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Anyone Watching Obama's Speech?

It's on now. He's talking about change.

Reactions?

Update: Soundbite from the speech: "My two daughters see themselves differently because Hillary ran for President."

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  • Display: Sort:
    O rly? (5.00 / 13) (#1)
    by Pieter B on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:23:33 PM EST
    It's on now. He's talking about change.

    I've seen that one.

    Have you seen the Hope one? (5.00 / 13) (#7)
    by rooge04 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:31:48 PM EST
    I'm glad I'm not the only one not grabbing the (5.00 / 15) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:35:26 PM EST
    remote.  I was watching soccer and I continue to watch soccer.  It's my bitterness ruining things.  Where's my gun damn it?

    Parent
    I gotta get to church! (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by rooge04 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:37:44 PM EST
    I don't even have those to cling to.... (5.00 / 8) (#76)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:08:24 PM EST
    ....all I've got is my bitterness.

    Parent
    Here's a change: Obama wants Bill (5.00 / 10) (#29)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:46:42 PM EST
    on the campaign trail with him.  The racist Bill Clinton is supposed to carry his bags?

    Don't do it, Bill.  This guy's baggage is more than anyone can handle -- and it could smear anyone around him.

    I am more disgusted by the day with Obama.  By November, at this rate, he will rank in my mind with . . . well, I won't say it on this blog.

    Parent

    They want Bill (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by Emma on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:04:41 PM EST
    But not Hillary.  It is the boys' club.  I hope Bill doesn't play.

    Parent
    Bill? The guy that was part of the Clinton-Bush (5.00 / 8) (#87)
    by rooge04 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:14:26 PM EST
    years of economic hardship and Washington in-fighting? That Bill?  Bill the buffoon who's also a racist?  Or the Bill that tarred and feathered him as the Black Candidate in SC?  Surely not THAT Bill.

    Parent
    Don't worry, Bill won't be dealing with Obama (5.00 / 0) (#183)
    by stefystef on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:29:26 PM EST
    or his cronies.  After what they did to him during this campaign?  Vilifying the only Democratic President in 28 years and you treat him like s%*&?  Bill won't have a damn thing to do with helping Obama or the Democratic Party at this point.

    Bill will go back to what he does best, giving speeches and re-connecting with truly loyal people.  

    Obama won't have William Jefferson Clinton to kick around anymore.

    Parent

    I'd vote for an Obama/George Clinton ticket (3.00 / 0) (#102)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:19:52 PM EST
    But I'd prefer a Clinton=Clinton one, working the One Nation Under a Groove unity.

    Parent
    Wha? (5.00 / 4) (#84)
    by Fabian on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:11:34 PM EST
    The guy he didn't want to acknowledge in any positive way?

    And the OFB have a lot of things to say about Bill, and none of them nice.

    Perhaps Obama should have set a positive narrative re: The Clintons during the primary.  It's been a very long primary and a lot of people have been paying attention.  I think the conventional wisdom is that what happens during a primary doesn't really count and no one remembers it anyway.

    Not this time....

    Parent

    Yep, here's the link (5.00 / 6) (#92)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:16:26 PM EST
    to the story.  A few fun tidbits:

    BRISTOW, Va. - Barack Obama is looking forward to campaigning with a pair of Clintons this summer and fall. But don't bother asking if he'll pick the Clinton he just defeated as his running mate.

    Fielding questions on his campaign plane over Virginia, Obama heaped praise on Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York, his vanquished Democratic rival, pronouncing himself "grateful for her support." He also said he expected to mend fences with her husband, former President Bill Clinton, who criticized Obama sharply at times during the primary season.

    "Bill Clinton is an enormous talent," Obama said, "and I would welcome him campaigning for us. . . ."  [Obama also] predicted he and [Hillary Clinton] will appear together soon. "She ran a magnificent campaign," he said. "She inspired millions of people. . . ."

    Pop the popcorn.  Obama and the Racists' Tour to Heal and Bring Hopey-Hope to America, Okey-Doke!

    Parent

    I can't stand it (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Burned on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:20:01 PM EST
    I'm going to explode.

    Parent
    Cream City, you rock n/t (5.00 / 0) (#108)
    by Valhalla on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:22:30 PM EST
    "his vanquished Democratic rival"? (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:32:31 PM EST
    "vanquished"?! How about former rival instead?


    He also said he expected to mend fences with her husband, former President Bill Clinton, who criticized Obama sharply at times during the primary season.

    Gee, I wonder why Bill criticized him . . . .

    I'm so glad I have many things to keep me busy and away from seeing this if it happens.

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#132)
    by standingup on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:36:08 PM EST
    That is a change I am having difficulty believing in myself. I would not be surprised at all to see both Clintons helping campaign for Obama and other Democrats because that is they are loyal party Democrats. The way Obama casually assumes that he can walk all over people and their reputations, from his grandmother to the Clintons and a whole lot of people in between, is one of the reasons I seem him as an opportunistic, character lacking politician.

    Parent
    That's fascinating... (5.00 / 5) (#133)
    by kredwyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:36:14 PM EST
    We've been hearing about how racist they are for the past 6 months.

    Now...all of a sudden, they aren't that racist after all.

    Wonder what all those folks who really believed the racist spin are going to think...

    Parent

    Haven't you figured it out yet? (4.42 / 7) (#139)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:37:43 PM EST
    ...Once you support Obama, you have atoned for your racism.

    Parent
    Barbara Ehrericher (sp) (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by tek on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:45:03 PM EST
    actually said that.

    Parent
    Hey (5.00 / 3) (#155)
    by tek on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:45:53 PM EST
    I just figured out, that's why I can't support Obama, I'm not racist!

    Parent
    Awesome news! (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Democratic Cat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:06:07 PM EST
    So now that we have solved America's racial problems by selecting an AA nominee, can we get to work on America's sexism problem? Please?

    Parent
    He'll fix that next (none / 0) (#209)
    by zebedee on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:20:55 PM EST
    He can't do everything at once, give him a little time. He had to fix the race problems first. Now that that's all done he can turn his attention to sexism. Then comes the class barriers. America will be such a wonderful place to be in 2009 and we will be so grateful we didn't end up with that divisive woman.

    Parent
    I think Bill is looking tired, and not well. (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by FlaDemFem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:33:40 PM EST
    I think he should take a break from campaigning, at least until Christmas. Unless Hillary gets the nomination, of course. Heh. Why should he wear himself out campaigning for Obama before the nomination is official?? I think he should go on vacation until August. Then if the convention confirms Obama's nomination, he should go back on vacation. He doesn't owe Obama, or the Democratic Party, a damn thing. He certainly doesn't owe them the grind that campaigning is, even if he does enjoy it. He doesn't owe anybody anything. So, I hope he goes on a well-deserved vacation. Hillary should do weekend appearances between her Senate commitments. Like a good little Dem. Other than that, I don't see that Obama can reasonably expect them to do anything for him. I sure wouldn't under the same circumstances.

    Parent
    Didn't Bill say in South Dakota.... (5.00 / 4) (#135)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:36:22 PM EST
    ...that it was his last day of campaigning? Hope he means it. He actually does have more important things to do.

