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Why John Edwards' Affair Matters, Edwards Releases Statement

Update: John Edwards has just released this statement. It ends with:

In the course of several campaigns, I started to believe that I was special and became increasingly egocentric and narcissistic. If you want to beat me up -- feel free. You cannot beat me up more than I have already beaten up myself. I have been stripped bare and will now work with everything I have to help my family and others who need my help.

I don't know anyone who thinks having an affair should disqualify one from public office, even the presidency. Certainly no one in my social circles.

The problem with John Edwards is not that he had an affair in 2006, the year he decided to run for the Presidency a second time, but that in 2007 when confronted with it by the media, he denied it.

By denying it, he ensured that if discovered, he would become cast as untruthful, deceitful and someone who can't be trusted. As Jane Hamsher says, had Edwards won the nomination and then this came out, we'd be looking at a McCain presidency.

Edwards put the Democratic party's chances of taking back the White House at risk. Not because of the affair, but because of his dishonesty. [More...]

There's also another nagging factor about this. What if John Edwards, knowing how difficult it would be to win the nomination or general election with a recent affair in one's background, decided against running for President? That would have left only Hillary and Obama vying from day one. Would the Democratic nominee be the same today if the choice all along was Hillary and Obama with no Edwards thrown in?

I'm also curious as to why Elizabeth supported his run so strongly knowing about the affair. She's very smart. She too had to know this would be a disqualifier if it came to light.

I'm angry at John Edwards. I supported him along with Hillary until he dropped out. I could care less that he had an affair. That's between him and his wife. But he put his own desire to be President above the interests of Democrats whose most important goal has been to take back the White House in 2008.

What if he had won the nomination? What if Obama had asked him to be Vice President and he accepted? The ticket would be doomed by his having lied about this affair.

Sex, like drugs, generally doesn't mix with politics. You can get elected if you smoked a little dope or did a line of coke once or twice, provided you admit it and state your regret. But if you lie and get called on it, you may as well have shot heroin. You're history.

John Edwards should have dropped out of the race or come clean on the affair when it first came up in 2007. I have very little sympathy for the risk he took -- it was a risk all Democrats might have had to pay for.

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    John Edwards in 1999 (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:13:36 PM EST
    on the subject of Bill Clinton:

    "I think this President has shown a remarkable disrespect for his office, for the moral dimensions of leadership, for his friends, for his wife, for his precious daughter. It is breathtaking to me the level to which that disrespect has risen,"

    There's a saying about how one judges other is how one will be judged . . . . sheesh!!

    karma is a b*tch (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:25:50 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    lol....a great big ole b*tch....this has (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:28:22 PM EST
    come back to munch on his butt bigtime...

    Parent
    as is google! ;-) (n/t) (5.00 / 0) (#54)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:37:07 PM EST
    I was trying to be sympathetic to Edwards... (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by Marco21 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:35:46 PM EST
    but after reading that quote, screw him. How embarrassing this must be to Elizabeth and their kids.

    John is a clown.

    Parent

    Embarrassing? Sure (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by TruthSayer on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:52:19 PM EST
    Did it break up their marriage? No. Do his kids hate him? Does Chelsea hate Bill.

    I feel like I am reading the Enquire, not TalkLeft.

    Gossip - Gossip - Gossip.

    As I said below politicians and public figure and the general public have affairs all the time. In fact I'd bet someone gossiping on John Edwards right here has had an affair themselves and that could be man or woman.

    Parent

    After reading his statement, (none / 0) (#170)
    by litigatormom on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 10:22:50 PM EST
    I am forced to conclude that Edwards is STILL egocentric and narcissistic.  It's all about him: he's been stripped bare, he's already punished himself enough, he can no longer be 99% truthful -- when the so-called 1% lie comprising the central fact -- blah blah blah.

    That press statement destroyed any sympathy I might otherwise have for him.  For Elizabeth, I have all the sympathy in the world.  The woman is a saint. That is all.

    Parent

    tsk, tsk (5.00 / 0) (#108)
    by sociallybanned on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:15:00 PM EST
    My heart goes out to his wife .  I don't understand how one can be so hypocritical of others having an affair, then turn around and commit it themselves.  The differences I see in Republicans and Democrats when they have affairs are who they are having it with.   Republicans: pages, little boys.  Democrats: other women.

    Parent
    he didnt really mean it (none / 0) (#71)
    by sancho on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:47:23 PM EST
    as i am sure bill knew.

    Parent
    I like the way our new Gov (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:15:15 PM EST
    handled his past. Immediately laid all his cards on the table and within a week, 'poof', all gone. He's down to the business of running the state. Only time I hear his name in the news now is strictly biz.

    Yup, and if... (none / 0) (#12)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:17:27 PM EST
    Edwards had done that before his 2008 run, it'd be a whole different story.  (Not to say that he would have done better, but he wouldn't be earning the enmity he is getting now, as Jeralyn so aptly wrote)

    Parent
    I was SO glad it worked. (none / 0) (#38)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:30:10 PM EST
    I'll admit I was having a few head on desk banging moments! I've been avoiding a lot of news, but what I do see regarding the Gov has been positive even to the extent of showing off his humor and personality.

    As long as they aren't doing anything illegal (rec drugs ok), own up! Beforehand that is! I would be surprised (floored in disbelief) if Edwards didn't know this would be coming down the pike (aka someone knew). Disappointing.

    Parent

    Met him on a class trip (none / 0) (#57)
    by Lysis on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:39:10 PM EST
    Only days after he became gov.  I was with my fifth graders in Albany, touring the capitol.  They got very excited and started taking pictures of him, as he was being followed around by his assistants.  He stopped everything, took pictures with all of them and talked to them about public service and the importance of education.  


