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Gary Mayor Predicting Obama Surprise

Update: Obama has 65% of Lake County, Hillary 35%. John King says 17,000 vote difference statewide between them and Obama could win. 44% of Lake County is in, 95% of statewide vote.

Mayor of Hammond says every Mayor in Lake County except the Mayor of Gary endorsed Hillary.

Update: Wow. The Mayor of Hammond, also in Lake County, just said on Larry King Live that Hillary won Hammond by 600 votes and they turned the votes in at 6:30 and Lake County didn't release the votes. The votes they are releasing now are from Gary. They also failed to report the votes of four other cities in the county that she won. He says the mayors know the results and don't know why Lake County refused to release the vote count.

Here are the cities and towns in Lake County. Obama did well in the machine vote in Gary, Merriville and East Chicago. Hillary won Hammond Whiting, Schererville, Crown Point and some of the suburban cities in the southern part of the county. More...

Update: First Lake County results in. 28% of the vote is in and Obama has 75% of it. They are only 20,000 votes apart and her lead is down to 51%.

***

This is just amazing. First, a Fox reporter got inside where the votes are being counted in Gary. She says they told her it's just a slow count of the 11,000 absentee ballots. She said they are using elderly volunteers to count so it's going slow.

Now, according to the Washington Post, here's Gary's Mayor, an Obama supporter:

Gary Mayor Rudy Clay said just now that it might take a while yet to finish counting the vote in Lake County, which includes Gary, and said tonight his city had turned out so overwhelmingly for Barack Obama that it might just be enough to close the gap with Hillary Rodham Clinton.

"Let me tell you, when all the votes are counted, when Gary comes in, I think you're looking at something for the world to see," Clay, an Obama supporter, said in a telephone interview from Obama's Gary headquarters. "I don't know what the numbers are yet, but Gary has absolutely produced in large numbers for Obama here."

Clay said the results were late coming in from Lake County because of the large numbers of absentee ballots that had to be counted -- about 11,000. Under local practice, all of the cartridges from voting machines in Gary and nearby East Chicago are first collected at the local airport before being driven to the county headquarters to be tallied with the results from the rest of the county, he said. He said there were no major technical problems holding up the count.

"It takes a little time. We want to be sure that every vote is counted fair and right," he said. "I just talked to the director out there and they are working like junkyard dogs to get that done as soon as possible. They are taking some time but I told them to do it right. That's what taking the time."

Why did they wait to start counting the absentee ballots?

Here's more:

n March, Clay predicted the race would come down to Gary, telling the Northwest Indiana and Illinois Times that tonight on CNN, "They are going to point at Indiana and say Hillary Clinton is leading by one point but Gary ain't come in yet."

Clay himself was deeply involved in get out the vote efforts this afternoon, going door to door to drum up anyone who hadn't yet voted, he said. A volunteer in the Obama office in Gary said that canvassers who went out today found that in some neighborhoods almost everyone reported having already cast an absentee ballot.

Comments closing, new thread is here.

< Obama Campaign Says Rush Affected Indiana Vote | CNN: Hillary Wins Indiana >
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  • Display: Sort:
    There's something rotten. (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:53:18 PM EST
    In the state of... Gary. Denmark. I smell something fishy. And I'm an Obama guy.

    This is not, not, not the "new politics" (5.00 / 5) (#94)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:16:11 PM EST
    and again is so counter to Obama's message that it is more short-sighted gaming for the nomination, only to then lose the election.

    I cannot describe the extent of the loathing I feel for Obama's campaign doing this.  We are the party that had Florida stolen, that had Ohio stolen.  Then we turn around and negate Florida and Michigan -- and that's not enough.  Now negate Indiana, too.

    I want no part of this sort of politics.  I had said that if I had to leave the prez box blank on the ballot, I would work downticket for Dems.  Now, with this after Brazile so brazenly explaining the takeover of the big tent, I don't think that I can have anything to do with Dems.

    [ Parent ]

    Absolutely sickening (5.00 / 6) (#111)
    by otherlisa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:19:14 PM EST
    I never ever thought I would feel this way about the Democratic Party.

    I'm beginning to think that this really is all about the money and nothing else. About getting Obama's fundraising machine. About a  very corrupt leadership holding onto power any way they can.

    My god. Four more years of Republican rule coming up.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree (5.00 / 2) (#222)
    by moll on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:50:07 PM EST
    I never ever thought I would feel this way about the Democratic Party.

