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Ted Kennedy's Divisive Rhetoric

I am a big fan of Ted Kennedy but he does the Democratic Party a great disservice with this type of talk:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama isn't likely to pick rival Hillary Clinton as a running mate, according to one of his most prominent supporters. "I don't think it's possible," Massachusetts Senator Edward Kennedy said in an interview on Bloomberg Television's "Political Capital With Al Hunt," airing this weekend.

Kennedy, 76, without naming names, said Obama should pick someone who "is in tune with his appeal for the nobler aspirations of the American people. If we had real leadership -- as we do with Barack Obama -- in the No. 2 spot as well, it'd be enormously helpful," Kennedy said.

What a terrible terrible thing to say. The Obama camp should disavow it. Unless he said it at their behest. In which case, we are gonna lose in November.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

Comments closed.

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  • Display: Sort:
    UNITY baby! (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by oldnorthstate on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:06:01 PM EST


    I swear (5.00 / 10) (#45)
    by Salo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:26:24 PM EST
    that Rove is going to write an op-ed where he says something like:

    Dear Democrats

    We thought we couldn't take down the Clinton's intra party so we decided to take her down internally. We didn't like her because we knew she was serious and effective.

    SUCKERS!

    faithfully Yours

    Mr Rove.

    [ Parent ]

    Re: I swear (none / 0) (#184)
    by Sleeper on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:37:34 PM EST
    I have never bought into the evil genius myth that Rove promotes about himself, and you guys shouldn't either.  2006's "secret math" proved his fallibility.

    [ Parent ]
    It's called self-immolation (5.00 / 13) (#4)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:08:19 PM EST
    Part of the New Democratic Party's single-state strategy.

    which state are (none / 0) (#12)
    by bjorn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:10:27 PM EST
    they going for?

    [ Parent ]
    Guam (5.00 / 7) (#13)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:12:28 PM EST
    yes, I know--it's not a state--but please don't burst their bubble.

    [ Parent ]
    You are funnier than (none / 0) (#15)
    by bjorn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:13:12 PM EST
    Jon Stewart!  Are you Jon Stewart?

    [ Parent ]
    Jon will be funny again when.... (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:31:46 PM EST
    ...the kool aid wears off.

    [ Parent ]
    He'll go mad. (none / 0) (#76)
    by Salo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:34:13 PM EST
    permanently.

    [ Parent ]
    Not Ted's own (none / 0) (#160)
    by zyx on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:14:16 PM EST
    Massachusetts must be just chock-full of ignoble people with gutter aspirations.

    [ Parent ]
    the insults (5.00 / 9) (#6)
    by just victory on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:09:17 PM EST
    just keep rolling in. They really don't want my vote in November.

    it really seems that way (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:13:52 PM EST
    doesnt it?

    [ Parent ]
    I realized that a couple of days ago... (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:34:34 PM EST
    ...when Donna Brazile had her meltdown and nobody walked it back. So, what to do?

    [ Parent ]
    The Pickling Process of Kennedy's Brain Complete (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:03:55 PM EST
    "Obama should pick someone who is in tune with his appeal for the nobler aspirations of the American people."

    Well that leaves out Kennedy and Kerry.  What a very stupid thing to say, although we should not be surprised as this has been a campaign by obama's camp to out-stoopid the most stoopid utterances in any campaign ever.  They seem directed at dividing, not uniting, as much as possible.

    [ Parent ]

    Re: the insults (none / 0) (#187)
    by Sleeper on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:40:21 PM EST
    You would vote for a diametrically opposed party because a Senator who wasn't even running was insufficiently deferential to your candidate?

    Isn't that petty?

    [ Parent ]

    Not petty, but sane (5.00 / 0) (#193)
    by christinep on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:45:27 PM EST
    Ted Kennedy is not just any Senator. He is one of the purported leaders/elders of the party. In many ways, personifies a particular segment of the party.  It isn't "petty" to consider what he is saying these days and what Kerry is also adding in the way of "fuel to the fire."  Nope...not petty. Its an eye-opener.

    [ Parent ]
    Re: Not petty, but sane (1.00 / 0) (#221)
    by Sleeper on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:16:54 PM EST
    Okay.  At this point I can only conclude that hardcore Clinton fans are actively looking for an excuse to take their toys and go home and sulk.

    This election is about putting the country back together after 8 years of absolute disaster.  8 years of absolute disaster.  Oh, but Ted Kennedy said something mean about my gal Hillary, so I'll vote for McCain, or I'll stay home.  Because my hurt feelings are far more important than the servicemen and -women who will die from 2009 to 2013.  Or the countries McCain will bomb.  Or the families who'll be tossed out on the street because the GOP doesn't want to help them.  No, none of these things matter because I have been offended.

    Perspective, people.

    [ Parent ]

    As I said in a lower thread (5.00 / 6) (#7)
    by janarchy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:09:27 PM EST
    Ted must have fallen off the wagon again to be spewing such crap.

    What a terrible terrible thing to say. The Obama camp should disavow it. Unless he said it at their behest. In which case, we are gonna lose in November.

