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The Silent Majority

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Obama Administration
Posted on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 07:18:00 AM EST
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President Barack Obama:

OUR nation is now engaged in a great debate about the future of health care in America. And over the past few weeks, much of the media attention has been focused on the loudest voices. What we haven’t heard are the voices of the millions upon millions of Americans who quietly struggle every day with a system that often works better for the health-insurance companies than it does for them.

I think this is an interesting choice for framing the debate. I would have gone another way. I would have invoked the 2008 election. Those millions and millions were not silent that day.

Elections have consequences. Or at least they do when Republicans win them.

Speaking for me only

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    Fixtit! (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by tokin librul on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 08:17:14 AM EST
    Elections have consequences. <strike>Or at least they do</strike> But only when Republicans win them.

    Sometimes it looks like (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by Edger on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 08:40:51 AM EST
    they won the 2008 election.

    Millions were not silent that day, but (5.00 / 7) (#5)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:04:29 AM EST
    if you remember from someone's video interviews, there were a lot of supporters who really had no idea and could not articulate what it was Obama stood for, or what his positions on the issues were; on health care, I really do not want people who don't have a clue getting behind someone just for the sake of getting behind them, without considering the consequences of what it is they are supporting.

    I think it's also fair to acknowledge that those who voted for someone on the basis of promises made in a campaign, are free to withdraw support on particular issues where the reality is not living up to the promise.

    There is plenty of opposition to Obama's path on health care - or should we say health insurance? - and it is not all coming from conservatives, fundamentalists and wingnuts; people are writing letters to the editor, are writing and faxing and calling and even visiting their representatives to express their views.  

    The voices are speaking, but the question is, is anyone listening?  Not hearing what you want to hear is not the same as silence.

    Anne, just stop (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:32:34 AM EST
    You're making my head hurt and I still can't get into the doctor for another ten days.  Yes,  I'm waiting for my appointment to finally get here so that I can get my migraine prescription refreshed.  Until then my head goes from inflamed to looking for an opportunity to inflame :)

    Parent
    I'm sorry, Tracy - (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:44:54 AM EST
    I've been there with migraines for years, and know how awful you feel.

    Guess it's a good thing you don't live in Canada, where they have all those terrible wait times for health care...

    I'm sure you're trying all the usual things in the meantime - caffeine, heat or cold, standing under a running shower (if it's allergy-triggered, the running water helps dissipate the spores/allergens), drinking lots and lots of liquid as dehydration can make the headache worse (especially if you are taking something with caffeine in it, as caffeine is dehydrating). Staying away from politics for a bit might help, too.  :-)

    Feel better.  

    Parent

    I'm caffeining hard (5.00 / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:56:13 AM EST
    Showering about twice a day....I don't know what is in the air right now.  It isn't the peanut harvest yet, but something has me in its grip and Zoe too.  Her eyes and nose were a mess yesterday.  We are still yanking patches of carpet out of the house but doing our best to keep the air clear.  We have the central air moving the air constantly and I have an allergen zapper in that system.  I have a bad allergy to the mold that grows on the jute of carpet.  We clean the carpets about four times a year but after awhile in the humid South you are just fighting a losing battle with carpet and molds so we gave up entirely.  Same mold grows on the roots of the peanuts too and wipes me out.  It is hard being a Junkie and staying away from politics for too long :)  I didn't even watch Obama's CO townhall.  And Sweet Jesus, and if I told you who my husband is going to be working for here pretty soon....I need some meds!

    Parent
    Faux hardwood flooring. (none / 0) (#17)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:11:19 AM EST
    We'd do the whole house tomorrow if we had the cash.  Easy to clean and durable and doesn't trap the dirt.  When I think about what the carpet looked like - yeugh!

    Parent
    We did some bedrooms still carpeted (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:09:09 AM EST
    in a plank style vinyl flooring.  It looks very nice now and is very durable...Home Depot.  Main area of house is going to be an IKEA floating laminate (in progress now) and natural slate around fireplace, entries, and since we are at it we might as well do the kitchen too.

