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Thursday Open Thread

I'm busy at work today. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Thank you (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by jbindc on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:51:37 AM EST
    Bernie supporters!

    Wisconsin's luckless Democrats, gerrymandered into a minority and unable to retire Gov. Scott Walker (R-Wis.), went into Tuesday night hoping for a breakthrough. They saw a decent chance to defeat Rebecca Bradley, a conservative justice appointed to the state Supreme Court by Walker. Her opponent, JoAnne Kloppenburg, nearly won a seat on the court in 2011, before late-counted ballots from conservative Waukesha County did her in. And Bradley took a crucially-timed hit when reporters and the advocacy group One Wisconsin Now revealed far-right newspaper columns, with impolitic fulminations about gay rights, from her college years.

    Bradley won the election, a surprise to Democrats. This morning, some progressives picked a culprit: voters who cast ballots for Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (Vt.) and left the rest of their ballots blank. According to exit polling conducted by the independent group DecisionDesk and BenchMark Politics, perhaps 15 percent of Sanders voters skipped the Bradley-Kloppenburg race; just 4 percent of Hillary Clinton voters did the same.

    "There was an enormous drop-off," said Brandon Finnigin of DecisionDesk. "There was a substantial number of voters in that voted for Sanders, then for nothing else."



    I read (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 08:22:54 AM EST
    this the other day. Kind of kills the idea that Bernie has any kind of downticket strength. Of course, there's the theory that Republicans are voting for Bernie too.

    Parent
    Quite the hit job (1.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 08:08:01 AM EST

    The article offers scant evidence that skipping the down ballot races was disproportionate to Bernie voters.  A better explanation is the WAPO out to other Bernie.

    Parent
    I think the math (none / 0) (#5)
    by jbindc on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 08:15:37 AM EST
    Is a pretty good start.

    Bradley won 1,017,233 votes; Kloppenburg won just 925,929. But 1,004,636 people voted in the Clinton-Sanders contest.

    Then the exit polls.

    Parent

    So Bradley exceeded (none / 0) (#28)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 01:41:20 PM EST
    the combined total of Clinton and Sanders. In other words the yuge republican turnout made the down ballot dems more or less toast no matter what. So if Clinton and Sanders voters all voted down ballot the clopper would have had a narrower loss. Big deal.

    Parent
    Stop being so deliberately obtuse, Abdul. (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 02:26:16 PM EST
    The Clinton-Sanders contest in WI was a primary election. Therefore, one could only vote the Democratic ballot or Republican ballot but not both, whereas the State Supreme Court race was on the general ballot and thus open to everyone.

    Parent
    Interesting... (none / 0) (#14)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 10:13:43 AM EST
    ... sanders received 567,936 votes in Wisconsin and 15% didn't make it past the first question, That is a max 85,190 votes Kloppenburg could have received from Sanders voters, and yet she lost by 91,304.

    That can't be, JB claimed it was Sanders supporters fault, even sarcastically thanked them.  Turns out she should be sarcastically thanking HRC supporters as well.  Or find a more HRC friendly exit poll...

    Parent

    who cares about math? (none / 0) (#16)
    by pitachips on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 10:48:42 AM EST
    Sanders bad. Repeat.
     

    Parent
    Oh sweetie (none / 0) (#18)
    by jbindc on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 10:58:48 AM EST
    You might want to look at the math and exit polls again.  

    In the updated results (which you can link to from the article),  8% of Clinton voters and 22% of Sanders voters "did not vote or voted for Bradley. (And yes, shame on those Clinton voters, as HRC campaigned for and pushed very hard for people to vote for Kloppenburg).

    But they played a large role, and while it still may not have helped in the end, his supporters do not get (another) free pass with the tired,"Yeah, but look at Hillary! screed. If je wants to run as a Fem, then he should d@mn well educate his supporters about downticket races (one of the reasons given for why so many Sanders supporters voted for Bradley is because her name came first alphabetically. Sheesh).

    This is the kind of monsense we would have to look forward to in the event of a Bernie nomination.  Luckily, that isn't going to happen.


    Parent

    Mrs. Clinton, as a component (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by KeysDan on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 12:20:55 PM EST
    of campaigning in Wisconsin, presented an insightful and cogent speech at the University of Wisconsin-Madison regarding the US Supreme Court--one that gained the accolades of Sanders supporter, John Nichols of the Nation (also in Sanders corner). Moreover, Secretary Clinton addressed the importance of the Wisconsin Supreme Court race, namely that of Rebecca Bradley, to a ten-year term.

     Mrs Clinton made it clear, that the election was about more than her: "no to discrimination, no to hate speech and no to Bradley."  And, in Milwaukee: There is no place on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, or any court in this country, no place at all for Rebecca Bradley's decades long track record of dangerous rhetoric against women, survivors of sexual assault, and the LGBT community."

     Bradley, supported by Scott Walker, the Wisconsin Club for Growth and other conservative groups, mocked queers who got AIDS and compared abortion to the Holocaust and slavery. Bradley has since apologized for those writings and will probably be more careful about the expression of her feelings in the future.

    Senator Sanders addressed the Bradley issue by encouraging a large turnout for him so that it would elect Joanne Kloppenburg.  Mrs. Clinton, in my view, showed her concern for the entire ticket in a manner that showed that her understanding of national and local issues, once again, qualifies her for president.


    Parent

    So Your Complaint... (none / 0) (#21)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 12:08:20 PM EST
    ... is exactly what, that Sanders supporters stopped after the Presidential Primary line more than HRC supporters did on the ballot ?  

    My math was fine, your quote & snark were wrong.  Sanders did not cost Kloppenburg the election, turnout did.

    The real problem in the primary, is HRC can't get people to the polls, and of course her supporters blaming everyone else for her deficiencies.

    Don't call me sweetie, you used to be better than that.

    Parent

    If Clinton can't get voters to the polls (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by CoralGables on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 12:23:23 PM EST
    why does she have 2.4 million more votes than Sanders?

    Parent
    In Relation to JB's Comment... (none / 0) (#24)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 12:36:18 PM EST
    ... it meant that more R's showed up in WI than D's.  Compared to 2008, nearly double the R turnout.  That is what cost Kloppenburg.

    That is going to be a problem for Clinton, being ahead by 10/20 points in the polls isn't going to matter if Trump keeps getting people in his party to the polls.

    Not sure why we keep talking about Sanders, he's been done for like a month.  She beat him, obviously she got more D's to vote for her, but the overall D count is bad compared to R's.

    Parent

    The good (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 12:59:27 PM EST
    news is that primaries are not indicative of anything that is going to happen in November.

    Parent
    I wouldn't really say (none / 0) (#25)
    by CST on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 12:59:13 PM EST
    Trump got people to the polls in Wisconsin.

    And maybe one of the reasons Democrats aren't going to the polls is that they don't care who wins the primary/she already won?

    Parent

    At least (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 01:19:23 PM EST
    with Hispanics the problem is that they think Hillary already won the primary. So apparently they thought/think that they didn't need to show up.

    Parent
    I think Trump got 'em out... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 02:20:06 PM EST
    to vote for Cruz. Lord knows Cruz didn't get 'em out to vote for Cruz!

    Credit to Wisconsin, not only did they choose Bernie, their conservatives ain't down with the Trump schtick.  Vonnegut's "Fresh Water Socialists" and Great Lakes politeness in action.

    Parent

    I wouldn't (none / 0) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 03:52:51 PM EST
    celebrate them picking Cruz. He's George W. Bush dominionism on steroids.

    Parent
    I have read the entire analysis (5.00 / 5) (#36)
    by Towanda on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 04:41:16 PM EST
    of the election data, by Benchmark, and the evidence is there:  If Sanders voters had voted downticket, for Kloppenburg, she would have won.  

    (That's even without the far fewer Clinton voters who did not vote downticket -- about the same number, by the way, as Republican crossovers to the Dem presidential race.  So, they could not stomach Trump or Cruz or Bradley.)

    In Madison alone, more than eight thousand voters did not vote downticket. Madison = Sanders voters.

    Add to the analysis a lot more that we who followed this race closely know, such as that both Clinton and Sanders were asked, prior to the major event of the state Dem party -- with major news coverage, just before election day -- to publicly endorse Kloppenburg at the event.  Clinton did so.  Sanders refused.

    As a result, we continue to have a Walkerite, right-wing, state Supreme Court for many years ahead.  How many years? At least a decade, as our justices serve ten-year terms. So, even if we have a Dem president for two terms ahead, when that president leaves the White House, Bradley will still have two more years on the high court in Wisconsin.

    And if you have not followed all that Bradley has written -- the homophobia, the xenophobia, the extremism on reproductive rights and more -- you have no idea how bad this will be in Wisconsin.  

    If you have not followed how meteoric has been the rise, due to Walker, of the incredibly unqualified Bradley -- even without her horrific writings -- you have no idea how much a legal blog ought to care about what has happened to what was one of the most respected high courts in the country, in only a few years.

    This result discredits the entire justice system.  

    Parent

    Care to Share the Math ? (none / 0) (#88)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:40:18 AM EST
    Or is this a judgement call.

    I don't see it, had Sanders supporters been as faithful as HRC supporters, Kloppenburg would have lost.

    Parent

    Scott, I think this is an issue. (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by vml68 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 12:41:32 PM EST
    both Clinton and Sanders were asked, prior to the major event of the state Dem party -- with major news coverage, just before election day -- to publicly endorse Kloppenburg at the event.  Clinton did so.  Sanders refused.

    I read a comment elsewhere that I think brings up an important point. The commenter said that at the start of the primary he thought Bernie would get all of his young supporters excited about politics and encourage them to become involved in national and local elections/politics but instead Bernie is only getting them excited about 'Bernie sanders'.

    While Sanders was not my choice for POTUS, till a few days ago, I would have had no issues with him becoming POTUS if Hillary did not win the nomination. Now, I really hope that does not happen.
    IMO, he has demonstrated that he is unprepared for the job. I gave him a pass on foreign policy even though that it probably one of the most critical responsibilities of the Presidency. But, if he cannot even demonstrate proficiency on the subject of breaking up the banks, that is scary.
    Now, he also demonstrating a temperament ( angry, reactionary) that I think is unsuited to the job.

    Parent

    I cited a source (none / 0) (#103)
    by Towanda on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 11:51:47 AM EST
    . . . so here's whatcha do: google the name of the source, benchmark, and the term kloppenburg.  

    (I'm on a tablet not amenable to TL's complicated embedding to not post the url.)

    Parent

    Really... (2.00 / 1) (#108)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 12:34:10 PM EST
    ... you are not going to explain it, just that 'the evidence is there.

    Parent
    The link (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by jbindc on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 12:45:11 PM EST
    Is in the article I posted above.

    Can you not make 2 clicks, especially as Towanda has told you exactly what to look at?

    Parent

    I explained it above (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Towanda on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 05:31:40 PM EST
    and named, in the first line, my source.

    Then you asked for the source.

    Then I said how to get to the source.

    Now you ask me to explain it.

    Seriously, no more Midwestern nice for you.  Here, have a New York value: F*ck off.

    Parent

    So You Have Been Nice to Me So Far... (none / 0) (#176)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 09:41:06 AM EST
    ... holly hell.