    Sadly, I think you're reading the tea leaves right. I've been saying it for some time. I don't expect any disavowal from the Obama camp, not when he's busy coronating himself at any rate.

    What's so terrible? (1.00 / 0) (#170)
    by madpie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:27:47 PM EST
    What's so terrible about suggesting that we need somebody in tune with nobler aspirations? Man, I really don't get it. This blog has become so weird.

    [ Parent ]
    Seriously? (5.00 / 1) (#219)
    by IzikLA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:15:52 PM EST
    Isn't it obvious that the implication is that Hillary Clinton does not have the noble aspirations that Barack Obama does?  I can't believe I even have to explain this.  By the way, not only is it divisive and insulting to Clinton but also to the 49% of democratic voters that have voted for her and believe in her.  

    That's what's so terrible.

    [ Parent ]

    Re: What's so terrible? (1.00 / 0) (#190)
    by Sleeper on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:43:39 PM EST
    I think that Kennedy's remarks are being interpreted as a dig at Hillary Clinton.  Which is just people here looking to be insulted and seeing what they want to see, in my opinion.

    At this point I think an Obama/Clinton ticket would not be great because it would just seem disingenuous.  It's pretty clear that by now there is no love lost between them on a personal level, despite their similarities on policy.  I think Clinton is better off staying in the Senate and rising there, as Kennedy himself had to do when his presidential ambitions ended in defeat.  

    [ Parent ]

    I almost get the feeling (5.00 / 7) (#8)
    by andgarden on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:09:32 PM EST
    that he and Nancy Pelosi actually want to lose the Presidency in the Fall.

    I honestly think (5.00 / 12) (#29)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:18:35 PM EST
    that they are just so wrapped up in this bubble, and they are so sure that they are right and Clinton is wrong, and that the whole world feels this way, that they spout off whatever they like without understanding the consequences.  Reminds me of just after the NH win, when Matt Tiabi was on Colbert and said that his first thought was that CLinton must have cheated, and his second thought was that he felt worse when he heard about her win than if he'd just heard he'd been diagnosed with cancer.

    Ted Kennedy is not an idiot.  Do you think he would say something so horrible if he didn't think (1) that it was true and (2) that everyone basically felt the same way, so why not say it?

    The disconnect is amazing.  It's like the Obama folk who say, "Don't attack Obama.  Don't you realize that 50% of all democrats support him?"  And you just want to say, "uh, who do you think those other 50% support?"

    They are absolutely clueless, and blinded by their certainty that they are correct.  The media is exactly the same.  They are shocked when someone comes out and says that they actually like Clinton, and totally convinced that that person must be either deluded or racist or insane or all three.

    And they wonder why people think they're elitist.

    [ Parent ]

    Blind spots (5.00 / 5) (#82)
    by christinep on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:36:21 PM EST
    Gradually, I have come to realize that there is a certain streak in Ted Kennedy that my adult-long dedication to the Kennedy image had caused me not to see.  That has been one of the tougher little lessons learned this season...and, today, he just reinforced the image of faction politics. A bit of a mean streak, to put it mildly.  A history professor acquaintance reminded me recently that Kennedy acted in the same manner toward Carter in his ill-fated attempt to unseat the former President in the primary then (ultimately, it may well have contributed to Carter's defeat.) Either he resented the Clintons 1990s political ascendance more than readily apparent (and, eagerly "passed the torch" to the more aligned House of Daley) or he is carelessly again undermining the longterm prospects of the party. For me, it has been quite sad to watch the antics of a Democratic legend whom I had admired beyond almost any other Democratic politician.  I wonder if Obama could comprehend the ironic ramifications of his "turn the page" oratory for people such as myself.

    [ Parent ]
    Congratulations...but (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by oldpro on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:53:31 PM EST
    sorry it's so painful.

    Reality.

    Teddy is simply an embarrassment now.  He cares nothing for the Democratic Party.

    Final nails in coffin of TK's legacy.  What a damn shame.

    [ Parent ]

    Clinton animosity (5.00 / 4) (#147)
    by zyx on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:07:05 PM EST
    I read that a lot of Washington insider Democrats never could stand Bill Clinton because he was BOTH a Rhodes Scholar AND a Bubba.  He could swing both ways and appeal to people that they could not.  And it bugs the he11 of 'em for some reason.  Jealousy?

    I have a lot of respect for Ted, for his life of (effective!) service to people who are less fortunate that himself, but this is nasty and low.

    [ Parent ]

    I was taught (5.00 / 4) (#148)
    by kenoshaMarge on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:07:16 PM EST
    a long time ago by the two very smart people that raised me that you should listen to what people say. Really listen. Because sooner or later they will actually tell you the truth. Ted Kennedy said what he and the Stevenson Democratic Party believe. They don't want the "bubbas" in their elite party and they have come to believe that either they can win without them or that all the little Bubbaboys and Bubbagirls will come home to the Party in November because they have no where else to go.

    Believe them. They mean what they say.

