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Tuesday Afternoon Open thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 02:58:07 PM EST
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Open Thread.

Bill Clinton tonight in the 10 o'clock hour. Also Meryl Streep and Alicia Keys.

At 8 Mothers of the Movement.

< My Day In Philly at the DNC | Tuesday Night DNC: Clinton Time >

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    Tuesday Afternoon Open thread | 161 comments (161 topical)

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    Roll call set to begin (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 03:41:49 PM EST
    Any minute (probably 5 pm).

    History is about to be made.

    Bernie smiles!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 04:08:57 PM EST


    Parent
    Last night will be tough to beat (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 03:56:09 PM EST
    But if the Big Dog sticks to highlighting Hillary and stays away from attacking Trump it could be a very big night again.

    Yes, hope President (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 04:20:54 PM EST
    Clinton presents a positive, good morning in America type speech, and focuses on Hillary, her long-term efforts doing as much as she could for as many as she could.

    Trump should be discussed by contrast.  An indirect contrast with Trump's morticious, midnight in America, and his campaign of nostalgia and a last stand for the ways things were thought to be, or were for a few.

    Parent

    "moriticious" (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 04:49:02 PM EST
    Dark and dreary like.

    Parent
    am hoping (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by athyrio on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 06:58:57 PM EST
    that the BIG DOG will take this night to the heights for his beloved Hillary and sock it to the country by pointing out how strong and honest she truly is....

    Parent
    That was actually (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 05:57:19 PM EST
    Sort of fun that they managed to make that whole boring role call thing interesting.

    Good for Bernie.  History is officially made.

    I've never watched a Roll Call before. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by vml68 on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 06:05:03 PM EST
    Is it always like this?
    I admit to getting a little teary eyed when Bernie's brother cast his vote for Bernie and also when Hillary's friend did the same for her.

    Parent
    Yes. Always a free ad for each state. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 06:22:02 PM EST


    Parent
    Why was Clinton not in the arena to see (none / 0) (#15)
    by vml68 on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 06:50:35 PM EST
    the moment she became the official nominee?
    Is that convention?

    Parent
    Yes, it is the custom of both the Democratic (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 06:56:37 PM EST
    Party and the Republican Party that the nominee does not appear at the convention until the last night. Trump threw that out the window this year  for the GOP.

    I am not sure why this is the custom.Perhaps Donald can enlighten us.

    Parent

    Which Donald - Trump or me? (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 08:05:27 PM EST
    ;-D

    Okay, let me try. Up until the 1950s, most party presidential nominations were often in doubt right up until the moment of the roll call, and there was always a lot of back-of-the-house horse trading involved amongst the campaigns, in efforts to secure the necessary number of delegates to gain that coveted nomination for their candidate.

    No doubt, most presidential candidates themselves considered it undignified that they would be seen wheeling and dealing on their own behalf on the convention floor, so that dirty work was left to campaign managers and operatives, who had no such compulsions about political decorum.

    In fact, until Gov. Franklin Roosevelt broke precedent and flew to Chicago on the final night of the Democratic Convention in 1932 to accept the party's nomination and address the delegates in person, it had generally been the custom for nominees to not appear at their respective party conventions at all. Instead, they'd graciously accept the nomination by proxy, sending a written message to the convention which was then read to the delegates from the podium by the nominee's designated representative.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Roll call votes used to be quite contentious. (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 07:46:54 PM EST
    At the 1880 Republican national convention in Chicago, it took 35 separate roll call ballots before exasperated GOP delegates finally turned to progressive U.S. Rep. James Garfield of Ohio on the 36th, after they had repeatedly deadlocked on the contest between Ohio Sen. John Sherman and former President Ulysses Grant.

    Congressman Garfield was effectively drafted even though he had always been squarely in Sherman's camp, after giving what many historians regard as one of greatest convention floor speeches in U.S. political history in support of his fellow Ohioan. Sherman himself was moved to offer up Garfield's name in his stead, as a means to finally deny the nomination to his detested rival Grant once and for all.

    Garfield went on to win the presidency the following November and took office on March 4, 1881, only to be shot in the back by deranged office seeker Charles Guiteau at a Washington railway station 16 weeks later. After 11 weeks of physical struggle, complicated by his doctor's ignorance of new sterilization protocols, he finally succumbed to a massive sepsis infection on September 19, 1881.

    "James Garfield" is the answer to the trivia question, "Who is the only sitting member of the U.S. House of Representatives to have ever been elected president?"

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Glad the DNC twisted itself into knots (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by midcenturymod on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 06:33:10 PM EST
    to satisfy Bernie so that he could not campaign for Hillary or anything else after the convention. If I never see another Bernie tee or Hillary for prison tee again it will be too soon. Wonder how much rat f@cking the Repubs can do once the primaries are open, etc.?

    I hope we are wrong (none / 0) (#22)
    by JanaM on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 08:26:46 PM EST
    but it's what I expected. He'll do enough to make himself look good especially on TV.

    Parent
    disappointed to hear (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by athyrio on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 06:33:50 PM EST
    that Bernie isn't going to fundraise or give up his email list to Hillary campaign for the general...that's just sour grapes IMO...sorry but he really is still sitting on a fence...heard this on MSNBC

    On the other hand (none / 0) (#14)
    by MKS on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 06:43:16 PM EST
    the Bernie supporters are no longer booing at the convention.

    Parent
    Hillary vs Bernie (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by athyrio on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 06:54:59 PM EST
    TRUE...just not feeling the bern at this point at all and kinda sad that they took a moment away from Hillary as she so graciously gave to Obama in 2008...why do they always pile up on the woman Hillary....if I were her I would be collapsed in the corner at this point....I so admire her for her thick skin and courage...how much can a person take of these constant lies...and Bernie didn't help it either during his campaign...he got a lot of votes by piling oh her with more lies. Oh well....she is the nominee and god willing will be the prez....

    Parent
    Fewer boos . . . (none / 0) (#21)
    by JanaM on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 08:24:54 PM EST
    They may be exercising better pass control.

    Parent
    Still booing, some of the time. (none / 0) (#128)
    by sallywally on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 11:39:08 PM EST


    Parent
    Imo (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 08:28:54 PM EST
    His list probably isn't worth much to Hillary.  His supporters that wabt to donate easily can.