    Parent
    I wonder which Hillary (5.00 / 6) (#204)
    by mikeyleigh on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:11:13 PM EST
    makes his daughters see themselves differently:  the racist Hillary, the do anything to win Hillary, the lying Hillary, the partisan Hillary etc.?

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by miguelito on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:28:02 PM EST
    good one, Jeralyn!

    You're kidding! (5.00 / 11) (#3)
    by lambert on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:28:28 PM EST
    Is it the kind of change we can believe in?

    Or some other kind of change?

    Well... (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by rooge04 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:37:11 PM EST
    there's the Change We Can Believe In followed by the Change Coming to Washington followed by Hope and more Change. So really, you know...some change.

    Parent
    There's (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by cmugirl on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:45:52 PM EST
    a homeless man I see every day when I get on and off the Metro who asks for change - maybe that's what he's talking about?  </snark>

    Parent
    From the Onion (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by reslez on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:53:59 PM EST
    Obama vs Change was parodied in The Onion: Black Guy Asks Nation For Change

    Parent
    My (none / 0) (#150)
    by tek on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:43:26 PM EST
    husband read it to me.  Hilarious!

    Parent
    Think Obama can connect (none / 0) (#152)
    by samanthasmom on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:44:15 PM EST
    I guess so. (none / 0) (#42)
    by reslez on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:52:05 PM EST
    I was reading McCain's speech (the one from Tuesday) and the repeated refrain was "That's change we can't believe in".

    It's fairly clear what the battlelines will be.

    Think Obama has enough substance and media lickability to win that narrative?  I look forward to finding out.

    Parent

    lickability?!?! (none / 0) (#181)
    by dws3665 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:27:23 PM EST
    In a word: ew.

    Parent
    how can he change the country... (5.00 / 9) (#4)
    by Arjun on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:28:58 PM EST
    if he can't change his speeches?

    Right on! (none / 0) (#185)
    by stefystef on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:34:48 PM EST
    Thank you.  

    Parent
    I haven't changed enough yet to watch him. (5.00 / 10) (#5)
    by Burned on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:29:44 PM EST
    I'm busy doing the Obama mind meld thing to myself.

    Maybe (5.00 / 16) (#8)
    by Blue Jean on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:32:46 PM EST
    We should all do a drinking game; drink a shot every time he says "Change." By the time he's finished, we'll all be so smashed we won't care what he says.

    The speech only sounds good if it is a shot of (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by honora on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:35:39 PM EST
    koolaid that you take.

    Parent
    You can put some moonshine in... (5.00 / 0) (#78)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:10:48 PM EST
    ...my koolaid. Now that I'm an appalachian Puerto Rican, I'll have to get used to it.

    Parent
    Puerto Rican Hillbilly? (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:26:35 PM EST
    Well I'm a post-sexual latino jewish female hillbilly. We could have some party!

    And I remember after 2000 we were black voters in the Banana Republic. We are Legion, I guess......

    Parent

    We can party like its 1999. (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:39:53 PM EST
    I think I'm 'just' a post-sexual, racist (none / 0) (#134)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:36:21 PM EST
    typical old white woman. But there are plenty of hillbillies and garlic noses in my 'hood and I have roots in both . . .  ;)

    Parent
    To quote a previous Obama supporter's post (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by blogtopus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:34:15 PM EST
    He won. Deal with it.

    We are in our own special way.

    The kind of change I needed (5.00 / 10) (#13)
    by blogtopus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:35:40 PM EST
    was to change my channel.

    I'm not ready for the Obama (TM) Bloviating yet. I'll wait until October or thereabouts.

    He's going to have to do a lot more (5.00 / 8) (#14)
    by clbrune on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:35:47 PM EST
    This is his major weakness: a lot of people want facts, not slogans.

    That's Clinton's strength (IMO).  People overlook how significantly she complements his rhetoric with detail and professionalism.

    <sigh>

    He's going to have to do a lot more (5.00 / 7) (#169)
    by pcronin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:01:35 PM EST
    "This is his major weakness: a lot of people want facts, not slogans. ... That's Clinton's strength (IMO).  People overlook how significantly she complements his rhetoric with detail and professionalism."
    ~~~~~~~

    Obama is the Presumptive Nominee. He should be strong enough to win on his own merits.

    For Hillary to rescue him by being the wonk with a heart for the people ... which he is not ... that's just another instance of the man being promoted over a more qualified woman... and then have her as his "right hand man" when he doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

    There were jokes about how often he pushed the wrong button when voting in the Illinois legislature ... well let's see if he continues the trend.

    Hillary will endorse him and being the loyal Democrat she is - she will campaign for him. But to be on the ticket as VP in order to complement his weaknesses ... God I'm really struggling with that one!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Better idea: She suspends her campaign, keeps her delegates and maybe by the convention HIS weaknesses will be more apparent and his orneriness will catch up to him so delegates & supers will reconsider and place her at the top of the Democratic ticket like it should have been as the outcome of this election cycle.

    34,829,191 voters in 39 Primaries got it right, why didn't the Super's?
    ~~~
    39 Primaries: 34,829,191 total votes
    Hillary: 17,657,517
    Barack:  17,171,674

    Clinton + 485,843 votes
    Clinton + 44.5 Net Delegates
    ~~~
    13 Caucuses: 1,057,036 votes
    Barack:  678,452
    Hillary: 378,684

    Barack + 299,768 votes
    Barack + 206 Net Delegates
    ~~~

    Final election data:
    Clinton:    18,046,271 votes
    Obama:   17,869,497 votes

    Clinton + 176,774 votes
    Obama + 165.5 Net Delegates

    The 34.8 million citizen voters in 39 Primaries got it right.

    Maybe by the convention so will the Party.

    In the meanwhile, let him iron his own shirts!
    --peniel cronin

    Parent

    This is a familiar role for her (none / 0) (#168)
    by 1040su on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:58:00 PM EST
    Your last sentence hits the nail on the head!  You know, in watching the Obamas I've often thought how their relationship seems to mirror that of the Clintons.  In both cases you have a man who articulates a "big vision" with beautiful sounding platitudes and feel good rhetoric.  Behind the scenes is a strong woman with an eye for details - "An Implementer."  I think Michele fills that same role for her husband.  That's also why I think the relationship between the 2 women would be strained.  I know this won't be popular, but I kind of like Michelle Obama.  I think she's a tough woman too.  

    I so wanted this for Hillary!  She spent 30+ years in the shadows, pushing her husband's agenda, helping him realize his dreams.  It was her turn to take the wheel & drive the car.  It will take some time to come to terms with this.  If she's on the ticket, I will feel more comfortable voting for Obama because of her strengths - her ability to be the adult supervision. As it stands today, for the 1st time since I started voting for President in 1976, I will not cast a vote for President of the United States. I will however vote for all down ticket Dems.

    Parent

    Now, we all have to admit to being tickled (5.00 / 7) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:37:28 PM EST
    these past three days watching McCain throwing "change" around too.  Where were all these changing men the last time I had a tot in pampers?

    All we need now is the speech (5.00 / 0) (#119)
    by Grace on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:30:45 PM EST
    from McCain:

    "I have a son who is Obama's age.  When he was little, he wanted change too."

    Parent

    Sometimes I think (5.00 / 21) (#20)
    by dk on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:38:28 PM EST
    that the worst thing about Obama potentially being president is that for another 4 or 8 years I can't watch the president of my country make a speech.  Watching Obama speak is just as sickening as watching Bush speak.  They both just sound so lame.

