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Hillary Obama PA Debate: Live Blog II

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:51:12 PM EST
Tags: Democrats Debate, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama (all tags)
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Update: Comments now closed, new post-debate thread is here .

Hillary Obama PA live thread continued.

If you're not by a tv or on the East Coast, you can watch online here.

Our first live thread is here.

I'll be putting up some polls during the debate to see how you think the candidates and questioners are doing. Big Tent's posts will say BTD and mine will be TL.

The live blog stays below the fold so that it can be a bit wider than the front page allows. Just click on the "There's More" button or bookmark the permalink to go directly to it.

If comments hit 200, we'll start a new one.

< Hillary Obama PA Debate: Live Blog (I) | Post-PA Debate Thread: I >

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    Hillary Obama PA Debate: Live Blog II | 250 comments (250 topical)
    Hillary stands firm on Iraq (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:53:25 PM EST
    Good.

    And she explains it well (none / 0) (#2)
    by Just another person on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:54:44 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    did you see the "ratings"? (none / 0) (#23)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:02:00 PM EST
    The "positive" meter maxed out when Clinton was answering the Iraq questin. Obama never topped 70. I wonder how high she really went?

    [ Parent ]
    She's stressing diplomacy... (none / 0) (#31)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:03:59 PM EST
    ...and multinational talks. Most people support UN-type engagement in the middle east, imo.

    [ Parent ]
    I think Hillary or Barack (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by standingup on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:55:28 PM EST
    needs to slip in a comment that the Democratic nominee will not only face attacks from Republicans in the fall but also face them from a biased media.    

    Two conclusions. (5.00 / 3) (#123)
    by Salo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:20:41 PM EST
    1. Obama's media darling status is over.

    2. Every bit of dirt on him is now open season.

    We have no idea how he will face this new situation because the media deliberatly sat on these stories before today.

    So I'd like to see Iowa revoted, along with an few other places.

    [ Parent ]

    Ouch.n/t (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by magisterludi on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:28:54 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I can't believe it took 50 minutes (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by s5 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:55:33 PM EST
    to get an actual question.

    Her language is more colloquial (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:56:46 PM EST
    IMHO. Obama is rather stiff and academic. He would do himself a favor to be more warm. Just my feeling thus far.

    I always tend to tune out (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:58:56 PM EST
    when he's talking. Maybe it's just me.

    [ Parent ]
    It's not just you. (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by stefystef on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:01:34 PM EST
    I stopped being able to listen to Obama a while back because he sounds the same and he says the same thing.

    You are not alone.

    [ Parent ]

    Its more than that I keep trying to listen (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Salt on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:38:02 PM EST
    And try to hear what ObamaAcolytes hear and admire and I frankly am left wondering why he is so highly though of, is his ok sure, very frustrating but Imp not bitter.  But I also never could see what anyone same media though was great about George Bush.

    She is hands down cleaning his clock, to me their abilities are not comaprable at least to me.

    [ Parent ]

    Rev Jim from Taxi. (none / 0) (#132)
    by Salo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:23:20 PM EST
    play the tapes.

    [ Parent ]
    that's funny (none / 0) (#148)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:27:53 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    No it's not. (none / 0) (#17)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:59:42 PM EST
    He is very difficult to listen to in a debate format.

    [ Parent ]
    I've never been a big fan of his style in speeches (none / 0) (#25)
    by Just another person on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:02:35 PM EST
    either.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama's mannerism (none / 0) (#46)
    by bison on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:07:10 PM EST
    He is stiff.  He needs to relax.

    I glad they are talking about some issue.


    [ Parent ]

    HRC (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:58:07 PM EST
    did very well on that answer.

    Now Obama is saying "me too."

    She also has the time advantage now :) (none / 0) (#13)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:59:05 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Meter goes up (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:58:27 PM EST
    for Clinton finally. Great response to her Iraq discussion.

    way up! (none / 0) (#21)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:00:32 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Turning the tables on Gibson... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:59:39 PM EST
    are those glasses real sir?  Do they really have to sit that low?  Please answer so I can ask you again.

