home

My Take On the Night

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:15:31 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

One of the things that has been made clear tonight is that Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton will not go quietly into that good night. And in one sense, there is no reason to.

What will happen to them? The Media will blast them? NBC will be mean to her? As opposed to what they did before? Obama won't like her? And he was nice to her before? The Left blogs will spew vitriol at them? Um, and?

More . .

Comments closed

I'll be honest, my own preference, as a Democrat hoping for a unified party, would have had her be more conciliatory. And perhaps she will be in the next few days. But there is something that a lot of these folks need to understand - Hillary Clinton does not need you anymore. She is not going to be the nominee, imo. She does not need their goodwill which they never offered in the first place. Hillary can be Senator for Life if she wants. Or anything else, except President or perhaps Vice President in 2009.

Hillary will endorse Obama and campaign for him in the Fall. But as she made clear tonight. It will be on her own terms. Not anyone else's. And it is time for the Democratic Party and Barack Obama to deal with that reality. He is the presumptive nominee. It is his job now.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

< Obama's Speech | More On Tonight's Events >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    My Take On the Night | 208 comments (208 topical)
    The (5.00 / 26) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:20:25 PM EST
    reality is that I don't think Obama can unify the party with the way he has run his primary campaign. He ran a campaign, not based on issues but based on personality. It's also the reason I'm pretty sure that he'll lose in Nov. It'll be pretty easy for the GOP to define him negatively with his baggage.

    Feh, I'm glad that I've already accepted the fact that McCain is likely to be the next President. It makes things a lot easier.

    And (5.00 / 31) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:26:17 PM EST
    Oh, don't you think it's kind of sad that our "presumptive nominee" is now a gasping for breath and broken backed unity pony who had to be pushed over the finish line on a stretcher?

    I thought we all wanted fighting Dems? I guess that is another belief that has been proven to be a joke. Kind of like we used to believe in counting all the votes.

    If ever a party deserved to lose in Nov. it is us.

    Parent

    Sad but true (5.00 / 7) (#60)
    by SueBonnetSue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:37:00 PM EST


    Parent
    WE do not deserve (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by mg7505 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:50 PM EST
    to lose. SOME folks in this party deserve it. I'm not talking about the average voter; there are certain bloviators, news networks, party leaders...

    My secret fantasy is that Al Gore will declare his support for HRC tomorrow and settle this whole mess.

    Does anyone know if the Republicans are having Romney/Huckabee/McCain unity problems? Not that it makes our job any easier this fall.

    Parent

    McCain/ Romney/Huckabee (3.00 / 2) (#200)
    by cal1942 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:22:56 PM EST
    Doesn't matter if they hate each other.  They won't let it leak out.  Party operatives and high office holders won't go on television taking a whack at one another.

    They'll just line up, from the rank and file to the top.

    Parent

    Agree with both your comments. (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by alexei on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:03:28 PM EST
    Democratic lemmings all.

    Parent
    The presumptive nominee (5.00 / 10) (#49)
    by RalphB on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:34:34 PM EST
    does seem quite a let down.  Sounded like he'd been taking speech lessons from Wexler with the yelling.

    It did sound better than McCain though.  But when I called an old friend a bit ago, he liked McCain better.  He talked about his record and some issues while Obama just hopey changy repeated a lot of his old talking points.  Oh well.

    Parent

    Obama made a turn toward the issues tonight (2.33 / 3) (#11)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:24:26 PM EST
    I was personally impressed by his speech, and I actually felt that it stood very well side by side with Hillary's. (Not so much McCain's--his was embarrassingly bad).

    Parent
    His speech (5.00 / 9) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:28:15 PM EST
    was too vague for me. He sounded like Kerry. I didn't see McCain's so I can't comment on that.

    Parent
    It was not as vague as normal (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:30:31 PM EST
    And frankly, I think Kerry could probably win this year.

    Parent
    People (5.00 / 14) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:34:39 PM EST
    keep saying that but the Democratic congress has approval ratings that are even worse than Bush's. I've heard this argument time and again but it doesn't pan out because we usually nominate bad candidates that working class voters don't like. What's different about this year? Are working class voters going to show up and vote for a candidate that calls them "bitter".

    You have to realize that we have been winning on the all the generic issues for several cycles now and it still hasn't produced a winner. All those numbers were good for us in 2004 and Kerry couldn't pull it out. In the end, voters are going to vote for the candidate not the party. And the way Obama has run his primary campaign is fatal to his general election chances.

    Parent

    this is normal (none / 0) (#130)
    by manish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:02:17 PM EST
    but the Democratic congress has approval ratings that are even worse than Bush's

    This is actually the norm (i.e. that Congress has lower approval ratings than the President)..people hate the Congress, but like their representative.  It happens at the state and local levels as well.

    Parent

    However, 18% isn't normal (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:13:21 PM EST
    and Bushes ratings are incredibly low.

    Fact is, I've never seen Congressional ratings so low (although maybe there've been lower).

    Parent

    Oooh, you uttered (5.00 / 7) (#56)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:36:32 PM EST
    some famous last words.

    I remember in 2000, I thought, PHEW, Bush won the nomination over McCain, there's no way that doofus will beat Gore!

    Ooops.

    Parent

    I Thought Kerry Couldn't Lose in 2004 (5.00 / 10) (#91)
    by BDB on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:43:25 PM EST
    even though I personally wasn't crazy about him.  Bush couldn't even win in 2000 without cheating, how could he lose in 2004 when the country was a disaster?

    After seeing Saturday's clusterfrak and the venality and idiocy of so many running the party, I can't believe Democrats ever win an election of any kind.  I used to think the GOP were great at winning elections, but now that I've seen the DNC brain trust in action, I can't believe they don't win 95% of the time.

    I think Obama might not lose (although he might, which is shocking given how little enthusiasm there is for McCain).  The country's mood is such that it's going to be a huge democratic year and that might be enough to carry him across the finish line.  But even then he isn't going to win so much as the GOP loses and there will be no huge realignment.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he underperforms the Democrat's Congressional slate.  And that will be a loss, maybe not of the White House, but of a huge opportunity.

    Parent

    I'm convinced (5.00 / 8) (#129)
    by Grace on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:01:06 PM EST
    the Dem Party deliberately nominates losers.  

    Every poll, all the states won, all the votes, etc., everything except the Super Delegates says that Hillary Clinton should be our nominee -- and yet they want to nominate Obama.  

    Yes, Obama would be a historic candidate.  He'll be an equally historic candidate when he loses.  

    Parent

    It's more convincing if you use land area. (5.00 / 4) (#168)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:16:09 PM EST
    .. just trying to help.

    Parent
    Right right, she just won more votes (5.00 / 6) (#169)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:16:32 PM EST
    While he won more empty land in non critical states.

    He leads in rocks!!!

    Parent

    Yeah. (5.00 / 5) (#171)
    by Jackson Hunter on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:16:44 PM EST
    Look at his map, it is almost identical to Bush's.  Good luck campaigning in Idaho and all of the other states he'll lose by 15 pts. that he won in the primary.  Good night and good luck with that.

    Jackson

    Parent

    Go away. (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by miriam on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:18:03 PM EST


    Parent
    He won the caucuses (5.00 / 4) (#237)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:32:58 PM EST
    The delegate allocation to the caucuses is how she lost. Look at South Dakota's results and the neighboring states that had caucuses. There is a major disparity between caucuses and primaries.

    Then there is the Texas oddball primary/caucus which Hillary won by 100,000 and lost the delegate count.

    Here

    It's difficult to see how Hillary lost considering she won, Florida, Michigan, California, New Jersey, Texas, Penn., Ohio.

    It's the caucuses.

    Parent

    He beat her in nearly 2/3 rds of all contests... (5.00 / 4) (#246)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:45:45 PM EST
    Yes, in open primaries or caucusses!, and in states that are republican bastions, where even the most appealing, strong democratic candidates were not able to 'crack that nut', with the exception of BILL CLINTON OF COURSE, so go figure!

    Yes, and with the backing of the DNC, availed himself of votes won by Senator Clinton. Until Saturday, I never knew that his second middle name was UNCOMMITTED to have gotten all those votes too.

    Yes, with MI delegates recognized, but ironically, the popular vote does not figure into the equation, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

    VERRY DEMOCRATIC INDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED.
     

    Parent

    Correction: Obama had the most money (5.00 / 1) (#252)
    by thereyougo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:50:06 AM EST
    from the little people, remember that?

    The little people were sending their chump change to add into the gazillions he raised...

    yeeeeeah riiiiight!  Can we say Oprah money?  Bundling its way into his coffers.

    About all Hillary had was name rec.

    Give him cred that he put together a team that went from state to state to muscle their way through the caucus states. They fought for his caucus votes with charm, 'sweetie' and unity 'words'.

    Maybe they were just hired hands and didn't even believe in his change meme but they were on a mission vs. reg folks who thought we're all democrats and wouldn't wrong fellow democrats, but they did considering all the complaints of low ball tactics by Obama's people.

    They seemed like Rovian tactics, win at all costs. ergh..

    Hell, we saw Obama throw 2 of his pastors under the unity bus, lest they sunder his hopes of being the first AA prez, he wants it so bad. And he wants it for him, its all about him.

