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Gary Mayor Predicting Obama Surprise

Update: Obama has 65% of Lake County, Hillary 35%. John King says 17,000 vote difference statewide between them and Obama could win. 44% of Lake County is in, 95% of statewide vote.

Mayor of Hammond says every Mayor in Lake County except the Mayor of Gary endorsed Hillary.

Update: Wow. The Mayor of Hammond, also in Lake County, just said on Larry King Live that Hillary won Hammond by 600 votes and they turned the votes in at 6:30 and Lake County didn't release the votes. The votes they are releasing now are from Gary. They also failed to report the votes of four other cities in the county that she won. He says the mayors know the results and don't know why Lake County refused to release the vote count.

Here are the cities and towns in Lake County. Obama did well in the machine vote in Gary, Merriville and East Chicago. Hillary won Hammond Whiting, Schererville, Crown Point and some of the suburban cities in the southern part of the county. More...

Update: First Lake County results in. 28% of the vote is in and Obama has 75% of it. They are only 20,000 votes apart and her lead is down to 51%.

***

This is just amazing. First, a Fox reporter got inside where the votes are being counted in Gary. She says they told her it's just a slow count of the 11,000 absentee ballots. She said they are using elderly volunteers to count so it's going slow.

Now, according to the Washington Post, here's Gary's Mayor, an Obama supporter:

Gary Mayor Rudy Clay said just now that it might take a while yet to finish counting the vote in Lake County, which includes Gary, and said tonight his city had turned out so overwhelmingly for Barack Obama that it might just be enough to close the gap with Hillary Rodham Clinton.

"Let me tell you, when all the votes are counted, when Gary comes in, I think you're looking at something for the world to see," Clay, an Obama supporter, said in a telephone interview from Obama's Gary headquarters. "I don't know what the numbers are yet, but Gary has absolutely produced in large numbers for Obama here."

Clay said the results were late coming in from Lake County because of the large numbers of absentee ballots that had to be counted -- about 11,000. Under local practice, all of the cartridges from voting machines in Gary and nearby East Chicago are first collected at the local airport before being driven to the county headquarters to be tallied with the results from the rest of the county, he said. He said there were no major technical problems holding up the count.

"It takes a little time. We want to be sure that every vote is counted fair and right," he said. "I just talked to the director out there and they are working like junkyard dogs to get that done as soon as possible. They are taking some time but I told them to do it right. That's what taking the time."

Why did they wait to start counting the absentee ballots?

Here's more:

n March, Clay predicted the race would come down to Gary, telling the Northwest Indiana and Illinois Times that tonight on CNN, "They are going to point at Indiana and say Hillary Clinton is leading by one point but Gary ain't come in yet."

Clay himself was deeply involved in get out the vote efforts this afternoon, going door to door to drum up anyone who hadn't yet voted, he said. A volunteer in the Obama office in Gary said that canvassers who went out today found that in some neighborhoods almost everyone reported having already cast an absentee ballot.

Comments closing, new thread is here.

< Obama Campaign Says Rush Affected Indiana Vote | CNN: Hillary Wins Indiana >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Um, election fraud???? (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:53:45 PM EST
    I wonder if there will be any precincts where they get 100% turnout. . .

    Election Fraud is EXACTLY what Limbaugh is guilty (none / 0) (#59)
    by Denni on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:09:18 PM EST
    of... and I hope it catches up to him and his 'operation chaos' buffoons.

    Parent
    Ok, whatever (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:10:38 PM EST
    In some states (none / 0) (#91)
    by Denni on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:26 PM EST
    you have to sign some sort of pledge (in an article I read, Ohio was one of those states, it's where the election fraud charges began).  You have to swear to support the party.

    One of Limbaugh's supporters signed on his pledge, 'for one day only'.  Sheesh.

    Parent

    That would (none / 0) (#101)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:17:32 PM EST
    make Rush's supporter the perpetrator a fraud... and a moron on so many levels beginning with listening to Rush....

    Parent
    LOL, now we DEFINITELY agree on that! (none / 0) (#128)
    by Denni on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:24:59 PM EST
    I don't know why anyone listens to the guy.  The pundits have said that it's tough to prove the fraud case.  You'd think human decency would prevent Limbaugh from doing what he's done.

    Parent
    still not fraud! n/t (none / 0) (#146)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:29:02 PM EST
    well then - Obama is guilty of election fraud too (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by Josey on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:35:55 PM EST
    Obama began his "Dems for a day" a year ago!
    Not reaching out to voters to join the Dem Party and working to elect Democrats. No - just "Dems for a day" in the primaries and caucuses to elect Obama.
    It's the height of arrogance and hypocrisy for the Obama campaign and Obamabots to whine about Limbaugh "breaking the law."

    Parent
    Um those people-- if they exist -- (none / 0) (#68)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:11:33 PM EST
    that voted because Rush "told them to" still voted -- that isn't fraud.

    Parent
    In that case... (none / 0) (#99)
    by reynwrap582 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:16:57 PM EST
    It's the democratic party that is guilty of election fraud for not requiring closed primaries.  If you're legal to vote, it's a legal vote, regardless of who told you to do it.  This is just a horribly managed primary system gone terribly wrong.

    Parent
    I must be too sleepy (none / 0) (#78)
    by Chimster on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:12:54 PM EST
    I don't get it. What am I missing? Where's the fraud? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to catch BO's campaign committing fraud, but I'm not sure I see the connection. Help!

    Parent
    We aren't saying it is fraud -- yet (none / 0) (#92)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:48 PM EST
    but it looks bad. And if it is fraud, and they are smart, they will "let" her win by 2% so there will be no recount and the msm can pretend that Obama held her to 2%.

    Parent
    The fraud would be (none / 0) (#242)
    by daryl herbert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:01:09 AM EST
    hang back on releasing results until everyone else goes first.

    Then you know how many votes you need to cook up in order to deliver the state to Obama.

    You don't want to make too many fake votes, because that makes it easier to catch you. But too few, and you can't win.

    So you hang back.  Wait until the other precincts turn in their results.

    Then you know exactly how many votes you have to forge.  And you stay at it until you reach that number.  And a few more, for good measure.  Then you announce that you've got your results.

    That's classic Daley Machine fraud.  IN is next door to IL.

    A fraudster might not try to get enough votes so that Obama wins the state outright.  But he might forge just enough votes that Obama gets 1-2 more pledged delegates than he otherwise would.

    Parent

    Ok. Great. Now they're stealing the election. (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by derridog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:54:55 PM EST
    That will certainly help Obama in the GE.

    If They Steal the Election (5.00 / 9) (#14)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:52 PM EST
    I'm done.  Not only with Obama, but if the party lets him get away with it, with the party.  

