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Faux News Reporting

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:38:36 PM EST
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I caught the intro to Countdown with Keith Olbermann announcing that Obama's ahead in Indiana and Hillary's lead is gone in PA.

I changed the channel. Is it too much to ask that cable news and talk show hosts like Olbermann at least fairly report the news before they put their spin on it? How could he not mention the multiple dueling polls?

Starting yesterday, Big Tent Democrat and I catalogued every poll (other than daily trackers) in the states yet to vote regardless of results. First the results, then our analysis. We didn't cherry pick and report only those we agree with or that favor one candidate or the other. Examples:

More...

That a cable news network can't do the same -- even on an opinionated news/talk show -- is pathetic.

< 50, No 48, No 47 . . . State Strategy? | Hillary Outlines Agenda for First 100 Days >

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    Faux News Reporting | 125 comments (125 topical)

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    God I hope that HRC wins big in PA (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Prabhata on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:46:50 PM EST
    and all the people who've gotten the garbage polls wake up that they've been living in a bubble.  Maybe a big win for HRC will surprise them and have a bigger impact.

    Cheer up, people (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by kmblue on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:19:51 PM EST
    The media isthe elite!
    As Somerby says, they all make big fat saleries, they have contempt for us rubes, and they're trying to tell us dummies how to vote.
    So shut up and believe as you're told! ;)

    Parent
    Nope... (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Radix on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:27:29 PM EST
    he will flog the non-existent Bradley effect. There will always be a reason why his being wrong wasn't his fault.

    There is no right, There is no wrong, only winning and money.
    Don Henley-The Garden of Allah

    Parent

    Reclassify the Bradley Effect (none / 0) (#104)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:55:40 PM EST
    Democratic alsoran who is backed by MSNBC, mysteriously and unaccountably losing either the primary or general election.

    See McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis and Kerry...not Gore though.  He had a Bradley of his own around his neck.

    Parent

    It's Keith Obamaman (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by GOPmurderedconscience on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:47:07 PM EST
    What do you seriously expect from him?

    That's what his show has become. Sadly.

    I thought I'd give KO a chance tonight--clicked (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by jawbone on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:54:26 PM EST
    off after I saw he was going with the worst take.

    No wonder the MSNBCers have been flabbergasted by quite a few of the actual results.

    Parent

    What do you mean, "become"? (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by daryl herbert on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:12:58 PM EST
    You criticized Keith? The second coming of Edward R. Murrow?  You're the worst person in the world!!!

    That has always been his schtick: over the top, unfair, melodramatic, context doesn't matter, facts don't matter, etc. etc.

    I can't wait to watch KO kiss Sen. Clinton's feet once she wins the nomination.

    Parent

    Even about Bush? (none / 0) (#119)
    by Melchizedek on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:27:47 PM EST
    His Special Comments about torture and executive privilege were unfair and out of context?  Yeah, Bush didn't deserve that at all. You know, once you put everything in context.

    I wish reality would help settle some of the endless Kos/TalkLeft spin, but the sad fact is that Clinton will win PA by 11, allowing each side to explode in "We did better than expected!" And hey, if that doesn't work, it was the media that threw things off a few points because they just have it in for our side. So it goes, po-tee-weet.

    Parent

    I Don't Think They Were Unfair (none / 0) (#125)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:55:59 PM EST
    But I got tired of them after awhile because it started to sound like a guy telling me what I wanted to hear, you know?  


    Parent
    unfair? no (none / 0) (#144)
    by TeresaInPa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 10:27:14 AM EST
    boring meaningless and pandering? yes

    Parent
    A good palce to (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by slr51 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:47:34 PM EST
    get an over view is at pollster.com

    They do a statically weighted average for their trend lines but leave the original data points so you can see where it came from. Their stats take sample size and confidence intervals (error) into account.

    They are often a few days behind, but the strength and lack of bias in their analysis still makes them my first choice.

    Keep it up, Keith! (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by clio on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:50:41 PM EST
    Motivate Senator C.'s to get to the polls!  
    Let Obama's believers become complacent.

    Olbermann (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by lisadawn82 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:52:37 PM EST
    "I caught the intro to Countdown with Keith Olbermann announcing that Obama's ahead in Indiana and Hillary's lead is gone in PA."

    The only good thing is that he's lowering expectations for Hillary so that if she been Barak by more than ten it'll be a blowout.

    I really hate it when I can't spell (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by lisadawn82 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:07:25 PM EST
    That should be that "she beats Barak" not "she been Barak."  Sigh.

    Parent
    Barack (none / 0) (#44)
    by cannondaddy on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:35:22 PM EST


    Parent
    Reporting the news is so passe (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by stillife on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:53:48 PM EST
    KO, Tweety & Co. are trying to create the news.  I can't wait to see their heads explode next Tuesday when Hillary wins big in PA.
    They Create Their Own Reality (none / 0) (#60)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:00:04 PM EST
    Like someone else we know.  Sad.

