home

Blogcloggers : Open Thread

Courtesy of TL reader Cream City, we have a new name for the recent influx of visitors who are clogging up the threads with multiple comments in an attempt to dominate, hijack or otherwise disrupt the conversation: Blogcloggers.

Blogcloggers are not welcome here. New users are limited to 10 comments in 24 hours and they must abide by our comment rules. More below, but if you don't like the policy, as the song says, Get Over It.

Drive-by snipers and blogcloggers will be erased, so don't waste your time. Once banned, they cannot come back under another name.

Regular readers should ignore them and point them out by name as a site violator.

This is an open thread.

Comments now closed.

< How About Clark? | Sen. Salazar: Senators Didn't Agree on Endorsement >
  • Premium Ads

  • Blog Ads

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

    donate to TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Blogcloggers? Cream City is awesome! (5.00 / 8) (#1)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:04:33 PM EST


    <blush> Nah. Well, yeh -- (5.00 / 20) (#9)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:10:57 PM EST
    my city from which I took my screen name, and where I've been out and about for hours along our lovely Great Lake and shopping and bopping in our newest reborn neighborhood, and stopping for our home-brewed root beer and cream soda here -- yeh, my city is awesome.  But not me.  

    Awesome?  That would be our -- wait for it, a public relations term -- "blogfloggers" here, TL/Jeralyn and BTD/Armando.

    TalkLeft is the best blog there is.  Flog it, folks!

    [ Parent ]

    I predict (5.00 / 8) (#18)
    by Iphie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:20:23 PM EST
    "blogclogging" is going big. You've coined a good one.

    [ Parent ]
    Copyright it, girl. (5.00 / 5) (#78)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:47:21 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    trademark (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by DFLer on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:52:00 PM EST
    doncha think? can't © a title

    [ Parent ]
    way to go Cream great name for them (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by athyrio on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:08:36 PM EST
    and it ain't over till the fat lady sings and my old mare in the pasture can't sing lol.....

    DNC RBC mbr David McDonald now 'out' for Obama (5.00 / 13) (#5)
    by RonK Seattle on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:09:31 PM EST
    Statement here.

    IMO, feigned neutrality is worse than no neutrality at all.


    Obamans were a majority of RBC members (5.00 / 10) (#24)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:26:09 PM EST
    by far, according to a very knowledgeable observer there who just sent her account to longtime admirers of her work as an activist in the modern women's movement and as its chronicler.  Her coverage of conventions from a political scientist's and feminist's viewpoint has been so helpful to have, over the years.  

    So her coverage of the RBC meeting is another useful read, and Jo Freeman will have her account of the RBC meeting up on her website soon, she says.  But you can go to it now to read about her books, to find her earlier reportage and analyses, etc., to see a great collection of feminist political memorabilia, and then bookmark that site for later -- and see also this site (and surf it for other reads by women authors of a certain age:-).

    Together with the fine live-blogging at the meeting site by this site's BackFromOhio as well as from the tv screen by TL and BTD, there is an interesting body of contemporaneous knowledge being built about the day that the Dem Party died.  Or at least, the day it lost its soul.  And without that, why belong to the Dems rather than the soulless GOP?  That's where I am now.  I will be fascinated to see where Freeman and others arrive.

     

    [ Parent ]

    Lost its soul (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by Practically Lactating on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:31:28 PM EST
    Or at least, the day it lost its soul.

    Has the Dem party just recently lost its soul or has this debacle just made me aware of what was already occuring? This is a question that I have been contemplating, but not with too much zest because I suppose the end result is the same. Opinion on the matter?

    [ Parent ]

    Soul was gone long ago (5.00 / 16) (#46)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:36:45 PM EST
    just had the wake on Saturday and the burial is scheduled for November.

    [ Parent ]
    What I haven't read (5.00 / 2) (#255)
    by Redshoes on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:01:58 PM EST
    I'm sure someone else has covered this but since it is the Kennedy-Kerry-Dodd faction of the party that is intent on moving the party away from the working and diminishing middle-classes (its historic base) could it be that they know that we as a nation have turned a corner is this is the way to ensure the privileged of the party retain some power as the nation further concentrates between those who have and those who drone for those who have?  What's interesting to me particularly about the Massachusetts-Chicago connection is that by hand-picking BHO have they setup another puppet -- albeit a more articulate one than Bush but still very much dependent on TPTB?  

    I'm underwhelmed by BHO leadership.  I think BHO's handling of the speeches that has emerged from Trinity's pulpit shows he's tone deaf and missing an essential quality.  It's not so much that American's want someone to drink a beer with but they do want a President who shares their value --  and these tapes should offend.  Just heard Bill Clinton's remarks and concur.  VF may paint him as an angry old man but it's justified here.

