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Saturday Morning Open Thread

Can Tom Watson win the British Open? Watch this morning's 3rd round to see if he can stay in contention. He is currently tied for the lead.

The Tour de France heads to the Alps to end the Tour (before the traditional last stage that ends down the Champs Elysees.)

This is an Open Thread.

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    Amazon (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 08:22:07 AM EST
    deletes 1984 from the Kindle, even copies you've already purchased. . . .

    Surprised? (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 08:41:21 AM EST
    So, these Kindle units are technically available to some master computer 24/7?

    Parent
    Amazing and scary (5.00 / 5) (#6)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 08:45:07 AM EST
    that they can come into your electronic devices and take away content you have already purchased.

    That they did this with George Orwell's works is beyond irony.

    Parent

    Just saw this proposal by Obama (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 08:39:35 AM EST
    on Medicare.

    After weeks of talk, the White House began circulating draft legislation Wednesday spelling out President Barack Obama's proposal that Congress surrender much of its authority over payment rates for Medicare to a new executive agency.

    The proposed five-member Independent Medicare Advisory Council would be charged with making two annual reports dictating updated rates for Medicare providers including physicians, hospitals, skilled nursing facilities, home health and durable medical equipment. Congress could block the recommendations only if lawmakers agreed within 30 days on a resolution, and the greater veto power would lie with the White House itself.   Politico

    It would be effective on September 15, 2014.

    Wouldn't this give any President the ability to dictate policy and slash Medicare payments to providers if he wished. We've all seen how so called "Independent Agencies" can be stack so that they dance to the tune of the President. Since it is no big secret that Republicans would like to abolish Medicare, getting a veto proof majority to override harmful cuts to Medicare would be unlikely IMO especially if the president was a Republican.


    Looks to me like there might be an (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by andgarden on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 08:42:46 AM EST
    embedded legislative veto there too, which isn't kosher.

    Parent
    Since I'm not a lawyer, (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:06:54 AM EST
    I'm not sure I understand.

    My understanding is that under the current system these powers reside in Congress. Under the proposed system they would reside with a so called Independent agency. Let's take a worse case scenario. We have a Republican president who surprise, surprise would like to do away with Medicare. His so called Independent agency slashes payments to providers by 50%; thereby, making Medicare unworkable. In order to prevent this from going into effect, Congress would have to come up with an alternative proposal and pass it with a veto proof majority within 30 days. This IMO would be extremely difficult or impossible to accomplish.

    Parent

    So far (2.00 / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:46:21 AM EST
    is the Demos who are wanting $400 billion from Medicare..

    stone... eye...thine...remove, etc.

    Parent

    You are correct. (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:53:42 AM EST
    Since the Republicans couldn't cut the Medicare budget, the Democrats will do it for them.

    Think you have your biblical quote wrong though. Isn't the correct word splinter instead of stone?

    Parent

    I see it as a step towards (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:56:48 AM EST
    eliminating Medicare in O's 2nd term. Doesn't he refer to it as an entitlement?

    Has he mentioned anything about SS lately?

    Parent

    Eliminating either would result in the (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:58:27 AM EST
    biggest march on Washington ever plus punishment at the ballot box by the group most likely to vote.  

    Parent
    I have very little faith . . . (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:00:53 AM EST
    or would that be "hope"?

    Parent
    Faith, hope, charity... (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:56:38 PM EST
    I have very little faith, or hope, that the current administration will deliver much of anything that is charitable.

    Parent
    He's still hunting the disgruntled (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:01:28 AM EST
    Republican vote :)?

    Parent
    Do you mean something more like (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:59:58 PM EST
    pandering to, or representing the interests, of disgruntled Republicans - versus the Democratic voters who brung him?

    Parent
    I hope you're right. (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:07:22 AM EST
    Lately, though, it seems like we are more and more used to being abused and taking whatever they dish out, without much protest at all.

    I am very afraid that Obama can get away with just about anything. If he says SS is an entitlement that needs to go away, his adoring base will say "Amazing! I never thought of it that way! He's right, you know, it is an anachronistic entitlement and it's ruining the economy...."

    Aargh.

    Parent

    From the start (5.00 / 5) (#65)
    by cal1942 on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:06:18 AM EST
    Obama and SS have been a genuine concern.

    I keep thinking 'only Nixon can go to China ...'

    Parent

    Isn't the majority of the most (5.00 / 4) (#155)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 02:19:31 PM EST
    adoring faction of the "adoring base" mostly under the age of 30? It's worrisome that the need for Social Security and Medicare is at a distant remove for them. I mean, I know they have parents and grandparents. But there's so much seething resentment toward the Baby Boomers, who are the next in line for these so-called "entitlement programs". Time to call in the Gray Panthers!

    Parent
    You notice that this proposal would (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:08:01 AM EST
    go into effect on September 15, 2014 and not before the 2012 election. The same way the so called health care reform would not go into effect until 2013.

    Parent
    That's what jumped out at me (5.00 / 5) (#34)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:10:51 AM EST
    whatever happens, I get the impression we won't be happy . . . . but we can't let that get in the way of 2012!

    who me jaded?!

    Parent

    "mote" (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:59:54 AM EST
    King James Version. (5.00 / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:13:29 AM EST
    Evidently there are different versions (none / 0) (#38)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:15:23 AM EST
    of Matthew 7. From what I can determine, splinter is used in the Catholic version. That would make sense since I was raised Catholic.

    Parent
    Here's what really struck me re the (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:17:52 AM EST
    various older translations:  dost, thou, etc. Verily, verily, . . .

    Parent
    Seems that we have a club (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:23:13 AM EST
    of pretty disillusioned, cynical women going here. We should start a movement - what should we call ourselves?

    Parent
    It is a splinter from your neighbors eye (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:00:04 AM EST
    before removing the plank from your own I think :)

    Parent
    Yes- splinter, (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Zorba on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:34:00 PM EST
    mote, speck, grain of dust- depending on the translation.  ;-)

    Parent
    Did you see any (2.00 / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:23:25 AM EST
    of these "....." around my words? Next time I will try and include ... "paraphrasing.."

    And it does appear that Obama will do what the Left was so concerned over Bush doing.

    Shall we have another Czar Everyone? 32 and counting....

    How embarrassing it must be.

    Parent

    Embarrassing for who? (5.00 / 4) (#46)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:26:33 AM EST
    Many of us who are conversing saw him for who he was.

    And what did the R's offer up?

