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The Value Of A Label

As a Centrist, it disturbs me that right wing organizations like The Third Way are trying to misappropriate my label. In a memo to Congress (why does Third Way write memos to Congress? To be able to leak it to The New York Times), The Third Way writes:

Both politically and substantively, liberals need moderates. By rejecting the big-tent coalition that brought them power in the first place, the only things Democrats will accomplish are permanent minority status and the frustration of their legislative priorities. Here are three reasons liberals need moderates:

1. Liberal members need the votes of moderate colleagues to make legislative progress.
2. Liberal members need moderate voters to win and keep their seats.
3. Liberals need moderates — from both parties — to forge good policy.

The first two "reasons" are about labels and ridiculous. "Moderate" is a meaningless term (Pssst, so is my preferred term "centrist.") Here is an idea - how about we start calling progressives moderates. Then we'll win! And in fact, that is precisely what I have argued for for years:

Politics is not a battle for the middle. It is a battle for defining the terms of the political debate. It is a battle to be able to say what is the middle.

And so it has always been. Third Way is a right wing organization intended to define right wing policies as "moderate." Entities like Third Way are harmful to progressives because they move the Overton Window to the right. Progressives should desire the demise of organizations like Third Way, as opposed to wishing pols like Heath Shuler lose. The demise of Third Way forwards progressivism. The loss by a Jim Marshall will not.

Here's why - it has to do with Third Way's reason number 3 - the idea that "moderates help forge good policy." This is absolutely false. "Moderates" of the Third Way ilk do extreme damage to good policy. Consider the examples provided by Third Way:

The Civil Rights Act of 1964, for example, was a bipartisan compromise reached after a 54-day filibuster in the Senate led, incidentally, by a Democrat—Georgia Senator Richard Russell.[i] The final bill passed 73-27 after Minority Leader Everett Dirksen rounded up enough Republicans to invoke cloture.[ii]

Likewise, the Social Security Act of 1935 passed with 372 yeses in the House and 77 yeses in the Senate,[iii] while Medicare passed the House in 1965 with 307 votes in the House and 70 votes in the Senate. Politifact.com rated a longstanding liberal claim that no Republicans supported Social Security and Medicare until the very end as “false.”[iv]

The Civil Rights Acts and the Social Security Act were not the product of "moderate" policymaking. They were the product of PROGRESSIVE policymaking, coupled with a political operation that knew how to make progressive policy "moderate." In 1935, Third Way would have been arguing against the Social Security Act and in 1965 it would have been arguing against the Civil Rights Acts. And in 2010, they argued against the public option. That's what they do. These examples are exactly why groups like Third Way are so harmful - they move the middle to the right.

It so happens that on a lot of issues, I agree with Third Way substantively. Trade for instance. And I will argue these points with them. What will not do, and what Third Way does every day, is pretend that my views on those issues are progressive. Because they aren't. If Third Way was an honest organization, it could contribute to the Democratic discussion. But it isn't. And it doesn't.

So my view is to the degree they are the best option, keep the "moderate" Dem pols. But ditch Third Way.

Speaking for me only

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    IMO in just two years the Dems have (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 12:42:52 PM EST
    managed to put themselves in the position of achieving permanent minority status (redistricting) by passing Third Way (i.e. moderate Republican) legislation. Anyone who has been paying attention, knows that the liberal or progressive members of Congress capitulated on every major piece of legislation and the most corporate or conservative Dems had the final say.  

    Well, furniture and dogs (none / 0) (#23)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 04:26:48 PM EST
    will be safer in my state, when this "centrist" gets elected lieutenant governor -- as is likely -- and but a heartbeat away from being my boss . . . and thousands of gay state employees.

    Of course, as the link shows, this GOP candidate's gay uncle will be even unhappier than he has been since she denounced the brand-new, hard-won, domestic-partner coverage for state employees because next thing ya know, they'll get the same-sex marriage ban overturned in my state and will marry tables, clocks, and/or dogs.

    Oh, and the "centrist" GOP candidate for secretary of state was sued this week by, according to the suit, a woman whom he impregnated apparently with use of the date-rape drug.  Btw, she is lesbian.  Btw2, he is a self-styled minister who calls himself "Apostle King."

    And the next governor?  An anti-intellectual who never graduated from college after being exposed for his slimy campaign tactics of desperation even then, in student politics -- and he's also an anti-abortion absolutist, even in cases of rape and/or incest.

    And all this and more in an allegedly "progressive" state where the White House just had to meddle and muck up the Dem slate. . . .

    Parent

    Sounds like there are some real (none / 0) (#29)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 04:51:48 PM EST
    winners running in you state. Then again I am beginning to believe that the entire country has gone out of its ever loving mind.

    Parent
    Come to Vt (none / 0) (#39)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:28:15 PM EST
    :-)  Or Hawaii, apparently.  But our cost of living, especially housing, is one heck of a lot lower.

