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Clinton May Have Lost, But Sexism Remains Rampant

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:40:12 AM EST
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Balloon Juice and Oliver Willis enjoyed this nasty bit of sexism - Hillary Clinton: Psycho Ex-Girlfriend Of The Democratic Party.

Is there any self awareness left in the blogs? Or do these folks really want to alienate every Clinton supporter in the country?

P.S. The blogger who wrote that post's ironic slogan? "Don't be a d*ck!" Try it some time dude.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

Comments closed.

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    Clinton May Have Lost, But Sexism Remains Rampant | 200 comments (200 topical)
    I guess they're still not (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by pie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:45:26 AM EST
    100% sure he's going to be the nominee, so the ad hominems must continue.

    What immature little boys they are.

    I don't think thats it..... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:48:19 AM EST
    ...they just can't stop.

    [ Parent ]
    It's who they are hiding it serves no real purpose (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by Salt on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:31:47 PM EST
    Women will act and vote in their interest, they are the largest block in the electorate. If I was a women who had a DNC card I would burn it, but I am not and I don't vote Party I vote my interest, my community's interest.  

    [ Parent ]
    I tore up & mailed my (5.00 / 4) (#205)
    by angie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:41:39 PM EST
    voter's registration card (DEM) to the DNC yesterday along with a nice note to Dr. Dean specifically telling him that unless he seats FL & MI in a meaningful way not to count on my vote again. (Meanwhile, I re-registered as an IND). I also told him to good luck with winning in Nov. without the women, latinos and blue collar workers that Donna B. says you don't "need" and that if he was any kind of leader he would stand up and restore the values of equality, social justice and inclusion to the party. I will not hold my breath waiting for an answer.

    [ Parent ]
    I cancelled my Nation (5.00 / 2) (#233)
    by abfabdem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    subscription this week.  That felt good!  We can also vote with our dollars.

    [ Parent ]
    OUCH! (5.00 / 5) (#217)
    by Leisa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:46:42 PM EST
    I have been thinking about it...  I have been a Dem for 24 years and feel very disgusted with part of the party right now.

    [ Parent ]
    Independence (5.00 / 6) (#222)
    by joanneleon on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:52:05 PM EST
    I've been a registered dem for almost 30 years.  I'm going to declare my independence from the party by changing my registration.  I will send something to the DNC as well.  

    Heck, Independents get more consideration anyway, from all parties.

    [ Parent ]

    boy this victory lap they are taking.... (5.00 / 7) (#5)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:46:53 AM EST
    ...around the net is quite a thing to behold, isn't it? You know what, I think that the reason that Obama has a certain affinity for Ronald Reagan is that he is a bit like Reagan himself. He makes his supporters feel like they are special, just the way they are. They don't need to change, everyone else does.

    As evidence by the fawning, bowing, and (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by oculus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:49:54 AM EST
    scraping in the House of Representatives yesterday.  

    [ Parent ]
    BIngo. (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Fabian on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:51:43 AM EST
    If that's what takes to get into their club, I don't want to join.

    [ Parent ]
    If he's already won (5.00 / 5) (#64)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:06:01 PM EST
    then why is it that he's not the winner?

    I mean-seriously.  Have you seen the latest polls for WVA and KY?  

    She's going to close the delegate gap pretty swiftly.  If she gets to within a hundred, and gets the popular vote lead, then what?

    [ Parent ]

    I Keep Asking That Same Question...They Have (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:08:27 PM EST
    this false bravado while they are cowering inside, because at some level they must know their guy doesn't have it in the bag.  There has to be at least a few smart supporters on the obama side that can figure this out.

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly Kathy (5.00 / 1) (#208)
    by angie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:43:08 PM EST
    please stop buying the meme people -- GOTV in WV.

    [ Parent ]
    obama, the audacity of hope, change and (5.00 / 5) (#70)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:06:44 PM EST
    kumbaya, has some of the most vicious supporters I have ever come across.  He revels in the fact that he never has to get his hands dirty, when he has so many lemmings that will do it for him.  I do not trust this guy one whit.

    [ Parent ]
    I went to the websites yesterday. (5.00 / 6) (#107)
    by Fabian on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:15:02 PM EST
    Compared these two pages.  
    Hillary's blew me away
    compared to Obama's.

    I was specifically looking for Women's Issues.  Neither site lists that specific phrase.  Hillary's lists nice broad, cohesive policies.  Obama's lists a laundry list of Issues - including children, seniors, the disabled but not women.  Obama's reads like a lists of "special interests" while Hillary's reads like a list of "common concerns".