    It's just so sad to see people who used to be civil and people I respected, do 180's over HRC.  I simply asked to show your work, and instead of being a descent human being and explaining how you arrived at your conclusions, you decided the best course of action was a Trump style lashing out.

    Parent

    Maybe, Scott, you might want to look at (none / 0) (#190)
    by christinep on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 09:57:37 PM EST
    yourself and attitudes in these months as well.  IMO, your position is becoming less flexible and more fixed at the same time as you perceive others changing so much.  Your language in response to others as to the Democratic political contest is becoming increasingly didactic.  

    Granted we all see what we want to see ... and that includes yourself. :)

    Parent

    Yeah OK.. (none / 0) (#194)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 11:16:17 AM EST
    ... as much as I love your condescension, it really backs up what I said, HRC supporters have lost all perspective.

    Didactic indeed.

    FWIW, I actually liked HRC, still do, and it's all logged here and if you actually cared, I suggest you investigate befor making assumptions.  But this endless drivel from her supporters is just vomit inducing.  From Sanders costing WI an supreme court judge to subway tokes, to being on the WS payroll isn't a bad thing, to the people who used to criticize Obama often, now love that his policies will be continued.  It's GWB level of you are either with HRC or you are against her, and apparently the cabal at TL has decided I am against her, thus an enemy.

    It's mind boggling to see people who used to be objective, so narrowly focused that any mention of a negative is deemed as statement from the enemy.  I am positive that a good portion of HRC supporters think I back Sanders, I do not have said it many, many times.  But that doesn't matter, what matters is I am not towing the HRC line to their liking.

    My problem isn't with HRC, it's with the delusion that has taken over TL.  Even the Jeralyn analysis, subway tokens prove HRC is more NY than Sanders and that is valid reason to vote for her.  I didn't even know how to respond to something so nonsensical.

    It's shameful and I am not going to be who you think I should be so your delicate HRC sensibilities won't get ruffled.

    Parent

    Scott, how is it that you can make a (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by vml68 on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 12:39:49 PM EST
    HRC supporters have lost all perspective
    .

    blanket statement like this but HRC supporters cannot say the same for Sanders supporters.
    How many HRC supporters have you heard say that they will not vote for Bernie if he is the nominee vs Bernie supporters saying they will sit out the election or vote Trump?

    I do not think you dislike Clinton but for some reason you react strongly to every snarky, unflattering comment about Sanders but don't have the same reaction when comments like that are made about Clinton.

    You have railed about the silliness of the subway tokens/ Metrocard issue which really is a non-issue but you have not had much to say when there have been discussions about Sanders' NYDN interview or his lack of transparency regarding his taxes or his downright lying about Clinton saying he was unqualified to be POTUS.
    Or about his campaign saying that they will ask for the superdelegates to switch their votes even if Bernie is behind in the pledged delegates and the popular vote? Or Bernie refusing at first to say that he would support Clinton if she was the nominee?

    You are being aggressive towards Towanda for 'not showing her work', yet she has provided you with the links that formed her opinion. If you have come to a different conclusion or can't see how she arrived at her conclusion after checking out her links, why don't you discuss that?

    I'll be honest and say that I have been very surprised by the 'tone' and 'attitude' of your comments.
    You are one of the few commenters that I find myself in agreement with almost all the time. My world has been turned upside down since I have started agreeing with Christine (my apologies Christine!) instead of you :-)

    P.S.- Since you mentioned Clinton taking Wall Street money, let me just say that I have absolutely no issues with it. I know plenty of people who work there, friends, ex-neighbors, etc., all people like me, immigrants who came to this country and found financial success and most of them came from what in this country would be considered poverty. So, in effect they are all contributing in some way to those fees.

    Parent

    Fascinating (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by christinep on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 05:08:33 PM EST
    And your screed about my "condescension"  is somehow not condescending ... yoiks.

    I think that what is troubling to you--what you call "delusion"--demonstrates something in you more than in HRC supporters.  Using words like "vomit" are a give-away, usually, in terms of who is more emotionally invested in a cause.  What is most fascinating about your acknowledged distaste for strong HRC support is the emotion in your own response.

    And yes, it is rather didactic to define others' commenting in a way that doesn't track your thinking as "drivel."  

    Parent

    Really? (3.67 / 3) (#78)
    by jbindc on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 07:23:43 AM EST
    You're over the top sarcasm about me is ok, but when I return the favor in kind, then it's "you used to better than that"?

    O-kay.

    As Towanda pointed out, my comment was correct - Bernie voters who couldn't be bothered to vote were a large reason Bradley won.  I'm sorry you don't like facts and the data that show it, but that's the reality.

    It's something that would be a huge concern if Bernie were actually going to be the nominee, it's a concern in general as to why won't these people vote when there isn't a personality they love on the ticket, and it sure as hell won't help any argument Bernie thinks he's going to make to superdelegates.

    Parent

    Bernie Voters (none / 0) (#89)
    by Steve13209 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:40:51 AM EST
    Perhaps the newly registered (or interested) Bernie voters didn't realize there was more on the ballot? I've made the mistake of voting for candidates and missing the referendum votes.

    That said, you can't blame Sanders voters for a judge losing. If Sanders wasn't running, then 100% of those voters wouldn't have voted for the Dem judge.

    Parent

    Then shame on them (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by jbindc on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:49:15 AM EST
    These are supposedly very smart people-I assume they can read. They could also scan local election coverage, besides things that prop Bernie up.  Their candidate for president could have also talked about it on the stump (instead of one tepid reference) and encouraged his supporters to pay attention and vote.

    From what I understand, this was a big news story in Wisconsin - somewhere along the line, those supporters would have heard about it, and in a perfect world, had the intellectual curiosity to learn more.

    Parent

    How nice for you (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Towanda on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 11:50:15 AM EST
    to no longer be in Wisconsin so who cares?

    Seriously, the ballot was very clear.  Started with the presidential primary.  Right below it, the state supreme court election.  Didn't even have to turn it over for that.  (Did have to do so, as directed also quite clearly, for some local races.)

    And yes, they can be blamed by the evidence.  See reply to your query for how to google.

    Parent

    Newer was in Wisconsin to vote (none / 0) (#187)
    by Steve13209 on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 11:00:38 AM EST
    I have NY values.

    But seriously, you have to find a way to vilify Bernie Sanders for winning Wisconsin? He didn't go into WI to campaign for a State Judge. I thought downticket voting was HRC's claim to fame.

    Are you saying that if all those Sanders voters voted for Hillary that they would have magically gotten smarter about local election politics? Does HRC have that kind of psychokinetic power?

    Parent

    The Hastert Rule. (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by KeysDan on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 03:19:28 PM EST
    The longest serving Republican Speaker of the House (1999-2007), Dennis Hastert, will be sentenced April 27. This sentencing follows Hastert's guilty plea for evading federal reporting requirements. Hastert was in process of paying off Individual A, in an apparent settlement-type agreement for $3.5 million ($1.7 million has been paid). Prosecutors have asked for no more than six months in jail; the defense team has asked for probation. The judge may give up to five years in jail.

     The Chicago Tribune
    has published an investigative report on at least four males (Individuals A, B, C, and D)that have been victims of misconduct by Hastert while wrestling coach at Yorkville High in an exurb of Chicago.

    Apologizing in a court filing by Hastert attorneys: "Mr. Hastert is deeply sorry and apologizes for his misconduct that occurred decades ago and the resulting harm he caused to others."

     Hastert also contacted Individual D's relatives to get a letter of recommendation of all the good things he has done since ...his misconduct.  This caused Individual D to tell the judge that he would make his own report on what Hastert did to him. Individual D is uncertain if he will personally make his report. A sister of one of his victims, who is now deceased, will testify in court.

    If the authorities have identified ... (none / 0) (#57)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 08:48:26 PM EST
    ... at least four individuals as victims of Dennis Hastert's predatory sexual behavior, the odds are quite likely that there are even more of them who, for whatever reason, have declined to come forward.

    Personally, I find it very sad how the media only became interested in this story after Hastert was indicted and agreed to plead guilty to one felony count of evading federal currency requirements. Jolene Burdge had first publicly confronted him in 1995 -- four years before he ever became House Speaker -- in the parking lot of a Kendall County, IL funeral home, when he had the audacity to attend the wake of her late brother, whom he had molested on a regular basis between 1968 and 1971.

    Hastert's reported homosexuality was a thinly veiled secret among congressional staff on Capitol Hill, and I can only imagine what might have happened had this story broke in early 1999, once he had taken the House reins after serial adulterers Newt Gingrich and Bob Livingstone had fallen by the proverbial wayside. And no small wonder why he went out of his way to suppress the story about Florida Congressman Mark Foley's sexual harassment of teenaged House pages.

    Only after Hastert was finally exposed -- and THAT was only because one of his victims had been found by sheriff's deputies in his broken-down van with tens of thousands of dollars in cash on him, a circumstance which he could not readily explain -- did he ever begin to express any remorse for his selfish behavior and heartless actions. Basically, he was only sorry that he got caught.

    And let's please not forget all the anti-LGBT measures that this deeply closeted scumbag allowed to be brought to the House floor and passed during the eight years he presided as Speaker. And further, he personally voted in favor of each and every one of them.

    I hope that Federal Judge Thomas Durkin not only throws the book at Dennis Hastert, but further tips over the entire bookshelf on top of him for good measure.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    My mom is one of a kind! (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 03:58:09 PM EST
    She's in her eighties. Still a Marxist. And a big Bernie supporter.

    I was talking to her on the phone today, and she said, "You know I just realized Bernie Sanders is Jewish."

    I had to laugh. Because Bernie sounds exactly like her uncle (my great uncle). Jewish. Lived his whole life in Brooklyn. Same accent. Same big flappy hands.  I told her this.  She said:

    Really?

    She just doesn't see these differences in people. Now, admittedly, she's spent most of adult life in the Pacific Northwest where people don't make such a big deal of these differences.  But still ...

    One of a kind.

    That is Funny On So Many Levels... (none / 0) (#39)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 05:16:39 PM EST
    ...but very interesting when I think about the things you have said about Bernie supporters.

    Put me in the group that has no clue about jews, had no idea people still cared until I moved to Texas.  Where apparently my last name, which comes from a castle in Germany, sounds jewish to people.

    One of my first girlfriends down here was from NY and I tried to get some answers.  Still don't really understand, jewish blood to me indicates race, but I don't think DNA would reveal who is jewish, certainly as you mentioned, there are jewish physical traits, but it's a religion as I have a friend who converted.  

    Sanders, it never occurred to me until I saw Larry David doing the over top Sanders impression mentioning it.

    Also here there are some comments that have phrases in them that I have googled, like 'meh' which I searched and found to be yiddish, but I have no idea if that is something people just say, if they are jewish, or if it's just one of those online things.  I don't actually care enough to ask, but I do like the 'oy' usually with extra y's.

    Parent

    A DNA test would not reveal (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by caseyOR on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 06:00:49 PM EST
    if someone is a member of the Jewish religion. Religion is a choice. It can reveal if someone has Jewish heritage. There are genetic markers for  three identified Jewish lines: Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrachi .

    Yiddish is a language spoken by Jews from Europe, especially Eastern Europe. As so much of the Jewish population in the U.S. Immigrated from that area Yiddish phrases have found their way into our national language. Oy, meh, meshuganah, schvitzing, all Yiddish words heard in the U.S.