    Parent
    one correction is in order. (none / 0) (#63)
    by ghost2 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:03:27 PM EST
    Reading the news is so passe.  I bet you that KO, and the likes of him just repeat what is written by producers, which makes KO even more pathetic that he already is.

    Parent
    Abrams is a so utterly two faced (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:24:05 PM EST
    You know he's telling Olberman and Co what to say most of the time.

    Parent
    Wait. (none / 0) (#124)
    by jen on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:47:23 PM EST
    It will be election fraud if she wins big. Count on it. They will be demanding recounts at the Big Orange Place.

    Parent
    Is MSNBC a Cable News Network? (5.00 / 8) (#11)
    by santarita on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:02:07 PM EST
    I stopped watching Keith and Chris and the rest of the pundits when I realized that their news shows were becoming little more than glorified cocktail hour chatter at the local sports bar.  Since when does some opinion writer's opinion about the opinion of some other pundit's opinion on a campaign advisor's tactics constitute news?  They are talking to themselves.  Occasionally a guest makes a cameo appearance to bolster the opinion that everyone shares anyway.  

    Am I missing anything important by not watching?  I don't think so. We're still mired in a military adventure in Iraq, the economy still is awful, climate change is still a peril and the constitution is still under attack.  Let me know when they start talking about the news.

    perfectly put. n/t (none / 0) (#43)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:33:46 PM EST


    Parent
    It is not news (none / 0) (#132)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:56:42 AM EST
    but entertainment for the creative class.

    Parent
    Olbermann and Clinton (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by Missblu on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:02:35 PM EST
    Re: Faux News

    Does anyone ever wonder what happened to Olbermann and for that matter Ed Shultz? At one time they were  each very respectful of Senator Clinton. Both have big egos and I have a feeling that Hillary did not accept invitations to be on their shows and by golly they will fix her truthfully or not.

    Olbermann is po'd still about Shuster, I think... (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:07:39 PM EST
    ...no idea what Schlutz's problem is.

    Parent
    Chris Farley did a better bellyflop... (none / 0) (#31)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:18:56 PM EST
    ...and impression of a pathetic obese divorcee who lives in a trailer by the lake--Shultz lost the audition. So he's embittered about what might have been in his stand up comedy career. So he tried acting like a stupid clueless ass on TV.

    Does he remind you of that Chris Farley character or what?

    Parent

    They have been told (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:12:35 PM EST
    to cut down Clinton quickly.

    Parent
    I heard the DNC paid Ed Shultz to (none / 0) (#133)
    by dotcommodity on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:57:19 AM EST
    per Randi Rodes couple months ago...seemed like inside baseball

    Parent
    It did seem that at some point (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:14:40 PM EST
    a switch was flipped and a lot of the hosts that had been doing a good job at least feigning neutrality all went ballistic on Hillary at once. Olbermann, Shultz, Young Turks, Randi Rhodes, all at the same time, and I couldn't watch or listen to anything anymore.  I think they really just wanted it over so they could have a big party and she was standing in their way.

    Parent
    Don't know about all, but (none / 0) (#70)
    by ghost2 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:08:23 PM EST
    I believe it was Howard Kurtz who said, reporters are pundits are mad that the contest is going on like this, b/c it is interfering with their vacation plan.  I guess they thought, they would make it competitive, bag the ratings and would choose the nominee in February, and go on vacation on the spring, and be back for August.  

    Yeah, why wouldn't she quit? Doesn't she know what she is putting them through.  

    Parent

    That actually makes sense (none / 0) (#137)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:17:53 AM EST
    However, since many of them seem like they are always phoning their performances in, I don't see why they can't go on vacation now.  Their replacements may be better!

    Parent
    Just Because Olbermann Hates Bush (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:01:36 PM EST
    Doesn't make him a progressive.  

    Parent
    So right about Olbermann (none / 0) (#91)
    by stefystef on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:31:58 PM EST
    He's just a shill for Obama now.  I have no respect for him anymore.  I dare say, I have more respect for O'Reilly at this point.  At least O'Reilly is an a-hole, but Olbermann pretends to be Murrow.

    Olbermann is no Mr. Murrow.

    Parent

    I had a fantasy where (none / 0) (#95)
    by bjorn on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:37:26 PM EST
    some really articulate woman makes a special comment slamming Olbermann and mentions that he is no Murrow.  I don't know who the woman would be, but someone really smart and very cool. Is it just me or does he pout when he has to say something that is factual but contradicts his spin?

    Parent
    He does pout. (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:47:15 PM EST
    Olbermann wouldn't care if any woman said to him that he was no Edward R. Murrow. He'd just think she was stupid. It would probably hurt his ego though if George Clooney said that to him.

    Parent
    good point (none / 0) (#101)
    by bjorn on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:49:56 PM EST
    let's make it George Clooney or someone like that!

