Late Night: Piece of My Heart

In the last six months, more than 18 million voters pushed a lever or touched a screen in the privacy of a voting booth for Hillary Clinton. She's correct that more voters chose her (pdf) than any other candidate in the history of presidential primaries.

Like her opponent, she shattered fundraising records from prior primaries. Unlike her opponent, she won the swing states Democrats must win in November -- Ohio, PA and Florida.

She won the older voters, women voters, rural voters and blue collar voters who make up the bulk of the country's voting populace. [More...]

Since March, she has won the majority of primaries, including one today that no one thought she had a chance of winning.

She has spent every day of the past six months -- no vacations -- introducing herself to the American people and coming up with concrete solutions for their problems on everything from getting out of Iraq to health care, jobs and education. She poured her heart and her soul into her campaign.

Yet, with 82 days left to the Democratic convention in Denver, on a day when voters in the final two states were weighing in, the media and congressional and party leaders decided they couldn't wait another day for the race to be over.

The media floated false concession stories just as the polls were opening. Congressional leaders said wrap it up. Superdelegates, like loyal sheep, trickled in and declared their support for Barack Obama, pushing his pledged delegate lead, a number that unlike the certainty of a cast vote can fluctuate and change until the convention, above the "magic number."

When the media crowned Obama the nominee in late afternoon and Hillary Clinton didn't play her scripted role of demure conceder, the pundits had the nerve to complain she was making the race about her instead of him.

If I were Hillary Clinton tonight, I'd go home, put on my sweats, pour a large snifter of cognac and hum along with Janis, singing "Take Another Piece of My Heart."

She won't of course. Hillary doesn't have an ounce of victimhood in her. She'll get up tomorrow, just like today and proceed to make the decision she deems best for her supporters, her party and her country.

So I'll do it for her, in her honor.

As I've said many times, when she makes her decision, I'll honor it. I'll support the Democratic nominee because that's in the best interest of the country.

But it's over when Hillary says it's over. And that's not tonight.

Comments now closed.

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    Jeralyn (5.00 / 14) (#1)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:17:59 AM EST
    I send you a big, big hug.  A big cheer.  And a big, big thank you.  

    And a huge hug all around. (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by itsadryheat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:38:21 AM EST
    I never thought I'd cry (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by MMW on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:12:13 AM EST
    But this is so wrong. I'd like to echo What Stellaaa said.

    Thanks for everything Jeralyn.

    I can't kiss and make up. I won't support the Dem party. I'm not mature enough for that. But thanks for this place.


    If you can't support "the Party" search (none / 0) (#203)
    by Joelarama on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:16:22 AM EST
    out some good progressive candidates in Senate or Congressional races.

    "The Party" is many people.  Buck up!


    I think you should take a good, hard look... (none / 0) (#229)
    by pb on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:07:04 AM EST
    ...at John McCain before you decide you're not going to support the Democratic party in November.

    Beautiful post Jeralyn... (5.00 / 3) (#202)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:14:00 AM EST
    ....You are so right. Hillary is not a victim. I think that's why she is so confusing to the media. They are not used to a Dem like that.

    I don't think they're confused. (5.00 / 3) (#204)
    by Joelarama on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:17:30 AM EST
    I think they just hate Hillary.  It's hatred, pure and simple.

    WOOHOO JERALYN!! (none / 0) (#172)
    by Eleanor A on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:11:42 AM EST
    clappity clap clap!  Well said!

    I wanted to send a thank you (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:21:37 AM EST
    to Lanny Davis.  That guy really, really fought for her.  Sometimes under really horrible conditions.  I found his email and sent him a thank you.  Hope he gets it.  

    I never ever thought I'd say this (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by phat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:23:04 AM EST
    But Ickes did a good job on Saturday.

    Heh...Davis (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:25:02 AM EST
    just sent me a thank you from his Blueberry.  

    Awww (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:27:04 AM EST
    I wanna send him an email! It's either that or send one to Donna "the red queen" Brazile. And I really really really shouldn't do that.

    Was just thinking the same (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by catfish on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:45:22 AM EST
    did you just Google for it?

    yeah.... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:46:54 AM EST
    here is the link

    Thank you - just messaged him (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by catfish on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:04:57 AM EST
    a few others I'd like to thank too Geraldine Ferraro, Sheila Jackson Lee, Stephanie Tubbs-Jones, etc.

    I really don't think Geraldine Ferraro (none / 0) (#154)
    by JoeA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:23:24 AM EST
    did Hillary any favours at all IMHO.

    Ferraro was correct (5.00 / 3) (#159)
    by Josey on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:37:31 AM EST
    her comments were a kick in the face to Obamedia that has promoted Obama and concealed damaging info about him, to date.

    He must have. (5.00 / 5) (#14)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:33:26 AM EST
    At the Orange, they were crowning Brazile queen of the democrats and beating on Ickes like a drum.

    The "reality-based" left that community and now all that's left is unreality.


    Ickes has done more for progressives (5.00 / 2) (#206)
    by Joelarama on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:19:05 AM EST
    than all the front pagers at that blog have done or will ever do.

    And I still respect about two or three of those front pagers.


    Short term solution (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by nellre on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:22:48 AM EST
    help elect Obama, but it's a band-aid and I am not convinced (yet) it's in the best interest of our country long term.
    I've been jettisoned from the Democratic party for heavens sake. Why on earth would I fight for its survival when it has committed political suicide and yet told me it doesn't need me?

    I might be comforted it Obama promised and publicized Hillary a place on the supreme court. That's a lifetime appointment!

    the irony (5.00 / 19) (#6)
    by Turkana on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:23:51 AM EST
    is that while those in the shrillosphere falsely accused her of pretty much every form of political depredation, it was actually they who committed many of them on her. for which they are everything they accused her of being.

    I said in January (5.00 / 9) (#12)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:32:48 AM EST
    that it seemed everything Hillary was accused of Obama actually did. That was unfair, because what was really true is what you say here.

    It's a psychological disorder. Seriously. (4.83 / 12) (#39)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:03:37 AM EST
    It's a form of psychological projection, and seeing it occur en masse has been very scary.  It didn't seem quite possible to play out this way in a democracy -- and in the Democratic Party, yet.

    But we have learned a lot about ourselves as a party and as a country in this campaign.  And it provides me with better context, if still not understanding, of examples of it in past in other countries.

    Very scary.  I simply attempt to avoid Obama supporters, although I know some must be reasonable, but I just don't know which ones have been affected by this disorder, this frenzy for a "movement" instead of a viable party in politics, which used to be about the art of compromise.  


    a psychological disorder (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by weltec2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:37:14 AM EST
    You say "we have learned a lot about ourselves as a party." I would like to believe you're right. I don't see it yet. I find I still have to step quietly through the Obamine fields.

    the cult continues... (1.00 / 4) (#107)
    by vrusimov on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:00:56 AM EST
    yeah...around 18 million people have this same "disorder" that you speak of...at some point, one must accept that these voters rejected Clinton for whatever reasons they chose to...they may not make sense to you but they are valid none the less...there are a myriad of reasons not to vote for Clinton but many only need one...her war vote being chief among many...

    War vote Huh! (5.00 / 7) (#122)
    by Serene1 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:28:31 AM EST
    This from the supporter of a candidate who was petty enough to steal a paltry 4 delegates from his competitor.

    Obama disagreed (5.00 / 5) (#150)
    by andrys on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:03:50 AM EST
    when he was more honest about it.

      And when people didn't speak in simplistic terms as they prefer to during election time.

    Note the part at the bottom too, about 'The "Iran Counter-Proliferation Act of 2007," which Obama co-sponsored on April 24, 2007.'

     It stated that ""The Secretary of State should designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guards as a Foreign Terrorist Organization..."


    How about one of Obama's votes (none / 0) (#253)
    by BrandingIron on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:44:05 PM EST
    not to vote for him:  He voted for Bush-Cheney Energy giveaway, she didn't.

    Try harder.


    Jeralyn, you've been missed! (5.00 / 7) (#34)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:58:13 AM EST
    Before Hillary's speech tonight I felt lower than a snake's belly. Afterward, like some of you are saying, I felt positively buoyant.

    I'm feeling like the searing heat is finally off Hillary. She is in the serene place of having nothing to lose, and who knows how much to gain. She is a free agent now, with the backing of 18 million people.

    As for Obama, I don't say this with relish, but he is now more squarely in the hot seat and he has a everything to lose.

    Tonight, Hillary looked far more ebullient than Obama and for good reason.


    I am a die hard Clintonista, (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by DCDemocrat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:09:00 AM EST
    but I wrote diaries at MyDD and Daily Kos last evening congratulating Obama and his supporters.  I was moved by a couple of things last evening: That the nation has matured enough to make an African American the nominee of a major party is worth something, and I thought he was very gracious to Hillary.  

    I will vote for Obama in the Fall, because I am a yellow dog, and it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.  He may not be the vessel in which I wanted to pour my dreams for the country, but he's the vessel we've got.


    H*ll hath frozen over. Good to see you (5.00 / 1) (#208)
    by Joelarama on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:22:19 AM EST
    DCDem.  I won't have to hold my nose to vote Obama in November, if he is the nominee.

    But I'd have to hold a lot more than that ever to post at the Orange Kooltopia.


    I proposed only (none / 0) (#237)
    by DCDemocrat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:23:58 AM EST
    to write that one diary over there.  I did write it.  I have seven articles in various stages of preparation for publication.  I intend to focus mostly on my writing for the foreseeable future.