    Quote:  "It's part of the national media's attempt to nail Hillary for Obama. It's the most biased press coverage in history. It's another way of helping Obama. They had all these people standing up in this church cheering, calling Hillary a white racist, and he didn't do anything about it. The first day he said `Ah, ah, ah well.' Because that's what they do- he gets other people to slime her. So then they saw the movie, they thought this is a great ad for John McCain -- maybe I better quit the church. It's all politics. It's all about the bias of the media for Obama. Don't think anything about it"  End Quote

    Disclaimer: former John & Elizabeth Edwards support, now in the tank for Hill & Bill but will vote for democratic nominee in the fall.

    [ Parent ]

    Pushing Casey for Congress (5.00 / 6) (#66)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:42:44 PM EST
    started me seriously wondering whether to stay a Dem, when the party pushes -- and not in a Southern state -- such a faux Dem who actively stands against some of the party's most distinctive core principles.  But even before that, some of my own Senator Feingold's votes for Bush nominees caused me serious concern, if Feingold is supposed to be the "progressive" standard-bearer in the Dem party.  And, of course, the behavior of Dem Party leaders throughout the Bush tenure and the Iraq War has been pathetic.

    But then, my other Senator, Kohl, had me throwing things at the tv screen 'way back in 1992, when he and other Dems did nothing, nothing to stop the demeaning of Dr. Anita Hill.  It was but prologue for what we have seen now, 16 years later.  The old boyz have not learned any new tricks, while the world -- and the majority of the party, women -- apparently have passed them by, and now we know it.

    So the Dem Party has been on a long, slow slide into "petty evil," as it has been termed so well -- the sort of incremental selling of the soul that cannot be seen clearly until too late.  

    [ Parent ]

    Cream City, you can tell me if I'm overreacting (5.00 / 9) (#88)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:50:30 PM EST
    Saturday when they kept mentioning that James Roosevelt is FDR's grandson - would it have killed someone to mention that he is Eleanor's grandson too?

    Seemed to me it would have been appropriate given her place in the party, and that Hillary is a former first lady and Eleanor is her idol.

    if the party lost its soul it may have been in the disappearring of Eleanor Roosevelt.

    [ Parent ]

    I thought exactly the same thing (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:10:46 PM EST
    and posted a paean to ER here in a comment that day -- to the woman whom Clinton (and I) holds as a role model not only in politics but in so much in life.  Have you read the Blanche Wiesen Cook bios?  Even before those, I read some ER bio (as well as her autobios) that endeared her to me forever.  So years ago, when Clinton talked about ER, I understood her admiration entirely -- and Clinton's perceptive read of ER and of history made me admire Clinton more.

    [ Parent ]
    Cream, you work in academia (5.00 / 4) (#173)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:17:37 PM EST
    Someone needs to do some kind of history of the women who united around Hillary.  Either oral or written.  Maybe we can all start a web page, where we control the content, and receive submissions.  A living history.  Either videos, posts, or audio.  That would be so cool.  

    [ Parent ]
    I think you can bet on it (5.00 / 1) (#234)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:46:56 PM EST
    and I think one may already be in the writing, as a book about the campaign is underway by a fine woman scholar whom I heard speak a few months ago, and she seemed quite savvy to the misogyny we have witnessed even before it got so much worse.  However, whether she can or will be equipped to pull together accounts from across the country is a question.  

    Your idea is, therefore, terrific to create a motherlode (:-) for scholars -- as similar use of websites has meant creation of contemporaneous records of the social history of the destruction of New Orleans, for example.  It would be good to see if one of the new groups that have sprung up, such as PUMA, WomenUnited, etc., could set up such a site, one site, to send participants to write their accounts.  (Not just blog-style comments but in-depth accounts.)  And/or someone like Jo Freeman (see links above) and the senior women writers might be interested.  

    But again, something already may be in the works, and I may know more when I get to some conferences soon this summer.  You can bet I'll post about if if I hear anything along these lines, Stellaa.  

    [ Parent ]

    I wonder how Eleanor would feel (5.00 / 1) (#260)
    by Boston Boomer on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:08:06 PM EST
    about her grandson being head of a huge HMO (Tufts Health Plan) and supporting a candidate like Obama who has already made sure there will be no universal health care in the the US?  Not to mention a candidate with two advisors who are pushing for privatization of social security.


    [ Parent ]
    Good to know (none / 0) (#185)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:20:37 PM EST
    Sorry I missed your post on the subject.  I was in and out all day and missed a lot.

    I have not read the Blanche Wiesen Cook bios.  I just looked them up on Amazon and I'll put them on my (too long) list. I have only read one or two about ER - maybe it was that "Eleanor and Franklin" that was so popular a while back, and then another one on Eleanor.  Such a fascinating, caring, effective person, easy to see where Hillary gets some inspiration for her strength.

    [ Parent ]

    Enjoy! And I think the first I read (none / 0) (#221)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:36:19 PM EST
    might have been Lash's Eleanor and Franklin -- it's so good that it got me started, as his love and admiration for his mentor ER came through but without biasing his work, I thought.  That made it one of those good reads I've read again.

    [ Parent ]
    Great (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by tek on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:53:36 PM EST
    post.  Very informative.

