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Friday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 08:35:00 AM EST
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So glad it's Friday. I've got another jail day and am spending all my free hours trying to figure out why my new Dell desktop has a black screen. It's okay in safe mode but I can't even log into it in regular mode. Do they still have computer gurus who make house calls?

James Holmes was found guilty, no suprise there. A shooting of marines by someone born in Kuwait was all I heard on the car today.

El Chapo is still free.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Friday Open Thread | 206 comments (206 topical)
    Univision Poll: Trump in Trouble with Hispanics (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:14:27 AM EST
    Hispanic voters overwhelmingly disapprove of Donald Trump's controversial comments on illegal immigration, according to a new Univision poll.

    Seventy-nine percent of Hispanic voters polled find Trump's comments offensive, and 71 percent hold an unfavorable view of Trump.

    LINK

    President George W. Bush won 40 percent of the Hispanic vote in 2004, but in 2012 GOP candidate Mitt Romney won just 27 percent compared to President Obama's 71 percent.

    Only 18 percent of Hispanic voters identify as Republicans, according to the Univision poll, compared to 57 percent who identify as Democrats.
    Imagine that! (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Peter G on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:43:19 AM EST
    I am shocked. ;)

    Parent
    That's becaus the Democrats (none / 0) (#5)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:45:35 AM EST
    have brainwashed them to stay on the Democratic hacienda and not think for themselves.</s>

    Parent
    More Accurate headline (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:21:09 AM EST
    Univision Poll: All GOP Candidates in Trouble with Hispanics

    Parent
    Headline from Wingbat World Daily: (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:08:20 PM EST
    Univision Poll: Mexicans Hate White People, Want to Take California Back.

    Parent
    Yes, as they should be; (none / 0) (#16)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 11:03:59 AM EST
    Polls of black Americans are likely to poll similarly.  But, it is a wonderment that these citizens's polling do not also register with similar results: all women, all white men who are not part of the one percent (or maybe, top 10 percent), all Americans interested in health care coverage, social security, medicare, public schools,  separation of church and state,  economic equality, and those who see no risks to war, only risks to diplomacy.    

    Parent
    make that (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 11:31:45 AM EST
    not those who see no risks to war, only risks to diplomacy.

    Parent
    Interesting post at Americablog (none / 0) (#67)
    by magster on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 12:20:00 AM EST
    about the sinister subtext of Steve King's "I'm just as much a Latino as Julian Castro" statement.

    The new RW talking point is that once you become an American citizen, you lose the right to identify yourself by your ethnic heritage.

    Parent

    I (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 10:18:50 AM EST
    would call it craven rather then sinister. I have a different read about the subtext. If he considers Castro to be non-Latino it's because he is well educated, successful and well respected. In other words he "earned" his non-hyphenated status.

    The Republican attitude toward minorities and the poor has always been that any disadvantages they suffer are self inflicted. If only they would shut up and work harder and quit acting so ethnically, they too could be elevated to "real" Americans.

    Parent

    E pluribus unum (none / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:12:00 AM EST
    Out of many, one!

    "A house divided against itself cannot stand," - Lincoln

    "And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand." - Mark 3:25

    "If we don't hang together, by Heavens we shall hang separately" - Franklin ??


    Parent
    too bad the people who hide (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:18:35 AM EST
    behind the Confederate flag as their 'heritage' and identify as Southerners instead of Americas won't take this lesson to heart.

    Parent
    Yes, your final quote (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by Zorba on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 01:11:44 PM EST
    Was, indeed, from Benjamin Franklin.

    Parent
    2014: Hottest Year on Record (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 11:05:27 AM EST
    on both land and sea according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

    Unless of course you prefer the alternative argument

    There are ways and way to lie (2.00 / 1) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 04:19:21 PM EST
    Thanks partly to NOAA's new adjusted dataset, tommorrow they'll claim to reporters that May (and possibly June) was the `hottest ever'
    Anthony Watts / 2 days ago July 15, 2015
    However, satellite data don't agree with that finding

    Link

    Parent

    Yeah! What the hell does NOAA know, right? (none / 0) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 08:44:14 PM EST
    After all, that agency and its forerunner the U.S. Weather Bureau have only been compiling and analyzing weather data in this country since 1870, whereas you -- uh, what exactly ARE your credentials, Jim, that we should take you seriously on this subject?

    Parent
    NOAA is becoming a joke (2.00 / 1) (#59)
    by ragebot on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:44:44 PM EST
    They have been caught changing the raw data to the point that other researchers are no longer using their records.  There has always been a question about how accurate the weather station numbers were because of the number of variables can distort the number, things like clouds, new buildings, parking lots, and many other things.  One famous example was a thermometer was placed in the exhaust of the AC in a building close to it.

    But once satellite data became available many researchers started using it.  It was a lot more unbiased.  Problem for the global warming guys is that satellite data has not shown any statistically significant warming in twenty years.

    This is what Jim's link showed.  And a quick google search will produce plenty of other sources confirming that.

    Parent

    The only joke (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Yman on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:00:36 PM EST
    ... are these silly, fact-free, specious claims.  Jim's link went to CoralGables comment.

    Oops!

    But I always love the Google search argument.  There are plenty of Google results, so it's got to be true!

    Parent

    Multiple wingbats foaming at the mouth online ... (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 07:20:53 AM EST
    ... in a coordinated tizzy are hardly credible sources. But then, who knows? I suppose that it's also possible that the folks at NOAA are the ones who conspired to rig the vote to downgrade Pluto to a dwarf planet, fluoridate our water supplies and "inspect" Iran's nuclear facilities. BWA-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah!

    You know, on second thought, I think I'll still take NOAA's experience, expertise and word over yours.

    But hey, thanks for playing.

    Parent

    Donald your ignorance is astounding (none / 0) (#76)
    by ragebot on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 08:05:40 AM EST
    Do you know what a satellite is?  Do you know how much money the US govt has spent sending up satellites with remote sensing to measure the temperature?  Do you know the reason for establishing a network of satellites to measure not only the air temperature but also the sea surface temperature?  Are you aware of what ARGO cost and what it does?

    The problem is the sources I mentioned all produce raw data and release it as such.  The weather station data NOAA collects goes through a process of what NOAA calls normalization (and the normalization always seems to raise the average temperature) using a process they have been reluctant to describe.

    Bottom line is the NOAA data is in conflict with the satellite data and the ARGO data in terms of any statistically significant warming.  In any other area of science manipulating data and not describing the process used, or in the case of Mann simply not releasing the data and then later claiming it was lost would be met with laughter and the claims would be dismissed.

    You seem to have a good grasp of history, but I have to wonder if you have studied any hard science.

    Parent

    The study was peer-reviewed (none / 0) (#78)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 08:20:48 AM EST
    here's an article from the Guardian about the problems with satellite data.  Bottom line:

    The present paper presents a calibration scheme that allowed them to obtain a diurnal correction from the satellite measurements themselves, in particular, by solving for a common diurnal cycle correction using temperatures from all available satellites.

    As the authors state in the paper, their new results agree with the two groups that show more warming. They disagree with UAH. As the authors state,

    In general, our trends corrected with a GCM and trends corrected with our observationally derived diurnal cycle correction are similar to trends from NOAA and RSS ... the UAH ocean trend is notably lower than trends from the other datasets.

    So, how do the trends compare? Well the lowest trend, in degrees Celsius heating per decade are from UAH and they equal 0.029 for the 1979-2012 period for the mid-troposphere region between 20° South and 20° North. The new results are almost 4 times higher at 0.114°C per decade. The results using a diurnal correction from a climate model are in close agreement with the new findings (0.124°C per decade). As additional support, the NOAA and RSS values are also close to the corrected results. The simple fact is, UAH is an outlier.

    They also discovered that the results from RSS, NOAA, and the new study all show tropical amplification and are in agreement with the expected amplification from climate models. They state, "There is no significant discrepancy between observations and models for lapse rate change between the surface and the full troposphere."



    Parent
    Mordiggian (none / 0) (#88)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:15:06 AM EST
    You didn't believe the Guardian when it wrote that warming had halted...

    Now.... you do.

    lol

    Parent

    Gotta link? (none / 0) (#93)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:24:18 AM EST
    To quote John Maynard Keyes:

    When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?

    lol seems to be your default response to this question.

    Parent

    Also from the Guardian (none / 0) (#97)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:32:08 AM EST

    This so-called "environmental Armageddon" is a fictitious construction cooked up by the left so we'll spend all our time (or at least a half hour a week) changing out our light bulbs and flattening cardboard and completely overlooking their pinko/commie/socialist agendas. I'm on to you, liberals! You're trying to be heroes to humanity. You want everyone to pat you on the back and say, "Oh, look who saved the planet!"

    Well, I have news for you. The planet doesn't need saving. After all, it's been around for almost 2,000 years. It was fine before you got here, and it'll be fine after the apocalypse destroys most of humankind forfor the sins of homosexuality and shellfish consumption. God hates Shrimp Scampi, but He doesn't seem to have a problem with littering. (Leviticus 10:10)
    ...........
    But the most telling sign that global warming is not an actual threat is this: the Republican presidential candidates aren't trying to scare us with the prospect that we're all doomed to die from toxic air and scorching temperatures. And Republican presidential candidates love scaring the public. It's their passion. If they could put a gun to each of our heads individually and say, "Vote for me or else you die", I think they would.
    That's why, despite the numerous scientific claims and all those hockey-stick graphs showing the sharp rise in temperatures, I don't think there's any truth to this whole global warming thing. At the very least, the declarations are exaggerated and we have nothing to worry about for at least a decade.



    Parent
    I have a bachelor's degree in biology. (none / 0) (#85)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:13:32 AM EST
    ragebot: "You seem to have a good grasp of history, but I have to wonder if you have studied any hard science."

    I was a dual-major at the University of Washington and also earned a B.A. in history, as well as an M.A. from the University of Hawaii.

    What's your excuse?

    Parent

    Then you missed the part (none / 0) (#94)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:24:22 AM EST
    about Scientific Theories.

    Sad.

    Parent

    Insulting comment (none / 0) (#104)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:46:13 AM EST


    Parent
    I don't think Donald has studied any (none / 0) (#92)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:23:22 AM EST
    hard science. But even if he has a passing bit of knowledge he is such a hard line Leftie that any fact that disagrees with Obama must be attacked.

    He ignores the years and years of failed predictions and even though MMGW fails all attempts to meet the requirements of a Scientific Theory. He embraces consensus even though consensus proves nothing and is more rabid in defending the hoax than a Christian preacher defending prayer in public.

    Parent

    re global warming (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:49:28 AM EST
    You don't think that Donald has studied any hard science?

    You think that this would be a successful insult to a fellow who seems to have a legal education and maybe to have served in some legal capacities in Hawaii?

    Global warming and climate change are terms for the observed century-scale rise in the average temperature of the Earth's climate system and its related effects.

    Multiple lines of scientific evidence show that the climate system is warming.[2][3]

    Do you wish to admit that GW is happening and you are claiming that burning oil and gas has nothing to do with it . . . or, are you admitting to claim that the climate isn't changing?

    Maybe . . . the global climate isn't changing . . . really! . . . Not at all!! . . . based on the fact that there has been some rain recently in the Midwest and/or Texas?

    Oh, wait, my local news says that June has just destroyed some records . . . can't imagine why that would be . . .

    and I think there is an article or two about a bunch of glaciers that are disappearing . . . but man has nothing to do with melting glaciers . . . maybe cause you can find some city or state where there has been a reasonable amount of rain or even cold!

    Since there are persons who have "had an education" in science, including getting a PhD or two, who say that the earth is 6000 or  so years old . . . what is the difference between you and them, if you have a PhD in something and between you and Donald if you both lack PhDs in physics or engineering?

    Why not go by the evidence of global warming, rather than your making hurtful speculations about D's scientific PhD or lack of such?

    Parent

    You are joining a debate in the middle. (1.00 / 1) (#117)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:52:16 AM EST
    You don't think that Donald has studied any hard science?

