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How About Clark?

Matt Stoller and I have disagreed on any number of things over the years, but one thing we have always agreed on is our admiration for General Wes Clark. Here he makes the case for Clark for VP. Read the whole thing, and I endorse the merits based argument for Clark, but I am interested here to the reaction on the unity part of his argument:

On the other political point, Clark is a Clintonista through and through, and so putting him on the ticket would be a key signal to the Clinton world that they will have influence in an Obama administration.. . . [T]he Clinton people need an incentive to work aggressively for the ticket, and Clark is that incentive. . . . Clark is . . . a supremely progressive advocate, and probably the best Clinton loyalist on national security issues that progressives have. . . . [MORE . . .]

This is a guy who not only opposed the war but, along with Ted Kennedy, fiercely opposed Lieberman in 2006, shooting a TV commercial for Lamont when the entire edifice of the institutional establishment was against him. He was not only against the war, but he is demonstrably more progressive in his politics than almost any other Democrat. Clark would in other fulfill the political requirement of VP masterfully, uniting progressives and Clintonistas and with a clear track record of serving as an important and trusted surrogate for Democrats all over the country.

What do you think?

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

Comments closed.

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    I think your arguments for Unity (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by ChiTownDenny on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:22:10 PM EST
    still hold.  The only way I see a Dem presidency.

    clark's a great choice (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Turkana on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:22:37 PM EST
    and he adds a gravitas obama needs, but a part of me wonders if anyone other than clinton herself will really help repair the damage.

    Respectfully confute your point, (5.00 / 7) (#75)
    by magnetics on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:45:08 PM EST
    although I greatly admire your posts, Turk, I think if Obama needs gravitas, it's over -- which is to say, I think that he is sufficiently inexperienced on the national stage, that the attempt to add gravitas only shows him up as such.

    Nonetheless, that said, I do think the 'unity pony' would run well, even though Clinton as candidate for VP would very much upstage Obama at the top of the ticket -- still, it seems the only winning solution in November, with so much blood under the bridge.

    I did not dislike Obama at the start of primary season, but I have come greatly to do so, and although I consider myself a loyal yellow dog Democrat, I have considered sitting out November if he is the nominee and Hillary is not the VP candidate.  I wouldn't vote for McCain dogcatcher, but Obama is the first Democratic presidential contender to have awakened such distaste in me, and I have been voting Dem since McGovern.

    Also, as one half a mixed race marriage (Ashkenaz-Aframerican), I think I can be absolved of the charge of racism in this regard.  You may not remember Jesse's run in 1988, but I thought it was awesome.  I remember an interview (on NPR I think) with an old  Wisconsin farmer, who had just heard Jackson speak, and it was as if someone had poured progressive truth serum into the guy.

    Parent

    i think you speak for a lot of people (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Turkana on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:48:38 PM EST
    unless he jumps the rails and picks hagel or some other republican, i'll vote for obama; but i do think a lot of people will need clinton on the ticket, even if it does seem upside down.

    Parent
    Frankly, I would rather see Clark (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:23:42 PM EST
    as VP than Clinton, unless she wants the job independent of the call for unity.

    Possible age issue (none / 0) (#30)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:32:17 PM EST
    He's 64 says wikipedia (thought he was younger).  That would make him a bit old in 2016 to be a two-termer.

    Parent
    Old is good! (none / 0) (#93)
    by OrangeFur on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:48:59 PM EST
    If he's not a presidential hopeful himself, easier for Clinton to run again in 2012/2016.

    Unless she wins the nomination and the presidency this year, of course.

    Parent

    I doubt Clark would jump on the obama (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:24:38 PM EST
    bandwagon.  He is a loyal guy.  obama thinks he is the end-all, be-all...perhaps he doesn't even need a VP.

    That's the ticket! (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by stillife on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:46:25 PM EST
    Obama/Obama in '08!

    Parent
    that was my imediate though (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:13:26 PM EST
    in reality it is all about Obama v Obama and Obama/Obama, no matter who is the veep.

    Parent
    Doesn't need a VP (5.00 / 0) (#110)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:53:00 PM EST
    Can I vote that the best comment of the day?

    There's no button for it, but I would if I could.

    Parent

    He's a military guy (4.66 / 3) (#16)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:28:18 PM EST
    which breeds loyalty.  I'm with you.  I have a hard time believing that he'd go to the Obama side.

    Parent
    High Fiving Teresainsnow2 (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:30:01 PM EST
    The idea is (none / 0) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:32:09 PM EST
    he does it with Clinton's blessing.

    Parent
    Right, the point would be (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:34:16 PM EST
    that Clinton might not want to step down to VP but she might be able to argue she got her hand-picked supporter to take her place.  I would see that as a victory for her and a fair way for Obama to reach out to her voters.

    Parent
    I'd rather have Clark as he Pres than VP. (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Teresa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:24:48 PM EST
    I love him. He's the only acceptable compromise I can think of that might bring some around. It will take more than just a VP though.

    I would spit nails if Clark did that. (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by masslib on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:26:01 PM EST


    Me too. (5.00 / 10) (#71)
    by vicsan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:44:20 PM EST
    He too is too good a man to be associated with the BO campaign that will soon go down in flames. I was a Clarkie too. I love Wes.

    No, BO needs to pick someone like Richardson, Kerry, McCaskill...someone whose reputation can't be sullied anymore than it already is.

    Parent

    Totally agree. Let them have their party (5.00 / 7) (#96)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:49:45 PM EST
    if they insist. Leave the good folks like Clark out of it.

    Says another Clark fan :)

    Parent

    correction (none / 0) (#73)
    by vicsan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:44:46 PM EST
    He = He's

    Parent
    He has too much honor (5.00 / 7) (#85)
    by goldberry on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:47:21 PM EST
    The guy's got too much self-respect than to take a position with these cheaters.

    Parent
    the fact is obama asked clark to support (5.00 / 6) (#109)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:52:37 PM EST
    him and promised the veep slot if he would desert hillary. he didn't and i sorta doubt he would seriously consider it now. along with lanny he knows what loyalty means. there will be another day. we'll see ya'll again.

    Parent
    It would be like another back-stabbing (5.00 / 11) (#12)
    by stillife on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:27:15 PM EST
    of Clinton, IMO.  He has been one of her strongest and most loyal supporters.  I went to see them (Clinton and Clark) speak at Town Hall in NYC, back in the good old days last fall when the rot in this campaign hadn't yet set in.  

    At this point, the party is so divided that Obama needs to sink or swim on his own.  

    Sorry, I guess I'm just feeling extra-bitter tonight.

    I agree with you (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by waldenpond on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:39:30 PM EST
    It seems so hypocritical.  Look how people responded to Richardson calling him Judas.  I don't think it would go over well.  

    Doesn't seem rational to me.  If she is old politics, aren't her most loyal supporters also?  If she is so bad, aren't the people closest to her also?   Also, I have no idea how she would sell this, as we all know would fall on her to do.

    Parent

    It would ring an extremely false note (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by stillife on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:43:51 PM EST
    to Clinton supporters.  When I saw them at Town Hall, I was thrilled at the prospect of a Clinton/Clark ticket.  It would have been a can't lose proposition against the Repubs.  

    Apparently, experience is a dirty word in the new Democratic Party.  If Obama really believes in the so-called "new politics", he needs to dance with them that brung him - to the music of the violinists playing on the sinking Titanic.

    Parent

    Ha! If experience is a (5.00 / 3) (#169)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:10:50 PM EST
    dirty word in the New Democrat Party, maybe Obama can find a VP at a high school somewhere?  Teenagers don't know a whole lot but they sure think they know it all, true?  (I just remember when I was a teen!)

    Parent
    It's Funny (5.00 / 7) (#144)
    by JimWash08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:03:19 PM EST
    That you should mention Obama's Old/New Washington Politics mantra (which is just trash by the way.)

    Most of his supporters are old politicians, and some of the biggest losers and most divisive figures in politics. I will not name names but just let your imagination run back a couple of decades.

    When, and if, he becomes President, he will be surrounded by Old-style Washington politicians, and this dog is so old, it can't be taught new tricks in 4 (or 8) years. But I digress.

    I was a huge supporter of Gen. Clark in 2004 and was majorly bummed when he didn't receive enough support to go all the way past Edwards. I think he would have made a better VP choice to Kerry ... but in hindsight, it's just as well.

