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Casting the First Stone

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone - Jesus Christ

Via Steve Benen, Bruce Bartlett writes:

I believe that political parties should do penance for their mistakes and just losing power is not enough. . . . One reason this isn't happening is because the media don't treat Republicans as if they are discredited. . . . Just look at the silly issue of death panels. The media should have laughed it out the window, ridiculed it or at least ignored it once it was determined that there was no basis to the charge. Instead, those making the most outlandish charges are treated with deference and respect . . .

(Emphasis supplied.) There is a reason the Media does that. The Media needs to do penance for its mistakes too. As do many Democrats. Start with Max Baucus. Then follow with Ben Nelson. Bush acolytes both in the early part of the decade. And the new progressive lion Lawrence O'Donnell, who worked for Moynihan when he was playing Max Baucus in 1993-4. But it goes further back than that. Bob Somerby catches Lehrer, Shields and Brooks in the act again . . .

LEHRER (8/14/09): OK, you mentioned the word, the name “Clinton.” How about Secretary of State Clinton? What do you think about her trip to Africa and that little outburst about her husband?

MARK SHIELDS: Well, I mean, I thought it was an absolutely legitimate outburst. I really—I thought it was an important trip.

LEHRER: We've got to refresh people's memories.

SHIELDS: Yes.

LEHRER: Somebody said, “What does your—what does President Clinton think about something?” And she said—

SHIELDS: She said, "I'm the secretary of state. I don't channel my husband." You know, you want to know—basically, “You want to know what he thinks, ask him yourself.”

LEHRER: Twitter him!

SHIELDS: Yes, ask him yourself, pal! And he happened to be—there might have been a little resentment, because at that moment, I think he was celebrating his birthday prematurely in Las Vegas at a place that has steaks for $240, $240 steak. I mean, you've got to look at that.

LEHRER: I can't even imagine.

SHIELDS: No. Can't imagine. Vegetables extra!

(Emphasis supplied.) I guess Lehrer and Shields were too busy dreaming of eating at Applebee's with Brooks to actually consider the "very important" issues touched upon by the Secretary of State's trip to Africa. Too busy cracking lame jokes about Bill Clinton.

And this is PBS. Imagine the rest. Penance? From these people? Don't hold your breath.

Speaking for me only

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  • Display: Sort:
    The Republicans lost an election. (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by lentinel on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 06:56:08 AM EST
    This does not mean that their policies are no longer being pursued by the victors.

    If the administration in power were to behave significantly differently than the former one, and received public support, then it would be easy to say that the Republicans have been discredited.
    But as long as the Dems continue to genuflect in the direction of Reagan and BushCo policies, it doesn't even seem as if the Dems think that Republican policies have been discredited. They act as if the only difference is that they are the ones carrying out and profiting by these same policies.

    So why should the media behave differently?
    They haven't been discredited either.
    The terrible people who helped run us into Iraq are still on the air.

    But (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 07:03:37 AM EST
    BTD how do you make the media do pennance when you spent the last year lauding their like of Obama?

    Acknowledging a fact is not lauding it (5.00 / 7) (#5)
    by BernieO on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 08:03:01 AM EST
    BTD never praised the media for preferring Obama, he just accepted it as reality and factored it in to his judgment about which candidate had the best chance of winning.

    I thought - and still think - that Hillary was by far the most prepared, I know that she would never be getting the favorable press that Obama still receives. Even now he is personally given a pass even when his policies are being criticized. That really does make a difference.

    I have to say that the fact that David Brooks defended Clinton's response to the questioner shows that the media has made a little progress on their CDS but they still can't except that a hillbilly like Bill could be more successful than they are.

    Parent

    Oh Gawd! (1.00 / 1) (#29)
    by ChiTownMike on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:11:14 AM EST
    Clinton could not have won against McCain or any of the other inferior GOP candidates during a time of 'Throw the bums out' because of the press?

    PLEEASE!

    When BTD picked and supported Obama because of the press I felt that was the silliest reason I ever saw for choosing a candidate. I mean here we have a guy who like to talk about ISSUES  being the important thing and he chooses someone because the press that he loves to hate and doesn't trust  likes Obama? Hell that should have been a big red flag right there if he followed his own beliefs. But yet he went with the choice of the press that he doesn't trust! If that doesn't make your head spin.