    Parent
    I've always thought his (none / 0) (#100)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:47:51 PM EST
    comments about Neville Chamberlain were very strange.

    Ah? I see, Neville Chamberlain proves you shouldn't invade Iraq!

    CW rundown:

    An overly pacifistic Neville Chamberlain, albeit from a position of military weakness (always back up your political hegemony with military hegemony kidz!) sold out Czechoslovakia to Hitler.

    Olberman somehow thinks this is comparable to Bush's Attillachurchill on steriods and cocaine impression.

    I've never quite gotten what he's attempting to prove with that nonsense.

    Parent

    Audience (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:15:59 PM EST
    Both of these guys went where there's an audience.  Young Obama worshipers are the prime audience that advertisers, and thus TV/Radio, want to reach more than anything.

    I'm guessing it was largely a business decision.  Certainly was on Olbermann's part.  He discovered how much the Dkos boys adored him, so decided to pander hard to their prejudices.  It's almost certainly worked, too.  Advertisers are almost totally uninterested in people over 50, who are largely the ones turning KO and Shultz off out of disgust.


    Parent

    Schultz's problem with Clinton (none / 0) (#113)
    by delandjim on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:16:18 PM EST
    She did turn him down at least once maybe more back in the January time frame. He does come across as a raving maniac doesn't he. Olberman I have no idea what his problem is.

    Parent
    I want to say I am shocked (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:04:23 PM EST
    But really I am not. I am not even surprised. Honestly I don't even care. Any idea of quality news, honest reporting, stuff I grew up with is gone. 2000 was kind of bad. 2004 was getting silly. And this year its a complete joke.

    I don't know most of you, but the last news organization I respected was ABC under Peter Jennings. They were my last example of a hold out news organization.

    It used to be Fox that was the joke. Now everyone is.

    Remember the conventions with (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by FlaDemFem on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:23:45 PM EST
    Huntley and Brinkley and Walter Kronkite? Ah, those were the days of real journalism, not the tabloid-style crap that passes for reporting now. I miss Uncle Walter. I really do. Sigh...

    Parent
    I wish (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:28:37 PM EST
    I had been around in those days to see the real journalists. I saw the tail end of Cronkite and I am still impressed. I am jealous of people who lived in the days when that was the standard.

    Parent
    The great thing about them is that they (5.00 / 5) (#56)
    by FlaDemFem on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:56:15 PM EST
    didn't indulge in innuendo and fake outrage. They just reported the facts. And during the conventions, they would explain how the process worked, including the fact that the "pledged" delegates aren't pledged after the first ballot. My favorite part of the first ballot used to be when the states would nominate their "favorite son" for President. Usually it was a governor, or other prominent politico in the state. It was mostly a way of complimenting someone who had served long and well. These were always interesting to watch because many of them were considered to be viable VP candidates. It was a great education in the political process. And they did it again on Election Night, explaining the Electoral College and counting the electoral votes as the states reported winners. It took all night, and it was exciting and fun to watch. People used to have convention parties, get together to watch the conventions. Same for the election. And the election parties were not split up by party then, neighbors could agree to disagree politically without being rude. Ah, the good old days..

    Parent
    I lived then and I'm jealous too because (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by derridog on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:27:21 PM EST
    I don't live in that world anymore.  The trash talking on TV today would have shocked everyone out of their chairs in the 50s and 60s.  News was taken seriously.  My dad worked for CBS. It prided itself on the quality of its news.

    It's really sad now. Actually, it's beyond sad. It's like some fundamental thing changed and the entire quality of our discourse has been degraded to the level of drunks arguing in a bar.

    Parent

    It wasn't as exciting as all that (none / 0) (#92)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:33:59 PM EST
    and they were only on for a few minutes a day.  The convention coverage, I gotta say, back when there were real conventions that actually decided things, was great.  Of course, we had no way to know what they weren't telling us then.


    Parent
    Could a citizen sue (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by MichaelGale on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:07:50 PM EST
    the networks for propaganda and using the public airways for political endorsement?

    I'm making a list of the perps. (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:14:53 PM EST
    If Obama loses to McCain i'll publish it--and outline their role in picking the wrong candidate for us.

    Also i'll be screaming "No no no. Goddamn Iowa!"

    Parent

    And can a citizen sue cable (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by MichaelGale on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:08:47 PM EST
    or the corporation who owns it?

    I didn't see it... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by white n az on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:11:36 PM EST
    and I don't watch Olbermann or MSNBC any more.

    But if that's how much he values his own credibility, who is going to watch him or believe anything that he says when they discover this fact?

    I stopped watching MSNBC, too, (none / 0) (#111)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:09:38 PM EST
    but it's safe to come back to Morning Joe.  While Mika is still obviously receiving checks from the Obama camp, Joe is definitely pro-Hillary.  Pat Buchanan also has a new appreciation for her.  