    It calls to question his moral compass.

    What is disturbing is this is the  way of campaigns hence I see no future for democracy -- Big on bucks and low on substance.

    Obama outspent Hillary 3:1 in Ohio and Penna and couldn't bury her, so repeating shallow truths doesn't speak much for candidate Obama, because he won't have that luxury in the  GE -- should he get there.

    Parent

    Um.... Some facts.... (1.00 / 3) (#245)
    by EddieInCA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:44:59 PM EST
    Hillary has been behind in pledged delegates since Iowa. She NEVER held the lead in pledged delegates.  

    She started with a 100-0 Super Delegate lead. Since then he has beat her 392-188 in Super Delegates.

    People on this site keep thinking that somehow this is going to magically turn.  What do people think is going to happen?

    Do you think that if Senator Clinton didn't have something to use on Obama, that they'd have used it?

    Do you honestly think that Senator Obama and Senator Clinton were holding back ANYTHING they could have used in this primary?

    I don't think so. But reasonable minds may differ.

    Parent

    Even Kerry (5.00 / 4) (#66)
    by SueBonnetSue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:38:29 PM EST
    Or any other known democrat.  Our party, the leaders and SD, and the media, have cost us the White House.  I hope they're happy.  

    Parent
    "it was not as vague as normal" is not (5.00 / 11) (#79)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:40:16 PM EST
    exactly a ringing endorsement.  obama's speech was written based on what he THOUGHT Hillary would do...she pulled the rug right out from under him.

    Parent
    I love it when she does that (5.00 / 4) (#209)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:25:38 PM EST
    the media, with the help of Terry McA, was all over the map today speculating!!

    It was awesome!!


    Parent

    I think you are very wrong about that (5.00 / 15) (#95)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:43:39 PM EST
    What so many, many overly hopeful folks fail to understand is that McCain is a very appealing guy to voters of all stripes and has not been much tarred by the general disgust with the Republicans.

    Remember that the voters haven't turned against Republicans per se, they've turned against this particular group of Republicans, and they do not see McCain as part of that and I don't think can be convinced that he is.

    I see no reason to think that Obama will be any different as a campaigner in the general than he's been in the Dem. primaries, and believe me, the hopey-changey look-down-your-nose stuff is not even remotely appealing to the Republican voters he would have to pick up to replace all us bitter old clingy white grandmothers.


    Parent

    also (5.00 / 3) (#224)
    by bigbay on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:29:21 PM EST
    the undecided voter won't like these big rallies that Obama has. It's pretty frightening to the average un-political undecided. He's going to have to ditch that. It smacks of demagoguery.(not to me, but I think to many)

    Parent
    Time (5.00 / 3) (#230)
    by suisser on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:31:13 PM EST
    will tell.

    " I'm older than you, and I've got a lot more insurance"
    Bates character," Fried Green Tomatoes"

    Parent

    Well, aren't you a charmer! (5.00 / 4) (#236)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:32:50 PM EST
    Are you our newest Sweetie?

    You have no idea who I thought would win the nomination, now do you.

    I do, however, know who would have a better chance -- and it's a chance only -- of beating McCain in the general.  You are living in a fool's paradise if you think he's not a major, major challenge for any Dem. to beat.


    Parent

    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by cal1942 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:26:16 PM EST
    Kerry could win. He would be the generic candidate that could have won.  Would stand a better chance than Obama.

    Parent
    Obama Stood on Issues? (5.00 / 11) (#65)
    by Missy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:38:16 PM EST
    yes, it stood by Hillary's because he was using her language -- for which he had no use until now.  He and the DNC are looking to Hillary to unite the party.  I hope she runs as an independent.  She owes neither of them any allegiance.

    Parent
    Missy...obama was definitely channeling (5.00 / 10) (#83)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:41:34 PM EST
    Hillary.  Remember, he has not had an original thought in over 18 months.

    Parent
    Gosh! (5.00 / 4) (#139)
    by Grace on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:05:16 PM EST
    If he gets into the White House, who will he be able to copy off of?  Can they give Hillary a seat in the Oval Office?  <snicker>

    Parent
    Now, now (5.00 / 4) (#220)
    by Y Knot on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:27:48 PM EST
    She is a celebrated author.

    And a pretty good one too.

    Credit where credit is due, she has an impressive record.  She would've been a great president, in my opinion.


    Parent

    one thought? (1.00 / 5) (#239)
    by vrusimov on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:34:06 PM EST
    except for the idiotic gas moratorium that Hillary borrowed from McCain...anyone who knows anything about america's dependence of foreign oil would laugh even louder than the experts and the media did...but it plays well with voters...

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#14)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:24:52 PM EST
    That way you will be pleasantly surprised when Obama beats McCain in November.

    Parent
    Oh, good. (5.00 / 12) (#64)
    by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:38:12 PM EST
    I wanted to tell you what I think of Daniel Drezner, in case it was lost in the ether before.

    Drezner, who used to be at the University of Chicago (now at Tufts).  He was for the Iraq War before he was against it.  (Sound familiar?)  A supposed foreign policy expert in the same vein as all the other young policy experts who somehow think they know more than anyone else.

    Was he a republican or a libertarian before the Obama craze?

    My party has been infiltrated.  I do not like it.

    Parent

    Like so many (5.00 / 1) (#250)
    by cal1942 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:57:27 PM EST
    other self proclaimed foreign policy experts who have nothing but a sham degree in their hands.  

    We've all experienced a lunatic professor in the past. I wonder if today they are more common than in my day.

    I shudder to think of what a White House influenced by the Chicago school of most everything would do to the country and what people would think of the Democratic Party after the experience. We can't let these people in the White House.

    IMO one of the myriad of Obama's shortcomings is his Hyde Park provincialism. A lack of experience as has been said.

    Parent

    Polls (4.66 / 12) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:30:35 PM EST
    right now don't support your conclusion. They show him tied with McCain and he losing in the EC.

    Parent
    Not at all (1.40 / 10) (#44)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:33:34 PM EST
    Obama is ahead on both.

    And the lead will only widen.

    Parent

    Obama peaked in February (5.00 / 20) (#71)
    by otherlisa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:15 PM EST
    IMO.

    How is it that the "presumptive nominee" loses a state - and loses it by a big margin - that he was supposed to win, as the primaries close? When AP was already declaring him the nominee? People came out and voted against him and for Hillary Clinton.

    This is just not ordinary, and not a good sign for his chances in the fall.

    Parent

    Not at all (1.00 / 7) (#89)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:42:48 PM EST
    He keeps beating McCain in the RCP average polls and the EC calculations.

    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

    Parent

    if by keeps (5.00 / 11) (#120)
    by boredmpa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:57:07 PM EST
    you mean he finally had an outlier poll in ohio and he's no longer losing by 20+ / in the 250s

    he has been behind mccain in electoral vote for quite a while and a margin of error tossup is silly, so please stop the bs.

    on the other hand, clinton has been in the 300s for quite a long time.

    Parent

    man you are behind the times (1.00 / 5) (#125)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:59:45 PM EST
    Even at MYDD, where Armstrong is a strong HRC supporter, has Obama with 311 EC votes right now.

    I don't know where you get your numbers but you may be interested in this:

    http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/003840.html

    Parent

    i get my numbers (5.00 / 6) (#140)
    by boredmpa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:05:37 PM EST
    at electoral vote.

    You're welcome to go with 538 which allocates all tossups, but that's naive considering how the polls fluctuate.

    You are tagging threads, reposting the same links, and making the exact same statements.  I may be "behind the times" but i'm not trolling and i've taken the time to read the site rules and form my links correctly..

    Parent

    You get your numbers from electoral vote? (1.00 / 4) (#163)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:14:53 PM EST
    You need to read more carefully then. here's what is says right now: Obama 276 McCain 238 Like I wrote, Obama continues to beat McCain.

    Parent
    learn to read my comments (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by boredmpa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:23:04 PM EST
    before replying to them.

    good nite.

    Parent

    Haha (1.00 / 8) (#203)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:24:30 PM EST
    You didn't even read the link you posted, did you? You weren't expecting to see Obama ahead. That's OK.

    Parent
    You are violating the site rules (5.00 / 6) (#217)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:27:20 PM EST
    You are chattering.  New commentors are limited to 10 comments per 24 hours.

    You are over 33.  If you feel the need to continue talking, visit another site.

    Parent

    His (4.81 / 22) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:38:31 PM EST
    numbers have been consistently dropping since Feb. And the GOP hasn't even really started on him yet.

    Parent
    Incorrect. He continues to tank. (4.69 / 13) (#54)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:36:01 PM EST


    Parent
    I can't tell you how much I want that (1.00 / 1) (#23)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:27:42 PM EST


    Parent
    She spoke for those of us who have been (5.00 / 21) (#2)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:20:44 PM EST
    looked over and beaten down. The ones who stood by her when the rest of the world told her to quit. She did it for us BTD. What did she have to lose?

    Oh my, Roland is furious!

    Haha! Roland's come around some (5.00 / 6) (#20)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:26:52 PM EST
    he lately has referred to both Hillary and Obama as two star candidates. But it's fun to watch steam come out of his ears.