    Parent
    Nice, thanks! (none / 0) (#70)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:47:18 PM EST
    He seems to be a good egg. Nice to hear he took a moment for "your" kids :) Those days were a bit crazy to say the least. We'd just had the crain accident also, which I believe was his first public "performance".

    Parent
    Terrific role model in his personal (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:56:56 PM EST
    life for grade school age kids who can't have missed his spilling the beans multiple confessions. Oh, and also I did such and such.

    Parent
    please stay on topic (none / 0) (#95)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:07:22 PM EST
    we close comments at 200. Please stay on topic. This isn't about the Gov. of NY.

    Parent
    TMI, Rielle! TMI! (5.00 / 0) (#41)
    by JoeCHI on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:30:44 PM EST
    Rielle Hunter: "One thing that's great about John Edwards is that he's very open and willing to try things in new ways!"

    Woof!  LOL

    /eyeroll (5.00 / 0) (#76)
    by Faust on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:53:42 PM EST
    that will be played 1000000000000000000 times.

    You could almost hear the jacka$$es on race for the white house snickering like Bevis and Butthead when they played that quote.

    Pretty juvenile imo. But that's to be expected I suppose.

    Parent

    I know... (5.00 / 0) (#90)
    by JoeCHI on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:05:19 PM EST
    ...but I started laughing when I heard it, too!

    Parent
    I didn't laugh (5.00 / 0) (#101)
    by Faust on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:10:37 PM EST
    But I did smirk. So I went and lashed myself with a cat-o-nine-tails.

    Parent
    Wow! (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Bluesage on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:57:45 PM EST
    With all the I's and Me's in that statement, Narcissistic is pretty much a given.

    We may still be looking at a McCain presidency and it's entirely possible that if Edwards had not been in this race tag-teaming with Obama we could be looking at a landslide with Hillary.  

    It seems to me consistency requires (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:02:21 PM EST
    concluding that if Bill Clinton's relationship w/Monica Lewinsky was irrelevant to his ability to be President, John Edwards's private life should be treated the same way.  Both have terrible judgment, but does it impact their ability to properly carry out the duties of the office?

    Yes and no -- (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Exeter on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:07:10 PM EST
    If you do the extramarital affair in such a way that you get caught and it derails your presidency or candidacy, then, yes it does matter.

    Parent
    It never matters (none / 0) (#151)
    by dianem on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:08:00 PM EST
    Politicians are human, just like everybody else. I think that Edwards was honest when he admitted that the attention had gone to his head and he started to feel like he was "special" and didn't need to follow the rules everybody else did. Imagine having crowds of people cheering at you wherever you go, admiring assistants, heads of state honoring you. It must be very exciting. When a woman is attracted to you (and women are attracted to powerful men) ... well, there is a lot of temptation. I think that women in power have similar issues, but the ones who make it to the top usually have more control (they have to). Nonetheless, women in power get caught up, too.

    If anybody should be learning from this, it is Obama, who seems to have let all of the attention really, really go to his head. As they say, the bigger you are the harder you fall.

    Parent

    Not necessarily carry it out (none / 0) (#124)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:28:47 PM EST
    but get elected, yes.

    I think this is the issue that derailed Tester's competition in the Primary....

    BTD may be right that this issue should not matter, but Jeralyn is definitely right that it does.  And, of all the issues to fight, I am not so sure this is one to waste time and money on.....

    Parent

    IF it came out during a primary (none / 0) (#152)
    by dianem on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:08:50 PM EST
    How much impact does a past indiscretion have? Not as much as one revealed at a critical time during an election.

    Parent
    I read comment on one (none / 0) (#171)
    by Xanthe on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 10:27:11 PM EST
    of the Righty blogs - the fact that JE was caught and couldn't carry it off means he wouldn't make a good president or diplomat - shows bad judgment which judgment would carry over to his office.  No finesse.  Okay then.

    Parent
    What bothers me is that he took some support (5.00 / 4) (#93)
    by Angel on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:06:05 PM EST
    away from in the early primaries, primarily due to the healthcare issue.  The entire narrative of the primary campaign would have been different without Edwards.  There would have been only two front-running candidates instead of three.  That would have made a huge difference, IMO, especially in the debates.  Remember when Edwards and Obama ganged up on Hillary?  I'm angry that he did this.  The affair isn't really my business because I am not a party to the marriage.  But what he did knowing the risks and how it ultimately played out in the primaries really angers me.

    "away from HILLARY" (5.00 / 0) (#96)
    by Angel on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:08:05 PM EST
    Both John and Elizabeth Edwards lied. (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by JoeCHI on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:09:49 PM EST
    The problem with John Edwards is not that he had an affair in 2006, the year he decided to run for the Presidency a second time, but that in 2007 when confronted with it by the media, he denied it.

    If Elizabeth knew about the affair in 2006 prior to John announcing his candidacy, then aren't they both guilty of risking the Presidency for the Democrats?

    Yes. (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:20:10 PM EST
    That is putting an awful lot on Elizabeth (2.00 / 0) (#136)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:43:21 PM EST
    If it was over, then it would be easy (for her) to think that it would never matter....

    Parent
    Not true (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by americanincanada on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:10:26 PM EST
    Elizabeth know the political costs. They were both in the wrong.

    Parent
    Condemning Elizabeth just seems (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:18:29 PM EST
    wrong....

    Parent
    That argument could apply to others.... (2.00 / 0) (#158)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:33:26 PM EST
    I don't think it works....

    Parent
    Devil's Advocate here (5.00 / 0) (#160)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:41:30 PM EST
    Bill Clinton was plagued by similar accounts (Flowers, Jones) during his campaign for President, yet he won the WH and did much good.

    You have to have quite an ego to run for pres, as well as a strong sense of optimism.  I can quite see a strong selection bias toward a belief that even lies about adultery could be finessed.

    I'm not sure we can start throwing out candidates on that basis.