    Parent

    A Jewish friend (none / 0) (#140)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 05:49:14 PM EST
    ...had her genome sequenced, tells me she is 98% Ashkenazi Jew, and 2% Neanderthal.

    Says her mother told her to marry somebody who wasn't Jewish, which she did, but probably not because her mother told her to.

    Parent

    ... or so says Bennett Greenspan, CEO of Family Tree DNA, who claimed back in 2007 that an estimated 75% of Jews can trace their ancestry to Ashekanzi, Sephardi or Mizrahi origins in the Middle East. He further noted without irony that they share many of these same DNA markers with people of Muslim Arabic descent, because both are ethnically Semitic.

    Parent
    Remember isolation ... (none / 0) (#45)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 06:54:02 PM EST
    increases cultural traits.

    Historically Jews were very isolated. They could only live certain places, hold certain jobs, marry certain people. So a very strong culture developed.

    Jews who left Europe brought this culture with them. And though things were better in America many of these conditions still existed. So the culture stayed strong and new elements were added.

    This culture helped us survive. So we're very proud of it. And wary of assimilation. In fact, assimilation has long been an anathema to Jewish people. The Maccabean Revolt, still celebrated today on Hanukkah, was a war to prevent assimilation.

    So that's a really quick explanation of why there's a distinct and identifiable Jewish culture.

    Parent

    If you've lost Krugman (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by CoralGables on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 06:58:29 AM EST
    Unfortunately, in the past few days the answer has become all too clear: Mr. Sanders is starting to sound like his worst followers. Bernie is becoming a Bernie Bro.

    You can find the rest here:

    Sanders Over The Edge

    PK has gone over the edge (none / 0) (#91)
    by Steve13209 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:44:14 AM EST
    It's sad to see PK denigrate Sanders while giving Clinton a pass. However, the approach is similar to what I see elsewhere. Complain about tone and demeanor and finger wagging, but somehow forget the actual policy positions.

    Parent
    Krugman (none / 0) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:52:09 AM EST
    has written columns on Bernie's policy short comings. So you really can't hit him with that particular criticism.

    Parent
    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by FlJoe on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 10:44:07 AM EST
    Professor K has been consistent on questioning Sanders on his policies. While he often found them lacking, he did so through reasoned analysis rather then knee jerk finger pointing.

    Now that he and many others are witnessing some rather obvious knee jerk finger pointing from  Bernie, he has a right and a duty as an intellectual leader of the left to tell him to cool it.

    Parent

    The point is (none / 0) (#182)
    by Steve13209 on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 10:43:54 AM EST
    PK is comparing Sanders' policies with the GOP. But nowhere do I see an evaluation of Clinton's incremental improvements to Obamacare. I think PK has pretty much said that Obamacare is all we can expect, will not go away and will not be able to change much. Is anyone questioning HRC's "plan" for Obamacare or just accepting her position as a reasonable one, albeit, void of specifics?

    Parent
    Time and again over the last few months, ... (none / 0) (#131)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 04:56:01 PM EST
    ... Paul Krugman has noted the shortcomings in Sanders' proposals. From his latest op-ed:

    "Let me illustrate the point about issues by talking about bank reform. The easy slogan here is 'Break up the big banks.' It's obvious why this slogan is appealing from a political point of view: Wall Street supplies an excellent cast of villains. But were big banks really at the heart of the financial crisis, and would breaking them up protect us from future crises?

    "Many analysts concluded years ago that the answers to both questions were no. Predatory lending was largely carried out by smaller, non-Wall Street institutions like Countrywide Financial; the crisis itself was centered not on big banks but on 'shadow banks' like Lehman Brothers that weren't necessarily that big. And the financial reform that President Obama signed in 2010 made a real effort to address these problems. It could and should be made stronger, but pounding the table about big banks misses the point.

    "Yet going on about big banks is pretty much all Mr. Sanders has done. On the rare occasions on which he was asked for more detail, he didn't seem to have anything more to offer. And this absence of substance beyond the slogans seems to be true of his positions across the board."

    You really ought to take the time to actually read the article before you criticize it -- if only so you won't again make the absurd claim that Dr. Krugman somehow isn't addressing Bernie's lack of specifics in detail.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    See my post above, expanded below. (none / 0) (#183)
    by Steve13209 on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 10:47:49 AM EST
    Donald,

    I understand PK doing the analysis on Bernie's plans...that is actually fine with me. Bernie's plan will take some fleshing out, but the policy is solid. What I take issue with, is PK's lack of comparison of Bernie's vs Hillary's plans. Nowhere to be seen is the detailed analysis of the Clinton incremental improvement plan for the ACA. Is this because HRC has not said exactly what she will do, how she will pass it, how it will actually improve the ACA and how it will be paid for?

    Parent

    Did Krugman write that Sanders' policy (none / 0) (#189)
    by ExPatObserver on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 02:43:54 PM EST
    is solid?

    Parent
    Who was a better legislator? (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by jbindc on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 08:22:23 AM EST
    There is a meme going around that Bernie can get things done because of all the amendments he got through.  Fair enough.  

    But when we look at the record, it still falls short of HRC's.

    So maybe, after his national exposure, he'll use some of that ability to push through some of his pet issues.

    Governing by the numbers (none / 0) (#185)
    by Steve13209 on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 10:50:13 AM EST
    Maybe we should see just what bills HRC got passed and what amendments added before we decide what "better" means.

    jb, you are supporting HRC now? At least that is progress.

    Parent

    Charles Rangel on the (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by smott on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 12:08:15 PM EST
    Qualifications kerfuffle - sticks it.

    "Who the hell is Bernie Sanders to say who is not qualified for President?"

    Rangel whacks it out of the park about 1 minute in.  

    Nails Sanders for arrogance too. It was very sharp elbowed. Good on Charlie.

    This is the best thing (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by CST on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 03:27:51 PM EST
    I've seen all election.  Just one more reason to vote for Hillary!

    Link

    "John Podesta, Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman, says it's time for the U.S. government to release any evidence it has about the existence of alien forms of life in outer space.

    Podesta, who was also a chief of staff to President Bill Clinton, told CNN that if Hillary Clinton is elected, she'll ask for as many records about Area 51 in Nevada as the U.S. government has to be declassified.  

    "I think that's a commitment that she intends to keep and that I intend to hold her to," Podesta told CNN."

    I think he's 100% serious too...

    Talk about undocumented creatures! (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by oculus on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 05:50:56 PM EST
    Build the Dome (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by CoralGables on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:01:15 PM EST
    and make them pay for it.

    Parent
    GA (none / 0) (#1)
    by jbindc on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:39:16 AM EST
    Thought of you whileI was  driving to work this morning.  I was right behind your former Congress-critter and current Senator, Johnny Isaakson.  How do I know this?  His Georgia license plate has "US Senator" on the bottom and he has a "Johnny" sticker on his window.

    Seems to me you wouldn't want to advertise that too much....

    He was (none / 0) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 08:20:21 AM EST
    my rep after Newt the insane and he was the best rep I ever had. He had a great reputation as willing to at least listen to any constituent and what they had to say unlike Saxby who was really, really bad. But now with the tea party takeover of the GOP he's gone down the rabbit hole with the rest of them.

    Parent
    I'll call your raccoon and raise a possum (none / 0) (#3)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:54:54 AM EST
    Filed under BIOR

    The  Horseshoe casino in Robinsonville, MS floats on a cove of the Mississippi river and is an oasis of concrete and wonderful activities like gambling, delicious food and other such sins. ;-)

    No one ever thinks of it as a wild life preserve.

    Inside the casino the poker room has a false ceiling concealing the climate control systems and security cameras.

    Suddenly one of the panels fell off, almost hitting the dealer at table 3. Looking up the players observed a large raccoon trying desperately to not fall out. Slowly the frightened animal pulled itself back up and into the dark space.

    Security raced to the scene. A mechanical hoist  was brought to the scene....the panel was replaced... Wisely, no one pursued the beast into its lair....

    Given that raccoons wear a permanent robber's mask and are known to steal dog food from garages and waste food from garbage cans it seems only right that it has upgraded its efforts in an attempt to hit the big time.

    If only Jerry Clower was still alive.

    Raccoons are creatures of opportunity. (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:25:37 PM EST
    They will devour whatever is edible and readily available, and have no qualms about poaching another animal's food. My uncle and aunt in suburban San Diego learned exactly that one evening many years ago, just shortly after they had dutifully filled their dogs' food bowls on the back porch.

    Within five minutes, they saw a quartet of raccoons amble leisurely into the back yard, intimidate the dogs into abandoning custody of their bowls, and then proceed to scarf down all the dry dog food.

    My uncle then thought he'd solve the problem by filling a small metal washtub with dry dog food, so that the raccoons would leave the dogs' food alone. But doing that only attracted even more raccoons to the yard, sometimes as many as ten to twelve. At that point, some of their neighbors complained about all the raccoons in the immediate vicinity.

    So, my uncle and aunt gave in, and brought the dogs inside for their evening meals. Eventually, the raccoons stopped coming around. But occasionally, when we were still kids and were down there on a visit, they'd fill up the washtub with dried dog food just so we could see what would happen -- and sure enough, back came the raccoons!

    So it was pretty apparent that the raccoons were still keeping the yard under regular observation, just for those moments of human generosity. And one evening when we were down there, my relatives' largesse even attracted a pair of grey foxes.

    Obviously, I now know that feeding wild animals is generally not a good idea, because they can start seeing the presence of humans as a likely source of an easy meal and thus lose their natural wariness about us. But back when I was a kid, I thought the display taking place in my uncle's and aunt's back yard was way cool.

    A few years ago, my aunt died and we were down in San Diego for her funeral. The evening after we laid her to rest, I asked my uncle whether he still saw raccoons in the neighborhood. He just smiled, went to the garage and brought out the washtub and a bag of dog food. Within 15 minutes, the back yard had five raccoons in it, surrounding the washtub and chowing down. He then admitted that he still fed them once a week, because he and my aunt had actually come to enjoy their company.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I hope you enjoyed (none / 0) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 12:18:49 AM EST
    the Jerry Clower bit. But let me assure you that we didn't climb trees or cut them down back when I was a boy and went on coon hunts. In fact we mostly let them go after the dogs had treed them. However, the local Demo hoodoos had an annual coon dinner so some were "harvested."

    Coons have adapted to man very well. The casinos are surrounded by dense forests and crop lands. They raid the dumpsters for discarded food from the restaurants. No one seems to know how this one got in but I assume that's a high priority for the maintenance people.  The poker room staff has named him "Bandit."

    Feeding them will just attract more. They carry several contagious diseases including rabies so I would urge anyone to not feed'em.


    Parent

    Raccoons are a lot more prevalent ... (none / 0) (#95)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:59:46 AM EST
    ... in urban communities than most people realize, in part because the animals are secretive creatures who can conceal themselves very well. Just because we don't see them doesn't mean they're not lurking nearby.

    A comprehensive study undertaken a decade or so ago by the University of Washington's Dept. of Zoology and Wildlife Sciences of the resident raccoon population in Seattle and its environs, which have large swathes of urban parkland, yielded some surprising findings:

    • First, there were nearly double the number of raccoons living in greater Seattle's residential areas than had been previously estimated.

