home

CNN: Hillary Wins Indiana

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:50:15 PM EST
Tags: Indiana '08 (all tags)
Share This: Digg This!! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

Update: CNN finally calls Indiana for Hillary. 51 to 49% with 99% in. A win is a win, tonight is a split decision between NOrth Carolina and Indiana. John King says it will be roughtly a 50/50 split of the delegates.

****

Late Night Drama in Indiana

Update: Obama won't win Indiana. 98% of Lake County is in, the later votes are for Hillary, it's 65% to 55%. She's still 21,000 votes ahead statewide. 5% of the state is still out, but CNN says Hillary will squeak by in Indiana. More...

Update: Keep in mind, the pro-Obama cities are in for Lake County. It's the cities she won that haven't been reported. As the Mayor of Hammond said, backed up by the NW Indiana Times, Gary, Merrillville, and parts of East Chicago and Munster are the only ones Obama won. Hillary's margins will increase when they report the votes from Crown Point, and the southern towns in the County. (South of I-30.)

Wolf Blitzer also finds the Mayor of Gary incredible and is quizzing him again on why they didn't report the non-absentee ballots. The Mayor of Hammond says the appearance of impropriety is strong.

****

The Mayor of Hammond, Tom McDermott, is a mensch. He's the best guest on cable tv all night.

First thread on the mysteriously delayed reporting of Lake County votes here.

Warning: It's late, everyone's emotional, but keep it civil and don't insult others, make claims of voter fraud (as opposed to questioning the legitimacy of the process)or post false information. My finger is very quick on the delete key tonight when I see such comments.

Where we left off: Obama has 65% of Lake County, Hillary 35%. John King says 17,000 vote difference statewide between them and Obama could win. 44% of Lake County is in, 95% of statewide vote.

The Mayor of Hammond says every Mayor in Lake County except the Mayor of Gary endorsed Hillary.

Carl Bernstein is again the worst pundit on all three networks. If he doesn't shut up, you'll be watching the results on your own, I'm muting the tv.

Update: I'm listening to the Mayor of Gary, Indiana. I'm not finding him credible at all.

Comments now closed.

< Gary Mayor Predicting Obama Surprise | A Plum for Hillary, A Black Eye for the Mayor of Gary, Indiana >

  • Premium Ads

  • Blog Ads

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

    donate to TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    CNN: Hillary Wins Indiana | 224 comments (224 topical)
    Well let's say this: SurveyUSA fell down tonight (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:52:34 PM EST
    And actually, the last time they made a mistake this big was on a state not so unlike Indiana: Missouri.

    Not a good night (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:56:49 PM EST
    But the turnout model was the biggest problem.

    [ Parent ]
    They fell down on the AA vote (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by madamab on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:59:54 PM EST
    by about 15%, no?

    [ Parent ]
    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:01:45 AM EST
    That's the miss.

    the voting demos were pretty much on.

    BTW, I predicted a 12.4 % Obama win in NC.

    [ Parent ]

    Go ahead, rub it in. :-) (none / 0) (#47)
    by madamab on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:03:10 AM EST
    I trusted SUSA. [sob sniff]

    [ Parent ]
    Hey, I still love them (none / 0) (#60)
    by andgarden on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:04:44 AM EST
    But when you poll so many races, you're guaranteed to fall down now and then.

    I wonder what it was that made them so wrong about turnout? They had the problem here that I predicted they were going to have in PA.

    [ Parent ]

    Zogby for VP (none / 0) (#65)
    by magster on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:05:41 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    LOL (none / 0) (#118)
    by madamab on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:14:27 AM EST
    I don't think you want him. He's a Republican IIRC.

    [ Parent ]
    Zogby had Obama winning Indiana by 2 (none / 0) (#145)
    by andrys on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:19:25 AM EST


    - Andrys


    [ Parent ]
    In that it borders Illinois? (none / 0) (#36)
    by Salo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:00:37 AM EST
    ?

    [ Parent ]
    Rural white conservative state (none / 0) (#80)
    by andgarden on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:09:09 AM EST
    with a couple of very black cities that have pretty good turnout machines.

    [ Parent ]
    ah ha. (none / 0) (#177)
    by Salo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:26:16 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Could it be voter ID law affected results? (none / 0) (#172)
    by catfish on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:24:54 AM EST
    The nuns were turned away at one place.

