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The Candidates' Views on Infidelity

In December, 2007, Katie Couric interviewed all of the Democratic and Republican candidates about their views on infidelity and whether they thought it should disqualify a candidate from being President.

Bill Richardson:

I don't think so. I think that, you know, infidelity is ... a serious problem in any marriage. But, you know, everybody sins. And it's whether you're forgiven, whether you forgive yourself, whether you have faith in God. You know, perfection ... is something that politicians, they should not stand themselves for perfection. Nobody's perfect.

Barack Obama: [More....]

Well, I ... you know, I do think that public morality ... and private morality are not sum -- you know, or not equivalent. You know, we -- some of our greatest presidents haven't always been terrific husbands. And some who have been wonderful husbands have been rotten presidents.

So, you know, I think that other countries have typically taken a little more casual on approach when it comes to the personal lives ... of elected officials. And I think that there has to be some space for privacy. I will say this.

I do think that I'm very proud of the relationship I've got with Michelle, and the work and the value that I've put into it. And I hope it does say something about my character, the strength of my marriage. But, you know ... if I was -- had a wonderful marriage but didn't have good ideas in terms of providing health care for every American or repairing the damage that's been done to our foreign policy by George Bush, then my marriage alone shouldn't qualify me ... for being president.

Hillary Clinton:

Well, I can certainly understand why some people would feel that way, and ... that is their perfect right to do so. But I think ... would be a tough standard for most of American history to be able to meet, when we look at people who have made a big difference in our country.

I think there's more to someone's honor and integrity, and to their public service. I think sometimes we confuse the private and the public in ways that are not necessarily useful. So, of course, it's a deeply personal matter that I take personally. But I think on the public stage, there are a number of people who have represented our country, led our country, accomplished great achievements on behalf of our country who might have some challenges in their personal life, but have made a great contribution.

John Edwards:

Edwards: Of course. I mean, for a lot of Americans, including the family that I grew up with ... it's fundamental to how you judge people and human character: Whether you keep your word, whether you keep what is your ultimate word, which is that you love your spouse, and you'll stay with them.

Couric: Do you think ... what about people who use that as a way to evaluate a candidate? In other words, there have been a number of fine presidents according to some analysts ...

Edwards: Right.

Couric: ... who have certainly not been sort of exhibited the greatest moral character ...

Edwards: Right.

Couric: ... when it comes to infidelity ...

Edwards: Right.

Couric: I guess is what I'm getting at.

Edwards: Yes.

Couric: So how important do you think it is in the grand scheme of things?

Edwards: I think the most important qualities in a president in today's world are trustworthiness, sincerity, honesty, strength of leadership. And certainly that goes to a part of that. It's not the whole thing. But it goes to a part of it.

Couric: So you think it's an appropriate way to judge a candidate?

Edwards: Yeah. But I don't think it's controlling. I mean, I think that, as you point out, there have been American presidents that at least according to the ... stories we've all heard, that were not faithful, that were in fact good presidents. So I don't think it controls the issue. But I think it's certain ... something reasonable for people to consider.

< McCain's Lobbyist Problem | Why John Edwards' Affair Matters, Edwards Releases Statement >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Well we know one thing (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Saul on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:27:49 PM EST
    Edwards is not on Obama's short list for VP

    or AG or Sec'y of Whatever, or S. Ct. Justice (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by magster on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:52:57 PM EST
    Isn't right or fair, but his political career is over in the short term, and his earlier lack of candor has deprived the country of an otherwise effective progressive voice for economic justice.

    Parent
    Edwards made those comments (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by frankly0 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:29:44 PM EST
    after he had himself been unfaithful?

    Man, that's just not good.

    Protesting way too much.

    John Edwards .... the original netroot's favorite (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by bridget on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:15:38 PM EST
    so the above didn't surprise me at all. Not one bit. Plus the stuff the mainstream media, pols, pundits, and bloggers decided to keep mum about ... while Bill Clinton was impeached over a "lie" in a disposition. Why is that?

    Mr. Morality and Honesty ran the most nasty negative primary 2008 campaign ONLY against rival Dem Hillary Clinton. Why is that?

    Besides Few candidates have made worse judgements in their short political career than John Edwards who didn't have time to even think about his Iraq vote while running for president in 2004 and then while campaigning in the GE as VP. Then finally late 2005 he took some time out of his busy life to think about it... and decided to run for president again ... on the BIG EXCUSE.

    Calgon ... take me away!

    Parent

    oops ... please read deposition (none / 0) (#56)
    by bridget on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:21:19 PM EST
    nothing wrong with Pres. Clinton's disposition ;-)

    Parent
    And just think...they used to say, (none / 0) (#28)
    by Shainzona on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:52:49 PM EST
    "The lady doth protest too much"!

    Parent
    Actually, I thought (none / 0) (#162)
    by weltec2 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 08:27:00 PM EST
    Katie was having a very difficult time getting Edwards to say anything.

    Parent
    Ahem.. Do I ever feel vindicated. (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:31:33 PM EST
    Edwards always came across as a dishonest sleazeball to me, even though his politics were agreeable to me.


    And I feel completely un-vindicated.. (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by rjarnold on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:07:52 PM EST
    as someone who vouched for his integrity back in November.

    Parent
    Had a brief encounter with a WJC Cabinet member... (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by RonK Seattle on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:27:57 PM EST
    ... the day the walls came tumbling down around the Lewinsky affair.  One of those who vouched for Bill's denials most robustly.

    It was no small matter, and it had to hurt, but neither was it the biggest bogey in the battlespace.

    Parent

    How do you feel about FDR? (5.00 / 3) (#136)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:39:53 PM EST
    President Clinton?  Thomas Jefferson?  I could go on here.

    I really don't understand why private legal sexual affairs of the heart are regarded as valid questions to ask in measuring a person's qualifications for public service.

    I also don't get how it is that all anyone has to do is point their finger and yell "Sinner!" at a Democrat and their career is over while the Republicans like George W. Bush committ crimes like torture and nobody does a damn thing to stop them.

    We have some really, seriously messed up priorities in this country - and until we change our priorities we are likely to suffer many more idots in our political leadership.

    Parent

    When did Clinton, FDR., etc., pontificate (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:43:47 PM EST
    on the morals of others?  That's the topic.  Address it.

    Parent
    Clinton - um - there is a fairly (none / 0) (#144)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:53:42 PM EST
    notorious televised finger wagging denial that I recall seeing - maybe you remember that too.

    As for FDR - the people of that era were incredibly fortunate that during their Great Depression the media weren't interested in this game of sexual gottcha - Eleanor in particular would have been totally destroyed and her great work around this nation halted.

    Edwards comment sounds exactly like something a guy who what raised in the Baptist Church would feel obligated to say - but nicer and a lot more tame imo.  It is not like he was damning anyone to hell - just recognizing how people in his culture are likely to react to an affair.

