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President Obama's Weekly Address: On Health Care Reform

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    Cool, confident, and collected, as always, (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 09:17:25 AM EST
    but I wonder if this is really the right approach to fire up the base, let alone convince the rest of America.

    We're about as close as we get in America to political street battles, and the President is doing calm web videos. I'm just not sure that's quite right.

    The first (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:03:56 AM EST
    minute was horrible. He was trying to say things are okay because we didnt lose as many jobs as we have before? I'm sorry but I started laughing on that one. Does he really think that we're all supposed to go around and celebrate that? And it all comes off as some sort of detached academic lecture from him. No emotion, nothing.

    Parent
    Yeh, tell that to a quarter of a million (none / 0) (#66)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 05:01:53 PM EST
    Americans who lost jobs last month.  Sorry, folks, but we're just not gonna feel your pain, because fewer of you are in pain than we thought were gonna be in pain, so the rest of us feel better.  Huh?

    Parent
    I know (none / 0) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 05:12:08 PM EST
    it was probably perverse to laugh but it just seemed so ridiculous on it's face that I just couldnt help myself.

    We need a bubba who "feels our pain" not a detatched lecturing academic.

    Parent

    He's detached, indifferent and robotic (2.00 / 0) (#54)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 01:57:54 PM EST
    if you're looking at it from a slightly different perspective.

    There's no measurable passion, or compassion, here - not even when he's referring to his own mother's life-end struggles with health insurance companies. That may be because Obama wasn't particularly involved with his mother's year long battle with cancer - which, unfortunately, coincided with the time (1995) when he was campaigning for the Illinois Senate, while his mother was in Hawaii being taken care of by her parents.

    I'm not saying any of that necessarily makes him a bad person or a bad son. It may just limit his range of personal empathy on these particular matters.

    Parent

    Yes, and he seemed too detached (none / 0) (#9)
    by KeysDan on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:27:05 AM EST
    in his comments on misleading and outlandish information.  Among his corrective facts were no cuts to Medicaid, but he was silent on cuts to Medicare, other than, perhaps, reassurances that groups like AARP "support reform" or, that old timers can rest assured that there will be no euthanasia.

    Parent
    As I recall (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:50:16 AM EST
    AARP "supported" Medicare Part D as well.

    Link

    Parent

    Adding prescription coverage to Medicare (none / 0) (#23)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:54:15 AM EST
    is and was a good idea. Part D was a giveaway to the drug companies, but that was no skin off of AARP's back.

    Honestly, if I were a senior on Medicare, I would have rather had part D as passed than nothing at all.

    Parent

    The position of the AARP (5.00 / 0) (#26)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:57:43 AM EST
    should have been to support a good drug bill.

    AARP (Novelli) supported BUSH's bill.  And the way it all came down was pretty shady, if I recall.  The Democrats were blindsided by the sudden turn of support.

    Parent

    Tom DeLay wasn't going to go (none / 0) (#27)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:58:50 AM EST
    for a good drug bill. So it was this or nothing.

    That's a lesson people on our side have to learn too, IMO.

    Parent

    I do prefer (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:48:16 AM EST
    nothing over what they're offering in the healthcare arena.

    Just as Part D was mostly a boon to Pharma, this will be mostly a boon to the insurance industry.

    Better to have no bill at all.

    Parent

    And BTW (5.00 / 0) (#40)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:52:21 AM EST
    AARP didn't have to endorse ANY bill.  Their endorsement gave cover to the Republicans' bad bill, and weakened the Democrats ability to oppose it or even further negotiate change.

    The endorsement was wrong, corrupt, I'd even say.

    Parent

    It depends on what their goal was (none / 0) (#43)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:59:28 AM EST
    They wanted prescription coverage in Medicare, and they got it. Other concerns are left to other activists.

    Parent
    AARP also got to supply (none / 0) (#50)
    by MO Blue on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 01:39:16 PM EST
    Medicare Part D coverage to their members. Might be one of the reasons it was willing to jump on the bandwagon. Low cost, negotiated drug prices would definitely reduce the amount of premium the insurance industry and AARP could get for Medicare Part D.

    Parent
    WH confirms deal with big pharma. (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 01:41:43 PM EST
    Isn't negotiating lower costs for pharmaceuticals one of the strongest means of lowering medical care costs?  Rahm says don't diss the Dems.  But this should be really big news but isn't.