    [ Parent ]
    Mayor of Gary (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:55:57 PM EST
    is a buffoon.

    He certainly is (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:59:41 PM EST
    He is known as SuperFly to many in the area.  ANd when he announced he was going to another state to campaign for Obama I felt sorry for the Obama camp.

    *I support Obama,but haven't said rude things about Hillary on this site.  Not been banned or suspended.  I just want a Dem candidate and Obama is my 1st choice.  

    [ Parent ]

    You got him (5.00 / 7) (#49)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:03:36 AM EST
    Hope he can do it in November.

    I have serious doubts now.

    [ Parent ]

    Just when we needed you to rally us (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by andgarden on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:06:33 AM EST
    I hope Obama is as adept at winning the general as he has been at winning this nomination. I have serious doubts, and I'm not even sure I can convince my own mother to vote for him.

    [ Parent ]
    I write what I believe (5.00 / 3) (#117)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:14:25 AM EST
    I was hoping for Obama to prove he can win white voters. If he can't in Indiana, then where East of the Mississippi?

    [ Parent ]
    I'm hoping Massachusetts (none / 0) (#133)
    by andgarden on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:17:06 AM EST
    Losing PA and OH would be painful. I think that might be unavoidable, though.

    I think Ed Rendell is the running mate other than HRC who could make this work.

    [ Parent ]

    He will not win Massachusetts. (none / 0) (#209)
    by madamab on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:37:39 AM EST
    Sorry. McCain is already competitive with him there and the Republican 527's haven't even begun to get nasty.

    McCain even puts portions of New York in play.

    It's a complete disaster.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree with you (none / 0) (#168)
    by BigB on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:23:17 AM EST
    If Obama loses just 10% of the working class white Democrats (I think he will lose more), he will lose the fall election.

    He has not demonstrated the ability expand the Democratic coalition.

     

    [ Parent ]

    I have been saying this for months. He is... (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by alexei on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:35:30 AM EST
    unelectable and the Dems seem to want to lose.  The "new" Dem Party is just like the old, losers.  And this "old" Dem is moving on.

    [ Parent ]
    Would you like to make a wager, BTD? (none / 0) (#62)
    by MarkL on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:05:18 AM EST
    Money to go to charity?
    I think many Hillary supporters would like to see how seriously you take your belief in Obama's electability.
    It will at least give us something to look forward in November.

    [ Parent ]
    I do not (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:07:11 AM EST
    I was disappointed with his performance with white voters in Indiana.

    [ Parent ]
    And I was (none / 0) (#124)
    by IndiDemGirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:15:44 AM EST
    amazed that he did so well with white voters considering it was Indiana, I thought it would be much worse.  

    [ Parent ]
    BTD took back his claims (none / 0) (#82)
    by Korha on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:09:14 AM EST
    about Obama's electability in a thread earlier tonight.

    I'll wager with you though. I was a skeptic myself a month or two back when Wright and Bittergate were brewing and Obama was tanking in the polls vs. McCain. But he's stabilized now and the 2008 election is still really, really overdetermined for the democrats.

    [ Parent ]

    Why can't he, I wonder (none / 0) (#139)
    by IndiDemGirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:18:18 AM EST
    I mean I'm white and 40-something. I voted for him, so did my husband.  We do have graduate degrees so does that make us his base?  Can't he win over other whites?  A democrat would be better for them than a Republican.  Is the problem with him or with them?

    [ Parent ]
    He comes off like a stuffy professor (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by andgarden on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:21:05 AM EST
    with aspirations to preach. Think John Kerry but young, black, and with more "ums."

    [ Parent ]
    I always went for those professor (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by IndiDemGirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:23:12 AM EST
    types, so maybe that explains it.

    [ Parent ]
    I suspect a lot of it is style (5.00 / 4) (#213)
    by Nadai on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:40:40 AM EST
    I was an Edwards supporter first and went to Clinton when it became clear he wasn't going to make it.  At the time, I was lukewarm on both Clinton and Obama.  I spent some time looking them both over, and Obama just rubbed me the wrong way.

    He reminds me of those corporate guys from the head office who come down during the busiest time of the year to hold a day-long seminar on personal mission statements and employee buy-in to the latest corporate initiative, and then leaves, secure in the knowledge that he's educated the rubes.  Meanwhile, I'm working Saturday to catch up.

