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Post-Faith Forum Thead: What Did You Think?

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:41:46 PM EST
Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, 2008 (all tags)
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Reactions to the Faith forum?

Here comes the media spin.

Some of my final thoughts. The forum was held at a religious university. That probably affected the audience reaction. He wasn't speaking to the voting public, but to the religious voters.

He did another hyperbole. Now, not only is he the one who has done the most for gays and the most against anti-semitism, he's the one who's done the most to reach out to churches.

He didn't answer several questions directly, such as whether life begins at conception and whether he supports people making end of life decisions. On the latter, he restricted his answer to whether people should be able to use painkillers if that might hasten their demise.

Update: Comments now closed.

< CNN Faith Forum, Live Blog II | Obama Invokes Annie Oakley >

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    Post-Faith Forum Thead: What Did You Think? | 201 comments (201 topical)
    Jeralyn, I don't know if I can be objective.... (5.00 / 6) (#1)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:43:52 PM EST
    ..anymore. I just have to acknowledge this of myself. I do not get Barack Obama and the favoritism that he is getting in his campaign makes me furious.

    I agree... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:45:30 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I agree too (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:46:58 PM EST
    I'm not watching the coverage by the talking heads, but I just read online that the CNN pundits said that Obama was much more "fluent".  Uh...uh...uh...what?!

    [ Parent ]
    Well, b***sh** does flow (none / 0) (#158)
    by lambert on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:38:45 PM EST
    That must be what they meant.

    Unless it's impacted in some way, but I would say that more a McCain thing.

    [ Parent ]

    it leaves me (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:47:06 PM EST
    scratching my head. I'm too cyncial to be furious, but I don't get it at all.

    [ Parent ]
    In the words of Elvis Costello (5.00 / 7) (#15)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:49:37 PM EST
    I used to be disgusted and now I try to be amused.

    [ Parent ]
    Faith In.... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Athena on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:55:42 PM EST
    I'm finding the use of the word "faith" almost ironic here - it appears that greater faith is invested in Obama than any of the deities supposedly under discussion.


    [ Parent ]
    its hard to be amused (5.00 / 5) (#34)
    by TheRefugee on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:55:49 PM EST
    when one person gets asked questions with no correct answers and the other gets asked about aids, poverty and torture.

    [ Parent ]
    Next question on the list (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by Practically Lactating on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:58:29 PM EST
    was how he felt about child molesters, but they ran out of time.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah (none / 0) (#48)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:59:23 PM EST
    I try to be amused, but I have yet to reach that state of detachment.  I aspire to it, but I have a tendency to be "bitter".  

    At least they didn't ask, "Senator Obama, why does God want you to be President?" or "Senator Obama, do you believe that Hillary Clinton is the Antichrist?"

    [ Parent ]

    Isn't Elvis a Hillary fan? (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by Inky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:08:22 PM EST
    I remember that he sang "Happy Birthday, Mrs. President" to her on her 60th birthday party. At the time I was a huge Edwards supporter and down on Hillary, and the fact that the voice of my generation was singing to her made me feel somehow old. But now that I've rediscovered my own affection for Hillary, I'm proud that Mr. Costello was, as always, so astute.

    [ Parent ]
    I think he was there (none / 0) (#112)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:19:49 PM EST
    I was invited to the party but I didn't have the bucks to cough up at the time.

    [ Parent ]
    welcome (none / 0) (#118)
    by 1jpb on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:21:50 PM EST
    You were one of my favorite people, before I was exiled from myDD.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks! (none / 0) (#167)
    by Inky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:44:03 PM EST
    That means a lot to me that you said that, as I've just decided to leave that forum myself -- I realized that the back and forth between candidate supporters there only leads to increased mutual antagonism. And I have to say that you were also my favorite commenter from "the other side". I can't believe that you were formally exiled from there, but I guess these things happen, and it's probably a badge of honor. Even though you and I have had our disagreements, you have always been remarkably civil and engaging, which is the only way that people can come together in the end. And I truly respect the fact that are commenting on a site where your side is outnumbered.

    [ Parent ]
    What? (none / 0) (#170)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:44:49 PM EST
    Is there sarcasm here I'm missing?  Elvis died in 1977...

    [ Parent ]
    Elvis Costello (none / 0) (#177)
    by white n az on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:51:02 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Sorry about that ... (none / 0) (#199)
    by Inky on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:07:50 PM EST
    I'm a big fan of Elvis Presley too, but meant I Elvis Costello, who was one of my first musical loves.

