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Saturday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 03:42:24 PM EST
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Tom Watson leads the British Open. If he can hold on tomorrow, he will become the oldest winner of a major championship.

In the Tour de France, George Hincapie, a former teammate of Lance Armstrong, who tipped Armstrong off regarding a move by Hincapie's new team in Stage 3, got scr*wed by Armstrong and his team today (Astana set the pace in the peloton for no discernible reason), keeping Hincapie from the glory of the yellow jersey. Hincapie was quite angry about it. (AP, which apparently does not have access to Versus, where Frankie Andreu interviewed a visibly angry Hincapie, who called out Astana by name), falsely reported that Hincapie had no reaction. The Tour will be decided this week in the Alps. My money remains on Contador.

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    Saturday Afternoon Open Thread | 48 comments (48 topical)

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    Lance says it ain't rocket science; but (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:21:16 PM EST
    it is confusing to read.  

    I never cared for Lance (none / 0) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:27:26 PM EST
    And still do not.

    He and Bruyneel have been incredibly duplicitous in their dealings with Contador.

    Hincapie had no right to expect the support of any other team frankly, but he was not supposed to help Armstrong ion Stage 3 either, and Armstrong gladly accepted the help and Bruyneel was happy to see Contador get screwed.

    Next year Bruyneel goes with Armstrong, who will form his own team and Contador will have his own team as well.

    Armstrong said when he came back it was just to promote Live Strong but he chose to ride with Astana and no one asked Contador about it, even though he was the team leader.

    With Leipheimer gone, Armstrong is in a tough spot. He does not have a strong rider supporting him, and Bruyneel's control has to be questioned now.

    It will be a fascinating last week in the Alps.

    I know this all reads like gibberish to you, but if you have Versus (or if not, Versus.com broadcasts the Tour as well), watch the next week. It will be fascinating.

    I am openly rooting for Contador, but I also think he will win.  

    Parent

    Is there any professional sport you do (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:36:04 PM EST
    not follow?  Aren't you afraid your brain capacity will be filled?  Interesting description.  Must watch.

    Parent
    Auto racing (none / 0) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:42:54 PM EST
    bores me.

    Cricket.

    Rodeo.

    Can't think of any others.

    I love sports. Participated when I was in high school and college. Now just a spectator. Though I do play the occasional round of golf and set of tennis.

    Parent

    Test cricket has the suspense of a cycling tour .. (none / 0) (#11)
    by cymro on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:05:24 PM EST
    ... but crammed into 5 days. You should try it sometime.

    Parent
    Where can I watch it? (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:06:12 PM EST


    Parent
    Boooooring (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:33:56 PM EST
    IMO.

    Did you grow up with cricket? I somehow can't imagine anyone being able to watch it unless exposed to it as a youth and having it be the local sport.

    Parent

    Sounds like baseball (none / 0) (#16)
    by andgarden on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:36:17 PM EST
    (BOOOOO, HISSSSS!)

    Parent
    Much Worse (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:44:15 PM EST
    Makes golf look like an fast action sport, imo. Maybe after enough mint juleps it starts to get interesting.

    Parent
    "Auto racing .........bores me(?)" (none / 0) (#43)
    by NYShooter on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 10:11:40 PM EST
    A rich friend of mine owns, and sponsors, several Winston Cup race cars. I told him I didn't see the thrill with Nascar that so many others do. He said, "meet me at (I forgot the name) racetrack Saturday morning and we'll see if you still feel that way by Satuday afternoon."

    Fast forward: Waiting for me, full, race-ready chevy and support team....mechanics, timers, flaggers......, and EMT.

    After quick instructions he told me to do ten laps, as fast as I could drive, all alone, no other cars. Not wanting to be embarrassed, I said a quick prayer, got in, and gunned the sucker, pedal to the metal. Knowing that simply driving fast wouldn't be good enough, I said to myself, "If I'm going to die, let today be the day." I drove faster than I ever did before, faster than any reasonable person had experienced, and beyond any limits I had ever known.

    Finishing my ten laps, I pulled into the pits, proud as a peacock, strolled up to my buddy, and asked, "Well, how did I do?" He looked at his stop watch and said, "pretty good; you drove 82 mph...........slower than the last place finisher at last Friday night's meet.

    Now remember, I was alone on the track, my top speed was 126 mph. Considering "real" drivers go 75 mph faster, inches away from fifty other cars doing close to 200 mph, for up to 500 laps (I was drained stupid after 10) I have a new found respect for the Pro's..........and their "boring" sport.