    There has been a civil war in the Democratic party.

    They think they can pull in enough Libertarians and Independents to make do without all the people they are throwing out - the old core of the Democratic party.

    If they are successful with what they are doing tonight, we'll have two Republican parties: the socially conservative Republicans (evangelicals) and the frat boy Republicans (Libertarians).

    But where will the Democrats go?

    [ Parent ]

    3rd party time....I'm done with the (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by thereyougo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:34:33 PM EST
    new Democratic party, and the Republican lites of the party.

    [ Parent ]
    Not the Obama campaign (3.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Korha on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:18:26 PM EST
    Even if it's true, the Obama campaign clearly has nothing to do with some rogue small-city mayor committing voter fraud. It makes no sense and they would never get away with it.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, because no one ... (5.00 / 3) (#122)
    by Robot Porter on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:23:28 PM EST
    every gets away with voter fraud.  Even if it's blatant.

    /sarcasm

    [ Parent ]

    It's good... (none / 0) (#183)
    by sar75 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:38:22 PM EST
    ...that we all know already that fraud has been committed.  

    [ Parent ]
    They got away with a lot in the caucuses (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:23:55 PM EST
    from reports in those states.  And reread what the Gary mayor said.  All are part of the Obama campaign.

    [ Parent ]
    !!?!??! Please, someone tell me... (1.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Denni on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:27:41 PM EST
    what do you think they will do with the PRESS PRESENT and watching what's going on!?!?!

    This guy is bragging about his 'get out the vote' and knocking on doors, and it's been turned into a criminal act.  

    shocking.

    [ Parent ]

    Because (5.00 / 5) (#170)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:34:10 PM EST
    when the press is present they ensure that everything runs smoothly and lawfully? Were you awake in 2000? Do you think that the press was somehow kept away from those proceedings? What does the press have to do with it?

    [ Parent ]
    One thing (none / 0) (#241)
    by cal1942 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:59:40 PM EST
    to remember is that today's 18-22 year old voters were between the ages of 10 and 14 on 2000.

    That's the "wisdom" of the new Democratic Party.

    [ Parent ]

    I never thought I would (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:35:06 PM EST
    meet someone who used exclamations more than me!  Congratulations.

    [ Parent ]
    Jeez (none / 0) (#177)
    by Korha on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:36:26 PM EST
    There was no systematic voter fraud in the caucuses either. I see you might be one of those people who cry about voter fraud!!11!1 every time the election results don't go their way.

    [ Parent ]
    the caucus itself is (5.00 / 2) (#186)
    by sancho on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:39:01 PM EST
    a form of voter fraud since not everyone can vote in them. no matter who wins, it is not democratic. some eligible and willing voters are cut out.

    [ Parent ]
    Not to mention (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by janarchy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:43:48 PM EST
    voter intimidation, coercion and bullying tactics. A friend of mine helped man the polls in WA State and she told me that the Obama supporters were aggressive, obnoxious and more than a little questionable in their behaviour. And she was (and is) a Kucinich supporter, not a Clinton supporter.

    [ Parent ]
    Korha (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by cal1942 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:46:23 PM EST
    No offense but what possible proof do you
    have that "the Obama campaign clearly has nothing to do" with this situation.

    I have no proof otherwise but do you know who David Axelrod is?

    And "never get away with it"; it's been gotten away with far too many times.


    [ Parent ]

    it's called machine politics (5.00 / 2) (#228)
    by moll on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:51:59 PM EST
    Even if it's true, the Obama campaign clearly has nothing to do with some rogue small-city mayor committing voter fraud. It makes no sense and they would never get away with it.

    East Chicago, IN, which is famous as the hangout of Chicago criminals from way back, is connected to the same Chicago machine that propelled Obama up.

    What, you didn't really think he's a Presidential candidate because of his experience, did you?

    [ Parent ]

    How is he any different from Nutter in PA!??! (4.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Denni on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:08:40 PM EST
    Why is he suspicious, but Nutter was just a hard working Clinton warrior (even in light of the issue about the voting machines)?  

    There's no hanky panky going on.  The press is even present.  The vote is just close.

    [ Parent ]

    Philly precincts are watched closely (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:09:54 PM EST
    Though I will say, the last time there was ballot fraud, it concerned the absentees. . .

    Anyway, Obama WON Philly.