    [ Parent ]

    Re: I was taught (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by Sleeper on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:54:14 PM EST
    I think that the notion that in 2008 that Bill and Hillary Clinton are not elites in the Democratic Party is just insane.  You can't be serious.  They've dominated Democratic politics for almost 20 years.

    More and more, the Clinton supporters here are sounding like Republicans.  I don't understand.  I supported her for months and months, and this kind of anti-intellectual Caddyshack mindset is ridiculous to me.  This is not the campaign I supported.  If anything, Dean and his Fifty State Strategy has done more of reachout to Democratic voters "behind the lines" in deep red states than anyone in recent memory.  Dean has certainly done more than the Clinton "Fifty Percent + 1 Vote" strategy did to rebuild the party.

    I don't get it.  Sometimes people just lose races, you know?  It's not the fault of some cabal of Ivy League elites.

    [ Parent ]

    A wise comment (none / 0) (#197)
    by christinep on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:49:47 PM EST
    To kenoshaMarge: Thank you for your insight. At some level, I have always sense a professional envy as well. The funny part is that there are many of us who fit in both "worlds." The would-be elite really do not understand it.

    [ Parent ]
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by Steve M on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:25:56 PM EST
    Bill Clinton was 100% right when he said that some Obama supporters are people who don't actually need a President.

    Ted Kennedy, of course, is the ultimate example of such.

    [ Parent ]

    nancy likes (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by sancho on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:50:30 PM EST
    being opposition leader. hillary might make her pass something.

    [ Parent ]
    Wow (5.00 / 10) (#10)
    by Steve M on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:10:10 PM EST
    We are SO not getting a pony.

    We don't deserve one (5.00 / 8) (#44)
    by janarchy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:26:14 PM EST
    We're all low-informed, white trash racists. Now with less nobility or leadership skillz!

    [ Parent ]
    don't forget we also have poor judgement (5.00 / 5) (#86)
    by cawaltz on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:37:24 PM EST
    because we like the "psycho stalker ex girlfriend" candidate. Oh and we have dirt underneath our fingernails an don't shop at Whole Foods.

    I thinkI've come up with a new acronym?

    W(hy) W(on't) O(bama) S(upporters) S(hut) U(p)?

    With friends like Bowers, Brazile, and Kennedy who needs enemies. Evidently, their mothers didn't teach them that if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing. They are really bound and determined to offend the half of the electorate that prefers Hillary.

    [ Parent ]

    That's like a really scary (5.00 / 5) (#102)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:42:25 PM EST
    chemical compund: W2OS2U

    [ Parent ]
    Even though (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by janarchy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:45:27 PM EST
    some of us actually do shop at Whole Foods? Oh noes, are they going to bar me from the store now because I support HRC? phear

    I think I'd actually amend that to WWOSSTFU but yes...you'd think that at this point SOMEONE would figure out that it would be better to keep quiet and let HRC and her supporters hang themselves than continue to bloviate and make the situation 1000x worse. This is why us white trash people (sorry -- I keep laughing as I write this considering I was born and raised in NYC, hold a Master's degree and am self-employed, for a start) know there is no real Unity to be had. The only Unity = you're either with us or against us, apparently.

    [ Parent ]

    Not even a seahorse. (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:38:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Maybe IDIOT Ted should read this: Today's Foreign (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by SunnyLC on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:10:15 PM EST
    Today's Foreign News that Obama Probably Doesn't Know a Thing About...
    http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/

    Who can forget that interview way back in 2000 when George W. Bush was asked who was heading Pakistan? Bush dismissively answered that it was some general and that it didn't matter if he couldn't recall the name, because he would be surrounded by advisers who knew all this stuff.

    Were you impressed then? I sure wasn't and I'm not impressed with Obama's "expertise" on foreign policy either. His policies speeches may come chapter and verse straight from the party platform and he can buddy all he wants with Jimmy Carter...but that sort of "foreign policy by association" doesn't cut it with me, especially after seeing Bush and Cheney in action. Spending a few years in Indonesia as a kid, having a dubious relationship with Odinga in Africa, and never having the curiosity to explore Europe doesn't count either.

    So, when I ask if Obama knows the name of the current Japanese prime minister it's because I want to see his ATTITUDE when he answers. Is he going to act like Bush?

    I wake up to the BBC World Service news every morning via shortwave radio and in about 5 minutes I learn more than I could ever learn from the American media. Today was a BIG NEWS DAY on at least 3 fronts-Russia, Lebanon, and, yes, Japan. Having followed a lot of the related news while churning out the World Media Watch for Buzzflash for quite a few years, the stories I heard really woke me up, fast! Because the spectre of Obama (or McCain) reacting to some of the situations reported gave me a kick in the gut.

    MORE MORE MORE at my blog post

    Winning was never their goal (5.00 / 9) (#14)
    by sonya on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:13:06 PM EST
    They only wanted to destroy the Clintons.  Another republican administration isn't going to hurt Kennedy or Kerry or any of the other losers.  They just used Obama to carry out their petty and vindictive plan.

    My money is still on Hillary.