    Everything about Obama just seemed vague and unformed.  I'm not interested in unspecified change - we got change back in 2000, and I'm not real happy with it.  I'm not interested in "hope".  What does that even mean?  What am I supposed to hope for?  What does Obama have to do with hope?

    Some people like that sort of thing, I know.  I don't see the point in it.  I'm guessing that a lot of working class people don't, either.  And it's not just whites he has trouble with; it's all non-black working class people.  If he weren't black himself, I suspect he'd have trouble with the black working class, too.  When you're worried that you're going to lose your house or not be able to pay for your kid's braces, hope is better left for your lottery ticket.  From a President, you want details.  At least, I do.

    [ Parent ]

    He keeps dragging religion into everything (none / 0) (#216)
    by DaleA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:41:54 AM EST
    And that offends a lot of us. McCain for all his many, many faults does not. And the relentlessly homophobic AA church does not help with my rather small demographic. I will not vote for him period. Probably vote Green or Libertarian.

    [ Parent ]
    Why can't he, I wonder (none / 0) (#140)
    by IndiDemGirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:18:34 AM EST
    I mean I'm white and 40-something. I voted for him, so did my husband.  We do have graduate degrees so does that make us his base?  Can't he win over other whites?  A democrat would be better for them than a Republican.  Is the problem with him or with them?

    [ Parent ]
    With him (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:24:50 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    What should he do then (none / 0) (#198)
    by IndiDemGirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:33:34 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Because he offers nothing (5.00 / 3) (#175)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:26:08 AM EST
    but platitudes.  "Hope and change" is not convincing to people who don't have comfortable incomes. For those of us in the so-called "creative class" who support Hillary, it's a good deal deeper than that.  Start with his campaign's strategy of sliming the Clintons, of all people, as racists in order to win votes.  Personally, I've become convinced as time has gone by that the man is a complete phony and a fraud.

    I hope you enjoy the McCain administration.  Obama has no prayer against him.

    [ Parent ]

    And he is stupid (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by dissenter on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:28:23 AM EST
    I could point to a lot of examples but at the top of the list is this....Of call people, BO should know how insulted people feel and blue collar workers and Hispanics could not be anymore insulted than they are right now.

    It is called dignity.

    [ Parent ]

    He isn't stupid (none / 0) (#207)
    by IndiDemGirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:37:07 AM EST
    and when did he insult Hispanics?  I'll just take your name calling as an indication of bitterness regarding tonight's results.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree with the sliming the Clintons part (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by IndiDemGirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:34:42 AM EST
    I think that was a mistake.  I voted for Bill twice and thought he did a good job.  

    [ Parent ]
    It wasn't a mistake (5.00 / 2) (#219)
    by Nadai on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:42:29 AM EST
    It was a decision.

    [ Parent ]
    You seem like (5.00 / 2) (#222)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:43:46 AM EST
    a nice person.  But sliming other Democratic leaders as racist is a heck of a lot more than a "mistake" in my book, and especially when the campaign doing the sliming is advertising itself as "new politics" and being all about unity and casting aside divisiveness.

    I'm sorry, girlfriend, but the man is a total phony.

    [ Parent ]

    That's right. (5.00 / 2) (#212)
    by madamab on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:40:12 AM EST
    We want to know how he will achieve his goals because if McCain is President, our lives will get significantly worse.

    People who are living on the knife edge, ready to be evicted from their homes, unable to pay for gas to get to work, don't want to hear bumper-sticker slogans. They don't want to be talked down to and dismissed. They want to know that the Democratic candidate will address their issues.

    Obama inspires no confidence in them.

    [ Parent ]

    He's Really Reassuring Isn't He? (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by BDB on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:03:42 AM EST
    We couldn't report any of the results earlier because we wanted to make sure early voters were included in what was released.  WTF?

    [ Parent ]
    a buffoon.... (none / 0) (#15)
    by sar75 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:57:22 PM EST
    ....or a great machine operator who brought home the vote.

    [ Parent ]
    You must be joking (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:58:04 PM EST
    This is terrible for Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    Even assuming (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by liminal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:02:40 AM EST
     that everything is on the up and up, and the mayor just wanted to do a bit of grandstanding by holding back his vote into the wee hours and drawing the world's attention back to himself and his city, the mayor of Gary is a complete buffoon.  He's created a ready made plot line for the GOP to hammer on, and one that plays right into their fantasies of Democratic voter fraud.  

