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Pentagon Questions Captain's Statement to Obama Campaign

Big Tent Democrat wrote yesterday about the controversy that's developed over Barack Obama's reference in the Texas debate to an army captain who told him or someone in his campaign that his unit in Afghanistan had to fight without proper equipment and training. ABC News spoke to the captain and said he confirmed Obama's account.

Now, the Pentagon is challenging it and Sen. John Warner, who chaired the Senate Armed Forces Committee when the captain was in Afghanistan, has asked Obama for details of the man's unit and when and where the alleged incidents happened. He intends to bring it up at a hearing next week.

What Obama said (from the debate transcript):

More...

Now, that has consequences -- that has significant consequences, because it has diverted attention from Afghanistan where al Qaeda, that killed 3,000 Americans, are stronger now than at any time since 2001.

You know, I've heard from an Army captain who was the head of a rifle platoon -- supposed to have 39 men in a rifle platoon. Ended up being sent to Afghanistan with 24 because 15 of those soldiers had been sent to Iraq.

OBAMA: And as a consequence, they didn't have enough ammunition, they didn't have enough humvees. They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief.

NBC News also spoke to the captain Friday.

The captain told NBC News that he was talking about not having enough ammunition and no Humvees for training, but that his unit underwent a three-week crash course in Afghanistan before they saw combat.

The captain, who spoke on background because he's still active duty, said that his unit temporarily had to replace their .50-caliber turret-mounted machine gun with a weapon seized from the Taliban because they couldn't get a needed part fast enough.

He did not say that any of the shortages contributed to any combat casualties in his unit. But he said any shortage, whether in training or combat operations, was inexcusable for the U.S. military.

While Obama didn't say the lack of equipment occurred during combat vs. training, I think he implied it by prefacing the story with a statement about 3,000 Americans being killed by al Qaeda, which is now stronger in Afghanistan.

Obama said the captain's unit lacked ammo and humvees. The captain says they didn't lack ammo once in Afghanistan, only during training.

Also, Obama never spoke directly with the Captain about the incident, he was repeating a story his staff had told him.

David Axelrod told the National Review's Stephen Spruiell, "that was a discussion that a captain in the military had with our staff, and he asked that that be passed along to Senator Obama."

Nor did Obama mention this occurred several years ago. (The captain, at that time, was a Lieutenant.)

In all, I think the differences are petty. What I question, is Obama use of this hearsay incident to argue he's ready to be commander in chief. Back to the transcript:

And on what I believe was the single most important foreign policy decision of this generation, whether or not to go to war in Iraq, I believe I showed the judgment of a commander in chief. And I think that Senator Clinton was wrong in her judgments on that.

Now, that has consequences -- that has significant consequences, because it has diverted attention from Afghanistan where al Qaeda, that killed 3,000 Americans, are stronger now than at any time since 2001.

You know, I've heard from an Army captain who was the head of a rifle platoon -- supposed to have 39 men in a rifle platoon. Ended up being sent to Afghanistan with 24 because 15 of those soldiers had been sent to Iraq.....

Obama, as we all know, expressed his opposition to the war in 2002. What legislation has he introduced in his three years in the Senate to strengthen the ability of our troops fighting in Afghanistan, where he believes the fight should be taking place? Or any other topic related to the military?

Here's one from Hillary, in Feb. 2007, speaking on the floor of the Senate about a bill she was introducing:

Finally, I would prohibit any spending to increase troop levels unless, and until, the Secretary of Defense certifies that our American troops will have the proper training and equipment for whatever mission they are ordered to fulfill. Yesterday I read the classified report outlining the findings by the Department of Defense's Inspector General about the problems that have been faced by our troops getting the equipment they desperately need in combat areas like Iraq. The Inspector General did not have the full cooperation of the Department of Defense and it is heartbreaking that the Inspector General could conclude that the U.S. military still has failed to equip our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, especially for the kind of warfare that they are confronting with IEDs and insurgents who are attacking them in asymmetric, unconventional warfare.

This report comes on the heals of an article in The Washington Post last week entitled, "Equipment for Troops is Lacking: Troops Must Make Do, Officials say." The Washington Post story raised serious questions about the adequacy of the supply of up-armored humvees and trucks. One of our Generals is quoted as saying that he doesn't have the equipment that our forces need and they will have to go into battle with what they have.

On my way back from Iraq and Afghanistan, I stopped at Landstuhl Hospital in Germany to visit with some of our wounded soldiers. I met with one young man who was lying in his bed with his injuries that he had suffered from one of the shape charges, these new, more advanced, more sophisticated command-controlled IEDs, the Improvised Explosive Devices. He told me that the armored fully equipped humvee that saved his life and that of the life -- the lives of his buddies who were with him. But he also told me that not everybody that he served with had that kind of protection because there weren't enough of those armored vehicles to go around.

Madam President, I do not believe that the Congress can shirk its responsibility.

What has Obama done, legislatively or otherwise, that prepares him to be Commander in Chief?

Hillary has served on the Senate Armed Services Committee and three of its subcommittees, Airland, Emerging Threats and Capabilities and Readiness and Management Support

She introduced a bill to enhance services available to members of the Armed Forces returning from deployment in Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom to assist them in transitioning to civilian life.

She introduced a bill to prevent nuclear terrorism.

She co-sponsored the Standing With Our Troops Act of 2005 to increase authorized end strengths for the Army and Marine Corps. The bill also required the Secretary of Defense to publish a monthly accounting of military casualties incurred in Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom, and any other operation undertaken under the Global War on Terrorism, among other things. Sen. Obama didn't sign as one of the 25 co-sponsors.