    Turkana? (5.00 / 2) (#181)
    by Larry Bailey on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:28:37 AM EST
    From DKos?  If so, hey, hey.  Good to see you here.

    Turkana (5.00 / 1) (#238)
    by DCDemocrat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:24:37 AM EST
    from all the web, really.

    definition of bullying (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:45:14 AM EST
    what you describe is the very definition of bullying. remember in junior high? the bullies pick a target, demonize them by telling everyone horrible things to believe about him/her, everyone eventually starts to believe it, then they beat the sh!t of him/her relentlessly. the bullies are the evil ones, not the victim.

    Back at you (5.00 / 9) (#7)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:24:15 AM EST
    Thank you Stellaaa, and all of TalkLeft's readers, for your support of Hillary and for reading and commenting here at TalkLeft. It's a wide internet, and it's been a pleasure to get to know you all and host the conversation.

    Jeralyn, another well-done summary (5.00 / 4) (#59)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:17:54 AM EST
    and, as ever, wonderfully understated . . . but more moving because of it.  Thank you.  And as I've already revealed here my secret dream of a career as a bumper-sticker writer, here's one to imagine we still might see in September:

    18 Million Voters Knew It, All Along

    Well, I've got better ones than that in me, but it has been a long night, leavened only by TalkLeft.  I'll get a good night's rest and rise like Hillary to the next challenge.  For me, better slogans that fit on a car bumper and can be read from several feet away. :-)


    Just pulled this from ABC News (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:37:05 AM EST

    Hillary Clinton 17,784,437
    Barack Obama 17,479,386

    -ABC News. The headline is mine.


    Jearlyn (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:27:28 AM EST
    Write a book.  It would be brilliant.  

    Even sooner, write a paper (5.00 / 5) (#50)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:12:10 AM EST
    to present at the upcoming conference on, I kid you not, "The Obama Effect."  I get the sense that the organizers think of it as a collection of adulants giving papers on the happy young voters and latte sippers.

    Wouldn't it be fun to -- this actually happens at conferences -- submit one paper but give another on, say, the Obama Effect in driving voters out of the Dem party? :-)


    The conference is 2 weeks (5.00 / 0) (#86)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:41:34 AM EST
    ahead of the election.

    May have to keep an eye out for it...


    There are several books on this topic. (5.00 / 3) (#173)
    by wurman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:16:15 AM EST
    The books are about "shared psychosis" & "mob psycology."  These are readily observable at many websites.

    The case studies don't focus on Sen. Obama or his campaign or even political behaviors in general.  It seems that there are some studies on "fanatic" support of athletic teams & athletes, rock stars & movie icons, etc.

    Many observiors have commented on Sen. Obama's similarity to a rock star, the cyborg nature of his sycophants & the cult codes of his followers.

    I don't think very many scholarly psychologists are actually interested in political figures because they are ephemeral--here today, gone in a very short while.


    Absolutely plan to publish a book on this! (none / 0) (#63)
    by Ellie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:20:07 AM EST
    Come what may your POV, insights and position right in the thick of it will make for a thrilling read.

    If you aren't already doing it, keep a mini-DAT recorder around your neck and talk your notes to cache for later transcription and organization. Transitory thoughts and feelings will bloom on a blank page or screen later.

    As incentive, I can confidently assure you I'd buy multiple copies. (I'm large with sisters and aunts -- and cousins, my gawd the cousins could  easily get you on regional hot lists.)


    Jeralyn, I've been waiting for you. (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by Teresa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:31:05 AM EST
    I know you hurt too and you can't vent like we can. You have my respect, like another strong lady I know.

    Teresa (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:37:22 AM EST
    I didn't have to cheer up my wife tonight.  Hillary did it for me.  She is one inspiring lady.

    It would mean a lot to this household if she were to run for VP.


    She cheered me up, too, for a while. (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Teresa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:41:23 AM EST
    The reaction to her speech convinces me that I don't want her as VP though. I'm tired on seeing her be smeared this way. She may be able to take it, but I can't!

    Me also. I was in tears thinking about (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:30:59 AM EST
    "the end". Heh, she gave me a huge smile and a lot of hope. I know she will use her current position well.

    Even I don't want her as the (5.00 / 4) (#103)
    by Serene1 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:56:34 AM EST
    VP. Team Obama have till now indicated that we are dispensable and that the Clinton wing is the old order (so much for Unity). Anyways since that has been their platform till date, I won't them to stand up for the same and prove once and for all the efficacy of that argument.

    This has become a matter of principles, it is no more about the party. Anyway I am a member of PUMA now.


    She's still a strong contender for President (5.00 / 6) (#29)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:48:09 AM EST
    I really don't want her to risk taking the VP spot if she ends up not getting the nomination.

    Anticipating that MI and FL will end up seated at 100%, Obama is going into the convention 500 pledged delegates short. The supers could have seen the light with 3 months of McCain exposing him.

    I think Obama ran a solid dirty Republican campaign. It might look like it worked today, but the Republicans still do this much better and Obama has proven he cannot take what he can dish.


    please don't insult republicans! (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by ghost2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:28:56 AM EST
    He surpassed their dirty tricks.  I love to know what he has promised the corporate media and wall street.

    That was (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:32:49 AM EST
    wonderfully written.

    I can't escape Obama even on one of my favorite shows, "The Soup".  He was being interviewed about the snacks he takes with him on the campaign trail and he made some comment about how he eats healthy and how sometimes you're out in remote areas and there's nothing you can do.

    Was he talking about the snacks in Appalachia? (none / 0) (#17)
    by Valhalla on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:36:23 AM EST

    Isn't that (none / 0) (#77)
    by janarchy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:29:15 AM EST
    beef jerky, dried corn, fried possum and squirrel nuggets?

    Actually it's really good BBQ (none / 0) (#180)
    by Eleanor A on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:22:47 AM EST
    plus Moon Pies and Nehi blue cream soda.

    (True story:  TN state House speaker Jimmy Naifeh hosts a Coon Supper every year.  A lot of the state Dems go, vile as that sounds.  Good way to get rabies, if you ask me...

    -Considers remark as to possible motives of TN Dems supporting Obama, refrains-)


    My thanks to you (5.00 / 6) (#15)
    by margph on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:34:10 AM EST
     Jeralyn, thanks for keeping the conversation balanced.  I couldn't bear to go to another website that is so slanted as many I used to frequent.  I am with you in support of whatever Hillary decides to do.  If she is not on the top of the ticket, however, I am not voting.  I have worked for Dem candidates in three states for more than 25 years.  If it's not Hillary, I am done with it all.  The behavior of the DNC has shown me that our party is no better than the Republicans.

    Actually I couldn't have hoped for (5.00 / 7) (#16)
    by Serene1 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:35:32 AM EST
    a better end tonight. From feeling despondent I am right now quite giddy with happiness.

    I just loved the way Hillary gave her speech tonight. She was the epitome of a true leader. For the life of me I can't believe why anybody wouldn't want her to lead the nation.

    I also loved the way the MSM talking heads for once looked like stunned kids who just had their favourite ice cream taken away from them. That moment itself was priceless.

    And its funny to watch the the Dem elites with all their posh talk about party this and party that, doing everything in their power to destroy the party further, with their Hillary has to Go Now meme.

    Both the MSM and Dem elites are looking like blubbering fools by the minute with their graceless behaviour.

    Actually I couldn't have hoped for (5.00 / 5) (#69)
    by pcronin on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:22:30 AM EST
    I'm semi-with you Serene1. Tho Not giddy.

    But the look on the faces of the "Samers" ... who couldn't spew out the same, same, same ... that was priceless. They were so shocked by her lack of being the loyal woman Democrat who sheepishly pardoned herself for ever daring to run - and then of course bow out with grand praises for His Obamahood ... well they were so shocked by her lack of playing her part like a good woman should ... for once they were a bit flabbergasted. Some of them kinda looked like blowfish.

    On a different note: Jeralyn, Thank you for this forum wherein it is safe for those who support Hillary to share with others of like mind in thoughts and heart.

    I've certainly got to admit in my deepest, innermost place that my heart is a bit heavy tonight. I've been putting Light around Hillary all evening. And, I'd like to encourage everyone to lift her up in whatever ways you can.

    She is our best candidate and strongest  representative... inwardly her heart must be heavy too. She will benefit from our positive thoughts, prayers, Lightwork ... and all else we can bless her with. And I'll say, our last contributions too. That proud woman should not leave this campaign in debt.
      -- peniel cronin


    Thanks to Jeralyn, and thanks to you also (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by A little night musing on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:16:16 AM EST
    Thanks, Peniel, for your awesome analysis of the caucus-primary statistics.

    Jeralyn and BTD both, thanks for all you've done here, in particular over the last few days when it seems you've been posting nonstop, not to mention moderating nonstop.

    I've just sent another contribution to HRC. My next move must be to find a few dollars for TalkLeft.


    Obama's speech... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Salo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:47:48 AM EST
    ...was a good speech. The crowd loved it. Wright gave good speeches too. The congregation loved his speeches.  I wonder how long it'll take people to link the delivery and vapidity of the two "message"? Someone will splice the two together and it'll be embarrassing enough. He was very yelly too.

    Her speech was a bit more pointed. Respect these 18 million votes.  Not much more.  It's sad to see her on the way out like this.  Is it all based on the delivery as far back as the JJ dinner in Iowa?