    Parent
    From what I read on a WH (none / 0) (#62)
    by MO Blue on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 03:09:47 PM EST
    website or publication (can't find link), the negotiated lower drug prices would be only for people who have dual Medicare and Medicaid coverage. While this may be a case where anything is better than nothing, if what I read is an  accurate interpretation of the negotiation, most people will not experience lower prices.

    Parent
    Now I am wondering how Canada, (none / 0) (#74)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 09, 2009 at 01:30:32 AM EST
    UK, and many countries in Europe ever set up their national health care systems.  What did they have before?  Were there powerful insurance companies to placate?  Maybe Hillary knows from her work early in the Clinton admins.  

    Parent
    Good Question (none / 0) (#76)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 09, 2009 at 10:48:47 AM EST
    I only just scanned this on the run so there is probably more to it, but this wiki entry seems to suggest it started in the individual provinces, with different degrees of coverage etc. and worked its way national.

    Parent
    Thanks. Very interesting. (none / 0) (#77)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 09, 2009 at 12:05:18 PM EST
    Tommy Douglas NDP Party (none / 0) (#78)
    by samsguy18 on Sun Aug 09, 2009 at 01:01:33 PM EST
    Was initiated by the Hon. Tommy Douglas of Saskatchewan who became the leader of the NDP.... FYI (Mr. Douglas is Kiefer Sutherlands Grandfather).Was started in the late 60's and by 1974 the Canada Healthcare act was enacted by the health Minister Marc Lalande under Prime Minister Trudeau. The national government involvement was minimal.The provincial governments oversaw their individual health plans. The healthcare was excellent. In the 80's the national government because of escalating costs and problems with keeping the country unified took over. From that point forward they used it as a political pawn.
    In the 90's there was a brain drain of doctors and medical scientists to the US.The government's policies were always politically driven the patients were an after thought. Their tax increases.... ecomomic,healthcare and energy policies put the country in an almost 20 year recession from the mid 80's. The Canadian economy only started to improve over the last 7 years

    Parent
    Please check AARP Medicare Rx (none / 0) (#28)
    by KeysDan on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:01:45 AM EST
    insurance programs, for part D--benefit for the organization as well as some seniors.   However, I do believe that the Medicare Part D provided a much needed addition and strengthened, overall, the Medicare program.  I agree, also, with Andgarden that, in the process, it was a great gift to big pharma--and now a potential place for reform, although it looks like Tauzin has made a favorable deal on that for his clients.

    Parent
    Yeah, I don't think he said (none / 0) (#12)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:32:40 AM EST
    what he needed to. Probably because he can't commit to not making significant changes to Medicare, especially the boondoggle also known as "part D."

    Medicaid varies so much across the country that he doesn't really have to take much responsibility for it.

    Parent

    Obama cares about Universal Health Care? (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by jmacWA on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 09:58:53 AM EST
    I am hard pressed to see that this is the case.  Obama cares about getting something he can call Health Care reform passed, but I cannot see that he cares a lick about Universal Health Care (I.E. a single payer/provider).

    The hardest thing about this debate (for me) is that I am opposed to any of the reforms as they are now constituted as none of them really address Universal Health care, but are simply payoffs to the insurance companies, and other players in the health care industry.  This puts me on the same side as those who are disrupting these town hall meetings etc., and I am not comfortable in this position, but I also will not be blackmailed into supporting the current plans because there are "jaw dropping stupid" people who also oppose the plans.

    Obama isn't even calling it (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:19:13 AM EST
    Health CARE Reform - he is calling it Health INSURANCE reform, perpetuating the myth that having insurance means you have care.

    I firmly believe the DNC wants you to be reluctant to be lumped in with the crazy right-wingers at town halls - they want to be able to say that ONLY these crazy conservatives oppose "the plan."

    Parent

    I completely agree (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by jmacWA on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:33:05 AM EST
    It may be tin foil hat-ish, but I think that this is what they want.  A very strange way to "rally the troops"

    Parent
    Well, AHIP did suggest that framing back in '08 (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by masslib on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:49:53 AM EST
    so...

    Parent
    Oh, I agree with that. You are for Obama-Care (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by masslib on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:06:34 AM EST
    or with the teabags.

