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Obama to Cross 2,118 Threshold Momentarily

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:35:47 PM EST
Tags: Barack Obama, 2008 (all tags)
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Barack Obama is moments away from reaching the 2,118 pledged delegate threshold. CNN says he is 12 away.

The media has declared him the Democratic nominee and is beginning the post-mortem.

Will Hillary agree he has won the nomination and suspend her campaign tonight after all?

I'll be live-blogging her speech.

Comments closed.

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    Obama to Cross 2,118 Threshold Momentarily | 208 comments (208 topical)
    I know this is rude (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:38:17 PM EST
    but are they trying to say he's reached the magic number but ignoring he was given Clinton's delegates?  That's a little uhhhh pathetic.

    walden....obama does NOT care as long as (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:39:10 PM EST
    he wins.  I am not sure he even cares about the GE right now.

    [ Parent ]
    CNN not Obama (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:58 PM EST
    I know CNN is trying to get their guy over the finish line... it would just make sense to recognize that the DNC followed no rules when taking Clinton's delegates, they should wait until he at least makes the number on his own not the ones the DNC took.

    [ Parent ]
    walden....that would be done by a honorable (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:02:14 PM EST
    man....not sure if that word would ever apply to
    obama.

    And you can see how his trolls are milling about like cockroaches here waiting to strike.  They have jumped the gun.  It isn't over til August.

    [ Parent ]

    By Any Means Necessary (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Brookhaven on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:59:23 PM EST
    I feel with this "countdown" like we are all waiting for the ball in Times Square to Drop.  That's not how the winner of the Dem nom is supposed to be "crowned" the Dem nom.  Trickling in, slowly, one at a time, drip, drip, drip.  

    And, meanwhile people in two states are still voting in this democracy of ours and nobody seems to care it's all about Obama.

    Just watching a bit of asshats Matthews and KO and they are still dissing HRC along with Bill with help from Brokaw.  And, so it goes. Pop go the weasels, all of them.

    And, we still are waiting for someone to care about SD and Montana.  

    [ Parent ]

    Another example of IOKIYAOS (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:39:48 PM EST
    hoping this isn't OT but...

    (ps, it means It's OK if you're an Obama supporter)

    The orange blog has a current front-page post which basically says

    Clinton "Clinton Open to Being Obama's Veep.  I'm Open to Being the Detroit Tigers' Second Baseman."

    I almost posted a GBCW diary right then, but I've resisted.  And I voted for Obama.

    It's DH, think nothing of it. . . (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:40:57 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He is a j^*% and an a*&^*&^e. (5.00 / 5) (#39)
    by ghost2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:48:31 PM EST
    Had to get that out of my system.

    I once wrote a civil comment criticizing his take on a debate, and in reply he called me pathological!  This was from a front page poster, and a former congressional staff!

    I always thought that was par for course.  Like their other pravda-like efforts to smear Clinton and her supporters to drive us away.  I guess he really wanted me to lose it, and so they could be justified in banning me/ or let a mob do the autoban.

    [ Parent ]

    What? (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:43:57 PM EST
    You don;t think DH has any chance of being the Tigers second baseman?

    What struck me about that post was this - DH is a smart guy, he would normally know how stupid it is to compare his chances of being a baseball player with Hillary's chances of being VP.

    But his drive for being what he is overcame his usual intelligence.

    [ Parent ]

    I won't try internet psychology but. . . . (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:45:02 PM EST
    Don't we sometimes joke about what we fear may come true?

    [ Parent ]
    Does he have intelligence? (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by ghost2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:50:25 PM EST
    To me someone could be shrewd/clever.  But I consider intelligence to be a positive quality and reflective of character as well as understanding.  To be intelligent requires a person to have fairness and integrity as well as smarts.  

    [ Parent ]
    IMO...Hillary is waiting for the convention (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:06 PM EST
    where they will be voting her the nominee.  I say that because obama will be so battered and bruised from what the GOP has thrown at him, that he will be glad to let Hillary run with the nomination.  That is what comes from crowning yourself king of the hill without any experience or qualifications.

    [ Parent ]
    Me too. (5.00 / 3) (#162)
    by vicsan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:13:16 PM EST
    BO has a rude awakening coming. Hillary used kid gloves on him. The GOP will not be so gracious.

