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Thursday Night Open Thread

I'm taking a break for Grey's Anatomy. Here's a place to keep the discussion going or start a new one.

Update 10:45 pm: Comments now closed.

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    Glad you should ask (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:04:21 PM EST
    If I was McCain, right now I would be talking with Arnold out in California.  Yes, he cannot run, but I would take his playbook.  I would morph into a centrist Republican a al a Arnold asap.  That would get me lots of big states.  

    That's very interesting (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:07:12 PM EST
    Arnold could be  "Super Surrogate."

    Teh Surrogatanator.

    Parent

    He still is a jerk...but (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:08:35 PM EST
    not as much as the others,  He hired top notch dem policy people.  He has them confused.  

    Parent
    What role (none / 0) (#18)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:13:53 PM EST
    have famous governors/Mayors played in these games before?

    Rendell is a superb surrogate.  Giuliani would play well in Connecticut and Jersy (I guess).

    Romney is an X factor in Amss. He could juxtapose his record and that of Gramholm or Deval Patrick's as he shuttles from Denver to Detriot to Boston.

    Parent

    Fundamentalist sector Latter Day Saints (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:17:58 PM EST
    is under a cloud though.  Did you see this?  That is a lot of kids!

    NYT


    Parent

    yes. I saw it. (none / 0) (#30)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:19:52 PM EST
    Was Romney a compound member?

    Parent
    Now that would be a revelation. (none / 0) (#63)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:27:47 PM EST
    Forget about the sobbing NY state senator, the AG in whatever Midwestern state, confessions, confessions, confessions.  Who cares, already.

    Parent
    Even though FLDS (none / 0) (#39)
    by bjorn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:22:42 PM EST
    are not mainstream Mormons, it does remind everyone that Mormons did come from polygamy.  Imagine the FLDS in the 1850s in Missouri, then onto Utah...and that is where mainstream Mormon church has its roots, in that crazy, cult-like polygamy where men are kings.  Romney would be a terrible pick for McCain, he would hurt him in the South. And with Obama as the dem, they need to worry about the South, maybe it is a stretch, but you would not want to lose votes in the bible belt because of Romney.

    Parent
    HaHaHa (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by RalphB on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:39:07 PM EST
    And with Obama as the dem, they need to worry about the South

    and exactly what part of the South would the GOP worry about?


    Parent

    It's tempting now that Wright has (none / 0) (#62)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:27:37 PM EST
    emerged.

    The GOP are clearly going to mount a theological attackl on TUCC "herecies".  Attacks on Mormons might even allow the Wright issue to keep bobbling around, and have the Dems be accused of bigotry. We have our own church problems now you see.

    The main problem for Romney would of course be the Catholic Church ensuring a heretic is not VP.

    The Baptists won't be that big a problem, not enough hierarchy.

    Parent

    Huffington is working really hard to (none / 0) (#131)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:48:55 PM EST
    make Hagee McCain's pastor.

    Parent
    yeah. (none / 0) (#224)
    by hitchhiker on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:30:14 PM EST
    I keep wondering why they get away with that.  It's so stupid, and yet I hear it all the time.

    Hagee met McCain for breakfast once.  He donated $$ to McCain's campaign.  He introducted McCain at an event in South Carolina.

    The members of the formerly reality-based community make themselves look absurd w/ this transparent horse sh#t.  

    Parent

    The site that shall remain unnamed (none / 0) (#269)
    by AnninCA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:53:50 PM EST
    has published so much garbage gossip that I'd be embarassed to publish there, to be honest.

    Parent
    Republicans are to California (none / 0) (#24)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:17:09 PM EST
    as democrats are to Texas.

    Nowhere else on earth does this kind of thing happen.

    Parent

    I would not go near Arnold if you (none / 0) (#17)
    by bjorn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:13:35 PM EST
    want the female vote.  He got away with murder when he ran for Governor.  He is a sexual harrasser extraordinaire!!

    Parent
    lol (none / 0) (#21)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:14:43 PM EST
    Yes I was living there 1994-2005

    I recall the recall.  Poor old Davis.

    Parent

    Do you think Davis would have (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:20:16 PM EST
    done better with a different first name?

    Parent
    He'd have done better (5.00 / 5) (#68)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:29:01 PM EST
    if he had arrested Ken Lay and got a warrant out for the rest of the Enron board.

    Parent
    good one (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:31:52 PM EST
    All I am saying is Arnold has changed the Republican brand--McCain was probably getting some pointers.  You see, I think the idiotic Bush/Rove coalition collapsed.  Even if the Chris Bowers/Don Brazille party wins, they will collapse.  You cannot run a country with loopy coalitions.  

    Parent
    Ahnold even changed how we pronounce (none / 0) (#103)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:40:10 PM EST
    "California."  One savvy fellow--but of course he is married to a Kennedy.

    Parent
    A 'MSM' Kennedy.... (none / 0) (#333)
    by oldpro on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:05:04 AM EST
    I just saw McCain and Ahnold on CNN today (none / 0) (#4)
    by MarkL on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:05:38 PM EST
    .. was McCain in Cali?

    Parent
    I tell you (none / 0) (#6)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:07:10 PM EST
    Arnold will excuse me can ef the Kennedy's if McCain leans his way and not the psycho way.  I bet with Romney and Arnold they can get the indies and the Clinton dems.  Just you watch.  

    Parent
    I'm wondering how the McCain vs. Obama (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by MarkL on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:04:51 PM EST
    polls are going to move in the next 2 months.
    My feeling about this fall is that the election won't be close. I do agree that Obama is bringing in a new electoral map. He may succeed with it; in my opinion, it's more likely he'll lose horribly.
    Paradoxically, Hillary's best shot at the nomination might be to suspend her campaign and let Obama take all the heat from McCain. We might have a better idea whether he is electable after a couple of months with just the two of them going at it.
    Maybe he will look so hopeless by the end of July that he will be encouraged to drop out.

    Dreamer. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:06:29 PM EST
    AShe could just quietly rack up th emargins and (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:08:45 PM EST
    make sure the SD hold off.

    She should suspend if she thinks she could win.

    Parent

    shouldn't suspend (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:09:48 PM EST
    eek.

    Parent
    Edwards suspended, right? (none / 0) (#12)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:10:46 PM EST
    True. Maybe that is what (none / 0) (#14)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:11:49 PM EST
    he'll announce tomorrow:  I'm baaaack.

    Parent
    Is he speaking tomorrow? (none / 0) (#46)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:24:32 PM EST
    A comment earlier today: (none / 0) (#106)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:40:51 PM EST
    BTD , Edwards is speaking tomorrow morning (none / 0) (#16)
    by DJ on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:50:51 AM PST

    What do you think?  Would his delegates follow his lead?



    Parent
    That was a mistake. (none / 0) (#23)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:15:48 PM EST
    He could very well have emerged with 300-400 delegates.  The balance of power and the ultimate SD.

    Parent
    I don't think that's true (5.00 / 1) (#274)
    by ChuckieTomato on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:58:37 PM EST
    Hillary and Edwards were basically splitting the same vote, other than women. Look at S. Carolina, that's why he won so big in that state. If Edwards had stayed in then Hillary and Edwards both would've split the vote in Cali., Ohio, Penn. and on and on, and both would've lost outright

    Parent
    No One Who Has Won (none / 0) (#11)
    by dugan49 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:09:54 PM EST
    a Presidential nomination will drop out. That will never happen. I don't see the 'Hillary' white vote returning to Obama in the needed numbers. His only chance is to register millions of college kids and African Americans who are not now voters and hope they can make up the difference. This is the direction of the NEW Democratic Party. Good luck, you are going to need it.

    Parent
    Gosh, you know who managed to get them? (5.00 / 4) (#133)
    by madamab on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:49:28 PM EST
    Bill Clinton.

    1992 and 1996.

    Why do you think that was?

    Parent

    Because he understood (none / 0) (#203)
    by mulletov cocktails on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:19:36 PM EST
    that in order to accomplish the ultimate goals of the left, we had to re-claim the center of the country.  It's like an early lesson I learned playing chess--control the middle of the board and you dictate the game.

    Parent
    hahaha. that's funny. (5.00 / 3) (#205)
    by kangeroo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:20:32 PM EST
    gore lost a lot of bill clinton's white vote, and kerry lost even more.  against a republican like mccain, obama will lose even more than that--a hell of a lot more.  he's SCREWED in the GE.

    Parent
    Obama hasn't won the nomination... (5.00 / 1) (#258)
    by p lukasiak on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:47:45 PM EST
    and, in fact, its impossible for him to clinch the nomination with the remaining delegates available.

    So your point is irrelevant.  Obama and his Obots can merely claim the title "presumptive nominee.

    And if after three months of constant battering by the Right Wing Noise Machine, Obama looks like a lock in the "loser" column, he won't be the nominee.  Obots will scream and yell, but professional politicians aren't going to sypport a sure loser if they have a choice -- there's way too many patronage jobs at stake, and Obama could bring the democratic majority in Congress down with him.

    That message will be sent to Obama before the convention, and he will be told that he's not gonna be the nominee, and its up to him whether he allows the party to be torn apart, or whether he graciously concedes to the reality that he can't win in November, and hand the nomination off to someone else.

    It doesn't have to be Clinton -- but unless the GOP holds their fire (which I seriously doubt -- given that that the McCain camp is already calling Obama out on his despicable campaign tactics toward Clinton) Obama is going to be toast by the end of the summer.

    Keep in mind that while everyone has been talking about "white working class" voters, and Obama's lack of appeal to them, there is another MASSIVE demographic that Obama hasn't connected with -- older voters.

    And every time an Obama supporter talks about how he's bringing "new people into the party", old people feel taken for granted -- and as long as McCain panders to them sufficiently, I have the feeling that a whole lot of seniors will wind up voting for McCain.


    Parent

    You must (none / 0) (#156)
    by sas on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:57:16 PM EST
    be kidding

    Clinton's white vote go to Obama?

    Not in PA, W Va,Ohio, Florida....you are kidding aren't you? or delusional?

    been drinking kool aid?

    Parent

    Obama loses the majority of her coalition (none / 0) (#286)
    by AnninCA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:05:44 PM EST
    50% in Indiana said they wouldn't vote for him.  Look at that number.

    That's horrific.

    Seniors.....gone
    Jewish Dems.....gone
    White working class......gone

    And from the looks of what I saw today, a very large portion of the women will be gone.

    It really is that bad.

    Parent

    Add Catholics and Hispanics . . . n/t (none / 0) (#314)
    by nycstray on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:32:36 PM EST
    I'm waiting to see how the Latinos react (none / 0) (#319)
    by AnninCA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:37:33 PM EST
    In CA, that's a very tight coalition.  Very family oriented.  That's why the mayor could deliver to Hillary.  How gramps votes is very often passed right down.  