    I think Obama has become a severely divisive figure in his own right, and no one on the Democratic party, not even Hillary, could help him heal the divide of the party as quickly and easily as the he and his surrogates would like to believe.

    Parent

    that is an excellent analysis. (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:07:29 PM EST
    Excellent post! (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:22:04 PM EST
    It's funny you would mention this:

    Most of his supporters are old politicians, and some of the biggest losers and most divisive figures in politics. I will not name names but just let your imagination run back a couple of decades.
    When, and if, he becomes President, he will be surrounded by Old-style Washington politicians, and this dog is so old, it can't be taught new tricks in 4 (or 8) years. But I digress.

    Many of his Obama's current supporters don't have a clue who some of his backers are and they don't remember the Carter era.  On top of that, I understand that Hillary was able to retain a lot of people who worked in her husband's administration but their underlings went to the Obama campaign -- so now you got a mix of "Old Guard" & "2nd Bests."  It would be interesting to see how they'd pull it together but I don't see it being harmoneous at all.  

    Parent

    posted above, clark already turned him (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:53:43 PM EST
    down. obama isn't the sort of guy to go back twice. too much ego in my opinion.

    Parent
    stillife (5.00 / 4) (#184)
    by cal1942 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:16:12 PM EST
    I don't think you're bitter.

    You're right.

    Obama's on his own. He made the mess and he'll have to clean this one up himself. Scorched earth is never good policy. As an earlier commenter said, General Clark is too good a man to be soiled by this.

    And no one Obama picks will make a difference to me. The top of the ticket on my ballot will be blank.

    Parent

    I like Clark (5.00 / 6) (#14)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:27:25 PM EST
    But it's silly for his VP appointment to signal that Clinton would have any weight in the Obama administration.  Anyone who thinks that she would because of that, is well, um, shall we say, a wishful thinker.

    It depends on how hard Obama (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by ding7777 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:38:12 PM EST
    wants to work.

    If Obama is another FDR, then Clark could end up being another John "the vice presidency wasn't worth a warm bucket of spit" Garner.

    But if Obama is more like Dubya in his work habits, then Clark could be another Dick "having access to every table and every meeting," Cheney.

    Parent

    look, face it there is no way the obama (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:54:50 PM EST
    team is going to let a clinton supporter come in with significant power. think about obama's early friends and mentors.

    Parent
    They may not have much choice (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by denise k on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:02:03 PM EST
    The VP is nominated and voted on at the convention.  There are going to be a lot of Hillary delegates there to deal with.  They could force someone down his throat.  It is not likely to happen, but if he handles things badly wrt Hillary, it could happen.

    Parent
    i hope not. clark's heart wouldn't be in it. (none / 0) (#182)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:14:24 PM EST
    personally i don't see the obama team treating him well either. clark isn't the type of guy who will take it for the team either.

    Parent
    After the Puerto Rico Blowout (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:22:15 PM EST
    If I were a betting person, I'd put my money on Obama's selecting Gov. Richardson; the thinking would be the Richardson would help with the Latino vote and bring foreign policy credentials.

    I personally don't think Richardson has enough credibility with the Latino community, but that's just my own impressions.  I'm saying what I think Obama campaign might do.  

    Parent

    i think it will be a woman. (none / 0) (#215)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:35:17 PM EST
    i think speaking only for me that the choice will do as much for him as a woman veep did for mondale.

    Parent
    I don't think so (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by DaveOinSF on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:27:55 PM EST
    The divisions are on an emotional level, not on a politically calculated level.  I can't see how Clark contributes to salving the emotional wounds.

    I've been around a few pols (none / 0) (#204)
    by cal1942 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:26:41 PM EST
    they are calculating, but can be emotional and personal. Especially personal.

    Did you hear Harold Ickes on Saturday?

    Parent

    Women love a man in uniform? (none / 0) (#210)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:30:00 PM EST
    Just kidding.  But honestly, if they would think of foisting Sebelius or McCaskill on us, they might think of anything.

    Parent
    I wont be voting for them (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:29:23 PM EST
    The absolute best chance that Obama could have to tepid support from me would be a unity ticket. Otherwise, I'm going wine shopping and will be toasting the disater that the DNC made of a presidential election which should have been a no brainer. I'll vote down ticket for Warner and Boucher but I'll do a write in for President.

    If you're asking if Wes Clarke as VP would get (5.00 / 11) (#20)
    by samanthasmom on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:29:35 PM EST
    me to vote for Obama - no.  If you're asking me if I think Wes Clarke would be a good VP for Hillary - yes.

    Really like Clarke for President (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:45:51 PM EST
    but as VP to Obama?  Why to make Obama looker even weaker and more inexperienced?

    People are going to go through all kinds of these gyrations.  But it's just like putting lipstick on a pig to pretty it up, in the end it's still a pig.

    Parent

    Pick Daschle (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by catfish on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:30:38 PM EST
    He lost his seat while he was minority leader, that should help Obama. (Can you tell I'm bitter?)

    I hear guns and bibles (5.00 / 5) (#29)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:32:15 PM EST
    are the antidote for bitterness.

    Parent
    Only if you live in a small town (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:10:51 PM EST
    Let me see... (5.00 / 4) (#41)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:35:30 PM EST
     We get 3rd best for Presidential nominee, and now we have to go scraping the barrel to find anyone who could even approach Hillary's caliber?  Hmm, what a great game.  That is supposed to get me all excited and tingly and rushing to support the Unity?  

    Parent
    Kerry, Daschle, Deval, Axelrod hisself. (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:41:32 PM EST
    Daley, Hagel, Fiengold...?

    Parent
    I have been a Gen. Clark supporter. (5.00 / 8) (#25)
    by wurman on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:31:57 PM EST
    Sen. Obama would look very similar to lightweight George W. Bu$h selecting Cheney as a method of bringing gravitas to a weak campaign.  Gen. Clark would so vastly outshine Sen. Obama that the comparisons would be utterly embarrassing.

    Gen. Clark is a Rhodes scholar, uncommonly articulate, a quick & sharp thinker, adept at handling the media, a skilled debater & a truly "commanding" presence.  For him to be in the same venue as Sen. Obama would serve only to highlight the much better skills, personality, character & experience of the general--perhaps much to the detriment of the senator.

    And, in some respects, I don't "believe" that Gen. Clark would want to affiliate with a Chicago Daley-machine politician who seems to have 900 or so friends with unusually complex aches & pains caused by trying to fit under the campaign bus.

    Same problem with anyone really good for VP (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:47:37 PM EST
    If they are a great politician in their own right, they risk making him look bad.  If they are as lightweight as he is, then an already weak ticket is weaker.

    Given so, Obama might as well look geographically.  Obviously Wexler was auditioning for the position on Saturday.

    Parent

    Wexler is auditioning again on Larry King right (5.00 / 3) (#175)
    by Teresa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:12:31 PM EST
    now.

    Parent
    After his last performance (5.00 / 4) (#187)
    by suki on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:19:14 PM EST
    I have NO desire to see it again.
    I have zero respect for him now.

    Parent
    Ickes dissected that dude with... (none / 0) (#106)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:51:45 PM EST
    ...an icy stare.  

    Parent
    OH NO, Surely Not!!! (none / 0) (#129)
    by mogal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:57:37 PM EST
    Yes! The comparisons will be bad (none / 0) (#43)
    by Davidson on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:35:53 PM EST
    That's what I keep running into whenever I think of a slew of VPs: the great candidates Obama needs will only cast a light on his own weaknesses, namely experience, leadership, and accomplishment.

    I believe Axelrod is right: the only way Obama can win is by being seen as an unconventional candidate, hence the personality-based campaign void of substance.

    Parent

    What about Daley himself? (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:38:02 PM EST
    Obama/Daley 08 it's very in your face.

    Parent
    OK, then, Blagojevich. (5.00 / 5) (#63)
    by wurman on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:41:07 PM EST
    Put it in everyone's face & pardon him between the swearing-in & the inaugural balls.

    Parent
    That would be gratifying. (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by masslib on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:44:40 PM EST
    bingo! (none / 0) (#123)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:55:35 PM EST
    Whether Sen. Obama or Sen. Clinton is the . . . (none / 0) (#152)
    by wurman on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:05:34 PM EST
    . . . nominee, Gen. Clark would be a powerful cabinet member.  It would take special action by Congress (which could possibly be set up in advance) to indicate during the campaign that the general would be nominated for Sec. of Defense.