    Points to whoever created Clinton's website.  Great job!  Obama?  Not so much.  And for the long laundry list of Issues, I still can't believe he (his advisors) included so many but still managed to leave out Women.

    I do encourage people to look for themselves.  It was very interesting.  (Should I check out McCain?)

    [ Parent ]

    Here is McCain (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:25:00 PM EST
    From his website:

    John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench. Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.

    However, the reversal of Roe v. Wade represents only one step in the long path toward ending abortion. Once the question is returned to the states, the fight for life will be one of courage and compassion - the courage of a pregnant mother to bring her child into the world and the compassion of civil society to meet her needs and those of her newborn baby. The pro-life movement has done tremendous work in building and reinforcing the infrastructure of civil society by strengthening faith-based, community, and neighborhood organizations that provide critical services to pregnant mothers in need.

    Code language... services to pregnant mothers means 'we care about your health in the womb, once your born... eh, not so much.  Pull yourselves up by your bootstraps.'  

    [ Parent ]

    Really? "Psycho ex-girlfriend" is more (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by so tired on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:23:01 PM EST
    vicious than "Thug Politics" which is the current top post at Hillaryis44? Regardless of whether you agree with the substantive portion of that post, "thug" is code  for "dangerous black man."

    Besides, in the piece that sparked the outrage, the theoretical ex-boyfriend left Hillary for Obama, so the gender politics at play are a little more complicated than "we don't take women seriously." Really the message is "poorly written comedy pieces based on metaphors that can't support the premise aren't funny." I could rally behind that. But "vicious" is giving it more power than it deserves.

    [ Parent ]

    You joined to say (5.00 / 5) (#164)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:28:04 PM EST
    "dangerous black man."?  I can feel the unity now. We've been told we are racist so many times it has no effect, in fact, it is tiring.

    [ Parent ]
    Well, I didn't call anyone racist (none / 0) (#223)
    by so tired on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:53:28 PM EST
    I said one person who wrote one post on a completely different blog used an inflammatory word. I try not to make globalizing statements like the one you're suggesting I made as I find it counterproductive, logically unsound, and kind of mean. If anyone here took it as a shot at Clinton herself or her supporters across the board or even at the person who wrote that post on Hillaryis44 (this is an important distinction to me; I take umbrage with the word choice and the post but I would never suggest that I'm in a position to judge the person behind it), I apologize.

    My point: supporters of neither candidate are blameless in the truly awful tone of this campaign. Focusing on the negativity accomplishes nothing. Focusing on it selectively and angrily accomplishes worse than nothing.

    Incidentally I didn't register to say "dangerous black man" -- I registered last night after months of lurking just in case I ever felt moved to speak. I didn't think the spirit would get to me so fast, but hey, it's lively here.

    [ Parent ]

    gimme a break (5.00 / 3) (#203)
    by moll on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:40:40 PM EST
    Regardless of whether you agree with the substantive portion of that post, "thug" is code  for "dangerous black man."

    Thug isn't a racially coded word.

    [ Parent ]

    I Guess My Eyesight Has Deteriorated More (5.00 / 4) (#220)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:51:00 PM EST
    than I thought. I never realized that Bush's more obnoxious and threatening supporters were"dangerous black men." I have been calling them thugs for 7+ years.

    [ Parent ]
    And Obama is like your ex sweetheart's (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by tigercourse on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:48:18 AM EST
    jack*** new boyfriend who you know isn't good enough for her.

    I heard a female caller (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by ruffian on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:48:27 AM EST
    say this same thing very smugly on Bill Press's XM radio show yesterday morning.  They think they are being very funny and clever. Reading too much Maureen Dowd.

    Say it with me: self-loathing, wanna-be (5.00 / 7) (#16)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:49:17 AM EST
    cool with the boys types.

    [ Parent ]
    Sooo true (5.00 / 6) (#28)
    by ruffian on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:54:07 AM EST
    Most of the women I know who do not like Clinton on that vicious personal level are exactly that type.

    I know anecdotal evidence is not statistically significant, but it is interesting nonetheless.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, yes, YES! (5.00 / 2) (#218)
    by Leisa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:49:58 PM EST
    That is the case with the ones I know... (many also voted for Bush the last time they cast a vote for POTUS!  How about that!)

    [ Parent ]
    It'll be HI-Larious when the psycho ex-girlfriend (5.00 / 11) (#13)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:48:45 AM EST
    takes her millions of other girlfriends with her to the couch in November! I can't wait.

    How funny will it be... (none / 0) (#123)
    by Adept Havelock on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:18:17 PM EST
    When McCain appoints two more SC justices and tips the Supreme Court hard to the right for a couple of decades?