    LOL (none / 0) (#20)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:00:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    She's so smart (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:02:15 PM EST
    I know I'm biased, but she mops the floor with him when it comes to foreign policy.

    Hillary is very smart (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by stefystef on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:05:16 PM EST
    No apologies need.  You are very correct.

    [ Parent ]
    This umbrella idea is interesting (none / 0) (#32)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:04:06 PM EST
    I haven't heard it before.  Have I just not been listening?

    [ Parent ]
    I haven't heard it either (none / 0) (#36)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:04:59 PM EST
    I'm impressed.

    [ Parent ]
    He rambled (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:03:41 PM EST
    on the attack on Israel. His inexperience is showing. While Clinton nails. Massive retaliation. Diplomatic engagement. Awesome. Won't meet with Iranian President but would have a diplomatic process.

    OMG! (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Just another person on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:03:46 PM EST
    I'm loving HRC in her answer about Iran. That is what a president looks like. Obama pales in comparison.

    A little hawkest (none / 0) (#56)
    by bison on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:08:55 PM EST
    I wouldn't go that far.

    [ Parent ]
    She gets it n/t (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:04:36 PM EST


    Iran (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:04:37 PM EST
    Clinton outmetered Obama on Iran by far....

    I like her strength and so did the meter!

    Her answer made me all tingly (none / 0) (#55)
    by Just another person on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:08:54 PM EST
    That was such a strong, tough stance. I loved it!

    [ Parent ]
    audIcity! (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:04:51 PM EST
    lol
    it's actually a great line but McCain bungled it

    I know. He's a dumbo. (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:05:35 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    is out-toughing Obama good politics? (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:04:59 PM EST
    I think it is in PA and the other primary states.

    Yes, that's why (none / 0) (#45)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:06:06 PM EST
    she can beat McCain and Obama can't.

    She is tougher and more experienced.

    [ Parent ]

    She is such a policy geek (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:06:05 PM EST
    that's why I want her to be my President.

    me too (none / 0) (#53)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:08:36 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    strong on policy (none / 0) (#138)
    by noholib on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:24:38 PM EST
    She is so impressive when laying out issues and policies.  What power of analysis and expression.  Boy, can she think through a problem and articulate well-rounded complex solutions.  So very impressive!

    [ Parent ]
    inspiring (none / 0) (#141)
    by noholib on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:25:22 PM EST
    In my last comment, I meant to write "inspiring" in the last sentence, not "impressive" twice.

    [ Parent ]
    We are the tax cutters now. Out Republican the (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:07:22 PM EST
    Republicans. They'll live to regret this.

    Not that I want new taxes but you don't promise. (none / 0) (#54)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:08:45 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    How's Obama going to cut (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:08:16 PM EST
    payroll taxes when social security is in "crisis"?  Not to mention he proposed to raise the cap on FICA.  Duh  :-)

    Oh please. (none / 0) (#58)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:09:20 PM EST
    I just don't think he knows what he's talking about.

    [ Parent ]
    Alternative Minimum Tax (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:09:08 PM EST
    Should be eliminated or grossly adjusted. It is a tax on the middle class, not the rich.

    Raise the cap (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:10:09 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Bigtime (none / 0) (#75)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:12:19 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yes. (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:10:11 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    So glad to not face that this year (none / 0) (#185)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:35:51 PM EST
    Last year, owing to changes in my spouse's pension, we had to take a second mortgage to pay the alternative minimum tax hits.

    You bet it hits the middle class -- and hard.  Now we're having to pay interest on having to pay it.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama looks like a deer in the (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:10:55 PM EST
    headlights on these tax questions - am not sure he gets it in the same way she does, which is why he has to resort to bumper-sticker speak.

    This topic has a high stammer-factor for him.  It's telling.

    Obama starts to make sense to me and then.... (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:11:07 PM EST
    ...he rambles.

    He's not too strong (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Just another person on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:12:17 PM EST
    on his tax policy. I feel like I'm in class and Obama is trying to BS his way out of an answer when he's called on.

    Brag about those Clinton years! Bout time. (5.00 / 6) (#76)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:12:28 PM EST


    Yessss, finally, take it to his comments equating (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:28 PM EST
    the Bushes and Clinton I.

