people. I use it, but mostly with children. I figure "talking down" to someone who is shorter than me is ok.. I am 5'1". I do not like being talked down to by grownups. I take instant umbrage and let them know it is not acceptable. Even if it embarrasses them at the time. I just give them an icy look and say, "You don't know me well enough to address me in that fashion." They usually backpedal madly and apologize. I may be short, but I am formidable. Heh.

    [ Parent ]
    We have hon' (none / 0) (#242)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:24:44 PM EST
    here in B'more.

    But Obama's not from the South.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm from the South (5.00 / 1) (#251)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:34:56 PM EST
    and yes, we call people "honey" or "cher" (I grew up in NOLA, and "cher" is Cajun for the French "cherie"). Anywho, these terms of endearment are used ONLY in family/social settings OR by older people (usually grandmotherly types) toward younger people, but never, ever in the workplace among peers. Examples of times you might hear it not in familial or social setting -- if you went to the library, the elderly librarian might refer to you as cher when you checked out your books as in "Did you find what you were looking for cher?" or at the grocery store, the clerk might say, "Have a nice day, honey." There is a huge difference, imo.

    [ Parent ]
    I'd agree... (none / 0) (#256)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:43:07 PM EST
    I've been called hon...but only by other women. Can't say any guy has ever called me hon in a professional setting.

    I got sweetie'd a couple times by one of the much older men in one office...a WWII vet. That was years ago...and he was quite stuck in his ways and counting the days to retirement.

    [ Parent ]

    He needs to see (5.00 / 4) (#83)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:58:00 PM EST
    the movie 9 to 5.  Several times.

    Actually, I could line up a whole list of what the guys call "chick flicks" -- and documentaries on women's history -- that would educate him well.

    [ Parent ]

    And Tootsie (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:03:10 PM EST
    GAH -- I can't believe there are people (and by that, I mean young boys) in this day and age defending the use of "sweetie" in a professional setting. Obama really is talking us backwards here.

    [ Parent ]
    It TX (none / 0) (#177)
    by Leisa on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:44:16 PM EST
    if you call a gal a "sweetheart", especially  a "real sweetheart", you are insulting her...  it is worse than being called a B#@%!... it is probably the most condescending, veiled, cut down of all toward an outspoken woman.

    [ Parent ]
    Gal? (none / 0) (#226)
    by Spike on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:10:09 PM EST
    Is that term PC? No one I know would call a woman a "gal."

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#233)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:14:22 PM EST
    You have some funny ideas about language, you do.  I remember when you tried to suggest there was something offensive about using the abbreviation "AA" for African-American.

    [ Parent ]
    Cultural Differences (none / 0) (#264)
    by Spike on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:59:02 PM EST
    People in different places use different words. Where I grew up, you didn't refer to women as "gals;" it was considered demeaning. The way some people on this site refer to black folk as AAs also strikes me as odd, like a reference to an exotic species, not the neighbors across the street.

    [ Parent ]
    Sweetie... (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by Cal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:26:19 PM EST
    ...is never appropriate to use in professional settings. If anyone who worked for me ever said it and I found out about it, they'd have been fired.  But then again, I didn't hire neanderthals.

    [ Parent ]
    For women too? (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:28:40 PM EST
    Just curious. I always thought it was the intent not the words. Depends on how it is said, which is always subjective, so better not to use terms of endearment at all I guess.

    [ Parent ]
    Casual versus professional. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:34:49 PM EST
    If you want to be seen as professional and respectful, then always use respectful terms of address.

    In casual use, I'd say it's up to everyone to use their judgment.  Some people may take offense, and then it's up to the speaker to remedy the situation.

    Respect and responsibility - that's what it's all about.

    [ Parent ]

    endearment (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by tek on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:39:36 PM EST
    If it is viewed as a term of endearment, it should be used in regard to private, personal relationships.  Other languages solve this problem by having familiar forms of pronouns.

    [ Parent ]
    BTW, I thinks Obama's use of sweetie (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:45:27 PM EST
    is completely inapprorpriate (just a little disclaimer)

    [ Parent ]
    "forced intimacy" (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:49:00 PM EST
    It takes two people who should be using a respectful form of address as non-intimates are forced into a false intimacy.  It's a constant source of stress for people in hospitality positions, they need to be open and accessible but not overly familiar.