    Remember, Clarence Thomas got in with a Democratic majority in the legislature.  Any reason to expect it wouldn't happen again (probably twice?).  Not that I can see.

    [ Parent ]

    That said... (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by Adept Havelock on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:19:33 PM EST
    Oliver Willis has the mentality of a three year old and the class of...well, I really can't think of anything equivalently low at the moment.

    [ Parent ]
    I will laugh and say "I told you so." (5.00 / 5) (#147)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:24:21 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    So... (none / 0) (#155)
    by Adept Havelock on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:26:19 PM EST
    You'll laugh as worker protections are lost, Roe Vs. Wade is overturned, the Imperial Executive is further legitimized?  Oh, and likely another 4-8 years of more of the same in Iraq.

    Nice to know you consider being proved right more important than those things.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes. Yes, I will. (5.00 / 9) (#169)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:29:02 PM EST
    Because Obama decided long ago he didn't care about those things as he attacked the last great Democratic president and has cut Hillary in every way possible even though she is more qualified, more intelligent, and appeals to more people than he does.  So when he loses, yes, I will laugh. And when he reaps what he sows I will laugh.  I will laugh at the Democratic establishment that wanted a golden goose at the expense of every Democratic ideal that I've ever held.

    The party has left me. So I will leave the party.  And let them implode unto themselves.

    [ Parent ]

    The DNP kicked workers to the curb (5.00 / 4) (#186)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:34:10 PM EST
    The memo from the New Democratic Party is out with the bubbas and in with the creative class.  Donna Brazile announced the party is no longer dependent on the working class.

    [ Parent ]
    Dear Adept (5.00 / 4) (#188)
    by Chimster on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:34:35 PM EST
    You are correct. Obviously, no one wants what you suggest. But when we have Obama shoved down our throat by a majority of bloggers and pundits, we want to go into attack mode. The whole ex-girlfriend line just exacerbates the problem.

    Personally, I think Obama will lose the GE. Just as Gore and Kerry had before him. So, my reaction is to make sure we win. And the way to do that is to nominate Hillary. And I will fight in any way I can to make sure that happens. You and Willis and the rest of the bloggers and MSM are just getting in my way. Nothing personal.

    [ Parent ]

    Well now, Supreme Court Justices (5.00 / 3) (#225)
    by Leisa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:54:31 PM EST
    have to be approved don't they???

    Sandra Day O'Connor was the BEST thing to ever happen to the Supreme Court and a Republican nominated her.  Her influence and legacy are still there.

    I love these fear tactics.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama Wanted To Confirm Roberts (5.00 / 8) (#163)
    by Blue Jean on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:28:03 PM EST
    Because he "admired his intellect".  The only reason he didn't was because an aide told him it would be bad for his political future.  Once he's President, what's to stop him from appointing more Roberts?  He'd probably be glad to do so, in the spirit of the new "transcendence" and everything.

    [ Parent ]
    Then, maybe the left (5.00 / 5) (#170)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:29:44 PM EST
    will say, "Gee, maybe we shoulda voted for the woman -- the one who actually supports women's rights rather than waffles on them".  Then maybe she would have been elected, and we wouldn't have had McCain.

    [ Parent ]
    And from the couch they can watch and laugh (none / 0) (#131)
    by IndiDemGirl on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:20:56 PM EST
    when McCain gets to nominated 1, 2, maybe 3 to the Supreme Court.

    The presumptive Republican presidential nominee said that Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. "would serve as the model for my own nominees, if that responsibility falls to me,"

    [ Parent ]

    Try another one..... (5.00 / 4) (#158)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:26:38 PM EST
    ....like all the other charges leveled at people who don't support Obama, that one too has lost its sting. I have no intention of voting for John McCain but I am still on the fence about Obama. I have been told by Brazile and others that I don't matter so pardon me if I am having a hard time swallowing that the composition of the Supreme Court rests on my shoulders.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama was going to vote FOR (5.00 / 6) (#175)
    by nycstray on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:31:04 PM EST
    Roberts before he was clued in it would not look good for his political future.

    Now, I should vote for Obama why? I'm leaving the "Rights Fight" to the younger generation. It's time they stepped up and got a taste of it. Maybe, just maybe, they'll 'get it'.

    [ Parent ]

    If you all believe (none / 0) (#191)
    by Adept Havelock on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:35:33 PM EST
    There will be no difference between McCain's nominees and (if he gets the nomination) Obama's, I don't see it, but your results may differ.  

    As for me, my overwhelming interest is, and has been, keeping the court from going hard right for the next generation.  IMO, those are the stakes.

