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< Why Obama Won't Pick Hillary for VP | Hillary Clinton's Message On Endorsement of Obama >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Hola (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Lahdee on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:53:09 PM EST
    It's Wednesday and John McCain forgot it. Ate hamburger instead of soup.
    John, John, John, how will you ever remember which way to face in an in the round townhall?

    Torrential rain and thunder this afternoon (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:00:30 PM EST
    here in Washington. I wouldn't want to be driving home in that.

    And tonight: Top Chef!

    Yay! (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by chrisvee on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:30:05 PM EST
    I love Top Chef.  This season has been particularly good.

    [ Parent ]
    Antonia all the way (none / 0) (#9)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:07:21 PM EST
    Hera and Athena are  mad.

     Carolyn on the VP selection, what is all that about, I missed the earlier thread.  

    [ Parent ]

    C'mon. Antonia is blah. (none / 0) (#10)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:11:02 PM EST
    Richard is inventive and he has that awful fauxhawk!

    [ Parent ]
    Antonia cooks from her (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:23:48 PM EST
    heart, I know everything she cooks tastes good.  ( I love it when people argue about top chef, as if we can taste their food)

    Actually, I like Richard and I like Stephanie.  Don't like the carmel and scallops gal.  Wowzers.  

    [ Parent ]

    I just get tired (none / 0) (#20)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:28:05 PM EST
    of her "I cook this at home" spiel. Think of something new!

    [ Parent ]
    I keep wanting to taste that peanut butter (none / 0) (#70)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:22:46 AM EST
    mashed potatoes from last week. Have to look it up. AND Antonia is gone. Lisa is still there. Some of the people this year REALLY had temper tantrums. She is one of them. When she crossed those arms, she dares you to dislike her.

    [ Parent ]
    I am addicted to Top Chef (none / 0) (#204)
    by massdem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:27:22 AM EST
    But the caramel and scallop fiasco was created by Dale - unless you were refering to him when you said gal - then, nevermind.

    [ Parent ]
    I am addicted to Top Chef (none / 0) (#205)
    by massdem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:29:15 AM EST
    but the butterscotch and scallop fiasco was created by Dale - unless you were refering to him as a gal, then nevermind.

    [ Parent ]
    sorry (none / 0) (#206)
    by massdem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:30:12 AM EST
    for the double post - I'm new to how the "internets" work

    [ Parent ]
    I'm rooting for Stephanie. n/t (none / 0) (#19)
    by chrisvee on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:27:42 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    You and my wife. (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Artoo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:45:19 PM EST
    I'm rooting for anyone but Lisa. I could have a woman as Top Chef. Just not THAT woman. ;)

    Too soon?

    [ Parent ]

    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Palomino on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:07:37 AM EST
    Me too!

    Lisa is reflexively obnoxious--can't help herself. Loved Richard's retort: "So you won the bronze medal. Congratulations."

    I'm pulling for Stephanie, my fave, but will be very happy for Richard if he wins. As will Stephanie. Two great candidates! Why couldn't the two of them have contended for the Democratic presidential nomination?

    Lisa: packing her knives and going next week, along with somebody else, though it would have been gratifying if she had been asked to do so individually.

    [ Parent ]

    Spouse and I are watching (none / 0) (#15)
    by Rhouse on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:20:50 PM EST
    "So You Think You Can Dance". She used to belly dance for a living in college and loves dance of all kinds.  As for me, well I've always loved a good Broadway musical song and dance number, Gene Kelly anyone?  

    [ Parent ]
    Ha! This is my usual summer reality (none / 0) (#65)
    by Grace on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:20:52 AM EST
    show too!  I love watching the dancers try to dance in styles they aren't used to.  Last season was really entertaining, as was the season before that.  (Season One wasn't that interesting.)

    [ Parent ]
    Not if you live in the Washington suburbs (none / 0) (#69)
    by SueBonnetSue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:22:45 AM EST
    Most of us don't have power and many won't have it for days.  

    [ Parent ]
    Now just get the script (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:20:26 PM EST
    to automatically create a new post (:

     

    Hillary (5.00 / 8) (#7)
    by Polkan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:48:25 PM EST
    Yesterday Barack Obama secured the votes for the nomination.  

    One second later, the media keeps talking about Hillary. Needs time, wants to be VP, Bill won't pass "vetting", supers ordered her to quit, bargining chips, on and on.

    It dawned on me that they have nothing really to talk about when it comes to Obama, except for a brief nod to history-making nomination.