    Parent
    Here's a label that everyone should strive for (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by vicndabx on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 03:07:07 PM EST
    open-minded

    I'm reminded of the essay topic (none / 0) (#40)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:32:01 PM EST
    on my English SAT lo these many decades ago: "If you're too open-minded, your brains will fall out.  Discuss."

    Parent
    that statement assumes (none / 0) (#42)
    by cpinva on Fri Oct 29, 2010 at 01:20:14 AM EST
    open-skulled as well, a basic necessity, if the brains are to fall out.

    Parent
    Democrats haven't been "in power" (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by tigercourse on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 05:28:39 PM EST
    for decades. Even when they outnumber Republicans in the House, Senate or Whitehouse, they're just taking up space.

    The only two positions I've seen of yours... (none / 0) (#1)
    by seabe on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 12:17:51 PM EST
    ...that don't identify with the progressive bloc are trade and foreign policy. But I lean more towards free trade than fair trade, as I believe protectionism typically hurts everyone involved. Does this make me a centrist?

    In the end, labels are just stupid in general.

    Yup.

    A few years ago another poster and I had a heated discussion about abortion, him being a "pro-choice moonbat" and I being a "pro-life winger."

    Then we discussed the actual specifics of our positions and found they were exactly the same.

    Labels are stupid in general.

    Parent

    I agree 100% (none / 0) (#10)
    by republicratitarian on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    "As a centrist" (none / 0) (#2)
    by diogenes on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 12:27:52 PM EST
    Compared to the Tea Party guys, I'm a centrist too.  Does that mean we agree on everything?

    true enough. (none / 0) (#4)
    by cpinva on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 12:34:38 PM EST
    had the "moderates" been in charge, we might just now be getting around to passing social security. had the "moderates" been in charge, the civil rights act would still be in the discussion stages.

    compared to the tea partiers, karl marx was a "centrist".

    john Meechum was on (none / 0) (#6)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 12:47:42 PM EST
    Morning Joe today touting the merits of the Third Way, but much of what he said sounded much more like Republican philosophy than a bona fide "Third Way".

    I don't think that life offers the luxury of three or more ways all the time in life, either.  Not effective ways, anyway.  Sometimes you really only have one choice that makes sense, in fact.

    The healthcare bill suffered the consequences of people pretending that there were more than a few ways to get certain things done.  Pragmatism - in the functional not political sense - went out the window on that behemoth.

    Meacham (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 12:56:00 PM EST
    has been very successful in destroying Newsweek for good.

    Parent
    Yes. He did that well. (none / 0) (#11)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 01:01:32 PM EST
    He's an interesting character.  He's one of the most effective destructive "nice guys" that I've seen in a while.

    Parent
    Meachum is a republican (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 02:20:44 PM EST
    who doesnt like being associated with republicans.

    Parent
    which is understandable (none / 0) (#16)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 02:21:03 PM EST
    on some level I suppose

    Parent
    IMO the the Third Way (none / 0) (#7)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 12:54:03 PM EST
    was always a Republican based philosophy. Not sure what a bona fide "Third Way" philosophy would be.

    Parent
    Well, for the most part I haven't (none / 0) (#9)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 12:59:30 PM EST
    heard many high profile devotes who have managed to make me think that it is anything more than Republican-lite - or Republican - but I have known people personally who take from both parties in their ideological construct - some have made more sense than others and some have had more success with particular issues than some others to which they apply their hybrid thinking.  But as far as the greater public debate, the third way thing just seems like a spin on fairly basic principles of GOP ideology.

    Parent
    Mixed up Labels (none / 0) (#12)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 01:29:06 PM EST
    Somewhere along the way, we wanted to be different than the Europeans and we made up some labels that mean nothing, now it seems that the political spectrum needs to be cleared up:  

    How would this spectrum apply here?  

    The Conservatives:  Are the nationalistic, ethnocentric, free market with big dose of Church and State.  (GOP)

    Liberals:  Free markets and sane social policies, the neoliberal crowd.  They usually align with the right.   ( most of the so called Independents and moderate/centrists)

    Insert Greens here in some countries.  

    The Progressive, is just a run of the mill mid century, Social Democrat in any of the European countries.  Some market controls, strong social welfare, clear public purpose.  Yes, all the stuff of the post war administrations in Europe and America.  
    The Roosevelt Democrat.  

    Insert Greens here in other countries.

    Then we have socialists, real socialists.  Very few left even in Europe, here they are just a bit whacky.    

    Then we have communists, fewer still.  Except in Greece, they have a real cool woman who is really spot on and funny, heh, they have nothing to lose.  

    Funny thing is now in Europe the parties are losing members and they cannot predict their base.  

    Bring back sane political labeling I say.  


