home

Monday Night Open Thread

I have been so wrapped up in following ISIS this week, I've forgotten to post open threads Here's one, all topics welcome.

< CBS Poll: 75% Say War in Iraq Wasn't Worth the Cost | World Cup Day 13 >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    house votes on nsa funding (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:08:36 AM EST
    In a late night session, the House of Representatives voted 293 to 123 to pass an amendment to a Department of Defense appropriations bill that would cut off all funds for two of the agency's most embattled activities: First, using the 702 provision of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to perform searches of collected surveillance data that target Americans, and second, asking hardware makers and software developers to build backdoors into their tools designed to give the agency access to users' communications. On that second count, the amendment specifically forbids funding for any agency attempt "to mandate or request that a person redesign its product or service to facilitate...electronic surveillance."

    link

    Tell me more about why a persons religion (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:50:47 AM EST
    Is NOT a valid reason to vote against them

    The Mormon Church Just Excommunicated Another Feminist

    In 2010, Mormon writer Kathryn Soper identified the "core conflict" of Mormon feminism, writing, "By definition, feminists challenge male authority; and by definition, Mormons defer to it." A few years later, my friend and human rights lawyer Kate Kelly began to challenge the men, which is why, today, Kelly was excommunicated by the Mormon Church.

    Kelly is the founder of Ordain Women, a group asking Mormon church leaders to take the matter of women's ordination, which the church does not allow, "to the Lord in prayer," much as President Spencer Kimball did in 1978 regarding the ordination of black men, who, prior to that, couldn't hold the priesthood or enter LDS temples. Kelly was tried for apostasy in absentia by a three-man panel in her old congregation in Virginia (she currently lives in Utah) and has now been kicked out of the church she has been active in all her life.  



    You should (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:12:46 AM EST
    As a teenager in an ecumenical youth group (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Farmboy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:38:48 PM EST
    we were "hosted" one Sunday evening at an IFB church. Nothing like getting told that those of us who were Protestant might not burn in Hell (as a Friend I'm toast), but "those Papists" could have the trap door leading straight down open at any time. Best not to stand too close.

    The way they smiled while telling us this was scary. Even scarier is that some of the IFB youth leaders were teachers at our school.

    Parent

    God yes (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:48:44 PM EST
    The beautific smile.  I just threw up a little in my mouth.

    Parent
    Later-I just ate (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:17:05 AM EST
    Tho I don't really need to.  I live it.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:44:08 AM EST
    this really is more of are you in a cult kind of thing.


    Parent
    I peeked (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 11:19:08 AM EST
    I thought we discussed the fact that I worked for an organization, county senior services, that was run by those people.

    They are big around here.  Can't go out of the house without seeing of of those stupid demon skirts.

    Parent

    I just (none / 0) (#54)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 11:33:55 AM EST
    found it interesting that John was able to distill it all down and talk about how they were a cult. I was kind of unsure about the whole cult thing but yeah, now I'm sure it is a cult.

    Parent
    When I lived (none / 0) (#55)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 11:37:25 AM EST
    in Greenville, SC, the whole city was innundated with these cultists. So I can appreciate what you have to go through somewhat. I even ended up having one of the cultists work for me. She was not hired by me but by my boss to work for me. Apparently the cults put a lot of pressure on businesses to hire cult members. I know for a fact this cult had "approved" businesses that their members could shop at and the businesses probably lived in fear of being taken off the "approved" list.

    Parent
    Having lovely Szechuan green beans (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:01:46 PM EST
    For lunch. Right off the vine with home grown free range pork.

    Mmmmmm.


    Parent

    That would be the upside (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:04:41 PM EST
    To dealing with the skirt pushing morons.

    Parent
    You've got (none / 0) (#62)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:09:20 PM EST
    pigs running around your back yard?      ;-)

    Parent
    Not me (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:14:17 PM EST
    My sister.  And they are not exactly in their back yard.
    They have horses sheep lots of cows and pigs.

    Parent
    Recipe, please, Capt. (none / 0) (#69)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:34:01 PM EST
    I go green bean crazy every summer and am in need of new recipes.

    Parent
    Started here (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:50:01 PM EST
    an improvised a little.

    Some ginger and basil and hot oil

    Parent

    Try working FOR them (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 11:58:57 AM EST
    And approved, absolutely.  Everyone she delt with was a cult member.  We had to take the vans to this guy who didn't know his a$$ from his elbow because he was a cult member.  So they all stopped running about once a week.

    I despise them.  That's the truth.

    Parent

    I can imagine (none / 0) (#73)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 01:25:12 PM EST
    Having one in your office where you are the boss is bad enough. I can only imagine how horrible they are to work for.

    And that is the upside to those approved businesses. I knew what some of them were and never went there.

    Parent

    Ha (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:58:55 PM EST
    That was a helluva typeo.

    Supposed to be DENIM skirts.  But I will go with spell correct on this one.

    Parent

    Honestly (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 04:01:46 PM EST
    I had no idea that was spell correct. I thought that is what you meant and yes, it's aptly appropriate isn't it?

    Parent
    So let me get this straight (none / 0) (#74)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 01:41:58 PM EST
    The IFB's think that the King James Version of the Bible is
    the only true Word of God; all other translations of the Bible are the work of the devil. Meant to be taken literally, the KJV is inspired, inerrant, infallible, and the supreme and final authority in all things.

    Are they at all aware that James VI and I and his translators were Church of England?  
    I mean, if the IFB's are convinced that they and only they have the "truth," and that other Protestants may or may not be okay, but that Catholics are totally going to he!!........
    Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is, Anglicans are in many ways a whole lot closer to Catholicism (and, for that matter, to Eastern Orthodoxy, which means that I, too, get to go to he!! as well, I suppose) than they are to fundamentalist Baptists.
    How do they reconcile this?


    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:06:40 PM EST
    first of all you have to realize that Baptists generally and IFB's specifically have no knowledge of church history because if they did they would not be able to consider the Catholic Church a "cult" since that would be saying that they sprung from a "cult"

    And since they're a cult they don't have to make sense to anyone and you're not allowed to question. Just think of a Baptist version of the moonies.

    Parent

    Well, speaking of (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:36:07 PM EST
    Church history.......I'm Eastern Orthodox, and I suppose in a lot of ways, we might consider the Roman Catholics a "cult."
    Okay, okay, not a "cult," but definitely schismatics.   ;-)

    And that involves a whole heck of a lot of church history that is way too complicated to get into here.


    Parent

    Growing up in the midwest as a (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:43:49 PM EST
    Protestant, yes indeed, no question the Lutherans viewed the Catholic church as a "cult."  Incense?  Latin?  

    Interesfting article in the NYT about the religious schisms in the Ukraine between the various liturgical traditions.

    Parent

    I once scared the JWs off my front porch by (5.00 / 4) (#95)
    by Farmboy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:45:07 PM EST
    telling them I was a member of the Society of Friends.

    "Friends?" one of them asked, looking confused.

    "Yeah, you know - Quakers," I replied.

    They were gone so fast they forgot to give me a Watchtower.

    Parent

    We've always just told them we are Jewish. (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 04:12:34 PM EST
    They can't run away fast enough.

    Parent
    I just open the door (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:49:46 PM EST
    Wearing only a motorcycle helmet and rubber gloves.