     

    [ Parent ]

    Obama stated that ideology should not (5.00 / 5) (#227)
    by Joan in VA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:57:10 PM EST
    be a factor in confirming a Supreme. I really have no idea who he would appoint. If you do, please share.

    [ Parent ]
    When I Hear From Obama Exactly What Types (5.00 / 5) (#229)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:57:46 PM EST
    of people he will nominate (with examples), I will take the SCOTUS into consideration when I vote. So far his rhetoric about choice has not convinced me that his nominations will protect those things that I care about.

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly.... (none / 0) (#160)
    by Adept Havelock on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:27:41 PM EST
    It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face, IMO.

    I'll be pulling that lever whomever is on the ticket.  Why?  I don't want a hard-right Supreme Court for the next generation.

    [ Parent ]

    Oliver Willis used to call himself (5.00 / 8) (#15)
    by MarkL on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:49:12 AM EST
    "Kryptonite to stupid".
    I think he has become "Dumberer to dumber"

    Who is Oliver Willis? (5.00 / 4) (#71)
    by Chimster on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:07:09 PM EST
    and why does he matter?

    [ Parent ]
    I Often Wonder The Same Thing n/t (3.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Oliver Willis on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:07:54 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    wonder no more (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by kenoshaMarge on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:09:48 PM EST
    you don't!

    [ Parent ]
    I just visited your website (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by Chimster on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:15:58 PM EST
    You seem like a sincere Obama supporter. I certainly respect your rights as a blogger. However, as people tell Hillary "You're dividing the party with Racism", I wonder how you are helping the Democratic party, by trashing Hillary. You certainly won't keep me from voting for Obama if he's the nominee, but you are doing no one in the party any favors.

    If you switched to just attacking McCain and supporting your candidate rather than dragging down the other, I'd love to visit your blog more often than once in my life.

    [ Parent ]

    At least you're not an (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by ding7777 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:18:04 PM EST
    ex-Republican or ex-Naderite or ex-Independent as so many Obama supporters are.  

    [ Parent ]
    Bravo.. (5.00 / 2) (#206)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:41:42 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    No Sense (3.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Oliver Willis on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:00:26 PM EST
    Not only does that make no sense, my slogan is still the same.

    [ Parent ]
    Sensitive, much? (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by MarkL on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:01:13 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    If you want sensitive (none / 0) (#55)
    by Oliver Willis on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:03:44 PM EST
    look up up up this thread

    [ Parent ]
    Technorati never cases to amaze me. (none / 0) (#103)
    by oculus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:14:08 PM EST
    So quick.

    [ Parent ]
    Misogyny replaced racism? (5.00 / 11) (#24)
    by dianem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:52:19 AM EST
    Do Americans have a deep seated hatred of women? I know, this sounds crazy. 6 months ago I would not have asked this question. But... when I think about it, there are telling signs. I recall a recent ad for a movie in which a black man was dominating an attractive woman in chains. If the situation had been reversed, I have no doubt it would have led to a national scandal. Message: Women in chains = ok.

    People in America seem ignorant of women's place in history, while they are hyper-aware of black history. Women's history is mocked. Women are perceived to have been a privileged class, free from the oppression that black's were subject to. The truth is quite different. In many states, women were considerd property, functionally, if not legally, to be transferred from the care of their father to the care of their husbands. Women were not allowed to own property, vote, or travel without supervision. They had no reproductive freedom, and their husbands could beat them, or even sometimes kill them, without fear of repercussion. They were generally treated better than slaves, but not always, and not all slaves were mistreated. They were considered valuable property and most of their owners felt an obligation to take good care of them. Does that make it right to deny people basic rights? Some women were granted more freedom by their caretakers, but they were not considered equal under the eyes of the law.

    I'm not whining. Really. I believe that it is our responsibility to make the best of life. Everybody is handed challenges, and it's our job to deal with them and make a success out of life. Everybody faces prejudices of some type or other: poverty, race, gender, physical appearance. Even white men face challenges. But it makes me sad that it is socially permissible to make sexist remarks about a respected woman. In a hundred years they will look back on this race and wonder at how primitive we were, if they remember it at all.

    I Agree (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by squeaky on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:04:17 PM EST
    Except that turning it into a competition between sexism and racism weakens your argument. It is not a competition, both are blights in our society and need to be called out whenever they rise their ugly heads.

    I am amazed that Oliver Willis and Balloon Juice posted this kind of crap, and that it was not roundly condemned by their readers.

    [ Parent ]

    It's not a contest (5.00 / 4) (#135)
    by dianem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:21:31 PM EST
    I hope I didn't imply "my group's suffering is worse than yours".  I simply meant to point out that the suffering of black in our history is widely acknowledges, while women's suffering is not acknowledged. All oppression is wrong. Any time a person is held back from being what they want to be by social factors, it is wrong.

