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Late Night Open Thread: R.I.P. Yves Saint Laurent

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:27:46 PM EST
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Yves Saint Laurent has died at 71. He is credited with, among other things, introducing the pantsuit to American women. Above is one of his jackets I loved to wear.

Since Geraldo was on tv tonight saying Hillary got "screwed" yesterday by the DNC, that she has won the popular vote and is the better candidate, I thought I'd share this photo of Geraldo and me from 1998 in which I'm wearing the pictured YSL jacket.

R.I.P. Mr. Saint Laurent. I really did love your clothes. This is a late night open thead, but see the caveat below [More...]:

There will be no discussion on this site of a smear of Michelle Obama the right wing and certain bloggers are anticipating tomorrow. No links to it, no reference to it. Period.

Other than that, all topics welcome.

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    Late Night Open Thread: R.I.P. Yves Saint Laurent | 158 comments (158 topical)

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    Well, Paul Krugman is good today, twice! (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:39:56 PM EST
    First he Champions Knight-Ridder/McClatchy  and links to Bob Somerby, and second he gives a sobering column on the prospect of a wage-price spiral.

    Love Krugman! (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:06:08 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Go high end e-shopping In memory of YSL... (none / 0) (#141)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:11:47 AM EST
    Neiman, Bergdorf, Saks, and Barney's are all having on-line sales in June, complete with free shipping. If you want a $1000 (creative-class) bag for $500, now's the time to go there. And they never close! I just got a black, crinkle patent leather Hogan number that takes me out for a strut and a stroll.

    Tips for a long term 'investment' bag that doesn't date itself: pick a bag by a less super-trendy designer; avoid the highly identifiable, tricked-out "it" bags and prominent logos. i.e. a bag that screams the name of its maker and has specific details that identify it as a bag made by say, Marc Jacobs, for the spring '08 collection, that will be dated next fall. (Not that there's anything inherently wrong with Marc Jacobs.)

    Have fun.

    [ Parent ]

    P.S. Shopping tips for a big ticket item/car (none / 0) (#143)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:26:23 AM EST
    I wrote the book, well a pamphlet, no more like a single page flyer, on how to buy a new car for less than the Edmund's Guide rock-bottom price.

    Let me know if you're interested.

    [ Parent ]

    Thanks for all of your work this weekend, Jeralyn. (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by jeffinalabama on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:40:08 PM EST
    I have appreciated it greatly, and I owe the site a debt of gratitude, and a small donation, which will be forthcoming. Please thank BTD and backfromOhio ( is that correct?) for their work this weekend also.
    Back From Ohio (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:43:03 PM EST
    recommends this Washington Post article today by Dana Milbank.

    He was seated a few feet from BFO yesterday, and quotes some of statements shouted by the audience and likens the 50% vote recognition to the 3/5 Constitutional provision.

    That's a depressing article (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:47:44 PM EST
    that pretty much encapsulates my day of C-SPAN.

    [ Parent ]
    made me mad all over again (n/t) (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by DandyTIger on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:09:18 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    "But not this day" (none / 0) (#31)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:02:58 AM EST
    best line of the article.

    [ Parent ]
    Too bad (none / 0) (#153)
    by kenoshaMarge on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:29:34 AM EST
    Frodo and Sam aren't carrying the ring to Mt. Doom. Or maybe it's Brazile and Dean that are carrying the party to Doom in November. Only time will tell.

    [ Parent ]
    Something tells me (none / 0) (#49)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:11:56 AM EST
    he won't be discussing this article on Olbermann.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, yes, he will (none / 0) (#126)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 02:27:24 AM EST
    because it ridicules the Dem. Party and those silly upset voters.  KO loves that stuff.  It's been Milbanks's bread and butter for a long time now.


    [ Parent ]
    Huh...great pic. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:45:10 PM EST


    A decade later, and both the jacket (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by Cream City on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:50:59 PM EST
    and Jeralyn look timeless.  Drat.  Me, I've aged as much as the jackets in my closet that my daughter mocks.  Of course, then all I have to do is drag out a few of her high school photos a decade ago, and we call a truce. :-)

    [ Parent ]
    Jeralyn of course, but the jacket.... (5.00 / 0) (#26)
    by jerry on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:01:40 AM EST
    no offense, but the pin striping on the jacket reminds me of James T. Kirk in "A Piece of the Action."


    [ Parent ]
    you should see the matchng pants (5.00 / 0) (#75)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:26:47 AM EST
    that come with it, real wide legged with big cuffs at the bottom. I never wore them together.

    And yes, ten years has made a difference. I wish I was still a size 6 so I could still wear it.

    [ Parent ]

    Size 6, yes (5.00 / 0) (#82)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:36:40 AM EST
    those were the days.  