    IF after the convention, the Republicans start slamming the country with the Wright video, the Plager video, and high profile reveals on Rezko (and the state of the community Obama was an activist in), or his inexperience, and Obama loses, will people blame Obama for running at all, because he 'should have known' how it would affect the election?

    Where's the line placed, exactly?

    I admit I may not be all that objective in this discussion, bc I never warmed to Edwards during any of his campaigns, he struck me as having something a little too slick about him.  So I don't feel particularly betrayed by his running at all.

    Not at all thrilled about the b*llsh*t toward Clinton in the debates and the eve of Appalachia primaries endorsement of Obama, but that's a different issue.

    Parent

    I have voted for John Edwards three times (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by DemForever on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:14:13 PM EST
    I have repeatedly donated to his campaigns (and Kerry/Edwards)

    And I agree with you completely.

    I want to go vomit.

    now that I think of it (5.00 / 5) (#117)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:21:04 PM EST
    The Iowa caucuses. I was there when the attendees for the candidates who didn't make the quota had to pick among the top three. Had Edwards not been in the race, who knows where his delegates and those of the others in the lower tier would have gone? We could have had a different winner in Iowa. That could have changed a lot of things going forward.

    Parent
    You have my sympathy. (none / 0) (#109)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:15:05 PM EST
    My physicial revulsion (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by DemForever on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:27:27 PM EST
    at the brazeness and selfishness of engaging in this conduct while running for President, puting the whole election at risk in addition to damaging your family, is similar to what I felt when Bill finally made his admissions about him and Monica in 2005/06.  Crazy high risks to your poltiical career, and the agendas of all those who trusted you, by really smart men.  Again, not to mention the harm and embarassment to your family.  

    Maybe Jesse Jackson can counsel Edwards.

    Parent

    Nit pick on Jeralyn's post (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by tree on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:23:52 PM EST
    I could care less that he had an affair.

    ...should read I couldn't care less. Sorry, but its a major pet peeve of mine that so many people get this saying wrong.

     Carry on.

    Has anyone asked (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by delacarpa on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:28:36 PM EST
    why, after confessing to his wife that it is over with this woman he meets her in a hotel. I don't see it as being good for the Democrats, as some will say, here we go again.

    Yup, that has yet be explained, very fishy (none / 0) (#125)
    by DemForever on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:29:57 PM EST
    Possibly (none / 0) (#134)
    by andrys on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:39:46 PM EST
    blackmail?

      Negotiations?

    It's 50-50 to me -- could have been he had a real relationship with her and that it's his baby and he doesn't want Elizabeth to have to deal with this now.  As he says he was acting as a narcissist.

    I do know it's possible to love or be in love with more than one person at a time, even if somewhat shallow in others' eyes.

      But he was irresponsible, and he did lie, though it's my feeling that private affairs are between family members.
    Some will lie in those circumstances because such a thing shouldn't even be asked as if it mattered.  Our best presidents were marital cheats, our worst presidents not.

      I'm not sure I'd expect presidential candidates to have to answer honestly if they'd ever had an affair. What have we come to?

    Parent

    The if only's (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by cawaltz on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:35:01 PM EST
    don't really work because the race and it's dynamic was whether or not folks care to admit it would have been different. Edwards raised the bar on health care for both the other candidates and I remain grateful for that. Personally, I leaned towards Obama in the beginning. It wasn't until I saw Hillary try to run an inclusive campaign that looked out for the interests of not only her supporters but interested in attracting John's that I started relooking at her. So this idea that if he hadn't run all his supporters would have gone to Hillary is as absurd as the belief they all would have gone to Obama.

    So why did he cast his support for Obama? (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by Saul on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:58:14 PM EST
    He knew what Hilary went through.  You think his compassion would be with the female of the candidates.  In the light of this breaking news, I wonder if he would taken back his support for Obama and had given it to Hilary.

    He set the whole party at risk. (5.00 / 0) (#162)
    by weltec2 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 08:20:41 PM EST
    I can just hear the voices conflating the Clintons with the Edwards and howling "See? Aaaall Democrats are like that. You can't trust any of them."

    John Edwards Did Not Put At Risk (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by facta non verba on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 08:56:38 PM EST
    the Democrats'chances of the winning the White House. Nominating Obama will do that.

    I feel most angst for Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by Prabhata on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 08:59:12 PM EST
    At this moment she must be thinking how John's candidacy hurt her chances to be the nominee.

    Pathetic (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by Julie G on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 09:06:23 PM EST
    I could care less that he had an affair  Pathetic.  If he would lie to his wife do you think he would have any problem whatsoever lying to the rest of us?

    I don't know anyone who thinks having an affair should disqualify one from public office, even the presidency. Certainly no one in my social circles.

    Glad I don't hang out in your social circles.  The bar's set pretty low, isn't it? Surely a snake could slither over it.  Pathetic.

    I agree with Julie (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by jccamp on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 09:49:24 PM EST
    although the language re: OP is a little harsh. This is what's important:
    "If he would lie to his wife do you think he would have any problem whatsoever lying to the rest of us?"

    By his own admission, Edwards apparently decided the rules did not apply to him...while he was a 3rd place candidate. What would have been the hubris if he was actually elected? That's a scary thought.

    And the point that he arguably altered the outcome of the primaries, all the while knowing the hammer would fall sooner or later, is completely valid. This is a man so egocentric, he's a menace.

    Too bad about the "what-if's."

    Parent

    Agreed (none / 0) (#173)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 10:42:15 PM EST
    Glad I don't hang out in your social circles.


    Parent
    Once the shock wears off (1.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:09:36 PM EST
    we will begin to delve into the tactics involved, i.e., why Edwards stayed in the race as long as he did (hint: maybe it wasn't because of his heartfelt embrace of the concerns of the common citizen).

