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Wednesday Open Thread:

Busy work day.

Turkey has taken over Jarabulus in Syria. The U.S. aided the effort with airstrikes. According to Twitter analysts, ISIS had already gone, so there wasn't much of a fight. More like they turned the town over. Still, it's the first time Turkey used its own forces for a military operation against ISIS in Syria.

Looks like it was co-leader of Sinaloa Ismael "Mayo" Zambada-Garcia (background here) who conducted the negotiations to free El Chapo's son. Most media now agree both sons were kidnapped. It's still unclear who was behind the kidnappings and what kind of ransom was paid, money or ceding of territory or neither. [More...]

El Mayo has been under U.S. Indictment in the U.S. since 2003.

Two of Mayo's sons are in the U.S. awaiting sentencing after pleading guilty and agreeing to cooperate (Jesus Vicente Zambada-Niebla and Seraphin Zambada) and a third, Ismael Zambada Imperial aka Mayito, was approved for extradition to San Diego in November. Mayo's brother was extradited in 2012, four years after his arrest in Mexico. He was indicted in Brooklyn in 2009 (along with El Chapo and Mayo and others). He too is reportedly cooperating. (His first son was found hanged while in witness protection and his second son was killed in December, 2015.)

So while Mexico and its helper-buddy the DEA can't locate the six kidnapped men, the fugitive El Mayo, age 67, who has never been arrested, successfully negotiates the kidnapped sons' release right under their noses and scoots them back home to Sinaloa, where they have enough protection in the rugged terrain to avoid the clutches of the DEA and PGR.

I wonder whether Mexico and the DEA agreed the bloodbath that would result if either son was killed was not worth it, and it was better to let Mayo work with the responsible parties and leave the captures of all of them for another day.

There seem to now be three theories of whose responsible: CJNG, or the son of Alfredo Beltran-Leyva (Alfredo Beltran Guzman, nephew of El Chapo) or Mini-Lic (Damaso Lopez Serrano, son of Damaso Lopez Nunez, aka "El Licenciado", the former prison official who helped El Chapo escape from prison in 2001 and then joined the cartel, who is wanted on a 2011 Indictment in the Eastern District of Virginia). Was it about territory or just a clan fight? No one knows yet. Given the outcome, it will probably not weaken Sinaloa.

Alfredo Beltran-Leyva is facing a government request for a life sentence on a guilty plea, and the forfeiture of $10 billion. If he had any information on others to cooperate with, and was inclined to do so, I think he would have done it by now. Maybe his son's motives in attacking El Chapo's mother's house (and if he played a role in the kidnappings) is trying to make El Chapo's sons crawl out from the woodwork and retaliate so they get captured and his father gets the credit -- with a sentence of less than life. Just speculation on my part. Here are some photos of the younger Beltran-Guzman's 2013 "narco-camp. Here's a government filing on the evidence it intended to introduce against Alfredo Beltran-Leyva had he gone to trial.

That's all I've got time for today, this is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Sunday Night Open Thread | Rudy Giuliani's Glass House >
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    Contiuned Carville style (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 02:42:51 PM EST
    pushback regarding the Clinton Foundation should continue,  As Carville stated yesterday:

    People will die because of the attacks on the Foundation.

    People who interfere with the Foundation are going to Hell.

    The foundation takes money from rich people and gives it to poor people.

    The foundation has saved millions from dying of AIDS and driven the price of malaria drugs down by 90%.

    Hillary and Bill take $0 from their charities,  Nada, zip, zero.

    The attacks on the Foundation and Hillary are despicable.

    This is the swiftboating of this election cycle.

    The people (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 03:03:28 PM EST
    that are doing this are beyond disgusting. They are willing to let children go hungry and people die of AIDS because of their own self serving arrogance.

    Parent
    I agree. (none / 0) (#103)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 01:02:07 PM EST
    Without Chelsea's six figure salary, the cure for AIDS is beyond human reach. Think of the children.  Plus, if not for the foundation, who would pay her retainers that staff the joint?

    The Eppipen may cost a lot, but the money has to come from somewhere for the Mylan CEO's Clinton foundation donation. That she is the daughter of a Dem senator is just so perfect.

    Parent

    You alt-right (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 01:16:17 PM EST
    people are disgusting. It's about getting needed meds to people who did not have access before. But that's okay with you guys simply because as we already know you guys deem these people that are being helped as the "unworthy". You are not capable of basic human dignity. Go ahead and embrace the neo nazis and the white nationalists and everybody else you are in love with and tout them as the only people who are worthy of any human compassion.

    Parent
    It's about getting needed meds to people (1.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 04:38:53 PM EST

    How do you know?  What percentage of the foundations revenue went to that use?  

    I for one would not give meds designated money to a charity that spent more on salaries and travel expenses than on meds.

    Parent

    89% (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 04:57:28 PM EST
    of the foundations revenue went directly to people in need. That is according to charity watch organizations.

    You are completely wrong on the facts but then that is nothing knew. It is one of the best run charities in existence. You are repeating talking points from the neo nazi alt-right who want to destroy the foundation because it helps the "unworthy"

    fact check

    Parent

    what a sorry bunch (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:30:49 PM EST
    Perhaps Bill and Hillary should have retired nicely on book royalties and occasional speeches and ceased to be productive citizens. They both work long hours doing for others -- and actually getting things done. What kind of role models are these?

    Parent
    You really are quite ignorant (1.00 / 1) (#150)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:34:17 PM EST
    About the whole charitable organization process, aren't you.
    They CLAIM 89% went to programmable expenses.
    You have no clue as to what that encompasses, do you?
    It did not go to people directly in need. You are quite the scattershot machinegun of misinformation

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#156)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 07:08:19 PM EST
    Trevor. A charity rating big wig came out and said whatever you think of Hillary 88 and some odd percentage is what the Clinton Foundation puts directly into helping people. I rounded it up to 89%. It is a five star charity. It helps people all over the world. You conservatives would destroy anything you can in your attempt to make other people suffer.

    The fact that you don't understand nonprofit accounting does not mean that you are allowed to lie and make stuff up.

    Parent

    Like talking to a wall (none / 0) (#161)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 07:57:05 PM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/oj72mme

    Guidestar tax returns

    You really want to know what they include in that 89% programmable expenses...take a look

    21 million of salary expense   they claim 17 ,illion is programmable expense
    Payroll taxes, employee benefits   Programmable expenses
    Office supplies   programmable expenses
    Travel, conferences , meetings depreciation
    You got it    programmable expenses

    So NO!!  

    of the foundations revenue went directly to people in need.
      Misinformation galore


    Parent
    Wow, tax returns made public (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by MKS on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 08:46:58 PM EST
    And this tells you what?  That aid is not given to those in need, that admin expenses exceed the industry average?

    Conservatives used to be all about how private charity could supplant government.  But they seem to be allergic to one particularly successful charity.

    And, hey, tax returns.  How about Trump giving us his?

    Parent

    They have to (none / 0) (#176)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 03:47:40 AM EST
    No choice in the matter

    Nothing wrong with charities.

    But when they are tied to political candidates, Sec of State, and access to government is given preference to donors, and foreign countries with human rights issues are given arms deals, after donations to said charity, or the SOS husband,
    There is your issue.

    Please, it is not hard to keep it.
    THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITh CHARITIES

    See, Simple

    Parent

    And, Red Cross President (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 02:15:26 PM EST
    being married to Senate Majority leader was just fine?

    And the Points of Light Foundation while a relative was POTUS.

    You guys are quite selective.

    You are talking about one specific scenario--but you  have to cut and paste events to fit your narrative.  And rely on conjecture and speculation.  And lack real evidence.  But nonetheless it is now a true fact in the conservative bubble.

    And, through it all Bill and Hillary took no money from the Foundation.  It just amazes me how right wingers and much of the press just elide over this key fact. Pay to play and the pay goes to where?  To Bill?  Nope.  To Hillary?  Nope.  Where does it go?  How about medicine for kids?  Wow that is just so corrupt.

    And the talking heads refuse to let people explain what the Foundation does.  They talk over Clinton supporters when they try to explain this.  It is like they are putting fingers in their ears and don't want to listen or anyone else to hear.  The talking heads interrupt and say, yeah, the foundation does "good work" (describing in vague terms so the uninformed will learn nothing), but it looks bad.  

    No, the overall impression is that Hillary is pocketing the money for herself.  Thus, Rudy Giuliani's claim of corruption.  So, the right wing and much of the media is foisting a big lie on the public.      

    Parent

    Trevor (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:01:07 PM EST
    you don't know how to read a non profit tax return. Fund balance 247 million, salaries 29 million leaving a what is returned to outside organizations of 88.2% making it an outstanding charity worthy of 5 stars. You are trying to make it like a regular balance sheet that Trump would send out. FYI non profit accounting is completely different than for profit accounting. The alt-right is playing you for a fool once again but you'll continue to let them.

    Parent
    You are a brick wall, lol (none / 0) (#175)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 03:47:32 AM EST
    But, but, but

    You forgot to add all every other expense deemed Program expense, lol.

    How convenient.

    Who the hell is the Alt right?

    You are like a puppy with a new chew toy

    Heres a new one for you

    ALT RIGHT

    Now go chew

    Parent

    You are in essence (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 02:24:01 PM EST
    attacking the Foundation as a bogus charity.  That would surprise the millions who have benefitted.  And some proof would be nice.  Before making such an accusation.

    But charge on.  I agree with Carville that those who are interfering the Foundation are putting lives at risk.  Just for political gain.  And for Catholics, there is a place in Hell for those who stand in the way of the good work being done.

