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Newsweek on Obama's Foreign Policy Experience and Obama on Obama

Newsweek spends three online pages discussing Obama's foreign policy experience. Shorter version: Is a multi-cultural upbringing the kind of foreign policy experience that makes one best equipped to be Commander in Chief or President? (More on this here.)

The article focuses on Obama having grown up in Indonesia. Some quotes from the article:

  • Obama says he's more experienced than McCain or Hillary:

[L]ast week Obama signaled that he'd had enough of these attacks. Not only did he not lack experience, Obama cockily told a fund-raising crowd in San Francisco, but "foreign policy is the area where I am probably most confident that I know more and understand the world better than Senator Clinton or Senator McCain."

  • From a neutral Democrat:

Even some Dems who'd favor him in any contest against McCain also worry that Obama is overplaying his experience. "I don't know whether he's drinking his own Kool-Aid," says a former senior member of the Clinton administration who is not backing either Democratic candidate but would talk only on condition of anonymity because of his private-sector job. "I'm all for talking to the Cubans, or to the Iranians. I'm just not sure he's the guy to do it. The biggest administrative job he ever had was collecting articles for the Harvard Law Review."

More....

Fact check: Obama lived in Indonesia from the ages of 6 to ten. From age 10 on, he grew up in Hawaii with his American grandparents where he attended a prep school on a scholarship. (Transcript, Oprah Winfrey show on which Obama and his wife Michelle were guests, January 19, 2005, available on Lexis.com)

WINFREY: At age 10, Barack moved back to Hawaii to live with his white grandparents and to attend a prestigious school.

LA Times, March 13, 2005, (Lexis.com): "[His mother] raised her son in Indonesia for four years, then sent him at age 10 to live with her parents, who now lived in Hawaii

Time Magazine, Nov. 15, 2004, (Lexis.com): "[H]e grew up in Honolulu except from ages 6 to 10, when he and his mother lived in Indonesia. His father, though a potent symbol in his childhood, left when Obama was 2."

As an aside, here's more from the 2005 Oprah show, with what I think are some truisms about politics and Obama from Michelle:

Mrs. OBAMA: And I think that that's one of the things that I've tried to do when I've gone around to campaign for him, is just to sort of tamp down expectations, because that's one of the things we do with our politicians. We lift them up. We make them heroes. Then we slash them and burn them the minute they...

...Mrs. OBAMA: And the whole point of Barack's approach in politics generally is that we're in a very complicated, diverse country, and if we're going to do this together, it requires all of us to compromise. And it's not just compromise when you think you're right all the time, like the other guy is supposed to compromise, and that goes for both sides, liberals, conservatives. We don't want to give an inch. So the minute Barack has to make a compromise, we're gonna wait to see how people react.

On Obama's messiness:

Mrs. OBAMA: Barack is absolutely the messiest person in the household. We call his office the hole.

Sen. OBAMA: It wasn't that bad.

Mrs. OBAMA: You had dirty clothes on top of the basket this morning. And I'm just like, `There's a basket with a lid. Lift it up, put it in.'

On whether he'll run for President:

WINFREY: I have to ask you this. Do you think you'll run for president?... Is it even on your radar screen?

Sen. OBAMA: You know, really--and people have asked me this, and I'm sincere when I say it's not on my radar screen simply because I've been in politics long enough to know that there are so many variables. So many things can happen, so many things can change and, you know, ultimately what I want to do is to be part of this conversation, and whether I'm in politics or not, I think I can be part of this conversation, about how we live up to our values as Americans. How do we affirm what's best in this country and how do we heal the wounds of the tragedies of our history? And those are the--that's what I'm interested in doing.