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah (2.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Korha on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:16:18 PM EST
    I really hope the election results tonight are not tainted.

    But, regardless of whether Clinton wins Indiana or not, the nomination race is over. After tonight Obama has insurmountable leads in pledged delegates, the superdelegates, and the popular vote. There's no chance his campaign is going to implode after surviving all the stuff he went through in March and April.

    I'm starting to come around to BTD's view on an Obama/Clinton unity ticket. That's some really, really powerful symbolism right there.  

    [ Parent ]

    Don't tell (5.00 / 7) (#129)
    by sas on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:25:07 PM EST
    me the nomination fight is over, because it isn't for me.  There are states to vote, and Florida and Michigan must be decided.  Then there is the matter of the popular vote.

    I loathe Obama and his campaign, and if he's it, then I'm voting for someone else anyway.

    And if the Democratic party never heals, that's no skin off my back. I can't stand what they have become.  Cheating, lying , ...ugh.

    [ Parent ]

    Exactly (5.00 / 9) (#152)
    by sonya on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:30:24 PM EST
    This ain't hardly over.  I don't care what Howard Dean and Donna Brazile say, there will be no legitimate nominee without Florida and Michigan being counted.    

    I'm a black female member of the creative class, and I approve this message.  

    [ Parent ]

    yee-haw! :D you just lifted my spirits. (none / 0) (#187)
    by kangeroo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:39:13 PM EST
    thank you for that.

    [ Parent ]
    Sorry (none / 0) (#168)
    by Korha on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:33:58 PM EST
    Even if you include FL and MI and allocate all the remaining votes along the scenario most favorable for Clinton Obama's popular vote lead is still insurmountable. And his campaign's not going to implode.

    Sorry you won't vote for Obama in the general election. Hopefully you'll come around when Clinton endorses Obama and works her heart out for him (as she said she would do tonight).

    [ Parent ]

    then why is he still (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by sancho on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:44:23 PM EST
    short on delegates? he cant get the nom. through the primary process. not enough votes in oregon or anywhere else for him to win. he can only win by gaming the superdelegates (and disenfranchising michigan and florida). clearly, he is willing to win that way. he has not yet established what he wont do to win. the most ruthless dem. candidate since lbj (but he tops lbj b/c lbj gave out in '68). i'm thinking of lbj's '48 texas senate race as the analogy for obama's current campaign.

    [ Parent ]
    Here's the problem (5.00 / 1) (#218)
    by sonya on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:47:09 PM EST
    Obama. can't. beat. McCain.

    It's just that simple. Not enough white people will vote for him in November against McCain.  That's just the way things are.  It would be a stretch for Obama even if he didn't have the baggage of Rezko, Wright and Ayers, but he does have that baggage making a win impossible.  

    The question is this:  Does the democratic party want to win the presidency?

    I suspect the answer is no.  As long as Clinton is not on the ballot in November, they'll be happy to lose.

    To me, Obama is the democratic version of Clarence Thomas.  Both benefited from beltway affirmative action to further the agendas of others.


    [ Parent ]

    Two pottentially big words: (4.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:29:34 PM EST
    Tony Rezko.

    The Rezko defense team this afternoon rested its case in his political corruption trial, after the defendant decined to take the stand on his own behalf. After questioning Rezko extensively to ascertain whether he fully understood his waiver of that right and implications thererof, Federal Judge Amy St. Eve gave the jury the rest of the week off so she and both counsels can discuss her instructions to that jury, and set closing arguments to commence at 8:30m Monday morning.  The jury could get the case as early as later that afternoon.

    If that jury returns a guilty verdict, then look for the media to revisit in detail and ad nauseum Obama's 17-year relationship with that Chicago political wheeler-dealer.

    [ Parent ]

    Don't worry... (none / 0) (#193)
    by sar75 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:41:19 PM EST
    ...I expect that there aren't enough votes left out there to make up the 17,000 lead she has right now with 95%.

    So, Clinton will still win a resounding victory in Indiana that should convince the remaining superdelegates to endorse her and countless others (and pledged delegates) to change their minds.

    [ Parent ]

    Are (none / 0) (#203)
    by sarissa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:44:22 PM EST
    you high?

    [ Parent ]
    No... (none / 0) (#211)
    by sar75 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:46:07 PM EST
    ...I was kidding.

    [ Parent ]
    Um, election fraud???? (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:53:45 PM EST
    I wonder if there will be any precincts where they get 100% turnout. . .