    Parent
    Maybe it's because Gary Indiana has a large (1.00 / 1) (#79)
    by COgator95 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:13:01 PM EST
    African American population and Obama is getting 9 out of 10 of these votes??? To say this is election fraud is just appalling and expected from republicans NOT people that consider themselves members of the Democratic party. Some of the ranting posts on this site are profoundly silly, stupid and just plain crazy that I have to double check whether or not my browser was inadvertently directed to freerepublic.com and not talkleft.com.

    Parent
    it's not appalling to say it (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by tnjen on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:50 PM EST
    it's appalling that we're WATCHING it happen.

    Parent
    What's that town again? (1.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:24:37 PM EST
    Harare Indiana...break out the concertina wire.

    Parent
    This guy does Obama no favors (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:18 PM EST
    New politics?

    Daley allusions will come back into vogue.

    Now THAT could lose him the nomination (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:44 PM EST
    Nah (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:02 PM EST
    It just looks bad.

    Parent
    You think TINS will diary this? (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:00:35 PM EST
    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:01:23 PM EST
    No.

    Parent
    andgarden, when you're right, you're right (5.00 / 0) (#33)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:29 PM EST
    and if this duck is a duck (and I'm not saying it is, but it sure looks that way right now) then I hope he gets fried.

    Parent
    That's the way things work here in Lake County. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:37 PM EST
    East Chicago politics would put Daley to shame.  Gary isn't far behind.  Hammond not so much, but somewhat in the ballpark.  

    Every local election it is the same old thing.  This is nothing new to us who live here and/or have worked in politics locally.

    However, East Chicago is a Latino stronghold and Mayor Pabey is supporting Clinton, so any votes stolen there will be hers.  

    Parent

    Yeah, I can tell. (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Teresa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:03:57 PM EST
    Harare Indiana (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:21:53 PM EST
    lol

    Parent
    stinks (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by OldCoastie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:30 PM EST
    stinks bad.

    wow can we throw out the (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by TruthMatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:34 PM EST
    calls of election fraud more easily around here or what?

    wow

    Let's just say suspicious (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by Florida Resident on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:54 PM EST
    I'm not calling it fraud... (5.00 / 5) (#32)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:23 PM EST
    Not yet, anyway.

    However, do you remember what the accusations were when Hillary pulled off that upset in New Hampshire?

    Parent

    Heh (4.50 / 2) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:58:43 PM EST
    It looks bad you must admit.

    But no, election fraud charges are on hold.

    It just looks really bad.

    Parent

    it does (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by TruthMatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:01:13 PM EST
    but Union County has 0 votes in, and it will go to Hillary, and right now when its this close those votes matter too

    why no calls of fraud from Union County, obviously if I were the Clinton camp I would maybe double and triple check the count.

    but with all the cries of fraud already, when Obama supporters are being bashed in another thread for their conspiracies theories with Rush?

    Parent

    What can I tell you (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:13 PM EST
    People are emotional.

    But the Mayor of Gary is an idiot.

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#42)
    by TruthMatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:04:50 PM EST
    I think he saw the counts saw something big could happen and is holding it to build drama (and costing me sleep)

    ugh..... still think Hillary takes it but Obama did REALLY well, holding her to 2 points is awesome.

    Parent

    For someone that two weeks ago was (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Florida Resident on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:09:06 PM EST
    suppose to win by double digits in Indiana yeah he did well.

    Parent
    i thought i was crazy (5.00 / 0) (#100)
    by mulletov cocktails on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:17:30 PM EST
    for remembering the msm meme after PA that Barack was up big in Indiana.

    Parent
    Not just to build suspense, (none / 0) (#243)
    by seeker on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:13:25 AM EST
    but also to see how many votes they need.

    Parent
    I'll bet Union County (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:06:53 PM EST
    has a negligible total number of votes.

    Everyone knows that Chicago has a history of dirty politics, especially in terms of counting votes. I'm not saying that it's dirty now, just that this isn't pulled out of nowhere.

    Parent

    As a Chicagoan..... (none / 0) (#191)
    by Tommyd on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:40:39 PM EST
    How does the political machine in Chicago cross a state border....   This is just absurd....  Where is the power that a Democratic precinct captain can influence votes across a state line...????  
    Gary is just a strong Obama area obviously with the demographics of the city....   Chicago has nada to do with it....   geeeshhh....

    Parent
    Political deals are made every day (none / 0) (#234)
    by vicsan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:54:41 PM EST
    in this country. ESPECIALLY in Chicago. Gary borders Chicago. Who knows what Daley did to secure his guy Indiana? It could be anything. I do know that Daley promised Mr. Hope the Presidency if he didn't run against him in his last election. Google it. My guess is Daley offered up some big bucks, $$$$$$$$$$$, for a favor. So simple.

    Parent
    Interesting to see (none / 0) (#60)
    by riddlerandy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:09:41 PM EST
    how the enforcement of the voter ID law works here

    I agree that it looks funny, and that that is all that can be concluded right now.  Anyone else remember Fear in Loathing on the Campaign Trail, and the Ohio primary/Cleveland?

    Parent

    And they call (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by janarchy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:44 PM EST
    the Clintons Rovian?

    Shades of the Daley machine - vote early, vote often. I wonder how many of the absentee voters live in the morgue?

    Why would the mayor (5.00 / 6) (#9)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:56 PM EST
    be commenting on ballot counting? If there is a statement that needs to be made, shouldn't someone like the election commissioner make it?

    remember the 2000 election (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by sancho on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:01:51 PM EST
    when bush went on tv after florida had been called for gore and announced, with his brother (the gov. of florida) and his father (ex head of the cia and former president) that the count was wrong and that his brother, who should know, had assured him that bush would win? and he did. eventually.

    i thought that night that elections in america would never be the same again. i think i was right.

    "apparent" victory indeed.

    maybe mccain ought to be scared after all.

    Parent

    Not to mention Bush's cousin called it for him for (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by derridog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:07:55 PM EST
    Fox News.

    Parent
    Well it is certain now... (5.00 / 0) (#12)
    by TN Dem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:36 PM EST
    I have lost my party.

    No, our party betrayed us (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Xeno on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:10:53 PM EST
    I was prepared for an Obama win, but not for outright fraud. Now I am literally sick to my stomach.

    Way to go, Howard Dean. You have destroyed the Democratic Party from the top down.

    Parent

    wow (none / 0) (#115)
    by progrocks on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:21:45 PM EST
    hate to see how you would react towards something that actually had proof, i think you would just explode

    Parent
    Proof? (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by TN Dem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:38:49 PM EST
    You mean like the proof we saw in 2000? How about 2004?
    Seems proof is in the eye of the beholder. Close yours if you will; mine are wide open.

    Parent
    I've had this feeling before... (5.00 / 7) (#18)
    by tandem5 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:58:57 PM EST
    about 8 years ago.

    well, (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by OldCoastie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:07 PM EST
    Obama says he is a Chicago politician.