    [ Parent ]
    It's a corporate decision. The cable (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:59:17 PM EST
    networks did the same for Bush.


    [ Parent ]
    and let no one be mistaken (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:01:31 PM EST
    McCain is the media darling of choice in the end.  Perhaps they want to serve him up an inexperienced opponent for a reason, right?

    [ Parent ]
    Well, Hillary sure sounds like she (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:09:41 PM EST
    is hitting all the right notes these days, and Obama, worse than ever. The voters can't be fooled ALL the time.

    [ Parent ]
    I expected more from CNN (5.00 / 4) (#133)
    by williams on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:28:22 PM EST
    Once again, Hillary got the more difficult and probing questions while Obama got questions focusing straight on his policy views. I came away from the forum still not having a clue what makes Obama tick.  There was no revelation of his true beliefs and what is at his moral core.  Then, to add insult to injury, CNN showcases Obama shaking hands and signing autographs while Roland Martin, an Obama supporter, says how much more "fluent" Obama was than Clinton, and how SHE focused on policy.  I just can't believe this.  It was an advertisement for Obama.  I'm very disappointed in the lack of neutrality by CNN.

    [ Parent ]
    Tedious (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by oldpro on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:44:50 PM EST
    and somehow...revolting.

    I thought Hillary was quite smooth and (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by athyrio on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:47:06 PM EST
    geniune in her answers even the "gotcha" questions....Obama seems halting and not sure and keeps using the buzz words trying to convince folks he is a Christian so it doesnt ring believeable to me...but then again I don't like the man so my answer is colored by that...

    I thought (5.00 / 8) (#12)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:48:12 PM EST
    Obama seemed slick and Hillary seemed very genuine. CNN has an Obama supporter on, a Bush supporter and a debate moderator. Where's a Hillary supporter?

    CNN is not even trying to hide it anymore (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:49:57 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I agree (5.00 / 5) (#22)
    by Grey on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:51:52 PM EST
    I'll add that I thought the questions Clinton had to answer seemed to require far more soul-searching, whereas his could do with a watered-down version of his stump speeches.


    [ Parent ]
    Agree... (5.00 / 7) (#45)
    by alexei on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:58:50 PM EST
    and you know I am a secular humanist but I thought her answers were quite interesting, sincere and thoughtful.

    I couldn't listen to Obama - that is how it is now; just like with GW, who I also cannot listen to or I will be shouting and throwing stuff at the TV.  From the comments, I know I would have, particularly on the abortion issue, so it is better that I didn't watch.

    [ Parent ]

    If Obama is the next President (5.00 / 10) (#60)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:02:42 PM EST
    I'm pretty sure I'll be cursing at the TV set during  press conferences and SOTU addresses just like I do with Bush.  I've gone from being neutral to having a visceral dislike of the man that has nothing to do with my admiration for Hillary.

    [ Parent ]
    I wish I knew how the guest (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:06:35 PM EST
    questions were apportioned. I'll have to go back and look, but your comment reminds me that her questions were more traditionally feminine heart and soul related, and his were to do with doing things out in the world.  Seemed a little like the deck was stacked.

    [ Parent ]
    I take it back (5.00 / 5) (#76)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:07:56 PM EST
    No way I am going to go back through that and review.  Life is too short.

    [ Parent ]
    Well... (none / 0) (#36)
    by Alec82 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:56:10 PM EST
    ...that could also be perceived as giving her an opportunity to open up to people who view her as too cold and impersonable.  Nothing struck me as biased in the questioning. Talking heads may be another matter.  

    [ Parent ]
    Bias (5.00 / 5) (#80)
    by Grey on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:08:55 PM EST
    I didn't think the questions were biased or easier, but simply different in nature.

    The forum was about faith, and the moderators stressed the questions would be personally probing and difficult to answer, which I actually don't think is an opportunity for anyone "to open up."  That is not how soul-searching works, in my opinion, and certainly not when the topic is faith.

    On that specific score, it seemed to me that the questions directed at Sen. Clinton were, in fact, personally probing, while those asked of Sen. Obama seemed to be more policy-oriented.

    So, no, it's not a matter of bias, but it's a matter of different kinds of questions.

    [ Parent ]

    "Here comes the media spin" (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:48:29 PM EST
    Barack Obama's historic appearance on CNN's Compassion forum drew loud applause as millions of Americans watched from their homes, inspired by his candid words and poignant moments of truth-telling.  The performance renewed calls from some in the Democratic Party for Hillary Clinton to drop out of the race.