    Parent
    You said it best and (none / 0) (#6)
    by addy on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:11:10 AM EST
    I agree. My awkward sentence should not have implied that I think Obama cares about universal healthcare. I can't say that he does.
    I, however do. And, like you probably, will not be happy with anything less than single payer. There's a srong sense of disconnection because the misinterpretations bug me, and the actual ideas from Washington don't measure up.

    Parent
    What (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:06:40 AM EST
    happened is that Obama never put forth a plan, delegated it to congress and the senate which so far has come up with some sort of bail out for the insurance companies. Due to Obama's lack of leadership a vacuum was created and the right wing has filled the vaccuum therefore you're right that they're winning the argument right now. Frankly, I dont think anything is going to pass right now.

    I am so afraid you're right (none / 0) (#13)
    by kempis on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:33:03 AM EST
    I'm still clinging to hope that we will have an affordable, reliable public option when all is said and done, and I will disappointed to the point of profound disgust with Obama and his administration if it doesn't happen.

    I thought he was supposed to be another Great Communicator. So far, he squandered a prime time presser on health care by concluding it with a whack at the Gates affair, which, of course, was all that the media blared the next day, effectively drowning out anything Obama had to say about health care reform. And all of his commentary on the issue, while good, sinks. The deathers and birthers have the floor.

    Maybe we are just too stupid to get this done.

    Parent

    There will be no public option. (none / 0) (#38)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:41:52 AM EST
    The bailout position is co-ops.

    Parent
    I think the latest is (none / 0) (#47)
    by KeysDan on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:36:35 PM EST
    "condos".

    Parent
    ??? Educate me. I am mystified (none / 0) (#48)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:47:07 PM EST
    by your comment.

    Of course, I'm mystified by a lot of things.

    Do I need more coffee?

    Parent

    Sorry, just a lame joke. (none / 0) (#51)
    by KeysDan on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 01:41:09 PM EST
    I really wish someone would press him (none / 0) (#53)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 01:50:00 PM EST
    on the "co-ops" idea, because there are no models for it, at least not in the way Kent Conrad is proposing -- regional co-ops between states.

    In Washington we have Group Health, which, as I said yesterday, has been much maligned over the years by those in the program. ("Group Death" is how it is often referred to.) The only other co-op model I am aware of is Health Partners, started in Minnesota.

    Does anyone actually have experience with that system?

    I would love to hear more before we get stuck with an unknowable, untested plan that is so far from the kind of public option most people want.

    Parent

    What the "co-op" (none / 0) (#63)
    by KeysDan on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 03:18:52 PM EST
    option really is certainly needs  definition.  With my real estate-related attempt at humor, I was trying to illustrate the moving target ("public option", co-op, and even "exchanges").  I heard it said that the co-op will be the same as the public option under a more politically palatable name.  It is hard to know the reality, however, since we really do not know what the "public option" was or is,  and who would be eligible for it and how it would play into the mix--if it is included.  We do know that the reimbursement for the public option set forth by the Waxman compromise has been decoupled from Medicare rates, so as not to give it a leg up on the more expensive private insurance plans.  

    Parent
    When I was reading the new (none / 0) (#73)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:27:48 PM EST
    Kip Sullivan post up at pnhp.org, it occurred to me that he's from Minnesota, and on the steering committee for the Minnesota chapter of PNHP.  In his latest post, Sullivan says:

    I first heard the "political feasibility" argument from members of a Minnesota health care reform commission in the spring and summer of 1990 when the coalition for which I was working, the Health Care Campaign of Minnesota, started visiting commission members to drum up support for single-payer legislation. I remember very clearly hearing the political feasibility argument on a hot summer day in 1990 in the office of Senator Linda Berglin, a commission member who also chaired the Senate health committee. Berglin, who was and still is from the safest Democratic-Farmer-Labor district in Minnesota, said she wouldn't support single-payer because "we can't beat the insurance industry" (or words almost exactly like those). A year later she was claiming that legislation that relied on HMOs to contain cost would have a much greater chance of passing in Minnesota and that's what she was going to focus on.