    This is Lake County, Indiana (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:22 PM EST
    Politics here is like a step back in time to the 40s and 50s.  It isn't just Gary, some of the other town are the same way.   I've worked in local campaigns and was just amazed at how the game was played. East Chicago is run the same way and since Mayor Pabey is a big Hillary supporter I'd suspect many absentee ballots were cast for her in that town.

     We had an election result in East Chicago thrown out a few years ago because of fraud.

    A few years before yet someone discovered a trunk filled with absentee ballots -- all filled out.  They were never counted and nobody was ever prosectued.

    Check out the documentary King of Steeltown for more on this "relic" of old politics.

    How many shades of stupid (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by liminal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:30 PM EST
    can the Gary Mayor be?  The combination of his remarks and actions fails the smell test, but even assuming everything is on the up and up, the mayor virtually telegraphed old-fashioned electoral fraud.  In Indiana!  My god: how much more ammunition can he give the GOP to get future anti-Democratic "voter ID" laws passed.  

    It's just outrageous.

    I guess Indiana was a must win state, (5.00 / 8) (#23)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:32 PM EST
    after all!

    Too wierd. (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:00:19 PM EST
    I just don't get why it started so LATE. And even WITH a late count of the absentee ballots why did the rest of the votes have to wait on the absentee ballots? It makes no sense.

    Clearly though if the current margins in that county hold then Obama will win. There will be some questions about the tally dellay. I've been away from my comp for an hour, anything on the news about this?


    Because If You Start It Late (5.00 / 8) (#38)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:03:26 PM EST
    you know how many votes you need to win.

    Parent
    Ding, ding, ding (5.00 / 5) (#41)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:04:35 PM EST
    Seriously, look for the precincts that report 100% turnout. Go back and check the books too. . .

    Parent
    Now, I'm starting to wonder about some of (5.00 / 4) (#64)
    by Teresa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:10:24 PM EST
    that caucus stuff I read about and ignored.

    Parent
    But Will Anyone Do That? (none / 0) (#55)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:08:30 PM EST
    They would do it (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Kathy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:13:13 PM EST
    if the positions were changed.  There would be maps and reports and all kinds of digging going on over at Certain Blogs who will just gleefully chuckle tomorrow and say, "a win is a win, and ps: WWTBJQ?"

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:43:55 PM EST
    Certain Blogs lost their credibility on election fraud long before this primary.

    The ballots could be hand-counted by a panel consisting of Gandhi, Mother Theresa, and St. Peter, and if the Democrat lost someone would blame Diebold within seconds.

    Parent

    Well, Ghandi and Mother Theresa are okay (none / 0) (#240)
    by lookoverthere on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:58:48 PM EST
    but that Peter guy is pr!ck.

    Parent
    Of course (none / 0) (#77)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:12:51 PM EST
    You think camp Clinton will take this laying down if there is real evidence of foul play? They could run for miles if they could dig something foul up.

    Parent
    I Think They Will Be Under Enormous Pressure (5.00 / 4) (#140)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:27:44 PM EST
    Not to accuse Obama of election fraud even if it develops circumstantial evidence that that occurred.

    Parent
    I've seen no evidence... (none / 0) (#158)
    by sweetthings on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:31:33 PM EST
    That enormous pressure scares Hillary one bit.

    If there was any fraud committed, they'll find it. The Clinton campaign has an army of lawyers on the ground. Many of the mayors involved are for Clinton. There will be no way to hide dirty laundry, if indeed there is any.

    Parent

    I hate to break it to you (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:37:38 PM EST
    but word on the street is that is exactly why she hasn't made a big to do about what went on in the TX caucuses.

    Parent
    Pressure doesn't - (none / 0) (#209)
    by liminal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:45:47 PM EST
    - but I'm pretty confident that she's a loyal Democrat, and I suspect the party could play on that loyalty.  

    Parent
    IIRC, they have affidavits from the TX caucuses (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:37:16 PM EST
    Plenty of them.

    You could look at this move, plus the bonus delegates today, as a warning not to play that card.

    Parent

    Oh I get it (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:11:40 PM EST
    I think it looks terrible. Like BTD said above this does Obama no favors. It would have been FINE from a spin/media/narrative perspective for Obama to have lost Indianna narrowly.

    I'm not saying it was fraud without more than some suspicious activity BUT IF it turns out to involve some corruption my main point is that there IS NO POINT to be corrupt here. This wasn't a state Obama needed to win or drop out or something.

    Parent

    The Democratic elites (5.00 / 6) (#103)
    by vicsan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:17:42 PM EST
    want Hillary OUT OF THE RACE before WV and KY. She will cream him in those 2 states and they know it. They want her out before that can happen.

    Parent
    She will probably win by even larger (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:22:28 PM EST
    margins after tonight.

    Parent
    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by wasabi on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:31:10 PM EST
    If they want him as the nominee, they will do there best to get the remainder of SDs to commit to Obama to reach the magic number.  When they force Clinton out, Fla and MI can be seated and then the rest of the states can have their "beauty contests".  No way do they want an active campaign in Kentucky or WV where he would lose bigtime.

    Parent
    Strange how the activists... (none / 0) (#239)
    by AX10 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:58:09 PM EST
    decry the party elites yet those same elites want
    their guy Obama.

    Parent
    This (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by sarissa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:10:18 PM EST
    smells so frickin bad :(

    Parent
    Chicago politics at its finest. (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by vicsan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:50 PM EST
    Who wants to bet Daley made a deal with Mr. Rudy Clay and they're digging up some dead people to vote for Barack or they're losing Hillary ballots? Either way, they are trying to steal this from Hillary to get her out of the race.

    Mayor of Hammond (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:05:23 PM EST
    Saying his city and other Lake County cities turned their vote totals in early.  Apparently the delay is almost solely caused by Gary.

    And that vote in is from Gary (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by BarnBabe on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:12:02 PM EST
    That is what CNN says. The 75% vote for BHO is from Gary. This really does have a bad aroma.

    Parent
    Mayor of Hammond (5.00 / 4) (#46)
    by OldCoastie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:06:08 PM EST
    says he turned his votes in at 730 local time and Hillary won by 600 votes but that has not yet been reported yet... CNN reporters are wondering why not...

    I think it was a setup for reporting votes (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by BarnBabe on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:06:18 PM EST
    I was watching the map thing and the first 29% came from Gary only. It gate Obama a 75% win. But, the part of the county that is for Hillary has not been reported in. I think this Mayor is grandstanding and having a good ol' time making the people wait. All attention on them. What, they have a backward county that can not count the votes while the rest of the state can? This does not look good at all. A Obama Mayor fooling around with the public. Yeah, the eyes of the world are on him and his 15 mins of fame.

    Rudy Clay, mayor of Gary does support (none / 0) (#118)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:22:12 PM EST
    Obama but the Obama camp are pretty angry at him.  Clay put his pictures up all over the place that was to have held an Obama rally.  Then when he was asked to remove them he refused.  So they had to move it to another place.  

