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Thursday Open Thread

Our last open thread is full. Here's a new one, all topics welcome.

What I'm following: Marco Rubio in Mexico, and his comments at a press conference after announcing yet another "task force" will be formed to fight drug traffickers. This one will include Mexican and American officials. Rubio calls it an "implementation force" -- a force that will act to fulfill Donald Trump's plan to murder suspected gang members who are believed to be involved with importing drugs or chemicals to the U.S.

Trump and Mario think it's legal to order the U.S. military to blow up a boat in international waters because intelligence sources said there were gang members and drugs aboard, headed to the U.S. Mario says: [More...]

[T}he President, under his authority as Commander-in-Chief, has a right under exigent circumstances to eliminate imminent threats to the United States, and that’s what he did yesterday in international waters, and that’s what he intends to do. We’re not going to sit back anymore and watch these people sail up and down the Caribbean like a cruise ship. It’s not going to happen. It’s not going to happen anymore. They’re not going to bring drugs into the United States. We’re going to stop them. I know a lot of presidents have talked about doing it; this President is not a talker, he’s a doer. He’s going to do it.

What was Mexico's response to this? At the joint presser, Mexico's Foreign Affairs secretary said:

We have, as many of you may know, some basic principles in our constitution that rule our foreign policy. These principles are clearly stated in article 89 of our constitution, and some of them are very clear: self-determination. We believe in self-determination. Nonintervention. Peaceful solution of controversies. All countries are legally equal. We believe in cooperation for development, and so on. So these principles are the ones that really rule our foreign policy, and we are going to stick to them because that’s our mandate, and of course those have been also the instructions I have received from President Sheinbaum.

Shorter version: Mexico is not giving an inch when it comes their sovereignity. If the U.S. blows up a boat in Mexican waters, there will be hell to pay. Goodbye "implementation" force. Mexico is going to grab the free goodies: training, technology equipment, and all the "shared intel" the U.S. is offering, right up until the day the U.S. crosses the line. Mexico will then punt and say, bye-bye, we told you about Article 89.

Marco continued his anti-fentanyl strong man trip to Ecuador today. He also announced two Ecuadorian gangs were added to the narco-terrorist sanctions list: Los Choneros and Los Lobos.

The document, identified as 2025-17067, states that the Attorney General and Secretary of the Treasury, "concluded that there was sufficient grounds to apply Section 219 of the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act. This law allows armed groups or drug trafficking networks to be designated as terrorist threats, which opens the door to economic sanctions, asset freezes, immigration restrictions, and greater intelligence sharing between agencies."

Where does it say extra-judicial killings are allowed in the absence of Congress declaring war?

Again, this is an open thread, all topics welcome.

Update: See the latest open thread starting with Bad Bunny. I've deleted many comments here for the reasons expressed in that thread. I am not done, this is an hours long process, as they have to be deleted individually and the entire thread reloaded. I am keeping comments here closed.

Response to Coast in Comment 83: I did not write the "karma" comment you referred to. It is absolutely a violation of this site's policy and that comment and about 25 others have now been deleted.

TalkLeft has had a constant policy during its 23 year existence that we do not speak ill of the dead on the occasion of their death.

As I point out in the new "Bad Bunny" open thread, I am not willing to get doxxed or put on some anonymous hater's list for comments posted by others. I am in the process of deleting them.

Apparently, all we are allowed to comment on is how violence is never the answer to political disagreements.

I haven't had to use "time-outs" here for more than a decade. But if necessary I will now since everyone has been informed that comments may not be posted here criticizing Kirk's views, or which contain snark or criticism of him, including references to his past statements.

Thank you all for understanding.

< Melania and Jared: They're Back | Bad Bunny and Open Thread >
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  • Display: Sort:
    The peasants are revolting (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 03:02:08 PM EST

    A five-alarm fire': Federal judges are unloading grievances after Justice Gorsuch called out one of their own for defying SCOTUS

    "The Court is mindful of Justice Gorsuch's comments in his opinion in APHA and fully agrees that this Court is not free to 'defy' Supreme Court decisions and is, in fact, 'duty-bound to respect 'the hierarchy of the federal court system,'" Burroughs began. Consistent with these obligations, this Court (and likely all district courts) endeavors to follow the Supreme Court's rulings, 'no matter how misguided [it] may think [them] to be.'"



    Federal judges (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 03:30:25 PM EST
    have been one of the few lights in all this mess and the supreme court would do well to just let their decisions stand and not take up the cases. John Roberts is going to go down as one of the most feckless chief justice in the history of the court.

    Every day and case by case the supreme court is making a case for their own expansion.  

    Parent

    Rubio's statement is miles from anything (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Peter G on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 03:06:10 PM EST
    that could pass for a legal justification. The simple fact is that there is no justification whatsoever -- either legal or moral -- for what they did yesterday in destroying that boat and murdering the people on it.

    It is (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 03:22:15 PM EST
    curious that a speed boat running drugs would have a crew of eleven.  Rather than drug trafficking, could it have been migrant trafficking.  And, they can't even get their stories straight--- Little Marco said the speed boat was headed for Trinidad, but changed his story after Trump said it was coming to the U.S.  Even Alito will be hard pressed to come up with a legal basis for blowing up a speed boat in International waters that is suspected of running drugs to Trinidad.

    Parent
    That was my first thought. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 03:33:58 PM EST
    Why would drug smugglers put that much additional weight and take up that much more room with human bodies. The profit is in more weight vis-a-vis drugs.

    Parent
    I have (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 03:24:55 PM EST
    read that they lawyers are scrambling to figure out a justification AFTER the fact because of course no one did anything prior to this happening. And most agree with what you are saying.

    I guess we are just supposed to believe "dear leader" when he says it is Trende de Agua or whatever they call themselves with no evidence.

    Parent

    Apparently the rotting orange hulk... (none / 0) (#10)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 04:37:52 PM EST
    thinks he is now free to murder anyone on the planet.

    Parent
    It's a very short boat trip (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by fishcamp on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 05:02:40 PM EST
    From  Venezuela to Trinidad and Tobago and they smuggle hundreds of different items back and forth down there.  We used to buy diesel fuel for 30 cents a gallon in Venezuela  on our way through the canal to Costa Rica.  We met people smuggling perfume, soap, cigarettes, boat parts, and one guy had boxes of lingerie.  Sounds to me it was people smugglers or just people wanting to leave Venezuela .  They could have had some drugs, but that's not a location where they go with tons of cocaine like we usually read about, and they don't blow those people up either.

    It doesn't look like this has really anything (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by desertswine on Fri Sep 05, 2025 at 11:34:50 AM EST
    to do with drugs.  It looks like trump may be trying to goad maduro into a shooting war; as a distraction, from his child abusing activities.

    Parent
    Then it was outright murder (none / 0) (#117)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 11:34:13 AM EST
    It isn't clear that Trump designating "drug dealers" as military targets is even legal, but if drugs were not involved it was blatant outright murder.