    Parent

    Politics being the art of the (2.00 / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:31:02 AM EST
    possible, I voted for McCain. Not because I thought he was 100% correct, but at least he wasn't 100% wrong.

    Parent
    Most of the criticism about (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:53:53 AM EST
    Obama and some other Democrats comes when they adopt right wing policies and agendas that are the same or similar to what McCain or other Republicans have advocated for in the past.

    McCain would be taking many of the same actions if he had become President and that is the problem.

    I'm embarrassed by the actions of both political parties but not by my vote during the past election since I didn't vote for either McCain or Obama.

    Parent

    MB, you're right... (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 02:41:43 PM EST
    But, I would modify your statement somewhat to say "McCain would be trying to take many of the same actions as Obama".

    Frankly, I don't think a Republican could get away with a continuation, and expansion, of draconian Bush-era policies. In other words, you were spot-on in the comment where you said:

    Since the Republicans couldn't cut the Medicare budget, the Democrats will do it for them.

    Evidently, when Obama, and the Dems, do it, there seems to be a collective sense of disbelief, denial, and inertia.

    Parent

    What was McCain right about? (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:34:34 AM EST
    Millions of long-standing D's (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:30:02 AM EST
    did not vote for Obama, some of them comment here. None of the commenters are without hard criticisms for Obama when they believe he is wrong. Who is it you are talking to, exactly?

    And it does appear that Obama will do what the Left was so concerned over Bush doing.

    Shall we have another Czar Everyone? 32 and counting....

    How embarrassing it must be.

    emphasis added.

    Parent

    Oh please... (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:53:57 AM EST
    None of the commentators here....????

    Change that to some and we agree.

    Same for "embarrassing."

    Parent

    You obviously aren't aware of our (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:38:47 AM EST
    left wing blog reputation around here.  We are the haters.  We have few friends in our search for results and universal truths or universal healthcare. You think we're a bunch of haters.  Oliver Willis thinks we're a bunch of haters.  Life sucks, I almost can't bear it :)

    Parent
    Boy does PPJ have the wrong blog N/T (none / 0) (#171)
    by otherlisa on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:26:49 PM EST
    Really? (none / 0) (#179)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:42:10 PM EST
    ppj has been commenting here for many years, long before the PUMAs arrived.

    Contrary to your believe that this blog is the wrong one for ppj, TL for the first time in the last year, imo, has commenters who share political views with ppj and are not wingnuts.  

    It is really amusing for me, as a long time TL commenter to watch.

     

    Parent

    By way of going biblical... (none / 0) (#146)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:46:25 PM EST
    Biblos has a number of translations on the thing in your eye theme, from Matthew 7:3.

    Parent
    He doesn't represent me.. (2.00 / 0) (#148)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:54:58 PM EST
    You make the excuses.

    Parent
    Huh? Note the user name... (5.00 / 0) (#162)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 02:46:20 PM EST
    Jim, I know this is difficult for you (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:57:35 AM EST
    to understand....but we aren't looking for Gods to worship around here or someone to carry a standard for other than ourselves.  We are looking for the people who can do the jobs that must be done to maintain a civilization.  I don't vote Republican because Republicans don't believe government can do anything well other than kill people who upset them.  Current day Republicans will print all the money they want to go kill some bad people and drive the entire nation into an economic meltdown and that's just fine with them because they already told ya that the government isn't good at doing any of this other stuff.  Why put you guys in charge of anything at all pertaining to government....you have no goals of actually accomplishing anything? But when you guys do get voted in you still cliam to need an office and a secretary and a postage meter and a flag and a fricken paycheck......to nothing well!  What a ripoff!  Nope, I'll be picking, and sorting, and criticizing through the "Demos" for a few good men and a couple of wise Latinas to get a damn job done around here for a change!

    Parent
    Tracy, I have been understanding you (2.00 / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:28:13 AM EST
    since I read your very first comment.

    That aside, you don't vote Repub because you are a pacificst and a member of the Far Left. As I noted above Obama will do what you were fearful of Bush doing only it will have to be the Repubs and a few Demos to stop him, if he can be stopped.

    Success was getting what you wanted. Happiness will be wanting what you have.

    I am merely enjoying the show.

    Parent

    I'm a pacifist? (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:35:38 AM EST
    OMG...that is priceless :)

    Parent
    Hey Jim (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:38:32 AM EST
    Did you hear that 5 Republican judges serving in Alabama just switched parties and are now "Demos"?

    Parent
    Why should I care?? (2.00 / 0) (#58)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:59:00 AM EST
    You are the one worried over AL...

    Parent
    A little less today though my friend (5.00 / 0) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:03:58 AM EST
    A little less today :)

    Parent
    Since you had about 30 (2.00 / 1) (#86)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:49:05 AM EST
    minutes to read my reply I think it obvious you either don't keep or up or just insult as your standard debate method.

    Come to think of it, both fits you.

    Parent

    My God what a collection (5.00 / 3) (#117)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:35:30 PM EST
    Call me entertained!

    Parent
    Yawn (none / 0) (#141)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:38:10 PM EST
    Shall we remind them of you quoting Alterman's incomplete quote of Alito??

    Really DA, you are so boring. Of course you can't bore me over at Tall Cotton since you're banned.

    I apologize to the site for his actions. His hatred and continual attacks... you will see he is always jumps first... have become somewhat of  of a concern to me. His actions verge on the obsessive.

    Parent

    I calls as I see'em... (2.00 / 0) (#66)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:06:53 AM EST
    Define pacifist as you are using it here? (5.00 / 0) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:07:52 AM EST
    please even

    Parent
    Perhaps anti-war anti-defense far Left type (2.00 / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:34:30 AM EST
    would suit you better.

    Parent
    Jim (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:47:11 AM EST
    My spouse is lengthening his military commitment with my full pleasure in doing whatever is required of me for him to do that.  He is doing so because the military is still so short handed that he doesn't feel like he can leave right now and not feel guilty.  He is at 20.5 years now. We have MORE THAN one Republican voting couple who are our friends for who that was not an option unless the soldier wanted to get a divorce in the process of serving longer.  After that there is zero doubt from here on out that my husband is going to be anything other than a DOD employee or a defense contractor.  I buy my cheap booze at the class six and my husband seeks deployment to Afghanistan right now (with my blessing) but no slots open for him before he needs to leave so he'll probably end up doing Korea.  He could take a deferment because his son will have two surgeries while he is gone as well but he's no Dick Cheney.....so he won't be doing that.  How could I possibly be living this life I'm living and be a pacifist?