Back to the Time Magazine article from Nov. 2004, an interesting description of Obama's political career:

In 1996 Obama ran for state senate and won. Impatient, he leaped again in 2000, this time challenging four-term U.S. Congressman Bobby Rush. A former Black Panther, Rush ridiculed Obama as a Harvard-educated carpetbagger. Obama got hammered, losing 2 to 1. This year Obama chose a better race--for an open Senate seat. Then he got lucky. In the primary, his millionaire opponent, Blair Hull, was undone by media revelations that his ex-wife had sought a restraining order against him. In the general election, Republican Jack Ryan withdrew after reporters revealed that his ex-wife had complained that he took her to sex clubs. Finally, the state's straggling Republican Party gifted Obama with Keyes as an opponent. Though a powerful speaker, Keyes alienated even conservatives by calling homosexuality "selfish hedonism" and engaging in other such hysterics.

With no serious competition, Obama was free to make friends in the Senate early. His campaign has donated nearly $ 400,000 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee and state parties with competitive races. The favors will cushion his landing in Washington, as will the affection of many veteran pols. "Obama could be President. There's nothing to stop him," says former Virginia Governor L. Douglas Wilder.

The Time article ends with:

Richard Durbin, the senior Senator from Illinois, counsels Obama to follow the model of Hillary Clinton. As a national figure entering the Senate with more buzz than clout, Clinton did her homework, kept her head down and stayed in tireless contact with her New York constituents. Gradually, her political capital rose. Obama says he plans to ask for her advice. Depending on how the conversation goes, maybe they could wager on the chances of them ever running together for the White House.

Obama on his 2000 Congressional loss to Bobby Rush (CNN, 10/24/04, Lexis.com):

OBAMA: You know, the most important thing - the - I remember on election day, we had a tough race. It was against Bobby Rush, this current congressman, sitting congressman here.

And I was feeling impatient and feeling like, you know, it was my time. And we had had a terrible race. I mean, all kinds of bad things had - everything that could go wrong in that race went wrong.

So I'm feeling pretty confident on election day, getting good vibes. I stand - I'm saying at the polling places and greeting voters as they're coming in. And most of them are senior citizens because it's mid day. And almost every one of them would come up and they'd shake my hand.

...And they'd pat me on the shoulder and say, "You are just such a fine young man. You are going to be wonderful some day, but I'm voting for Rush because it's not your turn."

And they were right. The community has its own wisdom. Politics, like life, is often times a matter of working hard, pressing forward, but recognizing that timing and opportunity is not going to be determined by you.

What the loss taught me was not to be so much on my time table, and think more about the community's time table.

Same interview, Obama touts his midwestern roots:

OBAMA: So yes, so I lived in Jakarta when I was - from the age of six to 10. But you know, my mother was from Kansas. And my grandparents, who helped raised me, were from Kansas. And so, what's interesting is how comfortable I feel in the Midwest, especially when I travel to small towns and rural areas in Illinois, the people there, the food they eat, their sense of humor, their stoicism, their lack of pretense, all of that very much is familiar to me because it reminds me of what I grew up with.

< Bob Casey: Obama Expressed Regret For Gaffe, Is A "Person Of Faith" | Al Franken, Fighting Dem? >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Why I (almost) prefer McCain to Obama (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by dianem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:19:25 PM EST
    Okay, on domestics McCain stands for everything I hate and will probably continue to destroy the nation a la Bush. On Iraq I don't trust McCain as far as I can throw him (although he certainly wouldn't screw up as badly as Bush). But McCain actually has an understanding of international politics, while Obama THINKS he has an understanding of international politics. When it comes to foreign relations, Obama is "Bush lite". He doesn't even know how little he knows.

    This would not matter, except that we are at a very difficult time in terms of international politics. Terrorism, the economy, trade, treaties ... global warming. All of these will require a deft hand and a complete understanding of how other cultures work. McCain has that. Obama doesn't.

    I won't go so far as to endorse McCain, because knowledge isn't enough - you also need to have the will to use that knowledge in a positive way. But it's not enough to hire good people, as Obama suggests he will do. President's have to make decisions about whom to trust and if they don't have a good foundation of knowledge they often end up making major mistakes. I only wonder how many people will look at Obama and McCain and actually choose to support McCain.