    [ Parent ]
    I've said this before, but a measure of (5.00 / 8) (#74)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:54:53 PM EST
    Obama's weakness as a candidate is how stupid he has turned his supporters. Josh Marshall, Atrios, DH, Aravosis---all blithering, foaming at the mouth idiots now. We saw the same effect with Bush.
    Hillary draws the best out of people, in contrast.

    [ Parent ]
    PS, only BTD has been immune (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:12:28 PM EST
    ---yay BTD!

    [ Parent ]
    I feel for you, Fleet (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by suki on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:23 PM EST
    It was hard to see that site disintegrate - very depressing. It's made me really appreciate this place and a few others. Hang in there.

    [ Parent ]
    Not enough Obama supporters stepped up... (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by citizen53 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:00:07 PM EST
    over there to speak against the hate speech that appeared each and every day.

    The intolerance of dissent in the progressive blogoshere is sad.  So easy to personalize and demonize others.

    It's not just the other side who engages in this conduct, though I was under the impression that we stood for something better.


    [ Parent ]

    Most of the civilized people left (5.00 / 3) (#123)
    by dianem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:06:02 PM EST
    The few who remain are afraid to say anything because they will be troll-rated out of existence. I have stopped even wandering in to peek at what is going on. It's too sad to see supposed progressives acting that way. The freepers are more civilized.

    [ Parent ]
    Ironic... (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by citizen53 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:17:27 PM EST
    that your final remark is even close to the reality.

    But it certainly is.

    [ Parent ]

    Maxine Waters says it all (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Newt on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:40:05 PM EST

    Senator Hillary Clinton has run a superb campaign and has proven to be a hard worker while gaining the support of many key constituencies that will be essential for Democratic success in November.

    It is now time to close ranks and time for all remaining delegates to put their support behind the presumptive nominee, Senator Obama. Senator Obama has run an effective campaign and has overcome many obstacles to create an energy that has brought many new Democrats into the party. Together, both of these candidates have generated an unprecedented involvement in Democratic Party politics. This is something that all Democrats can be proud of.
    Yes, it will be time to gather around (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:42:44 PM EST
    McCain for millions of Hillary supporters.

    [ Parent ]
    Yep, it'll (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by Andy08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:53:12 PM EST
    be a vote against Obama and this DNC that represents only their self-center egotistical selves.

    [ Parent ]
    Egotistic Selves? (3.66 / 3) (#94)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:58:47 PM EST
    You are not sounding so humble yourself..   just sayin....


    [ Parent ]
    Let me know when 2012 starts up (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:09:23 PM EST
    I'm on board and rarin' ta go!!!

    [ Parent ]
    Take It To Red State (3.00 / 2) (#140)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:08:25 PM EST
    TL is not supporting McCain.

    [ Parent ]
    Point Is (1.00 / 1) (#220)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:32:55 PM EST
    That right wing sites are appropriate for supporting McCain, not TL. If that seems dubious to you, than you must have missed this.

    [ Parent ]
    In Your Wingnut Dreams (2.33 / 3) (#23)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:45:36 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Correction: in your Democratic Nightmares... (5.00 / 7) (#29)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:46:58 PM EST
    There will be many of us, life long democrats (and in my case ex-democrat) who will at best not vote for Obama this Nov.

    [ Parent ]
    Hey (1.00 / 1) (#42)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:48:49 PM EST
    One thing we can count on is that things change. The neocons were once Democrats too...

    [ Parent ]
    What the f? (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:49:46 PM EST
    That doesn't even make sense.

    [ Parent ]
    How So? (3.00 / 2) (#62)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:52:27 PM EST
    The fact that things change is inevitable, or that the neocons were once also lifelong Democrats.

    [ Parent ]
    And the progressives were once Republican! (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by MMW on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:50:33 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    So were the neolibs (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by Palomino on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:51:39 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    And they (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Melchizedek on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:57:14 PM EST
    had actual policy differences to pursue as a reason for breaking away. Pursuing McCain's policies on health care, defense, foreign policy, housing, unemployment, terrorism, the executive branch and the separation of powers, reproductive rights, discrimination based on sexual orientation, the environment, education, science, corporate ethics, trade, etc. seems weird, given that Hillary has said repeatedly she and Obama share basic outlooks on those issues.

    But after this campaign Obama has some outreach to do, no question.