    It probably won't hurt his own constituents in Indiana, since the Supremes upheld their pointless voter ID law, but it might well hurt OTHER poor people - black and white - in OTHER states and localities across the nation - AND that is based just on the appearance of impropriety he created by holding back the vote and grandstanding about it.  

    [ Parent ]

    Agreed (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:05:32 AM EST
    He'll never get Hillary's supporters now. At least not the ones who were already pretty firm it would be difficult, if not impossible, to support his candidacy.

    This feels worse than Florida in 2000.

    [ Parent ]

    What about FL 2008?? that's fresher in (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by MarkL on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:08:02 AM EST
    memory.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't believe Hillary is cutthroat (4.33 / 3) (#27)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:59:27 PM EST
    enough to play this to her advantage, but what is happening tonight is really a golden opportunity.


    [ Parent ]
    Fox is cutthroat enough (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:00:29 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Well, she has to make the case. It's been (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by MarkL on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:03:49 AM EST
    obvious for weeks that the SD's are perfectly happy to saddle the party with an unelectable empty suit---what does tonight change?

    [ Parent ]
    Its funny how she is accused of doing anything... (5.00 / 7) (#37)
    by Marvin42 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:01:00 AM EST
    ...to win, but has actually been the one true candidate that cares about the well being of the party. I don't think you will hear a word about this from her campaign.

    [ Parent ]
    Not if it's clean... (none / 0) (#28)
    by sar75 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:59:35 PM EST
    ...if Obama pulls this out, nobody is going to be claiming voter fraud.  The headline will be a "Dewey Beats Truman." The media narrative is already "it's over" - this will just confirm it, and everyone will forget the mayors of Lake County.

    Go ahead - call me an idiot for thinking that BTD.

    [ Parent ]

    But I don't think it matters... (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by sar75 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:01:03 AM EST
    ...I don't think there are enough votes left to make up the 16k margin.  My guess is Clinton keeps the W by 5-10k.

    [ Parent ]
    I think it is better for Obama (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:04:34 AM EST
    to lose now in Indiana.

    [ Parent ]
    The damage is done (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:12:26 AM EST
    If Hillary withdraws from the race after this, what's the route to repair?


    [ Parent ]
    It will get ugly (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by sonya on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:17:57 AM EST
    if Hillary withdraws.  

    [ Parent ]
    It still won't take the stink away and the Repubs. (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by alexei on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:31:22 AM EST
    have another story line to trawl.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm not sure it matters... (none / 0) (#72)
    by sar75 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:07:23 AM EST
    ...but I still think the 'it's over' and 'Dewey Beats Truman" comparisons will overwhelm any accusations of vote fraud, which would likely be cast as sour grapes.

    Just my guess. I really don't know how it would play out if Obama won for sure, although I do think it'd be hard for Clinton to generate a narrative of corruption given that the media has effectively concluded that this is over.

    [ Parent ]

    now you re taking (none / 0) (#186)
    by Salo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:30:10 AM EST
    advantage of a gracious host.
    It's not good for Obama.  And Indiana is much more like the way Missouri really went.  Add Wisconsin to that pile.

    [ Parent ]
    Done. MSNBC called it for Hillary (none / 0) (#96)
    by magster on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:11:22 AM EST
    she gained to a 20k margin with 99%

    [ Parent ]
    I'm not BTD (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by owenaprhys on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:06:08 AM EST
    But you are an idiot. ;)

    Seriously, have you looied at the county maps? Clinton OVERWHELMINGLY won the state, it is only this last minute wrangling that is making it look like BO actually closed in.

    If he gets the nomination I predict he gets less votes than Dukakis.

    BTD and Jeralyn, try to archive this I want to be able to point to it in November.

    [ Parent ]

    But he did close in... (none / 0) (#94)
    by sar75 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:11:07 AM EST
    ...that's a fact. He progressively closed the gap.  There is no last minute wrangling, just uncounted votes that went increasingly his way.

    But thanks for calling me an idiot. I was, though, disagreeing with BTD that an Obama victory in Indiana would be bad.

    But this is all moot - Clinton won Indiana, by a very small margin.  Obama erases the delegates and popular vote that Clinton picked up in PA.

    Folks, it's over.

    [ Parent ]

    Um, (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by madamab on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:12:58 AM EST
    Obama was sure he was going to win Indiana just a little while ago.

    I believe it was HRC that closed the gap.