    Parent
    MT, are you making this all up for (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:24:25 PM EST
    pir entertainment?  Did the astronauts actually walk on the moon?

    Parent
    I have heard that story before (1.00 / 2) (#87)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:50:14 AM EST
    and I have problems believing it.

    Parent
    Oh Dude (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:55:58 AM EST
    you are 1000% priceless

    Parent
    Hilarious (3.50 / 2) (#94)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:03:49 PM EST
    Maybe we can get the comment:

    ' I served ten years in Naval Avaitiation, where did you serve, you have no business commenting about military... bla bla bla.'

    In ppj's world the only people who served are those who opted for a brain operation implanting wingnuts and loose screws. Anyone who refused the surgery, just fantasized that they served or are serving.

    Parent

    One of these days in the near future (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:07:39 PM EST
    I'm going to really embarass Jim about this.  Mark my words :)

    Parent
    You don't have to embarrass Jim. (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:14:34 PM EST
    He is embarrassing himself with his last couple of comments.

    Parent
    squeaky that's a no no.. (3.00 / 0) (#153)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 02:04:54 PM EST
    You know that I never said you had to have served to comment. In fact, I have pushed the opposite.

    I plead guilty to saying that if you have not served your chances of knowing what you are talking about are reduced...

    As to why I make the comment that I served 10 years in Naval Aviation I started noting it in response to people demanding to know why I was serving. The answer was simple.

    I served 10 years in Naval Aviation.

    Your turn.

    Parent

    Hilarious (5.00 / 0) (#164)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 02:51:09 PM EST
    You got me there, ppj. I will rephrase:

    According to ppj, In order to have a valid comment about anything having to do with US war, or military matters you have to have served in the military.

    That is why ppj is disputing that Militarytracy's husband is actually in the military because no one who has served would ever disagree with ppj on militatry matters, unless they were a commie or lying about their service.

    Parent

    No, you still can't get it right (1.00 / 1) (#191)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:41:44 PM EST
    I said your chance of being right was reduced. Please try to be accurate.

    I have never had an exchange of comments with Tracy's husband so I cannot have had a disagreement with him.

    As for Tracy, I merely note that I have trouble believing that her husband is in the service. I think that is not illegal, immoral or fattening.

    Parent

    OK (5.00 / 0) (#195)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:53:57 PM EST
    How's this:

    1.Anyone who disagrees with ppj has no credibility.

    1. If they claim to have first hand experience, or extensive knowledge of a subject and disagree with ppj, they are either  lying about their experience or know nothing about the subject.

    2. Proof of the above is demonstrated by moving the goal posts, intellectual dishonesty, or dropping the subject only to make the same claim at a later point as if it was never disputed.


    Parent
    Oh, good grief. Don't make me (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by oldpro on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:37:22 PM EST
    call your Mom!

    Parent
    Jim...try 'anti-stupid/anti-waste' (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by oldpro on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:48:02 AM EST
    and 'anti-corruption' and I think you'll come closer to MT's philosophy.

    Pacifist?  Hardly.

    Parent

    I settled on anti-war and anti-defense (2.00 / 0) (#88)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:51:39 AM EST
    and I have been reading her since her first comment here.

    Parent
    Reading and comprehension are (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by oldpro on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:36:04 PM EST
    not the same thing, Jim.

    And Capote was correct in snarking about Kerouac's "On the Road:"  "That isn't writing.  That's typing."

    Words matter.

    Parent

    Then you're in the wrong place (5.00 / 0) (#99)
    by cal1942 on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:11:15 PM EST
    your comments would be better aimed if posted at DailyKos.

    On this site the overwhelming majority of commenters opposed Obama and have been very critical of him since the inauguration.

    Parent

    Yes (1.67 / 3) (#108)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:19:32 PM EST
    You have misread our ppj.  Hillary cultists, PUMAS and and ppj have much in common, heck many also switched to being an Independent just like PPJ.

    He fits into a niche of Obama haters at TL, dkos maybe a bit because they were part of the anti Hillary cult, but those embers are not as alive as the ones here.

    Parent

    Come on squeaky (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:40:34 PM EST
    There's at least seven degrees of separation between PUMAs and ppj at Talkleft.  We didn't attract birther PUMAs :)

    Parent
    Yeah (1.00 / 1) (#138)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:31:11 PM EST
    I always am amazed when two groups that seem to have little in common bond in a venn diagram sort of way, or make actual alliances. While those who have 98% in common become sworn enemies.

    Here Rush and the PUMA's are speaking the same language. And pathetically pumping it up for imagined political gain. Although Rush, I am certain, is just a teevee whore who could care less than anything but ratings.

    Parent

    Examples Please? (none / 0) (#151)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 02:01:48 PM EST
    Here Rush and the PUMA's are speaking the same language.


    Parent
    Never Heard Rush Speak (none / 0) (#160)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 02:44:00 PM EST
    But going from this comment by Militarytracy and this comment by FoxholeAtheist we have a venn diagram crossover between Rush and PUMA.

    Not to mention that Rush is suggesting (hoping) that the Democratic party is divided by internal wars. The very acronym PUMA, corroborates Rush's hopes, dreams and comments about intra party wars.

    Parent

    Hmmm . . . . (none / 0) (#167)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:12:32 PM EST
    I still don't see how that ties Rush and PUMA aside from the acronym. Especially with comments here. Context and motivation tend to vary greatly in many cases.

    Ick, just thinking about Rush turns my stomach . . .

    Parent

    OK (none / 0) (#170)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:23:01 PM EST
    FoxHoleAthiest and other's take great delight in pointing out how the Democratic party is fracturing. Specifically, regarding Obama's recent speech to the NAACP, FoxHoleAthiest spun out a story about how the NAACP and other young, and old AA's are splitting with Obama.

    Rush, according to Militarytracy,  is making a case, (tenuous, imo) that there is a race war within the Democratic party. Both are taking delight in seeing the party fracture, in their own minds, that is.

    Parent

    Ah. I wasn't seeing where you (none / 0) (#180)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:43:19 PM EST
    were going. I think I was being a tad too literal. Either that or my brain is too far in sweetness land from the fresh picked sugar plums  . . .   :)

    I'm happy to see some blocks of disgruntled folks in the party. We need them to help "push" O to the left on issues like HIR. I think there were others aside from the CBC who were not happy with how the funds were being doled out.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#182)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:51:43 PM EST
    I agree disgruntled folks in the party can be a great positive force.

    Thoughtless kneejerk spin, serves no one, imo.

