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My Take On the Night

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:15:31 PM EST
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One of the things that has been made clear tonight is that Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton will not go quietly into that good night. And in one sense, there is no reason to.

What will happen to them? The Media will blast them? NBC will be mean to her? As opposed to what they did before? Obama won't like her? And he was nice to her before? The Left blogs will spew vitriol at them? Um, and?

More . .

Comments closed

I'll be honest, my own preference, as a Democrat hoping for a unified party, would have had her be more conciliatory. And perhaps she will be in the next few days. But there is something that a lot of these folks need to understand - Hillary Clinton does not need you anymore. She is not going to be the nominee, imo. She does not need their goodwill which they never offered in the first place. Hillary can be Senator for Life if she wants. Or anything else, except President or perhaps Vice President in 2009.

Hillary will endorse Obama and campaign for him in the Fall. But as she made clear tonight. It will be on her own terms. Not anyone else's. And it is time for the Democratic Party and Barack Obama to deal with that reality. He is the presumptive nominee. It is his job now.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

< Obama's Speech | More On Tonight's Events >

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    My Take On the Night | 208 comments (208 topical)
    The (5.00 / 27) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:20:25 PM EST
    reality is that I don't think Obama can unify the party with the way he has run his primary campaign. He ran a campaign, not based on issues but based on personality. It's also the reason I'm pretty sure that he'll lose in Nov. It'll be pretty easy for the GOP to define him negatively with his baggage.

    Feh, I'm glad that I've already accepted the fact that McCain is likely to be the next President. It makes things a lot easier.

    And (5.00 / 32) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:26:17 PM EST
    Oh, don't you think it's kind of sad that our "presumptive nominee" is now a gasping for breath and broken backed unity pony who had to be pushed over the finish line on a stretcher?

    I thought we all wanted fighting Dems? I guess that is another belief that has been proven to be a joke. Kind of like we used to believe in counting all the votes.

    If ever a party deserved to lose in Nov. it is us.

    [ Parent ]

    Sad but true (5.00 / 8) (#60)
    by SueBonnetSue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:37:00 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    WE do not deserve (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by mg7505 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:50 PM EST
    to lose. SOME folks in this party deserve it. I'm not talking about the average voter; there are certain bloviators, news networks, party leaders...

    My secret fantasy is that Al Gore will declare his support for HRC tomorrow and settle this whole mess.

    Does anyone know if the Republicans are having Romney/Huckabee/McCain unity problems? Not that it makes our job any easier this fall.

    [ Parent ]

    McCain/ Romney/Huckabee (3.00 / 2) (#200)
    by cal1942 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:22:56 PM EST
    Doesn't matter if they hate each other.  They won't let it leak out.  Party operatives and high office holders won't go on television taking a whack at one another.

    They'll just line up, from the rank and file to the top.

    [ Parent ]

    Agree with both your comments. (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by alexei on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:03:28 PM EST
    Democratic lemmings all.

    [ Parent ]
    The presumptive nominee (5.00 / 11) (#49)
    by RalphB on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:34:34 PM EST
    does seem quite a let down.  Sounded like he'd been taking speech lessons from Wexler with the yelling.

    It did sound better than McCain though.  But when I called an old friend a bit ago, he liked McCain better.  He talked about his record and some issues while Obama just hopey changy repeated a lot of his old talking points.  Oh well.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama made a turn toward the issues tonight (2.00 / 4) (#11)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:24:26 PM EST
    I was personally impressed by his speech, and I actually felt that it stood very well side by side with Hillary's. (Not so much McCain's--his was embarrassingly bad).

    [ Parent ]
    His speech (5.00 / 10) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:28:15 PM EST
    was too vague for me. He sounded like Kerry. I didn't see McCain's so I can't comment on that.

    [ Parent ]
    It was not as vague as normal (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:30:31 PM EST
    And frankly, I think Kerry could probably win this year.

    [ Parent ]
    People (5.00 / 15) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:34:39 PM EST
    keep saying that but the Democratic congress has approval ratings that are even worse than Bush's. I've heard this argument time and again but it doesn't pan out because we usually nominate bad candidates that working class voters don't like. What's different about this year? Are working class voters going to show up and vote for a candidate that calls them "bitter".

    You have to realize that we have been winning on the all the generic issues for several cycles now and it still hasn't produced a winner. All those numbers were good for us in 2004 and Kerry couldn't pull it out. In the end, voters are going to vote for the candidate not the party. And the way Obama has run his primary campaign is fatal to his general election chances.

    [ Parent ]

    this is normal (none / 0) (#130)
    by manish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:02:17 PM EST
    but the Democratic congress has approval ratings that are even worse than Bush's

    This is actually the norm (i.e. that Congress has lower approval ratings than the President)..people hate the Congress, but like their representative.  It happens at the state and local levels as well.