    [ Parent ]
    I LOVE how she is hammering Bush! (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:13:17 PM EST
    Go Hillary!

    Hillary is killing (5.00 / 4) (#79)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:13:28 PM EST
    him now. Notice her confidence. She sounds assured, thoughtful.

    Hillary's shoutout to EGR! (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:13:34 PM EST


    Can anyone watching this objectively (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:13:47 PM EST
    actually think he would be a better president than she would?  I just don't see how.

    I keep hoping he shows me something (none / 0) (#91)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:53 PM EST
    close to equal in case he gets the nom  {sigh}

    [ Parent ]
    I know there are good things about him (none / 0) (#134)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:23:36 PM EST
    maybe he is better for the more distant  future, bringing in youth, etc. so I can understand supporting him.  But on sheer 'fit to be president' grounds, there is just no question.

    [ Parent ]
    It just amazes me (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:05 PM EST
    how she can reel off figures.  She's like a human computer!  

    I will be so sad if she is not our next President.

    I am so proud of her (none / 0) (#112)
    by Just another person on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:19:07 PM EST
    And I'm like a fangurl here - I've been raving to the husband about her great performance.

    [ Parent ]
    Omg... (5.00 / 5) (#89)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:37 PM EST
    her answers on the economy, job growth, and the housing crisis are fantastic.  She and Bill really do share that weird power to captivate when it comes to the economy.  Someone made a comment here, maybe Kathy, a while ago, on how horrid the State of the Union address would be under McCain ("my friends, my friends...").  I relish the prospect of one by Hillary!

    This is a good showing of the major difference (5.00 / 6) (#90)
    by Salt on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:45 PM EST
    between the two, Hillary identifes the issue takes a jab and give a speicfic how she will work on it action, Obama identifes the issue makes an emotional blame bad and then says he will change it, Im a how person.

    Stop it Obama, on SS. Just shut up (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:55 PM EST


    Obama is just defensive on this (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:16:21 PM EST


    Did Obama forget his six shooter? (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:16:42 PM EST
    He can't go wonk hunting without it, can he?

    Excellent answer (5.00 / 4) (#95)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:16:51 PM EST
    we need to look at the revenue before we do anything. As a Wall Street guy, that's the answer I want to hear. Paul Krugman is in heaven with Clinton's remark. So are fiscal conservatives.

    Obama is lost again on the taxes question.

    Look at Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:16:54 PM EST
    She knows he is hanging himself.  Even the TPM boys will boo this.

    I know! (none / 0) (#105)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:17:42 PM EST
    Did you see that expression on her face?  

    [ Parent ]
    She had that "I'm gonna spank you" (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:19:34 PM EST
    Mommy look.

    [ Parent ]
    Here comes the SS crisis via Obama (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:16:58 PM EST
    Ugh.

    WIll the person who kidnapped (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:17:26 PM EST
    Josh Marshall say something about this?

    [ Parent ]
    Probably not but (none / 0) (#135)
    by standingup on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:24:04 PM EST
    I can't wait to read Krugman's next column.  

    [ Parent ]
    Depends on Where you Live (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:17:28 PM EST
    On coasts you might make more 100K and not really have that much.

    Shut up about SS -- she should cream him on it.

    Not Social Security! (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:17:29 PM EST
    Puh lease!

    Uh--he's going to the SocSec in trouble Repub (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:18:15 PM EST
    talking point?

    Why, yes, he is!

    Get to your point, dammit! His longwindedness makes me tired!

    Economy (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:18:33 PM EST
    She is getting huge meter feedback for the economy.

    Q: Why raise the rate at all?  Obama is mumbling about people made money, he is not answering the question and the meter is going up.... answer the question... housing crisis, the meter goes back up.  Apparently dodging questions is wonderful. sigh.

    Clinton's 5 mill jobs and infrastructure going over big too.  Ooh she scored on the payroll tax against Obama.

    Obama tanked when he went after Clinton for Ohio.
    Clinton up on Clinton Admin.  woohoo

    See? Quit attacking the Clinton admin Obama. (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:20:09 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    sorry if you've already answered (none / 0) (#122)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:20:23 PM EST
    but where are you getting the meter reading?