    Parent

    Lying again (none / 0) (#37)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:43:15 AM EST
    you are suspended for the day.

    Do not comment anymore in my threads today.

    Parent

    Thaks for that (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 08:32:54 AM EST
    Accepting something as reality (none / 0) (#35)
    by The Last Whimzy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:37:35 AM EST
    is not really lauding but also not really a protest against either.


    Parent
    As I understand this (none / 0) (#64)
    by The Last Whimzy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:56:58 AM EST
    speaking out against the media love for a candidate -- or rather the media hate for the other candidate -- but still supporting that candidate because of the media.  an extremely practical choice that I can totally relate to.

    I did want to provide an analogous situation.

    Did anyone ever write passionately and consistently speaking out against racism but then supported the white candidate for electability reasons?

     

    Parent

    Manipulation Masters (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by mmc9431 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 07:58:40 AM EST
    After years of belittling the media as a vast liberal conspiracy, the right wing has mastered the art of manipulation. They hide behind the banners of God and country and they all march in step. They spout their little catch phrases such as "death panels" and the media jumps on them.

    Democrat's, on the other hand, have a hard time with the message because they can't agree on what the message should be.

    And (none / 0) (#8)
    by lentinel on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 08:21:39 AM EST
    when the Dems do sign on to some "message", it is too often identical to Bush.

    Imo, we will not be able to move on until we end the wars.
    Until then, Washington will continue to suppress us, continue to behave in a fashion that is un-American, under the cloak of protecting us from the ever-present/ever-shifting enemy.
    Pure Orwell.

    Parent

    When did PBS go on NPR? (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 07:59:31 AM EST
    My memory of Sheilds and Gergen in the late 80's and early 90's is that it was a relatively short, but intelligent discussion of the weeks poltical news.

    Is my memory correct, or was it just like it is today?

    They never gave Bill a break (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by BernieO on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 08:04:09 AM EST
    even in the early 90's. Before that, I didn't watch them.

    Parent
    My mistake (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 08:32:16 AM EST
    PBS.

    Parent
    Ah the good old days.... (none / 0) (#50)
    by coigue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:09:50 AM EST
    I do tune in to see Gergen on CNN, but sometimes I still can't stand it.

    Parent
    That may have been true but (none / 0) (#54)
    by brodie on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:21:17 AM EST
    only in a very narrow sense of "discussion."  

    Because what I recall of that period (roughly the last time I had the SnoozeHour on my teevee radar), they delivered up a range of political views and attitudes from the center-right all the way over to the center-left.

    Beltway CW in other words.

    But no question Gergen would be preferable to Brooks today.

    Shields long ago reached his Sell By date.

    Ditto for SnoozeHour's droning host Jim Lehrer.

    But they are right for the post-70s PBS, which for years now has sought not to make the DC political/social establishment uncomfortable.

    Parent

    Shields reached his "sell-by" date? (none / 0) (#55)
    by coigue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:22:40 AM EST
    Should we call the death panels?

    Parent
    Question (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by mmc9431 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 08:17:57 AM EST
    Do the networks still have the policy that there should be two conservatives for every one liberal on the show? Or was that just a temporary policy after 9-11?

    By implementing such as policy in the first place shows just how intimidated the network executives are by the right.

    How does one help the media discover (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:27:10 AM EST
    their need for penance?  How many more newspapers need to be shut down before they get it?  It isn't just that the internet took the place of newsprint, because the papers should have been able to simply go online then.  They've served up porridge all three meals for so long, while the nation suffered for it, that when actual writing about actual issues found a way to reach the starving masses they were finished.  I suppose in time these guys will get flushed too if they can't catch up to what really matters in the world.  It's disgusting though.  If I have to listen to one more jerk or idiot only able to focus on Clinton gettng a little riled up being asked a sexist question in a nation currently raping its women at will and slicing off their genetalia with broken glass....grrrrrr

    Yeah (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:39:59 AM EST
    You'd think that the sensational nature of the atrocities against women there would attract our tabloid taste media more. But no, not so much.

    And I don't think it's primarily because these are crimes against women. Maybe it's because they are dark skinned women. I think it reflects the American news media's (and Americans, in general?) indifference to a place that is so often reported on as if the continent is a country.

