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Krugman A Must Read Today: What Obama Must Do

Big Tent Democrat wrote about this earlier, but I want to add my thoughts. Paul Krugman's column today, Thinking About November, is excellent. If Obama is the nominee, he says there are a lot of reasons Democrats should sail to an presidential win November. Then he says there is one stumbling block and opines it's a big one:

the fight for the nomination has divided the party along class and race lines in a way that I believe is unprecedented, at least in modern times. Ironically, much of Mr. Obama’s initial appeal was the hope that he could transcend these divisions. At first, voting patterns seemed consistent with this hope. In February, for example, he received the support of half of Virginia’s white voters as well as that of a huge majority of African-Americans.

But this week, Mr. Obama, while continuing to win huge African-American majorities, lost North Carolina whites by 23 points, Indiana whites by 22 points. Mr. Obama’s white support continues to be concentrated among the highly educated; there was little in Tuesday’s results to suggest that his problems with working-class whites have significantly diminished.

In other words, [More...]

Mr. Obama appears to have won the nomination with a deep but narrow base consisting of African-Americans and highly educated whites. And now he needs to bring Democrats who opposed him back into the fold.

Among his solutions is one you read all the time in the comments at TalkLeft.

More tirades from Obama supporters against Mrs. Clinton are not the answer — they will only further alienate her grass-roots supporters, many of whom feel that she received a raw deal.

Nor is it helpful to insult the groups that supported Mrs. Clinton, either by suggesting that racism was their only motivation or by minimizing their importance.

He also has an accurate warning for David Axlerod and Donna Brazile:

After the Pennsylvania primary, David Axelrod, Mr. Obama’s campaign manager, airily dismissed concerns about working-class whites, saying that they have “gone to the Republican nominee for many elections.” On Tuesday night, Donna Brazile, the Democratic strategist, declared that “we don’t have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics.” That sort of thing has to stop.

And about Michigan and Florida:

One thing the Democrats definitely need to do is give delegates from Florida and Michigan — representatives of citizens who voted in good faith, and whose support the party may well need this November — seats at the convention.

Let me just add, they need to count the delegates from these states in the vote and pledged and superdelegate totals before the nominee is chosen.

Krugman concluded:

The point is that Mr. Obama has an extraordinary opportunity in this year’s election. He should do everything possible to avoid squandering it.

On a related note, I'm getting a lot of e-mails asking whether TalkLeft will begin advocating against McCain once the nominee is chosen. The answer is, of course. We have always said that we will support whoever the Democratic nominee is. Any Democrat is light-years better than McCain.

There is no nominee yet. There is a "likely" nominee. But it's not a done deal and Hillary is still in the race.

Anything can happen and so long as she remains in the race, I'll keep writing about why she's a great candidate and why I think she's the better candidate to beat McCain.

Should Obama become the nominee, not just in the opinion of the media, but in reality, then I'll start concentrating on defeating McCain. It's not time yet. The problem that Krugman describes is one worthy of consideration before the nomination is decided.

< Ted Kennedy's Divisive Rhetoric | Reveling In The Demise of Their Relevance >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Right on! (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by mg7505 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:52:41 PM EST
    But I wish Krugman had been more forceful in calling out Axelrod and Brazile.

    That would've undermined his point... (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Addison on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:56:08 PM EST
    ...about the need for unity, though. You can't violently call people out, say it's for unity's sake -- or insult them and say you're a protector of party decorum -- and expect that to fly.

    [ Parent ]
    And even then (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Edgar08 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:12:36 PM EST
    It's not like Axlrod or Brazille would consider the advice anyway.

    [ Parent ]
    They would beat (none / 0) (#23)
    by Salo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:16:36 PM EST
    him out of his job a Princeton.

    [ Parent ]
    In Other Words, Krugman Sees The Same (5.00 / 7) (#2)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:54:29 PM EST
    problem most of the informed, logical electorate sees as the problem for obama.  I really can't see how he is going to overcome this obstacle.  Sorry, obama people, but we need Hillary more than ever.

    Krugman.. (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Adept Havelock on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:58:07 PM EST
    Hits it squarely on the nailhead.  mh7505, I agree.  Someone needs to slap a muzzle on those two (at a minimum).

    Jeralyn, FWIW I had no doubts you would be working for the Dem nominee once there is one.  I've been a fan of your blog for a long time, though only an occasional poster.  Once my "stimulus" check arrives and I can spare a little cash, I'll certainly be making a contribution.

    In 3 words, Dems: Join Or Die (5.00 / 0) (#5)
    by scribe on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:00:16 PM EST
    It's really that simple.

    And it's that grave.

    And, if the egomaniacs who think themselves in charge don't get that, they need to smell the coffee now or get out of the way of those of us who do.

    er no. (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Salo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:17:10 PM EST
    be more clear.

    [ Parent ]
    uh, i'm not joining when the people (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by kangeroo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:18:29 PM EST
    asking are 3rd party hijackers.  i'd like to get the hijackers off the plane first, and then resume course toward the white house.

    [ Parent ]
    Right, and besides, if Democrats (none / 0) (#211)
    by Iris on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:35:07 PM EST
    control Congress they should have the spine to protect reproductive rights against any McCain SCOTUS appointees.  Two good posts from Reclusive Leftist come to mind:

    http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=913

    http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=845

    Sen. Barack Obama had hired Pete Rouse for just such a moment.

    It was the fall of 2005, and the celebrated young senator -- still new to Capitol Hill but aware of his prospects for higher office -- was thinking about voting to confirm John G. Roberts Jr. as chief justice. Talking with his aides, the Illinois Democrat expressed admiration for Roberts's intellect. Besides, Obama said, if he were president he wouldn't want his judicial nominees opposed simply on ideological grounds.

    And then Rouse, his chief of staff, spoke up. This was no Harvard moot-court exercise, he said. If Obama voted for Roberts, Rouse told him, people would remind him of that every time the Supreme Court issued another conservative ruling, something that could cripple a future presidential run. Obama took it in. And when the roll was called, he voted no.