    [ Parent ]

    However, 18% isn't normal (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:13:21 PM EST
    and Bushes ratings are incredibly low.

    Fact is, I've never seen Congressional ratings so low (although maybe there've been lower).

    [ Parent ]

    Oooh, you uttered (5.00 / 8) (#56)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:36:32 PM EST
    some famous last words.

    I remember in 2000, I thought, PHEW, Bush won the nomination over McCain, there's no way that doofus will beat Gore!

    Ooops.

    [ Parent ]

    I Thought Kerry Couldn't Lose in 2004 (5.00 / 12) (#91)
    by BDB on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:43:25 PM EST
    even though I personally wasn't crazy about him.  Bush couldn't even win in 2000 without cheating, how could he lose in 2004 when the country was a disaster?

    After seeing Saturday's clusterfrak and the venality and idiocy of so many running the party, I can't believe Democrats ever win an election of any kind.  I used to think the GOP were great at winning elections, but now that I've seen the DNC brain trust in action, I can't believe they don't win 95% of the time.

    I think Obama might not lose (although he might, which is shocking given how little enthusiasm there is for McCain).  The country's mood is such that it's going to be a huge democratic year and that might be enough to carry him across the finish line.  But even then he isn't going to win so much as the GOP loses and there will be no huge realignment.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he underperforms the Democrat's Congressional slate.  And that will be a loss, maybe not of the White House, but of a huge opportunity.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm convinced (5.00 / 9) (#129)
    by Grace on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:01:06 PM EST
    the Dem Party deliberately nominates losers.  

    Every poll, all the states won, all the votes, etc., everything except the Super Delegates says that Hillary Clinton should be our nominee -- and yet they want to nominate Obama.  

    Yes, Obama would be a historic candidate.  He'll be an equally historic candidate when he loses.  

    [ Parent ]

    It's more convincing if you use land area. (5.00 / 4) (#168)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:16:09 PM EST
    .. just trying to help.

    [ Parent ]
    Right right, she just won more votes (5.00 / 6) (#169)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:16:32 PM EST
    While he won more empty land in non critical states.

    He leads in rocks!!!

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah. (5.00 / 5) (#171)
    by Jackson Hunter on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:16:44 PM EST
    Look at his map, it is almost identical to Bush's.  Good luck campaigning in Idaho and all of the other states he'll lose by 15 pts. that he won in the primary.  Good night and good luck with that.

    Jackson

    [ Parent ]

    Go away. (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by miriam on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:18:03 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He won the caucuses (5.00 / 4) (#237)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:32:58 PM EST
    The delegate allocation to the caucuses is how she lost. Look at South Dakota's results and the neighboring states that had caucuses. There is a major disparity between caucuses and primaries.

    Then there is the Texas oddball primary/caucus which Hillary won by 100,000 and lost the delegate count.

    Here

    It's difficult to see how Hillary lost considering she won, Florida, Michigan, California, New Jersey, Texas, Penn., Ohio.

    It's the caucuses.

    [ Parent ]

    He beat her in nearly 2/3 rds of all contests... (5.00 / 4) (#246)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:45:45 PM EST
    Yes, in open primaries or caucusses!, and in states that are republican bastions, where even the most appealing, strong democratic candidates were not able to 'crack that nut', with the exception of BILL CLINTON OF COURSE, so go figure!

    Yes, and with the backing of the DNC, availed himself of votes won by Senator Clinton. Until Saturday, I never knew that his second middle name was UNCOMMITTED to have gotten all those votes too.

    Yes, with MI delegates recognized, but ironically, the popular vote does not figure into the equation, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

    VERRY DEMOCRATIC INDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED.
     

    [ Parent ]

    Correction: Obama had the most money (5.00 / 1) (#252)
    by thereyougo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:50:06 AM EST
    from the little people, remember that?

    The little people were sending their chump change to add into the gazillions he raised...

    yeeeeeah riiiiight!  Can we say Oprah money?  Bundling its way into his coffers.

    About all Hillary had was name rec.

    Give him cred that he put together a team that went from state to state to muscle their way through the caucus states. They fought for his caucus votes with charm, 'sweetie' and unity 'words'.

    Maybe they were just hired hands and didn't even believe in his change meme but they were on a mission vs. reg folks who thought we're all democrats and wouldn't wrong fellow democrats, but they did considering all the complaints of low ball tactics by Obama's people.

    They seemed like Rovian tactics, win at all costs. ergh..

    Hell, we saw Obama throw 2 of his pastors under the unity bus, lest they sunder his hopes of being the first AA prez, he wants it so bad. And he wants it for him, its all about him.

    It calls to question his moral compass.

    What is disturbing is this is the  way of campaigns hence I see no future for democracy -- Big on bucks and low on substance.

