McCain Blows Chance in Wisconsin

By TChris, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:52:33 PM EST
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Wisconsin has ten electoral votes. John McCain has little chance of winning them, but he sealed that fate today. During an interview with a local television station in Pittsburgh:

McCain told a rather moving story about his time as a P.O.W. "When I was first interrogated and really had to give some information because of the pressures, physical pressures on me, I named the starting lineup, defensive line of the Pittsburgh Steelers as my squadron mates." ...
[T]he Steelers aren't the team whose defensive line McCain named for his Vietnamese tormentors. The Green Bay Packers are. At least according to every previous time McCain has told this story.

In Wisconsin, the only thing more important than God, country, and the right to hunt deer is Packers football. (Speaking of, Favre wants to come back and the Packers don't want him? Say it ain't so!) Whether McCain was honestly mistaken in this version of an oft-told story, whether he was pandering to Steelers fans, or whether the story has always been a fiction (a possibility that would never be considered had McCain not changed a key fact), he has messed with the Packers. In Wisconsin, that's unforgivable. Tally ten EV's for Obama.

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McCain Blows Chance in Wisconsin | 49 comments (49 topical)

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Latest Ras poll gives wide lead to Obama in WI (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by Platypus on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:00:31 PM EST

50 Obama, 39 McCain

Last month, Obama led by only two points (45/43).

See this DK post for details.

Well, it's Rasmussen. (none / 0) (#13)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:37:29 PM EST

I'm waiting to see our local pollsters test Wisconsin. National pollsters have a tough time figuring out a state with multiple personalities.


Here is your in state (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by CoralGables on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:43:28 PM EST

No need to wait. The University of Wisconsin did one recently that had Obama up at +13.


Recently? I saw a UW one (none / 0) (#18)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:53:18 PM EST

some time ago. I'll go check the poll roundup link again. The one to watch for is from St. Norbert's College, from past performance.


Yep, it was that one a month ago (none / 0) (#19)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:57:57 PM EST

with a good organization behind it, wispolitics.com, which is fairly unbiased, as such groups go. And certainly good UW faculty conducting it.

But I remember now, reading up on it again, that it was the debut survey in a series to come from them, so it has no track record. That's why I'm still waiting for the local pollsters that do have one.


Go Badgers (none / 0) (#21)
by CoralGables on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 09:15:58 PM EST

I agree in that I also enjoy watching the same polling outfit after they do several over time. It gives you a much better feel than different polling outfits from day to day.

btw..I had the "great pleasure" of spending three weeks in Hudson one February. Other than experiencing a high of minus 7 the first 10 days days, it was a wonderful place. Too bad for me it wasn't summer.


: I just went through there, and (none / 0) (#22)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 09:23:09 PM EST

it's a great area -- once I got past the weird orange moose statue in Black River Falls. Freeks me out every time on that trip. More freeky this time was having the freeway close behind us because of the floods, but that was well south of the Twin Cities. As for the Twins themselves, they are so gorgeous in summer! We just walked and walked the Stone Arches art fair and more, much more.
But yeh, I don't do up north in winter -- although this year, we may have seen climate change effects. Milwaukee and Madison set snowfall records, while northern Wisconsin had less than half what we had. Of course, that probably just means it was too cold to snow up there. :-)

Yeah, let's attack the guy for possibly (5.00 / 5) (#4)
by tigercourse on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:02:38 PM EST

misremembering something that happened 40 years ago when he was GETTING TORTURED. That will go over well.

OK, I Will (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by squeaky on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:15:29 PM EST

He wrote about it:

In McCain's best-selling 1999 memoir "Faith of My Fathers," McCain writes:

And discussed it:

In 2005, A&E ran a movie version of "Faith of My Fathers."
And McCain discussed that precise clip on CNN.

In three years senility can really kick in. Let's see, was it the red button, black button or green one that shoots off those missiles?


Well snarking about his plane crash (none / 0) (#38)
by Valhalla on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:16:15 PM EST

worked out so well, I'm sure this will stampede the polls in Obama's direction.


: OK (none / 0) (#42)
by squeaky on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:23:31 PM EST

I get it, you must be another McSame shill/apologist. Poor guy, he really needs your help.

not so fast my friend! (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by english teacher on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 09:25:30 PM EST

there's still plenty of time for obama to make a comment about the funny little blocks of emmentaler they wear on their heads.

Sacrilege! Yeh, maybe in New Glarus (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 09:32:47 PM EST

where they love and live all things Swiss. But re our cheesy chapeau, my friend, think Colby, Wisconsin. We are cheddarheads. And darn proud of it.


Sharp? (none / 0) (#25)
by oldpro on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 09:47:46 PM EST

Extra-sharp?

White cheddar?

Yum....