    [ Parent ]

    She Did NOT Say... (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by AmyinSC on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:10:13 PM EST
    They were IDENTICAL, though.  Clinton has LONG been a stalwart suppoter of LGBT Rights, fro instance.  Obama?  Not so much.  Abortion Rights?  Clinton, most DEFINITELY.  Obama?  Well, yes, but those progressives just don't realize what a painful decision it is!  (HIS words)  And, I can GUARANTEE you that Clinton NEVER said she wanted to return to the Foreign Policies of George H.W. BUSH!!!!  So, YEAH - that's a big change for a Dem!  ANd you cannot minimize the vast amount of damage done BY OBAMA in terms of sexism.  He is mighty guilty of it, and many of us will NOT forget that come November (unless you think we older women just cannot remember things for that long - you know, being menopausal and all!). Obama did WAY too much damage to the base for many of us to just dismiss.  There are actually consequences to actions.  

    The bottom line is that he is NOT the nominee yet.  Denver is when it all happens.

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry For You (1.00 / 1) (#193)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:41 PM EST
    That you think Hillary is any different than most Politicians. Between those googoo eyed over Obama and Hillary fanatics it seems that many have lost perspective about where we are and who are our choices.

    Oh well, I guess suspension of disbelief is our national pastime, I am just surprised that so many do it with Politicians.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes They Are Both Mainstream Dems (none / 0) (#132)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:19 PM EST
    But, some supporters are basically fanclubbers and care much more about personality than policy. Or it could be that many who naturally leaned to the right attached to Hillary because they thought she was more to the right than she actually is and believed Obama to be more left than he actually is.

    [ Parent ]
    Handing the nomination (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by cloudy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:47:30 PM EST
    to the loser of the popular vote.  Aren't we proud.    

    [ Parent ]
    I'll remember Waters jumping like a rat (none / 0) (#154)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:11:04 PM EST
    from the ship today, when a certain day in November arrives.

    [ Parent ]
    I cannot begin... (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by Liberty4 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:41:44 PM EST
    to express how completely and utterly sad I am at this moment. I know BTD and Jeralyn you both have solidly and unequivically stated that you will support the Democratic nominee, but I do not feel like celebrating... I feel like we have just tipped off the cliff into an abyss...

    Liberty4....don't start planning the funeral (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:44:38 PM EST
    yet!!  There is a convention coming up and nothing is set in stone until then.

    [ Parent ]
    I hope you're right. (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by rnibs on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:19 PM EST
    I feel terrible sadness like Liberty4.

    If Obama is the nominee, I'll respect Jeralyn's wishes and not post anything negative here, but I just can't vote for the man.  I think he represents the wrong way for the Democratic party to be heading.  I always felt good about the party before and I just don't now.  I'll vote Dem downticket, because we'll need a Dems to hold off McCain's stuff, but it's just so sad.  And we could have had such a great president.  

    [ Parent ]

    Don't know how accurate this is..... (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by vml68 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:16:08 PM EST
    I just read that Bob Beckel said on Fox news that a bombshell Obama video will come out tommorrow. Anyone else see that?
    I know this site does not do rumors so Please delete if against the rules.
    I just figured if they actually said it on the news then there is something behind it.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes. I saw that. (5.00 / 1) (#219)
    by vicsan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:32:42 PM EST
    Stay tuned.

    [ Parent ]
    Funny thing is that (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by ghost2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:43:20 PM EST
    I don't know how accurate those estimates are.

    Both CNN and RCP have Texas at 99-94, whereas the caucus results (which are not yet final) were 37-30, and so the final results are: 98-95 (a net difference of 2 delegates).  

    Delegates for Iowa and some other places are not finalized, and as we know Michigan delegates were stolen (to the tune of 55+8 half delegates or 27.5+4 in final numbers).

    This has been the most shameful episode of media choosing an empty suit and forcing him down the throat of a whole nation.

    By the way, if you want Hillary not to concede, contact her campaign and tell them.  

    The TX delegates are not selected-. (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:49:26 PM EST
    In fact, Hillary could end up with a big win there, according to Txpolitico67

    [ Parent ]
    Yeh, every list counts Feingold (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:08:45 PM EST
    as for Obama, although my Senator has repeatedly refused to declare, commit, etc.  None of the lists of delegates, pledged and/or super-delegates, is from an official party source.

    None, nada, zip.  I don't get why any site ought to be believed, as each comes up with different numbers -- even the vaunted RealClearPolitics.com, which has had pledged delegate counts differing from day to day when there have not been primaries and/or state convention results.