    By the way, the kid is almost surely his. You all know this, right? This is far from a weekend or even one-week story, unfortunately.

    false (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:14:41 PM EST
    he's offered to take a paternity test. He says the timing makes it impossible. Until you have facts otherwise, don't post falsehoods here.

    Parent
    Please don't expect us to believe (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:17:55 PM EST
    anything John Edwards might say on this subject.  

    Parent
    Thank you (none / 0) (#31)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:26:49 PM EST
    That's all I'm sayin' here.

    Parent
    Care to put money on it? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:16:23 PM EST
    I've always wanted a semi-influential blog to call my own.

    Parent
    the facts are that (none / 0) (#16)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:19:45 PM EST
    the child seems to have been conceived after Edwards told his wife about the affair.  The most logical conclusion is that the affair ended at the time of, or before, Edwards told his wife.

    To suggest otherwise, with absolutely nothing to go on, well . . . it's Jeralyn's blog . . .

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:26:47 PM EST
    Let's think like lawyers here.

    According to Edwards, the affair ended years ago.  He does not love her.  The child is not his.  He has nothing to do with any payment arrangement that may or may not exist regarding her.  Right?

    In short, he has nothing to do with her whatsoever at this point.  So why would he take the unfathomable risk of surreptitiously visiting her and her baby at a hotel, with the press already on his track?

    There are certainly a number of possible explanations.  But I'd be hard-pressed to deny that the most likely explanation is that the baby is, in fact, his.

    Parent

    Exactly. Strong circumstantial evidence (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:38:38 PM EST
    that requires DNA to deny it.  If he so wishes.  Otherwise, we can only wonder why he was in the hotel for hours in the wee hours with someone with whom he ended the affair so long ago and/or with someone who is not his child.


    Parent
    Years ago?! (none / 0) (#49)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:33:40 PM EST
    uh, 2006 ain't years ago  ;)

    And yes, I'm just as jaded as you, lol!~

    Parent

    Yes, let's think like lawyers some more. (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:35:19 PM EST
    Why hasn't Ms. Hunter moved to establish paternity?  $$$

    Parent
    That is a great point (none / 0) (#111)
    by Exeter on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:17:03 PM EST
    If Rielle Hunter is somehow blackmailing Edwards, about the affair with a love child in the balance, it would make alot of sense out of all this.

    Parent
    That's certainly the simplest reason (none / 0) (#64)
    by RalphB on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:44:27 PM EST
    and probably the right one.

    I don't really understand why he didn't just keep hie mouth shut or say no comment now, instead of giving some interview to ABC.  What's to gain from it, unless he's dying for some publicity?

    Parent

    Gosh, he's not narcissistic and (none / 0) (#65)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:45:22 PM EST
    craving attention is he?

    Parent
    Go ahead and beat me up if you like. (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:53:47 PM EST
    God knows no one has berated me more than I've berated myself.  Poor, poor me.

    Parent
    No one (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:37:12 PM EST
    has done more for beating up John Edwards than...

    Parent
    Yes ... that particular paragraph was (none / 0) (#122)
    by bridget on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:28:33 PM EST
    well, too pathetic for words

    the whole statement was way over the top IMO

    Guess this sort of thing will appeal to some people. Not me, however.

    Parent

    I knew (none / 0) (#172)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 10:30:50 PM EST
    there was a Linda Ronstadt song I was looking for, I think that's it.

    Parent
    Yeah, I know whose blog it is (none / 0) (#18)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:22:11 PM EST
    And I'm commenting on it, as I assume said owner intends judging by the frequent posts on current events, all inviting people to comment.

    Problem?

    So... you're going with the "Edwards is telling the truth about this part of the story he's been lying about for months" angle? OK.

    Parent

    no . . . (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:29:53 PM EST
    just because someone's a liar and has no credibility, doesn't mean that some of the stuff he says is false.  If Bush told me that the sky is blue, or if FoxNews tells me that Bush is in Beijing right now, I actually would believe it.

    Extraordinary claims generally need something more than a just "well, he' a liar anyway . . . "

    Just sayin' . . .

    Parent

    OK. Now ask yourself: (none / 0) (#47)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:32:13 PM EST
    Do you honestly, truly believe Edwards is now telling the whole truth about this, and his version of the narrative is 100 percent correct?

    I don't expect an answer since it's not my place to hold you accountable for anything. Just sayin', that's all.

    Parent

    you are blog-clogging now (none / 0) (#51)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:34:51 PM EST
    you have made that point three or four points. Unless it becomes a fact that he is the father,move on. Further repetition of your speculation will be deleted.

    Parent
    Just sayin' (none / 0) (#78)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:54:15 PM EST
    you asserted as unquestionable fact above something you have absolutely no way of knowing.

    Just sayin'.

    Parent

    Um (none / 0) (#6)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:15:15 PM EST
    What gives the story continued viability?  Okay, next month they find out that he really is the father.  Who really cares at that point?  He's already John Edwards, Disgraced Former Presidential Candidate.  The papers are really going to go crazy over the news that an irrelevant person is even more disgraced?

    Parent
    Um, what? (1.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:16:40 PM EST
    Where have you been?

    Parent
    Just asking (none / 0) (#17)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:20:59 PM EST
    I have no reason to think there will be another media frenzy over every little detail of this story that emerges weeks or months from now.  If you do, make your case, don't just resort to glib rhetorical questions.

    Parent
    Now I'm just confused (1.00 / 0) (#39)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:30:39 PM EST
    I responded but didn't actually respond?

    This is what I get for frequenting a lawyers' blog, I guess.

    I strongly disagree (none / 0) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:12:35 PM EST
    Do you mind if I post a reply to this post?

    The short version (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:17:39 PM EST
    Edwards' mistake was accepting the idea that the question itself was acceptable.