    I realize that millions of people disagree with me, but surely I can't be the only one..am I?

    You're not the only one ... (5.00 / 10) (#32)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:47:14 PM EST
    but unlike Bush, Obama's voice can lull you to sleep.

    Only problem, when you wake he's usually still talking.

    Parent

    Oh, if it just made me sleepy (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by dk on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:50:24 PM EST
    I could deal with it.  

    Parent
    If you (4.66 / 3) (#69)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:03:11 PM EST
    want to add some excitement to his speech... start counting the number of "um" sounds he makes.

    Parent
    and NEVER use "um"* for a drinking game (none / 0) (#80)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:11:19 PM EST
    alcohol poisoning anyone?

    *"uh" . . . is just as dangerous  :)

    Parent

    Ditto. So -- no change there (5.00 / 11) (#36)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:49:09 PM EST
    and we'll just not listen to a word from our president for four more years.  It has helped me get through almost eight years already, plus the last few months of just muting Obama because I can't stand his lecturing style, so what's a few more years?

    Parent
    OMG! (5.00 / 4) (#131)
    by tek on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:35:56 PM EST
    It isn't just me!  LECTURING, that's what the guy does.  He scolds and lectures and criticizes, always telling us how we don't meet his expectations.  Hey, I'm Unitarian, I don't even listen to that crap from my minister.

    And then we'll have Michelle to constantly tell us that all white people are racists and the only way to atone for it is to give her and Barack whatever they want.

    Parent

    Well, I teach, so I know it when I see it (none / 0) (#210)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:26:12 PM EST
    and attempt to avoid doing it.  But the traditional lecture is still standard in law schools, so that's all that Obama knows -- that and the preachy style, Southern style, which is fake since he is not a Southerner.  Put up a Youtube of him and Jesse Jackson or MLK, and you'll see the difference.

    Parent
    lecturing and sermonizing (none / 0) (#199)
    by noholib on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:05:04 PM EST
    The lecturing sounds like sermonizing and also hectoring.  I don't find it inspiring anymore (I did a little at one time.) Why couldn't he smile Tuesday night?  And why did he have to SHOUT so much at the end?  

    Parent
    same here (5.00 / 7) (#55)
    by miguelito on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:56:47 PM EST
    I get that same visceral, disgusted feeling that I get from watching and listening to Bush and unfortunately that is just the beginning of the similarities

    Parent
    You too? (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by DarielK on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:33:25 PM EST
    I thought I was the only one that couldn't stand to listen to him speak - he really is so much like Bush.  

    Parent
    You're not alone (5.00 / 3) (#176)
    by RalphB on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:10:37 PM EST
    I'm already supporting McCain for President.  If Obama keeps on with these speeches, I may not even vote for the down ticket dems.  They disgust me.


    Parent
    Oh Dear (5.00 / 4) (#145)
    by tek on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:39:42 PM EST
    We'll never be able to watch the campaign because Plouffe said yesterday that Obama wants to do Lincoln/Douglas type debates:  each candidate will talk for an HOUR (that's right, and HOUR) and then they'll each get a rebuttal.  

    Parent
    Please tell me that was a joke. (5.00 / 4) (#171)
    by MMW on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:06:57 PM EST
    I don't watch any kind of news anymore, just because there is a possibility they will show an excerpt of one of his speeches. I'm strictly internet news. I even check weather forecasts online.

    Parent
    I won't be (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by pie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:38:43 PM EST
    watching him until the campaign heats up.  I want to see how he's going to respond to the republican attacks and see if he has grace under pressure, if he has what it takes to be the POTUS.

    Until then, I figure he's still on his honeymoon and that's unexciting for the rest of us.

    Change, huh? (5.00 / 15) (#22)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:40:57 PM EST
    How historic - I am so sorry to be missing it, but the beauty is that even without TIVO or a DVR, I'm pretty sure I can hear it again.  And again.  And maybe, again.

    Maybe if someone records it and plays it backwards, we will discover the hidden message: I am Oz, the Great and Powerful...

    And me without my ruby slippers...damn!

    Thank you, Anne,I absolutely (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:42:51 PM EST
    cannot stop laughing.

    Parent
    lol, this may not be so bad after all. My (5.00 / 6) (#25)
    by Teresa on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:44:18 PM EST
    stomach hurts from laughing at this thread.

    Parent
    I thought (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by cmugirl on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:16:25 PM EST
    we would hear "Paul is dead".

    Parent
    You (5.00 / 9) (#23)
    by sas on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:41:52 PM EST
    are not the only one.

    After 8 years of yelling obscenities as the President speaks.....I can look forward to at least 4 years of

    yelling obscenities as the President speaks.

    I (5.00 / 8) (#26)
    by cmugirl on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:45:08 PM EST
    can't turn the channel fast enough when Bush or Obama is on TV.  I guess I will have to get my news from TL and other sources because I can't stand to watch another smarmy guy on TV.

    Parent
    I'm (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by tek on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:41:08 PM EST
    so glad I violated my pledge to swear off all political sites and came here.  This is the first time I've laughed since Tuesday.  

    Parent
    Hoping For Change... (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by AlladinsLamp on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:45:38 PM EST
    I've been hoping Mr. Obama would change his stump speech for awhile now.

    It's becoming stale.

    Change (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:46:50 PM EST
    I like that old Sheryl Crow song about "a change, would do you good..."

    Maybe someone can tell the speechwriters at Obama Inc that the change speech needs changing.

    Then there's the song I heard last night (none / 0) (#50)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:54:28 PM EST
    at Menopause, the Musical:

    "Change, change, change, change of life. . . ." to the tune of "Chain of Fools" -- and that's the theme song of the Democratic Party these days.

    Parent

    I saw him get a walking stick (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by bjorn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:46:59 PM EST
    from an older man and Obama said he would use it to whup congress if they do not pass my health care plan.

    That's pretty funny... (none / 0) (#170)
    by kredwyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:02:51 PM EST
    but I seriously doubt it'll happen.

    Parent
    Seriously? (5.00 / 5) (#33)
    by cmugirl on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:47:39 PM EST
    Soundbite from the speech: "My two daughters see themselves differently because Hillary ran for President."

    His two daughters are something like 9 and 6 - they don't really have any idea what the President is, let alone the historic nature of Hillary running.  Daddy just told them they will get to live in the WH and they get to get a dog.

    Shrug (5.00 / 15) (#41)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:51:47 PM EST
    It's for the best.  Old enough to understand that a woman ran for President, young enough that they don't understand how she was treated for doing it.

    Parent
    Oh, that left mark. (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by Fabian on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:00:18 PM EST
    Old enough to understand is when they are old enough to understand that the latest pop idol is really just the product of a slick marketing campaign.

    I really was thinking the prescandal(s) Britney Spears - really!  (My niece came of age during that time and I was so relieved to hear that she couldn't stand Ms. Spears.)

    Parent

    They will learn about it in books (5.00 / 4) (#65)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:01:25 PM EST
    being written right now.  And then, won't he have some 'splaining to do. . . .

    Parent
    Maybe (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:07:29 PM EST
    To date, I'm finding there isn't much of a market for telling the truth about this primary.