    • Second, while we've assumed them to be social creatures, raccoons are also a lot more territorial than had previously been thought and don't long accept the presence of interloping fellow coons. Transients are free to pass through and visit on their way to someplace else. But if they start hanging out on a regular basis, there's going to be trouble.

    • Third, when foraging for food, individuals tend to stick to square grid patterns of about a dozen or so residential / business properties apiece, with some overlap tolerated amongst them, and will work these grids in a circuit. (That explains why they showed up quickly whenever my aunt and uncle put out food. They don't just disappear, but are instead checking out the property daily to see if anything is available.)

    • And finally, even though the Seattle area is full of lush forested parklands, raccoons tend to not reside or hang out in them, and often merely traverse these parks on their foraging circuits of the surrounding residential households. Raccoons that reside in wilderness areas require a lot more territory for purposes of foraging than do their urban counterparts.

    These findings led researchers to conclude that not only have raccoons adapted extraordinarily well to urban environments, but that a distinct and often complex symbiotic relationship had also developed between the corresponding resident populations of raccoons and humans. This allows these animals to thrive and even prosper in urban areas, hence the much larger numbers of them than had earlier been supposed.

    Your story about the raccoons in the casino is quite amusing, and also evidences how opportunistic these animals really are. If they can find an opening to get inside, they'll quickly set up shop in a structure's attic and elsewhere. My mother's neighbors once had a mother raccoon that nested inside a very seldom accessed back room of their garage, where she raised her offspring.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Raccoons must like fish... (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 10:13:41 AM EST
    as much as you do Jim;)

    Parent
    Only another player (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:30:30 PM EST
    will understand that.

    But you really should have been there.

    The coon dropped his (?) bacon strip and for a second I thought he was gonna come after it...

    He (?) has been named "Bandit" and the event is now known as the "Coon Affair."

    Management has been silent.

    Parent

    Definitely do not pursue (none / 0) (#63)
    by Towanda on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 09:53:42 PM EST
    raccoons into lairs, or anywhere, without professional training or assistance.

    We have a lot of 'em in my neighborhood, and we have been so advised, because -- increasingly, raccoons are rabid.  As in: rabies carriers.

    Parent

    An extremely large raccoon shimmied its (none / 0) (#67)
    by oculus on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 11:13:16 PM EST
    snout into a large pot on my patio. Broad daylight. I thought it was stuck in the pot. But no. Drinking the water collected in the pot. The next day the pot was tipped over. Did not break. Further research revealed the average life of a raccoon is three yrs.

    Parent
    Smoke On The Water (none / 0) (#9)
    by ragebot on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 08:47:59 AM EST
    Indonesia Blows Up Fishing Boats Of Poachers.

    The above headline describe a rather drastic solution to what is becoming a real problem.  Modern fishing fleets often travel tens of thousands of miles from their home port and are destroying fishing stocks with over fishing.  This is not the first time what could be described as a third world nation taking things into their own hands.

    Someone Posted... (none / 0) (#15)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 10:34:28 AM EST
    ... the same thing last week in regards to the Chilean Navy? sinking a Chinese shipping vessel of their coast.

    Make that Argentina.

    Parent

    Don't sink my boats, Argentina... (none / 0) (#41)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 06:27:17 PM EST
    Talkleft seems to have (none / 0) (#10)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 09:17:42 AM EST
    devolved into an HRC fanboy site where Sanders supporters are pilloried. Kind of sad.

    I can tell you that here in my part of southcentral PA, (Susquehanna Valley/York/Lancaster), there seems to be scant support for HRC. Granted, this area is predominantly conservative, but my neighborhood has had a turnover from older folks to young families and the young families tend to skew more liberal. I like to sit on the front porch after work, so I get to talk politics with my neighbors. None are excited about voting for HRC. None are Drumpf supporters. A couple are Bernie supporters. But my main observation is the complete lack of interest or any excitement about Clinton. I think this is going to be a killer in the general election. Methinks the Dems had better hope for a Cruz candidacy in the general 'cause Hillary is in trouble against Drumpf.

    Susquehanna ... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 10:50:39 AM EST
    um ?? (none / 0) (#60)
    by linea on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 09:23:00 PM EST
    I don't understand. How is that old black-and-white film clip about straw hats a response to Chuck0's post?

    Parent
    The key is ... (none / 0) (#68)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 11:16:32 PM EST
    Susquehanna!

    Parent
    Or (none / 0) (#73)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 05:24:36 AM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/ncch3q5

    there is always Niagara Falls

    Parent

    But he said ... (none / 0) (#115)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 02:37:19 PM EST
    Susquehanna ... so that was the apt skit.

    Parent
    As one born & bred in Northumberland Co (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by christinep on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 08:35:48 PM EST
    and as one with relatives all over & around other parts of the Coal Region and, of course, Philly, this is what I recall: The area that you describe--York, Lancaster, et al--is known as a Repub stronghold.  So ... what you say is expected there. (But, they sure have good shoo fly pie)

    Parent
    The entire internet is a Bernie fanboy site. (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Anc260 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 01:56:04 AM EST
    Why can't Sanders' supporters leave any space for Clinton supporters?

    This is why his supporters are convinced that they represent the majority of voters. They scream and shout until no one bothers to engage them in a dialogue, then they say "See! No one supports her!"

    Parent

    That's what I wonder (5.00 / 4) (#79)
    by Nemi on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 07:31:53 AM EST
    And why must Bernie Sanders' supporters, on top of that, (try to) 'infest' and 'opinionate' on every blog, every commentthread, every Twitter- or Facebook-debate, in short everywhere where the mood isn't pro-Bernie Sanders? More often than not with hate, outright lies, sexism and misogyni, not to mention expressing everlasting love and admiration for this election season's (male) 'saviour'?

    One could add a 'how' to the 'why': There must be quite an organization behind this effort to derail anything not pro-Bernie, and being able to be that omnipresent. At Shakesville, one of the few safe places I've found this 'season', it seems like Melissa McEwan and her moderators have their hands full swatting (my not her expression!) the intruding Bernie-fans.

    I really liked Peter Daou and Tom Watson's #hillarymen. Everyone should have loyal, supportive friends like them. And I really like Peter Daou's new site Blue Nation Review and it's many great writers. It's a safe place to visit, as there is no comments section, but even as it is 100% factual it is also 100% pro-Hillary Clinton, which makes it a site I neither can nor will refer or link to, to make a point in debate with pro-Bernie Sanders people. It would render me untrustworthy in their eyes, as positive things written or said about Hillary Clinton by definition are ... untrustworthy.

    And this site, TalkLeft, is a safe place, and it really shouldn't surprise anyone that it is pro-Hillary as so is our hostess. Yet as Jeralyn is remarkably welcoming to everyone, as long as they stay within the commenting rules, pro-Bernie Sanders and even Republicans can comment. If they can take the, often righteous, pushback from other commenters.

    Personally I was sorry and puzzled to see former 2008 pro-Hillary (as I recall?) commenters, whose comments I've always respected turn against her, sometimes viciously so, and leave in a huff, when the pushback got too much. I would have liked them to stay and would have liked them to keep making arguments for their turning to and supporting Bernie Sanders. Were they really pilloried to the extent, that it was necessary to leave? Maybe I just didn't notice?

    And I would still like to know how female voters, feminists even, don't see Bernie Sanders and his male triumvirate's by now overt sexism. Puzzling and worrying ... as so many things (also, sigh) in this election.

    Parent

    Well Said (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Anc260 on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 04:57:23 AM EST
    This site is mostly pro-Hillary, but I don't often see Sanders supporters being "pilloried." People are snarky from time to time (myself included), but I don't think that pro-Sanders opinions are discouraged.

    Parent
    Pro Sanders policy details (5.00 / 4) (#168)
    by smott on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 11:24:36 AM EST
    Would be positively encouraged, not pilloried.

    The main difficulty with Sanders I sense here is that a) he's a one note tune, and b) even the details of the one-note signature issue, amazingly appear not to have been thought out, and cannot be credibly described, as was seen in the NYDN interview.

    You can be pro Bernie, you can love Bernie. But if there's nothing but emotion (liking him, disliking Clinton or whatever ) then yes, your opinions will be less well received.

    I'm also sensing (yes just MO) that Sanders is something of an arrogant thin-skinned guy.  Perhaps that is Weaver stirring the pot...but there was enormous irony in Clinton criticizing Sanders (carefully so - and refusing three times to cross the "unqualified" line) in relatively moderate terms "not doing his homework" and Sanders response was, in fact, NOT to do his homework, read the headline and NOT the details, get angry, and stomp all over the line that Clinton pointedly refused to cross. Much to the benefit of the GOP.

    Clinton continues to take the high road calling it silly ( " I've been called many things but unqualified isn't one of them"). While Weaver doubled-down on it.

    And should Clinton get the nom, you can bet that Bernie quote is going to be on an endless loop in every GOP ad.

    It was thin-skinned, it was angry,  it was shallow and uninformed, and for a career pol like Sanders, it was simply idiotic.

    Parent

    I heard Howard Fineman (none / 0) (#174)
    by sallywally on Sun Apr 10, 2016 at 02:47:29 PM EST
    saying twice on Tweety's show that "Bernie Sanders is not a nice guy! Bernie Sanders is not a nice guy!" Teeety was talking over him so he never got to explain. That went beyond curmudgeon or even thin-skinned.

    Parent
    Well you can say it I guess (none / 0) (#175)
    by smott on Sun Apr 10, 2016 at 04:42:53 PM EST
    But you have to show it also.
    The press has been very kind to Sanders and I increasingly sense they have been hiding his "not nice" side.

    But it's starting to slip through.

    Parent

    Not to worry (none / 0) (#12)
    by ding7777 on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 09:42:42 AM EST
    If Pittsburgh and Philly go for Hillary, she will win PA.

    Parent
    I don't see (none / 0) (#19)
    by jbindc on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 11:02:51 AM EST
    Sanders supporters being pillored for being Sanders supporters.  I see them get pillored for repeating Sanders / right wing talking points and generally BS comments.

    The fact that they are spewing words from Karl Rove's American Crossroads really does make one question everything they say.

    Parent

    Kinda rich... (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 11:14:49 AM EST
    coming from the commenter accused of spewing Romney's words last time the circus was in town.

    Parent
    How disappointing (none / 0) (#77)
    by jbindc on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 07:16:17 AM EST
    You've joined the jondee band of making things up.

    Parent
    And your doing quest vocals (none / 0) (#181)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 10:36:34 AM EST
    in the Jim band of making things up about people makings things up.

    Parent
    Anybody else digging... (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 09:23:07 AM EST
    the new Bonnie Raitt record?  The single "Gypsy In Me" is infectious, it's been getting a lot of play on my local go-to college radio station Fordham's WFUV.  

    Bonnie lives in my home town (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 05:45:13 PM EST
    ...and a longtime friend (Mike Finnegan) plays in her band.

    She is a fan of the band I was the roadie for, and I met her at a performance when she barged right into the dressing room, where of course she was warmly welcomed.

    Having seen her on TV, I always wondered why she played such a huge guitar.  Turns out the guitar is normal sized, but she is tiny.  She also uses profanity exceptionally well in conversation, which made me wonder what she says when she's mad!

