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Coverage Of The Dem Results In Florida

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:01:12 PM EST
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NBC is at pains to NOT report the Dem results in Florida. Let's be clear, this is NOT a normal primary. There was no campaigning (though Obama ran a national ad and that reached Florida, and union allies for Clinton and Obama dropped literature in Florida). The DNC has ruled that no delegates will be awarded, though it is clear that it will be the Dem convention that makes that decision. It is not a win like Obama's in South Carolina.

But a lot of people voted. Indeed, Hillary is likely to have TWICE as many people vote for her than watch Keith Olbermann's program. It ill behooves them to ridicule the votes of Floridians who outnumber MSNBC viewers by a factor of 4. IF we start playing THAT numbers game, then let's all make fun of MSNBC's viewership.

MSNBC is now providing punditcasts, not newscasts. Indeed, it is providing information that is simply false. For example, Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann labelled the vote "illegal." Here's a newsflash NBC, a political party is not sovereign. It does not pass laws. That would be governments that do that. And the Florida primary was enacted by the Florida state government in CONTRAVENTION of both Republican and Democratic Party rules. The penalties were different. Is the Republican primary "illegal?"

I know this is a quaint idea, but it would be nice if a "news" organization actually did not report falsehoods. But to call MSNBC a newss organization regarding this election is now a joke. CNN handled the coverage properly in my opinion.

< Florida Primary Results: First Live Thread | John McCain Wins Florida -- FL. Live Thread Two >

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    Coverage Of The Dem Results In Florida | 124 comments (124 topical)

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    And a dkos (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:04:32 PM EST
    dancing over the disenfranchisement. Some people really disgust me.

    It's truly bizarre (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by spit on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:12:38 PM EST
    to watch supposed progressives dance over the fact that a popular vote is rendered utterly meaningless because of delegates.

    [ Parent ]
    Nearly 2,000,000 Democratic voters (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Teresa on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:07:28 PM EST
    or more will have voted tonight. How can we not consider that important even if the delegates don't count until after the fact. Do we not even want to win Florida in November?

    Tacky alert... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:21:32 PM EST
    Hillary married better.

    ROFL!!! (none / 0) (#29)
    by athyrio on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:29:06 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    ooooooh! (none / 0) (#31)
    by Judith on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:29:35 PM EST
    tacky.

    but true.

    But I have to admit that I cant stand Huffington so all my posts are slanted.

    [ Parent ]

    Yup. Judgment. (none / 0) (#76)
    by oldpro on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:52:45 PM EST
    A remarkable choice, really, for the smartest and most accomplished young woman in her class to marry up with a kid from the wrong side of the tracks from hicksville, Arkansas.  Admittedly a charmer and Rhodes-scholar smart...but still...not the choice most young women in her place would have made in those days.  Clearly they were well-suited to one another with similar goals and talents they could meld to achieve them.

    Arianna?  Took her a looooong time to get it together and even so...she runs for Governor of California with no preparation whatsoever?  Judgment highly questionable on a number of fronts...but brains to spare.  Yes...she's probably envious of Hil on some level.  Same for Modo.

    [ Parent ]

    I admire Hillary (none / 0) (#87)
    by byteb on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:12:47 PM EST
    but I never 'got'the swoon thing regarding Bill. And I never understood why she stayed with him.

    [ Parent ]
    bad boy attraction? (none / 0) (#90)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:23:47 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    yes, maybe... (none / 0) (#97)
    by byteb on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:39:20 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    "The swoon thing" cannot be (none / 0) (#108)
    by oldpro on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:08:56 AM EST
    explained...I never got it either re Bill but I know lots of people who did...both men and women...sensible, rational, thoughtful people...who somehow get starstruck.  Hasn't happened to me since teenage movie-star crushes...part of growing up, for girls at least.  I've been in Bill's presence a couple of times...nope...no vibes but I watched the crowd around me and it reminded me of 'the Kennedy thing' and I saw that 'up close and personal' too.  Same thing.  The room was electric with it.  American Idol.

    However...why she stayed with him is perfectly understandable.  Love and devotion and a lifetime of shared goals, values and challenges have been invested each in the other...so, yes...even to a flawed, pleasure-driven, needy man who cannot control his impulses.  I've got news for you...he's not out of the mainstream in that regard and every grownup knows it.  There aren't 2 men in a hundred who would have passed up the intern camp-follower/stalker who sashayed into his office with a pizza...the risk of discovery is part of the thrill.