    Parent
    I've already heard a talk (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:10:59 PM EST
    by one scholar with a work in progress on this.  And I think Sean Willentz' works throughout may mean that he's writing a book about the smear campaign -- and with this stature, anything he writes will get published, read, and referenced for years to come.

    And those are just the ones I know of well, while I've heard (on academic listservs) of several other articles, studies, etc., in the works.  These may not be the bestsellers, although I would bet those would sell, too.  But books there will be to be found. . . .

    Parent

    No wonder (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by tek on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:32:33 PM EST
    the academics love him--their making millions!

    Parent
    And he, not she, is "change" (5.00 / 8) (#48)
    by Davidson on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:53:18 PM EST
    So how could his daughters possibly see themselves differently?  Oh, and not to mention what father would want their children to look up to a woman who's "in her element" when she's supposedly twisting a knife in someone's back?

    His campaign of exploiting and even reveling in anti-female hate just makes me twitch in rage whenever I see or hear him.

    Parent

    He's started saying this lately. (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:15:30 PM EST
    What a crock. How does his typical white grandma feel about this primary and Hillary I wonder?

    Parent
    We're sending an interviewer (5.00 / 4) (#157)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:47:46 PM EST
    to crawl under the bus for a comment -- back after the commercial with that exclusive for you, stay tuned. :-)

    Parent
    The Lesson That Can Be Taken From Hillary's (5.00 / 14) (#101)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:19:40 PM EST
    presidential run is that you can be ten times as knowledgeable and work ten times harder and the new inexperienced guy will get the job. The media, your opponents and your party will rather make fun of your laugh, your dress or anything else that identifies you as a women than talk about what skills you have to offer.

    It is a good thing that Obama's daughters are too young to realize the real lesson taught in 2008 and their father's role in teaching it.

    Save the rhetoric Obama for someone who is buying it.

    Parent

    Another lesson.... (5.00 / 6) (#111)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:24:03 PM EST
    ....and there will always be enough other women around to pile again against you so that the boys can claim that its not all women, just you.

    Parent
    That's right. Teach your daughters that the (5.00 / 7) (#112)
    by rooge04 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:24:25 PM EST
    less-qualified man usually always gets the job over the more qualified woman.

    Parent
    that's the lesson (5.00 / 3) (#177)
    by ccpup on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:12:05 PM EST
    my young nieces are taking from this.  Their thought now is "why work hard to do anything when the boy who doesn't deserve it is just going to take it away?"

    I find it hard to disagree with them, but I try to remind them it won't always be this way.  And they just roll their eyes at me.

    Oh well.  I AM only the crazy uncle who takes them on great shopping trips.

    :-)

    Parent

    There is (none / 0) (#159)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:48:47 PM EST
    a glass ceiling in the Oval Office.

    I don't know what it will take to break it.

    Parent

    A Republican Woman (5.00 / 3) (#175)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:09:24 PM EST
    As much as I hate their policies, they would never let the media attack a Republican woman presidential candidate like the Dems did Hillary. The fact that the either stood silently by or jumped gleefully into to fray on attacking Hillary as a woman is one of the many reasons I will not be voting for Obama in November. I refuse to sanction that behavior with my vote.

    Parent
    Seems obvious now (5.00 / 2) (#179)
    by RalphB on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:18:10 PM EST
    that, unless Hillary can run in 2012, the first woman president will be a Republican.  The GOP will have their head on a plate if any media tries to do something like this to their woman candidate.  You can put that in the bank.


    Parent
    Correction about the dog (5.00 / 6) (#113)
    by wurman on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:25:05 PM EST
    The Obama girls get ponies, unity ponies.

    And they can put the cardboard tubes from Christmas gift paper on the ponies' foreheads.  Then wrap the tubes with aluminum foil.  Then they will be unicorns.

    Unity unicorns, yeah, that's it.  Unitykorns.

    Parent

    "Unitykorns" -- wonderful, Wurman! (none / 0) (#122)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:31:13 PM EST
    Cue the Irish Rovers . . . (none / 0) (#140)
    by wurman on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:38:22 PM EST
    . . .some cats and rats and elephants
    But sure as you're born,
    You'll never see no unitykorns.

    With my sincere, humble & abject apologies to the incredible Shel Silverstein, lyricist & general genius.

    Parent

    My daughter's favorite song (none / 0) (#156)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:46:21 PM EST
    for me to sing to her, while she cuddled with her My Little Pony unitykorn.:-)  I've got to go find that in the packed-away toys and put it on my desk for whenever Obama comes on tv, so I can do what she did and make the unitykorn pony dance, dance, dance or it would be a bad, bad, bad pony!

    Parent
    You know it's a really good day for me (none / 0) (#167)
    by wurman on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:57:37 PM EST
    if some silly comment brings up a lovely memory like that for you.

    With all the weirdness swirling around us, it will be necessary to have a grand sense of humor, fond memories & a child-like acceptance that things may somehow work out OK.

    Parent

    If his two daughters saw the OFB (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by Davidson on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:47:51 PM EST
    They'd see their father differently.

    Yah, I bet (5.00 / 10) (#35)
    by dk on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:48:34 PM EST
    his daughters think differently.  They probably think "wow, my dad was complicit in the malign acceptance of sexism."

    good point (5.00 / 5) (#44)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:52:13 PM EST
    a question i hope that one of his sweet daughters asks Obama is, "Dad, how would you feel if someone treated us the way you treated Hillary when she was running against you?"

    I usually don't like to mention the kiddos. To me they are off limits, but I don't think that this comment was too vitriolic.

    Parent

    They'll never know (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:55:21 PM EST
    The winners write the history books.

    Parent
    Nah, all anyone has to do (none / 0) (#118)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:29:37 PM EST
    to turn that around is write history books, and then they'll be winners.  Works for me. :-)

    Parent
    I agree (4.80 / 5) (#51)
    by JustJennifer on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:54:46 PM EST
    kids are off limits but if he is going to try and use his daughters to make women think he cares then commenting on his comments is fair game.

    Parent
    It's part of the Obama narrative (5.00 / 6) (#73)
    by Fabian on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:07:07 PM EST
    "My kids convinced me to support Obama."

    Now it's:
    "Obama's kids convinced me to support Obama."

    I think people have it right - Obama's campaign is going feature the kids prominently.  

    Parent

    That daughter line sure is getting used a lot. (5.00 / 5) (#38)
    by Teresa on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:49:43 PM EST
    I guess his daughters like divisive women. I wish he would say why he admires Hillary and not why his daughters or other women benefit from her being in the race. Is that all she represented to him and his speechwriters? A woman ran and that's it?

    It's the only way he knows... (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by Dawn Davenport on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:15:14 PM EST
    ...how to pander to Hillary's supporters, as if we'll all fall into a fawning heap of "Awww, isn't that sweet, he has children with XX chromosomes!"

    Because, of course, Hillary's chromosomal composition was the only reason we supported her.

    Parent

    It also points out (none / 0) (#96)
    by cmugirl on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:17:37 PM EST
    that he is "young" (with small children),whereas Hillary (and now McCain) are old.

    Parent
    Yes. Old and post-sexual. (none / 0) (#162)
    by derridog on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:50:59 PM EST
    Daughters and Wives (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Valhalla on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:33:33 PM EST
    When criticisms of sexism and misogyny finally started popping up in MSM, Obama's response was to lecture Republicans for showing videos of his wife's "Proud (Now) to be an American" shtick.