    Obama is a better speechmaker that McCain so that a relief.  Hopefully McCain doesn't improve in that department.  Burn all the recordings of Churchill's fighting speeches before McCain finds them and imitates them.


    PS (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by margph on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:37:05 AM EST
    .....and I've had it with Air America too.

    I was so excited (5.00 / 5) (#33)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:52:30 AM EST
    when AA came back to Columbus.  Then I had to turn it off when everyone jumped on the Obama bandwagon.

    Gosh, I don't begrudge anyone their favorite but that's no reason to spread untruths about their opponent.


    I stopped listening to AA (5.00 / 5) (#53)
    by janarchy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:13:19 AM EST
    months and months ago. I was so happy when they were launched and was an ardent supporter for years. It didn't help that the NY supposed flag station moved to a crappy low-wattage station that wouldnt even come in after 4:30 pm 40 miles from New York City or that they kept changing the schedule.

    Currently, their line up is only about 1/2 what the national lineup is -- including substituting Ed Schultz for Thom Hartmann and running gospel and infomercial shows at other key times. I can't listen to it anyway -- the whole point of AA in the beginning was to be a liberal/progressive mouthpiece that wasn't like the rightwingnuts. It was supposed to be all inclusive of Democratic beliefs, not just slagging off people who didn't agree with them. All that's changed now. Hearing the non-stop 'either you're with us or against us' rhetoric made me just give up. A few weeks ago, Ron Reagan and his friend were on there making fun of all the "knuckleheads" (aka the low-information/redneck/hillbillies) who voted for Clinton instead of Obama. It was just dead depressing.


    Interesting exit poll result: (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by masslib on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:38:15 AM EST
    In Montana, voters who said having a president who cares about people was their priority split their votes almost evenly between the two candidates: Clinton had a 47 to 43 percent edge. But in South Dakota, which Clinton won, a significant majority of those voters - 60 percent - gave her the edge.

    Schneider: Voters say Clinton is more caring(cnn)

    I suspect she'll get up and see what all of us (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by Rhouse on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:40:16 AM EST
    have sent to her on the web site.  She'll read it, digest it and make her decision based on what she thinks is best for the people and the nation.  I so want the "Party" to just give her time and not try to force her to do their bidding, I just hope for a moment of clarity on their part. And yet in my soul I know they won't do that because the "Partys'" greed and hunger for humiliation is so strong.  It's getting near 3am in my part of the wood - Good nite, hearts' peace to you all.

    Daschle Delivers South Dakota! (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:42:11 AM EST
    ...not!  Yet ANOTHER so-called 'leader' and 'insider' couldn't deliver a PRIMARY for Obama.

    Daschle's in good company though....Kerry, Kennedy, Byrd, Rockerfeller, Waters...

    Yep (5.00 / 4) (#161)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:41:07 AM EST
    This is why I'm pretty certain Obama can't win in Nov. If these losers can't even deliver their own state in a Dem primary then what does that say about the general election? What kind of "presumptive nominee" continually loses contests? The blogosphere was talking about how McCain is going to have problems because he's getting 75% of the votes and Obama can't even win.

    Pleasant surprise with South Dakota (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by stefystef on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:07:26 AM EST
    and you are so right!  Daschle did NOT deliver South Dakota.

    So what does this tell me?  Obama can't win the key states and he's not turning any states over to the Dem column.

    Hillary's speech was wonderful last night.  Ickes was so right-  Hillary is better than her campaign.


    Thank you for a sane blog (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by catfish on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:48:08 AM EST
    and sane comments. I don't know how much time it takes, but it is truly a service the way you guys moderate comments. I don't know how you perform your day jobs.

    I'm feeling good because it was a great campaign (5.00 / 5) (#30)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:48:53 AM EST
    I think Hillary became a great, or really one of the greatest politicians during this campaign. I think she will do great things yet. I have no doubt.

    I think her not giving in or giving up tonight was really smart. I think winning the will of the people has earned her, and her supporters a powerful position where she can ensure some things get done. One is that a true universal health care be forwarded. Another is that the voters of FL and MI are fully counted. In other words, she can push the party to do the right thing, which will help them in the end. And I think she can, if not stopped by Harry and Nancy and others, move her 18 million to support the nominee. I think if she stopped cold tonight, that would no longer be possible.

    Though I know you Jeralyn and BTD of course will support the nominee no matter, many of us 18 million will not automatically do that. We must be respected and won over. So it is to that purpose that Hillary should keep fighting until the party sees the light and shapes up. And besides, I still see possibilities given the long sumer ahead. I'm hoping she keeps the options open, albeit in a sort of suspended state.

    And by the way, thank you very much Jeralyn for making a great place to put my feet up and blather on. I really appreciate it.

    check THIS crap out!!! (5.00 / 7) (#31)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:49:49 AM EST

    The most stunning quote of the article is this:

    It has been a hard-fought and sometimes bitter campaign, but Obama is not, one of his senior advisers assured me Tuesday night, going to spend a lot of time in the next few months wooing Clinton supporters whose feelings may be hurting

    HELLO President McCain.

    I've been suspecting this for a while (5.00 / 6) (#35)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:58:21 AM EST
    by seeing the Obama pundits and the Obama blogs. They seem to think they will automatically get her 18 million voters without having to work at it. And make no mistake, it isn't us vocal types on this blog they have to worry about, it's all the clingy people out there they've shown nothing but disdain. I think they actually think those people will have no choice but to vote for him. Definitely head stuck firmly in sand.

    If they keep with that, um, strategy, it will be a really sad and embarrassing November.


    You're right (5.00 / 4) (#45)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:09:22 AM EST
    My 77 yr old father couldn't tell you what a blog is, but I can tell you what he see's in the news, and he knows a hack when he sees it.

    He already told me, "son, don't pick me up to vote this year, I will sit this one out."


    BRATS! It bothers me to see elders disrespected (5.00 / 5) (#80)
    by janedw420 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:35:20 AM EST
    This next generation seems to have way more "brats". They are filled with misguided enthusiasm and lack historical perspective while MSM fanned the flames. My 70yr old mother doesn't blog, but everyday i send her links, she forwards them to her 6 sisters. She traveled to 3 states w me to campaign for Hillary. She was great on the phones. I've enjoyed spending that time with her. HRC mentioned how watching these elderly women who JUST WANT to see ONE WOMAN in the WH before they die! My mom even emailed SD's. That much, I have enjoyed.

    Obama will be too busy (5.00 / 6) (#55)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:15:12 AM EST
    working on the GE, you see.

    That's why it's all on Hillary to bring her coalition around to Obama because he'll be too busy.

    Actually, it's because Obama hasn't a clue how to win over anyone who didn't fall for him the first time around.  I think that's partly why he needs her to concede so badly - he'll have a helluva time wooing her supporters with her still standing.  I think the polls will reflect that.


    silly me (5.00 / 4) (#68)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:22:20 AM EST
    I forgot it was Hillary's place to put the party back together after Obama and Axelrod shredded it to pieces.  That attitude speaks to his obvious misogyny.

    Of course (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by SueBonnetSue on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:54:21 AM EST
    Would we expect anything less from the arrogant elitist?  He's one of the few people who look heaven ward while looking down his nose at everyone.  

    He doesn't need us, he doesn't like us, and he doesn't want it.  Ok by me.  I kind of like McCain and I trust him more than I trust Obama.  


    Dear me. (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:00:29 AM EST
    "Look at Maxine Waters. Look at who changed today" All four of them, and we don'tknow what sort of pressure was put on them.

    So, Obama REALLY doesn't want 18 million votes? Interesting.


    Yeap (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:09:56 AM EST
    not interested.  he's SO sure of himself!

    I felt sorry for Maxine (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:44:49 AM EST
    She must have declared early for Clinton.  Her district went overwhelmingly for Obama.  She didn't switch over until the very very end.  

    Sadly, I could have voted for Maxine Waters for President quicker than I ever would for Obama.  Maxine actually does accomplish things and she's also very caring, just like Hillary.  


    I hope it's true (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Valhalla on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:02:21 AM EST
    Then McCain can play Jimmy Carter in the movie of the next four years, Hillary can run again and we can all forget this astonishing nightmare.

    they still think they can blackmail with choice (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:05:53 AM EST
    especially given that Obama publicly stated in a debate that he hasn't decoded about choice vs. life. And how rich that the sexist team thinks he'll get women voters through blackmail. I guess it fits.

    let's not forget (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:12:26 AM EST
    his coulda woulda shoulda BFF Justice Roberts.

    this bit gets me: (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by pukemoana on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:10:49 AM EST

    "At the end of the day," he [an anonymous Obama advisor] went on, "Hillary supporters will look at John McCain and decide they are not going to vote for a man who will put judges on the Supreme Court who would overturn Roe v. Wade."

    so if you want reproductive rights you have to trade in political power--women have to fall in line and in return we'll deign to support (sort of) those 'women's issues.' they're setting up a game of chicken, and I don't think they even realize it


    To Democrats and Republicans alike, (5.00 / 5) (#54)
    by hlr on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:14:11 AM EST
    women are only good for birthin' babies.

    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:18:34 AM EST
    how gone with the wind of you!  but u were lacking Donna Brazile's "my momma" inflection.

    saw you jumped on the same quote (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by pukemoana on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:22:19 AM EST
    you win the prize for cut and pasting speed :-)

    Let him think that, and act accordingly (5.00 / 4) (#64)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:20:22 AM EST
    he's going to start getting arrogant with the superdelegates, too. He has 3 months now to screw up the nomination for himself, and I am trusting him to do that.