    Parent

    There's a reason (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:17:42 PM EST
    why Trump is losing Catholic voters by the bucket. Going after the Clinton Foundation is one of the ways to run those voters off.

    Conservatives are attacking because they are afraid. They know they are about to be wiped out and they are cornered rats.

    I'm sure they are rolling the tape of people who have worked for the foundation or have been helped by the foundation, who's life was saved.

    The fact that conservatives would do something so despicable should surprise no one. They are completely bankrupt.

    Parent

    No, No, & No (none / 0) (#195)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:39:05 PM EST
    The Clintons may be ethically challenged,

    But they are not stupid.

    It is not a bogus charity, nor have I ever said that. Once again, someone puts their thoughts as my words.

    I disagreed and pointed out what they are claiming as 89% programmable expenditures, per their tax return, meaning that 89% number ain't all that.

    But I have been claiming that they also use the Foundation as a vehicle to hire friends (Sid Blumenthal) , and gather influence. There is no doubt that the Foundation was used a a fast track access (Paying for access) to see Madame Sec. There is no other explanation for Bands numerous e mails to Abedin saying she has to squeeze someone in. That is a political favor, given to those who donated to the Clinton Foundation. Other quid pro quo's are there but will be harder to pinpoint, but there is plenty of smoke.
    One for instance was that short lived appointment to the nuclear board of some businessman who donated to the Foundation. And once the press started asking for his qualifications, it was quickly withdrawn. That was a ill thought out favor

    Parent

    Please quit believing right wing memes (none / 0) (#185)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:19:08 AM EST
    Trevor (none / 0) (#187)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:42:28 PM EST
    has chosen to throw his lot in with the alt-right. It's certainly his choice. He gets all his information from them. When you understand that you understand why he does what he does.

    Parent
    This kind (none / 0) (#198)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:44:33 PM EST
    Of comment, if prevalent, will turn off many independent voters.

    So either you are for Madame Sec, or you are a eeeevil racist.

    No, there is not a lot of thought in your comment

    Parent

    Kind of ironic (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:23:29 PM EST
    because first of all we all know you are never going to vote for Hillary. You have made it quite clear over and over how much you hate her. Secondly Republicans praised the speech. You would think they would not have liked it if you were right.  

    You have embraced the alt right and that is your choice. I hate to tell you but the alt right is about more than just racism unless you consider antisemitism racism also. It's also about Dominionism too. Hence the religious litmus tests they want everyone to meet.

    Parent

    You are such a fool (none / 0) (#200)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:39:09 PM EST
    Spouting such ignorance

    I had my own Yarmulke, grew up in Far Rockaway,

    There would be a rotating Maj Jong game all the women in the neighborhood would host. Those were fun, lots of pretzels, chips and cheese doodles. Oh, and the smoke filled basement, like a real dragons den.
    And Purim was my favorite Jewish holiday, thats where I would wear my yarmulke( got it at a bar mitzvah to Temple, boy they handed out a lot of goodies that day. My Jewish friends insisted we go, and only had to laugh as Brian Kane and I sitting up front, as the Rabbi says, my, we have a lot of new faces today, Brian's face was the map of Ireland.
    So Please, throw your racist insulting tripe in another direction, you know nothing of me or about me, other than I will not vote for Madame Sec, and my favorite album was Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars

    Parent

    We only know what you say (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:45:12 PM EST
    Trevor.  What you condemn what you defend who you like and who you dislike.  And who you give "5s" to.   And you know what?   That actually tells us all we need to know.

    I'm sorry if that distresses you.


    Parent

    Trevor (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:58:48 PM EST
    we go by what you actually say and post here and it is straight out of the alt right. You have been enabling the alt right by your spreading of lies about Hillary. And you're spreading the same lies the alt right is. This much we all know and see around here. You can't have it both ways.

    Parent
    What an absolutely perfect (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 03:12:24 PM EST
    Distillation of the CGI bullsh!t this comment is.  Kudos.   But then you hardly ever disappoint.

    Parent
    BS? (none / 0) (#122)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 04:40:26 PM EST

    Are you asserting that Manchin's daughter is not the Mylan CEO?  

    Parent
    The Clinton Foundatiion filled (none / 0) (#164)
    by MKS on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 08:42:40 PM EST
    a void in NGOs helping in the developing world.  It is not easy getting aid to those who need it.

    Bill Clinton gave the organization prestige and celebrity,  and his talent and knowledge.  The result:   10 million saved from AIDs.  Also, half of the poor of the developing world receive AIDs drugs because of CGI.

    The critics just gloss over this.

    Tweety said yesterday that his son worked for the Clinton Foundation in Africa, ensuring that aid was not snatched by corrupt local officials and actually got to the people.

    If an investigation is needed, it is needed to explore just what the Clinton Foundation does, and the people it helps.  It appears few know about this.

    Parent

    Taking the Clinton Rules-loving media ... (5.00 / 5) (#15)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 03:22:13 PM EST
    ... at their word that the issue here is quid pro quo, doesn't there first have to be an actual quid pro quo arrangement in place in order to substantiate that claim?

    Perception is not reality, and innuendo is not fact. To any well-educated and reputable journalist, this is axiomatic. Those in the business who believe otherwise are a bona fide disgrace to their chosen profession -- and yeah, I'm looking right at you, Chris Cillizza.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I've never seen the kind of pushback (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 04:17:45 PM EST
    The Clinton people are doing on this.  They are getting angry with idiots like Chuck Todd.  It's a wonderful thing to see.  

    One said something like 'if people have a problem with the Clinton Foundation saving lives with AIDS drugs then don't vote for her'.

    Parent

    I saw today's pushback on Chuck Todd. (5.00 / 5) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 07:54:37 PM EST
    Clinton senior advisor Joe Benenson didn't give an inch, even telling Todd at one point to shut up and let him finish his sentence, albeit a wee bit more politely than I've just intimated.

    Of all the angles that the media have taken to portray Mrs. Clinton in a negative light, this sliming of the Clinton Foundation is both the most asinine and the most despicable, given the good work that the foundation does worldwide. The folks at the Associated Press should be ashamed of themselves for publishing such a foul and trashy piece of hackitude.

    Not only did the AP blatantly misrepresent the actual number of people Mrs. Clinton met as Secretary of State, they failed to factor out those involved in organizations that had ongoing business before the State Department, or the number of groups who were involved in programs with USAID.

    Further, a fair number of the people in the AP's list, including Nobel Peace Prize laureate Muhammad Yunus, did not donate personally to foundation, but were associated with organizations that did, a clear distinction which the AP declined to make. Another person on the AP list was Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel. Secretary Clinton also met with the former South African President Nelson Mandela, whose own foundation once contributed to the Clinton Global Initiative.

    Those damned Nobel Peace Prize laureates! Can no one rid us of these moralizing reprobates and thus put an end to their nefarious left-wing and influence-peddling ways?

    I mean, really. If you can't say something nice about Bill and Hillary Clinton, Mrs. Alan Greenspan would like you to give her a call and tell her all about it. Is this what the media has been reduced to?

    We deserve far better than the scandalmongering and fact-free shillfest we're getting over our public airwaves, and it's high time we demanded better. Personally, I'm all for targeting and going after journo-pundits who spin stories like this out of whole cloth. When they do so, they deliberately insert themselves into their own storylines and thus render themselves fair game.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    It is (5.00 / 5) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 08:05:35 PM EST
    completely and utterly despicable and the fact that 75% of children with AIDS get their medication through the Clinton Foundation should be something to ponder. I guess people like Todd and Mitchell don't care about "those people" or "those children". They are the unworthy, the forgotten people who don't matter to conservatives. They can just be roadkill as far as conservatives are concerned on their way to complete annihilation.

    If this does not show the utter bankruptcy of the conservative "movement" nothing does. They used to believe in private charity but I guess now they don't since the Clintons are doing it.

    Parent

    As I noted in the previous Open Thread, ... (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 08:31:47 PM EST
    ... Trump used $12,000 in funds from his own charitable foundation in 2012 to buy himself a football helmet signed by Tim Tebow.

    The following year, Trump used another $25,000 in foundation money to donate to Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi's political campaign, and it's probably not merely coincidental that the donation was made right after her office declined in investigate allegations of fraud at Trump University.

    And yet, per our illustrious mainstream media, we're supposed to believe that the Clinton Foundation is the tax-exempt nonprofit with the legal and ethical entanglements.

    Yeah, right.

    Parent

    I always remember an interview I heard with (none / 0) (#27)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 04:48:59 PM EST
    George Harrison a long time ago, where he talked about all the grief he got with his Bengla Desh charity work.In that marvelous accent he said they just make it so hard to do anything good for people.

    It really would have been political malpractice for the Clintons not to have a full bore defense of this one ready. They should have seen it coming from 10000 miles away, even without the accompanying email ridiculousness.

    Parent

    As the old axiom says, ... (none / 0) (#49)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 08:10:24 PM EST
    ... no good deed goes unpunished.

    Parent
    Isn't it wonderful (none / 0) (#30)
    by mogal on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 04:53:04 PM EST
    I was getting very upset today until I started reading this open thread and was reminded than there are still many intelligent people who are interested in politics.  

    Parent
    Seeing to expression of (5.00 / 7) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 05:00:51 PM EST
    Shock on the talking heads is a wonderful wonderful thing.  Chris Jansing, Ms Greenspan and Chuck Terd were all speechless when the interviewees stopped playing the game and called them out on their bullsh!t.  Wonderful.  

    I really hope it's a part of a larger change in tactics.   I thnk people would would love it.    I know I would.