    Parent
    Ha! Funniest comment today. (none / 0) (#113)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:01:26 PM EST
    Oh, don't even get me started (none / 0) (#85)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:04:18 PM EST
    on the various Ukrainian Orthodox and Catholic Churches.
    Almost too numerous to count.     ;-)

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:10:28 PM EST
    I'm Episcopalian and growing up we sure thought a lot less of Catholics than we do today. These days the mainline denominations are more aligned with the  Catholics in a lot of ways and the evangelicals have kind of pushed us all together.

    Certainly evangelicals have had a rapid decline as far as political influence. Evangelicals have done a lot of damage to Christianity and I think acutally some of them probably fall into the cult designation.

    Parent

    Yes, I think that (none / 0) (#102)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 04:20:49 PM EST
    the liturgical churches in particular have drawn way more together than they used to be, and at least some of that has to do with the fundamentalist and evangelical Protestants.
    As far as I am concerned, the Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Episcopalians/Anglicans, and some of the Lutheran churches (I am not talking about the Missouri Synod Lutherans, BTW) ought to get together and find some common ground.
    At the very least, they ought to be talking about co-communion.
    That would be a start.

    Parent
    I'm with (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 04:51:02 PM EST
    you on the Missouri Synod. I went to one of their churches one time not realizing there were different Lutherans. I have Lutherans in my family but they are all ELCA. I was shocked at how cold the service was and how stiff the pastor was and his sermon was 100 percent hardline. I meantioned this to my family  who are ELCA and they were like oh, yeah. They said Wisconsin Synod is just as bad though I have never been to one of those.

    Parent
    My father and uncles were all raised as ... (none / 0) (#108)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:33:23 PM EST
    ... Missouri Synod Lutherans while growing up in northeastern Illinois. As adults, each and every one of them came to reject that sect's doctrinaire mindset, and instead sought out something that they saw as less unyielding and hard line.

    Both my father and one of his brothers eventually converted to Roman Catholicism after marrying into Catholic families, while the others would join the ELCA.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    The Lutheran Church of America (none / 0) (#104)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:04:54 PM EST
    and the Episcopal Church reached an agreement years ago re communion.

    Parent
    Interestingly enough, (none / 0) (#107)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:24:32 PM EST
    I have spoken to some Roman Catholic priests I know, and they are willing to give Orthodox Christians communion (I don't know if this "comes from above" in the Catholic Church, or if this is just them).
    But the Orthodox are not willing to give communion to Catholics, and we are not supposed to take communion in any other than an Eastern Orthodox Church.  
    This type of thing is just stupid.  Good for the Lutherans and the Episcopalians in finding this common ground.  
    But then, I am also not a "typical" Eastern Orthodox.  I would, for instance, ordain women to the priesthood.
    But that's just me.   I certainly don't speak for the Orthodox Church.   And I'm sure that the hierarchy is glad that I don't.
    ;-)

    Parent
    I belong to an Episcopalian church (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:10:47 PM EST
    An announcement is made prior to communion that any baptized Christian is welcome to participate in communion and those who chose not to participate or are not eligible to receive communion are welcome to come up to the alter to receive a blessing.

    Parent
    Very warm (none / 0) (#148)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:05:50 PM EST
    Several years ago--at a funeral for a former work colleague & friend--a similar announcement was made. A number of people came forward for the blessing at the Episcopal Cathedral in Denver. Very comforting.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#109)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:42:24 PM EST
    you have some interesting traditions in the Eastern Orthdox IIRC. Isn't it that your priests can be married but they have to be married before they are ordained? I have some neighbors who are Greek Orthodox and tend to be kind of far right.

    Parent
    Exactly right (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:59:01 PM EST
    They have to be married before they are ordained not just to the priesthood, but to the diaconate (becoming a deacon).
    And if a priest's or deacon's wife dies, they may not remarry, unless they leave the priesthood or the diaconate.
    Although our priests can be married, our bishops cannot be married.  They could be widowers, but most of them come from the monastics.
    Yes, many, way too many in my opinion, Greek and other Orthodox are very, very conservative.  I must hasten to add, not me and not my brothers and a few of my cousins.
    But we are pretty much outliers in the Orthodox Church.  ;-)

    Parent
    My eyeballs nearly fell out of my head (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:39:48 PM EST
    when I read this, via Charlie Pierce:

    Jody Hice, a Baptist minister and talk-radio host, is running for Congress in Georgia's 10th Congressional District as a stern defender of the First Amendment and religious freedom. But that freedom does not apply to those of the Muslim faith. "Although Islam has a religious component, it is much more than a simple religious ideology," Hice wrote in his 2012 book. "It is a complete geo-political structure and, as such, does not deserve First Amendment protection." Hice believes that the Muslim Brotherhood is infiltrating the United States, with the intent to impose Sharia law on all of us. He also believes that it's fine for women to seek political office, at least if certain conditions are met. "If the woman's within the authority of her husband, I don't see a problem," he told the Athens Banner-Herald in 2004.

    I don't even know how it's possible to believe this stuff, but he's not the only one:

    Loudermilk is an eager member of the Glenn Beck wing of the GOP. He is also an apostle of faux historian David Barton, who preaches that the U.S. Constitution is a document intended to create a conservative Christian government. Like Hice, they reject the notion of a separation between Christianity and state, and argue that the First Amendment was intended only to keep government from favoring one particular Christian denomination.

    I'm not even sure being insane would help (although that may have some bearing on how or why these people can believe these things).

    Parent

    Yes, this (none / 0) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:05:14 PM EST
    is typical tea party down here. Not to rehash an old argument but this is the point that Tracy, Howdy and I were making a while back that there is no middle ground with these tea partiers.

    And you want to know what is really sad? I am in the congressional district that Loudermilk is running in and he's in a runoff with Bob Barr. So those are the choices we have. I voted in the GOP primary so I can vote in the runoff but not sure i'm even going to bother with those choices.

    Parent

    It's primary day here in MD. (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:14:09 PM EST
    We have a closed primary, so as a Democrat, I can only vote for Democratic candidates.

    Word on the street is that, even with early voting, interest in the election is really low.  Not that you could tell by the vast quantities of campaign materials that are delivered to us each day - my husband just tosses them directly into the recycling bin.  

    Because one of us is a Democrat and one is a Republican, we get it all - and the robo-calls to boot.

    I'm voting for Heather Mizeur for governor; she won't win, but I don't care.  She's such a breath of fresh air, especially compared to the two machine politicians running against her, Anthony Brown and Doug Gansler.

    I don't know what I'd do if I had the kinds of choices you do - I'd either have to move, or start pretending I didn't care about politics.  Probably be easier to move.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:22:55 PM EST
    since there are people here who do not agree with this stuff you just have to find them but it is hard and there are times I have thought about moving. When I first moved here it was not that bad but honestly it seems like my district has become a magnet for wackos.

    Here we don't have registration by party and we have open primaries so we get everything.

    Parent

    Unless you want to move (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:43:53 PM EST
    To the heart of a major city it's going to be hard to escape them

    My view is this is my country.  And my county.  I have as much right to be here as they do and the fact that they don't want me or my kind here's is a just little bonus that gives me an added reason to get up every day,  Bite the heads off chickens at church if you want to just leave me the f@ck alone.  

    And I have to tell you I am far from the only one who feels this way.   There are MANY very conservative devout fundamentalist Christians around here that hate them just as much and maybe even more than me.  