    Parent
    I know I said this in the last thread (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by kayla on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:06:23 PM EST
    But really.  I am extremely surprised by these results.  I didn't expect her to win NC, but I thought she'd win Indiana by at least 6 points.  I mean, I didn't even doubt it for a second.  Crazy.  This morning Harold Ford Jr. was on Morning Joe and said that he thinks Obama will win both states and I thought he was talking crazy and he said it like he knew something I didn't know.

    Wtf?  How did this happen?  I really thought Hillary was shining these last couple of weeks.  Incredible.

    remember that closed door meeting (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:08:48 PM EST
    in NC yesterday that was so weird? Yeah, I'm going there.

    Parent
    What closed door meeting in NC? (none / 0) (#84)
    by vicsan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:14:02 PM EST
    I missed that story.

    Parent
    The mayor of Hammond (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:11:51 PM EST
    is questioning (though not overtly) why it took so long for Lake County to turn in their numbers. John King wants to know what the excuse is in Lake County turning in their numbers so late. John King brought up the issue of appearances and the integrity of the vote. Hammond is in Lake County (I think).

    Yes it is (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:16:21 PM EST
    Hammond mayor is with Hillary.  Other Lake County cities are mine - Hobart - whose mayor Snedecor is with Hillary:  East Chicago a Latino stronghold is lead by Mayor Pabey who supports Hillary: Lake Station: Griffith: Whiting -- mayor supports Hillary.  

    Parent
    So what's your local take on this? (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:19:08 PM EST
    I think there's a heavy burden of proof before accusing people of election fraud, and we did expect Gary to go for Obama.

    But certainly appearances are bad. Sometimes they are for perfectly innocent reasons. But I'm curious as to what your take is?

    Parent

    Gary will go HUGE for Obama (none / 0) (#207)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:45:22 PM EST
    And the voting system here is antiquated.  I'd imagine the people counting the votes are over 60 or 70 so it is slow going.  I also think that there were a some machine problems that allowed a few polling places in the area to stay open later.  AND we are on a different time than the rest of Indiana - an hour behind.

    That said, this county is corrupt. Nothing would surprise me.  Gary, East Chicago and Hammond are the worst offenders.  But Schererville and Merrillville aren't too far behind.

    I think it is jumping the gun to accuse OBAMA himself of fraud. But here in Lake County nothing would suprise me from the local politicos.

     And, for the record, I worked hard for Obama these last few weeks here in Hobart.  So if you want to discount my view since I am part of the hated camp here.

    I feel if fraud happened it wasn't just for Obama's benefit.  I'd examine the totals and absentee ballots from Hammond and E.C. too.


    Parent

    Excuse me. I'm over sixty... (5.00 / 0) (#237)
    by BGP on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:55:54 PM EST
    and I'm not exactly tottery and slow. I think that's ageism.

    Parent
    Some people in this thread are jumping the shark (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:03 PM EST
    But it looks bad. You don't think it looks bad? EVEN KOS thinks it looks bad.

    This (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by sas on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:18 PM EST
    smells like something very fishy here, and the longer it goes the worse it smells.

    This is not, not, not the "new politics" (5.00 / 5) (#94)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:16:11 PM EST
    and again is so counter to Obama's message that it is more short-sighted gaming for the nomination, only to then lose the election.

    I cannot describe the extent of the loathing I feel for Obama's campaign doing this.  We are the party that had Florida stolen, that had Ohio stolen.  Then we turn around and negate Florida and Michigan -- and that's not enough.  Now negate Indiana, too.

    I want no part of this sort of politics.  I had said that if I had to leave the prez box blank on the ballot, I would work downticket for Dems.  Now, with this after Brazile so brazenly explaining the takeover of the big tent, I don't think that I can have anything to do with Dems.

    Absolutely sickening (5.00 / 5) (#111)
    by otherlisa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:19:14 PM EST
    I never ever thought I would feel this way about the Democratic Party.

    I'm beginning to think that this really is all about the money and nothing else. About getting Obama's fundraising machine. About a  very corrupt leadership holding onto power any way they can.

    My god. Four more years of Republican rule coming up.

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by moll on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:50:07 PM EST
    I never ever thought I would feel this way about the Democratic Party.

    There has been a civil war in the Democratic party.

    They think they can pull in enough Libertarians and Independents to make do without all the people they are throwing out - the old core of the Democratic party.

    If they are successful with what they are doing tonight, we'll have two Republican parties: the socially conservative Republicans (evangelicals) and the frat boy Republicans (Libertarians).

    But where will the Democrats go?

    Parent

    3rd party time....I'm done with the (5.00 / 0) (#172)
    by thereyougo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:34:33 PM EST
    new Democratic party, and the Republican lites of the party.

    Parent
    Not the Obama campaign (3.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Korha on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:18:26 PM EST
    Even if it's true, the Obama campaign clearly has nothing to do with some rogue small-city mayor committing voter fraud. It makes no sense and they would never get away with it.

    Parent
    Yeah, because no one ... (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Robot Porter on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:23:28 PM EST
    every gets away with voter fraud.  Even if it's blatant.

    /sarcasm

    Parent

    It's good... (none / 0) (#183)
    by sar75 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:38:22 PM EST
    ...that we all know already that fraud has been committed.  

    Parent
    They got away with a lot in the caucuses (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:23:55 PM EST
    from reports in those states.  And reread what the Gary mayor said.  All are part of the Obama campaign.

    Parent
    !!?!??! Please, someone tell me... (1.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Denni on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:27:41 PM EST
    what do you think they will do with the PRESS PRESENT and watching what's going on!?!?!

    This guy is bragging about his 'get out the vote' and knocking on doors, and it's been turned into a criminal act.  

    shocking.

    Parent

    Because (5.00 / 4) (#170)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:34:10 PM EST
    when the press is present they ensure that everything runs smoothly and lawfully? Were you awake in 2000? Do you think that the press was somehow kept away from those proceedings? What does the press have to do with it?

    Parent
    One thing (none / 0) (#241)
    by cal1942 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:59:40 PM EST
    to remember is that today's 18-22 year old voters were between the ages of 10 and 14 on 2000.

    That's the "wisdom" of the new Democratic Party.

    Parent

    I never thought I would (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:35:06 PM EST
    meet someone who used exclamations more than me!  Congratulations.

    Parent
    Jeez (none / 0) (#177)
    by Korha on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:36:26 PM EST
    There was no systematic voter fraud in the caucuses either. I see you might be one of those people who cry about voter fraud!!11!1 every time the election results don't go their way.

    Parent
    the caucus itself is (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by sancho on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:39:01 PM EST
    a form of voter fraud since not everyone can vote in them. no matter who wins, it is not democratic. some eligible and willing voters are cut out.