    However, it's also a very fluid and growing constiuency, too.

    So we'll see.

    Parent

    The Hispanic population here is also tight (none / 0) (#331)
    by nycstray on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:56:28 PM EST
    and family oriented. One of the things I admire about them. Very tight in my 'hood anyway (which is a large group on the South Side (heh). Summer is coming up and on city wide parade days (weekends) for the different Hispanic/Caribbean cultures, it's a major deal.

    When Obama talks "Unity", I look around my 'hood and wonder what he knows about us. I don't see him talking to us (very mixed demographics) when skirting the issues as he does. I'm guessing Rural and Small Town folks are seeing the same . . . along with the other demographics he can't reach.

    Parent

    I should have added (none / 0) (#320)
    by AnninCA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:38:21 PM EST
    that this group is gaining true political power, but it's rooted in the Dem party.

    That's the bind they will be in.

    Parent

    My head blew up over at Open Left today (5.00 / 12) (#13)
    by lisadawn82 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:11:18 PM EST
    Everyone really needs to see this piece of work that Chris Bowers wrote.  Here is just a small piece from Chris.
    http://tinyurl.com/6gdgyk

    Cultural Shift: Out with Bubbas, up with Creatives: There should be a major cultural shift in the party, where the southern Dems and Liebercrat elite will be largely replaced by rising creative class types. Obama has all the markers of a creative class background, from his community organizing, to his Unitarianism, to being an academic, to living in Hyde Park to shopping at Whole Foods and drinking PBR. These will be the type of people running the Democratic Party now, and it will be a big cultural shift from the white working class focus of earlier decades. Given the demographics of the blogosphere, in all likelihood, this is a socioeconomic and cultural demographic into which you fit. Culturally, the Democratic Party will feel pretty normal to netroots types. It will consistently send out cultural signals designed to appeal primarily to the creative class instead of rich donors and the white working class.

    Yep, throwing the working class overboard.  What a great campaign strategy.  

    WTF  Just what makes you a Dem then if you aren't working for the working class.  [banging head on table]

    Our collective heads were blowing (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:14:05 PM EST
    at once.  

    Parent
    That was just ridiculous..... (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:14:37 PM EST
    ...and for any of the Obama posters here who bristle at being called Creative Class, please note....we weren't the ones who made up that label.

    Parent
    Yep! (5.00 / 1) (#234)
    by lambert on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:35:11 PM EST
    Creative class entirely self-identified.

    Heck, would someone like me be creative enough to invent a phrase like that?

    And now, apparently, the label is a problem when others use it. Guess they should have trademarked it...  Haw.

    Parent

    your fired (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by DandyTIger on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:15:47 PM EST
    if you care about working class or you are working class. You are no longer welcome in the (new) democratic party. Thanks for your services, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    Parent
    Working class is out. (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:19:10 PM EST
    Lets ask about the permanent underclass, you know the people that are not employable, what we used to call the Lumpen.  Remember those guys, that class is growing daily.  No one talks about them.  I guess they are sharing some room under the bus.  

    Parent
    That's where the American standard (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:21:16 PM EST
    of living is collapsing.

    It's not gently lowing for everyone all at the same time and evenly among the classes.

    Parent

    working poor (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by DandyTIger on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:25:05 PM EST
    Is all I hear even from dems. No one talks about the poor that aren't working. Sad. I think  you're right, they're all under that bus. But I'm sure "the one" will save them all. snark.

    Parent
    and Latinos apparently (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by bigbay on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:34:29 PM EST
    .. who will make up 20% of the population within 10 years.

    Parent
    No candidate talks about anyone (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:21:29 PM EST
    who isn't middle income or above.  

    Parent
    Isn't "class" (5.00 / 6) (#72)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:30:09 PM EST
    kind of self-reported?  I mean, if someone asked you what "class" you belonged to, would you say, "Oh, I'm lower class," or "I'm part of the uneducated, low-information class that has its head up its a*s!"  The biggest problem I have with this quoted article, other than the stupidity, is when did it become a bad thing to be from the blue collar class?  Do you know how much a plumber makes?  Mine has a beach house.  

    I'd wager a good bit of money that a lot of these guys--and they are all guys, aren't they?--come from very blue collar backgrounds, or have it in their immediate family.  Smacks of Bill Ayers fighting the "man" while his papa is a wealthy energy CEO.  And now, we have Ayers fighting the "man" from his million dollar neighborhood with his bourgeoise university job.  What a joke.

    You despise what you fear, and these guys fear the working class the way only a certain type of weak man can fear a stronger man.  "My big brains mean you should worship me!"  That's the only reason they look down their garlic noses at the core dems.  They despise them, yet they want their respect.  They demand their respect.  They will do anything for this respect--except earn it.

    In short, they think they're Snowball, but they're really Napoleon...

    (five bucks to the first TLer who gets the reference!)

    Parent

    Animal Farm n/t (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by angie on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:36:02 PM EST
    Kathy, I think it's the opposite... (5.00 / 5) (#117)
    by lookoverthere on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:44:37 PM EST
    people who are ashamed of growing up in suburbia. Children of privilege, like Ayers, but without deep wealth. Bright, but not fantastically so. Privileged, definitely.

    Yes, they despise what they fear and what they fear are people who know how to do stuff. Real stuff. Weld. Build. Care for someone ill or dying.

    They doubt their own capacity to build or fix anything. So must hate anyone who can.


    Parent

    please note (5.00 / 4) (#151)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:55:56 PM EST
    that we were responding to the quoted bit.  I think the "bubba" comment should outrage you just as much as us.  It is that sort of elitist, divisive rhetoric that alienates us all.

    Parent
    If you've never heard something (5.00 / 4) (#154)
    by madamab on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:56:46 PM EST
    as divisive and hateful as that, you must never in your life have visited Daily Kos, TPM or AmericaBlog.

    Parent
    madamab....don't forget HuffPost (5.00 / 1) (#317)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:36:02 PM EST
    Are you referencing (none / 0) (#210)
    by kmblue on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:24:06 PM EST
    "Class warfare", darling?

    and wasn't it Warren Buffet who said:

    "You're damn right there's class
    warfare in this country, and my class
    is winning!"


    Parent

    pigs in the movie... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:33:42 PM EST
    D'oh! (none / 0) (#98)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:38:09 PM EST
    I almost said, "everybody but Stellaaaa!"

    Oh, well, I'll give you that five bucks when I stay in that mountain cabin you were talking about.

    Parent

    Angie wins (none / 0) (#109)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:42:05 PM EST
    it was the book first..sorry...!! i hand over the 5 bucks.

    Parent
    Thank you (none / 0) (#119)
    by angie on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:45:08 PM EST
    I'll keep in on account. ;-)

    Parent
    I'm good for it (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:56:34 PM EST
    at least as far as you know!

    Parent
    Animal Farm. (none / 0) (#229)
    by magisterludi on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:31:36 PM EST
    day late & a dollar short n/t (none / 0) (#233)
    by angie on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:34:44 PM EST
    well (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by sas on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:03:10 PM EST
    now the middle aged college educated white woman is not welcome either....well now neither are the seniors....and neither are the Latinos....and don't expect that the clingy small town types are welcome either...own a gun?  not for you either...how about a Bible?  ever read that?  oops, sorry, not for you either...gay?  well, we don't even acknowledge you...black?  well you are in this time because the candidate is mixed white/black...etc

    Parent
    The whole discussion about class (5.00 / 4) (#178)
    by shoephone on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:08:48 PM EST
    has me riled up. I have a foot in both worlds. Grew up in relative wealth, went to the Univ. of California, decided not to go to law school and went to music school instead. In the ensuing years I've stayed very active in politics and served with distinction on the board of a highly regarded non-profit org, all while working as a waitress, cook, caterer, musician, and running my own painting business -- what I would call the blue collar jobs. I'm proud of the things I've done. I'm not highly degreed and I don't make a lot of money. I consider myself an American liberal. The Obama crowd is trying to create a new upper class ("unity"? not much) and throw working people -- the heart and soul of America -- over a cliff. He and they are BAD for the Democratic brand. They do not represent me, my values or my vision for this country.

    Ironically, I worked for fourteen years in the espresso biz and would smack the first person who referred to me as a "latte liberal".

    Parent

    Ditto (5.00 / 1) (#282)
    by AnninCA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:02:18 PM EST
    I put myself through school working as a waitress.  Everytime I saw someone post something smug about how Obama attracts a "better" voter, my bloodpressure went up a bit.  

    I frankly resigned from the Democratic party over this issue.  I simply don't think it's offering me a party that reflects my values anymore.

    They can have the 'new' coalition.      

    Parent

    The "Democratic" Party (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:17:40 PM EST
    Now with lowered Demos!

    Parent
    This was posted earlier ... (5.00 / 5) (#43)
    by Robot Porter on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:23:32 PM EST
    and it still reads like satire.

    Sadly, it isn't.

    But he should have added that Dems will then change their names to the Elitist Party.

    Parent

    or party of five (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by bjorn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:25:24 PM EST
    That is about all they will have if they go that route.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#86)
    by Leisa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:34:50 PM EST
    I responded to this earlier as well... I used that as well...  There goes the GE if this is allowed to continue.

    Parent
    here was my post about that (5.00 / 4) (#138)
    by Leisa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:50:47 PM EST
    I have this elitism blather before.  Yes, they will "rise up" because they think their ideas are superior to the Average American (also known as ones not voting for Obama.  This includes bubba, you , me, Hispanics, Jews, Asians, elderly, 10 -15% of the AA community, many GLBT and very attractive males... and the uneducated).

    The whole idea of "creative class" reeks of self aggrandizement and separation, hence, elitism.

    What concerns me about these ideas is that it makes it easier for someone to justify doing something unethical/illegal/immoral because they think that they "know more" or better than the person/people they are doing it to.  

    Many horrific things can happen when a group of people get together with that mindset.  Never underestimate the corruption a "good education" can buy you.  


    Parent

    They are plutocrats, (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by madamab on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:54:13 PM EST
    not Democrats.

    They can go jump off a bridge as far as I'm concerned.

    They disgust me.

    Parent

    Well, madamab (5.00 / 1) (#228)
    by kmblue on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:31:32 PM EST
    I finally have my answer as to why
    Obama is not connecting with more voters.

    It's because they suspect (correctly)
    he looks down on them.

    As do Obama's followers.

    We see it all the time here at Talk Left.
    They come here in droves to tell us how stupid we are, and how we just don't "get" Obama.

    Parent

    Purely Bush Era (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:10:41 PM EST
    Morality and analytical ability - They write their own rules, etc.  