She co-sponsored the Targeting Terrorists More Effectively Act of 2005:

Targeting Terrorists More Effectively Act of 2005 - Sets forth provisions with respect to: (1) Army special operations forces increases; (2) increasing foreign language expertise in the United States for the purpose of improving national security; (3) preventing terrorist financing; (4) prohibiting transactions with countries that support terrorism; (5) preventing the growth of radical Islamic fundamentalism, and promoting democracy and development in the Middle East, Central Asia, South Asia, and Southeast Asia; (6) advancing U.S. interests through diplomacy; (7) the treatment of detainees, including establishment of a National Commission to Review Policy Regarding the Treatment of Detainees; (8) strategy for the U.S. relationship with Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia; (9) non-proliferation programs, including Russian nuclear facilities and tactical nuclear weapons; (10) border protection, including border personnel increases; (11) seaport protection, including deployment of radiation detection portal equipment, tanker security, and acceleration of the Megaports Initiative; (12) first responders, including training for law enforcement personnel; and (13) prohibitions on war profiteering.

Sen. Obama was not one of the 12 co-sponsors.

She co-sponsored a bill to require that Homeland Security grants related to terrorism preparedness and prevention be awarded based strictly on an assessment of risk, threat, and vulnerabilities.

I don't mean to suggest this is all Hillary has done in this area. It's just a brief glance at her legislative record since 2005 when Obama became a Senator. Nor do I have any expertise on the military.

My question pertains to Barack Obama's readiness to serve as Commander in Chief. Again, what has he done, legislatively or otherwise, that shows his readiness to lead our country as Commander-in-Chief? Is it just that he expressed his opposition to the war back in 2002? I haven't researched his record. I'm hoping his supporters can enlighten us.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Great analysis Jeralyn (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by diplomatic on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 03:59:58 AM EST
    It is somewhat terrifying how close Obama is to getting this nomination without so many of these questions about his preparedness being answered.

    The primaries and the vetting process should continue until at least April 22nd.

    This is President of the United States we are talking about here folks, not the head of the local Bingo club.

    How we vote (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Lou Grinzo on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 06:40:50 AM EST
    I'm deeply worried that in a couple of election cycles many Americans are going from voting for the guy they'd like to have a beer with to the guy they'd like to invite to a dinner party.  Those approaches are equally bad, in my opinion.

    I'm most definitely not suggesting that President Obama would be anywhere near the train wreck that Bush has been, merely that we should know what we're getting, to at least some reasonable level of certainty, before we vote.

    [ Parent ]

    well true, we don't know that obama would (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by hellothere on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 08:49:50 AM EST
    be a train wreck. but the fact is we don't know and the hero worship for an unfinished picture is very depressing to me. in the age of tv and computers, with so much info available, we have done nothing to but fail in the area of critical thinking. it reminds me of rome hate to say. obama has not been vetted. it wasn't demanded by the voters and the media certainly has failed.

    [ Parent ]
    How about (none / 0) (#67)
    by andrewwm on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:00:18 AM EST
    someone that:

    • opted out of the lucrative corporate track to work on progressive organizing
    • had a progressive record running the Harvard Law Journal
    • worked on thankless progressive goals in local neighborhoods in Chicago (in essence, he volunteered for the Siberia of progressive activist stations)
    • ran as and became a strong progressive advocate in the IL legislature
    • ran as and became a strong progressive advocate in the US Senate

    I'm fine with people thinking other candidates having better qualifications in some way (although I obviously disagree), but this idea that he's some kind of Manchurian candidate is silly.

    [ Parent ]
    what exactly is it that you would like to know? (none / 0) (#41)
    by tsackton on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:20:20 AM EST
    First of all, I don't really think "legislation introduced in the Senate" is that useful a measure. I mean, it is fine and all, but it isn't really that different from reading policy papers on each campaign's web site. A much more interesting thing to look at, IMO, is legislation they have sponsored or cosponsored that has actually become law. Hilzoy has a long series of posts up (summarized here: http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/02/dear-chris-matt.html) about Obama's (and Clinton's, in some of the linked posts) bills that have passed.

    Of note with respect to this Commander-in-Chief debate:
    -Obama has devoted considerable attention to arms control, both nuclear nonproliferation and securing stockpiles of conventional weapons.
    -Obama successfully fought to improve screening for brain injuries in returning vets
    -Obama passed a bill to increase foreign aid and refocus US priorities in the Congo
    -Obama passed legislation on pandemic preparedness with respect to avian flu

    Also, Obama opposed the Kyl-Lieberman amendment, which Clinton supported.

    Now, many of these are relatively small issues, but of course it has been quite difficult for Democrats to get anything much passed for a while. If that doesn't satisfy you, you can read his website (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/), which seems almost as relevant as legislation introduced but not acted on.

    It seems clear to me that Obama's major focus in the foreign policy arena is refocusing the US on diplomacy and international frameworks. He has repeatedly emphasized that he would be willing to meet with foreign leaders, even of enemy states, without requiring them to agree to our demands beforehand (although as he emphasized in the most recent debate, he obviously isn't going to meet with them unless they agree to discuss issues of concern to the US). He has said that, if he is the nominee, reengaging with the world on climate change will be a major initial priority. Arms control, based around international frameworks like the original Nunn-Lugar initiative, is obviously a priority of his. He opposed the Kyl-Lieberman amendment, which defined the Iranian National Guard as a terrorist organization, making it much easier for Bush and Cheney to start a war with Iran (which fortunately hasn't happened yet). Obama has constantly questioned not just the Iraq war itself, but the mindset that got us into that war.

    I'm not sure what more it is that you are looking for. I think that both these candidates would make incredible Presidents. Just because I support Obama doesn't mean I think Clinton would be a disaster, and I have to admit that I don't quite understand where the attitude among some Clinton supporters that Obama would be a disaster comes from.