    Maybe that's why he doesn't want to be dependent on the 'old coalition' anymore?

    Of course all this calls into question why so little has been achieved by this year's Congress, and part of the reason was that we showed them we'd vote for Lieberman no matter what policies they signed onto.

    We need to draw a line & show them that it won't work anymore.

    [ Parent ]

    tell it to the Obama camp (5.00 / 4) (#153)
    by angie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:00:00 PM EST
    their the ones who keep saying they don't want us women, Latinos or the working class.

    [ Parent ]
    er, no... (none / 0) (#281)
    by chrisblask on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:36:59 PM EST
    Sorry you read it that way, but the women and latinos I work with in Obama volunteer groups don't feel the same way (I can speak for the working class myself - highschool dropout here, though mowing grass to put myself through college may disqualify me?).

    In fact, I can bring you representatives of any demographic you want to talk to who are avid Obama volunteers.

    If there is any perception that the Obama camp is exclusive of anyone, I apologize on behalf of the entire 600,000 volunteers for making you feel that way.  It is certainly quite the opposite of every intent of the entire campaign.

    -cheers

    -chris

    [ Parent ]

    The first thing Obama and his supporters can do (5.00 / 12) (#8)
    by Palomino on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:05:46 PM EST
    is to take responsibility for handing the next presidential election to John McCain. Too many people who form too much of the Democratic Party's base have been too insulted by the Obama Movement to feel that voting for its leader would be an act compatible with personal integrity. If you'd rather lose with Obama than win with Clinton, then have fun reaping the whirlwind.

    McCain (5.00 / 7) (#73)
    by Palomino on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:29:58 PM EST
    is a formidable candidate. (Sorry, can't agree with Michelle O., who looks at McCain and says, "Oh yeah, we got 'im.") Either of the two would have a hard time beating McCain this year, believe it or not. And if the Democratic leadership would rather "realign" the party than go with the candidate who clearly runs stronger across the board, fine, but don't expect to win, especially when the "realignment" involves a cavalier jettisoning of so much of the party's base. I'm not taking my ball home. Clearly, it's not my ball anymore. I'm just turning my back on the third-party movement that hijacked my party.

    [ Parent ]
    Agreed - what point would there be (5.00 / 1) (#240)
    by Iris on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:51:58 PM EST
    in having a Democratic party that is in no way beholden to working class voters?  It already takes them for granted, this just makes things worse.

    [ Parent ]
    your response ignores the facts preceding (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by kangeroo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:31:40 PM EST
    your implied cease-fire.  god, it's like japan saying immediately after pearl harbor, "what're you getting all worked up about--can't we all just get along?  we have bigger fish to fry here."

    [ Parent ]
    the only thing Obama has promised (5.00 / 2) (#216)
    by angie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:37:02 PM EST
    on your list is getting out of Iraq -- not UHC, not the middle class (yeah, he's said that, but his vote for tort reform and against a cap on credit card interest rates belie his words). true, he does say he will "rebuild America's standing among our allies" HA! The guy hasn't even been to Europe (shades of W) -- I'm sure he means well, bless his heart, but the "old world" can tell a novice when they see one, and they certainly will not respect him -- especially one who says he will sit down with despots with no preconditions.

    [ Parent ]
    Getting out of Iraq (5.00 / 2) (#245)
    by hookfan on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:54:01 PM EST
    isn't clear either. Remember Powers? And don't forget voting for refunding whenever it came up. Obama never put the money where his mouth was.

    [ Parent ]
    how about the fp advisor (5.00 / 2) (#262)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:08:11 PM EST
    for Obama who met with Hamas?

    Oh, he's fired him now, but what message was this advisor sent early on that it was okay to meet with Hamas?

    The hubris is absolutely shocking.

    [ Parent ]

    that's funny. obama doesn't give (5.00 / 4) (#241)
    by kangeroo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:52:08 PM EST
    a CRAP about health care.  if he did, he wouldn't be siding with the health insurance companies' position against hillary.

    and he doesn't care about iraq either, except as a convenient, self-serving way to pander misleadingly to unsuspecting anti-war voters.  he's demonstrated no meaningful commitment to rebuilding the middle class, and frankly i think he'd fail miserably at rebuilding america's standing--which is in shambles right now and requires the strong, steady, and capable hand of an experienced leader.  

    obama is an empty suit.  he fails on important policy values, on commitment to those values, and on ability to carry any of them out to fruition.  in fact, throughout his campaign he's actively and deliberately undermined fundamental party principles--including commitment to the working class and to interracial unity--in many ways.

    don't tell me obama's on my side.

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry victor9000 (5.00 / 4) (#267)
    by cal1942 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:09:44 PM EST
    the objectives are not the same.  The Obama group wants to shrink the middle class by ignoring all those pesky worker types.  If you don't feel they're a worthwhile constituency then you won't champion their needs.

    Tossing aside an important constituency like blue collar workers does not rebuild the middle class it shrinks the middle class. Blue collar workers are not just the constituency of a given political party they are a vital constituent of the nation.

    Inasmuch as health care (assuming you mean UHC) is concerned Obama's proposals actually don't include UHC, confirmed by his backer John Kerry who said that UHC is a non-starter in the Senate.

    The idea that both candidates have identical programs is one of the great myths of this campaign.

    Indications are not just that the Obama group dismisses workers. Obama's own economics team consists of free market, free trade ideologues who would be comfortable working for conservative Republicans.  At least one of those team members, Jeffrey Liebman, is an advocate of Social Security privatization. The soul of any candidate is revealed by their chosen policy team. Policy gave Bush away in 2000 but too many people put surface personality above clearly stated policy. We ignore those important details at our peril.

    For myself, I will not be a party to dragging the Democratic Party farther to the right.

    [ Parent ]

    That is an excellent analogy... n/t (none / 0) (#215)
    by Rainsong on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:36:35 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    That's a very pretty theory (none / 0) (#300)
    by Nadai on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:52:23 PM EST
    but, so far at least, the facts have not borne it out.