    [ Parent ]
    You Misunderstand My Point (none / 0) (#198)
    by squeaky on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:39:20 PM EST
    I simply meant to point out that the suffering of black in our history is widely acknowledges, while women's suffering is not acknowledged.

    Making this kind of statement turns racism and sexism into a competition. Speaking in generalities like this seems ill informed, and helps to perpetuate discrimination by suggesting you have special information to know that one type of oppression is more virulent than another, imo.

    Why make any comparison at all, many of your potential allies will be estranged by this kind of talk.

    [ Parent ]

    Why we have marriage licenses (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by BarnBabe on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:14:29 PM EST
    Proof of ownership at one time. That is why I commented yesterday that this election is very personal for women. It wasn't always, but it is now.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree (5.00 / 7) (#171)
    by Just another person on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:30:00 PM EST
    I didn't feel so strongly about a woman president till the blogs and the MSM started on their sexist and misogynistic BS.

    [ Parent ]
    Childish (1.00 / 9) (#77)
    by HeadScratcher on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:08:13 PM EST
    Please don't compare women's history in the United States to that of African Americans. While there was and is sexism, it pales in comparison to the millions of African Americans who died during the years of slavery and Jim Crow. Remember, some white women owend slaves but not the other way around.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, for the love of god (5.00 / 13) (#92)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:12:06 PM EST
    Go back to the freakin' cavemen and tell me how women were treated.  Do you know how many women are being raped right now in the world?  Do you know how many women are having their genitals sliced off with Coke bottles right now?  Do you know how many are being burned alive, beaten, tortured and thrown out into the streets?

    Blacks owned slaves, too.  If that is your argument, you need to look at history.  

    [ Parent ]

    That is also not a helpful comment. (5.00 / 6) (#96)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:13:28 PM EST
    And you clearly don't know much about women's history. If we enter into a competition to assign levels of heinousness to oppression what of the Jews or the Indians? And is the competition open to groups outside of our shores? Or is it just Americans.

    [ Parent ]
    I got news for you (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by cawaltz on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:13:47 PM EST
    There ar women STILL dying because of men who believe they have the right to put their hands on women and treeat them like property. You might wnt to do some research on domestic violence.

    Hell, our country just sanctioned putting womens lives at risk because they get queasy over the idea that a fetus might be harmed after it has become viable(nevemind that women don't terminate after months of mouring sicknes and swelling for no darned reason). Don't go telling me about history.

    [ Parent ]

    Feel free to educate yourself (5.00 / 2) (#207)
    by cawaltz on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:42:01 PM EST
    http://www.endabuse.org/resources/facts/

    Stalkers aren't funny and intimating someone is one for continuing a legitimate process that is available to her is less than humorous from were I'm sitting. Then again, I watched my father beat the crap out of my mother for the first twelve or so odd years of my life.

    [ Parent ]

    I guess no women were slaves then? (5.00 / 8) (#105)
    by madamab on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:14:38 PM EST
    Give it up.

    We have seen during this primary that America has made a lot of strides towards reducing the effects of racism, while misogyny is alive, well, and such a part of our society that most people are still in denial about it.

    We need to realize the problem before we can resolve it. We know all about racism, but misogyny is still the hatred that dare not speak its name.

    [ Parent ]

    Au contraire (5.00 / 7) (#121)
    by miriam on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:18:05 PM EST
    In fact, there were a rather large number of blacks in pre-Civil War South Carolina who owned slaves.  There have been several books written on this, including one titled Black Masters.  And let us not forget that the foremost slavers in Africa were black.  Trying to pit the nasty "accomplishments" of one race against the other is not only racist, it is self-defeating.

    [ Parent ]
    That's the problem (5.00 / 5) (#127)
    by dianem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:19:10 PM EST
    How many women died in childbirth because their husband's demanded one more child and birth control was unavailable to them? How many women died of starvation or abuse because their caretakers didn't care for them? White women did not own slaves, but black men had wives, and, like white men, sometimes they cared for them and sometimes they didn't. Why is women's suffering less important than black suffering? Becasue fewer women suffered? How many is acceptable? Did fewer women suffer? I don't have answers for that. There was no women's "Roots". Is it better to die in childbirthy than due to slavery?

    Black men had the vote before white women, but women were more widely allowed to vote. But what is the difference if you can't vote because your husband forbids it or because some people don't want those of your race to vote?