    Parent
    Maybe the Trump regime should just seize ... (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 05, 2025 at 03:33:30 PM EST
    ... Trinidad and Tobago, and then use those islands as a base of operations to pillage and plunder the port cities of the Caribbean basin. I mean, when was the last time Barranquilla or Maracaibo had a good pillaging and plundering? It's been far too long, by my reckoning. And from there, well, it's only a hop, skip and jump to Colon, Panama to seize the canal and raise the passage fees fivefold for foreign shipping.

    You know, I bet Donald Trump would look great wearing a tri-cornered hat and standing on the bow of a warship, perhaps with a parrot on his shoulder, as he sails into a hostile port, doing his best Long John Silver impersonation as he waves his broadsword and growls to the shocked inhabitants, "Arrgh, maties, and shiver me timbers! Strike yer colors, ya scurvy dogs! Where be the treasure?"

    Look, if America is determined to be a cartoon on the world stage - Department of War? Seriously? - then we might as well do it right and go whole hog. Then at the last minute, Britain could send in the Bournemouth Gynecologists to save the day, as Fox News' Jesse Watters regales the MAGA masses, "Are you not entertained?"

    I am a sick and cynical puppy right now. >:-D

    Parent

    Trump impregnates Satan (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 05:53:23 PM EST
    in the new episode of South Park.  Which is mostly about tariffs.  

    What a piece of sh!t this guy is (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 07:26:21 PM EST
    I listened to a clip of Hegseth in the (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Sep 05, 2025 at 06:10:17 PM EST
    Oval at the signing. He is one sick f*ck.

    Parent
    You mean (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2025 at 06:29:57 PM EST
    The Secretary of War

    Parent
    I am serious. (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 05:25:09 PM EST
    Listen to this guy's comments in the Oval Office. He belongs to a religious cult that believes women should not have the right to vote. Only the male head of household. He believes women should not be in the military, much less combat roles.

    He wants to kill people. Plain and simple. And I fear, he doesn't care where. The high seas, Mexico, or on US soil. All this warrior ethos BS is dangerous to all of us. He is itching for a fight. Anywhere.

    Americans need to wake up now. Before the cities are all occupied by the military. Arm up. Buy more ammo.

    Parent

    You don't have to convince me (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 05:42:34 PM EST
    Trumps "cabinet" is more like a cabinet of curiosities.  Take RFKjr, please.

    The head of education was the head of the WWF.

    The voters are getting what they wanted. A government that stops government from working at every level.

    It seems unsustainable to me.  But it has before.

    I agree Trump is going to do whatever it takes.  Including blood in the streets.

    Or war abroad. That seems more likely.  


    Parent

    This (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 05:43:46 PM EST
    Is the U.S. Preparing for War?
    September 6, 2025 at 1:03 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 207 Comments

    The Pentagon is deploying 10 F-35 stealth fighter jets to Puerto Rico for "counter-narcotics tasking in the Caribbean," Fox News reports.

    Jennifer Griffin: "Why would you need F35 stealth fighter jets for a counternarcotics mission? The F35s being sent to Puerto Rico are usually used for large bombing missions like the targeting of Iran's nuclear facilities- a 5th generation supersonic fighter jet known for its lethality. It looks to me like the US military is going to war. 8 US Navy destroyers in the Caribbean near Venezuela is a first."

    Parent

    You know (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 05:46:09 PM EST
    The whole Department of War thing.

    Trump and Hegseth might get new Generalissimo outfits

    Parent

    Oh, you're going to love this (none / 0) (#148)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 07:24:13 PM EST
    Trump can't actually legally change the name to The Dept of War. He can scrape letters off doors but it's still only The Dept of War in his little circle. So say you are one of our big defense contractors. When you write Congress it is the Dept of Defense, and when you have to address the Trumpleskins, it is the Dept of War. Imagine the efficiencies those bastards create daily.

    Parent
    Oh (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 07:04:09 PM EST
    And this

    Pentagon Prioritizes Homeland Over China Threat
    September 6, 2025 at 4:00 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 187 Comments

    Politico: "Pentagon officials are proposing the department prioritize protecting the homeland and Western Hemisphere, a striking reversal from the military's yearslong mandate to focus on the threat from China."

    "A draft of the newest National Defense Strategy, which landed on Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's desk last week, places domestic and regional missions above countering adversaries such as Beijing and Moscow."

    Parent

    Current regime: (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 09:05:05 PM EST
    We have met the enemy and he is us.

    My apologies to Pogo.

    Parent

    It's hurricane season in Hawaii. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 05, 2025 at 09:49:44 PM EST
    And first up at the plate is Hurricane Kiko, now a Category 4 storm that's about 4 days away. After Hurricane Lane in 2018, when Hilo avoided the winds but got swamped with 53 inches of rain, I've noticed that everyone tends to take these things much more seriously now.

    So I looked (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 09, 2025 at 06:11:55 PM EST
    at the entire birthday book. Man, there is a lot of stuff in there including a fake check with Trump "buying" a marked down woman. I guess she must have been 18 since that is when the markdowns appear to occur. There are people in there basically praising Epstein's attraction to young girls with one person making this grotesque cartoon about it.

    Seems to me even maga is not dumb enough to fall for Trump's lies about this. I guess we will see.

    MEMORANDUM (none / 0) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 01:30:56 PM EST
    To: Karoline Leavitt
          White House Press Secretary
    Fr: Donald from Hawaii
    Re: President Trump's signature

    I've long argued that the best measure of your argument's logic and effectiveness is actually a room full of astute teenagers. Therefore, I'd suggest that you make a day trip to the nearest high school of your choice, explain to a social studies class why you think Democrats would have forged Donald Trump's signature in Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday book 22 years ago - 13 years before he first ran for president - and then gauge the general reaction you get from the students. 🙄

    Best of luck.

    Parent

    This happened yesterday (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 09:03:55 AM EST

    Democrats add 1 more vote in Congress after Virginia special election

    In two weeks there will be another.
    then
    There will be enough to force the vote on the E files.

    Charlie Kirk has been shot (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 02:14:54 PM EST
    BTW (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 03:20:55 PM EST
    will we see troops patrolling the streets in Utah?

    Parent
    We can expect (none / 0) (#79)
    by KeysDan on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 03:35:31 PM EST
    troops to march in soon.  After all, it was MAGAt favorite, Big Balz, who triggered the Trump invasion of D.C., after he got a bloody nose in a scrape with two 15-year olds at 3 in the morning near his DuPont Circle.

    Parent
    Trump just posted he's dead (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 03:46:46 PM EST
    with a long emotional rant.

    Parent
    Well it can be said (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 03:52:23 PM EST
    Charlie Kirk kept his Second Amendment rights to the very end.

    BTW, concealed carry is permitted on the campus of the University.