    Parent
    What in the world possessed David Axelrod ... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 08:37:27 PM EST
    ... to post this obscenely tone-deaf tweet?

    "Mothers of Movement was incredibly moving, but it would have been powerful to include widows of fallen police officers."

    Excuse me, but these mothers are not political props. Why TF would Axelrod insist that our public acknowledgement of their pain, courage and sacrifice be predicated upon the approval and / or inclusion of law enforcement? Didn't we just spend the better part of two weeks honoring police officers for what they do, while mourning the fallen in the aftermath of the Dallas and Baton Rouge attacks?

    Shame on him. What a fckn jerk.

    He's Possessed by Wanting Clinton to Win (none / 0) (#25)
    by RickyJim on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 09:07:16 PM EST
    Clinton is trailing Trump 58% to 30% with white voters who didn't go to college.
    That demographic was about 50% of the 2012 voters.  I think it highly likely that Axelrod's suggestion would have resonated better with them than what actually was done.

    Parent
    You know, sometimes we're called upon ... (none / 0) (#29)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 10:53:50 PM EST
    ... to stand resolutely on principle and actually do the right thing, rather than succumb to the tempting siren call that's offered by the political expediency of the immediate moment.

    And that particular moment tonight belonged to those mothers, not to David Axelrod and other overpriced consultants. If he can't see that, if he's that obtuse and clueless, then CNN's paymaster really needs to shift the decimal point on the guy's next paycheck two places to the left.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    According to Roper's, in 2012 (none / 0) (#31)
    by ding7777 on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 11:00:50 PM EST
    Romney had 59% to Obama's 39% of the WHITE vote

    Parent
    White peole (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:36:06 PM EST
    ...are eternally grateful for our minority colleagues for saving us from our own selves and keeping the GOP out of the White House..

    39%?  I have never been so ashamed of being white.

    Parent

    im sorry (none / 0) (#123)
    by linea on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:14:11 PM EST
    other people voting their values is called democracy.

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#42)
    by JanaM on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:10:07 PM EST
    Ding, for providing that info.

    Parent
    Trump as war profiteer (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by MKS on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 09:12:20 PM EST
    Rep. Crowley of New York, said after 9/11 Trump was not there to help.  Instead he profited by poaching $150,000 in governmental assistance designed for small businesses.

    Ouch.  

    I'm trying really hard not to say anything (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by McBain on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 10:02:43 PM EST
    about Mothers of the Movement but it's not easy. At least some of them didn't really belong there.  

    You're obviously not trying hard enough. (5.00 / 5) (#30)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 10:55:27 PM EST
    :-(

    Parent
    McBain, I agree (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 11:36:36 PM EST
    and everyone knows which one didn't belong, just reading the list of names. No reason to call her out or mention her name.

    Parent
    Here is a transcript of what they said (5.00 / 6) (#43)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:14:20 PM EST
    I fail to see what is objectionable.

    Here is the meat of what Trayvon Martin's mother said:

    Hillary Clinton has the compassion and understanding to comfort a grieving mother. She has the courage to lead the fight for common-sense gun legislation. And she has a plan to repair the divide that so often exists between law enforcement and the communities they serve.

    If anyone else had said that, you would not even have thought it noteworthy.

    Parent

    There's also nothing objectionable (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:58:35 PM EST
    about raising a son who knows how to stand up for himself when he's threatened by a fat as* cop-wannabe with a loaded gun.

    Parent
    I think you are still misreading (3.00 / 2) (#74)
    by JanaM on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:10:00 PM EST
    the entire case.

    Though I think you are approaching it from a point of anger rather than objectively trying to find a workable solution, you make an excellent point that all parents should be teaching their children how to have safe interactions with others.

    Parent

    I'm not angry, I'm indignant (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 03:11:54 PM EST
    because it is so utterly beyond the imaginative capacities of a certain raised-on-tv whitebread bourgeois mentality to conceive that someone like TM could react to a loaded gun as a direct and immediate threat to his life and try to do anything anything in his power to neutralize that threat.

     

    Parent

    ExceptZ (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by RCBadger on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 03:31:46 PM EST
    that there is no evidence that he ever saw the gun before George Zimmerman shot him.  

    Parent
    No evidence that he didn't (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 03:39:02 PM EST
    other than the word of a man with a history of belligerent and violent behavior who likes to walk around at night with a loaded gun.

    Parent
    Speculation is not (none / 0) (#92)
    by JanaM on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 04:14:48 PM EST
    evidence.

    Parent
    You're speculating when you (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 04:42:21 PM EST
    take someone like Z at his word. Which you obviously have.

    And then of course one has to wonder why.

    Parent

    Most of what Zimmerman said was (4.50 / 2) (#95)
    by McBain on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 04:52:30 PM EST
    backed up with physical evidence and credible eye witness testimony.  He even passed two lie detector tests.  The only Zimmerman statement I'm not convinced of was his claim that Martin tried to take his gun.  

    Parent
    I don't know who Z is (none / 0) (#104)
    by JanaM on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 05:41:50 PM EST
    and I don't have to take "Z's" word for anything since I followed the trial and the evidence. I greatly appreciated how Jeralyn worked to keep this forum a speculation-free discussion.

    Not sure what you mean by "one has to wonder why."

    Parent

    I have a pretty good idea who he (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 06:11:40 PM EST
    is after watching him ignominiously attempting to wring every blessed penny out his three minutes of pathetic notoriety with his cheesy confederate flag paintings and auctioning off his famous gun..

    Parent
    Oh you meant (none / 0) (#112)
    by JanaM on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 06:27:21 PM EST
    Zimmerman. I thought you meant another poster.  He had enough independent corroboration for his version of the timeline of events for me to believe he was either the luckiest defendant in the history of defendants or his version of events was fairly accurate.  His other faults notwithstanding.

    Parent
    this is done! (none / 0) (#125)
    by linea on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:46:22 PM EST
    already presented to the jury. they heard all the evidence.

    your wild imagination has no standing.