    Parent

    Calling PPJ (2.00 / 1) (#144)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:44:07 PM EST
    Looks like you have a new friend, Dr Molly.

    ROTFLMAO imagining the venn diagram that links you, Dr Molly, and Militarytracy, and moi

    Hilarious.

    Parent

    Since squeaky brough up hatred (none / 0) (#147)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:53:04 PM EST
    Posted by Squeaky at September 19, 2005 11:19 PM

    Rove never needed proof for his smear machine, why should I.

    I have much more, but why? I describe my vision of MT and seveal of you have gathered around like a middle school cliche.

    Tracy. You wanted to talk Vietnam. I said we never lost a battle but we surrendered. You disagreed. Proof???


    Parent

    Hatred? (2.00 / 1) (#161)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 02:45:45 PM EST
    Sheesh, ppj. More like love than hate..

    I was just trying to do a little matchmaking with you and Dr Molly.

    Parent

    And you miss again (none / 0) (#192)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:45:14 PM EST
    This was your comment..

    He fits into a niche of Obama haters at TL,

    Short term memory problems, eh??

    Parent

    Don't Worry (none / 0) (#193)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:47:08 PM EST
    The Obama haters mentioned above are also in denial.

    Parent
    Beyond the fact (2.00 / 0) (#197)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:03:11 PM EST
    that I hate no one... you would be right saying I find his policies terrible.....

    But nice try at trying to change the subject.

    Parent

    It is wonderful (none / 0) (#194)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:49:25 PM EST
    to have someone following you around obsessing over you....would someone like there very own troll?

    Parent
    Oh, for the love of God... (5.00 / 7) (#20)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:50:47 AM EST
    Are you kidding me?

    This may be one of the dumbest, most short-sighted ideas I've heard since I found out that there would be restricted access to any public option created under Congress' health care reform (I liken that idea to having a "public" transportation system that you wouldn't be able to use if you had a car or a motorcycle - it wouldn't matter if you wanted to save money and reduce the stress of commuting - as long as you had a car, you would be denied access to the public bus, light rail and train system).

    Know what I think?  I think Medicare and Medicaid are in greater danger than ever before, and I think Social Security is next.  At a time when the economy is bad and those using IRA's and 401(k)'s to supplement their income have seen that income reduced, those who need as much benefit as Medicare can provide are in danger of seeing those benefits reduced.  Obama's already got the idea that we pay too much for old people who are just going to die anyway and don't need all that health care they're getting - and this kind of cost-cutting is being offered up in order to pay for the "reform" that is probably just going to see us go back to an even worse form of managed care than we have already experienced.

    It boggles the mind how huge the blind spot is that is keeping single-payer off the table - it's not uniquely American enough for Obama, isn't in line with the employer-provided plans that keep people shackled to their jobs, doesn't have the same kind of high administrative overhead and would, I guess, insure too many people.  

    Independent Medicare Advisory Council, my a$$...more like the Council of "Hey, all you old people - get your ice floes here!"

    Parent

    That's what I'm worried about. Hope the Gang (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:55:24 AM EST
    of Six can slow this down until the public, at least those interested, has a chance to figure out what's going to happen if the proposals pass.  Has Krugman taken on the latest health care bills yet?

    Parent
    Kip Sullivan, from Physicians For (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:12:00 AM EST
    a National Health Plan (PNHP), left this comment at FDL in response to a post that was meant to highlight Waxman's Cost Efficiency additions to the plan:

    Scarecrow's title is very misleading. With the possible exception of bundled payments for inpatient (that is, hospital) services, there is no reason to think the "reforms" referred to in the summary from Waxman's committee that Scarecrow quotes will contribute to cost containment UNLESS they lead to widespread denial of necessary medical services. Some of these proposal may well do that.

    Some of the "reforms" (such as hiring more nurses to help chronically ill patients learn to manage their diseases better, a reform all gussied up with the pointless metaphor "medical home") will improve the health of some patients, but the cost of the intervention (in this case the hiring of more nurses and other activities that are supposed to go on in "homes") have already been shown in most pilot projects to match or exceed the savings due to improved health of patients.

    Other "reforms" Scarecrow cites are just new forms of managed care. "Payment models," for example, no doubt refers to some form of "capitation," the payment method that HMOs popularized in the 1970s and 1980s. Or perhaps it refers to the latest rage in establishment health policy -- "pay for performance" -- which means bureaucrats prepare crude report cards on doctors and hospitals (much as Bush prepared crude report cards on schools) and reward "good" providers and punish "bad" providers. ACOs refers, I presume, to "accountable care organizations," a new euphemism for HMOs. The "measurement tool" that will be used to inform doctors about how many tests they order compared with the average for their location is just a reincarnation of "profiling," something the HMOs pioneered.

    These Managed Care 2.0 "reforms" will probably work the way traditional managed care worked -- they will drive up the administrative costs of the system, reduce access to medical care for some patients (especially services to more vulnerable patients and services for which guidelines are hard to write, such as home care services, stroke rehab services, and treatment of mental health problems), damage quality of care more than they enhance it, and have no net effect on costs or even raise costs.

    The House bill and the Senate HELP committee bill are already riddled with with numerous expressions of Managed Care 2.0 theology. I'm surprised Waxman felt he had to burden the House bill with even more experiments in unproven managed care tactics.

    America is going through a hideous deja vu experience. We're seeing the old HMO experiment recycled with all the same rhetoric and false diagnoses of the problem we endured between 1970 and 1973 when the modern health care reform debate began, and when the Nixon White House and Congress cooked up the doomed experiment with HMOs. The unholy alliance that persuaded Nixon and the Democrats back then to promote HMOs(the insurance industry, big business, and some policy entrepreneurs like Paul Ellwood and Alain Enthoven) looks very much like the unholy alliance promoting Managed Care 2.0 today.

    If we don't stop it, we will look back on the days of Managed Care 1.0 as a picnic. During the heyday of Managed Care 1.0 -- about 1970 to 1995 -- it was the insurance industry that wielded the basic tools of managed care (financial incentives to doctors to deny care, utilization review of doctors by HMO bureucrats when financial incentives didn't "work," and limited choice of provider). The unholy alliance promoting Managed Care 2.0 today wants the government, especially Medicare, to play a much more active role in creating financial incentives to deny care and in meddling in the doctor-patient relationship.

    There are so many reasons to dislike the House and Senate HELP bills. It's hard to say which ranks as my most important reason for disliking these bills. I guess the fact that both bills funnel hundreds of billions of dollars to the insurance industry and almost no dollars to the pathetic little "public options" is my number one reason. But right behind that is my horror at the brave new world of managed care that is being cooked up for us while we sleep.