    Story -Helen who worked with me at the center is as conservative as it gets.  The skirt pusher (her term) made her stop wearing jewelry to work (it's against their religion) so come time for the Christmas party Helen shows up looking like freakin Salome.  I think she was probably wearing every piece of jewelry she owned or could borrow.  She literally had a ring on every finger AND her thumbs.  We arrived at the same time and I opened the door for and as she tinkeled past she whispered "I ain't workin now, I dare that b!tch to say one word"

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:59:58 PM EST
    this is precisely why Lutherans, Episcopalians and Presbyterians are starting to work together to put these people back on the margins where they belong. Methodists are probably going to be moving that way soon. We are sick of these people and their creepy stuff. Their opression of women and a whole host of other things. They live in a very dark past and all I have to say is if Christianity can't survive in today's world like they seem to believe then it is doomed as a religion. These people have always been around but back in the 70's when i was growing up they were definitely on the margins. The best analogy I have seen is what if they were Amish? If they were Amish, they would be mandating that we all live on farms and none of us have electricity in our house. They are the biggest freaking control maniacs I have ever seen in my life.

    Parent
    20 years ago (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:22:04 PM EST
    Imagine a world where Bob Barr is the sensible alternative?
    Makes your head ache doesn't it?

    Which he totally is BTW at this point.

    Parent

    I know (none / 0) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:24:51 PM EST
    I have thought the same thing. I'm thinking about holding my nose and voting for him simply to keep Loudermilk out of the house but then again, another freak in the house is going to put more of a hurting on the GOP.

    Parent
    My eyeballs have (none / 0) (#87)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:09:08 PM EST
    Pretty much fallen out of my head.  I had to blindly scrabble for them and pop them back in.
    How can anyone with more than two neurons to rub together actually believe this load of horse manure???

    Parent
    And as farmboy pointed out above (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:28:22 PM EST
    It's the smile.  The glazed self satisfied sanctimony that is the kicker.  I am not surprised by the Hitler billboard.  These people are Nazis cultists waiting fir a Hitler.  Yeah yeah - lost the argument - never make the comparison - whatever.

    That's what they are.  If you don't believe it you have never met one.

    Parent

    But, think of the children. (none / 0) (#84)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:02:40 PM EST
    Life Ministries, an organization that brings moral values to kids, put up a billboard near an Auburn, Alabama mall (close to a MacDonald's) that carried the following: "He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future"---Adolph Hitler.   Life Ministries seems to appreciate Adolph's family values, although there was no mention of Eva Braun.   Life Ministries took the billboard down claiming it might cause "confusion."

    Parent
    But it's okay for... (none / 0) (#127)
    by unitron on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:15:23 PM EST
    ...the Jesuits or whoever to say "give us a child until he's five..."?

    Just 'cause Hitler pointed it out does not automatically make it incorrect.

    Parent

    Equating the Jesuits (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:59:03 PM EST
    and Hitler?   Well, both do give childless advise on parenting, so there's that.  How about a sing-a-long to celebrate our agreement?

    Parent
    I was sure (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:38:39 PM EST
    Perhaps, then, we should note ... (none / 0) (#154)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:44:20 PM EST
    unitron: "Just 'cause Hitler pointed it out does not automatically make it incorrect."

    ... your own apparent agreement with Der Führer on this matter. Do you really want to go there -- I mean, really?

    Aloha.

    Parent

    If Hiller said... (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by unitron on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 03:12:47 AM EST
    ...the sun rises in the east, I would not argue that it rises in the west just because it was Hitler who said it.

    If he said that 2 plus 2 equals 4, I would not accept 4 one dollar bills in full payment for something I was selling for $5, nor expect to be able to make a $4 purchase with only 3 one dollar bills.

     "He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future"

    If the above is incorrect, tell me how it is incorrect without referencing the original source.

    Either it is correct, or it is not, regardless of who said it, and noting it to be correct does not put me in agreement with him on all of the other issues on which he was not correct.

    Parent

    And Hiller, of course... (none / 0) (#173)
    by unitron on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 03:59:50 AM EST
    ...is the guy in the demon skirt.

    Parent
    Are you completely obtuse and tone deaf? You know, when you find yourself in a hole, Rule No. 1 is to stop digging. But no, you just had to keep going, even though you're totally and willfully missing the point here. And that can be summed up in a single rhetorical question:

    WHY would you or anyone else in their right mind even reference Adolf Hitler and the Nazis in a U.S. political discussion IN THE FIRST PLACE?

    Hitler and Nazi Germany were a singular and unique horror show in modern world history, and they were directly responsible for the deaths of about 54 million people in Europe, North Africa and the Atlantic Ocean during the Second World War (Sept, 1, 1939 - May 7, 1945). Among those were about 10 to 13 million people whom the Nazis deemed to be racially inferior and were killed for it.

    Public references and analogies to the Nazis in any modern American socio-political context are wholly inappropriate, regardless of one's intent and meaning, for the simple reason that nobody in American public life is so awful that they deserve to be compared to the amoral perpetrators of mass human genocide.

    It's not just intellectually lazy. It's also hyperbolic. It's indecent and offensive. When you invoke the Nazis during the course of a domestic political debate, it serves only to trivialize what the Nazis actually did.

    And THAT constitutes an enormous and genuine personal affront to those Americans whose relatives were among the Nazis' victims, or who lost loved ones in the fight against them. That's not just my family, but countless others as well -- including a few here, I'm sure.

    And I find it both sad and pathetic that someone even needs to explain such things to you.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Donald...long and unnecessary (none / 0) (#177)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 07:13:55 AM EST
    as the basis of Unitron's statement is correct:

    Either it is correct, or it is not, regardless of who said it, and noting it to be correct does not put me in agreement with him on all of the other issues on which he was not correct.

    Just because some onetime world leaders are idiots doesn't mean they weren't also correct in some things they said. While I often agree with you, I find this attack, to use your words,  sad and pathetic.

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 09:11:37 AM EST
    that Donald's comment was long, but our agreement ends there.   Unitron initially responded to my comment regarding the Children Ministries billboard near a mall in Auburn quoting a saying by Adolph Hitler.  

    The offensiveness of the billboard was not the accuracy of the words, but who was being quoted as saying them.   The quality of advice and  its potential for positive guidance and modeling relates to context and stature.  

     Certainly, der Fuhrer knew a thing or two about Zyklon B, but public utilities are unlikely to cite him in their advertisements.  Or, there is likely to be little quarrel with the accuracy of the words: "Eat it, it  is good for you." if Julia Childs is quoted.   However, if it is a quotation from  Hannibal Lecter, it may take on a less wholesome context. Both Ronald MacDonald and John Wayne Gacy might be quoted with the same accurate and correct words. Only one of these two, would merit a billboard of sage advice.

    To the Childrens Ministries credit, they, at least, sensed the real issue and recognized   the need to take the billboard down.

    Parent

    Except (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 09:27:05 AM EST
    I expect taking it down had less to do with sensing the real issue and more to do with sensing a massive backlash.

    The idea that anyone for any reason would put up a freakin billboard quoting Hitler, with his name on it, sort boggles the mind.  The fact that they would do it at all say wayyyyyy more about them than anything the stupid sign says.  

    I do agree that if you put up a quote by and attribute it to Hitler very few are even going to remember the quote.