    Parent

    I had the good luck to see her at Red Rocks (none / 0) (#148)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 08:09:39 PM EST
    from the 3rd or 4th row, and she is indeed tiny.  It was a joint gig with Bruce Hornsby, Shawn Colvin and Jackson Browne back in maybe 2000, on a really cool evening. I remember she was so little and wearing a big jacket trying to sing and play. She delivered though! Loved it.

    Parent
    I'll have to check it out (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 06:30:05 PM EST
    Seriously, I thought she had retired. (none / 0) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:43:05 PM EST
    I'm glad to see that's not the case. I'll have to check out her latest offering.

    Oh, and before I forget -- RIP, Merle Haggard, who passed away on the road this week in his tour bus at age 79. I've never been a country music fan in general, but over the last decade or so, I've really come to appreciate individual C/W artists such as Haggard, Willie Nelson and Loretta Lynn. And I really have to admire a guy who lived life on his own terms and died doing what he loved.

    Adios, Merle.

    Parent

    And speaking of great radio stations, ... (none / 0) (#66)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 10:28:11 PM EST
    ... one of my old favorites, the legendary KFOG-FM in San Francisco, has just been completely gutted of its on-air personalities and turned "jockless" by its owner, Cumulus Media. Each and every one of them, many of whom had been with KFOG for 15-20 years or more, were called into the office on March 31, summarily terminated and then escorted off the premises.

    Cumulus took rather a gratuitous swipe at KFOG's longtime "Fogheads" the other day by insisting that the station "just wasn't cutting it," and is now promising an "evolution" at KFOG -- which will probably consist of the same canned and pre-programmed commercial "alternative rock" they pipe in to Honolulu's KPOI-FM, which they similarly bought and looted three years ago.

    With KFOG's demise, real-life terrestrial radio is now officially dead. Somewhere along the way, our public airwaves were subdivided and turned into the broadcast equivalent of Stepford, a bland and soulless radio community where you can count on hearing pretty much the same damned tunes over and again, any time and anywhere, no matter your locale or what station you've got on the dial.

    And that's just really sad.

    Parent

    I'll check it out - been meaning to for a while (none / 0) (#126)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 04:30:29 PM EST
    Thanks for the stamp of approval.  For a while after 'Nick of Time ' her records got a little formulaic. It was a great formula so I went along for a while, but then I stopped buying them the moment they dropped.  Nick of Time is still one of my all time favorite albums.  time to check back in with Bonnie!

    Parent
    Scott, wassup @ Houston Zoo? (none / 0) (#32)
    by fishcamp on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 03:27:39 PM EST
    Ladies are fighting for parking places...pulling hair, afraid to hit or get hit.  What could be next, and it's not even summer yet.

    FC, what's up w/the 800 lb. FL (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 04:32:22 PM EST
    alligator eating the farmer's cows and paying the ultimate price?

    Parent
    Oculus, that had to b a crocodile (none / 0) (#46)
    by fishcamp on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:00:05 PM EST
    since gaters don't get that large.  They eat whatever comes their way.  Last evening I noticed some people across my lagoon canal, watching something under their dock.  With my trusty binos I saw four small crocks lurking.  These are less than 100 lbs., I think.  No night diving at fishcamp

    Parent
    I think (none / 0) (#53)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:43:35 PM EST
    I would pass on the day diving also

    Parent
    It was an alligator, fishcamp. (none / 0) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:49:07 PM EST
    Further, it was 15 feet long and over 800 lbs. He was caught on a ranch near Lake Okeechobee. Here's the article with the photos to prove it.

    Parent
    News To Me... (none / 0) (#37)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 04:49:17 PM EST
    ... but pretty stupid S.  I do like the guy having to hold back the other woman.

    How anyone can be mad at the chance of spending a day outside this week, it's like perfect outside, 70's, no humidity, nice breeze.  Perfect zoo week.

    The way the zoo is set-up, I bet they ran into each other 5 or 6 times inside, even if they tried not to.


    Parent

    Bill Clinton stands up to Black Lives Matter (none / 0) (#38)
    by McBain on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 05:13:19 PM EST
    Link
    One protester's sign said "black youth are not super predators," and Clinton then appeared to respond to that.

    "I don't know how you would characterize the gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack, sent them out onto the street to murder other African-American children," Clinton said. "Maybe you thought they were good citizens, she didn't. She didn't. You are defending the people who kill the lives you say matter. Tell the truth. You are defending the people who cause young people to go out and take guns."

    I'm not defending the 1994 crime bill but I forgot how good he is at turning criticism around.

    "I don't know how you would characterize the gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack, sent them out onto the street to murder other African-American children," Clinton said. "Maybe you thought they were good citizens, she didn't. She didn't. You are defending the people who kill the lives you say matter. Tell the truth. You are defending the people who cause young people to go out and take guns."


    I almost hate to mention this, McBain, (3.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:01:49 PM EST
    but 99.9% of the increase in the U.S. prison population, something that can be laid at the feet of Saints Bill and Hill, the two for the price of one presidency, were not 13 year old "superpredators."

    Parent
    Or (none / 0) (#82)
    by jbindc on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 08:12:54 AM EST
    No Mention of the... (none / 0) (#111)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 12:47:07 PM EST
    ... 100,000 additional police officers & $10B($16B today) for prisons.

    Seriously, that analysis barely even covered the funding incentives from the Fed.

    The Clintons have also pulled back from the 1994 crime law. Bill Clinton conceded the law went too far. Hillary Clinton said of the 1980s and '90s anti-crime policies, "I think that a lot was done that went further than it needed to go and so now we are facing problems with mass incarceration."

    I wouldn't say 99%, but it was definitely a contributing factor.

    Parent

    Since itit is mostly state law (none / 0) (#169)
    by jbindc on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 11:39:52 AM EST
    And state prisons, not federal, I woukd say it's nowhere near close to that number. And since the majority if people in federal orison are there fir violent crimes, not as liberal blog like to say fir "victimless" drug offenses, then I can't imagine who would actualky say, "Yeah, open up the doors and let everyone out," (which would still be a tiny fraction of the total prison population).

    And as the article points out, liberals like to leave out the parts they like - the funding to curb Violence Against Women, for example.

    Yes, there were some bad results from this bill, but no, someone doesn't get to be snarky and say Bill and Hillary are 99% responsible for all the bad stuff.

    I call bull $hit.

    Parent

    The Bill Finaced Local Cops... (none / 0) (#177)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 09:52:21 AM EST
    ... and built tons of prisons, but it awesome to see you argue something you clearly disagree with, that mass incarceration is a bad thing.

    I will take it, if your support on HRC has you arguing that there are way too many people locked up for BS, even if you need to air quote it, that is real progress.


    Parent

    Oh, No, Mr. Bill! (3.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Peter G on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 09:41:27 PM EST
    He was in Philly stumping for Hillary. Speaking to an African-American audience in a church setting. He should be out there advancing her positions, not defending his own legacy, and particularly not one of his own worst errors. Hillary is not bound to accept responsibility for everything her husband did or advocated when he was President, and she shouldn't. She has distanced herself from his failed anti-crime policies, in particular, and he does her no favors by doubling down on the old myths and scare tactics in this way. More than doubling the prison population and imposing obscenely long, mandatory sentences -- with a vastly disproportionate impact on young Black men -- is not what caused the crime rate to come down. Read yourself some Michelle Alexander, Mr. Bill.

    Parent
    Agreed. (3.00 / 2) (#112)
    by KeysDan on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 12:50:50 PM EST
    Mrs. Clinton's family should not be seen as "attack dogs" or, in this case, President Clinton futilely engaging a deaf ear to deserved criticism. Let history speak to his legacy. Moreover, it did not seem as if the former president gets BLM.  President Clinton has since expressed his regrets as well he should.

    President Clinton remains well-respected by Democrats.   His role should be limited to his presence at rallies and campaign events. Introductions and support for down ticket candidates.   Perhaps, discussing Mrs. Clinton's policies, but, even then, it would be better in my view, for him to speak in platitudes--and do not refer to Mrs. Clinton with pronouns.

    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Nemi on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 07:18:37 AM EST
    What bothers me about this whole episode is how it hurts her - on top of the timing being really bad - and how it makes him look unpresidential in the extreme.

    To watch him loosing his cool seen from the front was bad enough, but seen from behind, showing how small an audience he actually had was almost worse. Why put himself in that situation? Doesn't he know that the subject brought up is one of the Bernie Bro's favorite (among several of course) talking/attacking points?

    So on Twitter the twitterers had a field day ridiculing him and among other things the optics comparing the showing to the huge crowds at Bernie Sanders' rallies. Because to a 'Bernie Bro' what seems to matter most is the optics.

    The former president really should be above putting himself in a situation that could potentially degrade and humiliate him, not to mention hurt Hillary Clinton.

    After the episode Bill Clinton was seen lifting up a baby. Maybe he should stick to that, and to metaphorically lift up his wife.

    Parent

    I do think Bill Clinton knows (none / 0) (#114)
    by christinep on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 02:23:37 PM EST
    how to speak.  But, even he makes a mistake every now & then.  Who doesn't?  And, since we & he learn from our mistakes, I'm sure that he won't err in that regard again.  Let him speak; his speeches are rarely problematic.  In fact, he remains more persuasive than just about any politician in the country.  (Trans: Let's not overreact.)

    Parent
    My thoughts, (none / 0) (#123)
    by KeysDan on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 04:04:48 PM EST
    I do not believe, are an overreaction to this issue. Rather, it is what i believe to be a better strategic use of Bill Clinton's prestige and standing. I made a similar comment a few months ago when President Clinton's remarks were easily misconstrued and when Chelsea criticized Sanders on Medicare and Obamacare. But, yes, let him speak, but, be cautious with the speech.

    Parent
    The (none / 0) (#146)
    by FlJoe on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 07:14:55 PM EST
    problem the Clinton's face is that they are forced to re-litigate the 90's again and again, facing the challenges from the right and left, with the media all too ready to join in. With all of them taking a misguided, misinterpreted or even fabricated views of the actual history of that time.

    I don't think anyone gets BLM, I'm not sure BLM get themselves. They are a bit too confrontational, especially with people like the Clinton's who have proven to lend an ear before, even in 1994

    Can you say more about the coalition of black activists and leaders who supported the '94 crime bill? Who were they?  

    There were different levels. On one level, there was grassroots mobilization of the community, particularly by black pastors. There was a group of influential black pastors who signed a letter encouraging the Congressional Black Caucus to support the bill. And then later, on top of that, black elected officials, who portrayed themselves at various points as uncomfortable with some of these laws, went along anyway because of pressure coming from their communities, and because they also realized the problem was so bad.

    link, While BLM does have a legitimate beef in the here and now they have no right sitting in judgement of people who were facing much more dire conditions..
    There's an interesting quote from the letter those pastors wrote to the Congressional Black Caucus: "While we do not agree with every provision in the crime bill, we do believe and emphatically support the bill's goal to save our communities, and most importantly, our children.
    There is more than a hint of BLM in that statement and an explicit admission, that on paper at least, the bill had noble goals.

    I'm pretty sure that the point Bill was trying make, he blew it with his tone and his unartful rhetoric but he was correct.

    Parent

    To be quite honest (1.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Nemi on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 06:02:32 AM EST
    I cringed when I saw that clip. He comes across, sorry to say, as totally unhinged.

    All these outbursts stemming from hurt male feelings, get out of the way! ... Please!