    [ Parent ]
    cx: Hill-Thomas hearings in 1991 (5.00 / 6) (#140)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:06:45 PM EST
    sorry for typo.  Of course, it's so easy to recall the chronology correctly, since the answer to our anger than was the Dems' much-vaunted "Year of the Woman" in 1992.  Well, it got us our first state ever to have two woman Senators at the same time -- and they're still there, the great Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein -- but other than that . . . pffft.

    In my state, that's when Feingold got elected . . . but five women trying for Congress went down the tubes, again, in a state where women had been running for Congress since 1924 -- but I stuck with it and fought for better in the last state with a woman in Congress, at last, in 1999.  But not with the help of the Dem boyz.  Still, they behaved themselves in public pretty well.

    Now, after 16 years since the Hill-Thomas hearings, and with what we've seen this year in a new low even for Dem, it's past time to leave this abusive political relationship.  And it's been coming on for so long that I won't even need to read books with titles like Women Who Donate Too Much.


    [ Parent ]

    "Women who donate too much.." (5.00 / 3) (#165)
    by Radiowalla on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:14:02 PM EST
    Cream City, this is beyond superb.

    Please be advised of the following:

    (1) You are wonderful!
    (2) I believe Anita.
    (3) Feingold voted Ashcroft out of the Judiciary Committe, thus singlehandedly allowing for his confirmation by the senate (no doubt you are aware of this)
    (4) I registered as an independent today.

    Here's a woman who won't be donating until the Democratic Party totally revises its primary election procedures.

    Over and out.

    [ Parent ]

    Feingold's Ashcroft vote is when (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:22:46 PM EST
    my spouse and I stopped donating to him -- and raised heck about it with him in a series of calls and letters.  The replies were underwhelming.  I know, I know, he's a progressive god to a lot of people.  But we know how he got into office in the first place.  And he doesn't bring anything much back to Wisconsin, where we're so low on the list for payback considering how highly taxed we are and how our economy and thus educational system have  been suffering since the Rustbelt '80s.

    Still, if he wasn't that good for the state, for us it was like our beloved Proxmire and Nelson as being good for the country.  But then came the Ashcroft vote, and it hasn't been the same since.

    [ Parent ]

    On my to do list: (5.00 / 2) (#202)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:27:04 PM EST
    Figure out how to stop the automatic monthly DNC donations I foolishly agreed to by phone last year. It's not a lot, but I'm done.  That money can be better donated elsewhere.

    [ Parent ]
    A simple phone call (5.00 / 2) (#224)
    by suisser on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:37:16 PM EST
    should do it. That's how I divorced NPR, and I've felt lighter ever since   ;-)

    [ Parent ]
    that would be a good title for (5.00 / 0) (#188)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:22:01 PM EST
    a book about all this.

    [ Parent ]
    I have it on good authority (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Eleanor A on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:45:42 PM EST
    that the Saturday decision was actually made via conference call last Wednesday night, in an increasingly flagrant violation of the sunshine laws of the RBC.

    Any interested parties can email me - e l e a n o r a _ 2 0 0 8 @ y a h 0 0 . c o m

    [ Parent ]

    Eleanor A (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by DFLer on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:00:14 PM EST
    underscore must be removed from your addy, right? Since you posted it on your bio, the underscore is to protect from spamspiders, right?

    (doesn't go thru as posted for me)

    [ Parent ]

    Nope (none / 0) (#135)
    by Eleanor A on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:05:52 PM EST
    Leave the underscore in.  Just take out the spaces (and change the zeroes to o's).

    [ Parent ]
    aha (none / 0) (#158)
    by DFLer on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:12:34 PM EST
    thanks....din't notice the zero/o's thang.

    [ Parent ]
    I was there, too. (5.00 / 7) (#111)
    by Iphie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:57:02 PM EST
    I was there, too. (I blogged about it over at correntewire.) It's one thing to see the bullying on the blogs, it was different thing, indeed, to experience it in person.

    Remember when Hillary was on Jon Stewart a few months ago? She was on via satellite from TX. She invited Jon Stewart to join her on the trail where he could make fun of her in person. He demurred, commenting that it's much harder to mock someone in person when you can actually see that they are a human being. Well, the Obama supporters that I encountered had no such reservations.

    [ Parent ]

    That's depressing. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:13:09 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Two of the members of the RBC (4.88 / 9) (#43)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:35:15 PM EST
    were on Lou Dobbs tonight and he was raking them over the coals for their disenfranchisment of voters, considering that this year is the closest election of all time. They punted and said they did the best they could!!! Wasn't the best for me!!

    [ Parent ]
    I Saw That (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by JimWash08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:39:36 PM EST
    And 'loved' how the guy/Obama supporter hee-hawed over the question of why the revotes didn't take place?

    Mame Reiley/Clinton supporter was being diplomatic, but she saved the day when she said she would have liked a revote to take place.

    I've never liked Lou Dobbs, but during this season, he's been one of the few I can tolerate watching all the way through.

    [ Parent ]

    he can heehaw all he likes and be (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:25:03 PM EST
    smug, however as the song says the "day of reckoning will come".