    I was wrong. But evidently he has not kept current or worked in the field.

    You think that this would be a successful insult to a fellow who seems to have a legal education and maybe to have served in some legal capacities in Hawaii?

    I didn't mean it as insult, just a comment on his background. Many people have legal educations and worked in the field in HI with varying degrees of success.

    Global warming and climate change are terms for the observed century-scale rise in the average temperature of the Earth's climate system and its related effects.
    Multiple lines of scientific evidence show that the climate system is warming.[2][3]
    Do you wish to admit that GW is happening and you are claiming that burning oil and gas has nothing to do with it . . . or, are you admitting to claim that the climate isn't changing?

    I have never said that climate does not change nor have I said that GW has not happened. My point is that the man made global claims are basically hoaxes designed to gather political power and money. Plus, the rise has flattened and we have multiple instances were the data has been changed.

    Maybe . . . the global climate isn't changing . . . really! . . . Not at all!! . . . based on the fact that there has been some rain recently in the Midwest and/or Texas?
    Oh, wait, my local news says that June has just destroyed some records . . . can't imagine why that would be . . .

    Did you not read the comments just above??? They changing the data to get the desired answer. That isn't new. In fact it is encouraged.

    Link

    And there are disagreements

    and I think there is an article or two about a bunch of glaciers that are disappearing . . . but man has nothing to do with melting glaciers . . . maybe cause you can find some city or state where there has been a reasonable amount of rain or even cold!

    Uh, one of those glaciers has been found to have geo thermal problems. Another was determined to be caused by dust and another never happened.

    Link

    Since there are persons who have "had an education" in science, including getting a PhD or two, who say that the earth is 6000 or  so years old . . . what is the difference between you and them, if you have a PhD in something and between you and Donald if you both lack PhDs in physics or engineering?

    Why not go by the evidence of global warming, rather than your making hurtful speculations about D's scientific PhD or lack of such?

    I don't give details about my background but I have previously noted that it is in engineering. Like Donald I am retired and couldn't carry the briefcase of an engineer in todays world.

    But the basics re analysis do not change,

    I'm a scifi fan. Here's what John W Campbell, the dean of editors, had to say about science and engineers:

    An Engineer is not a Scientist. He doesn't think like a Scientist. He doesn't have the same value-system in his judgments. But he's even more anti-mystic than the Scientist!

    Scientist are seeking for "truth." They look for explanations that are new. As such they are human, prone to defending failed theories and like power and money as well as anyone else.

    Your comment leads to "consensus."  Consensus is not science. Ask Galileo:

    "In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual."

    His problem was with the Pope. A man who thought he had the ultimate in consensus.

    Ask George Washington who died from his doctors' consensus that bleeding was the proper treatment from pneumonia.

    Most of all, read Karl Popper.  

    Finally, here's a link to a post I made a couple of years ago that explains why I don't believe in MMGW.

    Parent

    Debate? (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 04:49:59 PM EST
    there is no debate.   Except in your mind.

    Parent
    Henry M Morris has a phd . . . (none / 0) (#155)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 08:12:06 PM EST
    Henry Madison Morris (October 6, 1918 - February 25, 2006) was an American young earth creationist, Christian apologist, and engineer. He was one of the founders of the Creation Research Society and the Institute for Creation Research.

    In case you have missed the initials that go with the name, they are PhD . . .

    He graduated from Rice University with a bachelor's degree in civil engineering in 1939. . .

    From 1946-1951, he studied at the University of Minnesota, where he was awarded a master's degree in hydraulics (1948) and a Ph.D. in hydraulic engineering (1950). In 1951 he became a professor and chair of civil engineering at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette, then served as a professor of applied science at Southern Illinois University from 1956-1957.

    Oh well, another fellow like you with a degree or background in engineering . . . careful thinkers . . .  all of you  . . .

    Parent

    And your point is what???? (none / 0) (#167)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:09:40 PM EST
    If it is an attempt to paint all engineers as being creationists I assume that you believe, based on the religion of the young man who just killed 5 Americans, that all Muslims are killers.

    Which, of course, is what you are implying. I am not.

    Be careful of those paint brushes. They can drip on you.

    And any time you want to debate the various points made by both sides I am available.

    We can start by you telling us how MMGW meets the requirements of a Scientific Theory.
     

    Parent

    Missing the point agsin (none / 0) (#177)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 05:53:53 AM EST


    Parent
    FYI (none / 0) (#101)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:40:52 AM EST
    Biology is a hard science, and as someone who has a Bachelor in the same subject, I can tell you the requirements typically include a year of Physics, a year of Calculus, two years of Chemistry, including a year of Organic(carbon-based) Chemistry.

    So your bet would lose, Jim, no matter what you "think".

    Parent

    Additionally, I was required to take ... (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 03:59:43 PM EST
    Mordiggian 88: "Biology is a hard science, and as someone who has a Bachelor in the same subject, I can tell you the requirements typically include a year of Physics, a year of Calculus, two years of Chemistry, including a year of Organic(carbon-based) Chemistry."

    ... Analytic Geometry, Quantitative Statistical Reasoning, Science Communication, Ethical and Metaethical Theory, and Formula Translating Systems aka FORTRAN.

    Within the core of the discipline itself, the classes I took included General Microbiology, Genetics and Molecular Ecology, Evolution and Development, Landscape Plant Recognition, Plant Ecology, Invertebrate Zoology, Comparative Vertebrate Anatomy, Herpetology, Mammalogy, Field Ornithology, Management of Endangered and Threatened Species, Biology and Conservation of Birds, Animal Behavior, Wildlife Ecology and Conservation, and Natural Resource Policy and Planning.

    That was for a B.A. in biology, with an emphasis in resource conservation and management. For a B.S. degree, the requirements were somewhat more rigorous, and those students tended to be pre-med and pre-dental. Nowadays, there would likely be additional requirements in Genetics and Genomics, due to the significant advances in those fields in the past 30 years since I graduated.

    I was at UW for a full six years, because I stayed an additional four quarters to complete my requirements for a B.A. in history. Further, I had also missed both a fall and winter quarter, due to a particularly nasty bout with chicken pox and its lingering complications, which I had contracted at age 21 while on a late summer visit home to SoCal. I had to redshirt my junior season in baseball as a result, and I also had to attend two subsequent summer quarters to make up the lost ground.

    Because I had completed the requirements for a B.A. in biology within the four seasons I played baseball, my full-ride athletic scholarship at the university expired upon the completion of my NCAA eligibility. So, my grandparents generously picked up the entire tab for my final year-plus, because history was the direction I had decided to go -- and that's really my first love, anyway.

    Perhaps more than anything else, my major in biology taught me to respect both the scientific arts and its practitioners. That's why, particularly when I worked in the political world at the state legislative and congressional staff levels, I admittedly tend to accept the professional analysis and findings of scientists and doctors who specialize in their respective fields, over the opinions and judgments of lay people who may or may not be beholden to other agendas.

    That also why I'm generally dismissive as a rule of the often wild claims by Jim and his friends on the subject of climate change, because their opinions appear to be driven almost entirely by short-term economic considerations and remarkably narrow-minded politics, rather than derived from any real and thoughtful analysis of peer-reviewed and accepted data and research.

    I mean, I suppose there IS a possibility that Jim is right, and that the 97% of the scientific community which is currently vouching for the validity and reality of global warming could be completely and utterly wrong.

    But quite honestly, as most critically thinking and logical people no doubt realize, the actual likelihood of such a collective and massive error on their part is rather infinitesimally remote.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Donald there is no 97% (3.50 / 2) (#170)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:33:46 PM EST
    Since 1998, more than 31,000 American scientists from diverse climate-related disciplines, including more than 9,000 with Ph.D.s, have signed a public petition announcing their belief that "...there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate." Included are atmospheric physicists, botanists, geologists, oceanographers, and meteorologists.

    snip

    Then of those, only a small subset, just 77 who had been successful in getting more than half of their papers recently accepted by peer-reviewed climate science journals, were considered in their survey statistic. That "98% all scientists" referred to a laughably puny number of 75 of those 77 who answered "yes".

    As is said. There are lies, dam lies and then there are statistics.

    Link

    Parent

    Whatever, dude. (3.00 / 2) (#172)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:58:07 PM EST
    I promised Jeralyn that I'd be civil, and the best way to do that is to avoid addressing your blog-clogging nonsense altogether. You can quote Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, for all I care.

    Parent
    maybe the missing glacier . . . (none / 0) (#156)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 08:16:06 PM EST
    Did some enterprising capitalist bring the 1200 square miles of ice to Hawaii?  You folks probably need it there in the summertime . . .

    I don't know why I didn't think of that, instead of thinking they brought it to Mexico!

    Parent

    Los Angeles is getting a lot of rain tonight ... (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 08:50:30 PM EST
    ... thanks to the remnants of Tropical Storm Dolores, which is an almost unheard-of occurrence in Southern California, particularly in the middle of July. All L.A. County beaches are closed because of lightning strikes. The upside is that the drought-parched region could really use the much-needed rain.

    Parent
    Oh, and guess what? (none / 0) (#161)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:48:44 PM EST
    The storm clouds parted this afternoon in Hilo, giving us a great view of 143,800-ft. Mauna Kea, and lo and behold, there's snow up there. (Here's a photo from March 2013, which closely resembles what we've seen today.) We've had snow in our mountains as late as May, but never in July as far as I can remember.

    Parent
    Oops! Mauna Kea's elevation is 13,800 ft. (none / 0) (#163)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:51:07 PM EST
    My bad.

    Parent
    Have you seen Antartica? (none / 0) (#106)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:58:01 AM EST
    I don't know if you have noticed

    but Antartica is missing a bunch of ice . . . at least in comparison to the recent past and the amount of ice it had . . .

    I can't imagine why . . .  With no scientific education, I can only imagine that someone has gone to Antartica and is exporting the ice to Mexico . . .

    Perhaps you can remind me of your scientific education and your scientific explanation for the missing ice?

    Parent

    As I said (2.00 / 1) (#168)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:20:19 PM EST
    you are joining the debate in the middle.

    Comment 2 in this thread explains all.

    BTW - Ice in other sectors is increasing. I guess that old devil CO2 just goes were it wants.

    Please try and keep up.

    Parent

    ice in other sectors? (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 06:27:33 AM EST
    Are you trying to tell me that

    1. the global mean temperature has not been increasing over the past 100 years and/or over the past 30 years?
    2. the increase in global mean temperature was not responsible for the floating away of 1250 square miles of ice that had been for many years a part of the ice at Antartica, such ice floating away over the space of 35 days or so?
    3. an alleged increase in ice found in Montana or some other as yet unspecified location means that the global mean temperature has not been increasing?
    4. that changing climate was not responsible in part for Seattle this year setting new temperature records for the month of June and/or heat records for the first half of the year?

    Tell me more . . .

    Of course, since I live in the Seattle area . . . and since I prefer sunshine to clouds and rain, at least starting in March or April . . . I don't mind very much . . .  but I've been hearing that some polar bears are not keen on the idea of global warming . . .

    Parent

    I am not trying to tell you anything (2.00 / 1) (#208)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 01:33:36 PM EST
    Read this article and you will see that the west ice sheet is affected by geothermal warming.

    Link

    Read this article and you will see that the other Antarctic ice is at an all time high and Arctic ice is near normal.

    Link

    I guess that nasty CO2 only affects the west..;-)

    Read this article and you will discover that your scientists said Arctic ice would be gone by 2013.

    Guess that ole "predictive power" doesn't apply.

    And read this article and you will see that the Arctic sea ice is basically unchanged after 20 years of melting.

    Link

    So it appears to me that the so-called habitat of the polar bear is the same. And then we find:

    The rebounding of polar bear populations over the past several decades has been a huge success story. Far from being endangered, vulnerable, or threatened, polar bears are thriving; their populations have exploded in virtually all of their habitats of the circumpolar nations. That's good news for the polar bears, but bad news for the Polar Bear Specialist Group, the highly politicized organization of wildlife "scientists" that receives massive funding and favorable media coverage for regularly claiming that hoary arctic predators are perilously close to extinction due to human-caused global warming.