    Now if these things were happening in some country in Europe...

    I recall hearing so much more about similar atrocities against Bosnian women...

    As to the increasing demise of more and more newspapers: I wish I could believe that was hurting the ones responsible for their decline and death. I'm pretty sure the ones who tried to turn the newspapers into cash cows milked for profits rather than the community resources they used to be have moved on to sack their next industry.

    Parent

    Actually (none / 0) (#31)
    by ChiTownMike on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:19:55 AM EST
    BTD left out the part of the Shields/Brooks segment that did talk about the some important parts of Clinton's trip:

    MARK SHIELDS:
    ...
    But, listen, Africa is crucial. I mean, we're in a fierce competition there for influence and for engagement with China, with Russia, who've already been there and are there regularly, with India. And I thought message she delivered, whatever she -- wherever she goes, she brings not simply the United States. She brings cameras. She brings microphones.

    ...

    DAVID BROOKS:
    ...
    As for Africa, one of the nice -- the good news stories about Africa is that there has been institutional change in country after country. Now, we've had our problems with South Africa and other countries -- Sudan, obviously -- but there has been institutional improvement in that continent on many, many governments.

    And I think part of the achievement of the Bush administration, frankly, was the Millennium Challenge Accounts, which tied aid to that institutional reform, and she's building on that, I think, the Obama administration, as well.

    So if you add those parts in the segment was not fully what it is trying to be depicted as.

    Parent

    Funny (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:41:22 AM EST
    how the whole women in Africa thing did not even make into the substance of their remarks and you think they covered it well.

    About what I expect from you though.

    Parent

    Lowest Common Denominator (none / 0) (#46)
    by ruffian on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:06:06 AM EST
    The press are masters at finding it. Piling on Hilary Clinton is a no-brainer for them.  They get little criticism for that, since even the liberals in the media (Jon Stewart, meet me a camaera 3)  pile on.

    Parent
    the LCD watches NewsHour? (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by coigue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:07:21 AM EST
    Puh-lease. I have a PhD and I still fall asleep to NewsHour sometimes.

    Parent
    Sorry, was not clear (none / 0) (#51)
    by ruffian on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:10:42 AM EST
    I didn't mean their audience, but the topics they agree to discuss. The panel discussions require everyone on the panel to have some level of knowledge. I wish I could say they use the highest common denominator, but it does not often seem to be the case.

    Parent
    I still don't get it. (none / 0) (#53)
    by coigue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:20:07 AM EST
    If their audience is highly interested in the rest of the program, why would the pundits cater to an audience that does not watch NewsHour?

    Remember, Shields and Brooks are on for a few minutes once a week. Sometimes they are quite good, but other times, not.

    Parent

    I'm not so sure (none / 0) (#83)
    by cal1942 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 07:17:46 PM EST
    that the NewsHour audience isn't interested in the tripe.

    Parent
    I do not attribute the demise of (none / 0) (#72)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:27:13 PM EST
    newspapers to lack of intelligent reporting.  Majority of people in US state they never read a newspaper.  Hard to stay in business.  

    Parent
    I'm tempted to ask (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:41:46 AM EST
    how many hail healthcares David Brooks should say.

    Pffft (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:47:19 AM EST
    The antichrist never gets into heaven andgarden.  As usual, you just aren't getting this antichrist thing :)

    Parent
    As one lapsed Jew chastising another (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:49:32 AM EST
    It's something I really don't think about much!

    Parent
    Unknowingly lapsed (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:03:30 AM EST
    I'm innocent

    Parent
    I mean me and David Brooks (none / 0) (#30)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:16:18 AM EST
    On the rare occasions when I (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:56:44 AM EST
    tune in to see Lehrer, Shields and Brooks, I come away convinced that "PBS" must stand for "Pretty Bad Sh!t" when it comes to their political analysis.

    I think there is absolutley a case to be made that this Democratic administration, and this Democratic Congress have not taken advantage of their ability to take several giant steps to the left and make an absolute and principled distinction between themselves and the Republicans.  A relentless campaign of bipartisanship, and in come cases, outright acceptance and furtherance of Bush policies, has given the media little reason to think the policies of the Republicans have been rejected and discredited.

    On the other hand, it's possible that the media is so controlled by their corporate masters, who cannot and will not reject GOP BS, that we may never see or be able to count on any significant effort by the media to tell the truth.