    It would not surprise me if the campaign had tested this.  It definitely seems coordinated.  I've seen three of them and Howard go ballistic this afternoon.

    Parent

    Bloomberg is on right now doing the same thing. (none / 0) (#32)
    by mogal on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 05:09:15 PM EST
    I should have added, tearing Clinton's apart. (none / 0) (#33)
    by mogal on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 05:11:17 PM EST
    POLITICO (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 05:18:47 PM EST
    RUN OUT THE CLOCK

    Indeed, without new information and barring a dramatic improvement in Trump's numbers, the Clinton team thinks it would be a mistake for the candidate or her surrogates to respond.
    One source close to the campaign said Clinton officials want to see if the Republicans overplay their hand while hammering Clinton on an issue that close to two-thirds of voters, according to a Monmouth University poll, said they were sick of hearing about -- last year



    Parent
    I watching Howard Dean (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 03:28:26 PM EST
    Rip the press a new one.  This is great.  It will definitely be on the web.   Saying he totally understands why she won't do a press conference.  The media is a witch hunt.    Relating some of his own stories about the press.  Naming names.   Awsum.

    Reading that the campaign is basically planning to ignore the email krap.    The believe the public is as sick of it as they are.  I think they are probably right.

    Parent

    I hope so (none / 0) (#26)
    by mogal on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 04:46:03 PM EST
    Howard Dean (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 03:32:50 PM EST
    just gave it to Chris Jansing on MSNBC.

    He would not give a press conference if he were Hillary.  

    The AP article proves how the press will not be fair, and is biased against Hillary.

    Melinda Gates was one of the people that Hillary met with that the AP counted as being part of these nefarious meetings.  Bill and Melinda Gates gave a lot of money to the Clinton Foundation.  The AP thought there was something wrong with that.

    Chris Jansing was taken aback.

    Those who continue the attacks on the Foundation will cause people to die.

    Parent

    We are not the only ones who noticed (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 03:33:38 PM EST
    Thanks @GovHowardDean for putting it into words so well with @MSNBC about press conf &HRC u r absolutely right. Feeding frenzy is accurate!
    3 mins ago - Twitter


    Parent
    The irrelevance (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by KeysDan on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 05:17:45 PM EST
    of the press conference has passed the press by.  The merits of a press conference have been self-eclipsed by the press's penchant to self-promote by sharing the spotlight.  The questions are, in greatest measure, inane without thought of a follow-up.  

    The press conference is important to the press corps, but much less so to the public. Savvy candidates and celebrities, have discarded this relic and moved to social media and other means of communication, such as lengthy one on one interviews and appearances on talk shows.

    It may not be a good development, but the discounted value of the press conference is self-inflicted.  No need for Mrs. Clinton to resuscitate this dying animal only to have it indiscriminately maul her.

    Parent

    It was a thing of beauty (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 06:37:21 PM EST
    One comment by Dean was just brutal and true:  It is the press's fault that Trump is the nominee; if the press had done its job, Trump would not be the nominee.

      Further, MSNBC insiders told Dean that they put Trump on the air for the ratings.

    Parent

    It's interesting this is still not up anywhere (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 07:12:58 PM EST
    I could only find one link to the right wing Daily Caller and it says it has video but there was no video for me.

    Someone should try who is not on an iPad mini and see if a video shows up.

    I wonder if MSNBC is quashing that video because of the viciousness of the attack?

    It would not surprise me.

    Parent

    It's not (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 07:20:56 PM EST
    the ipad. I'm on a desktop and there is no video just a picture of Dean but I googled and found nothing up.

    Parent
    Finally (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 08:17:35 PM EST
    The AP article was unfair (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by KeysDan on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 05:31:26 PM EST
    because its conclusions were topsy turvy--the conclusions should have been that the study showed that there was an actual firewall between the Clinton Foundation and the work of the Secretary of State.  Even the body of the article does not support the notion purveyed by its lede.  AP, if it is to offer "investigative journalism" it owes the reader a decent study design.  Or, if it has an agenda, to organize a design that confirms its preconceived ideas.  As it is, it becomes not so much yellow journalism, but, the currently popular, in some quarters, color of orange.

    Parent
    VOX (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 03:37:50 PM EST
    THE APs CLINTON FOUNDATION STORY IS A MESS

    Except it turns out not to be true. The nut fact that the AP uses to lead its coverage is wrong, and Braun and Sullivan's reporting reveals absolutely no unethical conduct. In fact, they found so little unethical conduct that an enormous amount of space is taken up by a detailed recounting of the time Clinton tried to help a former Nobel Peace Prize winner who's also the recipient of a Congressional Gold Medal and a Presidential Medal of Freedom.



    Parent
    I (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by FlJoe on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 09:55:09 PM EST
    am totally gobsmacked by the fact that the vast majority of the commentariat on CNN seems to have forgotten the concept of charity.  

    Parent
    yes Carville started the pushback (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:24:25 PM EST
    Tues night. Then midday yesterday, Bob Shrum pushed back so hard then Andrea Mitchell could hardly recover - he called her out for not knowing facts and instead pushing falsehoods. I am so sick of these expensively educated talking heads who have no respect for truth, critical analysis or research. Why don't we all just agree to cancel news shows for lack of news and agrewewagree that only fiction should be aired. Soap operas are a better reflection of reality. And Mika B has to be next -she has been slamming Hillary this week by simply parroting the headlines and has obviously not done any fact- checking. Ugh.

    Parent
    That underlining function worked (none / 0) (#13)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 03:13:35 PM EST
    a little too well.

    Parent
    New national monument created... (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by desertswine on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 04:24:57 PM EST
    President Obama announced the creation of the Katahdin Woods and Waters National Monument on Wednesday, just one day before the 100th anniversary of the National Park Service.

    "The new monument encompasses some 87,500 acres of "awe-inspiring mountains, forests and waters," as the White House puts it. The land "is rich in biodiversity and known for its outstanding opportunities to hike, canoe, hunt, fish, snowmobile, snowshoe and cross-country ski," the administration notes."

    It was donated by Roxanne Quimby, to co-founder of Burt's Bees products.

    This was not without opposition... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 04:50:58 PM EST
    including Maine's heavy duty wingnut Governor.

    Good for Obama for pushing this through - and abiding by the wishes of the donor.


    Parent

    Great! I will remember that when I apply (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 04:52:05 PM EST
    my favorite Burt's Bees lip balm. Glad my money went to someone so generous.

    Parent
    "the", not "to." (none / 0) (#25)
    by desertswine on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 04:26:22 PM EST
    Definitely a double standard (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by pitachips on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 09:21:56 PM EST
    Hillary isn't doing anything that any other politician in her position wouldn't do.

    But I have to say it is pretty sad to see people bring up dying children and victims of AIDS as a shield from criticism that is well deserved. Team Clinton has been sloppy in its response to the entire email fiasco.

    What exactly do you want Mrs. Clinton to do? (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 10:39:17 PM EST
    Throw herself off a tall building into the front of an oncoming train? She's already apologized repeatedly for the email server and said she made a mistake. Both she and her campaign have issued enough mea culpas on the subject to monopolize all the confessionals in St. Peter's Basilica for both the Christmas and Easter seasons.

    It's long been clear that the GOP right isn't interested in her apologies. Let's please not pretend that when it comes to all things Bill and Hillary Clinton, their politics hasn't long since morphed into one of viciousness and personal destruction.

    As for your notion that the criticism of the Clinton Foundation is somehow "well deserved," you too need to educate yourself about its mission and operations, rather than simply regurgitate the latest GOP talking point du jour.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    criticism of how they've handled the situation (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by pitachips on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:50:54 AM EST
    is well deserved.

    The fact that the campaign has to apologize so many times is part of the problem. They've allowed it to become this slow drip. It's amateurish and is a weakness in the campaign that will definitely become an issue once she is President. I am not criticizing from GOP "talking points" - you seem not to accept honest disagreement.

    I don't need to educate myself re: the Clinton Foundation - I've had family members work there and I'm originally from a nation where the foundation has had a very strong presence. Clinton and interestingly enough, Bush II, will always be held in high regard for the work they've done with HIV/AIDS treatment in Africa. But that has absolutely nothing to do with this issue and I'm pretty sure you know that.

    I completely understand always supporting the home team - especially when you have a fanatic like Trump on the other side. And again, politically to me it's a non-issue. I have no expectations of politicians when it comes to the issue of money/access. It doesn't necessarily bother me because at the end of the day this is all a side show. Real corruption, whether it is from the GOP or the DEM side, is hardly ever conducted through email. But it should be OK to disagree without being accused of wanting to kill children.

     

    Parent

    I (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 05:28:38 AM EST
    think the media is the problem, the multiple apologies are the result of the media's malfeasance. They are the ones who refuse to accept any explanation/apology/nuance to anything Clinton, instead carrying the water for the right wing attacks. The "slow drip" was always the plan of the Clinton attack machine when they first started sniffing around her emails and the media enables it.

    The media who have been cognizant of the CGI for 15 years and for the most part it has been lauded and considered very transparent. Now because of the right wing smears suddenly "questions are raised".

    While it's the job of the media to raise questions, it's a more important job for them to actually answer the questions, which they never seem to do. Instead they allow the harpies to literally accuse Hillary of crimes without a shred of evidence.

    Parent

    Considering (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:21:32 AM EST
    how badly the AP botched the story on the Clinton Foundation the evidence seems to back you up.

    Parent
    The (none / 0) (#74)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:54:24 AM EST
    problem being that no matter how botched the story is, it is still "out there".