    (OT - My sister's SO is Japanese born, but has been stateside forever.  At times he really yearns for the strict Japanese social customs that enforce respect and then he'll swing back to thinking those customs are too rigid and stifling.  He lives in oh-so-casual America, and somewhat amusingly West Virginia.  You'd need to understand hill folks and their ways to get the joke.)

    [ Parent ]

    It's more offensive than that (5.00 / 3) (#224)
    by rise hillary rise on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:09:38 PM EST
    Under the circumstances, BO calling a woman "sweetie"  is known as "putting her in her place." Arrogant, condescending, hmmmm...."elitist" maybe?

    Personally I thought the "I call everyone that" was a big bunch of BS. Wonder how that went over with Michelle.

    A corollary for those who don't get it, calling a grown woman "Sweetie" with whom you have no personal or professional relationship is much like calling an adult black male "b*y"--it's done for one reason and one reason only-making sure that the persona knows her (his) place-and stays in it.

    [ Parent ]

    We're not talking pronouns. (none / 0) (#17)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:43:02 PM EST
    Nouns.

    Nouns are a bit more descriptive, wouldn't you say?

    [ Parent ]

    I used to call my close female business (none / 0) (#52)
    by Shainzona on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:29:27 PM EST
    associates "sweethear" and sometimes "sweetie" - but I'm a women and they knew I meant it.

    I would have never gotten anywhere without the work and committment of my secretary and associates.  And I truly loved them for it.

    Still do!

    [ Parent ]

    As a man and the father of a woman (5.00 / 4) (#65)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:40:55 PM EST
    I fail to see why he would have to use a term of endearment towards a person doing their job.  Or are we sugesting there is some personal relation or familiar relationship with this reporter.  Is she a niece, a cousin an old friend??

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 11) (#68)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:44:35 PM EST
    We can be confident he hadn't met her before.  She's from Michigan!

    [ Parent ]
    Well under the roolz of employement and (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:52:04 PM EST
    proper public behaviour the comment would border on harrasment.

    [ Parent ]
    Okay, funniest line of the night (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:00:27 PM EST
    goes to Steve M.

    So far. :-)

    [ Parent ]

    OMG - So funny!!!!! (none / 0) (#96)
    by Shainzona on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:03:43 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yeh, he got called out on "cutie," too (5.00 / 1) (#220)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:08:23 PM EST
    but must have a looooong learning curve.  This from last fall, as I recall?

    Obama: Sweetie to a Reporter But Also Cutie to Barbara Boxer?

    Obama called Barbara Boxer a "cutie".

    "Obama, speaking at the Westin St. Francis in San Francisco, raised eyebrows Monday at a fundraiser for Sen. Barbara Boxer when, as we reported, the Illinois Senator described his Democratic colleague from California as "a fighter, a leader, a charmer, a cutie.

    The remark "set off a lot of murmuring," said one Democratic strategist in attendance, "among a lot of very strong powerful women around Boxer there who were offended."

    The descriptive of a powerful feminist senator raised "a strategic question: is (Obama) ready for prime time? You don't call a U.S. senator a 'cutie,'" said the strategist, whose take was echoed by others. . . ."



    [ Parent ]
    He really is indefensible (none / 0) (#252)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:36:12 PM EST
    I'm flabbergasted.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes. (none / 0) (#78)
    by Cal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:55:40 PM EST
    Fine to use in non-professional situations.  Professional is a whole 'nother matter.  Terms of endearment used in the workplace can lead to a whole big mess of misunderstanding.  Best to leave them at home.

    [ Parent ]
    Absolutely not permissable in professional setting (5.00 / 1) (#262)
    by Ellie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:56:52 PM EST
    I've read several posters here using the personal gauge of whether it bothers them, mostly guys who don't mind the occasional stroke.

    But in a workplace shared by a lot of different personalities, it's not really one individual's call to make.

    We can't know everyone's tolerance level for such a term, even people we see regularly in familiar but non-casual environments.

    I give a lot of latitude to elders. From others, the unentitled expectation of ego-strokes adds an necessary chore in an already hectic schedule.

    I don't want my support staff calling co-workers or incoming clients "Sweetie" under any circumstances. I don't want them to think they have to tolerate that or worry they'll be pegged as "difficult".