    I still have to mute the TV when nasal over-enunciator David Shuster (who clearly still harbors quite a bit of resentment since his suspension) and Chris Matthews are on, but Joe & Pat are entertaining enough to make it all worthwile.  

    Parent

    oh no... (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by white n az on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:38:40 PM EST
    Scarborough will make sense about 70% of the time but he inevitably pivots and jumps onto the Republican express and it would not be sane to expect him to do any else.

    Mika earned respect at CBS but each time I have watched her on Morning Joe, she was too deferential to Scarborough and seeks his approval before she expresses an opinion. It's painful to watch because she's not stupid.

    It's the format that I find objectionable...it's still the Imus type format, with Scarborough's sometimes clever wit and ever predictable politics, with a sexist repartee with Jackie Meretsky and Erin Burnett and it's the same, day after day. The only repartee that's worse on news/tainment is Anderson Cooper and Erica Hill...half the time I want to barf.

    Parent

    Still (none / 0) (#134)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:58:53 AM EST
    70% of the time is better than KO's 0%.

    Parent
    I'm still waiting... (5.00 / 6) (#24)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:14:39 PM EST
    ...for KO's retraction of his hyperventilation blaming Hillary for "passportgate" and an acknowledgment that the passport records were accessed by an Obama supporter.

    You know something is amiss (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Coldblue on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:18:32 PM EST
    when the real Faux News is more tolerable than MSNBC.

    Even then... (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:23:03 PM EST
    ...that's mirage. they only look equally unfair oto both candidates.

    Ironically Hannity would have done us all a favour if he could have gotten the Wright tapes on ABC before Iowa.

    It would have been a better test case for Obama's general election viability if those tapes had been looped on teh networks in December.  A time when it might have allowed voters to evaluate Obama a bit more coldbloodedly.

    Parent

    Honestly, (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by AnnC on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:25:34 PM EST
    I agree - when the voice of reason on MSNBC becomes Joe Scarborough, something is definitely wrong!

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:41:21 PM EST
    When my favorite talking head became Pat Buchanan I knew I had entered the twilight zone!

    Parent
    not to mention... (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:17:21 PM EST
    more accurate and more unbiased.  it's like we're living in a parallel universe or something.  very disheartening.

    i foolishly checked huffpo before i came here tonight.  the picture on the home page was hillary morphed with mccain.  she looked like a monster.  i don't know why i'm surprised that the huffpo stooped this low, but i am.  

    there's an excellent article at salon.com that perfectly articulates what i think so many of us are feeling.  i'm still a little shaky on the rules about posting articles on this board, so go to salon.com and search: hey, obama boys.  i almost cried when i read it because it was as though the author knew me.  

    Parent

    Meanwhile, Mayor Nutter is doing great on (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Teresa on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:21:33 PM EST
    Larry King.

    (Think this is OnT) Do not miss Somerby on how (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by jawbone on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:28:59 PM EST
    the non-rightwing columnists are messing up on the Obama rubes quotes.

    As usual, they simply don't get it--but do see a way to diss Hillary (thankew, Mr. Robinson).

    Read and weep.

    MSNBC has been doing this for eons (5.00 / 5) (#39)
    by gish720 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:30:11 PM EST
    They did it with California, NJ, MA and now PA and IN...it's par for the course.  They're a joke, their panels consist of 2 Obama supporters (like Robinson or Maddow) across from a couple of Republicans. Joke.

    Same with CNN except their employees (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Teresa on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:32:26 PM EST
    are slightly less obvious about it. I think Anderson Cooper held out pretty good but he's gone in the tank lately.

    Parent
    Speaking of Faux News (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by stillife on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:30:37 PM EST
    I'm watching Hannity & Colmes, Goddess help me!  They're discussing the polls right now.  They don't mention SUSA, but they are discussing Rasmussen and Quinnipiac in addition to the LA Times/Bloomberg poll.

    It's a sad day when a supposed progressive like KO is more biased in his coverage than the dreaded Faux News.

    sad day (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by miguelito on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:51:21 PM EST
    this is a permanent change, and he has revealed himself not to be a progressive at all.  I give Fox more respect than these bums at MSNBC, at least everyone knows their agenda  

    Parent
    I know what u mean! (none / 0) (#135)
    by Fredster on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:15:13 AM EST
    And to think that I used to refer to those two as Insanity and Comb-over.  


    Parent
    I sent Chuck Todd (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by bjorn on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:54:33 PM EST
    an email.  I know it is dumb. But sometimes he fights the media narrative at MSNBC.  But First Read also only reported the LA Times poll.  I also flipped to Fox and they were covering the polls in a  fairly objective way. Cries....

    I tuned in KO for the start of (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by kenosharick on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:56:29 PM EST
    his show and was shocked to learn that Obama was "SURGING" in Indiana. Is Olberman TOTALLY off his rocker now? He is making up TOTAL lies- yesterday he claimed Hillarywas nearly booed of the stage in Penn. He lies like a republican now.