    Parent

    The Evidence (none / 0) (#102)
    by RickyJim on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 05:25:11 PM EST
    Trayvon Martin had no injuries while Zimmerman was taking a beating during their struggle.  Yet Zimmerman didn't fire a shot until after getting injuries to his head, indicating that he didn't ahve his gun out early.  Witness put Zimmerman on the ground with Martin on top of him.  Somebody was screaming desperately for their life during the struggle.  If there is a 50 percent chance it was Zimmerman, there is definitely reasonable doubt as to whether he is guilty of murder or even manslaughter.

    Parent
    90+ % chance (none / 0) (#122)
    by McBain on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 09:45:21 PM EST


    Parent
    I've spent a lot time in areas (none / 0) (#148)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 03:51:56 PM EST
    where people carry guns. You don't take it "out" when you threaten people; you just speak the words and briefly lift your shirt up.

    Have another martini, pop an Ambien and go back to watching Murder She Wrote.


    Parent

    While that is certainly the situation (none / 0) (#152)
    by JanaM on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:44:07 PM EST
    in many cases it doesn't hold true for all. And in the Z case that's just pure speculation with no corroboration at all.

    I understand it may make you feel better to keep retrying the case but I'm not sure how conjuring up scenarios for either Trayvon or Zimmerman actually helps or hurts either.

    Parent

    Here's something with corroboration (none / 0) (#159)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 05:39:39 PM EST
    Z had and has a documented track record of violent, assaultive behavior, and after the case was over he tweeted "black slime doesn't matter" and posted a picture of TM's dead body.

    That's the kind of person you're going to the mat for. The one you want to make milk and cookies for.

    Angela Lansbury's calling..

    Parent

    IIRC Zimmerman had no prior (5.00 / 3) (#162)
    by JanaM on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 01:41:11 PM EST
    convictions for assault. There was a DV case which did not result in conviction and which had cross complaints - both he and his girlfriend accused each other. Those are always subject to wide interpretations as I've personally seen. If there were other priors perhaps you could remind me.

    If he is responsible for vile statements after his trial that is irrelevant to his trial. There was a rather extensive investigation by DOJ into whether there was any evidence of racism by Zimmerman in this event. DOJ found none.

    I am interested in fair trials and that the system administer justice. Which is exactly which drew me to this forum: Jeralyn's insistence that the discussion of the trial be fair and avoid biased conjecture. I long ago had to put personal opinions and kneejerk initial responses aside to try to do my part in the system. I realize that objectivity upsets some but so be it.

    Again your references elude me: Angela Lansbury? milk and cookies?

    Parent

    I'm curious how you and many other TLers (none / 0) (#161)
    by McBain on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 06:51:58 PM EST
    would handle what Zimmerman has gone through.....
    • Being falsely accused of a crime  
    • Having his words edited in the media to paint him in a bad light
    • Having someone try to shoot him

    Based on the numerous immature comments in here, I bet most would do even worse than Zimmerman.

    Parent
    My first reaction was similar to Jeralyn's (3.67 / 3) (#67)
    by JanaM on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:43:14 PM EST
    but honestly about more than one mother. Then I reexamined my initial thoughts after they spoke. I don't see anything wrong with what Ms. Fulton said. I think even the mothers of those who played a part in their own deaths can contribute to the discussion. It's a complicated issue and it will take brave and honest discussions to improve things.

    Both "sides" have to try to take an objective look at behaviors and attitudes that contribute to the way things are. I think Hillary's desire to bring people together to find solutions is highlighted with these mothers.

    Parent

    For me it has to do with giving a platform (none / 0) (#90)
    by McBain on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 03:44:21 PM EST
    to those who don't deserve it.  Basically, the wrong messengers for the message.

    Parent
    Who are you to say who deserves to (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 07:28:28 PM EST
    deliver the message? Ridiculous.

    Parent
    A voter (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by McBain on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 09:43:27 PM EST
    That's who I am.

    A better message and messenger would be the mother of a child caught in the crossfire of gang violence.  Or the mother of a victim of the mass incarceration problem we have.  

    Parent

    Then you should let your party ... (none / 0) (#136)
    by Yman on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 06:22:32 AM EST
    ... know about your opinion as to what they should do during their convention.

    Parent
    I understand what you feel (none / 0) (#91)
    by JanaM on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 04:04:08 PM EST
    but I was trying to look beyond that. I think Hillary is looking at the long picture and that bringing people together is healing and productive without judgment.

    Nelson Mandela was able to look beyond the past and move his country forward in the midst of circumstances that make the US issues pale in comparison. In so doing he saved his nation and maybe his continent.

    Parent

    Good thing it's not your messengers ... (none / 0) (#134)
    by Yman on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 06:21:10 AM EST
    ... or your platform.

    Parent
    I agree. Mothers of the Movement (none / 0) (#157)
    by ding7777 on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 05:24:42 PM EST
    was a presentation I chose not to watch because of SF.

    Parent
    Why are you trying (none / 0) (#28)
    by NycNate on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 10:10:02 PM EST
    not to say anything?  What is keeping you from saying what you have to say?  

    Parent
    Posted this on my FB page (5.00 / 7) (#33)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:50:07 AM EST
    ...and a lot of people liked it.

    Thanks to the GOP, Hillary Clinton accepts the nomination as the most thoroughly vetted candidate in American history. For over 20 years Republicans have been investigating every breath she took. No accusation was too ridiculous to investigate, so they investigated every one.

    And exonerated her every time. Although the Constitutional standard for criminal trials is "double jeopardy," one acquittal and you're done, the Benghazi Committee covered their asses by exonerating her EIGHT times, and spent millions to do it. She even allowed them to question her for eleven hours, under oath, and on live TV, a level of cooperation with political opponents that no Republican has the courage for. When it comes to reaching across the aisle, she has more than done so.

    Would Donald Trump take questions under oath from political opponents on live TV? I think we know the answer. The Donald is a coward who hates American values.

    If Hillary had a nickel for every time the GOP exonerated her, she would be able to buy Idaho. I would LOVE to see Hillary question Trey Gowdy under oath, but he is a coward, like every other GOP congresscritter.

    So thanks, GOP, you have nothing to complain about. Hillary has cooperated with you to an extent that none of you has the cojones to reciprocate. She has shown presidential levels of courage, poise and intelligence that we would be unaware of without your efforts.