    He sure doesn't think much of women, (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by SueBonnetSue on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:57:05 AM EST
    Does he?  

    His arrogance is making me ill.


    No kidding (none / 0) (#52)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:13:12 AM EST
    chickensh1t is more like it!

    Wait a minute. (none / 0) (#97)
    by phat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:52:39 AM EST
    Isn't this just the converse of the right-to-life threat/promise?

    How is this better? It's still a threat. It's still bullying. It's not reasoned debate leading to better policy. Why do Americans who support the right to choose have to be threatened?

    Can't Obama, with his promise of unity, figure out a better way?


    Another Piece Of Insanity (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:05:47 AM EST
    Another Obama adviser, who asked not to be identified, said that he was not worried that Clinton supporters would stay angry.

    Look at how many switched today to Obama," he said. "Look at the Clinton supporters, look at Maxine Waters [the congresswoman from California who endorsed Hillary Clinton in late January but switched to Obama on Tuesday], who were passionate advocates for Hillary, but who switched to Obama."

    This idiot is focusing on politicians and not voters. There are not enough Democratic politicians to carry the day for Obama. You can unite every Democratic politician behind Obama and that will not win in November. These idiots need actual voters. You know real people who are not political junkies but vote and don't exactly feel the "love" for them and their values coming from the Obama campaign.


    you didn't quote the following (none / 0) (#41)
    by hlr on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:05:07 AM EST

    "At the end of the day," he went on, "Hillary supporters will look at John McCain and decide they are not going to vote for a man who will put judges on the Supreme Court who would overturn Roe v. Wade."

    He's riding that RvW pony, hard. Hope it doesn't throw him off on his way to the presidency.


    A lot of older women (5.00 / 5) (#49)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:11:43 AM EST
    will not respond to that for obvious bioligical reasons.  I've seen many a posts at Taylor Marsh and Clinton is 44 saying from older women, in effect, that if these younger women vote Obama, let them fight it out over RvW.

    I'm not at that stage of life, (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by hlr on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:15:16 AM EST
    yet I'm saying the same thing.

    Go figure.


    Gosh I hope (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:17:26 AM EST
    you don't think I was painting a scenario with a broad brush. I respect women WAYYYYYYY too much for that.  I was just citing examples I have seen/read.   I know a LOT of women I work with and family that are of child bearing years and that argument/threat doesn't work on them either.

    I apologize if I offended you.


    you didn't offend me at all, (5.00 / 4) (#65)
    by hlr on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:21:05 AM EST
    I was just pointing out that a lot of women across age groups are tired of this tactic.

    In fact, I have an open offer to the Democrats. If they work hard, enforce party unity in the way they're demanding it of us, and pass the Freedom of Choice Act by Nov, I'll vote for BO.

    Otherwise, I don't take them seriously. There's been a steady erosion for a long time that might only get stemmed by taking a strong stand against the fear-mongering used instead of outright action in concordance with the party platform.


    Even if we lose RvW federally (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by janarchy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:26:36 AM EST
    I don't think it'll ever go away completely. It'll become an individual states thing. At this point, I'm not too fussed about it -- so their threats don't scare me. If the Dems were really so worried about reproductive rights, they might have kept Conservative judges off the SCOTUS who claimed they didn't have any opinions on the matter like Roberts and Alito, rather than letting them go through. (Let alone people like Clarence Thomas) So that dog don't hunt.

    Not to mention I don't trust Obama's position on that particular issue anyway. He's been too vague (unlike, oh, nearly everything else)


    I can't remember one election (5.00 / 4) (#100)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:54:01 AM EST
    in the last 30 years where the "replacing the Supreme Court Justices/Roe v Wade" canard wasn't thrown up.  It seems like standard discussion for a Presidential election.  



    Right: God, guns, gays (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:10:43 AM EST
    Left: Choice, ?, ?
    Vote for us or else?
    I want to vote FOR something, not "the other guy is worse".

    Roe v Wade Really Worked In 04 (4.50 / 2) (#201)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:13:54 AM EST
    Kerry lost white women by 10% or 11% which cost him the election.

    I totally disagree w/your (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:42:25 AM EST
    viewpoint.  Please read essay in NYT Tuesday on pre-Roe v. Wade abortions. I linked to it in an earlier comment Tuesday.

    What about them? (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by janarchy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:49:52 AM EST
    I am well aware of the history of abortion prior to RvW. My own grandmother had one somewhere in the early 1930s -- in New York City, performed by a doctor who was sympathetic to the plight of women. My mother had friends who had to go through the ordeal prior to RvW.

    As long as there are women who want abortions, especially those with money, there will be outlets for it, some safer than others. And despite the threats, I do think that given that the country is till mostly pro-choice, it's just another bogeyman the Republicans pull out every few years to rile up their base. If they actually did get rid of it, it wouldn't be very effective, now would it?


    We've had this discussion before, so (none / 0) (#99)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:53:19 AM EST
    I won't prolong it here.  As you know, I support Clinton; however, in my opinion, it is short-sighted to ignore the implications of McCain's SCOTUS nominees on this and other issues of importance to me.  

    When NARAL endorses Obama (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:43:49 AM EST
    over Hillary, the fight has been lost at the grass-root level.

    Just ask all those former Naderites who gave us Dubya in 2000.


    I tis about to happen again, methinks. (none / 0) (#251)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:19:57 AM EST
    R v W is a big deal (none / 0) (#128)
    by travc on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:54:28 AM EST
    I agree that using it as a club or wedge is bad, but...

    My grandmother died from an illegal abortion.  Not very many options for rural and poor women in less than progressive states.  Unfortunately, that hasn't changed much.


    practically speaking (5.00 / 3) (#191)
    by urduja on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:43:03 AM EST
    even with Roe vs Wade, the options have greatly diminished. Very few doctors are being trained and very few doctors are choosing to perform abortions.  

    What good is R v W if there are no providers anyway, particularly in rural areas? I think that making the morning after pill and the RU-486 widely accessible and available is the way to go.


    Uhhh.... (none / 0) (#131)
    by Alec82 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:02:54 AM EST
    As long as there are women who want abortions, especially those with money, there will be outlets for it, some safer than others.

     This is the argument that socially liberal (but rich) Republicans have used against pro-choice Dems for some time.

     It is akin to a rich gay couple saying that marriage rights are superfluous...because their finances and clout will survive the alternative.  

     Yeah Yeah I know...I am "threatening" Clinton's supporters with some dark hysteria...


    The best way to avoid SC changes like that (5.00 / 0) (#157)
    by andrys on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:30:44 AM EST
    is for the SDs eventually to reverse some of their votes and nominate the only Democrat currently consistently beating McCain in electoral college polling matchups.

      We have a hint of Obama's vote-pulling power post-Wright et al, since March.  A good look at March through today involving voters from his own party while he was designated presumptive nominee by Russert et al will give a disturbing clue.  But people have to vote the way they prefer, even if it loses us even more the SC and accompanying rights.


    That was back in the dark ages. (none / 0) (#93)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:48:27 AM EST
    There's now an underground internet organization that will teach you how to perform safe abortions.

    Amazing what a little knowledge and whole lotta motivation will do.  No, women don't want to go back there and they are making sure that they don't have to.


    Do the internet advice-givers (none / 0) (#96)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:51:11 AM EST
    recommend a physician perform the procedure?  Are the risk factors spelled out?  What is the mortality rate?  

    He's riding the wrong pony. (5.00 / 4) (#62)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:18:51 AM EST
    Don't they get that it's the Pander Pony's turn?

    Fox was riding this pony too tonight (5.00 / 8) (#70)
    by Valhalla on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:23:18 AM EST
    But I think the DNC is badly misreading the demographics they need to win in November.

    I've seen enough races go to anti-choice candidates that I know, for many people, abortion just isn't a litmus test issue for them.  For some people they need, it's not an issue at all.

    For those who, like me, it used to be a litmus test, Obama's vague talk about needing a pastor to exercise rights over one's own body is almost as frightening as anything the SC can dish out.

    For those paying attention, the SC already has their anti-choice majority.  The fight went to the states long ago.

    And being pro-choice isn't just about one issue.  I'm pro-choice because in a way, it's the symbol of being respected as a person who can make my own choices and not have them forced on me.  The bad boy behavior heaped onto Hillary this campaign has made explicit the utter lack of respect the DNC, the blogger bubble, and Obama has for me.

    So they can ride that pony right off a cliff, I no longer care.  (well, I wouldn't want the pony to get hurt, of course.  poor pony).


    Believe it or not, (5.00 / 5) (#73)
    by hlr on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:27:01 AM EST
    Obama's vague talk about needing a pastor to exercise rights over one's own body is almost as frightening as anything the SC can dish out.

    this is the 'libertarian Dem' position -- as long as the woman is surrounded by male authority figures like husband, pastor, doctor, we can tell the gubmint to stay out of it. The idea is that the males in authority will get offended by the gubmint interfering with their property interests.

    It's spelled out in Saletan's book on the abortion wars -- quite enlightening (and very cowardly of the Democrats).


    Yup (5.00 / 0) (#194)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:01:08 AM EST
    And completely consistent with libertarian male positions on most women's issues (e.g., prostitution, etc.)