    I can judge this dispassionately, I think, because I was married, only once, for a few months short of 30 years to a flawed (is there any other kind?) but terrific guy who I do not think ever cheated on me.  But if he had...hard as that would be...I would not have left him.  No way.  And now, I've been a widow for 20 years and lived a very different single life...much of it in politics!

    [ Parent ]

    I think she stays with him (none / 0) (#120)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 01:42:57 PM EST
    because they are noth exceptionally intelligent, have the same interests, have bonded throught taking the unfair attacks by the vicous rightwing etc....and that makes for a great companionship and friendship.  

    [ Parent ]
    Yup. (none / 0) (#122)
    by oldpro on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:40:57 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Hillary married better (none / 0) (#116)
    by portialeigh on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:49:52 AM EST
    The comment on Huffington is what I have been thinking all along about Hillary married better.  I really trust "The Huff's" knowledge and judgement.  Especially since her choice of a mate was a Gay Republican on the "down low."

    [ Parent ]
    The whole holier-than-thou posing from the Obama (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by RalphB on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:31:10 PM EST
    campaign, abetted by the stinking media, is really starting to hack me off big time.  It's too phony for words and insults all our intelligence.
    But! (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by Kathy on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:58:25 PM EST
    They would'a won if they'd been able to campaign!!!  And don't tell me that the statistics show he got the same percentages of whites and blacks that he got in SC.  Obometry says he is the WINNAH!

    [ Parent ]
    Right! (none / 0) (#58)
    by RalphB on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:12:51 PM EST
    I'm looking forward to Feb 5th.  If CNN's exit polling is right, Obometry is toasty.


    [ Parent ]
    I read something today, maybe on Huff Post, (none / 0) (#67)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:33:00 PM EST
    saying Obama campaign is looking to clean up after Super Tues.

    [ Parent ]
    post Super Tues clean up (none / 0) (#81)
    by Kathy on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:57:13 PM EST
    How would that shake out?  What delegate count are we looking at?

    [ Parent ]
    Could be dramatic... (none / 0) (#86)
    by oldpro on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:10:46 PM EST
    ...in my state (Wash.) we have caucuses right after SuperTues.  The state party is telling us to plan for another huge turnout because no one thinks it will be over and our delegates could be significant.  Several of our super delegates are for Hillary...others uncommitted, watching and waiting.

    [ Parent ]
    Same in my state, Wisconsin, 2 weeks after 2/5 (none / 0) (#93)
    by Cream City on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:33:58 PM EST
    and we're a high-turnout state anytime.

    Polls were extremely pro-Clinton here, but polls are out of date, as we weren't expected to matter.

    As ever here, though, especially in mid-February, turnout will be about the weather.  If it's a day like today, we will have to vote early.  In the last 5 hours before poll-closing time, if we were voting today, it dropped 50 degrees.  To zero.

    And with winds gusting over 50 mph, the wind chill is . . . not favorable to Dem voting.:-)

    [ Parent ]

    You aren't opining Dem. voters are (none / 0) (#95)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:36:12 PM EST
    weather wimps are you?  I thought all those types moved to CA long ago, or is that the myth promulgated by Garrison Keillor?

    [ Parent ]
    The weather wimps in WA State (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by oldpro on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:25:59 AM EST
    are Californians who moved north after selling their over-priced homes in CA, retired to play golf, fish, sail etc. etc. in the gorgeous and usually mild northwest, and never stop whining about it.  Jeez...they wear wool on days we don't even wear long sleeves!

    [ Parent ]
    I hear that from relatives there (none / 0) (#117)
    by Cream City on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 12:34:34 PM EST
    as my mother was from Spokane, and I have lots of family there and in Seattle for generations now.

    Btw, Washington state grows some great, tough women.  Patty Murray reminds me of my late, great Mom. :-)

    [ Parent ]

    I worked on Patty's first campaign (none / 0) (#119)
    by oldpro on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 12:57:52 PM EST
    campaign in '92...and Maria Cantwell's...in fact I was in the draft Maria movement and we beat Rep. Senator Gorton by 2200 votes...a murderous campaign.  Maria has endorsed Hillary.