    [ Parent ]
    Did you hear when he read an email (5.00 / 6) (#58)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:40:46 PM EST
    from a viewer saying they were going indie and they wanted Hillary to run indie, Lou said he had received many that said the same?

    [ Parent ]
    Don't go Indie, go PUMA. Riverdaughter has a (5.00 / 5) (#115)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:58:02 PM EST
    call out to join the PUMA party. Do it. You'll feel better.  

    I'd link to the post but I am am computer illiterate. I've got no blognoggin!

    [ Parent ]

    Here ya go. (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by Iphie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:06:35 PM EST
    PUMA

    [ Parent ]
    BTW (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:09:25 PM EST
    I recommend to everyone that they read Iphie's piece at Corrente.  Could you post a link Iphie?

    [ Parent ]
    Two posts are (5.00 / 3) (#174)
    by Iphie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:17:52 PM EST
    here and here.

    [ Parent ]
    Nice Posts (none / 0) (#250)
    by Jane in CA on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:59:24 PM EST
    I very much enjoyed reading them. Thank you.

    [ Parent ]
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by Steve M on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:27:54 PM EST
    That's quite a post by Iphie.

    I asked my wife, "Are you guys ever going to let us elect a man again?"  I think she is taking it under advisement.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh, I'm glad you linked that. I loved reading the (none / 0) (#196)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:24:37 PM EST
    comments as much as the post.

    [ Parent ]
    Blognogging! Love it. (5.00 / 4) (#160)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:13:12 PM EST
    And after our nightly rest, when we get up and don our regular gear -- sweats, p.j.'s, whatever -- for getting onto TL, are we . . . blogtogging? :-)

    [ Parent ]
    HA! How about jumping from blog to blog? (5.00 / 4) (#171)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:16:15 PM EST
    Blogfrogging!

    [ Parent ]
    email lou dobbs about it. he'll give it (5.00 / 0) (#206)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:27:46 PM EST
    air time. that's scare the dnc.

    [ Parent ]
    My Mama told me that was cheatin' (5.00 / 17) (#65)
    by OxyCon on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:42:21 PM EST
    Goin' on CNN and acting like you are neutral the whole time you are advocating for your candidate is cheatin' too!

    [ Parent ]
    My mama told me it was cheating (5.00 / 11) (#73)
    by angie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:45:38 PM EST
    to take things you didn't earn, too -- and I'll put my mama up against Brazile's any day of the week.

    [ Parent ]
    Hey, it was breaking news today (5.00 / 5) (#68)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:44:05 PM EST
    that Jim Clyborn came out today for...okay, wait for it....tada!!!! Obama! And it said, Breaking News.

    [ Parent ]
    I like your new sig n/t (none / 0) (#123)
    by Coldblue on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:01:58 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Wierd (5.00 / 0) (#6)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:09:32 PM EST
    I just thought, wow, it's time to go watch Keith!

    ...but I don't watch Keith anymore.  

    The brain circuits just don't always work properly I guess.  The old habits die hard.


    I don't watch KO anymore but (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:27:18 PM EST
    caught the opening tonight and he said, "one more day 'till our nightmare is over."  That's when I turned the channel.

    [ Parent ]
    I'd venture to say (5.00 / 15) (#33)
    by k on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:32:39 PM EST
    that if Obama is the nominee the nightmare has just begun.

    [ Parent ]
    LOL (5.00 / 10) (#44)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:35:20 PM EST
    Nightmare? If he thinks it's been bad and Hillary has been too tough on Obama then he'll have a nervous breakdown if Obama is the nominee.

    [ Parent ]
    "Our national nightmare" is what he said (5.00 / 5) (#166)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:14:55 PM EST
    and it was a ridiculous statement to say the least.

    [ Parent ]
    A ridiculous statement (5.00 / 5) (#229)
    by suki on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:41:11 PM EST
    made by an even more ridiculous person.
    Do you think he has any idea what a fool he's become?
    I hope the nightmare he has involves a haunting by Murrow.

    [ Parent ]
    Sorry I have posted more than 10 comments today (5.00 / 16) (#7)
    by mogal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:09:32 PM EST
     I appreciate your blog so much and frankly as an old democratic Missouri Hill Billy I've needed to vet my anger at the stupidity of the party. Thank you for this site. I do apologize for abusing the privilege of posting.

    you can lurk and give ratings however! (5.00 / 1) (#210)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:29:25 PM EST
    that way you won't miss discussions.

    [ Parent ]
    I notice... (5.00 / 15) (#8)
    by OrangeFur on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:10:29 PM EST
    ... that John McCain is saying nice things about Clinton again. From the NYT:

    She has inspired generations of American women to believe that they can reach the highest office in this nation.

    Between this and his reaction to the Pfleger episode, it seems that he's making an effort to woo Clinton voters. Which, whatever you think of his sincerity, is something we could use a lot more of on the Democratic side.

    I think McCain honestly understands that one (5.00 / 14) (#13)
    by MarkL on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:13:40 PM EST
    can have a campaign in which both candidates strive to win, but respect each other. Look back to 2000---it wasn't McCain who used the dirty tricks.
    Now, since Obama shows zero respect to McCain, I don't expect McCain to show any deference at all to him, but with Hillary.. maybe.

