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Obama Invokes Annie Oakley

Obama on the campaign trail today:

Shame on her," Obama said, echoing one of Clinton's own atacks on him. "Shame on her, she knows better."

"She’s running around talking about how this is an insult to sportsmen, how she values the Second Amendment, she's talking like she's Annie Oakley! Hillary Clinton's out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday, she's packin' a six shooter! C'mon! She knows better. That's some politics being played by Hillary Clinton. I want to see that picture of her out there in the duck blinds."

Hillary's campaign responds:

Clinton spokesman Phil Singer responded with this statement: "For months, Barack Obama and his campaign have relentlessly attacked Hillary Clinton's character and integrity by using Republican talking points from the 1990s. The shame is his. Sen. Clinton does know better -- she knows better than to condescend and talk down to voters like Senator Obama did."

"Senator Obama’s outburst won't change the fact that he has embraced his characterization of the millions of Americans who live in small towns," he added.

If you get a chance, watch the video of Obama's comments.

Update: Obama doesn't seem to know much about Annie Oakely:

In her life, Annie overcame poverty, mistreatment and physical injury with her determination and strength of character. She played a role in breaking barriers for women with her talent and accomplishments in her sport. She showed great compassion and generosity to orphans, widows and other young women.

Update: Comments now closed, a new and open thread is here.

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  • So the line of defense is (5.00 / 7) (#4)
    by lilburro on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:27:17 PM EST
    not going to be "I'm not an elitist" but rather "we're both elitists!!"  Um...

    Wasn't that the same winning line (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by tree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:49:03 PM EST
    on the C-I-C thing? I'm not ready but neither is she?

    Parent
    yes, talk about dragging everyone down into (5.00 / 1) (#233)
    by kangeroo on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:04:48 PM EST
    the mud with you if you can't win--which obama supporters have accused hillary of, so many times before.  i swear, this mirror-begging concept is like a crystal ball:  if obama or his supporters have speciously accused clinton of it, the odds are that he will do it (or already has).  

    Parent
    His comments are not bitter, sarcastic, belittling (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by TalkRight on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:27:27 PM EST
    because they come from the mouth of Saint Obama..  

    On the video, I watched (5.00 / 5) (#6)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:28:14 PM EST
    He seems so elitist and arrogant while saying that stuff, I don't know about you guys.  But, it does not work for me.  

    Oh, he's likable enough (5.00 / 5) (#212)
    by badger on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:52:03 PM EST
    Correction (5.00 / 3) (#243)
    by blogtopus on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:17:45 PM EST
    There's nothing Obama has done yet that has been right in his eyes. We still give him a chance to correct himself or make adjustments for his silly sayings, but the kid can't help hisself.

    Addendum: There's nothing Obama can do wrong that can't be blamed on Hillary. Count on it.

    Badger: NICE recall of recent history. Good show.

    Parent

    i don't find his tone (none / 0) (#50)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:46:09 PM EST
    particularly arrogant.

    Parent
    would not think you would (none / 0) (#76)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:55:55 PM EST
    Bitter (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by nell on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:13:33 PM EST
    he sounds bitter, bitter, bitter.

    Parent
    He sounds bitter? (5.00 / 1) (#209)
    by sas on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:50:28 PM EST
    Say , did he recently come on upon hard times?

    Lose his job?

    Next thing you know he might become religious.

    Or gun-toting.

    Or xenophobic.

    Not like people unlike him.

    Become immigrant hating.

    Be against trade.

    Parent

    I'll second that-- (none / 0) (#150)
    by Arcadianwind on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:19:33 PM EST
    bitter, bitter, bitter, and clinging to a shallow bitter god!

    Parent
    Sarcasm doesn't become the UP (5.00 / 3) (#237)
    by marklar on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:10:19 PM EST
    This demeanor recalls a rally he did in Missisippi after Hillary suggested he would make a good VP. He launched into his whole Malcolm X Okee-doke/Bamboozled/Hoodwinked routine, and even threw in a back-of-the-bus reference. You didn't see this unless you happened to be watching c-span that day...it got disappeared I guess. Almost seems like he's on the verge of his own "ridin' dirty" moment. "Annie Oakley, up there on her high horse, takin' pot shots." Unity, out...

    Parent
    nothing compares to obama saying (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by athyrio on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:28:28 PM EST
    he will cooperate with Creationists...very scary thought...

    Egads, I hope this isn't how he intends.... (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:58:21 PM EST
    ...to improve science education.

    Parent
    Huh? (none / 0) (#241)
    by jawbone on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:16:23 PM EST
    I missed that--where does he say that? Link? T/u.

    Parent
    As long as we're being nasty (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:29:19 PM EST
    I want to see that picture of her out there in the duck blinds.

    I want to see another picture of Obama bowling.

    So this is the politics of hope, change and unity?

    Yeah, I know, it's politics as usual.  The thing that annoys me is that I know that nobody will accuse Obama of being negative, shrill or desperate for saying "Shame on her!" and calling her Annie Oakley.  

    Two for one! (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:31:46 PM EST
    I want to see that picture of her out there in the duck blinds.

    I want to see another picture of Obama bowling.

    Obama and Clinton duck pin bowling!

    Parent

    Ahhhh....duck pin bowling. (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by madamab on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:34:20 PM EST
    I remember it from my youth. :-)

    Maybe we CAN have a bowl-off for the nomination!

    Parent

    Kerry (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by phillhrrll on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:42:24 PM EST
    in the bunny suit was the worst photo ever of a candidate, Dukakis in the tank seems regal by comparison.

    Parent
    I want to see pics of him with his (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:06:22 PM EST
    poor African relatives. You know the ones! They give him FO cred.

    And we can go on from there . . .

    Parent

    the African relatives (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by bigbay on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:19:16 PM EST
    he let's live in poverty ?

    I'm really surprised no one has called him on that. It should be issue #1 in terms of character.

    I see Mexicans at the Western Union ever Friday sending money home to help their family. Filipino friends who have devoted their lives to bringing everyone over.

    I think Obama sees his African relatives as a good photo op.

    Parent

    I have wondered about that as well (nt) (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:24:27 PM EST
    Have you seen the pictures by the way (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:28:34 PM EST
    They're out there on Republican websites.  We're talking huts, chickens running around, no running water type of environment.  The media silence tells me that it is damaging to him because it's  a serious character issue that works against him.

    Parent
    are you going to really go down this path.. (none / 0) (#180)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:32:52 PM EST
    you Hillary supporters are taking to bashing his relationship with his african family.  To no end.  To no end.  This race is over... because there are just not enough of you out there.

    Parent
    no I asked a question (4.00 / 1) (#191)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:39:29 PM EST
    keep that head in the sand if you want.  The rest of us can take a look at reality.

    Parent
    no, the race is over (none / 0) (#235)
    by Arcadianwind on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:06:13 PM EST
    because of OH-PA-WV-TN-FL-MI-MO, and the people in a few other states.

    Parent
    OMG, noyoudi'int (5.00 / 2) (#217)
    by LatinoVoter on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:54:11 PM EST
    I've been saying this for months on a people of color forum I participate in, which hasn't won me any African-American fans there.

    Every time I hear him say his grandma lives in a tiny hut with no running water and electricity I want to throw up and wish someone in the media would call him out on it.

    My family that lives outside the US would be living in a "tiny hut with no running water or electricity" if it wasn't for my family that lives here. Somehow people who don't have more than H.S educations and have never made more than 60K their whole lives are able to send money back home and build decent housing for my grandparents. Yet an ivy educated, U.S Senator with two best-selling books, a million dollar home just a few miles from me can't afford to build his grandmother at decent home so she doesn't have to live in that "tiny hut."

    Parent

    yep (none / 0) (#226)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:00:30 PM EST
    NYT headlines Obama turns the tables on (none / 0) (#166)
    by thereyougo on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:24:37 PM EST
    Hillary. I just think he's tired of campaigning. Its the longest campaign he's probably had to endure.

    But now we know who the real candidate of change and unity is. Its not Obama.

    Parent

    I agree with CNN's John (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by waldenpond on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:32:00 PM EST
    In John's words he came across as 'sarcastic and angry.'  I wonder if John will automatically lose some air time for looking like he was criticizing Obama.

    John King? (none / 0) (#12)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:32:29 PM EST
    that's my recollection as well (none / 0) (#35)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:43:29 PM EST
    he modified angry to sarcastic.