    He was so mad about the flag pin issue and at times he doesn't get that it doesn't have to be fair in an election, if voters care about the flag pin you need to address it (you don't need to just start wearing one, but still.)

    Parent

    Furious (5.00 / 25) (#30)
    by Athena on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:29:57 PM EST
    They're having a meltdown at CNN.  She's alive!

    Hillary is always wrong - what will it be tomorrow?

    She made history - 18 million votes.  No time to go away.

    She just saw the DNC give free votes to Obama 4 days ago.  Outrageous.

    You're right - what's she worried about now?  The cables won't like her?  LOL.

    Parent

    Gergen (5.00 / 7) (#141)
    by chrisvee on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:06:19 PM EST
    just can't stand the fact that she didn't concede.  How dare she??!!

    She's got power and she's going to use it.  Good job, Hillary.  I'm wondering if she's trying to get a commitment on changes to his healthcare proposal.  Her closing story tonight was about healthcare.

    Parent

    He courts, promises and dumps everyone (5.00 / 6) (#186)
    by itsadryheat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:20:04 PM EST
    he needs to get ahead.  Before Hillary EVER believes a thing Obama ever promises, she really needs to peek under that bus!

    Parent
    lol!~classic, thanks for the laugh! :) (5.00 / 2) (#241)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:37:57 PM EST


    Parent
    CNN 'analyst' (5.00 / 14) (#177)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:17:59 PM EST
    says he'll win by letting the folks of Appalachia get to know him!

    Aaahhh (laughing to tears).

    Parent

    ROTFLMAO (5.00 / 12) (#219)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:27:45 PM EST
    He can go ride another tractor in his suit. That will impress the he!! out of the people in Appalachia. Or he can lecture them on how not to cling to their guns and their religion. They should be impressed by how he stopped clinging to his church when it was not in his political interest to stay.

    Parent
    Based on his supporters on CNN, that VP (5.00 / 14) (#32)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:30:14 PM EST
    offer story was surely bull. They hate her and I now have zero doubt that was floated out to try to get some of her supporters and was absolutely not the way you took it.

    How dare the one with the most votes not give up on the last day? Even Carl Bernstein of all people pointed out what Kennedy did. The media hate has risen and I didn't think that was possible.

    Parent

    I think you undersestimate her chances. (5.00 / 21) (#3)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:20:55 PM EST
    Obama needs Hillary to concede because his glaring weaknesses, becoming more and more apparent as times goes by, will make it very uncomfortable for SD's to actually cast votes for Obama.
    I think Hillary should make a 2-pronged push for the nomination.
    First, she should declare herself the winner of the vote, and note that no Democratic nominee has not been the winner of the popular vote.
    Second, she should target SD's in districts which she won, pressuring them to follow the will of the people and the popular vote. In fact, I would like to see her run TV ads in those districs.
    Both of these are perfectly legitimate, although the second may be unprecedented.


    Note, since Hillary won more (5.00 / 14) (#9)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:23:05 PM EST
    Congressional districts, by all rights she should have the majority of SD's on her side.


    Parent
    Not every congressional district has super (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:29:55 PM EST
    right? I really don't get how they decide who the supers are.

    Parent
    Every Congressman and Senator are SD's (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by SueBonnetSue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:42:10 PM EST
    So every district represented by a democrat has a super delegate.  

    Parent
    it doesn't matter (none / 0) (#42)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:32:27 PM EST
    because they are not on her side

    Parent
    I want them made accountable to their (5.00 / 12) (#69)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:10 PM EST
    constituents by having to cast a vote at Denver.
    I am positive that the pressure of having to actually cast a vote for this presumptive tomato can will be more than many of them can bear.

    Parent
    MarkL write to Hillary at her website (5.00 / 3) (#211)
    by itsadryheat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:25:46 PM EST
    on the HillaryHub.com page there is a tips click on the top right.  She is really going to weight what we send to her web site tonight and tomorrow and how much money she raises.

    The magic number, according to the rules, only mades a person the presumptive nominee if it includes no superdelegates.  Why? Because the superdelegate vote is not certain till cast at convention and can change a hundred times, promises notwithstanding!

    AOL got their headline right:"Obama declares himself nominee"

    Parent

    I think she should (5.00 / 3) (#167)
    by Grace on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:16:03 PM EST
    take some time off first.  Don't do anything right away.  Let Obama and McCain snipe at each other for awhile.  

    Obama really isn't vetted so who knows what could come out about him in the next couple months?  Maybe some people don't care but I know at least one person who's vote he lost just with that Reverend Wright thing.  

    Parent

    Right. Announce she is suspending her (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:17:21 PM EST
    campaign for an indefinite period.

    Parent
    Does she have to even do that? (5.00 / 10) (#206)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:24:59 PM EST
    He's only the presumptive nominee now.  No one can make her stop campaigning, or whatever she wants to do in the next phase?

    I'm laughing because I think she really stuck them between a rock and a hard (ok, so they ran right into the between themselves but this was all her).  Pelosi, Dean et al had an easier time sniping at her to get out before his endorsements reached the magic number than they will have now.

    She is: grace under fire.

    Parent

    Why does she have to do anything? (5.00 / 3) (#226)
    by miriam on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:29:37 PM EST
    At the moment she's accountable to no one. Let them all--the media, the DNC bast**ds, the everlovin' Axlerod, et al--stew for a while. She deserves all the time she wants to take.  But I have to say that after hearing McCain tonight, I don't think I can bear four years of that.  It was dreadful, just dreadful awful beyond belief.  My newspaper boy can deliver a better speech.  

    Parent
    The nomination fight is over (2.00 / 7) (#6)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:22:41 PM EST


    Parent
    Sorry. It's not over until Hillary says it's over. (5.00 / 12) (#41)
    by dwmorris on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:32:25 PM EST


    Parent
    says who? (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:36:29 PM EST


    Parent
    I do (1.00 / 1) (#78)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:40:05 PM EST


    Parent
    well you're wrong (5.00 / 4) (#96)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:44:23 PM EST
    Did Hillary decide not to go to Denver? Please enlighten me with your inside knowledge

    Parent
    Hillary Is Not Going To Denver (5.00 / 4) (#127)
    by BDB on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:00:49 PM EST
    at least not overtly.  She's going to extract as much as she can from the party (which could be quite a lot) and she's not going to release her delegates until August in case Obama melts down.  

    But she isn't going to announce a convention fight later this week.

    Parent

    So now that it's over (5.00 / 8) (#77)
    by PamFl on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:40:02 PM EST
    Why are you still here? Your "presumptive nominee" needs your help-get off you bum and do something. Don't lurk around here, we're not listening.

    Parent
    Uh, I was here before (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:43:32 PM EST
    the nomination contest heated up, and with Jeralyn's permission I intent to stick around.

    Parent
    Just try to be accurate (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:46:20 PM EST
    Don't state opinions as facts. Thanks

    Parent
    Everything I write here is my opinion (none / 0) (#112)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:53:33 PM EST


    Parent
    I Hope You Do (5.00 / 10) (#122)
    by BDB on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:58:31 PM EST
    I think it's over, too, although I would add for now.  Maybe forever.   But so much has happened in this campaign that I would never have believed, I'm not going to really believe that Obama is the nominee until August.  

    But right now he is definitely the presumptive nominee.

    Perversely, however, Hillary Clinton is arguably the most powerful person in the Democratic Party.  She is going to be until August. That's what has really got the Blogger Boiz and the media airheads so upset.  She not only isn't going away, she's more powerful than she's ever been.  And you can bet she's going to use her leverage to make sure she retains some of that power.  

    This, of course, was completely predictable.  If you know anything about political history, in this close a contest the loser doesn't just go away.  The loser extracts things in exchange for going away.  That the pundits and blogger boiz don't appear to have seen this coming shows how little they actually know about politics.

    It also is the first thing about this campaign to make me laugh today.  

    Parent

    You know I love you but I have to say this. (5.00 / 9) (#81)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:40:46 PM EST
    Remember McGurkin and how upset you were? I do. I read your posts on DK. Did you get over that in one day? As a female who has faced sexual discrimination and sexual harassment that you wouldn't believe, can you walk in my shoes? Can you try to, like I did for you?

    I don't mean this as in andgarden and Teresa but as two people who have problems with certain issues and need some time?

    Parent

    Truthfully, I am still angry (5.00 / 4) (#106)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:48:54 PM EST
    about McClurkin. But that doesn't change my opinion on the state of this race.

    I know this is hard, and I'm not happy to see Hillary lose, but I just happen to think that's the reality.

    If there were anything I could write to make you feel better about that, I would, but I'm really not sure there's anything I can say. In short: I'm sorry you're unhappy; so am I.

    Parent

    Just leave some time to heal, ok? (5.00 / 3) (#170)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:16:37 PM EST
    It can't happen in a few hours. I'm not sure that I ever can but I know for sure I can't tonight.

    Parent
    Well let's wait for Al Gore to chime in, (none / 0) (#185)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:19:59 PM EST
    yeah?  ;-)

    Parent
    I know what Al will do. The same thing Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#227)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:29:47 PM EST
    will when she knows the timing is right. Honestly andgarden, the way the super secret Super's handled today, I think it would have been worse for her to concede tonight. It would have seemed like she was forced out by a bunch of party officials who don't care about us. She will do what's right when/if the time comes.