    [ Parent ]
    Jeralyn's a dish!! (none / 0) (#111)
    by Eleanor A on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:15:55 AM EST
    Love that big smile!  

    [ Parent ]
    Yes (none / 0) (#54)
    by Athena on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:13:40 AM EST
    Yes, great picture.  And Geraldo was great tonight.    

    [ Parent ]
    Hilarious exchange at end of closed thread (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Cream City on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:46:03 PM EST
    earlier between our regular Grace and one of the legion of drive-by blogcloggers who surfaced today -- one called OneOfMany who did a cut-and-paste from an illiterate Obamamemo, it seems:

    What is this?
    by Grace

    He has a 50 straight strategy that will help solidify a a governing Democratic majority in Congress

    I've heard of a "50 State strategy" but never a "50 straight strategy."  What the heck is that?  Is he planning to appoint 50 straight members to something?  By "straight," is he referring to "not gay"?  Is he gonna pass 50 straight bills?  Make 50 straight rule changes?  Make 50 straight decisions?  Can I buy a vowel?  I really don't get this new "50 straight strategy."

    My mistake, 50 state strategy
    by OneOfMany

    to break the gridlock in WA.

    Why would Obama
    by Grace

    care about gridlock in the state of Washington?  

    love the word (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:47:19 PM EST
    blogclogger. Did you just invent it? It's a keeper.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeh. I did. I have this secret dream (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Cream City on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:52:36 PM EST
    career of being a bumper-sticker writer.

    I bequeath the term to you to use at will. :-)

    [ Parent ]

    Nice coinage (5.00 / 0) (#33)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:03:49 AM EST
    Fans of not-exactly-fleet-footed Jason Giambi, the ballplayer, mock sportscasters who bemoan his lack of speed (which more statistically-savvy observers realize only slightly detracts from the great value of his ability to get on base), by referring to him as "baseclogger".

    [ Parent ]
    LOL Love it. Can I do that too? (n/t) (none / 0) (#27)
    by DandyTIger on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:02:13 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Sure, there's a lot of bumpers out there (none / 0) (#47)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:11:09 AM EST
    just begging for some new snark.  I mean, how many times can we mock the "my son is an honor roll student at [blank] school" one?  And heck, with Bush on his way out, there will be a lot of bumpers that need some serious updating.

    Maybe we need an Open Thread for new bumper stickers.:-)

    [ Parent ]

    my son can beat up your honor student (none / 0) (#110)
    by DandyTIger on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:14:35 AM EST
    was one I saw. Laughed out loud on that one. There are a lot of great ones out there. That would be a fun profession if we could just get paid.

    [ Parent ]
    My labrador (none / 0) (#114)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:22:16 AM EST
    is smarter than you're honor student!

    [ Parent ]
    How about (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:28:06 AM EST
    My labrador is smarter than your RBC member!

    [ Parent ]
    i saw one the other day where the guy's car (none / 0) (#127)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 02:34:19 AM EST
    was smarter than the honor student.

    [ Parent ]
    I have (none / 0) (#154)
    by kenoshaMarge on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:36:18 AM EST
    added so many new words, phrases and bumper stickers to my vocabulary lately that I feel as I am almost ready to become a higher information voter. (Not high information like the better educated and high income folks but almost someone to be respected.)

    Blogclogger = my favorite
    Fauxgressive= is high second place

    I prefer the term blogclogger to the term "troll" but I still picture them as looking like the trolls in "Willow".

    [ Parent ]

    new TL rules (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by ding7777 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:12:59 AM EST
    goodbye chatterer, hello blogclogger

    [ Parent ]
    To think that this is the generation (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:50:29 PM EST
    that will one day run our country! It is really appalling. I know they put some of it on, but with so many, saying similar things, in that "tone" does not make me too hopeful for an intelligent tomorrow. I want to get this posted as they'll be here soon.

    [ Parent ]
    Of course, just ask anyone in Seattle (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Cream City on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:55:40 PM EST
    and they'll tell you that there is serious gridlock in the state of Washington, every rush hour when trying to cross Puget Sound.  Maybe Obama won there by making some promise to solve it for the Sounders, some policy like a free latte for car-pooling? :-)

    [ Parent ]
    Wasn't that Obama supporter great? (none / 0) (#30)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:02:52 AM EST
    And she had a ton of cut and paste to post.  Wonder if she proofread any of it?

    I have a question maybe someone could answer:  Are these "roaming supporters" paid to post?  It seems like they are everywhere, posting similar things over and over again.  

