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Obama Hires VP Advisor

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:10:22 PM EST
Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, 2008 (all tags)
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Barack Obama has hired John Kerry's vice-presidential vetter. Here's my questions:

  • Does Hillary want the vice-presidential spot on the ticket? Does she just want him to offer it to her so she can have the satisfaction of turning him down? Or, does she figure since she's promised to campaign for him if he's the nominee that she might as well still be campaigning for herself as well, even if it's just as the VP candidate?
  • Can Obama win without Hillary on the ticket?
  • Is serving as VP in Hillary's best interest -- or just Obama's?
  • Last, if Obama, who we know doesn't want Hillary on the ticket, offers it to her due to pressure from Democratic party leaders, what does that say about his message of bringing change to Washington? [More...]

Isn't it a sign he'll be just as beholden to party politics and the old style of doing business as everyone who went before him? If he can't even name his own running mate, what does that say about his ability to implement his ideas without undue compromise if he's President?

Personally, unlike Big Tent Democrat, I don't want a unity ticket. I don't think he should ride Hillary's coattails to a PA, Ohio or Florida win. If he is the nominee, I'll vote for him and support him, but he should win the election on his own. I also think the Dems need a more balanced ticket. Obama's best chance in November, in my view, is with a popular, older, male governor from a predominantly blue collar, Western or Rocky Mountain state.

Feel free to disagree or post your own questions and thoughts on the VP situation.

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    Obama Hires VP Advisor | 243 comments (243 topical)
    He's on his own (5.00 / 10) (#1)
    by catfish on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:12:01 PM EST
    He can pick his own veep. Don't care anymore.

    I'm with you on this, Catfish. Why should she (5.00 / 6) (#6)
    by Angel on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:15:27 PM EST
    help him after all he and his campaign have done to her and the Democratic party?  She owes him NOTHING.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh she should accept it (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by catfish on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:22:06 PM EST
    And she would out of duty. And frankly to be the first female v.p. isn't bad.

    I just don't think he'll offer it. And if I were him I don't know if I'd want her upstaging me.


    [ Parent ]

    He won't offer it if he hasn't by now... (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:27:03 PM EST
    ...it would have been the easiest way in the world to end this thing already. The party can't pressure him into anything at this point, by the way. He's got them by the short hairs and they all know it.

    [ Parent ]
    It's just too insulting to think about . . . (5.00 / 6) (#124)
    by abfabdem on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:04:28 PM EST
    I can't go there yet.

    [ Parent ]
    Offering it to her, the (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by zfran on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:25:57 PM EST
    first woman vp, takes away from HIM the first aa president.ooooooo

    [ Parent ]
    She owes the country (4.16 / 6) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:16:24 PM EST
    and she cares about the country.

    [ Parent ]
    She's been working for the country (5.00 / 7) (#16)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:19:40 PM EST
    all along...she cares about the country...

    Not sure she owes it.

    [ Parent ]

    Standing Ovation (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by IndiDemGirl on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:19:55 PM EST
    from my library here at home.

    And the same rationale for why he should offer her the position.

    [ Parent ]

    Sounds suspiciously like blackmail....she has (5.00 / 8) (#25)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:22:47 PM EST
    done more for this country that 50 people put together.  If she can run on the energy of her supporters, that will be good, but if she is tired and wants out after being slapped down repeatedly, the she should back off and enjoy some vacation time.  obama is the one who supposedly thinks he can lead this country...time for him to get to work, if he is the nominee.

    [ Parent ]
    She owes the country? (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by bridget on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:23:13 PM EST
    I don't understand.

    What does she owe?

    [ Parent ]

    But Obama said he would do whatever it took (5.00 / 7) (#32)
    by Angel on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:24:30 PM EST
    for HIM to win.  Thus, I think to him it is all about HIM.  Why should Hillary help him get elected and then be relegated to doing funerals and tea parties.  She's already said she would campaign for him.  I think that's more than enough to ask of her.

    [ Parent ]
    I'll go with your second choice (5.00 / 14) (#35)
    by cawaltz on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:26:24 PM EST
    She cares about the country. I'm not giving you te first though. She doesn't owe anyone anything. Partiularly the morons that have spent more energy slamming her charecter than they hve discussing issues.