    [ Parent ]

    Hmm... (none / 0) (#55)
    by Lena on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:46:02 AM EST
    In support of Obama's qualifications to be c-in-c, you write:

    "-Obama successfully fought to improve screening for brain injuries in returning vets
    -Obama passed legislation on pandemic preparedness with respect to avian flu"

    Both things are laudable, but there's no way that these 2 items would convince me that this is preparation to be c-in-c....

    [ Parent ]

    well, there are a bunch of other things (none / 0) (#63)
    by tsackton on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:53:55 AM EST
    in my post as well. Is everything else I mentioned not preparation to be c-in-c also?

    Plus, if bills that Hillary introduced to improve the transition of vets to civilian life count as qualifications to be c-in-c, surely bills Obama actually got passed that improve the conditions of returning vets count as well.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama opposed Kyle-Lieberman bill . . . (none / 0) (#113)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:44:11 PM EST
    and how did he vote on it?

    [ Parent ]
    An analogy (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 04:09:24 AM EST
    Obama opposed the war before Hillary did. Surely, something more is required to be Commander in Chief.  I doubt anyone, myself included, would think I'm qualified to be Attorney General even though I've spent decades opposing our policy of over-incarceration.

    Bad Analogy (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 04:26:08 AM EST
    You spent decades.

    Obama's criticism of invading Iraq lasted maybe a year.  And then it started back up again when he declared.

    For me the issue is interventionism.  I know where Clinton stands on it, and, while I agree with Clinton, I can respect why some will disagree.  They have a right to do so on their own terms without being disparaged by folks in the party (I mean the DLC).

    I also know where Feingold stands on interventionism.

    He opposed Kosovo.  Fine.  That's his right.

    I don't know where Obama stands on interventionism.  

    His opposition to Iraq has never transcended "I told you so" status.  He's communicated no other position or values on what America's role should be in the world, except to say we need to be filled with remorse and self-loathing.

    I suppose that's a start.

    [ Parent ]

    "I told you so" (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by OrangeFur on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 05:08:01 AM EST
    That's a perfect summary of his Iraq position.

    [ Parent ]
    Voting against Iraq when it mattered.... (none / 0) (#49)
    by Dadler on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:38:18 AM EST
    ...is a pretty clean indication Obama WON'T get us into the kind of fiasco Clinton cowardly enabled.  On this score, Obama is a far supierior choice if you're worried about future Iraq's.  If you want Iraq to go on and on and lead to others, the record clearly shows Hillary is willing to send us down this route.

    I don't give a rat's ace who wins, I just want Dems to start acting like they can see the obvious in front of their noses.  On the issue of Iraq, Clintong enabled genocide and mass murder that has been committed in our name and continues to.  Obama voted against it.  Period.

    Hillary Clinton has more blood on her hands than the rest of us, but we all have it.  Her vote to give Bush the power, which he ultimately used to destroy millions of lives, cannot be taken back, cannot be rationalized.  It is what it is.  A stupid, thoughtless, cowardly vote that enabled mass murder.  That is her record on this issue.  

    [ Parent ]

    No, Obama did not vote against the war (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:45:07 AM EST
    He did not vote against funding, either.

    Why do people still insist that he "voted" against it?  Did the IL senate pass some kind of resolution that I don't know about?

    This is right up there with Cheney still saying Sadaam was behind 9-11.  IT IS NOT TRUE.  HE DID NOT VOTE AGAINST ANYTHING.

    [ Parent ]

    And he did. (none / 0) (#56)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:46:39 AM EST
    He predicted the problems without being privy to the intel that Hillary didn't even read.

    [ Parent ]
    HE DID NOT VOTE AGAINST THE WAR (none / 0) (#60)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:49:07 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Clearly.... (none / 0) (#65)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:57:24 AM EST
    but even without access to the intelligence reports he predicted the outcome.

    [ Parent ]
    The mirror (none / 0) (#71)
    by manys on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:04:26 AM EST
    Just like many of us.

    [ Parent ]
    More qualified than an AG who (none / 0) (#52)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:44:39 AM EST
    worked towards implementing or maintaining unfair sentencing without knowing the facts. Definitely.

    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 0) (#59)
    by andrewwm on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:48:05 AM EST
    I'd say good judgment is a necessary but not sufficient condition for president (c.f. Iraq, Kyl-Lieberman).

    Clinton's not even met the necessary part of the criteria yet.

    It's always been a very weird line of argument to that Clinton supporters have been making that Obama's accomplishments aren't that great, really all he's done is make the same mistakes that she's made (funding the war, etc).

    [ Parent ]

    I think Obama's (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by reynwrap582 on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 04:36:29 AM EST
    "I was against it from the beginning" is not going to be as effective against McCain as Obama thinks it is.  All McCain will have to do is dismiss it by pointing out Obama wasn't even a Senator yet when the Iraq war was authorized and didn't have a vote (i.e. new and inexperienced in national politics) and that he's voted to continue funding it (which is tantamount to supporting it), which is something HRC can't really say because she's been voting to fund it too while saying she wants to end it.  The Clinton Campaign has tried carefully to make that argument, but all it ended up doing was making Bill look like a racist by calling Barack's campaign a fairy tale (I know that's not what he said, but thats what the spin was).

    If anything, I honestly think Hillary might have a stronger stance against McCain on Iraq because she can say that they saw eye-to-eye in the beginning, but that she understands the realities on the ground and that things are not going well and that we need to withdraw and let things fall into Iraq's hands.  I think her arguing with McCain that he refuses to see the reality and hold the Iraqi Government accountable would play out A LOT better than Obama's "nana-nana-boo-boo, I was against it the whole time!" shtick.  That approach has not seemed to work well with anybody I know that wasn't already an ardent Obama supporter.