    [ Parent ]

    Ah, I get to thank the witty Grace (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:14:58 AM EST
    here for the mess you made of my keyboard, as I spewed my soda on it at that exchange.  It was too good to go off to that great cyberblackhole in the sky where the ends of threads are not widely read.

    Yes, there were reports about a week or so ago that Obama had hired 400 keyboarding kids to clog the blogs.  There have been complaints here that we ought to be insulted by the low caliber of those sent here, with their poor spelling, grammar, punctuation, syntax, etc.  You would think that we would merit at least better cutting and pasting.:-)

    [ Parent ]

    On another board I post on (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:32:34 AM EST
    there was one a few months ago.  She was twisting herself like a pretzel, trying to turn Hillary's "Ready on Day One" into something racist.  She swore that it was racist because it implied that Obama wouldn't be ready on day one because he was lazy and that was a black stereotype.  <rolleyes>

    This board must be getting the discount trolls.  Maybe they are sending us the trainees?    

    Anyway...  Sorry about the keyboard!  The best part of the internet is the free laughs!  

    [ Parent ]

    what have the Clintons said (none / 0) (#135)
    by Josey on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 03:01:59 AM EST
    that WASN'T considered "racist" by Obama and his followers?
    They twist themselves into a pretzel manufacturing accusations of racism!
    So sick of it!!  and a major reason I don't support Obama.


    [ Parent ]
    well (none / 0) (#59)
    by Andy08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:15:07 AM EST
    it has been said that Obama had 400 bloggers on the payroll...(must be below minimum wage b/c you can detect them 100 miles in advance).

    [ Parent ]
    I missed this (none / 0) (#78)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:32:30 AM EST
    Who was it, "onetoomany"? If you all don't let me know, I miss a lot of them. I think we are over 1,000 comments a day now. I really can't read them all (even if I wanted to.)

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, OneOfMany -- and Ophite (none / 0) (#120)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:46:55 AM EST
    whom you warned about misrepresenting what you wrote, in response to his/her very first post here on the first day . . . and now has posted yards and yards (a wordy one, that Ophite) to hijack threads by luring in the unwary with quite the untruths.

    However, the good news is that their spelling, grammar, punctuation, and syntax seem to be of better caliber than those of the earlier cadre. :-)

    [ Parent ]

    I am of that generation (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Practically Lactating on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:58:09 PM EST
    but am seriously considering a move south of the border in the next couple of years.

    I think there is some sort of generational warfare going on but I must have missed that day of class. I don't get it. My parents did well by me.

    [ Parent ]

    Isla Mujeres, the isle of the women (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:40:37 AM EST
    as it's called for the ancient shrine there to a Mayan goddess (sadly damaged by recent hurricanes) is absolutely wonderful and very accessible back and forth to the states, so a lot (okay, maybe soon too many) of Americanos are living there at least part of the year now.  More tourists, too, but lots of Europeans so very laid back (including at the topless beach!) and lots of restaurants, web access, bookstores, etc. now as well as a beautiful national park.  It's only a 15-minute ferry ride from Cancun, with lots of cheap and direct flights there for back and forthing -- but it's still a fishing-village island, a world away from the shopping-mall atmosphere of Cancun.

    Might be worth a trip as a starting point to check out other great sites on the marvelous Mayan Riviera.  And there are lots of day trips to the incredible pyramids of Chichen Itza, Tulum, and other archaeological sites that everyone ought to see to even begin to understand the extraordinary history of Mexican civilizations and contributions.

    [ Parent ]

    i'll always remember my trip down to tulum and (none / 0) (#129)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 02:40:00 AM EST
    chichen itza. wonderful times! isla mujeres used to be off the beaten track, but now! the mexican riveria has built up considerably in recent years.

    [ Parent ]
    i heard from a good source that (none / 0) (#38)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:06:38 AM EST
    social security has an office in panama. i won't confirm it of course. interesting!

    [ Parent ]
    I've been considering a visit to Panama. (none / 0) (#50)
    by Practically Lactating on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:12:14 AM EST
    Panama was discussed at length in "Confessions of an Economic Hitman," a book I just read and recommend to anyone that is not sufficiently depressed by this primary.

    [ Parent ]
    hey thanks! let me recommend (none / 0) (#71)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:22:54 AM EST
    international living magazine. just goggle it. they have articles and ideas about living in a number of retirement or run away from it all places. in fact they hold seminars in various parts of the country. there was one in new orleans last year that i missed and kicked myself about for awhile.

    [ Parent ]
    You can collect SS checks at any embassy. (none / 0) (#87)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:41:05 AM EST
    But you have to get it face to face.

    How would I know that? I dunno, just sayin'...;-)

    [ Parent ]

    lol!~ you just reminded me of the 2 NYC (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:56:41 AM EST
    guys that wheeled their dead friend to the check cashing place so they could cash his check . . .  