    [ Parent ]
    You know what McCain has (5.00 / 19) (#17)
    by madamab on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:19:21 PM EST
    that Obama doesn't?

    The ability to learn.

    Remember when that old lady was caught at a campaign event asking him "How do we beat the b***h?" and he kind of laughed and didn't admonish her?

    He doesn't do or promote that type of stuff any more. He knows he needs HRC's voters to win.

    Too bad Obama never figured that out.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't for a second (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:46:43 PM EST
    believe, esp. in the context of Republicana, that McCain wouldn't yuk it up with someone who used that type of language towards Hillary again.  In public.  I'm sure he does it all the time anyway.  But he knows how to work the politics.  Remember: he's still a huge a**.  

    Nonetheless, when the articles that come out about McCain flatter the female Dem candidate, and Obama's describe Obama as "not being like a high school girl waiting by the phone," well, you've gotta wonder what the Obama people are thinking.  Esp. when polls give 23% of her people to McCain.  

    [ Parent ]

    Do you remember the look on his face (5.00 / 4) (#104)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:55:56 PM EST
    when that woman said that?  He looked like he wanted to run out of the room for a moment.  Then he kind of laughed and gave some answer.  He just didn't know what the hell to do at the time.


    [ Parent ]
    The answer is obvious (5.00 / 0) (#114)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:57:17 PM EST
    and McCain will never get it.

    [ Parent ]
    And as far as the GE goes (none / 0) (#105)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:56:00 PM EST
    I think the job of feminists is to show exactly how awful McCain is, and how much he will set this country back.  Show also how insensitive Obama's campaign has been.  But Obama's presidency is by far the better alternative.  Hillary has given women the opportunity to be incredibly visible.  Staying visible is just a matter of effort.  Her demographics, her numbers with women, just beg to be organized into something effective.  Republicans don't give a d*mn about women.  McCain won't do jack.  Obama can be influenced.  

    [ Parent ]
    Disagree. Feminists have the job of supporting (5.00 / 15) (#126)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:03:08 PM EST
    the candidate that is best for the country.  Period.  That person is not Obama.  If you haven't figured out by now that the DNC doesn't give a hoot about women then you haven't been paying attention.  I don't know how old you are but I have been around a long, long time and worked way too hard for equal rights to have someone tell me that I need to get "organized into something effective" when that "something effective" you speak of doesn't advance the cause of women.  Voting for Obama is not a vote for women.  It is a vote for a Chicago machine politician who will do and say anything to get elected.  He is a radical who hangs around with unsavory people.  He is not about women and he is not about advancing any agenda except his own.  Capice?

    [ Parent ]
    I'm with you on this. They demean women through (5.00 / 3) (#164)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:14:02 PM EST
    this whole sordid primary and then use my gender as a weapon to blackmail me to vote for them.  The battle cry "what about Roe v Wade?" and my uterus is  going to tell my brain to STFU and direct me to vote Obama.

    Not this time.  They have proven themselves to be as slimy as R's this time around and I'm not buying.

    [ Parent ]

    Dems are so much about women (5.00 / 7) (#183)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:19:56 PM EST
    Thats why the partial birth bill didn't pass right? That why they were so responsive when the SC declared that insurance companies were not required to carry BC pills on their formulary? It's why they've gone out of the way to address the loophole that has caused BC pills costs to go up on campuses? I why they filibustered Alito? Oh wait, they didn't do any of those things. The DNC can bite me. I'll be darne if they will manipulate me  by bringing out the election year cies of how much "better" they are. They aren't.  

    [ Parent ]
    Well, old men can get their Viagra paid for by (5.00 / 2) (#208)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:28:08 PM EST
    the insurance companies but women have a hard time getting their birth control pills covered.  Who runs the universe?  All you women who vote for Obama, remember that, okay?  Just think about all the little ways women are screwed in society and maybe you'll change your mind about voting for him.  I'm not saying vote for McCain, I'm saying sit it out this time.  Send a message.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm not voting for him (5.00 / 1) (#264)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:12:02 PM EST
    as I've stated prior his best chance would be to beg Hillary to join his ticket. Hillay hs proven to me that she is a figher and she wouldn't allow us to bulldozed over.

    I'm not voting MCain either.

    I'll vote down ticket and write in Hill.

    [ Parent ]

    Dems suck. (5.00 / 0) (#228)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:40:20 PM EST
    Obviously they suck.  Have they done much of anything since 2006?  I guess they prevented things from getting terribly worse.  

    I know Dems are awful, but I think the white women of the electorate now have the opportunity to flaunt their electoral strength.  Overall, it's a good moment for women in general.  The media is afraid of the electoral power of white women!  They don't like how "difficult" they are.  God knows how confused they are by WOC.  Do you hold the Dem party's many real sins against Hillary?  I don't.  The Dems suck.  Obama really sucks.  But if he's the nominee, I will vote for him.