I'm pro-choice on cheese (none / 0) (#26)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:08:26 PM EST

too. And my cheese must suit my mood. So I have available in my fridge right now a shredded medium cheddar mix with Mexican cheese for quesadillas or for sandwiches with braunschweiger. And an extra-sharp for sandwiches with summer sausage. (Both sausages must be from Usinger's, yahyoubetcha -- and if you don't know Usinger's, made in Milwaukee since 1880, you can order online.)

And there's a smoked cheddar chunk for a snack with crackers. And a white cheddar for mac and cheese.

And that's just the cheddars. Seriously. My spouse is not a Wisconsinite and just shakes his head when he opens the fridge. After decades here, it's still a foreign country with a lot of funny foods to him.


: CABOT CHEESE! (none / 0) (#39)
by gyrfalcon on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:17:32 PM EST

VERMONT!

I'd recommend (none / 0) (#27)
by TChris on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:10:53 PM EST

Hooks 10 year old cheddar.


Ah, Mineral Point -- I love their bleu (none / 0) (#31)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:18:34 PM EST

but lost the outlet here that carried their cheese. I may have to order some shipped. That just seems weird to do, doesn't it, ordering cheese shipped within Wisconsin? Like ordering snow in Alaska.:-)


: a tip (none / 0) (#32)
by TChris on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:21:02 PM EST

If you can find a Brennans anywhere nearby, they package Hooks aged cheddar under the Brennans label and sell it at quite a bit less than you pay in cheese shops for Hooks. Same cheese though.

: NO! Not wierd at all (none / 0) (#47)
by oldpro on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 12:01:04 AM EST

to order within state.
Every Xmas I get a tin of "Cougar Gold" cheddar from WSU creamery (Washington State University - yep, an ag school and my alma mater, '58) and I also buy local cheeses from 10 miles down the road...one of those trendy, new 'sustainable ag' movements, doncha know.
OOur northwest basics, tho, are Oregon's Tillamook cheeses. Damn good, any way you slice it!

This is a (5.00 / 2) (#28)
by tek on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:12:07 PM EST

very silly story. We wonder why politics has gotten so dumbed down in America. Maybe if journalists wouldn't base election predictions on sports Americans would attach greater importance to real issues. I quite imagine there are a number of more important things in WI than the Green Bay Packers.

Really, Democrats should stop trying to skewer McCain for the kind of errors Obama is constantly guilty of and try to assess Obama's behavior.

: Silly? (1.80 / 5) (#30)
by squeaky on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:17:07 PM EST

Only if you are shilling for McSame.

In all seriousness (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by Steve M on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:33:13 PM EST

this is about the dumbest gotcha Democrats could ever bring up. It has all the vacuousness of Obama misremembering the name of a concentration camp, combined with the strategic foolishness of reminding voters about a story of McCain's heroism as a POW.

There are so many gaffes to nail McCain on, I sure hope no one has the bad judgment to try and exploit this one.

Really? (5.00 / 1) (#34)
by squeaky on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:46:40 PM EST

Seems more like shameless pandering to me, or senility.


You really want to compare (none / 0) (#36)
by MarkL on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:05:59 PM EST

the number of gaffes of McCain and Obama? Now THERE is a contest I believe Obama wins in a landslide.


Okay (none / 0) (#40)
by Steve M on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:21:35 PM EST

Try to see it as John and Jane America would see it, not as you would see it. The media sure isn't going to run with this one like it was Hillary in Bosnia, for any number of reasons.


No Kidding (none / 0) (#43)
by squeaky on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:27:26 PM EST

The media sure isn't going to run with this one like it was Hillary in Bosnia..

That's a fact. Which is why it is certainly worth mentioning here.


Yes (none / 0) (#44)
by Steve M on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:30:13 PM EST

Because if the media won't spread a story that reminds people of McCain's heroism and, at worst, makes him look like a guy who bungled an irrelevant detail, it's a really great idea for us to do it ourselves.


: OK (5.00 / 1) (#45)
by squeaky on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:41:28 PM EST

To each his and her own. For me it just adds to my poor impression of McSame' competence. Whether it is a memory lapse about his favorite subject: my life as a POW, or outright lying to suck up to voters, hoping that the locals would not notice, I am fine with reading about it here.

Could someone please esplain to me (5.00 / 1) (#41)
by pluege on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:22:27 PM EST

is giving names of a football team to torturers who wouldn't know an American football player from any other American name: is that clever or cute or brave? I get so confused which part of this totally stupid nonsensical story is supposed to make us swoon and think mcinsane is the bravestess, most cleverestess 'Murkin ever.
.