    The media is just making it worse tonight. It is awful. Worse than I could have imagined.

    Parent

    Nobody got enough pledged delegates to (5.00 / 6) (#233)
    by itsadryheat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:31:56 PM EST
    become the presumptive nominee.  If you  have to count supers, their votes are fungible til August 26. Rules say they are both still candidates tonight and no chance of enough pledged delegates now to make win till Denver.  That is what Hillary know and Obama "taught" the news boyz something else. With help form Donna Brazile and others.

    If we show Hillary on her site that we don't want her to concede, she will feel supported.  She made clear that her supporters had brought her back every other time she had been counted down and then appealed to us to tell her what we want now.

    Parent

    What? (1.07 / 13) (#39)
    by kayla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:31:56 PM EST
    There are still people who think Hillary can pull it off?

    It's over.  He has reached over 2118 delegates.  He's won the nomination.

    Parent

    There are STILL people who don't (5.00 / 15) (#47)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:34:30 PM EST
    understand how the nomination process works, after all this time?
    I'm so disappointed in you.

    Parent
    Politics 101 is a def. must for some on here (5.00 / 6) (#61)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:37:30 PM EST


    Parent
    Oh so you're hoping things will change for him (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by kayla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:09 PM EST
    before the convention.  Well, that's a possibility.  

    Parent
    And they call (5.00 / 7) (#73)
    by janarchy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:38 PM EST
    us the low-information voters. ::sign:: No wonder I'm so dang depressed tonight.

    Parent
    Like the GOP guy, ALex, just said on CNN (5.00 / 3) (#187)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:20:33 PM EST
    He is only the presumptive nominee. Those supers don't vote tomorrow, he said, they vote in three months. A lot can happen in three months and there is no incentive for her to do anything.

    Parent
    That guy is scummy (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:28:02 PM EST
    but he did make me laugh when he said tonight that he was glad the GE isn't a speechmaking contest.

    Parent
    Donna Brazile was disappointed in Hillary (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:21:32 PM EST
    I am so biased for Hillary I really can't tell how audacious Donna was in saying that.

    But everyone who keeps saying it's up to the loser to reach out to the winner have only half the story. Obama had to ignore the successes of the Clintons to get this nomination.

    The Clintons should hold out for party boss positions to reshape this party with their input.

    Obama sounded better tonight and was kinder toward Hillary. But I'd like to wait a week and make him work for it. His supporters too.

    she is in good company (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:34:32 PM EST
    have you heard anyone say anything nice about her after Obama's speech?

    Parent
    That's O.K. (5.00 / 21) (#57)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:36:34 PM EST
    I've been disappointed in Donna Brazile for years. This year she even managed to lower my opinion of her and I didn't think that was possible. She has done quite a lot to damage the chances of a Dem winning to WH this year.

    Parent
    Ha! (5.00 / 7) (#132)
    by gmo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:02:53 PM EST
    You know, I'd love to tell Donna what Thomas Friedman said, when interviewed by Charlie Rose about the justification for the war in Iraq.   But I'm a gentleman ;)

    Besides, I think Clinton was fantastic in her speech, and perfectly complementary of Obama.  So let poor Donna be "disappointed" All. She.  Wants.

    Parent

    Reality (5.00 / 13) (#7)
    by Davidson on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:22:54 PM EST
    McCain will beat Obama--no matter what.  Yet according to the Party "leadership" it is a "non-issue."

    After McCain's speech tonight (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:31:45 PM EST
    I'm not so sure. It was well-written but the delivery was horrendous.

    I really hope he improves. Even though I'm not supposed to vote for him, I just want to be proud of my country again, and he is a war hero.

    Parent

    Excellent summary of her speech tonight (5.00 / 18) (#10)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:23:21 PM EST
    Even though it looks dark for her to be President (and I say she should take it to Denver), I am just giddy about her speech.

    They huffed and they puffed and they just could not blow her house down.  She simply rocks.  Any 'New Coalition' members who think they've succeeded in destroying her and Bill's legacy have another thing coming.

    Great speech, great delivery. (5.00 / 18) (#51)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:35:06 PM EST
    Take out the parts that made the pundits faint. It was one of the best speeches to date. "What does Hillary want?" She wants to end the war, bring health care to all. The part about the young woman struggling to pay health care bills and Hillary saying in a hushed voice "in this country, it's shameful she has a story like this." Also liked the line about Hillary saying she'll make this "my life's work."

    You know another barrier she's broken just by being a candidate is showing how a woman can promote herself. Studies have shown that when men promote their strengths people admire them, but when women do it people react differently. So just her being out there doing it gets people used to the idea.

    Parent

    I agree (4.00 / 4) (#107)
    by Melchizedek on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:49:28 PM EST
    I'm an Obama supporter and I really liked her speech. She was so engaging and forceful, so articulate and balanced in broad slogans and particular stories (especially the ending one). As I listened I was truly moved, and I couldn't help but think she would have won going away if she had just found this voice in December.

    I guess the lesson is you can't counterpunch your way to the nomination.

    Parent

    Yes *her* terms and in her own time. (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by Rhouse on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:24:35 PM EST
    And in a way Obamas' speech showed that he (or at least someone in his campaign) knows that he has to start tapping into the goodwill Bill and Hillary still have and are able to generate on the trail.  He needs to try now to bring the history of the Democratic party back from the graveyard he sent it to and make it work for him to win.

    He has been too not nice (5.00 / 6) (#108)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:50:09 PM EST
    If he presented Frankenstein to us, don't you think we saw the movie? Hard to change stripes after you have painted them on with permanent markers.

    It is like all the new first timers today inviting us to take that pony ride. We don't want a pony, we want Hillary to win the war. Either go to November (A lot of stuff can happen in 2 months) or take the VP spot.

    Parent

    Let's assume she truly believes ... (5.00 / 15) (#15)
    by dwmorris on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:25:32 PM EST
    Obama is unelectable. Doesn't she then have a moral and ehtical responsibility to stay in the race until the door is closed on her at the convention? Perhaps this is part of her rationale for not conceding.

    Yes (5.00 / 22) (#17)
    by kayla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:26:29 PM EST
    Her best line in her speech was about wanting her supporters to be treated with respect.  I actually got up and cheered that line because if she's not going to say it, then who will (beside BTD and Jeralyn, of course)?  As a biased Hillary supporter who feels like I've been beaten up for the last year or so just because I prefer her to Obama, I didn't want her to be all that conciliatory.  I'm not ready for that yet.  I still feel like she's been treated unfairly.  The thing that I love the most about this is that I know for a fact that I'm more upset about Hillary losing the nomination than she is.  That's why I like her.

    Me too! (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by mogal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:34:07 PM EST


    Parent
    CNN and MSNBC do not determine (5.00 / 14) (#18)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:26:30 PM EST
    the nominee. There is no nominee today.

    The same way (1.00 / 4) (#62)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:37:49 PM EST
    that McCain is not yet the GOP nominee.

    technically true but politically irrelevant.


    Parent

    Interestingly (5.00 / 10) (#80)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:40:39 PM EST
    I've heard several newscasters call McCain -- he of the LANDSLIDE NOMINATION VICTORY -- the "presumptive" nominee, while they call Obama, simply "the nominee".

    Obama is presumptive until Denver.  Until then, anything can happen.

    Parent

    No, not the same way, because there is (5.00 / 10) (#82)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:41:20 PM EST
    no Republican with more votes than McCain who can legitimately claim to be the people's choice, as Hillary can.
    Face it, after the robbery on Saturday, and given that Hillary is the actual winner of the most votes, I think her supporters will want her to go to Denver. Heck, with massive buyer's remorse evidence, from the course of the latter primaries, I bet many Obama supporters would like her to stay in.

    Parent
    Excellent summary of her speech tonight (5.00 / 13) (#27)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:29:05 PM EST
    She simply rocks.

    I was nearly in tears before she began but now I'm just giddy.  Even though it looks dark for the Presidency for right now, my girl doesn't back down.

    They huffed and they puffed and they just couldn't blow her house down.  Any members of the 'New Coalition' who thought they could destroy her or Bill's legacy have another thing coming.

    Go Hillary!

    Oh dear, Donna is disappointed in Hillary. (5.00 / 17) (#28)
    by kmblue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:29:37 PM EST
    I'm distraught!  LOL.

    I would have been disappointed if Hillary had been a good little girl and done what the powers that be wanted her to do--smile, make nice, and back down tonight.

    Unifying the party is Obama's job now.  

    Hillary has said repeatedly she'll work to get a Dem president in office, and I have no reason to doubt her word.

    It is Obama's job to unify. (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by Melchizedek on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:35:56 PM EST
    I disagree with so many of the pundits tonight. It works in Obama's favor, in a sense, to have had Hillary not initiate the unity movement tonight. Obama mentioned Hillary in much more detail, much more graciously and appreciatively than she did him, precisely because he could. He won, and tonight's speech was the first move toward winning her supporters. It's his job to unify the party, because now he is its leader.