    Trump sez: NO TAX RETURNS (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 09:39:16 AM EST
    Georgie Will sez:

    ITS BECAUSE THEY WOULD SHOW HIS TIES TO THE RUSSIANS

    Trump advisor Manafort,.. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by desertswine on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:53:00 AM EST
    has long and deep ties to pro-Russian politicians and oligarchs in the Ukraine.

    Parent
    During the Republican (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:59:10 AM EST
    primary debates, Trump on Putin: "I got to know him very well because we were both on 60 Minutes.  We were stablemates and we did very well that night."  Fiorina  took issue with that claim: she really met Putin---in China, no less.  And, her meeting was not in any stink'n Green Room.

    Maybe, Trump met his stablemate, as a part of a bare-chested horse-back ride. But, it was not a meeting during 60 Minutes, because these two stablemates were in different countries at the same time together. Nowadays, Trump understandably clarifies: says he never met him.

     So the question remains for the Conservative George Will and others, have you interacted with Putin as a part of your terrific business. And, what about your being buddies with Putin, and, pulling out of NATO, a wet dream of Putin's. As is the wont of Trump's favorite newspaper, inquiring electoral minds want to know.

    Parent

    A cartoon to go with this part of your (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by vml68 on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 11:30:56 AM EST
    comment.
    Trump met his stablemate, as a part of a bare-chested horse-back ride.

    Parent
    Republicans like Ryan and others (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:16:22 PM EST
    Are very uncomfortable with Donald inviting Russia into this campaign as he absolutely did this morning.   House republicans on various Committes are saying no no no, this is not right.

    He may have finally stepped in something that will stick to him.

    This is serious unprecedented scary stuff.

    One thing for sure, it will be an issue in this campaign.  And if Donald thinks it will help him I believe he has miscalculated.

    For those who don't know he said in a press conference he hoped Russia had Hillarys emails and encouraged them to release them if they do.

    As unbelievable as that sounds that's what he did.

    Parent

    Trump's running mate, Pence (none / 0) (#49)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:43:32 PM EST
    says: "If it is Russia, and they are interfering with our elections, I can assure you both parties and the US government will ensure there are serious consequences."   Sounds like there is a Dutch Uncle talk in Pence's future.

    Parent
    Yes! (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:47:30 PM EST
    Pence, Ryan, several others.  This is a big deal.  I will be amazed if someone, like Obama doesn't mention this tonight.

    Parent
    All of which, (none / 0) (#52)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:55:23 PM EST
    will just make Trump's followers feel terrific. After all, if its Russia v Clinton, the wingers will side with the Kremlin.  Unless, of course, the hacker is Edward Snowden, then, after release of documents,  it will renew the call for his traitorous a$$ to be thrown in jail and then executed.  The trick, then, will be to tie Hillary to Snowden, not the stablemates, Trump and Putin.

    Parent
    That (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:56:48 PM EST
    Actually made my head hurt

    Parent
    Impeachable offense (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by MKS on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:38:45 PM EST
    Trump is doing things that are probably not only illegal but also impeachable offenses.

    This is very  serious.  I hope the media stops covering it like professional wrestling.

    Parent

    Violation of federal criminal law (5.00 / 4) (#101)
    by Peter G on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 05:11:00 PM EST
    it would seem:  See 18 USC sections 2(a) (to counsel, induce or procure an offense makes one guilty of that offense) and 1030(a) (criminal unauthorized access to computer). Not that I would want to chant "Lock him up," at least not without a fair trial, or anything.

    Parent
    Peter, thanks (none / 0) (#107)
    by JanaM on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 05:52:55 PM EST
    for taking the time to look that up.

    Parent
    The Dutch Uncle (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:01:34 PM EST
    Talk needs to the with Terry fu@king McAuliffe.

    Lock this moron in a padded cell until November 9th.

    Parent

    oh FFS (none / 0) (#129)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:11:12 AM EST


    Parent
    All charges dropped for Freddie Gray officers (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by McBain on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:59:09 AM EST
    No one likes to admit they're wrong so Mosby said this...
    However, after much thought and prayer, it has become clear to me that -- without being able to work with an independent investigatory agency from the very start, without having a say in the election of whether our cases proceed in front of a judge or a jury, without communal oversight of policing in this community, without real, substantive reforms to the current criminal justice system -- we could try this case 100 times, and cases just like it, and we would still end up with the same result."

    Maybe she should have thought about that before bringing charges in the first place? I love the part about "without having a say in the election of whether our cases proceed in front of a judge or a jury".  As if having a judge deciding the cases was unfair to the prosecution.    

    Political games with the lives of others . . . (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by JanaM on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:17:29 PM EST
    That was perhaps the most unprofessional presser by a prosecutor I think I have witnessed in recent years. She blamed everyone and everything for losing these cases except herself, her own conduct or misconduct and her terrible judgment. The bad judge, the bad laws, the bad investigators, the bad cops, the bad system. Mosby's total lack of self awareness and, as I cautioned last year when we earlier discussed this case, her lack of appropriate experience and her seeming inability or unwillingness to remain objective has resulted in an inevitable conclusion to this matter.

    As Judge Williams said about just one aspect of one trial, "I'm not saying you did anything nefarious. I'm saying you don't understand what 'exculpatory' means."

    So either unethical or stupid behavior. Neither of which belongs in a prosecutor's office.

    And I will never forgive Marilyn Mosby for putting me in agreement with the likes of Donald Trump.

    Parent

    I bet you wish (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:23:56 PM EST
    You could give Mosby a 1.

    Parent
    Yes. Mosby gets a big fat ONE (4.00 / 4) (#59)
    by JanaM on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:18:24 PM EST
    You think she'd repeatedly whine about it like a butthurt baby and try to bully me into doing it her way or the highway? 😂

    Nah. Who would be so petty? 🙄

    Capt. Howdy, I remember you disagreed with me quite, shall we say, "vigorously" over my take on the Gray case when it first arose in discussion here in May 2015. But my instincts from 3 decades of experience told me how wrong the prosecutor was from day 1. Despite trying to remain open minded about it, I can't recall anything she or her office did along the way that changed my mind. Every step of the way indicated to me they were either incompetent or venal or a combo of both.