    Uninvited diminutives and familiarity add to workplace stress. Striving NOT to using such a term is a tiny adjustment and is probably easy for many of us who like our terms of endearment to mean something.

    A fellow worker might not know whether it's a come-on. A GL person could be out privately but not at work and it's one of the dozens of times s/he has to have the moment of discomfort in a day. Someone might be going through relationship stress at home or entering a new one and feel awkward about announcing such things. You just never know.

    Even if someone in a position of authority or power (say, a new potentially huge client) says to me or support staff, "Call me Sweetie, everyone does!" I'd step in and set boundaries.

    [ Parent ]

    Your are better than me. (5.00 / 0) (#10)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:29:58 PM EST
    I really don't want to know how many people think that dismissive terms of address are perfectly okay.

    It helps me to believe that I am surrounded by wonderful, generous, respectful people no matter where I go.  It helps me to love my neighbors when I think they are teh best!

    BTW - my no more lies IMPEACH highly visible bumper sign has only gotten one flip of the bird and everything from honks and cheers to heartfelt hugs.  America is still good, at least in my reddish portion of Ohio.

    When it comes to the jerks in the world, I figure that they just can't help themselves and I can't help them.  I figure that if they are a jerks to me, they are jerks to everyone.  That way it's not personal.

    [ Parent ]

    BUSH LIES on my car. Mostly people look (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by leis on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:42:10 PM EST
    to see who is driving the car, but nothing too bad.  Ohio here too!

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:33:25 PM EST
    Maybe if your professional setting is a truck stop.

    [ Parent ]
    My wife came up with the perfect bumper sticker (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by Marvin42 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:29:05 PM EST
    Now I'm Pissed, Sweetie

    [ Parent ]
    Chancellor Sweetie (none / 0) (#212)
    by LeftyFan on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:04:03 PM EST
    Would Obama refer to Angela Merkel, the Chancellor of Germany, as sweetie?

    [ Parent ]
    Very nice job, BTD. (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:20:39 PM EST
    I'm listening to the call now.

    She's just a better candidate than Barack. He and Michelle have the potential to be a great team in the future.

    But they have a lot to learn.

    We all have learned a lot in this campaign.

    Go Hillary!!!

    Is Hillary's townhall (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by zfran on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:26:03 PM EST
    tonight in Oregon available to see at KGW.com?

    BTD, (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:26:36 PM EST
    I enjoyed hearing your voice and your comments. Now I just need to see what you look like. Has HRC done this before, because I thought it was a good way to get her message out first hand ina friendly manner.

    I am surprised the "sweetie" comment (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by kenosharick on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:30:09 PM EST
    was not bigger news in the MSM. I should not be;they have covered up for him and worshipped the ground he walks on since Iowa. I also cannot get over how the party leadership is knowingly throwing this election away. If they care so little- they certainly do not need my vote or money anymore; I tell them that every chance I get.

    What if the media... (none / 0) (#31)
    by AX10 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:04:30 PM EST
    stays with Obama the same way they stayed with Bush?
    I am very concerned that Obama will be a Democratic Bush.  Obama could be bad for the country.  McCain is not as bad as Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    Let me tell you (none / 0) (#50)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:28:57 PM EST
    Bush's threshold will never be crossed again. I'm am supporting HRC, but there is no way anyone including Obama will come close to Bush's incompetence.

    [ Parent ]
    Ohhhhh. I'm not so sure. (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by Shainzona on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:34:14 PM EST
    Obama's list of chief advisers scares me to death.  And since he has no personal knowledge about "his" own policies, I know who will be pulling the strings to this puppet.

    I mean...Jim Cooper?????

    [ Parent ]

    Look, I'm not happy about Obama as president (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:40:56 PM EST
    but I am telling you Bush is the worst hands down. It will probably take at least several generations to match his stupid, really stupid policies, gaffes, indifference, criminal activities, etc. The last one to come close was Nixon and even he wasn't as bad as Bush. Period! That said, Hillary could be one of the best, and as far as I'm concerned Obama is sloppy seconds.