    Women are statistically unified this election.  We have the opportunity to make our goals and concerns known.  We have the data to back up our mandate.  I think Hillary is not just a candidate.  I think she represents the need for healthcare and a helping hand for the impoverished.  I think her "wing" can perserve (sp) through this election.

    Millions of women agree upon this:  Hillary is best.  Even if she is not the nominee, we have to carry this on based on what Hillary is about; healthcare, jobs, education.  


    [ Parent ]

    A large portion of the (5.00 / 3) (#246)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:58:19 PM EST
    impoverished are women. Women and children make up a significant portion of the poor in this country. I see poverty and women's and children's issues as things that go hand in hand. It's one of the reasons why Hillary became my choice after Edwards dropped out.

    I don't see myself voting for Obama because all I'v seen is derision fom his camp for working classfolks that are in danger of sliding into poverty. I get the impression he is aligned with the pull yourselves up by your bootstraps for my taste. I want a strong, capable and responsive government. I don't see thathappening with Obama or McCain.

    [ Parent ]

    May I ask your age? (none / 0) (#237)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:50:01 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yes. (5.00 / 0) (#251)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:59:42 PM EST
    I am 22 going on 23.  Clinton supporter.  

    If you're searching for generational differences, I know they are there.  I would be interested in hearing your take on them.  Personally, McCain reminds me of the snide young men my age who would gladly say b*tch, who would happily vote for him, who would buy C*** t-shirts.  

    [ Parent ]

    Disagree with your disagreement! (5.00 / 0) (#199)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:25:18 PM EST
    If Obama's political style is as weak as we think, it can be changed and usurped by someone else within the next 8-10 years.  I think someone who calls his wife the c word, entertains a question in which Hillary is called a b**, and wants to continue a war in which women die while taking away their reproductive rights, is not the right candidate for a country ready to leap forward from Republicans' medieval view of reality.  

    They suck.  So much.  I live in the South.  Believe me.  Plz!

    The DNC is a group of bumblers with no clue about how to deal with two groups of passionate supporters, each numbering 17 million.  The DNC can be flipped as quickly as anything else.  They're literally a ship of fools.  Terry McA was the chair in 2004, I believe.  Someone new will be the chair in 2010.  

    Overall, what I'm saying is that Clinton has the female vote locked up.  Statistically, women in general, even if Obama is the nominee, can look around and say, gee, we voted for Clinton?  What now?  This is a political opportunity.  Seeing women support the first viable female candidate for the Presidency in such massive numbers should encourage women to keep organizing and making sure Obama keeps it real.  We'd have to do the same (feet to the fire wise) if it was Clinton.  

    Also, I think a strong woman (running for Prez) should see Clinton's path as that of a true trailblazer.  She took a lot of hits.  Think another candidate would take more?  I think her effort might make the next female candidate gulp but it is certainly a worthy goal!  Clinton has set the bar.  The media has put that bar very, very low (and yet very, very high).  But at least female pols know what they are in for.

    I think Clinton will be thought of much more fondly in the future than the pundits think of her now.

    [ Parent ]

    You're defending Hillary not Obama. He is not (5.00 / 6) (#215)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:34:44 PM EST
    for women, get it?  He's for himself only.  I don't give a hoot about the next woman to come along.  I care about the woman who is here now.  She's the most qualified person for the presidency this year.  I don't care if it's a woman, a man, or a 3-armed mutant from Chernobyl.  She is the most qualified PERSON.  Obama is not qualified.  And I resent the implication that many of us are voting for Hillary only because she's female.

    [ Parent ]
    I get where you are coming from. I will never vote (5.00 / 5) (#225)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:38:07 PM EST
    McCain, so that is a non-starter. I will however withhold my vote from Obama.

    You say that these massive numbers will force Obama to keep it real. Have you seen him do anything to support that belief?  

    Because I have seen him brush Hillary off his shoulders and shoes. I have seen him degrade her showing of emotion.  I have seen his wife blame infidelity on Hillary.  I have seen him use the words; claws, periodically feeling down, and likeable enough. I have seen him refer to a female journalist as sweetie.  

    I have NEVER seen him take a stand for women. And I don't believe that I am going to see that happen anytime soon.

    [ Parent ]

    Thanks. (none / 0) (#238)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:53:49 PM EST
    I think Obama obscures the Dem platform with his unity shtick.  We'll see what happens in the GE.  Hopefully he frickin defends us.

    I know about all these Obama incidents.  But think about it.  The guy that hugs GW so sweetly, the guy that acknowledges openly someone who calls Hillary a b*tch, the guy who stands on Republican principles...he's still so much worse.  McCain's potential to doublecross us is much greater.  I don't believe Obama has the same potential.  Plus he really needs us now to be Pres.  Puts women in a good position.

    [ Parent ]

    Where exactly is that position? Please do tell. (5.00 / 1) (#249)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:59:03 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I think women, (none / 0) (#259)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:06:08 PM EST
    having largely supported Hillary, being indispensable to Obama's GE success, have a lot of political leverage right now.  If Obama's team is smart, they will start engaging us more than they have.  We are the ones they need to win.  I think this is a good, if abstract position, for women.  We certainly have more power than bloggers, if I can put it that way.