    That move, alone, by either Democrat would blow Sen. McCain's entire Iraq war scheme, skam, flim-flam into oblivion.  Gen. Clark's chops would be a coup against the entire rightwingnutz chorus & neuter the issue.

    Either Democrat could just state that the Iraq situation is handled, next question please.  And I think the voters of the USA would accept that & move on to other core issues.

    Parent

    Obama's qualifications (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by Davidson on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:33:01 PM EST
    How is Obama qualified to be president?  That is a legitimate question and I don't see how any VP can fix that issue for him.  Mind you, VPs are basically there to pick up a state or two and yet we're looking for an Obama VP that'll fix all these major flaws with Obama, especially his weak demographic coalition.

    Immaterial and won't happen (5.00 / 10) (#37)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:34:20 PM EST
    Clark would be great on a Hillary ticket. He does nothing for Obama, his heart wouldn't be in it and he brings no additional voter groups to Obama.

    It would also bring home the point that Obama's military creds are so week he needs to put a former general on the ticket.

    Exactly. (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:39:34 PM EST
    And he brings no electoral votes.

    I keep trying to think who Obama can pick.  I can't think of one person who can help him win the nomination.


    Parent

    Win the (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:40:59 PM EST
    presidency, that is.

    Parent
    Obama can get Jesus Christ as his VP (5.00 / 9) (#139)
    by angie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:02:09 PM EST
    and I'm still not voting for him. I know this makes me not a Democrat -- pfft. Some things are more important then whether you are a Democrat or a Republican. For example, my father is a dyed in the wool Republican -- not a right wing fundie (in fact, he is a non-practicing Episcopalian which is about as "un-religious" as you can get) but a typical rich white male Republican from a long line of same. He never voted for a Democrat in his life UNTIL the Republican nominee for governor in LA was David Duke. My father voted for Edwin Edwards -- not just a Democrat, but a man who embodied everything my father believes is wrong with the Democratic Party (fiscally irresponsible, tax and spend, blah, blah, blah). But, my father could not in good conscience vote for David Duke -- and I feel the exact same way about Obama. I cannot vote for a man who stands up and says "give me votes I didn't earn" or who advocates not counting all the votes, nor one who flings charges of racism and exploits sexism to win an election. He says he can win without me, good luck to him.

    Parent
    Clark actually (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:24:10 PM EST
    ran very well in the rural areas.  If you followed the primary he won (Okla) and those in which he came in 2nd, he pulled into position late in the night, as the votes came in from the rural areas.  

    Parent
    Remember his remarks regarding VP (5.00 / 5) (#67)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:43:25 PM EST
    in his BitterCling Speech. He already has told us he doesn't need FP/Military experience in a VP. {rolls eyes}

    Parent
    Seriously, (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:47:01 PM EST
    what person can he pick that brings something to the ticket?

    My husband and I were discussing this earlier.

    (Not that McCain has an easy pick either, but that will only make the race closer.)

    Parent

    He needs to pick (none / 0) (#171)
    by denise k on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:11:31 PM EST
    someone from one of the big Eastern swing states.  Hopefully not a senator, but rather a governor or other person with a political/administrative track record who won't overshadow him.  

    OTOH, he could go West and pick Richardson who is all of the above and an Hispanic to boot.  

    Parent

    If Obama is the nominee, (none / 0) (#195)
    by samanthasmom on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:22:39 PM EST
    McCain needs a woman. I think he's checking a couple of them out.

    Parent
    make that weak (none / 0) (#39)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:34:46 PM EST
    not week

    Parent
    South Dakota (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:37:46 PM EST
    all the way.  Hillary will win that one and the SDs, will look like the fools they are.  


    Parent
    OT, but I was calling SD this morning (5.00 / 3) (#216)
    by samanthasmom on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:36:47 PM EST
    An eighty five year old woman told me that she has been waiting all of her life to vote for a woman for President. Says there's room for one more face on Rushmore and it's being saved for Hillary. I needed a tissue.

    Parent
    WEEK was right (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by talex on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:48:27 PM EST
    Because a WEEK is about all the military cred Obama has has during his training sessions with people who know what they are talking about.

    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#77)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:45:45 PM EST
    Clark would likely tap into the Appalachian crowd and would also allay most people's fears about Obama's lack of FP & military experience.

    He has also shown himself to be tough enough to hang on Fox News and hold his own.

    I think he offers a lot of assets that would compliment Obama's weaknesses.

    Parent

    What are they going to do (5.00 / 4) (#101)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:50:30 PM EST
    put the phone with the 3:AM calls in Clarks bedroom?

    Parent
    Tap into what? (none / 0) (#100)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:50:27 PM EST
    And anyone can step into the presidency, obviously.  Someone who has no expertise about healthcare and the economy, and education, and war...

    Oh, wait!

    Parent

    It's also premature to talk about an Obama vp (5.00 / 8) (#40)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:35:08 PM EST
    he doesn't have the nomination yet.

    THANK you (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:37:32 PM EST
    for stating that truth.

    I've been seeing the kinder, gentler, "why won't she quit" or "she's going to quit".

    This is the reality.  Not the other thing.  The other thing is just to suppress voter turnout.

    Parent

    Yes, thank you. (none / 0) (#60)
    by mogal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:39:54 PM EST
    The Obama camp (5.00 / 6) (#55)
    by stillife on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:39:20 PM EST
    from what I've seen, wants to purge the "Clintonistas" from the party.  They don't believe that they need us to win in November.  Obama, IMO, would be threatened by a powerful running mate, especially if that person were a Clinton supporter.  For those reasons, I believe he'll select a non-charismatic running mate, somebody who's not all that well known.  I'm still thinking he'll do a boneheaded move like select Claire McCaskill.

    Yow! have you heard her spiel (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by magnetics on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:50:32 PM EST
    about how she thinks that  "privatization is the future of the US military?!"

    Parent
    You ARE kidding I hope (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:54:46 PM EST
    Please tell me you're kidding. I can't believe anyne would be for privtizing after seeing the cluster that having privae mercanerieshas caused in Iraq. Doh.

    Parent
    Well, doesn't Obama want to keep private (none / 0) (#173)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:11:50 PM EST
    security in Iraq?

    Parent
    Obama (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:44:16 PM EST
     will need a VP like Dubya, but unlike Dubya he does not get it that he needs someone to do all the work that he is not capable of doing.  A smart Obama, would have gotten Hillary to be the VP, get her to do all the work and he gets the credit.  But his handlers know that they could not manage her the way they can manage Obama.  So, he will get someone who is a "nothing", like Richardson.  And the two puppets will run America, while the Plutocrats, control the Progressives into thinking they created a Revolution.  Yippeeee!!!...

    Speaking as a disinterested observer (5.00 / 6) (#84)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:47:13 PM EST
    because I will not vote for Obama no matter who's on the ticket with him and I don't think he has a chance in you-know-what of beating McCain no matter who's on the ticket with him...

    I think Clark would be a first-rate VP choice (though I'd rather see him as Def. Sec, truth be told).  Clark is an incredibly smart and perceptive and just plain human kind of guy, but I think it's pretty clear he isn't even adequate as a presidential candidate.

    Whatever it takes to get him as high in the government as possible I'm in favor of just in principle.

    Politically, he has no negatives I'm aware of and his mediocre campaigning skills I don't think would be much of a deficit in this circumstance, nor would his inability to bring a swing state with him.

    Barack's going to have to live or die by his own self, and no VP choice can significantly affect his prospects with the voters, IMO.  So he might as well go for essentially the best possible guy out there, and that's Clark-- again, IMO.

    He can't be Sec Def (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:52:24 PM EST
    because he has not been out of active duty long enough.

    One of the many things I have learned in this campaign.

    Parent

    hey, its Obama.... (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by p lukasiak on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:08:38 PM EST
    you think a little thing like the law is going to stop him?  You obviously haven't been paying attention!  ;)

    Parent
    Gee, still not? (none / 0) (#192)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:21:10 PM EST
    How long do you have to be out?  He'd make a fine Sec/State, too, but man, what he could do to straighten out the Def. Dept.!

    Parent
    I believe I read 10 years (none / 0) (#202)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:26:10 PM EST
    He still has a couple of years to go.  But Congress could pass a 'waiver' if requested. Oh god, there's that word.....

    Parent
    Must be out 10 years (none / 0) (#206)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:27:00 PM EST
    or get a waiver.