    Your post accepts the premise that the question itself was proper.

    Parent

    Edwards embraced the question, (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:18:56 PM EST
    frankly. He used the opportunity to take a veiled potshot at the Clintons.

    Parent
    THAT was his mistake (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:23:55 PM EST
    Indeed (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:24:10 PM EST
    And that itself is disgraceful. If he had answered as Obama or Clinton did, there would be no hypocrisy issue. (Though he might have said other similar things in the 1990s about WJC himself.)

    I still don't feel that I have a right to know about this, or that anyone else in public should ask.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:22:57 PM EST
    I imagine the thinking was something like "if this comes out, I'm screwed either way."

    I mean, not to be crass, but Elizabeth herself acknowledged that the basic narrative of the campaign was a guy standing bravely by his sick wife.  The revelation of an affair would have been much more damaging to Edwards than to the average politician.

    Parent

    Bingo (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:26:07 PM EST
    and that's why, Steve, I continue to question every aspect of the current narrative, including the paternity question and the claim that Elizabeth knew of the affair long ago.

    Parent
    I strongly disagree (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:33:18 PM EST
    John Edwards did not run as the "faithful husband."

    He ran as "the populist."

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:38:23 PM EST
    That was of course the political narrative, but the personal narrative had as much to do with Elizabeth's situation as anything.

    Parent
    Not true (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:55:13 PM EST
    I have video of him calling Elizabeth "the love of my life for 30 years." in Iowa. He made his marriage a big part of the campaign.

    Of course, she could be the love of his life for 30 years and he could have an affair while still being in love with her, but it's not honest to say that while denying he had an affair.

    Parent

    So true. Seconded again. (none / 0) (#133)
    by bridget on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:39:03 PM EST
    Didn't you watch C-Span coverage (none / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:43:30 PM EST
    of the Harkins' steak fry in Indianola, IA.  My wife Elizabeth, who is in the audience today, yadda, yadda, yadda.

    Parent
    Exactly!!! (none / 0) (#79)
    by TruthSayer on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:54:54 PM EST
    welcome to the real world (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:25:08 PM EST
    The question is acceptable to the American people. That you or I or Edwards think it shouldn't be is irrelevant. Whether he should have been asked or not, he was asked and he lied. The question doesn't matter. The response does.

    Parent
    Jeralyn, I'm much more troubled (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:30:46 PM EST
    by Obama's FISA vote in view of his promise to support a filibuster against the revise than I am about Edwards' duplicity here.  

    Parent
    Exactly (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:43:53 PM EST
    Lies about issues don't get as much traffic as lies about affairs.

    Parent
    not the subject here (none / 0) (#82)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:56:06 PM EST
    This has nothing to do with Obama and you may not change the subject. Save it for an open thread later tonight.

    Parent
    Excuse me (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:31:20 PM EST
    If the "real world" is our measure of right and wrong, then why in hell does anyone disagree with anything that is what the "real world" thinks? In 2002, going to war with Iraq was completely wrong. But the "real world" said otherwise.

    That is not a basis for a principle on whether this SHOULD be relevant.

    Parent

    Not our measure of wrong or right (none / 0) (#74)
    by rilkefan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:49:43 PM EST
    Our measure of politically suicidal with large-scale repercussions for the party or not.  (In the Edwards case.  In the Iraq war case, the expedient long term real-world position coincided with the right one.)

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#86)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:00:02 PM EST
    If Edwards said that the issue was irrelevant and he  would not answer it ever, where is there to go with that?

    Hell, why answer it now?  

    Parent

    no one is arguing with you (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:05:38 PM EST
    we all agree it's the lie, not the affair.

    Parent
    There is smelling blood and investigating (5.00 / 0) (#98)
    by rilkefan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:09:08 PM EST
    I.e. damage control, as before.

    But your comment was a question about morals and expediency.  We all have to decide how to compromise.  But there's no conflict in Jeralyn's point - she says it was dumb to do x in the current environment, regardless of morality (since no one sees his affair as a good thing in principle).

    Parent

    Absolutely (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by MichaelGale on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:18:04 PM EST
    that would be about our animus toward him and infidelity and our own experiences. As for being dishonest, Edward's has a point, that he thought he was powerful enough in his own mind to think the affair would not be exposed. Think how crazy this thinking is; he attempted another visit.

    Why tell?  He got caught, cornered, exposed. I think part of him is glad it has finally ended.

    My anger is the possibility that the election would have been different if he had not lied. If anything, when everyone cools down, that is the issue here.


    Parent

    Maybe because he holds those (none / 0) (#87)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:02:20 PM EST
    values and feels guilty.

    Parent
    And the lie may have changed (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:40:13 PM EST
    what happens to our world.  Clinton would have been the nominee.

    Parent
    At least now Edwards will take the blame (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:25:35 PM EST
    for Obama's loss instead of Hillary.

    CBC is showing the Opening Ceremony - no political advertising...yeah!!! It's a beautiful show.


    Parent

    Absolutely. Seconded. (none / 0) (#132)
    by bridget on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:37:13 PM EST
    I long for a day (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:42:47 PM EST
    when politics is about policy.

    Parent
    We can debate all night about whether (5.00 / 0) (#119)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:24:35 PM EST
    the question was proper, but John Edwards' mistake was deciding to cheat on his wife.  

    Parent
    He should have told them to f*ck off (none / 0) (#69)
    by RalphB on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:47:16 PM EST
    or just kept his mouth shut.  No reason whatsoever to be giving interviews or any of this junk.