    Obama is always surging (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by stillife on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:04:06 PM EST
    according to MSNBC.  If it were true, he would have 100% of the Dem vote by now.  It reminds me of my mom, who says every time I see her, "Honey, did you lose weight?"  If that were true, I would weigh 80 lbs.!

    Parent
    he surge so fast he went right round (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by Salo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:29:20 PM EST
    through 100% to Zero-- and then came back up again to 40%

    Parent
    The other Faux News (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:00:01 PM EST
    I'm watching my TiVo'd Colbert Report from last night, and Chris Matthews is strongly hinting he'd like to run for Arlen Spector's Senate seat in 2010. Says he's always wanted to be a senator.

    I guess I have no words...hard to fathom such a spectacle.

    Now that would be a Hobson's Choice (none / 0) (#127)
    by litigatormom on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:14:40 PM EST
    Tweety "Why Do People Think I'm Sexist" Matthews vs. Arlen "Bend Over" Specter.

    Tweety told Colbert last night that "some kids dream of becoming firemen, I always wanted to be a senator." Tweety may be closer today to his dream of being a Senator than he was yesterday.  Arlen Specter announced today that his cancer has come back.  I think he has a form of lymphoma, so at his age that is not good. Although I have no respect for him as a Senator (he's a champion of the Constitution until Bush threatens a veto, and then he writes legislation to ratify what Bush wants to do), I'm sorry to hear that he's ill again.  And the thought of Senator Tweety makes me feel like the person in Edvard Munch's "The Scream."

    Parent

    Specter lost me in the Anita Hill hearings (none / 0) (#140)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:58:18 AM EST
    a long time ago now, I guess, but memories still are raw for many of us.  But I respect some of what he has done, and I am sorry he is suffering.  Still, I can't look at him or a lot of others involved in that debacle without bringing it all back to mind -- and the backlash it meant for me in my life.  

    Interesting to read yesterday of backlash again from the Clinton campaign felt by women in workplaces.  We have to be ready to defend them in coming months as much as Clinton and her daughter.

    Parent

    All of you HRC supporters (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by 1jpb on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:04:17 PM EST
    should be thrilled to have polls saying BO is doing better.

    Y'all put up with my contrarian  views (pro-BO) here, so I'll return the favor.  The best thing for HRC is to have lowered expectations.  1) she looks better if she exceeds them.  2) we have seen that every time she's counted out she seems to get a boost of support.

    That said, I really don't believe these polls (the demographics just don't work out for BO.)  So, let's have some more polls showing that HRC is running away with this thing because that is closer to reality, and it seems to bring comfort to some of her supporters, which is fine by me.

    The only downside might (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by bjorn on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:06:26 PM EST
    be that some Clinton voters would get discouraged and not turn out.  I hope the opposite is true, that it motivates them to vote, but you never know.  I would rather the press try to put out all the polls and talk about the issues with each one. But I guess that is way too complicated for them!

    Parent
    I Agree (none / 0) (#74)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:11:24 PM EST
    In their attempts to support Obama, the media has hurt him in the expectations game the entire campaign.  

    Parent
    hillary will win (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by IKE on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:24:00 PM EST
    everything MSNBC has done has failed. They will fail again. All they are doing is making Hillary stronger. Keep up the good work MSNBC..

    Expect nothing (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:59:31 PM EST
    and you won't be disappointed.  The media is so in bed with Barack it's not even funny.  Sad thing is, the media is a two-timing mistress.  Once we get into the general election and if BHO is the nominee, he will be DROPPED so fast for the McCain love-fest.  Man it will be hilarious to watch the Obama supporters go into meltdown mode.  As an HRC supporter, I am used to the media and the polls dogging her out.  That just makes her a stronger candidate and her supporters even more die-hard.

    I hope the good people of Pennsylvania follow the lead of their neighbor Ohio and give her a 10-point+ victory.

    There is a book of rules for each new primary... (5.00 / 3) (#112)
    by Oje on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:10:40 PM EST
    1. Cite SUSA polls that have Clinton ahead by 15+ points

    2. Demand Clinton drop out immediately

    3. Declare something (anything) a campaign-ending gaffe or racist slur by Clinton or Clinton surrogates

    4. Backpedal for 1 week while explaining Obama's latest damaging affiliation or foot-in-mouth remark

    5. Blame Clinton for Obama's religious practices and/or "unfortunate and wholly misinterpreted" statements

    6. Cite polls not-called-SUSA that indicate Obama will win handily

    7. Declare in advance that no matter the outcome, Clinton did not have a large enough win

    8. After primary results show a Clinton won handily, rinse mouth and repeat


    lol (none / 0) (#121)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:30:34 PM EST
    and crying at the same time.

    excellent post.