    [ Parent ]
    here (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:22:14 PM EST
    link

    [ Parent ]
    Thank you! (none / 0) (#133)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:23:29 PM EST
    n/t

    [ Parent ]
    Where is this poll meter you speak of? On TV? (none / 0) (#128)
    by Just another person on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:22:12 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I can't see it either (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:24:33 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    "Save Social Security" sez Obama (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:19:25 PM EST
    I could be snide and say "no wonder Ben Nelson endorsed him."

    OHHHHH (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:19:45 PM EST
    she owns the P word!  She just said PROGRESSIVE!  And she was RIGHT!!!

    tomorrow the blogs will be loads of laughs.  That's my prediction.

    Why does he do this SocSec thing??? (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:19:48 PM EST
    It's not in freakin' trouble--does he say this bcz his younger followers believe they won't see any SocSec when they retire? Bcz they've been told that by Repubs for their entire lives!

    Yes, it's a sop to the youth vote (none / 0) (#192)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:38:29 PM EST
    and at my age, closer to McCain's -- it's a reason for older voters to vote for him over Obama.  It could hurt us a lot if he's the nominee, and I just don't think that the youth vote is worth it for the Dems in the long run, losing older voters in the short run.

    [ Parent ]
    Ooooooo (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:20:05 PM EST
    is it just me, or did Obama do badly in that last bit before the break.
    Somebody enlighten me?

    I am listening to it on (none / 0) (#130)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:22:51 PM EST
    the web so I can't see them but he sounds awful. Just lost and rambling. Especially on the economy.

    [ Parent ]
    That was like the NY Giants (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:21:28 PM EST
    playing a Pop Warner football team. It is not fair. She's so much more prepared than he is. He got lost on Iran & Israel and she ran circles around him on the economy.

    There is only one candidate (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:21:41 PM EST
    that has demonstrated a command of the issues.

    He really lost it on (5.00 / 3) (#127)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:22:02 PM EST
    that last answer. She took him to school on the economy and SS.

    The meters showed the undecideds firmly with her.

    I am almost (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:24:35 PM EST
    blubbering with pride at her grasp of issues. And the fact that I feel reduced to blubbering because there is a such smart woman running for POTUS makes me want to blubber more.

    pride (none / 0) (#187)
    by noholib on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:37:12 PM EST
    She is so smart ... why aren't more women standing tall--or call it "blubbering" if you must--with pride, yes even with overweening pride?

    [ Parent ]
    I would be happy to (none / 0) (#230)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:45:49 PM EST
    have a discussion about it next open thread. As it is I live in fear of the OT hammer from Jeralyn or a "clownish" label from BTD. Heh.

    [ Parent ]
    Wow - it's been one year since V-Tech?! (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Just another person on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:25:32 PM EST


    Yeah (none / 0) (#144)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:27:09 PM EST
    I just saw a post about this on a blog today.  

    [ Parent ]
    VTech put together a tremendous website (none / 0) (#210)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:41:45 PM EST
    last year, the links on all that happened -- it was beautiful, getting to see the ceremonies.  And there were memorials today, and I hope they're online soon for me to see again.

    I work on a campus, I have faced threats there, and I felt so much empathy with VTech . . . it all came back to me today.  It could have been any campus, as we do not have the ability to lock all the doors -- there are hundreds of doors on my campus -- as our local grade schools and high schools do.  It could have been any campus, and every one of us knows it.

    So my students and I had a moment of silence again, as we did last year.

    [ Parent ]

    Hmm, Obama thinks there's (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:28:54 PM EST
    an individual right to bear arms.

    I know Jeralyn agrees with that, but I sure don't.

    "Let's talk about guns." Oh, goody. (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:29:41 PM EST
    Actually, let's talk about the economy in death spiral. I just went to Office Max and found them holding a "Going Out of Business" sale.

    Hasnt that been disputed, about his handwriting? (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:29:59 PM EST


    Obama is lying about the questionnaire (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:30:02 PM EST


    Yes, I count three lies so far (none / 0) (#221)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:43:41 PM EST
    and I haven't been able to watch that closely:  Clinton's former pastor (nope, her former church, under the previous pastor), his relationship with Ayers, and now his handwriting on the questionnaire.

