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A Progressive Proposal To "Shore Up" Social Security

Bernie Sanders:

If we are serious about making Social Security strong and solvent for the next 75 years, President Obama has the right solution. On October 14, 2010, he restated a long-held position that the cap on income subject to Social Security payroll taxes, now at $106,800, should be raised. As the president has long stated, it is absurd that billionaires pay the same amount into the system as someone who earns $106,800.

With the richest people in this country getting richer and the middle class in decline, it is absurd that billionaires pay the same amount into the Social Security system as someone who earns $106,800.

Kent Conrad won't like it though.

Speaking for me only

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    If Obama had wanted his (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:02:30 PM EST
    commission to suggest raising the cap, he would have put someone on it who would be in favor of doing so - in fact he would have stacked the deck.  Instead, he chose people like Alan Simpson whose negative view of Social Security and pretty much all government social programs.

    I've read a lot in the past two days (none / 0) (#5)
    by Warren Terrer on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:26:20 PM EST
    discussing what exactly was Obama thinking when he created this commission and staffed it with GOP troglodytes such as Simpson. I've read opinions all the way from it was all a game of brilliant 11-dimensional chess to save social security, to he's really a Republican out to destroy it.

    And yet I find none of these views convincing. I'm still looking for a convincing explanation of what this commission was supposed to accomplish.

    Parent

    Well, given the fact that these (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:45:27 PM EST
    commissions are designed to support preconceived notions and political ideology almost without exception, it is very, very difficult for me to believe that Obama is personally supportive of the recommendations.

    Sometimes the obvious answer to a question is the correct one.

    If you know how the politics of these committees work in Washington - and how important it is to "honor" the generally egotistical and "important" panelists.  Then if you understand that no one picks people with whom they disagree (much) and no one picks people who will embarrass them or derail their agenda, you know that game is pretty much always rigged.  It is pretty straight-forward really.

    The only thing that surprises me about this whole thing is that Obama picked someone as obvious as Simpson - the guy is notorious for his extremely negative feelings about the social safety net.  No one in their right mind would think that he could be moved - and he wouldn't participate in this commission if he thought for a minute that he'd be publicly embarrassed by having the White House rebuke his views.

    Parent

    he's clueless, but doesn't know it. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by observed on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:57:19 PM EST
    That explains the rest

    Parent
    That's definitely (none / 0) (#14)
    by Warren Terrer on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 01:00:45 PM EST
    a possibility. I'd still like to know what his train of thought was on this, even if it was clueless, just so I can have a little evidence.

    Parent
    Perhaps there was none (none / 0) (#15)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 01:16:15 PM EST
    train of thought that is. he may have just bought into the BS and then called all the "really smart people" into the room. . . . .

    Parent
    Raising the cap on Social Security (none / 0) (#11)
    by christinep on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:48:21 PM EST
    contributions is listed among the Chairs' proposals. So, it is included. I'm glad that you would support that.

    Parent
    What we need is a serious Bernie Sanders (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:03:41 PM EST
    for president "write in" movement.

    Regardless if it materializes, that just might be how I cast my vote in 2012. I am tired of voting for evil even if it is lesser. If stealing from the poor to benefit the rich is not evil, than I don't know what is.  

    But where can we find ... (none / 0) (#6)
    by Demi Moaned on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:37:27 PM EST
    a 'serious' Bernie Sanders?

    "Half joke and all serious," as my eighth-grade teacher liked to say.

    It's long been a theme of Glenn Greenwald how our public debates are structured to marginalize anyone (e.g., those who opposed the invasion of Iraq beforehand) deemed insufficiently 'serious'. The insider consensus seems to be that only people who 'acknowledge' that Social Security is in trouble are 'serious'.

    Parent

    I agree. (none / 0) (#9)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:44:33 PM EST
    Comment was not well constructed.