    Parent
    Donna (5.00 / 10) (#98)
    by Missy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:45:43 PM EST
    Poor Donna -- didn't she say she would resign from the DNC if the nomination came down to superdelegates?  I think we should be seeing her resignation tomorrow...don't you think?

    Parent
    Donna (5.00 / 3) (#103)
    by Missy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:46:45 PM EST
    Poor Donna -- didn't she say she would resign from the DNC if the nomination came down to superdelegates?  I think we should be seeing her resignation tomorrow...don't you think?

    Parent
    She meant (5.00 / 6) (#111)
    by LoisInCo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:52:38 PM EST
    to say if it was decided by Superdelegates who didn't agree with her.

    Parent
    Donna (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by Missy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:19:51 PM EST
    Poor Donna -- didn't she say she would resign from the DNC if the nomination came down to superdelegates?  I think we should be seeing her resignation tomorrow...don't you think?

    Parent
    I felt (5.00 / 14) (#31)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:30:11 PM EST
    she did what she did for me.  It's not my problem or hers if you don't like it.

    She did what she did for me, too. (5.00 / 7) (#92)
    by Esme on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:43:31 PM EST
    What does she have to gain by not conceding tonight? A few more days of the media trashing her? Of the left blogosphere ripping her to shreds? She did it because even though she's down, she's still going to do whatever is in her power to fight for us, her 18 000 000 supporters. And for the millions of people in this country who have no health care, and who were hoping and praying that her candidacy would result in their finally being able to afford health care.

    It doesn't matter what CNN and MSNBC and the rest of the world think, quite frankly. She did what she did for us, her supporters, and we'll always be grateful to her.

    Parent

    Hoping for a unified party (5.00 / 14) (#36)
    by Nike on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:31:30 PM EST
    is something that Pelosi and Brazile and Dean and the DNC want, but only by getting rid of whole categories and classes of people. The Democratic Party as it would be if only you never had to leave Starbucks. There is no way, structurally or pragmatically, to be conciliatory with that, so I am glad that Hilary is going to talk to her voters and her supporters. One can collaborate in one's own demise; as a voter, one can no longer use "party lines" as a basis to cast a vote since the DNC has now decided that what they want is indeed a little tent democrat party, as evidenced by their reallocating of delegates from votes cast for Hilary to Obama. No one can unify a party if it does not exist.

    Yep, (5.00 / 7) (#70)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:13 PM EST
    they twisted the knife into her last Saturday, and she's now doing a little stabbing right back.

    Parent
    I think to some Party Elites (5.00 / 6) (#100)
    by znosaro on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:45:56 PM EST
    "party unity" means the same thing it did to Josef Stalin.  Fall in line, or watch out for the ice pick.

    Parent
    Stalin (5.00 / 4) (#121)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:58:03 PM EST
    I've been thinking about this a lot lately.  Under Stalin, censorship moved away from just prohibiting critical opinions of him and toward punishment for failing to praise him sufficiently.  The latter is what made it a Cult of Personality rather than just censorship.

    This is part of what has always scared me about the Obama campaign, the tendency toward Cult of Personality.  You must love him, just liking him is not enough.  (speaking generally of course, not every supporter follows that script).  That's what we had with Bush.

    To make this somewhat less OT, I think Obama has been influenced by those around him in this direction and Hillary really sent the wakeup shot across the bow.

    Who knows, maybe he can learn from her.  Not enough in the next 5 months, but eventually.

    Parent

    Democratic party is not a big tent (5.00 / 6) (#115)
    by RalphB on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:55:11 PM EST
    It's a group of little pup tents covered over by an umbrella of toxic identity politics.  It's the same structure that almost killed the party in the 70s and 80s, back with a damn vengeance.  I don't see how they can screw up bad enough not to take some congressional seats but I think the presidency is lost.


    Parent
    We shall see ... (5.00 / 5) (#63)
    by dwmorris on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:38:02 PM EST
    Obama still needs to survive the summer. The 527's are waiting in the weeds and it's not going to be pretty.

    I will concede that Obama is the presumptive nominee when he gets to 2212 (that's 2210 plus the 4 half votes he co-opted from Clinton).

    Republican strategy (5.00 / 5) (#101)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:46:03 PM EST
    If I were a Republican strategist, I would still tread softly in Obama's direction over the summer.  I don't think they'd want to upset his weak drag to the convention, because then Hillary might win the nomination and they all seem pretty resigned to her beating them.  

    On the other hand, they don't want to wait too long and lose any big chances.

    It's one big interesting chess game.

    Parent

    I thought the same, but now I'm not so sure (5.00 / 3) (#240)
    by dwmorris on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:37:02 PM EST
    McCain is a weak candidate, and I'm beginning to think that the Republicans may not be willing to risk letting Obama pick up a big head of steam. They may decide to fully engage immediately and take their chances with Clinton later, if necessary.

    Like you say, one big interesting chess game.

    Parent

    Talkleft supports who they want (5.00 / 5) (#72)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:19 PM EST
    Voters make up their own mind

    Hillary's Speech (5.00 / 19) (#75)
    by Decal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:56 PM EST
    It was really something watching the entire CNN panel, Borger, Gergen, Malveaux, and the worst of all Toobin (who called the Clinton's deranged lunatics) blast Hillary after her speech.  My wife watched the whole thing and was in tears at the end, knowing her dream of seeing a woman president was over.  After Hillary talked about why she's running and described the people she was doing it all for, the people she had dedicated her whole career to, my wife said to me: "How could anyone watch her and think she doesn't care about people?"  And yet, as soon as it was over that's ALL we heard, how she's just a big narcissist who cares only about herself.  As Borger, et al were uttering those words, I wondered that maybe Hillary's defiance was aimed at THEM! She can never win with the media.  Her "tone" was wrong.  The "quality" of her speech was wrong.  My god she just won a primary--her last victory of the longest most hardfought campaign we've ever seen.  Like she's not entitled to celebrate that in front of all her supporters.  Nobody talked about the possibility Obama stepped on her win and her last day in the sun with his all-day superdelegate push. Knowing she came this close despite this unending, unceasing hate and vitriol from the media makes me admire her all the more! I'm glad she was defiant. BTD's right.  She doesn't need them anymore.  Obama and his supporters need her!  And if she doesn't want the vice-presidency, a possibility nobody on TV seemed to consider, there's no "deal" to offer her. Respect would be a place to start.              

    there is definitely a hatefest (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:45:53 PM EST
    going on tonight at CNN...worse than MSNBC even.  It is almost like they need Clinton's permission before they can move forward. If they think she is irrelevant than they should be talking about the general instead of Clinton.

    I think it would have been better for Clinton to concede tonight, but I don't understand the hatefest.  They just can't accept how much support she has so they make it all about her instead of about her voters.

    I think she has about 48 hours before peoples heads start to explode on the cable channels and in the Obama campaign.

    Parent

    And that is bad how exactly? (5.00 / 4) (#160)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:13:49 PM EST
    I mean come on, let's hope she stays in for a couple of months. Darnit I want my exploding heads!

    Parent
    I take personal (5.00 / 4) (#190)
    by AX10 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:21:04 PM EST
    offense to these pundits.  The punditnuts cannot stand that we are staying with her till the end and the reality that we may not be on the Obama bandwagon.  It must be killing these schmucks inside.  This is the same nonsense that occured with Gore and the media in 2000.  See dailyhowler.com for more.

    Parent
    Seriously. (5.00 / 5) (#119)
    by Esme on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:56:52 PM EST
    It looks like I'm going to be boycotting CNN too.

    Honestly, the way those guys were going at it, you would have thought Hillary killed a puppy or something.

    Parent

    Truly (5.00 / 5) (#234)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:31:58 PM EST
    I avoid MSM like the plague but tuned in tonight after Hillary's speech made me giddy.  I figured with that little injection of Won't Back Down I could handle it.

    Fox had the best coverage.  Yes, they played the whole trope where won't Hillary forcing herself on the ticket would make him look weak, and were stunned that she didn't concede, but besides that their biased criticism of both her and Obama was about even.  

    CNN and MSNBC were just melting down.  So badly it was a joy to watch.

    Now I want her to take it to Denver and win the nomination anyway just to see nuclear fusion on MSNBC and CNN.  A sight to behold.

    Parent

    It's the haters' own fault (5.00 / 12) (#84)
    by Eleanor A on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:42:08 PM EST
    What does Hillary have to lose at this point?  Do we think she's worried the press or the Obama campaign will say mean things about her?

    I think she's waiting and seeing, which frankly I think is smart.  Obama hasn't been vetted, for many practical purposes, and if his polling continues to be this bad she has some chance of swaying SDs over the summer.

    I notice there are still a number of undeclared SDs as well...it's not like that would be an impossible task.

    You're too smart to be that good lookin' (5.00 / 12) (#86)
    by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:42:21 PM EST
    Truer words were never spoken:

    But there is something that a lot of these folks need to understand - Hillary Clinton does not need you anymore.

    She's got something better than Teflon, her own self-generating force-field: something her detractors have been pretending, but only wish Obama had in fraction.

    You're absolutely right that they can't touch her. In spatial terms Obama's been hiding behind her to take advantage of this shield by claiming she's "divisive" and "ambitious" and other such crap because he can't affirmatively offer anything on his own merit or talent.