    Parent

    The shooter is still at large. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 01:24:36 AM EST
    There was one single shot fired at Charlie Kirk from 150-200 yards away. At a minimum, that strongly suggests that the perp was perhaps ex-military with sniper training, and that this was not a spontaneous act but rather, a meticulously planned operation that was likely set in motion well prior to today's event. The shooter had his escape route already mapped out before he ever took his perch to await his quarry. A professional hit, perhaps?

    Shades of "Day of the Jackal."

    Parent

    Days of the Jackal (none / 0) (#126)
    by Coral on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 03:44:49 PM EST
    Is a great read. If there's a film, I haven't seen it.

    Parent
    There's at least (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 03:49:18 PM EST
    1 film and a TV series.  Both very good.

    Parent
    movie (none / 0) (#129)
    by leap2 on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 03:51:53 PM EST
    "Day of the Jackal" ... (none / 0) (#201)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 09:07:08 PM EST
    ... was adapted by director Fred Zinnemann (who had also directed "High Noon" in 1951 and "From Here to Eternity" in 195%) for the big screen in 1973. The critically acclaimed film starred British actor Edward Fox in the title role and French actor Michel Lonsdale as Deputy Commissioner Claude Lebel, the French police detective tasked to find the Jackal before he can carry out the assassination of President Charles De Gaulle.

    Parent
    Oh yes... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by desertswine on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 02:48:07 PM EST
    Kirk's comments come about one week after three children and three adults were killed at the Christian Covenant School in Nashville, Tennessee.

    The doofus (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 10:51:35 AM EST
    Governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, has publicly announced the motive, even before the shooter was caught: a political assassination.  And, he was firing up the electric chair reminding that "Utah still has the death penalty".  And, anyone who was joyful about the murder  should look in the mirror--after  all, taking a life is an awful thing.

    This was part of the Keystone Kop press conference where one official stated the shooter was at large, immediately followed by the governor stating a person of interest was being held-- not to be confused  with the other person of interest held, but released and his name given.  And, somewhere in there was the FBI Director's claim that the FBI had the shooter in custody.  And, because of the shooter in custody by someone, somewhere, the pursuit/investigation was apparently delayed by at least an hour.

    The shooter is reported as still at large--police are looking for a white guy with a gun in Utah--which, of course, narrows it down.

    Definitely, narrows the field (none / 0) (#132)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 04:00:42 PM EST
    A white man with a gun in Utah.

    HB 128, effective 5/7/25 permits individuals 18 years or older with a current concealed weapon permit, to carry a weapon on campus, including in an open fashion.

    This change was made because according to Keith Squires, chief safety officer: "Our highest priority is preserving public safety on campus."

    How's that working out?

    Parent

    A 30-06 (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 08:30:20 AM EST
    is a very common hunting rifle.  That's what most people here use for deer.

    Everybody's got one.  

    Parent

    There are between 1.4 and 2.8 million (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by Peter G on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 10:52:09 AM EST
    transgender persons in the United States, equaling about 1% of the population over age 13.  Five out of 5000 shooters is 0.1%. So those figures, if accurate, would suggest that transgender persons are about 1/10 as likely to perpetrate such horrors as those who are cisgender. Do the math, friends.

    His final words were heinous (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 11:36:26 AM EST
    They were one God awful legacy

    In memory of (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 02:02:40 PM EST
    Charlie Kirk as a paragon of free speech there is a campaign to punish anyone who speaks ill of him.   The State Department has stated that it may deport any foreigners or visitors who attempt to justify or make light of the situation.  If any such comments are noted, the State Department asks that they be notified.   MSNBC fired news analyst, Matt Dodd, for accurate, but inelegant, comments about Kirk's commentaries. N.B. Be careful, thank you for your attention to this matter.

    Anyone remember a Single (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 02:25:04 PM EST
    prominent Republican who forcefully spoke out about the harassment the Sandy Hook parents were subjected to? Neither do I.

    They can all go f*ck themselves.

    Parent

    Karma (none / 0) (#200)
    by coast on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 09:04:25 PM EST
    I believe that's how many of you have referred to it here.

    Parent
    Oof, the stock market hitting new high (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 03:01:01 PM EST
    And these job numbers?

    The one highlight in my life. (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 08:00:31 PM EST
    The stock market is my new hobby in retirement.

    Parent
    If I hear once more (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 03:51:29 PM EST
    about how he "said controversial things just to provoke debate" I might have to throw something.

    You know what (none / 0) (#135)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 04:17:22 PM EST
    this has done? IMO it is the straw that broke the camel's back. Not the murder but the reaction to the murder. The treatment of Kirk as he is some special character while murders have become so every day. People are immediately pushing back with a lot of horrible things he said and he said plenty horrible things. Conservatives are whining mightily that we shouldn't talk about these bad things. These same people who were screaming and spewing misinformation before the murdered legislators in MN were even cold. There are just too many just plain sick of it all. I don't think it's smart for conservatives to wrap themselves in Kirk since that would attach them to his views but they are going to do it anyway.

    Parent
    The vigil (none / 0) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 04:23:21 PM EST
    Governor Pritzker (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 04:43:52 PM EST
    "My sympathy to Charlie Kirk's family and to Charlie Kirk, who obviously has become a target for somebody.  I don't know whether it's political violence, because I don't know who did it.  I know they seem to have somebody in custody.  But I will say that political violence unfortunately has been ratcheting up in this country."

    "We saw the shootings, the killings in Minnesota.  We've seen other political violence occur in other states.  And I would just say it's got to stop.  And I think there are people who are fomenting it in this country."

    "I think the president's rhetoric often foments it.  We've seen the January 6 rioters who clearly have tripped a new era of political violence .  And, the president?   What did he do?  Pardoned them.  I mean what kind of signal does that send to people who want to perpetrates political violence.  Not a good one."

    Received the updated (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 12:22:18 PM EST
    Covid booster vaccination earlier this week.  No side effects save for soreness at the injection site. Needed a prescription per the pharmacy policy and Pfizer's vaccine was the only one available. All my previous Covid vaccinations have been Moderna, but it is OK to mix.

    I suggest all eligible (65 and over and with certain conditions) and ready for a booster, get the vaccine.  The need for a prescription was not a barrier for me, but may be for others. Kennedy is now requiring the FDA to evaluate his disproved, crackpot fever dreams about the vaccine and his new CDC Advisory Committee, packed with anti-vaxxers will be meeting soon. I am not optimistic about their public health positions.

    Got mine minutes ago (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 12:28:01 PM EST
    along with a flu shot. I had my choice of Covid shot and I told them I didn't care.  Not sure what I got.

    Parent
    I am polyvaxamorous (none / 0) (#173)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 12:48:18 PM EST
    Learning new things today. Like what's a groyper lol? Josh told me that he wouldn't be surprised based on the words on the bullet casings. But he tells me to give it a bit more time cuz mfers lie lololol. Bella Ciao stumped me though. What does Bella Ciao have to do with a Nick Fuentes war against Charlie Kirk. Josh tells me different right wing groups appropriated Bella Ciao, and even rewrote it a bit sometimes. And the references are most likely from the new right-wing hate use of it.