    I think any politician asked about an adult consensual affair should say it is none of anyone's g-d business - but no Democrat has the guts to say that sort of thing anymore.

    Parent

    I recall the finger-waving, (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:09:23 PM EST
    and he lied, and he messed up a lot of our lives.

    But I do not recall, nor does googling verify, that the finger-waving was aimed at others' morality.  Do you have a quote from him doing so?  That was your point, not mine.

    Parent

    I don't think that I suggested that (none / 0) (#157)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:07:54 PM EST
    anyone - even Edwards - was moralizing - I don't know where you got that idea into your head - there is nothing in my comments that suggest that I accused anyone of moralizing.  

    Parent
    Made Cream City got that into Cream's head (none / 0) (#159)
    by LatinoVoter on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:54:15 PM EST
    because that is was Cream said and you were replying too.  Read comment 138 until you understand it.

    Parent
    The topic of this post (none / 0) (#161)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 08:11:56 PM EST
    is Edwards' moralizing.

    So I asked that you address that, the topic of the post, not just whatever you feel like saying.

    Parent

    Herr Cream City Director - (1.00 / 1) (#167)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 09:56:08 PM EST
    I am going to post whatever I feel like saying regardless of your status as "Herr Cream City Director".

    Got it?

    But many thanks for playing!  Cheers!  :)

    Parent

    Oh, bless your heart, you just do that. (none / 0) (#168)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 11:25:18 PM EST
    And I will just continue to point out your inability to address the topic, and your attempt to deflect that by a subtle twist on Godwin's theory.

    So for your inference of Teutonism, I do not take that lightly at all.  I know that game you're playing.  It makes you the loser, Arschgesicht.

    Parent

    That last line is the kicker (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by liberalone on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:25:53 PM EST
    I agree that it is none of our business. And, most folks, especially the cheating ones, would do well to simply say that.

    Ain't nobody's bizness if I do.

    Parent

    I thought he was cold n/t (none / 0) (#48)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:15:26 PM EST
    Jesus, he's the only one (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:33:33 PM EST
    who didn't give the right answer on that question. He may now rightfully be accused of hypocrisy.

    I am still not interested in his affair, though.

    Ditto. (none / 0) (#64)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:32:02 PM EST
    I really don't care much about people's private matters.  When it comes to marital infidelity there's a lot of "sinners" out there.  Someone on DK once proclaimed that they would condemn and reject anyone who violated their marital vows.  I looked up the statistics for them.  I think it averages to over 20% for both genders - more for men, less for women.  

    Parent
    Depends on how the question arises. (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by wurman on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 09:00:09 PM EST
    In direct, face-to-face interviews, married people who are asked if they've been unfaithful respond 20% yes and 80% no for both genders.

    If you trick people, however, the results are astonishing.

    "Have you ever had an affair with a co-worker."
    Ladies, 70% yes; Gents, 80% yes.

    "Essence of Infidelity" (link)

    Infidelity affects 8 out of 10 marriages in this country. This is a shocking statistic! What happens between the time the marriage vows are spoken and that first episode of cheating? It's an assumption, of course, but I don't think that 80% of the people who get married intend to cheat or be part of a love triangle.

    Infidelity Case Analysis Literature Review (link):

    Estimates of marital infidelity among American couples identified by Shackelford and Buss (1997) range from 26 to 70 percent among women and from 33 to 75 percent for men.

    Shocking, ayeh?

    Parent

    Over 20%? (none / 0) (#66)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:34:29 PM EST
    I'm surprised it's that low.  

    Parent
    From memory. (none / 0) (#85)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:53:18 PM EST
    But even as a ball park figure, that's one out of five.  It totally cracked me up that someone would proclaim that they would reject 20% of their friends, family and general public.

    Parent
    I think that it is believed that any (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:44:07 PM EST
    survey on this matter is likely to be dramatically lower than the reality.  20% admit to having an affair - "admit" having cheated being the operative word - then there's the problem of how one defines cheating - some guys sleep with prostitutes, but they don't really consider that cheating per se.   In any case, with a divorce rate of 50%, I'd be surprised if only 20% of married people ever cheated.

    Parent
    I would guess (none / 0) (#160)
    by denise on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 08:09:54 PM EST
    that it's much higher for people in politics.

    Parent
    Edwards ran for President, twice (none / 0) (#80)
    by bridget on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:49:01 PM EST
    so the affair should not be ignored, for heavens sake.

    His wife who has cancer was a huge part of his campaign. Huge!!!. And practically the reason people on the net voted for him. Well. Almost. But close. He ran as the "only" populist in the primaries and his tag team game with Obama hurt Hillary Clinton badly.

    Just spare me the details. I don't want to know them. I never read a page of the Starr report either btw.

    Newt Gingrich's first wife had cancer and he wanted her to sign papers while in hospital. He was maligned for it ... and rightly so.

    What is good for the goose ... and that sort of thing.

    Parent

    I don't even care about his hypocrisy (none / 0) (#109)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:11:10 PM EST
    I think much of political analysis and discourse has unfortunately been reduced to dueling accusations of hypocrisy.  Real reporting or substantive analysis has gone by the wayside, we're down to strident accusations of 'but you said....'

    Yes, hypocrisy is a bad thing, but it's been sort of fetishized as the worst thing in the whole world by the MSM.  And I think it's because it's the easiest and cheapest way to do their fake-reporting.  It's annoying and stupid, because it glosses over the real questions raised by the subject of any hypocrisy accusations.

    I've not ever really been an Edward's fan, but I find his adultery worse than his hypocrisy about it, and his adultery politically irrelevant.

    Parent

    Not politically irrelevant in the primaries (5.00 / 5) (#142)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:47:54 PM EST
    when from Iowa forward, it could have changed the landscape for Clinton.  And his dissing her in the debates.  And his momentum-changing abandonment of her -- and the health-care programs we need, which was his cause -- at a crucial point in the campaign when he came out for Obama.

    Adultery, shmadultery; that's for him and Elizabeth to work out.  But frankly, I think less of her and her vaunted concern for health care, too, that they both helped Obama get the nomination now.

    Clinton would have been the nominee.  And that is politically as relevant as can be for the future of this country.

    Parent

    Bingo! You said it! (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by bridget on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:10:13 PM EST
    That was really a shock. (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by weltec2 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 08:36:03 PM EST
    It was more than simply a betrayal. It made no sense at all.

    Parent
    I agree with what you say vis a vis (none / 0) (#171)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 09, 2008 at 08:02:44 PM EST
    Clinton.  I may be splitting hairs but it's still not the hypocrisy that's the problem.  It's the lying, hubris and rolling the dice with the future of the country.

    Parent
    I can't believe.... (5.00 / 8) (#10)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:36:36 PM EST
    this was even a topic of an interview with presidential candidates.  No wonder we're f*cked.