    Nonsensical criticism (none / 0) (#127)
    by Alec82 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:53:31 AM EST
    Obama is either the "libertarian" candidate or he is the "stealth conservative" candidate or he is the "egghead and AA candidate," AAs being a voting bloc hardly trending libertarian.  In reality his base is pretty diverse as is Senator Clinton's.  He didn't win over these delegates on some sort of libertarian platform.  

     In 1992, nominee Clinton proudly embraced the "hostile libertarian" takeover of the party.  And now it is a bad thing? Get your strategy straight.


    Catholics vote for a pro-choice candiate (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:28:54 AM EST
    as do other Christian church goers. Looking at the exit polls tells you they have no prob with Hillary.

    And, yes, they will catch my wrath if they hurt ANY pony  ;)


    The Unity Pony offer we ever see is an RvW Nag (5.00 / 5) (#124)
    by Ellie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:30:19 AM EST
    It's tired, lame and never goes anywhere but they drag that wheezer out every election and whip her upright just long enough to wobble upright for a tragicomic display.

    Dems have had hundreds of junctures to shore up Roe and should affirmatively done so for cherished core values and principles involving global human rights.

    Dems callously shunt these onto the back burner for serial piety prancing and for the pearl-clutching media. F*ck them all for the senseless death, disease and suffering that THEIR hypocrisy has caused.

    For my entire lifetime, these alleged Dems have turned a blind eye to infant and child mortality rates far exceeding those in regions with sensible, health and well-being options for reproductive health.

    These selectively-blinkered SCOTUS concern trolls during a tiny pre-election window try to guilt, shame and bully the very victims and targets of policies no-choice deadbeats actively promote back at Club Congress.

    Minority AND majority Dems let the Bush admin stack anti-choice ringers on every level of court, often without even a peep of protest against stonewalling, without a bleat of proper questioning, without even a perfunctory attempt at voting as a block or using procedural gamesmanship.

    No more. I'll support the party after I see some real action on this, and by that I'd consider no less than day one of the first hundred days of any branch of govt.

    Go tell it to Obama supporters, Wright, Casey Jr, Roberts and the hard rad right Obama's made disgusting multiple overtures towards, to fulfill his Unity pledge to be their new BFF.

    I'm Indy, I'm peaceful, I'm out.


    I am absolutely (5.00 / 1) (#215)
    by magisterludi on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:35:32 AM EST
    repelled by blackmail. The Obama grlz and their uteri are on their own.

    Of course not (none / 0) (#223)
    by Andy08 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:59:21 AM EST
    he will let his inner right pick up and woo Reps.
    dissafected with McCain instead. He has taken many positions which were those of the Reps and not of the Dems. so it won't be hard for him to tout them.

    Jeralyn, Thank you so much for your excellent (5.00 / 5) (#37)
    by DeborahNC on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:00:46 AM EST
    coverage of this campaign and the insights that you provided about the candidates and the people behind the scenes.

    Reading TalkLeft has become a part of my daily routine. I don't comment every time I read; otherwise, I probably would get less work done.

    Thanks for the Janis Joplin tune. She's one of my favorites. Somehow, I think Janis would've been a Hillary supporter.

    But, you're absolutely correct about Hillary; she won't let herself feel like a victim. I admire her so much for that. I wrote a letter to her tonight to let her know that I was proud to be one of her supporters, and I would respect whatever decision she made regarding her campaign.

    I also wrote, "Your style, intelligence, and overall comportment have been exemplary during your campaign, and you have served as an outstanding role model for so many people, especially women. Further, your knowledge of the issues is unsurpassed..."

    Even though she's extremely strong, everybody needs recognition and a pat on the back sometimes.

    Anyway, I'm feeling kind of down right now, so please have a snifter of brandy for me too. I still have a bit of work to do. Ugh!

    The work that you do here, Jeralyn, is truly meaningful and appreciated.


    Jeralyn (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by janarchy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:08:33 AM EST
    Thank you so much for this place and your non-stop insights on things. I honestly don't know what I would've done if I hadn't found TL back in February because it's helped keep me sane (well, mostly)

    Thanks for the articles. Thanks for the laughs. Thanks for the great music videos. Seriously -- you're brilliant.

    Even though I can't support your decision to support Obama (assuming he does get that nomination), I will stop by to read things.

    (and if you do write that book and need a freelance writer/researcher, you've got my email. I'm even a published author, albeit of books on pop culture!)

    I'll B 'one of 18 million' for the race and GE (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Ellie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:09:03 AM EST
    This will be a phrase I'll be using in very scrap of activist correspondence, every fact check, every GOTV for SenC and so on ...

    It's important that wherever the chips fall, SenC's phenomenal accomplishments not be allowed to be diminished in number, or tarnished and dismissed by her detractors and political enemies.

    I can't believe the relentless vicious quality of smiling ungenerous hacks like Jamal Simmons. He can't even spare a second of camera spin-time to compliment -- even for perfunctory appearance -- a fellow combatant.

    I'm definitely passionate about HRC and as tenaciously competitive in my specialties as she is now, so I know how to keep a cool head when everything else is pounding.

    When I see an ungracious opponent smugly using a perceived moment of weakness to prance it shows ME a gap in their game.

    The collection of smarmy self-congrating villainy is so big and so dumbly piling on the "loser" it's like the meeting of goons in the first half hour of a Wu Tang film.

    Obama's declaration is on a loop and they're falling over themselves to out-inflate the historicity and magnitude of tonight's "victory" by Obama in anticipation of SenC's impending concession, apology, and dragging of shamed and shameful @ss into a nunnery.

    (I wish I'd recorded this because it plays like pure PoliPron.)

    The popular vote... (5.00 / 5) (#47)
    by OrangeFur on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:10:12 AM EST
    As Jeralyn says, if you count all the independently counted and certified votes, Hillary Clinton won by around 288,000 votes.

    Even if you were to excessively generous, and give Obama the caucus estimates from the four states with no vote tallies, except use the Washington primary, which had much higher participation than the caucus. Then RCP says she won by 228,000 votes.

    Okay, maybe the Washington primary shouldn't count, and we can use an estimate from the caucus, though I can't find one anywhere. Then she beats him by 178,000 votes.

    Not enough? Okay, give him a big chunk of the Michigan uncommitted vote even though he got zero votes in that state. Chris Bowers, who is sympathetic to Obama, pegs this at around 173,000 votes. So she's still 5,000 votes ahead.

    Pretty much anyway you dice it, Clinton won the popular vote. An inconvenient fact, but true nonetheless.

    Remember when Democrats cared about things like the popular vote? That was awesome.

    So, the Padres lost to the Cubbies, (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:18:27 AM EST
    but, who cares.  I come home, turn on the ocmputer and learn Hillary Clinton will continue to advocate for the 18 million voters who support her.  What a classy, stirring speech.  Exciting.  

    Sisters of Mercy (Leonard Cohen) (5.00 / 0) (#66)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:22:05 AM EST
    I also thought of "I'm Your Man", or woman as the case may be.  Probably my favorite serenade ever - although I don't like Cohen singing it.

    Check out NYT on line. (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:35:50 AM EST
    Re whether Clinton would accept VP slot if offered.  Source says she may as she is worried about SCOTUS.  

    I just pulled this from ABC News (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:49:15 AM EST

    Hillary Clinton 17,784,437
    Barack Obama 17,479,386

    -ABC News. The headline is mine.


    Ditto! (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:47:38 AM EST
    from my 'island' of Brooklyn (serious downpour happening!) to this island of sanity, a HUGE thank you!

    same (5.00 / 4) (#110)
    by pukemoana on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:04:27 AM EST
    from a New Zealander plucked off islands and finding herself on a continent far far from the sea :-(

    kia ora, thanks, to Jeralyn, BTD and the posters here--it's been fun to lurk / learn / laugh


    a word or two (5.00 / 4) (#111)
    by scythia on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:10:26 AM EST

    I'm not a regular commenter here, but I wanted to say something.

    I'm an Obama supporter. Over on the blogs I normally frequent, the commenters are hating on Clinton, then a few Clinton supporters came in to start hating on the Obama supporters, who in turn started firing back on the newcomers, and so on.  You know how it goes.

    Anyway, for whatever reason I just got bored with the Ten Minute Hate routine, so I decided to check out the reaction over here.

    To be honest, I was expecting...well, I don't know what.  But what I found was a lot of classy, heartfelt posts.

    I think a lot of the animosity in this campaign stems from the fact that it's a lot easier to say ridiculously offensive and insulting things from the anonymity of the internet.  As a result, people get polarized very quickly and a giant negative feedback cycle is created.

    From what I've read here tonight, y'all seem like good people.  I know what it's like to invest a good portion of yourself in a candidate and have them come up short.  I'll never forget 2004, coming back from a grueling day of GOTV, only to watch the election slowly slip away.

    Anyway, I admire your passion and dedication, not only to Hillary, but to your own values as well.  I hope by the time November rolls around we'll all be able to work together for our true goal: sweeping the Republicans out of DC once and for all.

    Thanks for reading.  Have a nice night, and a better tomorrow.

    If this is genuine, I wonder where you were before (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Ellie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:40:29 AM EST
    ... the Turfing Points Memo instructed Obama astro-turfers to bully, berate, insult and deride Clinton supporters simply for exercising a choice off the Obama or Else menu.