    [ Parent ]
    The rainforests of Belize and Costa Rica (none / 0) (#70)
    by ap in avl on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:22:36 AM EST
    are fabulous.  I have daily fantasies of waking up to howler monkeys and mot-mots

    Better than howling trolls and bot-bots.

    [ Parent ]

    gorgeous isn't it. (none / 0) (#72)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:24:23 AM EST
    the medical care is costa rica is excellent. many of the doctors are trained in the usa, spain, and south america. fortunately i live within driving range of the border for dental care.

    [ Parent ]
    Oooh I'm so jealous (none / 0) (#81)
    by ap in avl on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:36:01 AM EST
    Wish I could get back there more often.  Such a paradise.  

    [ Parent ]
    If you go to the Osa Peninsula in (none / 0) (#92)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:48:49 AM EST
    Costa Rica, two former public defenders from Colorado own and run the Iguana Lodge. I haven't been but a lot of friends have and say it's wonderful and not expensive.

    [ Parent ]
    You really want scary?? (none / 0) (#84)
    by FlaDemFem on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:37:55 AM EST
    These are the people who will be taking care of us when we are old and helpless. If they toss us under the bus now without a thought, imagine what we'll get when we need care and medical attention. Not much, I imagine.

    [ Parent ]
    let's not tar them all (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:51:16 AM EST
    The TL kid is 27 and very sensitive to those issues.  I'm sure there are many like him.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks (none / 0) (#106)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:09:22 AM EST
    I've been seeing a bit of the ageism around, and it's kind of hard to respond to.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree.... (none / 0) (#156)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:05:22 AM EST
    It's kinda creepy how our elders think so little of us.

    I don't think the boomers would like it if we judged them by G-Dub or any of their less than stellar generation members.  Like all generations, they did good and they did bad...though I don't think it can be argued that our generation has inherited a massive debt, a challenging economic situtation, and slew of problems partially caused by boomer foreign policy. On the bright side, we inherited a society with less racial and sexual discrimination....and I'll always be especially grateful for the golden age of music.

    I carried out my fathers last wishes, as I will for my mother and see to her well-being till her time comes.  I do all the upkeep on my rented house for my sweetheart of an old landlady for next to nothing.  I check in on my lifelong bachelor of a great-uncle whose got nobody.  I let the govt. jack my check to pay for social security, which I don't mind, it's paying for bombs and DEA officers that gets my goat:)

    Botton line...let each individual be judged on the content of their character.

    [ Parent ]

    Jeralyn, I think the post I replied to (none / 0) (#155)
    by FlaDemFem on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:57:22 AM EST
    was referring to Obama supporters and their rudeness. Not properly brought up young men. I think you should apologize to the TL kid for thinking he was included in the Obama rude people group. Heh.

    [ Parent ]
    aww &^*! (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by boredmpa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:02:43 AM EST
    50 straights?!  I mean sure he dissed the SF mayor and did the down-low meeting about bitter folks (which perpetuates myths about sf folks being elitist), but a 50 straight strategy? Whatever will they wear? And are they kicking out barney frank?

    Are you sure this wasn't a republican blogclogger talking about another round of anti-gay ballot measures to help GOTV?  Or the lead in for a joke about senator wide stance?

    [ Parent ]

    Um (none / 0) (#34)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:04:02 AM EST
    57 state strategy....

    [ Parent ]
    Clinton's Edge (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Athena on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:48:33 PM EST
    Clinton has cleaned Obama's clock in the last few months.  Obama is like the real estate market: don't buy while values are falling.

    Don't rush.

    It's clear to me that a massive rescue will have to be launched if Obama is the nominee - states that were safe are volatile, and no map secured. Clinton, by contrast, starts out with an electoral vote lead and could only build and devote energy to insuring downticket success.

    Hillary must keep her campaign going until Denver - when Obama's true prospects are clearer, and the data will be even more convincing regarding her electoral strength.

    More shoes dropping.. (none / 0) (#115)
    by daria g on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:28:04 AM EST
    via Jake Tapper - more Pfleger video from last Sunday: "America is the Greatest Sin Against God"
    ugh.  He's a gift to the GOP that keeps on giving.

    [ Parent ]
    and Phleger attacked Joel O'Steen! (none / 0) (#136)
    by Josey on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 03:09:45 AM EST
    WOW
    Seems everyone is going to hell in a handbasket if they don't embrace Trinity and Phleger's radical beliefs.