    The first candidate who rips off their microphone and walks out upon being asked such a moronic question is the first candidate I send money too...I mean seriously....we're in debt up to the trillions, plants are illegal, we're violently occupying 2 countries with troops in 100 others, energy crisis, mortgage crisis, prison crisis...and Katie Couric is asking potential leaders of the free world their thoughts on sleeping around.

    What are we all f*cking stupid?

    I said that at the time (5.00 / 6) (#17)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:42:37 PM EST
    maybe not to this exact question. First candidate that tells the questioner to stuff it and walks off the stage gets my support.

    It has to stop.

    Parent

    It does have to stop.... (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:58:03 PM EST
    how does the saying go?  You get the government you deserve...ain't that the truth.

    Actually, we might deserve worse than we have, if that is even possible.

    The Enquirer will be flying off the shelves this week...anyone who buys it should be ashamed.

    Parent

    Hillary in one of the debates (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by oldpro on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:39:49 PM EST
    I recall, said "Oh, Campbell...." with a disappointed and withering look, to some inappropriate question she asked.

    For the life of me, I can't remember the question.  Was it "Pearls or diamonds?"

    Sheesh...if not, there was more than one dumb, dumb, awful question deserving of a verbal comeback like Hillary's, if not a walkout.

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:52:01 PM EST
    BROWN: But, Senator, if I can just ask you, what did you mean at Wellesley when you referred to the "boy's club"?

    As if Campbell Brown is utterly unfamiliar with the obstacles faced by a woman in a man's profession.  I mean, really.

    Parent

    Campbell's obstacles (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by litigatormom on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:17:45 PM EST
    are much lower than Hillary's were, four decades ago.

    Plus she gets to be married to Dan Senor, a Bushie who was an "aide" to Jerry Bremer during the time that Bremer was deciding to dissolve the Iraqi army and install a bunch of unqualified political loyalists in the CPA.

    Parent

    I remember (none / 0) (#126)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:24:19 PM EST
    herdoing a roundtable about Iraq and being fairly impressed with her non-cheerleading.

    When I heard she was marrying him, I was not impressed with her any more.

    Parent

    Totally agree. (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Joan in VA on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:15:30 PM EST
    What a skeezy question. How low can the discourse go? I didn't know about this at the time and wish I didn't now. I need to go bleach my brain.

    Parent
    This was the number one question for years (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by bridget on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:34:51 PM EST
    So nothing to be surprised about here.

    President Clinton was impeached over something I never wanted to know about... while tweety's TV cable career was made. Aside from the wars nothing was so depressing as the impeachment years in the late 90's. Hope vanished with it.

    And now it is the stuff American legends (read: ridicule) are made of  ... esp. in foreign films.

    Just saw "Definitely, Maybe." This film had to be made by an Obamafan was my first thought. Come to think of it now, I didn't even think "Republican" first. Why is that? Food for thought.

    Parent

    Clinton impeachment years (none / 0) (#79)
    by oldpro on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:48:45 PM EST
    were very depressing, I agree...but not worse than Nixon and Watergate and the Vietnam War.  Or even Reagan and Iran/Contra.

    And Carter's sad years of Iran holding our hostages for a year, trapping him in the White House while interest rates hit 17% wasn't exactly a walk in the park either.

    When you work and live through one of these periods, you always think you've finally got it licked and things will be OK at last.

    Then the next one hits.  And if you have somebody in charge like BushII...or even someone like LBJ or Jimmy Carter...making bad decisions, well....

    Next?

    Parent

    To me it was worse. (none / 0) (#87)
    by bridget on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:55:47 PM EST
    Nixon never went thru an impeachment trial and the personal impact of Watergate ... not even close. I don't want to go into details here.

    Reagan/Iran Contra was nothing compared to it.

    I excluded any war btw.

    Parent

    This is very unfortunate (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by litigatormom on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:37:03 PM EST
    Quite apart from feeling terribly sorry for Elizabeth, I am afraid this is going to brand Edwards irrevocably as a hypocrite. Yeah, infidelity shouldn't disqualify someone from public office. The Lewinsky matter didn't have much affect on my view of Bill Clinton as a president, although it certainly affected my opinion of him as a man. But given Elizabeth's illness during this period, I think a lot of people, including me, are going to have a harder time forgetting this.  In addition, it's one thing to say that you should through a president out of office for infidelity; it's another thing to elect a president who has been  unfaithful, particularly where the wife is as beloved and sympathetic as Elizabeth.  (By contrast, there were some people, particularly on the right, who exhibited a very ugly kind of schadenfreude at Hillary Clinton's humiliation.)

    Plus, given how long Edwards denied the affair, his denial of paternity is going to be viewed with continued skepticism, unless there is medical evidence to back that denial up.  The fact that a married friend of his is listed as the baby's father on the birth certificate, when Edwards' relationship with her was contemporaneous, is awfully coincidental.  

    Don't you think the illness (none / 0) (#12)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:38:48 PM EST
    could be a mitigating factor? I have certainly heard of such arrangements.

    Parent
    Edwards has made a point of (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:50:30 PM EST
    saying Elizabeth was in remission when the affair was going on.  It has nothing to do with her illness.

    Parent
    Oh please (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by DFLer on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:42:24 PM EST
    I have certainly heard of such arrangements [because of illness]

    yeah, how about an arrangement with your right hand?

    Parent

    It's not for you or me to tell him that. (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:21:19 PM EST
    Edwards himself has (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by litigatormom on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:03:10 PM EST
    attributed the affair to his belief that he had become "special" and being "narcisstic." Here is his press release:

    (CNN) -- In 2006, I made a serious error in judgment and conducted myself in a way that was disloyal to my family and to my core beliefs. I recognized my mistake and I told my wife that I had a liaison with another woman, and I asked for her forgiveness. Although I was honest in every painful detail with my family, I did not tell the public. When a supermarket tabloid told a version of the story, I used the fact that the story contained many falsities to deny it. But being 99 percent honest is no longer enough.

    I was and am ashamed of my conduct and choices, and I had hoped that it would never become public. With my family, I took responsibility for my actions in 2006 and today I take full responsibility publicly. But that misconduct took place for a short period in 2006. It ended then. I am and have been willing to take any test necessary to establish the fact that I am not the father of any baby, and I am truly hopeful that a test will be done so this fact can be definitively established. I only know that the apparent father has said publicly that he is the father of the baby. I also have not been engaged in any activity of any description that requested, agreed to or supported payments of any kind to the woman or to the apparent father of the baby.

    It is inadequate to say to the people who believed in me that I am sorry, as it is inadequate to say to the people who love me that I am sorry. In the course of several campaigns, I started to believe that I was special and became increasingly egocentric and narcissistic. If you want to beat me up -- feel free. You cannot beat me up more than I have already beaten up myself. I have been stripped bare and will now work with everything I have to help my family and others who need my help.