    Parent
    If your 2-week wait (none / 0) (#24)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:45:58 AM EST
    is to see your neuro, go see your GP tomorrow.  They can prescribe meds.

    If you can't see your GP for 2 weeks, go to the ER.  It's wrong for you to have to suffer.

    Parent

    My two week wait is to see my GP :( (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:04:59 AM EST


    Parent
    If it were me (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:18:16 AM EST
    I'd call the GP and ask for a script while waiting, or I'd go to an urgent care facility or the ER.

    Just saying.

    And BTW, that is terrible service.

    Parent

    I haven't seen him for migraine for the past (none / 0) (#74)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 06:51:38 PM EST
    two years so whoever mans the phones told me that I have to be reevaluated....which means that I must be charged for an office visit before he can write that script.  At this point, I suppose I could do E.R. the next time it flares badly.  I've always gotten such a bad reaction though for going in with a migraine if I'm not barfing my guts out.  And it's always at least a three hour wait.

    Parent
    And this is the service I get under Tricare (none / 0) (#76)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 07:02:56 PM EST
    I can only see certain doctors.  This is the service you get in this area, I guess they have the market cornered and that's why I'm having such a hard time writing a Tricare diary about how terrific Tricare is.  Tricare is a single payer system, but is it really because I can't see whatever doctor I want?  I see doctors who did not graduate the top of any class or overly care about the state of humanity.

    Parent
    You must be visiting Canada or England (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:20:15 AM EST
    You can't be in the states. This is America where there is never any wait to see your doctor. We all know that ONLY countries with single payer national health care make people wait for treatment. This never, never happens under our overpriced insurance system. Fact are the facts and it has been firmly established that this is true. :)


    Parent
    I have a GP that normally has a 7-10 day wait (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:37:33 PM EST
    but who will always return calls and reissue med scripts.... Plus, she is a member of a clinic who is part of a Convenient Care group that I can go to if she can't reissue a script or if I can't get to her for any reason. Plus all records are available to all locations.

    Is this service available across the US? Probably more so than we think. But even if your GP MD is not part of a clinic group just about every 40,000 and above city has Convenient Care centers that you can use for treatment by doctors you don't know.

    So I think we are much closer to what goes on in Canada than you know.

    Where we fail is in the rural areas, and so does Canada. No one wants to live there.

    Where we excel is that we have all the bells and whistles..new technology...spread out much wider and serving a much smaller population base. That contributes greatly to high costs but it also gives us more options and much faster service.,

    When we finally get a single payer system, and sooner or later we will, that is what we must guard against.

    Parent

    I was being extremely sarcastic Jim (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 01:41:00 PM EST
    I'm being to seriously doubt that we will ever have a single payer system. It has been shot down for over 60 years. The current health insurance legislation will only IMO make the insurance industry richer and stronger. If we pass bad legislation now, it will only reinforce the meme that government should keep out of health care.

    Parent
    It would be nice if my fingers typed (none / 0) (#64)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 04:49:39 PM EST
    what my brain was thinking.

    That should read "I'm beginning to seriously doubt that we will ever have a single payer system."

    Parent

    By the way PPJ (none / 0) (#51)
    by cal1942 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 01:23:53 PM EST
    You might be interested in this regarding one of your heroes.

    And

    When we finally get a single payer system, and sooner or later we will

    I wish I could be as confident as you are that this will happen.

    Parent

    You know, MT (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by jbindc on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:49:28 AM EST
    Some studies show that one of the best cures for migraines is, ah, shall we say, a little lovin'.  

    Definitely better than politics at least!

    Parent

    When my neurologist explained that to me (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:00:32 AM EST
    I just couldn't believe that God is actually that much of a comedian :)  I have only been able to bring myself to apply that cure once.  And it did work, very well and no side effects that time :)

    Parent
    Best (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by jbindc on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:02:46 AM EST
    No insurance companies to deal with, it's free, and you can "take your medicine" as many times as you want without fear of overdosing!

    Parent
    Might try a supplement (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:16:55 AM EST
    "arginine" is a protein important in um...vascular dilation.  Won't hurt you, might help.  

    Not sure of the root cause of your migraines.  I assume you've already tried OTC antihistamines like Benadryl already - if you can take them with your other meds.