    "He put Rev. Wright behind him, he explained to Pennsylvanians why they should vote for him, he confronted Hillary on her lies.  He passed the final test.  I think it's time for the party to come together," said a prominent left wing blogger from the Berkley area, on condition of anonymity.

    Oh, God (!) (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:38:57 PM EST
    Are you kidding?  It was obvious that the forum was arranged to be a sort of stump speech, with all the offered cues.  I checked out reactions on the net--found little that made sense and much that reflected already-made choices.  I thought Hillary did better--but the audience was all Obama.  But then, the audience sort of self-chose itself since people like me would not attend such a thing.  I admit--I turned to the forum to watch him make a mess of speaking.  Everyone says what a terrific speaker he is--no way, in my humble opinion, at least not extemporaniously.

    [ Parent ]
    yea, that was a parody (none / 0) (#163)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:40:40 PM EST
    The media hasn't written that article, yet.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh. (none / 0) (#115)
    by lansing quaker on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:20:51 PM EST
    Blogger from Berkley.

    I'll say it without saying it.

    [ Parent ]

    funny (none / 0) (#201)
    by bigbay on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:11:04 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    working with churches (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:49:21 PM EST
    in the shadow of steel plants....but did not pay attention to the affordable housing that fell apart.  Ahhhh!

    No one since Jesus has done more (5.00 / 7) (#31)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:55:17 PM EST
    working with churches in the shadow of steel plants :-)

    [ Parent ]
    are you discounting his work? (none / 0) (#38)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:56:36 PM EST
    just wondering.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes... (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:57:25 PM EST
    I am, I discount his work.  

    [ Parent ]
    Since there isn't much (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by rooge04 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:04:22 PM EST
    work to discount it's pretty easy.  But I'm sure he's done the most out of anyone to make it seem like he did. Of that I am sure.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes and making fun of his (5.00 / 5) (#52)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:00:33 PM EST
    conceit in making statements such as:  No one has done more to combat anti-semitism, for gay rights and on and on ad-nauseum.  Conceited and stupid statements, a two-fer every time.


    [ Parent ]
    Analysts say he talked more about issues. (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by Teresa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:49:46 PM EST
    Global warming, etc. Think it had something to do with the questions?

    Watch out, that's how it starts. (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:49:47 PM EST


    save me from that hell (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by TheRefugee on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:52:57 PM EST
    calling Jack Kevorkian, Kevorkian to room nine please, potential Obama supporter needs to gently into that good night.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't like the whole idea (5.00 / 6) (#21)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:51:28 PM EST
    of them having to parade their faith out to be judged.  That is why it was hard for me to take it very seriously.  I just reject the premise of the conversation.  They both did fine under the circumstances.

    Obama did go out of his way to distance himself further from Wright, which was interesting. Wonder why he felt the need to do that.

    you're right (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:58:47 PM EST
    tonight he made a point of saying people have mistakenly called Wright his mentor or spiritual advisor and said he's just his pastor.

    [ Parent ]
    Not according to his own book. (5.00 / 4) (#57)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:02:03 PM EST
    but that may turn out to be an inconvenient truth  :-)

    [ Parent ]
    yeah, but the majority of the msm (none / 0) (#184)
    by angie on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:55:00 PM EST
    will NEVER call him on it. So, in the end, it will not matter.

    [ Parent ]
    He said that on "The View" (none / 0) (#180)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:52:36 PM EST
    that everybody had made too much of his relationship with Wright, that he was "just the pastor of the church I attended."

    Well, got to give him credit for being able to lie to blatantly with a straight face.

    [ Parent ]

    Cause Fox has new video of some recent (none / 0) (#27)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:53:11 PM EST
    ..Wright remarks about racism being in the American DNA.

    [ Parent ]
    There we go. (none / 0) (#32)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:55:39 PM EST
    I knew there had to be a reason.

    [ Parent ]
    The entire (none / 0) (#116)
    by phillhrrll on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:21:21 PM EST
    premise was absurd, trite and demeaning, how can you quantify compassion.

    [ Parent ]
    For Obama, there is no such thing as a (5.00 / 10) (#50)
    by Anne on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:00:06 PM EST
    straight line between the question and the answer; he takes us on a magical mystery tour, pointing out all the landmarks and attractions, and by the time he stops talking, you have no idea what the original question was.