    The Polar Bear Specialist Group (PBSG) is, perhaps, the best-known task force of the International Union for the Conservation of Nature (IUCN), one of the Big Green global enviro-activist organizations that lobby relentlessly for ever more government controls over all human activity, always with the supposed objective of protecting nature.

    Is the PBSG the "authoritative source" on polar bears, as the IUCN claims? Top polar bear experts challenge that assertion. Dr. Susan J. Crockford, adjunct professor at the University of Victoria, British Columbia, who runs the very informative polarbearscience.com website, says the discredited PBSG should have been disbanded long ago, in a January 1 posting entitled, "IUCN Polar Bear Specialist Group out-lived its usefulness 20 years ago."

    In a belated Christmas present, Crockford provided this December 26 posting that further deflates the already collapsing narrative about the non-existent "crisis" of declining arctic sea ice: "Polar bear habitat -- more Arctic sea ice in Canada this week than in early 1970s."

    The article opens with this cheery news: "This week, Arctic sea ice in Canada, where 2/3 of the world's polar bears live, had more sea ice than was present in the early 1970s. Globally, the ice is spitting-distance close to the 1981-2010 average calculated by the NSIDC for this date -- which means lots of winter/spring hunting habitat for polar bears."

    Again, good news for the bears, bad news for the alarmists who exploit the bears.

    Good news for bears...bad news for seals.

    Zaitz, you've been hoodwinked.

    BTW - I lived in Redmond during the 80's. My youngest daughter is a UW grad...and I hated to leave. But even back then I could see Seattle changing from a liberal city to a city of the Far Left.

    And there is a big difference.

    Parent

    Do you and polar bears agree? (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 06:41:03 AM EST
    Have you perhaps seen this clip?

    How do you wish to explain the decline in the polar bear conditions in the Artic, if I may ask?

    Is it a fluke of some scientist cooking data somewhere?

    Parent

    Donald, they've been caught cooking the books (1.50 / 2) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:09:33 PM EST
    lol

    Parent
    The only thing that's been cooked here ... (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:26:51 PM EST
    ... is the grey matter that's apparently boiled away inside your thick skull.

    Sell crazy someplace else.

    Parent

    Time is on my side (none / 0) (#84)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:13:01 AM EST


    Parent
    Why? (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:14:27 AM EST
    because you will be dead before the worst happens?

    Parent
    Thank you (none / 0) (#86)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:13:47 AM EST
    Mick Jagger.

    Parent
    If you think so, then you best check ... (none / 0) (#91)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:20:21 AM EST
    ... the battery in your watch, because it's probably dead.

    Parent
    Right! (none / 0) (#108)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 10:13:55 AM EST
    Oh . . .

    For us simpletons, let us know more! . . .

    The average high temperature for June was 78.9 degrees. That's a new record -- by a long shot. The old record? 75.8 degrees set in... 1992. Beating an average high temperature record by three degrees is quite the feat. For perspective, it's like taking the previous hottest June, and adding an extra 93 degrees to spread around the 30 days. Third place is 74.7, 4th place is 74.1, so each time setting the record previously was more of an edge than an oblitteration. So 2015 is putting up incredibly lofty numbers that will be tough to beat.

    By the way, the typical average high temperature for June in Seattle? 69.9 degrees.

    Parent

    At the expressed invitation of Pope Francis, ... (none / 0) (#171)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:53:46 PM EST
    ... California Gov. Jerry Brown is to address next week's international summit on climate change and modern-day slavery that's being hosted by The Vatican, where he'll highlight how his state is at the forefront of the effort to confront the challenges posed by global warming:

    Los Angeles Times | July 18, 2015
    Passage of California climate change bill could set global example - "When Gov. Jerry Brown visits the Vatican this week for an international conference, he'll be carrying a resolution from state lawmakers supporting Pope Francis' recent encyclical on climate change. He's hoping the Legislature will send an even stronger message later this year by passing new environmental rules aimed at helping California slash greenhouse-gas emissions over the next few decades. Approval of the legislation, intended to enact goals outlined by the governor this year, would bolster Brown's calls for global action on climate change with a display of regulatory muscle in his own state."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Obama, and His Legacy (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 11:09:26 AM EST
    Had you asked me a couple years ago about what kind of job Obama was doing, I would not have been kind.  Certainly better than any republican, but his accomplishments seemed... lackluster and nothing beyond ACA really stood out.  I am positive I called him light-right more than once or twice.

    As CST has mentioned numerous times, this lame duck muthafocker(my word) is getting it done like no one else.  I agree with her 100%, and I think he is taking it way past 'a lame duck getting it done', to transforming into 'Finally, the Obama I Fell in Love With'.

    Certainly I was never in love with the guy, but as far as political love, he was my second, behind Bill.  Using the same metaphor, I would say we were close to separating.  But I think recently, and not all due to Obama himself, but his Presidency in giving Clinton's a run for it's money.  In way different ways, but he is leaving something to be proud of.  

    As mentioned in the link above, he is leaving a legacy that no other President has, a legacy of non-violence that I think will be substantial long after he leaves office.  The work he is doing is almost surreal, add in the dysfunctional R Congress and it is literally amazing.

    Granted, there are some things, like ACA and equal rights, that he really had nothing to do with in regards to the SCOTUS, but he is in no way behaving like a lame duck, if anything he is getting more accomplished than when he had a D Congress, and that is, again, amazing.

    I also think he is clearing a path for HRC to follow, these are progressive ideals that are popular, and he garnering a lot votes by simply being the person that I think a lot of us voted for in 2008.  While HRC is her own person, I think the Presidency is like a comedy show, everyone wants to follow the funny guy, it doesn't ensure people are going to laugh, but it certainly doesn't hurt.  No one, absolutely no one wants to follow the flop.  And had Obama fell flat, HRC would have a much tougher time regardless of her material.  Unlike Obama, Clinton isn't going to be dealing with a bleak economy and what seemed like an endless debacle in Iraq.  He is giving her the keys to the kingdom, and from what I can tell, she will be as good if not better, namely because she isn't starting from a hole in the ground.  She can focus on moving forward and not dealing with the nightmares that GWB left behind.

    Iran (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 04:56:29 PM EST
    deal through economic lens from Professor Cole, "Winners & Losers in the Greater Middle East"
    Bottom line, The Kingdom is the biggest loser, yet another reason to like it.

    Show us the 27 pages!

    And from (none / 0) (#33)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 05:18:35 PM EST
    my favorite Professor and fellow "cultist", Dr. K puts some positive spin on Hillary's economic vision.
    Mrs. Clinton's core message was that the federal government can and should use its influence to push for higher wages.


    Parent
    I Googled that quote... (none / 0) (#176)
    by unitron on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 03:51:25 AM EST
    ...just to be sure you meant Krugman and not Kissinger.

    Parent
    Please do not post comments attacking Jim or (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 05:35:33 AM EST
    anyone else. No Name calling either. I delete those kinds of comments to anyone. It is a drain on the level of discourse I aspire for this blog to reach,

    Point taken, Jeralyn. (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:02:36 AM EST
    But since you've broached the subject, if you could also do something about the NewsMax-worthy rants and World Net Daily-style replies with which Jim peppers these threads, that would also likely help to elevate the discourse here. I agree with what you're saying, and I promise to henceforth do my best to maintain a civil tongue and / or just ignore him.

    But that said and quite honestly, it's sometimes very difficult to not be terribly annoyed by Jim's often-inflammatory nonsense, such as his ugly anti-immigrant comments and Muslim bashing -- or even his specious accusation offered above that NOAA is fabricating weather data, which serves only to trivialize and mock an otherwise very real and serious problem.

    The man is certainly entitled to express his opinions, but he should not repeatedly belabor issues such as climate change with his own sets of "facts," such as they are.

    While I don't consider myself to be the smartest person here, I'm certainly not stupid and for that matter, neither are most of the people who post here at TL. And speaking for myself only, I really don't appreciate having my intelligence regularly insulted like that.

    Such repeated challenges to one's intellectual integrity tend to provoke the worst from me, and at that point my instinct is to go for the rhetorical jugular. To those I may have offended with my own flamethrowing during such contentious exchanges, I apologize.

    Anyway, that's simply my own opinion on the matter, and that's the last I'll say on it. I will, of course, defer to your expressed wishes in any event.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Donald, (2.00 / 1) (#111)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:00:07 AM EST
    you are making things up.

    Having a different opinion on immigration and national defense than yours is not forbidden nor is it a sin.

    On undocumented persons, my stated opinion time and again is:

    Labor is a commodity. The flood of undocumented persons depresses the price of that labor and prevent strikes for wage increases and working condition improvements. I am amazed that anyone in favor of unions can't seem to understand that.

    My solution is:

    1. Shut the border down. People caught coming across should be deported immediately. No hearings no catch and release.

    2. Give green cards to the people here. Let them get in line for citizenship. People who fail the background test for crimes should be deported.

    3. Put business owners who hire undocumented people in jail.

    4. After we have done that we need to have a national debate on immigration. It is obvious we do not need unskilled workers. Those days are gone forever.

    Comment 24 35 51

    Comment 8

    Comment 5 33

    Comment 8 79 68 69

    I could go on and on.

    Your comment re Muslims is especially egregious and is made only because you disagree with my position on national defense.

    Which means that I believe that ISIS is a problem and that Iran is a problem and that the time to deal with them is now. They are controlled by radical islamists are avowed enemies of western civilization.

    Finally, MMGW is not proven and consensus is not science. And many scientists do not agree with  consensus proving anything.

    Donald, what you seek is censorship.

    Parent

    I rest my case, Jeralyn. (none / 0) (#133)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 04:04:17 PM EST
    :-(

    Parent
    Hey Jube (2.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 05:59:14 AM EST


    Parent
    This just in (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 08:44:06 AM EST

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Sarasota, Florida, July 16, 2015. The Distinguished Union of National Clown Entertainers (DUNCE) has filed a complaint against the Republican Party (GOP) for defamation and the willful infliction of reputational disparagement. The complaint alleges that the GOP did intentionally engage in activities that brought unwarranted shame to distinguished practitioners of clowning and the variety arts, and they failed to refrain from such activities when alerted to their impending harm.

    DUNCE is being represented by the firm of ICP & Associates in this matter, in the jurisdiction of the State of Florida.

    Members of DUNCE claim to have have been irreparably damaged professionally and personally as a result of the negligence and/or deliberate actions by the GOP. Specifically, by assembling a field of candidates with buffoonish characteristics that blatantly infringe on the intellectual property of the members of DUNCE, the GOP did appropriate the image and reputation of authentic clowns without authorization. They then proceeded to tarnish the good name of professional clowning by engaging in behaviors that were malicious and false.

    Link

    The (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:18:29 AM EST
    comedy writers guild is filing a counter complaint.  Releasing a statement: "The GOP clown car is a valuable national resource that belongs to all comedians, not just the ones with rubber noses."

    Parent
    I am astounded (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by BarnBabe on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 03:06:38 PM EST
    Last night I read all the comments on the 'debates' between our esteemed fellow TL members. It was getting hot and heavy and so I left myself out of the mix. You guys were doing just fine. What my concern was that yesterday there was a terrible tragedy in Tenn. 4 Marines dead and one murderer who blindly shot at them because they were Americans. J touched upon it when she opened the thread but in the middle of the debate, there was no mention from any of you of what the shooting was about. I mean, we had a Marine who had 2 tours in Iraq and died here on our land. We had a person who was born in the Middle East shoot some of our souldiers on our land. And, he was not on the FBI list even though he had gone to Syria for 6 months. But, all the discussion aside of what went wrong here was that our community failed to respond or acknowledge another problem that was happening. I love you all and you can admonish me for mentioning it, but these men were serving out country too. The killer, hate is taught. Thanks.

    What do you say? (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 07:46:03 PM EST
    It's yet ANOTHER mass murder. They just keep on coming and now it's being reported that the 5th one that was shot has now died.