    Perhaps my kneejerk defense instincts are too ingrained but injustice is injustice no matter who the defendants are. Playing politics with them is unforgivable to me.

    Parent

    Yes, all defendants (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by MKS on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:44:25 PM EST
    are entitled to the presumption of innocence.

    Why that tends to work well (in the end) for police officers, but not necessarily others, is an open question.

    Parent

    you would think (none / 0) (#78)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:20:25 PM EST
    this principle shouldn't have to be stated so explicitly, much less repeated, on a legal blog hosted by a defense attorney:

    . . . injustice is injustice no matter who the defendants are.

    & most TL commenters do understand this principle as it applies to any defendant who is not a cop

    at TL, however, whenever the defendant is a cop, many commenters set this principle aside in favor of pseudo-antiracist preening

    so uplifting

    Parent

    How about explicitly stating (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 03:20:48 PM EST
    how you think Freddie Gray's back got broken.

    You must have some theory. Most people seem to.

    Parent

    Big problem was (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 04:15:01 PM EST
    The ME was originally ready to call his death an accident, not a homicide.

    The the prosecution failed to turn over this evidence, which makes it look like much more than just an accident.

    Parent

    "Was ready to " is certainly more (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 04:59:29 PM EST
    suggestive than "a (unbiased?) police investigator noted that at one point.."

    I don't see the words "was ready to" anywhere in that article, jb.

    Parent

    my theory, if i had one, (none / 0) (#131)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:31:22 AM EST
    would be as irrelevant & incomplete as yours, since all that matters is the facts

    the judge in the 3 bench trials, like the jury in the first trial, did not find sufficient evidence to establish the facts about what happened

    therefore, i do not know how Freddie Gray's back got broken, & neither do you

    if the case had been handled by a competent prosecutor, one who was not pushing a personal political agenda, then the facts might have come out

    but that's not what happened

    Parent

    Maybe now people will appreciate (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:26:21 PM EST
    the back-breaking work Baltimore city cops do day in and day out.


    Parent
    Careful, my friend (none / 0) (#62)
    by MKS on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:35:19 PM EST
    Many will not get what you are saying and will accept it face value.

    Pithy and cogent, though.

    Parent

    Those who don't get it (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:38:39 PM EST
    Are themselves part of the punchline.

    Parent
    link (none / 0) (#57)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:04:32 PM EST
    tk Mosby's press tantrum

    Parent
    She still doesn't get it (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by McBain on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:19:18 PM EST
    Her job isn't so "seek justice on behave of this young man", it's to seek justice for everyone.

    Her unprofessional conduct is astonishing.  

    Parent

    not anymore, unfortunately (none / 0) (#80)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:22:16 PM EST
    Her unprofessional conduct is astonishing.


    Parent
    I'm not sure what I was expecting (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by McBain on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:54:24 PM EST
    but it wasn't that.  Not an epic tantrum.  

    Parent
    I was just embarrassed watching (3.67 / 3) (#61)
    by JanaM on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:31:03 PM EST
    that display of disrespect and undisguised venom for everyone she thinks stood in her way. Including a respected judge. This does not help the community at all.

    As much as I disagreed with her and her approach and tactics from the get-go I can't help but be sad and disappointed. I am always heartened when I see young women in positions of power and I felt that with her. I kept trying to find some angle about her I could applaud. It just seems that her inexperience coupled with arrogance may have caused her to ignore her most experienced prosecutors and investigators. She didn't know what she was doing in May 2015 and in my opinion she still doesn't. How does insulting a judge help any future prosecutions? How does that help a community heal?

    Parent

    Considering the longterm results (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:38:49 PM EST
    of most prosecutions, they don't seem to have much or anything to do with healing communities either.

    Parent
    "All it takes... (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:44:46 PM EST
    to harden a man's heart is a system of justice."

    - Gregory David Roberts

    Parent

    she's an activist (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:07:55 PM EST
    at heart & by temperament, & that's fine - she clearly has passion & a certain charisma

    but no prosecutor has any business putting personal passion & political activism before the rule of law, the principle of equal protection under the law, & the presumption of innocence, which is precisely what Mosby did last year

    worse, she implicitly endorsed mob rule by indicting the 6 cops in order to quell the riots in Baltimore, & she said as much in her press conference announcing the charges

    this is not to say she can't be reelected in Baltimore, but if she's disbarred, watch for Marilyn Mosby to be offered a gig as a "legal analyst" on MSNBC, the Fox News of the left

    Parent

    If she endorsed mob rule (none / 0) (#81)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:52:53 PM EST
    she certainly didn't do it in a historical vacuum.

    This whole event has a very big chickens-coming-home-to-roost aspect to it. There have been multitudinous stories about Baltimore cops acting like their own answerable-to-no-one  "mob" that go back decades. Speaking of mob rule..

    So Freddie Gray became the broken back that broke the camel's back..

    And where's the "presumption of innocence" and "respect for the rule of law" in allowing pestilential conditions to fester in parts of a city so that innocent children growing up there enter adulthood with no concept of either respect or innocence?

    Parent

    IMO (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:37:15 PM EST
    She made some excellent points

    Parent
    Which ones? (4.00 / 4) (#72)
    by JanaM on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:05:03 PM EST
    On the chance you might be right I went back and watched her statement again and, as I first thought, Mosby made no excellent points. In fact, it's worse watching it the second time.

    She's flailing in the wind in front of a mural dedicated to Freddie Gray trying to score political points rather than explain calmly and rationally to the community why her prosecutions failed. Maybe she still doesn't get it - still doesn't understand the law.

    Parent

    I wish Jeralyn would comment on this (none / 0) (#79)
    by McBain on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:21:07 PM EST
    but I understand why she can't.  

    Parent
    BLOODLINE (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 11:59:43 AM EST
    I finished season 2

    Oh my god

    I hate them all.   The family is a plague.  I can't wait for season 3.  They say next year.

    Ruff (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:36:37 PM EST
    They all suck but the whacko cokehead brother is definitely the worst.