    Hating Hillary seems so much more pleasurable than loving Obama.

    Can someone tell me why?

    I think they're jealous. (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:18:27 PM EST
    Most of them don't have the guts to take a risk. They know they would never have survived what she did when Bill was prez. I don't know what they're gonna do if she drops out. They'll have to find someone new to hate on.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm starting to think (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Polkan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:26:18 PM EST
    that the real reason is more prosaic. I really think they would have nothing to talk about, frankly, and perhaps Hillary-hate is more of a stereo-type

    [ Parent ]
    and it is laziness too (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by bjorn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:31:30 PM EST
    pure and simple

    [ Parent ]
    I kinda think they're obsessed w/ her. (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:34:22 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    They could talk about this: Riverdaughter (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by itsadryheat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:51:17 AM EST
    has up an interesting set of figures.  If Fl and Mi had been restored as had been long promised by both Dean and Obama....until lately , then the pledged delegate count at the end of the Primary phase would have been Hillary 1725 and Obama 1707.  And, of course she would have the popular vote.  

    He would have only been ahead in the superdelegates, so she would have won both primary metrics and he would have the lead in the anticipated, but not yet cast convention vote.

     But then if people had known she had actually won the primary season they would have voted for her in the convention, right?

     Now we see just how inmportant the Saturday night massacre was. It was the nomination...unless we think that she could have won pledged AND popular and still had it take away from her by the Obama supporters among the leadership.  What a crock...

    [ Parent ]

    This number (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Lesser Dane on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:13:43 AM EST
    is apparently arrived at by seating Clinton's Florida delegates fully, while given the Obama delegates half votes. Otherwise, how would he be down 59 delegates in total?

    Add those delegates, and it becomes an even, though contrafactual, race.

    [ Parent ]

    the real liberal agenda (none / 0) (#25)
    by diogenes on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:33:52 PM EST
    Sam Nunn or other conservative Southern/Western folks would do as much or more as Hillary to bring in white blue collar folks.  Any number of potential VP's have more experience, especially in foreign policy.  Trouble is, they're conservative.

    [ Parent ]
    Nervous about the south? (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Salo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:53:36 PM EST
    Nothing can help Obama down thar

    [ Parent ]
    personally i don't think the veep really (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by hellothere on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:45:48 AM EST
    has that much influence. of course care in selection can be helpful. but it won't win any campaigns.

    as to the media, well they suck pure and simple. most of them don't have a clue what a real reporter does. we are better informed that they are so why should i watch them? my real dislike of them comes from their screwing up at least doing a minimal job at reading a telepromter and giving out information. the american public is poorly informed and thinks they are geez really are. today i had a discussion i have avoided with my sister regarding obama. she is in the tank. first i heard that no he didn't diss hillary with a bird. yes he did i responded. then she started in about michigan and florida. after i did a response with all the particulars about sc and the other states that jumped the gun with references to the floria legislature, etc. she backed away saying she was tired and couldn't really think to respond. of course i won the discussion and lost the war with her. she isn't going to change her mind due to the bull she has been fed. she thinks she is well informed but no she isn't. i want people to have the tools to be able to do critial thinking. color me disillusioned. to inform people seems to be the last the media wants to do. gee, then they wouldn't be able to so easily fool people then could they.

    [ Parent ]

    Sam Nunn (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:57:38 AM EST
    equals "change"?

    HAHAHAHAHAHA.

    [ Parent ]

    Many don't like Sam Nunn. (none / 0) (#29)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:36:10 PM EST
    Goes back to the nineties and Bill.

    [ Parent ]
    Rezko casting shadow on presidential race (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Josey on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:31:49 PM EST
    Chicago Tribune --
    http://tinyurl.com/69aafz

    It's obvious why the media is still in Hillary-hate mode.

    [ Parent ]

    OMG you are right!! (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by abfabdem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:19:38 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Because there's not much to love (5.00 / 4) (#64)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:20:43 AM EST
    About Obama?

    [ Parent ]
    The media loves his sermons (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by SueBonnetSue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:27:07 AM EST
    His sermons make their legs tingle.  They fell in love with Obama, and like anyone newly and deeply in love, they don't care about the reality of their chosen one.  They will just get angry at anyone who points out any flaw in their chosen love.  They will defend their choice, regardless.  Think of teenagers in love.  Apply that to the media's love of Obama.  Same thing.  