    Parent
    Not to mention (5.00 / 0) (#200)
    by janarchy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:43:48 PM EST
    voter intimidation, coercion and bullying tactics. A friend of mine helped man the polls in WA State and she told me that the Obama supporters were aggressive, obnoxious and more than a little questionable in their behaviour. And she was (and is) a Kucinich supporter, not a Clinton supporter.

    Parent
    Korha (5.00 / 0) (#212)
    by cal1942 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:46:23 PM EST
    No offense but what possible proof do you
    have that "the Obama campaign clearly has nothing to do" with this situation.

    I have no proof otherwise but do you know who David Axelrod is?

    And "never get away with it"; it's been gotten away with far too many times.


    Parent

    it's called machine politics (5.00 / 1) (#228)
    by moll on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:51:59 PM EST
    Even if it's true, the Obama campaign clearly has nothing to do with some rogue small-city mayor committing voter fraud. It makes no sense and they would never get away with it.

    East Chicago, IN, which is famous as the hangout of Chicago criminals from way back, is connected to the same Chicago machine that propelled Obama up.

    What, you didn't really think he's a Presidential candidate because of his experience, did you?

    Parent

    Man (5.00 / 4) (#104)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:17:47 PM EST
    If there is any funny business going on, it is not helpful for Obama.  At the end of the day, it really makes little difference whether he wins Indiana by 12 votes or loses it by 12 votes.

    There is a potential narrative here - corrupt black mayor steals decisive state for Obama - that is tailor-made for Fox News.

    At this point (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Korha on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:20:58 PM EST
    I'm half-hoping Obama loses Indiana because if there really is voter fraud going on that puts him over the top, it's going to play out just like you said. That's bad news.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#131)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:25:52 PM EST
    Why does he need to win?  If he loses Indiana by 2% the night obviously gets played as a win for him.  The narrative should be about a good night for Obama, not about the possibility of voter fraud.

    Parent
    Exactly... (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:28:14 PM EST
    ... it's the kind of thing that will energize her supporters.

    Parent
    He doesn't need to win (none / 0) (#151)
    by Korha on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:30:16 PM EST
    But, of course, if there is in fact no voter fraud then as an Obama supporter I'd hope that he does win Indiana--I mean, why not?

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#182)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:37:58 PM EST
    provided everyone is prepared to stipulate that there was no voter fraud, sure.  If the circumstances look bad, personally I would just let it go.  It makes so little difference.

    Parent
    Various thoughts (5.00 / 5) (#113)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:20:58 PM EST
    1. The OFB went nuts after NH and NV and discredited themselves (and maybe vote fraud charges in the general, where we know the Republicans practice it).

    2. I'd be a lot more confident that I won't have to "get over it" again, if Obama supporters hadn't released that doctored video of the "War Room" in IN (that then got onto the A list and went viral). That's a Nixonian tactic, way beyond the 3AM ad, etc.

    3. The whole voting system in IN is a mess: Insecure machines and purged rolls. Ick.

    4. It doesn't matter that the press is watching the absentee ballots get counted. What matters -- read the WaPo story, its right in there -- is how secure the voting machine cartridges are. Read the WaPo story:

    nder local practice, all of the cartridges from voting machines in Gary and nearby East Chicago are first collected at the local airport before being driven to the county headquarters to be tallied

    Note that the OFB went nuts in NH, but IIRC, there wasn't the centralized vulnerability of that airport run there.

    Also Unlike in NH (none / 0) (#214)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:46:27 PM EST
    Some parts of Indiana use machines with no paper trail.

    Parent
    More numbers... (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:24:55 PM EST
    From http://www.nwi.com/blogs/election/

    The next bunch has the two about even, so Obama keeps the 18,000 vote lead he had countywide.

    316 precincts out of 561 reporting.

    Almost all of Gary and Merrillville and portion of Munster primarily make up these numbers, plus Lake Station, East Chicago:

    Lake county
    Democratic candidates
    President of the
    United States
    Barack Obama 46,759
    Hillary Clinton 25,100

    Indiana's entire elections machinery reeks of ineptitude. The SOS website is hopelessly behind.

    why did my post get deleted? (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by andreww on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:26:03 PM EST
    I just said - "kind of like when Obama got zero votes in some Harlem areas"  What is wrong with this?  Why did I get deleted?

    All Obama supporters... (1.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Alec82 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:26:49 PM EST
    ...appear to be in the process of deletion.  

    Parent
    I don't believe that.... (none / 0) (#143)
    by andreww on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:28:50 PM EST
    I often disagree with TL - but seldom find Jeralyn or BTD to be unfair as it relates to removing comments.

    Parent
    Only ones who don't understand how to be gracious (none / 0) (#147)
    by Marvin42 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:29:28 PM EST
    in victory. I mean come on, show some basic social skills.

    Parent
    Calling Obama votes "voter fraud"... (none / 0) (#153)
    by Alec82 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:30:44 PM EST
    ...is hardly being gracious, which is largely what I am responding to.  

     Deleting all such responses is...something.  Not free and fair debate, but something.

    Parent

    No you are pretty much being an a*****e (none / 0) (#163)
    by Marvin42 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:32:24 PM EST
    Sorry, but you are. I was going to post something before, but obviously you can't see it.

    Parent
    You are suspended (none / 0) (#166)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:33:02 PM EST
    You clearly do not know how to behave on a night like this.

    Come back tomorrow.

    Parent

    Off topic (none / 0) (#162)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:32:19 PM EST
    That's not "all" you said (none / 0) (#176)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:36:23 PM EST
    and pretending otherwise is just silly season.

    Parent
    If you check the trash cans & bags (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by rockinrocknroll on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:29:57 PM EST
    of that county, I wonder how many legit ballots cast for Hillary would be found?

    There should be something (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by Kathy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:31:20 PM EST
    about gloating added to the rules.

    Jeesh, I'm glad TL is rooting out these a-holes.  It's just so spirit killing to have to listen to their dribble.  Actually, I can't take it anymore.  See ya later, and thanks for doing the good work.

    The TX affidavits are hanging fire (5.00 / 0) (#159)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:31:49 PM EST
    That would be an interesting call to make -- connecting those dots, or not.


    Frankly, I think they both cheated in TX (none / 0) (#174)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:35:15 PM EST
    What to you suppose happened in Webb County? I'll bet Henry Cuellar knows. . .

    Parent
    KO looks like he has a lot more gray hair (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:44:07 PM EST
    I hope I have contributed to that by not watching COuntdown any more.

    Somebody wants Obama in the WH, and it's not me (5.00 / 1) (#217)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:47:04 PM EST
    How can the party ever expect the members to come together in November? The constant accusations that Hillary is "stealing" the election seems another one of those reverse operations that are so Republican, and have dominated the Obama campaign.

    If the entire country went for a re-vote on the same day late June, I'd be willing to bet big that Hillary would win by a landslide.