    Election Fraud is EXACTLY what Limbaugh is guilty (none / 0) (#59)
    by Denni on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:09:18 PM EST
    of... and I hope it catches up to him and his 'operation chaos' buffoons.

    [ Parent ]
    Ok, whatever (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:10:38 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    In some states (none / 0) (#91)
    by Denni on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:26 PM EST
    you have to sign some sort of pledge (in an article I read, Ohio was one of those states, it's where the election fraud charges began).  You have to swear to support the party.

    One of Limbaugh's supporters signed on his pledge, 'for one day only'.  Sheesh.

    [ Parent ]

    That would (none / 0) (#101)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:17:32 PM EST
    make Rush's supporter the perpetrator a fraud... and a moron on so many levels beginning with listening to Rush....

    [ Parent ]
    LOL, now we DEFINITELY agree on that! (none / 0) (#128)
    by Denni on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:24:59 PM EST
    I don't know why anyone listens to the guy.  The pundits have said that it's tough to prove the fraud case.  You'd think human decency would prevent Limbaugh from doing what he's done.

    [ Parent ]
    still not fraud! n/t (none / 0) (#146)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:29:02 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    well then - Obama is guilty of election fraud too (5.00 / 3) (#175)
    by Josey on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:35:55 PM EST
    Obama began his "Dems for a day" a year ago!
    Not reaching out to voters to join the Dem Party and working to elect Democrats. No - just "Dems for a day" in the primaries and caucuses to elect Obama.
    It's the height of arrogance and hypocrisy for the Obama campaign and Obamabots to whine about Limbaugh "breaking the law."

    [ Parent ]
    Um those people-- if they exist -- (none / 0) (#68)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:11:33 PM EST
    that voted because Rush "told them to" still voted -- that isn't fraud.

    [ Parent ]
    In that case... (none / 0) (#99)
    by reynwrap582 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:16:57 PM EST
    It's the democratic party that is guilty of election fraud for not requiring closed primaries.  If you're legal to vote, it's a legal vote, regardless of who told you to do it.  This is just a horribly managed primary system gone terribly wrong.

    [ Parent ]
    I must be too sleepy (none / 0) (#78)
    by Chimster on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:12:54 PM EST
    I don't get it. What am I missing? Where's the fraud? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to catch BO's campaign committing fraud, but I'm not sure I see the connection. Help!

    [ Parent ]
    We aren't saying it is fraud -- yet (none / 0) (#92)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:48 PM EST
    but it looks bad. And if it is fraud, and they are smart, they will "let" her win by 2% so there will be no recount and the msm can pretend that Obama held her to 2%.

    [ Parent ]
    The fraud would be (none / 0) (#242)
    by daryl herbert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:01:09 AM EST
    hang back on releasing results until everyone else goes first.

    Then you know how many votes you need to cook up in order to deliver the state to Obama.

    You don't want to make too many fake votes, because that makes it easier to catch you. But too few, and you can't win.

    So you hang back.  Wait until the other precincts turn in their results.

    Then you know exactly how many votes you have to forge.  And you stay at it until you reach that number.  And a few more, for good measure.  Then you announce that you've got your results.

    That's classic Daley Machine fraud.  IN is next door to IL.

    A fraudster might not try to get enough votes so that Obama wins the state outright.  But he might forge just enough votes that Obama gets 1-2 more pledged delegates than he otherwise would.

    [ Parent ]

    Ok. Great. Now they're stealing the election. (5.00 / 7) (#4)
    by derridog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:54:55 PM EST
    That will certainly help Obama in the GE.

    If They Steal the Election (5.00 / 11) (#14)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:52 PM EST
    I'm done.  Not only with Obama, but if the party lets him get away with it, with the party.  

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe it's because Gary Indiana has a large (1.00 / 1) (#79)
    by COgator95 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:13:01 PM EST
    African American population and Obama is getting 9 out of 10 of these votes??? To say this is election fraud is just appalling and expected from republicans NOT people that consider themselves members of the Democratic party. Some of the ranting posts on this site are profoundly silly, stupid and just plain crazy that I have to double check whether or not my browser was inadvertently directed to freerepublic.com and not talkleft.com.

    [ Parent ]
    it's not appalling to say it (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by tnjen on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:50 PM EST
    it's appalling that we're WATCHING it happen.

    [ Parent ]
    What's that town again? (1.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:24:37 PM EST
    Harare Indiana...break out the concertina wire.