    [ Parent ]

    It is Counterproductive To Argue (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by squeaky on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:21:02 PM EST
    What kind of discrimination is worse. It is much more effective to argue that discrimination based on sex, skin color, religion is wrong period and there is a long history of it still in the making.

    [ Parent ]
    You forgot (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by Upstart Crow on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:41:05 PM EST
    And age.

    [ Parent ]
    Read up on white slavery (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by ding7777 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:21:35 PM EST
    or p!mps for that matter

    [ Parent ]
    last i checked, about 100% of reported (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by kangeroo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:24:48 PM EST
    rapes today of black women in america are by black males.

    [ Parent ]
    Now you have to provide a link for that.... (none / 0) (#168)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:28:33 PM EST
    ...because I don't believe it.

    [ Parent ]
    According to U.S. DOJ's (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by kangeroo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:34:48 PM EST
    Criminal Victimization in the United States, there were overall 111,490 white and 36,620 black victims of rape or sexual assault reported in 2005. Out of the 111,490 cases involving white victims, 44.5% (49,613) had white offenders and 33.6% (37,461) had black offenders, while the 36,620 black victims had a figure of 100% black offenders, with a 0.0% estimation for any other race based on ten or fewer sample cases.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks. I still find it hard to believe. (none / 0) (#199)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:39:43 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    i don't. black women have long been (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by kangeroo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:44:11 PM EST
    pressured to keep quiet about wrongs inflicted on them by males in the aa community for the good of so-called racial progress.  it's nothing new; it's just a relatively well-kept secret.

    [ Parent ]
    Is This The Movie You're Referring To? (none / 0) (#179)
    by Blue Jean on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:32:02 PM EST
    Black Snake Moan?

    No, the image isn't OK, but the movie itself isn't bad.  The "woman in chains" was thrown in there for the BO.  Let's face it, as Mike Nelson said; "captive women" gets audiences excited."

    [ Parent ]

    "Hierarchy of Discrimination" (none / 0) (#197)
    by feet on earth on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:38:32 PM EST
    Spare me the "Hierarchy of Discrimination". It is a "divide and conquer" technique that weakens human rights.

    We have seen its devastating effects when one group claims more entitlement to human rights than another, including in this campaign.

    [ Parent ]

    Purging the party of all things Clinton (5.00 / 6) (#27)
    by cawaltz on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:54:04 AM EST
    Ain't it grand? Pretty soon we will have the same rift that the GOP has between conservatives and the religious factions(You know the rift we used to laugh about and see as our opportunity). Then we will fulfill our destiny by losing yet again. It's what Democrats seem to love to do(bangig my head againt a desk). Can we please have a thrd choice? Pretty please.

    You'd think all these people... (5.00 / 8) (#33)
    by OrangeFur on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:55:12 AM EST
    ... are trying to tick off all the Clinton voters.

    You think you can call our candidate racist, arrogant, psycho, etc. and then ask for our votes? All of you can go straight to [somewhere].

    Obama needs to tell these people to rein it in, if only in his own self-interest.

    Since There Is No Doubt In Their Minds That (5.00 / 6) (#36)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:56:14 AM EST
    Obama will be the nominee, wouldn't it be better for them to devote their bandwidth to McCain? Makes me wonder if they will spend the run up to the GE still bashing Hillary and ignoring McCain.

    Of course! (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by pie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:58:59 AM EST
    That's what makes this continued behavior so repugnant, so immature, so harmful.

    [ Parent ]
    Wouldn't it be better to (none / 0) (#133)
    by lorelynn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:21:07 PM EST
    devote their bandwidth to sucking up to disgruntled Clinton supporters?

    [ Parent ]
    Wouldn't it be better if they (5.00 / 3) (#152)
    by ding7777 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:25:44 PM EST
    just stopped creating more "disgruntled Clinton supporters"?  

    [ Parent ]
    BTD, i'm thankful as always (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by kangeroo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:00:08 PM EST
    for your pointing out the misogyny in this campaign, but i wish you wouldn't frame it as "may have lost"--by doing so it piles onto the manufactured narrative and i think ultimately encourages even more TSBL from these guys...

    I agree (none / 0) (#187)
    by Just another person on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:34:26 PM EST
    The start grated. While it does look likely that Obama will get the nomination, it is not certainty yet.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't think this is the place (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Fabian on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:01:02 PM EST
    for your post.

    JMO.

    Oh lordy, now that's a helpful response. (5.00 / 5) (#48)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:01:32 PM EST


    Psycho ex-girlfriends sometimes become (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:03:10 PM EST
    suicidal.  Didn't you know??

    /snark

    [ Parent ]

    LOL, I don't plan to kill myself.... (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:06:22 PM EST
    ....no matter who I choose to vote for. I'm going to live, live, live until I die. Much to the chagrin of some, I guess.