    Sane Position (none / 0) (#14)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 01:49:13 PM EST
    The sane position is basically what BTD is arguing for. Whoever gets to convince the larger whole that they are the sane group, defines the center.

    Once sanity is established the rest have to argue that they are not insane, which is a much tougher row to hoe.

    Parent

    Sane, insane - just more labels, (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 02:24:58 PM EST
    open to interpretation, and subject to change based on which way the wind is blowing and how many people consider something normal.

    BTD calling himself a centrist means one thing to someone calling him- or herself a liberal and something else to someone who self-labels as conservative.  And the reason for that is that what we think some point on the spectrum means or represents is based on where we place ourselves on it.

    I consider myself a reasonable, sane person, but I also identify as a liberal - that might make me "insane" and "irrational" to someone at the other end of the spectrum, so who's right?

    Silly question.

    Everyone thinks he or she is right - we don't generally set out to take the so-called wrong position, do we?  All I can do is follow my own course, based on what I believe and think, and as long as that works for me, I don't care what anyone else wants to call me, or what they want to call themselves.

    But how do you make this work within a political party structure?  You vote on issues, you decide which ones matter the most to you, what not-so-great positions you can accept as a trade-off and do what you can to herd your representatives to the positions you want them to take.  Because the more people who share my positions, the more likely it is that that position becomes the norm, or, if you will, the new center.

    Labels are fleeting; issues are not.  Fight for your issues and stop letting labels get in the way.

    Parent

    Labels Are Irrelevant (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 02:42:38 PM EST
    As you and BTD say. But in order to talk about political strategy one must use words.

    Defining and believing that your views are the sane ones is a good first step, but if you are fighting against an insane world, well then world holds the center and you are outside of the center trying to move it left or right.

    Those that hold the center do not have to fight for gaining it, just retaining it.

    The fact that Faux news, a radical right wing operation, can exist in the mainstream media (normal), means that the center is skewed to the right.

    Our fight is to be the new normal....  not there yet... lol

    Parent

    But aren't the words part of the problem? (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 03:57:25 PM EST
    And look how distorted the labels have become - the Democrats ran for the hills from the liberal label, replaced it with "progressive," but lost the heart of what it meant to be liberal along the way.

    We see it over and over even here, when one person claims, for example, that the Affordable Care Act was "the most liberal legislation in a generation;" people like me, who actually identify as liberal, don't see that at all - we think it is as Republican as the Dole plan of 1994, which it closely resembles - and we're not wrong, because of where we are looking at it from.

    But to those at the right end of the spectrum, and even those to the right of center, it is decidedly liberal - and they're not wrong to think that, because of where they are looking at it from.

    Part of the Dems' problem is trying to be all things to all people, which isn't leadership, but an exercise in futility.

    I don't know what the answer is, I really don't, but I think, for me, it has to start with not rewarding mediocrity OR its friend, mediocre-bordering-on-execrable; the less we expect, the less we tend to get.

    And I think the last decade pretty much bears that out.


    Parent

    I like your discussion (none / 0) (#38)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:51:02 PM EST
    about "all in one's perspective." A theory of relativity within which we all operate.

    Parent
    Oh, yeah, that's the point...

    Parent
    Here's one way to handle Fox News (none / 0) (#26)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 04:38:11 PM EST
    when a crew shows up at a Dem Party (private) meeting.

    Fighting Dems!  Remember them?

    Parent

    Trying again on the Fighting Dems link (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 04:39:15 PM EST
    here.  Enjoy!

    Parent
    Minor correction to this statement: (none / 0) (#19)
    by BTAL on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 02:59:44 PM EST
    Everyone thinks he or she is right...

    Should read:  Most Everyone thinks he or she is right...

    Except for myself who knows they are right.  In fact, Mrs. BTAL says, "She knew she married Mr. Right but didn't realize his middle name was Always."

    ;-)

    Parent

    Going to be irrelevant real soon anyway (none / 0) (#13)
    by TJBuff on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 01:43:45 PM EST
    There are going to be two categories.  Policies that work and what we're doing now.  And I suspect that applies to everything, including foreign policy.

    BTD massively wrong in this case (none / 0) (#24)
    by pluege2 on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 04:27:10 PM EST
    the right has moved the center rightward for 30 years so effectively there is no left anymore. The right has done this by continually pushing the right boundary further and further to the right until now there is literally no boundary of right extremism that isn't considered acceptable and serious right up to armed revolt.

    At its essence, the right has given voters a choice of certainty vs. a mush of center to left that only comes across as confusing. In the absence of a clear left choice, voters have gone with certainty over uncertainty.

    The left, from center left to extreme left have made a massive mistake in not countering every extreme rightward lurch with a countervailing extreme leftward lurch, battling insult for insult about how violently insane the right is vs. how humanistic the left positions are. But instead, by choosing to try to be "Big Tent" and please everyone, they end up pleasing no one.