    [ Parent ]
    They haven't, of course.... (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:03:22 PM EST
    .... handed the election to McCain. Not yet. They need to take responsibility for risking doing so, and seek to prevent it. Obama will not win the election without at least a healthy minority of working class white and hispanic voters and senior citizens, and his surrogates need to stop acting like he can, and like he wants to.

    [ Parent ]
    Sounds like the old (none / 0) (#314)
    by delacarpa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:47:04 PM EST
    You think! The old one will win it anyway to my disheartment.

    [ Parent ]
    Facts (5.00 / 9) (#9)
    by Athena on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:05:58 PM EST
    Why can we talk about how women and men vote - but not how the races vote?  The attacks against Hillary for her fact-based observations are nothing new - she gets blasted just for existing.

    I took a break from TL yesterday (5.00 / 12) (#11)
    by Edgar08 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:08:02 PM EST
    And my world didn't fall apart, so I think it's worth pointing out there will be some who will continue to criticize Obama even after he becomes the nominee in reality.

    My impression of him certainly won't change.  Not initially, although I like to say there are some things he could do to change my impression of him (disown his supporters who are hateful towards Clinton), but anyway, I digress.

    Bottom line is what becomes of those of us who continue to criticize Obama after he becomes the nominee?  When criticizing him will be more tacitly defined as support for McCain (even if it's not!)

    At that point, I don't expect I'll be posting here anymore.

    It's not a huge thing.  What TL loses in Pro-Clinton folks they'll gain in Pro-Obama folks who will then regard TL as a Pro-Obama blog.

    Don't go Edgar! (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Dr Molly on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:16:13 PM EST
    I always appreciate your heartfelt comments. I don't know what Jeralyn would say, but I would hope she is open to all viewpoints here even after the nominee is decided.

    [ Parent ]
    A lot of what I'd have to say (5.00 / 3) (#112)
    by Edgar08 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:40:37 PM EST
    Would put any blog dedicated to defeating McCain in a difficult position.

    I already have some of my comments deleted.

    Things can change.

    Most of this is up to Obama.

    And if TL wants to open this blog up to newly minted Independents who no longer have any real loyalty to the party, then that's kind of a choice that can be made as well.

    Time marches on.

    My honest opinion is that McCain's competent execution of ideas I do NOT support would still be better for the country than an incompetent execution of ideas I do support.

    This argument of mine will have a different meaning in the General Election, and one would have to respect that it would not be welcome everywhere.

    [ Parent ]

    My thought is (none / 0) (#275)
    by Dave B on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:25:57 PM EST
    I could possibly vote for Obama in the fall, but I could not stick a sign in my front yard like I have for the last 26 years.  I could not go door-to-door asking for people's vote.  And I could not bother my friends and relatives asking them to vote for him.

    It's possible things could change over time, but honestly I cannot see it.

    [ Parent ]

    Please take me with you Edgar (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by Cate on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:24:41 PM EST
    I have been in love with this site since I abandoned Salon to the Obama supporters. I will NEVER support Obama - so, before you go, may I ask you to leave some breadcrumbs for the brokenhearted to follow?

    [ Parent ]
    Hold on, y'all (5.00 / 6) (#81)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:32:18 PM EST
    One thing I have learned is that TL is very fair so long as you abide by the rules.  I think BTD has proven that he'll call any candidate on their BS, and Jeralyn has never banned Obama supporters who manage to be polite and contribute to the discourse.    I may be wrong, but I think that we will still be welcome here.

    The question--for me at least--is if Obama manages to get the nomination, I don't know if I'll have the stomach for being involved at this level.  I think I'll just go off to Europe and hide for a while.  Especially if he gets the nom by bullying and disenfranchising. And it'll freakin kill me to see my girl out there pushing for him, mostly because I'll always know she is the best chance we have. It'll just be too painful.  But, as y'all know, I have not given up.  As long as she keeps fighting, I will, too.

    Meanwhile, I appreciate my friends here, and, as I said, I can't imagine that the things that have drawn us to TL, the core values of BTD and Jeralyn, will change in any way that pushes out those of us who are here.

    [ Parent ]

    Take ME with you!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Marvin42 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:33:41 PM EST
    I am thinking Prague, London, Madrid... ;)

    [ Parent ]
    Amsterdam and London (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:39:44 PM EST
    maybe Germany, but only because BMW World is now open in Munich!

    [ Parent ]
    I will hide in my garden (5.00 / 3) (#210)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:34:55 PM EST
    like ladies of a certain age are known to do.  I will perfect my eggplants and figure out who to work with real manure.   I will start using real chemical pesticides to annoy my Obama neighbors.  I will wear a hat and read novels from the 19th century.  

    This year started with sort of a personal epiphany, I thought, man 40 years since 1968, something big has to happen.  Instead all that I heard is a trashing of the "cultural revolution", of the social changes and a break down of what I thought were the political alliances.  

    Now we are looking for nobility, creativity and tokenism.   The Democratic party has been coopted by new ageist  who have divided the world into those they "hate" and those the "adore".  All past is bad and should be denied, all empty promises for an unknown future at to be embraced.  


    [ Parent ]

    I have a house in Greece (none / 0) (#189)
    by angie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:18:31 PM EST
    right outside of Athens near the beach and an apartment in Athens. Just saying ;-)

    [ Parent ]
    Pou? (none / 0) (#214)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:35:49 PM EST
    Boula? or voulagmeni?  

    [ Parent ]
    Voulagmeni! n/t :-) (none / 0) (#220)
    by angie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:38:20 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Huh....nice spot. (none / 0) (#224)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:42:29 PM EST
    Do you ever go to that taverna on the square for lunch...wow, great food.  

    [ Parent ]
    is the Pope Catholic (none / 0) (#279)
    by angie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:30:59 PM EST
    not to get more OT then we already are -- but don't you LOVE the food in Greece -- the fruits and vegetables! I drool just thinking about them. Also, the seafood -- I've become totally spoiled -- I can't eat any seafood in the states anymore because after tasting the freshness of the fish in Greece I can't go back.