    So Obama coronates himself, and RealClearPolitics is the new Ministry of Information.  It's all nonsense -- but we are being the fools in the court to support such sources.

    [ Parent ]

    Again, Hill has won 60% (5.00 / 6) (#18)
    by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:44:02 PM EST
    of the final contests.  Obama, 40%.  I consider Guam a draw.

    HRC:
    OH
    TX
    RI
    PA
    IN
    WV
    KY
    PR
    SD

    BO:
    VT
    WY
    MISS
    NC
    OR
    MT

    This high theater tonight seems odd for a presumptive nominee who has lost the four last months of the primary.  There's something disturbing about all this, speaking only for me.

    Like Bill Cosby's definition of (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:46:53 PM EST
    Academic honor...

    this is a thank you laude win, at best.

    [ Parent ]

    BTD, I'd like a comment on this. (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:55:07 PM EST
    Come on, look at this list.  What do you think of nominting the guy who peaked in February?

    [ Parent ]
    I'm betting (none / 0) (#170)
    by cawaltz on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:14:34 PM EST
    BTD doesn't answer because BTD is in GE mode already.

    [ Parent ]
    Jumping Off (none / 0) (#174)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:21 PM EST
    your very-valid point about peaking in February...

    Now if Wrightgate, Bittergate, Proudgate, and Pflegergate had come after NH, SC or NV, we'd be in a totally different place right now.

    But of course, when these issues peaked, the Obama surrogates and supporters were already high and drunk on the Kool-aid and the spin-machine was running in high gear.

    [ Parent ]

    VERY DISTURBING. (none / 0) (#180)
    by vicsan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:58 PM EST
    The MSM, DC elites and the DNC chose BO. We had nothing to do with it.

    [ Parent ]
    Hey (none / 0) (#189)
    by cawaltz on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:02 PM EST
    I'm pretty proud of that fact thank you very much. ;)

    [ Parent ]
    The media with its analysis... (5.00 / 0) (#19)
    by citizen53 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:44:28 PM EST
    no thanks.

    All this technology around us, and on many of the most important matters, we have gone backwards.

    A country with any real ability to think, and not be told, would not have re-elected Bush in 2004.

    A great argument can be made that 2008 will be an example of how things are getting even worse.

    Obama is better than McCain.  But look at how we have gotten Obama, or almost Clinton.

    A campaign devoid of issues and policy.  Anything but.  The American way of 2008.

    To be fair... (none / 0) (#105)
    by Y Knot on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:00:38 PM EST
    ...I think we got a lot chances to look at the candidates policies early on in this process (it has been going on for almost two years now!).  This whole primary process was remarkably civil and substantive up until -- and I'm going by memory -- say February.  It's really only been the past three months that have been ugly and vapid, and even that is tepid compared to the scumfest(tm) we were put through in 2004.

    The media as it exists today, will always go for the cheap, hot, sexy story over the issues.  Always.  We know the Republicans will go for them, because they can't win on the issues.

    We have to be ready for it, and use the technology available to us to shout them down.  If we want substance, we're going to have to demand it.

    [ Parent ]

    Rachel Maddow says Hillary Clinton now has (5.00 / 5) (#22)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:45:16 PM EST
    zero leverage in the Democratic Party. I'll bet 17 million people disagree. I seriously doubt I'll vote for him. Sorry to let you down andgarden, BTD and Steve, three of my favortie guys. I just don't see how I can do it.

    Exactly. She wins final fourt months (5.00 / 5) (#26)
    by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:46:31 PM EST
    of a protracted primary, wins the pop vote, and has no leverage?  WTH are these people?

    [ Parent ]
    Because Edwards has 0 leverage (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:47:20 PM EST
    after losing the nomination....twice!

    [ Parent ]
    Time to announce (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:47:54 PM EST
    her independent run.  If she has no leverage in the D's, what does she have to lose?

    [ Parent ]
    My respect (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:49:09 PM EST
    She won't do it anyway.

    [ Parent ]
    Why in the world (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:51:25 PM EST
    would she lose your respect if she turned her back on a party that loathes her?

    [ Parent ]
    Because she promised that she would support (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:52:33 PM EST
    the nominee. I still expect she will, so it's not a real worry.

    [ Parent ]
    Have you gone off the rails? (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by MMW on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:45 PM EST
    Why is it that everyone wants to hold Clinton to every word she's ever uttered but its okay for Obama to twist, turn and do nothing?