    Parent
    John King... (none / 0) (#39)
    by white n az on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:43:42 PM EST
    has some title like 'Senior Political Reporter' which probably allows him a lot more latitude in terms of commenting without a script...that is unless there are specific marching orders from above.

    Parent
    Good Grief! (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by madamab on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:33:22 PM EST
    I think we need another bridle on that Unity Pony. It seems to be running off the cliff at top speed.

    Another Attempt to Leverage CDS (5.00 / 5) (#14)
    by BDB on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:33:54 PM EST
    Look, over there, Hillary Clinton - go get her!  

    All because he was either too proud or too politically stupid to simply admit he misspoke and apologize when his comments first became public.  His inability to put this to bed is more worrisome than the original comments.  

    What I wouldn't give to see what their internal polls are showing (if they have them yet) or the Super Delegates are saying to them because Clinton keeps hitting him and he keeps scrambling to get himself out of this mess.  

     

    Well, I'm a Phoebe Ann Mosely (5.00 / 9) (#18)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:37:12 PM EST
    fan, so now Obama has just complimented Clinton -- but he is so ahistorical sometimes, and no doubt knows little of women's history.

    Annie was a remarkable woman, really up from poverty, and she didn't whine about it.  She just continued to work hard, breaking records well into her 60s, and who does that remind us of, hmmm?

    And Annie was a philanthropist for women's rights and many other causes, including the support of many young women whose needs she put before her own.  Still, the tabloid types attempted to smear her -- but found nothing.

    Oh, I think I could script this one for Clinton.  Have fun, Hill!


    The ignorant perception of Annie (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:41:30 PM EST
    is what he portrayed.  Sort of a gun toting backwards woman.  He stepped in this one.  

    Parent
    The Gift That Keeps Giving... (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by michitucky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:43:40 PM EST
    She needs to embrace the comparison...Exploit it for all it's worth!!!

    Parent
    Which brings him right back to where (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Anne on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:47:03 PM EST
    this all started - with the tee-hee-ing and tittering of the moneyed elite in a mansion in San Francisco.

    And he keeps wavering between apologizing and defending; we may need scorecards to figure out which of his many positions is winning.

    Parent

    She can add some "Annie Oakley" songs (5.00 / 1) (#248)
    by jawbone on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:23:35 PM EST
    to their rally play list!

    I love that someone mentioned "Anything you can do I can do better."

    Just too right!

    Ya know, I actually think Obama did Hillary a favor by briging up Annie Oakley.  If she had ever made such a comparison, the MCM would have done it's usual hatchet job on her, saying she  was bragging or exaggerating her childhood gun lessons.

    Now, however, it's hers to use--Run with it, Hill!

    Parent

    thanks for that (5.00 / 0) (#48)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:45:59 PM EST
    I'm adding it to the post.

    Parent
    Except (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:01:34 PM EST
    He was really saying that she is no Annie Oakley, but a fake hunter pandering to hunters.

    Not sure how this will play out, but when Kerry tried to pander to the hunting crowd, it backfired badly.

    But of course IOKIYAR, Cheney is loved by hunters, even if he shoots people in the face. Go Figure.

    Parent

    But (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by nell on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:15:48 PM EST
    if you read what she actually said, you will understand that she pointed out that her father took her hunting as a little girl so she UNDERSTANDS that hunting is a family thing and not an I-hate-the-world-because-I-am-poor thing. She made it clear that she is not a hunter, but that she had gone hunting as a child.

    Parent
    Nice Turn Around (1.00 / 0) (#170)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:26:29 PM EST
    "To be frank, Hillary Clinton's stories about her adventures with guns don't exactly pass the smell test," the vice president told host Tim Russert. "If she really wants to show that she knows how to handle a rifle, there's an easy way to do that: meet me in the woods.""Dick Cheney and Hillary in the woods with guns?" President Clinton said at a campaign stop in Pittsburgh. "Boy, I like the sound of that."

    But shortly after the vice president issued his challenge, Sen. Clinton seemed to back off from her earlier claims of hunting experience, saying that she had "misspoke" about her hunting exploits as a child.

    "I fired a gun once, but I didn't like it, and I didn't recoil," she said.


    link

    Parent
    You're seriously quoting from a piece (none / 0) (#201)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:46:21 PM EST
    on HuffPo from a comedian.  When was this supposed Cheney exchange on MTP?  Not today for sure.


    Parent
    It Was Pretty Funny (1.00 / 0) (#223)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:57:18 PM EST
    If you ask me.

    Parent
    Yes Today (none / 0) (#238)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:12:32 PM EST
    But not on MTP. It was an exclusive HuffPo satire.

    Parent
    Looks like sound judgement to me (none / 0) (#260)
    by herb the verb on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:08:55 AM EST
    Isn't being asked to hunt with Dick Cheney kind of like being asked to "attend a barbecue with Hannibal Lector at his remote estate", or "fabricate intricate personal gift boxes with Ted Kozinski"?


    Parent
    Mission UnAccomplished (none / 0) (#134)
    by Regency on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:15:23 PM EST
    He failed clearly.

    Parent
    Uh, he said she acts like (none / 0) (#169)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:26:27 PM EST
    she's Annie Oakley, and I guess it could be parsed your way, but it really takes some pretzeling to do so.  Take some ibuprophen first, okay?

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#174)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:28:57 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton's out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday, she's packin' a six shooter! C'mon! She knows better.

    aka ersatz Annie Oakley

    Parent

    I love it! (-: (none / 0) (#176)
    by thereyougo on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:29:38 PM EST
    when they couldn't shout Hillary out, they give these types of compliments. Ouch, bet that hurt !

    Hillary say "thank you Sen. Obama."

    When it hits them they'll do a DÓ-H! Home Simpson style.

    she turned the table on them!  too funny

    Parent

    Totally unecessary (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:39:13 PM EST
    Why is Obama even bothering to respond?  The Math guarantees he will be the nominee.  BTD says he will be the nominee.  Can't he just go back to Chicago and relax while the media goes back to asking Hillary to drop out of the race?

    This lashing out is unbecoming of a President.  It's not even close to a good look for him.

    He sounds like a bratty teenager (none / 0) (#25)
    by rooge04 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:41:01 PM EST
    when he reacts this way.

    Parent
    Totally unnecesary (none / 0) (#71)
    by delacarpa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:54:09 PM EST
    You think! LOL The superdelegates are scrathing their heads why he did this since he was ahead. Go Figure says volumes.

    Parent
    Obama the attack dog (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by delacarpa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:40:26 PM EST
    He has no choice, he knows whats ahead of him in PA, Indi, and possibly NC.

    strange behavior for a frontrunner (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:46:45 PM EST
    But I think you're right.  Must be frustrating for him.  I can imagine how badly he wants to finish this off in Pennsylvania.  He may do it with the help of the media, but it would be wiser for him to start thinking about earning this nomination from here on out instead of just relying on the media to bail him out.

    Parent
    strange behavior for a frontrunner (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by delacarpa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:57:38 PM EST
    Not going to finish it off at this rate. Will go to Purto Rica now. Obama and supporters have a few surprises in store for them as to how savy the people are in the upcoming states.

    Parent
    And is it just me, or is he (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by Anne on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:41:08 PM EST
    starting to sound, well, a little shrill?  A tad panicked?  Can pouting and foot stomping be far behind?

    I can't believe anyone thinks this man is ready to be president.

    It comes (5.00 / 5) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:43:36 PM EST
    off as panicked to me. Besides, does he not know of any other woman who has shot a gun in the last 100 years? Annie Oakley? LOL!

    Parent
    And there's so much parody potential there... (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:48:11 PM EST
    ...in the previous thread Kathy hilariously reminded us of Doris Day in Annie get your gun.

    Parent
    Okay here's a perfect scene from... (5.00 / 9) (#66)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:52:42 PM EST
    Annie get your gun with Betty Hutton and Howard Keel.

    Yes I can. Yes I can. Yes I can.

    Parent

    Awesome. So on topic!! (5.00 / 0) (#118)
    by ghost2 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:10:36 PM EST
    great.  thanks.

    Parent
    divine (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by boredmpa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:35:15 PM EST
    That would make the best background for a clinton/obama montage

    Parent
    Wasn't Doris Day. It was Betty Hutton. I saw it (none / 0) (#63)
    by derridog on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:52:06 PM EST
    on my sixth birthday.