    There are many cabinet positions at which Clark would excell and for which he is eminently qualified - National Security Adviser, Head of the super intelligence agency, Homeland Security, etc.  

    Parent

    Must be out 10 years (none / 0) (#208)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:27:43 PM EST
    or get a waiver.

    There are many cabinet positions at which Clark would excell and for which he is eminently qualified - National Security Adviser, Head of the super intelligence agency, Homeland Security, etc.  

    Parent

    Vote against McCain (none / 0) (#111)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:53:03 PM EST
    Clark can't be Sec. of Def. because he's been active too recently.  Sec. of State would be good.  He'd be my second choice for VP, though somebody young enough to carry on in 2016 would be good.

    Parent
    Pre-mature (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:47:53 PM EST
    Obama and whomever he has promised this position to will both be disappointed.

    Who the next VP is will be Hillary's decision. :)

    But, if you really want to know about Clark on the unlikely Obama ticket. No. He needs to stay away from all Clinton supporters because it looks like he's scratching his cheek again.

    He needs to show us his own judgment.

    Very true! (none / 0) (#115)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:54:04 PM EST
    Thanks for saying that.

    Yep, to take a Clinton loyalist would look like a snub.  It may not look like a snub on the day he does it, but over time, it would.

    And BTW Java, I think you asked in another thread, I'm in Western Washington, Redmond area.

    Parent

    BTD, if you like Clark who could beome Pres. (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by mogal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:48:40 PM EST
    Why would you be for obama over Hillary?

    Clarke can't fix Obama's electability problem (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by cymro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:49:04 PM EST
    Obama will lose the GE because a lot of Clinton voters (independents, moderates, and Republican women) will defect to McCain if Obama is at the top of the ticket. I don't think that adding Clark in the VP slot will do much to stem that tide. I agree that it could help him a little, in a manner analogous to the benefit Bush gained from adding Cheney.

    But I still don't believe the combination of Obama and Clark would be strong enough to defeat McCain. The Republicans will attack Obama on his record, his past associations, and his readiness for the job -- the VP, however good, cannot do much to blunt those attacks. Also, we can expect McCain to add a strong VP candidate to his ticket, to counter the selection of Clark. (What if he picked Condi, for example?)

    So the issue for voters will come back to McCain vs Obama. Which Obama will lose.

    You are right. (5.00 / 4) (#128)
    by Mrwirez on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:57:16 PM EST
    Obama has major issues with specific voting blocks, and Wes Clarke may have been a general, but he seems to lack testosterone.....[my opinion]

    OT: My Governor, Ed Rendell was on CNN and said the SD's are making a mistake, Ed said "she has cleaned his clock since March 1st."

    Way Off topic: Is Campbell Brown smitten with Obama or something?? She really sickens me, the same with Anderson Cooper.... He is smitten too.. lol

    Parent

    Ed Rendell (5.00 / 3) (#150)
    by stillife on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:05:15 PM EST
    is da bomb.  He's been a great advocate for Hillary.  I'm like Santa Claus in this primary season, making a list and checking it twice.  Rendell is one of the good guys.  I don't think Obama would choose Rendell as a running mate b/c Rendell would outshine him.  

    Parent
    Even Clinton can't fix Obama's electability ... (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by dwmorris on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:31:56 PM EST
    problem. The party seems intent on assuming that Clinton hardened Obama enough for the GE campaign. Talk about wishful thinking.

    IMO Obama's going to collapse like a house of cards when the Republican attack machine goes to work on him. His "new politics" rhetoric isn't going to impress many Republicans.

    Parent

    I'm for it (5.00 / 9) (#99)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:50:16 PM EST
    But reading the comments over there is funny.  Lots of people don't want Clark because...wait for it...having him as VP calls attention to Obama's lack of experience.

    As Bob Somerby would say, I broke into mordant laughter.

    Honestly? (5.00 / 4) (#117)
    by OrangeFur on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:54:37 PM EST
    I'd bet most people have completely forgotten about Clark, if they ever knew about him. Almost nobody knows that he's a Clinton loyalist.

    If the goal is to try to repair some of the rift between the Obama campaign and Clinton supporters, this is way too subtle an approach. Nobody will notice.

    If the goal is to get a decent person as vice president, then it may be a good idea. Though I think Clinton deserves at least the offer (if she's not the nominee, of course) given that the contest was so close. I personally have no clue if Clinton wants the job. I'd suspect not.

    I vote (5.00 / 3) (#122)
    by k on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:55:16 PM EST
    for President. It really doesn't matter to me who Obama picks he isn't qualified. Not yet at least.

    In addition, should he pick someone with a better resume it's only going to excentuate Obama's shortcomings and make the comparison to Bush/Cheney too obvious.

    Personally, I prefer the more qualified candidate at the top of the ticket. I do, however, think Obama would make a fine VP.

    In the event that Hillary suspends tomorrow (5.00 / 7) (#136)
    by MMW on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:00:29 PM EST
    I most likely will not be posting here for the foreseeable future So I'll give my two cents and speak for me only.

    If Obama is the nominee, then Obama is applying for the job of President, not his VP choice.

    Obama is unqualified to be President. He does not have the resume or policies or maturity for the job. I would vote McCain before I vote for him. I do not fear a McCain Presidency.

    As to calling myself a democrat, that will not happen again if Obama is the nominee. This election has taught me that the Democratic party leadership and I have no principles or values in common.

    I learned a long time ago that you teach people how to treat you by what you accept from them. I will not sanction or accept what has been done in the name of winning this primary.

    I will not support balless, spineless politicians who allowed Bush and his cabal to do their worst, but now have found their backbone against their own.

    What happened to the much vaunted 100 days after the 06 election? What happened to the new sheriff in town? What have they achieved?

    They're in fact still the do-nothing-congress.

    This is not my party.

    That holds for me as well (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:11:53 PM EST
    I agree with everything you said in spades!

    Parent
    I now longer care (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by jes on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:02:40 PM EST
    I think I am coming around to Jeralyn's position. No unity ticket.

    I like Clark. I don't think it will help much. If the polls are close in PA, I'll vote for him. Otherwise, I'll do only downticket.

    Whatever signals Clark as VP (5.00 / 4) (#145)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:04:01 PM EST
    would send to Clinton supporters, it would be nothing more than a smoke signal, and I would trust it to be about as sincere as "you're likeable enough, Hillary."

    The problem is that I have reached the point where I would no more be able to trust Obama than I could disown my grandmother.

    I am a Clark man myself. (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by AX10 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:05:04 PM EST
    Still, no sale for Obama.

    I will not be voting for Mr. Obama!

    Demonstrates whole new set of issues (5.00 / 5) (#156)
    by waldenpond on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:06:53 PM EST
    For Obama if these are the reasons to pick Clark

    He states: [T]he Clinton people need an incentive to work aggressively for the ticket, and Clark is that incentive.   Why does Obama need this? His specialty is GOTV.  

    Obama supporters hit Clinton for her vote on AUMF but contradict themselves in picking the guy that has her views? Clinton loyalist on national security issues that progressives have.  How does Obama pick someone who backs Clinton on FP and Iraq?  So now Clinton's decisions are ok?

    Obama is supposed to be a progressive but they are picking Clark because he is a progressive?  So is Obama progressive or not?

    Huh? (none / 0) (#191)
    by Laertes on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:21:08 PM EST
    "Obama is supposed to be a progressive but they are picking Clark because he is a progressive?  So is Obama progressive or not?"

    Why do you assume that a progressive wouldn't pick another progressive because he's progressive?  It's important that a VP be a pretty good ideological match for the President.

    The VP pick is important.  Harry Truman.  Richard Nixon.  Lyndon Johnson.  George H. W. Bush.  Al Gore.  When you pick a VP, you're very likely naming a future president.  It's important to pick someone who'll be up to the job, and who will take the party in a direction worth going.

    Look at how deep a bench the Democratic party had this year.  We had at least half a dozen candidates who'd have made good-to-excellent Presidents.  Had we really needed him, Al Gore would have been available.

    Now look at the sorry bunch of freaks, fakes, and has-beens that the Republicans ran.  A former mayor of New York.  A couple B-list governors.  Some washed-up old Senator.  Why did they have so little talent to draw on?  I'll give you three reasons:

    Dan Quayle
    Jack Kemp
    Dick Cheney

    They keep wasting the Vice Presidency.  Each of those picks made sense in the short term, but none of them had any positive long-term impact on the party.  Quayle was never a tiny bit significant even in office, and vanished from the national scene the instant his term ended.  Cheney of course is a towering figure, but he too will cease to matter on January 20.