    Perhaps one day Americans will get tired enough of the mass murders that are happening to try to fight the NRA but right now everybody just seems resigned to accepting mass murders as a way of life here in the USA.

    Parent

    I honestly don't know how to react (none / 0) (#126)
    by CST on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 03:23:15 PM EST
    At this point.  I don't have any ideas or solutions.  I know we've tried and failed so miserably the problem has gotten demonstrably worse in a short period of time.  I refuse to be afraid of strangers and neighbors.  I just wish there was less hate.

    Its hard to comment on a tragedy when there is no solution or hope for improvement in sight.

    Say what you will about Charleston and school shootings, they feel like preventable tragedies.  Something we have control over as a society.  For all killers hate is taught.  The difference is people in the middleeast aren't learning our hate, so we have no control over it.  I don't know how to fix this.  Beyond the same $hit with gun control, which never gets anywhere anyway.  It just feels hopeless.

    And greater surveillance is not an answer.  There are too many people on earth.  And you're never going to be able to watch them all.  Never mind the moral implications of trying.

    Parent

    What CST said (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 03:39:45 PM EST
    you have a point.   I might have commented about it but A.) I have been trying to post fewer comments and B.) what to say except oh my god, here we go again.  I think someone (Anne?) commented about it in the last thread.

    I am exhausted of talking about it.   I just feel like I am bracing for the next one.   The day is still young.

    Parent

    The (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 04:47:52 PM EST
    exhaustion  factor sure plays into it, these shootings seem to be morphing into a sort of natural disaster, tragic yet unavoidable. Somehow  asking the why of it all becomes futile, like asking why a tornado chose to level a particular town.

    It's correct to call it hate, but it's also very simplistic. This guy was a Jihadist, the guy before that was a Racist, the guy before was a RW militia type, the guy before that was a true loon, rinse and repeat

    The trouble is, if you focus on any particular brand of hate it just stirs up more hate. If you focus on the common denominator, guns, The NRA will jump in with their specialized, industrial strength hate.

    Depressing.

     

    Parent

    Thank you all (none / 0) (#169)
    by BarnBabe on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:23:46 PM EST
    I think I felt that so much passion was being put into arguments between friends and none into a very sad subject. I appreciate you all replying and with compassion because we all know we can't do too much about these hate crimes. Except, acknowledging the lives lost to the families. I sincerely hope I never have to deal with something like this. GN on the East Coast.

    Parent
    The GOP hypocrisy on McCain/Trump (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Yman on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 08:15:16 AM EST
    "Senator McCain is an American hero because he served his country and sacrificed more than most can imagine. Period," Sean Spicer, the RNC's chief strategist and communications director, said in a statement. "There is no place in our party or our country for comments that disparage those who have served honorably."

    Guess they don't remember the swiftboating of John Kerry, the attacks on Al Gore or the Purple Bandaid Brigade.

    The Stanford Prison Experiment (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 08:07:04 AM EST
    just caught that rarest of things.  An interesting conversation on Morning Joe.  With the film makers and the doctor who conducted the original experiment in 1971.

    Fine ensemble acting brings a notorious psychological study to life in "The Stanford Prison Experiment." The research, now 44 years old, may today seem as if it merely confirmed the obvious, but the film, by Kyle Patrick Alvarez, certainly makes you feel the claustrophobic intensity of what went on.

    The film is about a 1971 study done by a Stanford University professor, Philip Zimbardo, in which students were recruited to play either guards or inmates in a make-believe prison. Guess what? People put in positions of authority, like prison guards, sometimes abuse that authority, and in startlingly cruel ways.

    TRAILER

    Times review

    Wonder if.... (none / 0) (#6)
    by jbindc on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:53:35 AM EST
    the film only used the popular version of what happened or did it also show the widely-held criticisms of the study?  (My guess is they used the popular version, since most psychology textbooks gloss over, or don't even mention, the problems with the study and its conclusions).

    Firstly, Zimbardo, who acted as the prison's superintendent, appears to have instructed the guards, both explicitly and implicitly, how to carry out their duties. Zimbardo "gave the guards an orientation that seems to have provided clear guidance about how they should behave," Griggs noted.

    In addition, only one-third of the guards in the Stanford Prison Experiment abused the prisoners. Psychologist Erich Fromm argued that this finding flies in the face of the Zimbardo's situationist interpretation.

    "If in spite of the whole spirit of this mock prison which, according to the concept of the experiment was meant to be degrading and humiliating (obviously the guards must have caught on to this immediately), two thirds of the guards did not commit sadistic acts for personal `kicks,' the experiment seems rather to prove that one can not transform people so easily into sadists by providing them with the proper situation," he remarked.

    In his study, Griggs listed slew of other criticisms: "The SPE has also been criticized for the lack of generalizability and ecological validity (e.g., Fromm, 1973), the possibility of participant selection bias (Carnahan & McFarland, 2007; McFarland & Carnahan, 2009), for breaching research ethics (e.g.,Savin, 1973), for providing no satisfactory account of the individual differences observed (McGreal, 2013), and for being a pseudoscientific experiment that is more aptly described as Kafkaesque absurdist performance."

    I think it's not a good idea to draw too many conclusions from this study at all.  But now we are going to have a whole new generation of people who are going to see this movie and going to believe in the results of this study and not even question its validity.

    Parent

    Anyone with any historical acumen (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:18:34 AM EST
    doesn't need to peruse experiments like Zimbardo's to be painfully aware of the deadly consequences all-too-often ensuing from donning a uniform, strapping on a weapon, and checking your critical thinking and conscience at the door.    

    Parent
    Two words (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:24:48 AM EST
    Abu Ghraib.

    Parent
    Attica.. (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:34:40 AM EST
    Andersonville..and many points in between..

    Parent
    Andersonville (none / 0) (#68)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 12:46:13 AM EST
    Probably lack of resources was main problem.

    Parent
    In particular, if those (none / 0) (#26)
    by Zorba on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 01:45:40 PM EST
    donning the uniform and the weapon are (either explicitly or implicitly) encouraged to forcefully assert their authority (to put it mildly).
    It comes from the top down.  If those in charge do not adequately screen and train those who will be on the streets or in the front line, if those in charge look the other way when abuses occur and make excuses for and fail to punish the perpetrators of those abuses, if those in charge even encourage abuses, it becomes all too easy for the abusive culture to permeate the "boots on the ground."  Whether those boots are worn by police officers, military personnel, prison guards, or what have you.
    There's an old saying.  "Uneasy rests the head that wears the crown."  I blame those at the top the most.  They either know about and encourage abuses, or they deliberately ignore and make excuses for them.

    Parent
    To be perfectly honest, jb, ... (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 04:18:23 PM EST
    ... while the percentage of abusive guards in the Stanford study does seem to be rather high, its overall findings don't surprise me. That approximates my own experience and findings with the Hawaii corrections system as chief clerk of the Senate Judiciary Committee in the early '90s.

    Granted, the Hawaii corrections system could have been atypical of its counterparts on the U.S. mainland, in that island jails and prisons have long had a pretty notorious reputation when it comes to the abuse of prisoners.

    I've said here in the past, not necessarily in jest, that you do not ever want to find yourself behind bars in Hawaii, because some of the guards are really not any better than the prisoners they're guarding, while the majority who are not abusive themselves otherwise tend to look the other way whenever such incidents occur. There was / is definitely a conspiracy of silence on that count.

    I heard witnesses recount often hair-raising tales of beatings and sexual abuse, not to mention the repeated shakedowns of relatives who sought only to visit their loved ones. While most inmates are indeed in prison for good reason, that fact does not give our society license to look the other way whenever reports of prisoner abuse surface, on the misguided supposition that those who are incarcerated deserve whatever it is they get.

    In fact, when I was serving as Judiciary clerk, things were so bad in our Dept. of Public Safety that five of its seven correctional facilities were placed under consent decrees by the federal courts, in an effort to compel the State to enact the necessary reforms. About the only thing that got resolved as a result of that was our problem with prison overcrowding, which we dealt with by contracting with other states to take our overflow.

    And that was hardly the decent or humane way to deal with that particular situation, exiling prisoners overseas and several thousand miles away from home and family. In that regard, It rather reminded me of a modern-day "Papillon," when the French used to ship their inmates to penal colonies in South America.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    In Prison in Paradise... (none / 0) (#34)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 05:24:39 PM EST
    What can you tell us about the system that preceded the arrival of religionistas and western overlords?

    Parent
    Here's a sample (none / 0) (#46)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 08:13:04 PM EST

    "That's when I got scared and took off for the City of Refuge. I came down the hill at 90 miles an hour and drove the car as far as I could, out on the rocks; then I ran like a bastard for the sanctuary--over the fence like a big kangaroo, kicked down the door, then crawled inside and started screaming, "I am Lono" at my pursuers, a gang of hired thugs and realtors, turned back by native park ranger.

    They can't touch me now, Ralph. I am in here with a battery-powered typewriter, two blankets from the King Kam, my miner's head lamp, a kit bag full of speed and other vitals, and my fine Samoan war club." - Hunter S. Thompson, The Curse of Lono.

    City of Refuge

    Parent

    Is it your contention that ... (none / 0) (#49)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 08:51:12 PM EST
    ... the former existence of the kapu system in the Hawaii Islands two centuries ago somehow mitigates and excuses the excesses and violations committed by the Hawaii Dept. of Public Safety, which were cited by the federal courts in the consent decrees?

    If it isn't, then why even bring it up?

    Parent

    One Straw Man Swatted out'a the park. (none / 0) (#72)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 06:05:08 AM EST


    Parent
    Okay - then what exactly was your point? (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:41:00 AM EST
    We were discussing the Stanford prison study, and you somehow saw fit to bring up an ancient Polynesian religious law system that once governed Hawaiian life prior to western contact, but got overturned by Queen Kaahumanu back in 1820.

    Aside from the tangential fact that Kaahumanu's actions subsequently opened the door for the soon-arriving American Protestant missionaries to work their dubious faith-based charms on the indigenous people and impose western law -- that is, before they infected Hawaiians with measles and killed off half the population -- the existence of the kapu system two centuries ago really has absolutely nothing to do with what I was relating about the modern Hawaii Dept. of Public Safety.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    It was you who put Hawaii on the table (none / 0) (#186)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 08:04:30 AM EST
    Since you mentioned "kapu," I googled.  I found this, which hints at a much different culture.

    - by Adam Keawe Manalo-Camp

    My grandmother never believed that most of the ali'i were indigenous or were Hawaiian. She believed that many of them came originally from Samoa, Tahiti, Borabora and Ra'iatea because of their kapu which included the kapu puhi kanaka ahi, lumaluma'i and certain types of mōhai. I won't translate those terms because they are quite horrible and graphic.  But she believed that such kapu were innovation sfrom Tahitians who came with Pa'ao and that originally the Hawaiian religion consisted of simply Kū and Hina.  She also believed that original Hawaiians were also not directly from Polynesia but from Asia (hence the names Hawa, Hiwa, Ulu, and Nana which have cognate names in Indonesia, Borneo, and India) led by Māui and the original people were primarily farmers which is why Kanaloa never had a huge role in the Hawaiian religion unlike the Māori, Tongans, and Samoans.  But later, with Pa'ao, all of this was distorted as the kapu system became rigid and this is why some Hawaiians have a different more hoʻomaʻau mentality, particularly notice-able with some Hawaiian politicians and certain Hawaiian groups. I personally took those stories as a family myths but those stories had always bothered me which is why I began to investigate more on Pacific linguistics and history.


    Parent
    I'm not saying it doesn't (none / 0) (#115)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:35:22 AM EST
    But the fact that this study keeps being quoted )even around here on occasion) as the definitive and final word on how people react when put in positions of authority, jut proves that those people don't want to read further - they found a study that affirms what is already their belief, where I (within the quote) showed several studies that show something else.  The fact that they made a movie about it is just going to further misinform the public who goes to see it.

    But basically what it says is that a small group of people were put in a situation where they behaved like a$$holes and tyrannical. I bet I could take a random group of TL commenters and put them in a certain (false) situation and they, too, would behave like a$$holes, and even power-hungry tyrants.