    Parent

    Barack X -- The videos (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Universal on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:35:03 PM EST
    My brother John and I made 2 videos last night discussing "Bittergate" and how it's not going to play well in Pennsylvania. Since we are both spent a lot of time in Pennsylvania in our youths and since I live there right now, we definitely know of what we speak. We also tied-in the Reverend Wright and William Ayers stuff, as well as the words of esteemed African-American Ph.D. Thomas Sowell who discusses the concept of Barack, himself, being a lie.

    We have named Barack "Barack X," in honor of the late Malcolm X and Barack's affinity for him, as well as Barack's numerous radical associations. And to highlight this new name we have included some funny footage of the Saturday Night Live character (played by Chris Rock) "Nat X."

    I should also mention that John is very conservative, so you can get a Republican perspective on Barack Obama and what we'll be up against if Obama is named our nominee and the GOP is facing us down instead of other Dems who don't want to hurt each others' feelings too much.

    The videos are informative and entertaining. I'm on via speakerphone and John handles the hosting/on-camera duties. Check them out and have a laugh. Total running time is about 20 minutes, but it goes fast.

    Instead of linking to them individually I'll just put the link to our site where we have them both posted:

    http://www.villarrealsports.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=383

    Thanks and have a great night.

    Paul F. Villarreal AKA "Universal" AKA "RokSki"

    Comment deleted (none / 0) (#10)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:59:38 PM EST
    with overly long url not in html format. It referred to a MI poll. Michigan is not a state about to vote and is irrelevant to this discussion of polls in upcoming primaries.

    umm.... (none / 0) (#14)
    by TruthMatters on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:03:11 PM EST
    ok but then why did you list florida?

    Parent
    also if you tell me now (none / 0) (#16)
    by TruthMatters on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:07:13 PM EST
    I will HTML format it, but you can't tell me you aren't listing MI because its not about to vote, but you list FL. in a post about places not talking about polls they like, it seems like you aren't talking about a poll you don't like.

    Parent
    an oversight (none / 0) (#21)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:11:32 PM EST
    you can use the link button at the top of your comment box to paste in the url.

    Type Michigan poll. Highlight those words with your mouse, click on the link button and paste in the url.

    Parent

    ok I will try.... (none / 0) (#26)
    by TruthMatters on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:14:42 PM EST
    and it........... Michigan poll

    worked! woot

    Parent

    As a Michiganian. (none / 0) (#131)
    by lansing quaker on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:00:30 AM EST
    I'd like to see the sample on that poll.

    Oversampling Detroit is key.  Most polls oversample Detroit, and it is costly.

    Michigan will be a Republican lock in the GE should Obama be the candidate.  Purely anecdotal, but then again, I've seen the state outside of Gennessee, Ingham, and Wayne counties.


    Parent

    I deleted the Florida poll results (none / 0) (#28)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:15:34 PM EST
    above and added the qualifier in states that have not yet voted to make it clearer.

    Parent
    Jeralyn, I read that Barney Frank was (none / 0) (#13)
    by Teresa on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:03:00 PM EST
    quoted by KO saying that the person behind in delegates on June 3 should quit. Did you see that? Does Barney not understand popular vote or was he misquoted (he's a Clinton supporter)?

    Barney's REAL quote (4.80 / 5) (#29)
    by americanincanada on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:18:24 PM EST
    just said the person behind should drop out by June 3rd. He never qualified it. That was pure Obamaman spin.

    Parent
    Michelle Obama is on Colbert tonight (none / 0) (#37)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:28:55 PM EST
    Maybe OT, but should be interesting. Hillary is going to be on Colbert later this week.

    i hope she (none / 0) (#117)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:22:48 PM EST
    does the show in studio unlike that awkward satellite thing she did with stewart.  that was a bad move by her campaign manager (big surprise).

    Parent
    excellent summary and analysis (none / 0) (#41)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:31:20 PM EST
    thanks very much. A very handy thing to do every once in a while. Tanks a million.

    360 is spending time with Obama again (none / 0) (#67)
    by Teresa on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:05:15 PM EST
    tonight. They already devoted one show when Anderson traveled with him. This is a special segment about his life.

    I believe it's about ratings. (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by 1jpb on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:22:27 PM EST
    This is extremely anecdotal, but, when I go to the B&N magazine rack and see a periodical with BO or Michelle on the cover, there are a lot more copies than that particular periodical would usually have, and they end up selling out.

    If your wondering; I do check these racks very often, so I know when the new issues come and go.

    My guess is that the tube is similar: people like to see what BO is about.

    Of course this is all conjecture, could be totally wrong.

    Parent

    That may well be a factor (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by stillife on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:27:36 PM EST
    The MSM - especially low-rated networks like MSNBC - are courting the coveted youth demographic.

    Parent
    Oh, Anderson! (none / 0) (#73)
    by stillife on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:10:22 PM EST
    I used to love you, but I'm so disappointed in you.