    [ Parent ]
    The Democratic party owes her (5.00 / 9) (#49)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:33:50 PM EST
    In more ways than I can describe.  But most importantly they owe her and her voters some fairness.  It is silly for you to be putting the blame or telling her she "owes" anything.  How about what Obama owes?

    Why don't you say that Obama owes it to the country to pick Clinton as VP if he were the nominee?

    [ Parent ]

    The Democratic Party... (2.00 / 4) (#90)
    by Alec82 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:47:30 PM EST
    ...owes very little to the Clintons.  

     That's what's so funny...a lot of her support comes from Bill's supporters, but he was an uconventional Democrat and the party was injured by his scandals.  He moved very far to the right, for a Democrat.  So I can understand why some supporters of Senator Clinton worry about Obama, but I don't think it is fair to say that the party owes them anything.  

    [ Parent ]

    "The Clintons" (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:49:24 PM EST
    In my message I only talked about Hillary. Try again.  And they do owe her some FAIRNESS which is what is owed to any of our candidates in this so-called Democratic process.

    [ Parent ]
    C'mon (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by lilburro on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:01:28 PM EST
    there are plenty of Ds in Congress that are more conservative than Hillary Clinton or Bill Clinton.  We just cheered on a Rep in Mississippi for winning on a pro life, anti-gay platform, remember?  

    I don't think "the party owes them something" is the correct way to phrase it, but the thought of chasing the Clintons out is absurd.  The party certainly shouldn't do that - it owes them membership and respectful disagreement.  Not demonization.  

    Plus, in pop culture, a lot of the Clinton years are a credit to the party.  Clinton was seen as broadening American horizons.  Reagan didn't want to acknowledge AIDS; Clinton now runs an AIDS foundation.  

    As far as being a Senator and a presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton mostly does the party a lot of credit and has been surprisingly liberal.  Plus they make more $$$ than anyone for the party.

    Grow out of them if you want, but I think Hillary Clinton's sustained focus on liberal issues, like healthcare and job creation, has made her newly relevant.

    [ Parent ]

    I didn't cheer on Childers. (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by alexei on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:11:01 PM EST
    He is just a Republican who saw a chance to win running as a Democrat.  No way is he anyone that I support or even care that he got elected.  So what, he is just going to strengthen the part of the Party that is against the issues that I deem important.

    Just remember, he ran fast and hard away from Obama - that is what saved him.

    [ Parent ]

    Right Wing Talking Point Alert (5.00 / 6) (#126)
    by rooge04 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:04:57 PM EST
    The Clintons is a Right Wing Talking Point. But Obama and supporters keep using it. Kindly stop. RIGHT WING talking point. HILLARY is the candidate. All by herself.

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly Which Candidate Is Running To The (5.00 / 9) (#138)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:13:23 PM EST
    right in this primary?

    Social Security is in crisis and on the table  - Obama
    Harry and Louis Right Wing Attack Ads on UHC - Obama
    Will adopt a foreign policy like Reagan/BushI - Obama
    Republicans considered for both Sec. of Defense and State - Obama
    Republicans are better at government regulations - Obama
    In favor of abstinence only sex education - Obama
    In favor of merit pay for teachers - Obama
    Republican Hagel and Bloomberg are listed as VP selections - Obama
    Having a "cure the gays" minister campaign for him - Obama

    [ Parent ]

    The party was NOT injured. (5.00 / 8) (#144)
    by rooge04 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:16:53 PM EST
    The party had power only because of Bill.  The party only got the Presidency two times in a row since FDR because of Bill.   The party owes them quite a bit. The fact that the party is so willing to spit on them now disgusts me.  Act as though they've done nothing for the party. It makes me absolutely sick.  

    What I will forever hold against Obama is how he's managed to turn Democrats against the Clintons with falsities and right-wing talking points.  Remember Gore? He LOST (in addition to being robbed in FL)because he tried to DISTANCE himself from Bill.    Bill and Hillary are the best thing that's happened to this party.

    You should all thank them. The fact that Obama and his ilk are so willing to throw them to the wolves tells me all I need to know about his "character."