    [ Parent ]
    You can stay at my home in Paris (none / 0) (#219)
    by themomcat on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:37:36 PM EST
    if I can visit you in Athens. My husband and I have duel citizenship with France and the US. As I am near retirement, we may just be commenting about this from a café near our home.
    / "By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes." Macbeth, Wm. Shakespeare
    [ Parent ]
    I accept! (none / 0) (#222)
    by angie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:39:43 PM EST
    Paris je t'amie.

    [ Parent ]
    wow, (none / 0) (#242)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:52:10 PM EST
    we CLinton supporters seem to be a well-traveled, cosmopolitan bunch.  Obama's four years on the mean streets of Indonesia not withstanding, it seems very interesting to me that those of us who have seen a bit of the world--literally and figuratively--are standing up for our girl.

    (And, I've got a pokey little place in Pimlico a friend is using right now, but I've already told him he's out come November)

    [ Parent ]

    I don't drink latte (none / 0) (#276)
    by themomcat on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:26:13 PM EST
    but I do enjoy my glass of good wine. LOL. I have been around the world to some pretty exotic and dangerous places. I guess I would be considered an Obama supporter if I hadn't started out dirt poor but educated (single, worked my way through college, with a child, work in Emergency Medicine around the world and in some of the poorest areas of NYC) and a boomer. I am that educated wealthy, white class they think supports Obama.
    / "By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes." Macbeth, Wm. Shakespeare
    [ Parent ]
    And more heartbreaking (5.00 / 2) (#271)
    by cal1942 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:18:23 PM EST
    of all is that she would be carrying water for someone far inferior to herself.

    [ Parent ]
    Can you help me understand your view? (none / 0) (#126)
    by chrisblask on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:46:06 PM EST
    Hi Kathy,

    The "bullying and disenfranchising" I don't get.  I assume you refer to FL (where I live) and MI, not sure what the bullying is (I can think of Carville threatening the SDs after Richardson, but am missing the bullying from the Obama camp). My biases are clear, so I hope you can give some examples so we can try to discuss.

    I've heard the argmuments for FL on both sides, and having been whispered to by Sen. Clinton's supporters at the polls on Jan 29 I have a very hard time with seating FL delegates as writ (to explain, I stopped at the Dem table outside, signed a local petition and had gotten as far as saying I'd voted for Bill Clinton when the two leaned in and said "don't worry, there is a huge effort to get out the Clinton vote and we have it on good authority that the delegates will be seated".  I told them I supported Obama and was shocked by their statement and they shunned me immediately...).

    I hope you do not vote for McCain (either explicitly or by abstaining).

    -best

    -chris

    [ Parent ]

    My view (5.00 / 11) (#150)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:58:20 PM EST
    comes from what I hear and see the candidates and surrogates do. The blogs are nasty, but they were not solely responsible for framing my impression of Obama.  What I saw from him was flicking "dirt" of his shoulders when he talked about Clinton, calling her "desperate" and saying "she'll do anything to win", trashing Bill Clinton's legacy and outright ignoring the good he did for the party, lying about passing an energy bill he did not pass, bashing Walmart while taking royalties from his books being sold there (and forgetting, I suppose, that 84% of all American households shop at Walmart, which is political stupidity), saying that people like me on the pro-choice side do not realize that abortion is a "moral, wrenching decision," praising Bush's abstinence policy and talking about the "sacredness of sexuality," and, lastly, I think what I find truly offensive is the fact that he sat in a church while his preacher humped the pulpit to illustrate a sex act, all the while deriding both Bill and Hillary Clinton.  Oh, and I guess I should throw this in as well: as a woman, I have an intrinsic, gut reaction to a man stepping in and trying to take a job away from the more qualified, better prepared woman.

    All of this came from a man who was seeking my vote for the nomination of the presidency of the United States.

    And he won't get it.

    [ Parent ]

    I heart Kathy (5.00 / 2) (#173)
    by angie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:12:06 PM EST
    ditto to everything in her post.

    [ Parent ]
    This is what bothers me (none / 0) (#236)
    by PaulDem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:47:57 PM EST
    Oh, and I guess I should throw this in as well: as a woman, I have an intrinsic, gut reaction to a man stepping in and trying to take a job away from the more qualified, better prepared woman.

    Kathy, I respect that you are disappointed in the likely outcome, but you can't be serious in your feeling that the nomination was something owed to Senator Clinton and that Obama stepped in and took it from her.  

    I have long suspected this assumption of entitlement was in play in a lot of Clinton supporters and I find it highly disturbing.  

    [ Parent ]

    this is what gets me (5.00 / 3) (#257)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:04:41 PM EST
    I am not saying that she was owed the nomination, I am saying that SHE EARNED IT.  She worked her a*s off.  She has devoted her entire life to dem ideals.  She has withstood the slings and arrows of the republican attack machine for years.  She has taken vote after vote, on the record, and has chaired committee after committee to push democratic ideals.  I don't know if you've noticed, but our country is in serious trouble.  She is the most qualified, the most prepared and the most obvious choice.

    Can you tell me ONE THING Obama has taken a stand for that has caused him any political heat?  One issue, one VOTE on the record, where he knew he would get sh*t for it and he did it anyway because he thought it was the right thing to do?

    He has less than one full term in the senate.  He turned a blind eye to the buildings in his community--that he represented as a state senator--that were no more than rat-infested slums.  He took credit for passing bills that more experiences state senators had been toiling over for years.  He had trophy positions on board after board to pad his wallet and he still had to ask his buddy Rezko to help him buy his million dollar mansion.

    I am saying look at their resumes and tell me who is more qualified.  Jesus God, even Bush ran a state for a few years (no matter how badly).  This guy made one speech.  The most impressive piece on his resume is that he is running for the nomination.  He tells us he was a community organizer, but where are the people he helped? He tells us he got fp experience in Indonesia, but he couldn't even bother to convene a meeting while he was in the senate because he was "too busy campaigning."  Have you seen what Clinton's been doing while she's been campaigning?  The woman is on freakin' FIRE.