    [ Parent ]
    My question has been and will continue to be (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:48:50 PM EST
    is Obama capable of reversing the damage done by the Bush administration?  I know Bill Clinton in 93-01 reversed the 12 years of damage of the previous administrations.  But this man has not shown me the capacity to stick to a task to its fullfilment yet.  He wavers and vacilates taking no firm position.  Worrisome, the only reason I will probably will vote for him if he is the nominee is because McBush has always scared me.

    [ Parent ]
    I'll admit (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:56:37 PM EST
    I've seen some troubling similarites like needing to take vacation, acting like he fraternizing when he's campaigning, gaffes, etc. His good old boy attitude, etc. These are all added reasons to why I support Hillary (besides the fact that she is ready and he has a long learning curve ahead of him). Can he reverse Bush's mess? Who knows if anyone can undo the damage that man has done in only 8 years. But anybody will be better and I pray to God there is a half of country left for the next gal/guy to try to salvage.

    [ Parent ]
    Lil...Unfortuately There Are Many Similarities (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:09:23 PM EST
    between gwb and bho...startingly so...lack of experience, lying, no foreign policy, shady relationships, gaffes (57 States), etc.

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/14/obamas-embarrassing-gaffes-continue/

    [ Parent ]

    Lil, Unfortunately gwb and bho Share Many Of (5.00 / 1) (#230)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:12:48 PM EST
    the same characteristics, such us telling untruths, gaffes, no foreign policy, etc.  Here are some of bho's greatest gaffes:

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/14/obamas-embarrassing-gaffes-continue/

    [ Parent ]

    endorsing McCain over Obama? (none / 0) (#106)
    by seesdifferent on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:05:36 PM EST
    you realize this is "Talk LEFT?"

    [ Parent ]
    yay! open thread (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:40:43 PM EST
    someone posted in here that Obama hired 400 bloggers to, i guess for the lack of a better term, infiltrate sites like this one, to bring us all to the light.

    is this true?  not really wanting to google anything obama as not to feed into the egomania.

    Sounds like a waste of money (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:53:21 PM EST
    I mean, we already get endless repetition of the same talking points from the genuine commentors.  Why buy the cow when you can have the mulch for free?

    [ Parent ]
    I got an email from "Ben" (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:53:52 PM EST
    Claiming that I said something offensive here at TalkLeft -- but he didn't quote it in context or link to it, so I don't know exactly what he's talking about.

    Anyway, he got my email address from my profile here (now removed) and used that phrase to launch into what was obviously a "set piece" of the sort that's been showing up all over in the last day or two.

    So, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there wasn't a blogger team of some size.

    I was pretty creeped out by it.

    [ Parent ]

    Hmmm. (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:55:38 PM EST
    I have a good spam filter and my email is allowed senders only.

    The odds are good if I got anything, I'd trash it unread.

    [ Parent ]

    BTW if you get another... (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:00:26 PM EST
    You can delete the content but save the header in case someone wants to look at it.  There's a wealth of information in the routing, if you know what you are looking for.

    Saw a couple near identical spams at one site - link anyone?  Basically "Wouldn't Obama drop out for Hillary if their positions were reversed?".

    yea-uh, right.  Pull the other one, it has bells on.

    [ Parent ]

    Gotcha Fabian (none / 0) (#30)
    by lookoverthere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:04:29 PM EST
    riverdaughter's The Confluence.

    It's kinda hilarious. We're trying to figure out the right nickname for new Rent-A-Trolls. "Sweetie" appears to be winning according to Teh Math.

    [ Parent ]

    It's the obvious pick. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:15:54 PM EST
    You could always alternate "Sugah" "Hon" or "Honey" and "Darrrrrling".

    [ Parent ]
    Ben (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:04:44 PM EST
    is making the rounds.  I have seen his name and his message being spewn about on riverdaughter's webpage.  her threaders are going him BIG TIME.

    WTF?  If Obama and Brazile don't care about white, rural voters, Hispanics (that would be me) and womer supporting Hillary, why do they care what WE say or think?

    Oh, forgot, they don't give a sh1t about the senior citizen voting bloc either.  All those young unz listening to the Black Eyed Peas are going to carry him to the White House.

    [ Parent ]

    gays and asians too. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:31:48 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Ben (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Jeralyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:33:13 PM EST
    Katie, do you have Ben's email or IP address? I'd like to see if he's registered on TalkLeft. If you do, don't out him here but email it to me. Or you could forward me the email he sent you.