    Parent

    Why the troll rating (none / 0) (#120)
    by Nemi on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 03:40:25 PM EST
    JanaM? Care to explain?

    Parent
    Those rating (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by KeysDan on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 04:07:19 PM EST
    seems to be JanaM's TL contribution. (now I need to watch for incoming "ls".)

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#64)
    by linea on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 10:18:37 PM EST
    She asked Bill to stump for her AND she wants to distance herself from his anti-crime policies?

    I thought the crime rate decreased when there are more jobs. But there are fewer jobs. So if the crime rate has gone down than why cant the high incarceration rate be credited? Not saying that if something "works" that it's moral. Just asking.

    Parent

    PS (none / 0) (#65)
    by linea on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 10:20:58 PM EST
    it's written sans-hyphen {smile}

    Parent
    21st century sista souljah moment (none / 0) (#44)
    by pitachips on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 06:41:50 PM EST
    Not surprised even one bit considering his history.

    Parent
    Hardly (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:21:25 PM EST
    He's talking about people killing the exact same people who BLM says matter. Gangs killing people and using minors to do it is not okay in most people's book and people tend to forget that the legislation was supported by the very same people who were victims of the gangs.

    Parent
    Oh boy (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by pitachips on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 09:49:48 PM EST
    BLM was not a movement started to fight for the rights of gang leaders. His attempt to suggest that supporting BLM is equivalent to supporting gang leaders who send kids "hopped up on crack" to commit murders reads as if it came straight out of Brietbart.

    He sounded like he thought it was 1993 all over again and that he needed to scare up some moderate/suburban white voters.

    Parent

    BLM started because of the many misconceptions (none / 0) (#69)
    by McBain on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 11:53:27 PM EST
    of the George Zimmerman trial.  I agree with Bill Clinton's response..... the BLM supporters aren't really interested in the truth.  

    Parent
    Thanks for the insight (none / 0) (#81)
    by pitachips on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 08:12:38 AM EST
    Yet another person who knows nothing but presumes to speak for people of color.

    Parent
    Now (none / 0) (#90)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:42:12 AM EST
    you are not reading what I was saying. The people who were VICTIMS were the ones that wanted the legislation back in the 1990's much like BLM is representing VICTIMS.

    And one thing that you guys never do is go after Joe Biden who was the king of this kind of stuff.

    Y'all are either so blinded by hatred or condescension you can't rationally debate.

    Parent

    Let's remember why ... (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:39:48 PM EST
    the so-called "Sista Soujah moment" was noted at the time. Because it's almost become the reverse of what it was.

    In 1992 Clinton was unique among white politicians, especially white southerners, in his ease in talking about and to African Americans. He even said the civil rights movement was what drove him to become a politician. A very new position for a southern politician.

    He got praise for this from pundits. But he was also attacked for it. The question was bandied: Would he ever "take on" an African American on any issue?

    This is the climate in which his Sister Souljah comments occurred. And he was initially mostly praised for them.

    So that moment is more indicative of the racism that existed in society and the mainstream media at the time, than a failing on Clinton's part.

    This isn't to suggest he deserves no criticism for the event. He does. But the culture and the media deserve more.

    Parent

    not clear about the in ident (none / 0) (#58)
    by linea on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 08:58:19 PM EST
    Is "Sister Souljah" a reference I should know? I don't understand the implecations of the BLM-Bill exchange. I can't imagine a poliy-wonk analysis of incarceration policies of the Clinton era would affect African American support for Hillary.

    Parent
    You're right to believe "a policy-wonk ... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by scribe on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 07:40:34 AM EST
    analysis of incarceration policies of the Clinton era would affect African American support for Hillary", but not for the reason you might think.

    The long and the short of it is that African Americans have nowhere else to go, on the presidential level, and both they and the Dem candidates know it.  Racism rules in American politics and they'll take HRC because they perceive hers to be the least pernicious.  But all she cares about are her corporate funders, don't kid yourself, and the minute their interests conflict with the interests of African-Americans, the latter will lose.

    And if you doubt that, consider whether race relations are now better, or worse, than before Obama took office.  A good argument can be made for "worse, much worse".  He picked the corporate side every time, unless it was cost-free to do otherwise (or a long-game analysis would show Corporate America  benefitting).

    Parent

    Anyone Who Views What BC... (none / 0) (#107)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 12:27:35 PM EST
    ... said and is a democrat should be ashamed by his remarks.

    I love BC, and have mentioned it many times here, but that is a patronizing rant lecturing black folks about how they should feel.  There are a thousand ways to answer a comment about 'black youth are not super predators'.  Like 'You are right, black youth are not predators, both Hillary and I agree.', but BC decided that if the stereotype fits:

    gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack, sent them out onto the street to murder other African-American children

    The big dog has lost it, he hasn't delivered the stuff he once had in years.  And now he's just a hack acting like the crime bill and welfare reform were good for the back community and if black folks would just do the research, they would stop whining about black lives.

    Let's hope he's not so dismissive should he get asked about welfare reform.  I really don't want to hear BC lecture black folks about welfare queens & cadillacs, and how his legislation changed the game on black poverty.

    He is suppose to be supporting his wife, not defending his legislation that maybe was a good idea at the time, but clearly if he had a do-over wouldn't get passed, or at least that is what I used to think before yesterdays outburst.

    Parent

    He said what needed to be said (none / 0) (#116)
    by McBain on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 02:53:48 PM EST
    The protesters, as usual, were out of line.  He made his point in a way that wasn't insulting or racist.  

    Parent
    Says the White Guy... (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 03:32:12 PM EST
    ... who generally dismissed black people.  Noted.

    Parent
    Says this black guy who agrees with Bill (5.00 / 4) (#121)
    by vicndabx on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 03:58:05 PM EST
    This is only an issue if one believes Bill and Democrats that supported the bill were acting w/malicious intent.  I.e. you believe they wanted to break up families and incarcerate large numbers of black men.  I don't believe that.  They did what could be done in the US political climate at the time.  

    People can't really believe a whole host of social programs would've been passed by the Congress at the time.

    What is important is not what was done then; except to learn from what didn't work, but move forward on better solutions in light of this new found support from those weren't so inclined previously.

    Parent

    Well Except This isn't About the Bill... (none / 0) (#129)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 04:51:36 PM EST
    ... it's what Clinton said yesterday.  And I am not going to argue with you, but Clinton basically did everything but apologize for the comments today.

    Congrats, two of out most staunch republican commenters agree with you so much that they gave you 5's.

    Parent

    Apologize for what? (none / 0) (#142)
    by McBain on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 06:17:43 PM EST
    BLM interrupted him.  They didn't want to let him respond.  They were rude and obnoxious.  Other politicians like Bernie Sanders haven't had the courage or skill to respond properly.  BC did.
     

    Parent
    Now that (none / 0) (#143)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 07:10:00 PM EST
    Just cedes the argument.
    Your best retort is to say that 2 Republican commenters agree with you, well, news flash,

    I judge by the statement, not who is saying it. W
    When your last resort is to attack who is saying something, and not the content of the statement, you have already lost the argument.

    I tend to agree with the statement

    Bill and Democrats that supported the bill were acting w/malicious intent.  I.e. you believe they wanted to break up families and incarcerate large numbers of black men.  I don't believe that.  They did what could be done in the US political climate at the time.  


    Parent
    Bill Clinton is tone-deaf (none / 0) (#136)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 05:40:08 PM EST
    ...on this one.  We are well aware that in places where poverty is endemic and there are no real jobs, there is violence.

    Black Lives Matter is not about Black people getting killed by criminals, it is specifically about unarmed Black men and boys being killed by POLICE.  

    We have too many examples (Freddie Gray, Jonathan Ferrell) in which an unarmed Black man died at the hands of police even though no crime had been committed.  We have many more in which the "crime" was a minor traffic offense (Walter Scott, my friend Chaka Grayson).

    It's not a new thing.  None of these cases against the officers would have resulted in charges if there had not been video of the event.  Black people have known about this for 150 years, but until video made police violence against Black men and boys impossible to deny, cases were never brought.  After all, who ya gonna believe, a police officer or a kid who has had a couple of misdemeanor arrests?  Now we know that "the kid" was in many cases the one telling the truth, and the one who suffered.

    Parent

    Perhaps so (none / 0) (#144)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 07:12:01 PM EST
    Black Lives Matter is not about Black people getting killed by criminals, it is specifically about unarmed Black men and boys being killed by POLICE.

    But wouldn't they save more black lives if they also focused on black people getting killed by criminals.

    Save a lot more lives.

    Just a thought

    Parent

    I don't think BLM is really about saving lives (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by McBain on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 08:18:37 PM EST
    I agree with this statement by Fljoe...
    I don't think anyone gets BLM, I'm not sure BLM get themselves. They are a bit too confrontational, especially with people like the Clinton's who have proven to lend an ear before, even in 1994

    My best guess is they are about getting attention for perceived racism. The problem is they often pick incidents that had nothing to do with racism like the deaths of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown.

    A better movement would be one geared towards the injustices black people receive when charged with a crime..... poor legal representation, bad DAs and judges, biased juries.  While I think those problems have more to do with class than race, a "Black Rights Matter" movement would be more appropriate.

    Parent

    Ray Lewis (none / 0) (#147)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 07:26:54 PM EST
    Feels like I do

    http://tinyurl.com/jguz8v3

    CREDIT: Instagram
    Former Baltimore Raven Ray Lewis posted a passionate 10-minute video to his Facebook page in which he questioned how the Black Lives Matter movement could ignore black-on-black crime.

    "I'm trying to figure out why no one is paying attention to black men killing black men," Lewis said.

    READ Watch Michael Jordan Congratulate Allen Iverson On His Hall Of Fame Induction

    The video, which received about 43,000 likes and has been viewed more than three million times, was created to call attention to the recent surge of violence in Chicago.

    "Why do we always find ourselves half the victims," the 40 year old said. "Why do we always find ourselves half the victims, and now we have the separation once again that we're being victimized because of one bad white cop, two bad white cops, three bad white cops, killing a young black brother. But every day we have black-on-black crime, killing each other? Police in Chicago reported 677 shootings this year. Last year, it was 359. The March murder rate rose by 29 percent, but we're not rioting in the streets [when] black on black killing each other,


    Parent
    If it wasn't so sad (none / 0) (#155)
    by CoralGables on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:04:43 PM EST
    I'd laugh at Ray Lewis taking a stand on this issue.

    Parent
    Why (none / 0) (#159)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 05:22:45 AM EST
    If you are referring to the obstruction of justice charge he plead guilty to, after being charged with a double murder, that was 15 years ago.
    15 years can change , has changed many people.

    I find that a gratuitous slap, and mainly because you dislike his take on BLM

    Parent

    You don't have a clue about me (none / 0) (#164)
    by CoralGables on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 09:24:28 AM EST
    And you have never read a single comment from me that ever mentioned BLM one way or the other.

    I don't give a damn about any of his stances. I'm sure the families of the two victims he came to a financial settlement with don't much care either.

    Parent

    Then (none / 0) (#165)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 09:27:30 AM EST
    Why is it so sad that Ray Lewis is taking a stand on BLM?

    Parent
    Seriously? (none / 0) (#166)
    by CoralGables on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 09:39:32 AM EST
    I can't help you.