    If they'd replaced Jack Welch with a charismatic young man from the mail room instead of giving the job to the most qualified candidate, would you say that the more qualified candidate had a sense of entitlement?  That he felt he was "owed" the job.

    This "entitlement" crap just boggles the mind.  Why is being more qualified and more experienced a bad thing?  When did it turn into "entitlement" when you're simply the more capable applicant?

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry about that (5.00 / 1) (#266)
    by Iris on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:09:17 PM EST
    When someone has earned something, and is the best choice, I suppose you could say that they are 'entitled.'  But it's because of that, not because she thinks she's part of a 'dynasty' as is the OFB fantasy. This is of a piece with Obama's unsubtle grouping of the "Clinton and Bush years" together as something bad we have to move away from.  In other words, it's partly about the Clenis.

    [ Parent ]
    Thank you, Kathy (none / 0) (#286)
    by chrisblask on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:54:20 PM EST
    for your honest response.

    o  I think the flicking was in reference to the "moderators" of the debate that focused so much on whether "your pastor loves America as much as you do"...

    o  I'd love a reference to Sen. Obama saying Sen. Clinton was desparate and would do anything - I know that has been said by a lot of pundits but I don't recall those words ever passing Sen. Obama's lips.

    o  Sen. Obama is also pro-choice, so again I'd appreciate a reference to that as well.

    o  All religion stikes me as odd (raised born-again myself, no use for any of it), no offense intended to anyone who can practice it without forcing it on others.  Frankly, I'd love to see this country grow up to meet its original principles of not requiring adherence to a given religion as base qaulifiers for public office...

    o  The gender thing I have to call you on.  The true equality that we have approached in my lifetime (getting there) means that all have equal opportunity - not that any have extra advantage.  I believe that Sen. Clinton's gender acts in her favor, Ms. Ferraro believes Sen. Obama's race acts in his favor - I think the two of us may disagree on both those points.  In any case, I would be disappointed if either got significant advantage from any other that.

    I don't want to hog all the oxygen on this thread or site, but if you or anyone want to debate/share/fight over anything you can always email me at chris@blask.org.

    -cheers!

    -chris

    [ Parent ]

    Chris, several posters here (5.00 / 7) (#198)
    by tree on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:28:22 PM EST
    have related personal stories of bullying from Obama  supporters at the various state caucuses and I believe there are numerous complaints from Texas. Also, you apparently missed the bullying of John Lewis, who was threatened with a well-funded challenger if he failed to toe the line and switch his allegiance to Obama. Several other black legislators mentioned the same kind of bullying coming from the Obama campaign.

    And then of course there has been the constant demands that Clinton step down "for the good of the party" even when she is winning primaries handily and even though no other trailing Democratic candidate in history has ever been hounded to quit the way that Clinton has, despite the fact that no other primary season has seen such a close race.

    And implying that Clinton voters are racists is simply a form of bullying. Vote for our guy if you don't want to be considered a racist. And the fear tactics over Roe are bullying tactics. I could go on but I think you get the point.

    For all the criticism of Clinton supposedly believing that she was entitled to the nomination when the campaign started, I've seen a much greater sense of entitlement from Obama and some of his supporters. They think he was entitled to win the nomination just because he was ahead, and believe that he is entitled to all the Democrats votes in November without having to earn them. I don't want a President who doesn't understand that he(or she) has to EARN the vote. Its not a coronation. Do you get it now?

    [ Parent ]

    I never thought that dual US/Can citizenship (none / 0) (#237)
    by Rainsong on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:48:56 PM EST
    that my dual citizenship would ever need to be used.

    I've voted with held nose over poor quality Dem candidates before, but I was never frightened of them actually winning.

    [ Parent ]

    I want to (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by rnibs on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:48:27 PM EST
    go with Edgar too.  I'll be too sad watching the train wreck coming in November.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, I left Salon too... (5.00 / 1) (#265)
    by NWHiker on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:09:12 PM EST
    This place has been wonderful.

    I won't vote for McCain or Obama in the fall. I honestly don't think I'd vote for him even if Clinton were his VP.

    I will vote downticket, though.


    [ Parent ]

    aww, jeez my heart just about choked up there. (none / 0) (#90)
    by kangeroo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:34:02 PM EST
    stop it!  you're killing me.

    [ Parent ]
    Edgar (5.00 / 4) (#91)
    by kenoshaMarge on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:34:39 PM EST
    I feel the same way. I'll miss TalkLeft even more than I miss BuzzFlash when I left there. But I have some principals that are too important to me to abandon. To support Obama now is to validate all that has happened in this campaign and I cannot and I will not do that.

    I will also never vote for McCain. I do not believe him an evil man. I just don't believe he should be president.

    [ Parent ]

    I actually like McCain, but he's not the person (none / 0) (#132)
    by chrisblask on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:48:52 PM EST
    for the office.

    But abstaining from your vote is +1 for McCain.

    Please keep that clear in mind.  It's our children's fuure we are talking about, and the next four years will either be Bush years or not.

    -cheers

    -chris

    [ Parent ]

    Has anyone else noticed (5.00 / 7) (#167)
    by kmblue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:08:01 PM EST
    the steady trickle of Obama supporters here today,
    asking us why we don't support their guy, and professing wonderment as to why not?

    They always seem to end with the same warning and/or threat though/vote Obama or you are responsible for a McCain presidency!

    I'm sorry, but I find this offensive.

    [ Parent ]

    me too (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by angie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:16:14 PM EST
    they come here knowing almost nothing about us and then try to bully us and blackmail us into voting for their guy, when the fact is I honestly believe this premature "crowing" of Obama is just that -- let the rest of the states vote, seat MI & FL in a meaningful way and then see where the nomination stands. Sure, Obama is "closer" to the nomination then Hillary is at this point in time, but as I posted yesterday, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. It ain't over til its over.