    This is believable given (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by bjorn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:14:01 PM EST
    the stupidity of the statements Kerry and Kennedy have made in the last 48 hours.

    [ Parent ]
    said in a previous thread (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:16:45 PM EST
    this season is either causing people to lose their minds or there are some agendas circulating we do not fully see.

    [ Parent ]
    Nah (none / 0) (#56)
    by Salo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:28:57 PM EST
    Ted and Kerry are prolly just stupid.

    we just keep forgetting how stupid they are.  recall they are born to wealth or married to money.

    [ Parent ]

    In situations where Democrats do things (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by andgarden on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:30:04 PM EST
    that don't make any sense, sometimes the best conclusion really is that they aren't that smart.

    [ Parent ]
    It's the simplest one. (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by Salo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:37:02 PM EST
    It avoids conspiracy, and avoids ideological backbiting.

    [ Parent ]
    Occams Razor in action (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:38:31 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    BTD, they are all working against you (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by BigB on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:13:29 PM EST
    I know you have been working very hard to bring the two sides together.

    I hope you can understand why Hillary supporters like me cannot support Obama. This is how they really think. They want to purge us from the party. This has been clear for a while.

    I keep trying to tell myself it's just trolls (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by dianem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:17:18 PM EST
    I want to believe that the people making these inane statements are simply trolls who want to make trouble or turn people off of the Democratic Party. But every time I'm starting to get convinced, someone "respectable" makes an inane comment like this and I realize that it's not trolls - the views of the people on-line are simply echoes of the views of the party leaders.

    [ Parent ]
    It sure seems that way (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:17:39 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Teds outburst (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by Salo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:30:13 PM EST
    tends to show that it's the head of th efish that is rotting.

    Obama suggests things, surrogates reinforce it and the fans act out.

    It's Fugly

    [ Parent ]

    WTF? (5.00 / 6) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:15:06 PM EST
    "If we had real leadership -- as we do with Barack Obama -- in the No. 2 spot as well, it'd be enormously helpful," Kennedy said."

    Teddy, STFU.

    It would also have been enormously helpful (5.00 / 0) (#210)
    by Anne on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:07:16 PM EST
    to have had real leadership in the Congress, don't you think?  Harry Reid couldn't lead a freakin' parade if he was the only one in it, for crying out loud.  A whole year of, "I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house down" from Congressional committees - yeah - we really know a lot about leadership, don't we?  Senators and Representatives working to give amnesty to telecoms, failing to pass an S-CHIP expansion, funding the war over and over and over.  I don't know - maybe I missed all those examples of Barack Obama leading his fellow Dems - and the Republicans - to the right decisions.

    "Real" leaders do not blow off sub-committee chairmanships with the lame excuse that they were too busy campaigning.  Gosh, it's not like we have anything important going on in Afghanistan, or need the support of our European allies or anything.  And it couldn't possibly be useful to someone who wants to lead the freakin' country to spend some time actually getting some foreign policy cred, could it?  Oh, wait - he lived in Indonesia 37 years ago, so what am I thinking? - of course he's ready to lead...

    Teddy Kennedy is going to be sorry he hitched his aging wagon to this star that is all light and no heat; he'll be learning a lot about the word "ignoble" in the coming months.  Sad.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm seeing red over this (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by dianem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:15:26 PM EST
    I declared in Salon that if he doesn't retract or otherwise reinterpret his statements I'm leaving the Democratic Party. I can't believe he said this.

    Why wait...get it over with now and vote your (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Salt on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:22:44 PM EST

    Community of interest not that of a unprincipled political Party not sure about you but I feel scammed for providing donations for this DNC shell game of a Primary it wont happened again for me.


    [ Parent ]
    I am (none / 0) (#43)
    by dianem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:25:23 PM EST
    Charlie Brown rocks - and he is the only candidate who is getting my money or my vote this election.

    [ Parent ]
    If this leads you to leave the Democratic Party... (1.00 / 1) (#205)
    by Sleeper on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:59:02 PM EST
    ...then your commitment to its policies was obviously not very strong to begin with.

    I can't believe how incredibly petty people here are being over the remark of a candidate who isn't even running.  yikes.  Calm down, everyone.  Kennedy is allowed to not want Clinton on the ticket if he wants.  But he doesn't get a say in the matter.  You guys are seeing conspiracies everywhere.

    [ Parent ]

    Good Lord (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by MaryGM on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:16:06 PM EST
    I almost think that's worthy of a direct apology to Senator Clinton (and I'm not one of those who makes many apology suggestions - politics is mean).  That's just immensely insulting, especially when you look at what he says we need and put a "Hillary Clinton is not" in front of them (which is what he's essentially saying).

    I swear, if I didn't know any better, I'd think these people just started playing this game. What an idiot.

    Absolutely... (5.00 / 0) (#50)
    by Salt on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:27:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Teddy doesn't need to play the game (5.00 / 0) (#101)
    by angie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:41:44 PM EST
    the brutal truth is Teddy has a lifetime job in the US Senate because his brothers Bobby & John (God rest their souls) were killed. Despite all the evidence to the contrary (Chappaquiddick anyone?) people project onto him the noble aspects of his dearly departed brothers.