    Obama outspent Hillary 3:1 in Ohio and Penna and couldn't bury her, so repeating shallow truths doesn't speak much for candidate Obama, because he won't have that luxury in the  GE -- should he get there.

    [ Parent ]

    Um.... Some facts.... (1.00 / 3) (#245)
    by EddieInCA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:44:59 PM EST
    Hillary has been behind in pledged delegates since Iowa. She NEVER held the lead in pledged delegates.  

    She started with a 100-0 Super Delegate lead. Since then he has beat her 392-188 in Super Delegates.

    People on this site keep thinking that somehow this is going to magically turn.  What do people think is going to happen?

    Do you think that if Senator Clinton didn't have something to use on Obama, that they'd have used it?

    Do you honestly think that Senator Obama and Senator Clinton were holding back ANYTHING they could have used in this primary?

    I don't think so. But reasonable minds may differ.

    [ Parent ]

    Even Kerry (5.00 / 4) (#66)
    by SueBonnetSue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:38:29 PM EST
    Or any other known democrat.  Our party, the leaders and SD, and the media, have cost us the White House.  I hope they're happy.  

    [ Parent ]
    "it was not as vague as normal" is not (5.00 / 11) (#79)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:40:16 PM EST
    exactly a ringing endorsement.  obama's speech was written based on what he THOUGHT Hillary would do...she pulled the rug right out from under him.

    [ Parent ]
    I love it when she does that (5.00 / 4) (#209)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:25:38 PM EST
    the media, with the help of Terry McA, was all over the map today speculating!!

    It was awesome!!


    [ Parent ]

    I think you are very wrong about that (5.00 / 15) (#95)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:43:39 PM EST
    What so many, many overly hopeful folks fail to understand is that McCain is a very appealing guy to voters of all stripes and has not been much tarred by the general disgust with the Republicans.

    Remember that the voters haven't turned against Republicans per se, they've turned against this particular group of Republicans, and they do not see McCain as part of that and I don't think can be convinced that he is.

    I see no reason to think that Obama will be any different as a campaigner in the general than he's been in the Dem. primaries, and believe me, the hopey-changey look-down-your-nose stuff is not even remotely appealing to the Republican voters he would have to pick up to replace all us bitter old clingy white grandmothers.


    [ Parent ]

    also (5.00 / 3) (#224)
    by bigbay on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:29:21 PM EST
    the undecided voter won't like these big rallies that Obama has. It's pretty frightening to the average un-political undecided. He's going to have to ditch that. It smacks of demagoguery.(not to me, but I think to many)

    [ Parent ]
    Time (5.00 / 3) (#230)
    by suisser on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:31:13 PM EST
    will tell.

    " I'm older than you, and I've got a lot more insurance"
    Bates character," Fried Green Tomatoes"

    [ Parent ]

    Well, aren't you a charmer! (5.00 / 4) (#236)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:32:50 PM EST
    Are you our newest Sweetie?

    You have no idea who I thought would win the nomination, now do you.

    I do, however, know who would have a better chance -- and it's a chance only -- of beating McCain in the general.  You are living in a fool's paradise if you think he's not a major, major challenge for any Dem. to beat.


    [ Parent ]

    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by cal1942 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:26:16 PM EST
    Kerry could win. He would be the generic candidate that could have won.  Would stand a better chance than Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama Stood on Issues? (5.00 / 12) (#65)
    by Missy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:38:16 PM EST
    yes, it stood by Hillary's because he was using her language -- for which he had no use until now.  He and the DNC are looking to Hillary to unite the party.  I hope she runs as an independent.  She owes neither of them any allegiance.

    [ Parent ]
    Missy...obama was definitely channeling (4.66 / 12) (#83)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:41:34 PM EST
    Hillary.  Remember, he has not had an original thought in over 18 months.

    [ Parent ]
    Gosh! (5.00 / 4) (#139)
    by Grace on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:05:16 PM EST
    If he gets into the White House, who will he be able to copy off of?  Can they give Hillary a seat in the Oval Office?  <snicker>

    [ Parent ]
    Now, now (5.00 / 4) (#220)
    by Y Knot on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:27:48 PM EST
    She is a celebrated author.

    And a pretty good one too.

    Credit where credit is due, she has an impressive record.  She would've been a great president, in my opinion.


    [ Parent ]

    one thought? (1.00 / 5) (#239)
    by vrusimov on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:34:06 PM EST
    except for the idiotic gas moratorium that Hillary borrowed from McCain...anyone who knows anything about america's dependence of foreign oil would laugh even louder than the experts and the media did...but it plays well with voters...

    [ Parent ]
    Yes (none / 0) (#14)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:24:52 PM EST
    That way you will be pleasantly surprised when Obama beats McCain in November.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, good. (5.00 / 13) (#64)
    by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:38:12 PM EST
    I wanted to tell you what I think of Daniel Drezner, in case it was lost in the ether before.