    [ Parent ]
    Just read this comment over (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by samanthasmom on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:57:45 PM EST
    at the Confluence

    Hmmm, now we know why the RBC did what the did. She had over 100 delegates from Florida and 73 from Michigan. If he got zero from Michigan and both states had been able to seat with full strength, she could have added over 86 delegates and he would have lost 59. Hmm, that brings her total to 1725 and Obama's to 1707.

    If they had given Obama his MI delegates as "uncommitted" he would have had to wait until the convention to collect them.

    Does this make sense?

    And, let's NEVER forget that the primary (5.00 / 6) (#34)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:44:53 PM EST
    Concern in this was making sure that nothing was done to make Obama supporters feel that Hillary STOLE the nominaton from him.

    So, just keep your perspective. We need to be grateful that Obama has not had his historic nomination compromised.

    PUMA.


    [ Parent ]

    It reminds me too much of the Supreme Court (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by abfabdem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:22:06 AM EST
    deciding the way they did in 2000 because they were concerned with how it would look for Bush--I don't remember the exact wording.

    [ Parent ]
    I do (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by Palomino on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:12:21 AM EST
    The Supremes claimed that continuing to count the votes in Florida would be "casting a cloud upon what he [Bush] claims to be the legitimacy of his election." Now, where have we seen something like that lately?

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, it makes sense: We wuz robbed (5.00 / 13) (#46)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:20:45 PM EST
    by a corrupt party, and that always makes sense to those who benefit from corruption.  And if they get their way, we will have a corrupt president.

    And that will be "change" from the current administration because. . . ?

    They will have to get to the White House with my help.  I was outraged by Watergate, I was outraged by Election 2000, and much more -- but nothing, nothing approached my outrage Saturday . . . and again tonight.

    I am done being a good girl about it.  This is war.  And the Dem party is now my enemy.

    [ Parent ]

    House of Dem still has good timber, siding (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:23:27 AM EST
    But the insiders have mistaken my presence and genuine efforts to maintain it for domestic service.

    They can clean up after themselves. I've propped up the Dems long enough.

    I'll be watching the flameout as an Independent.

    Sen Clinton should be the Dem nominee for President were it not for the political ambitions of perma-losers like Donna Brazile hitching their millstones to Obama.

    The way I see it, they have nothing to impel them forward in Obama, nor voters such as myself -- 1 of 18million -- to push them forward.

    Let's see what happens when that train doesn't even leave the station.

    [ Parent ]

    I truly believe (5.00 / 5) (#84)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:31:44 AM EST
    that Pelosi et al. believe that the only thing standing in the way of unity is that the SBWQ.  I believe she doesn't realize that the only thing keeping Hillary supporters from completely going ballistic is that Hillary hasn't conceded yet.

    Ex-Democrats have already started forming PAC's just waiting to go.  It may be that the 527 damage won't all come from the right...

    [ Parent ]

    Sorta (none / 0) (#62)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:19:56 AM EST
    I mean, the media had no problem crediting him with superdelegate endorsements, even though those don't become "official" until the convention.  So provided everyone understands the "uncommitted" delegates actually support Obama, which is pretty much how the MI Democratic Party arranged things, I don't see why the media couldn't have counted them in Obama's column.

    I mean, the 55 uncommitted delegates are real human beings.  There's no reason a reporter couldn't have called them up, confirmed that they all intend to vote for Obama, and counted them just like they count superdelegates.

    [ Parent ]

    Be afraid ... be VERY afraid (none / 0) (#106)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:54:09 AM EST
    I imagine a considerable number, and downticket Dems, are afraid of what being on the business end of X-million of the 18 million voters who support Sen Clinton will feel like.

    The tangible ouch-factor is likely far greater than being crushed, say, under a rhetorical Brazile mama.

    [ Parent ]

    That calculations forgets (none / 0) (#74)
    by Lesser Dane on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:24:10 AM EST
    to double Obama's Florida delegates (while understating Clinton's gain). He would lose 27.5, she would gain 91, if my math is correct. 1730 vs 1738.5 if your delegate totals are correct.

    [ Parent ]
    As noted elsewhere (none / 0) (#163)
    by Lesser Dane on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:15:43 AM EST
    this is arrived at by seating Clinton's delegates fully, but giving Obama's delegates half votes.

    And repeated ad infinitum by people who do not care to do the math.

    [ Parent ]

    oops (none / 0) (#166)
    by Lesser Dane on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:20:50 AM EST
    Sorry for rebutting the same comment twice. Still getting used to the comment system here ...