    Clark would be a fantastic pick.  His biggest weakness--that he's a clumsy campaigner, would be largely mitigated by running alongside an effective campaigner like Obama.  And as a sitting VP in 2016, he'd be an instant frontrunner for the nomination, and would no doubt be a far more polished candidate after eight years of playing the game for high stakes.

    Parent

    The piece had multiple (none / 0) (#213)
    by waldenpond on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:33:02 PM EST
    reasons for picking Clark.  You give good reasons for the one, but what did you think of the others reasons they gave?  I thought they sounded odd.  Also, Clark is already 64. If McCain's age is an issue now, Clark's would be also.

    Parent
    Last I heard (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:12:37 PM EST
    Clark sold out and let his loyalty take precedence over his judgment.

    The progressive blogosphere's incoherence about Clark is just as pathetic as it's incoherence about Clinton herself.  On different terms he was clearly entertaining military action in Iraq.  And yes, he came out against the war as conceived by Bush and his cronies.

    So.   Now why would such an anti-war advocate endorse Clinton in the first place??????!!!!!!!

    Huh???

    Probably because every single pathetic minutia one hears on the internet about war support and anti-war activism is utter bullcrap.  That's why.

    Hey.  Whatever.

    Whatever keeps Obama from makin a royal mess of things, I'm all for it.  But I still won't vote for Obama.  He's on his own as far as November is concerned.

    Clark Would Be an Excellent Choice (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by BDB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:13:23 PM EST
    First, I have no doubt he would only take it with Clinton's consent.  

    Second, it would be hard to argue Clinton was not supporting Obama or was trying to divide the party if Clark were on the ticket since Clark would not accept without Clinton's blessing.  So it helps kill the Clinton is sabotaging Obama or Obama's loss is Clinton's fault.

    Third, it keeps Clinton's position with respect to the nomination in place.  If Obama melts down over the summer and the SDs are looking around for another choice - Clinton does not have to worry about Clark trying to wreak havoc (and neither does the party) and the party wouldn't have to worry about what to do with Obama's VP selection since Clinton/Clark works just fine (better from my standpoint).

    So all in all, I'd say a good choice for Obama, since Clark is a terrific man, a good choice for Clinton, and a good choice for the party.  

    Which, of course, is why it will never happen. :-)

    Since you ask what I think, BTD (5.00 / 5) (#180)
    by gandy007 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:14:16 PM EST
    I think it's a bit unseemly to project the inevitability of Obama being the nominee, IMHO, implicitly if not explicitly.

    As I understand it, there is not yet a nominee.  Seems premature to start the transition away from this being an essentially Pro Hillary until our dying breath site.

    I would prefer to consider Clark as VP for Hillary
    when the  SD's awaken from their insanity or when Obama self destructs.

    Now that would be my choice for a winning team.

    Quite honestly (5.00 / 5) (#181)
    by standingup on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:14:22 PM EST
    I now feel about as discouraged and apathetic toward politics as I did at the end of the 2000 election.  We have just lived through another period of Clinton hate and bashing, except this time the vitriol and lies were spread by the left.  The press still doesn't want to do the job of reporting the news and informing the public.  And we are stuck with two unacceptable choices for POTUS in the fall.  

    Obama could pick Daffy Duck and it wouldn't make any difference to me.  

    Sorry if this has been discussed (5.00 / 2) (#217)
    by jen on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:37:47 PM EST
    haven't read the thread yet. But. #1 - Obama thinks FP is his strong point -- why would he choose a VP that would contradict that point? and #2 - I admire and respect General Clark too much to want to see him in any way involved with the Obama campaign because when the real attacks finally start coming out against Obama, (i.e. when the truth of his multiple shady relationships that the media has so kindly glossed over are shown in full light) I believe his political career will be over.

    So no I don't think Obama would ask him, and if he did, I would hope Clark would politely refuse.

    As a former Clarkie...it would be a comedown for (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by SunnyLC on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:54:25 PM EST
    him to be VP to the likes of Obama.
    No thanks!

    Obama doesn't deserve Clark. (5.00 / 1) (#225)
    by Chimster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:55:39 PM EST
    Eventhough Clark's a military guy, he was a Rhodes scholar at Oxford University. Brilliant man. Non-politician type.

    How foolish will this get (5.00 / 1) (#227)
    by billyboy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 12:10:34 AM EST
    It is amazing how the democrats are able to eat themselves almost every 4 years.  To believe this site or dailykos that their chosen candidate is a saint and the other is all evil has to be the most foolish dimwitted example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Redstate is loving this and all of you with limited sight lines.  
    If any reasonalbe liberal, democrat or american is willing to really throw women's right to choose down the drain on "principle" the is there any there?  My lord, any one concerned and engaged enough with progressive thought and politics should run, not walk or jog, to try and end the horror of the last 8 years cause if for one moment you think McCain is better for this country than either Hillary or Barak you are sadly delusional.  At the very least let your least favorite democrat be elected for 4 years and then if your horror prediction comes true then vote them out with someone you told us all along was better.

    Ticket needs her (5.00 / 1) (#228)
    by fctchekr on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:50:04 AM EST
    Even Pro Obama CNN commented last night that Obama's weak finish does not bode well for November.

    I know it's not a welcome highlight of Obama's sputtering campaign, but it's the reality.

    Hillary's big wins continue to boost her viability.

    No question that only SHE can make the ticket come alive. She's been the one bringing the energy into the race since spring, not him.  

    Pundits keep talking about her baggage and I have to laugh, he's the newbie and he's got the worst baggage of all the candidates.

    Between the media snow job and Axelrod astroturfing, we've been handed a face and a name with very little substance.

    The ticket needs substance, it needs her.

    I can pretty much guarantee one thing (4.55 / 9) (#27)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:32:07 PM EST
    Having Clark on the ticket won't get the big dog out for him.  Bill, I believe, has signaled that if Hillary isn't the nominee, he's done campaigning.  

    I'm all for that.  Enjoy your retirement, Bill, and let the fools bury themselves.

    Ah, so that's what that was? (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:40:46 PM EST
    I've been paying not too much attention to any talk around that comment (and any MSM info). I was thinking it was because it's true. The primary campaigning stops after tomorrow.

    But if he is done if Hillary isn't the nom, so fine with me.

    Parent

    When I saw what Bill said (5.00 / 6) (#107)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:52:22 PM EST
    the first thought in my mind was a big FU to it all if Hillary isn't the nominee.  He has absolutely nothing to lose at this point, so why not?


    Parent
    The Big Dog has been savaged by Obama and (5.00 / 8) (#140)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:02:09 PM EST
    Obama's followers. It's one thing for the republicans to lie and slime, quite another for your friends.

    PResident Clinton deserves respect, he has earned it. And what did he get?

    well, it wasn't Shinola...

    Enjoy yourself, President Bill Clinton, if that's your choice. You have certainly earned that right.

    Parent

    I agree with you both. (5.00 / 4) (#188)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:20:16 PM EST
    I'm not looking forward to them using either Clinton. If he's the Unity Pony, he can have at it on his own, imo.

    Parent
    i was a clarkie when he ran. (4.00 / 3) (#6)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:24:10 PM EST
    i still have the tee shirt. he is a good man.

    Wes Clark (1.00 / 2) (#21)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:29:59 PM EST
    has been out of the public eye for over four years, and you're asking voters to support that ticket?

    Are you are crack?

    Parent

    actually no i am not asking anyone to (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:50:41 PM EST
    support the ticket. please review my comments.  i support hillary and will never ever support obama. i do however like clark although i know he ran a terrible race 4 years ago. that doesn't take away from the fact i still like him. it seems emotions are very high right now.

    Parent
    Clark would be a great choice.... (5.00 / 6) (#114)
    by p lukasiak on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:53:57 PM EST
    for Hillary.

    As for a choice for Obama, I don't think it matters.  He's gonna lose if he is the nominee.  

    Parent

    you have my second on that one. (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:58:23 PM EST
    Because Hillary has the (none / 0) (#151)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:05:25 PM EST
    experience and qualifications to be president, but I'm still not convinced Clark would be a good choice.  