    Sorry, but the last 2 days of cable news coverage parroting as fact that Obama is the holy, pure answer to all our prayers who is above politics and is the total innocent who has to put up with the selfish woman who won't leave the primary, and its refusal to even mention that Obama is losing ground with numerous constituencies or that the win in Indiana was even a mild achievement has truly gotten to me.

    Parent

    i am honestly thinking this is the time for a (5.00 / 1) (#265)
    by hellothere on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:51:23 PM EST
    3rd party. i remember when perot was running and the movement that came out of that.

    Parent
    wondering if AA (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:27:28 PM EST
    voters knew that this is what they signed up for.  Sort of bizarre.  

    Parent
    Especially if they insist on...... (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:27:29 PM EST
    ...going to the same schools as their children.

    Parent
    Missed that one. (none / 0) (#145)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:52:45 PM EST
    Excuse me... (5.00 / 6) (#64)
    by Upstart Crow on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:27:56 PM EST
    I'm a orofessional writer. I am older than Obama, and on any given day I am more "creative" than Obama is on his best day.  I am deeply offended by this man.  I suspect a lot of "creative" people agree with me.

    Parent
    Professional Artist here (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by nycstray on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:51:17 PM EST
    deeply offended by "The Creative Class" and I find Obama an insult to my intelligence.

    heh, I can no longer call myself a creative professional.

    Parent

    That's Because You Aren't Defining Creative Class (5.00 / 8) (#305)
    by BDB on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:22:41 PM EST
    the way Bowers does.  Creative Class in his mind, from what I can tell, translates roughly into White Boy Bloggers.  Notice how he talks about how comfortable the netroots will be in the new Democratic party.  I guarantee you he isn't referring to Jeralyn or even Jane Hamsher.  He means his Boiz.

    This is about white boys trying to storm the castle before all the women and latin@s beat them to it.  I don't think it's a coincidence that as women are improving their ability to organize politically and latin@s are starting to learn how to flex their political muscle that suddenly the "creative class" (read White Boy Bloggers) feel the need to join a movement with African Americans to remake the party in their image

    And it's no coincidence that their ire is focused on white working class people.  Who do you think an out of work steelworker has more in common with in terms of what they need the Government to do for them - a latino construction worker or Chris Bowers.  A white nurse working the night shift in a hospital  or Matt Stoller?  

    They don't want everyone to crash the gates.  They want to sneak in and then lock them back again.

    This is not unique, btw.  Why do you think after Washington voters passed a referendum requiring the parties to hold a primary that the state democratic party insisted on still paying for a caucus.  The better for the elites and activists to keep their power.  As I've said, the elites have always been for the elite.

    Parent

    Brilliant post (5.00 / 2) (#313)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:32:29 PM EST
    Post of the week, I say the month.  

    Parent
    Agree (5.00 / 1) (#316)
    by AnninCA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:35:40 PM EST
    but I worked as a writer within business.  Hence, I have an eye for that stuff.

    This elitist approach never works.  LOL*  Why?  The customers get fed up.

    I can absolutely guarantee that the blog-world that will "take off" will not be the ones like the site that "shall remain unnamed."

    It's too confining.

    It will be sites like this one.  I hope they are ready for the expansion.  :)

    Parent

    Jeralyn may have to give up (5.00 / 1) (#322)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:41:06 PM EST
    her day job.

    Parent
    Totally agree with you (5.00 / 3) (#325)
    by nycstray on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:45:14 PM EST
    It just really pisses me off. How dare they take "creative class" when they are nothing of the sort.  Net Nerd Boy Class would be way more fitting IMNSHO.

    They've sullied "creative" beyond what's decent. And yes, I know, I'm taking it a tad personally ;) But in reality, they are causing way too much damage. My hope is that we will become a more multi-party system because of these a-holes. I'll take a resurgence of the National Woman's Party for starters. Or maybe a National Women and Workers Party. Or perhaps, The Under The Bus Party . . .

    Parent

    I don't take offense (5.00 / 2) (#329)
    by AnninCA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:49:35 PM EST
    but then, I admit, I'm fairly pragmatic.

    I read all the bloggers on one site for months.  Most of them are not even particularly good writers, nevermind thinkers.

    (There's a distinction to me.  I can enjoy a badly thought out piece if it's clever...lol*)

    A lot of junk, in other words.  With a gem now and then.  (even on the other side)

    Most of it is National Enquirer trash stuff.

    eeks......I'm a snob, aren't I?

    I have to have one or the other, frankly.  Either write well enough to gain my "skill" respect eye, even if I disagree, or think straight.

    Right now, it's the biggest thing going and is an outlet.

    Not for long.

    Parent

    Don't feel bad I went to a land-grant university (none / 0) (#221)
    by ChuckieTomato on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:29:18 PM EST
    I wasn't creative enough for anything else

    Parent
    Uh... (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:29:27 PM EST
    I have a PhD...and I can't afford to buy my groceries at the local Whole Foods. It's too bloody expensive.

    Parent
    Oh... (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:30:02 PM EST
    and I'm working on a novel.

    Parent
    Can anyone? (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:01:04 PM EST
    My Crohn's friend said her gluten free bread at Whole Foods costs $9.00/loaf -- and that was before the huge inflation hit.

    Parent
    That's why some of us refer to it as (5.00 / 2) (#186)
    by shoephone on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:11:39 PM EST
    "Whole Paycheck".

    Parent
    cripes... (none / 0) (#214)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:25:27 PM EST
    that's expensive.

    Parent
    no actually it doesn't. (none / 0) (#270)
    by hellothere on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:54:11 PM EST
    i was told i might be gluten intolerant and was waiting for results of my blood test. i went to whole foods not long ago and bought a loafto try it for taste. i didn't pay near that much. now i think it is going up, so who knows. of course, i found out i'm not, thank goodness.

    Parent
    That's ... horrible. If the Democratic party is (5.00 / 5) (#84)
    by tigercourse on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:34:23 PM EST
    going to become the party of Whole food shopping hipsters, we'll only win elections on about 20 blocks in the entire country.

    Parent
    Ugh. Just offensive. (5.00 / 5) (#124)
    by daria g on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:46:40 PM EST
    Nice of him to dismiss a whole lot of diverse people in an entire region of the country as all "Bubbas" while he's at it.  What a joke.  There's no Red America or Blue America, there's only the United States of America, but - oh by the way, f*** those guys, they don't count.

    Parent
    Tonight, my AA radio guy (5.00 / 2) (#273)
    by AnninCA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:58:16 PM EST
    who is a conservative was doing the entire show on Brazile's comments.

    Boy, was he blistering the Democrats for being ridiculous.  One thing that's nice about listening to the conservatives, they have no problem in pointing out the obvious.  As he said, Wright was the elephant in the room during that discussion with Brazile, and she was acting like it "just wasn't so."

    Denial.....it's like watching them vote for the war.  Group denial....

    Parent

    Wright (5.00 / 0) (#294)
    by daria g on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:12:33 PM EST
    There seems to be a real disconnect - an inability to recognize and respond to the fact that lots of people genuinely were shocked and offended by his comments, and did not understand how someone could stay there and listen to him for many years.  I don't feel that way about it - I believe Obama was there for community participation and making connections - but it's as if it is entirely verboten to observe that many people do have a big problem and it hasn't gone away and has to be resolved somehow or we're doomed in November.  Assuming we want to elect him.

    It's funny, I sensed a disconnect in 2004 with Kerry that was different in superficial ways, but perhaps got to the same deep rooted values, patriotism, honor, what is acceptable and not acceptable for the commander in chief.  I don't think the Swift Vets would've damaged him like they did if he hadn't tried to present himself as both war hero and war protester.  The two just don't coexist in any narrative we're familiar with, I like that and value that, but it opened the door to further attacks on his credibility as commander in chief.  They were lies but the opening was there to push those lies.  

    Hillary wasn't wrong in that there's a threshold. Perhaps not until 9/11 but now, I think there definitely is.  I'm being theoretical, but there are things that are not done, and things that disqualify you.. and I think Obama's plan for the fall would be to disqualify McCain, as senile and/or crazy. But if Wright, Ayers, other connections disqualify Obama in the minds of many, I don't know how that plays out.. it would get really ugly.

    Parent

    well didn't you just write the GOP advert... (none / 0) (#164)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:01:20 PM EST
    ...remember this 2004 speech?

    There are no blue states no red states just the united states...

    scccreeeeaaaachhhh....

    Gaddamn America! bitter people who cling!  We don't need the working class [fill in the blanks] we don't want michigan to count. Teh US of KKKa.

    we worship an awsome God in the Blue states!

    The US government invented AIDS! Jesus was a black man who fought the garlic noses.  

    Let that Hindenburg soar!

    Parent

    I'm sure the GOP already thought of it.. (none / 0) (#177)
    by daria g on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:08:48 PM EST
    But.. let 'em, I think we need to give people a better reason to vote Dem than rhetorical hot air balloons.

    Parent
    i thought (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Jeralyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:53:14 PM EST
    it was a spoof. He can't be serious.

    Parent
    BooMan doesn't think it's a parody (5.00 / 3) (#266)
    by lambert on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:52:23 PM EST
    Here.

    Or says he doesn't. So, if it is, Stoller, Lux, Bowers, and Booman are all in it.

    All the commenters seem to be taking it seriously -- no nudge, nudge, wink wink.

    Of course, we could be in "Murder on the Orient Express" mode, here..

    Parent

    I left a heated reply to the diary (none / 0) (#183)
    by lisadawn82 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:10:24 PM EST
    And some gentleman asked me " Where was the negative tone in Chris' post?"  They are really scary delusional.

    Parent
    You're Very Kind (none / 0) (#235)
    by santarita on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:36:39 PM EST
    I read that piece and thought that he might have written it after having had one too many beers at the local pub.  If this is representative thinking of the new Democratic Party, I think it's time to form a new Party.

    Parent
    How many "creatives" can there be? (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by datadriven on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:10:18 PM EST
    This is the typical sloppy analysis one expects from someone like Bowers. Here we have class defined by what one consumes rather than by someone's position in the production process. Someone from almost any class position can walk around with a Whole Foods bag, but class would depend on whether one exercises discretionary authority in the workplace.  

    Oddly, when I was an academic I felt pretty close to the common man as I had so little cha-ching coming in. I had the opportunity to rebuild the engine and weld in new frame rails on my 1970 Mustang with the help of the steelworker next door; I put a new roof on the garage; and was a union delegate (UUP). I never really felt that I was somehow superior than the people who were sitting in my classes-- and New York State really didn't treat its faculty as if they were better.

    Was I a member of the creative class? Well, no PBR no creativity... I can't see how the Dems can replace 15.7 million union members with "creatives". Ugh!

     

    Parent

    Query on Class (none / 0) (#197)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:17:24 PM EST
    Does class have two components in the Engels/Marx theory -- the first being position in the production process and the second being the more subjective -- how we view ourselves?