    Parent
    Yes I mispoke...lol...... (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:56:24 PM EST
    ....or was I misconstrued? Actually Doris Day was Calamity Jane.

    Parent
    Don't make me sing (none / 0) (#67)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:52:47 PM EST
    Trust me...you wouldn't like it if I sung.

    Parent
    Let's all sing the chorus -- (5.00 / 4) (#159)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:22:32 PM EST
    Anything you can do, Senator Obama, she can do better.

    Yes, she can.

    Oh, did he pick the perfect woman in history as a comparate?  I can just see the buttons and bumper stickers that the Clinton staffers can hand out now.

    Parent

    I Support Annie Oakley (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by LHinSeattle on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:43:24 PM EST
    Calamity Jane! (none / 0) (#69)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:53:34 PM EST
    I just have to say the Doris Day movie to (none / 0) (#220)
    by gish720 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:55:05 PM EST
    which Kathy referred is Calamity Jane...I'm a terrible movie junkie! Still I know what she meant.

    Parent
    Periodically, when he's feeling (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by rooge04 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:45:00 PM EST
    down, Obama launches attacks as a way to boost his appeal.

    Parent
    better yet... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by white n az on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:41:27 PM EST
    let's see Obama knock down a few Boilermakers with the boys...

    ;-)

    Hillary's new ad - Jewel (You Tube Link)

    I was at that event and those (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:49:02 PM EST
    two elderly ladies were just great.

    Parent
    that (none / 0) (#216)
    by sas on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:54:04 PM EST
    was fantastic

    Parent
    not a good edit (none / 0) (#218)
    by boredmpa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:54:58 PM EST
    not to be anal, but someone will jump on the america at the "bottom of the mountain" part where hillary is shown nodding along.  Yes, she was nodding the whole time cause that's generally what people do when someone is speaking fairly slow or telling a personal story, but I woulda cut from a different angle.

    Parent
    OMG! I'd hoped that would become an ad! (none / 0) (#250)
    by jawbone on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:26:32 PM EST
    I watched video of that event and I nearly cried, but I couldn't stop smiling. It is so feel good and so strong.

    Thanks for posting that link.

    Parent

    Shame on (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Gossipqueen on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:42:48 PM EST
    You obama, shame on you!

    "She knows better" (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:43:47 PM EST
    I don't know about you but that expression, there is something about it.  

    Obama knows what everyone else knows (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:48:12 PM EST
    Condescescion, lecturing, preaching, elitism... Let's play word association SAT style!

    Parent
    It's (none / 0) (#154)
    by nell on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:20:35 PM EST
    just like likeable enough...makes my skin crawl.

    Parent
    It's something you say (none / 0) (#203)
    by kayla on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:47:00 PM EST
    to a small child that has misbehaved.

    Parent
    Those Darn Clinton Supporters (5.00 / 6) (#49)
    by tdraicer on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:46:03 PM EST
    >Nobody seems to be concerned about this now except desperate Clinton supporters,

    Ah yes, the awful Clinton supporters. Who are only half the Democratic Party. A half that Obama will need in the fall if he gets the nomination. And that his online supporters are doing everything they can to ensure that they don't come out and vote for him. (But if Obama loses to McCain they will blame everyone but themselves-or Obama.)

    It will be all Hillary's fault and they (5.00 / 4) (#86)
    by derridog on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:00:41 PM EST
    will back that up by calling her (and us) more unprintable names. It's all they've got.

    Parent
    I'M DONE. (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by kenosharick on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:47:40 PM EST
    Last straw. I will not vote for him in Nov. First the vile treatment from his supporters (my comments, no bad language or name calling, are deleted at americabog as they support Clinton)then the rev. wright issue(among others), now his contempt and viciousness towards Hillary are the last straw. I vote in Wis- a state he will need in the Fall; sorry I and many others I have talked to will sit it out.

    You and me in Milwaukee, Kenosha (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:39:25 PM EST
    as tonight's "faith forum" set him back even more with me.  I keep being told to think of SCOTUS, but I would have to see McCain giving worse answers on the relevant issues than Obama did tonight.  

    And I don't think that McCain would, and that's how bad Obama is.  Those were not answers that accorded with the Democratic platform.  Once again, what I heard tonight was from a third-party candidate simply using the Democratic party to win . . . and then its principles will be out the window.

    Parent

    i hear you. i just came to that (5.00 / 1) (#246)
    by kangeroo on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:21:05 PM EST
    conclusion myself today, for a long list of reasons.  

    now unlike obamabots, i'm open to (logic- and fact- based) argument and persuasion, but it's gonna be a tough sell because i arrived at this conclusion after resolving to grit my teeth and bear it to pick the "D."  well i'm starting to think that D stands for Duped (or Deceived) and i want none of it.  i no longer harbor any delusions that obama, once elected, would be ANY different from mccain re: scotus.

    even as a democrat who's never voted for a republican (nor ever thought i would), i give up compiling the (endless) excuses and rationalizations and trying to believe he is a democrat for any other reason than that it was his most viable ticket to political fame and fortune.  same goes for his religion.

    Parent

    I came... (none / 0) (#249)
    by alexei on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:24:02 PM EST
    to that conclusion over MI and FL.  I will write-in Hillary and work against all Obama enablers and that means you Leahy and Welch.  

    Parent
    Count me along (none / 0) (#213)
    by LHinSeattle on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:52:25 PM EST
    Our prospective nominee (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Coldblue on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:55:43 PM EST
    sigh

    I don't think we have a freaking chance in November.

    I do---GO HILLARY! (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:20:31 PM EST
    The next debate should be good. He has had trouble containing his temper and ego already, and now the pressure is way up. It may get ugly.

    Parent
    Remember that U.S. gymnastics coach in the 90s? (none / 0) (#123)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:12:32 PM EST
    "You can do it, Hillary! You can dewww it."

    Also, Rob Schneider in his movie cameos does a good version of this.

    Parent

    How can he be so arrogant (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Trickster on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:56:21 PM EST
    PRECISELY when he is on public trial for . . . arrogance?

    God help us, he is such an awful candidate.  Yes, he's good with words, and yes he looks fantastic in a suit, but is there anything else at all?

    I used to think he would've made an excellent candidate if he had seasoned himself another 10-12 years first, but now I'm having some pretty serious questions about that.  I think he's just not cut out for this stuff.

    not cut out? (none / 0) (#85)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:00:37 PM EST
    He has one arguably one of the most amazing campaigns in modern political history, like it or not.  He has changed the once inevitable Mrs. Clinton presidency to one that is not.  He is beating (beat) such a supposedly seasoned, experienced pol... but he's not cut out.  "not cut out" Obama is going to be your next presdient.

    Parent
    Well.. about that... (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:13:22 PM EST
    He has one arguably one of the most amazing campaigns in modern political history

    Yes, all noise, flash, rhetoric and very little substance. He has no policies that he can articulate himself, or answer questions about. His resume is padded beyond belief, which has been publicly admitted by the padder, Emil Jones. And he has the gall to castigate the American voter for not seeing things his way. He is not going to be the next President. IF he gets the nomination, he will be dissected by the GOP.

    And since he has said he will not run again if he doesn't win this time, we won't be hearing from him again. Unless he changes his mind, of course. But my instinct tells me that when the GOP gets through with him he won't have a political career anymore. He can make a living being a motivational speaker. Heh.

    Parent

    He may be our next President (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:18:28 PM EST
    but the fact that he's run a good campaign (with great help from the MSM) does not guarantee he'll be a good President.  Campaigning is one thing; governing is quite another.  Obama, in his political career, has done far more of the former than of the latter.

    Parent
    it only looks amazing through the media filter (none / 0) (#128)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:13:31 PM EST
    If he doesn't get the nomination when it's all said and done, it will look even less amazing.

    Parent
    Ya know.... (none / 0) (#144)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:18:18 PM EST
    "not cut out" Obama is going to be your next presdient.

    I don't find that the least bit reassuring.

    Parent

    Bush had a good campaign -- actually, two (none / 0) (#198)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:43:53 PM EST
    so that argument does not impress me in the least.

    But from what I heard tonight, the idea of Obama as the next president does get a reaction out of me -- as he sounds too much like Bush, the guy we got.

    Parent

    Someone on one of the Sunday talk shows (none / 0) (#258)
    by jawbone on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:35:10 PM EST
    said that about saying that Obama running a good campaign is the best measure of who would be a good president.