    With Hillary, it's not that she is always completely linear in her responses, but she gets the the heart of it much more quickly.

    I really do think there is going to be pushback on his Reverend Wright responses - there's just too much out there that is different from what he said tonight.  I can't be the only one who wonders how Wright went from being right up there with grandma in his big important speech, but has now been relegated to being "just my pastor."

    His responses on abortion and family planning were offensive to me - as was his answer on religion in the public square.  I'm tired of being talked down to, and having my beliefs condescended to.

    I do not want this man anywhere near 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

    I am waiting for someone (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:06:39 PM EST
    to join me on the outrageous train over the "sanctity of sexuality" remark.  Ties nicely in with Wright blaming Natalie Holloway for her own death.  Guess she didn't have the sanctity of her sexuality so she deserved her fate.

    [ Parent ]
    Wish I hadn't been zoning out (5.00 / 0) (#84)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:10:42 PM EST
    when he said that.  He lost me when he talked about 12 and 13 yr olds having sex.

    [ Parent ]
    Kathy, I just put my head in my hands (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by Anne on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:16:35 PM EST
    when I heard that - more RW talking points that give me no confidence that he would preserve a woman's right to choose, would fight for access to birth control (when he talked about abstinence education I almost banged my head on the desk), would appoint SC justices who would uphold Roe v. Wade, etc.

    As an aside, when he said "kids are going to screw up," I couldn't help thinking, "Um, no - kids are going to screw - and kids who screw without birth control get pregnant."

    He just doesn't get it.

    Are there sleeping cars on your train?  All of this stuff is wearing me out.

    [ Parent ]

    In other words (5.00 / 0) (#141)
    by phillhrrll on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:30:49 PM EST
    he makes Jeese Jackson speechifying, succinct and concise.

    [ Parent ]
    abortion and family planning (none / 0) (#174)
    by noholib on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:47:48 PM EST
    I wasn't able to watch.  What did he say about abortion and family planning?

    [ Parent ]
    Abstinence (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:57:29 PM EST
    and he hat tipped Bush, and talked about the sanctity of sexuality.

    I kid you not.

    [ Parent ]

    That is a bit.. (none / 0) (#195)
    by Alec82 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:04:15 PM EST
    ...unfair.  He did say that should be our focus.  I strongly disagree.  He didn't support the ABC approach, as far as I know.  

    [ Parent ]
    I think he supports the kitchen sink approach... (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by sander60tx on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:19:09 PM EST
    the way I heard it, he would include abstinance education but also information on birth control among other things.  If I understand the meaning of "triangulation" that is what his answer was.  He was trying to satisfy everybody.  Some of you may have just heard abstinance, but he didn't say "abstinance only."

    [ Parent ]
    We differ I thought his answers where (none / 0) (#208)
    by voterin2008 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:21:48 PM EST
    refreshing and the only answer that appeared to be diverted was the right to life question which he for no better words skirted.  Other then that he perfectly explained my belief that faith should be involved in the community but not in a conversion role but in like he said "my brother keeper" and "raising up those in need" kind of way.  Faith should not control or be denied a role in our country it should be active member in the process of improving it.

    [ Parent ]
    I think the media spin is no longer working (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by rooge04 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:02:25 PM EST
    with actual voters. They're seeing it, too. Like that woman on CSPAN that called in.. I truly think most voters now know about the media bias thanks to Tina Fey and the sheer obviousness of it. It's not quite the same as Bush where you knew they were biased but it was hard to pinpoint to voters on the fence or that didn't despise him. The media bias towards Obama is beyond the pale and voters are noticing IMO. And they're reacting by voting for Hillary.

    I think you're right (none / 0) (#75)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:07:50 PM EST
    - I hope you're right.  I have noticed that despite the TV news shows being generally in the tank for Obama (except good old, bad old Faux News), not all the news organizations are falling for it.  For instance, I have Google News as my homepage and the news stories there seem to be hanging onto Bittergate.

    [ Parent ]
    Well stay away from Yahoo (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by rooge04 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:14:06 PM EST
    since every story on their front page is a variation of "Hillary Attacks Obama" or a promotion for an Obama campaign even. I just think that maybe for the first time those bitter people in the small towns are seeing the bias. It's so loud and clear you need not be a political junkie to see it happening. And right now I think those same bitter people are responding by throwing back the elite candidate that the elites in the media keep trying to shove down their throat.