    Which leads me to wonder why the hell all this bipartisanship cr@p is even necessary, unless the president himself believes that the policies that result are best.

    I'm not sure there is (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:06:54 AM EST
    a panel show that's worth watching.  Most of them end up as shout fests - or talking about trivia like where Bill Clinton celebrated his birthday.  

    I have been to panel discussions that have been worth while - they usually involve a moderator or questions from the audience.  

    A panel should have two rules:
    Answer the question that was asked, as directly as possible.
    Do not interrupt others.

    If I want to see someone yuck it up over the latest news, I'll check out Colbert or Stewart.

    Parent

    Bill Moyers' show "The Media's (5.00 / 5) (#39)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:50:13 AM EST
    Distortion of the Health Care Reform Narrative" IMO was pretty good.

    KATHLEEN HALL JAMIESON: And potentially the press then picks that up, polls, finds that sympathy, creates a structure that suggests that health care reform initiatives are losing support. Now polls have driven press coverage which says "Obama on the defensive. Obama struggling to explain. Obama trying," when, in fact, the dynamic under that has been created by a news structure that decided to cover this in a certain way, to do polling in a certain way. And those two things played into the process to make it more difficult for the discussion to actually happen about the substance of what's going on.

    DREW ALTMAN: So it's exactly right. So we have the protests, the media coverage, especially the 24-hour news cycle, follows the protests and the town meetings. Then the polls poll about the media coverage of the protests. And we create almost an alternative reality about what is occurring out there.
    C&L



    Parent
    Sure (1.00 / 1) (#41)
    by jbindc on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:53:27 AM EST
    That's what happens all the time.  For the last two years, the Obama crowd used it to their advantage - for example, they would overstate crowd sizes at Obama events, so in the next state where he had an event, it had to be "bigger and better!"  That's how we got the distorted 200,000 people at a rally in Germany, when it was really a concert with about 20,000.

    Except now, the administration has been slow to react when the tactic is used against them.

    Parent

    Germany? Really? (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:04:39 AM EST
    The primaries are over.

    They really are.

    Parent

    Yes, I know (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by jbindc on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:07:51 AM EST
    Pointing out that the tactics being used against Obama now are the same tactics he used back then, however, are "not over". It's just ironic that the administration didn't recognize the technique when they were the masters of it and are now getting clobbered with it.

    And for the record, the Germany trip was after the primaries.

    Parent

    Um I want to see where you (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:10:57 AM EST
    got 20,000 as a more likely number.

    Parent
    Comes up real quick in a Google search (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:32:26 AM EST
    I would note (none / 0) (#90)
    by CST on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 10:04:22 AM EST
    The German police still say it was 200,000, and stick by that estimate.  20,000 is really just a guess by someone who saw a few pictures.  Not to mention, it sure looks like a lot more than 20,000 to me.  All the German newspapers reported 200,000 and never changed it.  So did the BBC.  For what it's worth, so did some friends of mine who were there...  Really, anything else is just idle speculation by some people who don't really know what they're talking about.  That article is pretty unconvincing.  And frankly, throwing it up as something more is pretty rediculous.

    Parent
    Yes, I Know (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:56:19 AM EST
    that the event in Germany was after the primaries.

    But it was also much closer in time to the primaries than it is to today. Hence, my point.

    Parent

    Yes, but (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by jbindc on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:36:19 PM EST
    The primaries was not what was being talked about.  Obama's own tactics being (rather successfully) used against him was what I was talking about.

    Parent
    Try Moyers or Rose (none / 0) (#66)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:14:57 PM EST
    Charlie Rose often has first-rate panel-type discussions, no yelling and interrupting, no trivia.  (He leaves trivia for his fawning interviews of Hollywood types.)  These discussions are always from smack in the middle of Beltway conventional wisdom, but they are at least a pretty thoughtful treatment of Beltway conventional wisdom.

    Moyers steps outside that pretty frequently, though his choice of themes to focus on can sometimes be a bit quirky.

    Parent

    Money Rules (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by mmc9431 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:10:13 AM EST
    The network exec's look at Fox News and Limbaugh and all they see are dollar signs. They have absolutely zero interest in integrity. They just want a piece of that pie! If one network has a hit show, the other's will have a knockoff produced with a month.