    Parent
    I'd join you in that movement (none / 0) (#18)
    by cawaltz on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 01:25:40 PM EST
    Like yourself I'm sick of "bad" and "worse." At least this way when the GOP starts in on their Socialist crap they'd be finally getting it right. So there's that bonus too!

    Parent
    Good, we now have a grassroot movement (none / 0) (#19)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 01:32:45 PM EST
    of two. All we need is a couple hundred million more and we win. Hey, if a write in candidate can win in Alaska it is possible.

    Parent
    You guys ain't alone... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:07:37 PM EST
    me and 39,999 or so other knuckleheads voted for Jimmy McMillan for governor of NY...there are more of us than we think because the media totally ignores anything that isn't stale Brand R/D, unless it is to poke fun.

    Ask your co-workers and neighbors, "a pox on both their houses" is very popular sentiment.  We just gotta find the stones to not play "lesser of two evils" anymore.

    Parent

    Why not start a ranked choice voting (none / 0) (#31)
    by hairspray on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 10:03:03 PM EST
    strategy in your town like we did in Oakland Ca.  We just elected a come from behind Chinese woman as the mayor. She was outspent and didn't have the name recognition that the front runner had, but the citizens didn't want Mr. Deep Pockets/machine politics and was able to foil him.  Without ranked choice it would never have happened.

    Parent
    I think we know what Conrad can (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:14:47 PM EST
    do, and where he can go.

    Oooh, but if we lift the ceiling, then the Dems are once again evil tax-raisers.  And if we don't extend the tax cuts to the wealthy, then we're evil tax-raisers.

    And we know how much Obama hates it when the other side call him names...he's already given in on the Bush tax cuts, so any moment now, he will have something mealy-mouthed to say about raising the cap on wages subject to SS tax.

    You know, as bad as I used to feel when Bush was president, as often as I used to bemoan that we had 2 years or 4 years more of his insanity, I look to the next 2 years with more horror than I think I ever felt about the Bush years.  In the Bush years, at least I had some hope for Dems to save us eventually, but Obama - with lots of help from too many like-minded Dems - has just killed that dream deader than dead.

    Sanders' proposal (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Warren Terrer on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:21:58 PM EST
    takes SS funding in the direction that it really should go, although it doesn't entirely get there.

    The current funding system was developed at a time when America was on the gold standard. In that context it made sense that people had to save up money out of their own pockets in order to spend it later in their retirement.

    But today in the absence of a gold standard this funding model is no longer needed. SS should just be funded out of general fiscal spending, with no special payroll taxes or what have you, because there is no need for the government to save money before it can spend it in a fiat currency system like today's. Furthermore, the taxes used to fund SS are thoroughly regressive because they fall only on the first $106k of income, as Sanders notes.

    Just get rid of special SS-related taxes, fund it out of general spending, and implement a thoroughly progressive income tax system with no special deductions for rich people and their sources of income (so that Warren Buffet no longer pays less tax each year than his secretary).

    I know my proposal has a snowball's chance in hell because it falls within a paradigm of government finance that no one in congress, let alone the neo-liberal Obama, agrees with or even understands. And even if the Democratic side of the aisle did comprehend and like it, the GOP never will and will most likely use a general-funding model as a means to destroy the program entirely the next time they are in office. So we are stuck with the current imperfect but nevertheless functional system.

    Sanders' proposal will take it one step further toward my proposal by at least making its funding more progressive. But I have no faith that Obama will get behind any such proposal. The best we can hope for from Obama vis-a-vis Social Security is that he just leaves it alone.

    I agree. (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by honora on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:39:30 PM EST
    If we stick with the current funding mechanism, I think it is fair for the rich to argue that they should not be taxed for all of their income if when they retire payouts are means tested. Basically, you are making the rich pay more into the system and then not allowing them to recover under it.  That makes no sense if it is billed as an 'insurance policy'.  It makes much more sense to call it what it is a social safety net and then fund it out of general revenue.

    I guess the fear is that if social security is not its own fiefdom, then there is more of a risk that it will be abandoned.  I guess I just don't see that the protection is there for the system now (the assets were looted by Congress), so why not give up the illusion.