    Yep (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 04:39:13 AM EST
    That's not what he said, that's what the spin was.


    [ Parent ]
    All he has to say is McCain is for more and more (none / 0) (#54)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:45:49 AM EST
    war. Not an issue.

    [ Parent ]
    Uh (none / 0) (#62)
    by andrewwm on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:49:31 AM EST
    are you forgetting the line of "for it before he was against it"? That probably killed Kerry's chances right there.

    [ Parent ]
    Sniping at Obama (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by robrecht on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 07:02:46 AM EST
    I agree that Hillary is more qualified to be commander in chief and I am supporting her.  But I wish she had opposed the Iraq War from the beginning as Obama did.  It was not politically possible for either of them to end the war responsibly from the Senate.  Both of them could have done much more, of course, to try and end the war.  Defunding was logically possible but never a political possibility.  I think Hillary did more to try to end the war from the Senate, but she did not oppose it when it mattered most.  Unlike her supporters, Hillary, for the most part, has not engaged in sniping at Obama's opposition to the war, but rather has mostly tried to defend her initial vote, sometimes a bit dishonestly, but she knows Obama was right in 2002.

    Michael Dukakis moment? (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by ineedalife on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:04:03 AM EST
    I know Obama's people are astute enough to prevent him from getting his picture taken inside a tank. But if he can't talk about a specific military issue without botching it, then McCain is going to win going away. This is one of Obama's glaring weaknesses so, when ever he goes there, he has to be absolutely sure he has it nailed from every perspective. He can't be mixing timelines to try to create false impressions. It plays right into the American-hating liberal theme. He is going out of his way to make the military look inept. The details matter because the Republicans will be calling him a liar. They can gin up a faux-outrage firestorm whenever they please.

    I think the Superman photo (none / 0) (#28)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:23:12 AM EST
    on the other post is right up there with the tank.  Who let him do that?

    Obama has already messed up once with McCain--in writing--vis-a-vis the "flack" jacket.  McCain popped him for that one.  Something like this, if said in a debate, would give McCain an opportunity to humiliate him on national television.

    This just all goes to experience.  A more seasoned politician would not have given those specifics--and I wonder, if Obama was so concerned about this young soldier, why didn't he find the man himself to hear his story?  Why did he "staff" it out and then take the word of his staff?

    Bush took the word of his staff (Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al) and look where that got us.  Is Obama too busy to get the facts right?  Reminds me of something I read in Newsweek from a Bush staffer: "It's not the job of the president to be a fact-checker."

    Uh, WHAT?

    [ Parent ]

    wrong (none / 0) (#44)
    by tsackton on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:30:16 AM EST
    The "flack" jacket thing is a right wing talking point that is completely and utterly false. Please see here: http://mediamatters.org/items/200705260002

    I really wish that all Democrats, Clinton and Obama supporters alike, would avoid using right wing talking points to attack the other candidate. It is extremely unhelpful and unwise.

    [ Parent ]

    Are you saying that McCain (none / 0) (#48)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:36:16 AM EST
    did not humiliate him?

    Because that was the point I was making.  It makes it even more pathetic that he has to run to the dictionary.  I mean, come on.  This is the big leagues.  Playing pedant isn't the way political wars are won.  If it was, then we'd be looking at Al Gore stepping down from his second term and endorsing Clinton right now.

    [ Parent ]

    Humiliate? Doubtful. (none / 0) (#51)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:40:58 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Are Republicans in Congress (none / 0) (#61)
    by tsackton on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:49:21 AM EST
    "humiliating" House Dems over the Protect America Act extension right now? Perhaps McCain did "humiliate" Obama in that sense, in that he lied in order to try to make a political opponent look bad. But McCain wasn't right in any sense of the word about his trivial and mistaken criticism of Obama's spelling of the word "flack" (or "flak"). Did you even read the Media Matters piece?

    But generally it is not a good idea to repeat lies by right wingers as if they were true, which is what it sounded like you were doing.

    [ Parent ]

    Humiliate? (none / 0) (#85)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:41:40 AM EST
    Only if you think that someone who flies off the handle over a minor point "humiliates" the other person.  Generally I think they embarrass themselves.

    The moment in question was rude and did not follow decorum.  It was a "get these kids off my lawn" moment for McCain who thought that Obama wasn't worthy to address him.

    [ Parent ]

    you prove my point (none / 0) (#107)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:12:43 PM EST
    and raise another one--how is Obama going to "unite" McCain if McCain has so little respect for him?  How is he going to bring "change" to the many other senators and reps--from both parties--who view him as an arrogant upstart who has not paid his dues?

    hard to "inspire" people who think you are a kid...and treat you like one.

    [ Parent ]

    um (none / 0) (#115)
    by tsackton on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:58:55 PM EST
    Obama is not trying to UNITE with McCain, he is trying to DEFEAT McCain.

    [ Parent ]
    You're absolutely right (none / 0) (#120)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:07:06 PM EST
    Obama will not be able to unite with McCain.  There goes that Obama/McCain ticket I was so hopeful for.  

    I'm pretty sure that every single Democratic Senator will respect President Obama.  And the Republican Senators that don't deserve their fate.

    Quite the ageist observation from you, Kathy.  Then again, you don't don't care what it takes to beat Obama.  As long as he loses, you're fine.