    [ Parent ]
    Ugh (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:17:32 PM EST
    I just posted a link here to a Yahoo story where "Obama turns the tables on Clinton", says "Shame on her!" and calls her Annie Oakley.

    But I'm sure nobody will accuse him of going negative.

    [ Parent ]

    since when do you shoot ducks (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:23:15 PM EST
    with a six shooter?

    (And, great, now I got Doris Day singing, "I just got back from the Windy City, the Windy City is mighty pretty, but they ain't got what we got...like bitter ignoramooses who cling to god, guns and guts because they vote democratic, against their interests...")

    [ Parent ]

    Ha, ha. Can you make new lyrics for (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:30:24 PM EST
    ...Anything you can do I can do better....

    Oh yes I can. Yes I can...yes I can!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [ Parent ]

    Obama both entered and left (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by oldpro on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:03:49 PM EST
    as if it were a rally for him.

    Came in handshaking and high-fiveing down the aisle...stayed aftwerwards, signed autographs, shook hands, basked in the afterglow of the self-satisfied faithful...all on camera.

    Not a forum.  It was a campaign event. Staged more to showcase him.

    Not sure it was as successful as they hoped.

    I agree. (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Cheryl on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:55:26 PM EST
    My husband and I looked at each other in surprise when it was announced at the end of Hillary's session that "this is just the first half....now we have your opponent" before Hillary was even out of her chair or got any real applause.  Suddenly Obama is strutting in, barely even acknowledging Clinton, almost brushing past her. She got no real thank you or send off. It was all Obama at that point. Rather rude way of ending her segment. And then the constant applause and cheers after his convoluted answers! Astounding. I truly don't get him or his supporters. He doesn't even begin to equal her depth of knowledge or experience. Her answers were thoughtful; his were rambling and repetitive. And worth a cheer or fluent? I just don't get it.

    [ Parent ]
    I dunno... (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by Alec82 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:01:01 PM EST
    ...I thought they both had a tendency to ramble.  I don't like these "forums," be it for Spanish speaking voters, LGBT voters or the religious bloc.  They're extremely awkward.  I feel like our culture has had too much influence from the likes of Oprah and the View.  I don't remember these nonsense forums in 2004.  

    [ Parent ]
    I don't think it will change anyone's mind (none / 0) (#83)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:09:57 PM EST
    And I hate to agree with BTD because his head is big enough already, but from what I saw, Clinton definitely seemed uneasy in the beginning.  She got into her rhythm in the middle of it, but I think she came across as uncomfortable in the beginning--which is strange, because it's usually her forte to stand up to hard crowds.

    Maybe they were both just tired.  I thought she looked beautiful in that yellow, though... hahaha!

    [ Parent ]

    high-fiving?? are you kidding me??? (none / 0) (#85)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:11:00 PM EST
    That sounds so tacky.

    [ Parent ]
    hahaha (none / 0) (#152)
    by Cal on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:35:22 PM EST
    "basked in the afterglow"   So much so that we thought he was going to start smoking again right in front of the students.

    [ Parent ]
    CNN played his Annie Oakley comments (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:12:25 PM EST
    about Hillary. That was something, did anyone see it? Was that today?

    Is there an Obama supporter (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by badger on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:07:37 PM EST
    old enough to know who Annie Oakley was? (I remember the TV show)

    They're gonna think he's talking about sunglasses.

    [ Parent ]

    Seems to me (4.20 / 5) (#114)
    by nell on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:19:51 PM EST
    he totally lost it in that very, very bitter performance. What happened to hope?

    Just not good to mock her like that. He looks so condescending doing it. Especially since HE is the one who messed up. How dare she call him out on it!

    [ Parent ]

    we are approaching meltdown territory (4.00 / 4) (#145)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:32:42 PM EST
    He better watch his composure at Wednesday's debate...

    Sure seems anxious and overly upset for someone who is the inevitable nominee.

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah it was today, And about time he stepped (1.00 / 2) (#204)
    by voterin2008 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:14:29 PM EST
    up and starting fighting fire with fire.  The pandering Clinton has done that past few days is pitiful.  All on the backs of middle and lower class voters who are bitter and frustrated at our political system.  Hope and leadership is being honest with people so that we can identify the real problems of this country and move forward.

    [ Parent ]
    See my comment below (none / 0) (#97)
    by stillife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:14:22 PM EST
    It's the same speech where he said "Shame on her!"