    Drezner, who used to be at the University of Chicago (now at Tufts).  He was for the Iraq War before he was against it.  (Sound familiar?)  A supposed foreign policy expert in the same vein as all the other young policy experts who somehow think they know more than anyone else.

    Was he a republican or a libertarian before the Obama craze?

    My party has been infiltrated.  I do not like it.

    [ Parent ]

    Like so many (5.00 / 1) (#250)
    by cal1942 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:57:27 PM EST
    other self proclaimed foreign policy experts who have nothing but a sham degree in their hands.  

    We've all experienced a lunatic professor in the past. I wonder if today they are more common than in my day.

    I shudder to think of what a White House influenced by the Chicago school of most everything would do to the country and what people would think of the Democratic Party after the experience. We can't let these people in the White House.

    IMO one of the myriad of Obama's shortcomings is his Hyde Park provincialism. A lack of experience as has been said.

    [ Parent ]

    Polls (4.66 / 12) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:30:35 PM EST
    right now don't support your conclusion. They show him tied with McCain and he losing in the EC.

    [ Parent ]
    Not at all (1.40 / 10) (#44)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:33:34 PM EST
    Obama is ahead on both.

    And the lead will only widen.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama peaked in February (5.00 / 21) (#71)
    by otherlisa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:15 PM EST
    IMO.

    How is it that the "presumptive nominee" loses a state - and loses it by a big margin - that he was supposed to win, as the primaries close? When AP was already declaring him the nominee? People came out and voted against him and for Hillary Clinton.

    This is just not ordinary, and not a good sign for his chances in the fall.

    [ Parent ]

    Not at all (1.00 / 7) (#89)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:42:48 PM EST
    He keeps beating McCain in the RCP average polls and the EC calculations.

    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

    [ Parent ]

    if by keeps (4.66 / 12) (#120)
    by boredmpa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:57:07 PM EST
    you mean he finally had an outlier poll in ohio and he's no longer losing by 20+ / in the 250s

    he has been behind mccain in electoral vote for quite a while and a margin of error tossup is silly, so please stop the bs.

    on the other hand, clinton has been in the 300s for quite a long time.

    [ Parent ]

    man you are behind the times (1.00 / 5) (#125)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:59:45 PM EST
    Even at MYDD, where Armstrong is a strong HRC supporter, has Obama with 311 EC votes right now.

    I don't know where you get your numbers but you may be interested in this:

    http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/003840.html

    [ Parent ]

    i get my numbers (5.00 / 6) (#140)
    by boredmpa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:05:37 PM EST
    at electoral vote.

    You're welcome to go with 538 which allocates all tossups, but that's naive considering how the polls fluctuate.

    You are tagging threads, reposting the same links, and making the exact same statements.  I may be "behind the times" but i'm not trolling and i've taken the time to read the site rules and form my links correctly..

    [ Parent ]

    You get your numbers from electoral vote? (1.00 / 4) (#163)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:14:53 PM EST
    You need to read more carefully then. here's what is says right now: Obama 276 McCain 238 Like I wrote, Obama continues to beat McCain.

    [ Parent ]
    learn to read my comments (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by boredmpa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:23:04 PM EST
    before replying to them.

    good nite.

    [ Parent ]

    Haha (1.00 / 8) (#203)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:24:30 PM EST
    You didn't even read the link you posted, did you? You weren't expecting to see Obama ahead. That's OK.

    [ Parent ]
    You are violating the site rules (5.00 / 6) (#217)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:27:20 PM EST
    You are chattering.  New commentors are limited to 10 comments per 24 hours.

    You are over 33.  If you feel the need to continue talking, visit another site.

    [ Parent ]

    His (4.81 / 22) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:38:31 PM EST
    numbers have been consistently dropping since Feb. And the GOP hasn't even really started on him yet.

    [ Parent ]
    Incorrect. He continues to tank. (4.69 / 13) (#54)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:36:01 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I can't tell you how much I want that (1.00 / 1) (#23)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:27:42 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    She spoke for those of us who have been (5.00 / 21) (#2)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:20:44 PM EST
    looked over and beaten down. The ones who stood by her when the rest of the world told her to quit. She did it for us BTD. What did she have to lose?

    Oh my, Roland is furious!

    Haha! Roland's come around some (5.00 / 6) (#20)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:26:52 PM EST
    he lately has referred to both Hillary and Obama as two star candidates. But it's fun to watch steam come out of his ears.

    He was so mad about the flag pin issue and at times he doesn't get that it doesn't have to be fair in an election, if voters care about the flag pin you need to address it (you don't need to just start wearing one, but still.)

    [ Parent ]

    Furious (5.00 / 26) (#30)
    by Athena on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:29:57 PM EST
    They're having a meltdown at CNN.  She's alive!