    [ Parent ]

    It's ironic (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by Florida Resident on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:11:08 AM EST
    A soldier says something to senator of someone in his staff, and instead of using this information as a senator to start an investigation into the matter he uses during his campaign run,  If when I was in the military I ever expressed any concerns to a senator or representative it would have been to have him/her do something about it in Congress.  But then maybe he would have been better off if he had told Warner instead.

    hmm, well it does something important. (none / 0) (#32)
    by hellothere on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:38:42 AM EST
    by having this information and not starting an investigation but rather using it as talking point tells me a great deal about obama. things i'd rather not have to know but now do.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama said he "heard from" (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by PennProgressive on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:19:43 AM EST
    the Captain--which I took it as he himself had a conversation with the Captain. Otherwise he should have said "heard about a Caaptain and his platoon". Perhaps a minor point--but words do matter. Jeralyn, again thanks for a terrific post.

    Another demonstration of why Obama is an amateur (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by OxyCon on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:57:58 AM EST
    Obama didn't use this trumped up story to prove that he was ready to be President. He used this bogus story to attack Hillary with over her vote for the AUMF. Attacking Hillary was the only reason why he brought the story up, to make her look evil for her AUMF vote. It was a "see what Hillary's vote has done?" attack.
    Too bad for Obama, most of the story is bullcrap and now he's going to get his face rubbed in it.
    Obama got caught Bamboozling and Hoodwinking America.

    Umm (none / 0) (#70)
    by andrewwm on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:04:10 AM EST
    ...the vote for AUMF WAS evil. Or are we okay on people voting for the war now?

    It'd be one thing if Clinton apologized like Edwards did; it probably wouldn't be much of an issue now. But she's never even apologized for it or said what she did was wrong (only if I'd known then what I know now I would have voted differently).

    [ Parent ]

    This is a lie (none / 0) (#81)
    by Marvin42 on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:36:33 AM EST
    If she apologizes then she would be hit with "she admitted she was wrong, she is not qualified." I believe she was stuck like many democrats, trapped by a political maneuver. And now her own party can't see past the trap.

    Sen Obama was fortunate enough not to be in the senate at the time.

    [ Parent ]

    21 Democrats were able to not vote for the war. (none / 0) (#86)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:42:29 AM EST
    Doesn't seem that it was an impossible situation.

    [ Parent ]
    I think it depends on what you plan to do (none / 0) (#133)
    by Marvin42 on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 05:39:40 PM EST
    With the rest of your career and what your constituents are like. Do you consider for a moment that she was/is the Senator for New York? I am not saying the decision was right or wrong, but please, let's not use sound bites, let's talk about real world decisions. I rather have someone who makes real world decisions and get things done, than someone who promises whatever you want to hear, but can't get it done.

    [ Parent ]
    Can you provide (none / 0) (#87)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:43:25 AM EST
    an example of someone admitting error and then be excoriated for that error, in politics?  

    [ Parent ]
    John Edwards? (none / 0) (#89)
    by tsackton on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:45:56 AM EST
    There were a number of reasons his campaign never really took off, but I haven't heard anyone claim that apologizing for his Iraq War vote was one of them.

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly (none / 0) (#122)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:08:51 PM EST
    Just about every Democrat I know thought that he did the right thing and criticized Hillary for not doing the same. Admitting that you made an error sends a message to Democratic voters that you won't do it again.

    [ Parent ]
    I voted for it (none / 0) (#134)
    by Marvin42 on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 05:40:17 PM EST
    Before I voted against it. Come on.

    [ Parent ]
    You could also posit (none / 0) (#90)
    by obscure on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:47:47 AM EST
    If you go by that reasoning, you could easily say that "she doesn't think she was wrong, so she's not qualified because of the obvious consequences of her choice."

    Her follow-up votes, including Kyl-Leiberman, can go a long way to suggest a pattern in her reasoning that a person could reasonably object to. All of this without hating Clinton in the slightest.

    [ Parent ]

    And how did Obama vote on that bill? (nt) (none / 0) (#112)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:41:17 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Kyl-Lieberman (none / 0) (#116)
    by tsackton on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:59:32 PM EST
    He was against it.

    [ Parent ]
    Kyl-Lieberman (none / 0) (#126)
    by cmugirl on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:15:06 PM EST
    Right.  The point was, he was too busy campaigning in New Hampshire to go go and VOTE against KL.  It's a lot easier to criticize when you don't put your money where your mouth is and actually take a stand.

    [ Parent ]
    The story (none / 0) (#72)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:05:06 AM EST
    has been confirmed by two news outlets.

    [ Parent ]
    I shouldn't need to say this (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by chemoelectric on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 12:21:32 PM EST
    The "Commander in Chief" does not lead the country, he issues orders to the military. Don't think like a Bushist!

    The President as head of state leads the country, one could say.

    Here's what I'd like to hear from a C-in-C (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by tnthorpe on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:44:50 PM EST
    "I'm going to cut the military budget by more than half, withdraw from the majority of our overseas bases, and let Europe and Asia spend themselves into the same bankrupt state this country has been forced into by successive Rep and Dem administrations that have increasingly militarized our democracy. It seems that folk forget that the reason a civilian was put in charge of the military was so that the military would not be able to control the country's politics. It's time to put an end to militarization and start to build America up again."

    (Does anyone even read Eisenhower's farewell speech anymore?)

    Can't imagine either candidate making that decision, but then with Clinton's vote on the war, Obama's and Clinton's votes on its continued funding, and their statements on the need for expanding military spending, why would I?

    From my admittedly left pov, neither are the C-in-C I prefer.

    I also wonder... (none / 0) (#6)
    by reynwrap582 on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 04:45:29 AM EST
    Was the Captain's statement really given to Obama to use as a campaign anecdote?  It seems strange to me that the Captain would give him the story, tell them they can use it how they'd like, but then request absolute anonymity.  It's not like there's an infinite amount of people who were under the same circumstances as this guy, and the military will no doubt be able to figure out who it was if they really want to penalize him for it.  Maybe he just wants anonymity from the media so Limbaugh and his clowns don't go after him.  (I originally meant to type clones but it came out clowns and I decided that that fit equally as well)

    I'm just hoping that the Captain was expecting them to use the story like they did and that they didn't just accidentally out him.  There's a big difference between saying "this is my story just so you know what's happening" and "this is my story so you can talk specifically about it in your campaign."

    btw Jeralyn, fan-freaking-tastic post.  I'm going to forward this along to some people.