    Parent
    Thought so (none / 0) (#170)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 12:00:07 PM EST
    Thank you

    Parent
    Not all that surprising.. (none / 0) (#128)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 04:48:08 PM EST
    Bubba, for all he's been through, has never taken criticism all that well..

    The writer William Grieder still tells the story about Clinton getting all belicose and red-faced and practically having him bodily thrown out of the Whitehouse, when Greider questioned to Clinton's face the longterm value of NAFTA and other Free Trade agreements for the country.

    Parent

    Changing of the Guard (none / 0) (#55)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 07:53:09 PM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/jzmzxvh

    The Atlantic

    Bernie Sanders's resounding victory in Tuesday's Wisconsin primary cements his status as one of the Democratic Party's most successful insurgents ever, even as it leaves him still facing a steep uphill climb to overtake Hillary Clinton for the presidential nomination.

    The math favors Clinton, who can clinch a first-ballot nomination by winning about one-third of the delegates available in the remaining five caucuses and 16 primaries through June 7. But, even if he falters, Sanders has triggered dynamics that could reshape his party for years. Most important, his campaign is crystallizing the political emergence of the massive Millennial Generation, which is poised to pass the Baby Boom by 2020 as the electorate's largest voting block.

    about Bernie still running... (none / 0) (#59)
    by linea on Thu Apr 07, 2016 at 09:17:23 PM EST
    aren't he optics better that Hillary wins against real competition rather than it being overtly apparent that the DNC cleared the field? Most people aren't policy-wonks like you people and don't really get involved until after the Parties name their nominee. I don't feel concern that Bernie is "bad mouthing" Hillary has any impact whatsoever in the general. Am I wrong?

    Parent
    This is the impact: (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 12:43:30 AM EST
    Everything you do in electoral politics takes money, time and energy.

    And that's all well and good when you only have one campaign in front of you.  But it becomes complicated when you have primaries and a general.

    All the money, time and energy you devote to the primaries is money, time and energy you cannot devote to the general.

    How much harm that causes isn't quantifiable. But it's concerning to anyone running a campaign.

    Parent

    Saying things like (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by jbindc on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 08:16:22 AM EST
    "She's unqualified to be president" is a Republican ad waiting to be written, so yes, that's harmful (besides untrue and petulant).

    Arguing competing ideas, visions, and details, is not.

    See the difference?

    Parent

    Yes, and the video clip (none / 0) (#99)
    by KeysDan on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 11:09:06 AM EST
    I saw showed Sanders' audience loudly cheering with just the first part: "she's unqualified to be president," before Sanders added because Wall St, etc.  It seems as if the Bernie supporters believe that winning the Democratic primary means winning the election.

    Parent
    You know what I am starting to hate (none / 0) (#149)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 08:14:38 PM EST
    ...and I remember hating it in 2008 from the opposite side...is the framing that 'the math' favors or does not favor someone. It's not math. It is people. The upcoming states are those where there are not enough people that will vote for him.  Talking about it as math makes it sound so impersonal.

    Parent
    Going Poblano (none / 0) (#150)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 08:16:59 PM EST
    Rings a bell...you lost me! (none / 0) (#152)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 08:30:15 PM EST
    I'm old...I can barely remember if I used a token or a card last year....

    Parent
    Nate Silver used to be Poblano (none / 0) (#160)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 06:47:13 AM EST
    And I remember when Armando had it out with Poblano  and called him a hack. That all sort of fascinated me because I tend to meander around and find some uses for Poblano. But Poblano is about counting and assessing the math and Armando is about counting and assessing the people.

    Parent
    Oh that's right, thanks! (none / 0) (#197)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 07:40:07 PM EST
    I'm for both math and people, but not for describing one as the other!

    Parent
    Never go full Poblano? (none / 0) (#161)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 06:49:43 AM EST
    It's an accompanying flavor?

    Parent
    Watching W. this morning (none / 0) (#162)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 07:05:50 AM EST
    For about the 5th time. It always makes me feel better during an election cycle ;)

    Parent
    Where is the Plan (none / 0) (#74)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 05:53:14 AM EST
    To address the Debt?

    http://tinyurl.com/jvexp3y

    According to the Congressional Budget Office's (CBO) March 2016 projections, the U.S. debt is $15 trillion and expected to rise to $23.6 trillion in the next ten years. The 50-year average of debt as a percentage of the U.S. economy or gross domestic product (GDP) is 38 percent. Today the U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio is 74 percent--in other words, the federal debt is equal to nearly three quarters of what the entire American economy produces in one year.

    In testimony, Richard Haass, a former top State Department official and foreign policy expert, warned of a "slow motion" crisis in which the United States, through long-term inaction, is eventually forced to implement severe remedies for reducing unsustainable debt levels that would harm American prosperity and security. He further identified a variety of strategic risks for the U.S. from this scenario: higher interest rates to finance U.S. debt, diminished resources for investment at home or abroad, reduced flexibility to respond to unforeseen security and economic events, instability created by the absence of U.S. leadership internationally, and the potential demise of the U.S. dollar as the reserve currency of the world.

    "Our inability to deal with our debt challenge will detract from the appeal of the American political and economic model," said Haass. "It will make others less likely to want to emulate us and more wary of depending on us as it will raise questions about this country's ability to come together and take difficult decisions. The result would be a world that is less democratic and increasingly less deferential to U.S. concerns in matters of security."

    The plan (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 08:37:16 AM EST
    ...is to elect Democratic presidents.  

    HISTORY SHOWS that the economy does better, and the deficit is reduced ONLY when a Democrat is in the WH.

    Remember the last time the government balanced the budget?  Year was 2000, and Clinton was president.  The next guy promptly exploded the deficit with a trillion dollar war financed by my Social Security savings.  Well, whatever was left of the SS savings after Reagan looted it in the '80s, while also tripling the national debt.  (After robbing the SS fund, Republicans complain that it's broke!)

    But Mr. Obama fought back, reducing the Bush deficit by 2/3.  You would think the GOP would congratulate him, but Republicans treat the deficit like the weather.  They complain about it while doing nothing to change it.

    All a matter of record, but Republicans do not "do" facts because they have a liberal bias.

    Parent

    Not a good plan (none / 0) (#125)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 04:21:47 PM EST
    Looking for specifics, Obama  Bush comparison shows me nothing, just more of the same

    According to the U.S. Treasury, the "total public debt outstanding" on the day Obama took office was $10.6 trillion. As of March 4, the total public debt was $19 trillion. That's an increase of about 79 percent.

    For comparison, on the day George W. Bush first took office, the total public debt was $5.7 trillion. Considering the $10.6 trillion in debt when Obama was sworn in, that means the debt increased under Bush's tenure by about 86 percent.

    Parent

    But wait, there's more (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 05:26:48 PM EST
    We have hundreds of military bases all over the world, which means American taxpayers are subsidizing the military of lots of other countries.  Freed by the American taxpayers from having to pay for their own defense, they get high-speed trains, a month of paid vacation every year, and universal health care, which of course we can't afford.

    In effect, American taxpayers are paying taxes in Japan, Germany, England, Korea, The Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc., etc. for hundreds of military installations.

    We could DESTROY the deficit by refusing to pay taxes for other countries any more.  If they want a base there, let them pay us for it, and we should make a profit on those payments.

    After that, we tax some of the corporations (GE, Verizon Boeing, Bank of America, etc.) that pay less in taxes for their billions in profit than I do on my Social Security.

    How's that for a concrete plan?

    Parent

    That one (none / 0) (#145)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 07:13:35 PM EST
    Has a lot more appeal.

    I have been saying that for years, that the US has subsidized Europe's social net

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    Congrats on saying Trump is saying (none / 0) (#157)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:18:57 PM EST
    Now who will act to stop it?

    Trump or Hillary??

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    Sorry (none / 0) (#167)
    by FlJoe on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 11:04:14 AM EST
    Trevor, but you are confusing the deficit with the debt, do your homework! How can you argue if you don't do your homework?

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    No (none / 0) (#171)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 12:07:17 PM EST
    I am talking about the National Debt,
    http://tinyurl.com/hm5jfye

    As the national debt increases even larger, there is less money to spend each year, add in SS and Medicare/Medicaid and defense, and soon there will not be much left for anything else.

    How much do we pay in interest?

    Interest on the debt is now and is projected to continue being the fastest growing area of federal spending in the coming years, outpacing even Medicare or Social Security. In 2015, the U.S. spent $223 billion, or 6 percent of the federal budget, paying for interest on the debt.

    In recent years, interest rates have been at historic lows. As they return closer to normal levels, the amount the government spends on interest will rise substantially. The Congressional Budget Office projects the interest rate on ten-year Treasury bonds will climb from slightly over 2 percent today to over 4 percent by 2020. As a result, interest payments will double to almost $500 billion. By 2030, interest will represent over 14 percent of the federal budget and continue to climb. This represents money that cannot be spent on other government priorities such as education, national defense, research or infrastructure.

    If interest rates rise even higher, our payments will be even greater--a one percentage point increase costs the country an additional staggering $1.7 trillion over a decade. If interest rates returned to the record-high levels of the 1980s, the country would pay $6 trillion more in interest.

    What are the effects of a high national debt?

    The effects of the national debt on the economy are far from abstract. High levels of federal debt will cause:

    Higher costs of living: Large amounts of debt mean higher interest rates on everything from credit cards to mortgage loans.
    Slower wage growth: In normal economic times, every dollar an investor spends buying government debt is a dollar not invested elsewhere in the economy. That is, high debt "crowds out" more productive investments, leading to slower economic growth and lower wages.
    Generational inequality: By not making responsible debt choices, we are placing higher debt burdens on our children and threatening their standard of living and retirement.
    Reduced fiscal flexibility: Our debt levels doubled between 2008 and 2013 from 35 percent of GDP to over 70 percent, a result of and in response to the Great Recession. We can't afford another recession. With an already high debt, the government has less room to respond to future crises such as international events or economic downturns.
    Fiscal crises: Unchecked debt growth could eventually lead to a fiscal crisis, as recently occurred across Europe. At that point, investors in U.S. debt will demand higher returns, driving up interest payments, and leading to a debt situation spiraling out of control.


     

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    Exactly (none / 0) (#172)
    by FlJoe on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 12:17:52 PM EST
    you were talking about the debt in a non-sequitur reply to a point being made about the deficit.  A standard typical right wing distortion, that belies ignorance.

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    The National Debt (none / 0) (#173)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Apr 09, 2016 at 02:07:58 PM EST
    Is not a right wing talking point.

    It will affect everyone, of both political persuasions.

    About time everyone realizes it.

    It cannot continue to double, as it has over the past 8 years

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    Oh jeez (none / 0) (#86)
    by sallywally on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 08:57:25 AM EST
    Bernie has accepted the invitation of Pope Francis to visit him at the Vatican.

    BTD, tweeted that Bernie should include (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by vml68 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 02:19:09 PM EST
    trips to Israel and Puerto Rico, too. NY trifecta!!
    Got a laugh out of me :-)

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    A few days before the NY primary (none / 0) (#87)
    by Towanda on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:38:39 AM EST
    he heads out of the country.  New Yorkers, tell us:  Is there a huge Catholic vote in the state that this will help?  Or is this conceding the state?