    Parent

    Today in GOP Outreach: (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:37:59 PM EST
    Arizona State Schools Superintendent John Huppenthal, trolling anonymously on progressive blogs as Falcon9:

    "We all need to stomp out balkanization. No spanish radio stations, no spanish billboards, no spanish tv stations, no spanish newspapers. This is America, speak English. [...] "I don't mind them selling Mexican food as long as the menus are mostly in English. And, I'm not being humorous or racist. A lot is at stake here."

    You can't spell "CRAZY" without the AZ.

    "I don't mind them selling... (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by unitron on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 04:02:06 AM EST
    ...Mexican food..."

    Well, that's sure mighty white of him.

    : - )

    Parent

    "I don't mind them selling Mexican food" (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:46:35 PM EST
    Wonder if he is OK with Americans selling Mexican food?  You know, like Taco Bell?

    Wow.  Trying to imagine the world these people would make if they were allowed to makes my head hurt.

    Parent

    Taco Bell is sacrilege. (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:01:54 PM EST
    It's no more Mexican, than is Lainie Kazan.

    You just knew something like that was coming, didn't you?

    ;-D

    Parent

    Watching the PBS documentary about Freedom Summer (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:08:46 PM EST
    My dog is barking back at Bull Connor's dogs.

    No matter how many times I read or see (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:30:29 PM EST
    this history, it still shocks the mind to see that in my lifetime a governor of a state was blocking black students from entering a university.  Not to mention turning fire hoses on children.  So much pointless hatred and energy expended. People are just sick.

    Parent
    Don't forget Little Rock (none / 0) (#133)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:57:38 PM EST
    Governor Orval Faubus orders the Arkansas National Guard to prohibit African American students from entering Central High School and announces his plans in a televised speech.
    September 3, 1957


    Parent
    I was 6 (none / 0) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:05:33 PM EST
    But I remember that fall very clearly.  The revolution was televised.

    Parent
    And don't forget it (none / 0) (#165)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:56:54 PM EST
    was Repub Pres Eisenhower who sent the troops in.

    Parent
    That changed during Richard Nixon's first presidential term, when he invited disaffected (and unreconstructed) Southern Democrats, aka "Dixiecrats," into the GOP as a conscious and concerted part of his campaign's "Southern Strategy."

    Parent
    Next he'll remind you that (none / 0) (#188)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 11:20:56 AM EST
    Lincoln was a Republican (that is, if these unreconstructed types didn't still hate Lincoln.)

    Parent
    That was an excellent show... (5.00 / 3) (#166)
    by desertswine on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 11:12:21 PM EST
    We tend to forget, you know, that people had to die just to try to vote.  We have a lot to lose if we permit the righties to push time and progress backwards to the nineteenth century.

    Parent
    Rox can never figure out that the dogs (none / 0) (#132)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:54:05 PM EST
    are on the TV. {sigh} She's ruined many a good program.

    Parent
    Only my Golden does this (none / 0) (#135)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:59:19 PM EST
    It's very funny when the two Huskies sort of roll their eyes at each other.

    Parent
    Mine seems to know when it is real dogs (none / 0) (#163)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:46:04 PM EST
    and not 'actor' dogs. She only barks at the real thing.

    Parent
    Thank you for putting up (none / 0) (#186)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 10:57:34 AM EST
    That it is on.  Set to record tonight.

    Parent
    Pretty sure (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 23, 2014 at 10:47:07 PM EST
    this must be illegal

    Better than a monkey on a motorcycle

    The Non-Profit New York Road Runners (none / 0) (#2)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 23, 2014 at 10:48:10 PM EST
    have finally finalized their losses from the cancellation of the 2012 New York City Marathon due to Sandy. After a $15 million payment from Lloyd's, the net loss to the NYRR due to the cancellation of the race comes in at $3.9 million.

    Loss to them... (none / 0) (#5)
    by unitron on Mon Jun 23, 2014 at 11:22:10 PM EST
    ...or their creditors?

    Parent
    The NYRR ate the $3.9 million (none / 0) (#10)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:10:52 AM EST
    All creditors have been paid, and entry fees refunded to those that didn't defer their entry to another year.

    Parent
    They had that kind of money lyin around? (none / 0) (#11)
    by unitron on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:15:10 AM EST
    I guess there's more money in being a non-profit than I would have thought.

    Parent
    Ah, those guys are small change (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:04:30 AM EST
    Greenpeace has suffered a 3.8 million-euro ($5.2 million) loss on an ill-timed bet in the currency market by a well-intentioned -- if reckless -- employee in its finance department.

    snip

    By the way, keep Greenpeace's $400 million budget in mind next time you hear the left complain about the Koch brothers/fossil fuel-funded critics of environmentalism.  The combined total budgets for all purposes of AEI, the Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute, and the Hoover Institution is barely half of Greenpeace's annual budget.

    Link

    Parent

    Ah (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 11:18:43 AM EST
    If the Reich-wing is now equating virtue with poverty budgets, then why do they continue to hate the poor so much?

    The thing about Greenpeace is, it's an organization that's actually needed -- unlike Heritage, Cato et al with their unsustainable scorched earth, loot-and-pillage philosophies.

    I'm guessing it's that word "peace" that bothers you, eh Jim?  

    Parent

    Since there was an earlier thread on (none / 0) (#3)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 23, 2014 at 10:55:05 PM EST
    jailed journalists in Egypt, here are the top 5 countries for imprisoned journalists as of the end of 2013... All currently dwarfing Egypt:

    1 Turkey - 40
    2 Iran - 35
    3 China - 32
    4 Eritrea - 22
    5 Vietnam - 18


    I'm sure that Egypr will be... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by unitron on Mon Jun 23, 2014 at 11:21:28 PM EST
    ...back near the top in no time, once the new government gets the hang of being repressive.

    Parent
    Somewhere, (none / 0) (#9)
    by lentinel on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 04:22:52 AM EST
    we should get honorable mention for the exiling of Snowden.

    Parent
    Snowden wasn't exiled (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:26:10 AM EST
    He left of his own volition, and to the best of my knowledge can return anytime he chooses. That's assuming Russia permits him to leave which may or may not be an option.

    Parent
    Literally, (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by lentinel on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:13:45 AM EST
    true.

    He was only exiled in the sense that he knew that if he remained here he would run the risk of being tried for treason. In any case, a long stretch in the pokey was all he could look forward to in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    His wish was to go to South America - as I guess you know.

    The US blocked him from doing so.

    So he was stranded in Russia, where he remains.

    Saying that he can "return any time he chooses" - is absolutely clueless in the mold of Kerry's sexist suggestion that he "man up". He would be putting his neck in a noose for absolutely nothing. He has made his case. We know a lot that we didn't know before - and we have discovered that there is absolutely nothing we can do to influence our government to behave differently. We have nothing to say.

    The only possible reason for a person like Snowden to return would be if there were a really honest grass roots uprising against the abuses of the government, and he felt that his presence would aid the cause.

    As it is, the American people are completely defeated.
    We have, as I said, no input.
    No way to express an opinion through the ballot box.
    No one to vote for who will promise to propose and fight for legislation that will end the abuses of the NSA.

    So we fester, and Snowden has, at least for a while, a home abroad.

    Parent

    Nah... (none / 0) (#12)
    by unitron on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:23:41 AM EST
    ...he was only a source.

    If you want in on this game, you gotta start locking up actual reporters.

    And none of that Judith Whatzrname aspen turning stuff, either, but actual prior restraint, hoosegow style, while we wear our "due process is for sissies" T-shirts.

    Parent

    True, (none / 0) (#16)
    by lentinel on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:25:07 AM EST
    they're not storming news bureaus... as yet.