    I want her to stay in it with a brief respite. She deserves a break, for one thing. And for Good Budo she merely has to step aside for a couple of weeks for and let the crossfire of slop start landing on the hurlers.

    DO WHAT? (5.00 / 7) (#87)
    by chopper on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:42:45 PM EST

    Hillary Clinton 17,673,329 (50.45%)

    Barack Obama 17,355,652 (49.55%)

    DO WE GO WITH LEGITIMATE VOTES AND DEMOCRACY,

    OR WITH CORRUPT CAUCUSES AND DISPROPORTIONATE DELEGATES ?

    PELOSI SAYS GO WITH THE WILL OF PEOPLE.

    THAT SOUNDS LIKE GO WITH THE PEOPLE'S VOTES, DOESN'T IT?

    Clinton won tonight. Why should I be (5.00 / 13) (#94)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:43:38 PM EST
    upset. I am bothered by the robbery last Saturday though.

    we're building permanent bases in iraq (5.00 / 5) (#97)
    by sancho on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:44:55 PM EST
    obama cant change that. we're stuck in iraq until  oil is no longer fungible. but maybe he can convince enough people to believe that we are leaving iraq and consolidate a winning plurality. that (maybe) said, i dont see how obama can unify the party. i dont think he knows he needs to. the new math. and even if he does, if he cant beat kerry's "white" vote threshold, he's going to join the mcgovern-dukakis club.

    I think the Obama camp asked for this speech. (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by ajain on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:50:48 PM EST
    I think its the fault of people who were trying to marginalize her. Its the fault of people trying to rush her out of this race.

    I mean why couldn't people wait till the end of the race and let her end this on her own terms?
    What is this whole deal with rushing the process?

    Now I wish things went down differently, but she was getting no credit and towards the end of this process and this is what happens when you try to throw her under the bus with such speed.

    Too much happened in one night. I think chaos was created by the way things were set up leading into the night.

    Incorrect and chattering (5.00 / 8) (#110)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:51:29 PM EST
    word for word.  Please find new material.

    As someone on CNN mentioned earlier tonight (5.00 / 13) (#113)
    by TomLincoln on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:54:00 PM EST
    Right now Barack Obama needs Hillary Clinton more than she needs him. I di as she asked and wrote my thoughts. These were simple: 1. I am really, really proud of the way she have acted as a candidate, improving all the time, rolling with the punches, not letting the sexism, the hatred or any of the vitriol stop her; 2. I will support whatever she decides upon; 3. If she is offered the VP slot, she should only accept it if Obama makes it publicvly known what her role as VP would be, and it better be very substantial, otherwise she should say no; 4. He must endorse her universal health care plan as his own; and 5. I warned her that --even with her on the ticket-- I felt he would lose in November because in reality people do not vote for the guy or gal in the VP slot, but for the one running for president and being on such a ticket may do her more harm than good.

    She will never get confirmed as a Supreme Court Associate Justice, so that is out, and I really doubt she is interested in something like that.

    I felt that following on the footsteps of Senator Ted Kennedy and being a strong advocate as a Senator for those causes important to her and us all might be a better place than a mere "I need you to win" position as VP.

    I also warned her that there were many of us who could not forgive Obama or his supporters for the race baiting, the insults on her and President Clinton, and who may never bring themselves around to supporting Obama for President even with her on the ticket.

    Now we must wait and see what she decides for herself, but I sure admire her.

    Of course he needs her (5.00 / 4) (#149)
    by Melchizedek on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:09:09 PM EST
    He's the nominee and she's not. If she were or -- let me be polite-- turns out to be the nominee, then she would/will need him a lot more than he needs her. It would be Obama supporters who would need some convincing about racially loaded remarks, siding with McCain on "experience," etc., etc.

    I think a concession would not have been right tonight. I think ending on the note she did-- whatever the hell else we do, this country should be ashamed this woman doesn't have health insurance-- sets the right tone. Because it is, in the end, about real lives, real policies, and real consequences, not personalities and personal vendettas.  

    Parent

    That's my girl! (5.00 / 17) (#116)
    by nell on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:55:16 PM EST
    She was magnificent tonight, just magnificent.

    She said what she did for us, her supporters, who have been subjected to the worst kind of abuse and insults from the media on a daily basis just because we stand behind Hillary Clinton.

    Hillary makes me so proud and I will stand with her until the last dog dies. It 'ain't over until the lady in the pantsuit says it is, and she sure hasn't said so yet.

    It was so funny to watch the CNN panel afterwards huffing and puffing about how she should have been more gracious. Jamal was so upset, talking about how the Obama people were really not pleased with her speech and this reduced her chances of being VP. Really, Jamal? I thought those chances were reduced when they accused her of wanting Obama dead...my mistake.

    I hope she does not take VP. The media's hate for Hillary has protected Obama from being properly vetted - he needs to be held accountable and he needs to take responsibility for his own actions. This is necessary for him to be a good President. That will not happen with Hillary on the ticket. They will continue to bash her while giving him a free pass. And my goodness, in an Obama administration, should he be elected in November, she would get blamed for everything that went wrong, while he would take credit for everything that went right, even when it was really her hard work. No thank you. I do not want to see a more qualified woman (who had the most votes) prop up an under qualified male. Welcome to the story of women's lives. I, for one, don't need to watch it play out at the presidential level.

    CNN is driving me crazy with the Clinton (5.00 / 10) (#117)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:56:29 PM EST
    bashing based on her speech.

    It was CNN that was reporting on Sunday that the super delegates would show Hillary the respect she deserves and wait until Wed to put him over the top.  But, do they remember that reporting NOW?

    They wanted her to back down tonight.  But, think about what else happened today.

    1st, the AP reports inaccurately that she would concede tonight.  Where did that come from?  Obama?

    Then early today they start calling him the nominee based on the intentions of unnamed super delegates.

    Where was there any respect for Clinton today at all?  Add this to the DNC stealing 4 delegates from her on Saturday and what do you expect.

    CNN says she needed to give him the spotlight tonight because he has the opportunity to speak to the whole nation tonight.  What a crock.  Do they think he couldn't schedule a speech later in the week and not get complete coverage?  They gave him whatever he wanted for the Rev Wright speech in Philly, didn't they?  Does anyone think they wouldn't have covered a nomination speech Wed or Thurs if the supers had waited until Wed to put him over the top?

    I would have done exactly what she did today.  Throw my hat into the VP race and then tell the world that I want RESPECT for my supporters.  Both the Obama supporters and the media have spent the last weeks calling her voters poor, uneducated racists.

    If the dem party and the Obama campaign want unity, then they need to start INSTRUCTING his supporters, especially on the blogs, to stop the Clinton bashing.

    The media (5.00 / 4) (#137)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:04:45 PM EST
    is Obama's worst enemy but he isn't smart enough to realize it. They have done more to damage his chances in Nov. than anybody.

    Parent
    simple cnn is telling millions of viewers (5.00 / 5) (#142)
    by hellothere on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:06:25 PM EST
    they don't need or want the majority anymore either. they want just the new dems. ok, i was gone already anyway.

    Parent
    I couldn't agree more. nt (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Joelarama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:59:52 PM EST


    Don't forget to vote at HRC (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:05:09 PM EST
    You don't have to donate, but I gave a little because her speech and spirit gave me a lift tonight.

    Obama? Progressive? (5.00 / 5) (#145)
    by kredwyn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:08:26 PM EST
    Since when? Seriously...his voting record (what there is of it) suggests a moderate--even cautious--Dem...certainly not a progressive.

    He is no Paul Wellstone or Russ Feingold. He's not even close.

    Step back. Take a look at him through critical eyes. Look at his voting record. Look at his career--realistically.

    Look at it all--including his support of John Roberts.

    He is not a Progressive.

    I just left a message for Hillary. (5.00 / 6) (#146)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:08:27 PM EST
    I told her to go all the way.
    Part of my argument is that Obama cannot be legitimate without an actual floor vote, given all the cheating.

    Since when to politicians not ask for money? (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:21:47 PM EST
    What is your point?

    Parent
    Actually I'm sure you're wrong. (5.00 / 2) (#213)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:26:19 PM EST
    If millions of people want Hillary to take it to Denver, then she probably will.

    Parent
    Seems fine to me (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Step Beyond on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:08:48 PM EST
    It's been a little slow, as has TalkLeft, but currently both are loading fine for me. Just wait a bit before trying again. Its been a busy day for most sites I would bet.

    Petty gloating defines you. Let it go. (5.00 / 4) (#150)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:09:33 PM EST
    It's not worth making yourself look so stupid.

    It's not over. (5.00 / 5) (#152)
    by Esme on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:09:41 PM EST
    And don't tell him to get over it. In any other situation, you would be seeting over stolen votes too. It's a travesty that occured. No. Not just a travesty. It was a complete and utter failure of democracy.

    Actually no (1.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:17:09 PM EST
    I have no dog in this fight. In fact, I want her to be the VP is that makes it easier to win in November. I know it's hard to believe but I actually like (and dislike) both Obama and HRC equally.