    Obama has NO business (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:24:09 PM EST
    conducting foreign policy. McCain is quite charismatic, and knows the world leaders, and has decades of experience watching diplomacy.
    He is definitely not my first choice, but I'm not at all sure that Obama would be better at foreign policy. I most fear Obama getting us involved militarily in Pakistan.

    Parent
    And won't his attitude come across (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 03:36:50 PM EST
    well to world leaders. If he behaves like he did asking for John Edwards' endorsement, then he is going to be about as popular as Bush. People don't like being talked down to, especially if they are heads of state.

    Parent
    McCain is not my first choice either (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 04:17:14 PM EST
    but right now he's running number two, with Obama a very distant third.  I just do not trust Obama to be president at this time.  Far too much to be done with far too little experience.  I also don't have real knowledge of his world view, and don't know if he has one, but that Pakistan stance is not a winner.

    Parent
    Wonder if Obama (none / 0) (#32)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:43:06 PM EST
    wins the nom (which, again, I don't think he will)--will he say that all McCain was doing on his foreign visits was watching people dance, touring a factory or two, then going home?  Will he say McCain was just sipping tea?

    Parent
    McCain's notorious temper (none / 0) (#26)
    by eleanora on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 03:49:05 PM EST
    frightens me way too much, plus he's got a bad habit of confusing strong-arming people with diplomacy. I used to live in New Mexico, and Pete Domenici was well known as a Republican's Republican. So I found this terrifying to read,

    "I decided I didn't want this guy anywhere near a trigger," said Mr Domenici."

    Me either.

    Parent

    Here's hoping (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by dianem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:19:43 PM EST
    I think it really depends what McCain gets mad about and how he expresses it. At least this gives us an opening to attack him. His popularity is way too high for my tastes.

    Parent
    BO, is not ready (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Prabhata on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:26:45 PM EST
    I'd not vote for BO because I think he is green.  Many say that JK was also accused of being inexperienced, which is true in the context of who he was running against, but if Obama ran against JK in 1960, JK would have said that BO is inexperienced.  If I had been in a position to give advice to BO before he decided to run, I would have encouraged him to wait.  To make a name for himself in the Senate by choosing issues that would resonate with voters, but most of all, become a leader with stature.  He jumped the gun, and we all know what happens when one jumps the gun in a race.

    Please do not refer (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:32:01 PM EST
    to Obama as BO or as Barry (noticed in other threads.) Be respectful. Call him Obama, Barack or Barack Obama.  Comments may be deleted if they use BO or Barry intending to demean him.

    note the adverb (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:45:45 PM EST
    He "cockily" said.  That's the MSM advancing a narrative.  Death by adverbs - they did it to clinton, now onto obama.

    NYT used "zeal" (none / 0) (#30)
    by sarany on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:02:55 PM EST
    in the articles about Clinton's message/use of Obama's "bitter" remarks. I thought the same as you. The reporter could have found another word than "zeal" which connotes a gleeful or gloating aspect. Or maybe fanatical is more accurate. But definitely a negative tone to punch up the sentence bite.

    I REALLY REALLY wish reporters would avoid the editorializing reportage.

    Parent

    reinvention of Obama (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by tarheel74 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:52:43 PM EST
    As has been pointed out by this post and I have noticed too there is a concerted effort by the Obama campaign and his devotees in the press to reinvent Obama and embellish his bio. Take this fluff piece in Newsweek for instance, reading it one would never know that Obama lived only 4 years in Indonesia and then in Hawaii. Listen to Jeffery Toobin talking and you will never know that either and that he went to a prep school (I could not find a single credible source confirming the scholarship, maybe he was but even his Wikipedia page does not mention it) in Hawaii and attended private schools for college. Then out of the blue we learn that he went to Pakistan on a visit for 3 weeks.
    But the greater point is beyond all these embellishments how does living between 6-10 in Jakarta or going to Pakistan on a holiday prepares a candidate to resolve the nuances of our complex world and play hardball with foreign powers is beyond me.