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary won the Primary Season and is the (none / 0) (#164)
    by itsadryheat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:16:55 AM EST
    leader to be the nominee, unless "supers take it away from the will of the people". Where did we hear that before?  The committee made up of Hillary supporters, obama supporters and "undeclared who all voted for Obama and were never undeclared to start with".

     Hillary supporters could have called a quorum among themselves and held a meeting and voted, it they had the character of the others.

    Now the supers are being harrassed by Dean and Pelosi and Reid.  Dean holds power over DNC supers' jobs and the others control committee assignments, floor votes, amendments, calendar and other stuff that make or break a congresscritter's career.  Don't I recall that that is illegal...people in power over other people's jobs coercing and "sternly strongly unrging" people under their power to give up some right or protection, telling them a vote to be taken in SECRET in 80 days must be decided, publicly revealed now and it better not be a "disappointing" vote.  Pelosi who first said she would vote California's choice.  Then it was the winner of the pledged delegates.  Then it was the winner of the RBC theft. And then, before any complaint could rise, any numbers could be understooda and talked about, the rest had to vote to make it look legit, and quick.

    Democrats used to be proud of the values and the legislation fought for and won to protect workers in the workplace form improper coersion from people holding power over their jobs.

      What the hell has happened to us.  They should have never dreamed they could get away with that nor dared suggest it behind closed doors.  They shouted it in the media that they were engaged in workplace harrassment as defined in our own laws as  a crime.


    [ Parent ]

    Richardson is on CNN with Larry (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by bjorn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:13:20 PM EST
    He still makes me sick.  

    So, don't watch (none / 0) (#24)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:32:25 PM EST
    You want Larry King to get ratings for his slimey network? They will never change their reporting if we keep them rich off whatever they want to do.


    [ Parent ]
    You know (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:21:30 AM EST
    Unless your household happens to be tracking its viewing for Nielsen, no one actually knows what channel you're watching.  You're not making CNN any money.

    [ Parent ]
    If you have Comcast DVR (none / 0) (#85)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:34:50 AM EST
    yes, they can and do track you.

    [ Parent ]
    You under estimate those little black cable boxes (none / 0) (#116)
    by ChuckieTomato on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:07:44 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Larry King (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:23:36 AM EST
    amuses me because he gets upset at the babbling talking heads and yells at them to be quiet.
    Fish, plankton, sea greens and protein from the sea.
    [ Parent ]
    I did switch (none / 0) (#28)
    by bjorn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:35:13 PM EST
    I could not listen to him try to persuade Larry he was not lobbying for the VP position

    [ Parent ]
    I hope Richardson (5.00 / 3) (#124)
    by Palomino on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:15:13 AM EST
    is Obama's VP. But I'm not the nicest person in the world.

    [ Parent ]
    Even I'm hoping the same. (5.00 / 2) (#173)
    by Serene1 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:38:03 AM EST
    Poor Richardson went out on a limb to trash Hillary and her husband all in the hope that he would be made the Veep. Its time Obama delivers somebody's hope.

    [ Parent ]
    Good call (none / 0) (#31)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:39:08 PM EST
    :) I've lost my ability to stomach numerous politicians this primary cycle.

    I find I'm a much happier person all around when I don't watch those idiotic, empty of facts, blood pressure raising pundits.

    Next, I'll be cutting my cable.


    [ Parent ]

    Obama's VP? (none / 0) (#80)
    by SueBonnetSue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:29:27 AM EST
    Is that why Richardson is on Larry King?  

    [ Parent ]
    Has anyone seen a list of the super-d's (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:14:10 PM EST
    that came out for him to put him over the top? Supposedly the AP had to talk to them by phone and they wouldn't come out publicly. The AP was pretty bad with their fake stories yesterday so I'm wondering if there is any back-up.

    Hmmm (none / 0) (#27)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:34:31 PM EST
    I didn't hear many names announced, and didn't actually even hear how many were supers vs. what he got from SD and MT.

    Rahm Emmanuel announced for him this morning, though.


    [ Parent ]

    I heart Rahm called Hillary first. (none / 0) (#44)
    by zfran on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:26:33 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Did ya'll see that McCain mentioned (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:25:42 PM EST
    debating with Obama and the assasination of JFK in the same paragraph and nobody said a word about it? Nothing, no outrage, just crickets. Go figure.

    How do those two topics (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:36:19 PM EST
    find a way into the same paragraph?

    Did you also hear that Obama said he wanted the same debate format as he had with Hillary?! Heh, he needs to be able to fall back on that "what s/he said" argument he's so good at...especially since it worked!!