    I have given a complete interview on this matter and having done so, will have nothing more to say.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/08/edwards.statement/index.html

    Parent

    "Complete interview" link, please! (none / 0) (#116)
    by bridget on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:15:44 PM EST
    If possible.

    Very v. interesting statement. Thanks for posting.  

    ---
    "I have given a complete interview on this matter and having done so, will have nothing more to say."

    Parent

    The interview was in ABC (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by litigatormom on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:19:28 PM EST
    I don't know if they have a transcript up yet.  It airs tonight at 11:30.


    Parent
    NO! I understand your question, but (none / 0) (#26)
    by Shainzona on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:51:04 PM EST
    IMHO the answer is NO, Elizabeth's illness is not a mitigating factor.  These people have been through a lot of tough times and stuck it out.  If Edwards couldn't keep his zipper shut for the sake of his wife and her illness, then there is nothing to mitigate that decision....even if Elizabeth said, "It's OK John".

    Parent
    I wouldn't be at all surprised (none / 0) (#27)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:52:06 PM EST
    As I said in the other place, some men get all wierd when their when their wives get cancer.

    We, as yes, a sexist society, think men shouldn't be affected by it, but they are. And since they can't directly confront it, they deal with it in strange ways.

    Parent

    Interesting side note (none / 0) (#31)
    by CST on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:54:45 PM EST
    Men with HIV tend to take their wives/lovers with them to seek treatment.  Women do not take their husbands/lovers, they take their children.

    I posted about this in the open thread.

    Parent

    Well, if the friend's paternity is not true, (none / 0) (#53)
    by derridog on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:17:57 PM EST
    then it also tarnishes the other woman, by essentially telling the world that she sleeps around.  Of course, maybe she does, but Edwards meeting her in the hotel where she had brought the baby, while the supposed father was in the next room, makes that tale a little hard to accept.

    The problem is that our society is so hung up on sex.  I'm not saying Edwards wasn't being a jerk to Elizabeth, when she was seriously ill of all times, but many many people have a problems with their sex lives and problems with self-control and with using sex as an escape from a painful reality or from self-evaluation or to shore up insecurity or God knows whatever other reason (I know -- sheer lust is on the list but it's often driven by other things, including perhaps anxiety over the possible death of your spouse. Irrational, but could happen).  

    But would we have been better off if we knew that FDR had a mistress, that Eisenhower had an affair with his female driver in Europe during WWII,  that Kennedy was sleeping with the girlfriend of a mobster and Marilyn Monroe, among others, that LBJ was a noted womanizer, or that George Bush Senior had a mistress (this was, in fact, hushed up by the press).  

    Let's see, who does that leave out?

    Bill falls into the category above.

    Nixon. Who would want an affair with him?

    Carter? Same question.

    Reagan?  Well he was senile and called his wife "Mommy."

    And who knows about George? Shall we ask the National Inquirer about that pesky problem with Condi Rice and Laura calling it quits every month? (Just joking -but, again, who knows?)  

    Parent

    Hmmm...well, (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by oldpro on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:58:27 PM EST
    Nixon had a girlfriend (I know...hard to imagine).

    Carter admitted to lusting in his heart and I doubt it went any further - but who cares?

    Reagan.  Better read Kitty Kelly on that one!  He came from Hollywood, after all, and so did Nancy.

    George?  Yccchhh.

    Parent

    Derri - while I hate to comment (none / 0) (#84)
    by Xanthe on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:52:22 PM EST
    about this - I do not put President Eisenhower and President Kennedy in the same box.

    I believe (and I hope frankly) Eisenhower had an affair during wartime while away from his family under the conditions of war.  Maybe he fell in love.  No?

    President Kennedy was a serial womanizer.  Not judging -

    but proportion matters in political science and in affairs of the heart.

    Parent

    I guess the point I'm making is that people (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by derridog on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:34:30 PM EST
    can do terrible things to themselves and hurt their families and others because of their sexual appetites, which sometimes include behaviors that they have extreme difficulty controlling.  The more psychologically screwed up they are, the more difficult it can be.  As I get older, I find myself more forgiving of people with these kinds of problems and wishing that they didn't have to ruin their lives or commit suicide or become public laughingstocks for this.   It does seem to be far more common in the U.S. than in other parts of the world to persecute a person because of his sexual behavior.   I remember some Australian wag during the Clinton impeachment proceedings saying about the U.S.:  "Thank God they got the Puritans and we got the convicts."

    But I see your point about Kennedy. He didn't seem to feel there was anything wrong with what he was doing and, at that time, most men probably agreed with him (with exception of the mobster's girlfriend -- I think that would have raised some hackles had it been known-but then the press knew it and did nothing).

    Parent

    O for sure we all (none / 0) (#155)
    by Xanthe on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:43:07 PM EST
    have demons.  

    Great line from the Australian but as a woman, I like to think expecting fidelity doesn't make me a scold.  

    Parent

    edwards (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by mymy on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:38:59 PM EST
    reading the transcript I get the feeling Couric knew something .She sure seems to be pushing him

    I thought the same thing. (none / 0) (#33)
    by byteb on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:57:27 PM EST
    I admire Elizabeth so much....I'm truly sad.

    Parent
    Another disappointment - (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Xanthe on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:39:30 PM EST
    Oh John - goddamnit it!

    however - it's between him and his wife.  I hope they come out okay - and as far as that goes, I hope the "other woman" is okay as well.

    Damn it anyway!  Nothing new here - when will I ever learn.

    My sentiments exactly (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by DemForever on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:49:50 PM EST
    If Edwards had used his own money (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by ding7777 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:09:29 PM EST
    to pay for his mistress, then, yes, it would be between him and his wife.

    His political action committee later paid her $114,000 to produce campaign website documentaries despite her lack of experience.

    This is just a slap in the face to all those who contributed $20, $30, $40 dollars because they believed him.

    Parent

    The sad part for me - (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Xanthe on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:37:30 PM EST
    he was saying the right things about the working man - and while I want to be cool about it, man - yo I'm not.

    Now I think:  was he playing us about that too.

    Doesn't matter - it's what it is.  

    Parent

    That's relevant... (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:42:26 PM EST
    to Edwards' political career...cronyism.

    114 grand for website docs?  Shady...

    Still don't care who he gets feaky with or his views on sex and marriage....but I do care about who is on his payroll and why.

    Parent

    Ask for a refund! (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by oldpro on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:59:54 PM EST
    sigh (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Redshoes on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:55:32 PM EST
    As an Edwards supporter am very sad that this will distract and largely marginalize an important progressive voice.    Pity the poor and powerless.

    I can't resist a little snark... (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Oje on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:57:30 PM EST
    But, Edwards was the first choice of much of the blogosphere before he dropped out. As FDL suggests, this would have torpedoed Democratic chances in November had Edwards won the primary.