    It was pointed out how well BushBoy's campaigns were run--and how well that worked out for the nation.

    In both cases, it seems to me, BushBoy and Obama were/are fairly unknown politically and therefore the campaign managers could create an image almost out of whole cloth. For both, the MCM (Mainstream Corporate Media) did or have done very little vetting of the two candidates, giving the public very little on which to judge the actual political actions of the two.

    I don't get CNN so missed tonight's program.  Maybe there will be posts and video clips.  

    Parent

    he can look for the picture of her in a duck blind (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by TheRefugee on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:01:16 PM EST
    I already have the picture of him in Cowboy hat playing farmer Barry.  I already have the picture of the sportsman, the everyman, trying to bowl.  I already know he has exactly three views on guns...ban em, they're good, they're great.  I already have the picture on the tractor.  I already have the picture of the hardhat.  I already have the statement, "I like thai food".  I already have, "I feel at home in midwestern towns because they eat the same food....as what I grew up on (when he was a toddler) he actually grew up on hoi polloi and whatever they eat in Indonesia.  

    He is the gift that keeps on giving and I likes me my presents.  Keep em comin Barry.

    oh no (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Nasarius on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:05:37 PM EST
    I thought you might be joking, but there he is, sitting on a tractor for no apparent reason.

    Parent
    you ever notice that FARM bills (5.00 / 2) (#257)
    by TheRefugee on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:33:29 PM EST
    are haggled over in Congress but not RANCH bills?  Farming is the generic term for the raising or growing of all foodstocks.

    But here's a funny thing.  I grew up in a farming family.  All of my friends families were/are farmers.  Some were mixed operations, potatoes and cattle, corn and pigs...we all wear cowboy hats...isn't that weird?  When someone asks us about what we do?  We're farmers.  We think of ranchers as rich people down in Texas with 8000 acres of grassland and cattle and horses only.  You ever heard of those rural ranchers of Iowa?  or Kansas?  or Colorado?  Or do hear of those family farms?  Those industrial farms?

    You are a dumb###.  A person isn't judged to be a farmer or a rancher by the hat they where.  Billy Bob in a baseball cap is no different than the Refugee in a cowboy hat..although I didn't want a farmers life so I became something else...but I still have a cowboy hat...and I still have baseball caps.  

    Parent

    Is it possible? (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by nellre on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:01:27 PM EST
    Is it possible Obama doesn't understand why what he said was offensive? It would explain his responses... and those of his devoted following.
    It would prove he is out of touch too.

    We have a winner! (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by phat on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:24:33 PM EST
    You pretty much just nailed that. Out of touch is an understatement.

    phat

    Parent

    Newkindapolitics? (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by OxyCon on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:02:00 PM EST
    Words, just words.
    Obama is revealing his true self.
    The myth that David Axelrove created is no more.
    The arrogant, egomaniacal, snobbish, petulant Obama is now on display.
    Auch audacity.

    And please (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by rooge04 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:09:40 PM EST
    find the facts. His mother was single for 2 years of his life. They were far from poor.  And they were far from the average American. Most average Americans don't have wealthy oil exec stepdads nor do they go to prep schools NOR do they spend four years of their childhood in foreign nations. That is very particularly upper-middle to wealthy class behavior. The fact that Obama and his supporters (ie YOU) don't see that is part of the problem.

    Traveling overseas, going to prep school and then Harvard is not something any average American usually gets to do.  He had a very elite childhood. Including those two long years his mother was raising him alone.

    huh? (none / 0) (#155)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:21:03 PM EST
    spend four years of their childhood in foreign nations
     

    his parents moved there?

    very particularly upper-middle to wealthy class behavior.

    is this the new argument?  he's from a wealthy family?


    going to prep school

    on a scholarship for god's sake.

    Harvard

    so now you one can't go to Harvard? Hell, i'd love to.  I'm going to make the wild guess that his parent's economic standing did push his application into the accepted pile.  

    Parent

    Hillary is playing this right (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by IKE on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:18:35 PM EST
    I just hope she doesn't go out there now and put on a silly overall and play dress up like John Kerry.

    Clinton family members too smart for that (none / 0) (#162)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:23:36 PM EST
    too much savvy, too much experience.  That is part of the reason why I haven't counted Hillary out yet.  With Bill and Chelsea by her side, that's a great trio. I think they know how to win.

    Parent
    Gotta get my 2 cents in here (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:19:14 PM EST
    before I give up for the nite--from too little news to too much:

    "She's running around talking about how this is an insult to sportsmen, how she values the Second Amendment, she's talking like she's Annie Oakley...."

    Does anyone besides me (I may be all alone in this) think that amounts to another of his sexist remarks?  HRC is a woman, so of course, she is just 'running around talking."  I swear--even if my kid does move to Canada if McSame wins, I don't see how I can vote for this prating, prejudiced parrot.

    I said the same thing (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:23:53 PM EST
    somewhere on this thread - I've lost track now, with all the comments.  Annie Oakley was an amazing woman, but I doubt Obama knows that.  I think he was trying to make Hillary look like a little girl dressed up in a cowgirl suit.  Typical condescending b.s. that we've come to expect from him.

    Parent
    no. (none / 0) (#161)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:23:26 PM EST
    Annie Oakley is a famous gun toting woman.  It is quite possibly the easiest comparison for anything related to woman and guns.  nothing sexist about it.  maybe he should have said Dick Cheney instead (just for laughs) but he's not that quick.

    Parent
    Obama's revisionist history (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by Grey on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:24:46 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton's out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday, she's packin' a six shooter! C'mon! She knows better. That's some politics being played by Hillary Clinton. I want to see that picture of her out there in the duck blinds."

    Aside from the Obama's obvious bittercakes disguised as humor - Clinton specifically said that she was taught how to shoot when she was a kid, but that she was not a hunter and never had been.  Other than that, she said she gets the 2nd Amendment and people have the right to own guns.

    And from this, Obama extrapolated that Clinton talks as though she were "on the duck blind every Sunday"?

    Clinton: "I'm not a hunter."
    Obama: "I want to see that picture of her out there in the duck blinds."

    But she just said!

    Good point (none / 0) (#183)
    by frankly0 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:34:39 PM EST
    You'd think that the media would be all over this, showing how Obama has in his mockery completely distorted what Hillary has said.

    This would give them a great opportunity to demonstrate their capacity for even-handedness.

    Ha Ha, of course. Thought I'd take a moment for a laugh.

    Parent

    Amazing! (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by felizarte on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:40:58 PM EST
    He insults many people with his "bitter" characterization and Clinton should be the one shamed?!!!

    I agree:  he is panicked almost tantrum like.  At least he is revealing more of his self behind the mask.

    Maybe Not So Many (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:46:38 PM EST
    As you would think. Here is the opinion of one of the bitter people that Obama was talking about:

    "I don't think he put his brain in gear before he engaged his mouth," Little said. "But he apologized. ... I think he has the right ideas, and I like hearing him talk. I put him in sort of the same mold as the Kennedys, JFK and Bobby."

    [snip]

    Still, in more than a dozen interviews here, even conservative Republicans couldn't muster the sort of outrage over Obama's remarks that Clinton backers were expressing Sunday.

    link

    Teflon for sure

    Parent

    We'll See (none / 0) (#228)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:03:20 PM EST
    I think BTD called it correctly. Obama is the media darling and telfon coated. It may have been better, as BTD suggested, for Clinton to let McCain dish on Obama's gaffe.

    Clinton's comments may backfire on this one, if Little is truly representative of the god fearing gun toting bitter ones.

    Parent

    Of course (none / 0) (#240)
    by tree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:16:15 PM EST
    Little appears to be an Obama voter, so he wasn't the one being dissed by Obama. He only dissed the ones who aren't buying his line.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#256)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:32:21 PM EST
    But, clearly one of the people that Obama was talking about. Anyway, we'll see how it turns out. One thing that seems true is that bitter is not so off base.  Clinton's remarks on the other hand may be seen as opportunistic pandering and backfire, because many do not see Obama as an elitist.

    Parent
    Six Shooters In a Duck Blind? (5.00 / 5) (#199)
    by BDB on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:44:22 PM EST
    WTF is Obama talking about?  Nobody uses six shooters in a duck blind.  

    Annie Oakley isn't the only think he doesn't know very much about.