    Obama Turns Table on Clinton

    [ Parent ]

    What a silly, silly man.. and talk (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:18:37 PM EST
    about right wing talking points!!!
    Hillary is perfectly within her rights to take him to task for insulting small town people, but making fun of Hillary because she said she learned to shoot as a child is a classic Republican joke.


    [ Parent ]
    I posted a link to it (none / 0) (#107)
    by Practically Lactating on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:17:19 PM EST
    in this thread.

    [ Parent ]
    Actually said Obama was (none / 0) (#126)
    by waldenpond on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:24:21 PM EST
    CNN's John said Obama was sarcastic and angry. Ouch.

    [ Parent ]
    John King? (none / 0) (#142)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:31:38 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Here's something for Obama supporters to chew on: (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by txpolitico67 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:12:33 PM EST
    His bitter remark is pure reflection of his "religious experience".  He IS a bitter man working under the guise of "hope". Very 1984: black is white, war is peace...

    The crap spewn from his church is the very definition of bitter.  The congregants are all victims.  Every. single. one. of. them.  Couple all this with Michelle Obama's statements and all this makes sense now.  The bitterness he and his ilk have, well, he's just trying to spread the victimhood to account for his losses to blue-collar/rural white voters.  

    I am an atheist/secular humanist.  If Barack's campaign would have answered CNN's request for this forum the way he countered Alan Keyes during his Senate run ("I am running to be a senator for Illinois, not its minister") I would have considered supporting him.   I am tired of Obama having it both ways.  Definitely count me as one of the many who will write in HRC's name in November if he's the nom.

    CNN (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by kayla on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:13:37 PM EST
    won't play some of Hillary's applause lines.  I thought she was brilliant in answer some of those impossible questions like "Do you think God wants you to president?"  Show a clip of her response, CNN!

    Why haven't I given up yet?

    because you failed Math? (3.00 / 1) (#140)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:30:48 PM EST
    --says the random Obama supporter.

    [ Parent ]
    Nah (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by kayla on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:49:18 PM EST
    I'm just bitter (and mathematical enough to know) that the economy is in a shambles and I've begun to cling onto the idea that fair media coverage of the candidate that I feel could best fix it actually exists.

    I'm hopeless...

    [ Parent ]

    Hang in there (none / 0) (#183)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:53:55 PM EST
    I think Hillary is going to pull this one out.  I still have faith that fairness will prevail.

    Democrats need to win in Novemeber and only Hillary at the top of the ticket can achieve that goal, in my opinion.  She is in a pretty good position right now, all things considered.


    [ Parent ]

    Obama really panders (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by lilburro on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:18:58 PM EST
    on faith.  The questions brought to him tonight and the way he handled them demonstrated that.  From "punished with a baby" to his support for faith-based initiatives to his criticisms of Democrats who support separation church and state as EXTREMISTS.  And his explanation of his comments in SF was very subpar.  If progressives were progressive the sucking up to the religious right that is going on would be widely frowned upon.  I thought this forum revealed Obama's willingness to sell out the liberalism of many fine folks in order to seem more friendly to Evangelicals and get votes.

    sep of church and state (none / 0) (#179)
    by noholib on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:52:15 PM EST
    I am sorry I couldn't watch this.
    Did he really say that Democrats who support the separation of church and state are extremists?
    How exactly did he put this?!!!

    [ Parent ]
    media golden boy (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by DianneCharlotteNC on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:22:52 PM EST
    How many questions asked? About 25 or so? But seems all they're prepared to talk about are the first 2 questions to each candidate...Obama's latest misstatement about rural Americans being bitter. Worded so Hillary couldn't win (What was wrong with what he said? Why have you attacked him so aggressively?) & the golden boy of the media couldn't lose(Why did you say...? Hillary said you were elitest)Campbell hid her dislike for Sen Clinton very well during the questioning but sure let her claws out at the wrap up!!!!But the media will keep pounding on any misstatement by former President Clinton and twisting any misstep of Sen. Clinton no matter how without merit or how old that "news" is until they get Sen. Obama the nomination. The gloves will come off in the national election and all of this will come back to bite the liberal media when McCain is elected President.

    The follow up question was not pre-planned (none / 0) (#135)
    by voterin2008 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:29:34 PM EST
    it came because her first response completely contradicted her attacks on the campaign.  If you are going to testify to the elitest, out of touch, unelectable arguement on the campaign trail and then say Obama needs to answer those question when asked in a forumn, then you should expect that kind of knee jerk follow up question.