    Then, to think, all those wise and insightful A-list bloggers who are great judges of political character vested all their support in Obama. Hmmmm, let's hope it does not become an affair to remember in the blogosphere's issue-free political calculations during 2008.

    Ah, I remember all the arguments about (5.00 / 4) (#104)
    by litigatormom on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:07:19 PM EST
    how Hillary had too much baggage, how she should have dumped Bill if she was a real feminist, not to mention Edwards himself suggesting that she deliberately lied to cover up for Bill.

    Thanks for nothing, John.

    Parent

    Karma. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:22:32 PM EST
    Oh come on. No candidate in history has (none / 0) (#36)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:58:31 PM EST
    been vetted as much as Obama. There's no risk there at all.

    Parent
    Not meant as a comment about Obama.... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Oje on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:39:42 PM EST
    It was meant as a statement on the political ideology of the left blogosphere and its influence on preferences for politicians.

    For those folks, contrast their attraction to the high-minded moralism of an Edwards in the light of the infidelity of Bill Clinton, or the "righteousness" of Obama's pre-war speech to the senatorial judgment of Hillary Clinton (and their willful ignorance for Obama's sentorial record on Iraq). Just saying, the A-listers political reasoning - to the extent it has been shaped by CDS, as many of us suspect - seems to be characterized by a compulsion to distance themselves from Clinton and to rid Democrats of Clintonism - a kind of purity play for political hacks.

    Parent

    And, the affair says more about the dKos community (none / 0) (#81)
    by Oje on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:49:21 PM EST
    than it does about Edwards. Just start reading here for all the shirt-rending... the "betrayal"...

    Does not seem like the langauge and reaction of a rational political discourse to me. It seems progressives' stated lack of regard for infidelity only run as deep as the pixels on their computer screens... behind that, a lot of seething anger about infidelity, personal anxieties about trust and "betrayal."

    Parent

    He's been vetted by (none / 0) (#41)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:07:51 PM EST
    the republicans, too.  Don't know what the risk factors are.

    Parent
    Except maybe Hillary Clinton (none / 0) (#132)
    by sj on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:37:59 PM EST
    whose vetting started in 1992.

    Parent
    I'm actually mad that Edwards (5.00 / 6) (#39)
    by rjarnold on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:02:59 PM EST
    ran for President in the first place. He hid this from his campaign and his supporters, and if he had won the nomination, he would have been destroyed by the Republicans.

    And to think that he made all those hypocritical attacks against Hillary about her not being honest.

    Other sources have already spotted this quote: (5.00 / 8) (#55)
    by RonK Seattle on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:18:53 PM EST
    "I think this President has shown a remarkable disrespect for his office, for the moral dimensions of leadership, for his friends, for his wife, for his precious daughter. It is breathtaking to me the level to which that disrespect has risen."

    -- John Edwards, quoted by the Raleigh News & Observer in 1999, on Bill Clinton.

    (This from Taegan Goddard's PoliticalWire)

    And that unnecessary (5.00 / 3) (#112)
    by oldpro on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:13:47 PM EST
    comment put me off re John Edwards from day one.

    He's a political phony, he always was a phony and he always will be.  There may be a genuine, 'sincere bone in his body' but it doesn't sell to most of the electorate who weren't taken in by all that smarmy, insincere 'charm.'

    Couldn't stand him, myself...

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#68)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:37:02 PM EST
    Joe Lieberman, call your office.

    Parent
    Meteor Blades actually has a good diary (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by rjarnold on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:33:43 PM EST
    on this.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/8/161334/1997/625/564821

    You knew when you declared for the presidency that this affair hung over you, that it might easily come to light. That it could, had you gained the nomination, have wrecked the party's chances for winning the White House, tamped down support for Democrats running for seats in Congress, and set progressives back a decade. You knew that when you kept your name in the hopper for the vice presidency.

    But you kept running anyway. You lied. And you got others to lie for you. You did this knowing full well the damage that could be done, not to your marriage, but to the party and the aspirations for better governance of those who looked to you as a leader who could help bring it about.

    ...

    You have made it clear that you cared more about yourself than about that constituency. Than about us. You were willing to take a chance that you would be nominated for the Presidency and that the revelation of this affair would put a Republican in the White House

    I couldn't agree more.

    Sorry. (5.00 / 4) (#71)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:39:04 PM EST
    I don't think Edwards thought he had a real chance at it.

    I always thought he ran to help get some of the important issues out there for dems, speak about them intelligently, and create some excitement in the primary.

    I supported him, but his numbers were never strong.

    I'm already bored with all the boohooing and outrage.

    I wish people would stop moralizing and just shut up.

    Good grief.

    Parent

    He had a real chance to win Iowa (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by rjarnold on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:51:09 PM EST
    and if he won that, he would have had a realistic chance to win the nomination.

    Look, I was rooting for Edwards to win at the beginning, but in retrospect his candidacy has been damaging for the party.

    Had he of won many of his promises from the primaries would have hurt him, and after this affair, there is no way he could have won.

    Had Hillary of won, Republicans would have recycled his simplistic attacks on her character and integrity, which in my opinion helped Obama win the nomination.

    Parent

    First, (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:56:31 PM EST
    Had Hillary have won, not of.

    Second, if you have a point, I'm not getting it.  Certainly, I don't see much of anything besides a weak opinion here.

    What attacks on her character and integrity?  She's miles above the other candidates.  Obama, otoh, hasn't been around long enough.

    Parent

    Thanks for the correction, (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by rjarnold on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:20:14 PM EST
    but his main talking points in october through december was that you can't trust the Clintons. For example there was this simplistic and misleading ad that Repubs would have used against her:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qggO5yY7RAo

    Parent

    Oh, who cares? (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:29:00 PM EST
    She would have been a better match for McCain than Obama is.

    He's on vacation.

    She's working.

    Parent

    and at least he didnt blame hillary for it (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by sancho on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:01:20 PM EST
    Double sorry. (5.00 / 4) (#123)
    by oldpro on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:20:21 PM EST
    If you were right, Edwards wouldn't have sat there week after week...finally endorsing...who?  Obama?

    If the issues matter(ed) to him he should have endorsed Hillary AND her healthcare plan.

    Parent

    The answers were a problem of course (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:04:18 PM EST
    He should have refused to answer the question.

    Parent
    At that point he had 3 options (none / 0) (#131)
    by rjarnold on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:30:21 PM EST
    1. Admit it. (which would have hurt his candidacy)

    2. Refuse to answer. (which would have hurt his candidacy by causing more speculation)

    or 3. Deny and lie. (which at that moment would not hurt his candidacy)

    He chose the one option that would not have hurt his candidacy at the time, but would have still put the party at the risk of nominating him.