    I have to say, given all the support he's gotten from the Blogger Boyz, I'm not surprised Obama finally turned into a concern troll.  

    And trying to deflect criticism by accusing your opponent of playing politics?  Hmm, I wonder where Obama learned that trick.  What was that about right-wing talking points again, Barack?

    Obama's a real charming guy. I understand (5.00 / 1) (#234)
    by tigercourse on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:05:39 PM EST
    that he's trying (and probably doing a good job of it) to change the subject from his having called rural Americans a bunch of bitter racists.

    I'm gonna find it pretty funny to watch Obama try to belittle the guy who spent 5 years getting tortured.

    Any foot you can put in your mouth. . . (4.66 / 3) (#1)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:25:07 PM EST
    I can put two of!

    no more showtunes! (none / 0) (#45)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:45:41 PM EST
    I thought Windy City was bad!  Though, Calamity Jane might've had it right when she said, "I got a strange feelin' somebody's bein' hustled."  MAN, Obama looks furious on that video.  He goes from looking like he's trash talking on the basketball court to just looking plain mean.

    Honestly, someone please let the Clinton campaign know you don't use six shooters to hunt ducks.  Talk about a mixed hunting metaphor.  Someone needs to bring up that questionnaire his staff answered that he didn't see even though his handwriting is on the form.  You know, the one where he doesn't talk about his position on gun rights.

    Parent

    Hillary asked for it. (1.00 / 1) (#84)
    by lyzurgyk on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:00:28 PM EST

    She had no good reason to bring up personal gun stories.   It's a shame she went that route and gave Obama an easy target.   Dumb and predictable.

    agreed (none / 0) (#90)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:01:42 PM EST
    .

    Parent
    Of course, everything Obama does is (5.00 / 0) (#99)
    by derridog on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:05:00 PM EST
    all Hillary's fault. We know that. We need a new acronym:  IAHF
    That can go with WORM.

    Parent
    I already coined it! (none / 0) (#112)
    by madamab on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:07:57 PM EST
    IACF (It's all Clinton's Fault).

    We can blame Bill too, since as every Obama supporter knows, Bill was a terrible president and life was awful during those bleak years of peace and prosperity. ;-)

    Parent

    Yeah, having all that surplus (none / 0) (#140)
    by derridog on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:17:21 PM EST
    money in the treasury was a real drag, and having prosperity and jobs without inflation was truly terrible. How could we not have noticed? Also, peace is highly overrated.  My son was in the army in Germany, being a peacekeeper in Bosnia during the Clinton administration. It wasn't until Bush was elected that he had the opportunity to leave his wife (who had two months earlier almost died in childbirth) and infant and 2 1/2 year old to go spend a year in Iraq.  I just don't know how we missed the idea that the Bush and Clinton years were exactly the same.

    Parent
    That gun story (none / 0) (#101)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:05:42 PM EST
    was out in an ad that was released last week.  I saw it on Taylor Marsh or No Quarter.  She was recalling learning to shoot with her grandfather.  It touched me because my grandfather taught me to shoot, too.  He wanted me to be able to protect myself.

    But, these are just facts.  I know y'all prefer just words.

    Parent

    I don't doubt it was true. (none / 0) (#130)
    by lyzurgyk on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:13:47 PM EST

    But it was unnecessary and an obvious target for ridicule.

    The facts on the ground are what matters and the facts on the ground dictate against Hillary going the "personal experience" route.   She's got the Tusla tarmac incident around her neck.

    Parent

    Oh I love it, I just love it..... (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:21:05 PM EST
    Hillary's What Not to Do List. Too bad she doesn't listen. If only she would listen, Obama wouldn't have to be such an ass.

    Parent
    She can't talk about her upbringing (5.00 / 2) (#239)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:13:42 PM EST
    which is what she was recalling in the ad . . . but he can tell more different stories about his upbringing than we can track?  From street urchin to prep school kid, from raised by a single mom to raised by grandparents, he's got more stories all over the place about his childhood.  But she gets none.

    Now, those are interesting rules you got there, Lyzzie.  So let's play by them, and please don't tell us a thing about yourself or share your opinions, thankyouverymuch.

    Parent

    Good to know you believe Hillary omniscient (none / 0) (#152)
    by davnee on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:20:10 PM EST
    Since she knew days ahead of "the gaffe" to recount her shooting experience to lay the groundwork to show up the one.  Wait a minute, shouldn't we be racing to elect someone with powers to see the future?!

    Parent
    Oh come on. (none / 0) (#179)
    by lyzurgyk on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:32:00 PM EST

    Whenever she first used it, it was a mistake to use it again after the Obama gaffe.   Why open herself up to "Hillie Oakley" mockery?   Nobody is voting for her as a gun enthusiast.

    You don't need to be a gun nut to see how ignorant Obama's remark was.

    Parent

    She used it this week? (none / 0) (#195)
    by kredwyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:41:45 PM EST
    I recall her mentioning her father grew up in Scranton. But I don't recall the hunting as a kid thing as part of it.

    Do you have the quote/article link?

    Parent

    Here you go. (none / 0) (#245)
    by lyzurgyk on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:20:00 PM EST

    My dad taught me how to shoot.

    I didn't say she claimed hunting experience.   But Hillary and guns is not a winning combination.

    Parent

    Question: have you met anyone who (none / 0) (#158)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:21:44 PM EST
    is talking about Tuzla, in real life?


    Parent
    Yes. (none / 0) (#168)
    by lyzurgyk on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:25:39 PM EST

    My mother and sister are hardcore Hillary supporters and they are baffled by why she exaggerated her Bosnia experiences.

    Parent
    Where I grew up every kid was taught (none / 0) (#151)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:19:42 PM EST
    how to use weapons.  It was part of a way of life in  rural TX.

    Parent
    Hmmm.... (none / 0) (#171)
    by Alec82 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:28:11 PM EST
    ...it was common, but not universal, in rural Michigan.

    Parent
    HAHAHAHAHAHA (none / 0) (#96)
    by madamab on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:03:08 PM EST
    oh, that was good.

    Thanks for the laugh.

    Parent

    I've never touched a gun in my life ... (none / 0) (#116)
    by lyzurgyk on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:10:12 PM EST

    ... and I still saw that Obama's comment was asinine.  

    Totally unnecessary for Hillary to claim gun credentials.  

    Parent

    She is not claiming them, (none / 0) (#132)
    by madamab on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:14:40 PM EST
    she has them.

    If my opponent demeaned me and my family by saying we were clinging to our guns out of bitterness, I would talk about my gun experience too.

    Parent

    It was a tactical error. (1.00 / 0) (#160)
    by lyzurgyk on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:22:50 PM EST
    Even Hillary is acknowledging that.

    After a weekend spent making direct appeals to gun owners and church goers, Hillary Clinton said Sunday a query about the last time she fired a gun or attended church services "is not a relevant question in this debate" over Barack Obama's recent comments on small town Americans.

    Don't give Obama an easy irrelevant way out of this discussion.

    Parent

    That's reading a whole lot into those comments. (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:33:51 PM EST
    She said that at the "compassion forum" by the way and it would have been most inappropriate IMHO if she had answered a question about when she last shot a gun in a forum that was supposed to be about faith. Plus it was kind of "not classy" of the CNN interrogators to hit her up with a gotcha question in that instance. Again IMHO.

    Parent
    Misread (5.00 / 1) (#208)
    by Davidson on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:49:53 PM EST
    The reason why Obama is rightfully getting slammed is because he ridiculed people's beliefs.  Clinton talking about her grandfather or father teaching her how to shoot, which was about passing on tradition, will not let Obama out of this jam.  There are plenty of people who are taught to fire guns and never become a good shot.  Proficiency in shooting is not what this is about: it's about family and tradition--principles.

    Parent
    he didn't ridicule.. (none / 0) (#214)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:52:44 PM EST
    he stated.

    Parent
    He didn't ridicule us in the heartland? (none / 0) (#244)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:18:22 PM EST
    How 'bout you let us be the judges of that.

    He did.  And that you don't think he did tells me you wouldn't like it here in the heartland, either, so do us a favor and don't even think about it.  Our "Midwestern nice" is being too sorely tested lately.

    Parent

    Um, she didn't say she has (none / 0) (#177)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:30:17 PM EST
    fired a gun or hunted recently, did she?
    I don't see the backtracking.