    Politics is NOT about choosing who you want, its about choosing the least worst. The left has a magnificent position counterbalancing the violent, extreme right - very human, very reassuring to most people once they know what it is. But its been smothered in the Big Tent being too afraid to be seen as standing for anything.

    I really, really like the piece you (none / 0) (#25)
    by jes on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 04:28:57 PM EST
    linked as "for years."

    What Barack Obama Needs To Learn From Richard Hofstadter, Abraham Lincoln and FDR

    by Jeralyn!!!

    Might want to fix that one. I think the real author deserves the credit.

    What Barack Obama Needs To Learn (none / 0) (#28)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 04:43:08 PM EST
    What Barack Obama Needs To Learn From Richard Hofstadter, Abraham Lincoln and FDR
    By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics

    Posted on Thu Jul 13, 2006 at 08:24:09 PM PST
    Tags: (all tags) Share This: Digg!      

    (Guest posted by Big Tent Democrat)



    Parent
    2006! Fascinating insight (none / 0) (#30)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 05:04:33 PM EST
    to wit:
    Obama has learned nothing from Lincoln and nothing from Hofstadter. As wonderfully talented a politician he is, until he does, he will not best serve the interests of progressives and the Democratic Party.

    And so much more there.  Bookmarked.

    I would like to see how Willentz might revise and rewrite his take now, after being on the inside of the 2008 campaign (and a great read he was then, as a chronicler of the campaign).

    Parent

    That was not Wilentz (none / 0) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 05:51:57 PM EST
    How many Sean Wilentzes (none / 0) (#35)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 06:04:44 PM EST
    are there?  This one at the link . . .

    Professor Sean Wilentz, one of our finest living historians and an extremely gifted writer, has written a wonderful quasi-review of a newly released biography of Hofstadter

    . . . was the one whose accounts I read in 2008 (Salon, Newsweek, on blogs, etc.).  Of course, I cannot and would not categorically state whom you read.

    Parent

    The blockquote (none / 0) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 06:26:49 PM EST
    was not Wilentz. To wit, Wilentz did not write this:

    "Obama has learned nothing from Lincoln and nothing from Hofstadter. As wonderfully talented a politician he is, until he does, he will not best serve the interests of progressives and the Democratic Party."

    Parent

    Ah, I see. (none / 0) (#37)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 07:35:15 PM EST
    I know the bloc quote was not his and did not intend it to be so construed by then rambling on to another point.  My structural problem.  Thanks.

    Parent
    ah, thanks. I still find (none / 0) (#41)
    by jes on Fri Oct 29, 2010 at 12:33:43 AM EST
    it a bit confusing. Good catch.

    Parent
    Centrist? (none / 0) (#31)
    by Slado on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 05:22:13 PM EST
    If you're a centrist then so am I!

    BTD you are a lot of things but you're not a centrist.

    More to the point there is no such thing as a true centrist.

    Everyone takes a progressive or conservative stand on every issue.   You may not really care but if forced to choose nobody chooses a centrist alternative.   Because one doesn't exist.

    Case in point.  I favor repealing the death penalty, care less about gay marriage, don't care if gays serve in the military, want to close all our bases around the world etc... etc... on and on but no one on this website would call me a centrist would they?

    There is no person in the whole world who is a centrist, meaning they take middle of the road stands on every issue.

    Everyone has a progressive or conservative position on every issues.   The question is in this election or on this issue what do they care most about.

    This election is about the economy and fiscal responsibility.   And in this election the country is leaning right (right or wrong) on this issue.

    That's why dems are going to loose.

    Politics (none / 0) (#33)
    by lentinel on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 05:41:36 PM EST
    Here is an idea - how about we start calling progressives moderates. Then we'll win!

    I believe that if people who had progressive ideas would fight for them, no one would care what they called themselves. They would grateful for progressive change they could actually experience.

    The most important politicians to me have been ones who have not been elected to anything, but brought about great change in this country. They had no labels. I would cite Martin Luther King and Malcolm X as prime examples. They were leaders. Malcolm is my personal favorite because he was so honest and so brilliant. And he spoke fluently. That is to say, when he talked it came right from his heart and mind. Fluency.

    No label.
    Just issues - and the passion to fight for what is right and just.

    I will probably be called naive for holding these un-elected people up as my personal political champions - naive because we have come to accept the notion that politicians have to straddle all sides to become elected. I don't buy it.

    The only ugly fact that I have to recognize is the people I most admire in public life were assassinated. I think that is quite a disincentive for aspiring leaders. But still, King and Malcolm knew that they were marked, but never relented.

    I believe that the origin of the word "politics" related to citizens.
    To me an American politician would be someone who can truly relate to and identify with the citizens of this country.

    Doesn't seem like too much to ask.