    On the other hand, maybe my number one reason for disliking these bills should that when the Managed-Care-2.0 tactics fail and infuriate the public, Americans won't just point the finger at insurance companies. They will point them at "government," and in particular the Democrats who promoted this stuff.

    All this to keep single-payer out of the picture...it's like SP is a terrorist plot or something.

    As for Krugman, he hasn't had a whole lot to say lately, which may mean something, or it may mean nothing.


    Parent

    Krugman doesn't like (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:00:03 AM EST
    the Gang of Six: NYT

    Re the physician's comment:  I have never met a physician who had anything positive to say about anything they deem "managed health care."  

    Parent

    My friend's physician husband (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:11:56 AM EST
    refers to it as "mangled" care, with emphasis on the "mangled."

    Parent
    He won't bring (none / 0) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:02:39 AM EST
    single payer NHC to the table because it will cut out too many insurance companies. And they are the most powerful foes NHC has. Something I.....patting myself on the back... have pointed out time and again.

    Parent
    Congratulations on attaining (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:10:24 AM EST
    Master of the Obvious status; this is an honor bestowed on all who continue to point out what everyone else already knows and understands.  

    Perhaps your next endeavor could be trying to do something long believed to be impossible: licking your own elbow.  We'll see you when you come back to report on your progress.

    Parent

    Since I have been saying the above for (2.00 / 0) (#79)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:42:06 AM EST
    about 30 years it is difficult for me to remember exactly when I figured it out.

    Most likely it was about the time I discovered that many on the far Left could never accept partial agreement. You were either with them or against them.

    Parent

    You figured that out (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by cal1942 on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:13:36 PM EST
    all by yourself?

    Parent
    You should value the (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:18:25 PM EST
    "either you are with us or against us" philosophy since it was a cornerstone of the Bush administration.

    Parent
    I think he learned it from the Left (2.00 / 0) (#154)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 02:07:17 PM EST
    But he never did catch on to the fact that you can't do business with them.

    Parent
    Well, when all those super smart (2.00 / 0) (#196)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:54:36 PM EST
    Demos took control of Congress gas was around $2.00 a gallon, unemployment was under 5% and the market was around 13000..  17 short months later, 7/2008, unemployment was above 6% and climbing, the market was falling and gas was above $4.00 a gallon..

    Anymore of this great Demo prosperity and we'll be starving...

    Parent

    You're right IMO (5.00 / 5) (#59)
    by cal1942 on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:59:09 AM EST
    This is an absolutely terrible proposal.

    It would ultimately be controlled by the President alone.  Another step to establishing an absolute monarchy.

    Congress will always feel a certain amount of heat regarding Medicare payment rates.

    Imagine a Republican President (like W) holding the fate of Medicare in his hands alone.

    Are we sure this guy isn't just a stealth Republican.

    Parent

    I don't see how the ice floes proposal... (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by lambert on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:04:53 PM EST
    .... is going to work without this, so all good progressives should support it. What's wrong with you?

    Parent
    The Party of Half-Measures (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:13:16 AM EST
    Why are the Democrats taking a half-measure approach to every pressing issue? The economy, health care, the environment, etc.

    Is this the best we can ever get?

    The best that I can come up with (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:20:10 AM EST
    is that any real improvement would result in them ticking off their corporate donors. Filling the party's and individual politician's campaign chests is their top priority.

    Parent
    I think this has to be correct. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:23:16 AM EST
    Why else? I mean, it's not rocket science.

    We pay more here for bad health care than in many other countries - so it's not like it has to be invented from whole cloth, there are good models out there. It's just not that hard.

    European countries have passed REAL climate change legislation; what we got was a half-@ssed bill with throw-aways to the coal industry and other polluters.

    Etc.

    I guess this is as good as it's gonna get.

    Parent

    Didn't you listen to the Sotormayor (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:32:24 AM EST
    confirmation?  We can't be educating outselves about what foreign countries do.  That is the equivalent of letting France or England rule the U.S.

    Parent
    Laugh to keep from crying. (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:42:49 AM EST
    But no more talk about campaign finance (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:39:47 AM EST
    reform.  Both parties still hold hope to garner the lion's share of possible corporate contributions even though the economy has blown up and corporations will be struggling to survive the disaster that they all took part in creating.  I can't think about all this. I'll give myself a headache.

    Parent
    I guess it's inevitable, then? (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:44:45 AM EST
    We will be ruled by corporations. Some historian that studies the rise of the corporate world should enlighten us as to whether there will every be a way out, and whether regular people will ever have their needs served by government.

    God, I better stop - pretty soon, I'll be on kdog's side.

    Parent

    Me too :) (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:45:22 AM EST
    Corporations, regardless of their true (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:48:24 AM EST
    financial condition, seem to have enough money for the important things like large campaign contribution and obscene executive salaries and bonuses. If they are running short of funds, the President and Congress can always give them more taxpayer money so that can continue funding these important business expenses.

    Better stock up on your favorite headache remedy. You may need it.

    Parent

    I guess you missed the announcement (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:55:30 AM EST
    of the new motto: "Hey, It's Better Than Nothing!"

    What we need is more wasabi, and all we're getting is bland, colorless, tasteless, tepid gruel...otherwise known as Bipartisanship in Action.  

    Bleaaah.

    Parent

    The We're Better Than Nothing Party (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:04:30 AM EST
    We are all such sheeple!!

    Parent
    Oh.....oh.....oh......oh (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:11:22 AM EST
    Did anyone see Marcos last night on Maher and hear him say that he thinks Obama wants the Left to PUSH?  I'm sorry everyone, I just about fell out of bed.  Frick Marcos....PUSH then.....PUSH!

    Parent
    I am so sick (5.00 / 4) (#62)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:03:30 AM EST
    of this theme "we have to push him...".

    We elected them, and we did so for specific policy reasons. It's up to THEM now, not us, to deliver. Somehow, now it's our fault for not pushing???

    Parent

    I am also (5.00 / 4) (#70)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:19:14 AM EST
    I was never crazy about it before this because he made these promises.  He and Clinton had a mad competitive race and he made promises in order to be the chosen candidate and he won. Now I have to "push" him to keep those promises?  And if Markos in his interpretation of 11th dimensional chess calculates that now Obama wants the Left to Push....then perhaps chess players are almost on the same page as I am.  Now push damn it!  Push!