    Parent
    She said it's irrelevant. (none / 0) (#185)
    by lyzurgyk on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:35:06 PM EST

    It's irrelevant whether she fired a gun last week and it's irrelevant whether she fired a rifle as a child in Scranton.

    Don't introduce irrelevant material into the fight when you have your opponent on the ropes.

    Parent

    Are you saying Obama is on (none / 0) (#188)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:38:36 PM EST
    the ropes? I think he is close.

    Parent
    On the ropes? (none / 0) (#224)
    by lyzurgyk on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:58:53 PM EST

    I think the gaffe Obama just made would have taken down nine out of ten candidates.   But with the lead he's got, the media/blog support and his cult-like following I have a hard time seeing Hillary winning the nomination.

    I'm staying behind Hillary and not ready to coronate Obama but I have to admit he offers many unique qualities as a candidate.   I respect him.

    Parent

    oh I think both (none / 0) (#2)
    by TruthMatters on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:25:52 PM EST
    sides have made the Republicans VERY proud at times.

    Karl Rove must be laughing his ass off watching these 2 campaigns and these 2 sides of supporters go to civil war. Both sides complain 'oh, our candidate has been treated unfairly, its all the other sides fault they are just blind or naive or kool-aid drinkers and can't see it or won't admit it.

    The republicans have thought us well.


    Unfair treatment? (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by kredwyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:53:33 PM EST
    Inadvertently (??) he just complimented HRC. Ms. Oakley is...well...a fascinating role model for women history. I suspect that she was as fascinating character as the WASPs I had the opportunity to meet a few years back.

    Parent
    i'm going to go on a limb and assume (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:56:27 PM EST
    that Obama used the comparison in regards to Hillary's gun toting abilities.  nothing else.  

    Parent
    as I said... (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by kredwyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:07:37 PM EST
    it was inadvertent.

    The funny part is that her father did grow up in a pretty rural area part of PA (I've driven through that part of the state since I was like 5...it's rural/industrial...and was pretty depressed for a very long time) and she probably actually knows how to shoot a gun.

    If he's trying to gain political points by swiping at her with an Annie Oakley reference, he missed his mark.

    Parent

    Kredwyn, here's one for you (5.00 / 1) (#215)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:53:16 PM EST
    that I found just a few days ago to use in class about WWII -- a great little short of about six minutes about the WASPs, if so sad about their deliberate omission from military records and history for too long.

    Also on Youtube are some wonderful interviews with former WASPs, like the women you met.  One in my area managed, unlike so many, to finally find a way to fly again after the war and set world aviation records!

    Parent

    I met a few of them (none / 0) (#221)
    by kredwyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:56:35 PM EST
    during the preview of some film or other. The school I did my doctoral work at is the national archive for WASP stuff.

    They were an amazing group of women.

    There was also a presentation on the women's astronaut team that was drummed out of service in the 50/60s.

    Parent

    Thanks -- now I'm reminded to go find (none / 0) (#229)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:03:54 PM EST
    some goodies on those early women astronaut wannabes; I remember reading about that. . . .

    Parent
    Wow.. that comes across very badly (none / 0) (#9)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:29:38 PM EST
    to me, and seems incredibly stupid, as well.
    He's opening the door to questions about HIS knowledge of guns. You don't make fun of someone doing something that you can't do at all.

    No, no, no (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by angie on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:42:48 PM EST
    watch the video, he says that no one has done more for gun rights then Barrack Obama (or words to that effect).  
    I'm not kidding.

    Parent
    Come on and be real (none / 0) (#15)
    by AdrianLesher on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:34:10 PM EST
    Clinton's gun talk was transparent pandering meant to take advantage of the "bitter" controversy. Obama had a little (appropriate) fun with it.

    I suppose Clintonites think he should respect Clinton's theatrical beer and whiskey swilling too.

    Funny thing is (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by rooge04 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:39:58 PM EST
    that no matter how hard he tries Obama will never win over blue collar workers. Because of his inanity, stupid statements and defenses such as yours. Funny because watching Hillary be comfortable and happy around blue collar PA workers having a beer comes off well. Sorry your candidate keeps fixing his foot in mouth problem by sticking his other one right in after it.  Foolish.  Now he comes off angry that the media won't let his dumb comments go.  First, act arrogant and condescend. Don't apologize. Attack Hillary in anger for your own stupidity. Yep, that's about per usual for him.

    Parent
    As a construction worker (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by phillhrrll on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:49:46 PM EST
    tradesman for 20 + years and speaking in generalities, Obama is a wuss and couldn't beat his way out of a wet paper bag.

    Hillary's tenacity diminishes him even more, this is possibly a sexist statement, if you're thin skinned, but it's honest.

    Parent

    It's funny also because he (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by rooge04 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:06:20 PM EST
    keeps trying to denigrate her in a female way. And it's not working. SO instead the opposite happens. He calls her a girl but it just looks like that girl is kicking his butt.

    Parent
    so are you saying (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by badu on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:41:49 PM EST
    that Hillary panders, but Obama doesn't?  What's the difference between her talking about being taught by her father to shoot a gun and his bowling in a white shirt and tie?  What do you call that. Just one of the many double standards in this campaign.

    Parent
    they both do (none / 0) (#61)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:50:39 PM EST
    .

    Parent
    Appropriate? (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by Trickster on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:43:40 PM EST
    Ridicule of an opponent is always questionable.  When you're in a race that is bitter and personal at times, your own ass is in a tight and deep crack, and your opponent has just harshly criticized you, the idea that the ridicule was "all in good fun" can be taken right off the table.

    It was an attack, plain and simple.  And as an attack, it should have hewed a bit closer to things Clinton had actually said, as opposed to taking some fairly low-key comments and turning them into something extreme.

    It's not as if Hillary said that she kilt her a bar when she was three.

    Parent

    Or (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by madamab on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:45:58 PM EST
    like Mitt Romney who was hunting "varmints." Puh-leeeeez. Now THAT was ridiculous.

    Parent
    I think he would be wise to either (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:44:20 PM EST
    apologize for his elitist mistake or STFU about it.

    Parent
    I swear (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Step Beyond on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:52:34 PM EST
    Each campaign needs a STFU officer. This need to keep clarifying and justifying mistakes drives me insane. And I don't have insanity insurance.

    Parent
    Those STFU officers (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:05:59 PM EST
    would be awful busy.  I don't have insanity insurance either.  Maybe it'll be in somebody's UHC plan  :-)


    Parent
    No...not true.. (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:54:39 PM EST
    Clinton's gun talk was transparent pandering

    Newsflash for you.. in rural areas most people do teach their kids the basics of shooting, for safety reasons. The idea is not to turn the kids into "Annie Oakleys" but to make sure that if they ever do have to handle a gun, they won't shoot off their own foot, or shoot someone accidentally. Even people who don't hunt who live in the country keep a gun for rabid animals. They do come around sometimes, and need to be shot when they do. So, even people who don't spend time in duck blinds but live in the country have guns, and teach their kids the basics for safety reasons. All Hillary was doing was saying that she got the basic course in gun handling from her grandpa. Which any country grandpa would give his kids. It may seem like pandering to city dwellers, but to country people it just SOP and not really worthy of adverse comment.

    Parent
    objectively.... (1.00 / 1) (#80)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:57:25 PM EST
    Hillary was pandering.  As was Obama re: the bowling.  

    Your defense is desperate.

    Parent

    objective coming from you is laughable... (5.00 / 3) (#103)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:05:59 PM EST
    ...and before you say anything back to me about my objectivity, trust me I conceded a long time ago that I simply lack the ability to be objective when it comes to Barack Obama. He works my last nerve.

    Parent
    Let me add this.. (5.00 / 3) (#146)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:18:29 PM EST
    If Obama had had any gun training at all, he would know that shooting oneself in the foot repeatedly is the sign of a complete amateur. Same goes in politics, by the way. Heh.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Davidson on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:28:56 PM EST
    1. Her family is from Scranton.  It is common for parents to teach their children how to shoot guns.

    2. She's mentioned that bit in PA about her father teaching her how to fire a gun before his SF comments out.  Why not mention them now?

    Clinton has maintained her close ties to PA throughout her life.  Check out the NYT video of her PA roots.  How can it be pandering if it's true and she's speaking of her family roots and traditions, which she's obviously proud of?