    Yes...we are proud women...I remember when we eaked out our Gov's race 4 years ago with 139 vote margin ... 2 recounts and a court challenge...and TIME mag had a photo of the gov and our two female senators with the headline "Girls' State!"  Now Chris Gregoire is up for reelection and it will be a nasty one -- a rematch with a smarmy guy who came so close to beating her.  It was ugly then and it will be again.

    Washington is usually number one or two in the nation with female elected officials.  At the legislature, all the top positions are held by women except Speaker of the House and that is a story in itself...but for another time!

    Weatherwise...we have snow today!  Yikes!  Cold.  But now the sun is breaking through and John Edwards is on the TV withdrawing from the race...time to focus...

    [ Parent ]

    And tennis-shoes Patty just endorsed Clinton (none / 0) (#121)
    by Cream City on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:03:21 PM EST
    as you no doubt know, but I'm delighted to see it -- still feeling, as I do, sorta like a Washington Stater.  Btw, every time my Mom flew home over her beloved Cascades, she cried, she said.  When I got to see them, I could see why.  And then I got to see the Couer d'Alene, near where my Mom was born in Idaho, and I was in awe.  We have got some gorgeous country where I come from, but what we call our state's "mountain," all of about 500 feet high, causes my West Coast relatives to crack up.

    Of course, they crack up us when they call us Easterners.  We're not used to that, here in the Heartland!

    [ Parent ]

    We're tough. Until that word . . . (none / 0) (#103)
    by Cream City on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 01:32:35 AM EST
    BLIZZARD.  That's what we have tonight -- and total whiteout tells us wiser ones to keep off the roads, leaving 'em to the FIPs.

    (Ahem, that translates to, um, Foolish Illinois Persons.  The worst of 'em being Chicagoans.  We will see what that means for Obama in our primary.  He could escape the ignominy of being seen as a FIP, of course, if he deviated radically from their norm in driving here and actually signalled before switching lanes.  Number-one sign of a FIP.)

    [ Parent ]

    Ah yes...I remember Wisconsin... (none / 0) (#111)
    by oldpro on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:21:40 AM EST
    vaguely.  Army brats, we lived in La Crosse...left when I was 10.  Too hot in the summer, too cold in the winter.  My mother nearly died of...maladaptation?  The kids loved it.  Lovely Indian summers.  And fireflies!  Or am I remembering Michigan? hmmmm...same thing, probably!

    [ Parent ]
    Ah, Wah Wah Tay Sees (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Cream City on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 12:39:57 PM EST
    (Native term for fireflies.  If only the mosquito, our state bird, came with such a warning system.:-)

    LaCrosse is so lovely!  Anywhere on the Upper Mississippi is so -- my favorite is Prairie du Chien, such an ancient French fur trading town.  But LaCrosse has some of that cultural legacy plus it's a bit trender with the Twin Cities crowd there.

    And yes, on the other side of the state, Wisconsin and Michigan are much alike in many ways -- and especially the UP, where they really are Wisconsinites traded away in the infamous Toledo War.  Da Yoopers dere still see themselves as quite different from the lower Michiganders -- whom da Yoopers call "trolls," because lower Michiganders live below the bridge . . . the 5-mile-long bridge that finally connected the two Michigans only 50 years ago.  It is one SCARY bridge in bad weather, which they have a lot of up dere, hey!


    [ Parent ]

    Sounds like FL (none / 0) (#113)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:29:31 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    very true, however it is to our advantage (none / 0) (#114)
    by hellothere on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:40:48 AM EST
    for them to believe their own press. that way they including obama continue to make mistakes. i was reminded of a comment by stepfather, an boxer in his younger days, said to me. get your opponent mad, then they make bad decisons. hillary was up and ready to go. she put obama into a situation at the state of the union speech. she already had her hand out to shake hands with teddy. she had a big smile while obama looks sullen. she won!

    [ Parent ]
    The big democrat (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by talkingpoint on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:43:52 PM EST
    leaders is clearly supporting Obama, but the people are supporting Hillary. I believe that the people voices are stronger, so the people should replace them. As for Teddy Kennedy and John Kerry they are just jealous of the Clintons, and wish they can claim their last names. The Lawyer from Arkansas and his wife came to Washington and dominated, and many in their own party envy them.