    [ Parent ]
    and teddy divided the party (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by sancho on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:53:29 PM EST
    in 1980 when he went after carter's nomination. he's an old hand at party division. but he still get to be the lion of the senate.

    [ Parent ]
    Remember... (5.00 / 0) (#112)
    by Iris on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:46:39 PM EST
    many of Obama's 'new coalition' really did just start playing the game.  They have no political memory pre-Bush.  I remember wondering what the effect of it would be, but I would not have imagined that, because of this, the party 'elders' would piss away this election.

    [ Parent ]
    Ha, I always knew they snubbed her... (none / 0) (#97)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:40:10 PM EST
    ...on purpose.

    [ Parent ]
    Another argument to get (5.00 / 5) (#23)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:16:18 PM EST
    Clinton supporters.... these guys are just giving excellent fodder to the Repubs to get Clinton voters.

    The Repubs are actually complementary to Clinton and making comments about how her supporters are being treated (declaring victory is insulting to her supporters) while the Dems in the media have been critical and dismissive of Clinton and her supporters.

    And it's working (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by janarchy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:18:58 PM EST
    sad when the Republicans know how to court disgruntled voters and play the Unity strategy in the correct way. Pity the Obama campaign and it's spokesmouths like Donna Brazile can't seem to wrap that concept around their thick HopeandChange infused skulls.

    [ Parent ]
    Well his VP pick will prove if it's pandering or (none / 0) (#128)
    by Salt on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:55:26 PM EST
    an invitation to join...we shall see.  If he pulls white women and seniors he will have an unbeatable an invitation to join...we shall see.  If he pulls white women and seniors he will have an unbeatable coalition and we will have divided governance and the creative base will also have the face of their new exclusive Party.

    [ Parent ]
    Re: Well his VP pick will prove if it's pandering (none / 0) (#207)
    by Sleeper on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:02:06 PM EST
    I have a feeling that Claire McCaskill would be his first choice if she didn't have even less time in office than he did.

    I'd like to see an Obama/Webb ticket.  He's someone who could bring in those mystical "Reagan Democrats" that everyone salivates over (if they even still exist 20 years after Reagan left office).  And he would eviscerate McCain's only strength, the war hero card.

    [ Parent ]

    Please not McCaskill (5.00 / 0) (#226)
    by DFLer on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:26:04 PM EST
    That would really tank the ticket.

    I find her....well....weak, inexperienced and thinks she hit a triple.

    [ Parent ]

    Crikey i'd be buttering her up (none / 0) (#64)
    by Salo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:31:30 PM EST
    If I were hume, hannity or rove.


    [ Parent ]
    O'Reilly (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by janarchy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:47:13 PM EST
    already made a step in the right direction. God knows I loathe Bill-O but I have to say the interview with her was pretty impressive.

    [ Parent ]
    but ko is just as bad (none / 0) (#130)
    by Salt on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:56:24 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    KO is worse (5.00 / 0) (#212)
    by janarchy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:08:26 PM EST
    since he pretends he's above that kind of behaviour and even Bill-O didn't mock her with his pals as soon as she was off camera. He seemed pretty pleased. Scary that I am typing this but KO could learn a little lesson in how to behave from Bill-O (seriously, I never ever thought I would be able to say that!)

    [ Parent ]
    Do You Have Some Links? (none / 0) (#155)
    by Blue Jean on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:11:18 PM EST
    I'd like to believe it.

    [ Parent ]
    Watch Fox (none / 0) (#206)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:00:33 PM EST
    I'm sure they post clips but I'm not looking for them.  Like many Clinton supporters, I gave up on MSNBC and CNN over 3 months ago and have been watching Fox.  We've admitted our shame.  Yes, sometimes they criticize Clinton, but as Obama has moved closer to the nom, they have moved to the GE and they are complimentary of Clinton.  Rove and others specifically talk about how the Dems have treated her, how the media has treated her and how her supporters are being dismissed.

    [ Parent ]
    Re: Watch Fox (1.00 / 0) (#211)
    by Sleeper on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:07:58 PM EST
    I think this comment more than anything else encapsulates why younger people, you know, the "egghead college elites," have grown disenchanted with Hillary Clinton and her hardcore supporters.  ugh.  There's a world out there beyond your property taxes, you know.  Fox News more than anyone in the media cheered on the deaths of half a million Iraqis.  But, hey, they're nice to my gal Hillary, so let's watch them instead.  No, that's not selfish and narcissistic at all, no way.

    [ Parent ]
    Unity (5.00 / 1) (#224)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:18:55 PM EST
    anyone?  Get off your high horse.  You actually think I'm concerned that some snobs care that I watch Fox for political coverage as I can't stand watching CNN or MSNBC dry hump a certain candidates leg. pffft

    It's narcissistic, selfish, elitist, and delusional to go around thinking anyone cares whether you approve of where someone gets their political coverage.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh Well (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by squeaky on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:17:37 PM EST
    Guess he really does not like Hillary, or has something else in mind. I hope he is not speaking for Obama because I cannot imagine a better ticket, but then again my political imagination may be limited.