    Parent
    Try this website (none / 0) (#253)
    by ChuckieTomato on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:47:04 PM EST
    Several studies have been done (none / 0) (#311)
    by miriam on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:31:33 PM EST
    that indicate less than 3% of any given population group can be classified as "creative," meaning highly original thinkers.  While they are often artistic or literary or musical, they are also often scientists and engineers, but can be of occupations like carpenter as well.  Three percent.   So that's one very small party Bowers is forming.

    Parent
    Wow just wow (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by Step Beyond on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:19:13 PM EST
    Other than the part you quoted I thought this was...er....interesting:

    We will see lots of emphasis on non-partisanship, ethics reform, election reform instead of on, say, placating labor unions, environment groups, and the LGBT community by throwing each of these groups a policy bone or two. Now, the focus will be on broad, squishy fixes that are designed to appeal to several groups at once.

    Thankfully Chris Bowers doesn't actually get to define the Democratic party.

    Parent

    broad, squishy fixes? (5.00 / 1) (#246)
    by lambert on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:41:31 PM EST
    The mind reels.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#209)
    by lisadawn82 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:23:39 PM EST
    The throwing the bone part really ticked me off.  But the word PLACATING really tipped me off as to how he really feels about the rest of us.  

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#231)
    by Steve M on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:32:54 PM EST
    to be fair, what he's saying there is a criticism of the current state of politics.  In other words, he's saying the current version of the Democratic Party governs by placating and throwing bones to various interest groups in turn, and that Obama stands for something better than that.  Before you ask, your guess is as good as mine.

    I don't believe he is, at all, saying he thinks we ought to "throw a bone" to the Democratic interest groups.

    Parent

    Who knows (none / 0) (#242)
    by Step Beyond on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:39:23 PM EST
    It reads to me like he's saying that those groups will just like the other things we do so much we won't have to do things just for them, aka throw a bone to placate them.

    And frankly someone who has been a part of disenfranchising millions of Dem voters, being thought of as a leader of election reform does not go over well with this disenfranchised voter.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#254)
    by Steve M on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:47:04 PM EST
    in a sense that's true.  But I don't know if it's offensive to say that we'll like the new reforms more than we'd like being thrown a bone.  It really depends what those new reforms are.

    Parent
    IMHO (5.00 / 1) (#275)
    by Step Beyond on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:58:40 PM EST
    It's not offensive to me because we may like the new offerings, it's offensive to me because the issues that are important to labor unions, environmental groups and LGBT community should be important to us all. They aren't special interests to me. I don't need to be gay to know that they deserve the same right to have horrible marriages that the rest of us are able to have. :D

    We need an emphasis on them because they've been ignored and pushed aside for so long. It isn't placating them, it's doing the right thing.

    Between that and the VoteVets thing, I wish I didn't read this thread and had remained blissfully ignorant.


    Parent

    Me too (none / 0) (#232)
    by Step Beyond on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:34:34 PM EST
    Reading the comments has me wondering what they think they see in Obama that makes them think he is so different than every other politician? And I don't mean that as an insult to Obama at all. But what are they basing these wild ideas on?

    Parent
    I was going to post this also (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by MichaelGale on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:19:34 PM EST
    I could not believe it.  I am going to send this to the DNC and the Pittsburgh Tribune.

    Please....someone explain this to me.  Is this how they really feel?

    BTW...how old is this guy?

    Parent

    Stoller in HuffPo is good, too (5.00 / 1) (#237)
    by lambert on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:37:59 PM EST
    http://www.correntewire.com/your_band_sucks

    As Neal Stephensen writes:

    'Would you like to stay and have a drink? We've got Kool-Aid."

    "I'd love to, but my diabetes is acting up real bad."

    It's always nice to have a "graceful" way out of these situations.

    Parent

    Stephenson rocks... (none / 0) (#252)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:46:06 PM EST
    Matt seems to (none / 0) (#279)
    by cawaltz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:00:01 PM EST
    think the Democratic Party has been remade? Oh and that the GOP is in disarray and McCain is a weak candidate? Someone might want to wake him. It appears he's dreaming.

    Matt, honey, OUR party is in disarray(about one third of one candidates supporters won't vote for the other in the GE and we now officially have a 48 state strategy). That WEAK candidate kicks your candidate's butt in the electoral matchups to date. I'd hold off on uncorking the champagne for the new improved Democratic Party.

    Parent

    I am dumbfounded (5.00 / 1) (#240)
    by ramasan on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:38:07 PM EST
    All of these superior CC people are well educated and where they are because they are the products of our once thriving middle class.  Like one generation ago, correct? How quickly we forget.

    Parent
    Geez (5.00 / 4) (#243)
    by cawaltz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:39:32 PM EST
    Between Bowers and Brazile they seem to think they have November all sewn up. I wish them lots of luck. Even though I have a computer and I am not low information, I lack the pedigree of the creative class because while he was out getting a degree I was out earning a living by defending my country. I don't have Whole Foods within a 50 mile radius. After I left the military I worked at a hospital and Kroger while my husand went to school. I am a solid woking class individual(at times I worked two jobs to ensur my family wouldn't fall behind). I AM proud to say I am working class. I believe I, and others like me, are the backbone of this country.

    Don't worry Chris. I won't sully your party with my hands that are dirtied up with the soils of good, honest hard work. You go right on and create your coalition. I'm sure that there will be someone who will jump at the opportunity to appeal to people with a strong work ethic.

    Parent

    This Isn't About November (5.00 / 3) (#291)
    by BDB on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:11:54 PM EST
    It's about taking control of the party apparatus.  You wait, Obama could lose 48 states and they'll still try to take over the party.   That's what they care about.  

    Parent
    Party apparatus (none / 0) (#328)
    by cawaltz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:47:12 PM EST
     o they even have a clue on what to do with it once they get it? From the tone of this narrative, I'd gather not. The purpose of the party's apparatus is to create a WINNING coalition. The education of the average American is 13 years(which means the bulk of us don't have a degree). You can't win without the working class. Even the Republicans are smart enough to recognize that.

    Parent
    I was wondering when the "Unitarianism" (none / 0) (#15)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:13:11 PM EST
    would surface.  Probably about as acceptable to the traditional Dem. voter as Trinity UCC.  

    Parent
    Unitarianism (none / 0) (#42)
    by madamab on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:23:31 PM EST
    is actually quite a nice and lovely religion.

    But TUCC is not Unitarian.

    Parent

    I think it's a reference to ... (5.00 / 11) (#73)
    by Robot Porter on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:30:19 PM EST
    the fact that his mother (grandparents?) were Unitarians.

    Remember, people like Bowers view Obama very selectively.  Obama's TUCC membership isn't real to them.  They see Obama as a version of them.

    They really think Obama is a privileged, middle-class white blogger.

    And I'm only kinda joking.

    Parent

    I don't believe (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by madamab on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:32:50 PM EST
    you're kidding at all.

    To call them narrow-minded, smug, elitist fools is too kind.

    Parent

    creepy because it rings true (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by bjorn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:33:46 PM EST
    So true. But, Trinity UCC isn't representative (none / 0) (#110)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:42:06 PM EST
    of UCC either.

    Parent
    No it isn't. (none / 0) (#116)
    by madamab on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:44:25 PM EST
    I've sung at a UCC church several times. It is quite open-minded.

    Parent
    On Unitarians (none / 0) (#89)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:35:34 PM EST
    My ex mother in law, god rest her soul, old Boston Democrat, really lefty, used to have a great line about Unitarians:  "Can't trust a religion without sin or he*l.  

    Parent
    Oh there's a h*ll... (5.00 / 2) (#249)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:44:02 PM EST
    My understanding after a couple forays into the Unitarian realm is that it looks a lot like being a voiceless body of rational thought in a meeting of the Kansas Board of Ed...and there are no exits.

    Parent
    On C Bowers' comments... (none / 0) (#194)
    by christinep on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:15:27 PM EST
    What a nightmare! Unfortunately, from some comments I've seen about those who think they are the Creative Class (i.e., above everyone else and superior), this fever may take awhile to break.  Meantime, while the Creatiive Class writhes in the throes of all the theoretically cool things they can accomplish in the galaxy, a lot of working class stiffs will continue to hurt. And, here I thought it was just the periodic generational schism.

    Parent
    Wow. This vision of the new Roolerz of the Dems (none / 0) (#213)
    by Ellie on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:24:28 PM EST
    ... makes me feel so fantastic for not being on the ground floor of this massive Ponzi Wank, it almost makes me want to start donating to the party again.

    Parent
    LOL, ponzi wank! (5.00 / 2) (#277)
    by lambert on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:59:47 PM EST
    Don't worry, we can all make a living "creating" marketing collateral for Obama. I hear the Fellows need armbands....

    Parent
    Armbands to go with their Brown Shirts? (5.00 / 1) (#299)
    by RalphB on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:16:43 PM EST
    Only problem they would have is if they went in the streets to oppress people, those people would kick their as-es.


    Parent
    unitarian? i used to be a unitarian. (none / 0) (#260)
    by hellothere on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:49:14 PM EST
    obama was a member of trinity for 20+ years. that is a radiacal difference(black liberation theology). it doesn't not translate at all.

    i was reading on no quarter that a member of obama's team is from trinity is a strong support of reparations. now that should make the general very interesting.


    Parent

    He can back up his claim he is a Christian (none / 0) (#272)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:57:39 PM EST
    by staying a member of Trinity UCC.  His cred. on that score might slip if he joined a Unitarian church, although I realize there is no strict creed and people from many religious backgrounds do become Unitarians.

    Parent
    that's true. i remember it fondly. (none / 0) (#284)
    by hellothere on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:05:14 PM EST
    they are lovely gentle people. i learned a lot while i was there. in fact i was thinking the other day of going back. with all that is going on the sanity there would be helpful.

    Parent
    On a lighter note (5.00 / 23) (#32)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:20:33 PM EST
    I was admitted to a major northeastern Law School today that I had been waiting to hear from. I am very excited, naturally.

    Wow...congrats... (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:21:20 PM EST
    Bottle of champagne for everyone.  Bravo.  

    Parent
    congratulations!!!! (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:22:08 PM EST
    Please run the law review (5.00 / 5) (#40)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:23:02 PM EST
    and we will all support you in your run for President.  

    Parent
    Even if he works as a comm. organizer? (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:25:02 PM EST
    heh, thanks (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:25:12 PM EST
    I think I won't be running for President. . .ever.

    Parent
    And no, it's not THAT one (or that one. . .) (none / 0) (#55)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:25:39 PM EST
    Whichever one it is (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by shoephone on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:15:18 PM EST
    they are lucky to have you. Congrats.