    Parent

    Disagree with MB. (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:05:52 PM EST
    Do us all a favor, eh? Disappear for the next three months.  

    Let's hang that scarlet letter around his neck and cast him out, shall we?  [rolls eyes]

    If this is what sinks a presidential campaign, it was a decrepit, pathetic campaign to begin with.  Do Dems always quake in their boots when something like this comes out?  

    I'm sure the Clintons are relaxing just a tiny bit, now that the media has someone else to pillory for a while.  Heh!

    Parent

    Clinton will get this while (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by waldenpond on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:42:05 PM EST
    campaigning for Obama.  Obama is on vacation while Clinton gets asked for her opinion on this issue.  I don't think she will be relaxing about this.  Of course Edwards timed this with Obama's campaign but I wonder if Clinton knew about this.  I would hope so.

    Parent
    Trivially false (none / 0) (#108)
    by rilkefan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:10:30 PM EST
    A campaign that loses because of something stupid that people care a great deal about is a campaign that would have won otherwise.

    The point obviously isn't to scarlet letter him, it's to keep him from hurting our chances in November.  Maybe you can roll your eyes at the prospect of people getting worked up about the chance McCain will win.

    Parent

    Yeah, (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:15:39 PM EST
    it'll be everyone else's fault if Obama loses in November.

    Has nothing whatsoever to do with him.

    This is getting funny.

    Parent

    It's not funny being unable to hold two consistent (none / 0) (#128)
    by rilkefan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:28:26 PM EST
    ideas in your head at the same time - that x and y are bad, with y worse, and that x is worth avoiding even if y.

    Parent
    Yawn. (none / 0) (#134)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:38:43 PM EST
    If only I agreed with you...

    Parent
    If only you agreed with simple logic n/t (none / 0) (#145)
    by rilkefan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:53:58 PM EST
    Edwards is almost irrelevant (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:18:40 PM EST
    or should be.

    The media will work themselves up into a lather about this, Obama will lose some precious media coverage and then we'll go back to superficial election coverage and gratuitous Clinton bashing until the conventions.  

    Big whoop.  

    Now if you want to talk about what mighta, coulda been then speculate away.  But I suggest that everyone, y'know, Get Over It, Turn The Page and Move On.  I've got better things to do than dwell on someone's very past tense affair.

    Parent

    You've got better things to do (none / 0) (#130)
    by rilkefan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:29:42 PM EST
    so why aren't you doing them?

    Parent
    Well, that is true and very well expressed. (none / 0) (#70)
    by derridog on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:38:36 PM EST
    A more telling Edwards quote: (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by RonK Seattle on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:40:11 PM EST
    In the course of several campaigns, I started to believe that I was special and became increasingly egocentric and narcissistic.

    -- statement released today, per ABC Political Radar

    Oh man. (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:46:43 PM EST
    That is certainly what can happen, heck, probably does happen, to almost everyone in a position of power.  

    He recognized it, maybe too late.  Better late than never.

    Power is a terrible drug, I guess.  Depends what you do when you have it though.

    Shouldn't that be what matters?

    Parent

    Bleh (none / 0) (#94)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:00:59 PM EST
    What an awful statement.

    When a supermarket tabloid told a version of the story, I used the fact that the story contained many falsities to deny it. But being 99% honest is no longer enough.

    So denying the story altogether because it contained some inaccuracies is "99% honest"?  You know, come clean or not at all.

    I feel for the kids.  How does it feel for the whole country to know that your dad cheated on your mom?

    Parent

    i said in another comment... (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Little Fish on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:20:03 PM EST
    I nannied for a family where the husband's affair was outed in a front page story on the local newspaper (seattle times). The kids were/are too young to know, but I heard about it everywhere I went with then. It was awful. They weren't public figures either, but had an unusual enough last name that it was all the talk at school, activites etc. My heart goes out to Edwards children, especially Cate, who's older and fully aware. I hope people are respectful of them.

    Parent
    All This From (5.00 / 5) (#92)
    by The Realist on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:00:08 PM EST
    A man that, because of religious beliefs, felt that marriage was between a man and woman.

    I am a gay man in an 11 year relationship and was an Edwards supporter. I can't tell you how disappointed and furious I am.

    I am not interested in his private life to this extent, but for him to fall on the side of his religious beliefs and deny me my right to love and marry the person with whom i choose to share my life is hypocrisy.

    I am ashamed that i supported this man.

    In case anyone is interested, (5.00 / 8) (#96)
    by NJDem on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:01:25 PM EST
    HRC was asked about it and said:

    "My thoughts and prayers are with the Edwards family, and that's all I have to say," an ashen Hillary Clinton said after an appearance in Las Vegas on behalf of Obama.

    Barack Obama gets it right (5.00 / 3) (#97)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:01:38 PM EST
    I was never interested, am not interested and will not be interested about a politician's personal life.

    Credit to Barack Obama for getting it right.

     

    Hillary too (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:02:41 PM EST
    The two best candidates we had.

     

    Parent

    As if ..... (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by bridget on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:25:57 PM EST
    Obama: "I was never interested, am not interested and will not be interested about a politician's personal life."

     

    Parent

    WOW! this was (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by The Realist on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:59:05 PM EST
    the perfect time for a vacation, wasn't it?

    Edwards.......lol (none / 0) (#1)
    by SoCalLiberal on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:26:19 PM EST


    Heh (none / 0) (#2)
    by CST on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:26:25 PM EST
    It does always seem that the ones who judge the most are the ones that end up slipping.

    Also (5.00 / 6) (#6)
    by CST on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:30:29 PM EST
    I think this was a pretty loaded question designed to make Hillary uncomfortable.  To which I say, I am glad that neither Richardson nor Obama took the bait.


    Parent
    Put Hillary on the spot, but trapped John.... (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by jerry on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:11:23 PM EST
    Yeah, a distinctly unfair question if you ask me, but it is a bit amusing how it traps Edwards for later.

    (I wonder if he would have answered differently had he been a defense lawyer and not a personal injury lawyer.)

    Parent

    In December 1007, Edwards had already... (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Shainzona on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:45:48 PM EST
    "slipped".  So this comment was made with him KNOWING  what is in his past.

    Parent
    Just how does he manage to look so young? (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by jerry on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:11:52 PM EST
    Portrait of himself in the attic? n/t (5.00 / 4) (#121)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:19:36 PM EST
    Which looks (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by weltec2 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 09:11:10 PM EST
    just like Alan Colmes.

    Parent
    It's the expensive haircuts. ; ) (none / 0) (#60)
    by byteb on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:26:19 PM EST
    Edit, obviously! "2007" (none / 0) (#21)
    by Shainzona on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:47:23 PM EST
    Hm (none / 0) (#3)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:27:42 PM EST
    Why doesn't someone who actually hasn't had an affair just take the position that yes, it's totally disqualifying?  Sure, they don't really mean it, but this is politics!