    Touts or 'toots'. (none / 0) (#1)
    by Semanticleo on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 01:59:10 PM EST
    "You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught be how to shoot when I was a little girl," she said."

    Can you guys give Hillary some tacit advice on what happened to Kerry and Dukakis when they  attached themselves to weaponry?

    It just is plain foolish to think they are going to have a net gain through shameless pandering.

    If you live in that area, it means a lot (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by BarnBabe on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:29:40 PM EST
    She also talked about taking outdoor showers and playing pinochle. As a child visiting my Grandparents here from Ft. Lauderdale, I loved the farm and found no problem changing from a 2 bathroom modern house to a outhouse and fresh water from the well. Times have changed of course, but you can still taste the cold fresh water in your memory and hear that front screen door slamming. And every night instead of watching TV, my Grandfather would pull out the deck of cards. See, I don't even remember hearing the shooting part but that is fine with me. I was just hearing that she knew what it was like to be a kid spending time in Penna. This morning I was thinking my life is like Diane Keaton in Baby Boomer and it is just fine. No bitterness here but I am clinging to Hillary's candidacy.  

    Parent
    My Grandpa taught me how to catch (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 03:09:53 PM EST
    fireflies as a kid when we visited in Illinois. I had never seen one before. Grandma still had the old wringer style washer in the basement and yup, the sound of screen doors. We also used to play pinochle, lol!~

    I'm looking forward to my 'Baby Boomer' time in a couple years when I move. Won't be the mid-west, but will be small town or rural.

    Parent

    I still work (none / 0) (#37)
    by BarnBabe on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:51:13 PM EST
    But small town life in Penna is pretty cool. Because I am in NE PA, we have a lot of NY and NJ runaway neighbors and they seem pretty happy here. Don't take me wrong. I love California and growing up in Ft. Lauderdale was so wild, but the summers in PA were even more memorable. Maybe that is why I eventually landed back here. The Grandparents throught that FDR was God. Passed down the Democratic gene.

    Parent
    Did you see Hillary with a gun in her (none / 0) (#3)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:02:30 PM EST
    hands? She knows what she is doing. She can get the votes in rural areas---she already proved that in NY.

    Parent
    I'll bet (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by madamab on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:03:34 PM EST
    she can bowl better than Obama, too. ;-)

    Parent
    perfectly plausible (none / 0) (#31)
    by sarany on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:12:07 PM EST
    I'm a member of the so-called creative class, and my Dad taught me to shoot too.  22 AND a shotgun at a skeet one day. Knocked me on my butt, but I hit the thing (pure luck).

    Anyway, I really haven't shot guns since then, but I have that memory and there is that narrative of owning guns and hunting, and the proper use of guns in my history and family.

    Hillary's story about this is just fine I think. (Unless, heaven help us, she is embellishing. But I'm sure she's not.)  She just should never, ever, EVER try to do a press event hunting outing like Kerry did. Unless it's something a politician actually does in real life, they shouldn't pander in those ways. Looks ridiculous.

    And even real hobbies should be vetted first. Like sailboarding. Oh how Kerry made us all wince. And Obama shouldn't have bowled. He really shouldn't have done that.

    Parent

    Part of Kerry's problem (none / 0) (#11)
    by kredwyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:15:08 PM EST
    was the newness of his hunting outfit.

    There were other problems like the fact that he mentioned that his favorite gun was X (don't remember)...but that was also one of the weapons addressed in the AWB (his was an older/grandfathered version) that quite a number of gun owners opposed.

    Then there was something about accepting a gun from some group...an act which isn't cricket with Brady re: accepting guns as gifts. (I think he gave it back, but that didn't get much press at the time).