    This Captain's no dummy for (none / 0) (#29)
    by scribe on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:23:18 AM EST
    wanting to retain his anonymity.  The Pentagon wants to "talk to him" so they can destroy his career for being honest.  They've done it before and they'll do it again.

    Here's what I hope the Captain did, as a Lieutenant and since - kept his "notebook".  If he did, and kept his notebook the way you're supposed to, he'll have no problem corroborating from contemporaneous records at least the personnel transfers out.  

    When I served, we were taught to keep a notebook in which you were to record everything about the men under your command.  Name, current rank,  SSN, hometown, date of birth, last promotion, next of kin and their addresses, job position, shirt size, boot size, pants size, gas mask size, date into the unit, expected date out of the unit ... everything.  You were supposed to keep this updated by having your subordinate leaders - the sergeants - do the same for each of the men under their leadership and make a copy for you, which you would then copy by hand into your book.  

    If (and it's a big if) he kept such a notebook, it would show the transfers out of the unit, and no replacements in.

    The point of having such a book was that you could then cross-tab it to know, for example, "my platoon needs x pairs of boots in size 9 1/2, y in 10" and so on, to speed resupply and such.  But the more important function was making you know your subordinates.  That came from copying it by hand.

    The idea of copying it by hand was that when you write something, you have to make the mental effort to write it down and that make a far greater impression on you than does just getting a piece of paper and inserting it in a looseleaf binder.

    Not everyone keeps such a notebook, and not everyone who does, does it well.  It's a colossal pain to get started, though not as much of one to keep going.  And, it's not a job "requirement" per se (or at least it wasn't).

    But it would be a serious buttress in favor of his statement if it were.

    [ Parent ]

    How is an officer ever to get (none / 0) (#114)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:53:39 PM EST
    the supplies s/he says s/he needs if it's only in a notebook (very useful info there), if s/he only calls a candidate (he ought to call McCain and Clinton, too -- would that help for cover?  or maybe Wes Clark?), if s/he does not tell the Pentagon now that it is spotlighted?

    I fully understand fear of what it could do to a military career -- but the needs of the troops trump that, don't they?  I really am trying to follow this, as I was married to a Vietnam War officer, so I know how difficult this can be.

    [ Parent ]

    More to this... (none / 0) (#7)
    by OrangeFur on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 05:07:09 AM EST
    Right after the quote you mentioned, Obama said this:

    "I said this is going to distract us from Afghanistan; this is going to fan the flames of anti-American sentiment; it's going to cost us billions of dollars and thousands of lives and overstretch our military. And I was right."

    He's exaggerating here, too. His 2002 speech didn't mention thousands of lives and overstretching the military. I don't think anyone was predicting that level of casualties.

    This seems to be a habit of his--for example, claiming to have passed a law about nuclear emissions, when in fact it never passed.

    It's also probably more accurate for him to say that he opposed the war "at the beginning", not "from the beginning." He certainly hasn't done much in the Senate to oppose it.

    Sure he did. (none / 0) (#9)
    by jdmccuistion on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 05:44:22 AM EST
    I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda.

    I'd say he hit the nail on the head from the beginning.  He didn't use the specific words "thousands of lives", but that doesn't seem to matter because this entire "issue" is about semantics anyway.

    The point he was making is this: Iraq distracted us from the real war, the one against Al-Qaeda.  Obama has asserted that he intends to get out of Iraq and refocus on the organization that actually attacked us instead of creating new bogeymen to chase since we can't find the real ones.  Since the POTUS isn't supposed to be directly overseeing every platoon in the armed forces, I'll be satisfied just to have one with a decent grasp of which country to deploy the troops to when needed.

    The question about his legislative record in support of the military is a valid one, I'd like to see some answers.

    [ Parent ]

    Question. (1.00 / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 07:45:56 AM EST
    I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world,

    Can anyone show us any of those "best" impulses? I haven't seen any of those, and I am specifically including the years prior to the invasion.

    [ Parent ]

    In the words of Fred Flintstone... (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by manys on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:13:46 AM EST
    Droll, Jim. Very droll.

    It's not an admirable quality to profess willful ignorance about a culture with which the US shares a difficult future.

    [ Parent ]

    No "thousands of lives" (none / 0) (#131)
    by OrangeFur on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 04:28:08 PM EST
    That's a very specific claim he said he made. And he didn't make it.

    I'm not denying that he was right on some things. But he's giving himself a lot more credit than he deserves, which seems to be something of a pattern for him.

    [ Parent ]

    Or ... (none / 0) (#13)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 07:11:15 AM EST
    "before it began" and then was relatively silent for more than a year.

    [ Parent ]
    What's he done? (none / 0) (#11)
    by dmk47 on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 06:41:43 AM EST
    Lugar-Obama.

    According to Joseph Cirincione, Director for Nuclear Policy at the Center for American Progress, Obama has the most comprehensive, far-reaching, detailed nuclear non-proliferation program of anyone running. I'd say that's about the single most important feature of national security policy.

    What has he done about it so far? (none / 0) (#132)
    by OrangeFur on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 04:28:55 PM EST
    Other than appropriating some $40 million for it with Lugar?