    [ Parent ]

    It's over for Obama (5.00 / 4) (#131)
    by sonya on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:16:35 AM EST
    He can't get enough white people to vote for him. That's the elephant in the room that people are pretending isn't there.  

    [ Parent ]
    Donna says (5.00 / 6) (#143)
    by Stellaaa on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:18:48 AM EST
    She does not need no stinking white people or hispanics.  

    [ Parent ]
    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by sonya on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:21:49 AM EST
    Donna has always been less than mediocre.  

    [ Parent ]
    But, this too will be played by the Repubs. (5.00 / 3) (#194)
    by alexei on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:32:53 AM EST
    I swear that the Dems want to lose.

    [ Parent ]
    Yup. (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by madamab on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:22:38 AM EST
    I have to say that I find it incredible that anyone thinks he can win with his current coalition.

    Even if he gets 93% of the black vote against John McCain in November, what will that matter if Indy whites and Hispanics go with McCain?

    This is why I shake my head at all the calls for unity. We Democrats are not the problem. We could all get over ourselves and vote for Obama, and he could still lose overwhelmingly. HRC gets the votes we need - the votes that all Obama's surrogates pretend never go to Democrats.

    It's incredibly depressing.

    [ Parent ]

    How can you say that? (5.00 / 1) (#210)
    by daria g on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:37:43 AM EST
    Abandoned their unions for guns?  The hell?  You know, there are not enough union jobs that pay a good wage and benefits because so much industry shut down.  That is the problem.  I also don't get what is wrong with owning guns.

    This kind of attitude is going to get us killed in November.

    [ Parent ]

    What do you mean it's over (5.00 / 3) (#178)
    by waldenpond on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:26:24 AM EST
    Didn't you just 'win'?  Obama supporters are the oddest lot.... you are the most defeatest bunch.  Shouldn't you be on a blatantly pro-Obama site celebrating right now? donating to the DNC with all the new dems and building the party? picking your down ticket candidates and doing fundraising drives? donating to 527s to take on McCain?  So little time... So many, many things to do now that you've 'won'.  Yet, here you sit.....

    [ Parent ]
    She was ahead 52 to 48 (none / 0) (#99)
    by IndiDemGirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:12:16 AM EST
    before Lake County.  That isn't overwhelmingly winning the state.

    [ Parent ]
    This is totally bizarre. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by madamab on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:56:00 PM EST
    When have you ever seen a winner not declared after 95% of the votes have been counted?

    When media know it might be only 90% (5.00 / 1) (#214)
    by Cream City on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:40:42 AM EST
    when yet more absentee ballots are found in Gary to come up with 110% in the voting in Indiana.

    Seriously.  Media know, trying to get this Gary mayor on CNN to talk any sense, while listening to the nearby mayor from Hammond calling out improproprities . . . media know that something is up.  They're even sounding sympathetic to Clinton.

    [ Parent ]

    Mayor of Hammond (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by OldCoastie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:56:03 PM EST
    says they turned there's in right on time...

    Sounds like six hours before, yet (none / 0) (#218)
    by Cream City on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:42:20 AM EST
    Hammond votes still not released to CNN.  This Hammond mayor is really incensed, calling it election "improprities" on the part of the pro-Obama mayor of Gary.

    [ Parent ]
    if ... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by dws3665 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:57:06 PM EST
    HRC hangs on, does the doom and gloom dispel, or does the perception that she couldn't win Indiana by a big margin doom her?

    This is the first "expectations" loss for Clinton since Super Tuesday, I think (though other more knowledgeable folks may have more recent examples).

    Not so sure about that ... (5.00 / 4) (#77)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:08:23 AM EST
    A 500 vote win in the dead of night in Gary -- with a vote count that stayed at 0% for hours -- might look a lot worse for Obama than a 2% loss.

    People will think, "Why'd he have to do that?"

    And those ballots that go to the airport aren't secured... It would make me more determined to fight on, especially if I had the TX affidavits in my pocket. As I do.

    [ Parent ]

    A story from Philly (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:57:29 PM EST
    on voting:

    This reminds us of an ancedote that Dolores Tayoun, wife of ex-City Councilman Jimmy Tayoun, once told us. When her husband first ran for office, Dolores proudly strode into the voting booth at 9th and Ellsworth to cast her ballot.

    She closed the curtain and -- whoosh! -- a hand suddenly reached in and flicked several levers. Call it the "Hand of Democracy."