    Best thing to do is not assume what the gaffs were...but to check out what the gun bloggers were noting re: the gaffs.

    Parent

    She's mentioned this before (none / 0) (#21)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 03:04:54 PM EST
    and also that she went duck hunting in Arkansas.

    There may be a difference in that she's talking about the past and is not currently a 'hunter'. Nor is she out there doing photo op hunting excursions. There are non-hunters that can respect others rights to hunt. I'm one of them, as long as it's 'proper' hunting and not canned hunting or other non-traditional BS hunting :)

    Parent

    I guess Obama will make a great... (none / 0) (#2)
    by ineedalife on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 01:59:26 PM EST
    Secretary of State for Hillary.


    Not ready for prime time (none / 0) (#4)
    by madamab on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:02:45 PM EST
    I noticed this part about his loss to Bobbby Rush:

    A former Black Panther, Rush ridiculed Obama as a Harvard-educated carpetbagger. Obama got hammered, losing 2 to 1.

    This is exactly what I fear will happen to him in the general election.

    I hope if HRC offers him the VP position in June, he takes it this time. Maybe getting hammered in every big state between now and then will get it through to him that he has jumped the gun again, and that it's again, not yet his time.

    "not your time" (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Kathy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:12:03 PM EST
    those words resonate so much to me--and I'm sure Cream will back me up on this.  It's the same thing Frederick Douglass told Elizabeth Cady Stanton when, after sacrificing a great deal of her life to end slavery and get the vote for black men, she asked him to help with getting suffrage for women.

    Parent
    Ah, but the money quote (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:29:04 PM EST
    was from Wendell Phillips at the AERA convention in 1866.  Until then, the term for reformers' goal was "universal suffrage," for all men and women, who deferred their campaign during the Civil War with the promise that reformers would return to that goal.  

    And until then, yes, Douglass had been a supporter of woman suffrage, since he stood up for Cady Stanton on that plank of women's platform, the Declaration of Sentiments at Seneca Falls in 1848.

    But then, the men -- including Douglass -- came up with amendments that put gender, the word "male," into our Constitution for the first time.  As Phillips said to Stanton -- the group's president, until they ran her out as well as other women:  "This is the Negro's hour."

    And that's why women had to go ahead on their own for the rest of the "century of struggle" for woman sufrrage -- and that's why it's an instructive lesson even today . . . when our Constitution still has the word "male" in it.  

    First one who finds the word "female," pls. reply.

    Parent

    Perceived experience is supposed to (4.50 / 2) (#6)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:07:08 PM EST
    be a prerequisite for Presidential candidates.
    When I found how how inflated Obama's already think resume` was, I was horrified.


    Parent
    Well, if he is on the ticket as VP (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by madamab on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:11:15 PM EST
    he will get enough experience to counter Republicans quite well in 2016.

    I go back and forth wanting, and then not wanting, a dream ticket...

    Parent

    He won't be an asset to Hillary as VP (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by felizarte on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:38:09 PM EST
    if he loses the nomination because of the gaffes he has made and the perception built around him.  

    Parent
    I think the liability (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by TheRefugee on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:43:46 PM EST
    would be that he has proven that he is only about one thing, himself.  Seems like a backdoor type, Hillary would be saying one thing publicly, Obama would be working with other people behind the scenes to do something else: "hey, Sen. X, how'd you like to stick it to Hillary and make me the next President?"

    Parent
    a good VP needs to know (none / 0) (#29)
    by LHinSeattle on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 04:54:47 PM EST
    when to keep his mouth shut and when to talk. And remember what he said and to whom.

    Obama played up his childhood for the international aspect for 2008, but played up his childhood for the small-town America aspect a few years earlier.

    He's against NAFTA in Ohio, but for it when a top aide talks to Canada.

    I worry as VP he'd tell the Israelis one thing, and the Palestinians the exact opposite.