    Over the years 1992 through 1994, Minnesota's legislature did in fact pass a series of bills (collectively referred to as "MinnesotaCare") that were supposed to achieve substantial cost containment by encouraging faster enrollment in HMOs, and thus establish universal health insurance by July 1, 1997. Of course, it all fell apart, beginning in 1995. Minnesota is no closer to universal health insurance today than it was in 1990 when I was first advised by my betters about how politically infeasible single-payer is and how politically feasible the HMO approach would be.

     You might try e-mailing the Minnesota chapter at pnhpminnesota@gmail.com; I have a feeling they may be able to give you all kinds of info on the Minnesota co-op.

    Parent

    This was such a terrible address, (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:15:20 AM EST
    I hardly know where to start.

    Maybe a good place to be is with this:

    "A key pillar of a new foundation is health insurance reform."

    I didn't do a count, but did he even mention the CARE aspect of reform nearly as often as he coupled "health" with "insurance?"  I mean, even in the obvious place, where he could have said that the reform would put people in charge of their own health care, he said it would put people in charge of their health insurance.

    He mentions the promises of providers to bring down costs, and make drugs more affordable; these are things industry providers could have been doing all along, but they haven't been.  Why would they make that promise now?  What are they getting, what have they been promised that Obama fails to mention?

    Invoking the AMA - the organization that opposed Meicare - and making it sound like virtually every doctor and nurse in the country is a member, and that health professionals are nearly universally behind this particular effort is manipulative and misleading.  It just is not so.

    Notice, when he gets there, that he doesn't mention that there will be no cuts to Medicare.  I won't be the only one who notices that.

    He still does not tell people what their options are if they have health insurance, through an employer, and don't like it.  Obama says people will be in charge of their own health insurance, but does that mean that they will be able to opt out of an employer-based plan for something better, and less expensive?

    He never discussed how it would be paid for.

    He says insurance companies will not be able to deny people for pre-existing conditions, but did not explain whether acceptance would come with an affordable price tag. The companies won't be able to drop people when they get sick, but will they be able to raise their premiums?  Obama didn't say.

    Not one word about "the public option."

    Not one word about when reform will be implemented, but saying that we will be "getting it done by the end of this year" is going to make a lot of people think it will start in 2010.  The news that it won't begin until over three years from now is going to make a lot of people feel bamboozled, I think.

    The really misleading part of the address concerned Obama's claims that this particular reform effort will be the antithesis of the status quo, in terms of cost and the effect on the economy and in the health of the people affected.  For sure, insurance companies will be getting millions more people to collect premiums from, but Obama is perpetuating the myth that having insurance means you have CARE.  It doesn't: too many people NOW have insurance, but cannot take advantage of it because they still cannot afford the co-pays and deductibles associated with getting care.

    I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that Obama made no secret of the fact that we are no longer talking about putting people in charge of their CARE, but in charge of their insurance; will anyone who has had to deal with insurance companies really believe that we are going to be in charge?  

    This is not leadership; it's failureship.


    Anne (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:27:10 AM EST
    as someone who's worked in the insurance industry I can answer some of your questions.

    You are never goign to get the same insurance cheaper than you get it through your employer due to "group pricing" or volume pricing.

    I'm sure that in the bill is the requirement that insurance companies drop the preexisiting condition requirement. However, you can bet your bottom dollar that people will be charged out the ying yang if they do have a preexisting condition therefore really doing nothing to solve the problem unless the person can afford several thousand dollar a month insurance premiums. And yes, the insurance companies will be able to raise premiums.

    From everything I've been reading about "obamacare" it's pretty much little more than a bailout for the insurance companies. Instead of letting them put themselves out of business, the Obama administration is going to prop them up for a while longer.

    Parent

    Way back when there was still talk (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:40:20 AM EST
    about a "robust public option," it was being structured to preclude those who had employer-based insurance from dropping it in favor of enrolling in a less expensive public plan.

    Now that it appears the public option is morphing into co-ops and exchanges, I think there will still be a "group" element, which could make it less expensive, but Obama is not being honest in explaining that if you have employer-based insurance, you may be stuck with it, unless your employer chooses to drop the plan, or you change jobs and are fortunate enough to land with a company that still provides a group plan and it is better than the one you had before.

    I'm still trying to understand the innovativeness of sticking with an employer-based model that handcuffs people to their jobs; if Obama is looking to turn the status quo on its head, insisting on this model isn't going to help do it.