    Wonder who he is thinking of as veep.

    Look (5.00 / 11) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:19:33 PM EST
    Even of you do not want that ticket you do not say anything REMOTELY LIKE THAT publically. EVER.

    The Clintons are now justified in saying eff it, you guys go and win this on your own then.

    [ Parent ]

    That is a wonderful point - (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by Boo Radly on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:57:10 PM EST
    the Clintons are now released from any campaigning on the behalf of BO. They can still say, if BO gets the nom and loses that it is their fault, but seriously, he is gonna lose no matter what.These clueless tirads from the entire following are so misguided. Arrogance from BO on down.

    I some times wonder what color the sky is in their world - but I sure don't want to go there and find out.

    Ted has never been sure of anything having to do with BO, nor is he right. This is not a person thinking they have it all wrapped up. I really think he is being defensive. He stepped in it really deep by making the statement 'ready on day one' and Caroline using the comparison to her father. Can you imagine what some peole may be saying to him because of the stark reality in the difference?

    PS 101 - you don't talk like this to win or if you are winning unless you are an idiot.  

    [ Parent ]

    Unless Obama Is Stupid Enough To Push Them (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:29:18 PM EST
    out of campaigning for him, Bill and Hillary will, as they have said, work their @sses off to get him elected.

    [ Parent ]
    What is it about the Clintons (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by lilburro on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:34:40 PM EST
    that makes people just want to destroy them?  

    Literally, CDS left and right.  Why?  

    [ Parent ]

    Huh? (none / 0) (#49)
    by squeaky on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:27:22 PM EST
    I do not understand your comment, if that was a response to mine.

    [ Parent ]
    It is very responsive (none / 0) (#73)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:33:43 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    OK (none / 0) (#140)
    by squeaky on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:02:53 PM EST
    I have no idea as to what your point is, really. If you have a problem with what I have said please be more specific because I do not know what should never be said "REMOTELY LIKE THAT publically. EVER."

    Really I am in the dark.

    [ Parent ]

    OK (none / 0) (#216)
    by squeaky on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:12:41 PM EST
    Got it, and yes I agree. I thought you were referring to something I said that should never be repeated publicly.

    Clearly a divisive move. There are many Dems who feel the same way as Kennedy though. Mainly older people that see new blood coming into the party via Obama, and see the Clintons as unattractive to young new potential democrats.

    I wonder if he was referring to Robert Reich's nobel causes v just causes, because Obama fits the ticket, and he appears to be in favor of Obama.

    Politics is more than merely the pursuit of power. At its best, it involves the articulation of noble aspirations, on the one hand, and just causes, on the other. These are not at all the same thing. Noble aspirations are appeals to people's better instincts. Movements do not spring from noble aspirations... Just causes, by contrast, are moral crusades... Just causes are political in the most basic sense: They seek to change the political order for all time.
    [snip]
    For most of this century, the Democratic Party has been the party of just causes... The Republican Party of the twentieth century has been the purveyor of noble aspirations--in marked contrast to the famously just cause into which it was born.... We seem to be engaged now in a fundamental reversal of political temperament.

    link


    [ Parent ]

    And should maybe the time will be 2012 for Hillary (none / 0) (#83)
    by Salt on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:36:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    exactly (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:37:44 PM EST
    Hillary will be around to pick up the pieces in 4 years.


    [ Parent ]
    Re: Look (none / 0) (#213)
    by Sleeper on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:10:12 PM EST
    But you're talking as if the Obama campaign called a press conference and asked Kennedy to go out there and make these remarks.  Or as if it's Kennedy himself who's running.

    Again, people willing to give up on the country because of a snippy comment from a non-candidate just seem incredibly petty to me.  I'm hoping tempers calm down over the next few months.

    [ Parent ]

    himself (none / 0) (#32)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:19:29 PM EST
    no doubt

    [ Parent ]
    nobler aspirations? (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:17:46 PM EST
    Uh...hmmm...errrrr...(trying very hard not to swear here)...for crying out loud...

    All you guys really miss the point... (5.00 / 8) (#31)
    by Upstart Crow on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:18:59 PM EST
    IMVHO.

    You keep saying what fools and cretins Kennedy, Kerry, et al. are, and we could really have a winning Democratic party this fall if it weren't for them.

    They ARE the party.  This is it.  These are the leaders.  There's no more in the box.

    Time to bail.

    touche (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:19:57 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    All you guys miss the point... (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:30:06 PM EST
    I'm seriously considering bailing. I can't believe this is best the Deomocratic Party can do. Any good independent candidates?

    [ Parent ]
    Write in (5.00 / 0) (#175)
    by cal1942 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:30:03 PM EST
    vote for Hillary Clinton.  Since her name was on the primary ballot in all states I believe that she would be a legitimate write-in candidate.

    Laws differ from state to state. Check state law to determine those people who are eligible to legitimately receive write-in votes.