    From a 23 year old (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:48:08 PM EST
    my daughter just called and did a whole rant about change. This was her analogy. What change? After the drunken Bush frat party, we need to clean up. It will take us years to clean up before we can even start with change. It's like trying to redecorate when the foundations were destroyed in a 7.5 quake. Ahh....youth.

    [ Parent ]
    My 26-year-old daughter is (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Cream City on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:58:14 PM EST
    so committed for Clinton, and she can detail why and on which issues.  This is not my wonky, studious one.  FAR from it.  But she is so excited about this.

    I think maybe she was listening to her wonky mother all these years, after all, and especially about family issues, economic issues, etc.

    Hang in there.  Heck, both of mine could vote for the first time in 2000 and voted for Nader.

    (It really was too bad for them and so many of their friends who finally saw what they had done -- and some got discouraged about ever voting again.  But I took it easy on my kids for that and just kept talking them through how to vote wisely, to make sure their votes matter . . . and they bounced back and went to the polls again.  With me -- as I made sure to take them with me every time, throughout their lives.  It's the way to raise citizens . . . and you have done that.)

    [ Parent ]

    Can't speak for mine, but I know voted (none / 0) (#91)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:25:36 PM EST
    for Bush on 2000 and vocally supported going into Iraq.  Not now though.

    [ Parent ]
    Stellaaa (none / 0) (#47)
    by Kathy on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:58:50 PM EST
    ...and who usually does the cleaning?

    Hint: it ain't the men

    [ Parent ]

    No one seems to be disagreeing w/you. (none / 0) (#92)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:26:09 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    anytime the American people (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by athyrio on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:04:27 PM EST
    come together and vote in a respectful fashion...It is not a joke it is a primary and should be respected and not called names..To believe otherwise is a travesty of democracy...

    Complain!! (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by BernieO on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:12:16 PM EST
    Email msnbc (letters@msnbc.com) and CNN to complain that they are insulting the voters of Florida just like they insulted the voters in NH by implying they were racist in order to cover their own atrocious behavior.
    Of the two networks lately CNN seems more balanced. I am seeing a lot of posts complaining about it and saying they are giving up on MSNBC.

    [ Parent ]
    this is the letter I just sent MSNBC (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by athyrio on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:28:40 PM EST
    You used to be my favorite news channel....
    However tonight you have overstepped your bounds and I can no longer call you a newsagency...I hope and pray for your demise as quickly as possible....Remember one thing...More democrats voted for Hillary Clinton tonight than you have viewers....

    [ Parent ]
    Don't forget to call the DNC too! (none / 0) (#66)
    by BluestBlue on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:32:13 PM EST
    Let them know what you think of the biased coverage and let them know what you think of them disenfranchising all those fellow Democrats in Florida and Michigan!

    They need to stand up for our candidates when the media is biased and they should be protecting Democratic votes.

    phone # for DNC: 1-877-336-7200.

    [ Parent ]

    athyrio (none / 0) (#56)
    by Kathy on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:11:56 PM EST
    I am with you, and cannot imagine what it would be like if Obama was the one who won this thing.  People would be saying it was over for Hillary.  Very depressing how this is shaking out.

    Clinton interview on CNN (which I am sure they will get bashed for tomorrow...).  Wolf asked her if she would file a lawsuit to seat delegates from FL and MI come Denver.  She said he was getting ahead of himself.

    I have heard a couple of times tonight the statement from Clinton and her folks, "We will ask her delegates to make sure the FL and MI delegates get seated."  So, if she has a delegate majority, then she gets to have them seated, right?

    [ Parent ]

    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by BernieO on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:09:09 PM EST
    I really do think that Arianna is jealous. She was a political wife (Republican) who was reputed to be more ambitious than her husband. Her marriage collapsed when he came out of the closet. She has watched Hillary follow the path she had planned for herself.
    Also, even though she often says good things, I am beginning to think she is kind of a gadfly. Her website keeps including more and more fluff and entertainment.
    I am always suspicious of adults who flip from conservative to liberal. They tend to go from one extreme to the other. That is what so many neocons have done.

    that's funny (none / 0) (#2)
    by white n az on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:06:39 PM EST
    I never thought of things that way but yeah, it makes sense

    speaking of disenfranchisement (none / 0) (#4)
    by javaman on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:09:40 PM EST
    The clinton's tried to close all the caucus sites on the LV strip, even though they still won, do anything to win anything

    Edwards o8

    Wrong twice. (5.00 / 0) (#15)
    by ding7777 on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:19:45 PM EST
    The Clintons did not instigate the suit.