    [ Parent ]

    Does Obama want the same pillow (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:22:21 PM EST
    too?  Won't he be surprised when he finds out that's over, all over now.  Media love McCain.

    [ Parent ]
    Media loves McCain? (none / 0) (#82)
    by SueBonnetSue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:30:47 AM EST
    Not nearly as much as they love Obama.  

    [ Parent ]
    that ended last nite (none / 0) (#95)
    by doberman pinche on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:43:29 AM EST
    this is a whole new game which will be very painful to watch.

    [ Parent ]
    Nope, they're in love (none / 0) (#128)
    by SueBonnetSue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:20:13 AM EST
    The NY Times, the WaPo, Chris Matthews, Olberman, will remain in love with Obama.  They chose him, they're in love with him and desperately want to see him in the White House.  

    [ Parent ]
    They enjoyed bashing Clinton more -- (none / 0) (#137)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:33:01 AM EST
    Wait until they have to affirmatively defend Obama's actual record and merit and swab up whatever Michelle Obama lets loose on the campaign.

    The real muck hasn't even hit the airwaves at full speed yet. Hillary didn't MAKE Obama go to Wright's congregation or jump in with Rezko.

    Obama's stuff's not going away. It's only been mined to go off whenever the same dirtbags that have been using BO's Media BFFs for decades.

    [ Parent ]

    You mean Obama will now agree to debate? (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by abfabdem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:24:23 AM EST
    Snark.

    [ Parent ]
    He was saying that JFK and Goldwater(?) (none / 0) (#33)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:42:21 PM EST
    had agreed to debate in a certain format in 1964 before JFK was assasinated in 1963. He was talking about he and Obama debating this summer.

    [ Parent ]
    Ahhh.... (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:49:05 PM EST
    and, you're right. The media really missed their opportunity 'cause that was just as full of meat as what Hillary said in her RFK comment.

    Oh, wait, Hillary had said the same thing months earlier, but they didn't need it until last week. You can expect the video of McCain's comment to surface on October 29th.


    [ Parent ]

    Yes! The October surprise! (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:59:19 PM EST
    And the Repubs will say "This is it? That's all you got? Pfft."

    [ Parent ]
    I heard that Obama wanted (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Grace on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:43:25 AM EST
    something more like the historic Lincoln-Douglas debates.  I have to assume they were more like speeches since Karl Rove said that that particular format favored Obama's "style."  

    Did Lincoln or Douglas have a teleprompter?  

    I love that McCain keeps making these suggestions though.  Today he said that he and Obama should fly on the same plane - so they would create a smaller carbon footprint.  Ha!  

    [ Parent ]

    That is the (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:46:12 AM EST
    debate Hillary challenged him with and he refused. It will give him more time to recycle his pre-written speeches against McCain.
    Fish, plankton, sea greens and protein from the sea.
    [ Parent ]
    Obama had better be very careful following (none / 0) (#185)
    by DeborahNC on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:14:08 AM EST
    McCain's lead. He could depend on Hillary's facts to be accurate, but if he falls in line with McCain's "facts," he's entering precarious territory.

    Wonder if the media would even report it if Obama quoted McCain's inaccurate information. They're so in love with both of them, they'd probably would let it slide.

    [ Parent ]

    How could that be a coincidence? I think he referenced the JFK assassination for the express purpose of calling Axelrod's and Obama's bluff.

    It was a taunt. McCain is signaling, loud and clear, "Don't f*ck with me fellas!". And they didn't dare, did they. Nor will they come November. They have a lot less ammo now that the liberal-guilt dog won't hunt.

    [ Parent ]

    McCain will be able to do (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Grace on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:57:05 AM EST
    a lot of things Hillary couldn't do since she and Obama were on the same team.  

    McCain probably won't have to defend all the "you're a racist" stuff either since I don't think Republicans care about that stuff and the disenchanted Democrats and Indies have already been called that.  

    It's going to be fun to see how the Obama team can deflect any of this.  So far, it seems they are limited to telling John "No" whenever he proposes something.  Heh.  

    [ Parent ]

    I will do one positive political (5.00 / 10) (#21)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:30:05 PM EST
    thing each week, so that I do not become bitter and clingy.  
    Today I increased my Emily's list donation and sought information from the Green Party to work at the local level.  

    Nader's party? (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:58:43 PM EST
    At least this time, Nader will be right. It isn't his fault if the democrats picked a candidate who couldn't give them a win.