    [ Parent ]
    Can't believe your (and BTD's) stamina (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by ap in avl on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:48:42 PM EST
    Thanks so much for everything you guys do to keep us informed.  Most of us would complain if we had to work this hard over the weekend after putting in a full-time work week.  I don't know how you two do it.  Just know that you are heroes to so many of us out here who have been looking for a place where we can learn, contribute and be treated fairly.  You run this place with integrity (your ground rules for this open thread are a wonderful example).  I will contribute what I can to help keep this site running.  We're all the better for it.
    Thank you, that is a real (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:52:42 AM EST
    spirit boost, particularly late on a Sunday night when I start the work week again in the morning.

    [ Parent ]
    I hope you sleep soundly tonight (none / 0) (#104)
    by ap in avl on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:03:17 AM EST
    and wake up well-rested.  God knows you deserve it.

    [ Parent ]
    Fun Project (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:49:21 PM EST
    Google and find posts and comments from the early part of the primary, say, January, where the Obama crowd was screaming that the Superdelegates will go against the will of the people.  Will of the people was defined as "votes" or "delegate wins" from caucuses, interesting how you will find the laying of the groundwork  for their argument.  Articles title the Tyranny of the SuperDelegates, etc. etc.  Now, they do not want to discuss the will of the people.  

    Looking for a version of the Moveon letter that talked about the will of the people.  

    SD Arrogance (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Athena on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:55:02 PM EST
    It actually reversed from what it's supposed to be - with all the SDs trying to lead, rather than step in later after the voters weigh in.  Someone earlier today here said that the SDs should never have declared before all the primaries were over, and I agree.

    It allowed all the anti-Clinton power brokers in the party to stampede to Obama early, making him appear way more strong than he really is.

    Only the actual voters were able to demonstrate his striking electoral weaknesses.

    [ Parent ]

    The Move on Petition words (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:58:37 PM EST
    The superdelegates are under lots of pressure right now to come out for one candidate or the other. We urgently need to encourage them to let the voters decide between Clinton and Obama--and then to support the will of the people.

    Well, the best record of voters, is the popular vote.

    Do you guys think we should now rejoin MoveOn and tell them to take up that issue again,  Voters decide, did not say, caucus attendees.  

    [ Parent ]

    love it (none / 0) (#52)
    by DandyTIger on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:13:12 AM EST
    but somehow, I think they will magically change their tune, or somehow have no idea how anyone could consider Hillary the popular vote winner. Just a guess. :-)

    [ Parent ]
    NY supers must not have gotten the memo (none / 0) (#145)
    by Newt on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:46:57 AM EST
    NYers voted 57% for Hillary vs. 40% for Obama, yet 45 of NY's supers are declared for Hillary and only one for Obama.  There are two or three still uncommitted, but I have a good guess which way they'll go...

    [ Parent ]
    Move On Comedy (none / 0) (#22)
    by Athena on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:58:18 PM EST
    Is this it?  It's comic now.

    You've probably heard about the "superdelegates" who could end up deciding the Democratic nominee.

    The superdelegates are under lots of pressure right now to come out for one candidate or the other. We urgently need to encourage them to let the voters decide between Clinton and Obama--and then to support the will of the people.



    [ Parent ]

    Awesome... (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:13:28 AM EST
    Do you think they will fight for Hillary now?  Particularly considering the nature of caucuses?  

    [ Parent ]
    It is part of (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by Andy08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:25:04 AM EST
    Dean's new  48 + 1/2 + 1/2 states strategy for the
    GE it is called "the phony unity pony".
    It is suppose to convey the idea they were all neutral and really really fair in their treatment of the candidates. Moreover that they really really really like Hillary...

    Someone commented earlier as well how today everyone including DB (OMG!) were prasing Hillary on CNN.

    Sooo predictable....

    [ Parent ]

    Its the (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by LoisInCo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:28:54 AM EST
    "Baby I love you" after the violence to our votes.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Andy08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:31:23 AM EST
    that sounds about right...

    [ Parent ]
    Another bumper sticker (none / 0) (#89)
    by ap in avl on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:43:42 AM EST
    "Phoney Pony"

    Good one

    [ Parent ]

    Link (none / 0) (#25)
    by Athena on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:00:33 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Great Commentary on Obama's Resignation (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:57:25 PM EST
    from his church.

    Obama Acts Like Obama

    True to form, Barack Obama's explanation yesterday of his reasons for leaving Trinity Church are a model of double-talk.

    The comments are good too.  

    a comment from the article (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Josey on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 03:32:16 AM EST
    >>>There will never be a Friends of Barack group like the old Friends of Bill, because all of Barack's friends are expendable when the heat is on.

    Yeah - it's getting crowded under the bus!


    [ Parent ]

    Btw, I see that the Obamas (none / 0) (#37)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:06:20 AM EST
    informed the new pastor that they were leaving the church, and that Obama says they will find a new one in November -- after the election.  In the UCC, as I recall, one is still on the rolls unless and until one, in writing, resigns and/or requests a transfer.