    [ Parent ]
    We Need a New Commander in Chief (none / 0) (#14)
    by barryluda on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 07:31:52 AM EST
    Wow!  Jeralyn sets out a very powerful list of Clinton's accomplishments.  I don't know how to find a comprehensive list of Obama's accomplishments that support his ability to be our next commander in chief, but here're a few examples I looked up online this morning:

    I believe one of the biggest reasons we are at risk due to our existing commander in chief's failed policies is our continued over-dependence on foreign oil.  So, when you look at what Obama and Clinton have done in this area, you see Obama has introduced four, solid energy bills including S.133 which would promote national security by reducing our dependence on foreign oil through the use of alternative fuels and new technology.  He also introduced legislation to provide incentives to the auto industry to accelerate efforts to develop more energy-efficient vehicles, and permanently modify the IRS code to repeal tax breaks for the oil and gas industry.  And Obama worked together with other senators; for example, S.133 was co-sponsored by Harkin, Lugar and Salazar.  Clinton, in contrast, seems to have introduced just one bill, S.701, a temporary fix to impose a short term oil profit fee, and had no co-sponsors on the bill.

    On Iran Obama introduced a joint resolution (S.J.RES.23) stating that the use of force against Iran is not authorized by the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq, any resolution previously adopted, or any other provision of law.  He introduced a bill (S.1084) to provide housing assistance for very low-income veterans.  And on global terrorism he introduced a bill (S.1977) providing for sustained United States leadership in a cooperative global effort to prevent nuclear terrorism, reduce global nuclear arsenals, stop the spread of nuclear weapons and related material and technology, and support the responsible and peaceful use of nuclear technology.

    And we need someone able to stand up against torture.  You can read on this post -- http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/02/obama-actually.html -- about how Obama as an Illinois State senator, showed the leadership and guts to get important things done.  As Mark Kleiman is quoted in the blog: "Standing up for the rights of accused criminals in a contemporary American legislature requires brass balls."  Obama was able to work across aisles and with our crazy Governor Blagojevich, who initially said that he was against it, to pass legislation requiring that interrogations and confessions be videotaped.

    Bottom line to me is that both Clinton and Obama agree much, much more than they disagree.  I would be extremly happy with either one as President.  But my personal opinion is that Obama would be able to build the type of consensus we need to start to undo the damage done by eight years of Bush.  Of course, Clinton would also help us undo that damage.  I just hope that the next several weeks (or months) of fighting among democrats doesn't serve to give us President McCain.


    The "consensus-building" myth (none / 0) (#16)
    by ajain on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 08:14:20 AM EST
    This just annoys me.
    I mean firstly, what proof is there that he has done that before? Secondly, what proof is there that Hillary Clinton has not done that and will not be able to do that?

    [ Parent ]
    Consensus building (none / 0) (#17)
    by barryluda on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 08:33:50 AM EST
    Did you read my post with an open mind?  My points wasn't that Clinton couldn't build a consensus.  In fact, I think Jeralyn did a good job of setting out many data points that support that she could build consensus and be a great President.  When I passed on the story about what Obama did as an Illinois State Senator, my point was just to give a data point (proof) that he could build a consensus about something I think is important (the rights of accused criminals).


    [ Parent ]
    I suspect (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 08:43:12 AM EST
    I suspect that it's much easier to build consensus at the state level than it is at the federal level.  I've never worked in Congress at either level, but I suspect that priorities and interests of congresspeople at the state level are far more "consolidated" than they are at the federal level.

    [ Parent ]
    Not necessarily (none / 0) (#26)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:14:21 AM EST
    But certainly so in Illinois, for the Daley machine.

    [ Parent ]
    Are you from Illinois? (none / 0) (#76)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:20:58 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Just north of it. Why? (nt) (none / 0) (#96)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 12:03:16 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I ask because the Daley Machine was actually (none / 0) (#98)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 12:11:34 PM EST
    opposed to Obama who ran against its candidates and then only grudgingly for him but people who aren't from around here might not know that.

    [ Parent ]
    Michelle Obama worked (none / 0) (#105)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 12:38:57 PM EST
    for the Daley machine, his way into it, just for starters.  I read the Trib.  What are your sources for what I have to say is an astonishing assertion?

    [ Parent ]
    I live here. Take a look at who he ran against. (none / 0) (#124)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:10:42 PM EST
    Working for the city doesn't mean you work for the machine.

    [ Parent ]
    very easy to build a consensus (none / 0) (#21)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 08:59:24 AM EST
    when you have the Daly machine behind you.

    [ Parent ]
    The Daley Machine doesn't run the state nor (none / 0) (#79)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:32:31 AM EST
    did it support Obama who ran against its candidates.

    [ Parent ]
    You have been called incorrect twice now (none / 0) (#108)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:15:34 PM EST
    and have been asked to prove otherwise.

    Michelle Obama worked in the Daly machine, yet they did not support Obama?

    [ Parent ]

    I live in Chicago so that's funny. (none / 0) (#125)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:12:37 PM EST
    Working for the City does not mean you're part of the political machine. I know plenty of people who work for the city who aren't politically connected. He ran against the politically connected players.

    [ Parent ]
    You're off topic (none / 0) (#118)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:04:51 PM EST
    take it to an open thread. Copy and paste your comments there so these can be deleted.

    [ Parent ]
    He was not about to lose his (none / 0) (#20)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 08:58:48 AM EST
    state senate seat trying to do any of those things.  He is from a very, very liberal district and basically had no opposition to his seat.  When it came time to take stands on things that might nail him down too much politically, he voted present-against the wishes of IL PP.

    And it's nice that he has talked about all these new laws he wanted to get through the senate, but the fact remains that he COULD NOT get them through.  

    Also, considering he voted for Cheney's energy policy, the "love letter to the nuclear industry," what you are saying about all of his failed legislation above doesn't matter, because those bills he introduced were all talk--when it came time to walk, he walked for nuclear.