    Parent
    frankly my deax i don't give a daxx! (none / 0) (#154)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:06:24 PM EST
    I'm delighted you like him. (none / 0) (#177)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:12:38 PM EST
    What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

    Parent
    sigh, this is the last time i'll explain it. (none / 0) (#186)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:18:28 PM EST
    look at comment #22. it is written to me when i said i like clark. your comment had a rude tone asking me if i was on crack. i hope that solves the question for you. please don't address me that way again. i haven't mistreated you or addressed posts like that to you. we all make mistakes with posts sometimes sent to the wrong person. i did it earlier today but i apologized and corrected my mistake.

    Parent
    A rude tone? (none / 0) (#196)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:23:31 PM EST
    It wasn't rude.  It was an honest question.

    Clark may be a nice guy, but he's military.

    Sorry, dude.

    Parent

    pie i am not a dude! (none / 0) (#203)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:26:20 PM EST
    and frankly you are being very rude with your comments about being on crack. take responsibility for what you write. it isn't btd's fault. i sick of hearing from you so can it, dude!

    Parent
    darn. (none / 0) (#33)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:33:08 PM EST
    on crack, obviously.

    It's a non-starter.

    Parent

    so is your response a non starter. (none / 0) (#153)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:05:55 PM EST
    it is not gracious, rude and uncalled for on here.

    Parent
    gyrfalcon, (none / 0) (#118)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:54:42 PM EST
    I'm sure Wes Clark is a good guy.  But I don't see him as a vice-presidential candidate.

    Parent
    Wes Clark is Epitome of Loyal (none / 0) (#168)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:10:45 PM EST
    I do not think he would accept the VP nomination as long as Hillary has not left the race.  I also think his talents would be best used in a cabinet position.  Query whether the Obama foreign policy, national security people and Clark are in sink on issues.  

    Parent
    i explained your misinterpretaton (none / 0) (#147)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:04:59 PM EST
    of my comment about clark. i am not on crack and don't appreciate your comment to that affect.  listen up and stop being rude.

    Parent
    Wait a minute. (none / 0) (#162)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:07:55 PM EST
    Who are you?

    Pick one posting name, will you, please?

    You may like Clark.  I like him, too.  But he's been out of the political arena for four years.

    There's no way he can help anyone's ticket.

    Parent

    please go back and look at who you wrote (none / 0) (#165)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:09:47 PM EST
    that comment about being on crack to pie. it was addressed to me. i don't support obama and don't have to be insulted by you because i like clark.

    Parent
    I blame BTD for this, (none / 0) (#185)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:16:39 PM EST
    :)

    This was a post about Clark being a VP candidate.

    Accolades aside, not a good idea.

    Parent

    I love Wes Clark (none / 0) (#127)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:57:15 PM EST
    I was for him in 2004 too.  I think he'd be a great choice for VP.  

    I'm still on his mailing list.  

    Parent

    What qualifications (none / 0) (#137)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:01:20 PM EST
    and experience does he have to hold the second-highest office?

    Parent
    I hope he picks the Kansas Governor (4.00 / 3) (#98)
    by Mrwirez on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:50:10 PM EST
    Kathleen Sebelius and royally p!sses off all you ladies and us guys  more, then promptly loses. We then wait until 2012... Thats MY Goal.
    Obama=Loss

    I like how certain folks... (1.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Addison on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:57:15 PM EST
    ...are still acting as if this sort of comment is still generally approved of. You hope Obama chooses a VP merely so he'll lose? Do you think enough people at this blog are on the McCain bus to keep your idiotic comment covered in the weeds? You'll be classified as a chatterer soon enough.

    Parent
    You're boy ain't won Jack yet (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by Mrwirez on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:02:14 PM EST
    If I get kicked out so be it. I support Clinton only...Go to Kos for cooing over Obama...

    Parent
    I would love to see (5.00 / 5) (#157)
    by stillife on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:06:57 PM EST
    an Obama/Sebellius ticket.  The Ambien ticket!  Zzzzz.....

    Parent
    Okay (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:02:46 PM EST
    You are really proving the ironic point. Sebelius has been seriously offered up as a possible choice.  

    You're almost showing how feeble you think  Obama really is.

    Obama has to carry the ticket. No one else--not Clinton or Clark or Edwards or Rendell etc can do that.  

    The party kinda messed up here. Big time.

    Parent

    He is (5.00 / 5) (#158)
    by Mrwirez on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:07:02 PM EST
    She may just beat him again tomorrow too. When was the last presumptive nominee gets his a$$ handed to him for the last 8 or 10 primary elections?  UNHEARD OF. The SD will push Obama through and will make a really bad decision.

    blue collar/union, women, older voters, Latinos, rural voters...
    They are making a BIG mistake

    AA's and Eggheads....I don't think so.

    Parent

    No... (3.00 / 2) (#161)
    by Addison on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:07:53 PM EST
    ...maybe Sebelius is a possibility (my least favorite of all possibilities, and one that polling already out will preclude), but that is hardly the point.

    The point I was obviously making was:

    The commenter seems to think that (a) she will cause Obama to lose and therefore (b) the commenter wants Obama to pick her and thus (c) lose to McCain.

    An alphabetical, logical dead end on this blog, I think.

    Parent

    This has nothing to do with McCain. (3.66 / 3) (#183)
    by Mrwirez on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:15:10 PM EST
    I ONLY support Clinton... I will not vote at all or just down ticket.
    It is to show the party leaders they F'ed up, and jammed it up the Clinton's A$$... NO RESPECT

    2000=Count all the votes!!-Count all the votes!!-Count all the votes!!

    2008=Count some of the votes or half the votes....screw it none of the votes...

    Parent

    LOL (none / 0) (#207)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:27:38 PM EST
    It was the placate the women strategery then wasn't it? I wonder which particular demographic they are looking to mollify with Clark?

    Psssst, someone tell Stoller it would have been smarter not to have been such a boor DURING the primary.

    There isn't a potential VP out there that can undo the damage that has been done. Even with Hillary it would be a stretch.  

    Parent

    Lou Dobbs reported (5.00 / 2) (#211)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:31:49 PM EST
    that Floridians are furious at the Dem Party for giving them only 1/2 votes. Was is the basis of this claim other than anecdotals?

    Parent
    Clark is a good choice ... (4.00 / 1) (#167)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:10:44 PM EST
    for burnishing the national security creds of Obama.  He's a progressive.  And a Clinton supporter.

    And I like him.

    All good things.

    Problem:  He's not a very good politician.  

    Never happen (4.00 / 4) (#205)
    by Firefly4625 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:26:56 PM EST
    Wes doesn't like Obama - he's seen all the dirty, filthy things Obama and his campaign and his minions in the media and on the blogs have done to Hillary - and her supporters - from the inside.

    Besides, I think he's gonna be Hill's VP - she's gonna take the nomination and the White House.


    Too intimidating a choice (3.33 / 3) (#218)
    by Barbara D on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:39:35 PM EST
    I don't think that BHO will pick Wes Clark or HRC for VP because they both would be too intimidating for him. Both are more qualified to be president.

    I suspect he will choose someone for short-term political gain, e.g., Bill Richardson who would help with the western states or Jim Webb who would help with Virginia.

    From HRC supporters' perspective, either would be a poor choice. The nature of Richardson's defection and Webb's (non)handling of the Tailhook scandal would only further alienate Clinton supporters. The  problem is that BHO supporters don't think they need HRC supporters. They think they can win with their new post-Clinton Democratic Party.

    Short-term gain is his political MO. From having his opponents removed from the ballot in Illinois to dividing the Democratic Party along racial and gender lines to accusing his opponent of wishing him dead for saying the word assassination, this is a guy who will truly do anything to win.

    Will Clark Allow Himself To Be Used By Obama? (3.00 / 2) (#199)
    by OxyCon on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:25:12 PM EST
    That is all Obama ever does to people, as far as I can see, is use them to help him get what he wants, to step upwards and feed his ego and powerlust.

    Look at Obama's accomplishments and look at his achievements. Somehow he has been able to consistently achieve higher levels of public office, without ever accomplishing anything considered notable. Why is that? Why is it that the playing field always seems to get cleared so that he can step higher?