    [ Parent ]
    Sorry, I guess its very hard not to offend (none / 0) (#213)
    by chrisblask on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:35:20 PM EST
    But this is a Democrat site, I gather.

    I understand that the inflection with which written words are read can entirely change the meaning, but "bully" and "blackmail" are words I could not have imagined being read into what I wrote.  I have no control how anyone reads my words, but I certainly know what I mean when I write them.  

    I have read in a few short hours my candidate called a liar, empty-suit, and race-baiter, and I have not responded in kind.  My Democrat party membership expired long long ago, but I find myself supporting the Democrat cause moreso than many who profess hard-left ideals.

    My thoughts on Nov are pragmatic.  I have been part of a group dealing with a lot of "if XXX is the candidate I'm voting McCain" threads for some months.  Not surprisingly, at present most of these comments are coming from Sen. Clinton's supporters.  At some points they have been more prominent from Sen. Obama's supporters.  Regardless who they have come from I've had the same thing to say.

    My goal here is three-fold:

    1/ as a Dem site this is a place where I can help elect a Dem in Nov.  I think it is time for that, as other comments of mine explain.

    2/ the Dem party needs to come together, and I hope to provide some effort to that end.  Like MyDD, this is a polarized site that serves as a good litmus for how that procedure can be achieved.

    3/ I strongly believe in Sen. Obama, and I want to find all of the possible attacks against him and - ironically - the best attacks have been crafted by Sen. Clinton's supporters.  Either her supporters will provide those attacks to Republicans so they can be used in favor of Sen. McCain should Sen. Obama be the nominee, or, better yet, these same people can provide assistance to Sen. Obama should he be the Dem. nominee to help counter these same attacks and put him in the WH.

    I imagine I will spend a fair bit of time reiterating these statements, but there they are.

    -best

    -chris

    [ Parent ]

    I'm sorry (5.00 / 3) (#231)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:46:32 PM EST
    but that's only because I can't think of a way to phrase this without sounding very rude:  We are not here to please you.  This entire thread, you seem to have taken on the tone of lecturer, and it's just become very puzzling to me what you hope to accomplish here.

    I was raised a dem by dems who were active in my state's party echelon.  I worked on Carter's gubernatorial and presidential elections. My father was a delegate from our state.  I voted in my first presidential election at the age of 17.  I wore out six pairs of sneakers canvassing for the dem party of GA during my wayward youth.  I am one of the core supporters of this party, one of the strongest arms of the movement, and I am so disillusioned with them now that I am going to make sure I'm out of the country for a presidential election--the first time I have ever done this in my entire life.

    If you are truly concerned about this party and this country, you should be asking yourself what has happened to me--and others like me--that I am ready to turn my back on an organization that has, for almost 40 years, been a vital part of my identity.

    That is the crux of the problem here.  The import of this is something Obama and his supporters fail to grasp at their own peril.

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry, I *am* a lecturer... (none / 0) (#320)
    by chrisblask on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:48:24 AM EST
    both by inclination and profession.  I'll try some point-form for a change of style.

    o  I don't ask you to please me.  That's not your responsibility.

    o  No point asking myself what happened to you and folks like you (how would I know?), better to ask you.

    o  On one of your points from another thread - you make the point that Sen. Clinton has "earned" this nomination.  I read your reponses on that, and I still have a hard time with it.

     - almost all folks who earn the right to run for President are never elected.

     - the same argument could (would have been?) be made if Sen. Edwards was where Sen. Obama is now.

     - all I can agree to is that she earned the right to run.

    -cheers!

    -chris

    PS - Jeralyn, I assumed the site would limit my postings, kinda feel I'm over-limit for a newbie so I'll stop here.

    [ Parent ]

    The problem is (none / 0) (#307)
    by Nadai on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:13:40 PM EST
    that you come here with no reservoir of trust.  You do not get the assumption of good faith just because you haven't called Clinton a b!tch.

    You are an Obama supporter.  I look at that fact, remember that 90%+ of the Obama supporters I've "met" online have been utter a$$es, and slap a label on you reading "Watch Him".  If it turns out that you're reasonable, hey, I can always relabel you.  I've done it before.  But that's where you start.

    And when your posts are mostly about how we all have to come together behind your candidate or we'll all go down in the McCain Apocalypse...  Well, let's just say I'm not reaching for my Sharpie.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, perspective shapes perception, I suppose (none / 0) (#322)
    by chrisblask on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:44:30 AM EST
    It is possible to say similar things - though I have to assume that your 90% is an emotional not statistical number.

    I could cut-n-paste here until I was blue in the fingers the extreme things posted as comments on blogs or diaries on democrats.org and mydd.com from supporters who share your camp (I won't lump them with you) that would/should make your hair curl. I've been called everything possible along the way, and my candidate has been slandered without restraint (which I have seen here as well).

    But I never assume this represents accurately the supporters of Sen. Clinton in majority.  It represents the most vociferous and volumatic.

    Anyway, I am not one of those who even believe that Republicans are evil freaks of nature, so I'm not likely to think you folks are, either.  Fairly certain that if we met on a plane we'd have much the same civil conversations as I have with any other person, sure you care about children and puppies and clean fresh air (and to the surprise of most Dems, the Republicans I know do, too).

    My hope beyond any of this political stuff is that we can somehow reach a stage where we understand what we share (most every important belief) and for the first time in my adult life get past the cynical ennui and acidic divisions we create for ourselves.

    We will see.

    -best

    -chris

    [ Parent ]

    DemocratIC, not Democrat site (none / 0) (#323)
    by splashy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:42:53 PM EST
    DemocratIC Party.

    If you are a Democrat, you should know this.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama and the DNC (5.00 / 2) (#244)
    by themomcat on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:53:43 PM EST
    will be solely to blame if McCain wins in November. This election is the Democratic Party's to lose. By pushing the least electable candidate, they will lose in November. No one else is to blame, not Hillary or Bill Clinton, not her supporters. The loss in November will be squarely on Obama, the DNC and the so-called elder statesmen of the party such as Kennedy, Kerry, Dodd and company. But have no fear, they will blame us anyway, how Republican.
    / "By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes." Macbeth, Wm. Shakespeare
    [ Parent ]
    Mee too, (5.00 / 1) (#264)
    by Leisa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:09:02 PM EST
    Since Tuesday...  Yuck, it feels fishy to me.