    [ Parent ]

    writehillaryin (none / 0) (#217)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:13:07 PM EST
    I believe the site is called writehillaryin.  Very few states automatically allow it.  Some prohibit it outright and some prohibit it if the candidate lost in a primary.  If a voter wants their vote counted, the candidate needs to submit paperwork.  She'd never do it.  The write-ins would simply be ignored.

    [ Parent ]
    Kennedy credibility (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:19:50 PM EST
    has eroded greatly this primary season. If he were able to endorse, with sound reason, and decline to use innuendo as insults he wouldn't look so captive to his own personal agenda.

    This country speaks through it's vote. I'll use my voice. No holding my nose and marking anything as the lesser of two evils. Not this time. It's not just the candidate in 2008, the party itself is forcing a mass exit of the sustaining base.


    Exactly. (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by Iris on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:52:27 PM EST
    But I should remind you that with a strong showing in the upcoming primaries we can send a big middle finger to these 'leaders' and force the supers to think twice at the convention - the Clintons did it once before, remember?  I think we forget the good parts about Hillary's legacy from the 90's because the Obots constantly remind of us the bad (the true and the monstrously false).

    [ Parent ]
    I spoke through my vote in 2000 (none / 0) (#162)
    by so tired on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:20:57 PM EST
    and I've regretted it ever since. I was very disappointed in Al Gore because every word out of his mouth was about how he agreed with his opponent. Because he had all of these distracting media-driven negatives around him that he couldn't quiet them down. It felt like this massive race to the bottom and I was just couldn't bring myself to do it.

    I'm about to disclose something shocking, something I haven't discussed in about seven years. (deep breath.) I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000.

    I rationalized it: the nation survived Reagan, the nation survived Nixon; there are checks and balances--Congress and the Supreme Court wouldn't allow Bush to do anything too moronic; Gore might win anyway; I was in a "safe state"; a significant Nader protest vote would teach the Dems not to alienate the liberal base of the party. I thought I had so many great reasons. I honestly thought the worst case scenario couldn't be that bad.

    And through that first uneventful summer this seemed to be the case. Bush had abysmal approval ratings, he hadn't accomplished anything, and he had already taken what felt like dozens of six week vacations to Crawford. Al Gore had grown a beard and put on weight, and because of a long succession of slow news days this somehow became noteworthy.

    Then, as George Bush is fond of saying, everything changed. The worst case scenario suddenly became much worse. I don't need to rehash how; you know.

    The other irony is that weak-willed middle-mongerer over the next 8 years turned into a hugely important progressive voice that I respect deeply. I wonder what I missed in 2000, how the media manipulated me.

    I didn't teach the Democrats anything with my "protest" and I still feel like a jackass for my "principled" stand. I also don't look forward to being asked by my son, whom I plan on raising to be very politically conscious, about whom I've cast my vote for over the years. We all get one "oops" I hope. I wish mine wasn't so monumentally bad and didn't come at what turned out to be such a critical juncture.

    I don't really expect to change anyone's mind, I'm just an over-sharer who's been harboring a secret for a while. I hope someone gains something from it though.

    [ Parent ]

    stop it (none / 0) (#169)
    by Salo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:26:25 PM EST
    It's highly unlikely that this concoction will work.  

    [ Parent ]
    Insult (none / 0) (#192)
    by cal1942 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:44:59 PM EST
    has been a characteristic of politicos who've endorsed Obama.  From Ted Kennedy to John Kerry to Bill Richardson to Russ Feingold (D-Appointee Rubber Stamp).

    Russ Feingold is a special case.  He needlessly and viciously trashed John Edwards as he endorsed Obama just before the Nevada caucus.

    Endorsements are a part of politics but I can't remember a time when politicos made endorsements while virulently trashing the opponent.

    One small satisfaction was when Massachusetts voters gave Hillary an overwhelming victory after Kennedy and Kerry had endorsed Obama.

    [ Parent ]

    Goodbye Democratic Party (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Bob Boardman on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:24:24 PM EST
    Someone might want to warn the Democratic Party....

    Eight years ago a lot of Democrats in Michigan were happy to vote for John McCain in the Republican primary.

    As one of them, I won't have any trouble voting against Ted Kennedy and the Obama crowd for John McCain this fall.

    Perhaps a big loss in congressional voting this fall will destroy the Republican Party.

    And a big Obama loss this fall will help destroy the Democratic Party.

    That is the kind of change, I'll be voting for.


    i wouldn't count on big congressional (none / 0) (#67)
    by hellothere on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:32:31 PM EST
    wins for the democrats. of course the local guy whom everyone likes might be fine. but there WILL BE NO COATAILS.

    in fact if they keep this up, and i mean this dissing of working americans, the religeous(they get it no matter no much obama might pander), the latinos, women, jewish voters. basically i guess anyone who is in the creative class, latte gulper, or aa; then you can expect a massive and i mean a massive backlash.

    [ Parent ]

    It wouldn't be the first time it would have (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:26:29 PM EST
    better if Teddy wasn't "helping" Democrats in a presidential campaign.