    I'll be tripping over my long gray beard before I see any penance from these people. (That is unless they see dollar signs from the left)!

    NPR (as a proxy for PBS) (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by jerry on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:32:53 AM EST
    I don't watch PBS much, but using NPR as a proxy for them, I think the problem is three decades of inflated salaries leading to inflated heads and laziness.

    Why do NPR anchors earn $300,000 a year?  Precisely what is it that they do that adds that much value to the information given to the listener?  They earn $300,000 because that's what their counterparts in TV earn, not because of any value they bring.

    Could the $300,000 distort the anchor's view of issues facing most of America, say on health care, or on the housing bubble, or on tax policy?

    On NPR it's time to get rid of anyone earning over, say, $150,000.  Bring in fresh blood, and cheaper blood.  The folks earning more than $150,000 should have no problem whatsoever finding new jobs that pay that much money, since they are somehow worth it, and in return the audience will gain fresh perspectives and NPR will gain a new generation of experienced reporters.

    I'd suspect the same is true for PBS (though I don't watch them and don't know.)

    They need to return to their college days.

    Well, I'm surprised at some of (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by brodie on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:31:02 AM EST
    those salaries, if true, but I don't think it gets to the essence of the problem.

    Which is NPR's conservative-minded management and the way the network for a couple of decades now has sought to replace lost gov't funding with corporate and foundation money (usually right-leaning).  You aren't going to upset the status quo much with that kind of financial backing.

    Too bad ex-NPR head Frank Manckiewicz was dumped in the early 80s over those financial problems.  He was probably the last NPR president who was committed to the network's original mission of providing informative programming not usually heard on the comm'l airwaves.  

    Now of course we get considerable crossover on NPR with the reporters also working at other networks (Cokie at ABC, Liasson and Williams from Faux).  

    None of these people are going to rock the boat or deliver much other than the usual Villager blather.

    Parent

    They and PBS (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:17:50 PM EST
    have also be beaten up but good over the years by conservative politicians who have seriously threatened their funding.

    Parent
    Income is a factor (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by mmc9431 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:51:30 AM EST
    You may have a point regarding incomes. (I would include politician in it also). With their salary levels, they live in a circle that certainly isn't representative of the country as a whole. I think all of them should spend a weekend at their local regional mall. Then come back and tell me what America is today. I think they'd be amazed. We aren't this white, crispy cotton world that too many seem to think we are.

    To be fair... (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by coigue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:00:05 AM EST
    I am sure they covered the Africa trip in detail in the news section.

    You are decrying pundits acting like pundits. That is not the serious part of the show.

    I haven't been watching NewsHour much lately, but their Africa correspondent, Charlene Hunter-Gaul (sp?) is excellent, and they often play African stories that can be found no where else.

    No. (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by coigue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:06:28 AM EST
    If you think the "woman" issue is only a subset, you really don't understand how communities are structured, mended after conflict, or how they become cohesive and healthy. The role of women in this is huge, much larger than women's rights, strictly speaking.

    I was agreeing with you up until you pooh-poohed this issue. If this issue was solved, one can argue that almost all others would fall in line.

    That's been Hillary's point (4.50 / 2) (#70)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:18:56 PM EST
    for a long time now.  I think it's exactly right.

    Parent
    this was supposed to be a response (none / 0) (#58)
    by coigue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:25:54 AM EST
    to chi...

    Parent
    It's The Narrative (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by nycdem on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:23:33 AM EST
    Of course the MSM doesn't discredit the Republicans, they have a 29 year investment in the narrative that we are a Reagan country. We have to look at the actions of Democratic politicians and the 24 hour news cycle through this prism. In this narrative all Democrats are usurpers.

    The narrative is the narrative until it isn't.  Although we've elected a hugh number of Democrats, we have done nothing to change to the Reagan narrative.  This is why I believe the health care issue is a death match for the Republicans.  If they lose, the narrative changes.  

    One reason for our trouble as Democrats is that our marketing sucks.  And one reason that the marketing sucks is that there is a shifting line in the sand or no line in the sand.

    We, the Democratic party, should not be surprised that politicians act like politicians.  We don't make our politicians fear that we will punish them for not drawing that line in the sand.  They have more fear of a possible Reagan type backlash.