    I've had such a bad feeling about Obama for months now, that this doesn't surprise me, but it sure is beginning to scare me.


    If Hillary loses in IN (4.20 / 5) (#3)
    by TalkRight on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:54:35 PM EST
    This party will NEVER HEAL

    How is he any different from Nutter in PA!??! (4.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Denni on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:08:40 PM EST
    Why is he suspicious, but Nutter was just a hard working Clinton warrior (even in light of the issue about the voting machines)?  

    There's no hanky panky going on.  The press is even present.  The vote is just close.

    Philly precincts are watched closely (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:09:54 PM EST
    Though I will say, the last time there was ballot fraud, it concerned the absentees. . .

    Anyway, Obama WON Philly.

    Parent

    Yeah (2.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Korha on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:16:18 PM EST
    I really hope the election results tonight are not tainted.

    But, regardless of whether Clinton wins Indiana or not, the nomination race is over. After tonight Obama has insurmountable leads in pledged delegates, the superdelegates, and the popular vote. There's no chance his campaign is going to implode after surviving all the stuff he went through in March and April.

    I'm starting to come around to BTD's view on an Obama/Clinton unity ticket. That's some really, really powerful symbolism right there.  

    Don't tell (5.00 / 7) (#129)
    by sas on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:25:07 PM EST
    me the nomination fight is over, because it isn't for me.  There are states to vote, and Florida and Michigan must be decided.  Then there is the matter of the popular vote.

    I loathe Obama and his campaign, and if he's it, then I'm voting for someone else anyway.

    And if the Democratic party never heals, that's no skin off my back. I can't stand what they have become.  Cheating, lying , ...ugh.

    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 8) (#152)
    by sonya on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:30:24 PM EST
    This ain't hardly over.  I don't care what Howard Dean and Donna Brazile say, there will be no legitimate nominee without Florida and Michigan being counted.    

    I'm a black female member of the creative class, and I approve this message.  

    Parent

    yee-haw! :D you just lifted my spirits. (none / 0) (#187)
    by kangeroo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:39:13 PM EST
    thank you for that.

    Parent
    Sorry (none / 0) (#168)
    by Korha on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:33:58 PM EST
    Even if you include FL and MI and allocate all the remaining votes along the scenario most favorable for Clinton Obama's popular vote lead is still insurmountable. And his campaign's not going to implode.

    Sorry you won't vote for Obama in the general election. Hopefully you'll come around when Clinton endorses Obama and works her heart out for him (as she said she would do tonight).

    Parent

    then why is he still (5.00 / 0) (#204)
    by sancho on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:44:23 PM EST
    short on delegates? he cant get the nom. through the primary process. not enough votes in oregon or anywhere else for him to win. he can only win by gaming the superdelegates (and disenfranchising michigan and florida). clearly, he is willing to win that way. he has not yet established what he wont do to win. the most ruthless dem. candidate since lbj (but he tops lbj b/c lbj gave out in '68). i'm thinking of lbj's '48 texas senate race as the analogy for obama's current campaign.

    Parent
    Here's the problem (5.00 / 1) (#218)
    by sonya on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:47:09 PM EST
    Obama. can't. beat. McCain.

    It's just that simple. Not enough white people will vote for him in November against McCain.  That's just the way things are.  It would be a stretch for Obama even if he didn't have the baggage of Rezko, Wright and Ayers, but he does have that baggage making a win impossible.  

    The question is this:  Does the democratic party want to win the presidency?

    I suspect the answer is no.  As long as Clinton is not on the ballot in November, they'll be happy to lose.

    To me, Obama is the democratic version of Clarence Thomas.  Both benefited from beltway affirmative action to further the agendas of others.


    Parent

    Don't worry... (none / 0) (#193)
    by sar75 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:41:19 PM EST
    ...I expect that there aren't enough votes left out there to make up the 17,000 lead she has right now with 95%.

    So, Clinton will still win a resounding victory in Indiana that should convince the remaining superdelegates to endorse her and countless others (and pledged delegates) to change their minds.

    Parent

    Are (none / 0) (#203)
    by sarissa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:44:22 PM EST
    you high?

    Parent
    No... (none / 0) (#211)
    by sar75 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:46:07 PM EST
    ...I was kidding.

    Parent
    I'm an American woman at mid life... (1.00 / 4) (#105)
    by Denni on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:17:57 PM EST
    I understand Chicago politics.  The thread before, voters were castigated as 'conspiracy nuts' when it came to the Limbaugh issue. Now, with the press PRESENT and watching the count, Obama is smeared as being part of some conspiracy to 'steal' an election.  

    The press is helping them now?  C'mon, guys.  This is over the top.  

    I fault Penn, Wolfson, and Garin for Clinton's losses.  I think Penn should pay Clinton.

    I'm an American woman at mid-life (5.00 / 6) (#137)
    by Kathy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:27:06 PM EST
    who finds your baiting absolutely tedious and worse yet, silly.  That this passes the smell test for you is gobsmacking, but then again, Obama supporters have proven that they, like their candidate, are willing to throw any and every democrat ideal out the window when it comes to making sure--by hook or crook--The One is positioned for November.

    My only consolation will be watching two things happen: (1) Your guy being eviscerated by the rightwing nuts who won't care about preserving even a modicum of respect for the dem party and (2) The complete and utter betrayal you will feel when you realize what a shifty, contorted straw candidate you have propped up, because he has already made it clear he is willing to compromise any and every dem value in order to get what he wants.

    And he will never get it.  Not without my help, and not without the help of a lot of folks here who represent the core demographic that has won every president every election since George Washington.

    Parent

    I don't plan on voting for Obama. (5.00 / 0) (#238)
    by AX10 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:57:24 PM EST
    Let these young college kids and the latte drinkers fund his campaign.


    Parent
    If Obama has ANYTHING to recommend him, (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:38:28 PM EST
    I wouldn't care if he won;however, he is the emptiest, weakest candidate I have seen in 40 years---on the Democratic side. He is comparable to Bush. The media are fawning over him now, but they cannot prop him up until November.

    Parent
    ... I went through this in 1999-2000. (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:39:53 PM EST
    There was no question that Bush was an incompetent fop--a pure media confabulation. And yet, the media lauded him to the skies. Fool me twice? no thanks.

    Parent
    Again, the press being present... (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:39:34 PM EST
    ... for the counting of the physical, absentee ballots is a diversion.

    What's really important is whether the voting machine cartridges which, for some unknown reason, are consolidated at the airport (!), are secured. Somehow, I doubt it.

    Parent

    Will she be writing a concession speech? (1.00 / 2) (#236)
    by halstoon on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:55:31 PM EST
    She won't be on TV in the AM. What gives you guys? What's happening to your 'fighter'?

    Is he the guy (none / 0) (#11)
    by DJ on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:56:42 PM EST
    who had the school buses take all the high school students to vote early?