    If you're genuinely concerned, please advise your fellow Obama supporters to urge the campaign and Obama that straight up honesty will go further than than hastily cobbled marketing-savvy directed words.

    In last night's and this morning's coverage, TeamObie's spokespersons arrogantly displayed an appalling show of smug, barely contained sneering. They're far from being officially declared to be actual (rather than presumptively) running a general election and spent more time floating Obama's cabinet AS PRESIDENT.

    That tells me all I need to know about why Obama will be the most expensive landslide loser in political history.

    If you're not genuinely concerned, as  I wish you luck in being part of the most ex


    I was just around the corner, hanging out (none / 0) (#156)
    by scythia on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:24:24 AM EST
    ... the Turfing Points Memo instructed Obama astro-turfers to bully, berate, insult and deride Clinton supporters simply for exercising a choice off the Obama or Else menu.

    I have literally no idea what this is referring to.  Something at Josh Marshall's site?  Is this why all your comment sections require login?

    If you're genuinely concerned, please advise your fellow Obama supporters to urge the campaign and Obama that straight up honesty will go further than than hastily cobbled marketing-savvy directed words.

    Well, I have no contact with the Obama campaign.  I think one of my friends signed up to do advance work for them, but I haven't spoken to her in a while.

    That being said, one thing I noticed--and again, I admit my biases here--was that the Hillary supporters I saw tended to conflate the actions of  Obama supporters with Obama himself, and this was the cause of much of their indignation.  [Obama supporters did this too, but from what I saw, much, much later.]  

    I think this probably has something to with the media treatment the candidates received.  With most pundits piling on Clinton, I'm sure from her supporters' viewpoint it must have seemed to be a huge negative echo chamber, with TV, print, bloggers, and commenters all firing away.

    Nevertheless, it might behoove you to ask yourself--if you're upset--whether the source of the anger is Obama himself, or what some twit said on the internet.

    To address your larger point: I am genuinely concerned about the party being divided.  While I supported BHO, I made up my mind pretty late. The only thing that's been on my brain for the last four years has been victory in November.  I think this election's going to a HUGE win for the Democrats at all levels, and I want to see our gains maximized.

    But that's not the reason I came over here.  Honestly, I just had a really pleasant day today.  No media exposure whatsoever--I even left my cell phone at home for most of it.  When I finally logged on and saw all the vitriol, it just didn't jive with how I was feeling.

    I guess for once I just felt like I should act on the internet the way I do in real life.  That's all.

    Again, best wishes.  Thanks for letting me post here.


    Read up on TL as closely as TPM! (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Ellie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:01:55 AM EST
    Not only should a week of skimming the thread give you all the answers you seek the writing's far more enjoyable, the links are to corroborated evidence and the diversity of opinion is much broader!

    Have a great time and see you next week!


    What will this blog become (5.00 / 4) (#113)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:12:07 AM EST
    if Obama becomes the "certified nominee"?  

    Will it be another one of those Obama Adoration blogs?  

    I know I posted here a little bit when the Plame thing was going on and I was hoping Karl and Rove would end up in jail, but I'm not a regular poster on any of the political blogs anymore (not since the Clinton Impeachment -- and back then we didn't have blogs, we had boards).  

    I was quite delighted when I found this blog full of Hillary supporters.  

    If Hillary goes down totally and completely, I'm probably going to vote for McCain though I would like to read something from BTD about how he decided to vote for Obama and for what reasons (I dunno but maybe he would sway me).  

    I'll still vote for Democrats down ticket.  

    Anyway, I just wonder what will happen here?  I liked this blog when it talked about political issues and crime.  I'd be less delighted if it became another "Obama touched me like no other politician has ever touched me" blog.  

    If I understand you correctly... (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by OrangeFur on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:27:57 AM EST
    ... if you take away some of Clinton's votes in Michigan and give them to Obama, then he's ahead?

    I think I've heard that somewhere else recently.

    Honestly (5.00 / 6) (#129)
    by IzikLA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:57:37 AM EST
    Tonight,I want to cry.  I am a 31 year old white gay male in California.  I am extremely proud to have been and to continue to be a supporter of Hillary Clinton.  I am surrounded by supporters of Barack Obama and the things I am hearing from them tonight are not at all convincing.  

    I went to an Obama celebration tonight and I heard no celebration about the party or about coming together.  Of all the times that I had difficulty supporting Obama's position's or his supporters I at least always chose to believe (against all odds) that it was Democrats above all else.  But tonight all I heard was smearing of the Clinton's, and this, on the night that they were supposed to be only celebrating.

    I would truly hope that this was not what it has come to.  And yet, as I watch CNN tonight, as I hear all the bullsh?t, honestly, from Arianna Huffinton and Jamal Simmons, I want to scream.  These people have truly lost touch with the people.  It's all "racist" if people vote against him and pure and good if we do.  As a Californian that doesn't base everything on race I am purely against basing everything just on that, as I would be for basing voting on Clinton only because she is a woman.  I NEVER voted for her because she was a woman.  It's disgusting to me to see Simmons and Huffington despise either of the Clinton's on the news tonight.

    WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!  Figure out how to WIN in November.  Don't act like you don't need one part of the party to win.  You have a lot of work to do and I am willing to be a part of it, like a lot of people, if you only ASK me to and ACCEPT me as well.  Be done with this horrible attitude because you will LOSE in November if this is it.

    it was expected.... (5.00 / 3) (#193)
    by Josey on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:00:20 AM EST
    >>>>I went to an Obama celebration tonight and....all I heard was smearing of the Clinton's, and this, on the night that they were supposed to be only celebrating.

    since "beat the B---h!" was the basis of Obama's campaign and the reason the Establishment ran him.
    Obamamites have been on the hate-Hillary crack a longggg time and have spent more time emulating their Leader demonizing Hillary and the Clinton admin than learning Obama's positions on the issues.
    Some are so addicted to the crack that an Obama win is secondary.


    Fantastic statement (5.00 / 3) (#130)
    by IzikLA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:01:39 AM EST
    The fact of the matter is they have basically the same amount of votes.  The difference is that she has won the swing states by double digits.

    Please discuss.  Truly.  I am all for it.

    when Hillary says its over (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by weltec2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:11:31 AM EST
    and not before. Very nicely stated Jeralyn.

    The Media Primary won't be over (5.00 / 0) (#137)
    by HenryFTP on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:32:26 AM EST
    until Hillary and Bill Clinton are read out of the Party:


    I am terribly confused -- I understand the rancor in the National Media, because they made their selection and Hillary has, wisely and courageously, made it clear that the decision rests with the voters, not the media. I don't understand the Obama camp -- they have run a skillful campaign in many ways but their politics since the Pennsylvania primary have been dreadful. Yesterday's events were really just the latest case in point -- if you've got the inside track to the nomination, all the acrimony is wildly counterproductive. They seem incapable of seeing how the "if you're not for us, you're against us" rhetoric becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    I am an old-fashioned, pretty Yellow Dog Democrat who has long accepted the fundamental idea that our Party is a great coalition, the only truly national Party. I still think Scoop Jackson was a good Democrat even though he was off the reservation about Soviet technological superiority, and I can get along with Blue Dogs as long as they don't become Boll Weevils. The right wing has succeeded over the past 40 years in dividing the Party and thus the country, largely through identity politics. That the Party is playing into their hands, largely because the Leadership is more interested in the power struggle than in the Party, much less the country, sickens me.

    The seeds of distrust that have been sown may bear some very bitter fruit.

    Who cares about the MSM! (5.00 / 3) (#146)
    by Serene1 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:51:38 AM EST
    One of the biggest myths that got shattered this campaign season was the non existent power of the MSM as influencer's or opinion makers.

    Throughout the campaign the MSM couldn't have made their dislike for the Clintons more obvious or their adoration for Obama more embarrassing.
    Inspite of their often over the top melodramatic declaration of Hillary as the evil witch and Obama as the saviour, they couldn't stop Hillary from beating Obama soundly in most of the key contests. All their adoration hasn't helped their candidate an easy ride to victory.
    Also remember these were the same people who cheerleaded Bush Jr. in his initial years and pliantly allowed him to make his ridiculous case for Iraq war.


    ding7777, that's out of bounds for me. (none / 0) (#140)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:38:17 AM EST
    Thanks (5.00 / 5) (#144)
    by barbarajmay on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:44:17 AM EST
    Thanks, Jeralyn, for your class and dignity.  And thank you for creating an envirnment in which Senator Clinton may be treated with the same.

    Thank you Jeralyn. (5.00 / 4) (#148)
    by Joelarama on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:56:11 AM EST
    And good work BTD and all the rest.

    For me it's over when Hillary says it's over.  And that means I will support the nominee, just as she will.

    But I will not suspend my skepticism.  I used to think critical thought and respect for well-meaning progressives were essential to being a Democrat (among other things).  

    That's still my kind of Democrat, and the folks at Talk Left are my kind of Democrats.

    Joe... (5.00 / 3) (#186)
    by Larry Bailey on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:36:04 AM EST
    ...hello from an old acquaintance at the orange blog.  Good to see so many of us here now, instead of there.

    Gopd to see you as well. (5.00 / 3) (#199)
    by Joelarama on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:11:47 AM EST
    I won't be heading back to the Orange Kool-aid site.    

    I was set (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by melro on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:36:47 AM EST
    to vote for Obama if Hillary lost. But CNN is rubbing salt in the wound already this morning by questioning whether or not Bill Clinton???? helped or hurt her case. Are these guys for real? The lopsided justice and media screwed Hillary. If they keep it up, it will get harder and harder to vote for THEIR candidate.