Puffery (5.00 / 1) (#46)
by CoralGables on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:55:45 PM EST

The fact that he wrote the story in his own book "Faith Of My Fathers" as if it was something very clever, and then remembers none of the details now could mean several things.

it never happened
he remembers little at this point
he just shoots from the hip with whatever comes to his mind

I think you nail it with your description of "stupid nonsensical story". Personally I don't think something like that in your past would be forgotten. It was probably used to flower up a biography where there was no way to verify and now it looks like that's all it was ...puffery...but nothing of substance either way.


Funny and cute (none / 0) (#1)
by cmugirl on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:55:49 PM EST

But I don't think so. Seems last I checked, the good people of Wisconsin were feeling a bit bamboozled by Obama, and there was lots of cross over voting in the primary.

Cream City is the expert on this topic - let's see what she has to say.

Actually, (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by TChris on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:09:32 PM EST

I am one of the good people in Wisconsin and my sense is that the linked poll showing a double digit Obama lead is pretty accurate. McCain is not connecting well with voters here. Obama is positioned where most Wisconsin voters are on health care, Iraq, energy, tax policy, responsible funding of social programs ... pretty much down the list of issues that matter to people, Obama's position is a better match. And Obama has drawn much stronger crowds when campaigning in Wisconsin than McCain has.


You could be right (none / 0) (#6)
by cmugirl on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:14:01 PM EST

But my guess is that no one, except die hards, are really paying attention here in the dog days of summer (and won't pay attention until after the conventions). I think a lot of those numbers will shift in the fall. I think this will be a close election (either way) and that's before any Karl Rove / October surprise that we all know is coming.


: I was thinking, heck, it's summer (none / 0) (#15)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:39:21 PM EST

as well. Too much fun in the sun being had here to get much of anyone's attention.
Plus, the big news today was Favre, not the Packer greats of the past. I.e., whether he's in the past.

You're in Mad City, correct, TChris? (none / 0) (#9)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:20:40 PM EST

I think that we see different Wisconsins, between Mad City and Milwaukee, in so many things -- and that both of us are far, far from Hudson. And if you've seen Hudson, that's hokay, ain'a hey? :-)

Seriously, I think we have no idea yet here. Neither candidate has been here much at all -- Obama was in, what, Milwaukee and Madison in the primary and then came back recently to, wait for it, Kaukauna. Gorgeous area, historic to the max, but that's Joe McCarthy country. So is Waukesha, and I recall that Obama was there. A fruitless effort.:-)

McCain may have been here even less, of course -- although heading to "up north" here may pay off, as that's probably not friendly country for Obama.

Basically, I want to see more polls, and local polls, as I bet you do, too. Obama is a better match in many ways, but McCain in some ways. And this state has been so darn close in recent elections that, well, there are many months ahead.


for the moment. (none / 0) (#48)
by cpinva on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 12:16:57 AM EST

Obama is positioned where most Wisconsin voters are on health care, Iraq, energy, tax policy, responsible funding of social programs ... pretty much down the list of issues that matter to people, Obama's position is a better match.

given the senator's past and recent history, these could all change in a heartbeat, so i wouldn't go counting your cheeseheads before they hatch.

btw, should you happen to find yourself in madison of a saturday morning, avail yourself of the most wonderful farmer's market in the known universe (assuming it still exists), encircling the state capitol bldg.

you can literally eat and drink your way around the entire circumfrence, with free samples of the tastiest beverages, meats, cheeses and veggies known to man.

it's a national treasure!


: It exists. (none / 0) (#49)
by TChris on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 01:05:17 AM EST

Still goes all the way around the capitol square. Gotta get up dreadfully early if you want to shop before the best stuff is gone.

Ha. That's Vikings country! (none / 0) (#7)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:14:36 PM EST

McCain was in Hudson, essentially a suburb of the Twin Cities. Our "west coast" of Wisconsin on the Mississippi is far from our "east coast" on Lake Michigan. Our "west coast" is Vikings country.

So McCain may have scored points with the Packers haters there . . . while the attention to this, with the reruns of the McCain movie scene showing him reciting Packers greats' names to his torturers may score him more points with Packers fans.

Seriously, who cares -- there was a Kerry sports flub here, too, that the media thought was huge, and it mattered not. We really vote on more important matters here.

Consider that KO tried to make this a big deal tonight on Countdown, and even Mr. So-Called Sports Expert doesn't get the differences in sports-team allegiances here. 'Nuff said.


Vikings Country? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by TChris on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:23:44 PM EST

I lived on the west coast of Wisconsin in my youth, eleven miles from where McCain spoke today. The town was full of Packers fans even though the only games we could get on TV were Vikings games. Twice a year the Packers played the Vikings and nearly everybody I knew rooted for the Packers (although in those days Fran Tarkenton would usually decimate the Pack). Supporting the Vikings would have resulted in social ostracism.