    [ Parent ]
    Assuming (none / 0) (#166)
    by nell on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:43:39 PM EST
    you are from NC! How are things looking for Hillary down there? Just curious.

    Speaking of reaching out to people, she is running a new ad there, which I think is GREAT. It is of the touching moment from the Texas forum where the 91 year old woman told her she was "polished like gold":

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnaK4a2GU8o&feature=user

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary in NC (none / 0) (#187)
    by DianneCharlotteNC on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:57:16 PM EST
    She's still behind but we're working hard to tighten the race. She'll do well in the Charlotte area and I think his "bitter" comment may do him some harm here in the bible belt.

    [ Parent ]
    I think they did equally well... (5.00 / 0) (#122)
    by Alec82 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:23:08 PM EST
    ...and many of the questions were simply stupid.  In particular I thought the question posed to Senator Clinton (do you think God wants you to be president) was perhaps one of the most offensive comments posing as a question that I have ever heard in one of these forums.    

    Yeah I thought it was completely awkward but (none / 0) (#131)
    by voterin2008 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:26:29 PM EST
    she answered it well.  

    [ Parent ]
    I wanted her to say: (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:32:06 PM EST
    Well if he does, he sure has a funny way of showing it.

    [ Parent ]
    the whole premise was a ratings play (none / 0) (#157)
    by TheRefugee on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:37:31 PM EST
    were half those question relevant to an election?  Particularly the question you reference.  But most of the faith questions were loaded...the only answer was to equivocate and say nothing concrete so you don't piss off one voting block more than another.

    But I wish both candidates were asked the same exact questions so the audience would have a true marker as to what each said and how well each did.  To me Obama sounded like a moron, as did Clinton on the faith questions (which she predominantly got), while Obama was allowed to sound better when given no brain questions like "what about torture, what about aids, what about poverty".

    [ Parent ]

    I dunno... (5.00 / 0) (#172)
    by Alec82 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:45:19 PM EST
    ...the questioning seemed equally trivial to me.  

     This is just meeting a self-imposed media quota for another religion roundtable.  No questions posed about, say, the DANGER of religious extremism, I noticed.  That seemed like an appropriate topic.

    [ Parent ]

    Did they ask Obama why God made (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:01:33 PM EST
    people suffer, or something along those lines? Can't remember, but I know it was one of at least 2 questions they put at her that I thought were BS questions.

    [ Parent ]
    They asked... (5.00 / 0) (#196)
    by Alec82 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:05:50 PM EST
    ...whether God intervened in human affairs and whether the world was created in six days.  Yes, you read that correctly.

    [ Parent ]
    Well I thought the questions where equal, I did (none / 0) (#165)
    by voterin2008 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:43:21 PM EST
    think that the questions to both candidates regarding Obama's resent statements and about Wright where obviously biased.  I mean what questions where asked directly about what Clinton said or controversial things that have happened in her life.

    [ Parent ]
    Could Obama hear the questions asked to Hillary? (none / 0) (#171)
    by williams on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:44:49 PM EST
    I agree with you that each should have been asked the same questions.  I wondered if Obama was in a sound proof room while Hillary was answering the questions posed to her, or was he allowed to watch and listen.

    [ Parent ]
    He was probably allowed to listen (5.00 / 0) (#191)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:59:57 PM EST
    There weren't really right or wrong answers - it was supposed to be their personal beliefs.

    Ha - I almost got through that with a straight face.

    [ Parent ]

    They both did very well, this is an important (5.00 / 0) (#127)
    by voterin2008 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:24:57 PM EST
    step as I'm sure you heard the pundits mentioning in broadening the architecure of voters for the Democratic party.  I thought Clinton did an excellent job of answering questions and coming across on a more personal level.  Obama was better but you could tell that in the area of Faith he is the one with experience.  Either way this is a win.  It's a shame that everyone here automatically points to bias, or demeans Obama when they could call this a win for all of us!

    Faith experience (5.00 / 3) (#181)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:53:12 PM EST
    Obama was better but you could tell that in the area of Faith he is the one with experience.

    See, this bugs me.  He tells you his employer suggested he should go to church twenty years ago.  She had a lifetime of religion and faith being in her life and you see it as him having more experience.  Are you people DAFT?  

    [ Parent ]

    I'm waiting for (5.00 / 4) (#203)
    by badger on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:12:33 PM EST
    "Obama has more experience with women's issues because he has a wife and three daughters and Hillary only has the one daughter".

    Assuming I haven't missed it already.