    Parent

    TIMES (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:03:56 AM EST
    The experiment's methodologies and meanings have been analyzed endlessly over the years, and the film doesn't delve deeply into these interpretations and critiques. It doesn't need to; this stark and riveting version of events speaks for itself.


    Parent
    Does this number not bother you? (none / 0) (#9)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:04:06 AM EST
    "only one-third of the guards in the Stanford Prison Experiment abused the prisoners"

    If it was 1/20th it would bother me.

    This isn't science. It's sociology and psychology. "Only" one-third is a huge number.

    Parent

    What bothers me (none / 0) (#11)
    by jbindc on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:19:04 AM EST
    Is there was so many things wrong with this experiment, the fact that incorrect conclusions have been drawn from it and used to justify all kinds of positions.  In this case, there were twenty-four students total for the experiment.  I can't find if they split them evenly into guards and prisoners, but assuming they did, that's 12 guards.  "One third" would be 4 people who acted horribly - after being led to do so.  That number is in no way statistically significant and does not prove Zimbardo's theory at all - or the point that these filmmakers want to make.

    You might also want to look at the BBC Prison Study, which found very different results.

    Parent

    While I Agree With You... (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 11:24:58 AM EST
    ...but in real life situations people are often instructed to behave in ways that might not coincide with what the public wants.

    I think it's believable, not because a scientist says so, but because we see people in positions of authority doing terrible S every day.  And I would imagine, unlike the study that may have selected the guards, that these people ensure they get into those positions, which for all practical purposes is the same thing.  Sadists finding themselves in positions that allow them to exercise their nature on other human beings.

    The sadistic population might not be 33%, but there is still percent of folks who are put in charge who like debasing and using their authority for their own personal pleasure.

    I for one don't need a study to know there are a lot of bad apples in charge of other people.  From Abu Ghraib to GITMO to prisons and cops all over the planet.  I read about it every day, and it surely doesn't take an experiment to prove what is already there in plain site.

    That being said, the experiment does seem rather flawed.  What is odd, is it could easily be replicated, and should be.  But what is that going to prove, that 33% is more likely 10%, that the time threshold isn't a week, but a month ?  We know they exist, and they exist in numbers that are not insignificant.

    Parent

    And, I Agree With You, Scott (none / 0) (#162)
    by NYShooter on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:49:16 PM EST
    "I for one don't need a study to know there are a lot of bad apples in charge of other people."
    ---------------------------------------------

    There are just some things that for most of us who have reached the age of adulthood, got our experience and education from simply living life, and experiencing the things we're talking about here.

    Speaking for myself, I have many relatives in the law enforcement field. I, also, have known, and have visited, a good number of convicted felons incarcerated in some of our most infamous "hell-holes." So, to repeat, I don't need to hear from experts telling me that what I've seen, and experienced in real life, wasn't what I saw and experienced.  

    How many of you remember middle & high school, and the hall "monitors" appointed to control student traffic coming & going to class between periods? The skinniest, geekiest, "nerd," became, "Conan the Barbarian," the instant he was handed a little badge. And, don't get me started on the military, and what happens to a warrant officer the minute he's kicked up to an E-6, and given the prefix, "Chief" to his ranking.

    No, the small, insignificant, technical  criticisms of The Stanford Experiment have nothing to due with the irrefutable conclusions reached: Many, if not most, people, given the opportunity to exercise absolute control and power over others will often-times experience, here-to-fore suppressed, feelings & attitudes of a sadistic & pathologically evil nature.

    And, that's just the way it is. I don't adhere to the idea that people are born "good," and have to fight off the evil devil for their entire lives lest they succumb to his evil ways. I think people are born evil (or, whatever term better describes the instinct for survival) and, have to consciously work at being "good."

    Sadly, not too many of us win that eternal struggle, IMO.  

    Parent

    Differnt results.. (none / 0) (#14)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:27:57 AM EST
    this is looking a little like people preferring diffrent studies depending on which outcomes they prefer..

    Parent
    ruffian re: Hannibal (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:20:21 AM EST
    I am officially caught up.  Re: your comment about the rest of the season being a replay of the movie, they have scrambled the story lines and dialogue in very very interesting way that would make that impossible.
    That's actually my favorite thing about the series.  Every episode is loaded with inside things for people who know the books.   But recently they are getting more dense.  Unforgettable lines given to different characters so they mean something very different, interesting asides about story elements.  My favorite of the series so far was the scene in one of the last episodes of the second season, I think, was the eating of the song birds.  Great for so many reasons.  First it was the first gastronomic adventure that really made my neck hair stand on end.  I know, go figure.  But I was like, on no you do-unt just shove a whole bird guts, bones, beak and all in your MOUTH.  It was shot exactly like a sex scene with long extreme close ups of their mouths and eyes.  It was very sensual.  And entirely revolting on a purely culinary level.

    But it was also great because in the book Hannibal Rising  there is a very interesting and important part that involved the eating of song birds..  It contains of of my favorite Hannibal lines, "They smell the others cooking, and still they sing."  
    But ther was no explanation of exactly how the were eaten.

    I love the new season.  But I think it really helps to fanatically know the books.   It's an inspired idea of the way to make a series that has been completely and excellently filmed interesting.  Change the story.  Or at least the telling of the story.  I'm sure Harris would or has approved.  I think I know vaguely how the season will end but I have NO idea how we get there.

    Also (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:01:24 AM EST
    i commented a while back that I hoped they would revisit the ending of the last book, profoundly changed by the film version.  I think it's clear they plan to do that but with a different and more interesting character.

    Btw
    So considerate of NBC to move Hannibal from Thursday to Saturday so I had time to catch up.  

    Parent

    I really do wish I remembered the books better. (none / 0) (#75)
    by ruffian on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 07:52:42 AM EST
    I probably would be appreciating the fine points of it more. I need to stop trying to figure out where it is in my vague memories of the books and just take it in. That scene with the birds was indeed very well done (no pun intended) and memorable.

    I thought my TiVo had screwed up when I did not see anything on the recording schedule for Thursday, then I saw the Saturday shift. Fine with me, I am usually home anyway! But this weekend I am in Nashville meeting up with some friends, so I won't catch up on Hannibal till Monday- you will get ahead of me again!

    Had some red hot Hattie Bs hot chicken - yum, highly recommend!

    Parent

    I think the NBC series (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 08:52:44 AM EST
    this season, in other words, will end in roughly vaguely the same place the final book ended.
    Then, if another network picks it up, excellent.  We are in uncharted territory.  A plus and a minus for creators and programmers I would think.
    On the other hand if no one picks it up it ended more or less where the books, so far, ended.

    I remember them because they are some of the very few books I read more than once.   I love the way he writes.

    There is much happening that might seem like you are remembering but it has important differences.  Like the ending of the most recent episode.  The brains thing.  It went from  doing it FOR Clarice to doing it TO, at least the equivalent of, Clarice.
    I panicked when that scene started because I thought OMG everything I assumed was wrong!  

    Then it wasn't.

    Parent

    Amazing show last night (none / 0) (#199)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 09:55:11 AM EST
    amazing amazing amazing.

    PreviouslyTV-

    All the disappointed, speculative, appreciatively amused, patronizing, conspiratorially content, pain-relishing, calculating, dismissive, insincerely solicitous, straightforward, semi-postcoitally triumphant, exhaustedly curious, rueful, relieved, valedictory, heartbroken, defiant, and smirky reasons Mads Mikkelsen got robbed by the Emmys.

    Looking at the titles it looks like only one episode will be about the Red Dragon.  

    Parent

    Michael Grimm, former (none / 0) (#21)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 01:02:32 PM EST
    Republican Congressman (R.NY) was sentenced to 8 months in prison for tax fraud.  The former marine and former FBI agent plead guilty to tax evasion saying that not paying taxes was the only way he could keep his health-restaurant afloat.   Grimm is also subject to  one-year supervised release and 400-hours of community service.

    This, of course, is the same guy who ... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 01:22:39 PM EST
    ... once threatened to throw that NY1 News reporter over a balcony of the U.S. Capitol for questioning him on a related story about the congressman's campaign finance violations -- and the cameraman kept recording, so it was all captured on video.

    He got what he deserved.

    Parent

    When was the last time (none / 0) (#22)
    by ragebot on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 01:12:05 PM EST
    someone got bashed by both Donald and Jim in the same thread on the same topic like I did in the open thread for Wed?

    I guarantee (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by CST on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 01:13:26 PM EST
    It's happened to Mordiggan (sp?)

    Parent
    Oh, cry me a river. (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 01:30:45 PM EST
    You were clearly concern trolling yesterday on the subject of abortion, and I called you on it. And that's all I'll say about the matter, because that thread is closed. Move on.

    Parent
    ragebot I was expressing sympathy (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 04:23:24 PM EST
    for you feeling that you must apologize to the PC  folks because you note you agree with me.

    About what I don't remember.

    But if it's about Planned Parenthood you can do to Mediamatters article and see were PP clearly admits to making a "profit."

    Parent

    That sounded like BS (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Yman on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:07:43 PM EST
    ... so I looked at Media Matters and was shocked to find out that it was, in fact - a LIE.

    The sale of fetal parts is illegal. But Planned Parenthood says it is donating the fetal tissue for research at the request of some of its patients, which is legal. The family planning provider said it sometimes receives reimbursement from tissue donation entities for the additional expenses of donating, such as transportation costs, but never profits off of the donations.

    What a surprise.

    Parent

    Your wrong (none / 0) (#95)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:30:16 AM EST
    NUCATOLA: I think for affiliates, at the end of the day, they're a non-profit, they just don't want to -- they want to break even. And if they can do a little better than break even, and do so in a way that seems reasonable, they're happy to do that. Really their bottom line is, they just, they want to break even. Every penny they save is just pennies they give to another patient. To provide a service the patient wouldn't get otherwise.

    If you do better than break even you have made a profit.

    Parent

    Really, their bottom line (none / 0) (#103)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:43:31 AM EST
    is to break even.

    Funny how you think they can make a profit on a reimbursement, Jim.

    Parent

    Arguing with a sentence (2.00 / 1) (#113)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:05:18 AM EST
    two clicks up defines you.

    And if they can do a little better than break even, and do so in a way that seems reasonable, they're happy to do that.

    This is like "homicide."

    If you do better than break even you have made a profit.

    And note the justification:

    and do so in a way that seems reasonable,


    Parent
    Okay, so your contention is that (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:37:06 AM EST
    by doing something that is standard in the medical field - being reimbursed for their costs - that if their overall bottom line is in the plus column, that it is the direct result of having been reimbursed?  Since abortion services are a paltry 3% of their total services, it's a stretch to think that there are enough donations of fetal tissue that merely being reimbursed would push the bottom line into the black.  You'd have us believe, I guess, that PP does nothing else in its entire operation that affects the bottom line one way or the other, right?

    Okay, well, by that standard then, I'm deciding that all of your tax dollars go to pay for all the things I favor and that you oppose: whatever it is, if you're against it, and tax dollars pay for it, all of yours go there.

    And do me a favor: don't ever tell us you're in favor of a woman's right to choose, because buying into this propaganda campaign will have no other effect but to increase the chances that fewer women will have access to or be able to afford to make that choice.  And that is the equivalent of making abortion illegal.

    If there's a stronger word than contempt for what I feel for you and your dishonest and disingenuous tactics, I'll let you know; it will just have to do for now.


    Parent

    et al (none / 0) (#118)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 12:47:38 PM EST
    Anne - And your contention is that if only 3%of trips to my bank result in robberies it is okay??

    Okie dokie.

    Is there something about illegal that you don't understand??

    Mordiggian, you would argue with a sign post. Again:

    And if they can do a little better than break even, and do so in a way that seems reasonable, they're happy to do that.

    The PP Doc said what she said.

    Parent

    So if they receive a penny more in (none / 0) (#119)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 12:58:03 PM EST
    reimbursement for their cost of maintaining the tissue so that it can be used, that would be more than breaking even, that would constitute an illegal sale?