    [ Parent ]
    Gun control question--have you changed position, t (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:30:06 PM EST
    to Hillary.

    Hillary talking about Mayor Nutter and Phillie gun violence. As prez she would be good partner for cities like Phillie (cops program, get assault weapons ban back--police being outgunned by the bad guys, give police access to info on gun sales to track illegal guns)--can balance. Respects rights of lawful gun owners, most lawful gun owners want guns out of the wrong hands.  Commonsense approach, right balance.

    To BO--DC ban on handguns in DC. Hasn't looked at briefs, evidence. General impression, 2nd gives individual right. Thinks localities have right to regulate.  So, he's in the indie approach, not the well-regulated militia.  

    Has never favored ban on handguns--saying writing on form wasn't his.  I thought copy had turned up with his writing???

    it was just an affidavit (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:30:08 PM EST
    who's paying attention?
    /snark

    He just lied (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:30:21 PM EST
    He hand writing WAS on that thing.

    Hillary is just much better at answering (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:31:24 PM EST
    these questions.

    I love what she's saying about Bush administration division.

    I Dunno (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:33:23 PM EST
    About the individual right to bear arms, unless you have a militia.

    State rights spoken (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:33:46 PM EST
    by liberals, Hillary has a better position than Republicans, I'm astounded.

    Hillary has astounded me several times (none / 0) (#207)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:41:13 PM EST
    during this campaign and it's never been in a bad way.  She's just the best policy person in the race, on either side.

    [ Parent ]
    Wonky Chick for Pres '08!!!! ;) (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:44:04 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    She's impressive (5.00 / 1) (#234)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:47:25 PM EST
    and has left me no longer undecided

    [ Parent ]
    I liked her last answer (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:34:16 PM EST
    on guns very much.

    KO's Worst Person in the World? ABC. (5.00 / 3) (#180)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:34:48 PM EST
    He will go apesh*t tonight.

    Keith O might say: (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:37:14 PM EST
    " How DARE that woman talk issues?! She is the Worst Person in the Wooooorlddd. " <cue massive eyebrow furrowing>

    [ Parent ]
    The media is doing it's job.. Surprise! (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by BostonIndependent on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:35:04 PM EST
    Overall, I find this debate about the best of the ones I've watched thus far.. Charlie and George are actually doing their jobs quite well. Hillary is winning by quite a margin IMO, but the rest of the media will speak tomorrow and declare Obama the winner hands down -- LOL!!

    Hillary is just so good (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:35:54 PM EST
    on education funding.

    Edu affirmative action (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:37:18 PM EST
    Obama flat at a low level on affirmative discussion.  Clinton spiked on disadvantaged etc.  woohoo!  Invest in our young people!

    I love her approach... (none / 0) (#199)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:39:25 PM EST
    ...about expanding education and pre-K opportunities.

    [ Parent ]
    I bet Obama (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:38:37 PM EST
    misses Russert and Williams.

    Approval meter hits 100% for HRC on gas prices (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by cymro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:39:03 PM EST


    NYC hit 4 bucks today (none / 0) (#218)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:54 PM EST
    was on the news, but I missed the story, just heard the lead in. I don't drive, but it tends to effect the rest of my life . . .

    Obama voted for the Cheney Energy bill.

    [ Parent ]

    HOW CAN ANYBODY... (5.00 / 3) (#197)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:39:03 PM EST
    NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR THIS WOMAN!!! (sorry for shouting)

    If I was a drinker... (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by reynwrap582 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:39:20 PM EST
    I'd make a game out of taking a shot every time she maxed out the graph, and I'd be ridiculously drunk by now...

    Obama's response is falling pretty flat on gas compared to hers.

    "health care policy--nothing gets done" (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by boredmpa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:39:58 PM EST
    Such ridiculous revisionist anti-dem talking points.  What about SCHIP?  What about the strong movement and push for universal care?

    The meter (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:40:00 PM EST
    of undecideds is not Obama's friend tonight.