: Really? Lots of folks I know there (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:28:03 PM EST

never would have a kind word for the Packers. My dad was from up that way, so lots of relatives there, plus lots of colleagues and friends since.
I suspect we are seeing a typical Wisconsin thing -- it's who you know, and on which hill in which town. I have been to so many towns up north where one ethnic group settled on one hill, another group on another hill -- and/or just as much marked by religions, with "Cat'lic Hill" and "Lut'ran Hill."
Keillor got it right in his skits about being able to tell which faith a family was by which car it drove, as the Cat'lics went to the Ford dealer, the Lut'rans to the Buick dealer. His family being neither, they had true religious and automotive freedom.:-)

I'd add, hey, he didn't say duh Bearsss (none / 0) (#11)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:24:20 PM EST

as if McCain had mixed up the Packers and Bears, he might not have survived to get out of town, much less surviving the gaffe in the campaign. Even the west coasters, far from Chicago, know it's a no-no.

Wisconsin slogan: We're Not A Lot of Things, But At Least We're Not Chicago.


I don't believe it's a deal (none / 0) (#2)
by zfran on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:56:07 PM EST

breaker. Maybe a big faux paus, but I think the gist of the story was that he was tortured. Perhaps he does embelish on that story each city he tells it in, but it's still stands as a good story.

The Packers. (none / 0) (#8)
by oldpro on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:19:57 PM EST

Huh.

I quit paying attention when their 'Golden Boy' got caught cheating.

Still like the cheese, tho...and the fireflies...

: The fireflies are back in force (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by Cream City on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:42:27 PM EST

in the last few years, with the cleaning up of our rivers in Milwaukee (and thus the entire watershed). It's wonderful. I grew up in the town named Little Firefly -- that's the translation from the First Nations' name for it -- and used to have them by the hundreds every night. We're up to a dozen or so at a time now, and that's okay. I'm too old to chase and catch them in a peanut butter jar. :-)

November is a long way off (none / 0) (#14)
by Prabhata on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:38:50 PM EST

And nobody is going to remember this story. Besides, I don't want to believe that a football story has that much weight into how women vote. McCain will have the women.

I was born in, spent most of my life in, (none / 0) (#20)
by kenosharick on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 09:08:25 PM EST

and most of my family is still in Wisconsin. I wonder how far ahead Gore& Kerrey were in July. Both of those races finished in a dead heat. The repubs have not even rolled out their big guns yet. All those who think Wis. is in the bag for Obama are REALLY naive- or not thinking this through. Early July polls mean nothing!!! I still say it will be very close and am predicting mccain squeaks out a win in Wis. If I am wrong (quite possible),Obama wins with no more than 52-53% of the vote.

: Obama is well ahead (none / 0) (#50)
by Cream City on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 07:48:40 AM EST

of where Gore and Kerry were in June in their years, from what I can find -- I'm not finding comparates for July, but I doubt it would be much different.
Why? The swiftboating of Kerry came later. As it may again this year. If not, Obama may do well in Wisconsin -- as long as the Repubs don't run 527s. Y'know, as long as the Repubs don't do business as usual.

McSame's just BS'ing again - and why (none / 0) (#53)
by scribe on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 04:31:12 PM EST

my statement is true....

He was shot down in the mid-1960s, 1965 or 1966 IIRC.

No one not a deeply serious football fan would have even known who the members of the Pittsburgh Steelers' defensive line (or defense or offense, for that matter) were in the mid-1960s, for the simple reasons that (a) the team stank and few people not in Pittsburgh followed them (they couldn't give tickets away) and (b) the players got changed (as on all lousy teams) about as frequently as most people change their underwear. Sad (esp. for this loyal Stillers fan) to say, the Pittsburgh Steelers did not ever reach the post-season from the team's founding in the early 30s until 1973. They were a perennial doormat. It was only beginning at that time (after drafting Terry Bradshaw and Franco Harris and then having following that with one of the most amazing drafts of all time in 1973-1974) that they became good, then great, and got positive attention outside Western Pa.

There has never been any indication that McSame was a serious or even knowledgeable fan of football. He was, as he likes to remind us, a Navy brat. He had no ties to Pittsburgh.

More trenchantly McCain was, like the rest of the POWs, released from captivity in 1973. He re-entered the world at that time. But, while in captivity, any knowledge he would have had about football (or any other aspect of pop culture) would have been that of a 1965-66 model fly trapped in amber. I recall a lot of commentary at that time about the former POWs having to adjust to all the changes the 60s had wrought. Shoot, I even remember a Movie of the Week in which the guy had been captured in 1965, came back in 1973, and expected his girl to be the same as before (i.e., unexposed to Womens' Lib), played 1965 music (had no idea what Woodstock was), and thought a crew cut still stylish.

No, this episode was McSame BS'ing the Pittsburgh audience, pandering to them, and showing himself not only to be a liar, but a bad, inept one.