    But, he isn't really interested in abandoning the status quo, so it's a moot point.

    Parent

    And (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:30:46 AM EST
    but Obama is perpetuating the myth that having insurance means you have CARE.  It doesn't: too many people NOW have insurance, but cannot take advantage of it because they still cannot afford the co-pays and deductibles associated with getting care.

    ...not to mention that the insurance companies can still deny you coverage, still do things like delay coverage until the insuree dies.  As far as I know the plan does nothing to address "death by spreadsheet".

    Parent

    The insurence lobby (none / 0) (#18)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:44:47 AM EST
    ponyed up all that money into a few prominent frontrunners campaign coffers for a reason, and it wasnt because they were posessed by a sudden, overwhelming, altruistic urge.

    People who think we'd be seeing something along the lines of a more enlightened, just approach to policy if any of the other nominees were in Obama's place are seriously deluded, IMO.

    Parent

    So we should (none / 0) (#24)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:54:34 AM EST
    just give up on expecting our leaders to actually lead? Obama's leadership vacuum on this issue is the best we can do?

    I don't think so.

    Parent

    Yeah, I'm going to have to say hell no to (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by masslib on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:52:54 AM EST
    National RomneyCare.  The Party of Truman, FDR and LBJ are utterly humiliating themselves with their efforts to keep the health finance market healthy and convince us they are taking on the "villains" at the same time.

    I'd just like the Democrats to tell me when I'll get my Medicare card in the mail and how much they want in taxes, so you know, I can actually have basic health care like my counterparts in every other industrialized nation.

    Or, (none / 0) (#65)
    by bocajeff on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 04:48:15 PM EST
    you can just be responsible for you and your family...unless you are indigent or disabled.

    Parent
    because there is only way path to follow (none / 0) (#68)
    by of1000Kings on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 05:13:40 PM EST
    in America...

    and anyone who wants to make money can do it, lol...

    Parent

    Not a reassuring address (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:55:30 AM EST
    I can't quite put my finger on what was wrong, but his tone sounded exasperated as he rattled off the same points that obviously have not been convincing to those who object to the plan. And he didn't address things people are concerned about. He needs to say:

    1.  Reigning in costs will not result in a reduction of health care benefits to seniors.

    2.  It will not result in the Government deciding what diagnostic tests or treatment procedures a person can have. It will not prevent someone from getting a second or third opinion.

    3. Providing health insurance to everyone and eliminating denial of coverage or overcharging those with pre-existing conditions will not result in higher premiums or reduced benefits for the healthy.

    4. It will not allow health insurance companies to revise their plans after the law passes so that people get less coverage for the same amount of premiums they are paying now.

    And if the proposed reform bill does not mean the above four things are true, he needs to admit that and explain why it's still a better plan than what we have now.

    The problem is he has never explained (none / 0) (#55)
    by Cards In 4 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 01:57:58 PM EST
    how to accomplish these goals. He has always wanted goals that no one can object like keeping your current insurance if you are happy with it.

    He has never explained how bending the cost curve requires another 100 billion in taxes each year.  He only expounds on the benefits of reform as if it only means choosing between two pills that do the same thing and all we have to do is choose the cheaper one.  Having spent 20 years in HR and employee benefits I know it's not that easy.

    I always had the feeling during the primaries that Obama only cared about health care reform as a chance to differentiate himself from HRC and her plan.  If her plan did not require mandatory insurance he would have proposed a plan that did.  

    Now he's stuck defending a 1,000 page bill he didn't write and the people that wrote it have trouble selling.

    Parent

    Totally agree (none / 0) (#70)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 06:55:40 PM EST
    plus the governmental leaders need to set the example and have the exact same system they want to give us.

    Parent
    "Drug companies have agreed (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:56:00 AM EST
    to make prescription drugs more affordable for seniors."

    If that isn't telling, I don't know what is.  

    Are seniors the only citizens needing drug costs lowered?

    Drug companies have agreed.  Yes.  They cut a deal with the White House.  The insurance companies didn't, so we'll get insurance reform...reform that will only give them more clients to screw over and bigger profits to hand out bonuses and campaign funds.

    This is criminal.

    Not that it's any surprise after the primary battles re healthcare.  If you didn't see this coming, you weren't paying attention.