    Parent
    I got my covid shot on Monday... (none / 0) (#204)
    by desertswine on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 11:23:29 PM EST
    We just went to the grocery store pharmacy, said we wanted the Covid shot, filled out a paper, and got the shot within minutes.  It was the "new" Pfizer vaccine.  We are blessed with a great governor.

    Parent
    Valhalla.. (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 05:34:32 PM EST
    doesn't sound very Christian..

    I guess this is the new right: taking the best that the Aryan Brotherhood has to offer and mixing in a little Christianity to create a hybrid.


    Kind of like that Austrian (5.00 / 5) (#197)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 05:39:30 PM EST
    With the bad moustache

    Parent
    Apropos of almost nothing (5.00 / 2) (#203)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 10:47:18 PM EST
    I just found out that one anagram for 'Peter Thiel' is 'The Reptile.'

    No! Not Los Lobos! (none / 0) (#7)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 03:35:14 PM EST
    I love those guys. I listen to "Will the Wolf Survive" all the time.

    /s


    218 (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 03:50:11 PM EST
    Politico reporter Ben Jacobs agreed, adding, "Worth noting the number will grow by another in the next week or two, regardless of what Republicans do after the VA-11 special election where Democrat James Walkinshaw is expected to win easily on Tuesday."

    Journalist Gabe Fleisher explained that Swalwell also intends to sign onto the order, but he has been with his family after his mother passed away. His support will make 216 votes, and after the Virginia election, it will equal 217. Another Democrat is expected to win in the Arizona special election on Sept 23 will equal 218 votes in support

    Matter of policy choice (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 04:24:43 PM EST

    Trump Claims Power to Kill Suspected Drug Smugglers
    September 4, 2025 at 3:37 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 87 Comments

    "By ordering the U.S. military to summarily kill a group of people aboard what he said was a drug-smuggling boat, President Trump used the military in a way that had no clear legal precedent or basis," the New York Times reports.

    "Mr. Trump is claiming the power to shift maritime counterdrug efforts from law enforcement rules to wartime rules. The police arrest criminal suspects for prosecution and cannot instead simply gun suspects down, except in rare circumstances where they pose an imminent threat to someone."

    "By contrast, in armed conflicts, troops can lawfully kill enemy combatants on sight."

    "Because killing people is so extreme -- and doing it without due process risks killing the wrong people by mistake -- the question of which rules apply is not simply a matter of policy choice."



    If I were (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 05:48:48 PM EST
    in the military this would make me think twice about obeying any orders. Trump obviously doesn't care about the law and that puts the soldiers at risk.

    This could have another effect of making our foreign relations even worse.

    Parent

    Murder on the high seas is a federal crime (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Peter G on Thu Sep 04, 2025 at 09:50:31 PM EST
    carrying a potential sentence of life imprisonment or death, and for which there is no statute of limitations on when charges can be brought. Title 18, U.S. Code, sections 7, 1111, 3281. It can be prosecuted where any act was committed that caused the intentional death, regardless of where the death occurred, and if that cannot be ascertained then wherever the perpetrator is arrested, or in the District of Columbia. Sec. 3236, 3238. Unless the murderer has immunity, of course.

    Parent
    In other words, if I were Hegspeth (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by Peter G on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 01:05:01 PM EST
    I'd be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life. Same for anyone else involving in the planning, approval or execution of that horrific operation.

    Parent
    Yes, (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 02:20:54 PM EST
    it seems unlikely that Trump will ever be held accountable for his crimes in light of Trump v USA, so it will be important that his henchmen, such as Kennedy, Hegseth, Miller, and Vought come to realize the time may come when they may need to flee their hotels through the kitchen to avoid capture and imprisonment for their criminal collaboration.

    They may be high on their own supply at present, but I am buoyed by the prospect of things catching up with them--and this includes the U.S. Navy captain who may have followed unlawful orders in targeting that speedboat.

    Parent

    Hoping the day will come when (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by KeysDan on Sun Sep 07, 2025 at 10:13:51 AM EST
    JD Vance and Hegseth will be carted off to The Hague.

    In response to the comment, killing the citizens of another country who are civilians without any due process is called a war crime, JD Vance responded: "I don't give a shIt what you call it."  " Killing cartel members who poison our fellow citizens is the highest and best use of our military."

    Of course, we do not know if it was a drug cartel operation.

    Parent

    Word of the day (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 07, 2025 at 10:26:05 AM EST
    Tumbril

    I would rather see them loaded on one of those.

    Parent

    tumbrils (none / 0) (#44)
    by leap2 on Sun Sep 07, 2025 at 02:25:18 PM EST
    Yes (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 07, 2025 at 02:55:26 PM EST
    I learned that word from the penultimate episode of Foundations 3rd season on Apple+  

    Which is awsum

    Big finale next Friday.

    I love needing to look it up.

    Parent

    It was the thing (none / 0) (#183)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 02:02:27 PM EST
    they carted people to the guillotine in during the Reign of Terror.

    To this day, in some quarters in europe, whenever a privileged class person makes a "let them eat cake" type of comment, it's called a 'tumbrilism.'

    Parent

    This is Dr Evil stuff (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2025 at 04:24:22 PM EST

    Even the NRA disagrees with Trump on this one

    A novel approach to gun violence.


    So now thd GQP is FOR (none / 0) (#19)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Sep 05, 2025 at 05:43:10 PM EST
    gun control?

    Parent
    Like they are into (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2025 at 06:31:22 PM EST

    States Rights

    Parent
    The Chicago Sun Times (none / 0) (#26)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 02:56:49 PM EST
    is reporting on Trump's Truth Social post that said Chicago is about to find out "why it's called the Department of War". The post uses references to the 1979 war movie "Apocalypse Now", along with representations of Trump dressed up in a Civil War army uniform and helicopters flying across the Chicago skyline, with the words,  "Chicoalypse Now".

    Governor Pritzker said the President of the United States is threatening to go to war against an American City. Two days ago, the City of Chicago cancelled its El Grito celebration--festivals, picnics and parades marking Mexico Independence--in fear of ICE raids and disruptions.

    He dressed as Colonel Kilgore (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 03:34:06 PM EST
    (Sigh!) It's as though we're trapped ... (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 08, 2025 at 03:37:27 PM EST
    ... inside a locked classroom with a bunch of unruly and obnoxious 7th graders.

    Manic Col. Kilgore in "Apocalypse Now!" has to be my all-time favorite performance by Robert Duvall in any film. That incredulous stare of disbelief that Capt. Willard (Martin Sheen) throws Kilgore after he drops his final crazy-a$$ed observation and just walks off was absolute perfection:

    "Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for twelve hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell? The whole hill. Smelled like -victory. Someday this war's gonna end."