    Parent
    There is no (none / 0) (#79)
    by MKS on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 08:34:57 AM EST
    "real corruption" with regard to the Clinton Foundation.

    Follow the money.  How much money did Hillary and Bill take from the Foundation?  Nada. Zip. Zero.  That is some corruption.

    And it is not hiding behind the Foundation's good works to make clear that the Foundation is a charitable organization.   That is the whole point.  This is not a failed casino business. This is not an oil company that pays the Clintons mega dividends.

    I agree with Carville--those who interfere with the Foundation's continued operation will cause people to die.

    Parent

    And the questions about the foundation really have (none / 0) (#80)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:10:04 AM EST
    nothing to do with the problems of having a private email server. People are making it all one big thing Clinton needs to 'apologize' for. It is a no win situation.

    As if we would not have allowed Bahrain to buy weapons if they had not contributed to charity? Puhleeease.

    Parent

    Corruption (none / 0) (#119)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 04:11:34 PM EST
    People who donate to the Foundation have a "Disney special" pass to access the SOS. Why does the Foundation President e mail Abedin saying this donor needs to see the SOS, can you make it happen. On too many occasions. Why couldn't these important people use the front door like everyone else did.

    Or foreign governments donate millions to the Foundation, then receive extra special military arms sales. And thenm call Bill in for a $500k speech
    C'mon, The Clintons are not stupid, the money doesn't flow directly into their pocket. It has to be laundered first.

    Parent

    Your whole (none / 0) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 05:02:23 PM EST
    sctick has fallen apart in the last 24 hours. The AP even had to say they didn't fact check their story. However as we know around here you are not big on facts and have embraced the alt-right.

    Just because you repeat a lie over and over doesn't make it true. I know Frank Luntz has you guys brainwashed with that BS but it does not work on people who actually haven't lost their ability to reason.

    Besides all that you have been 100% wrong since you started hanging out here.

    Parent

    You have (none / 0) (#145)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:20:53 PM EST
    nothing, so you use nonsense terms like "Disney special", grow up.

    Parent
    Didn't (none / 0) (#149)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:31:49 PM EST
    Madame Sec guarantee to President Obama there would no contact with the Clinton Foundation and the State Department.
    So why does the head of the Clinton Foundation repeatedly call Abedin requesting her to set up meetings for Foundation donors. C'mon, even you have to admit that stinks. Foundation donors got the Disney special , go to the front of the line.
    Thats called cashing in on connections, so promises to made to the President are worthless, how can the American public trust a promise from Madame Sec?
    And foreign governments getting arms deals, after conveniently donating to the Foundation, or paying Bill for a speech.

    Parent
    Better Start Practicing (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:55:16 PM EST
    You can spew all the rubbish you want but you'll still have to learn to say Madame President.

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#178)
    by mm on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:52:47 AM EST
    Madame Sec guarantee to President Obama there would no contact with the Clinton Foundation and the State Department.

    Absurd.

    She was Secretary of State.

    Parent

    Exactly (none / 0) (#179)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:14:50 AM EST
    She was the Secretary of State, in charge of the State Department
    She guaranteed the President that there would be no contact between the State Department and the Clinton Foundation

    Parent
    can you back up that? (none / 0) (#182)
    by mm on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:48:53 AM EST
    Where is this "guarantee" you feel was made? Not in the Memorandum of Understanding she was forced to agree to for her confirmation.

    And how was this "guarantee" violated? By meeting with Elie Wiesel?  By attending Kennedy Center Honors dinner and sitting at the dinner table with the wife of the Kennedy Center Chair, before introducing him as every other SoS has done in the past?

    Parent

    Lol (none / 0) (#196)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:41:05 PM EST
    Oh, you now recognize that SOS had control over the State Department.

    Just by all the e mails and phone logs between the Foundation management and her 2 top aides, Abedin and Mills

    Parent

    Isn't (none / 0) (#180)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:21:09 AM EST
    The Secretary of State in charge of the State Department????

    Parent
    For all the considerable b!+ching I've done about him and his administration, I've always credited him for two very good initiatives he undertook as president, for which I believe he's otherwise never really received proper due:

    • Increasing several-fold our efforts to combat HIV and AIDS in Africa, especially in east and southern Africa where the infection rate was approaching 20-25% of those regions' population, which has prevented an otherwise profound tragedy from evolving into a humanitarian catastrophe of an unimaginable scale;

    • Quadrupling the amount of federal spending in support of community health centers or FQHCs -- now known as federally-qualified health centers -- throughout the United States, which has since made an extraordinary difference in both the availability and the delivery of health and dental care to economically challenged populations, especially in rural America. (While the urban inner-city often provides the gritty photo backdrop for many stories about the poor, the most stubborn and intractable pockets of poverty in this country are often found in our neglected rural communities.)

    Aloha.

    Parent
    Glen Beck on Lawrence O'Donnell (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by mogal on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 09:56:42 PM EST
     Beck said Trump made him afraid  for our country. That  should be a wake up call for all us,  It was the most strong surprising, frightening  things  I heard this election cycle.  I hope his fan's heard this.

     

    This is the strangest (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 10:08:42 PM EST
    election year I have ever seen. Glenn Beck has been part of the problem. His conspiracy theories have fueled a ton of hatred in this country and now he's afraid of Trump? Truly I would have thought Beck would have been one of the first ones to embrace Trump though I think he has been against him from the beginning.

    Parent
    Beck (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 10:15:30 PM EST
    Is a true believer.  He is evil but he is also smart.  Smart enough to know Trump believes in nothing.  He has always known this and unlike others, Hannity, Limpbaugh, he has stuck by his principals even tho it has cost him audience.   I completely agree with mogal.  It was powerful.  Particularly the reason he was on the show which I posted about below.

    It may be smart.  When Trump goes down in flames the Trump cheerleaders are going to look pretty silly.

    Parent

    Speaking of Limbaugh (none / 0) (#64)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 10:29:00 PM EST
    did you see where he went on a multi hour tirade about how Obama was sending lesbian farmers into middle America to destroy conservatives. Oh, no, lesbian farmers are going to turn rural America blue!!!

    Only Limbaugh would be obsessed with lesbian farmers.

    Parent

    I heard Limbaugh ranting one time (none / 0) (#75)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 07:03:52 AM EST
    for like fifteen minutes about some horrible woman and her greedy fundraising activities and of course assumed he was talking about Hillary again, and it turned out to be that bane of the humanity, Lady Jane Goodall. One of the gentlest, most benign people on the planet.

    Parent
    Well, yeah! And you'd be alarmed, too, ... (none / 0) (#131)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 05:41:56 PM EST
    ... if you resided in the fetid fever swamps of the American far right, where lesbians have an obvious affinity for motorcycles, pickup trucks and tractors, and really like nothing better than to hunt down and beat up your daughter's boyfriend, steal her away from him and introduce her to the joys of leather, whips and chains.

    So when you stop and think about it, it's really only a matter of time before these Sapphic horrors and their mincy little gay male allies race down I-80 from both directions and turn every town between the Rockies and the Mississippi River, from south of the Ohio to the Gulf of Mexico, into bastardized Great Plains versions of West Hollywood and The Castro, unless real Americans can somehow draw a line in the sand and take a stand for the sake of wholesome goodness and decency everywhere.

    Therefore, Rush Limbaugh's lesbian farmer rant probably makes perfect sense to his intended audience. They're obviously obsessed by this stuff, given their propensity for educating themselves relentlessly on the subject of immoral sexual behavior:

    "However, there are some trends to be seen in the data. Those states that do consume the most p*rn tend to be more conservative and religious than states with lower levels of consumption, the study finds. 'Some of the people who are most outraged turn out to be consumers of the very things they claimed to be outraged by,' Edelman says."

    Gee, who would've figured that, eh? LOL!

    Parent

    Anne Rutledge died on this day in 1835 (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:43:38 AM EST
    from Spoon River Anthology..

      Out of me unworthy and unknown
      The vibrations of deathless music;
     "With malice toward none, with charity for
      all"
      Out of me the forgiveness of millions
      toward millions,
      And the beneficent face of a nation
      Shining with justice and truth.
      I am Anne Rutledge who sleep beneath these  
      weeds,
      Beloved in life of Abraham Lincoln,
      Wedded to him, not through union,
      But through seperation.
      Bloom forever, O Republic,
      From the dust of my bosom!

    If any of you (5.00 / 4) (#113)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 03:22:12 PM EST
    have not seen Hillary's speech today you should go watch it on CSPAN. Since our stupid media is so bad she had to point out how the GOP has become so radical and enthralled to the alt-right.

    Read the full text (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 03:26:59 PM EST
    BREITBART RESPONDS (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 04:06:35 PM EST

    Not for the first time, Hillary Clinton is about to dive into a topic she doesn't understand. In an attempt to frame Donald Trump as a dangerous extremist and panderer to racists, she is going to take on the alternative right.
    The move is purely cynical of course. Breitbart is the only major news site that has illuminating coverage to the alt-right, exploring its effect on the 2016 election without simple-minded denunciation or endorsement. Following the appointment of our then-executive chairman Stephen K. Bannon as Trump's campaign CEO, she wants to tie the Republican nominee to a movement that has been disingenuously smeared as nothing but white supremacists. Coming from a media and political class that regularly cheerleads for the appallingly racist, cop-killer cheering Black Lives Matter, the claim is rich.

    She will make no attempt to understand the nuances of this complex and fascinating movement, and will resort to BuzzFeed-esque simplifications in place of serious analysis. Well, nevermind -- that's what we're here for.