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    Not a (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:50:02 AM EST
    NYer but I would imagine it's a wash because the Pope even though more forward than previous ones still doesn't support women in leadership roles nor gay rights. How many Bernie supporters does this run away? If he were running as a Republican going to see the pope probably would gain him votes.

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    The Catholic vote is more complex than that. (none / 0) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 10:27:08 AM EST
    U.S. Catholics tend to lean Democratic, but the numbers are close. Further within the U.S. Catholic community, party preference breaks relative to race and ethnicity in a manner which also occurs in the electorate as a whole. The Catholic vote broke narrowly for Obama in 2012, 51-48%. Nearly 60% of white Catholics supported Mitt Romney, while Hispanic Catholics went for Obama by a 3-1 margin.

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    Oops (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by jbindc on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 10:55:10 AM EST
    Not starting off too well

    Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders reached out to obtain his invitation to the Vatican and showed "monumental discourtesy" in the process, a senior Vatican official said.

    "Sanders made the first move, for the obvious reasons," Margaret Archer, president of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, which is hosting the conference Sanders will attend, said in a telephone interview. "I think in a sense he may be going for the Catholic vote but this is not the Catholic vote and he should remember that and act accordingly -- not that he will."



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    Interesting - (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by mm on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 12:06:18 PM EST
    Does this mean we can say he is pandering?

    I thought only the poll watching, cold blooded, calculating Clintons do that.

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    Curmudgeon. (none / 0) (#104)
    by sallywally on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 12:00:50 PM EST
    Not playing well others.

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    Neither... (none / 0) (#188)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 01:31:03 PM EST
    the church-going hard-core NY Catholics tend to be conservative, they don't care for The Pope nor The Bern's social justice message.  They're Trump people.  The ex-Catholics & heathens are more prone to like The Pope & The Bern, all imho.

    So I don't think it will help with hardcore Catholics, but it could help with everybody else on the left in NY.  But generally, I think NY primary voters have already made up their minds at this point, as has the rest of the country.  It boils down to turn-out and how many independents switched their registrations to Dem to vote for Bernie.

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    More bad behavior in teens arrest (none / 0) (#100)
    by McBain on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 11:25:46 AM EST
    another excessive force lawsuit
    In the videos, four women are arguing with Deputy Holton for several minutes and then another deputy arrives on scene. The verbal confrontation continues for several more minutes with the family demanding a female officer.
    Holton then takes down Gabrielle as she is walking away, apparently ignoring his orders to stop.

    Hard to tell what happens during the struggle, but its yet another incident that could have been avoided if people complied.

    Nothing Like a Good Cop... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 11:46:59 AM EST
    ... leaving a teenage girl, possibly a domestic violence victim, bloodied all because she walked away from him.

    Your view of the police is beyond warped.

    One more fine cop who thinks body slamming a 12 year old girl is acceptable behavior.  LINK

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    Comply? (none / 0) (#133)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 05:16:06 PM EST
    I do not "comply" when a police officer directs me to do something he does not have the authority to demand.  Example, when I am asked for ID in a situation where i am not required to provide it, I ask whether I will be arrested if I don't "comply."  The answer, reluctantly given, is no, to which I follow up, "Then why are you asking for it?"  At that point the police officer invariably refuses to speak to me further, which accomplishes my aim of shutting him up and making him leave me alone while I conduct myself in a lawful manner.

    (Reference: Supreme Court Justice Byron "Whizzer" White's concurring opinion in Terry v. Ohio, 1968.  I not only know my rights, I know the case law for them.)

    Despite my standing up for my rights and refusing to comply with unlawful orders from police, I have yet to be arrested, and I am now 70 y.o.  Your patriotism clearly varies.

    Question:  what is the practical difference between failing to stand up for your rights, and not having any rights?

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    Krugman on Sanders (none / 0) (#117)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 03:14:52 PM EST
    It's one thing for the Sanders campaign to point to Hillary Clinton's Wall Street connections, which are real, although the question should be whether they have distorted her positions, a case the campaign has never even tried to make. But recent attacks on Mrs. Clinton as a tool of the fossil fuel industry are just plain dishonest, and speak of a campaign that has lost its ethical moorings.

    Emphasis mine.

    But Mr. Sanders wasn't careful at all, declaring that what he considers Mrs. Clinton's past sins, including her support for trade agreements and her vote to authorize the Iraq war -- for which she has apologized -- make her totally unfit for office.

    This is really bad, on two levels. Holding people accountable for their past is O.K., but imposing a standard of purity, in which any compromise or misstep makes you the moral equivalent of the bad guys, isn't. Abraham Lincoln didn't meet that standard; neither did F.D.R. Nor, for that matter, has Bernie Sanders (think guns).

    In short, purity trolling, not from a supporter, but from the candidate.

    And finally:

    Is Mr. Sanders positioning himself to join the "Bernie or bust" crowd, walking away if he can't pull off an extraordinary upset, and possibly helping put Donald Trump or Ted Cruz in the White House? If not, what does he think he's doing?

    Indeed, what does he think he's doing?

    Purity troll.. (none / 0) (#122)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 04:03:04 PM EST
    I wonder if that specialized term will eventually become a permanent part of the lexicon..

    Defined as anyone who holds Hillary Clinton to the same traditionally valued ethical standards that everyone else on the planet is expected to adhere to.

    Also currently applied to anyone who works on Wall Street, including economist/consultants, who ever openly expresses doubt about the longterm efficacy of lying, stealing, and fraud.

    Parent

    everyone else on the planet? (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by mm on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 04:47:17 PM EST
    Clinton Rules

    1) Everything, no matter how ludicrous-sounding, is worthy of a full investigation by federal agencies, Congress, the "vast right-wing conspiracy," and mainstream media outlets.

    1. Every allegation, no matter how ludicrous, is believable until it can be proven completely and utterly false. And even then, it keeps a life of its own in the conservative media world.

    2. The media assumes that Clinton is acting in bad faith until there's hard evidence otherwise.

    3. Everything is newsworthy because the Clintons are the equivalent of America's royal family.

    4. Everything she does is fake and calculated for maximum political benefit.


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    Everything and always.. (none / 0) (#130)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 04:54:55 PM EST
    were poor Sylva Plath's two favorite words, according to her mother..

    Let's not drive ourselves to the depths of despair..word is there are still a handful of people on Hillary's side..

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    yeah (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by mm on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 05:41:44 PM EST
    so far, around 9 million and counting.

    handful of people on Hillary's side


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    Millions, my dear, (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by christinep on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 05:44:20 PM EST
    millions of people (exceeding all the other presidential candidates) enthusiastically supporting Hillary Clinton.  So ... no need to talk of Ms. Plath and all her demons.

    The Krugman article says it all.  When people--like Sanders--talk in moral terms of good/evil (shades of Bush foreign policy), time to beware for the speaker and the adherent.  By any standard of accuracy or even political hyperbole, Mr. Sanders is revealing an ends-justify-the-means streak so often associated with ideologues and so often leading to the ethical lapses that he is showing.  

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    Actually all this talk about (none / 0) (#179)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 10:26:11 AM EST
    "good vs evil" and "purity" is coming from your side, Christine..

    Suddenly, anyone who holds up for close inspection the record of your favored candidate is a member of the Spanish Inquisition; a misogynistic witch burner obsessed with purity..

    This is another variation on the perennial debate sabotaging tactic  of deflecting attention from any objective evidence by throwing out  red herring accusations about racism, antisemitism, America-hating, and now "purity trolling".


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    Not really, jondee (none / 0) (#191)
    by christinep on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 10:09:46 PM EST
    You sure know how to string words together :)

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    Yesterday... (none / 0) (#132)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 04:56:09 PM EST
    ... same clowns stating that Bernie was contributing to the fraud on WS because he had investments.

    Purity trolls indeed.

    Parent

    These (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by FlJoe on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 08:39:53 PM EST
    clowns did not originally declare Wall Street fraudulent,Bernie did. If Bernie has investments in Wall Street he is by his own "purity test", participating in fraudulent activity, there is no other way to logically parse it.

    Parent
    Which doesn't however (none / 0) (#178)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 10:09:24 AM EST
    make any discussions about fraud on Wall Street utterly irrelevant.

    No matter how much of an utterly verbotten topic, for some unexplained reason, it may be around these quarters lately..

    Parent

    Kinda reminds me of Sartre (none / 0) (#192)
    by christinep on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 10:12:49 PM EST
    Sanders has certainly set his own judgment standards ... over & over ....  In a more prosaic sense, those chickens do come home to roost eventually.

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    And You Are Demanding... (none / 0) (#180)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 10:36:20 AM EST
    ... others take your purity view, beyond being over-simplistic, you have been basically mocking what you perceive as purity, then insisting that others apply it to your satisfaction, or be hypocrites.

    IOW, no matter what anyone who doesn't support Sanders does or says, they are without a doubt, 100% wrong.

    Purity is your term.  The idea that the people who collapsed our economy should be reeled in, is not purity, it is common sense, and the only reason you are using the term is to show the term in bad, therefore the stand is bad.

    You issue that HRC was on the payroll of the folks who collapsed the economy.  So instead of owning up to it, and realizing that is a problem, you are trying to turn it into some silly purity test of her opponent.

    It is your opinion that Sanders cannot go after WS because he has investments, it has nothing to do with purity.

    Parent

    Oh.. (none / 0) (#184)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 10:49:05 AM EST
    give 'em a few more years and they'll be calling the authors of the Endangered Species and Clean Water Acts purity trolls..

    MKS has already called me a purity troll for talking about Kissinger encouraging Nixon's "use anything that flies to kill anything that moves" policy in Cambodia and Laos..

    Parent

    Oh, jondee ... (none / 0) (#193)
    by christinep on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 10:24:33 PM EST
    for many of us, the idea of "purity trolling" or whatever you want to term it is fairly obvious.  It comes down to the bit about taking care not to pass moral judgment--about good & evil--on others with whom you don't agree.  

    Mr. Sanders does seem to have a habit of taking disagreements with his opponents (most lately, Hillary Clinton) and portraying it as a puritan morality play.  At least, that is what I have heard him pronounce continuously (not unlike when W was going around defining good & evil in the world as it judge and juror.)  The problem with those kinds of approaches--as you most certainly are aware--is that the assumption of moral self-righteousness while castigating those who disagree with your political position ultimately has a way of biting the proponent in the backside. FWIW, Sanders has assumed that posture of moral superiority from the get go.  IMO.

    Better to let politics be politics.  The injection of a dimension bordering on religion tends to backfire.

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    Springsteen canceled his NC show this weekend (none / 0) (#156)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 08, 2016 at 09:05:16 PM EST
    because of the anti-LGBTQ law.  Sorry to the fans. Maybe if some of the big CW stars would do the same, some progress would be made.

    btw, are there no news sites that do not pay automatic audio anymore? not even usatoday? I give up even trying to link. Sorry.

    Proof the GOP has Lost All Sense (none / 0) (#186)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Apr 11, 2016 at 10:51:10 AM EST
    NC Mark Walker(R) on The Boss:
    "Bruce is known to be on the radical left," Walker told the publication. "He's got every right to be so, but I consider this a bully tactic. It's like when a kid gets upset and says he's going to take his ball and go home."

    It's been a while since I was in school and played ball, but as I remember it, the bullies aren't the one who take their gear and go home, they are the ones who decide who can play.  The Boss is not the bully in this scenario, lawmakers in NC are.

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