    Without such a written letter, the status of the Obamas may be more correctly stated as "not attending," which is determined only after they have not attended for a certain stretch of time.  And if they stop fulfilling their pledged donations, there will be a status for that, too.

    It just would be interesting to know if they dotted the i's and crossed the t's to officially leave the church.  If not, they're just on summer vacation with most of us seasonal Christians. :-)  (My church, related to UCC, finally set up Sunday services outdoors for us to attend in shorts and then get right back to our gardens and ball games.)

    [ Parent ]

    I have to laugh that (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:14:18 AM EST
    Obama thinks he has a "fairly conventional Christian faith."  Well, yeah - if you think the KKK is just another fraternal group!

    I just have to wonder what planet he's living on.  He seems so naive at times.  


    [ Parent ]

    He's not naive (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 02:34:32 AM EST
    he just think we're naive.  He's right about the media, about us not so much.


    [ Parent ]
    Seasonal, check this (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:19:24 AM EST
    out about his idea of "church" and what he is looking for.  
    That's not the role of church. My -- again what I want to do in church is I want to be able to take Michelle and my girls, sit in a pew quietly, hopefully get some nice music, some good reflection, praise God, thank Him for all of the blessings He has given our family, put some money in the collection plate, maybe afterwards go out and grab some brunch, have my girls go to Sunday school. That's what I am looking for.

    I was disturbed by the press conference.  I am not religious, but his answer really floored me.  I have read it over and over, the transcript, and I cannot tell why it's disturbing.  I will give it one more day.  


    [ Parent ]

    Well, maybe it's (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by daria g on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:07:23 AM EST
    The weirdness comes from the fact that it's all about what Obama gets from the church, and that praising God is just one thing on the menu, next to brunch.

    [ Parent ]
    I mean (none / 0) (#107)
    by daria g on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:09:39 AM EST
    As a lapsed Catholic, if I had that menu, I'd just take the music and the brunch, what's the difference.  Just saying.  (But, as a lapsed Catholic, I feel awfully guilty about saying that because I don't think it is respectful to put praising God in a laundry list.)

    [ Parent ]
    Okaaaaay..just a couple of questions (4.75 / 4) (#101)
    by FlaDemFem on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:59:29 AM EST
    about that..
    what I want to do in church is I want to be able to take Michelle and my girls, sit in a pew quietly,
    Then why choose a church where they don't sit quietly, they jump up and down and yell a lot. And the preacher doesn't preach about love, peace, and not sinning but about politics and hate. And...
    hopefully get some nice music, some good reflection,
    Although the choir is probably pretty good, it doesn't seem as though they are central to the services at UCC as they are in many black churches. I am going to skip over the "praise God and..." bit. Faith is personal. But..
    put some money in the collection plate,
    $27,000+ is a lot of dollars. It is about $25 every Sunday for 20 years.
    So, he spent 20 years in a church that did not offer a place to sit quietly and reflect, and that, as he has stated, did not reflect his values. Why?

    I expect that we will soon get an explanation, the usual WORM, about how Obama was really looking for the local black Episcopalians, but that these radical UCC people lured him in with promises of community organizing and service. And they were so nice to his wife that he just stayed. But he never noticed that they didn't preach sermons or have quiet reflection and prayer like the Episcopalians that he had really been looking for. Oh, and it's not his fault. It just isn't. What church he chose was in God's hands, and so it's God's fault. Heh.

    [ Parent ]

    He's trying to set an image in people's (4.66 / 3) (#85)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:40:31 AM EST
    minds of the perfect family in the perfect church.  Just oh so squeaky clean in hopes on replacing the current image folks have. Think of the church flier piece he sent around in KY only it needs to be more neutral so folks of different faiths can substitue their place of worship.

    It's a very adaptable generic image  ;)

    I find this interesting:

    be able to take Michelle and my girls,

    Shouldn't it be more Michelle and I would like? Maybe I'm being picky, but for the "Yes we can" guy, he seems very self-centered in his speech and actions. I would like to think this was a decision made by them as a couple.

    [ Parent ]

    It's the Norman Rockwell church (none / 0) (#118)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:34:22 AM EST
    that Jimmy Stewart went to...  

    Regarding Michelle:  He's trying to introduce her to the concept of "religion outside of the Chicago area" so he'll have to take her.  

    [ Parent ]

    Here's something I'm very glad to hear Obama say: (none / 0) (#142)
    by Newt on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:25:57 AM EST
    ...it's not infrequent for example if you go into a church and a comment is made that suggests for example an aversion to gays and lesbians. That is something that I do not believe in and if I heard that from the pulpit, I would strongly object to it.