    [ Parent ]
    On top of that (5.00 / 1) (#273)
    by cal1942 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:20:43 PM EST
    they frequently manage to get in a few insults.

    [ Parent ]
    I am tired of them (5.00 / 1) (#308)
    by AX10 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:17:00 PM EST
    They are lost when we say we don't support Obama, and then they wonder why we call them a cult.

    [ Parent ]
    Why offensive? If they are rude or baiting (none / 0) (#200)
    by IndiDemGirl on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:28:59 PM EST
    ok, but not all are doing that.  I've lurked here for a long time and have been commenting for several weeks.  I'm an Obama supporter.  I've found people here friendly, and even shared a laugh with one or two.  I haven't been banned (obviously) or deleted or deemed a chatterer.

    I enjoy coming here because I LIKE hearing from intelligent people who see things differently then I do. It makes me re-evaluate my perceptions of Obama.  I haven't changed my feelings - but I have thought about them and tried to see things from your "HRC supporters" viewpoint.    

    Maybe some others O supporters are trying to understand what you think.  Certainly you must be frustrated that some don't see that HRC is the better candidate.  Well, some Obama may feel the same way.  


    [ Parent ]

    IndiDemgirl (5.00 / 2) (#230)
    by kmblue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:46:16 PM EST
    I don't mind the questions, though I do get a bit annoyed when they are asked over and over by different people, who are then advised to do a little searching of past posts.

    It's the near constant threats about Roe v. Wade, and "see how you like President McCain!" that tick me off.

    And you are a very courteous poster, for what my humble opinion is worth.

    [ Parent ]

    Indidem- I tried engaging people (5.00 / 1) (#310)
    by kenosharick on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:32:52 PM EST
    intelligently and with politness at americablog and was EVICERATED and called every dirty name in the book (being called a repubican was the worst)because I support a different Dem. This behavior is rampant among Obama supporters- very rare among those supporting Hillary. The viciousness of his campaign and supporters led me to probably not marking the top of my Wisconsin ballot.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm afraid that's not correct, Chris (5.00 / 4) (#209)
    by Beth on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:34:40 PM EST
    "But abstaining from your vote is +1 for McCain."

    First off, my *actually* voting for McCain is +1 vote for McCain. My not voting at all is in no way mathmatically identical.

    Secondly, Obama is not automatically entitled to my vote. Goddess knows, as a liberal gay woman, I'm not enamored with the Republican party, and I might still vote for Obama simply because of judicial appointments.

    But he's said or done nothing to inspire my confidence. He made it clear months ago that he's more concerned with appealing to homophobic black ministers and their flocks than he is to me. And his minions and spokespeople have been dreadfully misogynistic at times.

    He decided to pander to particular demographics at the expense of alienating others. 5 months ago, while I liked Hillary, I was legitimately undecided between the democratic contenders. Now I'm not - Obama's campaign (and his supporters) have helped make me a devout Hillary supporter.

    At this point, I'm not particularly inclined to vote for him. I'm not sure if I'll vote for any presidential candidate if Obama gets the nomination. But Obama will have several months to win my support.

    If he can't, then that's his failure, not mine.

    [ Parent ]
    Chrisblask et al (5.00 / 6) (#227)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:44:56 PM EST
    It's clear you are sincere.  I can see that you are.  But you are also not very smart.

    Do not come in here and preach to us.  We're not interested in hearing the same old platitudes from you.  Do not speak to us as if we were children. We do not need to be told what the consequences are of not voting for The Precious if he manages to get the nomination.  Do not patronize.

    I don't know who pushed what button to send a whole cadre of you over here to proselytize in such simplistic and condescending terms, but it's as tone-deaf as the rest of the Obama campaign has been.

    You are not helping your candidate or the Democratic Party, all you are doing is further antagonizing us.

    Your candidate and his campaign and his supporters cannot spit on half of Democratic voters and expect there to be no consequences.

    [ Parent ]

    gyrfalcon (5.00 / 1) (#239)
    by kmblue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:51:58 PM EST
    I never rate comments because I'm lazy.
    But I must applaud you because you said it
    much better than me.  Take a 10!

    [ Parent ]
    Wow (none / 0) (#255)
    by squeaky on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:04:08 PM EST
    When did you get here? Three months ago and now you are telling people to bugger off because they are not what TL is about.

    Hilarious. You seem no different from those you castigate. It is just that you belong to different opposing fan clubs.

    TL is open to all points of view but it is slanted to the left of center and Democratic. Your position is the one that varies with TL but it is tolerated. Not a bad example to follow, imo.

    [ Parent ]

    I hope you did (none / 0) (#282)
    by Leisa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:39:39 PM EST
    not just direct that at gyrfalcon.  I did not get that impression at all.  

    Plus, I am not sure how long anyone has been here... or what you meant by that.  

    [ Parent ]

    Yes It Was (none / 0) (#288)
    by squeaky on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:58:07 PM EST
    In response to this:

    Do not come in here and preach to us.  We're not interested in hearing the same old platitudes from you.  Do not speak to us as if we were children. We do not need to be told what the consequences are of not voting for The Precious if he manages to get the nomination.  Do not patronize.

    Many of the long time TL commenters must chuckle at the line

    I don't know who pushed what button to send a whole cadre of you over here to proselytize...

    Because a whole cadre of Hillary fans descended on TL a few months ago. I am not sure if proselytizing is how I would characterize the recent flock's comments, but it comes pretty close. I guess it is more like a fan club than a church.


    [ Parent ]

    Ok squeaky (none / 0) (#291)
    by Leisa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:09:30 PM EST
    You own this place, not us refugees.

    However, I find it rather condescending for this new wave of Obama supporters to suddenly play nice and naive.  