    Parent

    I have read some about (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:00:05 AM EST
    Arginine, but it was a long time ago, have never tried a supplement.  Is it related to Ergots in a way?

    Parent
    Did some google (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:10:08 AM EST
    It seems to help with asthma as well.  This could be a twofer for me if it improves what ails me.

    Parent
    Sold as a (none / 0) (#39)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:22:02 AM EST
    "male health supplement" because it's part of the vascular dilation mechanism.  As you read, there's a lot more to vascular dilation(/contraction) than male performance.  Heart, lungs, and brain all benefit from healthy blood flow.   It's quite complex, and I don't understand it all.  (If I did, I'd probably be doing medical research!)

    Parent
    How does a big dose of ibuprofen work for you? (none / 0) (#19)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:20:08 AM EST


    Parent
    If I don't have any Imitrex (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:54:35 AM EST
    usually a combo of an NSAID (Ibuprofen or naproxen) with some benadryl helps some.  I'm usually hanging on a sort of borderline edge though with that solution once I've got a good one having set in until I take some Imitrex.  I have some narcotic drugs on hand but they really don't work very well for me in resolving migraine.  Only good for knocking out if it gets real bad.  I don't know what kind of life I would have had prior to Imitrex.  Knocked out I suppose.

    Parent
    Magnesium (none / 0) (#35)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:14:30 AM EST
    helps too a little.  IV magnesium can be used as an abortive.  During a migraine (if I can't take my triptan because I have to drive), I'll take a couple of 500 mg magnesium 2 times per day, along with 3 Aleve and 2 Extra Strength Tylenol 3 x day.  I still thank G-d for evening when I can come home and take a Maxalt (triptan).

    If you try the magnesium, you might want to take some calcium with it to offset the potential, um, excessive regularity.

    The mechanism of migraine is simply different from the mechanism of Ibuprofen or Aleve action.  Painkillers and Benadryl help some because migraine pain creates some inflammatory responses and tension responses that can be affected by them.

    But the only way to abort the migraine is to hit the 5-HT receptors, which is what the triptans do.

    Get thee to a doctor.  Don't wait that 10 days to see the neuro.

    Parent

    Just think, MT, if you'd done your grocery (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by easilydistracted on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:51:45 AM EST
    shopping at Whole Foods all these years, you wouldn't even be suffering from migraines. Heh. BTW, I hope this caused a chuckle...sounds like you could really use one this morning

    Parent
    Hope you feel better soon (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:00:26 AM EST
    Headaches that last forever are a real b1tch. Even your hair seems to hurt.

    Parent
    Oh, my heart goes out to you! Is this appt w/ new (none / 0) (#33)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:13:03 AM EST
    doc? Or is there a relationship? Can't whomever wrote the existing script just renew, may with two weeks worth if that's all they can deal with?

    I had a doc whose office people wouldn't renew a prescription which must be taken continuously or there are bad side effects. I was called out of town, low on pills, asked for a refill. The office person said I had to come in for a visit or they could not refill the prescription.

    I explained the situation again; she was adamant. Now, this was for medication I'd been on for years; it's in my file why it's necessary. It was not something people could or would abuse. Sheesh.

    This office person either was in a very bad mood or she enjoyed imposing power.

    I suffered through the symptoms. But I never went back to that doctor.

    I still can't believe what her office personnel did.  I made an appt for when I was sure I would be back in state; still no good with this person. Grrrrrrr.

    Parent

    haven't seen him in awhile (none / 0) (#75)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 06:55:38 PM EST
    I've been pretty healthy.  Haven't been evaluated for migraine for two years I was told so I must be reevaluated before I can get a prescription.  Essentially I must be charged for something before a prescription can be written and the next available opportunity to charge me is the 24th.  That was two days earlier than the date I was first given and pleaded it was too long to wait.

    Parent
    I soooo agree with you on this (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by coigue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:11:58 AM EST
    Can anyone honestly say they did NOT know that Obama was going to tackle health care after being elected?

    The only hope is Rep. Weiner's Medicare for All (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:41:04 AM EST
    bill, coming to a vote on the House floor.