    Parent
    fowler (none / 0) (#166)
    by jedimom on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 09:02:50 PM EST
    yesterday Don Fowler SC former DNC Chair and RBC member said Edwards needed to deny straight out the NE story, I think this led to the statement by Edwqards, and I am sure they cleared releasingit now when Obama was out of town and before the convention began , Elizabeth is speaking at the convention isnt she?

    from mcclatchy:

    http://tinyurl.com/66hswd

    "If there is not an explanation that's satisfactory, acceptable and meets high moral standards, the answer is 'no,' he would not be a prime candidate to make a major address to the convention," said Don Fowler, a former Democratic National Committee chair.....
    "He absolutely does have to (resolve it). If it's not true, he has to issue a stronger denial," said Gary Pearce, the Democratic strategist who ran Edwards' 1998 Senate race. "It's a very damaging thing. ......

    Parent

    speaking for you only (none / 0) (#8)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:15:38 PM EST
    go right ahead. Just link to mine.

    Parent
    I hadn't.... (none / 0) (#4)
    by Moishele on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:14:25 PM EST
    thought about some of the points you bring up, but they certainly add many other sides to the story. I can only guess the sirens song of the presidency was too strong for Edwards to ignore, and that Elizabeth was either so far in denial or so far passed caring that she didn't think Americans would care either.

    It's a sad day all around.  

    I nominate (none / 0) (#20)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:23:29 PM EST
    this for "Post Most Likely To Be Deleted."

    I deleted it (none / 0) (#36)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:29:40 PM EST
    and my response to it.

    Parent
    Thank you (none / 0) (#44)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:31:41 PM EST
    for not deleting one of my few demonstrably correct posts! :)

    Parent
    I think the reaction is (none / 0) (#28)
    by TruthSayer on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:26:37 PM EST
    overblown. That the discovery of his affair would have cost the election is pure speculation. In fact in my opinion and given the history of public figures it would not have mattered.

    Bill Clinton survived public scrutiny. His wife was not chastised for still being married to him and almost became president. Giuliani, Gingrich,  Ted Kennedy, LA mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, and on and on. Even prominent women in the public eye have survived affairs. Barbra Walters in not taking ahit for her expose'.

    Is Edwards having an affair news? Sure. Can anyone say for sure given some of the people I mentioned and more, and given the times we live in where affairs are not uncommon in the general public that Edwards would have lost the election because of an affair? Absolutely not!!!

    Except the Edwards marriage (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:29:22 PM EST
    was part of the candidate's whole campaign narrative, i.e., I bravely stood by my wife's side while she battled cancer so that the two of us could bring you better health care, etc.

    Parent
    And he did (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by TruthSayer on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:34:39 PM EST
    stand by her side and she by his post-affair.

    Private matter - end of story.

    Parent

    no one said it would have (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:30:43 PM EST
    cost, we said it could have cost. To have taken that risk is simply unacceptable.

    Parent
    Read what your wrote (none / 0) (#66)
    by TruthSayer on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:45:47 PM EST
    he ensured that if discovered, he would become cast as untruthful, deceitful and someone who can't be trusted.

    As Jane Hamsher says, had Edwards won the nomination and then this came out, we'd be looking at a McCain presidency.

    You didn't disagree with Jane. In fact you used her quote preceded by "As Jane says", a phrase common when one wants to use someone else's words to help make or validate a point for them.

    And also:

    She too had to know this would be a disqualifier if it came to light.

    So that is the way I read it. If that is not what you meant sorry but it was not clear to me.


    Parent

    no, I said (none / 0) (#99)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:09:15 PM EST
    "had Edwards won the nomination and then this came out,". The rest is premised on that.

    Parent
    Yes I know (none / 0) (#159)
    by TruthSayer on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:38:52 PM EST
    That is what I was addressing in my original post. As were you. As was Jane.

    I don't see the 'what if' scenario of Edwards losing to McCain in that situation because others, some who I mentioned, survived affairs continue on in politics.

    Parent

    Telling the truth wouldn't have made a difference (none / 0) (#61)
    by mrmobi on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:43:11 PM EST
    The Edwards' marriage was part of the candidate's whole campaign narrative, i.e., I bravely stood by my wife's side while she battled cancer so that the two of us could bring you better health care, etc.

    If Edwards had admitted he had an affair, his campaign would have been over at that point. I agree with you, Jeralyn, that it shouldn't matter, but given the quote above, I don't see any way he could have continued. I never supported him, but I was grateful for his emphasis on helping the poor, and I'm deeply disappointed and sad for his marvelous wife, who shouldn't have to be dealing with this kind of crap, given her medical condition.

    I think (none / 0) (#68)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:46:30 PM EST
    the conflict between Russia and Georgia (our ally) is going to have a heckuva greater impact on who will be elected than this does.

    Has Obama released a statement (none / 0) (#72)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:48:00 PM EST
    yet?

    Parent
    Should he both renounce & (none / 0) (#104)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:13:24 PM EST
    reject?

    Parent
    Here (none / 0) (#113)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:17:45 PM EST
    is what Politico has to say about the two candidates' positions:

    Link

    McCain stood before the press to make his statement.  I don't know if Obama has or not.

    Parent

    He should say that (none / 0) (#130)
    by DemForever on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:35:19 PM EST
    that he is saddenend and disappointed, and express best wis to Elizabeth and the kids

    Parent
    Agreed. Something fishy here. (none / 0) (#73)
    by masslib on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:49:33 PM EST
    Jeralyn doesn't think the kid is his.  i do.  I don't think the affair would have been a deal breaker, but a kid?  So the question is what was a guy who had no chance of becoming President but a big chance of being competitive in at least two of the early primaries doing in those early contests?  Of course that is the question only if the kid is his.

    Grover Cleveland had an illegitimate kid (none / 0) (#103)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:13:10 PM EST
    admitted it during the campaign and won. Anyone remember, the Repbublicans went after him with "Ma, Ma, Where's my pa? Went to Washington, ha, ha, ha."

    Story here.