    I so hope he goes down for that.   That was so great because from the time he walked into his house I knew what was going to happen.  There was only one way that could end.  The question was how it would happen

    Which is great because the whole series was set up that way.  The first scenes were of how it ended.  The fun was getting there.  You were like, wait, this can't be it.  He's not wearing searsucker

    Parent

    Yeah, I relaly love the construction of the whole (none / 0) (#86)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 03:21:02 PM EST
    thing. Loved the scenes of the brother and sister watching the web cam video of their escape from the scene of the crime and freaking out.

    And what does Beau Bridges have in mind? gonna be good!

    Thought the kid that played Danny's son was so good. He really seemed like he could be Mendolsohn's son, with the mannerisms, etc.  His mother though...creepy with Leguizamo.

    Parent

    The mother and Leguizamo (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 05:46:59 PM EST
    Would in normal circumstances be the villains.  They are both great btw.  Leguizamo is always great.  I think he is under rated as an actor.

    But with this crowd you find yourself rooting for them.

    Sissy is so good in that role.  She is absolutely perfect.  With her nose job that's sort of gone bad.  Sometimes you just want to shake her.  It really is the parents.  It's all the parents.

    Parent

    How the hell (none / 0) (#99)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 05:05:23 PM EST
    Can you watch a show where you hate everyone?

    I have enough problems watching shows where many of those I really like get killed off. Seems to be a popular trend.....

    Parent

    The Trump spinners are out in force (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:12:51 PM EST
    Trying t walk this back.

    They understand this is BAD.

    And (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:17:03 PM EST
    They are appearing quite frantic and panicked

    Parent
    Ah (none / 0) (#100)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 05:10:32 PM EST
    Its a nothingburger, is that what it is called.

    He is poking fun, but the Clinton campaign is panicking right now, looking at the recent polls, and are throwing anything they can at The Donald.

    Those emails have already been deleted by Madame Sec, no one can hack them now.

    And if some one hacked them 4 years ago, that throws another problem at the Clinton e mail story.

    Besides , those 30 thousand emails are mostly about Chelseas wedding and Madame Sec  yoga routines.

    Parent

    Did the GATEWAY PUNDIT (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 05:34:41 PM EST
    Tell you that.

    Or was it DRUDGE?

    Parent

    Everyone knows that. Even TL readers. (none / 0) (#106)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 05:51:57 PM EST
    The Donald spoke about her 30,000 e mails. The ones she said were yoga routines and deleted. Although the FBI blew that up also.

    So how can The Donald ask anyone to hack Hillary and find those 30k e mails?

    The Donald is getting under the Clinton campaigns skin.

    Do not let that happen. Not with this guy. Actually am not quite sure how to attack him,
    Cruz buddied up to him until the end, Bush took a run at him, The little Cuban fella took a run,
    Quite frankly, I don't fully understand his appeal. Blowhards are usually not that appealing...until now
     

    Parent

    Don't speak for "everyone," Trevor. (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 08:18:12 PM EST
    Speak for yourself only.

    Parent
    You might want to read Peters links (none / 0) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 05:57:37 PM EST
    Before you spew your bullsh!t right wing talking points.

    Parent
    Lol (none / 0) (#110)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 06:07:17 PM EST
    Seems like The Donald is getting under your skin too.
    Those  emails have been deleted, 4 years ago. No one can hack them NOW!!!
    You cannot hack what is not there.

    Parent
    I know its hard for you (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 06:33:58 PM EST
    But try to set HILLARYS EMAILS aside.  Just for a second.
    Just try for me.  Ok?

    This is actually not really about Hillarys emails.  I know, I know, in your world EVERYTHING is, but its really not.

    It about a person running for president encouraging a foreign power to commit a cybercrime not just against an American citizen but an opponent.

    I know you are being fed a steady stream of nothing to see here by World Net Daily.  But you know what Trevor, there is something to see here.

    here is a pretty good write up on how people including many republicans are reacting.

    Now LOL and run along

    Parent

    And as for the BS (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 06:36:20 PM EST
    About how he was "just joking" try reading a little.   He was not joking.   He went on at some length with reporters about it in the news conference and has since doubled down.

    Yeah, I know. Lol

    Parent

    In the middle (none / 0) (#115)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 06:48:53 PM EST
    Of the Democrats convention, Hillary's crowning moment, you , and the entire Clinton campaign have taken the bait.
    All you are talking about is the eeevil Trump, asking Russia to hack e mails that have been deleted 4 years ago.
    The e mails are gone, Hillary has said there is nothing on them,
    So Trump trolls the media , and gets his expected reaction. All the talk is about him...again.
    And her e mails

    I must say, he is good at what he does.
    Just don't take the bait

    Parent

    Such a tragedy (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 06:54:17 PM EST
    If we all were only as insightful as you.

    We can actually do two things at once also.

    Parent

    You actually think (none / 0) (#132)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 05:39:58 AM EST
    People that are voting for Trump care about what he said about Russia and Hillarys e mails.  It was a throw away line, something he ad libbed at a press conference. The thought popped in his head and out it came.
    Yes, it is just another unpresdidential moment in a long list of unpresidential moments for The Donald over the past year.

    Madame Sec had best get a nice bump after this convention, all recent polling has The Donald still rising.

    Although it is still too early to panic, plenty of time for The Donald to maybe do something that might even stick to him.

    Although the fact that he is ahead at all is inducing some to panic, this was supposed to a wave election of biblical proportions.


    Parent

    bait, hook, sinker & the whole damn line (none / 0) (#147)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 03:04:31 PM EST
    just astounding

    but all things are possible, once Robby Mook can see RUSSIA!!! from the DNC's hard drive

    Parent

    genetic fallacy (none / 0) (#130)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:13:18 AM EST


    Parent
    I have no idea (none / 0) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:03:19 AM EST
    What that even means

    but you might want to read this

    Parent

    you could look it up (none / 0) (#139)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:09:56 AM EST
    if you can spare a moment from looking for <gasp> RUSSIANS!!! under your bed

    Parent
    If I cared I might (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:12:20 AM EST
    You might try reading.