    The at-large caucuses were selective - the giant hotels tried to game the delegates for its own interests

    [ Parent ]

    the American People obviously don't want Obama... (none / 0) (#7)
    by athyrio on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:12:03 PM EST
    It is obvious no matter how many news broadcast sites ignore Hillary and put her down, she is popular with the American people....and they are the ones that chose who they want....

    [ Parent ]
    Obvious? Soon it will be. (none / 0) (#71)
    by fullcircle on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:45:07 PM EST
    Obama has won 2, Hillary has won 3 if you include Florida. Hardly a commanding lead.

    The press can ignore to their heart's content to keep their illusion of control over this thing, but come February 5 it is VERY likely they won't have any choice but to acknowledge the front runner.

    Once this race busts open, the press will lose all control and I think that is at least part of why they are not very happy with all of the early primaries. They could make a lot more money off of a protracted race, but once the winner is obvious people will quickly turn away from the news channels. 22 states at one shot, if any candidates come out of this with a commanding lead the rest of the race is just Democrat versus Republicans.

    [ Parent ]

    Grr (none / 0) (#5)
    by chrisvee on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:10:39 PM EST
    The coverage of this primary and the misinformation that is being spread in the media is ridiculous.  

    Bill Bennett just claimed that Clinton 'ambushed' Obama.  He likened it to a football team telling an opponent that the game was off, but showing up anyway and then claiming victory by default.

    Clinton showed up (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:11:52 PM EST
    AFTER the game.

    Bennett is lying.

    [ Parent ]

    Like your take on mocking MSNBC, and (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Cream City on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:27:33 PM EST
    I suggest we call MSNBC a "beauty contest," too.

    Of course, its contestants are looking just ugly.

    [ Parent ]

    I would call it a TV show (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:29:12 PM EST
    but NOT a news broadcast.

    [ Parent ]
    If Obama was worried (none / 0) (#51)
    by Kathy on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:03:08 PM EST
    about Clinton name-recognition, why did he tell folks last year in Florida that he'd put their delegates back into play when he won?

    Hubris.  Isn't that what the "H" stands for?

    [ Parent ]

    Obama ran ads in Florida (5.00 / 0) (#59)
    by BernieO on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:14:36 PM EST
    His excuse is that it is a national buy. I sure haven't seen any. From what I read he ran a lot of them, so if it was national I would have seen several of them.

    [ Parent ]
    No one (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jgarza on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:13:15 PM EST
    campaigned there and it tracks the poll numbers of places before campaigning starts. so i don't see how this can be significant, that and no delegates.

    Not the point (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:17:41 PM EST
    Do not cover it significant.

    But do not cover it in sneering tones.

    Pretty simple.

    [ Parent ]

    well it is essentially (none / 0) (#20)
    by Jgarza on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:24:31 PM EST
    a precampaign poll and she is having a victory party.

    [ Parent ]
    It is people voting (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:25:52 PM EST
    Going to a voting booth and voting.

    That is not a poll.

    [ Parent ]

    yes but (none / 0) (#35)
    by Jgarza on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:34:37 PM EST
    there is other stuff on the ballot, so other reasons to come out.

    The victory speech was a political stunt, and it was treated as such. That is the risk of a stunt it can be successful, or not.  

    [ Parent ]

    The Democratic ballot in Palm Beach (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:38:08 PM EST
    had 1 amendment and the your choice of Democratic candidates including the Big O.  So if people came out for portable property tax amendment, how come they didn't also vote for Obama?

    [ Parent ]
    It was treated as a stunt by NBC (none / 0) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:42:10 PM EST
    Which is NOT a news organization.

    [ Parent ]
    It was a stunt (none / 0) (#44)
    by Jgarza on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:55:13 PM EST
    no one campaigned there.

    [ Parent ]
    that is nonsense (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Judith on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:59:23 PM EST
    knock it off. American voted in huge numbers.  It matters.  Stop insulting them

    [ Parent ]
    they (2.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Jgarza on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:23:20 PM EST
    had no contact with the candidates. it isnt insulting, it is desperate that she is trying to claim this as a victory.