    Parent
    I used to like a lot of people (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by rooge04 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:13:59 PM EST
    once they go all Obamaniac, I cut them off

    Parent
    Now he said the first of a three part (none / 0) (#79)
    by Teresa on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:17:54 PM EST
    series..one on each candidate.

    Parent
    I do want to see (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by stillife on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:25:13 PM EST
    Anderson and Hillary, whenever that happens. Anderson has a good sense of humor and so does she.  

    Despite my Anderson crush, I get the sense that he's not a fan of the Clintons.  However, he once wrote about covering the 2004 convention and meeting Bill Clinton.  He said no matter what you thought of him, his personal charisma was overwhelming.

    Parent

    Oh (none / 0) (#103)
    by sas on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:53:01 PM EST
    yeah

    All these pundit "boys" swoon over the men...makes you think they are into some Freudian thing...

    but put a woman up there, and they run off with their tail between their legs....

    Parent

    I really think it depends on the woman. (none / 0) (#138)
    by independent voter on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:47 AM EST
    I do not find Hillary Clinton charismatic.

    Parent
    Neither do I; that's one of the reasons (none / 0) (#141)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 09:01:23 AM EST
    I'm backing her -- I've seen charisma and distrust what it can do in a democracy.

    The charisma of the Dalai Lama, for example, that's different.  It is something to be wary of in religion but his does not do damage here -- and it continues to comfort the poor people of Tibet.

    Parent

    This is the BFD (none / 0) (#78)
    by kaleidescope on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:16:10 PM EST
    Who used to say that "all polls suck"?

    One poll you didn't mention (none / 0) (#82)
    by flyerhawk on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:22:46 PM EST
    was the Gallup daily tracking poll which has Obama with his biggest lead to date following bitter gate.  

    we didn't follow the (none / 0) (#94)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:34:46 PM EST
    I put that in the post...daily tracking is national and is not about the voters in the upcoming state primaries.

    Parent
    Gallup Also Has A Detectable Day of Week Pattern (none / 0) (#96)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:39:26 PM EST
    Obama's almost always up on Monday.  Clinton almost always comes back mid-week.   Rinse.  Repeat.

    See here.

    Parent

    But you didn't mention that poll (none / 0) (#105)
    by Cream City on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:57:02 PM EST
    also shows that both Obama and Clinton beat McCain exactly the same, by two points (within the MOE, of course).  I like the Gallup tracking poll, but I don't get Clinton and Obama could be 11 points apart when it's between them both come in exactly the same  against McCain.

    Make sense to you?  Seriously, can you (or anyone) here explain that wide a margin, which then disappears, all on the same day?

    Parent

    Uh... (none / 0) (#107)
    by sweetthings on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:00:33 PM EST
    That both Obama and Hillary voters are willing to vote for any Democrat over McCain?

    Parent
    And get exactly the same number (none / 0) (#118)
    by Cream City on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:27:21 PM EST
    in those head to heads but are 11 points apart against each other?  It doesn't wash.  If Obama was that far ahead of Clinton, he would be farther ahead against McCain, too, rather than coming in at exactly the same against McCain as she does.

    Something funky there, and I'm watching the wise polling sites for insight.  But thanks for the thought.

    Parent

    Not necessarily... (none / 0) (#123)
    by sweetthings on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:44:15 PM EST
    If Clinton supporters are more...committed...than Obama's, then it's quite possible that even though Obama is much more popular nationwise, he draws the same support as Clinton against McCain, because given the choice between Hillary and McCain, Obama supporters choose Hillary, while given the choice between Obama and McCain, Hillary supporters lean towards McCain.

    A quick scan of the comments on this site would seem to support such an argument.

    Parent

    aha, evidence that we should nominate Clinton (none / 0) (#128)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:30:31 PM EST
    then since she will keep Obama supporters but he will loose Clinton supporters.

    Parent
    Possibly. (none / 0) (#129)
    by sweetthings on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:36:43 PM EST
    Though there would seem to be a certain moral hazard attached to that approach.

    Parent
    Much of the (none / 0) (#108)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:03:06 PM EST
    low impact of "bittergate" was due to the fact that it was covered as "bittergate," rather than "cling-gate" which is what it actually was.

    Parent
    Battle Fatigue (none / 0) (#83)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:22:52 PM EST
    I'm getting so weary of polls, talking heads, attacks and responses that I can't even read legitimate warnings about McCain over at Digby without screaming 'enough'!  

    Did not expect that to happen - either McCain is a dangerously sympathetic figure or these primaries have really drained my energy.  I hope it is the latter.

    They're only (none / 0) (#93)
    by kayla on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:34:27 PM EST
    setting up the narrative that Hillary is winning because she's ruthless and tearing Obama's image apart.  I can picture Keith whining about how Hillary only won PA (and IN and WV) because she's constatnly going negative and damamging him.