    Shocked, an indignant Delores turned to see a man behind her and said, "I wanted to vote for my husband!"

    The man, exasperated at this novice's ignorance of South Philly politics, replied, "How [else] do you expect him to win?"




    Daily Kos (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:58:12 PM EST
    asking Clinton to stay in for WV and Kentucky so it is not an embarrassing when she wins...it would be too embarrassing if he lost those states and she had already conceded.  Weird huh?

    Kos (5.00 / 6) (#50)
    by OldCoastie on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:03:38 AM EST
    doesn't get to make any requests of Clinton.

    [ Parent ]
    so that it won't look like what it is-- (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by kangeroo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:06:05 AM EST
    an attempt to prematurely shove her out of the election?  makes perfect sense, actually, from a PR standpoint.

    [ Parent ]
    Lake County Demographics (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by ironin on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:58:23 PM EST
    Just FYI, according to Wikipedia:

    As of the census[4] of 2000, there were 484,564 people, 181,633 households, and 126,961 families residing in the county.... The racial makeup of the county was 66.72% White, 25.33% Black or African American, 0.28% Native American, 0.82% Asian, 0.04% Pacific Islander, 4.96% from other races, and 1.85% from two or more races. 12.20% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race. The most commonly cited national ancestries were German (12.2%), Polish (9.6%) and Irish (7.1%).

    Aside to Jeralyn: Thanks for running such a civil site these past few months.

    Are early voters and absentee the same thing (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Teresa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:58:57 PM EST
    in IN? We early vote on regular machines. He keeps saying early voting but why won't they have machine totals?

    He just admitted early voting was on machines. (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Teresa on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:07:59 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Depends on where you voted (none / 0) (#41)
    by IndiDemGirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:01:51 AM EST
    The system in Indiana is very antiquated and as the state is controlled by Republicans there is no emphasis on voting improvements and/or access.

    [ Parent ]
    You guys need to catch up...also leave your (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Teresa on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:04:16 AM EST
    polls open later.

    [ Parent ]
    AMEN to that! (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by IndiDemGirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:08:34 AM EST
    Maybe if we can get a Democratic gov this November we will make some progress!  I've been so caught up with the prez primary I haven't looked to see which Dem candidate is winning the nod to got against the horrid Mitch Daniels.  

    I wonder if the Gary is holding up that result too.  

    [ Parent ]

    It's at 50/50 now (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by andgarden on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:10:03 AM EST
    There are going to be questions about this vote count, I think.

    [ Parent ]
    Well, I wish you luck there. (none / 0) (#93)
    by Teresa on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:10:54 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    To be fair (none / 0) (#159)
    by IndiDemGirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:22:31 AM EST
    I did vote for Obama, though I like Hillary too.  I just want a Dem President, an overwhelmingly Dem House,  a fillibuster proof Dem Sentate, and a Dem Gov for my state.  Is that too much to ask?

    [ Parent ]
    lol, in my dreams too. I think we'd freeze (none / 0) (#188)
    by Teresa on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:30:20 AM EST
    in our tracks with that much power (our Dem leaders, not us).

    [ Parent ]
    Gary. (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by lansing quaker on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:59:43 PM EST
    I always thought it looked sinister when I took the Amtrak from Chicago to East Lansing.

    Now that image rears its ugly head in a tangible way.

    Heh (none / 0) (#48)
    by Steve M on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:03:22 AM EST
    It's largely a ghost town.  Very sad.  I miss East Lansing btw.

    [ Parent ]
    For what is worth (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by rafaelh on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:00:04 AM EST
    I read a comment earlier in the night that the Obama campaign expected to fall short in Indiana by approx. 10,000 votes. The comments said that someone in the campaign told this to Chuck Todd. Let's hope this idiot mayor in Gary doesn't ruin everything with his posturing.  

    Wasn't this the same county that held (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by nycstray on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:12:24 AM EST
    some polls open later for some reason or another?

    And how far ahead was Clinton when Obama called it her "apparent" win?

    [ Parent ]

    The world should laugh at us... (5.00 / 6) (#45)
    by citizen53 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:02:38 AM EST
    and our moral superiority about our democracy.

    We cannot even have elections that anyone can feel certain about anymore.