    If what I have read is correct, (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by MO Blue on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:14:12 PM EST
    the deal that the drug companies have agreed upon applies only to those Seniors who have dual coverage of Medicare and Medicare. The negotiated prices will not apply to Seniors who are only covered through Medicare.

    Parent
    Oh. Great. Well....there ya go. (none / 0) (#45)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:15:42 PM EST
    He needs to reassure American's (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 02:23:00 PM EST
    There were two points I hoped to hear Obama address.

    1. Medicare. He needs to reassure American's that it isn't going to be trashed. (Republican's have wanted to do this since the beginning). Aren't seniors still the largest voting block?

    2. That employer based health care isn't going to be taxed as income. There are millions of families that are just getting by with the economy the way it is. Taxing benefits could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. How many more uninsured will this create? People will be forced to opt out of their insurance because they just can't afford it.


    Here's the handout (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 02:46:30 PM EST
    I got at the Denver Pelosi presser Thursday outlining the plan and titled, "What's In It For You"

    It doesn't address so many concerns, including the ones I put above here.

    Thanks (none / 0) (#61)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 02:53:40 PM EST
    I agree this has a ton of gray area!

    Parent
    One thing addy (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by cal1942 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 04:36:15 PM EST
    among many others is that for the last 30 plus years there's been a constant drumbeat from the right fomenting mistrust of government.

    Otherwise rational individuals can be easily stampeded into panic by agitators on the right.

    Weak leadership in the White House hasn't helped.  An opportunity to spell out a clear, simple, easy to understand, efficatious health care plan was declined at the outset allowing the right to dictate the terms of "debate."

    A clear effective plan laid out at the start would have rendered the right ineffective and perhaps hesitant to launch much resistance.

    They've been handed an opening and now they believe they can kill two birds with one stone, wrest power from the Democrats and kill reform.

    The foolish attempt to bring them into the process revealed a weakness they could pounce upon.

    Cal, I completely agree with everything (none / 0) (#69)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 06:06:18 PM EST
    you've said. However, I believe the lack of leadership happened, not by accident, but by design; same for the ensuing chaos, confusion, and panic.

    All of which will lead to non-reform, or an even more labyrinthian system which cuts an even sweeter deal for private insurers. I believe the "leadership" anticipated and pre-ordained that outcome from the outset.

    Parent

    i hope he enjoys being president (2.00 / 0) (#46)
    by The Last Whimzy on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:25:47 PM EST
    as much as he enjoys campaigning.

    I hope he enjoys his first term (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 02:17:57 PM EST
    Not inspiring a lot of confidence with this address. On the bright side, I am sure his ex-president poll numbers will be excellent and their will be many small donors to the library.

    Parent
    Expansive Issue (2.00 / 0) (#75)
    by samsguy18 on Sun Aug 09, 2009 at 06:54:49 AM EST
    Obama misleads the country when he continues to manipulate the facts. There are five plans on the table being debated. Now the talking points are all about insurance reform.The necessary public option and healthcare reform is being buried under the guise of a lot of verbal diarrhea.
    The continuing efforts by the administration to ignore the importance of Tort Reform is irresponsible.It shows they are disengenuous about healthcare reform. Without Tort reform,regulation and cost controls whatever they try to ram through will be a disaster.It took the Canadians ten years to evolve!!!.

    Few changes (none / 0) (#15)
    by wilco on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:35:43 AM EST
    In the end we will likely get some sort of coverage for the uninsured, mandatory coverage for pre-existing conditions and some other changes.  This will likely never amount to a total overhaul of healthcare.  By the way, Obama is now using the term 'health insurance reform' and not healthcare reform'.  This shows a major shift in his strategy to get something through.

    move to the center (none / 0) (#21)
    by wilco on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:52:49 AM EST
    Obama will move to the center on healthcare just to get something passed.  Also to bring up the polls in his favor.  After all he is a politician - c'mon people, objectivity.

    The problem (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:20:18 AM EST
    is that what he is going to pass is worse probably worse than nothing at all.

    Parent
    He always was in the center. (none / 0) (#71)
    by sallywally on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 06:58:59 PM EST
    That was abundantly clear during the primaries.