    [ Parent ]
    I keep thinking of Misty, who (none / 0) (#113)
    by oculus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:16:05 PM EST
    I believe, ended up "stuffed" by the author.  

    [ Parent ]
    "suicide mission"? (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Fabian on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:02:21 PM EST
    Nice meme.
    Who are you going to vote for?

    These guys need to take some lessons (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by bjorn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:03:29 PM EST
    from Jonathan Capehart for the Wash Post.  He is one of the best talking heads around, very objective and respectful.

    I am so over these Obama creeps, especially at Huffpost and Dailykos.  They are beating me down and making me reconsider my decision to vote for BO in november, they really are....

    You've got to be a (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by pie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:03:56 PM EST
    republican mole.  Certainly no democrat who's riding the unity pony would make such an asinine comment.

    Obama may lose, (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Chimster on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:04:04 PM EST
    But Racism remains rampant

    There are no pro-Hillary blogs (5.00 / 3) (#192)
    by lorelynn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:35:36 PM EST
    engaging in any racism that I know, much less anything as blatantly misogynist as this shit. Clinton's been called a "f*cking whore" by a major progressive voice with Obama supporters laughing uproariously in the background. If racism is a problem in the primary, where's the equivalent video?

    There is certainly still racism in the world, but it hasn't held Obama back in any fashion. Nor has anybody pointed to any evidence of it impacting this race.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh my (5.00 / 11) (#58)
    by kmblue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:04:08 PM EST
    Well, the value of any experience is what I can learn from it.  Until this election cycle began, I was tripping merrily along, thinking to myself, you've come a long way, baby!
    When the feminist movement began, I was in high school.  The day I bought my first MS. magazine, my Mom said, "Don't read that stuff, it will only make you unhappy."  Translation:  You can't fight the power.
    This year has really opened my eyes.

    As a good friend wrote to me (5.00 / 7) (#91)
    by pie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:12:00 PM EST
    recently, "They have to completely crush her.  B***h dared to want a man's job."

    She's the more qualified candidate and had te potential and the work ethic and intelligence to have been a great president.  Instead we're looking at a newbie, and some of his advisors and supporters are the very politicians that the left blogs have been criticizing for years.

    I knew it would be bad, but I never dreamed it would be this bad.


    [ Parent ]

    The sexism is blatant. (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by wurman on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:06:04 PM EST
    Shirley Chisolm, Member of Congress, New York--12th District (b. 11/30/1924, d. 1/1/2005).

    -Of my two "handicaps" being female put more obstacles in my path than being black
    -I've always met more discrimination being a woman than being black.

    Sen. Clinton has both destroyed many barriers & at the same time produced an environment in which frightened little men feel it's legitimate to speak & write in ways that they would not do in front of their mother, sister(s), or wife (wives).

    Sometimes I think if I stopped reading blogs (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by oculus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:06:10 PM EST
    [actually this is the only one I read except for the posts at Huff Po to see what's up], I wouldn't have such a negative view of Obama's supporters and pundits' assessment of the candidates.  But then the NYT starts in, so, what's the use.  

    MoDo (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by madamab on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:10:02 PM EST
    is one of the chief self-loathers and she "writes" for the Times.

    Of course, if you wanna be "in," you gotta play the game.

    No woman is ever good enough.

    [ Parent ]

    I stopped reading her, although her (none / 0) (#126)
    by oculus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:18:58 PM EST
    "electable suit" phrase was pretty good.

    [ Parent ]
    You would have to stop watching (none / 0) (#85)
    by bjorn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:10:08 PM EST
    tv too!

    [ Parent ]
    I don't except for MLB and (none / 0) (#128)
    by oculus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:19:26 PM EST
    election results.

    [ Parent ]
    Then (none / 0) (#97)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:13:43 PM EST
    you'd have

    NYT
    MSNBC
    Jon Stewart
    Katie Couric

    Nah, you'd still have problems with 'em

    [ Parent ]

    I May Be a Girl, But I Can Do Math (5.00 / 9) (#89)
    by BDB on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:11:28 PM EST
    Obama will need a very heavy turnout among democratic women to even have a chance this November.  For some reason, I don't think he's going to get it.  Hey, the Republicans may want to take away all my rights, but they would never allow a Republican woman to be treated the way the media and fellow democrats treat Clinton.  

    I believe it was a commenter named Janis on another blog who said there are two parties if you're a woman one that hates you and one that doesn't and which party your in has nothing to do with whether there is a D or R after your name.  Truer words were never spoken.