    [ Parent ]
    I'll forward it to you (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:38:32 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Wasn't there a famous movie rat (none / 0) (#95)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:03:20 PM EST
    named Ben?  Just a thought as to how to deal with him.  Google up some lines from the film. . . .

    [ Parent ]
    Was he the kid w/the rats (none / 0) (#104)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:05:27 PM EST
    and then the rats ate him?

    [ Parent ]
    Willard was the kid (none / 0) (#152)
    by janarchy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:27:25 PM EST
    Ben was the head rat. Michael Jackson even recorded a song about him for the film. It was creepy.

    [ Parent ]
    as i recall some bloggers over kos (none / 0) (#86)
    by hellothere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:00:12 PM EST
    were trying to get email addresses and personal info to try and intimidate. not nice people!

    [ Parent ]
    Really? (none / 0) (#123)
    by andgarden on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:13:24 PM EST
    That's way out of character. At least, it used to be.

    Dkos is a serious disappointment now.

    [ Parent ]

    I read that repsonse.. (none / 0) (#173)
    by AX10 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:41:25 PM EST
    on another blog.  "Ben" was very patronizing to say the least.  It only made me more opposed to Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    Paid bloggers aren't new (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:02:41 PM EST
    they are probably just ramping up.  Either their training is lacking or they want McCain to win....  A new one arrived today... Only managed to reach four code levels on the pocket guide.

    Obama will be the nominee whether you vote for him or not. and  I've made a couple of millions from stock options.  Unless McCain decides to start the draft for middle aged millionaires, I think I'm safe.  Code Yellow (over confidence).

    The thing is with Obama supporters, we don't mind losing this election as much.  For example, I'd actually make money if McCain was elected.  I'm one of those latte sipping liberals who should be voting Republican anyway.  Code Green (tantrum).

    (as you know Hillary is vindictive)  and You don't want to be Black in any region where she has authority.  Hillary is very much on record as being one who holds grudges.  
    Code Red (attack).

    It's mostly Hillary supporters who care about Roe v Wade.  Code Orange (threat).

    But was creative enough to say the party should 'dump' the Reagan Dems.

    added in a couple of attacks on commenters here....And I know for YOU, race plays no role, but you have to admit that voting the way you described at least looks bad.

    and topped it off with....  How is my post violating site rules?  I'm speaking to the absurdity of the previous poster.  Oh I get, I'm not kissing Hillary's butt.

    He's a little warped... here's a special piece.


    [ Parent ]

    "How wonderful for you!" (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:13:50 PM EST
    "You must be SO proud!"

    This is what a female friend taught me that she says when she knows someone is excited about something that she unfortunately isn't.  Rather than try to come up with a relevant social lie to cover her true feelings, she just uses those two phrases.  The responses are polite, positive and most importantly, can cut off further discussion of the topic.

    So remember, be positive, be sincere - but don't actually discuss any of the topics brought up.  
    Turn.
    The.
    Page.

    [ Parent ]

    And, as the Southerners on this site (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:05:09 PM EST
    taught me:  Why, bless your heart. :-)

    (I have gotten through a stressful week at work by just thinking that in some meetings.)

    [ Parent ]

    Why bless your heart, sweetie ;) (5.00 / 1) (#208)
    by nycstray on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:01:27 PM EST
    might as well take it to the next level, eh? lol!~

    [ Parent ]
    You Northerners are funny (5.00 / 4) (#261)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:52:11 PM EST
    with your adoption of the "well bless your heart" -- it tickles me to no end! And, I have to tell you nycstray, you are really using it the right way here -- saying "well bless your heart" followed by something slightly (or not so slightly) negative -- like "Well bless your heart, it is so hard to lose that baby weight." (translation -- you are fat) Or "Well bless your heart, but you can't be falling for that old line." (translation -- you are a moron for believing it). It is a uniquely southern art to say something really negative about a person by making it sound like your almost paying them a compliment. As we say in the south, we'd rather walk on our own tongue before we said something negative about a person, BUT, bless his heart, Obama sure can say some idiotic things about women.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes it is (none / 0) (#20)
    by AX10 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:52:02 PM EST
    Someone posted a link (none / 0) (#24)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:54:16 PM EST
    in another diary.  I'm sure someone knows it.