    [ Parent ]
    This guy does Obama no favors (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:18 PM EST
    New politics?

    Daley allusions will come back into vogue.

    Now THAT could lose him the nomination (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:44 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Nah (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:02 PM EST
    It just looks bad.

    [ Parent ]
    You think TINS will diary this? (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:00:35 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:01:23 PM EST
    No.

    [ Parent ]
    andgarden, when you're right, you're right (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:29 PM EST
    and if this duck is a duck (and I'm not saying it is, but it sure looks that way right now) then I hope he gets fried.

    [ Parent ]
    That's the way things work here in Lake County. (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:37 PM EST
    East Chicago politics would put Daley to shame.  Gary isn't far behind.  Hammond not so much, but somewhat in the ballpark.  

    Every local election it is the same old thing.  This is nothing new to us who live here and/or have worked in politics locally.

    However, East Chicago is a Latino stronghold and Mayor Pabey is supporting Clinton, so any votes stolen there will be hers.  

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah, I can tell. (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Teresa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:03:57 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Harare Indiana (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:21:53 PM EST
    lol

    [ Parent ]
    stinks (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by OldCoastie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:30 PM EST
    stinks bad.

    wow can we throw out the (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by TruthMatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:34 PM EST
    calls of election fraud more easily around here or what?

    wow

    I'm not calling it fraud... (4.85 / 7) (#32)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:23 PM EST
    Not yet, anyway.

    However, do you remember what the accusations were when Hillary pulled off that upset in New Hampshire?

    [ Parent ]

    Let's just say suspicious (4.75 / 4) (#24)
    by Florida Resident on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:54 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Heh (4.33 / 3) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:58:43 PM EST
    It looks bad you must admit.

    But no, election fraud charges are on hold.

    It just looks really bad.

    [ Parent ]

    it does (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by TruthMatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:01:13 PM EST
    but Union County has 0 votes in, and it will go to Hillary, and right now when its this close those votes matter too

    why no calls of fraud from Union County, obviously if I were the Clinton camp I would maybe double and triple check the count.

    but with all the cries of fraud already, when Obama supporters are being bashed in another thread for their conspiracies theories with Rush?

    [ Parent ]

    I'll bet Union County (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:06:53 PM EST
    has a negligible total number of votes.

    Everyone knows that Chicago has a history of dirty politics, especially in terms of counting votes. I'm not saying that it's dirty now, just that this isn't pulled out of nowhere.

    [ Parent ]

    As a Chicagoan..... (none / 0) (#191)
    by Tommyd on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:40:39 PM EST
    How does the political machine in Chicago cross a state border....   This is just absurd....  Where is the power that a Democratic precinct captain can influence votes across a state line...????  
    Gary is just a strong Obama area obviously with the demographics of the city....   Chicago has nada to do with it....   geeeshhh....

    [ Parent ]
    Political deals are made every day (none / 0) (#234)
    by vicsan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:54:41 PM EST
    in this country. ESPECIALLY in Chicago. Gary borders Chicago. Who knows what Daley did to secure his guy Indiana? It could be anything. I do know that Daley promised Mr. Hope the Presidency if he didn't run against him in his last election. Google it. My guess is Daley offered up some big bucks, $$$$$$$$$$$, for a favor. So simple.

    [ Parent ]
    What can I tell you (4.50 / 2) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:13 PM EST
    People are emotional.

    But the Mayor of Gary is an idiot.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree (none / 0) (#42)
    by TruthMatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:04:50 PM EST
    I think he saw the counts saw something big could happen and is holding it to build drama (and costing me sleep)

    ugh..... still think Hillary takes it but Obama did REALLY well, holding her to 2 points is awesome.

    [ Parent ]

    For someone that two weeks ago was (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by Florida Resident on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:09:06 PM EST
    suppose to win by double digits in Indiana yeah he did well.

    [ Parent ]
    i thought i was crazy (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by mulletov cocktails on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:17:30 PM EST
    for remembering the msm meme after PA that Barack was up big in Indiana.

    [ Parent ]
    Not just to build suspense, (none / 0) (#243)
    by seeker on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:13:25 AM EST
    but also to see how many votes they need.

    [ Parent ]
    Interesting to see (none / 0) (#60)
    by riddlerandy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:09:41 PM EST
    how the enforcement of the voter ID law works here

    I agree that it looks funny, and that that is all that can be concluded right now.  Anyone else remember Fear in Loathing on the Campaign Trail, and the Ohio primary/Cleveland?