    But it is certainly nice to have a chill in the air and the threat of being called a traitor if you write or publish a piece of information that the gummint don't particularly care for.

    We encourage self-censorship. A kind of preemptive strike against investigative journalism. Effective, and constitutional. Everybody's happy.

    And it is extra nice that reporters who actually publish something of interest to the public can be pilloried if they don't reveal their sources. Gotta love it.

    As for Snowden, yeah. He was only a source. And if he "mans up" and puts his feetsies back on US soil, it's hasta la vista baby.

    Parent

    Yes we do (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:06:51 AM EST
    We encourage self-censorship.

    Look at the Washington Redskin kerfunkle as only the latest example.

    And even your private words can be broadcast without  your permission.. as the owner of an LA NBA team.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Is society tolerating (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:23:37 AM EST
    Racism and racial pejoratives the same as truth telling?  Hmmmmmmmm?

    Parent
    Truth has become a very subjective thing (4.50 / 2) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:25:10 AM EST
    Thanks for the troll rating (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:08:43 AM EST
    And try looking up sarcasm

    Parent
    As is, apparently, some people's notion ... (none / 0) (#46)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:09:41 AM EST
    ... regarding what constitutes a racist pejorative.

    Parent
    Dear children (1.00 / 1) (#161)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:43:06 PM EST
    The purpose of having free speech is to insure that we hear speech that we agree with and that we disagree with.

    I find it sad to come to the undoubted conclusion that what you want is for everyone to shut up who you disagree with.

    Thank goodness some of us are resisting.

    Parent

    And how are you "resisting"? (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 12:52:38 AM EST
    You're doing so by debating your own straw men, which is essentially talking to yourself. And now, you're congratulating yourself. All you need to do now is go to your bathroom mirror, and give yourself a high five.

    Parent
    And what is your point? (none / 0) (#15)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:55:43 AM EST
    Seems like you've only told part of some story, and it's not clear what story you're trying to tell.

    I'd hate to think you're telling the story of "hey, Egypt's not so bad, look at all these other countries where it's worse!"

    But it's kind of looking that way.


    Parent

    Not telling any story (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:19:04 AM EST
    Just laying out facts. You can decipher as you please.

    Egypt was #9

    Turkey
    Iran
    China
    Eritrea  
    Vietnam
    Syria
    Azerbaijan
    Ethiopia
    Egypt
    Uzbekistan

    Turkey, Iran, and China accounted for more than half of all journalists imprisoned around the world in 2013. There was nearly a 10% drop in jailed journalists worldwide in 2013 (212) compared to 2012 (232).

    Parent

    "Decipher as I please?" Gee, thanks. (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:09:37 AM EST
    What I posted in the other thread juxtaposed the actions of a repressive government that was jailing journalists against a stated desire by the US, via John Kerry, to strengthen the connections between the US and Egyptian governments and follow through on the aid commitments we had made, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.

    You responded to that by providing a list of other countries/governments that have put more journalists in prison than the Egyptians.  Absent any information about how much, if any, US aid those countries are receiving, you might as well have posted the word "Potato," which would be just as much a non sequitur as your list.

    So, maybe I have to ask a question, or several questions: should the US be supporting governments that put journalists in prison?  Are there other efforts these countries are making in terms of the quality of life of their citizens and the expansion of their rights and freedoms that permit us to pretend that impinging on the press freedom that is crucial to the development of democracy isn't all that important?

    I find it troubling that our government doesn't seem to have a problem giving money to governments that are engaging in these kinds of repressive actions, but perhaps it's not a problem for you.  

    Parent

    I never responded to you at all (3.50 / 2) (#30)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:21:47 AM EST
    from the other thread. Perhaps you take things personally when you shouldn't.

    Parent
    So, while you acknowledged you were (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:45:53 AM EST
    posting your "information" further to a comment in a prior thread about jailed Egyptian journalists, you're ignoring the fact that I was the one who posted that comment.

    Making your list just, what? Oh, a list.

    Okay.  I have one, too:

    Spring mix
    Garlic
    Squash
    Sweet onions
    Butterhead lettuce
    Carrots
    Bok choi

    I'll leave it to you to decipher its meaning.


    Parent

    Don't care (5.00 / 6) (#43)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:04:29 AM EST
    So the jailing of journalists is often ignored (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:40:51 AM EST
    Prizes to be awarded. (none / 0) (#17)
    by lentinel on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:31:10 AM EST
    Let's see.

    If Egypt is only, say, number 6 on the list, and we're sending them a very nice taste, "$1.3 billion in annual aid", I look forward to sending the folks in the number 1 spot, the Turkeyans, at least 6 or 7 billion to start.

    They've earned it.

    Parent

    Eritria? (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:23:58 AM EST
    Isn't that about half the population?

    Parent
    Not quite (none / 0) (#37)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:37:25 AM EST
    but I did have to find it on a map. The population is quite a bit smaller than New York City.

    Parent
    Query: for some unfathomable reason, (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:15:38 AM EST
    on my iPad, but not on my phone, I must constantly login. Wha happened?

    Same here (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:26:50 AM EST
    For some reason it makes me login here almost every time I goto another site.

    Shrug
    At least it remembers the login.

    Parent

    This is a new feature. I'll (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:41:57 AM EST
    Email J.

    Parent
    J will report webmaster's (none / 0) (#56)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 11:41:17 AM EST
    findings.

    Parent
    Last May was the hottest.. (none / 0) (#8)
    by desertswine on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:48:53 AM EST
    ever recorded. I thought I was feeling a bit peckish.

    Too bad none of that (none / 0) (#164)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:47:04 PM EST
    heat was down here...

    My garden is about a month late because of unseasonably wet cold weather.

    We should all take a breath and understand that FOOD CROPS LIKE WARM WEATHER.

    Of course I am sure you believe the old hippy saying.... "Food is."

    Parent

    Warm weather is great! (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 01:00:56 AM EST
    Now if we just had some water . . .

    Parent
    Of course they do (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Yman on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 06:30:28 AM EST
    We should all take a breath and understand that FOOD CROPS LIKE WARM WEATHER.

    What they don't like is global warming.

    Parent

    Hey, Donald... (none / 0) (#13)
    by unitron on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:24:46 AM EST
    ...what's up with Rangel?

    I really wouldn't know. (none / 0) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:20:11 AM EST
    I did my time in the Beltway, and live 5,000 miles away from there for a reason. But whatever it is that's up with Charlie Rangel, I'll offer better than even odds that it's probably one more indication that he should either retire or be retired. The guy has to be in his mid-80s by now. It's time to go home.

    Parent
    When I posted that... (none / 0) (#172)
    by unitron on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 03:18:47 AM EST
    ...CNN had just had something about him on a crawl or overlay, but I didn't want to actually turn up the volume for fear of having to hear anyone who works there.

    Parent
    Mini reviews: (none / 0) (#14)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:52:04 AM EST
    Audiobook- John Waters' 'Carsick': his story of hitch hiking from Baltimore to San Francisco. Well I am about 2/3 through and  'story' is still the operative word. The first third is a novella about his fantasies of the best possible rides he could get in his hitch hiking adventure. At least I hope it is thirds. The second section is a novella about the worst possible rides. I am almost through that, I I think the last part will be his actual trip. There will  be about on hour of that on the audio book.  His stories can be amusing, but as you can imagine, gross-out humor is his stock in trade. If, like me, you gag even hearing the words 'pus dripping from my infected tattoo', don't even bother. Also, he makes frequent reference s to obscure  niche films that I have never heard of.....I am probably  not his target audience, all in all.   I am continuing to listen just to see if he actually did take the hitch hiking trip.