    Parent
    no (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by boredmpa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:49:29 PM EST
    Hillary clearly qualified her gun experience to make sure it didn't look like pandering.  It's what I would have done--im a SF fag from NC that knows how to shoot a gun too and understands the difference between city gun issues and hunting.  

    She did not "pander."

    And that is the opposite of the Obama campaign's usual behavior (single mother themes, hard to pay for their kids school, defended gun owners).  

    Parent

    Yes, some arrogant and elitist (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by waldenpond on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:02:48 PM EST
    persons in the media and elsewhere may make fun of having a beer or a shot cause thas' sumpin' onee us bakwards lukin' foke be doin.'   She has several times been photographed with a beer (gasp).  Some people just need to get over some things.

    Now let me lean back in my torn barcalounger and crack another one open.

    Parent

    I can vouch that, years ago (none / 0) (#225)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:59:07 PM EST
    when she came through our area, she stopped to meet with workers who offered her a beer -- and you can bet that she took it.  And no one was surprised; she's from the Midwest.

    But now it looks odd to people?  Shows how little they know.  As the commercial here that she grew up with along the Great Lakes, too, used to say . . . "from the land of sky blue waters, comes the beer refreshing."  

    (Well, it was a commercial for a Minnesota beer, in the land of a thousand little lakes, but it became almost a theme song in the lands of the Great Lakes as well.)

    Parent

    I liked the beer and whiskey swilling! (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by lyzurgyk on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:48:05 PM EST
     
    I don't want another President who doesn't drink.

    And if you doubt Hillary's beer drinking credentials ...

    Parent

    Respect a score of 37? (none / 0) (#230)
    by felizarte on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:04:12 PM EST
    I hope you are joking.

    Parent
    I agree with Obama (none / 0) (#23)
    by aequitas on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:40:32 PM EST
    Of all the ridiculous takeaways from Obama's remarks, this one about guns takes the cake.  Although I also get a howl from the allegation that he disrespects religion.  

    Nobody seems to be concerned about this now except desperate Clinton supporters, but it does serve well to demonstrate how far the Clinton campaign has sunk.

    No he respects (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by rooge04 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:42:13 PM EST
    his OWN religion.  Just doesn't care for the religion of those low info PA voters that carry their guns to church while hating immigrants. Their religion he derides to a bunch of billionaires.

    Parent
    what then do you feel he is (none / 0) (#62)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:51:27 PM EST
    disrespecting...?

    Parent
    Not much in fun Stalingrad, no* (none / 0) (#24)
    by tdraicer on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:40:51 PM EST
    >Obama had a little (appropriate) fun with it.

    He didn't come across as someone having fun. But then considering the self-inflicted wounds he is suffering from lately, he probably isn't having much fun.

      *Just a Python reference, not an attempt to paint Obama as a Nazi.

    Sorry, PL, no one has done more than me.... (none / 0) (#42)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:44:37 PM EST


    Obama's Lessons to be Learned.... (none / 0) (#43)
    by SunnyLC on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:44:52 PM EST
    http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/
    \
    Obama's Lessons to be Learned: Odinga Yields in Kenya, Positions Himself for Next Election

    Posted on April 13, 2008 by GRL

    In a previous post, I discussed the link between Obama and Raila Odinga and the almost eerie demands by Odinga for a 50-50 split of cabinet posts in Kenya. It now appears that a compromise has been worked out...

    According to the BBC, a power-sharing agreement was reached on Saturday. Odinga, apparently, is more willing to compromise than his cousin (?) Obama.

    MORE.....

    We know he didn't mean to demean (none / 0) (#56)
    by nellre on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:48:45 PM EST
    We know he didn't mean to demean PA voters, but he sure as hell is trying to demean HRC. He thinks his gaffe, and HRC's calling him on it, is an opportunity to ridicule her.
    It's possibly sexist but for certain it's a huge turn off. His arrogance was palpable.

    He didn't mean to get caught on tape... (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by ineedalife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:00:09 PM EST
    demeaning PA voters.

    Fixed your typo.

    Parent

    It was a gaffe (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by nellre on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:30:26 PM EST
    Not a confession.
    We don't need to be like the Obama converts and see through jaundiced eyes.
    Of course he didn't mean to demean voters. He's a politician!
    It seems to me though, that we might have caught a window into his true self, because I don't think he truly understands why what he said was offensive.

    Parent
    Hillary should challenge him to (none / 0) (#57)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:48:55 PM EST
    a shoot-off.. but with B-B guns, because Obama hasn't had gun training.

    I would watch that (none / 0) (#72)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:54:29 PM EST
    on Pay-Per-View!

    My money's on Hil.

    Parent

    I think (none / 0) (#97)
    by phillhrrll on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:03:18 PM EST
    it's unsettling when the Hillary appears tougher than Obama just by her being comfortable in her own skin. She seems like she'd be more imposing on the world stage, Obama just comes across as weak and insipid, not an iota of inspiration.

    Parent
    So you think you might vote for her in the (none / 0) (#108)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:07:14 PM EST
    fall?
    She drinks shots of whiskey, you know.. that would come in handy with lots of world leaders.

    Parent
    alas (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Nasarius on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:12:12 PM EST
    Too bad Boris Yeltsin died last year.

    Parent
    She's never (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by phillhrrll on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:13:30 PM EST
    ridiculed my beliefs, Obama has. Denigrating the voters you need is a poor way to win an election. I very well may, she doesn't get ruffled, very important as president.

    Parent
    listen (none / 0) (#119)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:10:47 PM EST
    you don't drink shots and beer on an amateur basis.  You can either handle it or you can't, and I'm sure with the press corps watching, if she had been a first-timer, we'd still be reading about it.

    Parent
    Amen to that (none / 0) (#124)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:12:46 PM EST
    in a non-religious way of course  :-)

    Parent
    Not a good speech (none / 0) (#70)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:53:36 PM EST
    He's repeating the accusations by Clinton and McCain and therefore reinforcing them in people's minds.  He keeps repeating "Out of touch? Elitist?"  Seems like a boneheaded move to me.  Shouldn't he be trying to move beyond that and show, by actions rather than words, that he can relate to regular people?

    And the Annie Oakley thing reeked of misogyny, to me at least.  It was like he was mocking the idea that a woman would know how to use a gun.

    Unfortunately (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by madamab on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:02:03 PM EST
    I think it did come off that way.

    Is there any way we can get him to shut up? He is on my last nerve with all the nastiness, the lying and the elitist snobbery. HRC is right, he is absolutely ruining the Democratic Party's chances in November.

    Parent

    And I know this is a nitpick (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by tree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:07:47 PM EST
    but if you are trying to claim that you are not out of touch with rural voters, you don't talk about someone being "ON" the duck blind(its "in" or "behind" , and you don't imply that people shoot ducks with a six shooter.

    I feel its OK to be nitpicky about this because he wasn't making a policy statement or anything, he was trying to ridicule Clinton. Instead he just made it obvious that he doesn't know anything about duck hunting OR Annie Oakley. Or bowling. If you are going to pander, its best if you know what you are doing.

    Parent

    I am sure that people who know (none / 0) (#121)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:11:54 PM EST
    about hunting (not me) noticed what you mentioned.
    In comparison, Hillary talks about playing pinochle at night in rural PA. Who the heck would know that?? I wouldn't---but apparently she is spot on.

    Parent
    He just cannot let anything go (none / 0) (#95)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:02:57 PM EST
    Nothing.  Not a dang thing.  He has to keep hammering and hammering until he feels like he has won, and when he can't win, he has to have an excuse that blames someone other than himself--in this case, gun-toting, Bible lovin' hillbillies who don't like him because he's a "47 year old black man" and who vote against their interests because they are bitter.  Nevermind that they keep voting democrat.  Let's not forget the context of the billionaire's forum: he was explaining why he lost OH and would lose PA.  Not his fault!

    MAN, I wish I could find that clip where he was arguing with a reporter and would not let it go. Exact same behavior we see here.

    Parent

    His fatal character flaw (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:08:34 PM EST
    is his thin-skinned egotism.  Hillary is the opposite - she takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.
    She doesn't take anything personally - I truly believe, that even now she doesn't hold a grudge against Obama (she's a far better person than I am).

    Obama can never be wrong.  I saw this comment posted on a blog today - probably No Quarter or Taylor Marsh, I'm not sure - somebody said, about the blogger boyz, "They bruise easier than a banana!"  Obama is the same way.

    You're absolutely right: he can't let anything go, no matter how petty.  He always has to be right.  