    So, sadly, I do think that his understanding of Clinton's historic campaign (and what all those b*tchy, weepy white women are so upset about) has his wife and kids as the outside border.

    Parent

    I can just picture it now,,, (5.00 / 4) (#190)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:43:51 PM EST
    The Obama family, gathered before the fireplace, little girls cuddled, one on each side of Michelle... one of them looks up at her mother, eyes full of adoration, and says,

    Mommy, tell us that story again, the one where we can be whatever we want, as long as there isn't a less qualified man who wants it, too...you know, the one that starts...Once upon a time, there was a man named Barack and a woman named Hillary...

    Really, what will we tell the children?

    Parent

    picture it now ... the little girls dreaming (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by noholib on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:17:25 PM EST
    well said, Anne.  Thanks for the beginning of another beautiful fairy tale.  Now I can rest tonight.  Actually I am disgusted by this patronizing narcissistic comment of his: so Senator Clinton went through all this and so did her supporters, women and men, and so did the party and country -- and in an ugly sexist and misogynist drama that may well have set women's rights back (considerably I fear) -- all in order to benefit his two darling daughters?!!  Please, spare me.  
    The change I want tonight is to watch the Celtics-Lakers game.  

    Parent
    if he was on my teevee (5.00 / 10) (#40)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:51:41 PM EST
    the only important change would be to the channel.

    I don't appreciate the pander. (5.00 / 6) (#43)
    by masslib on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:52:10 PM EST
    If I were him, I'd stick to change, which really isn't saying much.

    Bah (5.00 / 5) (#46)
    by JustJennifer on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:52:48 PM EST
    Pandering is almost as dull as recycling the same speech.  He is going to have to get off the soaring rhetoric bus soon or he will become a parody of himself.

    Won't most females feel (5.00 / 13) (#47)
    by waldenpond on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:52:55 PM EST
    different about themselves after this?  

    I can only hope his daughters never have to learn from this particular type of lesson.

    I hope those two girls (5.00 / 6) (#66)
    by pie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:02:37 PM EST
    turn out as well as Chelsea Clinton.

    Parent
    Yeh, Obama better watch it (none / 0) (#160)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:48:58 PM EST
    or David Shuster will say he's pimpin' his daughters.

    Parent
    Towering oratory gets real old real fast (5.00 / 4) (#52)
    by RonK Seattle on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:55:05 PM EST
    People forget - in JFK's day, "the news" was 15 minutes a night weekdays, and a half hour of Meet the Press on Sundays.

    right (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:57:07 PM EST
    I think by november most people are going to be SO over it.

    Parent
    He used towering oratory at AIPAC (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by catfish on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:16:33 PM EST
    In a limited size conference room the golf clap just didn't fill his pauses the way the cheering crowds do in stadiums.

    Parent
    ... to a campaign meeting!!!

    Parent
    Where were you living?? (none / 0) (#148)
    by FlaDemFem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:41:51 PM EST
    We watched 1/2 hour of local news and then one half hour of national news, usually with Walter Cronkite for the national. The local was produced and staffed by the local station, and most of the national news came out of New York. At least that's where the broadcast originated. Then there was 60 Minutes which was one of the best news shows ever back then.  Of course, we lived outside Washington, DC, so we might have had a bit more than most, but even when visiting outside the area there were two 1/2 hour news shows at dinner time, local and then national.

    Parent
    Not until months before JFK was killed (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:53:03 PM EST
    The first half-hour tv newscast, with Walter Cronkite, was in September 1963.  And you really don't want to know how I knew that -- but it was significant in building CBS as a news power because it had to set up bureaus around the country to do so.  And one was in Dallas, where a young newbie named Dan Rather made his career only weeks later. . . .

    Parent
    If you were watching 60 Minutes in 1960-63 ... (none / 0) (#188)
    by RonK Seattle on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:41:03 PM EST
    ... you're way ahead of me!  ;-)

    Parent
    Wasn't watching 60 minutes then but (none / 0) (#208)
    by FlaDemFem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:19:09 PM EST
    later on. It was a great program when it started and for years afterwards. Now it's just dreck. I remember the young Mike Wallace doing some crackerjack investigative journalism. Chris Wallace should take some lessons from his father when it comes to finding out the facts of the story. I was just being nostalgic for the good old days, which really were the good old days as far as news reporting went, and lumped one of my favorites in with the rest of it. But I remember watching news shows before Kennedy got assassinated, not just 15 mins. either. But as I said, we lived in the DC suburbs since Dad worked at State Dept. so we may have had more news than most communities.

    Parent
    FlaDemFem... (none / 0) (#192)
    by AmyinSC on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:45:59 PM EST
    A bit O/T, but you mentioned this morning that McCain had an ad on Lifetime.  Guess who else did, too?  Yep - Obama, right after an ad for Army Wives.  Hs started out saying something abt what a great show it was, and how he...Then I had to change the channel, so I don't know WHAT else he said, but I distinctly remember thinking, "Oh, freakin' great - NOW he decides to address this?  Huh - Hillary has been talking abt these issues for a LONG time!"  And, "Now the whole time I'm watching Army Wives, I'm going to have to hear HIM?"

    Good thing I'll be DVRing it...

    Parent

    So his daughters learned that (5.00 / 12) (#58)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:58:29 PM EST
    all they have to do is give their lives to public service, give up the mansion and not even own a home of their own, work hard for decades, work harder for months of a campaign, win more votes, and still lose?  That's the lesson too many girls got from these girls' daddy.  What a role model, he is . . . not.

    Maybe they're thinking (5.00 / 9) (#64)
    by dk on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:00:45 PM EST
    that they better not move to Florida or Michigan when they grow up, or else their daddy and democratic party will take their right to vote away.

    Parent
    I think the (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:59:27 PM EST
    former west wing writers are working on his speech for the convention. I doubt we will see new material until then.

    Bush#3 (5.00 / 10) (#63)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:00:20 PM EST
    Instead of the constant reference to McCain being a Bush third term, maybe it's Obama that will fulfill that role. All I remember hearing from Bush on the campaign trail in 1999 was change. He was an outsider that would bring unity and honor back in government. If I was Obama I definitely would develop a new schick. I've already been burnt on change.

    McCain campaign (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by waldenpond on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:30:59 PM EST
    I keep hoping every time Obama calls him Bush III, McCain responds with examples of how he's like Bush... you got the primary like Bush got the election, you voted for the Bush/Cheney energy bill not me....  now that would be fun.

    Parent
    His last Best Speech Ever was boring (5.00 / 10) (#72)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:06:12 PM EST
    I missed it. I'm bored of Mr. Excitement.

    He's lost the magic, too.

    In passing, about his speeches, in my (very informed) opinion a contributing factor to the slowdown on his Jan/Feb momentum was the quality of his clips playing up against a schedule of oncoming primaries.

    People at upcoming stops would see a clip of a recent speech with wildly cheering crowds and in the dead of winter think, man, I gotta see that. That's free is it? I gotta go.