    Would Obama refuse to sign a single payer Medicare for All bill?

    Slight, slight hope, I know.

    I'm wondering (none / 0) (#50)
    by cal1942 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 01:10:25 PM EST
    At first I thought that Pelosi only agreed to bring it to the floor because she was sure it would lose.

    But now we learn that the House isn't buying into the corrupt deal that Obama made with big Pharma.

    Parent

    Ah (none / 0) (#1)
    by kmblue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 05:39:05 AM EST
    but wasn't there a post here recently about Obama's grass roots supporters "taking a break?"
    Perhaps they are too young to care about health care?  
    Who knows? (2.80 / 5) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 07:08:33 AM EST
    It was kind of a cult thing where you did what the leader wanted during the election. But once you've moved on as it seems most of them have then they no longer care about any of this.

    Parent
    Seriously wow (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:16:15 AM EST
    its a "cult thing" wow, hey can you tell me the last time a person was elected president without having a certain segment of the population support them blindly- was Lincoln, Washington, who?   I mean you continuely criticize Obama and belittle those who supported him primarily because you just can't get over the primaries of 2008 and given that its a year-and-a-half later at this point its getting a bit sad, especially given your track record- "Obama's not going to win" "Obama will drag down down-ticket canidates" etc

    Parent
    Well, my anecdotal experience with (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by inclusiveheart on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:59:30 AM EST
    some of his biggest proponents lately has been that they've either responded to the healthcare and economic disappointments by telling me that they can't watch what's going on - because it is like watching a train wreck - and they are all exhibiting a distinct and growing cynicism that is rooted in their disappointment with how these things have gone on.  One friend yesterday was expressing some serious disappointment about the healthcare debate and Obama's performance.  He really thought that Obama was "the answer".  While I never really bought into that primarily because my experience in watching politics and politicians is fairly long and deep, I had hoped that my friend and others like him would turn out to be right in the end.  But I always worried about the potential for them to be deeply disappointed and thus turned off by politics.  That it seems is starting to happen in his and a few others' minds.  I am recounting anectodal "evidence", but I think that might be one of the drivers behind  a segment of the population's withdrawl.  Then there are the people who always think that all you have to do to be politically active is get people elected and go vote.  Those folks generally check out as a matter of course when the governing decisions are being made - and then resurface to complain or cheerlead at the next election.

    Parent
    And your evidence for this claim is . . . ? (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by Spamlet on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:20:36 AM EST
    you continuely criticize Obama and belittle those who supported him primarily because you just can't get over the primaries of 2008

    Ga6th didn't even mention the primaries, whereas you have a habit of bringing them up whenever anybody here criticizes Obama for anything. Do you not see how that tends to reinforce the "cult" idea?

    Parent

    Ga6th continually (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 01:30:34 PM EST
    brought up and mentioned how only a Southern or someone with a connection to white working class Americans would win, and would connect, this is frankly something that has been proven false, and I feel it calls into question the validity of his current political analysis, especially when he often brings up how Bill Clinton would be doing it differently without acknowledging that the only reason that Obama has the opportunity to reform Healthcare is because the Clinton administration failed rather infamously in their attempt to do so.  

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 03:37:58 PM EST
    obama the reason Obama is failing has nothing to do with Clinton and everything to do with Obama.

    If Obama had been able to connect with the white working class voters and not ridiculed them then perhaps he wouldnt be having as many problems as he is right now. Did you like being ridiculed and sneered at by George W. Bush?

    Parent

    White Working Class (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 03:45:27 PM EST
    voters no longer have the importance they once did, that's not an opinion its a demographic fact- McCain recieved a similar percentage of the White Working class vote as Reagan recieved in 1980, but lost in a landslide because the face of America has changed.

    Parent
    Ahem (none / 0) (#63)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 04:14:57 PM EST
    1980 was a three way race so you're not really comparing apples to apples.

    The larger point is that these voters should be dems because a lot of their economic beliefs gibe with us. This is why I dont like the party being built on identity politics. It's already caused huge fissures in the party AND it's not the way to build a lasting majority. There's a lot of friction between African Americans and blacks (at least here in GA) that will cause one or the other to move to another party as long as it's all about identity and not issues.