    Parent
    How about.... (5.00 / 4) (#71)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:23:18 AM EST
    Instead of us having to push, they have to lead and deliver on their promises.

    Parent
    What a novel idea (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:29:25 AM EST
    "Empty vessel." (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:48:59 AM EST
    Dan Quayle checks in on Obama: (none / 0) (#122)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:44:19 PM EST
    AP

    He seems to think the President is a left winger.

    Parent

    Wouldn't it be nice if he were? (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:51:49 PM EST
    Unfortunately.............

    Parent
    Yes, it seems like the "push" idea (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:24:16 AM EST
    is a necessary companion to his  (and Maher's) critiques.  But, I was disappointed as well  by his silence when Maher and other panelists took issue with criticisms of Cheney's terrorist hit squad program.  I thought, he, at least, would clarify that not to brief specified members of congress was against the law, not to mention the question of vice presidential authority to so direct the CIA.  Markos allowed himself to become irrelevant to the discussions, out-clowned by Governor Brian Schweitzer and out-classed by Anna Deavere Smith. And, of course, Maher was faithful to his misogyny and captured cheap and tasteless laughs with his comparisons between Sanford's love and Foley's lust.  Why did I watch again?  Someone please remind me.

    Parent
    if only for Maher's finale (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Sumner on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:47:43 AM EST
    Bill Maher ended on a wonderfully uplifting note of hope by citing the example of Britney Spears and her jumping right back into the game with her extravaganza world tour of Circus, after her earlier bumps in the road.

    My idea of Bill Maher testing his mettle, though,  would be for him to one-on-one with Alex Jones.

    Parent

    OMG, thank you for bringing that up (none / 0) (#90)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:53:25 AM EST
    because Maher freaked me out a bit as usual with his black ops ideas and how cool the movie "Munich" was.  At least Jason Alexander reminded him how tortured the hit squad became in the movie for cripes sake. Everybody always gets upset with me too when I say that these super special forces types are scary people, but I don't give a rip because they are.  Stand next to one at a party after they have a few cocktails and the curtain is drawn back a little more still and you don't want to even think about how "cool" breeding something like that is.......because it is anything but cool in real life.

    Parent
    It's usually cringeworthy (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by brodie on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:10:30 PM EST
    hearing some liberals loudly pronounce in favor of this or that military action, and the heck with the niceties of the law.  

    It just sounds jarring coming out of the mouth of liberal, normally Constitution-backing Maher, but I guess he feels insecure enough to need to show he has a tough side and, despite his slight size, isn't a wimp (recall, e.g., his literally going up into the audience not long ago to try to silence an obnoxious 9-11 Conspiracy heckler).

    I dont' think he quite pulls off the Tough Liberal Guy act, but other than this silliness and his occasional indulgence of troublemaking egotists like Nader, I usually enjoy his show.
     

    Parent

    Oops, just realized I spelled Markos' (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:16:40 AM EST
    name wrong.  I suppose I shouldn't tell him what to do when I can't even spell his name right.

    Parent
    And then he said this thing about (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:22:43 AM EST
    the Republican party deserting women.....I like him sort of alright most of the time but my hair was standing on end a little.  Is that a "yellow dog whistle" from him that he can easily take back later on if the chips seem to be down and my basic human rights as a bearer of a uterus could be beneficial to him placed on some chopping block?  Now I know why I misspelled his name wrong at first.  I'm not respectin him much at the moment.

    Parent
    Misspelled his name wrong? (none / 0) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:06:16 AM EST
    Holy Cow....look, I'm out of coffee and I don't want to go to the store this morning.

    Parent
    Yikes...out of coffee! Try (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by oldpro on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:55:20 AM EST
    chocolate...it has caffein, I hear.

    And, there's always bourbon which has side effects, but still...and if you're also out of chocolate and bourbon then you are in real trouble and no one can help you.

    Get dressed and go to the PX.

    Parent

    Trying to wrap my mind around the image (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:24:20 AM EST
    of Markos heeding the words of MT!

    Parent
    Nevah! (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:33:27 AM EST
    He's a reformed Republican :)  He was born out of desire to control and now he just wants to do it well.......even if a couple of uteruses get lopped off to get there.  It has a silver lining after all, it gives us women something to talk about in Women's Studies.  I was brought forth from the fires of burning bras :)  It is hard to be restrained.

    Parent
    Conason (none / 0) (#110)
    by cal1942 on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:21:43 PM EST
    this morning in Salon.

    Here.

    When I read stuff like this from Conason I stop and think, wasn't he an Obama supporter?

    Parent

    My belief (5.00 / 2) (#199)
    by jen on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:06:35 PM EST
    has long been that Repubs started infiltrating the Dem Party many years ago. Their success is now apparent.

    Parent
    the proportionality of things (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Sumner on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:31:15 AM EST
    I'm just now reading Glenn Greenwald on torture prosecution, about the apologists' spin, that "all this 'torture' and 'lying to Congress' and violating oversight laws is just 'cable catnip'".

    Greenwald on Cronkite is (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by oldpro on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:01:52 PM EST
    outstanding today...makes me want to shred my diploma from the Edward R. Murrow School since it's no longer relevant to the profession.

    His Halberstam quotes are on point - zing - sigh...so depressing.

    Parent

    Greenwald wasn't a huge fan (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:11:14 PM EST
    of Russert either.  I liked the point about any reporter worth his/her salt would be embarrased if more than 2 people showed up at his funeral.

    Parent
    I have a generally (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by brodie on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:31:27 PM EST
    positive attitude about both Cronkite and Halberstam, considering the entire record.  But their reporting on VN is more of a mixed bag, and both were, early on, pro-intervention, pro-Lyndon's War.  

    So, to that extent, despite the good things they did later, they both must bear some measure of responsibility, however small, in cheerleading, or at least not questioning, the initial buildup and even the next few yrs of massive escalation.

    Good though for Cronkite, and I'm very glad he broke with Lyndon on the War in what was clearly marked as his own editorial opinion.  

    Halberstam got wise a little after Cronkite, iirc.

    Parent

    I don't disagree...my memory (none / 0) (#127)
    by oldpro on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:55:22 PM EST
    isn't perfect on this subject.  I do remember that Cronkite and CBS got huge blowback from his editorial on Nam, from the administration, the Rs, pro-war Dems, major corporate sponsors, etc.

    THAT was the lesson the up-and-comers took from Cronkite's venture into reality journalism and commentary!  Don't rock the boat!  Siddown!  (Great song from Guys and Dolls, btw.)