    If Obama does not allow women to shape his platform I believe he will lose the election.  And he will if he chooses a woman other than Hillary as VP.

    [ Parent ]

    Honestly, the time to start defending women has (5.00 / 1) (#257)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:03:43 PM EST
    long passed for Obama.

    At this point it is nothing but pandering to get votes.  He realizes he needs the votes of all the women he has refused to speak out for.

     In my opinion he can do nothing to get those votes.  He doesn't deserve them.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama IS Dubya! (5.00 / 3) (#265)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:12:24 PM EST
    He doesn't have to hug him!  He's Dubya with a Democrat brand label.  

    Just like Dubya, he has no experience, he's a "Washington outsider," and he is promising us "Unity."  That's the platform Dubya ran on too!  

    And you saw what happened!  The minute Dubya got into office a bunch of old timers ran the agenda.  Do you really think Dubya was running the country?  Or do you think Dick Cheney was doing the job?

    Obama will be another one of those.  Obama doesn't know enough to run this country.  He's going to give us uplifting speeches with a teleprompter while others with various motives run with whatever agenda they have.  

    Anyway, call it female intuition but I sense a rat.  

    [ Parent ]

    I seriously believe (5.00 / 12) (#142)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:07:56 PM EST
    that her candidacy will SCARE other women from running.  She has been treated worse than any other presidential candidate I've EVER seen.  And I've followed quite a number of primaries.

    And if Obama wins the general on this HORRENDOUSLY cruel campaign against Hillary, I don't think I'll see a female president in my lifetime.

    [ Parent ]

    we don't have a job. obama does! (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:31:13 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    McCain also has class. And humility. And (5.00 / 5) (#85)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:50:02 PM EST
    maturity.  Obama has none of these.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, oh, oh - not true. (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:19:01 PM EST
    McCain is about as scary as it gets in DC.  Obama is a nothing - and therefore manageable - McCain on the other hand is extremely complex, effective and dangerous.  

    [ Parent ]
    McCain's no dummy (5.00 / 9) (#14)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:14:03 PM EST
    He can stick his finger to the wind.

    I won't vote for him.  But I will never underestimate him either.

    [ Parent ]

    yeah, it was bad enough when the Dems (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by MarkL on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:18:48 PM EST
    misunderestimated Bush.

    [ Parent ]
    I believe he is completely sincere (5.00 / 7) (#41)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:34:48 PM EST
    He said on MTP when he was asked 2 years ago about Hillary running for president that she would be an outstanding candidate and could be a great president.  I haven't seen his attitude change at all.


    [ Parent ]
    Not to mention what one of his aides said (none / 0) (#256)
    by americanincanada on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:03:13 PM EST
    today on the trail.

    Fiorina: "I think women in positions of power are treated differently"

    The McCain aide and former CEO says Clinton has faced sexism in the campaign.

    "I have a lot of sympathy for what she's gone through. A lot of women recognize she's been treated differently, whether they're Democrats or Republicans."

    [ Parent ]

    OT ... (none / 0) (#266)
    by Jane in CA on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:13:10 PM EST
    But I've heard that Fiorina is running for California Governor on the Republican ticket in two years.

    As of tomorrow (after the election), I am no longer a democrat, so I can vote for her, guilt-free :)

    [ Parent ]

    I think a race between Clinton (none / 0) (#270)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:20:02 PM EST
    and McCain would have been run at a much higher level.  They both know how to play in the mud but they wouldn't have had to do that.  They have enough differences between them to run a good race.  

    [ Parent ]
    Who here thinks Hillary can win (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by vicsan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:11:40 PM EST
    both Montana and SD tomorrow? Have you seen the latest polls? She will win SD and is within 4 point in Montana. Then what will the DC elites, DNC and the MSM do? I would expect to see a few heads exploding tomorrow night. :) She's looking good in BOTH states! What say you?

    Well, it seemed like there was a large (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by derridog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:38:46 PM EST
    undecided vote in Montana. Wasn't it 8 percent? If late voters vote for Hillary, it's possible.

    I hate to get my hopes up, though.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't see it (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by waldenpond on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:41:05 PM EST
    ARG just hasn't had a good record.  I wish there were other polls out.  Obama figured 15 pts in SD and 11 in MT.  The SDs will need to look at why he didn't get there.

    My ideal?  Clinton can come out a few pts ahead in SD than Obama does in MT and keeps the popular vote gain for him very depressed.  bwaahaahaa

    [ Parent ]

    It is possible, because ... (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by cymro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:01:11 PM EST
    ... it looks as if she is very strong in SD. If MT is truly within 4%, with 8% undecided, as today's ARG poll reported, then anything is possible.