    The media (5.00 / 3) (#165)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:00:02 AM EST
    is Obama's worst enemy and he doesn't even realize it. Their fawning has caused people to harden against him.

    There's only one "agreed" metric (5.00 / 3) (#167)
    by HenryFTP on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:00:26 AM EST
    and that is a majority of the voting delegates, period.

    All the other "metrics" are nothing more than political arguments aimed at swaying the superdelegates -- quite necessary, because neither candidate won sufficient pledged delegates through the primaries and caucuses for a first ballot majority.

    That is also why the Media Primary was and is so important -- the Media Primary has a significant influence on the superdelegates, and its importance should not be discounted for the general election. I give the Obama team plenty of credit for winning the Media Primary -- notwithstanding the Clinton Derangement Syndrome in the media, Obama had to deal with a few high and tight fastballs and some wicked breaking stuff himself, and the long road of Democratic presidential campaigns is littered with hopefuls who came to grief (Muskie's tears, Biden's plagiarism, etc.).

    The Obama team hasn't yet seemed to grasp, however, that the voters are much less impressed with the winner of the Media Primary than they might have been in days of yore (something the "out-of-date" Clinton campaign figured out from New Hampshire onward). That's why I sure I hope he recognizes that what the Media will call "weakness" a lot of Democrats will call "strength", that is, really reaching his hand out to both Clintons and their millions of supporters.

    I agree with you for the most part - (5.00 / 1) (#234)
    by minordomo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:18:57 AM EST
    - though I'm not sure about your point regarding the voters being impressed with the winner of what you term the "Media Primary". At this point, Obama holds an absolute lead in pledged delegates and a strong lead in superdelegates, which is likely to increase even further in the coming days. He is now perceived - with good reason, now that he has passed the magic number - as the chosen nominee, and will be campaigning as such in the coming months, as he should. He can't very well take off until the end of August.

    This campaign will have an effect on his perception as well, making it harder and harder IMO for Clinton to re-insert herself into the public conversation, other than very negatively. If she continues to campaign against Obama, with no more primaries ahead, she will for the most part be perceived as a sore loser, intent on destroying the Democrats' chances in November.

    It is possible that she will switch to campaigning for a VP position, though I find it difficult to see a unity ticket coming off, not least due to their clashing messages up to now. It's not impossible, but I don't think it'll happen.


    Politico (5.00 / 6) (#168)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:00:50 AM EST
    is reporting that McCain to heavily invest in picking up Clinton's supporters.

    That'll be the day (none / 0) (#174)
    by melro on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:16:17 AM EST
    Huh? (5.00 / 6) (#178)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:20:10 AM EST
    It seems that we're ripe for the picking the way Obama and the party has treated us.

    I still cannot get over Jeff Toobin's... (5.00 / 5) (#190)
    by Larry Bailey on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:40:32 AM EST
    ...comment from last night around 10 p.m., when in a rage at Senator Clinton NOT conceding (as he clearly hoped she would), he referred to both Clinton's as having "deranged narcissism".  He reads Daily Kos too much and too late, as that was LAST WEEK'S hate-the-Clintons meme there.

    Wonder how many comments CNN is getting about that little bit of outrage?

    CNN to girls: Sorry sweeties only men make history (5.00 / 5) (#195)
    by Ellie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:01:17 AM EST
    In the last two hours CNN has rhapsodized over Obama's "historical moment" of crowning himself the Democratic nominee for president.

    Not once have they mentioned the magnitude of Sen Clinton's accomplishments or the milestones that she has set in her historically significant run for women.

    Kira has referred to Obama's premature endzone dance as "MLK-like" and rather than allow Charlie Rengell to talk about Sen Clinton's run, Kira grills him on the "threat" to Obama's life.

    Then she cuts him off and says, "What history!"

    Quel d0uche!

    Your morning mugging, part two: CBC 'pressed' (5.00 / 2) (#205)
    by Ellie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:18:53 AM EST
    ... to accept Sen Clinton as VP. Yep, someone's thugging the black congress critters to do this, though Suzanne Malveaux and John Roberts use the passive voice, can't pinpoint who's doing, and don't appear interested in exporing beyond the thuggery.

    Schlub on the street: black pedestrians massaged towards what yesterday's "historical" Obama victory meant. White pedestrians (a fraction of the black ones) asked only if they'd support the victorious one. No lead-in of "presumptive", "uncertified", or the info that Sen. Clinton hadn't conceded.

    No mention from these two journalists of Sen Clinton's accomplishments, and later, Sen C's supporters are confined to explaining why she should should be considered -- worthy was the reading -- for VP.

    Word associations when describing Obama supporters: pioneering, historical, legendary folks themselves, paired against a {--- crickets ---] guy {--- crickets ---] and yet more {--- crickets ---].

    After blathering for an hour about Obama making history, Kira says that EVERYONE is talking about Obama making history! History! History! History!

    Another rookie male getting by on (3.00 / 2) (#214)
    by Serene1 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:35:31 AM EST
    his likability over a much qualified and more capable female.
    The only history he is making is because of the color of his skin but then he has not done anything specific for Black causes to be earning that stripes unlike Hillary who has actively worked for her gender causes.

    Jeralyn and BTD (5.00 / 4) (#207)
    by Coral on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:21:51 AM EST
    Thank you for providing an oasis for those of us thirsty for respectful dialogue and a place where Clinton supporters could express our opinions.

    This is a sad day for me. But Hillary Clinton's dignity, strength, perseverance, and courage in the face of the nonstop onslaught of outrageous attacks has been an inspiration.

    caucuses don't reflect the will of the voters (5.00 / 1) (#209)
    by Josey on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:23:55 AM EST
    Obama targeted universities in caucus and red states with high number of delegates - and lost crucial states Dems need to win in Nov.

    He made Race a central part of his campaign, engaging in race-baiting while attending a church that promotes hate, victimhood, and an anti-white ideology.
    Obama even called Democrats "racists" for not supporting him - and now needs White politicians and white voters to pull him over the finish line in Nov.

    Uh (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:57:32 AM EST
    yes, the DNC stole Hillary's votes in MI and gave them to Obama.

    sorry jeralyn, i can't agree (5.00 / 1) (#211)
    by cpinva on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:26:10 AM EST
    with you. if sen. obama is the nominee, it will not be in the best interests of the country to support him, simply because he's purportedly a democrat.

    i see him as just a more educated george bush,  still unable to put together a complete sentence unless it's scripted. the real danger lies in what i fear will be an obsequious majority democratic congress, afraid to not support him, regardless of how ridiculous the policy might be.

    that's the harm i see of a pres obama, to both country and party.

    Obama took himself out of the ballot (5.00 / 2) (#219)
    by Serene1 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:41:07 AM EST
    and reaped the benefit in Iowa. Nobody asked him to. He made a calculated move. Let him reap the reward of his calculated move, you can't have it both ways.

    Hillary has every right moral and otherwise to count the MI vote. She decided to stay on in the ballot when all other candidates decided to withdraw. She should be rewarded for her acumen and respect to the voters who still came to vote.

    Looks like he did reap the rewards in Iowa. (none / 0) (#230)
    by minordomo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:07:40 AM EST
    But there's nothing wrong with removing your name from the ballot in an election in which you have been asked to - and have agreed to - not participate and which you have been assured will not count in the primary process.

    Be that as it may, it still doesn't support an argument that the spoiled election in MI could and should have been taken at face value. That, as I understand it, was the Michigan state party's stance: the spoiled election (including Clinton's 55% and hence the 73 delegates that this would have resulted in) didn't count, and they attempted to come up with the closest estimate representing Michigan's Democratic voters.

    Their approach may not have been perfect and you may disagree with it, but given the two alternatives presented to the RBC (the Clinton camp saying no Obama voters in MI, the Obama camp saying the election was spoiled, let's split it 50:50), what the state party came up with was what they deemed closest to a fair representation of Michigan's voters, and it was up to them to come up with an allocation of the delegates, which the RBC did not want to usurp.

    It was deemed a fair compromise even by the Clinton supporters on the committee, even though Obama reportedly had sufficient votes to support the 50:50 proposal. Giving Obama zero voters in MI was a non-starter, as it would have completely disenfranchised Obama voters in MI, even though they assuredly existed.

    One can present reasonable arguments that other approaches to representing Michigan's voters would have been more fair, like a 73-55 split, but the difference - 2 delegates (4 delegates @ 50%) - doesn't make much difference in the end.


    Obama (5.00 / 0) (#224)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:59:55 AM EST
    is already slated to lose the election. All the positive press in the world isn't going to help him. In fact, it has really hurt him.

    R-E-S-P-E-C-T (5.00 / 2) (#227)
    by Barbara D on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:04:36 AM EST
    With winning the popular vote, in one of the closest primaries in history, Clinton deserves to pull out of the race under her own terms. She should be allowed the luxury of making a modestly defiant speech in honor of her 18 million supporters.

    No doubt she will be there for Obama come the fall, but not showing her the respect she earned as a very formidable candidate in a very tight race will only serve to split the party more than it already is. Obama supporters should not succumb to their urges to brush "the little lady" aside.