    [ Parent ]

    Like watching a train wreck . . . (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by Palomino on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:53:23 PM EST
    . . . to see Obama squirm and hem and haw and, very awkwardly (no TelePrompTer? no sleep?), deliver a less than coherent version of his campaign speech, even giving a shout out--twice!--to Bob Casey in the audience. Speaking of the audience at Messiah (sic) College, those who were Obama worshipers wore an expression of shell shock much of the time when Obama was speaking, especially at the beginning, and it was interesting to note that one or two volleys of scattered applause--intended to encourage the struggling candidate?--quickly fell flat. I wouldn't say that Obama's interrogators held his feet to the fire, but Obama still looked very uncomfortable and sounded defensive most of the time. He seemed angry, in fact, the way he did the evening of the South Carolina primary and the way he did during the not-quite-concession speech he delivered in Austin after losing Texas and Ohio. And he did himself no favors by digging in and continuing to justify his tone-deaf insult to small-town Americans. An apology might have gone a long way here--big mistake. Honestly, I did not want Obama to do well. I think he needs to drop out, if anyone does. He did so much worse than I expected, though, that I almost feel sorry for him. As for Hillary, she did at least as well as an intelligent, well-qualified presidential candidate can be expected to do as a participant in such a disturbing, personally intrusive spectacle as a media-mediated grilling before the elite of our nation's politically engaged clergy. But Obama did so much worse.

    Personally... (none / 0) (#188)
    by Alec82 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:57:28 PM EST
    ...I think you are letting your support for Senator Clinton cloud your judgment on his performance here.  He did fine.  Senator Clinton did fine.  Many of the questions were terrible.

    [ Parent ]
    Alec, that's entirely possible . . . (none / 0) (#197)
    by Palomino on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:06:12 PM EST
    . . . on the other hand, though, I did my best to report what I observed of Obama's observable and reportable behavior. I saw what I saw and heard what I heard. It's on tape.

    [ Parent ]
    And one more thing (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by Palomino on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:02:54 PM EST
    I don't know how this was arranged, or whether both candidates knew about it, but bringing Obama in through the back door while Hillary was still onstage, with the predictable standing O-vation from the heavily pro-Obama audience, made Obama look like the President of the United States entering the House chamber for the State of the Union Speech. It also stepped all over any applause or other appreciation that Clinton's supporters in the audience might have liked to give her. It was most ungracious. Whose idea was this, I wonder. And then the camera lingered on Obama pressing the flesh after his segment of this reality show, with the talking heads nearly forced offscreen. Are they still in the tank for Obama? Are we now going to hear from every quarter that Obama so nailed this? We'll see soon enough.

    The conspiracy theory is deep in the Clinton (none / 0) (#206)
    by voterin2008 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:17:58 PM EST
    support group.  It's really no very attractive.

    [ Parent ]
    Shame on Hillary 'Annie Oakley' Clinton (3.66 / 3) (#86)
    by Practically Lactating on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:11:34 PM EST
    I just saw a clip on CNN where Obama says that Hillary is likening herself to Annie Oakley. The video is something to behold.

    Video

    LOL, what a hoot.. (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:25:29 PM EST
    If he was running against anyone but a Clinton, that would be his Dean Scream. He sure was testy.

    [ Parent ]
    Not likeable enough in that video clip (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by diplomatic on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:33:29 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Ick. (5.00 / 4) (#138)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:30:19 PM EST
    Did you see how he changed a bit when he started smearing her?

    Ick.

    I will say she does "Shame on you" better than he does. She's making a point, he's patting himself on the back. A follower yet again. Hers was about his false advertising, his about her pointing out the truth.

    I'm so over him.

    [ Parent ]

    Yawn. (none / 0) (#2)
    by gmo on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:44:11 PM EST
    Nothing new, really.  Nothing earth shattering or game changing.

    I agree! (none / 0) (#209)
    by felizarte on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 10:30:42 PM EST
    Nothing said here by Hillary or Obama takes away from the "bitterGate"  I doubt that many of those who have heard about Obama's "bitter" comment tuned in to this forum.  Nothing the pro-Obama pundits can really change the topic.  Then there is that debate on Wednesday where people get to see them again on the same stage answering the same questions.  

    [ Parent ]
    CNN (none / 0) (#3)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:44:30 PM EST
    Ok, Methodist which Hillary is for all her life, are very private.  Obama joined a church as he said, for political and work purposes.  He uses faith in his politics.  She had the faith for years.