    It is something I think that Michelle and I are going to have to sort through

    After being shafted by Bill Clinton's Don't Ask Don't Tell compromise and his signing of the so called Defense of Marriage Act, I hope whichever candidate wins really does come through for equal rights for gay citizens. At the very least, federal recognition of gay families might limit future gay baiting GOTV tactics by the right wing.


    [ Parent ]

    He didn't object to it when (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by miguelito on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:22:53 AM EST
    he had Donnie McClurkin campaigning for him.

    [ Parent ]
    Yup, he's definitely got to get a handle on who he (none / 0) (#147)
    by Newt on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:41:44 AM EST
    invites to the table.  There are plenty of other religious people who aren't so religiously anti-gay.  That's what we're here for, to make sure those nut jobs don't have even more sway than they already have.

    [ Parent ]
    Bill Clinton (none / 0) (#150)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:40:47 AM EST
    Did what he could given the political climate of the time, which was way more than anyone else could do. Just as Hillary did with health care at the time.

    You guys and your comments/criticisms about those years reveal a true lack of historical understanding.

    [ Parent ]

    Because there's no learning curve? (4.50 / 2) (#91)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:48:25 AM EST
    The Protestant faiths from Luther forward emphasize constant learning -- that's why sermons with a great pastor are so scholarly (in terms of research, if translated into layspeak for us nonseminarians:-).  And why Protestant sermons are so long, the main part of the service, compared to the Catholic homilies of my upbringing.  I found the switch starting, the Protestant sermons like great grad seminars -- because the post-service meet-and-greet times often continued the discussion.

    And learning is not passive; it is active and requires that we not just sit back but contribute back by taking part in such ongoing discussions.

    His comment sounds more like going to a concert or a country club.  Certainly, the socialization parts, the Sunday School parts, and more are significant in most churchgoers' lives -- but they ought not be central in their lives.  I think this does just sound unscripted and rushed on his part.

    [ Parent ]

    You got it..it's been bugging me (none / 0) (#103)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:02:15 AM EST
    and the MSM kept talking about how well he did in the press conference and no one has picked up on this.  How does he get away with this stuff?  To him it's a social ritual, nothing with inner self, etc.  I am really stunned.  Cream, you got it.  It's been bugging me and I looked at the transcript trying to see what created that physical reaction.  

    [ Parent ]
    And what does that say about him (none / 0) (#121)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:53:59 AM EST
    or Trinity Church, whichever, about lacking the learning curve?  That is telling, to me.

    [ Parent ]
    because (none / 0) (#83)
    by boredmpa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:37:13 AM EST
    he's talking about it like a pol, or a car, or an interview question about "why do you want to work here" and coming off uninspired.

    It doesn't come off as authentic because it's a list of items on a calendar without depth in any of them.      I'd give him a break on that though, cause he's being hammered and it's hard to switch to inspiration/personal issues when getting hammered.  I've seen it with city managers...you catch one before a meeting with the general public and you can catch a completely different person.

    [ Parent ]

    City managers...(huh) (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:42:06 AM EST
    at least they know budgeting, personnel policies, union negotiations, contracting, codes....etc etc.  

    I thought Mr. Inspiration would be looking for something more in a church than the "going to brunch" after.  Gee, where is the authenticity.  He could have even said, this is a private matter between my family and myself.  

    [ Parent ]

    yeah (none / 0) (#125)
    by boredmpa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 02:14:15 AM EST
    that's what he should have said, and i probably shouldnt cut him any slack after the mailer with him at the pulpit like a lay-leader. that really angered me ethically and politically and in terms of family (rev mom is a UCC minister).

    nonetheless, the primary process is like a year long interview from hell.  So though I won't vote for him for other reasons, i'll give him a pass on this particular uninspired response.

    [ Parent ]

    But to sell the car, get the job (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:49:15 AM EST
    they gotta believe what you are saying.

    Honestly, if he doesn't want to go to a church and sit quietly in a pew and hope to hear some good music, he shouldn't say he does. There are plenty of lively churches that are a bit more mainstream in the message (or maybe less offensive is better phrasing). He's projecting a cookie cutter* description that he hopes will have broad appeal.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama's idea of church, (none / 0) (#122)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:56:03 AM EST
    I haven't read the transcript but, based on that quote, the church Obama is now "looking for" is the diametrical opposite of the rip-roaring TUCC. I find the comment disturbing because it seems barely coherent.

    Does anybody remember the scene in "Nashville", where the Loretta Lynn-ish character has a mini-breakdown on stage? She stops singing, and starts to ramble about feeding the chickens back on the farm when she was a kid. Great movie; great scene. Sounds like some recent off-script, Obama-speak.