    Parent

    Before women had the right to vote? (5.00 / 0) (#135)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:40:23 PM EST
    It's very unfortunate. John Edwards has become this story, and it will be difficult for him to overcome it.

    One really has to wonder what prompted the Enquirer to seek him out, and why his infidelity would be of interest. Someone needed a distraction?


    Parent

    Yeah, that was then this is now. (none / 0) (#106)
    by masslib on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:14:15 PM EST
    Shenanigans in the office (2.00 / 0) (#145)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:57:25 PM EST
    have decreased since more women have entered the workforce.....

    The possibility of a sexual harassment lawsuit has made a difference....

    The boys will be boys code is now largely gone from the workplace....at least here in California....

    Parent

    No, please don't go there (none / 0) (#141)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:50:15 PM EST
    I doubt that a candidate would do this to benefit another candidate....Occam's razor says it was about Edwards believing it would not be an issue.....Someone else had said he was the father.....The story was dead until he got caught at the Beverly Hills hotel--well after he had dropped out.

    Please don't turn this into an anti-Hillary conspiracy....That makes this whole mess even more hurtful and demeaning to Elizabeth...

    Parent

    We have to get over this (none / 0) (#83)
    by dianem on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:56:44 PM EST
    Lying about politics, war, policies...Okay.  Lying about private matters.. not okay. I don't really care if Edwards had an affair. I suppose I care if this really has killed his political career, but I'm not sure that it has. He has good timing, and he made a very good apology. He didn't need to come out with this right now. If he really isn't that baby's father, then he could have had the test and come out of this smelling like roses. But he came clean at a good time. People will notice and remember, but it's a long time until the next primary. People tend to be more forgiving of people who confess instead of getting caught.

    It does appear he was caught (2.00 / 0) (#110)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:15:54 PM EST
    by National Enquirer photographers at a hotel in Beverly Hills....

    Sad, truly sad.

    Parent

    But that story only holds water... (none / 0) (#150)
    by dianem on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:03:30 PM EST
    ...if he was actually visiting the mother of his baby. That's what the story was all about - his having fathered a child by his mistress. All he needed to do to end the story was to take a paternity test. Assuming the woman cooperated, which there is a good chance of, the affair could have been covered up.

    A lot depends on her, now. If she is responsible and keeps the details to herself, or confirms his story that he was simply meeting her to talk to her about not speaking to the press, then this might yet turn out okay. If she goes celebrity, then it will get bigger. We'll see.

    Parent

    Just talking to her about not talking (none / 0) (#161)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:56:21 PM EST
    to the press?  Doesn't pass the straight face test.

    Parent
    Actually, it does (none / 0) (#168)
    by dianem on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 09:15:12 PM EST
    It's the kind of thing you do in person, not over the phone. It's likely that he was trying to get her assurance that she wouldn't talk to the press. It would be foolish for him to come out right after she did. He may have been hoping to talk her into not saying anything or developing a cover story.

    Parent
    There must be a smoking gun (none / 0) (#92)
    by Exeter on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:05:44 PM EST
    Otherwise he would have kept his mouth shut.  My suspicion is that the poor child in the middle of this is, in fact, his child and that is an attempt on his part to somehow muddy the waters about paternity of the child.

    Dates (none / 0) (#97)
    by NealB on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:08:38 PM EST
    • Edwards met the woman in 2006 and hired her for his upcoming campaign.
    • He declared his candidacy right after Christmas 2006.
    • He ended "the affair" with the woman prior to June, 2007.
    • June 2007: baby was concieved.
    • Tabloid newspaper reported the affair on October 11, 2007.
    • After looking like a front-runner for a while in 2007, he dropped out on Jan 30, 2008.
    • Baby was born on Feb 27th, a month later.
    • He visited the woman in Beverly Hills in July, 2008.

    So, John Edwards had some sort of relationship with the woman that he now admits was "an affair" in 2006, but the National Enquirer didn't report it until after she was impregnated in June of 2007. Did the National Enquirer pay her to get pregnant?

    Give me a break, parsimony (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by nulee on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:55:29 PM EST
    would say that he never really ended it and she did get pregnant by him, the dates are just too close.  If it was so 'over' what the hell was he doing in the hotel recently if not visiting his lover and child?

    Parent
    Is the evil mind of Rove (none / 0) (#107)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:14:26 PM EST
    involved here?  

    Parent
    For what purpose? (none / 0) (#115)
    by cmugirl on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:19:53 PM EST
    So, another man came out saying (none / 0) (#143)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:54:20 PM EST
    he is the father.

    Rielle could put this to rest by saying who the father is.

    He is a former politician, so what is the point of this news? Just to hurt people for the sake of hurting them? Someone was behind this.


    Parent

    Should Hunter and/or Edwards sell the (none / 0) (#102)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:11:08 PM EST
    child's photos and donate the money to John's eradication of poverty foundation?

    No (none / 0) (#114)
    by cmugirl on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:17:59 PM EST
    Leave the baby out of this.  She can't help who are parents are (or aren't).

    Parent
    Yes, exactly but I don't believe we know that (none / 0) (#128)
    by Salt on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:34:41 PM EST
    Elizabeth knew do we? And this part of his statement is very odd ...I started to believe that I was special and became increasingly egocentric and narcissistic  ..

    I don't find that part of the statement (none / 0) (#138)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:45:48 PM EST
    odd.  Bill Clinton in the hall by the oval office.  I'm invincible.  