    Why all the hate? (2.75 / 4) (#209)
    by IowaDem on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:28:52 PM EST
    I have a question for those of you who said you would "never ever" support Barack Obama in the general election if he is in fact the Democratic nominee: Why?  Why would you support one Democratic presidential candidate but not the other?  Don't you share their progressive values?  If you do then why not support one or the other in the general election?  From what I've seen, they differ very little in their campaign stances, and I have seen very little to deter me from either candidate, though I think the media dropped the ball in some ways, I think that neither campaign has been particularly outrageous in any way.  So why not support one as the general election candidate if the other loses?  It's become increasingly depressive for me to see these divisions...but I still think we should support our progressive values and not indulge in the personal attacks and hate, and support whomever is the general election nominee of the Democratic party.

    BTD - I hope you read this because it is (2.50 / 2) (#222)
    by nulee on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:27:55 PM EST
    at the end of the thread, but you have been a real stickler for the legality issues regarding RBC, why not the same here (and my apologies if this is upthread and I missed it in my skim)?

    As I understand it, selection of VP is technically NOT the choice of the nominee, it is by vote at the convention.  In this odd situation of a virtual tie right now, why, is there not more discussion of the fact that VP may not be BO's choice, should he even be the nominee?

    Blame Game (1.00 / 3) (#220)
    by IowaDem on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:01:22 PM EST
    People are aloud to point fingers, but I would personally like to know what Obama did to garner so much hate here...especially seeing as I've seen nothing so far in the campaign that would really, in my opinion, tarnish his image...nothing he nor his surrogates has said.

    Also: Obama never inserted Race or Gender into this campaign, and if you think he did, I would like a specific example, otherwise please stop spreading this untruth.

    (Also: I would like to proudly note, that whomever wins the Democratic nomination is the candidate in November is who I will vote for, because I truly believe in my progressive values, and would never abandon them (progressive values) because if I did that would make me equal to Republicans).

    I was not really invested in the 2004 (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:20:49 PM EST
    nomination race--I was in High School! But I remember thinking that Edwards seemed like a good candidate, because I knew that southern Democrats were an easier sell. . .

    Anyway, I know that BTD is an old Clark booster, and I had the opportunity to finally sit down and see Clark when he gave an interview to Charlie Rose last year. I was very impressed. Between the personality and the positions, I think Clark would be an excellent VP, and I fully endorse what Stoller says, though I doubt that Clark can heal the demographic wounds.

    I guess to be more responsive to your question (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:22:58 PM EST
    I'm sure that Stoller is right about the message a Clark VP nod would send to Clinton insiders, but I'm not sure how much that would help in the grand scheme. The concern is with Clinton Democrats, Hillary's rank-and-file.

    Parent
    yeah, really (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by hlr on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:32:05 PM EST
    let's all gather around and discuss what's best to make the Clinton insiders feel good ... unless you're one of them, you probably don't care.

    Parent
    the idea (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:33:24 PM EST
    of course is that this is done with Clinton's public  blessing.

    Parent
    you're a designated driver right? (5.00 / 5) (#46)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:36:43 PM EST
    Th guy in the room who isn't taking the acid just to make sure everyone is kept safe.

    I'm sure you can patch it up, and keep a catastrophe from happen and make it a misfortune instead.

    Parent

    hahaha. I'm so glad you came over here. (5.00 / 6) (#66)
    by Teresa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:42:52 PM EST
    That's funny. I do think BTD is the only objective person left in the country at this point. I'm not sure even he understands the bitterness but I give him lots of credit for trying.

    Parent
    I did have the heart to argue... (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:49:35 PM EST
    ...after Dkos went mental over Tuzla. Too much stress. It's a nice place to hang out for a bit.

    The Northern Ireland stitchup where they were quoting Orangemen in Ulster was my wakeup call. Never trust those proddy b'stards. I'll take the word of a Clinton over that of a UVF/UDF General.

    Parent

    I don't think he'd take it, (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:56:12 PM EST
    I don't think she'd give her blessing, altho' he could just accept if if offered, but I don't believe his ideas and Obama's are in any way similar. Obama wants to do everything himself.

    Parent
    That would sicken me. (none / 0) (#44)
    by masslib on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:36:15 PM EST
    Whatever. (none / 0) (#45)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:36:22 PM EST
    He'll be an invisible man in an Obama White House.

    Pfui.

    Parent

    rank-and-file - exactly (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by talex on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:39:45 PM EST
    On top of that after reading Stoller for long enough it is safe to say that he is always up to mischief or trying to work some kind of angle. That is what he doing here. It's pretty plain to see that he knows Obama's chances without Clinton are slim to none because he knows Clinton is the best candidate.

    So this is his way of getting Clinton on the ticket without actually putting Clinton on the ticket. Over at Openleft they just can't stand the thought of endorsing Clinton so this is purely a back door play to keep from eating humble pie. I'm pretty sure the Clinton people will see this in the same way I am describing here.

    I hope if Clark is asked he tells them he would be happy to take SecOfDefense - Only If - Clinton is the VP.

    Parent

    Obama Clyburn? (none / 0) (#74)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:44:51 PM EST
    or Obama Fiengold?  or Obama Pelosi?

    It would keep everything ideologically and stylistically consistent.

    Parent

    None of those three (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by talex on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:51:11 PM EST
    would bring in the Clinton people either inside her inner circle or the voters themselves.

    Parent
    It's a joke (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:58:59 PM EST
    He should pick one of his prominent backers. No personality totally dependent on him.  No real skillz.

    Parent
    Re 2004 Dem. primaries--I'm w/you (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:25:52 PM EST
    and, believe me, I wasn't in high school.  Tuned in to find our why my formerly very liberal adult daughter was supporting Bush.  

    Parent
    You were in high school (none / 0) (#13)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:27:22 PM EST
    in 2004?

    Um...

    Parent

    Yup (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:28:49 PM EST
    I graduated that June.

    Parent
    How old are you? (none / 0) (#24)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:31:27 PM EST
    22. What's the difference? (none / 0) (#31)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:32:45 PM EST
    I think we're veering way off topic.

    Parent
    We're veering (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:34:38 PM EST
    into an iceberg.

    Parent
    Well, I'm a Clarkie through and through (none / 0) (#11)
    by Dave B on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:26:13 PM EST
    So, this is the one choice that would get me to the polls in November.  And to think I was initially upset at Wes for endorsing Hillary.

    Why are you a "clarkie"through (none / 0) (#133)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:59:13 PM EST
    and through!! What does Wes Clarke bring to the table for Obama?

    Parent
    I've argued for Clark as surrogate here n/t (none / 0) (#17)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:28:27 PM EST


    Clark is not a second fiddle guy... (none / 0) (#35)
    by citizen53 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:33:50 PM EST
    from what I know.  But who knows where Obama will go.

    Personally, my intuition tells me Daschle.  Look at how many Daschle people are involved in the Obama campaign.

    Ugh (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:35:34 PM EST
    I hope Hillary will use the threat of going to the convention to keep Daschle off the ticket.

    Parent
    If she's as evil as (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:38:28 PM EST
    everyone believes, why wouldn't she want Daschle on the ticket?

    Parent
    You may ugh... (none / 0) (#68)
    by citizen53 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:43:43 PM EST
    but I think Daschle is the brains behind Obama and would be a steadying influence in terms of judgment and working the system.  That is the aspect where Obama is weakest.  Clark has no experience in this area.

    Daschle served in the military and was a good senator from a red state.  Unfortunately, he assumed leadership when the country was under the spell of Bush and 9-11.

    Obama could do much worse.

    Parent

    married to a famous lobby member (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:55:04 PM EST
    But he's clearly the brain trust with Obama.

    Parent
    Can't Deliver (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Athena on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:38:18 PM EST
    But Obama will lose South Dakota.  That makes Daschle perfect.

    Parent
    It will be a huge (5.00 / 4) (#59)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:39:51 PM EST
     laugh if SD goes to Hillary, with Daschle so vocal in the Obama campaign.  That'll be just GREAT!

    Parent
    It's not about delivering a state... (none / 0) (#76)
    by citizen53 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:45:36 PM EST
    but finding someone who can help in governing.

    Parent
    Yes, now if only the media would (none / 0) (#97)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:49:49 PM EST
    realize this isn't about entertainment.

    They are picking the candidates based on what they want to talk about! And a whole bunch of people are going along.

    Parent

    God forbid. n/t (none / 0) (#82)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:46:40 PM EST
    Better than Clark in my view (none / 0) (#112)
    by citizen53 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:53:16 PM EST
    Frankly, I don't see the basis for the antipathy.

    This would increase Obama's stature to me.