    I'm waiting calmly for whatever comes firm in my resolve, that I will not sanction what was done in this primary. I'm off the ARRRSE.

    [ Parent ]

    Because party loyalty matters to me (none / 0) (#107)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:01:39 PM EST
    If I had thought there was any chance of Hillary not supporting the Democratic nominee, I would not have voted for her in April. It's a non-negotiable issue as far as I'm concerned.

    [ Parent ]
    If party loyalty mattered to you (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:12:59 PM EST
    you'd realize she has gotten very little and would concede that she doesn't owe them anything.

    Don't be such an authoritarian follower.  Party loyalty is a silly concept.  That's one step behind cultist.

    [ Parent ]

    Whatever (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:14:59 PM EST
    I am delighted that Hillary does not agree with you.

    [ Parent ]
    I haven't seen much party loyalty toward (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:00 PM EST
    Hillary.  They have screwed her over every which way to Sunday.  Someone posted earlier they thought she could win in a three-way race....I believe that is correct.  Would Bill be able to run as her VP?  :)

    [ Parent ]
    Party loyalty? (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by MMW on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:30 PM EST
    This isn't a club. YOU ELECT THEM, THEY WORK FOR YOU. Act like it. Expect them to do their jobs.
    Insist they do their jobs. Don't just rollover. How do you expect to change anything? Tell me, what do you see him accomplishing that you want to see happen?

    Or is this just the superbowl? Where you're just happy your team won.

    [ Parent ]

    Politics is a team sport (none / 0) (#201)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:19:57 PM EST
    Sorry.

    [ Parent ]
    Hm, I think party loyalty (none / 0) (#222)
    by Boo Radly on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:36:28 PM EST
    goes both ways. I think Bill Clinton - the only two term Democratic President in fifty years owes the party nothing at this point.

    I really can't understand how anyone could use that as a reason to burden these two - Hillary and Bill with the chore of shoring up BO. I like my candidates strong and worthy - really cuts down on the "work" - know what I mean?

    If you are feeling bad about that vote for Hillary now, well, BO has been given some much that he did not earn - take it out of those so you don't feel so cheated. Gawd forbid anyone feel cheated.

    [ Parent ]

    she can support the dem nominee (5.00 / 0) (#92)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:57:53 PM EST
    and still run against him.

    [ Parent ]
    Nonsense (none / 0) (#112)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:02:46 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I agree with (5.00 / 0) (#141)
    by dk on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:08:26 PM EST
    Andgarden that we need leaders like Hillary to stay in the party and fight the good fight.  We need people there to strive to keep the party on the right track, and not let Obama ruin it completely.

    The question I'm still wrestling with is what we, as simple voters, should do.  Should we vote for Obama in November, and hope that the long term damage he will do to the party isn't too great.  Or, do we opt out in this election and hope he loses so that he gets discredited sooner rather than later (and we teach the village and the media a lesson in how we feel about their toxic CDS and misogyny).  I'm leaning toward the latter at this point, but I'll keep an open mind.

    [ Parent ]

    Of course she will. (none / 0) (#82)
    by sweetthings on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:20 PM EST
    Clinton is a professional politician and a solid gold Democrat. Everything she wants to see accomplished in this country is easier done with President Obama than President McCain. I have no doubt she'll do whatever she can to make sure the Dems reclaim the White House this year...even accept the VP slot, if the Powers That Be will it.

    [ Parent ]
    LOL! (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:52:03 PM EST
    Your respect and $2.00 will get her a cup of coffee.

    Few have shown HER any respect. Why does she owe the Democrats anything.

    Tell me one reason why.

    [ Parent ]

    Self Respect (none / 0) (#133)
    by dianem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:22 PM EST
    She has said that she would support Obama if he is the candidate. She is an honorable person who will not go back on her word.

    [ Parent ]
    AS the nominee of PUMA. (5.00 / 0) (#106)
    by ghost2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:01:25 PM EST
    I love that!  Riverdaughter kicks ass.

    for those not reading The Confluence (and missing a lot!), PUMA stands for Party Unity My Ass un-party.  

    [ Parent ]

    Why are you listening to these people? (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:48:21 PM EST
    Maddow is not only toxic, she's wrong. Ted Kennedy, with far fewer delegates, was modifying the platform all the way up to the convention.

    [ Parent ]
    I switched to the other hate site, CNN. Bad but (none / 0) (#60)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:52:18 PM EST
    not as bad. I just wanted to see if in victory, could they show a little bit of class. No, none.