    [ Parent ]
    I Never Have Any Actual Contact With (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 12:07:47 AM EST
    candidates and I still can find all the information I need to cast my vote each election cycle.

    [ Parent ]
    knock it off (none / 0) (#63)
    by Judith on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:28:40 PM EST
    - you are insulting Floridians who made an enormously impressive effort tonight.  

    I wont respond again.

    [ Parent ]

    This (1.00 / 3) (#70)
    by Jgarza on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:42:32 PM EST
    is how dictators win.  by not allowing other vocies to be heard.  Shame on Hillary she doesn't beleive in democracy.

    [ Parent ]
    not allowing voices to be heard? (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Kathy on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:48:55 PM EST
    I don't understand--are you saying the 800,000 folks who voted for Hillary should be heard?

    [ Parent ]
    Congratulations, you've hoisted him on his own (none / 0) (#94)
    by RalphB on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:35:53 PM EST
    pathetic little pittard

    [ Parent ]
    ofcourse (none / 0) (#104)
    by Jgarza on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 01:34:52 AM EST
    they should also get a chance to hear the other candidates.  Clinton has super name ID, she is like an incumbent because people already know her record, and for the most part like it.  So if no one gets to make their case she wins.

    [ Parent ]
    so... (none / 0) (#125)
    by Kathy on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:19:23 PM EST
    Even though they love Hillary and are very happy with their choice, they should listen to Obama because he's better for them?

    [ Parent ]
    What??? (none / 0) (#75)
    by Lena on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:51:57 PM EST
    This makes no sense.

    [ Parent ]
    Pompous Bull (5.00 / 0) (#55)
    by RalphB on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:09:23 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Seriously. (none / 0) (#23)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:26:18 PM EST
    Why do you watch TV?  At a certain point in one's life one has to start worrying about one's blood pressure.

    [ Parent ]
    I like to cover the Media (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:27:30 PM EST
    It is one of my favorite things and frankly, one of the things I think I do best.

    [ Parent ]
    someone needs to do it (none / 0) (#32)
    by Judith on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:30:36 PM EST
    just lay off salt and you will be fine for life.

    [ Parent ]
    btd, i can see you on cable (none / 0) (#41)
    by hellothere on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:46:02 PM EST
    as a pundit but one with sanity!

    [ Parent ]
    he didnt say he wanted (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Judith on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:00:09 PM EST
    to be ON tv.  Unless I missed it.

    [ Parent ]
    Perhaps "on" but not "of." (none / 0) (#77)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:54:16 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    ahhh (none / 0) (#124)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:59:55 PM EST
    on but not of.  I like that.  
     

    [ Parent ]
    he may not want it. (none / 0) (#107)
    by hellothere on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:07:20 AM EST
    i'd like to see someone informed with sanity on cable from time to time. ko has disappointed me recently.

    [ Parent ]
    Reminds me of Howard Rosenberg, (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:47:45 PM EST
    formerly the TV critic for LA Times.  He once wrote an article about how he has many, many TVs all in his study and he sits around and watches them in this old blue bathrobe, which has lots of crumbs in the pockets.  I could never shake that image when reading his stuff.  

    [ Parent ]
    poor you. (none / 0) (#50)
    by Judith on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:00:50 PM EST
    unless he's cute.

    [ Parent ]
    Bald, not that that's a bad thing. But he's (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:29:18 PM EST
    retired now, and, anyhow, I don't watch TV except baseball.  

    [ Parent ]
    bald is ok (none / 0) (#123)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:58:17 PM EST
    baseball...nice.  My sister is a huge Red Sox fan - a real groupie.  

    I dont watch much myself.  I would never do anything but sit there if I got back into to it.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, what do you call the world's largest straw (none / 0) (#10)
    by Geekesque on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:15:22 PM EST
    poll?

    Call it a straw poll (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:16:53 PM EST
    Do not ridicule it.

    Tell the truth about it.

    Be a NEWS organization.

    I have to believe EVEN YOU know that what MSNBC did is a joke.

    CNN covered it properly.

    Just the facts ma'am.

    [ Parent ]

    I haven't been watching the coverage too (none / 0) (#18)
    by Geekesque on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:23:25 PM EST
    closely.