    Penny Dreadful: wow, that was one helluva exorcism!  

    Penny Dreadful is really neat so far (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:39:55 AM EST
    Not at all what I expected.  I like John Waters, but must take him in small doses.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:50:40 AM EST
    Wasn't sure if we should talk about it since I wasn't sure if you had caught up.  So beautifully shot isn't it?  With wonderful artsy touches like when Frankenstein shoots up morphine and you see the shadows race across the wall with the passing of the day.

    I love the show.  I think Leftovers is looking really interesting.  Also The Knick.  And of course The Strain thought I will probably be it's only fan here.

    Parent

    Love it too, more than I expected. (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:10:55 PM EST
    It is so beautifully filmed, as you say. That goes a long way with me, when even thousands of icky spiders are interesting to look at. Excited for the finale!

    Parent
    God I loved the spiders (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:12:12 PM EST
    Brilliant.  

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:18:44 AM EST
    Waters is sort of an acquired taste.  Or a genetic one.  Kudos fot soldiering on.

    Parent
    Waters' Christmas CD is like no other. (2.00 / 1) (#51)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:30:27 AM EST
    I really enjoy his non fiction more than his (none / 0) (#66)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:17:38 PM EST
    fiction. He is so funny and insightful n his memoirs and  personal appearances.  I can't go on all of his imaginative joyrides however- too easily grossed out my bodily fluids!

    He is really funny when he works through his conflicts between his fastidiousness and his most base desires, like having sex in a demolition derby car. During the derby.

    Parent

    Derby was fiction, btw. One of the funnier stories (none / 0) (#67)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:20:10 PM EST
    Well my fridge (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:20:21 PM EST
    Is covered with Devine/John Waters refrigerator magnets so....

    Parent
    Cap'n, that revelation ... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:09:23 PM EST
    ... calls for some Divine!

    Things are getting way too serious again.

    Parent

    I once spent a whole evening (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:56:23 PM EST
    Dancing with Devine at the Saint.  I was there alone standing on the dance floor and he slithered up, not in drag, and we spent, like the next 8 hours or so doing a vast assortment of drugs and dancing our brains out.  Never said a word beyond would you prefer this or that.  At about 10 am he yawned we air kissed and parted ways.  After that he would always say hello in the street or whatever.  We never really had a conversation but I felt like we shared something deeper.

    This is about 1983-4

    Parent

    Divine was a genuine talent. (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 04:01:44 PM EST
    And it takes some real cojones to intentionally become your own best parody, the way Glenn Milstead did with Divine. I always thought it a real shame that he died suddenly of that heart attack, on the cusp of having attained very real stardom with mainstream crossover appeal.

    Personally, I think Divine's best performance as an actor came not when he inhabited his outrageous drag persona, but in a straight supporting role in Alan Rudolph's underappreciated but compelling 1986 neo-noir film "Trouble in Mind."

    Divine played Hilly Blue, a high-living but lowbrow Seattle mobster and racketeer, as somewhat fey but certainly not overtly so, which he further underscored with a quiet and very real menace in this scene with Coop (Keith Carradine) and Solo (Joe Morton), letting both these small-time hoods know in no uncertain terms who the big fish really is in this particular pond:

    "Miracles happen when you surrender. The trick is, surrendering on your own terms. ... I'll pay you five hundred for these trifles right now. But then, this 'Big Deal,' we'll start clean. No prejudice. I'll be fair, and so will you. Otherwise, I'll have your lungs filled with water."

    Per the late Roger Ebert in his review of "Trouble in Mind," which he gave his highest rating:

    "The best way to describe Hilly Blue is to say that if Sydney Greenstreet could have reproduced by parthenogenesis after radioactive damage to his chromosomes, Hilly would have been the issue."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Totally agree (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 04:13:38 PM EST

    With all of it.
    The candle light thing in the village after his surprise death was one of the more moving things I have ever participated in.
    He was almost literally canonized.
    It some how seemed more tragic in that decade of death because it was such a shock.  We were used to death with a long runway.  With him it seemed like we were cheated.  And as you say he was just crossing over.  It seemed so unfair.

    Parent
    Well, it WAS unfair. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:23:47 PM EST
    IMHO, I think that characters such as Divine and John Waters -- who march to the beat of their own drummers, and have no problem telling the rest of us to phuque off if we can't get a clue -- are really what makes the world a much more interesting place to inhabit, than it otherwise would be.

    And in that regard, I believe that we were indeed somehow cheated with Divine's passing, because he was high camp personified. Let's face it, he cut a totally ridiculous figure as a 300-lb. transvestite, and he knew it and played that up for hilarious effect.

    Yet he was also a great actor, because in films like "Polyester" and "Hairspray," he cajoled the audience to suspend their preconceived notions about drag personae and identify both Francine and Edna as real women, and not simply as a man in drag who's playing a woman.

    And as straight people such as myself laughed at Divine's onscreen antics, many of us came to realize that we were also laughing at our own equally ridiculous prejudices regarding gender roles and sexual orientation in our society.

    As marvelous as Kathleen Turner was in John Waters' 1994 classic black comedy, "Serial Mom," I can't help but wonder what Divine could have done with the role of Beverley Sutfin, the upscale Baltimore housewife whose self-absorbed penchant for social perfection becomes a murderous obsession. I've always thought that Waters had to have been infused with Divine's spirit when he wrote that particular script.

    Aloha.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I always thought (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:48:04 PM EST
    He should have played Annie Wilkes in Misery.  Reading the book that's what I visualized.

    Parent
    Yes, Kathleen Turner was (none / 0) (#115)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:04:01 PM EST
    great in Serial Mom.   Her social perfection did cause her obsessive displeasure throughout the trial with Juror No. 8 for wearing white shoes after Labor Day--with an injudicious resolution.

    Parent
    Patty Hearst. (none / 0) (#120)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:10:56 PM EST
    Why not (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:16:07 PM EST
    Divine appeared in Waters's next short film, The Diane Linkletter Story (1969), which was initially designed to be a test for a new sound camera. A black comedy that carried on in Waters's tradition of making "bad taste" films to shock conventional American society, The Diane Linkletter Story was based upon the true story of Diane Linkletter, the daughter of media personality Art Linkletter, who had committed suicide earlier that year. Her death had led to a flurry of media interest and speculation, with various sources erroneously claiming that she had done so under the influence of the psychedelic LSD. Waters's dramatized version starred Divine in the leading role as the teenager who rebels against her conservative parents after they try to break up her relationship with hippie boyfriend Jim, before consuming a large quantity of LSD and committing suicide. Although screened at the first Baltimore Film Festival, the film was not publicly released at the time, largely for legal reasons.[31][37]

    Parent
    Wasn't ol' Art himself... (none / 0) (#130)
    by unitron on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:26:35 PM EST
    ...one of those sources blaming LSD?

    Parent
    I believe he was (none / 0) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:03:54 PM EST
    Oh, weird trivia (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:15:20 PM EST
    My fathers middle name was Devine.

    Seriously.  I have no idea where it came from and it never seemed odd to me until Devine came along.