    FDR had dixiecrats and AA's in the same party because of issues. It's the only way to build and keep a party.

    Parent

    The white working class has been GOP (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 04:51:06 PM EST
    since the 1960s- no Dem, not even Clinton in 1996 won a Majority ( or even a plurality) of the white working class, by your reasoning Hispanic Americans should be GOP- after all on social issues they agree far more the with Republican Platform than with our own. Oh, and AAs were primarily Republican in many of the same places that Dixiecrats ran for a reason.

    Parent
    You (none / 0) (#66)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 05:14:15 PM EST
    are wrong about Clinton. He did the best of any dem president with the white working class voters since LBJ according to the research that BTD has done.

    Don't you think that hispanics could leave if we dont serve their economic needs? I dont think Obama's millionaire welfare program is making an impression wtih them do you? And Obama's probably not going to get any meaningful immigration reform through either.

    Dixiecrats and AA's were in the same party in the south after FDR.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#71)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 06:16:10 PM EST
    and doing the best is a relative term- Clinton's best was still not a majority of the white working class vote- Hey Bush did the best of any GOP canidate in recent memory among hispanics- guess what that didn't mean he won them.

    Parent
    Oh Boo Hoo (3.25 / 4) (#11)
    by ChiTownMike on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:52:16 AM EST
    Obama is failing miserably in so many areas so his loyal want to drag up the election just because they criticize Obama and those who blindly followed him.

    The news yesterday is that Obama was trying to resurrect his flock from the ashes to help him fight the GOP onslaught and what is he getting? Crickets. After all it's summer and there are more important things to do like PARTY! Health What?

    I don't think Clinton would be giving in so easily in abandoning a real public health plan in favor or voluntary co-ops that not one insurance company will participate in if it is not profitable. Oh sure they may limit coverage to a couple of million just to silence those who want real health care reform, but they are not going to insure 40 million with the caveats that Obama is 'talking' about. And when I say 'talking' I mean exactly that because Obama is now famous for saying one thing and then doing another. As Frank Rich asked - 'are we getting Punked' by Obama? Seems that way.

    It's a shame that personality won the primary instead of someone with a track record of fighting.

    BTW Socraticsilence, I'm still pissed that Gore got screwed by the SCOTUS. Are you going to criticize me for that?

    Parent

    Its always easier to assume (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:26:16 AM EST
    that your hypothetical idealized image of Hillary Clinton would have solved things by now isn't it, I mean sure Obama's helped turn around the biggest economic danger in more than 3/4 of a century, and sure he's moved steadily to attempt to solve ethe Gordian knot of Gitmo, and sure he's withdrawn US troops from Iraqi cities in preparation for a larger pullback, but dangit he hasn't been able to solve healthcare the grail of progressive politicians since FDR.

    Parent
    Thanks for the laugh! (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by jbindc on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 01:35:11 PM EST
    I mean sure Obama's helped turn around the biggest economic danger in more than 3/4 of a century, and sure he's moved steadily to attempt to solve the Gordian knot of Gitmo

    Really?

    Parent

    On the Gore thing (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:30:00 AM EST
    its one thing to remain angry about something unpreceedented in our nations history (2000) its another thing entirely to still be angry about the the outcome of a campaign which while tightly fought was won clearly and decisively by a particular canidate.

    Parent
    To clarify (none / 0) (#22)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 10:31:30 AM EST
    on Gore I should have said "unprecedented in the Modern era" as Tilden and Jackson were also defeated under highly specious circumstances.

    Parent
    We can't know that, can we? (none / 0) (#40)
    by Spamlet on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:26:06 AM EST
    I don't think Clinton would be giving in so easily in abandoning a real public health plan in favor or voluntary co-ops that not one insurance company will participate in if it is not profitable.

    But we can be pretty sure that any Democratic president would have to fight the GOP and the media and the Blue Dogs to bring about health care (or health insurance) reform.