    LINK

    Parent

    Nothing but white supremacists.. (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 05:52:06 PM EST
    it should be their new tag line: " We're more than just white supremacists!"

    Parent
    Even they (none / 0) (#127)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 05:05:21 PM EST
    can't explain away their own problems. I mean that response is really borderline hysterical.

    Parent
    hillary's speech today was extraordinary (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:38:35 PM EST
    The whole text is available at Politico.
    Her speech was so well researched and written; and it struck a perfect tone - no name calling, just facts. Her speech reminded me of the portion of the movie, "The President," when, after Prez Michael Douglas finally gives a speech pushing back on the right-wing clap trap, Michael Fox declares that the press was so stunned they were frantically looking up the definition of erudite. The speech was inspiring -- IMO.

    Parent
    If you read all the way down (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 05:26:59 PM EST
    The defense seems to be

    WHAT?  We're not as crazy as THAT guy!

    Parent

    Honestly (none / 0) (#129)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 05:35:15 PM EST
    they should just admit what they are and say yes, we're white nationalists just like the KKK and run with it.

    Parent
    On Facebook (none / 0) (#132)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 05:42:19 PM EST
    the ad and the speech are creating a major meltdown on the right. Actually I was kind of surprised to see that reaction. I guess I should say the alt-right as the never Trump Republicans seemed to love the speech from what I saw on twitter.

    Parent
    That speech was something (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:09:05 PM EST
    It was unlike anything I have ever seen in my life as far as presidential politics.  And it is making and will continue to make waves.  It's going to get massive coverage.  Already is.  

    It was awsum.

    IMO the most insidious and inspired part was the stretch where she brought up past GOP nominees Dole, Bush, McCain and drew a line separating Trump from them.  Now, you we can argue about how completely factual that is.  We know the Republican Party has nodded and winked at all this stuff for decades.  But IMO politically it's genius.  

    Is this who you are, republicans?  Is this really who you want to be?

    Very smart.

    Parent

    It certainly (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 07:23:50 PM EST
    was something. People are seeing in that speech the Hillary that you and I have seen for a long time.

    And truly anyone who has followed Hillary's career knows that she means it. Even the Kos crowd was wowed by the speech mostly I think because they are glad that somebody is finally standing up and saying THIS IS WRONG.

    Parent

    I heard the spirit of Barbara Jordan (5.00 / 2) (#202)
    by Towanda on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:57:08 PM EST
    in Hillary Clinton's voice in that speech.

    Cheered by the spirits of voices from Shirley St. Hill Chisholm to Alice Paul to Ida B. Wells Barnett back to Susan B. Anthony and the host of others who have spoken truth to power -- especially to the power of the press, when misused.

    I am so fed up with media malpractice of the last few days, at last, that I cannot turn on a cable news channel.  I am watching old movies and HGTV, watching people planning moves to the Caribbean.  I understand that.

    Parent

    Very happy to take the dog whistle stuff (none / 0) (#139)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:10:33 PM EST
    down into the hearing range. I understand Obama can only do it up to a point without getting the 'angry black man' BS throw at him, so glad to see Hillary taking up the mantle. Good for her - she could still win without calling this stuff out.  For those concern trolls continuously looking for her heart and soul, and what she really believe in, here it is.

    Parent
    It was a truly remarkable list (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:14:47 PM EST
    When you just spell it all out like that.  I had actually forgotten a couple of those.  There has been so much.  Hearing it all at once is kind of overwhelming.

    And I agree.  It's easy for her to look perfectly sincere in her outrage.  

    Parent

    Yeah - lots of meat in there for anyone in (none / 0) (#146)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:24:12 PM EST
    the press to dig into when they get tired of reading Huma's emails arranging visitors for Madame Secretary.

    And lots to make Trump's blood boil and get him saying yet more stupid BS - though actually that is such a low bar, Clinton must be having fun toying with him.

    Parent

    More details of US swimmer scandal (none / 0) (#2)
    by McBain on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 02:00:35 PM EST
    Link
    As new details of the encounter continue to emerge, legal experts in Rio say the security guards' actions merit an investigation, claiming they might have broken Brazilian law by threatening the swimmers with guns as they demanded payment.

    This is from the previous open thread, I didn't realize a new one had opened. Sounds like a shakedown of James Feigen

    "I was eventually given two options. Option one was to remain in Brazil while the police continued the investigation. This process was estimated to take at least a month and I would be required to remain in Brazil. Option two was pay a fine of R$100,000.00 ($31,250.00 USD) for the return of my passport and perform fifteen days of community service.....

    Finally, all parties agreed to a R$35,000.00 ($10,800.00 USD) fine. This fine was to be paid within three days. If it was not paid, the fine would be increased back to R$150,000.00.

    Why did Feigen have to pay anything to get his passport and leave the country?  It's beginning to look like the swimmers didn't really do anything terribly wrong.  

    When (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 02:10:39 PM EST
    ...in your opinion, did a white guy ever do anything wrong?

    Parent
    The level of rationalization (none / 0) (#8)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 02:50:45 PM EST
    is something to behold.

    Parent
    Nothing wrong? (none / 0) (#4)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 02:34:34 PM EST
    Uri*ating on the station property, and breaking down a door?

    Ugly American stuff.

    Basically treating Rio like their own toilet because they are white guys from America.

    Parent

    It doesn't sound like anyone broke down a door (none / 0) (#9)
    by McBain on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 02:55:11 PM EST
    Or did any damage to the restroom according to USA today.  I'm not sure why they urinated in the alley.  Perhaps the bathroom door was locked and they didn't think anyone we see them. Not a horrible crime in my opinion.  

    Also, who said they did "nothing wrong"?  I didn't.    

    Parent

    You said (none / 0) (#21)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 03:43:30 PM EST
    the swimmers didn't really do anything terribly wrong.  



    Parent
    I know what I wrote (none / 0) (#22)
    by McBain on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 04:17:00 PM EST
    I was careful to chose my words.  It doesn't sound like you understand the difference between "Nothing wrong" and "didn't really do anything terribly wrong"  That would explain a lot.  

    Hint: the key words are "really" and "terribly"

    Who knows what we'll learn in the next few days about this story.  The more that comes out, the worse it looks for Brazil and the rush to judgement crowd.  


    Parent

    Parsing, are you? (none / 0) (#43)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 06:34:12 PM EST
    I do agree that the swimmer (none / 0) (#5)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 02:36:34 PM EST
    stuck with the bill should sue Ryan Lochte for indemnity.

    Lochte fled, leaving his teammates to twist in the wind.  His public comments brought much grief on his fellow swimmers.

    Parent

    sounds a bit like (none / 0) (#6)
    by CST on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 02:42:24 PM EST
    He accepted a plea deal with fines and community service, rather than waiting for them to take it to court.

    Now, maybe that is extortion in a way.  But then so is every plea deal made in the U.S.

    Parent

    Brazil is known for doing this. (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by fishcamp on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 05:24:43 PM EST
    Two friends were arrested in a beach bar for being American, went to jail, and had to buy their passports back to leave.  The police profile for money.  Rio used to be a fun place, but it looks different now.  They did do an excellent job with the Olympics, and that's good.  

    Parent
    The lesson here (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 05:39:58 PM EST
    ...is that white guys in Brazil should conduct themselves in the presence of Brazilian police like a Black man in the United States has to in the presence of American police.

    Parent
    Ha! No one gave them The Talk before they left? (none / 0) (#168)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:13:03 PM EST
    Actually (none / 0) (#177)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 03:48:43 AM EST
    They did get the talk

    Parent
    I watched the Lance Armstong documentary (none / 0) (#12)
    by McBain on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 03:05:28 PM EST
    Stop At Nothing last night.  I knew a fair amount about his fall from grace but this film had some great interviews with his former teammates and coworkers I hadn't seen before.

    For the most part, I didn't have a big problem with Lance taking PEDs to win races.  Most of the record breaking athletes in sports at that time were on something.  My problem was with how he tried to ruin the lives of anyone who suggested he might be cheating. Not the crime but the coverup.

    There were so many who had their heads in the sand during his Tour de France reign. People would say things like... he never failed a drug test and he just works harder than everyone else.  Part of the problem was he was a hero to many because of his fight against cancer.

    I might have to check out the drama The Program with Ben Foster as Armstrong.  He usually does good work. Has anyone seen it?

    You know of course (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 05:34:10 PM EST
    ...why drug use became illegal in the Tour?

    At the turn of the 19th Century the most popular spectator sport was six-day bicycle racing, which is exactly what it sounds like, two-man relay teams on a banked track riding 24 hours a day for six days (not the Sabbath!).  The trainers were candid, that they stuck to caffeine for the first four days, then strychnine on day five and cocaine on day six.

    Five time Tour winner Jacques Anquetil used plenty of drugs while racing in the '50s.

    All that came to an end when British cycling hero Tommy Simpson famously died on live TV in 1967 during the Tour de France.  The organizers considered riders dying during the race a downside of unlimited drug use.

    At that point drug testing became mandatory.  I have a friend who coached cycling in the European tours, and he told me a lot about how the dopers were ahead of the controls.  At a major American race  in the '80s, I opened the door to a team van, and found a prominent rider with a big needle in his leg.  

    Highly recommend The Secret Race, by Lance's teammate Tyler Hamilton.  This book goes into tremendous detail about Armstrong's duplicity and generally loathsome character.  

    As a lifetime cyclist and a one-time bicycle racer, I had thought the Armstrong story one of the greatest in sport.  It isn't.  An increased risk of testicular cancer, which nearly killed Lance BEFORE his career took off, is associated with the use of PEDs.  