    Parent

    Except Glenn Milstead spelled (none / 0) (#141)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:28:10 PM EST
    his name "Divine," not "Devine."

    For what it's worth, Divine and I graduated from the same high school, he in 1963 and me in 1971.

    Parent

    That's great (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:31:15 PM EST
    I'm trying to imagine him in my high school.  It's not working.

    Parent
    At least we know where (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:59:32 PM EST
    My spelling comes from.  It actually funny that I never noticed the spelling difference until today.  I'm a little disappointed actually.  I think I wanted them to be the same.

    Parent
    I'm clearly out of my league with you two (none / 0) (#117)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:06:57 PM EST
    I'm one of the uptight but well meaning characters. I appreciate Waters and Divine for opening up my eyes and making me laugh at myself, and them too, and not take it all so seriously. It is just life to be enjoyed in all its variety.

    Parent
    Ha (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:10:33 PM EST
    If you mean DfromH and I have a league you are definitely in it.

    Parent
    Shucks, thanks! I learn a lot from you (none / 0) (#122)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:25:50 PM EST
    guys,that's for sure. I'll have to Netflix a few of those films now.

    You would like this book . He really is a good writer, and he reads it very entertainingly too. The last fictional 'bad ride' is great. He gets picked up by a guy planning to kill all cult film directors. His plans for John include assault with a diseased penis.

    Parent

    Exactly. (none / 0) (#157)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:53:28 PM EST
    And for the record, you're not out of our league at all. But if you're angling to be cast as an uptight but well meaning character in a John Waters film, I'm afraid that Mink Stole has already beaten you to the punch.

    ;-D

    Parent

    Russell Banks' novel (none / 0) (#57)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 11:45:25 AM EST
    "Lost Memories of Skin" is a an interesting listen.

    Parent
    Won't be able to see any of the (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:44:24 AM EST
    World Cup today.  Can someone root for and objectify Uruguay for me?

    I got this (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:51:27 AM EST
    Love You! (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:07:24 AM EST
    Will Thad pull it off? (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:16:10 AM EST
    Or will the TeaParty?  I starting to think it might be the TP.  
    Not sure it's all bad news for us if they do.  Cochran won't be voting very different from the other guy and another completely insane TPer can only help Dems in '16.

    I'm all for the GOP letting their freak flag fly (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:07:15 PM EST
    Only them being completely intransigent can break the Dems will to compromise with so-called GOP moderates. At this point I'd  rather nothing get done than something horrible. The fever needs to  climax.

    Parent
    If what is happening (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:31:38 AM EST
    here in GA is any indication, I would bet money on the tea party. Last polling I saw had tea partier Kingston ahead in the GOP primary.

    Parent
    Kingston (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:39:40 AM EST
    Is the best example I can think of that distinctions between the TeaParty and the Republican Party are irrelevant.  
    He is a mainstream TPer.

    We probably can't win Mississippi but we could win GA.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#45)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:08:51 AM EST
    I would say Kingston shed whatever he had going for him and became a full tea partier. The tea party thinks he's a great candidate. The truth is he is a horrible candidate but being a bad candidate hasn't stopped people from winning in GA namely Saxby. Some Republicans seem to think that Nunn is a "test" for a Hillary 2016 candidacy in how many women's votes she can pull in. I really don't know what her chances are. Polls have her 7 points down and 7 points up.

    The only thing I think I can honestly predict for the fall is I do not see any split tickets. Both Kingston and Deal have been pandering to the far right. How much that turns off the rest of the voters I can't say.

    Parent

    Latest poll averaging (none / 0) (#40)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:45:08 AM EST
    Kingston leading in GA at +11 (election day 7/22)

    McDaniel leading in MS at +6.3 (polls are now open in Misssissippi and close at 8pm ET)

    Parent

    Listening between the sound bites (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:11:02 PM EST
    On MSNBC starting to thing Cochran will pull it out.

    Parent
    Cochran is pushing himself as a centrist (none / 0) (#123)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:32:21 PM EST
    and asking Dems to cross over and vote in the open primary. Cochran as the middle. Only in the south.

    Parent
    If he wins with black votes (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:07:20 PM EST
    Which is looking likely,  seen pics of long lines of black voters, the TeaPartys collective head will explode .

    Parent
    Polls are closed. (none / 0) (#126)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:12:59 PM EST
    I suspect McDaniel wins.

    Parent
    You know (none / 0) (#129)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:22:54 PM EST
    if Cochran does with African American votes you're right about the tea party heads exploding but what does it mean beyond that? Are they going to sit home in November and not vote for Cochran? Are those voters going to abandon Travis in the fall and vote again for Cochran? And what if Cochran wins in the fall? He is all of a sudden going to owe NOTHING to the tea party or the club for growth crackpots and actually is going to have to listen to African Americans in Mississippi? This could be a win/win for African Americans in MS as long as the tea party candidate does not get nominated. If he gets nominate they better home than Travis can beat him.

    Parent
    I honestly don't care much (none / 0) (#136)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:02:21 PM EST
    And I don't think it matters much.  At least to us.  I wouldn't mind seeing the TP lose but I can also see the upside of him winning.   The republican establishment can certainly see the downside.  Which is why they have pulled out all the stops up to and including shamelessly courting black votes.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#139)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:09:18 PM EST
    all I have to say is that if Cochran wins the GOP primary and then wins in November I hope he doesn't forget those voters who helped put him there. Maybe this type of thing can produce a change of heart in some of these southern conservatives. I'm really tired of the GOP blaming African Americans for every problem and calling them names. If they just quit that it would be a move in the right direction for the entire country.

    Parent
    58% in (none / 0) (#144)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:42:17 PM EST
    Cochran leads by 8000 votes, but the 2 biggest counties for McDaniel last time haven't reported. It's going to be another close one.

    Parent
    The real miracle is that if he wins (none / 0) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 08:45:59 PM EST
    He will have won by campaigning on a active tole for the federal government.
    In freakin Mississippi in 2014.
    Holyhell who would have predicted that a year ago?

    Cochran promotes D.C. influence to fend off tea party challenge

    "I hope to be able to continue to use my influence in Washington to be sure that we get our share of the federal dollars that are available to help us," he told the gathering. His campaign bus distills that message into three words: "Thad for Mississippi." And it's been that way for more than 40 years.



    Parent
    Capt (none / 0) (#147)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:03:19 PM EST
    Looks like it will wind up Cochran by about 3000 votes (although there is still 20% of the vote left to be counted)

    Parent
    May be even tighter than 3000 (none / 0) (#150)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:30:54 PM EST
    92% in now (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:32:04 PM EST
    With about the same lead

    Parent
    I wish they would call it already (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:36:16 PM EST
    I want to watch Tyrant

    Parent
    They are waiting for all of (none / 0) (#153)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:38:25 PM EST
    Jones and Desoto Counties to report. They are McDaniel strongholds.

    Parent
    Wowee (none / 0) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:02:22 PM EST
    If he wins with 3 or 4 thousand black votes you will only have to stick your head out the window to hear TP heads exploding.

    Parent
    CALLED (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:05:10 PM EST
    Thaddie wins

    Parent
    That article (none / 0) (#149)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:08:29 PM EST
    is yet another example of the tea party monster shooting at everybody in sight.

    So the tea partiers that broke into the nursing home are being charged. Probably more tea partiers in jail. They can join the ones from my county that filed false police reports.