    Parent
    Kevin Drum at Mother Jones ... (5.00 / 4) (#83)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:58:43 PM EST
    ... made an attempt to tie together all of Trump's pro-Putin stances, compiling "Donald Trump's Top Ten Giveaways to Vladimir Putin":
    • He wants to reduce America's commitment to NATO and reorient its activities to the Middle East. This is perhaps Vladmir Putin's greatest foreign policy desire.
    • Says America has no moral standing to complain about human and civil rights violations.
    • Welcomed Russia's incursion into Syria.
    • Considers Putin a great leader.
    • Would consider eliminating sanctions against Russia and recognizing their annexation of Crimea.
    • Wants to weaken American ties to its allies by insisting that he will walk away from them unless they pay us more for our military protection.
    • Never mentions Russia in his otherwise endless litany of countries that are taking advantage of us.
    • Opposes sending arms to Ukraine.
    • Is pro-Brexit.
    • Isn't sure he would defend the Baltics if Russia attacked them.

    He concludes:

    "As much as I loathe Putin, I'm not among those who now think Mitt Romney was right when he listed Russia as our #1 geopolitical threat. Conservative fearmongering on the subject leaves me cold. Nonetheless, this list is not a coincidence. There's something behind the scenes guiding it. But what?"

    Indeed. Is Donald Trump the Manchurian Candidate of our time? I'd have laughed out loud at that notion a few months ago as nothing more than crackpot theory.

    But the candidate's own recent behavior -- not to mention his campaign manager Paul Manafort's ties with former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, a Putin ally who was driven from power in a popular uprising, and now lives in exile in Moscow -- certainly raises a lot of questions about the actual extent of his ties to the Russian oligarchy, which I'm sure many of us would like to see addressed forthrightly and not dodged.

    Aloha.


    Parent

    Yes, and the Republicn platform (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 05:01:54 PM EST
    underwent a Republican shift owing to Trump surrogates: eliminated references to arming Ukraine in its fight with Russia.

    Parent
    that's a pretty dumb list (none / 0) (#124)
    by linea on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:29:06 PM EST
    probably half the people on this forum woukd agree that America has no moral standing to complain about human and civil rights violations. not saying i agree, just saying that half the people on this forum would agree and that doesnt mske them pro-Putin.

    lots of people think it's fine that russia is killing terrorists in syria and it's hardly an "incursion" as they have had a major naval base there since forever.

    besides, i'm not sure if the Ukraine wants Crimea. unless they plan on disenfranchizing the people who live there from voting.

    i suspect a lot of people oppose sending arms to Ukraine.

    not sure how pro-Brexit translates as pro-Putin.  the Brits have the vote and can vote as they please.

    Parent

    Do you even understand what's going on here? (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:50:16 PM EST
    Because honestly, if you think that Russia is killing "terrorists" in Syria rather than targeting the political opponents of Bashir al Assad, or that Ukraine doesn't care about Russia seizing the Crimea, then you've given me cause to wonder where you're getting your information.


    Parent
    i think i understand (none / 0) (#127)
    by linea on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 11:29:38 PM EST
    i'm under the impression the bulk of "political opponents of Bashir al Assad" are islamists and thus embrace terrorism aganst the west as a religious imperative. i saw the videos.

    of course the ukraine cares about crimea. but considering that the populace is ethnic russian and they opposed the violent ouster of the previous elected president; seems the choice is between letting crimea go or disenfranchising ethnic russians from any future vote.

    that's how i understand it {smile}.

    Parent

    His statement about not having investments (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 03:25:18 PM EST
    in Russia was so misleading. That point is what investment they have in him. How much does he owe them?

    And that was before all of his goading about the emails.  In a way the email thing is taking attention away from the financial point.

    Parent

    Trump wants a (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 04:53:24 PM EST
    president who is a leader. President Obama may mention something about this matter of requesting espionage by a foreign government to aid in Trump's presidential campaign.  Maybe, the president can give him that leadership he is seeking by mentioning that the US Justice Department will launch an investigation "to see what's going on."    

    Parent
    There are days when I read Charles Pierce, ... (none / 0) (#6)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 05:39:41 PM EST
    ... and I just marvel at his eloquent analysis. And then there are days when I read Charles Pierce, and I only see Eeyore from the Winnie the Pooh books.

    That post was not written by Charlie (none / 0) (#7)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 05:46:36 PM EST
    Pierce. It was written by Margaret Doris.

    Parent
    Thank you for that clarification. (none / 0) (#10)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 26, 2016 at 06:10:21 PM EST
    That explains Eeyore's occasional presence on his blog. I shouldn't assume that every post on it is Pierce's. Margaret Doris is his wife.

    Parent
    Trump just had a presser (none / 0) (#35)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:31:40 AM EST
    Where he said things like he hopes the Russians have Hillary's 33,000 deleted emails,  campaign manager Robby Mook reminds him of Jon Lovitz, and when adked if the Geneva Conventions are out of date repled, "I think everything is out of date."

    Then (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:35:50 AM EST
    Per Twitter:

    Trump, just pressed by @KatyTurNBC if he has any qualms or gives pause to foreign gov't hacking to find HRC emails, says definitively: "No."

    (He also told told her to "Be quiet.)

    Parent

    What's the over under (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 12:51:01 PM EST
    Obama mentions this tonight?

    Parent
    That would not be an over/under (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:02:45 PM EST
    Unless you were asking how many times it would be mentioned.

    Parent
    I hope someone proposes... (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:09:46 PM EST
    making the nation great again, and going back to communicating by smoke signals.

    Parent
    Trump can be viewed as (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by MKS on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 01:48:45 PM EST
    funny....

    But this guy is getting closer to actual power.

     If you can't get aboard to stop this guy, it is hard to envision under what circumstances you would actually get in the game.  Instead of commenting from the sidelines.

    Parent

    I'm in the game... (3.50 / 2) (#71)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 02:00:47 PM EST
    as far as voting is concerned...haven't missed one yet.  Joining or supporting a party?  No chance my brother...at least these 2.  Corrupt to the bone both, just one is a more palatable corrupt, with tastier tablescraps. If that's enough for you, god bless.

    I think Trump is more just straight-up assw*pe than "dangerous"...Cheney and his figurehead were much more dangerous, and Senators like Clinton got in that game.  If you grew or distributed marijuana, Bill Clinton was as dangerous as to your well-being than Nixon, if not more so.