    Parent
    16% of the economy (none / 0) (#25)
    by wilco on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:57:03 AM EST
    jondee:  correct.  I think our expectations were too grandiose.  The healthcare industry is like 16% of the economy.  To over night change that to single-payer will almost be impossible.

    Yeah, somehow LBJ managed to enroll our elderly (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by masslib on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:05:30 AM EST
    onto Medicare in ll months but yeah, "impossible".  Here's an idea, do it slowly.  Start with the uninsured, and children.  Or, those 55-65. There are many ways to do this.  Forcing more people into the private health insurance finance market isn't one of them.  When they say 16% do they mean the insurance finance market, or also medical devices, pharmaceuticals, doctors, nurses, hospitals, etc.?  Anyone know?

    Parent
    16% of the economy! (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by jmacWA on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:15:06 AM EST
    But can you point me to where their "Value Add" is?  I do not see it.

    Parent
    I love that 16% of the economy statistic (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 02:15:15 PM EST
    If price of insurance and health care wasn't through the roof, they would not be 16% of the economy. Now they say we can't reign in their prices  because they are 16% of the economy.

    Too big to regulate.

    Parent

    "We are reaching a broad consensus..." (none / 0) (#31)
    by Dadler on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:13:44 AM EST
    Yes, the narrow group you have assembled has come to the consensus that broad reform would be bad.

    16% (none / 0) (#33)
    by wilco on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:16:38 AM EST
    I presume the 16% is everything from hospital sheets to plastice surgery...and all inbetween.  Not sure, just a guess.

    Keep comments on topic (none / 0) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:21:37 AM EST
    When your comments have been deleted, do not repost them or discuss the same subject matter.

    Thank you very much for abiding by the rules of the site.

    Disappointing (none / 0) (#37)
    by brodie on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:31:57 AM EST
    Saturday message.  I detected more of a small-bore flavor to his proposed change than major reform, and the careful shift in framing -- health insurance reform -- seems to suggest this admin is going to settle for a few slices of modest reform at the margins.

    As politically well-connected liberal Bob Shrum signaled the other day with his unhesitating embrace of the co-op compromise, the Obama admin appears to be willing to settle just for something right now.  If so, that would be quite a disappointing outcome for a 60 Dem Congress and alleged anti-incrementalist president.

    The rather complicated "reconciliation" alternative, requiring only a bare majority, also seems less likely today, if one is to believe former cong'l aide Lawr O'Donnell as he backed Sen Conrad's skeptical view.  Apparently only small pieces of the overall reform package could go through by this method, and beyond that would still need 60 votes to overcome opposition on a given aspect of the bill.  

    Depressing to hear, if this is in fact an accurate assessment of the process.

    I think it has been reduced to (none / 0) (#58)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 02:19:26 PM EST
    "consumer protection". If it had started out there, with promise of major reform down the road, it would have been a better tactic.

    Parent
    Check Out This Right Wing Nut... (none / 0) (#49)
    by kevsters on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:49:25 PM EST
    Here is Ann Coulter claiming that only 1% of Americans dislike their health care.

    Dude, she must be allergic to the truth.

    Here is the clip.

    http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2440

    I've been working all day (none / 0) (#72)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 09:21:24 PM EST
    on preparing for reflooring.  Whew....I love new floors but getting there is a workout.  I wanted to catch whatever was going on with the health care debate though and I am surprised by some of the comments about this address.  Okay, he B.S.ed us somewhat on the economy. He has hit on every single one of our blinding fears where our son is concerned though on health care.  Where is Josh going to go once he is an adult?  He has a pre-existing condition....hell, he was conceived with it and that's as pre-existing as you can get :)  And there is no way this kid is going to sit at home for the rest of his life on SSDI...he'll go nuts, he already leads his class in his mathematic skills as of last year.  And then yearly and lifetime caps frighten us to death after that.  When he is grown his spine will be fused.  Any accident involving Joshua can mean something completely different than it would to the rest of us.  His feet will always ache, when he begins to age they will hurt....he's going to need some help.  America is still too afraid to go single payer at this time.  We've been told too many horror stories.  The insurance companies have done everything in their power to stay in play, but if they are in play they have to play by new rules.  It seems obvious to me that if they have to be accountable to provide the coverage they charge us all for the next hit will be on all these baloney denials.  Don't tear my mirrors off but I'm okay with this address.