    Parent

    Well that is an interesting twist (none / 0) (#162)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:44:08 PM EST
    Kind of wish Dems had stayed out of it and let Thad fall, and mobilize to beat McDaniel in the fall. But It's their state and I can't blame them for wanting to beat the TP sooner rather than later.

    Parent
    Tyrant starts tonight on FX (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:02:18 PM EST
    The reviews are mixed as you would expect for such a story line.  For me I think it sounds interesting.  And I really liked Homeland.  I plan to give it a chance.

    The Hollywood Reporter's chief TV critic Tim Goodman says in his review that "the pilot is strong and entertaining but not immediately a knockout punch ... but that first episode ends in a place that will make viewers want to tune in the following week to see where it goes. And where Tyrant goes will be crucial -- because while the storyline seems rather clear, the pilot doesn't establish a tone and a direction that's immediately identifiable ... it's certainly provocative and complex, particularly given its ambition and scope, not to mention the foreign location and politically-charged backdrop for the Godfather-style premise."
    Of the cast, he notes that "Rayner, a little-known actor, is a real find and excellently conveys the conflict of going back home (the writers and Gordon also do a fine job of telling his personality-shaping development through flashbacks). Finnigan is pretty great in most everything she does ... although we get just a small taste of Justin Kirk in the pilot as a U.S. diplomat, his presence here is welcome." Still, in watching only the pilot, Tyrant has its flaws. "Despite Barhom's magnetic presence as Jamal, the character is written needlessly over the top in the pilot -- to the point of maddening distraction ... it's too early to give a definitive endorsement to Tyrant, despite its potential."


    Interesting from Hollywood reporter (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:06:53 PM EST
    LINK

    Turmoil on 'Tyrant': The Dramatic Backstory of FX's Middle East Epic

    Ang Lee came and went. So did the creator. Now "Homeland" producer Howard Gordon attempts to sell America -- and the world -- on his audacious Arab drama.

    Parent

    The ads made it look good.... (none / 0) (#128)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:17:23 PM EST
    I'll give it a try too as my Fargo replacement.

    At least the star is good looking, that may be enough for a summer show in my book.

    Parent

    I always liked the guy from Weeds. (none / 0) (#155)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:47:56 PM EST
    Think he is sort underrated as as actor

    Parent
    This (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:51:06 PM EST
    Whoa, is he in Tyrant too? (none / 0) (#160)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 10:37:12 PM EST
    Love  him. Weeds, Angels in America- great actor.

    Parent
    I liked it (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 11:30:50 PM EST
    A lot.  Didn't realize Alice Krige was in it.  Love her.  I think the son is gay.  That will be an interesting story line.  I fear it will not end well for him.

    Parent
    I love watching McDaniels whine (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 09:18:28 AM EST
    He has refused to concede.  
    And may just add, when he is miffed he seems just a tiny bit "effeminate".  Although considering recent history I do not expect anyone to point that out on the record.  Just a little prissy around the edges is all.

    You should (none / 0) (#181)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 10:09:16 AM EST
    read some of the meltdowns on twitter over this. They are screaming vote for Travis Childers and all kinds of nonsense. It's hysterical.

    Parent
    I know see below (none / 0) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 10:11:13 AM EST
    It's a (none / 0) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 10:10:14 AM EST
    beautiful day in the neighborhood....

    From J. Fund, National Review-

    The Flyer That Got Thad Cochran Elected

    You really need to read the comments.  I was going to quote some but they are just to nasty I don't think J would like it.  But you REALLY need to read them.  

    Parent

    That is some great stuff there (none / 0) (#184)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 10:44:25 AM EST
    Thad Cochran - RINO!!! The stupid....it burns....

    Parent
    And Lindsey Graham (none / 0) (#194)
    by Zorba on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 11:57:19 AM EST
    is a "pinko commie liberal"?
    Really???
    These people live in an alternate universe.

    Parent
    The really scary part (none / 0) (#197)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 12:11:45 PM EST
    Is that compared to the people they want to out in office, the people they believe are real conservatives, both statements are true.  

    Parent
    It's going to be (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 12:18:38 PM EST
    interesting to see what happens in November---whether these people are so completely convinced that someone like Graham is evil that they sit home or whether they hold their nose and vote for someone like Graham.

    Parent
    So many are saying McDaniels should (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 12:24:42 PM EST
    Run as an independent.  He seems like the type that might.  If he does that we probably win.  And many pushing for it seem to be fine with that.  They just want to stick it to the establishment GOP.

    Parent
    They are perfectly (none / 0) (#185)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 10:53:45 AM EST
    awful and I guess they're not bright enough to realize that Cochran telling African Americans that the tea party wants to keep them from voting is something they already believed because of the tea party's OWN actions.

    It will be interesting to see if they follow through on their threats of voting for Childers or sit home in the fall.

    Parent

    Cochran's base (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 11:27:12 AM EST
    also came home:

    He convinced black voters to be for him.

    According to the Fix's Philip Bump, runoff turnout in the 24 counties with a black population of 50 percent or more was up almost 40 percent from the primary. In all other counties, turnout was up just 16 percent.  That is an absolutely stunning stat -- and tells much of the story of the runoff.  Cochran's ability to convince a strongly Democratic constituency to be for him -- despite the fact that every Democratic consultant believed McDaniel gave the party a better chance to win the seat in the fall -- is simply remarkable.

    He found lots more votes in his base.

    Every time I asked Cochran allies what their path to victory was in the runoff, they told me that lots and lots of Cochran voters didn't cast ballots on June 3 because they didn't really think the incumbent was in trouble. I rolled my eyes. Not in trouble? After millions of dollars in TV ads on both sides and national media coverage of the race everywhere?  Well, they were right. In Hinds County, Cochran's base, he got 10,928 votes on June 3.  On Tuesday night, he got 17,927 (with 99 percent of precincts in the county reporting). For you non-math majors out there, that's 7,000 more votes in three weeks time.  McDaniel, on the other hand, got 5,621 votes in Hinds on June 3 and 6,962 votes on June 24 -- an increase of just over 1,000. Considering that Cochran's margin statewide will be around 6,500 votes, you might say that was the difference.



    Parent
    I think that makes sense (none / 0) (#191)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 11:42:04 AM EST
    Maybe he did did not need to go after anyone but his own base, but I certainly can't blame him for covering all the 'bases', so to speak.  Of course he is a Republican, so his version of going after Dem and African American votes was bound to be pretty ham-handed, involving scare tactics and lies, since that is what works with his own base.

    Parent
    He didn't have time to try it the Dem way: (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 11:43:15 AM EST
    Promises he does not intend to keep.

    Parent
    Nobody (none / 0) (#192)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 11:42:54 AM EST
    is saying that he didn't get any Republican votes. The thing is he had to get crossover votes to win and could not rely solely on the GOP to push him over the top.

    Parent
    That's good for him (none / 0) (#195)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 12:04:56 PM EST
    It's going to take lots of votes to win a general election too - from people of all parties.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#198)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 12:13:56 PM EST
    I'm not so sure in MS. I would think you could win an election there with just the GOP base. That being said I guess we'll see whether he starts going to the far right to try to pick up tea party votes or if he continues on the current course.

    Parent
    So many levels... (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 11:36:02 AM EST
    Of course Cochran knows what the Tea Party is trying to do, because it is just exactly what the GOP is usually trying to do, and he will get right back to doing it in November.

    Parent
    Busy Legal Day (none / 0) (#196)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 12:11:15 PM EST