    There are many good reasons to try to keep the use of PEDs down, although the arms race is ongoing between the drug users and the tests for them.

    Parent

    On a completely different subject (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 05:45:46 PM EST
    Have you ever seen the excellent animated movie THE TRIPLETS OF BELLVILLE?

    It's about many things but the plots revolves around a bicycle racer his and trainer/grandmother.

    It's Frence and subtitled but there is, like, 25 words if dialog in the whole thing.

    It's one of my favorite animated films.  It shames Disney.

    Parent

    I adore that film (none / 0) (#41)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 06:01:07 PM EST
    Fantastic music too.

    Parent
    The director (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 06:12:58 PM EST
    Sylvain Chomet is a genius.   All his films are great.  The Old Lady And The Pidgeons, The Illusionist.

    And next year he has a new one coming out The Thousand Miles that I'm really looking forward to.

    The Thousand Miles is an upcoming live-action/hand-drawn animated comedy-drama film directed by Sylvain Chomet. The film is based on various works of Federico Fellini including his "unpublished drawings and writings". It is set for a 2017 release date.



    Parent
    I bet you liked Umbrellas (none / 0) (#157)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 07:19:43 PM EST
    of Cherbourg too.

    Parent
    Doping not a "big problem?" (none / 0) (#14)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 03:16:25 PM EST
    Oy.

    Parent
    No, I haven't. (none / 0) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 03:42:21 PM EST
    But if you like Ben Foster, then I highly recommend David Mackenzie's "Hell or High Water," which co-stars Chris Pine and Jeff Bridges, and is currently in theatres.

    Parent
    Rachel (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 08:38:09 PM EST
    Is making Kelly Ann Conway really really sorry she agreed to appear on the Maddow show.  I'm on about a 10 min delay (so I can skip commercials). So she may have already punched her live.

    I would (none / 0) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 08:45:19 PM EST
    love to see that one.

    I'm glad that Hillary's team is really starting to punch the GOP.

    Parent

    Some of it is now up at MADDOW BLOG (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 09:10:06 PM EST
    I'm sure it will all be up soon.  This is POLITICS USA

    Rachel Maddow Just Wrecked Trump By Filleting His Campaign Manager With Smart Questions
    By Jason Easley on Wed, Aug 24th, 2016 at 9:46 pm
    Rachel Maddow's interview with Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway was a disaster for Trump as Maddow pushed for details on policy and Conway's performance proved that Trump's latest campaign reboot is a fraud.



    Parent
    I only saw the last couple of segments (none / 0) (#55)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 08:58:14 PM EST
    Did not seem that hard hitting to me. Conway got in all of her usual talking points. She is one of the best at that - deflecting every question into a attack on Clinton. 'oh, I didn't see that letter from Trump's doctor...let me tall you about Clinton's energy...maybe that's why no one likes or trusts her...'

    She said the line about no one liking or trusting Clinton at least 3 times in the 10 minutes I watched, and Maddow never questioned it.

    Parent

    Maddow (none / 0) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 09:03:52 PM EST
    "I sorry if you are disappointed we didn't kill each other"

    She asked a lot of very good questions.  IMO she did better than anyone I've seen making Conway smile uncomfortably.

    As you say, this is why Conway was hired.  She was never going to give real answers.

    Parent

    Kudos for (none / 0) (#83)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:54:06 AM EST
    watching, and appreciate the report.  I could not bear to do so, and turned to another channel.  My viewing experience when Miss Maddow interviews a wingnut Republican is to gush that one had the fortitude to come on her show.

     Not realizing, or not caring (in the interest of ratings or whatever) that the wingnut guest was using her show to their own ends.  And, with a Trumpette these days, that goal seems to be to put uneasy suburban white women at ease with Trump--see he really is not all that bad, after all--guess I can shamelessly vote for him.

    Parent

    My feelings exactly (none / 0) (#85)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:13:00 AM EST
    She may ask good questions, but lets them off the hook when they deflect and don't answer, then congratulates the for 'surviving'. I doubt she intimidates them at all.

    Parent
    Help! I've fallen into a Fellini film ... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 08:57:54 PM EST
    Donald is busy "softening" (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 09:41:34 PM EST
    Or "ensoftening" as some have called it.  I suspected this is not going to go over well with his hard core.  Some of the people I personally know support him for specifically this reason above all others.  

    Glen Beck, who was on with Lawerence to talk about this tonight, got what he described as the spookiest call he has ever gotten.  


    As such, Nate said he was not worried about Trump's apparent flip-flop on immigration because that is just what he has to say in order to get elected. Provided that Trump actually follows through on his pledge to build a wall along the Southern border, he said, then "he's not going to have people like me coming after him."

    But if Trump doesn't build the wall, Nate said, "he's in so much trouble, you don't even understand the backlash of us, the ones who are so frustrated and angry and tired of all the political stuff. We're going to come after him personally. You know what I mean? We're going to get him."

    Beck said that he didn't know quite what Nate meant and asked if he was talking about simply impeaching President Trump or perhaps something more violent.

    "[Trump] has condoned violence in that past, hasn't he?" Nate said. "He's appealing to people who are very frustrated and angry. Their frustration and anger can only be subsided if he makes his promises true. And he has a lot on his shoulders; maybe he himself doesn't even know how much. But if he doesn't come true for us, he's going to have bigger problems, bigger problems than what you know."

    RIGHT WING WATCH

    jeebus (none / 0) (#69)
    by pitachips on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:55:28 AM EST
    Only thing that makes me suspicious is that Glenn Beck seems the type of person pathetic enough to stage something like this. And I'm not sure a Trump voter would understand how to use "condone" in a sentence :)

    Reap what you sow...

    Parent

    Spookiest call..I'll bet. (none / 0) (#76)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 07:13:34 AM EST
    Beck has probably been getting two of three of those a day for the last ten years.

    And that's not including the ones from his fans in which the caller rants about actual "spooks".

    Parent

    Not Surprising (none / 0) (#65)
    by CoralGables on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 10:33:53 PM EST
    CHICAGO (Aug. 24, 2016) - U.S. Soccer has suspended goalkeeper Hope Solo from the U.S. Women's National Team for six months for conduct that is counter to the organization's principles.

    Hope Solo: The "other" embarrassment to the USA Olympic team.

    Thank goodness for Simone Biles, Abbey D'Agostino, and Meb Keflezighi.

    that that entails. I hope she's able to find some personal peace.

    Parent
    The amazing collection of historic (none / 0) (#67)
    by desertswine on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:24:15 AM EST
    baseball photographs, the Conlon Collection, is up for auction.  More than 7,000 negatives and glass plates through the years 1904 to 1942, including what may be the most iconic baseball photograph of all time, Ty Cobb stealing third base in 1910.  If only I had a spare million bucks or so.

    Great photo (none / 0) (#70)
    by McBain on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 01:30:33 AM EST
    Wouldn't mind having that collection as well.  I sometimes play in a league that uses the uniforms, rules and equipment of 1886 (even before Cobb played).  I prefer vintage baseball (dead ball era) to modern baseball.  

    Parent
    I remember listening to an old (none / 0) (#73)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:52:40 AM EST
    radio interview with Cobb and was immediately struck by how much Cobb, who was always a vicious racist, sounded like an old black man from the South..

    The book The Glory of Their Times is an amazing book about the dead ball era that has quite a few of those photos in it. My favorite is one of Tris Speaker and Joe Wood sitting on the steps of their rooming house with all the neighborhood kids and the local organ grinder with the organ grinder's monkey on Speaker's lap..

    Parent

    Actually (none / 0) (#120)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 04:12:51 PM EST
    Recent historical endeavors on Cobb refute that nasty racist image he was labelled with, from 1 author

    Parent
    I remembered (none / 0) (#123)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 04:48:17 PM EST
    Reading this maybe a week ago. Found it interesting regarding Cobb

    http://tinyurl.com/z3kzy5a

    Parent

    One author.. (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 05:40:36 PM EST
    Actually at least two authors, and bolstered by a host of anecdotes, some from  former teammates, newspaper accounts, and court reports. Where there's smoke, there's (at least some) fire..

    Though there does seem to be a revision of the Cobb legend underway that in some cases borders on hagiography and reminds me of the way Southerners to this day feel compelled to burnish the legends of Lee and Nathan Bedford Forrest..

    Cobb may have been more a "man of his times" than the vicious racist he's been made out to be, but a huge part the problem is that he could be such a mean, spiteful sob to begin with. His teamate Davey Jones said "I was his best friend on the team, and he didn't even like me that much." So maybe the altercations Cobb was involved in with blacks would've occurred regardless of what color the other person was. Cobb apparently could be that volatile.

    And finally, we should allow for the possibility of change and mellowing with time that can occur for people like Cobb as it can for anyone else.


    Parent

    The legend (none / 0) (#133)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 05:44:56 PM EST
    here in GA is that Cobb was a mean SOB. Basically he was a drunk share cropper who had a talent for baseball.

    Parent
    He was gifted athlete and a smart guy (none / 0) (#136)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:05:18 PM EST
    whose father was, I believe, a professor and a state senator. On the other hand, he was a very combative, classic "unreconstructed" type who was probably tormented and traumatized most of his life by the accidental (some say intentional) killing of his father by his mother.

    Parent
    Wahoo Sam Crawford (none / 0) (#144)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:18:10 PM EST
    Cobb's outfield mate, was an interesting guy. In retirement, he lived in a cabin in the hinterlands somewhere in California without a phone or tv and spent most of his time reading Balzac. When he as voted into the Hall of Fame it took quite awhile to hunt him down and when he was told he said he didn't even know he was eligable or had been nominated.