    As for the health care "debate," we are negotiating against ourselves.  There is no other side to negotiate with.  The Republicans vested interest is to see Obama and the Democrats fail.  They just dusted off the 1993 playbook expecting the same results.

    Proper citation style of Bible excerpt: (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:33:54 PM EST
    John 8:7.

    But then I discover Let He Who Is Without Sin is the title of an episode of Startrek:  Season 5: Episode 7.  

    the media chose Bush (4.25 / 4) (#12)
    by Bornagaindem on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:01:41 AM EST
    and it chose Obama for us. It doesn't matter what people really think - that is boring. Whatever the media decides to push that is what the outcome is. How can a normal citizen stand against the onslaught. Reporting on the details of healthcare is boring reporting on Michael jackson death for hours and days and weeks is where the real news is. That is the reality of our society and we will never get a decent president again- a person who is just truly competent. Because you have to have a life story, a schtick now  and real work or accomplishments are all besides the point, When you trade an incompetent, never did anything worthwhile, Bush for the same kind of man in Obama you shouldn't be surprised at what you get.

    OUt of curiosity- what makes a guy (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:19:04 AM EST
    who worked his way up from nothing to become President of the United States an "incompetent, who never did anything worthwhile" ?

    Parent
    For the record (3.50 / 4) (#22)
    by jbindc on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:45:56 AM EST
    He didn't "work his way up from nothing" - he came from a middle to upper middle class family and went to private schools.  

    Not like he was raised in the ghetto and was poor.

    Parent

    Good Point (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:21:18 AM EST
    I forgot how easy it is for an African-American from a single parent home, where the mother's on Welfare to reach the top in America, I mean look at all of the other cases besides Obama- I mean sure you can count the number of African-American Senators, Governors and Supreme Court Justices in the last 100 years on your hands and still have room to spare, but that's just because they've chosen to dominate the Business World, I mean the boards of Fortune 500 companies are like a National Conference of the NAACP.  

    Parent
    Sarcasm aside (4.00 / 3) (#38)
    by jbindc on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:47:27 AM EST
    Your point was that he came from nothing to become president.  I merely pointed out the fallacy of your statement in that he had a pretty comfortable childhood. His mother, as you well know, collected welfare while she was earning her Ph.D and he was in high school - at a "fancy prep school,"(his own words) because he was being raised by his middle class to upper class grandparents.

    If you want to talk about someone who "Came from nothing" then you have to be talking about Bill Clinton.

    Parent

    Some of those Talking Points (4.00 / 3) (#56)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:22:41 AM EST
    really stuck with a few. He was not raised in a single parent home on welfare. His grandparents lived a very nice life and introduced him to the first of many mentors who would lead him up the ladder. Rehashing the proven inaccuracies in those themes he used during the primary is a waste of time.

    He did come from almost nothing to be POTUS if you're referring to his resume.

    Parent

    Ouch. (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:24:03 PM EST
    Yes, well, I don't even have to look (3.66 / 3) (#77)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 01:09:04 PM EST
    and I'll guess sher was still passing out '1' and '2' ratings when I made that comment.

    Parent
    Perhaps (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 01:54:54 PM EST
    But between jbindc, Spamlet et al, the ones are coming faster than anything from sher. But you knew that, no?  

    Parent
    Prove that statement (none / 0) (#85)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:31:39 PM EST
    Duel at dawn! (none / 0) (#86)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:32:50 PM EST
    No, sure didn't (none / 0) (#87)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:33:46 PM EST
    and Dark Avenger is again accusing me of what other commenters have posted. Not the first time, and probably won't be the last.

    Parent
    No, Not Ghetto (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:21:33 AM EST
    But first African American president, a man who made the keynote speech at the Dem convention 5 years ago  and that was when most of us first heard of him.

    Not to mention first Hawaiian born president... :)

    Muslim dad...

    I still find myself marveling how 'normal' it seems now to have an AA president when I was pretty well convinced early on he would never win the primaries and strongly skeptical to the end that he would ever get elected--that some retained national bigotry would surprise us all.

    Not poor, not ghetto. But it's easy to forget--because he and his team made it look so natural--how huge a leap it took for him to become POTUS.