    Hillary is always wrong - what will it be tomorrow?

    She made history - 18 million votes.  No time to go away.

    She just saw the DNC give free votes to Obama 4 days ago.  Outrageous.

    You're right - what's she worried about now?  The cables won't like her?  LOL.

    [ Parent ]

    Gergen (5.00 / 7) (#141)
    by chrisvee on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:06:19 PM EST
    just can't stand the fact that she didn't concede.  How dare she??!!

    She's got power and she's going to use it.  Good job, Hillary.  I'm wondering if she's trying to get a commitment on changes to his healthcare proposal.  Her closing story tonight was about healthcare.

    [ Parent ]

    He courts, promises and dumps everyone (5.00 / 6) (#186)
    by itsadryheat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:20:04 PM EST
    he needs to get ahead.  Before Hillary EVER believes a thing Obama ever promises, she really needs to peek under that bus!

    [ Parent ]
    lol!~classic, thanks for the laugh! :) (5.00 / 2) (#241)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:37:57 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    CNN 'analyst' (5.00 / 14) (#177)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:17:59 PM EST
    says he'll win by letting the folks of Appalachia get to know him!

    Aaahhh (laughing to tears).

    [ Parent ]

    ROTFLMAO (5.00 / 12) (#219)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:27:45 PM EST
    He can go ride another tractor in his suit. That will impress the he!! out of the people in Appalachia. Or he can lecture them on how not to cling to their guns and their religion. They should be impressed by how he stopped clinging to his church when it was not in his political interest to stay.

    [ Parent ]
    Based on his supporters on CNN, that VP (5.00 / 14) (#32)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:30:14 PM EST
    offer story was surely bull. They hate her and I now have zero doubt that was floated out to try to get some of her supporters and was absolutely not the way you took it.

    How dare the one with the most votes not give up on the last day? Even Carl Bernstein of all people pointed out what Kennedy did. The media hate has risen and I didn't think that was possible.

    [ Parent ]

    I think you undersestimate her chances. (5.00 / 21) (#3)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:20:55 PM EST
    Obama needs Hillary to concede because his glaring weaknesses, becoming more and more apparent as times goes by, will make it very uncomfortable for SD's to actually cast votes for Obama.
    I think Hillary should make a 2-pronged push for the nomination.
    First, she should declare herself the winner of the vote, and note that no Democratic nominee has not been the winner of the popular vote.
    Second, she should target SD's in districts which she won, pressuring them to follow the will of the people and the popular vote. In fact, I would like to see her run TV ads in those districs.
    Both of these are perfectly legitimate, although the second may be unprecedented.


    Note, since Hillary won more (5.00 / 14) (#9)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:23:05 PM EST
    Congressional districts, by all rights she should have the majority of SD's on her side.


    [ Parent ]
    Not every congressional district has super (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:29:55 PM EST
    right? I really don't get how they decide who the supers are.

    [ Parent ]
    Every Congressman and Senator are SD's (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by SueBonnetSue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:42:10 PM EST
    So every district represented by a democrat has a super delegate.  

    [ Parent ]
    it doesn't matter (none / 0) (#42)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:32:27 PM EST
    because they are not on her side

    [ Parent ]
    I want them made accountable to their (5.00 / 12) (#69)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:10 PM EST
    constituents by having to cast a vote at Denver.
    I am positive that the pressure of having to actually cast a vote for this presumptive tomato can will be more than many of them can bear.

    [ Parent ]
    MarkL write to Hillary at her website (5.00 / 3) (#211)
    by itsadryheat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:25:46 PM EST
    on the HillaryHub.com page there is a tips click on the top right.  She is really going to weight what we send to her web site tonight and tomorrow and how much money she raises.

    The magic number, according to the rules, only mades a person the presumptive nominee if it includes no superdelegates.  Why? Because the superdelegate vote is not certain till cast at convention and can change a hundred times, promises notwithstanding!

    AOL got their headline right:"Obama declares himself nominee"

    [ Parent ]

    I think she should (5.00 / 3) (#167)
    by Grace on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:16:03 PM EST
    take some time off first.  Don't do anything right away.  Let Obama and McCain snipe at each other for awhile.  

    Obama really isn't vetted so who knows what could come out about him in the next couple months?  Maybe some people don't care but I know at least one person who's vote he lost just with that Reverend Wright thing.  

    [ Parent ]

    Right. Announce she is suspending her (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:17:21 PM EST
    campaign for an indefinite period.

    [ Parent ]
    Does she have to even do that? (5.00 / 10) (#206)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:24:59 PM EST
    He's only the presumptive nominee now.  No one can make her stop campaigning, or whatever she wants to do in the next phase?