    They have to play innocent like they totally didn't see it coming.  The polls are in his direction right now, according to them, and only she can ruin it with her accusations of Obama being out of touch.

    Mika is doing everything (none / 0) (#120)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:29:21 PM EST
    she can to switch the focus from bitter-gate back to bosnia/sniper-gate.  she mentioned it several times this morning.  she also mentioned hillary "overplaying her hand" with bitter-gate and how it could backfire on her several times.  

    i guess if you say it enough times, it becomes news in msnbcity.  

    Parent

    It's all Faux News (none / 0) (#102)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:50:31 PM EST
    I watch the local news but only for Gardening with Cisco.  The rest is just bias.  Even Cisco is biased toward particular plants! ;-).

    International News sometimes is truthful, but that's rare too.  

    One would think the opening for a real news show would be huge.  However, I guess real news doesn't sell.

    Great right-wing talking point (none / 0) (#115)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 10:16:56 PM EST
    adopted by Obama and his supporters:  "It's all Clinton's fault!"

    It will be her fault if he loses or his poll numbers drop because he goes off-script.

    The more things change the more they stay the same.

    interesting comparisons, (none / 0) (#126)
    by cpinva on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:06:42 PM EST
    though the trend line still favors clinton overall. i suspect obama should take NC because of the demographics (21% AA community, voting almost exclusively for obama), but that assumes a relatively large AA turnout, by comparison to prior elections.

    unfortunately for both candidates, neither would win NC in the fall. remember, this is the state that gave us strom "the sarcophagus" thurmond, that basion of social enlightenment, for so many years.

    one nice effect of this torturous nomination... (none / 0) (#136)
    by kempis on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:20:19 AM EST
    ...is that the scales have fallen from more people's eyes and they can see Olbermann for the O'Reillyesque embarrassment that he is. I've long wished the guy were on the other side.
    My wife and I watched Olberman (none / 0) (#139)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:24:02 AM EST
    for the first time in nearly a year on Monday and thought it was an infomercial for Obama.  As an Obama supporter it makes me sad to see such an imbalance.  I always thought Keith was a bit goofy but Mondays show is indicative of everything that is wrong with MSM.  There is very little balance, very little thought provoking coverage and since Aaron Brown left CNN, no one worth watching on american news.   Although John Stewart still provides the best analysis of the news bar none.  We switched back to BBC after Monday wondering why we even considered a US news station...

    Interesting reply -- thanks for this take (none / 0) (#142)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 09:05:47 AM EST
    even from an Obama backer who see it.  And thanks for reminding that the BBC channel is an option, as I find it fascinating and useful to read the foreign press on this campaign.

    And I never will forget the BBC announcement of the results of the 1992 election.  The reporter called it in from what he called "the colonies" to this day and said that we had elected a "saxophonist" to the presidency, with emphasis on the second syllable, i.e., sax-OFF-un-ist.

    Well, after we had elected an actor, I suppose the world thought Americans were capable of putting just anyone in the White House.  And 2000 proved that.

    Parent

    Watching Olberman (none / 0) (#143)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 09:42:13 AM EST
    eat his parents is funny, sad or disgusting.

    You folks can pick!

    Regarding bias ... (none / 0) (#145)
    by NotThatStupid on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:49:56 PM EST
    ... in the media: it is all too obvious that the national news networks have abandoned any pretense of journalistic ethics in this primary season and have ceased to be credible reporters of political news. What was once a proud tradition of digging for the truth has now become one of finding the sound-bite that best fits the spin these networks want their viewers to believe. All is opinion and entertainment; there seem to be no reporters, only editorialists, these days.

    I want news reporters who do only that - report the news. Tell me what happened, who did it, where it happened, when it happened, how it happened, but be very careful when you try to tell me why it happened. And, above all, don't tell me what it means. I can figure that out for myself.

    I realize that simply complaining to the networks will do nothing to change the way they operate, so I am following a different strategy. I make note of the sponsors of the "news" programs that don't know the difference between reporting and opinionating, then I write or email both the networks and the sponsors and tell them that I will not buy the sponsors' products, or patronize their businesses in any way, because of the poor judgment they have shown by sponsoring (enter name of program).

    I think the only hope we have of changing the sorry state of broadcast journalism in the U.S. is to hit `em in the pocketbook.

    By way of thanks to Senator Clinton supporters... (none / 0) (#147)
    by 2 Cents on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:37:59 PM EST
    who post to counteract the onslaught of negative comments by "whomever" --

    I offer An Irish Campaign Slogan

    May those who support Clinton, support Clinton;
    ~~
    and those who don't support Clinton, may God turn their hearts;
    ~~
    and if He doesn't turn their hearts,
    ~~
    may he turn their ankles so we'll know them by their limping.

    Faux News Reporting | 125 comments (125 topical)

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