    The Repubs are going to have a field day with the "flip-flops" in the GE.  I hope Hillary, if nominee, will not pick him for VP.

    Parent

    Obama interview in 2006 (none / 0) (#7)
    by Josey on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:07:36 PM EST
    which I can't find - ugh!
    States he's not running for president because he lacks experience.


    The Guardian (none / 0) (#22)
    by jeniferea on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 03:05:06 PM EST
    quotes Obama on 10/24/2006 as saying in response to a question about his relative lack of experience:

    Mr Obama addressed that on Sunday, saying: "I'm not sure anybody is ready to be president before they're president."


    Parent
    It was Jan or Feb 2006 (none / 0) (#24)
    by Josey on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 03:32:12 PM EST
    It was interview with major network, may have been Meet the Press...


    Parent
    yeah i can't remember either (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by TheRefugee on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:48:29 PM EST
    though mtp sounds right.

    But you are correct.  He was very adamant that a first term Senator would not have the experience necessary to make a valid run at the WH...

    Parent

    Rule Numero Uno... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kredwyn on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:08:15 PM EST
    Never believe your own press.

    Obama and experience... (none / 0) (#28)
    by SAINTIXE56 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 04:23:57 PM EST
    and when it comes to it Clinton and McCain.
    Napoleon Buonaparte, nil experience in politics- ruled about 16ys and let his name becoming a byword.
    Washington the general did not have much political experience , nor MLK to come to this of it in politics as such.
    But shamed Marshal Petain was a WWI hero and had much experience in politics isnt it... Putin was just an middle class apparatchick and Mao  experience against Chanh Quai Che , nil isnt it. History is full of smart greenhor,ns and silly savvy old timers. We never know until the end, and I find it rather rich that democrats who do have the daily spectacle of the grown son of a former POTUS who was twice governor of a very large and rich state , who should have experience and know-how , who see this man actually in the WH ruining our country and leading it to further disasters. That is experience. i DONT THINK EXPERIENCE HAS MUCH to recommend itself these days....

    Actually, Bush had little experience (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by dianem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:40:55 PM EST
    He had a number of failed businesses and was governor of a state in which governor is practically an honorary position (Read Molly Ivins "Shrub"). Napolean rose through the ranks of the military and, presumably, gained a lot of experience in the process. Washington was a great military leader and presided over the Constitutional Convention. He was hardly a greenhorn when he became President.

    Having experience does not guarantee good performance. But there are very few examples in history of great leaders who rose to power with very little experience. Unfortunately, because of various political factors, we are probably going to have to choose between an inexperienced leader with good politics and an experienced leader with bad politics. We should not be in this position.

    Parent

    Success of Little Experienced Politicians (none / 0) (#38)
    by jumbodad on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:51:31 PM EST
    Napoleon was a butcher who practiced diplomacy by declaring war on his neighbors and on Egypt.  
    Washington the general did not have much political experience nor did he have much actual aptitude at being a General.  He was chosen to be the military leader because he was the least offensive of the candidates.  He was never a politician, in fact he barely tolerated his duties as president, but he wasn't not overly ambitious, (turned down the idea of becoming king), and he was worshipped by many as the leader of the military.
    Putin was just an middle class apparatchick and is now being feared as a defacto dictator in Russia.
    Mao gained his political experience on the battle field.  Besides the countries he could bully militaryly, he had China almost universally despised.
    History is full of smart greenhorns and silly savvy old timers, but you picked some bad examples - Abraham Lincoln comes to mind.
    There are many more where the experienced person was the right choice, both Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt are prime examples of experience making the difference in how this country was shaped
    We never know until the end, and I find it rather rich that democrats who do have the daily spectacle of the grown son of a former POTUS who ran on uniting the country and bringing real change to Washington, and who in fact had a record of ineptitude and bumbling was still elected TWICE!  Someone must have voted for him, but few wish to claim so now.
    Sorry, i can't go on, laughing to hard.

    Parent