    Parent
    isn't that what they all say? (none / 0) (#245)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:40:31 PM EST
    Good for you and congratulations. (5.00 / 5) (#44)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:24:09 PM EST
    I predict you will be a superstar, and, as you may know, according to Wiki, lawyers were a latter-day admission into the "creative class."  

    Parent
    I'm happy for you (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by Coldblue on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:24:37 PM EST
    ...really.

    Parent
    Great News (5.00 / 4) (#52)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:25:17 PM EST
    I am really excited for you.

    Parent
    Hurray! (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by eleanora on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:25:45 PM EST
    What a major accomplishment, andgarden. You must be so proud. Best news I've heard all day :D

    Parent
    congrats (5.00 / 6) (#59)
    by bjorn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:27:12 PM EST
    they are lucky to get you. I am always looking for your posts.  You will be a great lawyer!

    Parent
    Congrats (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by squeaky on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:30:26 PM EST
    Although I am not surprised. I would imagine that you could go wherever you wanted.

    Parent
    You might be surprised. (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:35:43 PM EST
    The process is so damn competitive. . .

    Parent
    wait a minute, Andgarden (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:32:17 PM EST
    You're twelve?

    Parent
    heh, off by almost half: 22 (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:35:09 PM EST
    I used to like you. (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:37:16 PM EST
    Don't worry (5.00 / 4) (#108)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:41:49 PM EST
    I find the Creative Class just as repulsive as you do. ;-)

    Parent
    Bravo.. (5.00 / 4) (#120)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:45:10 PM EST
    I call them the meritocrats.  They want to preserve all privileges for their class and their children.
    My daughter 23 and son 21, share your feelings.  

    Parent
    aw, man, (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:46:56 PM EST
    I am totally creative class.  You can tell because I don't have to go around reminding people of it every six seconds of my life.

    I can't believe you're only twelve.

    Parent

    Congrats & May I Ask (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:02:33 PM EST
    I'm another lawyer.....

    May I be so revealing of my own ignorance as to ask what exactly "Creative Class" means?  

    Thanks.

    Parent

    Chris Bowers is desperately trying to invent (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by chancellor on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:07:28 PM EST
    a new description that will be attributed to him by future generations of Democrats. In fact, the actual translation of "creative class" is yuppie.

    Parent
    Yuppies with pretentions (none / 0) (#188)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:12:00 PM EST
    to social change.

    Parent
    Ask Chris Bowers (none / 0) (#174)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:07:02 PM EST
    I think it's essentially code for young, white, and liberal, with no particular special social needs.

    Think young Republicans, but Democrats with far more meager salaries. At least, that's how I understand the term. You'll have to ask Chris Bowers, though. I'm sure he can give you a 30 page explanation.  

    Parent

    Wiki has a definition but (none / 0) (#216)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:26:04 PM EST
    who knows if it is "authorized."

    Parent
    Congrats, andgarden! (5.00 / 5) (#134)
    by Anne on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:49:35 PM EST
    Can't believe you're only 22, though - you are wise beyond your years.

    Parent
    Congratulations (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by RalphB on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:33:00 PM EST
    and all the best!  Your poll analyses are always great.


    Parent
    Hoping immersion in law school (none / 0) (#157)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:57:50 PM EST
    won't relegate us to the likes of Zogby, heavens forfend.

    Parent
    Obviously if I'm not here. . . (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:59:34 PM EST
    I'll be <s>partying</s> Studying.

    Parent
    I figure you can coast 'til the bar exam. (none / 0) (#169)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:03:28 PM EST
    Woohoo! (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by madamab on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:34:11 PM EST
    Congratulations!

    Parent
    Congrats! (5.00 / 5) (#88)
    by Steve M on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:35:21 PM EST
    I went to law school so long ago that it was still possible to graduate with only five digits of debt.

    Parent
    uh, yeah (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:40:34 PM EST
    It's an expensive school in an expensive city.

    I could make up a blah, blah, justification, but I come from a family of overeducated people--everyone has a postgraduate degree. I'm not going to break the trend!

    Parent

    Hmm (none / 0) (#129)
    by Steve M on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:48:30 PM EST
    I wonder if it is XXX Law School.

    Parent
    I could give you more hints (none / 0) (#140)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:51:08 PM EST
    but eventually you'd figure it out.

    Parent
    I'm just worried (5.00 / 3) (#149)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:54:34 PM EST
    the FBI is going to bust down my door any minute for having internet congress with a minor.

    Parent
    Be nice! (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:57:59 PM EST
    Congrats, (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by kmblue on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:18:50 PM EST
    andgarden!

    Parent
    be nice? (none / 0) (#251)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:45:17 PM EST
    (sniff) you don't know me at all!

    Parent
    congratulations! (5.00 / 3) (#115)
    by proudliberaldem on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:44:13 PM EST
    Congratulations! (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by Nadai on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:45:03 PM EST
    Congratulations! (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by Leisa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:47:43 PM EST
    Good luck with your endeavors.

    How did you decide to study law?

    Parent

    It's kinda the family business (5.00 / 3) (#143)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:52:14 PM EST
    Plus, I'm all about civil rights.

    Parent
    Good luck with your career (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:47:46 PM EST
    TalkLeft is full of lawyers!

    Parent
    Excellent News! (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by Jeralyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:03:56 PM EST
    Congratulations, andgarden. You will make a great lawyer. I hope you email me and tell me which school and city.

    Parent
    Thanks so much (none / 0) (#179)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:09:20 PM EST
    Of course I will share the news.

    Parent
    Congratulations, andgarden (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by chancellor on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:12:57 PM EST
    Use that degree to do some good for people.

    Parent
    Enjoy the interlude before the studying... (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by christinep on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:17:38 PM EST
    Escellent. And, much, much good fortune to you.

    Parent
    Congrats! (5.00 / 1) (#211)
    by santarita on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:24:20 PM EST
    And enjoy your summer because there is hard work ahead.

    Parent
    That's what they tell me. . . (none / 0) (#218)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:28:15 PM EST
    Congrats... (5.00 / 1) (#217)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:26:23 PM EST
    Did you get that paper done?

    Parent
    Indeed, thanks (none / 0) (#225)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:30:18 PM EST
    I have no more papers left for my entire college career, which now consists of one exam--in a math class.

    Parent
    Nice work, Andgarden. (none / 0) (#247)
    by Edger on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:42:28 PM EST
    Congratulations on being admitted to the school you wanted. What are your plans for a future practice area? Playing it by ear, or have you made a choice?

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#250)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:44:43 PM EST
    I know I'm not supposed to answer this way, but I just don't know yet.

    Parent
    Correct answer is: job offer in an (5.00 / 1) (#255)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:47:14 PM EST
    area where you would prefer to live.

    Parent
    I think you're supposed to answer any way you want (5.00 / 2) (#256)
    by Edger on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:47:27 PM EST
    aren't you? ;-)

    You have a few many years to decide yet after all, right?

    Parent

    Damn... (5.00 / 2) (#261)
    by Edger on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:49:18 PM EST
    Need to proof my few many comments better.

    Parent
    I see you are still replying to (5.00 / 1) (#296)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:14:25 PM EST
    yourself, Edger, but where have you been?

    Parent
    I've been here (5.00 / 3) (#302)
    by Edger on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:19:01 PM EST
    but just kind of hovering, you know? Also very busy building this.

    Parent
    Nice job. Best wishes. (5.00 / 2) (#306)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:23:52 PM EST
    Thank you. :-) (5.00 / 1) (#309)
    by Edger on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:30:01 PM EST
    that's a fine answer... (5.00 / 1) (#257)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:47:39 PM EST
    The 5 year plan always freaks me out.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#271)
    by Steve M on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:55:34 PM EST
    Almost nobody knows.  Don't sweat it.

    I've been a securities lawyer for a decade because I happened to be assigned to some securities cases as a first-year associate and it was interesting.  When I started law school I didn't even know what a security was.

    Parent

    I almost wish I could watch (5.00 / 5) (#54)
    by kenosharick on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:25:32 PM EST
    the faces of the "obamamaniacs" on election night November as Barack loses "his" states of Georgia,Virginia,North Carolina,Wisconsin, Missouri, South Dakota, Wyoming, ect. Not to mention Ohio,Penn., Fla.,and maybe Mass!!! Will they realize what they did, or just blame Hillary? The party leadership and supers KNOW who would be stronger- they are delibratly throwing this election. Because of that and the Obama campaigns slandering the Clintons as racists I feel no guilt about not voting for him in Nov.

    Hey cheer up (5.00 / 9) (#75)
    by Upstart Crow on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:31:20 PM EST
    Tonight Obama has accused McCain of "losing his bearings."

    Having conducted a sexist campaign, with his stooges using what can only be described as hate speech at every turn, he's now tackling ageism.

    Thank you, Obama, for bringing us together.  We're getting a good idea of the changes you would like to see.  

    No old people.  No poor people.  No women.  "Tomorrow belongs to me." Sieg heil!

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#93)
    by Steve M on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:36:16 PM EST
    the press has played up that line, but what Obama actually said wasn't bad at all.  This is just the media starting to play their usual tricks on Dems.

    Parent
    It's a carefully (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:41:19 PM EST
    orchestrated campaign.

    "Senility" is the suggestion.

    everything Obama has said in the campaign has been designed to suggest Clinton is a corrupt liar.  And it worked.

    maybe McCain is senile.


    Parent

    If we're lucky (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:43:54 PM EST
    it will work one more time.

    Parent
    Tasteless (none / 0) (#160)
    by daria g on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:58:43 PM EST
    I don't agree with McCain on the issues and I know what kind of reputation he has for a hot temper, but.. I don't think this is any way to win an election.  I bet that's their strategy, just continue to taunt him with those sorts of comments until (they hope) he blows his top and scares off the voters, or even if he doesn't, the slightest change in demeanor will get pounded on as a sign that he could at any time.  Maybe I'm naive to disagree with that kind of strategy, but I do.  And sadly, I think it could actually work.  Today's comments sounded like a crass cheap shot to me, I have no idea how it'll play in the media, but then the media loves McCain..  

    Parent
    It's an excellent way to win an election (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:00:41 PM EST
    Play the politics of personal destruction. . .or get destroyed.

    Parent
    The "lost his bearings" comment by (none / 0) (#222)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:29:51 PM EST
    Obama was apparently in response to a McCain fundraising letter including Hamas wants Obama to win.  So, perhaps Obama was correct to go on offensive.

    Parent
    But of course (none / 0) (#263)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:50:20 PM EST
    Palestinians probably would prefer a Dem. Most Israelis probably would too.

    Parent
    i don't think the state of israel prefers obama. (5.00 / 1) (#288)
    by hellothere on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:08:08 PM EST
    I would have guessed (based on (none / 0) (#268)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:52:55 PM EST
    no info) most Israelis would prefer a Republican administration to keep the pipeline open for military materiel and $$.  