    LOL!

    You still haven't answered why the legislators mentioned in the MM piece didn't speak up earlier when they saw the edited videos in question.

    Your lack of a response to that one is most telling, Jim.

    Parent

    Smelling and telling??? (none / 0) (#123)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 02:32:39 PM EST
    You made another false claim and was called on it.

    Please don't go away mad.

    Just go away.

    Parent

    Trying to censor me, Jim? (none / 0) (#129)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 03:47:56 PM EST
    All you have is a statement of possible gain.

    Gain, as any accountant will tell you, is not always the same as profit.

    But your concern has been noted and graded.

    After a while, crocodile.

    Parent

    No Mordiggian (none / 0) (#135)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 04:37:22 PM EST
    I'm just saying quit following me.

    Go away. Make whoppie with someone else.

    Parent

    Can't stand the heat? (none / 0) (#178)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 05:56:09 AM EST


    Parent
    They don't do more than break even (none / 0) (#114)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:17:42 AM EST
    they get reimbursed.  To act like better than breaking even is some sort of high crime is something that you should be too smart to fall for.

    Let's be fair and balanced and see what PP has to say about it:

    "In health care, patients sometimes want to donate tissue to scientific research that can help lead to medical breakthroughs, such as treatments and cures for serious diseases. Women at Planned Parenthood who have abortions are no different. At several of our health centers, we help patients who want to donate tissue for scientific research, and we do this just like every other high-quality health care provider does -- with full, appropriate consent from patients and under the highest ethical and legal standards. There is no financial benefit for tissue donation for either the patient or for Planned Parenthood.  In some instances, actual costs, such as the cost to transport tissue to leading research centers, are reimbursed, which is standard across the medical field.

    "A well funded group established for the purpose of damaging Planned Parenthood's mission and services has promoted a heavily edited, secretly recorded videotape that falsely portrays Planned Parenthood's participation in tissue donation programs that support lifesaving scientific research.  Similar false accusations have been put forth by opponents of abortion services for decades. These groups have been widely discredited and their claims fall apart on closer examination, just as they do in this case."
    - See more at: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/statement-from-planned-parenthood- on-new-undercover-video#sthash.PZXRHMOP.dpuf

     I suppose now you want criminal prosecutions for every misstatement of fact or misrepresentation that takes place during a business lunch in this country.


    Parent

    Jeralyn, I've used the Geek Squad ... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 03:36:36 PM EST
    ... in the past, both at home and in the office, and I've been pleased with their service. They do make site calls and are actually pretty reasonable. Their nearest location to you in Denver is at 4100 E. Mexico Ave. (Best Buy?) Their number is (303) 758-5805.

    If you're not into the Geek Squad, there's ContactPC at 12503 E. Euclid Dr., No. 35. Their number is (720) 348-0398, and from what I could see on their webpage, they also do "house calls."

    Good luck with the PC.

    The Geek Squad is overrated. (none / 0) (#45)
    by oculus on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 08:10:18 PM EST


    Parent
    That's why I listed another vendor for her. (none / 0) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:04:38 PM EST
    I happen to like Geek Squad. I've used them on multiple occasions in the past and I've never had any problems with them. That said, I do know a few others outside of Hawaii who really don't care for them.

    One big complaint I've heard about Geek Squad on the mainland has been its fees for service. I find them reasonably priced out here, but then almost everything is more expensive in Hawaii than on the mainland so in that regard, their prices are competitive.

    It could well be that the company may not necessarily maintain consistent standards of service and personnel throughout the country. Thus, Geek Squad could be great out here, but generally suck in SoCal.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Thanks, Don. That's very close (none / 0) (#69)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 05:32:52 AM EST
    I think I will call them. I'm out of ideas.

    Parent
    Jeralyn, you could try... (none / 0) (#175)
    by unitron on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 03:35:09 AM EST
    ...accessing Device Manager in Safe Mode (assuming you can find it--it gets buried another layer deeper with each new version of Windows--in XP right click on My Computer, then click on Properties, then click on the Hardware tab), and see if you can find Display Adapters, and see what's under that and try re-installing the driver for it.

    Back when XP was new and I was still running 98SE, the guy behind us at the time had a new Dell and one day his display was just blotches of color.

    Turned out it had somehow "forgotten" about the video card and reverted back to the generic lowest common denominator video driver, and the screen was the 640 x 480 8 color version of what was being sent to the card as 32 bit color 1024 x 1280 or somewhere in that neighborhood.

    I forget exactly how I snuck up on it, but basically had it re-scan to figure out what video card it had and to re-install the specific driver (which was already on the guy's hard drive somewhere)for that card, and that put things back the way they're supposed to be.

    You could also check any power saving settings that might be blanking the screen--Windows has a way of resetting those to what they think you should want rather than what you specified.

    Parent

    The Mediamatters (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 05:36:00 PM EST
    piece has PP admitting they made a profit.

    That means you sold something.

    Anyway, the investigation is on. As it should be.

    Oh Lordy (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by sj on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 05:45:40 PM EST
    The Mediamatters (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 04:36:00 PM MDT

    piece has PP admitting they made a profit.

    That means you sold something.


    I'm sticking with noting that this is such a clear case of the False Analogy Fallacy and leave it at that. Those whose critical thinking skills are engaged will understand.

    For the rest of you, no amount of additional explanation from me will make it any clearer. So you may carry on arguing with yourself. I'm not saying anything more.

    Parent

    The only thing false is your false claim that (none / 0) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:20:24 PM EST
    there is an analogy.

    a comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

    They have admitted to making a profit. Profits are made when something is sold.

    Two completely separate actions with no comparison.

    Parent

    Why haven't you cited that admission, (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Anne on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:31:04 PM EST
    with an embedded quote and link?  

    Because you can't.  Because you have terminal problems with basic reading comprehension.  Your nervous tic of constant lols about things that aren't remotely funny reduces you to the level of a buffoon.

    Go away.

    Parent

    See my reply to yman (none / 0) (#96)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:31:34 AM EST


    Parent
    Hey Rube! (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 05:54:17 PM EST
    Here's the link to the article, now keep trying to argue that they make money off the body parts in question.

    Oh, and also, from the same Lik

    UPDATE: CQ Roll Call reported that at least two Republican members of the House Pro-Life Caucus, Reps. Trent Franks (R-AZ) and Tim Murphy (R-PA) -- who is also chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee that is conducting an investigation following the video -- viewed the video attacking Planned Parenthood weeks before CMP officially released it.

    Gee, could there be some sort of politics involved here?  Why didn't they open up their investigation earlier, when had already seen the tape?

    That's my last response in this thread.  Find somebody else to blog-clog it with you.


    Parent

    Mordiggian, keep (2.00 / 1) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:11:47 PM EST
    insulting. Keep running your mouth and embarrassing yourself.

    They're caught.

    Too bad. So sad.

    Parent

    LOL! (none / 0) (#65)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:47:01 PM EST


    Parent
    No, they don't (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Yman on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 10:14:08 PM EST
    The Media Matters piece says no such thing, which is precisely why you didn't provide a link.

    There are two articles on MM discussing the issue.  Neither one "has PP admitting they made a profit.

    Media Calls Out Deceptively Edited Video Claiming To Show Planned Parenthood "Selling Aborted Baby Parts"

    3 Deceptive Edits In The Video Claiming Planned Parenthood Is "Selling Aborted Baby Parts"

    Your newfound respect for MM is interesting, but you'll need to go back to Faux News or wingnut blogs if you want to peddle lies.

    Parent

    It is there. (none / 0) (#98)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:32:21 AM EST
    You just don't want to look.

    Parent
    Then linking to it shouldn't be beyond (none / 0) (#99)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:35:26 AM EST
    your powers to do here.

    Show your cards or fold, Jim.

    Parent

    Ha! (none / 0) (#40)
    by sj on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 06:20:49 PM EST
    could be :)

    Fall out from the Iran deal (none / 0) (#41)
    by Green26 on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 07:00:45 PM EST
    Saudi Arabia not happy. Planning to step up military action in the region before Iran gets its Billions and gets its economy going. SA notes that Iran is destabilizing Yemen, Syria and Iraq. SA developing better relations with Russia and China.

    "...the military component of the Saudi offensive will include the use of special forces on the ground in Yemen, and a potentially widened use of Saudi and allied Sunni air power in Syria."

    "...Saudis are cultivating better diplomatic ties with Russia and China...."

    "While many Arab leaders, including UAE President Sheikh Khalifa, were quick to welcome Tuesday's historic deal bringing Iran back into the international fold, Saudi Arabia's silence spoke volumes."

    Article.

    Almost (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 08:28:02 PM EST
    all the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. I could care less that they're upset.

    Parent
    And Iran runs (2.00 / 1) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:14:07 PM EST
    Hezbollah..... and has 4 Americans prisoner...something they proved they know how in '79....

    Is that why you are happy Obama gave them everything they wanted????

    Parent

    Get the (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 07:31:37 AM EST
    boulder off your shoulder. It's not 1979 anymore. This is perpetually a problem for the GOP. They are stuck in the past.

    Are you aware that Iran is fighting ISIS? So I guess after all the screeching about ISIS you don't think they're that bad anymore?

    The GOP is just mad because it interferes with their plans to repeat what they did in Iraq in Iran.

    Parent

    It is Iran who is chanting (none / 0) (#136)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 04:38:52 PM EST
    Death to the USA.

    Not the Repubs.

    Now, you know that. So why defend Iran??

    Parent

    And the Repubs (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 07:28:18 PM EST
    here are shouting death to Iran. The GOP and the mullahs have the same goal. Both have taken leave of their senses but that's what rabid fundamentalism does.

    Parent
    Scratch (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 06:52:44 AM EST
    the surface in Iraq and you will find Iran is our best ally in the fight against ISIS. If, for example, we were to take your preferred course of action in Iraq, Iran's  cooperation would be beneficial their hostility would be extremely dangerous.

    The arc of history is changing Jim, neither we nor the world can afford to have Iran remain a pariah state. Deal or no deal the Chinese, the Russians and probably much of the euro-zone were going to drop sanctions. We can not sit back and allow the likes of Putin to gain influence in the region, that's just geopolitics 101.

    Their hard-line dead-enders shout "death to America" ours sing "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran". Neo-con fervor and craven politics over here. Religous fervor and craven politics over there. It's way past time we put all that BS in the rear view mirror.

     

    Parent

    As long as Iran is (none / 0) (#193)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 08:18:51 AM EST
    killing gays, among other nasties, holding Americans, supporting terrorists and chanting Death to Israel and America it will be a pariah state.

    You are known by who you support.

    Parent

    We have (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 09:55:42 AM EST
    always dealt with or even supported human rights violators (see Iran, Shah of). China was horrible when Nixon went to them, pariahs we were told, since then their HRs have certainly improved somewhat and the world has undoubtedly been a safer, calmer place.

    Jim you of all people should realize that we can not base our FP on such bleeding hearts concepts as Human Rights. While hugely important they can not be one of the main drivers of our geo-political strategy, that's not the way the game is played.

    If we are truly an "exceptional" nation we must lead these pariah states back into the fold, luring them in with the carrot of economic opportunity and security, not the stick of war.

    Parent

    Sort of like (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by Yman on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 11:13:38 AM EST
    ... the Shah of Iran, Saddam's Iraq in the 1980s or the Mujahideen, all of whom you supported?

    Huh.

    Your newfound outrage at "supporting pariahs" is duly noted.

    Parent

    The Saudis don't support it, and (none / 0) (#197)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 08:38:11 AM EST
    They behead people there, I don't know if gays are included t I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

    Parent
    FK (none / 0) (#43)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 07:09:50 PM EST
    the Saudis, they are snakes.

    Parent
    Good!!! (none / 0) (#44)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 07:22:08 PM EST
    Let Russia and China enjoy the curse of better diplomatic ties with the Saudis for some time. Let them share the pain with us!