    Parent

    Are you a WSU grad? (none / 0) (#135)
    by EL seattle on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:14:36 PM EST
    If so, you should keep the diploma.  The way universities are having to close schools and departments these days, a diploma from there might might be a real eBay collectible some day.

    Parent
    WSC, actually...pre university status. (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by oldpro on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:46:10 PM EST
    "The obscure we see eventually.  The competely obvious, it seems, takes longer."  No Murrow quote was ever more appropos than that one.  He must be spinning in his grave...

    Parent
    Single payer vs. HR3200 "public option" (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by lambert on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    I was leaving when you put that up (none / 0) (#131)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:06:59 PM EST
    I did not enjoy

    Parent
    Read that over at corrente (none / 0) (#133)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:11:46 PM EST
    Good talking points IMO.

    Parent
    Let's go back a few steps. What may (none / 0) (#137)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:25:01 PM EST
    I read that your recommend re a good public option?

    Parent
    There is no such thing (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by lambert on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 02:37:59 PM EST
    1. It's a hypothetical. The "progressives" whipping for it never had anything other than a set of vague bullet points, and could never agree among themselves what it meant. Finally, they settled on HCAN's, but the legislation -- quelle surprise -- doesn't adhere to any of the principles. Their response? Crickets.

    2. It's unproven. There is no example ever given of success for the plan that the leadership is pushing. Never. What is proven not to work is HMO managed care, which it turns out -- quelle surprise -- they are advocating.

    3. Even if it worked, there are no advantages. You don't get the $350 billion savings, because all you do is add another layer of administrative complexity (and you also only get 9 million in the plan, since it's means-tested and fire-walled).

    There is no such thing as a good public option, sad to say. Single payer is the real answer.

    Parent
    Then give me some help on single payer. (none / 0) (#157)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 02:40:53 PM EST
    Look to Canada and England?  Where to read?

    Parent
    As a place to get started, you might (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by Anne on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:29:52 PM EST
    try the site of PNHP, Physicians for a National Health Program.  The link I've provided is to their site map, which I think makes it easier to find what you're looking for.

    No shortage of information, that's for sure.

    Parent

    I would try Taiwan (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by lambert on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:58:41 PM EST
    Because they recently copied Medicare and put it in place in their country. There are still challenges, of course, but it's been a great success. See The Congressional Quarterly.

    (And thanks for persisting in a demand for linky goodness ;-)

    Parent

    Do you support a system in which there (none / 0) (#189)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:32:37 PM EST
    is a high ration of medical care professionals to patients, the is capitation, the government decides what percentage of income to devote to health care, and the latest research and technology are apparently not available?  

    Parent
    Just read Wiki. Is the Congress's (none / 0) (#165)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:05:50 PM EST
    plan for its own members's health single payer?

    Parent
    No, it is multiple payer (none / 0) (#184)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:01:53 PM EST
    Approximately 230,000,000 payers according to wikipedia.

    Parent
    On a lighter note (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:38:13 PM EST
    New jobs for the 21st century:

    Businesses benefit from mom-and-pop growers who cultivate pot to supplement their incomes and from marijuana plantation workers who descend on the Emerald Triangle from all over the country for the fall harvest. Pot "trimmers" can earn more than $40 per hour. Link

    A real growth industry {snark}.

    Would this require a move to the Midwest? (none / 0) (#166)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:06:35 PM EST
    No (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:34:52 PM EST
    This information is about California. nycstray is correct most of the activity is in Northern California.

    If my rural MO friends are correct, their area is being taken over by producers of meth and far right paramilitary groups. Personally, I would prefer our rural areas grow medical marijuana rather that be dedicated to the two activities I mentioned.

    Parent

    Or vineyards. My niece is there today. (none / 0) (#178)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:40:43 PM EST
    That too (none / 0) (#186)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:26:07 PM EST
    We have quite a few vineyards here in MO and some make pretty decent wine.

    Hope your niece enjoys her stay. We are having unseasonably cool weather today. 71 at the moment. She should be glad she is missing the hot and humid we normally experience this time of year.

    Parent

    She lives in Maryland Hgts.! (none / 0) (#190)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:33:40 PM EST
    Well if she lives in Maryland Heights (none / 0) (#198)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:06:31 PM EST
    I guess she will be here not just for today but for tomorrow too.

    Parent
    I was thinking Northern CA, lol!~ (none / 0) (#168)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:14:08 PM EST
    Perhaps some side work "in the field"  {grin}

    Parent
    Although one of offspring was exploring (none / 0) (#177)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:40:03 PM EST
    living in Arcata but settled on SF.  

    Parent
    Neil Oxman, Ed Rendell's David Axelrod, (none / 0) (#2)
    by andgarden on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 08:30:54 AM EST
    is caddying for Tom Watson.

    Strange story. . .

    British Open (none / 0) (#8)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:10:35 AM EST
    The links course at Turnberry appears to be a bear today as only 6 of the 66 players that have teed off are below par for the day.

    Can the 59 year old with a hip replacement hang on?
    (Just another clue that golf isn't really a sport, but rather a casual stroll for some and a good walk spoiled for others)

    A chance for Ben Curtis. (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:30:36 AM EST
    Next year (none / 0) (#45)
    by Steve M on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:24:49 AM EST
    the Open returns to the Old Course at St. Andrews, where I got married.  Then I'll actually be interested in watching!

    Parent
    There must be story behind that choice (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:27:05 AM EST
    of location.  I got interested in Ben when I read his wedding date was fixed but the time depended on when he finished a pro golf game out of town.

    Parent
    We decided to elope (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Steve M on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:31:47 AM EST
    and my friend who served as my best man was finishing up school in St. Andrews (where he was classmates with Prince William).  So we said, hey, that sounds like a romantic place to get married!  Honeymoon in London and Paris, still my only trip to Europe ever.  St. Andrews is nice but it rains every frickin' day.

    Parent
    Ben (none / 0) (#109)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:21:38 PM EST
    is watching on television after yesterday's meltdown, but new hip still sits atop the field (although tied with a spry 35 year old)

    Parent
    Wait 'til next year. (none / 0) (#187)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:27:33 PM EST
    It will (none / 0) (#116)
    by cal1942 on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:35:09 PM EST
    be difficult in the final rounds for someone of Watson's age, especially the putting.

    But, it sure would be great to see him win.

    Make no mistake, golf is a sport and an athletic endeavor.

    It is, for me, however a good walk spoiled by maddening frustration.