    However, one odd thing about the report of that poll is this statement:

    Obama leads 49% to 45% among voters age 18 to 49 (44% of likely Democratic primary voters) and Obama leads 48% to 43% among voters age 50 and older

    Older voters in almost every other state have tilted to Clinton, yet the poll states that Clinton has no advantage among the 56% of voters who are 50 and older. This seems hard to believe, especially since the previous Mason-Dixon poll in MT reported a 16 point difference between those two age groups:

    Voters younger than age 50 favor Obama by 56 percent to 30 percent, while those 50 and older back Obama 49 percent to 39 percent ...

    This conflict undermines my faith in this ARG poll, and my degree of belief already starts from the knowledge that ARG is lowly ranked in accuracy among all polls. So I conclude that she could win, but I'm not counting on it.

    [ Parent ]

    Clogging (5.00 / 6) (#12)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:13:03 PM EST
    That is hysterical Stella thanks for posting that (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by athyrio on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:22:29 PM EST
    clog dance.....No doubt all Hillary supporters :-)

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks for the laff... (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:31:51 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Chuck Todd on Obamamann (5.00 / 18) (#15)
    by Coldblue on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:18:20 PM EST
    said Obama is pressuring his 'banked' superdelegates to come out for him tomorrow and that, coupled with his expected his PD pick ups tomorrow, will allow him to declare victory before Hillary can speak tomorrow night.

    The more I see from Obama, the more hardened I become in not supporting his nomination.

    One would think (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:32:43 PM EST
    the BANKED supers would come out BEFORE this last primary, to help Obama win the primary on a high note.

    [ Parent ]
    Backlash (5.00 / 5) (#75)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:45:58 PM EST
    I'm wondering if they're afraid of a backlash.  A lot of top DNC people are officially undeclared.  I would assume it's somewhat of a tradition of not endorsing early so 'lower-downs' get to declare who they want (sort of why Gore hasn't endorsed anyone yet).

    If he declares himself the nominee too early, even if he reaches the magic number, a lot of people will be very unhappy.  Could some of them finally have realized they have a lot of very unhappy Democrats and recently-former Democrats on their hands?

    Btw, all these reports of SDs meeting in a closed room somewhere -- so high school, doncha think?

    [ Parent ]

    Everything about the Obama campaign (5.00 / 7) (#87)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:50:28 PM EST
    seems high school to me.  From the finger on the cheek, to the RFK thing, to the closed door RBC to the super closed door meeting.

    It feels like the Democratic Party has been invaded by blog-cloggers (ht CC)

    [ Parent ]

    I think you are being too kind by likening (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:00:26 PM EST
    it to high school...seems more like middle school to me.

    Bush always reminded me of "Beavis," so it's too bad the show wasn't called "Beavis and Bonehead."  

    [ Parent ]

    Pick Flick... (none / 0) (#162)
    by mulletov cocktails on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:13:30 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    That Obama would even consider such a (5.00 / 12) (#40)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:34:21 PM EST
    tasteless and mean-spirited act tells me pretty much all I need to know about him.  

    I would vote for the dirt on the bottom of my shoe before I would vote for such a despicable person.

    [ Parent ]

    It's not like he's wanting for airtime. (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:43:38 PM EST
    Let them count the votes.  Unless he thinks that superdelegates are widely respected as an institution by the American public?

    [ Parent ]
    It was very telling to me (5.00 / 1) (#240)
    by suki on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:55:15 PM EST
    and certainly not presidential, to put it mildly.
    I can't imagine any President, besides Bush, who would do something like that.

    [ Parent ]
    No Real Surprise (5.00 / 5) (#70)
    by CDN Ctzn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:44:20 PM EST
    considering the media, so-called "progressive" talk shows and blogs, and Obamaphiles all annointed him as the Nominee over THREE MONTHS ago.

    Damn the voters; full speed ahead!

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary Will Win South Dakota (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Athena on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:45:23 PM EST
    Will Obama wait for Hillary's SD win or try to pretend it's not happening?

    Wow, Daschle is really useful.

    [ Parent ]

    ColdBlue - you speak for me (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by Josey on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:54:49 PM EST
    Obama's arrogance and immaturity are big turnoffs.


    [ Parent ]
    Irish blog dancing? (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:21:44 PM EST
    Really - when I saw the title that's where my mind went. The image of Atrios, Kos, and Josh doing a jig together had me spurting.

    Love it. But as an Irisher, (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:34:18 PM EST
    I can attest -- based on more than 15,000 emails among my family in the last five years alone; one archived them all and has a message counter! --  that an Irish blog must be one wordy site.  

    It would take some serious, well, blogslogging to get through it all.:-)

    [ Parent ]

    Me too (none / 0) (#57)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:40:34 PM EST
    I thought that was going to be the video.

    [ Parent ]
    Larry King just read a statement that Clinton (5.00 / 11) (#21)
    by Teresa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:23:54 PM EST
    campaign will say tomorrow night that she will do anything it takes to get a Dem in the White House in Nov. Larry says Obama insiders say that means she will accept VP if offered. Wexler says that's just conjecture and too soon to say. Carville agrees.

    Nobody has spoken in Sen Clinton's defense more than Barack Obama says Wexler. Oh my goodness!