    [ Parent ]

    Against the wishes of ILPP? That's either (none / 0) (#94)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:52:22 AM EST
    an error on your part or a falsehood. ILPP made it clear that they worked with Senator Obama on the tactic.

    [ Parent ]
    IL PP (none / 0) (#109)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:19:02 PM EST
    made it clear that Obama was under no risk of jeopardizing his seat and wanted him to vote for them on the bill.

    He represented one of the most liberal districts in IL.  He challenged all contenders in the first election and got them kicked off the ballot so he could run uncontested (see: Alice Palmer) then in his next election, he ran against  (and I use the term loosely) Alan Keyes.  His seat was completely and absolutely secure, so there was no reason for him NOT to take a stand...except that it would have meant going on record, which of course Obama never really does.

    "I voted against the war" when he actually did not vote.
    "I passed nuclear legislation" which he did not actually get passed.
    "I voted present because they asked me to" which they did not ask.

    [ Parent ]

    IL PP (none / 0) (#117)
    by tsackton on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:01:57 PM EST
    IL PP and IL NOW had different strategies on the present vote. Planned Parenthood asked Obama to vote "present", NOW asked Obama to vote no (present = no in the IL Senate).

    Obama went with PP, not NOW.

    [ Parent ]

    off topic (none / 0) (#119)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:05:16 PM EST
    take it to an open thread

    [ Parent ]
    So you're retracting your statement (none / 0) (#123)
    by RLMcCauley on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:09:48 PM EST
    about ILPP being against the tactic he worked with them on?

    The point was to provide cover for others not himself. He was part of the plan and it wouldn't have helped if only the people really at risk voted present.  It would have been obvious.

    [ Parent ]

    Do you still have the links for the info you (none / 0) (#47)
    by jawbone on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:35:31 AM EST
    found this morning? I know I'm being lazy, but since your history probably still has the sites and links, it would save time for us if you could add them to your post.

    Thnx much!

    [ Parent ]

    add'l info (none / 0) (#57)
    by txyellowdawg on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:46:42 AM EST
    Senator Clinton co-sponsors Webb Legislation Prohibiting the Use of Funds for Military Operations In Iran (S. 759).

    Congress Passes Dodd-Clinton Amendment to Expand Family and Medical Leave Benefits to Wounded Soldiers and Their Families, sept 2007

    [ Parent ]

    I intentionally didn't include (none / 0) (#100)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 12:17:36 PM EST
    all of her legislation regarding benefits for troops and their families and veterans, considering that social legislation rather than legislation that pertains to  being commander in chief.

    [ Parent ]
    Why is the Pentagon (none / 0) (#22)
    by bob h on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 08:59:34 AM EST
    getting involved in a political campaign at all?
    One of the first orders of business for Hillary or Obama should be to start firing at the top there and keep it up until a Democrat is found.

    You're advocating a political purge???? (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by ineedalife on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:14:59 AM EST
    Don't you see how ridiculous your statement is? Maybe George Bush should be purging the military until only Republicans are left.

    By accusing the military of serious staffing and supply issues threatening the safety and effectiveness of the troops Obama has put the Pentagon into a position that they must investigate. This is a serious issue. The congressional oversight committees must investigate.

    Of course Obama could save them a lot of time and money by owning up to just trying to score a cheap political point. But I don't see that happening.

    [ Parent ]

    so are you advocating (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by tsackton on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:25:38 AM EST
    that the next President should leave a bunch of Bush loyalists in positions of responsibility at the Pentagon? That is a pretty crazy idea, don't you think?

    Bush and Cheney have managed to very effectively erode the civil service, the next President can't just go in and pretend that didn't happen. They have to go in and fix it by clearing out all the political hacks and starting again.

    [ Parent ]

    I would advocate that, sure. (none / 0) (#77)
    by manys on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:21:16 AM EST
    I don't think the solution to Bush loyalists is to replace them with loyalists of your own. This is the see-saw of dominance that does nobody any good. Nobody outside the corridors of power, anyway.

    [ Parent ]
    surely (none / 0) (#82)
    by tsackton on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:39:04 AM EST
    the solution isn't just leave them there, either. Notice I said that the next President needs to clean out the political hacks. I did NOT say that the next President needs to replace one set of political hacks with another.

    [ Parent ]
    Bryan Whitman is a Loyal Bushie. (none / 0) (#35)
    by tbetz on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:45:09 AM EST
    This is the same guy who was pushing the fabricated attack by the small boats in the Straits of Hormuz.

    He speaks for the Office of Special Plans cabal in the Pentagon.

    Josh Marshall has the facts:

    It would appear that we have another case where the Bush Pentagon, particularly the Office of Public Affairs is forcefully inserting itself into the civilian election process.  Earlier today I referenced Barack Obama's anecdote from Thursday night's Democratic debate about an Army Captain in Afghanistan who said his unit had had to get from captured Taliban ammunition they weren't able to get quickly enough through standard Army supply channels.  ABCNews' Jake Tapper talked to the soldier in question, who confirmed the story he'd told Obama.   Now NBC News also appears to have confirmed the story by talking to the Army Captain in question.

    But Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman is telling reporters he doesn't think it's true and that of course they can't confirm it unless the soldier -- still on active duty -- comes forward to discuss the issue with the Pentagon brass, a step that would surely do wonders for his future in the Army.

    I don't know how far this is going to go.  Phillip Carter, the military affairs writer who's in the reserves and did a tour in Iraq, says that from his own experience in Iraq and discussions with Afghanistan vets who report doing the same thing as the anonymous captain, he finds the story "eminently believable."  But this is becoming a pattern in which political appointees at the Bush Pentagon volubly insert themselves into domestic political debate or even election campaigns.

    Expect this to be a major factor in this year's election campaign.



    [