    Parent
    10 comments per 24 hours (5.00 / 3) (#193)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:21:33 PM EST
    New commentors are limited to 10 comments per 24 hours.  I believe you are over 30.

    Parent
    It's remarks like this (5.00 / 4) (#154)
    by cal1942 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:10:03 PM EST
    "I'll be honest, my own preference, as a Democrat hoping for a unified party, would have had her be more conciliatory."

    That make me all the more furious.  She has no need of being conciliatory to anyone on the opposite side of the Democratic Party especially those once in her camp, who've been aided by the association, who've stabbed her in the back.

    Hillary Clinton owes nothing to a party that pulled every conceivable filthy trick to defeat her even to the extent of willfully and deliberately stealing delegates from her. Even at the risk of losing the 8th largest state in the union.

    It is not up to Hillary Clinton to ride to the rescue of the party or Barrack Obama whether or not it's possible or not.

    Please stop trying to sell a 'unity' ticket by either jumping on Hillary Clinton or attempting to boost Obama IT'S COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.

    Depends on what you're trying (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:14:51 PM EST
    to produce. I think BTD is trying to produce a Democratic victory in the fall. I agree with that goal.

    Parent
    You think Obama is a progressive? (5.00 / 4) (#155)
    by sancho on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:10:45 PM EST
    Honestly, why? as far as i can tell, he's not even for universal healthcare. just b/c he is marketed as a democrat does not mean he really is one. you need to check obama's packaging again. "better than mcain" is not a platform.

    So Proud (5.00 / 7) (#158)
    by Redshoes on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:13:38 PM EST
    That she played through.   She's fearless!  and wise enough to know that in order to gain power you have to leverage it -- for everyone !  Across the street from my home lives an elderly women, late each afternoon a black pickup truck rolls into her driveway and the visiting nurse steps out -- I like that on the bumper she has a "Hillary" sticker and whenever Hillary talks about those who work hard I think of the VN doing the jobs that so many women do, the caring, the nurturing, the cleaning up and I think of all the candidates HRC is the one who understands and is willing to stand up and speak for them.  Stay strong, stay proud and stay true.

    Speaking of haters... (5.00 / 8) (#166)
    by miriam on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:15:58 PM EST
    Just in case anyone has the urge to check out dkos tonight, for the sake of your blood pressure:  Don't. Do. It.  The first front page post is Markos:  The only reason Clinton is not conceding is (wait for it) Money.  She wants to wring the last dollars out of her supporters.

    Armando, I know he is your friend, so out of respect for you I will refrain from comment on this.

    UHC (5.00 / 3) (#172)
    by makana44 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:16:52 PM EST
    It sure felt like she was still lobbying heavily for Universal Health Care. What a heartful thing that would be were that one of her prime, non-negotiable conditions for conciliation. Nonetheless, it's so impressive that she pulled off that her whole speech seemed simply not about her at all, but about us.

    She's not divisive but Divissima! Diva Fortissima! (5.00 / 5) (#195)
    by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:21:54 PM EST
    Splendid!

    I deserve the best and I won't settle for less so I'm sending SenC some big love to stay in it.

    If she's willing to lead, I'm 100% behind her.

    And I'm not following mindlessly like a sheep whose wool grows all the way into its head but because I've got our first woman President's back.

    She deserves the best too! Looks like our shared detractors were right about one thing: SenC and I deserve each other!

    :-)

    I am amazed (5.00 / 6) (#210)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:25:44 PM EST
    at the difference between Hillary's spectacular, graceful speech tonight, and the way it was portrayed by the ZOMG WE HAVE A BLACK NOMINEE JUST QUIT ALREADY pundits on TV.

    Anyone who thinks party unity was damaged tonight is just crazy.  It was a great night for the Democratic Party.

    They don't get it... (5.00 / 8) (#232)
    by znosaro on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:31:36 PM EST
    This speech had nothing to do with them.  It wasn't addressed "To: Donna Brazile, Keith Olberman, et. al."  It was addressed to us, the 18 million Americans who voted for her.  

    I don't begrudge anyone on the other side having their moment tonight.  Well they should.  

    But we fought just as long, just as hard.  And most of us feel like we're being cheated... hoodwinked.... bamboozled.  But Hillary didn't seek to flame or even address those feelings.

    Tonight was just about us.  She was speaking to me, and she was speaking for me.  Just as she has all along.  It was graceful, elegant, moving, and spectacular.  So, if you didn't get it, didn't like it... well, as they say, my give a d**m is broke.  Let us have our moment.  This was just about her and us.  Stay away.

    Parent

    Agreed (none / 0) (#216)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:27:18 PM EST
    Am I the only person who saw value on both speeches?

    Parent
    123 (5.00 / 0) (#218)
    by Addison on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:27:22 PM EST
    First, let me say I'm sorry for everyone on this blog who couldn't -- for whatever reason -- enjoy Obama's speech and feel the resonance of it off the dead clanging echo of McCain's speech. You missed out on something, and you're going to be alienated from the history of tonight for the rest of your lives, and I genuinely feel sorry for you. Honestly.

    Second, Hillary came very close to what I wanted tonight, and so I'm not going to say that because 1-2 sentences weren't worded the way I would've liked I think she disgraced herself. She didn't. She did alright.

    Third, Armando, you say it's Obama's job now. Don't you agree he did pretty well tonight on that task, certain blog traffic notwithstanding?

    Dude (5.00 / 4) (#235)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:32:11 PM EST
    It was a fine speech.  But let's not make it into the JFK inaugural address.

    Tonight is for show.  November is for dough.  That's where the history gets made.  Win or lose the GE, I guarantee I won't be telling my grandkids about the magical night Obama won the Democratic nomination and made the pundits swoon.

    Parent

    What's progressive (5.00 / 4) (#223)
    by Grace on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:29:15 PM EST
    about setting Women's Rights back 50 years?  You think that is progressive?  That's UNprogressive!  

    Sorry you can't read (5.00 / 5) (#228)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:29:57 PM EST
    I did not say I find McCain appealing.  I do not.  I said that many, many voters do and that Obamabots are deluding themselves if they think he can easily be beaten.
    I don't know BTD, I somehow feel (5.00 / 3) (#238)
    by Serene1 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:33:30 PM EST
    this was the best she could have done both for her supporters and the party under the given circumstances. She has a massive fan following and supporters who are convinced that she is the better candidate. These supporters includsing me are willing to mobve heaven and earth to see her get the nomination.

    She also has a rabid MSM following who hate her and are willing to spin anything she says as evil and bad. She has the Dem elite and Obama supporters who both loathe and envy her. The above mentioned worthies were salivating at the opportunity of seeing her concede defeat so that they could finally dance with abandon at her campaign grave or so they thought. If Hillary had conceded defeat today and given the chance to the MSM and Dem elite to gloat about it unabashedly that would have been the death knell of any chance Obama would have had of uniting Hillary's supporters. By being defiant and still keeping out hope for her supporters, I thought was a very smart and statesman like move on Hillary's part where she is allowing her supporters to get to the exit line with dignity that otherwise wouldn't have been given to them.

    I love Hillary all the more with this gesture of hers because this is something she needn't have done. And it only goes further to cement my opinion that she is the best to head this country.

    Hillary's voters don't need Obama anymore either (5.00 / 3) (#244)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:42:14 PM EST
    Brilliant idea in Hillary's speech was that Obama and his supporters need Hillary's 18 million voters and she wants them to respect them and not treat them as invisible. She made the statement, and is now going away, waiting for them to do the right thing. It's just brilliant. It's the kind of thing a mother does to a child. Here's what you did wrong, and here's what you need to do to fix it. And I love the part of not making it obvious they have to or else, or pushing it, just stating the obvious and letting it sit there in the air.

    Note to Obama bloggers/supporters and the like, take the hint. Don't ignore Hillary and her 18 million voters. Stop putting her and them down. Start listening.

    One addition to BTD's statement in his post I would make is, not only does Hillary not need  them anymore, but Hillary's voters do not need them any more. We're also sitting out, waiting. We've been put down, dismissed, ridiculed, made fun of, and despised. We had a great campaign. We don't need them to like us. We're quite fine and happy and content to think about Hillary running against McCain in four years. It's the Obama people that need us. We're waiting.

    I was proud of her speech tonite (5.00 / 4) (#251)
    by Amiss on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:19:44 AM EST
    She showed class! More class than all of those pundits on CNN or MSNBC. Hillary has more class in her little finger than the lot of them combined. For the first time I thought Obama was showing her some of the resspect she so rightly deserves.

    One of the reasons I care about Hillary is because her speech was all about us, her supporters, we are the ones that matter the most to her.

    This is just ridiculous (4.78 / 19) (#105)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:47:19 PM EST
    I'm sorry, but McCain is not an "angry hunched old man" to anybody but you and your friends.  To the American voter generally, he is charming, avuncular, wise, experienced, a war hero, a straight talker.  In the minds of many, many voters, in fact, he's the opposite of George Bush, which is just what they're looking for in the next president.

    And whatever you think of McCain -- and I'm no supporter of his -- leave off with the "hunched," will you?  It's very crude and cruel.