    [ Parent ]
    Funny, this may be Nadar's (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by zfran on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:23:56 PM EST
    year. HA wouldn't that be funny!!

    [ Parent ]
    he's got a cool (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:09:06 PM EST
    running mate, a former public defender who really is liberal and a proven winner with those who want "change." But I'm not a third party person and I'm not a Nader fan.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm not a third party fan... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Alec82 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:09:40 AM EST
    ...(purely for practical reasons) and I don't particularly like Nader's refusal to see the stark contrasts between the parties on issues, but he spoke at my law school and he was very good.  

    [ Parent ]
    nadir (none / 0) (#192)
    by weltec2 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:37:35 AM EST
    Nader stole votes from Gore. THAT I will not forgive him for.

    [ Parent ]
    matt gonzales (none / 0) (#93)
    by boredmpa on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:42:45 AM EST
    i hope we hear more from him, or folks like em

    [ Parent ]
    please join me in the newly (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by doberman pinche on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:25:31 AM EST
    resurrected "Women's Party" as soon as I figure out how to resurrect it.


    [ Parent ]
    women's party (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by noholib on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:47:41 AM EST
    Despite all the sadness and bitterness felt right now, I certainly don't want the Republicans to continue to run this country, so I wouldn't consider voting for Republican-nominee Senator McCain at all. But yes, I would love to figure out a way to get the energy and passion of women translated into a new political force. Whatever happens in November, there is a lot of destructive rampant sexism and misogyny to fight.  Maybe we can do it better in the future now that Senator Clinton is said to have developed a deeper understanding of these issues through this campaign.  I just read on another thread that one of the NBC knuckleheads Brian Williams brought up the issue of emasculation tonight!!  Rousseau voiced the fear perfectly in the mid-18th century: the fear that if women entered public life, then men would be un-manned.  We've not come a long way, have we baby?

    [ Parent ]
    I admire your generosity (5.00 / 4) (#90)
    by Jane in CA on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:38:41 AM EST
    but I will never donate to Emily's List again.  

    I don't want a single cent of mine to go to the Claire MaCaskills and Nancy Pelosis of this country.

    I'm clinging to my money out of bitterness, you see.

    [ Parent ]

    heh (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by boredmpa on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:46:45 AM EST
    i enjoyed being one of the 7200 voting for shirley golub instead of more pelositis.  A horrible congressional condition, pelositis.

    [ Parent ]
    Domestic violence and the Sheltering Movement (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:14:47 AM EST
    I read a great report last summer about the impact of sheltering on domestic violence.

    Activists just got tired of law enforcement's do-nothing stance: boys will be boys and, in cases involving same-sex partners, usually M/M, the "CW" that it was always part of some pathology.

    So they -- we, since I've always been activist in sheltering -- just did it ourselves.

    Both the law enforcement aspect of protecting women and laying charges independently of the victim "officially" insisting on it, and the legal aspect of prosecuting changed significantly.

    Back in the day I was also part of a community movement to make the police go public with news of assaults like rape and anti LGBT violence, and their own intimidation of minority communities, eg, treating every black guy walking down the street as a potential drug dealer, or driving alone for [whatever crime happened in the hemisphere].

    The assaults often got suppressed in the news because police Cowboys wanted to nab individual serial offenders and used neighborhoods as unknowing bait.

    We used permanent paint to stencil the time and nature of the assault on the pavement or wall where it occured, to alert the neighborhood, and sent press releases to media.

    Police Dept's official reaction: WE were scaring the rabble. Heh.

    Grass roots is always what makes a movement. "Brand" stuff like smoke and mirrors Obama stuff is intentionally designed to steal people's proxy.

    Don't give yours to unworthy leaders, and always always always do your bit for the community.

    [ Parent ]

    Did you join the (none / 0) (#88)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:37:17 AM EST
    Have you been to Hillary's blog (none / 0) (#120)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:10:30 AM EST
    to read the latest from her supporters?

    [ Parent ]
    I haven't (none / 0) (#138)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:34:29 AM EST
    whats the tone?
    Fish, plankton, sea greens and protein from the sea.
    [ Parent ]
    Just doing a quick glance (none / 0) (#141)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:39:02 AM EST
    seems like many are firmly behind her. One comment had a list of all the states and voter requirements for write ins . . . .

    I have to wonder if Obama will even have her stump for him. I don't know how much of the ones with their heels dug in that will turn . . .