    Per SD closed primary, only 60% will support Obama. This is bad andgarden.

    [ Parent ]

    Do yourselves a favor (5.00 / 0) (#117)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:04:54 PM EST
    turn on Fox. They hate both democrats equally, so at least it's fair coverage.  

    Jack Cafferty makes me sick.  What a miserable f***.  

    [ Parent ]

    Jack Cafferty (5.00 / 0) (#134)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:28 PM EST
    he should get an a** of the day award. He has been awful, when he comes on I switch to fox.

    [ Parent ]
    Only 60 percent of Dems... (none / 0) (#116)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:04:49 PM EST
    ...will vote for Obama if he's the nominee?

    Holy moly, the numbers of Dems committed to not voting for him in many states is at a dangerous level for the party.

    [ Parent ]

    I have yet (none / 0) (#225)
    by Grace on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:44:45 PM EST
    to meet anyone who plans to vote for Obama in the General Election.  Even my dad, who voted for him in the Primary, changed his mind when all the Reverend Wright videos came out.  

    However!  I do believe I've seen a house a few miles away that had a yard sign!  

    [ Parent ]

    Rachel doesn't get to (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:48:33 PM EST
    decide anything. She is usually not prone to such over the top statements. It is dumb to suggest Clinton has no leverage and she knows that...

    [ Parent ]
    She has LOTS of leverage, which is (5.00 / 4) (#41)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:48:34 PM EST
    exactly why they are trying to force her out.
    I think if Hillary stays in she has an excellent chance of winning the nomination. Obama's support is too shallow.

    [ Parent ]
    Lucky for us Maddow lost any pretense of (5.00 / 6) (#49)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:50:00 PM EST
    credibility months ago. If MSNBC says the sun is shining, I check the window.

    [ Parent ]
    LOL! (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by ChiTownDenny on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:53:53 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Rachel Maddow is one of the pundits who now (5.00 / 4) (#61)
    by kempis on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:52:22 PM EST
    has zero credibility with about 17 million people.

    [ Parent ]
    Maddow has proven... (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by AX10 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:53:00 PM EST
    herself to be no better than the other mediashills.
    There is nothing special about her.
    Obama's people will learn the hard way that dancing on Hillary's grave will come back to haunt them on November 4th.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by standingup on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:17 PM EST
    Well the Democratic record of winning presidential elections is nothing to write home about either Rachel.  

    [ Parent ]
    Well (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:00:11 PM EST
    Personally I do not lobby anyone.  Just because I'm willing to be a big ol' sucker for the Democratic Party doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

    We'll see what happens by November.  I might feel differently, you might feel differently.  A lot can change.  One thing I've gained from reading this site is that I feel I really, truly understand where people on all sides of this debate are coming from.

    [ Parent ]

    yeah, a lot can change Steve. I've never even (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:44 PM EST
    held my nose to vote before. I liked them all. I guess I'm coming at this from the granddaughter of a woman that had me at the polls at the age of eight handing out cards for every Democrat running. From a big brother who worked for Clinton's and Gore's campaign who died at 42 and who loved them. We have hand written condolences from them. They mean more to me than winning in November right now. I should be ashamed, but right now, I can't be.

    [ Parent ]
    Ridiculous (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:05:29 PM EST
    Given Obama's anemic crawl across the 'finish line', he's going to need her enthusiastic, genuine support to win in November.  She has all the leverage in the world.

    [ Parent ]
    Rachel Maddow? (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by OxyCon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:16:29 PM EST
    Isn't she that brilliant "Rhodes Scholar" who said that when Obama was flicking the dirt off his shoulders, it wasn't misogynistic, he was simply doing some really cool rap dance moves...even though the song and the artist referenced by Obama's "really cool rap moves" are extremely vile and misogynistic?

    Talk about being totally clueless! Or is that willfully ignorant?


    [ Parent ]

    And Rachel Maddow (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by vicsan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:54 PM EST
    has zero credibility now. I can't believe how much I use to love her. Everyone I liked in the media is a BO supporter. It's all so surreal.

    [ Parent ]
    How does Rachel (none / 0) (#38)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:48:24 PM EST
    figure this?

    [ Parent ]
    Well that is (none / 0) (#204)
    by PlayInPeoria on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:20:58 PM EST
    what this is going to become... zero leverage for the Clintons in the Dem Party.