    Key stat:  Clinton has four 'victories' from which she's lost ground to Obama by a count of 1 delegate.

    New York and NJ and CA will provide more significant spreads, of course.

    [ Parent ]

    That's not a key stat imo (none / 0) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:24:25 PM EST
    But certainly it is a fact.

    [ Parent ]
    CA? (none / 0) (#21)
    by Jgarza on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:25:21 PM EST
    you think he has to win or just come close?

    [ Parent ]
    CA (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Kathy on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:05:40 PM EST
    Apparently, Oprah is thinking about giving him a boost in California.

    Honestly, there comes a point when you have to wonder why he needs all these wiser voices to prop him up.  Can't he just read from the teleprompter on his own?

    [ Parent ]

    I think it issafe to say he can (none / 0) (#61)
    by fullcircle on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:26:48 PM EST
    Obama may be a lot of things but,incapable of delivering an effective speech? I think he has proven he is a fine public speaker. Even if you hate him and his ideas you have to say he has a knack for speech making.

    [ Parent ]
    I do not deny (none / 0) (#79)
    by Kathy on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:55:18 PM EST
    that the man knows how to woo a crowd.  All I am saying is that his bringing in all these 'stars' is more than likely going to backfire the same way it did with Hillary and Bill last week when folks said "let her speak for herself."

    I have found that in politics, as with most things, peoples' memories last about a week.

    [ Parent ]

    I am just (none / 0) (#98)
    by standingup on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:42:57 PM EST
    waiting for Dr. Phil to jump in and endorse Obama too.  

    [ Parent ]
    Ive' got 'til Feb. 5 and I'm waiting for (none / 0) (#99)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:45:48 PM EST
    Dr. Laura.

    [ Parent ]
    Why can't (none / 0) (#105)
    by Jgarza on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 01:36:57 AM EST
    she win without Bill? and all her surrogates.  If she so experienced why does she need that?

    [ Parent ]
    I do not know (none / 0) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:26:49 PM EST
    There are 22 states in play. It is impossible right now to say what anyone has to do.

    [ Parent ]
    If Obama comes within 10% or less (none / 0) (#26)
    by Geekesque on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:27:18 PM EST
    in CA, they'll be popping champagne.

    [ Parent ]
    California (none / 0) (#40)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:44:59 PM EST
    I live in California and for the life of me you never know what they will do. But, we do elect women, so that is not an issue.

    [ Parent ]
    Will either HRC or Obama (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:55:53 PM EST
    voice opinions on term limits and/or Indian gaming propositions?  Probably not.  Will any of the propositions pull people to the polls?  I doubt it.  

    [ Parent ]
    So (none / 0) (#106)
    by Jgarza on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 01:39:10 AM EST
    you are you saying if she looses somewhere, it is because she is a woman?  If so then are there places she can never win, because she is a woman?  i don't want to loose just to nominate a woman.  i don't think it is a problem in any potentially Dem state, but if you do that is a problem for her.

    [ Parent ]
    I doubt winning (none / 0) (#37)
    by spit on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:41:29 PM EST
    is a realistic option for him, barring a major shift in the next week.

    But if he comes reasonably close, he's fine in terms of delegates, so long as he wins elsewhere.

    The most likely outcome this cycle IMO is that it remains competitive past Super Duper Tuesday, though I think Clinton will gain an edge there -- how much of one is really the question, again unless something major shifts in the next 7 days.

    [ Parent ]

    You're right--interesting stat would (none / 0) (#24)
    by Geekesque on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:26:36 PM EST
    have been a better way of putting it.

    [ Parent ]
    Have a 5 for the (none / 0) (#88)
    by oldpro on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:14:19 PM EST
    Joe Friday routine.

    [ Parent ]
    CNN handled the coverage (none / 0) (#14)
    by talkingpoint on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:19:21 PM EST
    properly, but they still have their pro-Obama, Hillary hating panel giving their two cents. The media must know that know matter how they try to spin the issues most people are going to vote for who they think the better candidate is. as for as MSNBC is concerned they already heard my displeasure with their pathetic broadcast.

    mccain (none / 0) (#16)
    by mindfulmission on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:20:22 PM EST
    networks are calling it for mccain.

    mccain/huckabee is kinda' scary to me...