    Parent

    Boring to watch (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:34:18 AM EST
    If they let us drive, then I am in.

    Parent
    For boring, you can't beat "netball" (none / 0) (#52)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 11:58:20 AM EST
    as played in Australia, I can attest from recent teevee viewing time there.  Basketball without a backboard or body contact.  Reminded me of my then-preteen son's favorite video, "400 NBA Slam Dunks."  Over and over, just sinking buckets with no strategy.  Ugh.

    Ah, but Australian "footy"?  A great game.  Watch for it.

    Parent

    I've never liked Armstrong (none / 0) (#21)
    by lobary on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:02:58 PM EST
    I've been an Armstrong critic for many years, well before much of the general public started to wake up and realize that he's not a hero but just another spoiled megarich athlete who needs his ego stroked at everyone else's expense. It may have something to do with living in Austin for the last couple of decades and suffering through the tiresome hero worship of a guy who participates in a fringe sport most American sports fans just don't give a crap about, or it may have something to do with him ruining my local gym years ago(Neal Pollack explains what I mean), or it may have something to do with him constantly referencing his testicular cancer. Ugh. We know, dude. We've heard it a million times.

    Hey, Lance: STOP USING CANCER AS AN EXCUSE TO BE A GIGANTIC DILLWEED.

    Now please go away and build another huge mansion in your latest new favorite place.

    Parent

    That's some fine hate. (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 11:17:08 AM EST
    The friends and family of people fighting cancer, along with those battling this terrible condition, might just have a different take on Lance, his foundation and the truly wonderful work they do.  

    A very tough cancer day...ShareYesterday at 2:05pm
    There are days here at the LAF where those of us who have walked to the edge and been blessed to have been able to peer over and get another chance understand why we really do what we do. Today was one of those days for me...

    It started when a random call came through the switchboard to my extension, and I spoke to a father in San Antonio. His 16 year old daughter had advanced brain cancer, and he was looking for anyone who could give him help either in finding one last option, or at the very least helping fulfill her last wish to see a redwood tree before she died. I did what I could. An hour later, a great friend of mine who has dedicated her life in nursing to oncology and hospice emailed me to tell me she had recently been diagnosed with Stage 4 Non Hodgkins Lymphoma, and was gripped with fear and uncertainty. I helped as best I could. And then the final punch was the news that a great friend of the Foundation, Sig Anderson, died today of advanced pancreatic cancer.

    Aside from the pooch belly and ever-present bottle of morphine he had with him, you would never have known he was sick, let alone fighting his last fight. He rode a day with us at RAGBRAI just a few weeks ago as a proud member of Team LIVESTRONG, logging 28 miles when he didn't even know what he'd be able to do - here's a short excerpt from his email to us a couple of days after:

    "Back to the ride: Ken and I put in 28 miles Sunday morning, which I was happy with, since my estimate was that I'd only be able to do 10-15 max. But of course, no good deed goes unpunished, and I was back in the hospital the following Monday. In all fairness, my hemoglobin was down around seven again, so I would have needed to come in anyway for a "tune-up", I just probably sped the process a bit. But it was worth every bit of it, since I was able, thanks to all my truly overgenerous friends and family, to raise over $5,100 for the LAF, over three times my initial goal!!! Think how much money we can raise together next year! OK, ok, we'll finish out this year first. The Armstrong people did a fantastic job of coordinating a fairly large effort inside an even larger one, and they should be proud of the job they did. What I'm most proud of though is the level of support and encouragement I received from all of you. I wouldn't have happened otherwise.
    It was a great event for me, I raised a significant amount of money for a most worthy cause..."

    I had dinner with Sig and his lovely wife at the end of RAGBRAI. He proudly showed me his framed copy of our Manifesto signed by the LAF staff, right above the toilet. "I spend a lot of time in here," he joked, "so I wanted something I could read often!" His two young sons showed off their skills of being able to wedge themselves upside down in the door frame, and I was almost overcome with emotion as I knew deep down he would probably never get to see their teenage years, let alone his grandchildren one day. It was the same emotion that I experienced a little over two years ago as I went to say goodbye to my younger brother Robin as his stomach cancer entered into its final stage.

    This is why we do what we do. It's because people like Lance, Doug, myself and all the other cancer survivors who have been given a second chance - and sometimes a third or a fourth! - realize how lucky we are, but that there are oh so many stories like Sig and Robin's that we have to continue the fight. We must continue the fight. Don't wait for a story like this to motivate you to do what you can, do what you can now and help us make a diiference...