    I'm laughing because I think she really stuck them between a rock and a hard (ok, so they ran right into the between themselves but this was all her).  Pelosi, Dean et al had an easier time sniping at her to get out before his endorsements reached the magic number than they will have now.

    She is: grace under fire.

    [ Parent ]

    Why does she have to do anything? (5.00 / 3) (#226)
    by miriam on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:29:37 PM EST
    At the moment she's accountable to no one. Let them all--the media, the DNC bast**ds, the everlovin' Axlerod, et al--stew for a while. She deserves all the time she wants to take.  But I have to say that after hearing McCain tonight, I don't think I can bear four years of that.  It was dreadful, just dreadful awful beyond belief.  My newspaper boy can deliver a better speech.  

    [ Parent ]
    The nomination fight is over (2.00 / 7) (#6)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:22:41 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Sorry. It's not over until Hillary says it's over. (5.00 / 13) (#41)
    by dwmorris on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:32:25 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    says who? (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:36:29 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I do (1.00 / 1) (#78)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:40:05 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    well you're wrong (5.00 / 4) (#96)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:44:23 PM EST
    Did Hillary decide not to go to Denver? Please enlighten me with your inside knowledge

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary Is Not Going To Denver (5.00 / 4) (#127)
    by BDB on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:00:49 PM EST
    at least not overtly.  She's going to extract as much as she can from the party (which could be quite a lot) and she's not going to release her delegates until August in case Obama melts down.  

    But she isn't going to announce a convention fight later this week.

    [ Parent ]

    So now that it's over (5.00 / 8) (#77)
    by PamFl on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:40:02 PM EST
    Why are you still here? Your "presumptive nominee" needs your help-get off you bum and do something. Don't lurk around here, we're not listening.

    [ Parent ]
    Uh, I was here before (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:43:32 PM EST
    the nomination contest heated up, and with Jeralyn's permission I intent to stick around.

    [ Parent ]
    Just try to be accurate (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:46:20 PM EST
    Don't state opinions as facts. Thanks

    [ Parent ]
    Everything I write here is my opinion (none / 0) (#112)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:53:33 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I Hope You Do (5.00 / 10) (#122)
    by BDB on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:58:31 PM EST
    I think it's over, too, although I would add for now.  Maybe forever.   But so much has happened in this campaign that I would never have believed, I'm not going to really believe that Obama is the nominee until August.  

    But right now he is definitely the presumptive nominee.

    Perversely, however, Hillary Clinton is arguably the most powerful person in the Democratic Party.  She is going to be until August. That's what has really got the Blogger Boiz and the media airheads so upset.  She not only isn't going away, she's more powerful than she's ever been.  And you can bet she's going to use her leverage to make sure she retains some of that power.  

    This, of course, was completely predictable.  If you know anything about political history, in this close a contest the loser doesn't just go away.  The loser extracts things in exchange for going away.  That the pundits and blogger boiz don't appear to have seen this coming shows how little they actually know about politics.

    It also is the first thing about this campaign to make me laugh today.  

    [ Parent ]

    You know I love you but I have to say this. (5.00 / 9) (#81)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:40:46 PM EST
    Remember McGurkin and how upset you were? I do. I read your posts on DK. Did you get over that in one day? As a female who has faced sexual discrimination and sexual harassment that you wouldn't believe, can you walk in my shoes? Can you try to, like I did for you?

    I don't mean this as in andgarden and Teresa but as two people who have problems with certain issues and need some time?

    [ Parent ]

    Truthfully, I am still angry (5.00 / 4) (#106)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:48:54 PM EST
    about McClurkin. But that doesn't change my opinion on the state of this race.

    I know this is hard, and I'm not happy to see Hillary lose, but I just happen to think that's the reality.

    If there were anything I could write to make you feel better about that, I would, but I'm really not sure there's anything I can say. In short: I'm sorry you're unhappy; so am I.

    [ Parent ]

    Just leave some time to heal, ok? (5.00 / 3) (#170)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:16:37 PM EST
    It can't happen in a few hours. I'm not sure that I ever can but I know for sure I can't tonight.

    [ Parent ]
    Well let's wait for Al Gore to chime in, (none / 0) (#185)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:19:59 PM EST
    yeah?  ;-)

    [ Parent ]
    I know what Al will do. The same thing Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#227)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:29:47 PM EST
    will when she knows the timing is right. Honestly andgarden, the way the super secret Super's handled today, I think it would have been worse for her to concede tonight. It would have seemed like she was forced out by a bunch of party officials who don't care about us. She will do what's right when/if the time comes.

    The media is just making it worse tonight. It is awful. Worse than I could have imagined.

    [ Parent ]

    Nobody got enough pledged delegates to (5.00 / 6) (#233)
    by itsadryheat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:31:56 PM EST
    become the presumptive nominee.  If you  have to count supers, their votes are fungible til August 26. Rules say they are both still candidates tonight and no chance of enough pledged delegates now to make win till Denver.  That is what Hillary know and Obama "taught" the news boyz something else. With help form Donna Brazile and others.