    Someday this war's gonna end. Indeed - because Charlie don't surf. ;-)

    Parent

    But we think he should. (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Sep 08, 2025 at 04:37:22 PM EST
    I would love to know (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 08, 2025 at 06:04:38 PM EST
    what Col. Kilgore would say to private Bone Spurs.

    Parent
    If I had to guess: (none / 0) (#61)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2025 at 04:30:19 PM EST
    "If I say it's safe to surf this beach, then it's safe to surf this beach! I mean, I'm not afraid to surf this place, I'll surf this whole phuquing place! Now, you can either surf, or you can fight!"

    Col. Kilgore wouldn't have suffered a fool like Pvt. Bone Spurs.

    Parent

    Trump don't surf here... (none / 0) (#68)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 09, 2025 at 07:45:08 PM EST
    It also said (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 03:34:59 PM EST
    I love the smell of deportations in the morning.

    Parent
    Guess, (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 04:09:08 PM EST
    Better than the line from the movie:  "I love the smell of napalm in the morning".

    Parent
    A scared man (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 04:28:57 PM EST
    Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker (D) was not amused and responded on Bluesky, "The President of the United States is threatening to go to war with an American city. This is not a joke. This is not normal. Donald Trump isn't a strongman, he's a scared man. Illinois won't be intimidated by a wannabe dictator."

    Parent
    It had the desired effect (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 05:01:07 PM EST
    This just looks (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 03:36:50 PM EST
    desperate to me,

    Parent
    See my post #33. (none / 0) (#34)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 05:26:46 PM EST
    They will push until there are dead laying in American streets.

    Parent
    4 Dead in Ohio (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 09:14:41 PM EST
    Shades of Kent State.
    Neil Young just published an anti-Trump song -- it's called Big Crime (in the White House) (You Tube link). He lives in Canada.

    Parent
    FINALLY, a millennial Saint! (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2025 at 09:15:18 PM EST
    And AI has found its purpose I guess (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 08, 2025 at 09:22:45 AM EST
    Just watching that (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 08, 2025 at 12:10:38 PM EST
    single video you really get what AI is capable of.

    Insanely complex costumes, no prob.
    The faces are still a little weird but you can't beat the locations.

    In the right hands AI will make amazing stories.

    Even if no one will be working to afford to see them.

    Parent

    Rest in peace, John Burton (1932-2025). (none / 0) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 08, 2025 at 12:42:01 PM EST
    A former San Francisco congressman who left Washington and several years later successfully recast himself in Sacramento as State Senate president, Burton became California's liberal lion, a political giant who fiercely and successfully championed progressive values. He may be the most influential Democrat that few people have heard of in this day and age of TV politicians because he wasn't one to toot his own horn. Just how influential and impactful was he? Well, he was the guy who gave Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi and Kamala Harris the springboards they needed to launch their political careers.

    So the infamous birthday card (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 08, 2025 at 03:36:19 PM EST
    has been released.  This is a funny bit.  

    In all the coverage of this, only the Wall Street Journal has the picture -- an indication they had it all along.



    The card (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 08, 2025 at 06:47:57 PM EST
    is not very artful.  The fake one that circulated recently was much nicer.

    This one takes a woman down to the essentials

    It reminded me of a great movie by Jennifer Lynch
    Boxing Helena

    I recommend it

    Parent

    I imagine (none / 0) (#55)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 08, 2025 at 07:24:14 PM EST
    that card might end up in some campaign ads. Wonder if the GOP might care about that. Probably not. I think the estate has a good amount of stuff that can be released. I figured that card would be one of the first things out. It actually is creepier to me than the fakes as the female seems younger.

    Parent
    Good point (none / 0) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 08, 2025 at 09:07:37 PM EST
    Hadn't thought about that

    Parent
    I Also Liked the Fake One Better (none / 0) (#57)
    by RickyJim on Mon Sep 08, 2025 at 10:47:10 PM EST
    I suppose the indication that it was fake is that it had the Trump Organization letterhead.  In the mammary area, it also represented a much more mature female than the genuine card.

    Parent
    I think this is a feel good story (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 08, 2025 at 06:26:26 PM EST
    "debilitating" is a word that never occurred to me,   But it's a good word.

    Four hikers on magic mushrooms, one with `debilitating high', rescued in New York


    "The original caller admitted the group had consumed mushrooms and one of them was experiencing a debilitating high," the DEC said.

    Complicating matters for the group of hikers was the fact that they had also lost their car keys, the news release said.



    Supreme court out of control (none / 0) (#58)
    by jmacWA on Tue Sep 09, 2025 at 06:30:57 AM EST
    It certainly seems to me that the Supreme Court is out of control.  I don't see that there is anything that we can do about it.  Am I wrong?

    It seems to (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 09, 2025 at 10:45:45 AM EST
    me that the Supreme Court is under the control of Trump . Since he returned to the presidency, the Supreme Court has sided with Trump in almost every case it has been called upon to review. And, as in the cited case, using the Shadow Docket with no discussions or rationale for the decision--probably because there is no good legal case to be made, ruling, it appears, on the basis that it is a Republican president, and even more likely, because it is Trump himself. Now, the Court has given, in effect, a green light for racial profiling.

    In another case, the Supreme Court granted an administrative stay so as to keep a Democratic member of the FTC away from her post for now as the court ponders Trump's request to let him fire her. This request came after a U.S. District Court judge blocked Trump's attempt to fire her .  The U.S. Court of Appeals for D.C. upheld the District Judges's ruling.

    The lower courts ruled statutory protections shield FTC members from being removed without cause, and in light of a 1935 Supreme Court precedent in Humphrey's Executor v U.S.  So, it seems, the Supreme Court did not heed the Supreme Court precedent without overturning the Supreme Court precedent.

    Parent

    That ICE ruling is absurd. (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2025 at 05:08:05 PM EST
    As you all recently saw, masked migra agents recently swept across Southern California under the pretense of rounding up criminals. In reality, they were grabbing anyone they thought looked suspicious, which in the U.S. Southwest means they're targeting brown-skinned Latinos like my wife, my daughters and my in-laws. Two of my brothers-in-law in Texas, who are U.S. citizens, have been stopped by ICE at least three times each and asked for ID.

    The Trump regime argued to the Supreme Court that ICE needed to racially profile to find people to kick out of the country, otherwise "the prospect of contempt" would hang "over every investigative stop." Sadly, SCOTUS has legally blessed a race-based campaign of white terror that's being conducted merely for its own sake and so, being Latino is now legal grounds for reasonable suspicion.

    Bowing to the harsh and surreal reality of the present, I have since advised my own family and my in-laws to now carry their U.S. passports (or their U.S. passport cards) on their persons at all times, even if they're just going to the grocery store up the block.

    I would likewise urge each of you to do the same with your own Latino friends and family members. The last thing any of us need right now is to have to suddenly scramble in a desperate search for friends and loved ones who've been snagged off the street by ICE and taken God only knows where.