    Now, when he misses his cues or has paused for audience cheering / fainting / applauding, it's agony, like one of those SNL gags that's not funny even for a second but goes on forever. A seasoned speaker -- someone who's legitimately GOOD at it -- knows how to compensate but Obama's "excellence" relies more on his audience never having heard the phrases from Obama's cobbled material.

    When he yells out a speech and there's NO cheering (like there was supposed to be) he sounds (a) daft; (b) like he's talking while listening to personal audio too loud or (c) he's using the outside voice again.

    Also, Obama's a good speaker when he's working off audience energy, but he's really teh suck when they're not with him. He's not a good recoverer; eople who are bored easily never are. Plus, he doesn't do flop sweat well. On him, it's agonizing.

    He'll have to work on that or have a box/hump on his back eventually.

    Hope this is still topical. :-)

    When he yells out a speech (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by OxyCon on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:35:02 PM EST
    ...and there's NO cheering (like there was supposed to be) he sounds (a) daft; (b) like he's talking while listening to personal audio too loud or (c) he's using the outside voice again.

    (d) he sounds like "Plankton" from the "SpongeBob Squarepants" cartoon.


    Parent

    I'm sure his daughters do see themselves... (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by dianem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:11:30 PM EST
    ...differently. The see that if they ever want to accomplish anything, they had better not marry a powerful man, because if they do they will live forever in his shadow.

    Obama can tell his daughters for me (5.00 / 9) (#110)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:23:14 PM EST
    that I sure see their daddy differently because Hillary ran for President.  

    Thank you, Senator Clinton.  Your mere presence, your daring to give Obama serious competition,  brought out in Obama his own worst demons, which he might have managed to keep hidden until after I would have voted for him -- sexism, race-baiting, corruption, and more.  

    But he Alice Palmered you off the ballot, anyway.  First, Cook County.  Next, the country.  Stay clear, Senator Clinton.  Let the Republicans do the rest of the heavy lifting that Dem leadership would not do.

    Parent

    Hopefully marriage equality (none / 0) (#109)
    by Fabian on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:23:00 PM EST
    will solve that problem for many women by the time the Obama girls are grown.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Ha. Women have been working for that (5.00 / 6) (#116)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:27:31 PM EST
    throughout the history of this country, and see how far we have progressed after more than 200 years?

    If anything, the opponents of women's rights are encouraged by Obama's sexist campaign and the media and public who welcomed it.  We may well see a reprise of the post Hill-Thomas hearings backlash, just in time for his daughters to deal with it.  And then their daddy can tell them to keep "hopin'" for "change."

    Parent

    Sorry, I was too subtle. (5.00 / 0) (#180)
    by Fabian on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:26:15 PM EST
    See, the solution is to marry a powerful woman, not a man.

    ;)

    Parent

    Does his wife see herself differently? (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by catfish on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:13:58 PM EST
    Just curious.

    Highly Doubt It (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by JimWash08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:39:00 PM EST
    I was driving just now and the news radio station here in D.C. was going crazy about the speech. I had to switch the frequency ... or I'd have driven off the road.

    I don't think the media will ever let go of this love affair with the Obamas. I will be very sad, because being a news junkie, I'm not sure how I'll ever get real news.

    I think I'm going to have to get Expanded Cable to get foreign news channels like the BBC etc.

    Right now, the media's going crazy over that so-obviously-staged "fist bump" that BO and MO did on stage on Tuesday. Please, spare me the theatrics.

    Parent

    Why that is special (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:18:05 PM EST
    his daughters are better off.  I think all his attempts come off patronizing right now, he should step back and do what is right, create a coalition.  All indications we have from his supporters and surrogates is no.  

    He doesn't know how to NOT be patronizing. (5.00 / 4) (#165)
    by derridog on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:53:42 PM EST
    It's completely unconscious. He just assumes his own superiority.

    Parent
    Re: The quote Jeralyn mentioned (5.00 / 9) (#104)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:20:15 PM EST
    And then the little girls heard BAM! and then their heads hurt banging against the big thick plexiglass unbreakable presidential glass ceiling.

    Real Change (5.00 / 4) (#117)
    by OxyCon on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:29:28 PM EST
    Obama: "I'm saddened by today's verdict. This isn't the Tony Rezko I knew..."

    Obama: I'm cuttin' ties with Rev. Wright. He's not the man I once knew.

    Obama: I'm cuttin' ties with Father Pfleger, he's not the man I once new.

    Obama: I'm quittin' Trinity United. It's not the same Church I once knew.

    That's alot of "Change" in a short period of time.
    Obama cut ties with most of Chicago in less than one month.

    reply to OxyCon (none / 0) (#202)
    by noholib on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:07:28 PM EST
    I find your comment really funny!

    Parent
    Didn't know (5.00 / 5) (#120)
    by tek on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:30:58 PM EST
    he was on.  For me, this will be like the Bush years.  Wonder what his daughters think about all that sexist crap both their parents threw at Hillary?  Oops, my bitter white 60 yr old woman personality peeking through.

    Well (5.00 / 5) (#138)
    by chrisvee on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:37:27 PM EST
    his opinion of the Clintons seems to have changed overnight so I guess we can believe.

    I sure hope his daughters didn't hear the remarks about how deeply flawed and untrustworthy she is.  Or how she periodically attacks when she feels down.

    I don't think I'm ready to make nice.

    No. (5.00 / 0) (#151)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:43:48 PM EST


    Notice the Bubbas (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Grace on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:49:50 PM EST
    they pack into the audience right behind the area where Obama speaks?  

    All the middle class, middle-age to older, white, hickish-looking folks all sitting there right behind him...

    I wonder if they have to pay them to sit there?  

    Phew ... well I'm mollified (5.00 / 4) (#164)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:53:33 PM EST
    Isn't Obama's habit of speechifying to "solve" a problem the political version of a jackwad who sends flowers after screwing up in some way?

    And how egotistical is it for Obama to smoothe things over by listening to the sound of his own voice. Why not throw in a few choruses of My D!ck in a Box?

    Yeesh now I dislike him even more.

    Change (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:15:13 PM EST
    comes from within.

    Do your daughters feel differently cause they now know that white woman was never called a __??

    Comments now closed (5.00 / 4) (#211)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:30:50 PM EST
    Our automatic comment closer script worked for the first time on this thread. A message?

    To gnignprop, it's been two days. As others have said, let people blow off some steam. They aren't trashing Obama, they're venting their frustration that their candidate didn't win and at how poorly she was treated.

    I'm very flattered that the readers here have treated TL with respect by staying within the comment rules. It's not easy on a day like today, even for me.

    I've said a dozen different times I'm voting for Obama. Even Obama says change doesn't happen overnight.

    It's not time yet to launch into Obama v McCain -- it's months to the general election, I'm not a party activist and I'm not that interested yet. I tend to live in the present and the news today and tomorrow and Saturday will be Hillary dropping out and Obama getting the nomination.

    Right now I care about Hillary and her supporters, not Obama.

    Tomorrow, next week, next month, or whenever, is another day.

    My view (5.00 / 2) (#213)
    by sas on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:49:59 PM EST
    P.U.M.A

    it was, as near as i could tell, (5.00 / 2) (#216)
    by cpinva on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 04:45:37 AM EST
    his standard stump speech. i was underwhelmed by it during the campaign, i'm not whelmed by it now.

    let's face it, the guy is a plastic man, all facade, no substance. good luck to him in the GE, he'll need it.