    If we show Hillary on her site that we don't want her to concede, she will feel supported.  She made clear that her supporters had brought her back every other time she had been counted down and then appealed to us to tell her what we want now.

    [ Parent ]

    What? (1.07 / 14) (#39)
    by kayla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:31:56 PM EST
    There are still people who think Hillary can pull it off?

    It's over.  He has reached over 2118 delegates.  He's won the nomination.

    [ Parent ]

    There are STILL people who don't (5.00 / 15) (#47)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:34:30 PM EST
    understand how the nomination process works, after all this time?
    I'm so disappointed in you.

    [ Parent ]
    Politics 101 is a def. must for some on here (5.00 / 6) (#61)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:37:30 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Oh so you're hoping things will change for him (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by kayla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:09 PM EST
    before the convention.  Well, that's a possibility.  

    [ Parent ]
    And they call (5.00 / 7) (#73)
    by janarchy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:39:38 PM EST
    us the low-information voters. ::sign:: No wonder I'm so dang depressed tonight.

    [ Parent ]
    Like the GOP guy, ALex, just said on CNN (5.00 / 3) (#187)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:20:33 PM EST
    He is only the presumptive nominee. Those supers don't vote tomorrow, he said, they vote in three months. A lot can happen in three months and there is no incentive for her to do anything.

    [ Parent ]
    That guy is scummy (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:28:02 PM EST
    but he did make me laugh when he said tonight that he was glad the GE isn't a speechmaking contest.

    [ Parent ]
    Donna Brazile was disappointed in Hillary (5.00 / 6) (#5)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:21:32 PM EST
    I am so biased for Hillary I really can't tell how audacious Donna was in saying that.

    But everyone who keeps saying it's up to the loser to reach out to the winner have only half the story. Obama had to ignore the successes of the Clintons to get this nomination.

    The Clintons should hold out for party boss positions to reshape this party with their input.

    Obama sounded better tonight and was kinder toward Hillary. But I'd like to wait a week and make him work for it. His supporters too.

    she is in good company (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:34:32 PM EST
    have you heard anyone say anything nice about her after Obama's speech?

    [ Parent ]
    That's O.K. (5.00 / 21) (#57)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:36:34 PM EST
    I've been disappointed in Donna Brazile for years. This year she even managed to lower my opinion of her and I didn't think that was possible. She has done quite a lot to damage the chances of a Dem winning to WH this year.

    [ Parent ]
    Ha! (5.00 / 7) (#132)
    by gmo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:02:53 PM EST
    You know, I'd love to tell Donna what Thomas Friedman said, when interviewed by Charlie Rose about the justification for the war in Iraq.   But I'm a gentleman ;)

    Besides, I think Clinton was fantastic in her speech, and perfectly complementary of Obama.  So let poor Donna be "disappointed" All. She.  Wants.

    [ Parent ]

    Reality (5.00 / 13) (#7)
    by Davidson on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:22:54 PM EST
    McCain will beat Obama--no matter what.  Yet according to the Party "leadership" it is a "non-issue."

    After McCain's speech tonight (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:31:45 PM EST
    I'm not so sure. It was well-written but the delivery was horrendous.

    I really hope he improves. Even though I'm not supposed to vote for him, I just want to be proud of my country again, and he is a war hero.

    [ Parent ]

    Excellent summary of her speech tonight (5.00 / 18) (#10)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:23:21 PM EST
    Even though it looks dark for her to be President (and I say she should take it to Denver), I am just giddy about her speech.

    They huffed and they puffed and they just could not blow her house down.  She simply rocks.  Any 'New Coalition' members who think they've succeeded in destroying her and Bill's legacy have another thing coming.

    Great speech, great delivery. (5.00 / 18) (#51)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:35:06 PM EST
    Take out the parts that made the pundits faint. It was one of the best speeches to date. "What does Hillary want?" She wants to end the war, bring health care to all. The part about the young woman struggling to pay health care bills and Hillary saying in a hushed voice "in this country, it's shameful she has a story like this." Also liked the line about Hillary saying she'll make this "my life's work."

    You know another barrier she's broken just by being a candidate is showing how a woman can promote herself. Studies have shown that when men promote their strengths people admire them, but when women do it people react differently. So just her being out there doing it gets people used to the idea.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree (4.00 / 4) (#107)
    by Melchizedek on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:49:28 PM EST
    I'm an Obama supporter and I really liked her speech. She was so engaging and forceful, so articulate and balanced in broad slogans and particular stories (especially the ending one). As I listened I was truly moved, and I couldn't help but think she would have won going away if she had just found this voice in December.