    Google: (none / 0) (#16)
    by OxyCon on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:58:40 PM EST
    "Cook County, Illinois"

    Fox (none / 0) (#27)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:01:08 PM EST
    is saying [it looks like Obama is going to pull ahead in IN by several thousand votes.  He's winning the county 75/25 so far?  This is a decisive turnaround... possible to win both to losing both, whoo boy...]  If Obama pulls out this win that means he got 41% of the white vote, not as much as they had projected to do.

    Rove is expecting that supers will declare and her money will dry up.  If Obama made the deal with them to pay Clinton campaign debt, I wonder if their is an agreement as to how long she stays in.

    One of these days I would love to see a map of the counties won, not the states but just the counties.  The most states are one thing but being able to put together all of CNNs state maps in to one national would be interesting.

    Fox is the only network actually reporting (none / 0) (#106)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:18:17 PM EST
    news!  What is wrong with this picture?

    Parent
    Maybe it was their turn? (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:41:51 PM EST
    Somebody has to do it!

    Parent
    funny, but i have always felt this same (none / 0) (#39)
    by english teacher on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:03:40 PM EST
    way about mo.  same deal:  st. louis county comes in last and gave obama just enough to win it.  color me cynical.

    Lake Co Mayor (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by tnjen on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:06:46 PM EST
    ...says he turned his numbers in at 6.30 and so did other mayors in Lake Co. He also said Hammond (his city) went Clinton by 600 votes!!! He's added a whole list of little towns that were turned in and that she won them!

    This is soooo CROOKED.

    Parent

    Anyone know (none / 0) (#43)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:05:12 PM EST
    what is the percentage of difference between two candidates that would trigger an automatic recount? (I can't believe I have to ask this question.)

    Look the mayor of East Chicago (none / 0) (#85)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:14:06 PM EST
    is equally crooked than the mayor of Gary and he supports Hillary. They had a Democratic candidate meeting recently, but only the candidates endorsed by Mayor Pabey got to enter.  

    Recounts might bring up problems in both camps.  

    Parent

    funny, i just looked at your history of (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by kangeroo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:31:32 PM EST
    comments, and why oh why am i not surprised to discover that you're an obama supporter?  thanks for projecting your ethics onto us and assuming we'd be fine with fraud as long as it benefits our candidate.  i feel sick.

    Parent
    I didn't mean that fraud was ok (none / 0) (#235)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:55:13 PM EST
    and I clearly identified myself as an Obama supporter in another post in this thread. And in my comment history I have not baited or trolled or been banned or suspended.  

    I'm not endorsing election fraud, if it happened.  I'm just saying this county has a history of dirty politics.  And those in power here don't even consider it "dirty" politics.  I'm just amazed that this primary is shining a light on this corrupt part of the woods.

    If there were fraud in this election, by the way, I'd be looking at the absentee ballots.  That's how they have done it in the past.

    Parent

    so what's the point? (none / 0) (#136)
    by kangeroo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:26:53 PM EST
    it's not like i'm okay with fraud as long as they're clinton votes.  if what you say is true, then i'd rather have recounts in both camps and have both results be legitimate.

    Parent
    I know a lawyer who specializes in (none / 0) (#54)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:08:26 PM EST
    ballot challenges.. maybe we should call him up.

    the campaigns have (none / 0) (#67)
    by Jeralyn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:11:11 PM EST
    plenty of lawyers.

    Parent
    I was thinking of Obama. (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:13:16 PM EST
    Oh, snap! (none / 0) (#230)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:52:09 PM EST
    First good laugh I've had tonight!

    Parent
    I do hope Hillary has people there (none / 0) (#62)
    by vicsan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:10:09 PM EST
    watching what is going on? Does she? Does anyone know?

    Is there (none / 0) (#76)
    by sas on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:12:50 PM EST
    a fix going on here

    He's pulling an Andrew (none / 0) (#83)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:13:42 PM EST
    Isn't that the Obama supporter who won't be quiet because he looking for his 15 minutes?

    It seems this guy is looking for his.

    What other counties are still out? One person mentioned Union.

    That's a pretty good satire. (none / 0) (#86)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:14:44 PM EST
    Not even the most deluded OFB member thinks that Republicans cast votes for Obama because they liked him---not only because of that.
    Thanks for eliciting a bitter chuckle.

    Drudge Report (none / 0) (#87)
    by sarissa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:14:52 PM EST
    is apparently calling the nomination!?

    We may not know the "winner' for 10 days (none / 0) (#95)
    by Ben Masel on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:16:14 PM EST
    Withn the Voter-ID mess, I imagine a lot of provisionals, who'll have 10 days to chase down photo-IDs.

    I'm guessing an edge fore Clinton, as the students with parents' State licenses are about to head on break,, or graduating.

    Fox says that (none / 0) (#121)
    by MichaelGale on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:23:11 PM EST
    6,000 ballots from Lake county will not be counted tonight.

    All my posts have been deleted... (none / 0) (#124)
    by Alec82 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:24:04 PM EST
    ...because?

    Pat Buchanan just said (none / 0) (#125)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:24:34 PM EST
    Hillary should drop out

    Pat Buchanan... (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:25:35 PM EST
    ... can go [something].

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:26:17 PM EST
    He probably has some shirts that need ironing.

    Parent
    What was Pat's reasoning? (none / 0) (#145)
    by americanincanada on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:28:55 PM EST
    /

    Parent
    Obama Will Be Easier for His Party to Beat (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:32:58 PM EST
    Seriously, there's going to be a full press on Clinton tomorrow because the party doesn't want to face up to the elephant in the room that is the non-AA working class vote, the media hate her, and the right-wing seeing the white vote numbers Obama got tonight will be licking its lips and pushing him.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:39:29 PM EST
    Pat Buchanan is many things, but I don't believe he is a Republican hack.  The party is really not his party any more.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#195)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:41:57 PM EST
    he's a very funny, nice, personable guy. He's also everything everyone says about him. . .

    Parent
    Oh, I'm sure (none / 0) (#205)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:44:42 PM EST
    that he's quite the man's man.

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#208)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:45:39 PM EST
    I wasn't implying anything about that. He just has. . .interesting ideas about race.

    Parent
    You're only permitting pro-Clinton posts... (none / 0) (#139)
    by Alec82 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:27:43 PM EST
    ...and if you wish to admit that, fine, but don't call it anything else.

    I will cuss at you (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:29:57 PM EST
    so that I will be deleted if you feel better, but it's sort of hard to do it on this site.  

    Parent
    You are suspended (none / 0) (#167)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:33:58 PM EST
    Come back tomorrow.

    Parent
    that's not true (none / 0) (#179)
    by Jeralyn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:37:24 PM EST
    i'm the one monitoring the thread. I have deleted comments accusing Obama of vote fraud and comments calling him names. And some comments with false information and insulting other commenters. Civility is required.