    * full disclosure: i started out liking sen. obama, at the beginning of the primary campaign. i honestly thought (and still do) that his biggest negative is his lack of experience, by comparison to sen. clinton.

    however, i did think they'd make a great democratic ticket, her as pres. and him as veep. that would give him time, and a good mentor, to get that valuable experience, for 2016.

    as a result of the sleazoid campaign he's run, i no longer even like him. while i won't actively campaign against him, nor will i vote for mccain, i won't support him and i can't, in good conscionce, vote for him in nov.

    but hey, that's just me.

    Writing A Check to McCain.. (4.33 / 6) (#15)
    by JoeCHI on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:35:52 PM EST
    ..as I listen to Obama speak.

    Now THAT'S change I can believe in!

    wow (5.00 / 6) (#37)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:49:12 PM EST
    i'm not at that stage of the game yet.  i doubt i could write a check to a republican.  my money this time has gone to two places:  Hillary Clinton and Talk Left.  (I used to donate to C&L but I don't really go there anymore).

    I figure I should chip in where I use up the most space commenting.

    Parent

    I sent Hillary another small donation today... (5.00 / 4) (#97)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:17:37 PM EST
    ...so she doesn't have to rely on Obama camp money to pay off her campaign debt.

    Parent
    Actually, I kinda want him to have to pay off (5.00 / 0) (#137)
    by Valhalla on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:36:56 PM EST
    her campaign debt.

    Does that make me petty and evil?  ;)

    Parent

    If they find out all kinds of stuff about him (none / 0) (#166)
    by FlaDemFem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:57:12 PM EST
    and the Dems decide to nominate Hillary instead, can he still be expected to help her pay it off?? I would sooo love that. I mean, SHE would then be the head of the Party, right? And he would be expected to get out and raise money for her and other Dems, right?? I think that would be a great way of getting Obama to pay his dues, literally even, in the Democratic Party. So far all he has done is help himself to their help, and they in return have made a deal for a piece of his pie. So, if Hillary ends up being the nominee, doesn't she have the most say over where the money goes?? And who needs to be out raising it? Talk about poetic justice and karma working in tandem. Heh.

    Parent
    OK, ok Obama's responsible for all the sexism (3.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Newt on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:04:54 PM EST
    and he maybe he shouldn't say his kids will see themselves differently because Hillary ran for President.  But many here at talkleft seem to forget that feminists support and voted for Obama.  But I'm still hoping for the best, from us as well as him.

    The CHANGE I'm looking for is already starting:  

    On Good Morning America Thursday, ABC News' Chief Washington Correspondent George Stephanopoulos reported "the Democratic National Committee will no longer accept contributions from federal lobbyists, will no longer take contributions from PACs" in keeping with Obama's well-publicized policy.


    he also told Candy Crowley (5.00 / 16) (#81)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:11:22 PM EST
    today he's not setting a timetable for troop withdrawal, we have to tread carefully for the safety of our troops and what he will do is tell Iraq we won't be there indefinitely. He also said we have to "step up" the fight against al Qaeda, Afhanistan and Pakistan.

    Where's the change in that?

    Parent

    He is changing (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:14:05 PM EST
    the change that he offered a changing party in a season of change.

    Parent
    See there (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by Burned on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:34:28 PM EST
    If I had gone to Obama right away it would have been a one night stand.

    He lied.

    Parent

    Which is shorter, 100 years or indefinitely? (5.00 / 5) (#141)
    by Valhalla on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:38:37 PM EST
    I really wanna know.

    Parent
    Is anyone surprised by that? (5.00 / 0) (#186)
    by RalphB on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:36:51 PM EST
    It's one of the most predictable things yet.  I'll put money that of the two, McCain would withdraw quicker.  That's because the military is somewhat broken and McCain knows enough to eventually acknowledge it.  Obama has no clue.


    Parent
    The RNC is already wooing disaffected Hillary (1.00 / 2) (#107)
    by Newt on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:22:29 PM EST
    supporters with ads on shows women watch.  McCain is co-opting the change message and positioning himself as creating a new direction in Iraq (the surge worked, now lets move forward into more Iraq occupation...). A timetable for troop withdrawal cannot reasonably be stated at this point, we DO have to tread carefully for the safety of our troops etc, etc.  This is not a good time to seem weak on national security.

    Trust me, the original push behind Obama is from those of us who want out of Iraq, and that push is still there actively working after the November election.

    The Yes We Can movement is still more about us than about Obama.

    Parent

    Hillary didn't have a problem with a timetable. (5.00 / 7) (#173)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:07:56 PM EST
    Saying she would start withdrawing our troops within 60 days didn't make her seem weak on national security. Obama is fluttering around the issue because he never really had a position. All he has is one old speech. I really hope all you folks for whom getting out of Iraq is so important that Hillary's vote made her the devil will pressure Obama.

    Oh, forget it. Barack Obama's not going to listen to you folks. He got what he wanted from you. Don't sit around waiting for him to call the next day.

    Parent

    Absolutly all (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:11:27 PM EST
    not only that, but a composite of every male that ever rubbed any of us the wrong way.

    Besides, nothing went really THAT wrong in the last eight years that going back to being complacent and not caring wouldnt remedy.

    Parent

    Yay... (5.00 / 4) (#93)
    by kredwyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:16:29 PM EST
    a return to the 19th century and Tammany Hall boss-style politics.

    w00t!

    Parent

    Whoop-ee-ding! (5.00 / 6) (#95)
    by RonK Seattle on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:17:35 PM EST
    Registered federal lobbyists will report about $20,000,000,000 in lobbying expenditures over the next Presidential term. (Actual expenditures are several times that.)

    Constraints on personal contributions by lobbyists will affect what -- $20,000,000 per term?

    It's flim-flam, man.

    Parent

    So the DNC isn't going to take (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by FlaDemFem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:07:13 PM EST
    money from Obama's PAC?? That's funny. It really is. Heh.

    Parent
    Talk Left --here we need a change (1.33 / 3) (#174)
    by gnipgnop on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:08:09 PM EST
    In my opinion, things here at Talk Left have gotten too negative about Obama. He's imperfect. Hillary's imperfect. They both ran tough campaigns and I think did things they shouldn't have. Right now, it is clear Obama will be our nominee. I say our, because I think most of us here are Democrats. I'm sure you can list countless flaws in Obama, but he still will be our nominee.

    You can say you will vote for McCain or not vote at all or give money to McCain, but the truth is that Obama's beliefs are mostly like that of the average Democrat. If he becomes president he will be vastly better than John McCain in so many ways. Supporting McCain because you are mad at Obama is like shooting yourself in the foot. Believe me, for all Obama's flaws, McCain is not deserving of your support.

    McCain will overturn Roe vs. Wade via his supreme court nominees. There is no way Obama will do that. McCain will keep us in Iraq years longer than Obama. McCain cares absolutely nothing for regular Americans. I believe Obama cares and will take action on health care. As BTD said in an earlier post, on almost every policy issue Obama and Hillary agree.

    If you care about our country, it is time to move past the bitterness and the meanness toward Obama. I believe Hillary wants what's best for our country. She's an amazing leader and despite everything that happened during the primary campaign, she is going to back Obama. She's a class act and we should follow her lead.