    Parent

    At this point I'm wondering (none / 0) (#53)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 01:32:15 PM EST
    what the Blue Dogs give us- they're against Obama and the Progressive Caucus to his left on the War, Torture, Gitmo, the Stimulus, Healthcare, etc- seriously what do the Heath Shulers et al back us on?

    Parent
    I guess they keep certain seats (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Spamlet on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 01:35:35 PM EST
    nominally Democratic rather than b@tsh!t crazy Republican. That's about it.

    Parent
    That's fair (none / 0) (#57)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 03:15:12 PM EST
    I mean Blue Dogs might not back things, but they generally don't talk about "death panels" and "birth certificates" either.  A more politically feasible question might be why does Maine have 2 GOP senators?

    Parent
    Right (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Steve M on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 03:39:18 PM EST
    Like this Democrat who says "I will never vote for a bill to kill old people."  Of course I had to go all the way back to earlier this afternoon to cherry-pick that example.

    Parent
    BTD always emphasizes the issues, not the pol-- (none / 0) (#42)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:39:26 AM EST
    In the primaries and general election,Obama did not really emphasize issues or specific principles; he said things to private fundraisers which undercut what he was telling the general public. Sooner or later, this kind of behavior is noticed and has effects. Also, the lack of specificity, the attempts to slide around, under, or over the more difficult aspects of changing the health care payment system is damaging Obama's ability to sell it. As it does all Dems'. As in "Sell me WHAT??". Very damaging to credibility.

    People are right to be suspicious (I'd prefer they were rational about it, but, it's coming in part from lack of Dem principles being represented in the WH and Congress's legislative work.

    The time this is being noticed seems to be coming sooner than I'd expected.  

    Can he turn things around?

    If he gets genuine health CARE through which benefits all the people, he soars. If not? Well, the Repubs are pretty disorganized, so they may not have the strength to offer a winning candidate. However, if the Finance People feel they've gotten all they need out of Obama, the MCM* will probably go along with the Repubs.

    Interestingly, on Inside Washington this week, almost every pundit was saying Obama's WH has botched the health care issue and sales job badly. At least a week behind on whatever the Repubs throw at it and the Dems. Very inside the Beltway, very MCM, but with the gloss of PBS....

    August 16, 2009
    This week on Inside Washington: The spirited, sometimes nasty debate over health care: What are the political consequences of the debate for the president and Sen. Arlen Specter, D-PA? Next week's presidential election in Afghanistan: What is the end-game for American military forces there? Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's extensive African mission. Was it a success? And a tribute to Eunice Kennedy Shriver, who died this week at the age of 88.  

    No transcript, but there is video at the link. Mark Shields, Charles Krauthammer, Evan Thomas, and, iirc, Jeanne Cummings (pretty rational!). Can't recall if it was here on McL Grp, the prediction is that heads will roll at the WH, if not soon in a few months.

    BTW, McL Grp is going wacko, due to McLaughlin himself loosing touch with reality in attacking Obama's health insurance plan. Sad to watch, but he is basically a Repub, so par for the course.

    *MCM--Mainstream Corporate Media

    Parent

    You (none / 0) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 03:34:28 PM EST
    are so off base it's not funny. I criticize Obama because he's a wimp who has set it up for the GOP rule to continue. A large part of the problem is that this is what happens when you don't campaign on issues but on personality. The minute the whole personality thing wears off you have where we are now.

    The only other president that played the cult thing was George W. Bush and I'm old enough to remember back to elections in the late 60's.

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    Wait you (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 03:48:47 PM EST
    don't think Reagan had a cult of personality that let him get people to follow things that they normally wouldnt, you don't think Bill Clinton had a cult thing going with a certain segment of the population? Seriously, if you can't see it with Clinton I'll just assume its a personal bias, but not being able to see it with Reagan- who's basically been canonized by segments on the right is kind of absurd.

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    No (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 05:19:48 PM EST
    at the time Reagan DID NOT have a cult of personality surrounding him. He was issued based not personality based. There now exists some Reagan cultists who were probably also Bush cultists. I guess you could compare Reagan cultism to Kennedy cultism. It didnt happen while they were in office but afterwards.