    My Mom and I were talking about how we thought it would have been better if McGovern had refrained from "helping" too.

    If this is their way of healing rifts (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by Left of center on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:26:59 PM EST
    within the Democratic party, then i must question weather or not Obama is just some Karl Rove GOP plant who's ultimate goal is to take down Hillary in order to keep the GOP in power.
    Before i'm labeled as some tin foil hat nutjob, think about it for a second. The Democratic party was Mostly united behind Hillary 6 months ago, now,we've never been more divided.

    hopefully, it's all on purpose (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by DandyTIger on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:27:46 PM EST
    Hopefully the NDP formation, kicking out bubbas, kicking out and trying to destroy the Clinton wing of the party is all on purpose. And who knows, perhaps there new party could be strong and win. I feel bad that this new party doesn't include me and doesn't seem to really care about the issues I care about. It's quite sad. But perhaps they know what they're doing and it's on purpose, and they have an actual game plan. Well, either that or they're complete idiots. :-)

    Weakening (5.00 / 1) (#225)
    by cal1942 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:22:18 PM EST
    the middle class (toss out the Bubbas, screw the workers) is a losing strategy for the Democratic Party and especially for the nation. Shrinking the middle class weakens the nation.

    Leaving only an electoral choice between right and farther right (in economic terms) will further diminish participation in the political process.

    During the "roaring 20s" both parties were fairly conservative.  After 1920 the percentage of eligible voters participating in elections dropped throughout the decade and was little improved in 1932.  In 1936, after four years of Roosevelt, the participating percentage shot up dramatically.

    The struggle for the soul of the Democratic Party that we're witnessing in this campaign, will, IMO, have potential long range impact on the nation.

    [ Parent ]

    This is precisely (5.00 / 4) (#61)
    by Virginian on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:30:31 PM EST
    one of the reasons I could not support Obama. Kennedy, Pelosi, Kerry, Dean, etc...want a president that THEY control. They don't want to just bring the 3 branches of government back into balance, they want the swing the balance of power far back to Congress.

    Obama isn't a leader...in fact, all his public actions are those of a follower, and that is what they want...a weak president and a strong Democratic Congress (see how that turned out for Carter).

    I think you may be onto something (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:31:31 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Its the only sound logical reason (none / 0) (#91)
    by Virginian on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:38:04 PM EST
    I can see for experienced pols like Kennedy or Pelosi jumping on the Obama bandwagon...and frankly they don't come off like Obama bandwagon koolaide drinkers either...they come off as shrewd pols advocating and posturing for some sort of personal gain...

    [ Parent ]
    Obama is an egotist though. (5.00 / 0) (#106)
    by Salo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:44:52 PM EST
    he could burn out like a Caligula.  Hailed at first by the serious men of Rome and then villified for upsetting their customs. (one reading of Caligula is that he was making fun of a bunch of stuck up prigs by appointing his horse to the senate and being a baudy poltroon by pretending to conquer Britain.)

    Obama'll end up making them regret thinking he's weak I suspect. He's got his own destiny to fulfill.  Not like the fun & games  Caligula had though.

    [ Parent ]

    obama won't make it to the wh so (5.00 / 0) (#149)
    by hellothere on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:07:36 PM EST
    i suppose his deeds that the dem elders will regret must be done in the general election.

    [ Parent ]
    Close... (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by oldpro on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:09:50 PM EST
    they didn't 'jump on the bandwagon.'  It only looks that way because they bided their time before going public with their support.

    They went looking for a candidate to beat Hillary and drafted Obama for that express purpose.

    Only an AA could have called the Clintons racists and made it stick with blacks, depriving them of a solid base of Dems for Hillary.

    And it worked.

    Talk about cynical.

    They couldn't win the presidency themselves, Daschle, Kerry, Kennedy and they do not really care if the Dems win the presidency...just so long as it isn't a Clinton.

    But if Obama pulls off a miracle...hey!  He'll owe them everything and they'll be in the driver's seat at both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue.

    [ Parent ]

    Don't forget, Ted Kennedy was instrumental ... (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by dwmorris on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:31:08 PM EST
    in mortally-wounding Carter, which opened the door for the Reagan revolution (the reults of which we are still reaping in the form of Bush, the lessor and perhaps now McCain).

    In spite of his other good works, I am dismayed that Democrats look to "elders" like Kennedy for sage advice on how to move forward.

    Universal Healthcare (5.00 / 5) (#74)
    by Petey on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:33:45 PM EST
    Off-topic, but Team Clinton has finally answered my prayers.

    They're hitting Obama on universal healthcare in Oregon.

    "You've got to have a seamless health care system which covers every single person. My plan does, my opponent's doesn't.... How can anyone run to be the Democratic nominee and not have a universal health care plan?"

    About time.

    Funny (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by TheRealFrank on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:35:25 PM EST
    And this from a guy who, as a senior member of the party, was very worried about Bill Clinton stepping over the line and tarnishing the reputation of a former president.

    Of course, Kennedy said that a few days before endorsing Oba