    Earlier (none / 0) (#34)
    by lepidus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:31:42 PM EST
    Chris Matthews "Joked" that the reward for winning a single presidential primary state was a job on MSNBC, and that that was why Pat Buchanan was on the air.

    I don't think it was really a joke. The reward for being a mediocre conservative is in fact a job on MSNBC.

    Heh (none / 0) (#65)
    by Steve M on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:30:47 PM EST
    A straw poll is a good analogy since I think the networks gave more coverage to the Ames Straw Poll than they did to this primary.

    I'll tell you the truth, I'm not a fan of Obama's message, he's not my candidate... I don't mind if he wins though.  But I REALLY REALLY do not want the media to pick a candidate for us, and thus I hope he loses.

    Brazille (none / 0) (#68)
    by Kathy on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:36:21 PM EST
    just said on CNN that Florida should hold a caucus after Tsuper Tuesday.  She didn't say how they should pay for it, what it would mean, etc.  I think the Florida Dem party should hold a silent caucus where they validate the vote taken today instead of making folks go out again.  Isn't it up to the states how they send delegates?  Clinton got over 250K more votes than Obama.  She's going to come close to a million votes on this thing.  You cannot ignore that.  Can you imagine what Kos and the others would do if this happened to Obama?  They would be RIOTING.

    Does anyone know how many delegates this would mean for Clinton and Obama if it was validated?

    And, as an aside, I find it so very, very insulting that they are calling this a Beauty Contest.  How freakin sexist is that?  And even Brazille did it!  Just takes almost 2 million voters and reduces them to nothing.  

    She should be on leave w/o pay. (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:59:04 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    No love for Carville (none / 0) (#89)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:20:17 PM EST
    but why does she get to stay around?

    [ Parent ]
    I just saw Hillary (none / 0) (#69)
    by Jgarza on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:39:29 PM EST
    on MSNBC she was acting like she won the nomination.  That is so insulting California, Texas, most of the country hasn't even voted. Hasn't even gotten to see the campaign.

    I can't believe she is trying to disenfranchise, 8o percent of the country.

    She doesn't even think we should get the chance tp see other candidates.  Like a dictator!

    This is absurd and over the top. (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:55:00 PM EST
    You do your candidate a disservice with such an absurd attack.

    [ Parent ]
    Now, dear... (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by oldpro on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:03:14 PM EST
    just take your medication and a big cup of cocoa and go to bed.

    Tomorrow is another day.

    [ Parent ]

    Silly YOU (none / 0) (#73)
    by PlayInPeoria on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:50:52 PM EST
    you can not tell am amn from a women.. That was John McCain that just won the nomination.

    [ Parent ]
    Opps (none / 0) (#74)
    by PlayInPeoria on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:51:26 PM EST
    man from a women

    [ Parent ]
    Don't cry for me Argentina. (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:00:23 PM EST
    Under this theory, Obama's victory speech in Iowa was a sacrilege.

    [ Parent ]
    That was parody, right? (none / 0) (#85)
    by trishb on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:09:03 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I'm sure it was, but unintentional :-) (none / 0) (#96)
    by RalphB on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:38:08 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    She said (none / 0) (#101)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 11:08:14 PM EST
    "I thank you for the vote of confidence" She did not say I won.

    [ Parent ]
    jgarza, you sound so mean (none / 0) (#109)
    by hellothere on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:11:45 AM EST
    spirited in every comment. frankly the constant carping is enough!

    [ Parent ]
    It is apparently quite tiring to (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:19:03 AM EST
    defend Obama in each and every comment.  Tought work, but somebody's got to do it.  

    [ Parent ]
    frankly that false outrage is insulting. (none / 0) (#115)
    by hellothere on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:48:35 AM EST
    hillary deserves to celebrate. she just showed the ongoing complainers like you that she is not down or out. in fact she showed a real ability get votes from all sections of the population.

    it doesn't matter what response you get jgarza, you just come back with more complaints.

    [ Parent ]

    TalkingPointsMemo (none / 0) (#100)
    by rilkefan on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 10:52:20 PM EST
    just all over the Dem results.  Current top article - Hillary kinda sorta apologizes for her or Bill's awful behavior in SC.

    Coverage Of The Dem Results In Florida | 124 comments (124 topical)

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