    Parent
    that's unfortunate. (none / 0) (#137)
    by cpinva on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:45:13 PM EST
    what i'd really like is for one of them to come out, admit to an affair, say they enjoyed it tremendously, no regrets at all, it's ongoing, their spouse doesn't have a problem with it and its no one else's business.

    what do you think jeralyn, would that fly? lol

    of course, if you want to talk narcissim, let's talk sen. mccain. his current wife is the consequence of an affair. remember, he dumped his first wife, after returning home and discovering she was a tad different than when he'd left (and i don't mean she gained a few lbs.), after having started an affair with his current wife.

    to my knowledge, sen. mccain has never expressed one iota of remorse for his callous indifference. it doesn't seem to have adversely impacted his re-election to the senate.

    that's not the point - he didn't lie (none / 0) (#147)
    by nulee on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:58:21 PM EST
    about the affair while running for president.  It is integrity not fidelity that is on the chopping block.

    Probably why Newt didn't run this cycle, he was having a big old affair all during the Clinton impeachment brouhaha, while his wife was dying of cancer.  Hmm... sound familiar?

    Parent

    Great post Jeralyn, you nailed it. (none / 0) (#139)
    by nulee on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:46:51 PM EST
    this is why I come to this site.

    Edwards was (none / 0) (#140)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:48:28 PM EST
    very shrewd to release the info on a Friday, the opening day of the olympics.  This will be forgotten by most Americans by Sunday.

    Au contraire, I think he is going to (5.00 / 0) (#148)
    by nulee on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:00:02 PM EST
    steal lots of thunder from the Olympics.

    Parent
    Wow. (none / 0) (#156)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:18:40 PM EST
    You are really transparent here.

    Just sayin'.

    Parent

    That's a key (none / 0) (#142)
    by Andy08 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:53:06 PM EST
    question: why did Elizabeth went along with it...

    Agree w/ your condemnation on the whole, but the (none / 0) (#149)
    by jawbone on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:02:27 PM EST
    sad thing is that this does not apply to Really Big Political Lies that do things like, oh, get us into illegal wars.

    "...if you lie and get called on it, you may as well have shot heroin. You're history."

    If you're BushCo, you're reelected and protected by not only the MCM* but the Democratic leadership as well. Impeachment is off the table.

    Alas.

    *MCM--Mainstream Corporate Media


    Give that man a shovel (none / 0) (#163)
    by Redshoes on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 08:41:22 PM EST
    As additional details get released it just gets worse and worse and none of John Edwards comments seem particularly helpful or healing.  

    I'm with the crowd who hopes all candidates relearn the lesson of old, "it's not the deed, it's the lie and the coverup"  (or rather the inept attempt since the coverup never seems very effective).

    Also at this stage willing to endorse the candidate who advocates what should be a stock response.  "What goes on between 2 consenting adults is a private matter.  I have no further comment."

    Weeeelll... (none / 0) (#174)
    by NWHiker on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 11:33:43 PM EST
    I actually don't care that he had an affair: that is none of my business and between his and Elisabeth. I'm betting, btw, that knowing he's earned the scorn of those of us who think that she's a  very special person has got to hurt.

    What ticks me off is that he lied in October. Yeah, I agree, the question should never have been asked, but it was. He should have said that yes, he had, it was over and private matter between consenting adults or whatever the current lingo is. Personally? Over and done with and I'd have sent him an other donation.

    But he didn't. He chose to stay in the race. He took support, I'm sure, from Clinton. He ganged up on her with Obama. My tinfoil hatted self thinks Axelrod had the dirt and used it. My more logical self is angry that he exacted trust from those of us who beleived in him, sent him $$, and caucaused for him. I stood up in front of my neighbours, even though he'd dropped out of the race and refused to change my vote, because I thought he was a populist blah blah blah. I'd have stood up for him the same way knowing he'd had an affair, again, not my business.... but finding out, after the fact that he'd lied... hurts.

    We knew about Genefer (sp?) Flowers. We knew what we were getting when we elected Clinton. I don't care.

    I"m just angry that, in 2008, post Gary Hart, post Bill Clinton, while we in the midst of an important election, John Edwards couldn't find in in himself to either tell the truth or drop out of the race.

    Considering the time right before Super Tuesday, (none / 0) (#175)
    by BronxFem on Sat Aug 09, 2008 at 11:54:58 AM EST
    and the caucuses right after it, I believe that an argument could be made that Edwards' candidacy in 2008 cost Hillary hers.  How many votes would Hillary have received if Edwards had not been a candidate at all?

    The Real Problems with Edwards (none / 0) (#177)
    by WakeLtd on Sat Aug 09, 2008 at 03:32:56 PM EST
    Getting beyond the moral ourage, genuine or feigned, and the argument over being misled, or not, about "a perfect marriage", or the alleged bid for sympathy over a spouse battling cancer, these,to me, are the real problems that John Edwards presented to his supporters:

    1. When you build a campaign team for a Presidental run, you are bringing in people who are going to work  hard for you, many long hours, and are going to put their own good names on the line in support of your candidacy. They deserve to know, upfront, if there is anything in your past that could become an issue, if disclosed. It is only fair to them, so they are making an informed decision.

    2. Donors put up some significant amounts for the Edwards candidacy. Again, full disclosure is required. If there is something that, fairly or unfairly, could derail your candidacy, they have a right to know. They can decide if a personal lapse affects their decision to support you or not. If fact, it may not have deterred many, had they known, but it would have been out there.

    3. Supporters are often the most fervent front-line soldiers for any candidate, even if they have not contributed a dime. They believe in a candidate. They will argue, cajole, urge, and explain to others why their candidate is the best choice. They put their hearts & souls into support on an almost 24/7 basis. Again, they deserved to know the truth as early as possible.

    A lot of people put of lot of themselves into supporting a candidate. To say that something is "personal", and no one's business is unrealistic and actually harmful in the real world of Presidential political campaigns.

    Early disclosure could have helped or hurt Edwards. As it is, his campaign did not actually do all that well anyway.

    A friend jokingly refers to his own (none / 0) (#178)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 09, 2008 at 03:36:36 PM EST
    "Roledex of sin."  Is this what you propose?  

    Parent