    Parent

    Natural because (none / 0) (#59)
    by The Last Whimzy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:26:55 AM EST
    Of media peference.  Some expertise on the part of the campaign, but the media ultimately decides this stuff.

    Which means it wasn't that much of a leap at all.

    A president who wasn't supported by the media during the election.

    Now THAT would be a leap.


    Parent

    Yeah, Right (none / 0) (#65)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:04:50 PM EST
    ...but the media ultimately decides this stuff.

    I guess that's why Bill Clinton was a one term president, felled by the media savagery around Lewinsky and impeachment.

    Parent

    Good point (none / 0) (#67)
    by The Last Whimzy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:16:41 PM EST
    Bill Clinton was the leap I just described.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#76)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:54:33 PM EST
    Clinton masterfully handled a hostile press corps and Obama masterfully handled an adoring one which could have turned into the rapacious snarling pack of hungry hyenas they truly are at any of several key moments during his campaign.

    Parent
    He didn't "handle" it; he rode it. (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Upstart Crow on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 04:25:00 PM EST
    If he handled it masterfully then, he would be handling it masterfully now. He's not.

    Parent
    A small quibble (none / 0) (#78)
    by The Last Whimzy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 01:27:28 PM EST
    I don't think you "handle" the media.  You become regarded as being so successful at your job, the people stop caring about what the press corps says about you.

    Parent
    Actually in the 1992 Election Clinton (none / 0) (#81)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 03:41:30 PM EST
    did have media support- they covered some scandal stuff but they primarily hit Bush I for being out of touch, its the same framing they used in 1996, and its what I think they'll do with Obama- criticize him but never actually choose to back his opponent.

    Parent
    Two Term (none / 0) (#69)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:18:22 PM EST
    1993-2001

    Parent
    Duh (none / 0) (#75)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:50:45 PM EST
    I guess I needed to more explicitly note my sarcasm there, Squeaky?

    I was responding to LW's point that the media ultimately decides who gets elected.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#79)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 01:53:04 PM EST
    Was quite surprised, missed the sarcasm.. sorry.

    Parent
    He Was Competent (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:29:12 AM EST
    enough to get elected.

    And against that other (former) media darling John McCain.

    Bush, BTW, wasn't even competent enough to do that (get elected) the first time around. He was competent enough to mount an aggressive campaign to steal the election. And he lucked out with a compliant SC.

    But you know that.

    Parent

    When was the last time we had a competent (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:35:17 AM EST
    President in your estimation- was it Nixon, LBJ? When?

    Parent
    Penance nonsense (none / 0) (#11)
    by koshembos on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:01:15 AM EST
    May be some religions believe in penance but there is no room for that in civil life. In politics you are voted in or out. In the older times, politicians took responsibilty and resigned when appropriate; those days are gone with the old style banks.

    Republicans are particularly immune from learning lessons because they are zealots and zealots never change.

    Piling garbage on the agenda is a way of life that became a virtue with the assassination of Clinton's character and politics. The zealots of the left and the right participated in that. (Mind you the American official left is a caricature of the real thing.)

    BTD, you yourself should be sent to the penalty box on piling up and dumping on people without facts. You claim that Rambo is guilty for Obama's idiotic health care politics. This is an invention; you have no facts to justify that. Furthermore, Obama's politics seem to fit his inherently stupid bipartisan pipe dream; Rambo is a much tougher guy who seems to drive a very hard bargain and not the banana squashed the Obama's health care approach appears to be.

    The media may be lost in juvenile drunken party, but they are not alone.

    Uh what? (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:19:29 AM EST
    Where do I make such a claim?

    Parent
    BTW (none / 0) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:44:42 AM EST
    Your fantasy about Rahmbo is interesting.

    Parent
    RIGHT?!?!?!! (none / 0) (#13)
    by JoeCHI on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:11:14 AM EST


    Oh Well (none / 0) (#62)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:51:26 AM EST
    Times change last time I had a teevee and McNeill Lehrer was on  they were nothing like comedy (not) team Milbank and Cillizza.

    I think it it time for Hillary to go on their show and set the record straight. The record being, for those who did not notice, is that Lehrer and Shields are not much more enlightened about sexism than those in the Congo.

    Wait (none / 0) (#89)
    by Samuel on Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 09:12:38 AM EST
    do you believe a jewish zombie saved man from his sins?