    You know (5.00 / 7) (#98)
    by facta non verba on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:12:14 AM EST
    I am election monitor and have monitored elections the world over, most recently Zimbabwe and there is something that is off here. I am obviously not on the ground in Gary, IN but around 6:30 Pacific I began noticing that the returns were sluggish. By that I mean that normal flow of returns were not coming through as one would expect. Delay is the Achilles Heel of credibility in elections. Look at Zimbabwe. I left Zimbabwe five days after the election and the Presidential race had no returns. Delays are suspect because they are so rare. The two causes of delays are weather or turnout. The latter may be a slight factor but that doesn't account for the Gary suburbs where the count was done early and not released. Delays are the Achilles Heels of credible elections. In Harare or Gary, Indiana.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks for the work (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by liminal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:21:19 AM EST
    you do, and the larger point.

    [ Parent ]
    It is important (none / 0) (#208)
    by facta non verba on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:37:31 AM EST
    to have transparency in an election and what happened tonight does not appear transparent in Lake County.

    Here are my questions:

    +What is the break in votes between Gary and the rest of Lake County?
    +Why weren't absentee ballots already counted? That's pretty standard procedure.
    +When did the precincts in the suburbs submit their tallies to the county seat?
    +Why was there a delay in reporting those votes once submitted?
    +What happened in Union County?
    +Also the vote count seemed to have stopped in Porter and LaPorte counties? Why?

    It's odd that pre-vote polls were so off in both states, now that could be they got the wrong mix of voters queried. I haven't looked at exit polling to see if it matches results but the exit polls for the past few elections have overestimated Obama by 4-5 points. Clearly NC is understandable given demographics. Clinton at the tipoff trailed 36-2 given 38% AA electorate and that 90% of the AA vote went to Obama.

    [ Parent ]

    That has been the case (none / 0) (#73)
    by madamab on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:07:32 AM EST
    since 2000. Or, if you count Chuck Hagel's extremely dubious win on his own company's voting machines, since 1996.

    I never thought I'd see the day when I'd wonder about whether Democrats were counting votes accurately.

    [ Parent ]

    It's beyond party at this point. (5.00 / 3) (#130)
    by citizen53 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:16:18 AM EST
    It's about the money.  Federal elections should be publicly financed, including the way people vote and the machines used.

    Are we that stupid as a people to insist?

    This includes the way we finance campaigns

    Who is this country supposed to belong to anyway?

    [ Parent ]

    it is tempting to say fraud (none / 0) (#125)
    by sancho on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:15:50 AM EST
    but it seems what happened is that whether by design or accident, the way the votes were counted and the television coverage played out made for maximum drama. i dont think there was any more fraud than usual. but obama's "concession" may have been quite a bit of calculated theater.

    if one wants to yell fraud, then one can talk about the way the dems handled michigan and florida and the mcgovern rules and the caucuses to swing the election. this is not fraud either but i dont think it is a good system. no question obama played it for all it was worth and hillary did not defend against this strategy.

    if obama wins in nov., then perhaps dean et. al.  knew what they were doing.

    the process stinks, though, and does not give me confidence that i should vote for its winner (obama, apparently).

    isn't it true that the largest party in america remains the non-voters? if so, i can see why that party is so appealing.

    [ Parent ]

    The mayor of Gary (5.00 / 6) (#61)
    by Iphie on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:04:58 AM EST
    is on the phone with CNN speaking for the entire county -- why isn't someone from the election board answering these questions? The mayor of Hammond spoke specifically about his city, but acknowledged that he couldn't answer for the late reporting of the entire county. How is it that the mayor of Gary can? Why does it seem like he's running the show? And why would he be involved with the counting and reporting of votes from other cities?

    I see Wolf and John King are having an equally difficult time understanding.

    That mayor of Hammond (5.00 / 7) (#69)
    by janarchy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:06:45 AM EST
    just said it looks like impropriety and corruption and he's not happy about it. On CNN, they asked him directly if he understood what the Mayor of Gary was talking about and he had no idea. He's not a happy bunny (but he's adorable and seems very smart).

    I liked him a lot... (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by citizen53 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:23:13 AM EST
    though I find him just smart, and he framed the issue correctly.

    This is Obama's backyard.

    I think it's well over for Clinton, barring a hail mary, though she would probably be a better candidate and effective president.

    It will be an effort to be enthusiastic about Obama because I see him no different than any of them, more interested in the money and getting elected by creating illusions of what they represent, while acting in ways that are to the contrary.