    I really hope they stream... (none / 0) (#216)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:33 PM EST
    ....the followup with the focus group after the debate ends.

    [ Parent ]
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:40:03 PM EST
    what is with Obama's insistence on hating on all government from the past 30 years, regardless of party (wait, I'm sorry Republicans had the 'ideas')?  He brings it up all the time.  It's simply undeniable that he refuses to create a long term Dem narrative.  Nothing about him annoys me more.  

    Its a Catch-22 for him, I guess (none / 0) (#229)
    by cymro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:45:36 PM EST
    He can't invoke Dem history without praising Bill Clinton (oops, my opponent) or Carter (oops, not widely viewed as a success in office).

    [ Parent ]
    He could do it so differently. (5.00 / 1) (#237)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:51:03 PM EST
    He kneecaps other Dems all the time.  I just do not understand what makes him do it.  It is systematic.  I mean, harking back to GHWB????  The Republican incumbent we whooped, ushering in BC?  That's who you want to idolize?  Give me a break.  Does anyone care about GHWB or think he's plugged in?  Such a joke and it's obvious he doesn't care if we disagree with him on this issue.  It upsets me he's still doing this so late in the game.  

    [ Parent ]
    not with a Clinton in the middle (none / 0) (#232)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:46:43 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Gas Prices (5.00 / 2) (#206)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:40:59 PM EST
    The meter be lovin Clinton on gas prices.  She is off the chart manipulation, windfall profits and highway trust fund.!!!

    Obama's discussion spotty.  Kept flattening out.  Not nearly the response Clinton got.

    Wow BHO, end it with praising Republicans (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:06 PM EST
    that is certainly a unique approach to a Democratic primary debate.  Slam Bill.

    Oh Idiot on Foreign Policy (5.00 / 1) (#213)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:12 PM EST
    Don't praise Republicans on foreign policy now. It feeds lie that dems can't do foreign policy

    She is so enthusiastic talking about her proposals (5.00 / 2) (#214)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:13 PM EST
    I love hearing her tonight--he seems a bit down.

    Ah, on affirmative action-she's taking the "fairness' approach, for everyone who needs it.

    Try to create the conditions to allow everyone to live up to their potential. Healthcare!! Whoohooooo!

    Damn-she's tying the package together!

    Now-gas prices. Told truckers gas pricing must be investigated and Bush will not use the tools government has. Are some traders manipulating the market?

    WINDFALL PROFITS TAX!! Yessssss!!!

    Bush but not Clinton (5.00 / 2) (#215)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:18 PM EST
    His game does not play anymore

    Oh dear (5.00 / 1) (#217)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:52 PM EST
    did Obama have to praise Poppy
    and bring up good ideas from Repubs again?
    Why oh Why?

    Obama just can't say (5.00 / 3) (#219)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:59 PM EST
    anything nice about Bill Clinton and so he praises GHW Bush. Of course, he were to commend Carter right now he would lose the Jewish vote.

    How To Utilize Bush (5.00 / 2) (#220)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:43:03 PM EST
    That is hilarious. The obvious answer to to put him in jail.

    Yes--that was my reaction! (none / 0) (#227)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:45:08 PM EST
    Hillary's expression was priceless.

    [ Parent ]
    she should've said... (none / 0) (#233)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:46:43 PM EST
    ...picking up litter on highways. ;-p

    [ Parent ]
    No (none / 0) (#245)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:52:44 PM EST
    That is way too good for him, besides that is one of his favorite things to do. He loves to clear brush.

    [ Parent ]
    I wish they had said they would (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:43:47 PM EST
    use Bush for clearing brush in their yards.  Of course Obama would have had to say Rezko's yard.

    Hillary has won the debate (5.00 / 2) (#224)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:44:11 PM EST
    so far.
    Love Her (5.00 / 2) (#228)
    by chrisvee on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:45:12 PM EST
    No astute observations from me tonight; just some cheerleading.

    Whenever I see one of these debates, I'm just overwhelmed with her competence, the breadth of her knowledge, and how she approaches policy issues.  I find myself sitting on the edge of my seat saying, 'Yes -- that's exactly what I want in a President -- a practi