    We don't need another man like that in the White House.

    Parent

    a few weeks ago, someone at (none / 0) (#117)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:10:24 PM EST
    Daily Obama posted a diary about how go players are better at war than chess players. Um, whatever..
    I have a point. I am a 6 dan go player (in fact I am trying to solve go problems right now), and I can tell you that the object of go is to win, and a win by a single point is a sign of good style.
    It is NOT in the spirit of go  to try to utterly destroy your opponent when you do not have to, which Obama seems intent to do. He should be able to coast to a slim victory in delegates, but that is not enough for him.

    Parent
    what the heck is go? (none / 0) (#125)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:13:08 PM EST
    asks the philistine.

    Someone said it a while back in terms that I could understand: she is playing chess, he is playing checkers.

    Parent

    It's a game you should not begin (none / 0) (#142)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:17:59 PM EST
    in your last year of graduate school.

    Parent
    Go (none / 0) (#143)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:18:01 PM EST
    Is the game that has replaced chess as a sign of elite intellectual high status. When a computer beat a grand master at chess it lost its cache. A beginner go player can beat a computer. Go is too tough for computers to master.

    Parent
    cachet (none / 0) (#189)
    by Nasarius on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:38:49 PM EST
    While we're being snobs.

    I'm already terrible at chess. I learned the basics of Go last year, so now I can lost spectacularly at that too.

    Parent

    Thanks for the correction (none / 0) (#236)
    by tree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:08:51 PM EST
    I was trying to figure out why a computer would loose its cache when it won at chess. Artificial intelligence with an incontinence problem?

    Parent
    Go (none / 0) (#157)
    by kredwyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:21:12 PM EST
    I saw a comment on another site (none / 0) (#109)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:07:27 PM EST
    that said about the PA gaffe, "Well, he just lost the Bubba vote!!" The Annie Oakley crack probably cost him the vote of every female gun owner. And there are a lot of them. So he will end up with most of the AA vote, some of the youth vote and not much else. Nope, not electable, thanks to his own big mouth and his innate arrogance.

    The man just doesn't seem to understand that people don't like being told that they are too stupid to know what is good for them and that they should vote for him so he can think for them. He is an embarrassment to the Democratic Party. And the sooner he goes down the pike the better for all of us.

    Parent

    He may not be an elitist (none / 0) (#98)
    by Democratic Cat on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:03:52 PM EST
    But he plays one on tv. Seriously, I think he wants to do good in this world. But coming from a disadvantaged background or serving the public does not mean you can't be an elitist.  

    you mean his high school? (none / 0) (#104)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:06:06 PM EST
    he got a scholarship for god sake.

    you guys are getting unbelievable.

    I hope you noticed (none / 0) (#175)
    by Democratic Cat on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:29:20 PM EST
    TL deleted the comment you objected to, and other offensive ones as well. The moderators here are pretty good, I hope you will agree. (This will probably get deleted for being off-topic, but it's my last of the night...)

    Parent
    i did. (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:34:59 PM EST
    appreciated and good for the threads.  thx

    Parent
    I read that, but then I read (none / 0) (#247)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:21:58 PM EST
    that his mother or parents, I forget which, pulled him out because of the cost and put him in public school?  Seriously, I'm trying to figure out so many contradictory reports -- so as you seem to know more than the media idiots who keep misreporting on so much of this: Why the switch?  Did he have a four-year scholarship promised but then pulled?  He was a good student, so I can't figure out why the scholarship would have ended.

    Parent
    You don't have to be elite to become an elitist (none / 0) (#107)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:07:01 PM EST
    Do you think everyone who is an elitist today is born with some kind of elite DNA and into wealthy circumstances?

    It's all a state of mind.  There are humble billionaires and snobby welfare recipients.

    Having lived in L.A. for several years, this dichotomy became glaringly obvious when I'd see waiters driving around in late model Mercedes Benz and BMV cars while earning lower middle class salaries.  On the other end of the spectrum you might see a millionaire riding around in a bike or making small talk with valets, maids, etc unlike others who would consider it beneath them.

    Obama was playing to his crowd at that event in San Francisco.  He knows how to tweak his message like many politicians.  I don't find it bizarre, but it is disappointing coming from someone who claims to be an agent of change.

    I'm enjoying (none / 0) (#120)
    by Matt v on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:11:42 PM EST

     Hillary's demonstration that all ducks aren't shot from blinds.  That she chose to use a decoy of the elitist rich for the demonstration speaks well of her actual compassion for what Republicans and their whining enablers regard as the average, sitting duck.

    Look at the track record? (none / 0) (#136)
    by davnee on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:16:03 PM EST
    He wants to compare records on working for the ordinary American?  Is this guy for real?  His arrogance on that video is breathtaking.  He truly has no clue what he said was a gaffe.  Every day is a new revelation as to just how unworthy of POTUS he truly is.  There is not even a kernel of truth to his image as the one.  Usually there is at least a kernel.

    However much (none / 0) (#139)
    by frankly0 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:16:41 PM EST
    Obama may mock Hillary's talk about using a gun when she was a child, the reality, AFAIK, is that she never went beyond the claim that her family instructed her at a very young age how to handle a gun.

    She was simply claiming that, because of her family history, she understands and has basic respect for the gun culture.

    And it is precisely respect for that culture that Obama simply cannot genuinely claim after his only too revealing little speech in SF.

    How about this answer: (none / 0) (#182)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:34:03 PM EST
    " I would challenge Senator Obama to a friendly shooting match, but after seeing  how he bowls, I think something else might be in order: shots drinking contest!!!

    Annie's got a gun... (none / 0) (#219)
    by Leisa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:54:58 PM EST
    just had to say it...  :)

    What is she gonna do?  Win the White House too!

    I am going OT, I know (none / 0) (#231)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:04:20 PM EST
    but while I was posting here, someone on the closed thread asked a question I can answer:

    Are there any Christians here?

    Why, yes, I went to Sunday School today.  And I believe in evolution and separation of church and state and that some of the Book is campfire myth and that we are given intelligence and the ability to learn God's (there's that word!) will for ourselves--but maybe not for someone else.  There are also the damnable facts that I am a southerner AND a Baptist of the old sort (not Southern Baptist).

    So: I was totally comfortable with Hillary's answers and very disappointed and uneasy with Obama's rambles.  

    Presby here (none / 0) (#255)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:31:25 PM EST
    and yep, she did well with the tenets we share in the mainline Protestant faiths.  At least northern Methodism; I know someone raised Southern Methodist, and it sounds a bit different from Midwestern-style Protestantism.  Heavens, he grew up in an area where they don't have basements, as we do in tornado alley.  How you can have a church supper that's not in a church basement, complete with kitchen capable of handling a couple of dozen Prots passing dishes, I dunno. :-)

    Obama, though, I couldn't follow sometimes.  The answers don't seem to come as easily to him, but that could be the difference between his being raised without a faith and coming to it later in life vs. Clinton being raised by a Sunday School teacher, going to church summer camps, etc.

    I wanted questions to him about black liberation theology.  But then, Campbell Brown does not seem to be the sort that could phrase such a question.

    Parent

    Comments now closed (none / 0) (#252)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:28:51 PM EST
    A Late Night open thread is here.

    Talk Left feeds the beast... (none / 0) (#261)
    by ctrenta on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:39:19 AM EST
    ... ah, more of the he-said, she-said meaningless coverage of the 2008 election. Since when did Obama's "PA voters are bitter" and Hillary's Trina Bachtel story become such big news? Why is this more important than Bush & Cheney's admission that they signed off on illegal interogation methods re: torture? Didn't people see the ABC News interview???? Since when did PA voter's bitterness become more important to cover in the MSM and blogs, when blogs were supposed to be an antidote to that? Here's the big question:

    How many diaries have we seen on the Talk Left front page re: the Obama/Clinton tit for tat speeches versus Bush/Cheney's admission on torture. I'll tell you how many I saw on the TL front page: one.

    Since when did outrage over Obama's/Clinton's comments become more important than a story like this? It's more than just Talk Left. That doesn't mean Talk Left should follow the herd.

    Let's see more front page diaries on the latest developments of this shocking story. Whadda you say y'all?

    obama (none / 0) (#262)
    by isaac on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:47:09 AM EST
    knows about as much about duck hunting as he does bowling: and he'd probably hit about as many ducks with a six shooter as he did pins