    [ Parent ]

    It will (none / 0) (#147)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:48:26 AM EST
    depend on what she does I think. She has several factions that will do different things depending on her. If she conceeds I believe any stumping by her will be for naught for a portion of them.
    Fish, plankton, sea greens and protein from the sea.
    [ Parent ]
    I was just listening to Richardson on LK (none / 0) (#161)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:13:53 AM EST
    He's a whiny a**, I sure hope they just let her get on with her life. Bill also. The two of them will get more done for people here and everywhere before some of these other fools get their acts together.

    [ Parent ]
    Gawd I so agree (none / 0) (#165)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:20:00 AM EST
    I really can't abide Richardson. I can't imagine having to listen to him on a regular basis. Every since I saw him on the LGBT forum I wanted nothing more then for him to go away.  And yes. Both Bill and Hillary have better things to do then worry about Obama. They will anyway. I guess that's why we love them.
    Fish, plankton, sea greens and protein from the sea.
    [ Parent ]
    I didn't see that forum, but he's opened his (none / 0) (#169)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:33:49 AM EST
    mouth enough lately that I just want him to go away. He's not helping the party at all with his comments. He's, ahem, being extremely divisive!

    I'm sure Bill will be happy to get back to his Foundation, and Hillary will be re-energized in the Senate. I have a feeling she's going to kick some behind there. I learned of some things recently that she was working on in the senate (less antibiotics in beef cattle etc) that I'm very interested in, so she will be getting some more emails (at her senate addy) on some of these from me. Heh, I may have my Senator back!

    [ Parent ]

    Her letter tonight (none / 0) (#172)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:37:56 AM EST
    sounded like she was conceeding. (Not just suspending for later). That really really bothers me. I guess that is her choice of course, but it disappoints me.
    Fish, plankton, sea greens and protein from the sea.
    [ Parent ]
    I'm confused on that (none / 0) (#178)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:00:28 AM EST
    The talking heads (that I've heard) are very specific it's suspend. I'll admit, I'll be gutted if she concedes. Candy C said she (Hillary) was very concerned about the history of it. If she hangs on to the delegates and gets a mention on the floor of the convention, it would be good for all that were invested in this. Young and old, for history and the future young ones coming up. That makes sense to me. And then there's the added benefit of her being in place in case of an Obamanation ;)

    I wasn't sure with her email. I do think she is correct in how she's handling it though. She is giving us process time. I will hope that she hangs in and just suspends though. Even if it is just for history and all the young women coming up in the future.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm pretty sure she's just going to suspend (none / 0) (#182)
    by Grace on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:09:17 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Well that settles it! (none / 0) (#183)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:09:52 AM EST
    I am going to go write a nasty email to Donna Brazile (just because it will make me feel better) and head to bed. I just can't stand it. Lol.
    Fish, plankton, sea greens and protein from the sea.
    [ Parent ]
    i wonder if there will be an influx (none / 0) (#170)
    by boredmpa on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:36:30 AM EST
    of more people into the greens in SF?

    [ Parent ]
    How is that new script working? (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:39:19 PM EST
    You mentioned stops at 200 but the top thread is not over 260 comments and still open.

    it's not working (none / 0) (#51)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:09:38 PM EST
    Colin is trying to figure out why.

    [ Parent ]
    I think it was working earlier. (none / 0) (#198)
    by andrys on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:16:22 AM EST
    I opened up a box and was writing away and then I made sure my 5 paragraphs had working links and no horrendous errors, this time, and clicked on 'post' and it wouldn't go through.

     I checked and found that while I was writing, the forum had closed for posting.

     In the past, it let those of us who had opened up a box to write, finish, and post instead of such not-good surprise.

     Just a wee complaint.  Couldn't it let ongoing work be posted?  As before?

    [ Parent ]

    Has Donna Brazille quit? (5.00 / 11) (#35)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:47:46 PM EST
    She said she would if the Super-D's decided the nomination. They did and she should make good on her promise.

    HAHA (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:51:50 PM EST
    She better.

    Then, she also warned us several times that if Obama didn't get the nomination, "there will be blood". I wonder if the riot planning web sites are being taken down now.

    [ Parent ]

    There will be blood. But it will be ours (5.00 / 8) (#48)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:23:36 PM EST
    because Brazile has sucked all the life out of the Dem party.  It is dead to me.

    [ Parent ]
    It's not just Donna Brazile (none / 0) (#196)
    by weltec2 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:04:23 AM EST
    of course, but I wonder if she has any idea how much damage she has done to the party. I've never been so tempted to leave the party in my life.