    While Hillary will help to unite the party, it is up to Obama (and by extension, his supporters)to unite the party. It is what the person at the top of the ticket should do. Leaving it to her (as many in the media and the Obama blogs suggest) sends the message he is too weak to even bring the party together and diminishes him as a general election candidate.

    A Troll Is Sheep's Clothing (5.00 / 1) (#248)
    by flashman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:52:48 AM EST
    If you care about the things Hillary cares about, like health care and the future of Roe v. Wade you need to get behind the nominee, Barak Obama.

    Why can't you Obamatrons see that you're hurting your candidate when you mock Hillary Clinton's supporters with canned insults and character assassinations???  This blog if for intelligent discussions about the campaign, not for the rote recitation of Clinton Hater's talking points.  

    This kind of arrogance is NOT going to win for you, and you need to just stop.  Unless you're really a McCain operative, and have figured out how to drive support away.

    it's over... (1.00 / 2) (#118)
    by vrusimov on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:24:03 AM EST
    it may not be over for Clinton, but by all the metrics that count Obama looks like the nominee of the party, and he stated as much tuesday night...defiant to the last, i can feel her pain and applaud her efforts, but it's time to tip the king and resign...she has no winning continuation...

    Sadly for you (5.00 / 4) (#120)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:27:15 AM EST
    she could still win if she doesn't concede.  All she needs to do is convince all those super delegates to come over to her side -- and she has until AUGUST to do that.  

    Poor Obama.  He didn't get enough Pledge delegates to be declared the nominee.  


    And he needed the SD's help (5.00 / 5) (#126)
    by Serene1 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:38:39 AM EST
    to push him towards the finishing line.

    Obama supporters and Obama owe an apology big time to both the Dem Establishment and SD's because of whose help Obama may well become the winner.

    Early on, Team Obama and their Dear Leader in all their wisdom kept dissing the Dem Establishment as some kind of monstrous anti democracy kind of unit and the SD's as - an unwanted, anti democratic, way too powerful than required unit.

    Now thanks to these two undemocratic units (their words) Obama is able to declare himself the winner.

    The more things change the more they remain the same.


    Sadly... (5.00 / 0) (#136)
    by weltec2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:21:32 AM EST
    This is a push on Obama's part to force things. Unfortunately Nancy P & the party leadership seem to be in Obama's camp on this.

    I think it's also correct to say that (1.00 / 1) (#240)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:52:24 AM EST
    She's correct that more voters chose her (pdf) than any other candidate in the history of presidential primaries.
    more voters voted against her than any other candidate in the history of presidential primaries.

    I agree..... (none / 0) (#249)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:02:43 AM EST
    Though I like to look at it as more people voted than in any other primary ever....that's nothing but good.

    It coulda been more too, but some states have closed primaries and don't want to let independents have a say until Nov.  Who knows, more open primaries might have made a difference for Clinton...not that I give a sh*t.  

    If my state had 'em, Ron Paul would have had one more vote.


    This is more Hillary's song (none / 0) (#2)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:20:10 AM EST
    Talk Left (none / 0) (#79)
    by rmurray4574 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:33:37 AM EST
    I do not appreciate being censored...my comment did not contain one cuss word and there for it was not necessary. If my support for Hillary over Obama and my distrust of him is an issue than maybe you should send me an email and explain what was the problem is. If I wanted my opinions censored I would move to China.

    If you feel that strongly, this is (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:47:20 AM EST
    not a good blogging home for you.

    Until now (none / 0) (#98)
    by rmurray4574 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:53:17 AM EST
    Wasn't bad until 5 minutes ago.

    Maybe you used a bad combination (none / 0) (#106)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:58:53 AM EST
    of words?  I've had one post that got hung up for moderation but it posted eventually.  

    Over the top (none / 0) (#115)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:13:58 AM EST
    criticism of Obama, IIRC.

    Not surprised it got moderated.


    rmurray4574, don't take it personal (none / 0) (#147)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:53:12 AM EST
    in the rush to unclog her blog, Jeralyn sometimes deletes the innocent along with the guilty.

    Jeralyn said no personal attacks on either (none / 0) (#160)
    by andrys on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:40:59 AM EST
    candidate, and that includes Obama.

    I suspect you sort of violated that edict (which I saw yesterday).

    She's made the most civilized,informative primary forum on the Net.


    Wow (none / 0) (#109)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:03:50 AM EST
    For an irrelevant metric, you sure spend a lot of time dissecting the minutiae.

    Obama! (none / 0) (#114)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:12:32 AM EST
    Oh.  Are you listening now?
    Gotta push those buttons jusssst right.

    Ha! (5.00 / 3) (#119)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:24:11 AM EST
    You got that right!  

    Tonight is not the night for divisive posts and more "Get over it" and "Your guy lost, end of the story" posts.  

    It appears a lot of Obama supporters are completely tone deaf.  They see nothing wrong with the baloney they are posting.  

    It's like saying "Your dreams died, but who cares?  Get over it.  Move on."  


    What's worse (5.00 / 4) (#123)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:29:43 AM EST
    They don't even bother to say
    "There, there, now you just tell us what Obama needs to do to get your vote and we'll make sure he gets the message.".

    All preaching, all the time.


    Obama campaign was not (none / 0) (#117)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:17:17 AM EST
    in the "presidential mode" en route to Minneapolis:

    "I am open to it" [VP] if it would help the party's prospects in November, Clinton replied, according to participants who spoke on condition of anonymity because the call was private.

    Clinton's comments raised anew the prospect of what many Democrats have called a "Dream Ticket" that would put a black man and a woman on the same ballot, but Obama's aides were noncommittal. "We're not in the presidential phase here. We're going to close out the nominating fight and then we'll consider that," David Axelrod, Obama's top strategist, told reporters aboard the candidate's plane en route to Minnesota.


    The Dem party (none / 0) (#134)
    by travc on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:14:20 AM EST
    Just gotta say, Hillary supporters are roughly 1/2 the Dem party.  It has been a rough last few months, but I'd love to see less alienation and activism.

    Want to fix the dumb primary system?  Want to elevate the discourse and put the media gasbags in their place?  Do it.  You are the party!

    There are a lot of Obama supporters who will be right there with you.

    typo edit (none / 0) (#135)
    by travc on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:17:24 AM EST
    oops.  Meant to say:

    "less alienation and more activism"

    I've gotten way too used to an 'edit' option... sigh


    Wonderful diary (none / 0) (#163)
    by stefystef on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:53:28 AM EST
    Thank you. s

    CNN Lost it last night- anyone else (none / 0) (#198)
    by kenosharick on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:10:38 AM EST
    Hear jeff toobin call the Clntons "deranged narcicists?" (spelling?) That was in the middle of the "panel" blasting her for not reaching out, saying it is all up to her. When toobin said that my head about exploded.

    Just found the 'stern letter' thread, (none / 0) (#210)
    by Molly Pitcher on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:24:23 AM EST
    and it is closed.  Also just found an invitation to send a message to Hillary.  Let's let the two presumptive candidates run their campaigns.  Hillary does not need to concede until votes are cast at roll call--If McCain can run as 'presumptive,' so can Obama.  I'll feel much better about the US of A with Hillary very definitely in the wings.

    Italian just voted back in Silvio Berlusconi (none / 0) (#235)
    by feet on earth on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:19:53 AM EST
    right wing, bad copy of Bush with a very shady past and present.  

    It will do you some good to look at that before looking over here.

    Perspective..... (none / 0) (#246)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:43:07 AM EST
    Compared to the US govt's actions at that time....Kent State, Vietnam, Cointelpro...the Weathermen look like choir boys.

    Violence against inncocents is never justified in my book....that being said, I'd rather a candidate be friendly with former Weathermen than former Nixon admin. officials.  

    a heads up about your first paragraph (none / 0) (#250)
    by MithrasJ on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:14:09 AM EST
    "In the last six months, more than 18 million voters pushed a lever or touched a screen in the privacy of a voting booth for Hillary Clinton. She's correct that more voters chose her (pdf) than any other candidate in the history of presidential primaries."

         Just to let you know, if you're going to claim "more than 18 million" votes for Hillary and link to that rcp page, you should know that the only line crediting Clinton with more than 18 million votes is also one of the lines that confirm an Obama victory in the overall popular vote(18,107,587 for Obama to 18,045,829 for Clinton).  Thus, your assertion that "more voters chose her...than any other candidate in the history of presidential primaries." is belied by the link you have provided to rcp claiming the 18 million number.  
         Also, as you have vigorously touted Clinton's claim to the popular vote lead as a pro-Clinton argument for the superdelegates, you should probably either refer to a different way of counting, than the one that provides for a claim to "more than 18 million" votes or cease claiming the Clinton won the popular vote.  I am not trying to rain on any parade or anything, just giving some advice.  Its really a moot point now since Obama has clinched the nomination, but I thought I'd point out the obvious contradiction in the two claims you make in that first paragraph.  Best wishes.

    Wow. (none / 0) (#252)
    by phatpay on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:07:43 PM EST
    I guess I shouldn't be shocked at how divided the Democratic party is... but I am.
    I haven't been frequenting TL all that much as of, well, a while.
    I sincerely hope that Hill takes the veep spot.
    It will make the Dems fantastically formidable and heal a lot of division.
    I am really incredulous that TL is so pro-Clinton.
    I'm more incredulous that McCain is the choice for Obama-haters.
    I'm even more incredulous that people are outraged about the state of American politics.
    The internet bravado will ebb when your staring down 4 more years of Republican international and fiscal policy.