    Gnip

    Obama (5.00 / 2) (#191)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:44:41 PM EST
    I am not an Obama basher but I do understand the need for blowing off some steam. Hilary supportesa have been treated terrible by most of the blogs. And as far as Obama, respect is earned not just handed out. Until he offers something of substance for the party instead of platitudes he's not earned my respect yet. Let him use his clout to put some spine back in the party. Block this Iraq "treaty" or stop telecom immunity. Actions speak louder than words.

    Parent
    i agree with you (1.00 / 1) (#194)
    by gnipgnop on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:48:22 PM EST
    but give Obama a fresh start now that the GE campaign has really started.

    Once the anger subsides, really give him a chance head to head on the campaign against McCain. Maybe a lot of you will be surprised how much better you like Obama compared to the just stunningly horrible McCain.

    Parent

    Yeah sure (5.00 / 8) (#196)
    by RalphB on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:52:18 PM EST
    give him a do over.  He didn't really mean the hateful primary campaign.  What a load of crap.

    Parent
    boring talking points yawn (none / 0) (#187)
    by RalphB on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:41:00 PM EST
    no, (1.00 / 1) (#193)
    by gnipgnop on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:46:18 PM EST
    not for me at least.

    One person's talking points I guess are another's ideas and vice versa.

    4 years of McCain on top of 8 years of the idiot will be like getting encephalitis after just getting over cancer.

    Maybe Hillary would have done better than Obama, but in my opinion Obama is light years better than McCain. McCain is a nightmare.

    Parent

    To you but not to ,me (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by RalphB on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:51:08 PM EST
    I rather like him.  If you want to make a case for Obama then do it.  Kicking on McCain will do you no good with ost people.  

    You have an opinion, so do I.  You got a problem with free speech?


    Parent

    How many people on this message board (1.00 / 2) (#100)
    by wtfwtf on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:19:04 PM EST
    do you think are McCain peeps trying to stir the pot? (just curious)

    Nah..... (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by waldenpond on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:36:31 PM EST
    we've been here a long time.  We just don't support Obama.  People vote different ways for different reasons.  It just has to be accepted.  Agree to disagree.  Vote your beliefs.

    Parent
    WTF? (5.00 / 0) (#142)
    by suki on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:38:47 PM EST
    You're one of the few people.... (5.00 / 0) (#154)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:45:28 PM EST
    ...on this thread that I don't recognize so, hmmm.

    But seriously, McCain peeps are too arthritic to stir the pot anymore. Just for you: a joke you can appreciate.

    Parent

    A challenge to Jeralyn (1.00 / 5) (#184)
    by gnipgnop on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:31:18 PM EST
    I have been a reader of TalkLeft for years. I don't know you, Jeralyn, personally, but I feel I have gotten to know you and I believe you care deeply about our country and justice.

    My challenge to you, Jeralyn, is to ask your readers to stop bashing Obama. Set an example for them by telling them it is time to move on from all the negativity.

    Obama is not your first choice. I respect that, but the meanness here has got to stop for the overall good. It doesn't belong on TalkLeft.

    Gnip

    Not Jeralyn (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by dws3665 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:43:01 PM EST
    But she has already stated, in multiple posts, that as long as commenters here don't break the commenting rules, then they are free to express their opinions.

    As are you.

    People are angry and mad. A lot of that is coming out right now, and it's not a huge surprise. Why don't you stop telling people how to feel and think? Just a suggestion.

    Parent

    I understand (none / 0) (#197)
    by gnipgnop on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:55:30 PM EST
    the anger and disappointment. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to believe or feel.

    It's just my opinion that being mad at Obama, while understandable, makes no sense to me after a certain period of time. I cannot tell anyone how long that is, but at some point I think the greater good is served by focusing our attention on McCain. I guess I just wish that happened sooner rather than later.

    TalkLeft is an enormous tool for the greater good. At some point I just hope it is less a place to be mad about Obama and more a place to focus on defeating McCain.

    Parent

    Ahhh, the greater good. (5.00 / 6) (#205)
    by sarahfdavis on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:13:49 PM EST
    Y'all should've been so earnest about the greater good a lot sooner. Obama encouraged a lot of despicable behavior...I guess that was all for the greater good.


    Parent
    No, I do't think you do understand (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by Democratic Cat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:13:58 PM EST
    or you wouldn't tell us to "move on" from our "negativity" when our candidate has only in the last day or two said she's getting out of the race.

    Parent
    If you've been coming to TL for awhile, (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by samanthasmom on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:00:25 PM EST
    then you have to know that this is one of the funniest posts ever.  Lighten up! We're having fun with this. If you can't poke fun at a pompous performance by your candidate, then you're in too deep. Jeralyn has made it perfectly clear that she isn't running a blog to promote McCain or the decimation of the DNC.  Those of us who are going to be doing that will do it elsewhere. But this is just letting off a little steam. I haven't laughed this much in weeks.

    Parent
    After A Certain Period Of Time? (5.00 / 8) (#200)
    by AmyinSC on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:05:48 PM EST
    You think we should already all be just fine with how things have gone in the primary campaign in TWO DAYS???  Seriously???  Um, no.  Yes, we are having some fun with this, and letting off some steam, but make no mistake - there is a lot of anger, frustration, disbelief, and dismay at how this primary season was conducted, such as the rampant SEXISM,and the VOTER DISENFRANCHISEMENT, to name two, that is NOT just going to go away after a couple of days.  

    Sorry if that doesn't fit your timetable.  

    Parent

    Better living through chemistry (1.00 / 6) (#203)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:08:54 PM EST
    try some prozac, weed, viagra something, to help get you past your misery. It is sad to see so many grown ups in one place acting worse than my 3 year old. I am glad he can't read yet...

    Maybe (none / 0) (#9)
    by Emma on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:33:53 PM EST
    he is talking about chang?  It didn't strike me as snarky.  But maybe my snark meter is broken.

    Oh -- Jeralyn means, Chang! THAT Chang (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:52:22 PM EST
    brother of Eng, the other of the famous Siamese twins.  Heck, that sounds like an Obama lecture that could be interesting for a . . . well, a change.

    Parent
    Ha! (none / 0) (#57)
    by Emma on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:58:16 PM EST
    I assume you're making a joke, not snarking at me.  :)

    Parent
    Yep, your typo inspired me -- and I thank you (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:00:16 PM EST
    because I may be able to get through the next months and maybe years by just thinking "Chang and Eng" whenever the One talks about change, change, change. . . .

    Parent
    I have about a buck fifty (none / 0) (#88)
    by kredwyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:14:26 PM EST
    in change...

    I am bored with his Change speech (none / 0) (#106)
    by Clinton2012 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:20:38 PM EST
    can he please "Change" his speech???

    Clinton for 2012 -- yes that time is not far.

    I quit church (none / 0) (#182)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:28:24 PM EST
    because I got tired of preachers harping at me. And with Obama, I had absolutely nothing to do with the state of the country. He's been a politician for years. In his 2 yrs in the Senate why didn't he use these speeches on them. They're the ones who allowed this mess to fester out of control.

    Speech, what speech? wouldn't have (none / 0) (#215)
    by nulee on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 09:33:34 PM EST
    known about it if TL hadn't told me... speaks volumes.