    To paraphrase the late former President Theodore Roosevelt's remarks for President Wilson on the prospect of war with Imperial Germany in 1917, there should be no question anymore about going to war with white Republicans, because it's eminently clear that they're already waging war on us.

    Stay safe, everyone.

    Parent

    SCOTUS is now a joke. (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 09, 2025 at 06:15:33 PM EST
    A bench occupied by clowns. They are not a legitmate source of jurisprudence.

    On another note. I have flag stickers of Ukraine, Mexico and Canada on my front door. Come and get me.

    Parent

    The Supreme Court (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 09, 2025 at 09:54:56 PM EST
    must be reformed.  There has been several good suggestions for reformation ranging from expansion of the number of justices to changes in the jurisdiction of the Court. A strong case can be made for reformation just on the basis of the growth and diversity  of the population as well as the  more complicated issues facing present day America (In 1869  the membership of the court was set at nine when the population  of the country was about 33 million,--it is now over 333 million)
    .

    However,  critical to  the necessity for reform is the fact, or perception, that the Supreme Court is  not a court of justice and integrity, but rather, a corrupted arm of the Republican  Party and  MAGAt partisans.  The Supreme Court  decisions affect every American. And, it's has, in effect, veto power over the two elected branches of government--Executive and Legislative.  

    The present situation of the Court is not sustainable. Its authority derives from  the  fairness, reliability, trust,  and confidence in its decisions even when  not in agreement with a specific  ruling. Either the  Court. Is  satisfactorily  reformed  or  the country runs the distinct risk of defiance of its  decisions, which may be even  worse for  democracy.

    Early in the Biden Administration  study was given to  reform, but  it ,apparently, did not receive enthusiastic support and went nowhere.   An underpinning to the necessary change is broader awareness of the state of the Court.  Reform needs to be a key part of the presidential campaign---any progressive acts that move through a  Democratic Congress and signed into law run the risk of being blocked by the MAGAt Court.  And, of course, the nation has just begun to experience the Court's arrogance as it continues to remove rights and support authoritarian government.

    Parent

    It would help (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 09:08:01 AM EST
    if nominees did not blatantly lie at their confirmation hearings.

    Parent
    Nothing With the Current Constitution (none / 0) (#59)
    by RickyJim on Tue Sep 09, 2025 at 09:59:44 AM EST
    The 1787 one allows a minority faction/party gain control of all three branches of government simultaneously, so what do you expect?  I believe that a properly constructed legislative branch would make unnecessary most judge made law and intervention.

    Parent
    (Sigh!) You know, if we were ... (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2025 at 05:26:30 PM EST
    ... on RMS Titanic in April 1912, and as the doomed ship's 1,317 passengers were scrambling for their lives to board the too-few lifeboats available to them, no doubt you'd be the guy haranguing the officers and crew that if only Belfast shipbuilders Harland & Wolff had extended the height of the vessel's water-tight bulkheads up to the third deck, none of this would've happened.

    :-(

    Parent

    Unlike the Other Posters on this Thread (2.00 / 1) (#64)
    by RickyJim on Tue Sep 09, 2025 at 05:37:44 PM EST
    I answered the OP's question.  

    Parent
    Sure. (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 01:44:27 PM EST
    And if Elmer Fudd hadn't stopped at the park restroom to take a leak, he could've caught that wascally wabbit.

    Lamenting what our country's founders failed to do 238 years ago during the 1787 Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia is hardly a constructive proposal right now, given our present political situation and peril.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Oral arguments in November (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2025 at 06:56:28 PM EST
     Court to Expedite Decision on Trump's Tariffs
    September 9, 2025 at 4:39 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 248 Comments

    "The Supreme Court announced Tuesday it will take up whether President Trump can use emergency powers to justify sweeping tariffs on trading partners across the globe, agreeing to the administration's request to hear its appeal -- and fast," The Hill reports.

    "The expedited schedule will have the justices take the bench for oral arguments in the first week of November, a late addition to the calendar."

    Charlie Kirk is dead. (none / 0) (#81)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 03:47:30 PM EST
    Shot in Utah.

    I guess now federal troops will be flooding Utah to stop this rampant crime.

    On the same day (none / 0) (#90)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 05:07:58 PM EST
    that another school shooting happened in Colorado.

    I believe at one point, Charlie said these tragedies are a price we should all be willing to pay in defense of the 2nd Amendment.

    Parent

    Kirk (none / 0) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 03:48:41 PM EST
    Died

    Troubling (none / 0) (#89)
    by coast on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 04:54:54 PM EST
    Its troubling that there are some here that believe that someone who holds an opposing view than their own should be shot and killed.  For those who do hold that view understand that you are vile, heartlesss, and repugnant.  Take a long look in the mirror and take stock.  You are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.  Based on that thinking, you would believe that I should be shot and killed.

    Capt, Donald, GA, Peter and some others.  Its been a pleasure reading your comments and discussing various topics.

    Jeralyn not sure how saying that someone being assasinated is "karma" isn't an advocation of violence which is supposed to be a violation of this sites policy.

    We are (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 07:17:28 PM EST
    exhausted by the constant mass murders in this country. Violence is never the answer. Kirk is an example of one of those that unfortunately advocated for something that ended up ending his life. He wanted guns everywhere and he got guns everywhere to point of allowing someone with a gun to get easy access to himself and kill him. I do feel for the children though. It's tragic for them. No child deserves to have their parent murdered.

    Parent
    Well said (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 07:37:22 PM EST
    And it certainly doesn't make me happy that we don't know who did it at this time. That was quite the shot, and one and done. Takes skill. They weren't messing around. Pretty scary actually.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 07:56:49 PM EST
    it seemed like a professional sniper or something other than would a sniper hit the neck and not the chest? And was able to get away undetected? I am thinking with the confusion this one may never be found and with the lax gun regulations in Utah good luck finding the guy.

    Parent
    Military sniper has weighed in and says (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 02:59:13 PM EST
    This is likely an internet sniper, not professionally trained. Because they failed to factor in the wind drag on the bullet and that is why Kirk was hit in the neck. The shot was a little low, still fatal though.

    The building he was on does provide services to veterans heading back to college, and has a women's center too. But the building could be familiar to a veteran.

    They did seem to get in there and out of there swiftly.

    Parent

    I am thinking there is a good chance we will (none / 0) (#98)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 08:10:19 PM EST
    Never know. Someone meaning to sniper - one and done, would go for a head shot. They were obviously satisfied with their single shot. Someone practiced would be calm and watching their shot through the scope. Doesn't mean they were professionally trained.  Some people simply have firearms skills and own them. They obviously were well practiced though, and planned well enough to be able to exit undetected. They don't seem to mean to be caught.

    Parent
    It is also telling that no (none / 0) (#99)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 08:12:48 PM EST
    One else was harmed. Maybe that was luck, but that is some dumb luck where and how they did it.