    Parent

    You're half right (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Demi Moaned on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:40:31 PM EST
    ... in that I agree with what you are saying about Progressive taxation and Social Security.

    But another reason strongly in favor of the separate tax is that it's a way to make Social Security funding immune from ordinary budgetary considerations.

    Parent

    But (none / 0) (#12)
    by Warren Terrer on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 12:48:47 PM EST
    that's only because 'ordinary budgetary considerations' are themselves thoroughly constrained by the neo-liberal paradigm of government finance.

    But as I've said, since that paradigm is so thoroughly entrenched and supported by the president and almost every member of congress, it has no hope of being abandoned. So the thing we should be fighting for right now is LEAVE SOCIAL SECURITY ALONE.

    Parent

    More from Bernie Sanders (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 01:17:46 PM EST
    The Simpson-Bowles deficit reduction plan is extremely disappointing and something that should be vigorously opposed by the American people. The huge increase in the national debt in recent years was caused by two unpaid wars, tax breaks for the wealthy, a Medicare prescription drug bill written by the pharmaceutical industry, and the Wall Street bailout. Unlike Social Security, none of these proposals were paid for. Not only has Social Security not contributed a dime to the deficit, it has a $2.6 trillion surplus.

    "It is reprehensible to ask working people, including many who do physically-demanding labor, to work until they are 69 years of age. It also is totally impractical. As they compete for jobs with 25-year-olds, many older workers will go unemployed and have virtually no income. Frankly, there will not be too much demand within the construction industry for 69-year-old bricklayers. link



    ::sigh::: (none / 0) (#20)
    by sj on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:09:05 PM EST
    ... [hearts floating into the ether] ...

    Parent
    Join the write in movement for 2012 (none / 0) (#21)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:11:15 PM EST
    Is there one? (none / 0) (#23)
    by sj on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:15:21 PM EST
    Yep I just started it earlier Join today. (none / 0) (#24)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:27:12 PM EST
    A Bernie Sanders for president grassroot "write in" movement.  cawaltz said she would join. If you joined we would have 3 people in the movement.
    MO Blue:

    I am tired of voting for evil even if it is lesser. If stealing from the poor to benefit the rich is not evil, than I don't know what is.  



    cawaltz:

    Like yourself I'm sick of "bad" and "worse." At least this way when the GOP starts in on their Socialist crap they'd be finally getting it right. So there's that bonus too!



    Parent
    how awsum would it be (none / 0) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:29:38 PM EST
    if a write in won for president.  talk about a mandate


    Parent
    Be "awsum" (none / 0) (#26)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:36:33 PM EST
    Join today and be number 4. We choose to limit ourselves by saying things are impossible. Improbable maybe, but so was flying at one time.

    Parent
    Of course I'll join (none / 0) (#27)
    by sj on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:46:45 PM EST
    Is there a t-shirt?

    Parent
    betcha I could come up ... (none / 0) (#28)
    by sj on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:48:23 PM EST
    ...with a few more members, too.

    Parent
    Just need a mere hundred million more. (none / 0) (#29)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:58:54 PM EST
    We will have a t-shirt design contest closer to the election. Don't want to peak too soon.

    Parent
    I'll join happily (none / 0) (#32)
    by DancingOpossum on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:29:09 AM EST
    But only if he does NOT become a Democrat!

    Parent
    Why (none / 0) (#17)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 01:22:51 PM EST

    As the president has long stated, it is absurd that billionaires pay the same amount into the system as someone who earns $106,800.

    Why is that absurd, as they both pay in the same amount and they both receive the same amount in retirement.  That seems completely fair.

    Why is that absurd? (none / 0) (#22)
    by sj on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:12:14 PM EST
    Because apparently there's a shortfall. Or something.  In +-30 years.

    Besides, why not pay more and then get more in retirement dollars?  That seems completely fair.

    Parent