    Parent
    When Obama Loses, (none / 0) (#185)
    by dugan49 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:11:23 PM EST
    the 'white' voter who 'abandoned' him will be blamed.

    No doubt about it.

    Parent

    Amazing (5.00 / 13) (#66)
    by Steve M on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:28:20 PM EST
    Matt Stoller wrote this:

    I'm also told, though I can't confirm, that Obama campaign has also subtly encouraged donors to not fund groups like VoteVets and Progressive Media.  These groups fall under the 'same old Washington politics' which he wants to avoid, a partisan gunslinging contest he explicitly advocates against.  

    With the caveat that Matt is acknowledging he can't confirm it, holy F, can you believe Obama would tell anyone not to give to VOTEVETS?  This is our secret plan to end the war?

    For the record, Matt wasn't even sharing that in a critical way.  I have no idea how any progressive can be okay with it.

    Oh, so you mean Obama's anti-war creds (5.00 / 7) (#94)
    by madamab on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:36:58 PM EST
    are just a fairy tale?

    (I'm snarking because I'm f-ing horrified.)

    Parent

    It's funny (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:37:31 PM EST
    because Bowers is usually the one to report stuff like that in a breathtakingly uncritical way. (I think he gave us the capitalized Creative Class).

    Parent
    This is creepy. (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:38:19 PM EST
    Not that it's a cult, but I was watching a programme yesterday about a guy who thinks he's the messiah. He's a former 7th dayer.

    Basically he suggests situatiuons and words in sermons and bingo the congregants start thinking they thought it themselves and act out on the suggestions.

    He bans all sexual intercourse and affection between married congragants and only allows them to be emotionally intimate with him.

    So he'll say:

    Be naked in front of the lord, be not ashamed in the face of god  (Noah? Lott?) and the women turn up at his door naked and lay down with him. It's all astonishing.

    Teh poor men think they are living pure lives a celebates as their wives are seduced by this guy.

    It's quite amazing that the fool is still alive after what he's done to these men and women.

    So various groups are not going to get the greasy intercourse of money now. A new machine is being built. All perfectly ordered and geared toward his win and interests.


    Parent

    Krakauer (5.00 / 4) (#112)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:43:49 PM EST
    Under the Banner of Heaven.  

    How come it is that with all of these cult leaders, the first thing they get told by god is that they've gotta have sex with all the women?  Manson, Koresh, this nutball...it's basic cult 101.  And a good thing, because most of these guys would never get laid but for god telling them women to throw them one.

    And how come god never tells the polygamist to marry the old crone down the street with hair on her chin and a third nipple?  It's always the lithe, young fourteen year old next door.

    Funny how that always is the case.

    Parent

    Is that you, Stellaaa, or are you (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:46:25 PM EST
    quoting Krakauer?

    Parent
    no...not me.. (none / 0) (#132)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:49:00 PM EST
    God is a member of the Creative Class (5.00 / 6) (#135)
    by lookoverthere on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:50:04 PM EST
    but only a B-list blogger.

    Parent
    Excellent book that was... (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by bjorn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:54:02 PM EST
    I think the key to cult leaders is that they are mostly sociopaths, and you are right, they can only get sex by telling the woman god says it must be so!

    Parent
    Steve, you need to figure it out: (none / 0) (#190)
    by OrangeFur on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:13:16 PM EST
    Old politics: Criticizing Republicans.
    New politics: Criticizing Democrats.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#223)
    by Steve M on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:29:59 PM EST
    sounds like the Democrats have had the "new politics" figured out for years, in that case.

    Parent
    Oh, "progressives" (none / 0) (#326)
    by AnninCA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:45:46 PM EST
    are in for a lot of rude shocks.  :)  He'll dump moveon.org as fast as possible.

    Obama proved absolutely with Wright that he's ALL about transformation, and that means...into the middle-of-the-road guy.  He's so not interested in the very people who promoted him.

    Or the AA community for that matter.

    He wants what Hillary already has.  :)

    Parent

    Jeralyn, did you hear Adam Liptak (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by bjorn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:29:47 PM EST
    on NPR today?  He is my latest hero and I was introduced to his writing in the NYTimes through this blog. Thank you for that!

    Weinstein Threatens Dems Where it Hurts $$$ (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Exeter on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:46:32 PM EST
    Clinton supporter pressures Pelosi over White House battle
    Posted: 10:12 AM ET
    WASHINGTON -- In a heated phone call with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi late last month, Hillary Clinton supporter Harvey Weinstein threatened to cut off campaign money to congressional Democrats unless Pelosi embraced a new plan by the movie mogul to finance a revote of the Democratic presidential primaries in Florida and Michigan, according to three officials who were briefed on the contents of the conversation.

    The three officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk publicly about the private phone conversation, said Weinstein, a top supporter of Clinton's presidential campaign, appeared determined to buy Clinton more time in her battle against Sen. Barack Obama by pushing for the revote and pressing Pelosi to back off her previous comments that superdelegates should support the candidate who's leading in pledged delegates in early June.

    Weinstein, a co-founder of Miramax Films who now runs the Weinstein Company, called CNN Thursday to vehemently deny that he issued any threats. "Never, ever was the thought about denying funding to Democrats," he said.

    Weinstein said the phone call focused on his offer to put together a team of people to help finance a revote in Florida and Michigan. "I told her people felt there would be a disenfranchisement of voters" unless Democrats came up with a remedy, he said.



    I saw that. Also saw Oliver (none / 0) (#165)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:01:49 PM EST
    Stone donated a measly $500 to, was it Clinton?

    Parent
    Pelosi's answer? (none / 0) (#267)
    by AnninCA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:52:43 PM EST
    Apparently, she cut a meeting short today to go race over to see Obama.

    blech

    Parent

    All those A-list bloggers... (5.00 / 4) (#182)
    by OrangeFur on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:10:23 PM EST
    The funny thing is that they all assume because they support Obama beyond all reason, that Obama supports them. Wrong.

    Obama is for Obama. Just because they share a generally elitist world outlook and indifference to the working/middle class, it doesn't mean he shares their politics or philosophy. Unless they also think Ronald Reagan was the cat's pajamas and that the Republicans are better than Democrats on a whole host of issues.

    I guess everyone has their idealism tempered by disappointment every now and then. For these folks, I'm guessing early 2009 will be one of those times.

    The New Democratic Party (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by sas on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:14:17 PM EST
    No Working class types allowed!!!!! Working mom?  Get out!
    And  middle aged college educated white women are not welcome either.... neither are the seniors....and no Latinos....and don't expect that the clingy, small town types are welcome either...own a gun?  not for you either...how about a Bible?  ever read that?  oops, sorry, not for you either...Patriotic?  Huh?  Not sure what you mean by that....White Catholic?  Hell, no! Jew?  What, are you kidding? No! ....Gay?  well, they don't even acknowledge you...Women as a group? OK as long as you don't expect anything from us.... Black?  Well you are in this time because the candidate is mixed white/black...


    No no no (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by janarchy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:16:54 PM EST
    he's all about Unity. It's Hillary who isn't. She's divisive and racist. I just saw it on The Daily Show so it must be true. You know because actually talking about the demographics of her base is WRONG! And EVIL! Obama is the Unificator!!11!! /snark

    Parent
    I urge all those folks.... (none / 0) (#264)
    by kdog on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:50:20 PM EST
    and anybody who wants to rattle the cage of corrupt leadership to vote for this guy, this guy, this guy, or even this guy.  Whoevers name doesn't have a D or an R after it.

    At the very least it would be interesting.

    Parent

    Nader (none / 0) (#276)
    by janarchy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:59:12 PM EST
    will never get a vote from me either. I will look into the other guys though. Thanks for the tip!

    Parent
    Watch out for Frank Moore... (none / 0) (#289)
    by kdog on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:09:18 PM EST
    that guy is freakin' nuts, but still an improvement over Obama/Clinton/McCain in my knuckleheaded opinion.

    Steve Kissing looks very promising, I hope he makes some noise.  

    Parent

    Personally (none / 0) (#307)
    by janarchy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:24:22 PM EST
    I'm leaning toward Gravel or Barr if they get the Libertarian nomination. I'm not that picky these days.

    Parent
    Steve Kissing's site is fascinating... (none / 0) (#300)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:17:59 PM EST
    Well done website. Great campaign t-shirt.

    And that whole #3 section of his platform that discusses Anne Lamott's "cor3ctal theology" was absolutely fabulous...I laughed...I cried...I felt just a smidge better.

    Parent

    dang, it sounds like they need to find a (none / 0) (#281)
    by hellothere on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:01:53 PM EST
    place for a special country just for them and obama can be the president for something like that.

    do the aa voters understand they don't fit in either? just wondering.

    Parent

    Ed Koch (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by facta non verba on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:14:28 PM EST
    had some interesting things about Barack Obama today.

    Ed Koch

    He cuts to the chase and doesn't mince his words.

    Now I know the end is near (none / 0) (#204)
    by janarchy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:20:08 PM EST
    Ed Koch said something lucid, insightful and...intelligent. I never thought I'd see the day. Sadly, no one will listen to him because he's been so in the tank for Bush and Lieberman and their ilk for so long.

    Parent
    I always liked him (none / 0) (#208)
    by bjorn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:23:36 PM EST
    Ed Koch...An Astute Observer and Truer (none / 0) (#327)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:46:10 PM EST
    words were never spoken.

    Parent
    Pro-Hillary Blogs (5.00 / 2) (#215)
    by Chimster on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:25:52 PM EST
    I've been looking for more blogs to visit that are pro-Hillary besides the ones always mentioned here (i.e. Taylor Marsh, MYDD). But here's two blogs you Hill supporters might want to check out (forgive me if you already know about them).

    By The Fault
    http://www.bythefault.com

    The Confluence
    http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com

    These blogs are awesome. If you have any others that are good, please post em. I'm always looking for more.

    Let me self promote (5.00 / 2) (#280)
    by lambert on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:01:42 PM EST
    Lambert.. (5.00 / 3) (#293)
    by Chimster on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:12:17 PM EST
    Awhile back I went to Corrente and read a piece written by you. It was one if the best written articles on a blog I've ever read. I bookmarked Correntwire ever since. Your blog (and No Quarter) are one of the others that I assumed everyone knew about.

    If there are Hillary supports who do not know about Corrente, please go there and bookmark it! It's one I will always go to even after the primaries and GE.

    Parent

    Sideshow (5.00 / 2) (#283)
    by lambert on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:02:56 PM EST
    If you want brilliant aggregation and a neutral point of view, read

    http://sideshow.me.uk/

    Avedon is superb.