    It would be VERY stupid to (5.00 / 15) (#118)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:56:33 PM EST
    take jabs at McCain for being hunched.
    He is partially crippled from having his shoulders and arms broken numerous times as a POW.


    Parent
    Obama cheated and stole votes. (4.60 / 10) (#179)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:18:09 PM EST
    You expect Hillary to concede? You are CRAZY.

    Ah, so its ok to only steal 4 delegates?! (5.00 / 8) (#202)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:24:17 PM EST
    Shame on you.
    Then there's Texas.
    I cannot believe that HILLARY was scolded for attempting to verify signatures in TX, a state where there were massive allegations of fraud.


    Parent
    if it were only four VOTES (5.00 / 7) (#231)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:31:18 PM EST
    or one vote, the principle is the same.

    Parent
    I'm PROUD of Hillary (4.55 / 9) (#176)
    by Rik on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:17:50 PM EST
    If she wants to go to Denver, I'm for it!
    If she wants to go independent, I'm for it; however I do not see that in the cards. She will fight for the nomination and she should.

    The Media hates her already, so she should do what she wants to do.

    on to Denver

    Good question (5.00 / 3) (#205)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:24:51 PM EST
    But do you think the Obama campaign has any plan to do ONE THING that would in any way make it likely she would do that?

    Probably not, they are too busy getting their school boy/frat revenge.

    Parent

    I'm a Democrat (none / 0) (#248)
    by Rik on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:48:43 PM EST
    I have voted for Carter twice, Mondale once, Ducakus (misspelled) once, Clinton twice, Gore once, and Kerry once. Out of all of them I felt best about voting for Clinton. Come November I will vote for the Democratic ticket.

    However, I do not believe that Obama can deliver the election or anything else. Hope is not a plan.

    Parent

    By way of response to the Obama blogs (4.50 / 6) (#4)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:21:08 PM EST
    It's not narcissism when they actually do need you.

    My own feeling is that she should have conceded, but I think it was a very good move to draw attention to her voters, and I think the best way to give them a voice and a place is for her to be on the ticket.

    No (none / 0) (#247)
    by hookfan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:47:09 PM EST
    I think the best way for us to obtain a voice is to refuse to vote for Obama until he demonstrates with certainty he will fight for what he says is his policy agreements with Hillary. If we stick together we carry great weight for what we want. Remember, there is more of us than party leaders, and they will need our votes by demonstrating they want it or they can lose. Hillary not being the nominee doesn't change that one bit. The unity pony can stay in the barn until Obama shows he will fight for us, what we need and want.

    Parent
    It's (4.42 / 7) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:36:46 PM EST
    not about Hillary it's about Obama and the DNC. Why should we give these losers any more power than they already have?

    And the old stuff is more than insulting. Mondale tried that in 1984 and it doesn't work. It does nothing but drive more reliable voters away from your candidate.

    That was against Reagan (1.00 / 3) (#153)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:10:02 PM EST
    Reagan was old but he was an optimist and all he wanted to do was cut taxes.

    McCain is a grouch with a temper that wants to stay in Iraq for another 100 years and accepts he has no understanding of economics, the main issue in people's minds.

    Parent

    Yes... (4.33 / 6) (#37)
    by Jackson Hunter on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:31:40 PM EST
    Rumors are that it was hacked.  I wouldn't doubt it, but's let's all fall in line like good little nazis and hope that Obama's supporters that they let us a least live, eh?  He's won, sure it was unfair and unsquare, but let's walk quietly into the camps.

    Heh.

    Jackson

    I disagree BTD (4.00 / 4) (#35)
    by Rictor Rockets on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:31:21 PM EST
    Speaking as someone who has had major, major problems with how Hillary and the people who surround and support her have acted in this campaign, I don't think she had to concede or suspend tonight at all.

    Seriously. This has been the longest political primary in history. Supercharged, down to the very end of the line. I can't blame Hillary for saying "Geeze. Give me a few days, let me sleep in tomorrow, let me see what my options are, and settle down gracefully." Given her personality, and how she's been portraying herself, I have to say...and this is going to sound kind of odd, my respect for her would have gone down another notch

    The race is over. Obama has the nomination. Folks can tell themselves otherwise, but short of a dead girl or a live boy (as they say), he's going to August, he's going to accept the nomination, and he's going to fight against McCain.

    At this point, I will hereby stand down from any future Hillary attacks. The race is over, and it's time to focus more on taking down McCain (Wow, what a horrible speech tonight he gave today, btw) above all else. My gut is telling me that Hillary isn't going to attack Obama, or interfere with his GE campaign anymore at this point, and that is whats most important.

    I hope Hillary and Obama will come together, and I think they will, from the sound of it. They don't have to like each other personally to work with each other. I highly doubt Reagan and Bush were bosom chums.

    EDIT... (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Rictor Rockets on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:32:43 PM EST
    I mean to add my respect for her would have gone down a notch if she conceded or suspended tonight...

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 5) (#243)
    by djcny on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:41:18 PM EST
    I guess you mean to say that now that you've attacked Hillary and got more of your digs in just now, you want us all to unite and start attacking McCain to support your candidate. Dream on, you're on your own.

    Parent
    I think she does need 'us' (2.60 / 5) (#8)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:22:56 PM EST
    Neither of the Clintons will want to be seen as sore losers that did not help the party's nominee. And they are both too much of a politician not too keep all options open.

    I suspect Hllary will keep this alive for a little while but as all the focus moves to Obama vs McCain she too will do her part to win in November. She wants, in Bill's words (IIRC), to maintain political viability.

    None of her supporters (5.00 / 29) (#26)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:28:32 PM EST
    see her as a sore loser.  18 million people who voted for her see her as a fighter....an utter inspiration!

    She has every right to fight.  On Saturday, they put the knife in her gut and TWISTED for 4 stupid delegates.  

    They showed her no respect, and they deserve none in return.

    Parent

    reply, don't troll rate (1.37 / 8) (#242)
    by mareknyc on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:40:32 PM EST

    Yes, it's time to deal with the fact that Hillary is placing her own wounded pride and disappointment over the interests of the Democratic Party. I have no idea how Obama should handle that, but it would be easier for him if folks like the majority of Talk Left contributers start coming to grips with that.

    I was an Edwards supporter, had no real preference between Hillary and Barack until it became clear that he had won. At that point I became pro-Obama because I'm a Democrat, and to the extent Hillary was anti-Obama and thus anti-Democrat, anti-Hillary. For some reason us Edwards supporters don't have to be 'won over' - we passionately believed in our candidate as both better on policy and more electable, but we lost. Deaniacs and Clarkies did the same in 2004. What's wrong with you folks?

    Update to the folks troll rating this - let's assume that Edwards hadn't endorsed Obama, was regularly slamming him, and I was talking about how I hope he takes it to the convention and how I feel betrayed, and how it's up to Obama to win us over if he wants my vote would you sympathize? Of course not. And if the Obama-Clinton results were reversed I'd be telling Obama folks the same thing I'm telling Clinton people.

    Senator for life if she wants? (1.00 / 2) (#198)
    by Dadler on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:22:15 PM EST
    I know what you mean, but I still don't like the assumption behind this statement.  I think assuming this type of thing (that one can hold a political job as long as they feel like holding it) is what started her out so weakly in the race for the pres. nomination.    

    If she does a good job (5.00 / 5) (#207)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:25:16 PM EST
    For her constituents she'll get re-elected, at least until someone comes along and smears her as a lying racist and gets away with it.

    I couldn't say.

    Parent

    no name calling on here please! (none / 0) (#128)
    by hellothere on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:01:03 PM EST


    How many supers have not designated yet? (none / 0) (#131)
    by Saul on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:02:27 PM EST


    i think it's around 155 (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by rjarnold on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:20:47 PM EST


    Parent
    BTD, you said above that (none / 0) (#151)
    by zfran on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:09:38 PM EST
    "folks need to understand - Hillary Clinton does not need you anymore. She is not going to be the nominee, imo. She does not need their goodwill which they never offered in the first place."

    I respectfully disagree with your statement. She may not need us to vote for her, but she has meant more than our vote for some of us. Their goodwill, which was not forthcoming until about 1 week ago, is unfamiliar territory for the Obama's. Ed Rendell suggested the two of them sit in a room sans others and talk things out. Perhaps a good idea!!!  

    This has truly been an (none / 0) (#221)
    by zfran on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:27:49 PM EST
    extraordinary primary process. I think the results s/b extraordinary as well and we should give it its due. What is wrong with Hillary extending her hand to the $18M who voted for her and congratulating Sen. Obama for becoming the presumptive nominee. I think, yes, I almost, almost agree with BTD, that she could continue to make her own history as a vice president. He needs her....wouldn't it extraordinary if he actually thought about that!!!!!

    This has truly been an (none / 0) (#225)
    by zfran on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:29:24 PM EST
    extraordinary primary process. I think the results s/b extraordinary as well and we should give it its due. What is wrong with Hillary extending her hand to the $18M who voted for her and congratulating Sen. Obama for becoming the presumptive nominee. I think, yes, I almost, almost agree with BTD, that she could continue to make her own history as a vice president. He needs her....wouldn't it extraordinary if he actually thought about that!!!!!

    My Take On the Night | 208 comments (208 topical)