    Parent

    Rush Limbaugh says there's a race war (none / 0) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:28:23 AM EST
    within the Democratic party :)  I don't think he gets out much.  The Dixiecrats left us for you Rush.  On a different note though that has nothing to do with "race war", does anyone have a link to the report the Limbaugh is talking about pertaining the congressional black caucus not pulling their weight?

    Rush says a lot of things. (none / 0) (#82)
    by Fabian on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:47:31 AM EST
    But I must admit, this is unexpected.  Maybe he's just trying to point out that the Democratic Party is full of Those Brown People.

    Parent
    His point was that the (none / 0) (#95)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:04:45 PM EST
    Congressional Black Caucus complained about not receiving enough support to include financial support.....then some study of the situation was done and behold....members of the black caucus were not showing up to support other candidates or contributing to the democratic congressional effort.  Then Rush said the Democrats should just put affirmative action into use and give the caucus the money without them having earned it.  Then he linked our penchant for affirmative action to the job we are giving Sotomayor, which was really when he derailed.  He finished up by stating the race war within the Democratic party continues even though Obama won.....okay, whatever Rush.  I was curious though about this "study" or "report" or whatever that he is claiming states the Congressional Black Caucus does not pull its weight.  That would be something on paper and not just hot air coming from his blowhard hole.

    Parent
    Shiftless and Lazy Meme (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:12:11 PM EST
    Yeah, we got a fair amount of that here during the primaries. Many cultists argued that the youth support for Obama was not only going to die away after the election, but many new registered voters and those who made it to the primary would be too lazy to even bother voting in the GE.

    Heck, some even suggested that Obama would be too busy sleeping to deal with a national emergency.

    Parent

    touche (none / 0) (#103)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:15:37 PM EST
    So you going to start hanging out a bit again? (none / 0) (#105)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:17:01 PM EST
    I'm Baaack (5.00 / 0) (#111)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:21:57 PM EST
    After a mental health break, and real world distractions..

    Parent
    Cool! (5.00 / 0) (#113)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:27:28 PM EST
    I can't find anything to back up Rush's assertion that his bullsnot is based on.  The only thing I can find are some episodes of Rahm going off on people he thought weren't pulling their weight.  Now that's new and shocking.

    Parent
    my prayers go out to (5.00 / 0) (#121)
    by Sumner on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:42:15 PM EST
    Mischa Barton

    Parent
    And what has the GOP (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Fabian on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:31:36 PM EST
    done lately?

    Or even in the past eight years?

    Shiny objects, Rush, shiny objects.  It's what you use when your party is sitting on its ample ass.

    Parent

    From the world of opera, KUSC FM (none / 0) (#89)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 11:52:19 AM EST
    is streaming the most wonderful recordings.  Beverly Sills and Shirley Verrett singing duet from Norma, Roberta Peters singing Rosina's aria from Barber of Seville, lots of Robert Merrill.  

    The man who picks the selections is a partner in a law firm and this is his hobby.  He has this show on Sat. mornings and another Sunday evenings at 9:00 p.m.

    And a great person. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by oldpro on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:26:48 PM EST
    Fortunately for us, she was good friends (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:28:19 PM EST
    w/Tito Capabianco, artistic directer here, and she appeared here many times, including in Norma, Daughter of the Regiment, Der Rosenkavalier, and Merry Widow.  Probably the reason I became such an opera fan.

    Parent
    Also pals with (none / 0) (#124)
    by oldpro on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 12:46:28 PM EST
    Carole Burnett and sang up a storm with her on several memorable shows!

    Parent
    Say I saw a lot of those operas too! (none / 0) (#175)
    by otherlisa on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:35:04 PM EST
    As a product of San Diego public schools, back when they were some of the best in the country, we went to the opera a bunch of times. I got to see Bubbles, Norman Treagle (sp?), Joan Sutherland...really something!

    Parent
    though from my mangled grammar (none / 0) (#176)
    by otherlisa on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:35:59 PM EST
    you would not guess I had an excellent public school education...

    Jet-lag. More coffee...

    Parent

    Lucky you. No opera where (none / 0) (#188)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:30:20 PM EST
    I went to secondary school.

    Parent
    Off to real life (none / 0) (#129)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:02:45 PM EST
    We are all going to see the new Harry Potter today and I discovered why I couldn't spell this morning.  After reading the hate mail at Kos just now, it seems that if you are upset with Markos you lose your ability to spell.  I think this has everything to do with that person in the hate mail bag too who casts spells.

    Don't forget (none / 0) (#132)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:11:01 PM EST
    your invisibility cloak.

    The official review from my daughter is that it's a fun movie, but strays too far from the book for those Muggles that are cursed with photographic Hogwarts knowledge.

    Parent

    Maybe. (none / 0) (#145)
    by Fabian on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:44:45 PM EST
    As long as the intent is true, any variations may be forgiven.

    I much preferred the original Stardust plot and ending, which used the fight between the three brothers (fighting to become king) and the witch (who would fight anyone who stood between her and the star's heart) as a violent counterpoint to the main story.  It worked in the book quite well, but was unlikely to work in the movie.  The final scene with the enfeebled witch would have left movie audiences scratching their heads.

    Parent

    Spells? (none / 0) (#134)
    by Sumner on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:12:46 PM EST
    They said when they saw [Dakota Fanning], she was dressed in a soft, vintage style white dress, and a dark velvet cape. Her blonde hair was swept into a bun, with pale skin, scarlet lips, and dark eye makeup. They said she had the look of a textbook Red Riding Hood. She had blood red eyes and a steely eeriness about her. Then they say Dakota's eyes lit up, and she turned her head towards Bella (Kristen Stewart). She then, gave a slight, cruel smile, and the tension was palpable. In that miniscule movement, they said they [New Moon] were sold on Dakota. ~~Rotten Tomatoes, quoted at IMDb


    Parent
    Harry Potter=real life? (none / 0) (#136)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:23:58 PM EST
    Not for true Muggles (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:33:09 PM EST
    but perhaps MT is a mudblood.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Sumner on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 01:38:21 PM EST
    Harry Potter is about kids with power - something kids are normally without in their place in society. That's why it is hugely popular and successful, with young people.

    Vampires, such as in Twilight and New Moon, are outside of Society's rules, its norms, and so once again are appealing to young people, as they are thusly, empowered.

    Parent

    Our Founding Fathers (none / 0) (#152)
    by Sumner on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 02:01:59 PM EST
    probably serve as a similer tale for today's adults, we can vicariously imagine their power.

    Parent