    [ Parent ]

    And they call (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by janarchy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:44 PM EST
    the Clintons Rovian?

    Shades of the Daley machine - vote early, vote often. I wonder how many of the absentee voters live in the morgue?

    Why would the mayor (5.00 / 7) (#9)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:56 PM EST
    be commenting on ballot counting? If there is a statement that needs to be made, shouldn't someone like the election commissioner make it?

    remember the 2000 election (5.00 / 5) (#30)
    by sancho on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:01:51 PM EST
    when bush went on tv after florida had been called for gore and announced, with his brother (the gov. of florida) and his father (ex head of the cia and former president) that the count was wrong and that his brother, who should know, had assured him that bush would win? and he did. eventually.

    i thought that night that elections in america would never be the same again. i think i was right.

    "apparent" victory indeed.

    maybe mccain ought to be scared after all.

    [ Parent ]

    Not to mention Bush's cousin called it for him for (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by derridog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:07:55 PM EST
    Fox News.

    [ Parent ]
    Well it is certain now... (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by TN Dem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:36 PM EST
    I have lost my party.

    No, our party betrayed us (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Xeno on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:10:53 PM EST
    I was prepared for an Obama win, but not for outright fraud. Now I am literally sick to my stomach.

    Way to go, Howard Dean. You have destroyed the Democratic Party from the top down.

    [ Parent ]

    wow (none / 0) (#115)
    by progrocks on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:21:45 PM EST
    hate to see how you would react towards something that actually had proof, i think you would just explode

    [ Parent ]
    Proof? (5.00 / 2) (#185)
    by TN Dem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:38:49 PM EST
    You mean like the proof we saw in 2000? How about 2004?
    Seems proof is in the eye of the beholder. Close yours if you will; mine are wide open.

    [ Parent ]
    I've had this feeling before... (5.00 / 9) (#18)
    by tandem5 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:58:57 PM EST
    about 8 years ago.

    Not just 8 years ago (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by owenaprhys on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:05:50 PM EST
    Remember in 2004 when Ken Blackwell said he and Diebold would deliver Ohio for Bush, and then after massive voter fraud Ohio went Bush?

    [ Parent ]
    well, (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by OldCoastie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:07 PM EST
    Obama says he is a Chicago politician.

    This is Lake County, Indiana (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:22 PM EST
    Politics here is like a step back in time to the 40s and 50s.  It isn't just Gary, some of the other town are the same way.   I've worked in local campaigns and was just amazed at how the game was played. East Chicago is run the same way and since Mayor Pabey is a big Hillary supporter I'd suspect many absentee ballots were cast for her in that town.

     We had an election result in East Chicago thrown out a few years ago because of fraud.

    A few years before yet someone discovered a trunk filled with absentee ballots -- all filled out.  They were never counted and nobody was ever prosectued.

    Check out the documentary King of Steeltown for more on this "relic" of old politics.

    How many shades of stupid (5.00 / 6) (#22)
    by liminal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:30 PM EST
    can the Gary Mayor be?  The combination of his remarks and actions fails the smell test, but even assuming everything is on the up and up, the mayor virtually telegraphed old-fashioned electoral fraud.  In Indiana!  My god: how much more ammunition can he give the GOP to get future anti-Democratic "voter ID" laws passed.  

    It's just outrageous.

    I guess Indiana was a must win state, (5.00 / 9) (#23)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:32 PM EST
    after all!

    Chicago politics at its finest. (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by vicsan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:50 PM EST
    Who wants to bet Daley made a deal with Mr. Rudy Clay and they're digging up some dead people to vote for Barack or they're losing Hillary ballots? Either way, they are trying to steal this from Hillary to get her out of the race.

    Mayor of Hammond (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:05:23 PM EST
    Saying his city and other Lake County cities turned their vote totals in early.  Apparently the delay is almost solely caused by Gary.

    And that vote in is from Gary (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by BarnBabe on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:12:02 PM EST
    That is what CNN says. The 75% vote for BHO is from Gary. This really does have a bad aroma.

    [ Parent ]
    Mayor of Hammond (5.00 / 4) (#46)
    by OldCoastie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:06:08 PM EST
    says he turned his votes in at 730 local time and Hillary won by 600 votes but that has not yet been reported yet... CNN reporters are wondering why not...