    [ Parent ]

    What I want to know is where (none / 0) (#89)
    by tnjen on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:10:26 AM EST
    Else in the country has this happened? I have the feeling I know and it makes me sick.

    [ Parent ]
    No clue. (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by janarchy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:14:16 AM EST
    But Mayor McDermott was questioning things loudly and honestly. He was not buying the excuses from Clay as to what was taking so long -- and was very upset that it was looking so bad for the entire county since it's got a history of voter fraud in the past (his words) and it makes them all look bad. He kept saying that his districts votes were turned in at 7:30 pm and there was no reason for anything to be going this late etc. It was just wild. I've never seen anything like it.

    [ Parent ]
    Chicago... (none / 0) (#105)
    by OrangeFur on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:12:50 AM EST
    ... definitely had a reputation for this many decades ago. I think a mayoral election in Miami was overturned a few years ago too, though I forget for what reason.

    [ Parent ]
    Wow. (5.00 / 4) (#71)
    by Iphie on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:07:20 AM EST
    The mayor of Gary is quite condescending and doesn't like to be questioned -- surprising given his candidate. "I've answered this like three or four times already." vs. "C'mon guys, I've answered like eight questions already."

    Give the man a waffle! (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by MarkL on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:09:10 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Dueling mayors... (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Stellaaa on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:10:15 AM EST
    I will take the Hammond Mayor, hands down vs. the Bufoon.  

    [ Parent ]
    Be nice (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Steve M on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:10:30 AM EST
    It's late.  Maybe he just wants to eat his waffle.

    [ Parent ]
    Hammond Mayor -- "something corrupt" (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:09:48 AM EST
    A listener to CNN. Can anyone confirm?

    I heard it. (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by janarchy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:11:19 AM EST
    The mayor of Hammond was fighting the mayor of Gary and questioning everything Clay was saying. It was not pretty.

    [ Parent ]
    Finally Senator Clinton Prevails !!! (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by TalkRight on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:09:54 AM EST
    what a crap thing to deny her a victory night..

    These two mayors clearly do not (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by oculus on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:10:18 AM EST
    agree with each other.  The Clinton supporter is rolling his eyes while the Gary mayor is speaking via phone.

    John King his map and playing with it:  was he previously a TV weather forecaster?  Poor guy.

    but...I want a map like that (none / 0) (#109)
    by Stellaaa on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:13:10 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    With an LCD projector, (none / 0) (#185)
    by reynwrap582 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:29:51 AM EST
    a Wiimote, a couple modifications and the right software, you can have your very own!

    [ Parent ]
    If she plans on suspending the campaign... (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by OrangeFur on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:10:37 AM EST
    ... it may be that enough superdelegates called today that she felt like it was impossible. I would have liked to see her win West Virginia, Kentucky, and Puerto Rico, though.

    If that's the case, I guess she can sit on the sidelines while Obama and McCain fight it out. If something really bizarre happens (Obama is abducted by aliens, or is found with the proverbial dead woman or live boy), she can step in.

    I hope she continues, but respect her decision either way.

    It would have been great to have universal health care. Maybe next decade.

    It would have been great to have the first (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Manuel on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:16:00 AM EST
    woman president.  Maybe this century before my little girl grows old.

    [ Parent ]
    2012 (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by dissenter on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:19:45 AM EST
    Obama will go down in a ball of fire and the DNC will be cleared out.

    I expect Donna Brazille to be the star of the next McCain campaign commercial. Latinos and blue collar workers will flock to him

    [ Parent ]

    WTF Just Happened in Lake? (5.00 / 5) (#113)
    by BDB on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:14:03 AM EST
    Is the Mayor of Gary trying to make everything look like fraud until the last minute because his answers were very fishy.  But now probably sufficient vote for Clinton to win Indiana.  CNN just called it for her.

    I can't decide if the Mayor of Gary is a buffoon or if they realized they were going to get caught and stopped.  Or both.

    The Mayor of Hammond seems like such a decent fellow.  I hope he runs for higher office.

    One more possibility (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by BDB on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:14:37 AM EST
    hold onto the vote so it couldn't be called until after 1 a.m. eastern time.  

    [ Parent ]
    That's what it seems to me.... (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by tsteels2 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:16:38 AM EST
    They knew Senator Clinton had probably won so they just wanted to mess with her.  Well, can we stop with the voter fraud/Obama conspiracy and just call the Gary, IN major a big ol' jerk with whipped cream on top?


    [