    Parent
    Exhausted (none / 0) (#101)
    by coast on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 09:00:18 PM EST
    GA as a gun owner myself I'm exhausted with the mass shootings as well.  While I don't support an all out ban, I do support tougher reglulations on obtaining and owning AR style rifles.  However to insinuate that because someone is an advocate for guns that their being killed or injured by someone using one, well they kind of asked for it is pretty disgusting.  Its not any different than people who sit there and say well she wore short skirts all the time, what did she think was going to happen.  The perpertrators are the one in the wrong not the victims.  Its pretty simple, and the humane way of speaking about these things.

    Parent
    There's no excusing Charlie Kirk's murder. (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 01:37:31 AM EST
    But that said, it's admittedly hard to work up any sense of empathy for a man who went out of his way to not show any empathy himself for others. My thoughts are instead with his wife, now a widow with two toddlers. I know what it's like to grow up without a father and can definitely relate.

    Parent
    We (none / 0) (#133)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 04:08:46 PM EST
    have all become so inured to murders at this point the emotions have been drained. Which is probably the goal of the gun movement...normalize this type of thing so that no one will think about yet another one.

    Parent
    Coast, I was not the one (none / 0) (#205)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Sep 13, 2025 at 04:41:58 PM EST
    who left a "karma" comment here. It is absolutely a violation of this site's policy and that comment and about 20 others have now been deleted.

    TalkLeft has had a constant policy during its 23 year existence that we do not speak ill of the dead on the occasion of their death.

    As I point out in the new "Bad Bunny" open thread, I am not willing to get doxxed or put on some anonymous hater's list for comments posted by others. I am in the process of deleting them.

    Apparently, all we are allowed to comment on is how violence is never the answer to political disagreements.

    If the "regulars" here keep mocking or referring to Kirk's views with snark or criticism, including of his past statements, I will not hesitate to put them in time out.

    Parent

    I was watching the news and a past (none / 0) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 10, 2025 at 09:32:23 PM EST
    Prosecutor was talking about how the FBI would check all the cell tower pings, and they would process all the camera footage and look for known extremists...and then I rolled my eyes. It was Chrlie Kirk in Utah, Orem Utah, who wasn't an extremist who was there? Probably not many. Feel sick to my stomach now, now that the shock has worn off. Also saw what Hannity was saying. Good God help us.

    The news coverage is something (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 07:53:01 AM EST
    Since Trump came down the escalator progressives have been in the crosshairs of MAGA lunatics.

     Regular people and famous ones have been terrified to open their mouths and draw to much attention to themselves.
    Because they were physically afraid of Trump's armed flying monkeys. Afraid of being doxed, afraid for their families and friends.

    MAGA never had the same problem.  They never saw us as a threat.  That might be changing and that seems to be what the news is most troubled about.


    Parent

    Harping on it (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 08:12:09 AM EST
    CONSTANTLY

    I tend to focus on the data (none / 0) (#116)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 11:25:19 AM EST
    That indicates that these types of shooters often espouse what appears to be a confused jumble of political ideology.

    Cancel culture (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 03:23:35 PM EST
    They found a Mauser 30-06 (none / 0) (#131)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 03:59:00 PM EST
    If it is actually the gun used and shooter meant for its ownership to be impossible to trace, it wouldn't be hard.

    So (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 04:12:42 PM EST
    you're saying that it would be hard to trace that bullet if the owner didn't want it to happen?

    I have seen people identifying as attorneys FWIW saying that what the FBI has done could make it impossible to prosecute anyone. That Patel's idiocy would be used by a defense lawyer to show how incompetent the FBI is. Now maybe this is just garbage but I found it interesting.

    Parent

    The bullet should be easy to trace (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 09:32:48 PM EST
    But not the ownership for that particular weapon. Some of them go back to WWII. They are very good at what he used it for, and there are all kinds of after market modifications. But being able to trace ownership is probably not going to be easy.

    My husband cracks me up. We just watched the video of him jumping down from the roof, and almost with relief in his voice my husband shouts, "NOT EX MILITARY!" I ask how he knows from watching that video and he says how he came off the roof. He did it stupid, came straight down on his ankles from that height. It looks like he even jammed one of his ankles. My husband says after military training you know to roll coming from a height like that, and you've practiced it, specifically to avoid damaging your knees and ankles.

    Parent

    A lot of wise advice and some solid info (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by Peter G on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 10:43:38 PM EST
    in this substack from Joyce Vance, a very experienced former federal prosecutor from Alabama, and no fan of the present administration. Mostly how long this kind of investigation can take (and why), and how it is important not to expect quick answers or jump to conclusions (as she and her colleagues did in the Atlanta Olympic bombing case).

    Parent
    The news is sobering this morning (none / 0) (#157)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 06:42:52 AM EST
    Very tense crazy times right now. The "do-over" is an uber drag.

    Parent
    Not well. And droopy (none / 0) (#136)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 04:22:03 PM EST
    Trump (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 05:32:01 PM EST
    I saw that (none / 0) (#147)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 06:52:26 PM EST
    and thought the same thing.

    Parent
    Or he has (none / 0) (#152)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 08:04:26 PM EST
    Bells Palsy. My mother had it. She had this face drooping issue.

    Parent
    Did it develop (none / 0) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 09:11:41 PM EST
    Overnight?

    Parent
    Oh, he looks awful. (none / 0) (#143)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 05:45:04 PM EST
    That guy (none / 0) (#140)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 05:07:09 PM EST
    looked like he didn't know what was going on but I didn't have sound. So maybe he was cheering and I couldn't hear it.

    Medal of Freedom (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 06:34:13 PM EST

    Trump to Award Charlie Kirk With Presidential Medal of Freedom After Assassination

    The Evangelicals are calling him a Martyr.  Maybe.   But I wonder which of his beliefs caught up with him.

    Calling MLK a rapist (none / 0) (#153)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 08:34:19 PM EST
    and speaking of rape, Charlie of course was in favor of forcing rape victims to carry the baby to term.

    Just like Jesus would've done.

    Parent

    That idiotic ominous (none / 0) (#150)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 11, 2025 at 07:49:12 PM EST
    music, among other things, makes me half-suspect that's some AI bs. Who stands up and laughs and waves their arms seconds after shots have been fired?

    Morons are already trying to exploit what happened to drum-up a 'this means war!' narrative.

    So they have a suspect (none / 0) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 08:11:12 AM EST
    Of course I meant (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 08:14:06 AM EST
    DON'T look like liberal attire

    Looks a little incel to me.

    Parent

    2014 tweet (none / 0) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 08:37:48 AM EST

    Charlie Kirk

    @charliekirk11
    Did I just get shot by an AR-15? Feels like it.
    6:57 PM · Jun 22, 2014

    Parent

    Kirk's tweets echo in the hall of his history (none / 0) (#162)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 09:51:25 AM EST
    22 yr old out of a gun loving law enforcement family? Practically impossible he isn't a registered Republican.