    [ Parent ]

    interesting article about TUCC and the race speech (none / 0) (#148)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:36:04 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    woops (none / 0) (#149)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:36:54 AM EST
    I used the link button and it looked like it worked in the post box, but no dice. Can't make it work. Anyway, it's by Linda Chavez in Commentary magazine.

    [ Parent ]
    In the Press conference (none / 0) (#63)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:15:46 AM EST
    Obama said January he will look for a church
    We probably won't make any firm decision on this until January when we know what our lives are going to be like.


    [ Parent ]
    Thanks, very interesting reading.... (none / 0) (#64)
    by jerry on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:15:48 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yeah! (none / 0) (#68)
    by Andy08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:20:27 AM EST
    I saw that article; Jennifer Rubin is brillant.
    The article is dead on and I agree the comments are great and very thoughtful (except some, very very few from Obama supporters rabidly insulting jennifer herself; it is despicable...Why do they have always to use that language?)

    I recommend the article to everyone!

    [ Parent ]

    another good article (none / 0) (#137)
    by Josey on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 03:20:15 AM EST
    Fears grow that Obama can't win --

    Guardian - June 1, 2008 -  http://tinyurl.com/3m46hg


    [ Parent ]

    Jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:59:47 PM EST
    Do I remember you on Geraldo from the OJ trial or Clinton impeachment?

    Clinton Impeachment (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:01:31 AM EST
    I didn't do OJ's criminal case, I started with Oklahoma City and JonBenet and went from there. But the impeachment stuff is what people most remember. I did more than 75 of Geraldo's Rivera Live shows in those years. Back then, the shows kept the guests for the full hour, not the 3 to 7 minute segments they do now, so it made more of an impression.

    We even got paid for it back then. By 2000, they realized most lawyers would go on for free and except for a few, ended the contracts.

    [ Parent ]

    We watched (none / 0) (#112)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:20:34 AM EST
    Geraldo every night during Impeachment, but I guess I try and block that time out of my mind so it's a bit of a blur now.  Little did I know that those were the good old days ;-).

    I agree the format was much better then.  And contracts for pay are always good.

    I'm glad we have you here now.  You've been good for us, emotional salve.

    Take Care

    [ Parent ]

    Geraldo's show was terrific (none / 0) (#130)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 02:40:23 AM EST
    back then.  I loved the fact that he had this mixed group of regulars that he seemed to have real affection for, even the nightmarish DeGenova and whatshername duo.

    I will never forget being tuned to Geraldo when the SC decision came down and everybody was trying to figure out what it meant right on the air.

    I was very sorry when he went to Fox and went back to being the older and often rather silly version of Geraldo.


    [ Parent ]

    true! i watched. the degree of (none / 0) (#131)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 02:45:56 AM EST
    comment and conversation was so much better. i think the time allowance helped and geraldo was good at leading and adding to the conversation. as i recall he didn't allow it to go over the top.

    [ Parent ]
    I am so out of the loop (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by dianem on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:13:55 AM EST
    I don't anything about any smear, so I think I'm safe. And when did Geraldo get sensible? I never agree with him on anything. Olbermann has gone psycho, and Geraldo is making sense? What is the world coming to?

    But seriously... I have to comment on Ferraro's op-ed in The Boston Globe. It was beautifully and sensitively written, and it clearly explained something I had not been able to express.

    "Since March, when I was accused of being racist for a statement I made about the influence of blacks on Obama's historic campaign, people have been stopping me to express a common sentiment: If you're white you can't open your mouth without being accused of being racist. They see Obama's playing the race card throughout the campaign and no one calling him for it as frightening. They're not upset with Obama because he's black; they're upset because they don't expect to be treated fairly because they're white. It's not racism that is driving them, it's racial resentment. And that is enforced because they don't believe he understands them and their problems. That when he said in South Carolina after his victory "Our Time Has Come" they believe he is telling them that their time has passed."

    I wish I knew how to reach her about contributing to that study. I'm sure they'll have many big dollar contributors, but I hope they'll open it us a bit - a lot of us would love to be able to say that we had pitched in.

    Go, Gerry (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by Athena on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:24:47 AM EST
    She is seriously leading the Ferraro Democrats - those who would vote for Hillary, but are lost to Obama.  Back on FOX tonight, she is clearly going to play a role all the way forward.

    [ Parent ]
    gerry has aged well also. she looks good (none / 0) (#132)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 02:46:54 AM EST
    and sounds wonderful also.

    [ Parent ]
    Thoughts Tonight (5.00 / 4) (#69)
    by Athena on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 12:21:51 AM EST