    Parent
    Hmm, is the 3rd Base Photo Reversed? (none / 0) (#91)
    by RickyJim on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 11:24:35 AM EST
    If Cobb was stealing 3rd wouldn't the photograph been taken from the the outfield?  Did they have telephoto lense in 1910?  I think it might be mirror imaged.

    Parent
    In 1910, photographers were allowed... (none / 0) (#115)
    by desertswine on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 03:27:11 PM EST
    on the sidelines, in foul territory.

    Here's how Conlon described the moment in Sporting News in 1937:

    The strange thing about the picture is that I did not know I had snapped it. I was off third, chatting with Jimmy Austin ... Cobb was on second with one out, and the hitter was trying to bunt him to third. Austin moved in for the sacrifice. As Jimmy stood there, Cobb started. The fans shouted. Jimmy turned, backed into the base, and was greeted by a strom of dirt, spikes, shoes uniforms -- and Ty Cobb. My first thought was that my friend, Austin, had been injured. When Cobb stole, he stole . Spikes flew and he did not worry about where. I saw Cobb's clenched teeth, his determined look. ... But in a moment I realized he wasn't hurt, and I was relieved because Jimmy and I were very close friends. Then I began to wonder if by any chance I had snapped the play. I couldn't remember that I had, but I decided to play safe and change plates anyway. I went home kicking myself. I said, 'Now there's a great picture and you mised it.' I took out my plates and developed them. There was Cobb stealing third. In my excitement, I had snapped it, by instinct.



    Parent
    Is Cobb's Position in the Photo Unusual? (none / 0) (#125)
    by RickyJim on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 05:01:59 PM EST
    It seems that, based on where you say the photo was taken, Cobb pivoted 90 degrees clockwise around third base as he was sliding in to it.  Is that standard for that play?

    Parent
    Sorry, Counterclockwise (none / 0) (#135)
    by RickyJim on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 05:55:16 PM EST
    It looks like a perfectly normal (none / 0) (#137)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:07:09 PM EST
    old time photo of Cobb sliding into 3rd.

    Parent
    Yeah, to me too.... (none / 0) (#141)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:14:44 PM EST
    Taken from near the coach's area of third.

    Parent
    Looks good to me... (none / 0) (#163)
    by desertswine on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 08:25:57 PM EST
    You can follow the infield dirt to second base in the left of the photol

    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#77)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 07:47:39 AM EST
    I seriously (none / 0) (#78)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 08:05:58 AM EST
    wonder how long Fox News is going to be around if they don't do some serious retooling which appears not to be happening. They're kind of like the GOP. If they move forward they lose what they have.

    Parent
    Not surprising at all.. (none / 0) (#90)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 11:15:56 AM EST
    when you consider that they used to have Hank Williams Jr on commenting on the War on Terror..

    ..Back in the days when Fox was surreally lame and not simply lame.

    Parent

    ROTFLMAO (none / 0) (#81)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:12:47 AM EST
    I just found out that Kellyanne Conway was the one going around in 2012 defending Todd Akin's legitimate rape comment. What a wacko.

    Conway employment rule: (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:56:50 AM EST
    You pay it, I'll say it.

    Parent
    She is most vile (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:22:25 AM EST
    I was amazed at the love fest she was given when Trump chose her.  Particulaly when it was perfectly clear she was chosen because no self respecting operative would do it.

    Regarding your comment above.  Yeah, I guess.
    Stilli give Rachel credit for at least trying to desegregate the news.  I believe she does.  I believe she thinks it's important and I agree.   And I believe she knows she will not succeed if she rips into the few right wing guests she can convince to come on.

    Also, watch it.  She did not "let her off".  She just didn't.  She asked some questions over and over and over.  And over.  And then laughed in her face at the answers.  It was a great interview.  As Rachel said at the end if you expected her to grab her by the throat, sorry.

    Watch it.

    Parent

    TALKING POINTS MEMO (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:27:38 AM EST
    My take on the Maddow (none / 0) (#94)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:14:11 PM EST
    interview is that it will be appreciated bigly by Trump.  It was anything but "searing."  The words eager, or maybe even, fawning, come to mind--"first woman to run a presidential campaign."  Miss Conway grabbed 45 minutes of prime free media visibility to showcase and legitimize Trump so as to call home white suburban Republican women.

    Rachael Maddow did ask "tough" questions, such as defending, explaining or clarifying Trump's policies and positions du jour. All of which might have been newsworthy during the primary, but now, are just a banal sorting through of the lies. But, Miss Conway, as with all Trumpettes, has no shame and is proficient in obfuscating and bobbing about until she could weave in a Hillary criticism (e.g., Mrs. Clinton has low favorability ratings. No lower than Trump's, but that went unacknowledged by Miss Maddow--although, in fairness, would be next to impossible to address every such utterance.)

    I would say it was a win/win. Miss Conway got exactly what she wanted/Miss Maddow probably cinched a interview with Trump.  Losers: the rest.

    Parent

    Why on earth (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:27:06 PM EST
    Would an interview with Trump be a loser for the rest of us.

    I don't thnk you watched the interview.

    Parent

    I did watch the TPM (none / 0) (#102)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:48:58 PM EST
    link you provided.  An interview with Trump would not necessarily be a loser for the rest of us, but (in the context of my comment) an interview of this nature by Rachael Maddow. This, of course, as stated, was "my take" on the interview.

     Note: thank you for the correction below as to my reporting of the "first" being the first Republican woman....  That comment came in the first part of the interview and my memory must have taken a slow turn along with Conway's battleship metaphor near the end.

    Parent

    Conway is not the first woman (none / 0) (#96)
    by caseyOR on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:28:48 PM EST
    to run a presidential campaign. For better or worse, the Dukakis campaign was helmed by Susan Ostrich, and current interim chair of the DNC, Donna Brazile, was Al Gore's campaign manager.

    I do not watch Maddow, no cable, so I ask you, Dan, did Maddow really get that political history fact wrong? Did she credit Conway as the first?

    Parent

    She said (none / 0) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:31:22 PM EST
    She was the first woman to run a republican campaign for president

    Parent
    Ah, thanks, Capt. (none / 0) (#100)
    by caseyOR on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:39:16 PM EST
    I believe Conway is the first woman to run Republican presidential campaign.

    Parent
    This is not just MY opinion (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:43:48 PM EST
    ADVOCATE

    LINK

    Washingtn post

    LINK

    Parent

    Susan Estrich, not Ostrich. (none / 0) (#99)
    by caseyOR on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:37:27 PM EST
    I still hate autocorrect.

    Parent
    To be fair, it's sometimes best when ... (none / 0) (#104)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    ... journalists don't push back openly on outrageous statements from their interview subjects, but instead encourage them to leave it all out there on the field of play, in full view for everyone to see.

    Due to the 6-hour time difference between Hawaii and the east coast, I'm a sporadic viewer of "The Rachel Maddow Show" at best. That said, I think that for the most part, Maddow's audience tends to be thoughtful, intelligent and well-informed. They don't necessarily need the host to state the obvious at any given moment, in order to figure it out.

    And for her part, rather than openly confront Kellyanne Conway last night, Maddow instead encouraged her to be candid. Conway obliged, and really didn't need Maddow's assistance to look like both the GOP equivalent of Baghdad Bob, and the hired shill that she is. She very easily managed to convey those rather dubious qualities all on her own.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    If not to challenge them, why give them (none / 0) (#106)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 01:22:49 PM EST
    the air time? If the reporter is just going to let them get out their talking points, let them be the hired shills they are on someone else's airwaves.

    Honestly, I don't watch CNN or Fox, and yet I get so much GOP propaganda on MSNBC I feel like I watch Fox.

    Parent

    ... by what you see and hear. But then, you appear to have successfully figured out the nature of propaganda, so why should you then feel threatened by it?

    Last night, I found myself laughing out loud at Conway's absurdity at several points. It's highly unlikely that she changed anyone's minds about Trump with that performance.

    Propaganda is effective only when it is directed toward and reaches its intended audiences, which are already primed to hear it. Rachel Maddow's audience isn't one of them. To everyone else, it's nothing more than a lot of nonsensical noise.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I hardly ever do watch it (none / 0) (#109)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 01:49:51 PM EST
    But as the election gets close, I do like to stay somewhat informed! I'm not threatened, just deeply annoyed.

    Small doses when they have GOP guest on. I grabbed the remote quick when I heard Glenn Beck was going to be on.

    Parent

    Yes, it's sometimes very annoying. (none / 0) (#151)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:35:09 PM EST
    I've been much less a viewer of MSNBC ever since they drove off the brilliant (if admittedly taciturn and difficult) Keith Olbermann. Currently, Mark Halperin and Chuck Todd that network's on-air personalities whom I probably detest the most.

    Every time I see him in action, the perpetually obtuse Halperin always manages to leave me wondering how such someone so obviously clueless and overly credulous could ever rise to become a managing editor at Bloomberg News. The guy is so shallow and so predictable in his commentary and analysis that even Salon.com -- friggin' Salon, fer Chrissakes! -- once felt compelled to rank him No. 1 on its 2011 Hack List as "the world's laziest dispenser of conventional wisdom."

    For his part, the smarmy and ingratiating Todd tends to reduce everything he touches to a series of false equivalences, glittering generalities and inappropriate comparisons, all for the sake of promoting the horse race. That's hardly surprising, since the one-time political science major and college dropout has never shown much if any patience for in-depth policy analysis and discussion. But it's disappointing that someone like him, whose work product can at best be characterized as superficial, could rise to become the political director at NBC News.