    I think it was a setup for reporting votes (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by BarnBabe on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:06:18 PM EST
    I was watching the map thing and the first 29% came from Gary only. It gate Obama a 75% win. But, the part of the county that is for Hillary has not been reported in. I think this Mayor is grandstanding and having a good ol' time making the people wait. All attention on them. What, they have a backward county that can not count the votes while the rest of the state can? This does not look good at all. A Obama Mayor fooling around with the public. Yeah, the eyes of the world are on him and his 15 mins of fame.

    Rudy Clay, mayor of Gary does support (none / 0) (#118)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:22:12 PM EST
    Obama but the Obama camp are pretty angry at him.  Clay put his pictures up all over the place that was to have held an Obama rally.  Then when he was asked to remove them he refused.  So they had to move it to another place.  

    [ Parent ]
    I know I said this in the last thread (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by kayla on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:06:23 PM EST
    But really.  I am extremely surprised by these results.  I didn't expect her to win NC, but I thought she'd win Indiana by at least 6 points.  I mean, I didn't even doubt it for a second.  Crazy.  This morning Harold Ford Jr. was on Morning Joe and said that he thinks Obama will win both states and I thought he was talking crazy and he said it like he knew something I didn't know.

    Wtf?  How did this happen?  I really thought Hillary was shining these last couple of weeks.  Incredible.

    remember that closed door meeting (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:08:48 PM EST
    in NC yesterday that was so weird? Yeah, I'm going there.

    [ Parent ]
    What closed door meeting in NC? (none / 0) (#84)
    by vicsan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:14:02 PM EST
    I missed that story.

    [ Parent ]
    The mayor of Hammond (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:11:51 PM EST
    is questioning (though not overtly) why it took so long for Lake County to turn in their numbers. John King wants to know what the excuse is in Lake County turning in their numbers so late. John King brought up the issue of appearances and the integrity of the vote. Hammond is in Lake County (I think).

    Yes it is (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:16:21 PM EST
    Hammond mayor is with Hillary.  Other Lake County cities are mine - Hobart - whose mayor Snedecor is with Hillary:  East Chicago a Latino stronghold is lead by Mayor Pabey who supports Hillary: Lake Station: Griffith: Whiting -- mayor supports Hillary.  

    [ Parent ]
    So what's your local take on this? (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:19:08 PM EST
    I think there's a heavy burden of proof before accusing people of election fraud, and we did expect Gary to go for Obama.

    But certainly appearances are bad. Sometimes they are for perfectly innocent reasons. But I'm curious as to what your take is?

    [ Parent ]

    Gary will go HUGE for Obama (none / 0) (#207)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:45:22 PM EST
    And the voting system here is antiquated.  I'd imagine the people counting the votes are over 60 or 70 so it is slow going.  I also think that there were a some machine problems that allowed a few polling places in the area to stay open later.  AND we are on a different time than the rest of Indiana - an hour behind.

    That said, this county is corrupt. Nothing would surprise me.  Gary, East Chicago and Hammond are the worst offenders.  But Schererville and Merrillville aren't too far behind.

    I think it is jumping the gun to accuse OBAMA himself of fraud. But here in Lake County nothing would suprise me from the local politicos.

     And, for the record, I worked hard for Obama these last few weeks here in Hobart.  So if you want to discount my view since I am part of the hated camp here.

    I feel if fraud happened it wasn't just for Obama's benefit.  I'd examine the totals and absentee ballots from Hammond and E.C. too.


    [ Parent ]

    Excuse me. I'm over sixty... (5.00 / 1) (#237)
    by BGP on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:55:54 PM EST
    and I'm not exactly tottery and slow. I think that's ageism.

    [ Parent ]
    Some people in this thread are jumping the shark (5.00 / 5) (#88)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:03 PM EST
    But it looks bad. You don't think it looks bad? EVEN KOS thinks it looks bad.

    This (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by sas on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:18 PM EST
    smells like something very fishy here, and the longer it goes the worse it smells.

    Man (5.00 / 5) (#104)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:17:47 PM EST
    If there is any funny business going on, it is not helpful for Obama.  At the end of the day, it really makes little difference whether he wins Indiana by 12 votes or loses it by 12 votes.

    There is a potential narrative here - corrupt black mayor steals decisive state for Obama - that is tailor-made for Fox News.