    I'm thinking that the only use they would be is to drive the Obama strays back into the herd.  I don't see any Clinton supporters suddenly seeing the light and coming to Obama.

    Maybe if they offered to wash my windows and the walls need a new coat of paint and I need some serious yard work done too.  Plus my "sweetie" and I haven't had a night off from the kids for months.

    Why pay people to blog when there are so much more they can do!

    [ Parent ]

    Just say no to egomania. Also say no to paranoia. (none / 0) (#108)
    by jerry on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:05:59 PM EST
    Last night I was accused of:

    a) being a paid Obama blogger
    b) being a TL noob

    Let's not get paranoid folks.  We all know the paid Obama blogger is (throws a 20 sided dice) Oculus.

    [ Parent ]

    that sort of thing is taken quite seriously (none / 0) (#120)
    by seesdifferent on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:10:58 PM EST
    and it is certainly false. Obama is not paying bloggers. Repeating this rumor is beneath reasonable folks.

    [ Parent ]
    ding ding ding! (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:16:39 PM EST
    we gotta winner!!!  how much are you paid sweetie dahling?  (big Absolutely Fabulous fan here)

    [ Parent ]
    You know the only way I could feel (none / 0) (#232)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:13:52 PM EST
    comfortable stating something like;  
    Obama is not paying bloggers.
      is if I was working for the campaign.  Otherwise I couldn't be sure of what Obama was or was not doing.

    [ Parent ]
    I just listen to the call and want to thank (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by bridget on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:53:40 PM EST
    Jeralyn and BTD. My thanks also go to CHDmom. She mentioned that Taylor Marsh had it on her site in an earlier thread here and I went over there right away. Listened to it together with my fav. human and feline ;-)

    What a great call that was!
    Hillary was absolutely amazing. The personal way she related to all the bloggers who asked qs - and how confident, detailed and thoughtful she was in her responses. This does not come as a surprise to me at all since I have admired her since 92.

    I also enjoyed putting a voice to the names that I have seen so often on the blogs.

    I missed Jeralyn but Armando was fabulous and sounds great. Everybody did really well with the comments and questions. Thanks alegre, Lance, katiebird, lambert ... and Hillary couldn't have a nicer guy than Peter Daou working for her.

    And thanks to Taylor Marsh for posting it (5.00 / 7) (#26)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:57:38 PM EST
    I was so rattled by the experience I didn't have a clear memory of it.

    Getting the chance to listen again with my family was wonderful.  It was a huge relief that interrupting Senator Clinton was a false memory.  I stewed about that all the way home.

    [ Parent ]

    You just had a fangirl moment. (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:06:14 PM EST
    I always figure that if I get to meet someone I really admire, I'll just memorize three sentences:

    I'm really glad to meet you!
    I really admire you for "X".
    Thank you!

    so I don't do anything to embarrass myself.  

    [ Parent ]

    Wow. I think I'll have (4.75 / 4) (#46)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:27:09 PM EST
    that tattooed on the back of my hand.  That's great!

    [ Parent ]
    I thought you were great; I was envious. (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:33:52 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    You did really well, katiebird (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by bridget on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:26:17 PM EST
    I can well imagine that you stewed about that later on. I would have done exactly the same.

    I also wanted to let you know that I am off to find the Chelsea video. I doubt I have seen that one. She speaks so well. Just like a Clinton ;-)

    Both Hillary and Bill must be so proud to see her campaign so well for her mother.

    [ Parent ]

    Here it is (5.00 / 4) (#51)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:29:23 PM EST
    I'm posting the blog link because one of the commenters was actually in the audience and she shared the experience.

    [ Parent ]
    You did a great job! (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:27:21 PM EST
    The only reason I knew you were nervous was because you said you were.  :)

    [ Parent ]
    It's funny how memory works (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:32:05 PM EST
    isn't it?  Because I didn't remember it clearly at all.

    I guess I wouldn't make a good witness.

    I wonder if I would have let my family hear it if I hadn't gotten so many very kind and generous complements from my blogging friends.

    Thank you very much!

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary was great (none / 0) (#70)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:47:24 PM EST
    but I did hear the phone noise.