    Right now, I consider Rachel Maddow to be MSNBC's best on-air personality, and I really appreciate that she takes her job seriously, does her homework and refuses to pander to her audience's lowest common denominator. I think she would've made a great host for Meet the Press and could've elevated that show's game, had NBC only offered it to her rather than Chuck Todd.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Tim Russert was Chuck Todd's mentor. (none / 0) (#153)
    by caseyOR on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:44:41 PM EST
    That, to me, explains so much.

    Parent
    Yes, it does. (none / 0) (#162)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 08:17:00 PM EST
    I still think of the late Tim Russert as the media's penultimate a$$-kisser to the rich and powerful. And in turn the rich and powerful loved him and protected him, because he was so willing to subordinate himself to their desires, to say nothing of his personal dignity whenever the occasion so warranted.

    Russert wasn't as much a journalist as he was an ingratiating talk show host, a la Billy Crystal's Fernando. Personally, I often found him to be unwatchable, because his modus operandi was so painfully obvious. He didn't walk the walk, but man, could he ever crawl the crawl! Guys like him are a dime a dozen in the world of politics.

    ;-D

    Parent

    I find myself being in the (none / 0) (#110)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 02:11:12 PM EST
    unusual position of differing with both your and the Captain's assessment of matters. And, ordinarily, this would cause me to pause and re-think.  However, such a pause to re-think in the case of the Maddow interview would necessitate another look at the TPM link; this I find to be more than I can bear, so I will just accept having, apparently, an out-of-step opinion.

    Parent
    So forget TPM (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 03:47:30 PM EST
    That's ok - I could be mis-remembering it (none / 0) (#140)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:12:19 PM EST
    and I did not see the whole thing...and am NOT going to watch Kellyanne in action again. I am prepared to concede to those more knowledgeable!

    Parent
    Ha (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 06:15:55 PM EST
    Helpful hint that I often use.  FF through her "answers"


    Parent
    Problem is I have seen her for so many (none / 0) (#170)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:17:56 PM EST
    years on so many different shows...I can hear her voice in my sleep. I remember when she was so new and fresh I could not keep her straight from some of the other GOP blondes. When she was Kellyanne Fitzpatrick.  Not knocking blondes, but there was a year in the 90's when they all seemed to hit the scene at the same time.

    She stood out in her unshakeability...and in the way she says Clin-ton. Nails on chalkboard. She was destined for this career...uh, pinnacle? Nadir? who knows?

    Parent

    Tonight on Maddow (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:23:21 PM EST
    She did the opening segment on an interesting part of this I was completely unaware of.  

    The fact that a SuperPac megadoner named Robert Mercer financed both the SuperPac she(Conway) ran for Ted Cruz.  And those same man is the primary money man behind Breitbart.   So the seemingly unlikely team of Conway and Bannon suddenly make all kinds of creepy sense.

    Parent

    Interesting....guess that Cruz gig did not work (none / 0) (#172)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:42:45 PM EST
    out so well. Good thing she has no principles and could hop right over to the Trumpwagon.

    Parent
    Just saw the video of Trump doing (none / 0) (#173)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:45:01 PM EST
    his Frank Luntz impression at his event last night. OMG, hysterical. He is not even saying it is an impression, but he nails it, dead on. I'll give him credit for absorbing whatever persona he needs in the moment.

    Parent
    Government (none / 0) (#174)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:47:21 PM EST
    By applause meter

    Parent
    I think (none / 0) (#89)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:44:32 AM EST
    even a lot of Republicans realize how vile she is therefore she got jobs with Cruz universally detested before hanging on with Trump.

    This election could be an opportunity for the GOP to dump all their dead weight like Conway. I guess we'll see if they actually do it.

    Parent

    Another perfect surrogate for Trump (none / 0) (#82)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:33:19 AM EST
    for all (none / 0) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:02:34 PM EST
    our Trump trolls :Here's what you are supporting

    Whether you do it outright or do it passive aggressively this is what you embrace.

    Speaking of hurricanes... (none / 0) (#93)
    by fishcamp on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 12:10:08 PM EST
    The Miami news and weather channels have gone to full scare mode over this rain storm they've named Hermine, I think it is.  Weather seems to have newer and scarier graphics this year.  Lots of spinning red blobs on every channel, with the weather girls one step from complete hysteria.  It will get windy and rainy, but nothing more, I hope.  My cats don't like hurricanes.

    The local surfers are happy (none / 0) (#108)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 01:46:39 PM EST
    Looks like it could be similar to kite flying weather in Lincoln City Oregon.

    Parent
    My parents lived in (none / 0) (#181)
    by fishcamp on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:12:18 AM EST
    Lincoln City, Oregon for about 10 years.  Yes they fly kites there all the time, nearby the 'D River', the shortest river in the USA.

    Parent
    LC is where i was taught (none / 0) (#183)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:52:09 AM EST
    to never turn your back on the ocean when walking the beach. (sound advice)

    Parent
    I'm planning a road trip (none / 0) (#184)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:12:43 AM EST
    To Oregon and Washington in the early spring.  Keep the ideas coming please.

    Parent
    Howdy, there are golf courses (none / 0) (#186)
    by fishcamp on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:31:26 PM EST
    along the Oregon  coast where you can only play certain holes during low tide.

    Parent
    If you time a HWY 101 drive (none / 0) (#188)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 01:11:00 PM EST
    perfectly (which means luck) you can see the most magnificent spouting horns go above and over the Depoe Bay bridge. It's the bridge the patients went under on the fishing trip in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

    Parent
    Believe it or not (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 01:15:41 PM EST
    You made me gewoogle (none / 0) (#193)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 03:46:26 PM EST
    That does indeed look extremely cool.

    Parent
    Howdy, when you start to (none / 0) (#192)
    by caseyOR on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 02:47:59 PM EST
    plan the itinerary for this road trip shoot me an email. Depending on what route you take to Oregon, so where you cross the state line, there are different routes through the state that give you the best look at Oregon.

    Parent
    Or when you are surfcasting (none / 0) (#197)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:42:22 PM EST
    A Northern East coast beach in October , November

    Parent
    The California Supreme Court (none / 0) (#116)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 03:44:33 PM EST
    declined to hear the case of Vergara v CA, and, therefore, let stand a state appeals court ruling that preserved an array of teacher employment rights. The ruling is considered a win for teacher's unions.

     In 2014, student plaintiffs, supported by Students Matter, a group funded by Silicon Valley entrepreneur, David Welch, challenged tenure and other traditional job protections. The trial judge found the state rules to be unconstitutional. AP, at the time, saw a landmark decision that would influence the gathering debate across the country.

    Tenure was tagged by the plaintiffs as contributing to poor education, especially the disadvantaged, and, the tenure procedure was made too early and it was too difficult to remove teachers if a mistake was made.

     The state appellate court reversed the trial court decision in 2016.

      The idea of tenure was not equivalent to life-long employment, but to recognition of due process, if fired for any of a number of specified reasons. Documented reasons are needed for firing and fault, if any, lay at the feet of administrators who do not properly document problems.

    The suit was seen by teachers as having more to do with destroying unions than providing good education. Tenure was being blamed and students were being misinformed in support of anti-union, pro-charter, school privatization interest.

    In another favorable ruling for unions, the NLRB, allowed graduate students who work as teaching and research assistants at private universities (public institutions are addressed by the states) to vote on whether to unionize, and if they do, for the students and the universities to bargain in good faith.

     This ruling is in response to a petition by graduate students at Columbia University that found graduate assistants to be employees if they are paid to do jobs that are overseen by the University, even if they have other relationships with the University. This reverses a previous ruling that found graduate assistants to be primarily students not employees.

    Speaking as a former graduate assistant ... (none / 0) (#155)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 07:03:28 PM EST
    ... at the University of Hawaii who proctored mandatory undergraduate seminars for students enrolled in World Civilizations and U.S. History classes, I had to grade papers, lead discussions, prepare lectures and do everything expected of an instructor. The only difference is that I was pursuing my own graduate degree and didn't already possess one.

    As it was, UH was much more enlightened in its treatment of graduate assistants than was my own undergraduate alma mater, the University of Washington, where GAs appeared to be the equivalent of indentured servants. When you took entry-level language classes, they were actually taught by GAs and not professors, and yet their pay was abysmal.

    In UW's science departments, one stark deficiency in GAs, who were mostly from Asia, was their ability to speak English at an adequate level. Since I dual-majored in biology and history, I had to take labs which were affiliated with course lecture sections. In one physics lab, the GA's English was so bad as to be practically unintelligible; it took me a week before I figured out that "wherockty" was actually "velocity."

    GA's are associate faculty in all but title. They should be treated as such.

    Parent

    well, well, well (none / 0) (#158)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 07:20:11 PM EST
    Jennifer Rubin says it is time for the GOP to fish or cut bait

    She's looking directly at people like Little Marco.

    Wow (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 07:43:08 PM EST
    That was almost as stunning as the speech itself.

    Parent
    I know. (none / 0) (#167)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:06:54 PM EST
    I might just fall over in my chair!

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    It's absolutely dead on tho (none / 0) (#169)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:13:28 PM EST
    And you will never know how much I hate saying that about Ms Rubin.

    This is the mother of all wedge issues.  She wrapped the fringe around his neck and locked it there.   I would expect this is the opening salvo that will take aim at every republican in the country.  Pick a side.

    Every republican in the country who has not denounced Trump is going to be forced to talk about this every day until November.

     

    Parent