    If a vote for Obama means a vote for misogyny, a vote to empower the sexist wing of the Democratic party, I won't do it.  Because sexism and misogyny are not political issues for me, they're human rights issues and I don't generally support candidates who themselves (through sexist dogwhistles) and their supporters demean my human rights.  If I were willing to do that, I'd be a Republican.

    I can do the math, too (5.00 / 6) (#102)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:14:04 PM EST
    and the math says he hasn't won the nomination.

    What is the Obama world going to look like when Clinton gets a 30-40% win in WVA?

    [ Parent ]

    We can not vote for either (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by nycstray on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:12:40 PM EST
    We do have other choices ya know. And I would say many of us are more of a Democrat than Obama will ever be.

    Sorry, but threats and bullying just won't work anymore. I think many have moved beyond hold your nose and vote.

    I think I'll go work on my "Told ya so." T-shirts now. I have a feeling they will be a big hit in the not so distant future.

    People who demonize exes. (5.00 / 8) (#138)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:21:52 PM EST
    There is a kind of man and woman, who describes all their ex girlfriends, wives, etc as psyho or nuts.  Any person who diminishes ex lovers and spouses to some venomous hate bucket for me is not to be trusted.  First, you loved this person at one time.  Heh, it did not work out.  How does it honor you if you paint your ex as the psycho?  It always takes two.  This is the kind of cultural simplification, generality that is destructive and comes out of the: we only know how to hate contingent.  

    There's a new description of us (5.00 / 5) (#166)
    by miriam on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:28:14 PM EST
    by the ever-unifying Donna Brazile.  No Quarter has an email exchange between her and a rather innocent blogger who simply asked DB a question.

    In her highly diplomatic reply, Donna calls us Hillary supporters (without even the qualifiers such as "some of", or "a few of"): uncivil, repugnant and vile."  

    Way to go, Donna!  That surely is going to change a lot of our hearts and minds.

    Oi, so I guess I have to go to No Quarter... (none / 0) (#184)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:33:45 PM EST
    ...to read that. Or do I? If I pretend Donna Brazile doesn't exist, will she go away?

    [ Parent ]
    we can only hope (none / 0) (#196)
    by bjorn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:37:45 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Donna Brazille (none / 0) (#202)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:40:24 PM EST
    I grew up listening to the Voice of America.  Donna is the new Voice of America: dismissive, lacking in ethics and diplomacy, disregards issues of fairness and seeks power just for winning.  

    [ Parent ]
    If a woman prez wasn't in (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by zfran on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:32:26 PM EST
    the stars for this cycle, I believe we, most of us, women would have accepted it. To be belittled, insulted, told we don't manner, been called names, saddled with inuendos and all the other negativities to which we've been subjected to as if we were still considered "chattel" cuts us to the quick. I for one am tired of being told to keep walking a step behind, or, so what if it's not your turn..from what I hear, Sen. Obama checked with Mrs. Obama for agreement to run this cycle. If she had said no, even tho' he wanted to, does anyone think he would have run anyway???
    To have him run as the new JFK is the past most young people do not know...to run him belittling the politics of the 90's and utilizing the team Bill Clinton put together in the 90's is
    deceiving. This woman is not voting for President this cycle.

    Well, how can they be blamed? (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by Radix on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:34:38 PM EST
    After all, women only make up some 50% of the voting population. With such clearly insignificant representation, amongst the electorate, Obama can afford to lose them. /heavy snark here

    Because there are no facts, there is no truth, Just data to be manipulated

    Don Henley-The Garden of Allah

    Bleh (5.00 / 3) (#224)
    by spit on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:53:29 PM EST
    most of the political blogs have had a longstanding problem with just this kind of BS; they have largely remained the boys' club, and usually have about zero willingness for self-examination on this front. Next will be the charge that those of us who find this sort of thing offensive are simply humorless.

    Because there's nothing wrong with yucking it up over comparing a powerful US senator and former first lady with, why, those typical hysterical clingy ex-girlfriends, of course! And on top of mocking Clinton based on her gender and mocking women based on supposed hysteria, we can also now assume, I suppose, that the Democratic Party has a penis like all normal people should. Ha, so funny!

    Props, BTD, for calling it what it is. Something you've been doing for a long time, if I recall the Larry Summers thing correctly.

    I always taught my children that (5.00 / 2) (#230)
    by zfran on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:58:50 PM EST
    Dems were the party of the people (all the people!) and the Reps were the party of big business. Apparently that's not true anymore. We have become the party of mean and non-inclusive behavior and that is somehow rewarded. We have to decide what kind of nation we want..as women and men. We are now being divided that way (or politics is trying to divide us anyway). It us