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Define 'Winning'

By TChris, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 12:42:58 PM EST
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John McCain: "This [surge] strategy has succeeded. And we are winning in Iraq."

Today in Iraq:

Iraqi police fatally shot a Kurdish politician in one of Iraq's most volatile provinces as he entered police headquarters Saturday to settle a dispute over the arrest of a colleague, officials said. ...

Tension has been rising between Kurds and Arabs in the north because of Kurdish demands for incorporating the northern oil city of Kirkuk and other areas into their self-ruled region of northern Iraq. Kurdish demands for greater control beyond their autonomous region have risen since the 2003 war, and has caused some Arabs in the region to flee their homes.

What's your definition of "winning," Senator McCain? What's your plan for bringing political stability to Iraq?

< Paul Newman, RIP | Watch Your Language, Sen. McCain >

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    Define 'Winning' | 18 comments (18 topical)

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    winning (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Turkana on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 12:53:44 PM EST
    means less americans killed, and less media coverage. the iraqis, themselves, are irrelevant.

    Except as an excuse for why we have to stay (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by andgarden on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 12:56:51 PM EST
    forever.

    BTW, McCain's full-throated endorsement of the current policy last night could sink him IMO.

    Parent

    i was disappointed (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Turkana on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:04:05 PM EST
    that obama didn't articulate why the surge didn't actually work, but that might have required too much effort, and left too much of an opening for the pundits to do their conventional wisdom routine. same on georgia and iran...

    i don't know how mccain now gets back into the race. the foreign policy debate always was going to be his best shot. that he so decisively lost it in the eyes of the public really surprised me. but they react viscerally, and he really did come off as a mean old man.

    Parent

    Yeah, Obama didn't "articulate"... (none / 0) (#19)
    by Caro on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 05:00:46 AM EST
    ... why the surge didn't work because it would require too much effort.  Or he'd be attacked.  Or... Or... Or...

    Do you folks ever get tired of just making up stuff to excuse Obama's awful stances on issues that are important to progressives?

    Carolyn Kay
    MakeThemAccountable.com

    Parent

    Winning means (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Edger on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:36:56 PM EST
    never having to say they're sorry, and getting to stay for a hundred years.

    Parent
    The question what . . . (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Doc Rock on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:14:40 PM EST
    . . . constitutes "winning" was visibly missing in the debate and the campaign and the war!  

    The mendacious object of invading Iraq was getting their WMD out of their hands and off line.  The true objectives were the demise of Saddam and securing Iraq's oil for Chevron and others with VERY favorable terms for the US and unfavorable to Iraqis.

    The WMD didn't exist, Saddam was executed.  We are paying billions and sacrificing young Americans for oil.  McCain would have as stay as long as it takes to get it!

    Hmm then we better get out of every (1.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Matt in Chicago on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 12:59:17 PM EST
    major city in America... it is a quagmire.

    What kind of nonsense is that? (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:55:34 PM EST
    Pray tell in which major  US city does a major corporation have to hide its offices? September 22, 2008

    But in a sobering reminder of the underlying dangers of doing business here, the company would not disclose the location of its office, and the senior Shell official who announced the gas deal was accompanied by a phalanx of armed guards.

    In major US city do we have checkpoints and in which major US city are there air raids? September 26, 2008

    Which US small town has a battalion of 300 patrolling? Which small town has police ambushed?

    September 24, 2008

     

    Gunmen thought to be affiliated with Al Qaida in Iraq ambushed and killed 27 Iraqi policemen and eight anti-Qaida fighters near Baqouba on Wednesday, police and hospital officials said.

    Among those killed were three high-ranking officers whom gunmen captured and executed, officials said. Four other policemen were injured.
    The ambush took place Wednesday afternoon as an Iraqi police battalion of about 300, along with a group of anti-Qaida fighters, patrolled a village south of Khan Bani Saad in Diyala province, 15 miles south of Baqouba.




    Parent
    hm (none / 0) (#4)
    by connecticut yankee on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:10:41 PM EST
    THis kurdistan stuff is getting worse. Hopefully we can keep the lid until until we leave.  Those people are headed for war.

    The 30-35% of the hardline GOP (none / 0) (#5)
    by hairspray on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:26:19 PM EST
    are really quite nationalistic and think we left Vietnam recipitously. Of course we were there 10 years, but those hardliner cannot see "leaving" as anything but losing.  They loved McCain, I am sure.  I think Obama should have confronted him on this and lost a good opportunity to do so.  McCain likes to talk about cutting spending.  Well even thought Obama mentioned $10B per month in Iraq, I'd like to hear him say what it is doing to our country to continue this way.  McCain has a strong argument in saying that Petraous has warned about the fragility of the situation.  Obama needs to step up to that and lay it out, because it will be an issue the next president has to decide.

    a couple of reasons (none / 0) (#11)
    by of1000Kings on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:59:44 PM EST
    (1) it allows us to say that we haven't had an attack in America since 2001 by 'taking the war to them' instead of allowing them to come here--whether or not we would have had one anyway is irrelevant...

    (2) puts pressure on Iran by having a full force just a border away, and another small force on its other border...perfect alignment for the new Fundamentalist president to 'preemptively' attack Iran....

    that's from a cynics point of view, though...

    Why doesn't America (none / 0) (#12)
    by befuddledvoter on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:49:11 PM EST
    just declare we won and leave?  I agree with the prior poster that if you focus on the defeat of Sadam Hussein and his party, we "won" a long time ago.    

    McCain said we have to "win" (none / 0) (#13)
    by befuddledvoter on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:53:29 PM EST
    and cannot leave becuase he feels sympathy for the soldiers who fought and died there.  Is that any way to run a war and what kind of crazy objective and motivation is that??  So we continue a war with people who have done nothing to us and continue to p$ss away money and American and Iraqi lives because somehow McCain thinks the soldiers who already served there deserve it.  

    I will never understand this. He likened the war in Iraq to what happened in Vietnam, as if we should have continued that war also.  He scares me.

    You really get the sense (none / 0) (#14)
    by Steve M on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 04:02:11 PM EST
    that McCain is still trying to win the last war.

    His answer to the question about "the lessons of Iraq" was so awful.

    Parent

    You know, I used to think (none / 0) (#15)
    by befuddledvoter on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 04:15:57 PM EST
    that McCain's statement "if it takes a hundred years" was taken out of context and was a distortion.  I no longer feel that way at all.  He really did mean it.  

    I doubt that I am alone in saying that McCain scared me.  

    Parent

    Seems like he'd still be fighting in (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 07:08:02 PM EST
    Vietnam, but didn't he support U.S. trade w/Vietnam?

    Parent
    Obama vs. McCain (none / 0) (#16)
    by dutchfox on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 04:44:09 PM EST
    Unfortunately, since the commission that holds these presidential debates is headed by former members of the Democratic and Republican parties, they made sure that Ralph Nader was not there to point out how Obama is just as much of a war hawk as is McCain.

    flip the question (none / 0) (#18)
    by diogenes on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 10:29:13 PM EST
    Does it then follow that the Obama plan for Iraq would be to restore the status quo ante, with Saddam and his sons in charge?  Henry Kissinger would be happy with the idea that we should use strongmen/dictators to control otherwise chaotic countries.

    Define 'Winning' | 18 comments (18 topical)

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