    Sig Anderson lived strong.

    Sig was a very close friend of mine and I, for one, am very thankful for the courage, comfort and friendship that he took from Lance and his foundation.  

    Parent

    Spare me, please (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by lobary on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 11:33:16 AM EST
    You assume that anyone who criticizes Armstrong for being an egotistical jackass hasn't lost a friend or family member to cancer. Well, in my case, you are wrong.

    Parent
    I didn't assume anything (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 11:37:35 AM EST
    I was simply pointing out that there is another side to the story.  

    You can hate Lance for whatever reason you care to.  It's easy to hate, harder to find the good in people.

    Parent

    Have to agree with lobary (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 11:53:32 AM EST
    I found your assumptions pretty offensive myself.

    Parent
    Yeah you did (none / 0) (#48)
    by lobary on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 11:50:03 AM EST
    "The friends and family of people fighting cancer, along with those battling this terrible condition, might just have a different take on Lance..."

    And what about those of us who have lost a family member to cancer but don't subscribe to the "Lance is a hero" crap.

    He's using cancer as an excuse to feed his ego, and I find it disgusting. Have you not seen the recent Nike ads? Jeez, Lance, just please go away.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2222407/

    Parent

    "Might just" (none / 0) (#50)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 11:54:33 AM EST
    Do you understand what those words mean?  

    What about you?  Well, my post was about my friend and his experiences.  I was speaking for him, his family and his friends.  I'm sorry it wasn't all about you.  

    Parent

    Seems to me (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 11:56:40 AM EST
    you were making accusations.

    In any event, you like the way Armstrong handles himself.

    Some of us do not.

    Why not just leave it at that?

    Parent

    Now I've figured out who is who. (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:43:05 PM EST
    AST'S Bruyneel says:  Cycling Weekly

    Isn't Armstrong supposed to be making it easier for Contador as Hincapie did in a past tour for Lance?

    Parent

    Yes, but (none / 0) (#36)
    by lobary on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 07:08:11 PM EST
    Armstrong's pre-Tour promises to be a loyal teammate notwithstanding, the likelihood of this happening was on par with Brett Favre agreeing to sign with the Vikings so he could be Sage Rosenfels' backup.

    IOW, not so much.

    Lance is all about Lance. That's all you need to know.

    Parent

    Kind of sad. (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 07:14:38 PM EST


    Parent
    WHite House Art (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 04:39:30 PM EST
    kudos to the Obama's for supporting contemporary art, and particularly focusing on art not made by white men:

    the Obamas have been quietly notifying an array of public institutions, dealers and collectors that they are looking to borrow first-rate art of a more recent vintage to display in the White House with an emphasis on works by black, Hispanic, Asian and female artists

    link

    Radical departure for a modern US president to collect contemporary art, imo, no less the underrated category that they are focusing on.  Something that may make the Guerrilla Girls et al proud.


    What would be nice is . . . (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:39:04 PM EST
    if the WH art collection could go on tour after they revamp it. Wider audience and all :)


    Parent
    For it to go on tour, wouldn't they (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:05:57 PM EST
    need permission of the actual owners of the art. Per the above quote the Obamas are not seeking to purchase the art.

    the Obamas have been quietly notifying an array of public institutions, dealers and collectors that they are looking to borrow first-rate art


    Parent
    Sure (none / 0) (#25)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:11:06 PM EST
    but art tours all the time, or it used to. I remember going to see collections when I was younger with my mom. And we actually had art in the schools back in the day  ;)

    Parent
    LOL You evidently went to better schools (none / 0) (#27)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:22:30 PM EST
    We had art in my schools too but when it was no longer displayed in the classroom, it was hung on the refrigerator door.

    Parent
    lol!~ I meant classes (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:43:07 PM EST


    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:23:03 PM EST
    This is touring, at the WH. Much different from a lender's point of view than sending works to a three or four venue traveling show where one museum is pretty much the same as another.

    Parent
    And school children can go see it (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:44:35 PM EST
    they don't care if one museum is pretty much the same as the other.

    Parent
    Exactly (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:19:49 PM EST
    The lenders are lending it to the WH. Afterwards, the collection can tour if the lenders don't want the stuff back by then.

    I am certain that it will make the WH a lot less stuffy. Not to mention that it will wake up all the stuffy dignitaries and give them a model as to what they should be putting on their walls, floors, and on their lawns.