    I guess the lesson is you can't counterpunch your way to the nomination.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes *her* terms and in her own time. (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by Rhouse on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:24:35 PM EST
    And in a way Obamas' speech showed that he (or at least someone in his campaign) knows that he has to start tapping into the goodwill Bill and Hillary still have and are able to generate on the trail.  He needs to try now to bring the history of the Democratic party back from the graveyard he sent it to and make it work for him to win.

    He has been too not nice (5.00 / 6) (#108)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:50:09 PM EST
    If he presented Frankenstein to us, don't you think we saw the movie? Hard to change stripes after you have painted them on with permanent markers.

    It is like all the new first timers today inviting us to take that pony ride. We don't want a pony, we want Hillary to win the war. Either go to November (A lot of stuff can happen in 2 months) or take the VP spot.

    [ Parent ]

    Let's assume she truly believes ... (5.00 / 16) (#15)
    by dwmorris on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:25:32 PM EST
    Obama is unelectable. Doesn't she then have a moral and ehtical responsibility to stay in the race until the door is closed on her at the convention? Perhaps this is part of her rationale for not conceding.

    Yes (5.00 / 22) (#17)
    by kayla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:26:29 PM EST
    Her best line in her speech was about wanting her supporters to be treated with respect.  I actually got up and cheered that line because if she's not going to say it, then who will (beside BTD and Jeralyn, of course)?  As a biased Hillary supporter who feels like I've been beaten up for the last year or so just because I prefer her to Obama, I didn't want her to be all that conciliatory.  I'm not ready for that yet.  I still feel like she's been treated unfairly.  The thing that I love the most about this is that I know for a fact that I'm more upset about Hillary losing the nomination than she is.  That's why I like her.

    Me too! (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by mogal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:34:07 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    CNN and MSNBC do not determine (5.00 / 14) (#18)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:26:30 PM EST
    the nominee. There is no nominee today.

    The same way (1.00 / 4) (#62)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:37:49 PM EST
    that McCain is not yet the GOP nominee.

    technically true but politically irrelevant.


    [ Parent ]

    Interestingly (5.00 / 10) (#80)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:40:39 PM EST
    I've heard several newscasters call McCain -- he of the LANDSLIDE NOMINATION VICTORY -- the "presumptive" nominee, while they call Obama, simply "the nominee".

    Obama is presumptive until Denver.  Until then, anything can happen.

    [ Parent ]

    No, not the same way, because there is (5.00 / 10) (#82)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:41:20 PM EST
    no Republican with more votes than McCain who can legitimately claim to be the people's choice, as Hillary can.
    Face it, after the robbery on Saturday, and given that Hillary is the actual winner of the most votes, I think her supporters will want her to go to Denver. Heck, with massive buyer's remorse evidence, from the course of the latter primaries, I bet many Obama supporters would like her to stay in.

    [ Parent ]
    Excellent summary of her speech tonight (5.00 / 13) (#27)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:29:05 PM EST
    She simply rocks.

    I was nearly in tears before she began but now I'm just giddy.  Even though it looks dark for the Presidency for right now, my girl doesn't back down.

    They huffed and they puffed and they just couldn't blow her house down.  Any members of the 'New Coalition' who thought they could destroy her or Bill's legacy have another thing coming.

    Go Hillary!

    Oh dear, Donna is disappointed in Hillary. (5.00 / 17) (#28)
    by kmblue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:29:37 PM EST
    I'm distraught!  LOL.

    I would have been disappointed if Hillary had been a good little girl and done what the powers that be wanted her to do--smile, make nice, and back down tonight.

    Unifying the party is Obama's job now.  

    Hillary has said repeatedly she'll work to get a Dem president in office, and I have no reason to doubt her word.

    It is Obama's job to unify. (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by Melchizedek on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:35:56 PM EST
    I disagree with so many of the pundits tonight. It works in Obama's favor, in a sense, to have had Hillary not initiate the unity movement tonight. Obama mentioned Hillary in much more detail, much more graciously and appreciatively than she did him, precisely because he could. He won, and tonight's speech was the first move toward winning her supporters. It's his job to unify the party, because now he is its leader.

    [ Parent ]
    Donna (5.00 / 10) (#98)
    by Missy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:45:43 PM EST
    Poor Donna -- didn't she say she would resign from the DNC if the nomination came down to superdelegates?  I think we should be seeing her resignation tomorrow...don't you think?

    [ Parent ]
    Donna (5.00 / 3) (#103)
    by Missy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:46:45 PM EST
    Poor Donna -- didn't she say she would resign from the DNC if the nomination came down to superdelegates?  I think we should be seeing her resignation tomorrow...don't you think?

    [ Parent ]
    She meant (5.00 / 6) (#111)
    by LoisInCo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:52:38 PM EST
    to say if it was decided by Superdelegate