    Parent
    beating heart (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 07:03:15 PM EST
    made from stem cells in vitro

    That.... is pretty cool. (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by desertswine on Fri Jul 17, 2015 at 09:36:54 PM EST


    Parent
    7/21 Frontline on PBS ... (none / 0) (#66)
    by magster on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 12:16:48 AM EST
    on El Chapo.

    Cuban Update (none / 0) (#77)
    by ragebot on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 08:08:26 AM EST
    link

    Quotation from the article

    "Some Cubans I met were more up-to-date on HBO's Game of Thrones than I was."

    I just saw yet another group (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 08:58:21 AM EST
    of talking heads explaining that Ted Cruz is making nice with Donald because he assumes he will flame out and he will inherit his support.
    IMO, no.  That's not it at all.
    I think he is angling for the Independent VP spot.
    I always, until Donald, thought was the most likely to mount the independent anti establishment presidential run in 2016.
    He is a smart opportunist.  VP would be just fine.  And think about it.  Who would be a better choice for Donald's VP considering his past "liberal" views might be made an issue?
    And (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 10:13:25 AM EST
    who is more likely to echo and amplify every baths!t thing he says?

    Parent
    Fun and games (none / 0) (#100)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:37:15 AM EST
    The Huffington (and puffingtion) Post has announced that it will no longer cover Trump in the news section...they have moved it to the entertainment pages...

    Trump must be deliriously happy... Now all the Low Information voters will know about him.

     

    Yes, he'll attract the much-sought-after (none / 0) (#110)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 10:47:08 AM EST
    side-b**b watchers constituency.

    Parent
    It (none / 0) (#112)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 11:05:11 AM EST
    should be a slam dunk for the Donald, once he adds the hordes of low info Huff Post readers to the high info Fox viewers he will be unstoppable.

    Parent
    They already do (none / 0) (#187)
    by Yman on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 08:10:11 AM EST
    He's running as a Republican.

    Parent
    Any tips re how to (none / 0) (#121)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 02:00:58 PM EST
    get the red typeface indication for new comments on iPad mini?  (I do get it on iPhone.).

    Thanks.

    There was a recent iOS update (none / 0) (#122)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 02:30:07 PM EST
    To include the rebranded Apple Music formerly iTunes, so that would be Step One if you haven't updated your mini in the last two weeks or so.

    Step Two,would be to try it in Chrome from the App Store, as it's free, and does run a bit faster than Safari.  However,  on the minus side, if you open more than two or three tabs you could crash it, as it does on my iPad sometImes, so I would only use it for one thread at a time when looking for new comments.

    Capt. Howdy has a mini, so he might offer some tips if he sees your comment.

    Also, Apple Music allows you to listen to different works by a given composer, so,if you want a Liszt afternoon or a J. S. Bach evening, you can do so with a few commercials thrown in between long works, like when I listen to Bartok or Liszt sometimes.

    Parent

    Thanks. (none / 0) (#124)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 02:42:27 PM EST
    I recently heard all of the Liszt Transcendental Etudes performed. Beautifully. But 2 and a half hours of Liszt is too much at a single sitting.

    Parent
    They come and go (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 03:35:22 PM EST
    for me.   Sometimes there.   Sometimes not.

    Parent
    What you will (none / 0) (#130)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 03:56:07 PM EST
    They have composer channels on Calm Radio that I can listen to on the TuneIn app, but you have to subscribe to the stream in order to avoid their frequent commercials.  They even have a Shostakovitch channel, so there must be an audience out there for long pieces of Soviet-era orchestral works :-)

    Parent
    What you will (none / 0) (#131)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 03:56:07 PM EST
    They have composer channels on Calm Radio that I can listen to on the TuneIn app, but you have to subscribe to the stream in order to avoid their frequent commercials.  They even have a Shostakovitch channel, so there must be an audience out there for long pieces of Soviet-era orchestral works :-)

    Parent
    Not if you offset it with ... (none / 0) (#134)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 04:36:52 PM EST
    oculus: "I recently heard all of the Liszt Transcendental Etudes performed. Beautifully. But 2 and a half hours of Liszt is too much at a single sitting."

    ... a comparable amount of Pink Floyd and / or Frank Zappa.
    ;-D

    But seriously, though, I wish I had more patience for classical music and opera, so that I could enjoy it as much as you do. I mean, if you like what you like musically and artistically, why impose limits on your intake thereof?

    (That comment does not apply to fans of Celine Dion, Mariah Carey and that almost terminally maudlin newcomer Sam Smith, because the sensory ingestion of such prodigious amounts of aural Velveeta could require a subsequent and rather lengthy hospitalization, in order to cure one of the resultant catatonic state.)

    But then, what do I know? My tastes in music are rather eclectic, at best.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Well, Donald, my tastes in music (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Zorba on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 04:55:19 PM EST
    are also rather eclectic.  I like rock (especially classic rock), jazz, blues, ragtime, folk music, and even some country.  Oh, and of course, also Greek and Middle Eastern music.
    But I do adore classical.
    I could listen to any of those (and I do) for a long, long time.
    Give yourself a chance to enjoy some classical music and opera.
    ;-)

    Parent
    I do try. (none / 0) (#160)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 09:12:12 PM EST
    It's not that I can't or don't appreciate the role of classical music in our society, because I do. I've been supporting the Hawaii Symphony as a volunteer grant writer, after its musicians left the old Honolulu Symphony and formed their own 501c(3) nonprofit organization. We get free season tickets as a result, which my wife mostly uses with a friend of hers.

    It's just that I find myself getting impatient with both classical music and opera as I'm listening to it, which is likely because I really don't know as much about either as I probably should. What I need is a classical music education course, so I can understand what I'm listening to and why it's important. Aficionados like oculus have that background, which enhances its meaning to them.

    Aloha.


    Parent

    Liszt is rather strong music (none / 0) (#141)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 05:00:49 PM EST
    and after a while it would be like the musical equivalent of too many cups of coffee in a couple of hours.

    Parent
    My mini tells me the (none / 0) (#147)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 06:05:34 PM EST
    software is up-to-date iOS 8.4.

    Parent
    It's a bug (none / 0) (#148)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 06:42:15 PM EST
    i don't think there is anything you can do.   I have had this problem for a long time.

    Parent
    Really hard to scroll past the blog- (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 08:51:54 PM EST
    clogs. B

    Parent
    Donald Trump, who did not (none / 0) (#140)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 04:56:13 PM EST
    serve in the military during the Vietnwm War (deferments followed by F4 classification), swiftboats Sen. McCain.  

    McCain's Navy Career (5.00 / 3) (#165)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 10:46:55 PM EST
    ...was an embarrassment, save for one thing, he was a tough little bastard who survived some extremely rough treatment.  And he has built his career on that basis, plus ditching the old wife and marrying big money that was conveniently connected to politics.

    A third generation USNA graduate whose father and grandfather were both admirals, he was a legacy admission who graduated inches from the bottom of his class.  Instead of being given a command, we was given a fighter plane because he was small, feisty and coordinated.

    Great.  But he was also a victim of his famous temper, went off the reservation a few times and wrecked a few planes.  The Forrestall disaster was due to a missile fired by McCain's plane on the deck.  McCain was not charged with any malfeasance.

    Shot down while he was flying in unapproved airspace, i.e. "off the reservation," he would have been court-martialed had he made it back.  But his survival against impressive odds made that a public relations impossibility, so he became a hero.

    In many regards I agree with Mr. Trump that McCain is an idiot who got lucky after being extremely UNlucky.

    But I'm not a Republican and I'm not running for president and I don't need votes from people who admire McCain.

    Popcorn.

    Parent

    All this is true. But McCain (none / 0) (#166)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 10:55:33 PM EST
    turned down an invitation to go home from the Hanoi Hilton b/c his colleagues were not afforded the same opportunity. Heroic.

    Parent
    Never said he wasn't (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 12:14:27 AM EST
    tough.  Clearly he is, and maybe that famous temper carried him through the rough times.

    But tough isn't smart and it isn't honest, it's just tough, which I will grant him.  In some respects toughness is better public relations than smart or honest, c.f. Christie, Chris.

    Parent

    Not my job to defend McCain (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 07:27:37 AM EST
    that said he has done some admirable things as a senator.   Calling out that crazy lady for calling the president an Arab.   Won't see that again.   Might have cost him the election.

    Also he has from the beginning been to most consistent and vocal opponent of torture certainly in the Republican Party.

    There are many reasons to criticize McCain.  What Trump said was idiotic.  It was the level of bad high school discourse he has made famous.   It really be the end of his race for the presidency but IMO it won't be.  

    Parent

    The '08 election was already lost to McCain ... (none / 0) (#203)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 11:41:01 AM EST
    at that late point in the campaign, and he likely knew it but was playing out the string anyway. The woman was so appallingly racist that it jolted his own sensibilities, and his verbal smackdown of her was simply the right thing to do.

    Parent
    I honor John McCain's loyalty to his comrades ... (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 12:59:42 AM EST
    ... and the fact that he conducted himself honorably while serving his country in captivity during the Vietnam War.

    But in my personal opinion, the word "hero" and its derivatives have become so overused in reference to those who are otherwise simply doing their duty, that their meaning has become trivialized almost to the point of inconsequentiality.

    Col. John Paul Vann (Ret.), who lost his life at the Battle of Kontum in June 1972 while serving as a volunteer advisor to the South Vietnamese army, had earlier gone over the heads of his own military superiors at tremendous personal risk to call public attention to their gross mismanagement of the war effort.

    Col. Vann is someone whom I consider a true hero, because in spite of his own very real personal doubts about America's mission in Vietnam, he volunteered for combat during the North Vietnamese army's 1972 spring offensive, and lost his life as a consequence while trying to save others under heavy fire.

    John McCain's personal conduct while under great duress as a prisoner of war in Hanoi was honorable, and his ability to survive is entirely admirable. But when all is said and done, I have a hard time seeing him and his fellow POWs as heroes, at least in comparison to Col. Vann.

    Rather, I tend to consider McCain, et al., as victims of the folly that was America's overall conduct of the Vietnam War, by virtue of their unnecessarily extended incarceration, which was due in no small part to the duplicity, malfeasance and ineptitude of their military and civilian commanders in Saigon, Honolulu and Washington.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    IMO the reasonable comments you (none / 0) (#184)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 07:37:23 AM EST
    yourself and Rider give us the outlines of the way and the reason Trump will survive this and keep on chuggin.

    Btw
    The base hates McCain.  When he left the stage after those remarks he got a longer ovation than any one else participating so they say.

    Parent

    The "base" loves blowhards... (none / 0) (#194)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 08:27:01 AM EST
    Blowhards and empty promises.

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#196)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 08:34:24 AM EST
    if there was only one out there pandering to them!

    Parent
    What he said was something like (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 05:22:02 PM EST
    whats so great about being captured.  I like people who were not captured.

    What does a sane person even say to that?  Seriously.

    This is going to be one heck of a presidential campaign.   Unlike you, if I remember correctly, I don't think Donald is going anywhere.  I think he is just getting started.  

    We might get the government we deserve but candidates are like products.  They fill a demand.  If there was not a market for what he is selling he would not be leading the pack.

    Parent

    I haven't ventured an opinion (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 05:27:08 PM EST
    here re Trump's chances. I see Walker got 250 people to his rally in Davenport IA.

    Parent
    Defining terms (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 05:32:51 PM EST
    chances

    He has no chance of being president.

    He has a very slim chance of being the republican nominee - approaching zero.

    He has an excellent chance of running as an independent and throwing the whole process into a cocked hat.

    I think Trump is so unpredictable you can't even make assumptions like it will come down to him and someone else like Jeb or Walker.  The only predictable thing is that the first Republican debate will get record audiences.

    Parent

    In (none / 0) (#145)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 05:30:52 PM EST
    a normal political universe this would mark the beginning of the end of Trumps march to glory. I predict he has reached his high water mark, fortunately for Democrats(also comedians and talking heads), he will not go quietly. Then again this is the GOP, who knows how the prion disease will manifest itself.