    Parent
    Clinton has (none / 0) (#144)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:28:52 PM EST
    cancelled her morning show appearances.  Speculation is rampant on Fox.  Is she going to go through a W Va win? and then bow out gracefully? (this would lead Obama in to an Oregon win) etc.....

    Well (none / 0) (#192)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:41:19 PM EST
    Unless she's going to announce something tomorrow, I don't think it would make much sense for her to cancel those appearances if she still plans to compete in WV.  I dunno.

    Parent
    IIRC She Did That Once Before (none / 0) (#196)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:42:43 PM EST
    She may not want to be asked about Gary.

    FWIW, I just got hit up for a contribution by the campaign.

    Parent

    BTD...I must say you called it (none / 0) (#161)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:32:12 PM EST
    The media darling thing is way over the edge tonight.  

    of couse it is! (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Josey on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:42:52 PM EST
    Hillary is taking on the oil companies - corporate sponsors of the corporate media!
    No one messes with the precious oil companies.

    Hillary can't quit now before WV and KY and prove Brazile correct - the Dem Party hates white people.

    Did you see Brazile on Nightline tonight? Smiling with sugar dripping from her lips - she wants to unite the party and looking forward to the WV and KY primaries.

    Not a word of apology for insulting millions of Democrats tonight!! And she sounded just like Rev. Wright - Obama's pastor and mentor for 20 years.

    Parent

    The process isn't winner take all (none / 0) (#169)
    by zzyzx on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:34:03 PM EST
    How much difference is there really between a 20k Clinton win and a 20k Obama win?

    More Lake County Votes Coming In (none / 0) (#181)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:37:45 PM EST
    Now with 56% reporting, Clinton remains 15k votes ahead.

    is CNN's site behind? (none / 0) (#199)
    by dws3665 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:43:19 PM EST
    they have 95% total precincts and a 16.6K Clinton lead (unless my math is wrong, which is not outside the realm of possibility).

    Parent
    So Clinton is finished now (none / 0) (#197)
    by jcsf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:42:48 PM EST
    I'm sad.  Really, I'm sad.  I'm an Obama supporter, but I have this wave of grief.  Seeing her fight so hard, this woman who sacrificed so much, to help her husband make the 90's better place for all of us...

    Why am I sad?  

    Because you have just been thrown under the bus (5.00 / 1) (#215)
    by BarnBabe on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:46:29 PM EST
    In the Democratic Bus which does not need us anymore. This is going to be really big you know. It will split the Democrats big time. BTW, if this Lake County is typical of this promised change a coming, I think we had better hope for a miracle.

    Parent
    Because (5.00 / 3) (#216)
    by dissenter on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:46:49 PM EST
    Thirty percent of her supporters will vote for McCain including me.

    Parent
    That was Obama's number, I thought (none / 0) (#220)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:48:19 PM EST
    Wasn't Hillary's number in the 40's?  I could be wrong.

    Parent
    Probably (5.00 / 0) (#227)
    by dissenter on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:51:23 PM EST
    Either way, I'm out of the party and I'm not voting for Obama. I will support dems down ballot that I like but I'm done. I've never voted for a republican. Initially I was just going to skip the presidential race and move down but now, I am actually gonna vote for McCain.

    Wow.

    Parent

    More than that (none / 0) (#225)
    by tnjen on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:51:05 PM EST
    ...this is unforgivable. It's beyond McCain. I won't call fraud since that's taboo at the moment but I will say I now question the integrity every single primary and caucus result.

    Parent
    Because if she lost... (5.00 / 2) (#224)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:50:50 PM EST
    ... it wasn't for the right reasons?

    Because the media has been relentlessly unfair to her from the very beginning?

    This has been the worst media hatchet job on a candidate since Al Gore in 2000, and it may have been worse than that.

    Parent

    Just breathe is in my head, by Anna Nalick (none / 0) (#210)
    by jcsf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:45:53 PM EST
    Yeah we walk through the doors, so accusing their eyes
    Like they have any right at all to criticize,
    Hypocrites. You're all here for the very same reason

    But you can't jump the track, we're like cars on a cable,
    And life's like an hourglass, glued to the table
    No one can find the rewind button now
    Sing it if you understand.
    and breathe, just breathe
    woah breathe, just breathe,
    Oh breathe, just breathe,
    Oh breathe, just breathe.

    Parent

    Because you feel... (none / 0) (#213)
    by sweetthings on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:46:23 PM EST
    like a great candidate just lost? (which, for the record, might not be accurate)

    Perfectly natural reaction in my book. Contrary to what some in the blogosphere would have you believe, it's quite possible to like both candidates...even if you like one just a little bit more.

    Parent

    Not just that, I think (5.00 / 1) (#229)
    by jcsf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:52:08 PM EST
    Watching, obsessing, so much about this election, and having Hillary Clinton being the main "female" role model, of 20's - in the 90's - I CARE about her.  It's silly - I don't KNOW her - but I care about her, love her, in some small way, as silly as that sounds.

    Parent
    Not so fast (none / 0) (#231)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:52:18 PM EST
    Obama doesn't have 2209, and it's time to start asking for investigations in Nevada, Washington, Texas, and any other state that had even the slightest appearance of fraud.  Even if the Mayor of Gary "gave" her the "win" to avoid trouble, she deserves the margin she actually got and they should have a recount.


    Parent
    I think she going to hang on (none / 0) (#219)
    by gandy007 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:47:25 PM EST
    Fox reports 95% of the vote in with a 17,000 Clinton lead.

    In the last 5% she has only lost 4,000 votes of her lead.

    We can only pray!

    Maybe (none / 0) (#226)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:51:09 PM EST
    Or maybe they are smart enough to dribble out some good Clinton news so it's not so obvious.

    Parent
    joe andrew and his new company DIEBOLD???!!! (none / 0) (#221)
    by karen for Clinton on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:49:39 PM EST
    ya think?

    MSNBC is planning Obama's (none / 0) (#223)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:50:48 PM EST
    VP, his second great test...apparently his first great test was winning the nomination.  he has done that according to them.

    Comments closing (none / 0) (#232)
    by Jeralyn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:52:19 PM EST
    new thread on this topic is here.

    He's it!! (none / 0) (#233)
    by halstoon on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:53:34 PM EST
    That according to TL's favorite network.

    YEAH--FOX PROJECTS HILLARY WINNER !!!! (none / 0) (#244)
    by gandy007 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:22:48 AM EST
    The irony is delicious!

    Go Hillary Go

    Voted Hillary but will not vote Obama.... (none / 0) (#245)
    by josephm on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:54:02 AM EST
    I voted Hillary, but I will not vote for Obama in the General Election. If Democratic Party picks Obama as a nominee and Obama loses in the General Election, I will laugh at Obama and the Democratic Party so hard. I was going to give them my vote for the white house this year, but they don't want to take it.....