    [ Parent ]
    I'll spend the remainder of the campaign season (5.00 / 4) (#92)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:42:28 AM EST
    • supporting Sen Clinton in any endeavor she chooses,
    • not assisting Obama in any way other than to wish him and his "multitudes" (that won't show, IMO) good freakin' luck
    • and hurling darts at Donna Brazile whenever and wherever possible for sport.

    I don't care if she tosses a whole Mama at me, even a Mama and a Half. I know how to duck.

    [ Parent ]
    i got your mama and am tossing-snark (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by hellothere on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:51:23 AM EST
    to grand dads and an uncle back at ya ms brazile.

    [ Parent ]
    Superdels did not decide, they ratified. (1.00 / 1) (#119)
    by pod2 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:10:24 AM EST
    I have to point out that Obama won the majority of pledged delegates well before he won the majority of total delegates.  In other words, Obama did not need the superdels to win the nomination, he just needed them to stand aside and not overrule his lead in pledged delegates.  

    [ Parent ]
    You really don't know the rules (5.00 / 3) (#142)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:39:11 AM EST
    that even Brazile cannot change about what it takes to win the nomination, do you?  Look them up and then come on back to really contribute here.

    [ Parent ]
    Changing the rules... (5.00 / 11) (#41)
    by OrangeFur on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:11:52 PM EST
    A month or so ago, Chris Bowers of OpenLeft predicted that Clinton couldn't win the popular vote, if you give Obama about 173,000 uncommitted MI votes, consistent with exit polls. He used a principled approach that included MI and caucus estimates.

    Of course, Clinton beat all expectations.

    On Monday, Bowers predicted that Clinton still couldn't win the popular vote, since according to his numbers, she was only 20,000 votes ahead by the same metric he had previously used, and Obama was favored in both MT and SD. I give him points for using a consistent metric.

    SD had different ideas. Obama only gained 17,000 votes yesterday.

    So what does Bowers say today? Obama won the popular vote! How? Apparently Bowers decided to enhance his metric by adding in a vague number of Michigan write-in votes for Obama.

    Would I be too cynical if I thought that he fudged the rules at the end to get the outcome he wanted?

    Is he a member of the DNC? (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by Grace on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:54:30 AM EST
    He probably learned math from them.  Seriously.  I think they've taken "inventive math" to a whole new level.  

    On a different note -- does this whole thing of "delegate math/vote math" vaguely remind anyone of playing a game with a child under age 6?  Little kids always win at games with adults because they get to make up the rules as they go along and the rules always make them the winner!  

    I'll betcha Little Barack beat his grannie at cards a gazillion times when he was a kid...  ;)

    [ Parent ]

    I read an Obama bio (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by zyx on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:14:17 PM EST
    by David Mendell, "Obama: from Promise to Power".  Mendell is a Chicago Trib reporter and covered Obama for quite some time, and I read somewhere that this is the "only serious biography about Obama".  Got it from the library and could hardly put it down.  Not a puff piece, and not a hit piece, either.

    I'd like to discuss it with some folks, like a Wednesday brown-bag lunch book talk...has anyone else read it?

    Haven't read it.... (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Alec82 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:14:57 AM EST
    ...but I am curious.  What did you find interesting?

    [ Parent ]
    Saw it in the bookstore on Monday . . . (none / 0) (#131)
    by Palomino on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:24:28 AM EST
    and riffled through it but put it down because it read to me like . . . a puff piece, for the most part. I don't say this lightly, or out of pure snark. I've been a book editor for 30 years, have approved and turned down thousands of proposals, have shepherded thousands of manuscripts through to publication, know how to speed read and what to speed read for, and think I know puff when I see it. But maybe I'm mistaken this time.

    [ Parent ]
    Forty years ago tonight (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:32:12 PM EST
    Today is the 40th anniversary of that horrible night in LA when Bobby Kennedy was shot. I know many of us are still furious about that nonsense last week, but let's not let that keep us from remembering a great American who was killed while he was campaigning for many of the same liberal ideas and values we still fight for today.

    the bbc can be rather comical when discussing US (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by boredmpa on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:11:33 AM EST
    For millions of Americans, who have not read his book, who do not read the New York Times and who do not follow politics obsessively on the cable TV networks, he is a blank canvas, which his opponents can paint on.

    ohhh how many ways to laugh at that statement...

    But I have read Nytimes and that paper (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by Serene1 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:28:07 AM EST
    was in a way responsible for cementing my opposition to Obama. Initially when Nytimes was still objective they had come out with a detailed report on axelrod in