    You just can't help it.  The adrenalin hits the veins, the body reacts and you just deal as best as you can.  Don't worry.  It's not a reflection on you.

    It's why I'm in awe of anyone who can deal with public speaking well and gracefully, because I'd be a mess.

    [ Parent ]

    I thought you did great (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by Jeralyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:34:28 PM EST
    Everyone did, BTD too.

    [ Parent ]
    I remember meeting an earlier candidate (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:09:47 PM EST
    for president, Pat Schroeder -- a real hero to working women and mothers, for those who may not recall her.  And Clinton has spoken of her as a pathbreaker for her, too, because this mother of young children who got to Congress and gave the guys giggles at the thought went on to be a force for the Armed Forces.

    When I met her, and even in my forties, I turned into a total fangirl. I got choked up.  She handled it fine, which was good, because I sure didn't! :-)


    [ Parent ]

    I met Pat (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by samanthasmom on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:23:56 PM EST
    when she was considering a run for the Presidency.  I was always sorry that she didn't really pursue it. I think she would have been a great President.

    [ Parent ]
    Pat was my congresswoman. (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by echinopsia on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:28:38 PM EST
    I went to one of her LEGENDARY Halloween parties when she was still in ofice. What a great woman! And yet so down-to-earth I wasn't toungue-tied at all when I met her.

    Did you know she was the one who came up with "Teflon" to describe Reagan?

    She's been succeeded by Diana DeGette, another great rep. who endorses Hillary.

    [ Parent ]

    Ahhhh, Pat. (5.00 / 1) (#229)
    by rise hillary rise on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:12:23 PM EST
    the one who said "I have a brain and a uterus-and I use both of them." you GO grrrl.

    [ Parent ]
    in addition to Sweetie (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by urduja on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:01:19 PM EST
    Obama has displayed a troubling pattern of relating to women. The word condescending comes to mind.

    from South Bend, Indiana, April 10, 2008:
    link

       

    "[Obama] posed for report pictures with the staff when he apparently felt his phone start to vibrate in his pocket on his right thigh - against which one woman was closely pressed.

        "Now that's my phone buzzing there," he said, drawing a laugh. "I don't want you to think I'm getting fresh or anything."

    from Scranton, PA, April 2, 2008:

    link


        "Sen. Barack Obama approached first overflow in the parking lot outside of the Scranton town hall, and immediately went to Denise Mercuri, a pharmacist from Dunmore who was wearing a Hillary Clinton button. She held an Obama button in her hand, and he asked what he needed to do to get her to wear his instead of his rival's.

        "What do I need to do? Do you want me on my knees?" he asked.

        He then conceded, keeping with his flirty trend of the day (see earlier report), "I'll give you a kiss."

    Perhaps, on their own, each incident may be excusable but his pattern of behavior certainly does not endear me to him -- if his lack of experience wasn't enough to cast doubt on my vote this fall!

    Just A Wild and Crazy Guy (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Athena on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:50:40 PM EST
    It's all sleazy and openly flirtatious - the Ladies Man approach doesn't work in 2008 - for anyone.  It's totally disqualifying in a Presidential candidate.

    [ Parent ]
    it's a turn off (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by urduja on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:04:54 PM EST
    actually -- speaking on a personal level.

    But, given his past his behavior wrt to LGBT issues (e.g. not taking a picture with SF Mayor, his association w/ McClurkin) and his tepid support of women's issues, it's also a major red flag for me.

    [ Parent ]

    This is laughable... (none / 0) (#164)
    by Alec82 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:35:08 PM EST
    ..."not taking a picture with SF Mayor, his association w/ McClurkin."

     Yes, his "association" with McClurkin.  Like all other "associations" concocted by Camp Clinton to drive him down (Nation of Islam, secretly a muslim, Rezko, Farrakhan, etc).  Not taking a picture with Newsom is a horrid sin, but her failure to push for LGBT legislation during her (this about experience and fighting for us, we are told) EIGHT years in the senate is...?  This is the candidate who defended DOMA as progressive.  Her words, not mine.  

      The Republican governor of California is ahead of both of these candidates on gay rights.  Voters don't believe them when they say they don't support gay marriage anyway.      

     His "tepid" support of women's issues? What evidence is there of that? Your opinion or his policy stances?

     

    [