    Parent
    Everyone take a deep breath (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 10:13:33 AM EST
    We all want to know right away, but that is not how to get reliable information. Speculation is a waste of mental energy. So is focusing on the legally ignorant, fact-free, inhumane, strident, partisan b/s that comes out of the White House.

    Parent
    Fair enough (none / 0) (#164)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 10:19:40 AM EST
    But I would be surprised if a registered Democrat would wear that shirt.

    I guess he could have dressed for the occasion..  it will be interesting to find out.

    And it shouldn't take long.


    Parent

    I wouldn't necessarily trust or believe (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 10:28:34 AM EST
    anything I hear today or in the next week, for that matter, from the FBI or from the Utah state police. Not as gospel, for sure. I have been a criminal defense lawyer my whole career, as has our host, Jeralyn. Folks in our line of work know there are a minimum of two sides to every story/case. As one of my mentors used to say (sometimes in arguing before juries), "There is no pancake so thin that it does not have two sides."

    Parent
    Neera Tanden knows something (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 12:55:06 PM EST
    She says the Trump administration is dramatically shifting away from Charlie Kirk's shooting now because of the shooters motives.

    Parent
    It would be pretty funny (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    if they make this a big deal just to learn it lead back to Epstein.

    Parent
    Epstein? (none / 0) (#175)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 01:03:18 PM EST
    Nope (none / 0) (#177)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 01:15:22 PM EST
    A war between Charlie Kirk followers and Nick Fuentes followers. Nick Fuentes followers (known as groypers) believe that Charlie Kirk was a little light in his leanings and he was preventing the Republican party from becoming its true self or something like that. Nick Fuentes followers had been attending Kirk performances as disrupters.This was Charlie's first gig starting a new tour.

    One of the interviewers on Fox asked Trump how we were going to fix this country? We have these extremists, even on the right? And Trump cut her off and told her he really didn't care lol. Now the Utah governor's speech this morning makes sense. I couldn't get it to make sense at all when I first heard it this morning. I sat here scratching my head trying to decipher where he was going with it. It sounded unhinged and disjointed.

    Parent

    So some of the video showing attendees (none / 0) (#178)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 01:19:10 PM EST
    Cheering after Kirk was shot should not be assumed to be liberals. They can also be groypers.

    Parent
    These days I start from the premise (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 03:34:12 PM EST
    that 'videos' are horseshit and posted with thoroughly manipulative  click-bait intent, until definitively proven otherwise.

    AI now has an honored place in the right's Nixonian dirty tricks tool box. All they care about is winning, and they don't care how they do it.

    Parent

    Here Baby (none / 0) (#180)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 01:42:34 PM EST
    NYTimes Nick Fuentes

    Don't tell Armando I referenced the NYTimes lol.

    Parent

    But Fuentes (none / 0) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 02:21:39 PM EST
    has been dumping on the Epstein story.  And Kirk is exactly the opposite.

    The warning camps could certainly involve Epstein

    Parent

    Yeah, Josh says (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 02:46:56 PM EST
    Epstein is part of why Charlie sucks in a groyper's eyes, but it is far from all of it.

    To understand the writings on the bullet casings you literally need to go bathe in the right-wing incel soup. Or...you can have Josh on speed dial. He studied this stuff as it all formed, it dovetailed into what he went to college for. Sometimes he speaks and my jaw hits the floor and I wonder where the hell I've been?

    Parent

    Google (none / 0) (#187)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 02:29:25 PM EST
    AI Overview

    Nick Fuentes and the Epstein case have been part of the ongoing news and political discussions surrounding conservative activist Charlie Kirk, who was assassinated in September 2025. The connection involves Kirk's previous conflict with Fuentes and Kirk's public statements regarding the Jeffrey Epstein case.

    Parent

    Turns out (none / 0) (#165)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 10:26:07 AM EST
    it's reported he was registered as a "nonpartisan voter"

    Parent
    Raise your hand if you agree (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 10:37:50 AM EST
    The way you do it (none / 0) (#169)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 11:42:36 AM EST
    is to point to God's most hateful, violence-promoting words in the Old Testament and then say "I didn't say it, God sez it."

    Parent
    Here, you'll like this: (none / 0) (#202)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 09:22:28 PM EST
    "He's back - and he's preaching anything but forgiveness." LINK.

    Parent
    An interesting explanation (none / 0) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 11:17:49 AM EST
    of the stuff on the ammo.  It looks like some gamer stuff

    Cox said that casings from the weapon used to kill Kirk were found to have several anti-fascist messages engraved on them, including one referencing the Italian anti-fascist song Bella Ciao.

    One engraving read 'Hey Fascists, Catch!' - next to an up arrow symbol, right arrow symbol and three down arrow symbols - and another read 'If You Read This You Are Gay LMAO', Cox said.


    --

    Evan Hill
    @evanhill
    First one, which was on the fired casing, is a copypasta parodying furries. Second is probably a reference to calling in an airstrike in the massively multiplayer online game Helldivers. Third seems to be referring to "Bella ciao," an Italian song dedicated to anti-Nazi partisans. Fourth just a troll joke



    how can they not know (none / 0) (#207)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Sep 13, 2025 at 05:00:50 PM EST
    that "Bella ciao" was the theme song in Money Heist, one of the all time most-watched series on Netflix in 93 (or some such number of) countries.

    Parent
    Brian Beutler (none / 0) (#172)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 12:31:59 PM EST
    presents, in my view, a thoughtful essay on the Kirk murder, including a discussion of Ezra Klein's curious position that "Charlie Kirk Practiced Politics the Right Way."

    How responsible of that reprehensible (none / 0) (#181)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 01:44:43 PM EST
    Murdoch rag the WSJ, to falsely report that ammunition casings were inscribed with 'trans ideology' and then walk it back afterwards.

    There was a time when other publications would tear into the WSJ for pulling that kind of thing, but those days now seem to be gone.


    Maybe, just maybe, (none / 0) (#182)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 01:53:27 PM EST
    the Crackpot's Civil War will be called off, or postponed.  The alleged shooter, Tyler Robinson, appears to be demographically uncooperative.  

    Yeah, not a trans illegal (none / 0) (#184)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 02:10:30 PM EST
    with blue hair who reads Das Kapital and burns Bibles. And so on and so forth.

     

    Parent

    I wonder if this is about tariffs (none / 0) (#199)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2025 at 06:18:18 PM EST
    Getting the public gradually exposed to the idea they might uphold the law.  Maybe?  Hopefully.

    --
    Kavanaugh Says No One Should Have Too Much Power
    September 12, 2025 at 1:52 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 107 Comments

    "Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh stressed the importance of the separation of powers in government during a rare appearance at a Texas community college Thursday, despite mounting criticism against the court for decisions favoring President Trump's administration," The Hill reports.

    Said Kavanaugh: "The framers recognized, in a way that I think is brilliant, that preserving liberty requires separating the power. No one person or group of people should have too much power in our system.