    Maybe the reason this doesn't happen is because there are no politicians who haven't had an affair.  Possibly...

    Hillary Clinton could not do so (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:32:15 PM EST
    of course.  Not because of her fidelity, of course.  

    It was a setup to get her, but now it will get Edwards.  Interesting -- and especially because Clinton would be the nominee, but for Edwards'  hubris in running while having an affair, paying the woman with a faux campaign job with campaign -- our -- funds, etc.

    I would not care about this but for the probability that Clinton would be the nominee.  That matters -- for the country, not just for the Dems and for me.


    Parent

    So...does this kill the chances her name will (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:39:11 PM EST
    be put in nomination at the convention?  If the Edwards delegates go for her, she could win.

    Makes that whole issue more meaningful.

    Parent

    Or maybe there weren't enough of them to matter (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:40:28 PM EST
    I used to know this stuff - but I just don't remember.

    I understand your overall point about the primary dynamics though - she would have won, I believe also.

    Parent

    Why (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by CST on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:43:48 PM EST
    Would Edwards delegates be more likely to vote for Clinton today vs. yesterday?

    Not to rain on the parade, but Clinton is not going to be the nomine...  at least not this year.  That ship has sailed.

    Parent

    Well...it is just a new variable in the equation (none / 0) (#22)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:47:31 PM EST
    I guess.  I'm not even hopeful about it - I waved the ship good-bye from the dock in June. Just find it interesting as an observer of the unfolding spectacle.

    Parent
    Why are you convinced (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by DemForever on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:49:24 PM EST
    that Edwards voters would have voted for Hillary if he had not gotten in the race?

    Parent
    Demographics. (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:54:43 PM EST
    Hillary split the rural vote with Hillary. She started completely dominating this vote once Edwards dropped out. If people had known about this and Rev. Wright pre IA, things might be different.

    Parent
    You mean Edwards split (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by litigatormom on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:05:53 PM EST
    the rural vote with Hillary.

    And yes, if he'd not been in the race, I believe she would have won the nomination.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#169)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 09, 2008 at 07:55:18 AM EST
    I'm sorry. That is what I meant. LOL. Too tired I guess.

    Parent
    You're ignoring the momentum (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:10:35 PM EST
    of the campaign.  Click to my other comments on it.

    Parent
    Edwards ran a very negative campaign (none / 0) (#150)
    by rilkefan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:15:30 PM EST
    against HRC - even if his voters hadn't gone for HRC  (I think they would have preferred late-campaign HRC to the "clinging" stance of Obama), not having him in the race would have been a great thing for her.

    Parent
    With what we know (none / 0) (#153)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:31:11 PM EST
    now (see Ron Suskind), how do you not run a negative campaign against anyone who voted for the Iraq invasion?

    You people seriously need to get over this HRC-as-infallable guru fixation.

    Parent

    Of course HRC said it would be a bad idea (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by rilkefan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:55:46 PM EST
    to invade - she didn't vote "for" it.  And of course  Edwards voted for the AUMF, so your argument is silly.  Beyond that, re "guru", you're off-topic and irrelevant.

    Parent
    He "thinks"?! (none / 0) (#37)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:00:35 PM EST
    Obama:

    I do think that I'm very proud of the relationship I've got with Michelle, and the work and the value that I've put into it.


    So Hillary would have won (none / 0) (#38)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:02:02 PM EST
    if Edwards hadn't entered the race?  You really think so?  Or did Edwards simply temporarily distract from the Hillary/Obama conflicts, and give something for the media to talk about other than hating Hillary.

    If we want to go that route, we should all be lambasting Bill because if he hadn't done the Lewinsky Limbo, Gore would have been president.

    And heck, we should also be happy about the Iraq war (snark) because if Bush hadn't gone into Iraq, maybe this wouldn't be a Demo's year!

    Don't go there!

    Oh, and the $114,000.  Imagine the ridiculous sums spent on Penn (Clinton) and Obama's media onslaught that got him losses in many big blue states.  Presidential Campaigns BLOW MONEY on some really horrendous things and it's likely that many of them blow the money on some pretty questionable things.  It's wrong, and why I donate very little to campaigns.  

    We can go down that slippery road, or we can say, what is, is and that we can't go back.

    Shall we revisit 'The Politics of Parsing'? (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by RonK Seattle on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:00:31 PM EST
    Gore's loss was his own fault, (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by litigatormom on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:09:34 PM EST
    sad to say.  And ironically, it's because he ran away from Bill.

    CORRECTION:  Actually, Gore's loss wasn't his own fault.  It was Sandra Day O'Connor's.  The fact that he was in a position for the SCt to give the election away was his own fault.

    Parent

    Cart before the horse (none / 0) (#110)
    by rilkefan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:12:28 PM EST
    Without the Lewinsky scandal Gore doesn't judge it necessary to run away from WJC, because the latter wouldn't have the high personal negatives.

    Parent
    During the impeachment, and until (none / 0) (#143)
    by litigatormom on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:49:32 PM EST
    the end of his term, Bill's poll numbers were very high. Unlike our current incumbent, whom McCain sometimes embraces, sometimes pretends  doesn't exist, and sometimes pretends doesn't have the same positions he doess.

    Parent
    Gore would be president (2.00 / 1) (#77)
    by rilkefan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:44:34 PM EST
    and I do hold that against WJC, and I say so.  It was incredibly stupid and reckless of him.  Privately it's between him and HRC, of course.

    If Bush hadn't gone into Iraq, Kerry might be president now.  Almost certainly HRC would be the nominee otherwise.

    We can't know the future, but we can a) have sensible moral positions based on our principles and b) sensible political positions based on our predictions.

    Parent

    Well, no. (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by TheRealFrank on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:55:42 PM EST
    Bill Clinton was very popular despite all the Monica crap; on the night of the impeachment vote he had an approval rating of 75%.

    Gore made the mistake of not involving Clinton more in his campaign. And he picked Lieberman. And Donna Brazile was his campaign manager.


    Parent

    Well, no (none / 0) (#103)
    by rilkefan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:06:11 PM EST
    "on the night of the impeachment vote he had an approval rating of 75%"

    Because of the impeachment, not despite it.  Job approval, not personal btw unless I'm misremembering.

    WJC was definitely a two-edged sword at the time, and Gore made a lot of mistakes - but without the blue dress WJC campaigns full-out for Gore, and Gore doesn't spend a lot of capital defending him and finding the right distance and competing for the spotlight.

    Parent

    Sure (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by TheRealFrank on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:15:11 PM EST
    You can debate whether involving Clinton more would have a positive effect on Gore's campaign or not. I think it would have had a positive effect, and you don't. Ok.

    However, you go one step further: claiming that Gore would have won (well, he did, but..) if it hadn't been for the Lewinsky affair.