    Parent

    Anglachel (5.00 / 1) (#287)
    by lambert on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:07:21 PM EST
    Agreed. (none / 0) (#298)
    by Chimster on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:15:45 PM EST
    I stumbled across this blog by accident. Although they don't update as often as most, that blogger's brilliant as well.

    Parent
    Never leave an American behind (5.00 / 1) (#226)
    by davnee on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:30:35 PM EST
    I'm proposing that for McCain's slogan.  (Cleaned up gender version of "never leave a man behind").  McCain stayed in a prison camp when he had an out because he'd never leave a man behind.  I say he transforms that ultimate Americana street cred into a Republican spin on a populist agenda.  Run a good old fashioned, entrepreneurial, up by your bootstraps version of populism.  Go straight at Latinos and blue collar whites and tell them you are going to give them the temporary relief and the long term tools to live the dream.  Republicans like to talk about teaching people to fish rather than giving them fish.  Sure the policies proposed will be BS tax-break stuff rather than effective solutions, but the Republican riff on HRC's campaign can't look too bad against Obama's "let's fix Washington before we bother feeding, healing or employing anyone" campaign platform.  If the Dems don't want these voters, McCain should wrap himself in a flag and a gas tax holiday and have at them.  I'm already hearing the God Bless America refrain.

    That is actually (none / 0) (#248)
    by Step Beyond on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:43:18 PM EST
    A really good slogan.

    I know McCain has some Spanish language internet ads online. He's definitely going for that voting block.

    Parent

    I was only being mildly facetious (none / 0) (#301)
    by davnee on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:18:05 PM EST
    when I wrote the above post.  I really think the slogan has merit.  At bottom, isn't the war on terror not just about saving our hides but also about believing that our society is too righteous to be lost?   America as the shining city on the hill and all that.  I think McCain should tie his hard war on terror line with the internal populism line and say we must survive because we are Americans, and we are special, and since we are special we must honor our first principle that makes us special of the American dream of freedom and prosperity for all.  This is more or less the theme politicians already run on, but Obama has given McCain an opening here to tie it all together with a bow and be the man of the people.  Not just our protector but our provider too.  Obama can still to being our professor

    Parent
    stick to being our professor (none / 0) (#304)
    by davnee on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:20:58 PM EST
    whoops, it's late.

    Parent
    If Hillary is out then McCain is in. (5.00 / 2) (#295)
    by Nevadamom on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:14:16 PM EST
    I am a registered Democrat and have been my whole life. First voted in my home state of Ky, then NYC for 13 years, CA for 8 and now in Nev. I can not believe that after the 2000 election no one from the Democratic party has tried to change the election process in this country. EVERY VOTE SHOULD COUNT. Period! How can we "promote Democracy" in the world when we don't have it here at home? With the current election process, we are a Republic not Democracy, a mere "representation "of what we think the majority votes. Let me tell you after the debacle I experienced in the state of Nevada I am completely convinced that our system is BROKEN. It is not working. We should have fixed this in 2001 don't you think?
    I first supported John Edwards because I believed in his campaign. He had great ideas and plans. When he was out I felt that Hillary Clinton was the best candidate. Now with the prospect of Obama versus McCain, I actually think that for the first time ever in my life, I will vote Republican. I cannot support Obama's healthcare plan and actually feel like he is more of a republican than John McCain. Isn't that sad? This whole long year has been so irritating on many levels but most of all that it doesn't even matter who I vote for because I live in Nevada right now. That is just disgusting when I think about our founding fathers and what people have gone through to get the right to vote in this country. It is a sad shame that with all of the historic talk that the Democrats will again lose and should lose in the coming election. I hate to say that, but it is the truth.
    Disheartened, disgusted and disenfranchised.

    Go here... (none / 0) (#303)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:20:57 PM EST
    get a Kissing for Prez t-shirt and read his platform.

    Parent
    Hillary is done??? (5.00 / 4) (#308)
    by nell on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:26:56 PM EST
    Not according to this super!!!

    BREAKING NEWS: Congressman Chris Carney (PA) endorses Senator Hillary Clinton

    U.S. Rep. Chris Carney announced Thursday that he's backing Hillary Clinton in the presidential primary

    Carney reported meeting with Clinton Wednesday, "and let her know Thursday that I am supporting her."

    "I have watched this primary process very closely, and as I said I would do, I have weighed the temperament and leadership displayed by Sens. Clinton and Obama during the course of this campaign," Carney said in a statement. "We are extremely fortunate to have two very strong candidates vying to lead our nation. Pennsylvania's 10th (Congressional) District (voters) overwhelmingly chose Sen. Clinton in the Pennsylvania primary and I will respect their decision."

    Rebecca Gale, his press secretary, said he was traveling with a congressional delegation to the U.S-Mexico border to evaluate border security and unavailable for comment.

    A full story will be available in Friday's print edition of The Daily Review.

    The media has declared Hillary dead, once again, but she has gotten three Congressional supers since she won Indiana. If these people thought she had no chance, they would not be pledging their support to her. He may have gotten more, but given the TERRIBLE press coverage she has had, this is great news!

    She won his district overwhelmingly (none / 0) (#315)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:34:56 PM EST
    so that makes some sense.

    He's in a dangerous spot this November, and the Creative Class won't be sufficient to get him reelected.

    (He happens to kinda suck as a representative, but he's probably the best you can get out of a district like that).

    Parent

    Proposal (5.00 / 2) (#324)
    by miriam on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:42:33 PM EST
    Since Dean, Pelosi, Brazile, etc. are working so hard to make Obama the nominee, I think they should sign a contract (with the rest of us) saying:  If Obama does not win in November each and every one of them will immediately give up (as in resign) their current posts and their membership in the Democratic party.

    The Obama strategy? (4.33 / 6) (#100)
    by Mrwirez on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:38:28 PM EST
    He wants to knock Hillary out and to be the first "black" man to win the Democratic nomination..

    Then will be swiftly defeated by the monolithic, white, racist, voting bloc known as the Republican party. Not including white crossover democrats who will NEVER elect a black man as a national leader and commander in chief. And to those crossover "Reagan" democrats, how many stay republican? I do not know of ONE democrat personally who will vote for Barack Obama in November. I swear, I am not lying.

    My only question is who is the selfish one here? Who is really thinking about the democratic party as a whole? Obama who thinks he can win with this crazy "new" democratic map or Hillary who knows she can win by the same states William Jefferson Clinton won in his 1996 campaign, except for maybe Arizona because of McCain's back yard. Compare Hillary's primary wins to Obama's primary wins. She wins, he does not. It's not math it is reality.

    Bill Clinton 1996 -    http://tinyurl.com/5ftq5o


    Obama's Western Strategy (none / 0) (#1)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:01:51 PM EST
    Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico. It's still being talked about.

    What would you do if you were McCain and you knew that Obama did not pick Gov. Rendell as his VP and instead picked a Westerner?

    I reckon he'd pick Romney as a counter.

    That Western strategy depends on the Latinas. (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by alexei on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:25:59 PM EST
    McCain will do well with Hispanics if Obama is the nominee.  Obama will need 60% of that vote to win those states.  He won't even come close.  Hillary has a good chance to do that.

    Parent
    He better not take my Governor (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by BarnBabe on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:43:58 PM EST
    First of all, I would hate to see Ed's political life go down the tubes. And, he is a good governor. Hillary can have him, but only Hillary. Heh.

    Parent
    heh, I don't blame ya (none / 0) (#310)
    by nycstray on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:31:04 PM EST
    I've grown very attached to your Gov. :)

    I don't think he would do an Obama VP. He may campaign his state for him, but he seems to smart to give up his cred.

    Parent

    Romney (none / 0) (#97)
    by bigbay on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:37:39 PM EST
    Nevada has a lot of Mormans. And Romney did well in Colorado, as well as Michigan. He brings the base home , and most people see him as competent, even if most don't really like him.

    Parent
    Bonus (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by cawaltz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:50:16 PM EST
    They'd be ahead of the curve on health care with Romney too. We'd hear all about how he tried to bring health care o everyone but it just didn't work.(All the while leaving out that he didn't have a public plan to compete with the private ones).

    Parent
    Fast Eddie (none / 0) (#318)
    by Rhouse on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:36:22 PM EST
    is loyal to his Democratic base in PA and knows them well, and on the plus side he keeps saying things to piss off Obama's people go here:
    http://thepage.time.com/key-exchange-between-nprs-on-point-and-gov-rendell/
    or to read the salient point from the NPR interview (sorry cut and paste warning):
    GOV. ED RENDELL: Yeah, but I don't think that it is it...I think we should let every state vote. I think Senator Clinton is going to win crushing victories in West Virginia and Kentucky and Puerto Rico and hold her own in the other states...People should take advantage of the polls and figure out the electoral math...It's going to be an interesting three or four weeks. Let the people vote, and I would suggest that if there is any way to let Michigan and Florida vote, I would love to have seen it. We tried to work to get Michigan to approve a new primary, the DNC was for it, but unfortunately the Obama folks killed it in the Michigan legislature...
    Bold Face Mine

    He may be a loose cannon, but he's ours.

    Parent
    This post goes with "He better not take my (none / 0) (#323)
    by Rhouse on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:42:07 PM EST
     Governor -- Sorry

    Parent
    What's McCain's biggest (none / 0) (#102)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:39:35 PM EST
    admitted weakness?  The economy.  Who's the undisputed businessman on the republican side?

    Yep.

    This can't be like Obama, where he is so smart and experienced about everything that he can run as his own vice president, too...

    Parent

    Romney would appear to be (none / 0) (#136)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:50:10 PM EST
    a good pick for a variety of reasons.

    The most plastic candidate has all the extra dimensions.

    Parent

    CSI tonight... (none / 0) (#16)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:13:16 PM EST
    The guys who work with 2 and a Half Men were the ones behind tonight's CSI.

    Bad puns galore.

    Did you watch (none / 0) (#58)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:26:05 PM EST
    Two and a half men on Monday?  The folks from CSI were behind the Two and a Half Men episode.  It was hysterical.

    BTW, I think Jeralyn would actually like parts of CSI.  They have this interrogator cop (name escapes me) who is a real jerk.  The best part is that he actually comes off as a jerk, everyone knows he's a jerk, and he screws up because of it all the time.  

    He's a caricature.

    The rest of the show I love, since it's mostly lab stuff.  Some of it is quite unrealistic, but cute anyway.

    Parent

    Oh damn.... (none / 0) (#80)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:33:06 PM EST
    I didn't know that.

    ::sigh::

    Parent

    I'm sure they'll do (none / 0) (#155)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:57:09 PM EST
    reruns.  It's unmissable.

    Parent
    So now all us whites who support Obama (none / 0) (#25)
    by halstoon on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:17:28 PM EST
    are not 'hard-working Americans.'