    The tone here has changed since Tuesday and I am do think gyrfalcon was correct in the assessment of some of the Obama supporters sudden appearance and need to convert.  I do believe that is called proselytizing...  

    Your words made me feel unwelcome here, and I want to let you know that...

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry (none / 0) (#298)
    by squeaky on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:42:39 PM EST
    That my words made you feel unwelcome here. That was not my intent. And just because I have been commenting here a few years certainly doesn't mean I own the place, far from it; I am just a lowly commenter like you. What it does mean though, is that I have some perspective regarding the ebbs and flow of traffic here over time.

    And whatever uptick or wave as you call it of Obama supporters to TL, it is nothing compared to the wave of Hillary fans that have descended here in the last few months. That is not a bad thing.

    It took a while for me to realize that TL has become a schoolyard for exKossaks to both work out their feelings of rejection from kos and cheer for Hillary. I never got the fanclub cult thing, but I now have had a big taste of it here. Not my thing although I support Hillary.

    Hope you stay when TL gets back to regular, but it may be boring for you. Most of the Hillary supporters seem single issue commenters, so I expect most to leave after the nomination. But I sincerely would love for you to stick around and add to the various interesting dialogues about politics and crime.


    [ Parent ]

    Thanks (none / 0) (#311)
    by Leisa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:37:46 PM EST
    I have been here as a Hillary supporter.  I was exhausted when I arrived and was appreciative of the intelligent and civil discussions here.

    I do not view myself as part of a fan club or cult as I am sure that many Obama supporters feel the same.  I do feel strongly that Obama is not ready to be POTUS  for a number of reasons.  First, I think he needs more time or seasoning to define himself and decide who he is for himself.  He does not have strong convictions that time and experience hone.  He has good ideas, but I believe that they are half formed and too childlike and simplistic to be practical.  I also feel that the majority of Americans need more time to familiarize themselves with him and be sure of who he is before they will hand him the keys to the White House.  His record voting and his associations bode ill for him.

    I could go on, but most of all, I hope that you understand that I have felt that Democracy has been abridged in this primary and I am acting as a concerned citizen.  I see Hillary's negatives, and the source of them.  I was an adult when she was First Lady.   Her negatives are far less troubling to me than the troubling issues I see with Obama.  

    So, here I am.  Trying to wade my way through.

    BTW, my background is in education.  Specifically special education with an emphasis on behavior modification.  I have been a behavior mod teacher and as a result of my interaction with families I have had to deal with legal issues in regard to their care.  I am concerned about laws that affect children that have been abused and that deal with gang violence and drug offenders.

    Thanks for taking the time to clarify your position with me.  Discourse like this is why I am still here.


    [ Parent ]

    I wanted to show my support for your commenary. (none / 0) (#309)
    by AX10 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:20:37 PM EST
    "Your candidate and his campaign and his supporters cannot spit on half of Democratic voters and expect there to be no consequences"

    Right on!

    This is why they are called "elitists".
    Obama's supporters are condicending.  They speak down to us.  It's this same attitude that lead to the massive 72'/84' losses.

    [ Parent ]

    Well said. (none / 0) (#312)
    by BostonIndependent on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:21:34 PM EST
    I composed a note to ChrisB.. before I realized I didn't want to waste my time. You said it well.

    I can't resist a dig though. WRT> his 3/ upthread-- isn't that oh-so much like a typical Obama supporter -- they must trawl through the net to find what arguments are being made against The One. My goodness -- what zeal. God knows they are not finding such arguments in the MSM -- and they get this bizarre sensation whenever they try to think -- ever since He asked them all to look into that pen like thing he was holding .. <FLASH>
    ...

    [ Parent ]

    you ask (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Jeralyn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:40:44 PM EST
    Bottom line is what becomes of those of us who continue to criticize Obama after he becomes the nominee?  When criticizing him will be more tacitly defined as support for McCain (even if it's not!)

    You are welcome to comment and state whatever point of view you hold. If your criticism of Obama is not support for McCain, say so.  You don't have to agree with TalkLeft.

    No one said we won't be criticizing Obama going forward. I'm sure BTD and I will disagree with Obama's strategy for beating McCain going forward from time to time. I may disagree with him on issues and if I do, I won't hesitate to say so. I doubt there will be an issue where I agree with McCain over Obama, I can't conceive of one. So criticism of Obama going forward doesn't mean support of McCain. I've disagreed with Hillary on issues too.

    [ Parent ]

    Hey, Jeralyn! (5.00 / 3) (#130)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:48:29 PM EST
    Stop with the defeatist talk!  Our girl isn't out of this thing yet!

    [ Parent ]
    I'm not defeatist (none / 0) (#136)
    by Jeralyn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:52:26 PM EST
    I was answering a question about what happens if Obama is the nominee. I've been getting a lot of emails from readers (particularly those who don't comment here) asking the same thing. I'm trying to answer them.

    Hillary is still in this race and there is no nominee. It's vital that WVA and KY, Mont and SD voters come out in full force.

    The superdelegates don't cast their vote until August. They are free until then to remain uncommitted or to decide and change their minds. There's a lot of variables here and the media's crowning a nominee doesn't make it a reality.

    [ Parent ]

    add Puerto Rico (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Jeralyn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:53:10 PM EST
    to my list. Oregon has yet to vote as well.

    [ Parent ]
    I fell like we should descend (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by oculus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:00:36 PM EST
    en masse in OR.

    P.S.  What I meant in the open thread was NORML.  Also, your explanation of why you blog and what you blog was very eloquent.

    [ Parent ]

    okay, phew-- (none / 0) (#183)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:16:41 PM EST
    I thought we'd lost ya!

    [ Parent ]
    I'm willing to give Obama a chance... (4.66 / 3) (#29)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:18:01 PM EST
    ...to persuade me to vote for him. But I get what you are saying. However, I'm hoping that TalkLeft will continue to be a place where Obama's campaign can be assessed fairly and openly. I refuse to believe that blind loyalty to Obama is the only way to oppose McCain.

    [ Parent ]