    But Sen Clinton has class... she will continue doing everything she can for the Dem Party..... including taking the VP if offered.

    (I do not see her being offered the VP)

    [ Parent ]

    That's just nonsense (none / 0) (#214)
    by Y Knot on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:26:19 PM EST
    Clinton has an enormous amount of leverage right now.   Not enough to be the nominee, but probably enough to get just about any position she wants, or gain big concessions from the Obama camp.

    Which is how it should be.  She's done a phenomenal job gaining support for herself.  She deserves a great deal of credit for what she's done.

    [ Parent ]

    Holy SD and MT batman (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by karen for Clinton on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:47:05 PM EST
    What a load of crap.

    Fer cryin' out loud.

    Hillary go get them all and teach them some ethics and some manners.

    This makes BTD's thread about how to handle it a moot point.

    Straight for the throat.

    Stunning arrogance and timing too.

    Voter suppression just like the RBC.

    Revenge is not merely a dish to be served cold (5.00 / 2) (#208)
    by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:22:47 PM EST
    But deep ruby gelato with Framboise, creme fraiche and a cherry on top.

    Sen Clinton stays in it, even if suspending her campaign, even while awaiting the official sanctioning of the Dem nominee.

    TeamO had better enjoy the latest premature endzone dance because a nano-second afterwards they're slated to be tube-fed a dumptruck of what they've been dishing out by the creeps who invented modern day dirty pool.

    Obama did promise to make Unity with these guys, and guess what?

    They're heeeeeeeerrrrre ...

    [ Parent ]

    An Obama Contradiction (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by OxyCon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:49:03 PM EST
    If you've noticed, as I have, whenever someone endorses Obama, they always repeat the same canned phrase "I support Obama because of his unique ability to unite the country".

    Like this:

    "Today, Congresswoman Maxine Waters (D-CA) endorsed Barack Obama for President. Waters switched her endorsement from Clinton to Obama citing his ability to unite the country and leadership on issues such as the housing crisis and war in Iraq."

    Yet, the Obama campaign and most of his supporters are saying that it is all up to Hillary to unite the country.

    If this is true, that a candidate's ability to unite the country" is the number one reason to support someone, then it sure looks to me like the Obama campaign and his supporters think that person should be Hillary Clinton.

    I know (5.00 / 0) (#71)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:54:01 PM EST
    Wasn't Maxine the one who said something like, "Hope doesn't put food on your family"  (Yeah, I'm deliberately mixing it up with Bush).

    The Democratic politicians are everything the Republicans say they are. LOL.

    [ Parent ]

    He isn't even able to unite (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:58:40 PM EST
    the party, HTF is he going to unite the country?  

    [ Parent ]
    I never thought I would say this, but it (none / 0) (#90)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:57:26 PM EST
    appears Maxine Waters has lost her freakin' mind!!
    They can crossover re-crossover, crossover again and it doesn't mean a damn thing until the convension.

    [ Parent ]
    I'd hate to imagine the pressure Maxine Waters (5.00 / 0) (#142)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:08:43 PM EST
    is getting right now... imagine the phone call:

    'Hold for Speaker Pelosi, please...

    "Maxine, Hi! How are you! I just wanted to let you know, if you want any legislation to make it to the floor this session or next, you'd better come to a decision. We need a unified party right now.

    No, I'm not threatening you, but you know how many bills are introduced... and those high positions, committee chairs and such, well, there are LOTS of qualified CO-OPERATIVE representatives... some might have more seniority and be considered by the leadership more qualified on the INTANGIBLES, you know.

    Well, you're free to support qhomever you want, Maxine. Just remember, there are good reasons for unity, thought."

    Just my imagination, I'm sure.

    [ Parent ]

    exactly! (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by Josey on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:17:58 PM EST
    the elite DC establishment supporting Obama has more incentives to offer Congressional SDs to endorse Obama. More earmarks, upgraded committee assignments, etc.
    But NBC had to deceive the world tonight - "a little skinny kid (they didn't say 'with a funny name') took down the Clinton machine" - as if a newly elected senator would begin plotting a presidential run without the backing of the Establishment.
    The Establishment propped up Obama and has worked longggg and hard to keep Hillary off the ticket.
    I'm glad she mentioned something about being VP nominee cause it puts the Establishment in a bind to say 'no' - and she probably knows they will.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#153)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:10:45 PM EST
    I don't think the man or woman has been born who can strong-arm Maxine Waters.