    Parent

    I would like to see them display (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:34:49 PM EST
    art by artists that are just beginning to be recognized in their field but not yet garnering hugh dollars for their work. That to me would be a real way to support the work of black, Hispanic, Asian and female artists. Helping emerging artists is something I particurly value.

    Parent
    Sure (none / 0) (#40)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 07:57:07 PM EST
    Although the DC establishment seems so far removed from even the well respected contemporary artists, no less the ones who are not white male, that I think this is a huge step forward.

    Young unknown artists, are a whole other level. At best too far ahead of the curve for this sort of thing, at worst a bad gamble.

    Parent

    Although (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:50:32 PM EST
    I think the point is that there is no contemporary art there so it would be a shame to travel it. Although a traveling show would be  great when the Obama's move out. I seriously doubt the Obama's will set a trend for future Presidents, but who knows.

    A catalogue would be great too.

    Parent

    But who's going to see it @ the WH? (none / 0) (#24)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:08:50 PM EST
    not many children. You would think they would have a large enough collection, parts could go on the road. When they move out, who knows if anyone will care {grin}. I say strike while the iron's hot and put together a traveling show to coincide with the new look at the WH :)

    Parent
    Abundance (none / 0) (#41)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 08:24:18 PM EST
    There is plenty of contemporary art in the museums, and galleries, for the children to see.

    I love the idea of imagining the work of David Hammons, Martin Puryear, Coco Fusco, Adrian Piper, William Pope L, or anyone of these artists, in the WH. Many will see the work who do not have the luxury of being schoolchildren.

    The school children can get their fill anywhere. That is up to an imaginative administrator or teacher. There is plenty of great contemporary art within easy reach of any schoolchild.

    Parent

    But Obama attaches a diff meaning (none / 0) (#42)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 09:47:03 PM EST
    to the art, just like the garden. Maybe the option is to explore with the children the artists/art they do get and go to museums. But of course, that would require schools that can do that.

    I donated my complete art book library to a new charter type school here in Brooklyn. Apparently, on the first day of school, those would be the only books they would see in the library on art (design, history, biography etc). I was a child in an era where art was still in the schools and I did not live in an area where art was available to see (that came a bit later after a move. Major dif) I came away with a dif impression of art for quite some time from lack of direct exposure. I guess I would just like to see the exposure be 2 fold, study/books/media and reality. And right now, O has the ability to impact art for the youngsters. I think it's great they are expanding the visuals @ the WH, but would love to see it have a greater reach. It just seems like such a prime opportunity!

    Parent

    Maybe an HD movie, including interviews (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 07:15:23 PM EST
    w/the artists.

    Parent
    I got to see the TdF in person (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by andgarden on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:01:09 PM EST
    on two separate occasions, once near Le Touquet-Paris-Plage in 2001, and again in 2004 in Paris at the end.

    In neither case did I really see much. . .

    Croc mfg. may go bankrupt. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 07:03:33 PM EST
    Too bad for the employees, but what a terrible fashion statement.

    Spam Zapped (none / 0) (#10)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:04:24 PM EST
    Subbing for Andrew Sullivan over at The Atlantic....

    Right on..

    Horrible Story (none / 0) (#14)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:32:01 PM EST
    Shares aspects with the Duke rape case. Sad all around...  Two lives ruined.

    Will the defendant's fans ask to (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:46:42 PM EST
    file an amicus brief?  Looks like incompetency of trial counsel.  

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#39)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 07:53:58 PM EST
    Looks like someone screwed up, but who knows. This seems like the typical black man white girl, all white jury railroad case.

    Hard to tell with all the historical baggage making the defendant look like he was framed.

    Parent

    Sad. Please keep updating (none / 0) (#53)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 12:14:06 PM EST
    I hope that, from what I read here, the judge ends up sanctioned -- and the truth comes out there.

    Parent
    It looked like Garmin/Slipstream (none / 0) (#18)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 05:43:59 PM EST
    was setting the pace the last 3 km.  But I am still bummed Levi had to drop out yesterday morning.  

    Memory Lane (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 06:04:12 PM EST
    President George W. Bush signed into law Thursday the first major piece of legislation of his presidency, a $1.35 trillion tax cut over 10 years.

    Of the six senators begging President Obama to slow down health care reform, four of them -- Mary Landrieu (D-LA), Ben Nelson (D-NE), Olympia Snowe (R-ME), and Susan Collins (R-ME) -- voted for those huge Bush tax cuts.

    David Kurtz TPM

    Saturday Afternoon Open Thread | 48 comments (48 topical)

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