    I don't think there's any evidence to support that.

    Also, "job approval" and "personal approval" are not two terms you can separate for a lot of people, I really don't think it's valid to try to devaluate Bill Clinton's popularity by making such a distinction.


    Parent

    You fail to understand (none / 0) (#133)
    by rilkefan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:38:30 PM EST
    the point.  I don't know if more WJC would have helped Gore - I suspect so, though I didn't see the private polling data.  But that's entirely moot if Clinton spends the last years of his presidency working for the good of the country and the world instead of fighting the press and fixing his relationships and forcing Gore to look like a chump.

    And, well, what a lot of people think is fine and good, but the simple fact is that more than a lot of people thought WJC was doing a good job as president but was a sleazeball, and that latter part can't be waved away because you don't care.  You have to deny any negative effect from the affair to say that the razor's-edge election wouldn't have likely been further tipped to the D side - you have to argue it was a probably good thing for a large part of phase space.  Which, ok, go for it if you want, but I think Occam's on my side.

    Parent

    And BTW (none / 0) (#47)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:15:13 PM EST
    All politicians lie and distort  and many of them have affairs (even the ones we like do these thing).  For whatever reason, there seems to be some severe moral failings ingrained in politicians.

    And maybe Edwards ran, knowing full well that he wouldn't win and that's why he wasn't thinking "I'll win and this will all come out".  Maybe he actually cared about the issues he was running on and wanted the platform to run, even if it was only temporary.

    And I truly don't think McCain is going to use this, since he has his own slippery slope.

    Parent

    McCain has very wisely (none / 0) (#141)
    by litigatormom on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:46:52 PM EST
    responded "no comment" to press inquiries about his reaction to the Edwards news.

    The McCain story, though very old, is quite unflattering. McCain cheated on her after she was injured in a terrible car accident while he was still in the POW camp.  She didn't want him to know because she feared he would be upset.  When he came home, she was disfigured and in rehab (she lost two inches of bone from her legs).  McCain met the rich, blonde, much younger Cindy and pursued her. He divorced Mrs. McCain the First less than a month before he remarried Cindy.

    The first Mrs. McCain, however, purports to be on good terms with McCain, and supports his candidacy.

    Some people are just too damn forgiving.

    Parent

    You know (none / 0) (#40)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:07:40 PM EST
    I've decided to disagree with all the people saying affairs are none of anybody's business.

    I have never cheated on my wife, and if I ever decide to run for office, I want some credit for that, dammit!  I refuse to take this issue off the table.

    No, affairs still (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:12:54 PM EST

    are none of your business.

    When you get to 34 years, let me know.  :)

    Parent

    Oh lord (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:16:12 PM EST
    My wife will surely kill me long before then.  Even if I don't have an affair. :)

    Parent
    Hee hee. (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:22:27 PM EST
    You seem so lovable though.  :)

    Parent
    Then again (none / 0) (#54)
    by CST on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:18:02 PM EST
    Scratch my last post... ?

    Parent
    I'm sure (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by CST on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:17:33 PM EST
    Your wife will give you all the credit in the world.

    Parent
    Credit? (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by oldpro on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:08:25 PM EST
    A modern wife would demand cash that she could bank on...just in case...

    Credit cards can be cancelled.  Cash, no.

    Parent

    So True! (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Bluesage on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:44:27 PM EST
    LOL - I don't know one married woman, myself included, that doesn't have a stash of cash.  We are historically a pragmatic lot.  

    Parent
    I actually think this is good for Obama (none / 0) (#59)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:25:18 PM EST
    what with the "polling" lately regarding his supposed overexposure and the silly back-and-forth with McCain, which of course only works to McCain's advantage.

    Obama can come back from Hawaii in ten days, be "reintroduced," and maybe people will have gotten their fill of $400 haircut-elitist-hypocritical-liberal type commentary.

    I hope the media will discuss (none / 0) (#62)
    by byteb on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:31:32 PM EST
    McCain's history of infidelities while they're dissecting John Edwards or will they concentrate on the Democrats?  So many ppl still think McCain is Mr. Straight Arrow.

    Parent
    I saw McCain and Cindy (none / 0) (#113)
    by litigatormom on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:13:52 PM EST
    interviewed recently (I can't remember by whom) and they lovingly told the story about how they first met and how they fell in love.

    Without mentioning, of course, that McCain was very much married at the time, and that he divorced his badly injured wife just a month before he and Cindy got married.

    Parent

    My elderly mother had no idea (none / 0) (#166)
    by byteb on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 09:28:08 PM EST
    that McCain was previously married or any information about when he met Cindy. She bought the whole Straight Talk Express package and thought he was an example of good old fashioned values.

    The media doesn't like to dwell on any part of his past history that doesn't fit the myth.

    Parent

    And the same applies to obama... (none / 0) (#172)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 03:22:42 PM EST
    It's not always the guys (none / 0) (#117)
    by oldpro on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:16:25 PM EST
    ya know....remember the absolutely stunning press conference by the New York First Couple?  Sheesh.

    Maybe the press should be following Cindy and Michelle more closely...

    Just a thought.

    Parent

    Wow (none / 0) (#89)
    by Jgarza on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:57:37 PM EST
    Jeralyn great find! I'm glad you posted this.  Its funny sometimes the most judgemental people are the msot guilty.

    Well, duh. (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by pie on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:13:01 PM EST
    Where have you been since forever?

    Parent
    This makes me (none / 0) (#135)
    by Bluesage on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 05:39:10 PM EST
    So sad.  My heart goes out to Elizabeth and his children.  The media will be on this 24/7 and never give any thought to what it is doing to his family.  I really hate our disgusting media.  But, it could help Obama because they won't have to talk about his Hawaii vacation and they won't have to talk about McCain.  

    I was an Edwards supporter and I'm really ticked off that he put his supporters and his family thru this.  

    Sex and the Suffragettes (none / 0) (#170)
    by Virginia Harris on Sat Aug 09, 2008 at 04:35:08 PM EST
    I admire Elizabeth Edwards for standing by her man. Thanks to the suffragettes, women have choices in their lives. She doesn't have to stay - she wants to stay.

    Politicians will be politicians!

    Betcha don't know which president had a love child while running for office, and how that helped women win the vote.

    Most people are totally in the dark about HOW the suffragettes won.

    Now finding out the sexy, shocking truth is as easy as opening your e-mail.

    "The Privilege of Voting" is a new e-mail series that follows eight women from 1912 - 1920 to reveal ALL that happened to set the stage for women to win the vote.

    Two beautiful and extremely powerful suffragettes -- Alice Paul and Emmeline Pankhurst are featured, along with Edith Wharton, Isadora Duncan, Alice Roosevelt and two gorgeous presidential mistresses.

    There is a ton of heartache, and lots of hot affairs on the rocky road to the ballot box.

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