    Parent

    Any former high-profile general... (none / 0) (#88)
    by Addison on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:48:03 PM EST
    ...has proven his or herself to be a second fiddle guy.

    Parent
    MacArthur? (none / 0) (#124)
    by citizen53 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:56:00 PM EST
    Some generals know how to take orders better than others.

    I think Clark in Kosovo showed some MacArthur, and he was not held in such high esteem by many of his peers.

    Parent

    Yes... (none / 0) (#131)
    by Addison on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:58:57 PM EST
    ...well, I can't fault you on the MacArthur reference, you're right there. But Clark isn't MacArthur, and if he's proven a good Clinton surrogate I don't doubt his ego is controlled enough to prove a good surrogate for whatever cause he's fighting for.

    Parent
    My intuition tells me Pelosi! (none / 0) (#135)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:00:22 PM EST
    Clark as VP would be easier (none / 0) (#51)
    by brodie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:38:14 PM EST
    for me to personally assimilate and it would avoid those expensive therapist bills to recover from the mind-messing cognitive dissonance that would come with a Hillary pick.

    O/Clark would also be sending an olive branch to the Hillary wing.

    Could be other far worse picks -- Gov Judas, Sam None, Hégel.

    Still, Clark is hardly more than a political rookie and didn't exactly impress in his brief 04 run, stumbling badly coming out of the blocks.  He's smart and brings nat'l security gravitas, but isn't deeply steeped in many domestic issues.

    He also doesn't strike me, nice guy that he is with the smooth even-keeled demeanor, as the sort of aggressive attack dog we'll need in the Veep slot.

    Better than some, but maybe not as good as others for VP.

    I think it would really depend... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:38:47 PM EST
    ... on how the Clintons (and yes, far more Hillary than Bill) felt about it. If it came with another "Judas" reaction like Richardson, it would do more harm than good. But if Hillary really isn't that interested in being Vice President, and gave it her seal of a approval, I think Clark would be a good unifying choice, as someone squarely in the Clinton camp who hasn't especially antagonized the Obama camp.

    I've been saying for a while now that (none / 0) (#65)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:41:43 PM EST
    I think Clark would be a great VP pick - much better than anyone that the Obama campaign has floated so far imo.

    Clark (none / 0) (#79)
    by Addison on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:45:57 PM EST
    My only reason for supporting a unity ticket is electoral success. If Edwards or Clark prove they have a substantial draw (Edwards already has, to my neverending shock) they immediately leap over Clinton as a VP choice.

    I don't see much of a downside to Clark, actually. I disagree with some of what happened in Kosovo (which wasn't Clark's fault in any case), but most of America doesn't care or remember. He's been on the talk/news show circuit since his 2004 run, and now he's likely a much better speaker than he was back then. My only concern would be his ability to speak on a breadth of issues against the GOP's VP candidate. Could he match Jindal for instance (not that I think Jindal will be VP, this is just an illustration) on various narrative and social issues? I'd need to see that, I guess, before I'm be completely comfortable.

    I think Edwards value goes down (none / 0) (#146)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:04:55 PM EST
    as reality wears on. Sounds good to them now, but . . . what does he really bring to the ticket?

    Parent
    A simple narrative (none / 0) (#159)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:07:13 PM EST
    The reconcilliation of blacks and southern whites.  The press would love it.

    Parent
    Edwards is hardly untested... (none / 0) (#172)
    by Addison on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:11:48 PM EST
    ...people know him. He's not a newbie whose numbers will go down much, I think.

    I am truly, and neverendingly shocked that he has a draw above and beyond Obama's. By like 8 points! But there it stands.

    Parent

    Jindal is a Republican (none / 0) (#155)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:06:50 PM EST
    so he'd be just perfect for the unity pony  :-)

    Parent
    I obviously meant in VP debates. (none / 0) (#166)
    by Addison on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:09:54 PM EST
    I disagree with some of what happened (none / 0) (#189)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:20:25 PM EST
    In Kosovo too.

    Damn.  When is everything in the world gonna be just perfect?

    That's right.  When Obama's president.

    Parent

    Unhelpful weirdness, Edgar... (1.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Addison on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:23:55 PM EST
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#214)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:33:12 PM EST
    At least we agree the things we found disagreeable wasn't Clark's fault.


    Parent
    Hmmm... (none / 0) (#201)
    by Addison on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:25:40 PM EST
    ...let me pre-emptively apologize for that comment. It was overly nasty and equally as unhelpful as the comment it was in reply to.

    Edgar, you're comment was off-topic and wasn't helpful for the conversation.

    Parent

    A decent choice, it seems (none / 0) (#80)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:46:07 PM EST
    knowing what I know about Clark, but does he like campaigning?  Would he be up for it?  Can he hammer on the economy and healthcare as effectively as Clinton?  The fact that Stoller likes him means basically nothing to me.  We've all seen how progressive can mean anything from social security is on the table to single payer healthcare.

    Clark didn't get a ton of votes in 2004.  Can he connect?  Is he only going to play into McCain's desire to make this election about national security?  

    Clinton is better...


    Oh and BTD, your link is broken (none / 0) (#92)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:48:49 PM EST


    Clark as VP (none / 0) (#116)
    by Laertes on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:54:17 PM EST
    This Obama supporter loves Clark.  I was a Clarkie in '04, and I was hoping he'd run this time.  He's a first-rate mind.  I love reading interviews with the man.  He talks like he assumes his audience is Really Smart and he never dumbs down his lines.  The command of subject matter that he always displays suggests a professor who's been teaching the class for years.

    He's a thoroughly impressive man, and I'd be thrilled to see him on the ticket.  Seems almost too good to be true.

    Sadly, this (none / 0) (#134)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:00:09 PM EST
    is the quality that makes me wonder:

    He talks like he assumes his audience is Really Smart and he never dumbs down his lines.

    Is that what Obama needs?  Does Clark connect with working-class voters?

    Parent

    Clark would be automatically respected (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:05:02 PM EST
    as a top brass officer.

    But he's prosecuted a war.  He's not what the Militant wannabe's want.

    Parent

    I don't know (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Laertes on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:07:58 PM EST
    That's a really good question.  I don't know.  I love it, though, and I suspect that Obama and Clark would find a lot of common ground.  Listening to either of them, or Hillary Clinton for that matter, I'm struck by how refreshing it is to hear someone speak who doesn't talk to me like I'm an idiot.  They sound like serious professionals, who approach a subject by first learning everything they can about it, then thinking really hard and talking to smart people.

    After eight years of a retarded chimpanzee as President, it'll be nice the grown-ups back in there.  During the Clinton years I always felt like Smart People Were On The Job.  I miss that a lot.

    Parent

    thats it just erase thought!! (none / 0) (#190)
    by Mrwirez on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:20:32 PM EST


    I forget who said it in (none / 0) (#200)
    by dk on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:25:29 PM EST
    the comments here the other day, but asking Hillary supporters about Clarke as VP is premature.

    Nothing would work until Obama really sacrifices for the sake of party unity.  Sacrifice means demonstrably taking an action that we know he would not otherwise want to do.  Asking Clarke to be VP, in and of itself, is not such a sacrifice.  

    Having Hillary on the ticket might be such a sacrifice, though frankly I'm not even sure about that.  I think a bigger sacrifice would be admitting, for example, that Hillary's health care proposal is preferable to his, and adopting it as his own policy, with the Democratic party making signals that Hillary will be senate majority leader.  I really think you would need something that big....if, of course, Obama actually ends up with the nomination.

    BTD: I doubt Clark would want to be (none / 0) (#219)
    by BestinShow on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:01:18 PM EST
    Obama's VP.  I get the feeling he wants Sec. of Defence. The military (notably the army) needs fixin' after 8 years of Bush/Rummy/Iraq/Afg. This is where Clark's heart is.

    No military men (none / 0) (#221)
    by SoCali on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:13:54 PM EST
    I am not passing judgment on Clark's character. But we have almost passed the point of no return in the nexus between government, corporations and the military. We need to take measured steps away from the precipice.  

    Not horribly bad. (none / 0) (#224)
    by TOI on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:15:59 PM EST
    Well, not horribly bad.

    Sorry BTD (none / 0) (#226)
    by CognitiveDissonance on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 12:03:44 AM EST
    He could pick Bill as his VP and I still wouldn't vote for him. At this point, there is little anyone could say that would ever convince me that he wouldn't be a huge disaster - either as the President, or as the loser in November.