    If Trump is that dangerous, maybe y'all shouldn't have nominated the one person he might be able to beat....don't put that evil on me Ricky Bobby.

    Parent

    Not an as*wipe (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by MKS on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 07:46:05 PM EST
    A dangerous traitor.

    And if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt (why, one would do that, I don't know), he will still create great danger.

    Today, Trump said he is open to acknowledging Russia's annexation of Crimea.

    He has given Putin the green light to invade the Baltic countries.  What do you think Trump would do if that happened?  Overcompensate.

    I like reading up on the Cuban Missile Crisis.  It is unbelievable how JFK made the right decision every time.  If we had invaded Cuba, nuclear war would have ensued.  Recent scholarship has shown that Cuba had tactical, baby nukes all over the island in addition to the Soviet ICBMs. We did not know about the tactical nukes, which were operational--unlike the ICBMs.  

    We were set to invade Cuba.  My Dad, a career Army officer, was standing on a runway in Massachusetts for days waiting to board a plane to fly to Cuba and take the International Airport in Havana.  

    If we had invaded Cuba, they would have launched their tactical nukes (and Che' was clear about this), and Miami would likely be obliterated in nuclear attacks.  Then, guess what?

    You think Trump is an as*wipe.   No, he is dangerous.  The President cannot outsource decisions to the "generals" on t.v.  

    So, you can say we Democrats are screwed if Trump wins.  I think we would all be screwed.

    Parent

    I'll give JFK credit... (none / 0) (#135)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 06:22:20 AM EST
    for dodging that particular bullet, but our entire foreign policy since WW2 has been one long flirtation with danger filled with international atrocity. Which I fear Hillary will continue.

    Could Donald nuke somebody? I put nothing past him. I'm not voting for him, take it up with those who are considering it.

    Parent

    Choices (none / 0) (#109)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 06:01:41 PM EST
    For almost anything you desire are expanding by leaps and bounds...

    All except our political options.

    That should soon be changing, especially after this election, where the majority of voters do not like either candidate presented to them by the current political process.

    Parent

    With "rigged"... (none / 0) (#133)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 06:18:06 AM EST
    being a central campaign theme, the ultimate rigging goes unnoticed...the two party system.

    Parent
    If any other set of ideologies gets (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:19:11 PM EST
    adopted by even a consistent 33% of the population, we will have a true third party and that duopoly will be broken. I agree with you - I hope it happens on the liberal side of the spectrum, rather then the conservative or middle. Right now it seems to be a tossup as to which side will be the first viable 3rd party. When (I say optimistically)  Trump loses it could very well be his mix of racists, xenophobes and autocrats that gets there first.

    Parent
    Leftie third parties (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:25:42 PM EST
    Are going to do squat this cycle.  After the Clinton camp is done with Donald I predict 5% or less.

    Parent
    I think we have seen that the purity tests create (none / 0) (#144)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 01:12:02 PM EST
    a self-limiting membership on the furthest left. 33% of the electorate may never agree enough on goals or tactics.

    Parent
    I think we already have percentages... (none / 0) (#145)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 01:12:28 PM EST
    for 3, 4, and even 5 parties.  Problem is two fold...the D's and R's have used legislation to make it excessively difficult to get on ballots if you're not a D or R.  And you'd probably need 10 billion dollars to get a party off the ground in our dinero-polluted system.  The climate is ripe, but the hurdles are extraordinary.

    And that's how Special Interests and Wall St. like it...much easier on the discretionary funds budget to only have to spread your money around 2 parties than 4 or 5. Not to mention the media, you know they love the D v R dance.

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    I don't know, media seems pretty responsive to the (none / 0) (#146)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 01:58:17 PM EST
    idea of following the eyeballs. Where there are ratings there is opportunity. I can attest to that as one who has has to live with the entertainment tastes of 18-35 yr old males forever.

    Laws follow voters too,eventually, but not as responsively as the media market does.

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    What it most likely would (none / 0) (#149)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:14:01 PM EST
    Take,

    Is one of the new billionaires, the hi tech guy with a ego that can create a new party

    Peter Thiel is one that comes to my mind.

    Why play within the current system

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    A hardcore, scorched earth, libertarian party (none / 0) (#150)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:36:10 PM EST
    not your father's p*ssy Libertarian Party..

    Aren't those the people who've more-or-less  been bankrolling the Republicans for the last few decades?

    New choices means new ideas. What new ideas and perspectives do the Peter Thiels of the world have to offer us besides that "government has gotten too big and tyrannical" chestnut?

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    Well (none / 0) (#151)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:38:45 PM EST
    That is a great starting point!!!!

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    It's not really a starting point (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:47:13 PM EST
    when the right has already been beating it to death since Barry Goldwater.

    A real starting point would be one that grants preeminnce to info provided by cutting edge science ahead of entrenched economic interests.

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    No (none / 0) (#154)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:51:36 PM EST
    Republicans, especially the current Republican Party as constructed like Big Government, almost as much as the Democrats

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    Do you have the same complaints (none / 0) (#155)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:59:54 PM EST
    about Big Banks and Big Corporations?

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    Definitely (none / 0) (#156)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 05:05:09 PM EST
    There should not be a bank too big too fail.

    Let them fail, if they screw up.

    Right now, several banks are still too big too fail.

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    Letting them fail (none / 0) (#158)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 05:25:36 PM EST
    and breaking them up are two different things.

    The point of breaking them up is to avoid the disasterous, far-reaching consequences that could result from them failing.

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    Exactly (none / 0) (#160)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 05:40:55 PM EST
    They should be broken up, so never again must we bail out a bank because of their foolish decisions.
    In a better world, it would fold and its competitors would pick up its pieces.

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    No (none / 0) (#137)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 06:27:19 AM EST
    I think now it has been noticed,

    But will it have momentum to change

    The Bern became the face of a group of young voters that do not seem too aligned with the DNC

    Republicans have 2 apparent splits from the establishment, those following Trump, blue collar (what is left of them) Republicans, and the Conservative wing

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    A transcript of the presser (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 07:26:59 PM EST
    Washington Post:Donald Trump's falsehood-laden press conference, annotated

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    Tuesday Afternoon Open thread | 161 comments (161 topical)

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