    Way to promote Unity and stay above the fray, Hill!!

    Don't go away mad...

    She's on the way out Halstoon (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:18:16 PM EST
    no need to be bitter in the moment of victory.

    Parent
    Heh...we were never about unity (none / 0) (#33)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:20:41 PM EST
    we are bitter and angry.  Remember when they would all call Edwards angry, that is why they did not like him?

    Parent
    Edwards is about as far from Angry ... (5.00 / 4) (#41)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:23:08 PM EST
    ...as any politician I can think of.

    he is a very sunny person. Totally maligned by the same press that is shoving Obama down our throats.

    Think about his sociopolitical baggage now.  How easy it would have gone in November.

    Parent

    Oh, honey--Edwards is angry (5.00 / 8) (#91)
    by Kathy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:35:47 PM EST
    you just can't tell because he's southern.

    The more he smiles, the more furious he is.  My mama always talked her sweetest right before she smacked me for doing something stupid.

    Parent

    I'm transplanted English (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:45:53 PM EST
    so I know all about those deeply ironic social put downs.

    Where do you think I originated?

    Parent

    Kathy's right about this (none / 0) (#111)
    by angie on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:42:10 PM EST
    I'm surprised he hasn't had a stroke -- that's how angry he is.

    Parent
    Having grown up in the South (none / 0) (#292)
    by AnninCA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:11:58 PM EST
    I do confess, I'm the same way.  When I get quiet and polite, that's usually when I'm very focused and probably dangerous to others.  :)

    Parent
    The Independent Party Candidate? (none / 0) (#130)
    by BarnBabe on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:48:31 PM EST
    I have been trying to think who would be the leader. He could do it. I know, never going to happen but right now it sounds like a good idea.

    Parent
    Wonder if he announces tomorrow (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:51:19 PM EST
    If Obama wins, I will work night and day to organize a populist party.  

    Parent
    If he gives his delegates to Obama (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by BarnBabe on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:58:26 PM EST
    I will e-mail him and ask for a refund. He shouldn't because he has always been for the hard working people. We shall see. He and Elizabeth could help start the new Independent Party. I say that because after my whole life being a Democrat, I am so annoyed with the Democratic Party that maybe it is time.

    Parent
    No he should be DNC chair (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by Salo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:02:43 PM EST
    after Obama messes the election up.

    Parent
    Why should that bother you.... (none / 0) (#37)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:21:37 PM EST
    ...aren't you guys "post" all that? You should try being "post" taken offense at stuff. That's what us old left behind Hillary supporters do. And as for unity, as long as the creative class is happy, isn't that all that really matters? Remember, you don't need us.

    Parent
    I am looking forward to (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by bjorn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:24:11 PM EST
    post-obamabots, when the real people return to their bodies!

    Parent
    no, in body snatchers, the aliens won (none / 0) (#67)
    by DandyTIger on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:28:58 PM EST
    so I don't expect the real people to return to their bodies. They are obamabots forever. And soon you will be as well. You will be assimilated. :-)

    Parent
    They didn't listen to (none / 0) (#150)
    by Robot Porter on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:55:56 PM EST
    Kevin McCarthy.

    Luckily, most of us here did.

    Parent

    Since they don't need us (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by madamab on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:27:57 PM EST
    I wonder why they are always here hectoring and berating us?

    I cannot imagine going over to Daily Kos or AmericaBlog or JMM's place and pissing in their sandbox. I don't like them, so I leave them alone.

    I wish they would do the same.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#171)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:04:07 PM EST
    that's my attitude too.  If I'm so far removed from their thinking and we both know we'll never change each other's minds, continuing to try is just harassment, IMHO.

    Parent
    do you know you are lying (none / 0) (#104)
    by angie on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:40:13 PM EST
    when you intentionally misrepresent what she says, like you are doing here, or do you really not know better?

    Parent
    Haven't you 'won' yet (none / 0) (#139)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:50:51 PM EST
    Where's my unity pony?

    Parent
    Disagree (none / 0) (#172)
    by daria g on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:06:12 PM EST
    Describing people in general as hardworking does not imply any deficiency in any specific group of people. It's a catchall term, unless you want to twist it..

    She is saying, if you are hardworking we will stand up for you.  It doesn't matter what level of job you work hard at.

    Parent

    This post makes no sense at all. (none / 0) (#176)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:07:38 PM EST
    Didn't you know? (none / 0) (#241)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:38:27 PM EST
    Boulder is the only truly important part of Colorado.

    Course my favorite description from when I was living there came from a Denverite: "30 miles of pure fantasy land surrounded by Reality."

    Parent

    As Ann Arbor is to MI. (5.00 / 1) (#290)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:11:24 PM EST
    I don't get why Obama's supporters (none / 0) (#259)
    by shoephone on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:47:57 PM EST
    are so convinced he can win Colorado. I'm not seeing it. What am I missing?

    Parent
    I dunno... (5.00 / 1) (#278)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:00:01 PM EST
    Maybe cause he thinks he can take it since it was a swing state in 2004. ::shrug::

    I don't see it.

    In the TX primary, who won Ft. Worth? Denver reminded me a lot of Ft. Worth...same historic cow town turned modernish feel.

    Parent

    If demographics equals destiny, (none / 0) (#262)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:49:19 PM EST
    doesn't seem to me that CO or OR fit.

    Parent
    Lost - just threw me another curve ball (none / 0) (#173)
    by MMW on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:06:43 PM EST
    I'm more Lost than the characters.

    And to boot - I have a headache from concentrating too hard.

    I got no clues right now.

    I'm off to bed.

    Props respect... (none / 0) (#181)
    by kdog on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:10:18 PM EST
    to all the people that got locked up yesterday protesting in NYC.

    Unfrtunately nothing will change...the police state will grind on till the next poor slob gets shot 30 times.

    to diogenes's comment in (none / 0) (#187)
    by kangeroo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:11:47 PM EST
    an earlier thread:

    At this time in 2002 Bill Clinton was running third; maybe the dems should have nominated Ross Perot?

    it's funny you mention that, because i see obama as the younger, AA version of ross perot with a (D) after his name.  he's managed to artificially grow the small, sporadic 3rd party insurrections that have long peppered our electoral history into a large-scale "movement" by hijacking the dem brand.  it's misleading, it's illegitimate, and it pisses me off.

    Bill ran in 2002? (none / 0) (#195)
    by OrangeFur on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:15:43 PM EST
    Awesome.

    Obama isn't like Perot. Perot talked about policy, and pretty much only policy. I loved his half-hour talks on obscure TV stations. They felt more real to me than most politicians soaring speeches, including Obama's.

    Parent

    i figure he must have meant 1992. (none / 0) (#212)
    by kangeroo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:24:24 PM EST
    but wasn't perot all about technical fixes to process issues, rather than making government work for working-class people?

    Parent
    I remember... (none / 0) (#220)
    by OrangeFur on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:29:03 PM EST
    ... he talked a lot about the federal budget deficit, using those pie charts and pointers. Of course, I was kind of young back then...

    Parent
    heh, well i was very very young back then. (none / 0) (#236)
    by kangeroo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:37:34 PM EST
    from what i understand, perot was trying to be an "outsider" leading a so-called movement to shake up government--but he was more into procedural or stylistic technicalities like lobbying reform and congressional pay raises, rather than making government a proactive vehicle for important public goods like investing in health care and job training.  they had very different perspectives, i thought, especially regarding the role of government.

    Parent
    Come on Jeralyn (none / 0) (#199)
    by oxpecker on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:18:28 PM EST
    You can't have a public election funded privately.

    This is from your link.
    Senate Minority Leader Buzz Thomas of Detroit, co-chairman for Barack Obama's presidential campaign in Michigan, said the Obama campaign shouldn't be blamed for killing the primary do-over.

    "Democrats from all sides were opposed to this," Thomas said. Chief among the concerns, he said: a privately funded public election, and logistics problems for local clerks.

    Um, actually you can. It's happened (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by MarkL on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:21:43 PM EST
    in Seattle a few times.

    Parent
    Sure you can (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by Step Beyond on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:23:16 PM EST
    Caucuses are privately funded. The funds for them come from the parties which gets the money from donations.

    So if the Clinton campaign donated the money to the state party to pay for it and then the state party ran it as they normally would then what is the difference?

    Parent

    caucuses yea (none / 0) (#219)
    by oxpecker on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:28:31 PM EST
    and maybe in Seattle, but not for the POTUS, jeesh.
    And if I'm not mistaken Obama agreed to a caucus.

    Parent
    Be sure to take one excuse (none / 0) (#230)
    by andgarden on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:32:03 PM EST
    from column C. ;-)

    Parent
    Ha Ha would (none / 0) (#238)
    by oxpecker on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:38:01 PM EST
     column C be from Clinton?

    Parent
    Then Obama agree private funds are OK (none / 0) (#285)
    by Step Beyond on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:05:15 PM EST
    So he wouldn't have had a problem with a privately funded election for POTUS then. If he would have agreed to a caucus he wouldn't have cared that the state wasn't paying for it.

    Problem solved.

    Parent

    That's some brilliant logic (none / 0) (#321)
    by oxpecker on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:40:56 PM EST
    maybe for a child. You can't have privately funded public elections, not in America. Caucuses are private by nature and can be funded privately. Since Michigan who caused the problem in the first place wouldn't fund it, then the only option is the caucus which Obama agreed to and Hillary didn't. Who's fault is that?

    Parent
    I'm curious as to how (none / 0) (#227)
    by zfran on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:31:13 PM EST
    during this primary season Sen. Obama dissed the 90's and the Clinton administration and in his interviews today on cable, he talked about returning to some of the policies of the 90's. Does anyone see anything bizarre about this...oh and one more note, if Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton were (are) so awful that Mrs. Obama said she'd have to think about supporting Sen. Clinton (she said this early on in the process), then why has he used all of Bill Clinton's former "people" to work on his campaign?

    The man is a mess (none / 0) (#312)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:32:05 PM EST
    And the mess will come forward more as time goes on.

    Parent
    yup, i wondered too if the aa voters (none / 0) (#297)
    by hellothere on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:14:53 PM EST
    were aware they aren't included in the new democratic party. way to go, dems!

    The Rev. Al says its over: (none / 0) (#330)
    by oculus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:50:28 PM EST
    NYT

    Man, this guy gets around.  Just yesterday he was being arrested by the Brooklyn Bridge.

    Anybody have the demographics (none / 0) (#332)
    by cawaltz on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:00:40 AM EST
    on how many African American households have computers and the ability to blog well enough to feel "comfortable" with the netroots?  Last I heard, the AA community was woefully underrepresented in the netroots. Too busy earning a living and all that. I feel sorry that the AA community is being played. They deserve a coalition that understands that working class and recognizes that THEY are a part of it.