    [ Parent ]
    Everybody has their price (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by dianem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:19:16 PM EST
    She has to have been under extreme pressure to support Obama. It may not have been for personal political gain. She may have simply been convinced that if she didn't support Obama then her black constituents would be hurt. I've heard that Jackson has been threatening black superdelegates with primary challenges if they don't support Obama. Given the standards for this campaign, it would not surprise me.

    [ Parent ]
    Maxime Waters (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Andy08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:49:29 PM EST
    an ardent Clinton supporter from CA has switched to Obama.
    The pressure AA SD have had has been shameful. It seems that is
    what Hillary was asking Obama to stop in their 2 1/2 min. phone conversation.  

    Well... good luck DNC.   Your are on your own.

    It's all because of thuggery (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by OxyCon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:05:14 PM EST
    The AAs that supported Hillary have to jump ship in order to save their own careers because of the thuggish tactics of the "newkindpolitics". Now that it appears that Obama will be coronated regardless, it's time for Hillary's AA supporters to get out while the goings good.

    [ Parent ]
    I feel the same way when... (5.00 / 3) (#131)
    by stefystef on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:13 PM EST
    I heard Maxine made the flip.

    Watching the Democratic Party rally around the wrong candidate yet AGAIN makes me realize that I need to leave the Democratic Party.

    Good luck Obama followers.  You just lost 50% of the Party.

    [ Parent ]

    she probably got a call... (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:09:05 PM EST
    ...from Jesse Jackson Jr. threatening her with a well-funded primary opponent if she didn't cave.

    [ Parent ]
    Yep, chicago rules. (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:14:00 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Choosing McCain (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by lgm on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:49:53 PM EST
    John McCain is not great for women.  He's very conservative -- opposing abortion and workplace fairness.  He's anti worker.  He wants to extend and deepen the Bush tax cuts for the rich.  He wants to bomb and invade countries (Iran, Syria, ...).  He wants more Supreme Court justices like Scalia.  It's not clear why anyone remotely interested in Clinton would vote for McCain.

    Voting for McCain (5.00 / 7) (#79)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:06 PM EST
    is more about righting the Democratic sinking ship, rather than endorsing McCain.

    We don't want the party to become the party of latte liberls and AA's and screw the little guy.  If Obama wins, that's where it will go.

    If Obama loses, the party leadership is purged and maybe replaced with others who understand why we're (we WERE) Democrats.

    And I know about Supreme Court picks.  Someone will have to walk down to the Congress and show little Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi which category of the life tree they fall within -- the vertebrates!

    [ Parent ]

    The Vertebrate Party! (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:11:45 PM EST
    Let's vote for them.

    [ Parent ]
    African Americans... (1.00 / 0) (#152)
    by brad12345 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:10:31 PM EST
    ...aren't the little guy?
    We don't want the party to become the party of latte liberls and AA's and screw the little guy.

    [ Parent ]
    Well, ya know (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by vicsan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:10:03 PM EST
    maybe the 20-something BO supporters should have thought about Roe v. Wade before they supported BO. They could have supported a woman who has spent her entire life fighting for women's rights and they chose not to. Their loss because I am tired of having that wedge issue thrown in my face as a way to get my vote. I don't care about R v. W anymore.

    As for the other issues? Oh well! You'll just have to live with the results of choosing a losing candidate over one that could blow McCain out of the water! That will be a lessoned learned, right?

    You had a choice and you made it and now you get to live with that choice...as bad as it is.

    [ Parent ]

    Leaving aside Clinton's many male supporters... (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:11:50 PM EST
    ...why don't you start making the case in the positive for your own candidate?

    Encouraging him to put up a web page on his site for women's issues would be a good start (and one I fully expect him to make once the Pander Drive takes hold).

    [ Parent ]

    I believe he has (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:21 PM EST
    A week or two ago I think I saw a diary on MyDD indicating that he had finally, after being urged repeatedly to do so, put up a page specifically regarding women's issues.

    The response from the Obama supporters was, I hate to say, the kind of freaky thing that fuels the cultist meme.  "Look how responsive he is to criticism!"  "Won't it be wonderful to have a President who listens to people again?"  On and on and on...

    [ Parent ]

    I'm not voting for McCain (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by RonK Seattle on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:24 PM EST
    I'm voting against Obama (IF that's the choice in November).

    [ Parent ]