    Here's what you fail to see--that cultism is personality based. It's hard to develop a cult when it's based on issues not a person or a personality. Haven't you noticed that almost all cults seem to ahve some charismatic leader?

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    So you didn't (none / 0) (#68)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 05:23:28 PM EST
    see the Clinton cult, gotcha.

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    Do you (none / 0) (#70)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 06:00:40 PM EST
    see the Obama cult?

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    Yes I do (none / 0) (#72)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 06:20:51 PM EST
    I see the same cult that envelopes any successful American politician, to think that Obama is somehow more immune from criticism than Bush, Clinton or Reagan were is just wrong.

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    I've (none / 0) (#73)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 06:33:32 PM EST
    never said that he was immune from criticism so I don't know where that's coming from. His followers though seem to think that he shouldnt be criticized though.

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    Disagree (none / 0) (#69)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 05:38:21 PM EST
    Reagun most certainly had a bevy of cultists who drooled uncritically over his every word. He could tell them he was giving them death potion and they would drink thinking it was kool aid.

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    what a stupid (none / 0) (#34)
    by coigue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:13:59 AM EST
    useless comment.

    Seriously, you are acting very childish.

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    Or...they are thinking (none / 0) (#32)
    by coigue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:12:50 AM EST
    that they do not want to have mandated insurance???

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    Could be (none / 0) (#45)
    by Spamlet on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:42:32 AM EST
    If so, that stance is often one aspect of someone's being too young to care about health care. It can indicate limited knowledge about how health insurance works and limited life experience.

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    It's (almost) official (none / 0) (#28)
    by jbindc on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:05:15 AM EST
    Kiss a public option goodbye:

    WASHINGTON - Apparently ready to abandon the idea, President Barack Obama's health secretary said Sunday a government alternative to private health insurance is "not the essential element" of the administration's health care overhaul.

    The White House indicated it could jettison the contentious public option and settle on insurance cooperatives as an acceptable alternative, a move embraced by some Republicans lawmakers who have strongly opposed the administration's approach so far.

    Officials from both political parties reached across the aisle in an effort to find compromises on proposals they left behind when they returned to their districts for an August recess. Obama has been pressing for the government to run a health insurance organization to help cover the nation's almost 50 million uninsured.

    Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said the White House would be open to co-ops instead of a government-run public option, a sign Democrats want a compromise so they can declare a victory on the must-win showdown.
    Well if that is true, I hope (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:41:28 AM EST
    Dean has enough organized support to follow through on primary challenges.

    I would like to see a Progressive revolt in the House over this. Unfortunately, even if it happened, IMO it would be shut down in short order by Dem leadership.  

    BTW, cooperatives run by the insurance industry will in no way exert pressure on the industry to contain costs or change their behavior. Obama has claimed all along that that element must be in the reform package. Guess that requirement is out the window too. A trillion dollar program with cuts to the Medicare budget which will make the insurance industry richer and stronger. Heck of deal.

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    Dorgan Says It's Dead Too (none / 0) (#41)
    by daring grace on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:26:49 AM EST
    But then, he's one of the ones throttling it in the cradle.

    Still, Sebelius also is quoted this AM as saying:

    "There will be a competition to private insurers," she said. "You don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing. We need some choices and we need some competition."


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    Has anyone heard anything in the MCM about Jay (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:47:45 AM EST
    Rockefeller's argument that health "co-ops" are very few in number in the US, there used to be more but were killed or eaten by Big Insurance Parasites, and he wants a GAO study?

    Oh, right. Certain news is news which must not be mentioned least it upset the powerful....

    Links at this link.

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    Private insurance companies competing (none / 0) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:51:53 AM EST
    against private insurance companies. We've all seen how well that has worked. Where will the competition to private insurers come from if co-opts are all offering only private insurance options?

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    Exactly: My state (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:08:55 PM EST
    has an auto insurance mandate.  The mandate led to no initial insurance rate decrease.

    My insurer raised my rates.  I called my agent and threatened to find new insurance, to which they essentially said, "tee-hee"."

    Tee-hee was right.  Rates were so close between the agencies that it almost looked like collusion.

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    The Silent Majority | 75 comments (75 topical)

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