    Parent
    Trump said, (none / 0) (#149)
    by lentinel on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 07:00:39 PM EST
    "Perhaps he's a war hero, but right now he's said some very bad things about a lot of people."

    Personally, I find it difficult to disagree with that.

    Even if one were to consider his capture and "harsh interrogation" during his term of military service to be "heroic", it has zero to do with what he has been up to for these last decades.

    As a presidential candidate, he gave us Palin and "Bomb bomb Iran!"

    As a Senator, he has continued to be one relentless firebrand for war.

    Parent

    The rest (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 07:07:25 PM EST
    Appearing on Saturday at the Family Leadership Summit in Ames, Iowa, the real estate mogul took his running feud with Arizona Sen. John McCain to a new level.
    Story Continued Below

    "He's not a war hero," said Trump. "He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured."



    Parent
    Also (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 07:11:22 PM EST
    its not about what he's done since.   It's about his being imprisoned and tortured.   Something Donald Trump and apparently you are clueless about.
    If you are defending Trump because of your knee jerk it's sad.

    Parent
    Btw (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 07:18:39 PM EST
    every republican candidate has condemned Trumps remarks.

    Oops!  Not every one!

    But he declined to speak ill of his presidential rival, with whom he met earlier this week in New York after becoming the most notable 2016 hopeful to side with Trump over his controversial remarks on immigration. Instead, Cruz on Saturday blamed the media for trying to pit Republicans against each other.

    "You know I recognize that folks in the press love to see Republican-on-Republican violence, and so you want me to say something bad about Donald Trump, or bad about John McCain or bad about anyone else," he said. "I'm not going to do it."

    WHAT a surprise.

    Parent

    "Violence"--a huge overstatement. (none / 0) (#158)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 08:50:43 PM EST


    Parent
    Speaking of Swiftboating (none / 0) (#164)
    by Palli on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 10:08:54 PM EST
    There is this 2005 letter from Gov. Jeb (before acquiring the exclamation point) written to Col. Day, one of the "swifties" :

    "...As someone who truly understands the risk of standing up for something, I simply cannot express in words how much I value their willingness to stand up against John Kerry...

    http://oliverwillis.com
     July 18, 2015

    Parent
    Doctors Without Borders (none / 0) (#144)
    by ragebot on Sat Jul 18, 2015 at 05:27:09 PM EST
    weighs in on TPP

    Whats the problem? (none / 0) (#182)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 07:27:18 AM EST
    It's obviously a win-win situation. Big Pharma wins by making ton's of money. The people win because big Pharma can develop better drugs that they still cannot afford to buy.

    I am certain that the TPP is stuffed full of these win-win goodies.

    On a related note, I have seen ads on CNN supporting TPP, the voice over sounds like the actress on the Viagra ads. Coincidence? I think not.

    lol - they should run the TPP audio (none / 0) (#192)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 08:17:32 AM EST
    over the Viagra video.  "Wanna firm up your trade, boys?  TPP is the pill for you..."

    Parent
    When (none / 0) (#185)
    by lentinel on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 07:47:35 AM EST
    Trump cast aspersions upon Mr. McCain, all hell broke loose. Most Republicans exploded in a frenzy of self-righteous pomposity - spewing their usual pretense of loving the troops - veterans of which they have routinely left to languish without proper care or treatment.

    It is in their interest to do so.
    With the exception of Jeb, Trump is reported to be polling way ahead of the other nudniks.

    And, just as predictably, Democrats and people on the left have scurried to condemn this aspersion upon the character of Mr.McCain. It is in their interest to do so. A further illustration of the nuttiness in the Republican party.

    However, in the same context, Trump characterized Hillary Clinton as "the worst Secretary of State in the history of the United States."

    Curiously, the interviewers to whom he expressed this opinion, including the clueless Anderson Cooper, said absolutely ZERO in response. Not even a, "What do you mean?"

    Equally curious is the lack of response from people on the left.

    If there has been a similar response to the attack upon Mr. McCain, from Democrats or Republicans, left or right, I have not seen it.

    Here or anywhere.

    The media folks just sit there, looking somewhere between dumbfounded and just plain dumb.

    I'm not even saying that I have a response.

    "ZERO in response" (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 08:14:05 AM EST
    That's how they pre-reserve comfy seats at White House Press conferences.

    Parent
    This (none / 0) (#188)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 08:10:51 AM EST
    is just another manifestation of the Clinton Rules. The media expects everyone to attack Hillary and they surely do not feel to defend her in any way.

    I think most Democrats are playing it right, studiously ignoring his attacks on themselves and gleefully piling on when he creates problems within the GOP.

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#190)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 08:14:38 AM EST
    IMO if you are equating what Trump said about Hillary, which was certainly no worse than he has said against nearly every republican candidate, with what he said about McCain you are missing the point.

    And did it ever occur to you that it's possible some of the criticism from the left and even from the right is because they actually think it's a stupid vile thing to say.

    I think it was a stupid vile thing to say.  That opinion is only tangentially related to John McCain.

    Parent

    Netroots train wreck (none / 0) (#195)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 08:33:07 AM EST
    what happened at the net roots meeting this weekend was IMO more interesting and likely more consequential than Trump de Sole.

    Sanders and O'Malley chased off the stage at Netroots

    I don't even get what happened. (none / 0) (#198)
    by NYShooter on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 09:32:48 AM EST
    And, the article gave so little facts, other than the two candidates didn't respond exactly the way the crowd wanted, so they all started booing.

    I, especially, don't understand what their problem was with Bernie. I mean, was he supposed to have a whole speech prepared to respond to one slogan?

    In any case, I've been reading more, and more, that big name entertainers, and other public figure aren't doing college gigs any more. They claim that political correctness has gotten so out of control, they're afraid to say anything because, regardless of whatever they say, it's bound to offend someone.

    Parent

    Perfect is the enemy of the good, ... (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 11:51:50 AM EST
    ... for the simple fact that nobody's perfect.

    Parent
    There is also an article in today's (none / 0) (#204)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 11:49:51 AM EST
    NYT online. The protestors kept chanting while Sanders tried to respond to them. The Netroots organizer of the panel decided to finish the session 15 minutes early.  The protestors represented various organizations advocating against law enforcement v AAs and for helping AAs. Lots of the session attendees wore buttons and shirts supporting Sanders.

    Parent
    Hillary (none / 0) (#201)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 10:40:20 AM EST
    was criticized before the event because she wasn't going. Looks smart in hindsight. What a mess.

    Parent
    200,000 veterans die waiting for care (none / 0) (#206)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 12:30:55 PM EST
    i just recorded all the gab feasts again and FFed to watch the Trump coverage.

    I'm not saying Trump planned this. But if he didn't he should have.  

    I just watched the Trump interview on abc and he is turning the conversation from McCain to the treatment of veterans.   Will it work?  He's pretty good.  And he certainly has a point.  When 200,000+ die waiting for care it's hard to argue McCain or anyone else is "doing anything for them".

    And the insulting McCain part, the tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth over this outrage was something to behold.   McCain is the golden boy of the beltway media.  The reaction was entirely predictable.  You know who the only people more hated than the gubmint is for Trump supporters?   It would the beltway media that has fawned over McCain for decades.

    Watch the abc interview.

    In response to BarnBabe (none / 0) (#207)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 01:02:30 PM EST
    Here's some more information on the Chattanooga shooter (knowing that a fifth person has died as a result of his injuries). [Bold mine]

    CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. -- A few months before he killed five U.S. service members in a shooting rampage here, the 24-year-old gunman, who often joked that he was just an "Arabian redneck," was smoking marijuana with friends.

    It was getting late and Mohammad Youssef Abdulazeez had work the next morning at his new job some two hours away in Franklin, said a close friend who was with him that night and spent several hours with him in the days leading up to the shooting.

    Abdulazeez dropped off a couple of his friends at their homes on the night in April, snorted some crushed caffeine pills and started to drive.

    A little after 2 a.m., Abdulazeez was arrested for driving under the influence, according to court papers, an incident sharply at odds with blog posts in which he portrayed himself as a devout Muslim and his existence in this world a "prison of monotony and routine."

    The portrait emerging of Abdulazeez isn't one of a committed Muslim or vengeful jihadist, but rather an aimless young man who came from a troubled home and struggled to hold down a job after college, said friends and law enforcement officials.

    SNIP

    ...he often seemed to struggle with his faith. Abdulazeez was fasting for the Ramadan holiday, which requires Muslims not to eat or drink during daylight hours. But he doesn't appear to have regularly attended his parents' mosque in the months leading up to the shooting, according to members of the Islamic Society of Greater Chattanooga.

    "The father came regularly. The mother did occasionally," said Bassam Issa, the president of the society, which includes the mosque. "We really didn't know much about the boy. He wasn't around."

    Abdulazeez also struggled to find work after he graduated from the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga with an engineering degree. He briefly landed a job at a nuclear power plant in Ohio but was dismissed when he failed a background check. He told friends he had failed the company's drug test after smoking marijuana.
    No Repack and somewhat, Donald (none / 0) (#209)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 02:18:27 PM EST
    Repack, this is not true.

    The Forrestall disaster was due to a missile fired by McCain's plane on the deck.  McCain was not charged with any malfeasance.

    This is what happened.

    At about 10:50 (local time) on 29 July, while preparations for the second strike of the day were being made, an unguided 5.0 in (127.0 mm) Mk-32 "Zuni" rocket, one of four contained in an LAU-10 underwing rocket pod mounted on an F-4B Phantom II (believed to be aircraft No. 110 from VF-11[1]), accidentally fired due to an electrical power surge during the switch from external to internal power. The surge, and a missing rocket safety pin, which would have prevented the fail surge, as well as a decision to plug in the "pigtail" system early to increase the number of takeoffs from the carrier, allowed the rocket to launch. (see below).

    A drawing of the stern of Forrestal showing the spotting of aircraft at the time. Likely source of the Zuni was F-4 No. 110. White's and McCain's aircraft (A-4s No. 405 and 416, respectively) are in the right hand circle.

    The rocket flew across the flight deck, striking a wing-mounted external fuel tank on an A-4E Skyhawk awaiting launch,[1] aircraft No. 405 from VA-46, piloted by Lieutenant Commander Fred D. White.[2][1

    Donald, I agree that the word "hero" is over used.

    McCain being shot down and captured was not heroic. His actions while a prisoner, particularly  his refusal to accept being returned home before others and not bending to the torture by the North Vietnamese was heroic.

    But comparing his, and the others, as victims and less than Vann is where we part. Both men were patriots. Neither were heroes in the beginning. Both were in the end.

    I can feel Jim's dilemma already (none / 0) (#210)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Jul 19, 2015 at 03:24:04 PM EST
    Trump called McCain less than a hero and more of a zero.

    Too bad Trump never served.  Oh, that's right, it only counts when someone is a Far Leftie commentator here, and not when someone is running for President.

    Hope this clear things up!

    Let's talk about Trump and McCain (none / 0) (#211)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 20, 2015 at 08:52:07 AM EST
    He certainly keeps things stirred, eh? But if you watch this video you will find that Trump says McCain is a hero because he was captured.

    Some of you will think that I am supposed to be disturbed over that. Read what I wrote to Donald in a previous thread. I pointed out McCain is a hero because of his actions after he was captured, not because he was a pilot or was captured. Being a pilot is hazardous and being shot down was known to happen. Just as flaming out during a cat shot and crashing into the water, or a thousand other disasters, happens. Pilots are brave, tough and highly skilled but they are not heroes just because they strap an airplane to their butts and challenge death on a daily basis. It is part of the job.

    I am not pleased with Trump's comment that he likes people who aren't captured. That was not necessary but it is just Trump pushing his "winner" meme. Trump did note his previous support for McCain.

    Just as I wrote in this blog during the 2004 election that I honored John Kerry's service in Vietnam his actions as a war protester opened him up to criticism. McCain's attacks on Trump and the people who attended the meeting opened McCain up to criticism.

    Trump's opponents will make the most of this.

    And while I enjoy watching Trump kick over the ant hill, Walker remains my favorite.

    Friday Open Thread | 206 comments (206 topical)