    At this point (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Korha on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:20:58 PM EST
    I'm half-hoping Obama loses Indiana because if there really is voter fraud going on that puts him over the top, it's going to play out just like you said. That's bad news.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah (none / 0) (#131)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:25:52 PM EST
    Why does he need to win?  If he loses Indiana by 2% the night obviously gets played as a win for him.  The narrative should be about a good night for Obama, not about the possibility of voter fraud.

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly... (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:28:14 PM EST
    ... it's the kind of thing that will energize her supporters.

    [ Parent ]
    He doesn't need to win (none / 0) (#151)
    by Korha on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:30:16 PM EST
    But, of course, if there is in fact no voter fraud then as an Obama supporter I'd hope that he does win Indiana--I mean, why not?

    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 0) (#182)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:37:58 PM EST
    provided everyone is prepared to stipulate that there was no voter fraud, sure.  If the circumstances look bad, personally I would just let it go.  It makes so little difference.

    [ Parent ]
    Various thoughts (5.00 / 6) (#113)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:20:58 PM EST
    1. The OFB went nuts after NH and NV and discredited themselves (and maybe vote fraud charges in the general, where we know the Republicans practice it).

    2. I'd be a lot more confident that I won't have to "get over it" again, if Obama supporters hadn't released that doctored video of the "War Room" in IN (that then got onto the A list and went viral). That's a Nixonian tactic, way beyond the 3AM ad, etc.

    3. The whole voting system in IN is a mess: Insecure machines and purged rolls. Ick.

    4. It doesn't matter that the press is watching the absentee ballots get counted. What matters -- read the WaPo story, its right in there -- is how secure the voting machine cartridges are. Read the WaPo story:

    nder local practice, all of the cartridges from voting machines in Gary and nearby East Chicago are first collected at the local airport before being driven to the county headquarters to be tallied

    Note that the OFB went nuts in NH, but IIRC, there wasn't the centralized vulnerability of that airport run there.

    Also Unlike in NH (none / 0) (#214)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:46:27 PM EST
    Some parts of Indiana use machines with no paper trail.

    [ Parent ]
    More numbers... (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:24:55 PM EST
    From http://www.nwi.com/blogs/election/

    The next bunch has the two about even, so Obama keeps the 18,000 vote lead he had countywide.

    316 precincts out of 561 reporting.

    Almost all of Gary and Merrillville and portion of Munster primarily make up these numbers, plus Lake Station, East Chicago:

    Lake county
    Democratic candidates
    President of the
    United States
    Barack Obama 46,759
    Hillary Clinton 25,100

    Indiana's entire elections machinery reeks of ineptitude. The SOS website is hopelessly behind.

    why did my post get deleted? (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by andreww on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:26:03 PM EST
    I just said - "kind of like when Obama got zero votes in some Harlem areas"  What is wrong with this?  Why did I get deleted?

    All Obama supporters... (1.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Alec82 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:26:49 PM EST
    ...appear to be in the process of deletion.  

    [ Parent ]
    I don't believe that.... (none / 0) (#143)
    by andreww on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:28:50 PM EST
    I often disagree with TL - but seldom find Jeralyn or BTD to be unfair as it relates to removing comments.

    [ Parent ]
    Only ones who don't understand how to be gracious (none / 0) (#147)
    by Marvin42 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:29:28 PM EST
    in victory. I mean come on, show some basic social skills.

    [ Parent ]
    Calling Obama votes "voter fraud"... (none / 0) (#153)
    by Alec82 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:30:44 PM EST
    ...is hardly being gracious, which is largely what I am responding to.  

     Deleting all such responses is...something.  Not free and fair debate, but something.

    [ Parent ]

    No you are pretty much being an a*****e (none / 0) (#163)
    by Marvin42 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:32:24 PM EST
    Sorry, but you are. I was going to post something before, but obviously you can't see it.

    [ Parent ]
    You are suspended (none / 0) (#166)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:33:02 PM EST
    You clearly do not know how to behave on a night like this.

    Come back tomorrow.

    [ Parent ]

    Off topic (none / 0) (#162)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:32:19 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Probably because it's not a fact? (none / 0) (#171)
    by Just another person on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:34:20 PM EST
    I don't know - I'm taking a guess. If it's a discredited talking point, it has no place here.

    [ Parent ]
    That's not "all" you said (none / 0) (#176)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:36:23 PM EST
    and pretending otherwise is just silly season.

    [ Parent ]