    [ Parent ]

    I'd say the country (5.00 / 14) (#71)
    by Jeralyn on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:40:26 PM EST
    owes her

    [ Parent ]
    That's what I would say, too, Jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by bridget on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:14:22 PM EST
    the country owes her

    [ Parent ]
    Absolutely! (none / 0) (#209)
    by alexei on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:12:06 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    What does she "owe" the country? (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:47:57 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    She owes the country? (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Foxx on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:49:04 PM EST
    I think not.

    We all owe her.

    [ Parent ]

    the country owes HER. (5.00 / 5) (#99)
    by rooge04 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:51:26 PM EST
    The woman has done more than enough for the party. In spite of being spit upon from every direction.  She deserves to go back to the Senate with her head held high. And Obama can lose it all on his own. I don't even want her to campaign for him.  But she's too good for this stupid Party and she will.

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary (5.00 / 3) (#135)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:12:34 PM EST
    owes the country nothing.

    [ Parent ]
    The country owes Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by zfran on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:28:04 PM EST
    the presidency. How do we get her to run as an independent?

    [ Parent ]
    Correction, Hillary has earned (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by zfran on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:28:41 PM EST
    her place to be president!!!!

    [ Parent ]
    That would be (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:31:58 PM EST
    epic.  And the media firestormm that would follow.....

    [ Parent ]
    personally with all she has done (5.00 / 3) (#151)
    by owenaprhys on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:23:52 PM EST
    I say the country owes her!

    [ Parent ]
    Ludicrous and appallling (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by angie on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:03:21 PM EST
    To think she "owes" the country after she has dedicated her adult life to serving it, such that she should accept the VP spot in order to "heal the wounds" created by the pretender to the throne (with the help of the DNC, the blogger boiz & the msm). H3ll to the NO! She does care about the country & the party, which is why she is trying to save it from itself, but if the Dems continue to keep their heads in the sand and give Obama the nomination, her continued service as Senator of NY is more than enough to repay her "debt" imo.

    [ Parent ]
    If Obama were going to make the offer... (none / 0) (#170)
    by lambertstrether on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:39:41 PM EST
    ... is this a sensible way to go about doing it?

    Of course, I do notice some women on the list, so working on the theory that women are interchangeable...

    [ Parent ]

    I flat-out dread (5.00 / 6) (#58)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:35:48 PM EST
    the constant media and blog harping on every little thing she says or does that would continue non-stop, probably even worse, if she were the VP candidate.  They'd see everything as a nefarious attempt on her part to undermine Obama so he would lose and she'd be in position to be the nominee in 2012.

    I actually think having her on the ticket would be MORE divisive in the end because of that.

    I just hate the whole idea more than I can adequately express.

    [ Parent ]

    That taste-tester comment (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by catfish on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:42:02 PM EST
    somebody made a few weeks back, yeah. But despite all the awful media this primary, I am still glad she ran, she won over a lot of skeptics.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree (none / 0) (#159)
    by Valhalla on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:29:14 PM EST
    although only as a practical matter.  As a matter of principle, allowing the MSM's bad behavior to turn us off her as VP is analogous to giving into terrorism.  

    Mind, I don't think she should take VP, even if offered, because I don't think it's the best choice for her or the country.

    [ Parent ]

    Jeralyn, do we really know that Obama (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by MarkL on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:12:42 PM EST
    doesn't want Hillary as VP? That's what I think, but the evidence isn't direct.

    Personally, I think he'll want to win (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by andgarden on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:15:00 PM EST
    And the evidence from the past year is that he'll associate with the people he needs to associate with in order to accomplish that.

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary seemed to "off-put" (5.00 / 0) (#161)
    by zfran on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:30:40 PM EST
    him at most debates. I don't think he really wants to deal with her and have her steal the spotlight, or prompt him from behind with answers like Nancy Reagan used to do with Ronny.

    [ Parent ]
    You underestimate his ego (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by angie on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:05:44 PM EST
    Obama doesn't believe for one second he needs Hillary to win -- imo, his belief that he "will get all of her voters" hasn't changed one whit.

    [ Parent ]
    Let's hope so (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:15:43 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    It is difficult to really know that (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by IndiDemGirl on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:35:00 PM EST
    since there are conflicting rumors just today about that very subject.

     Sometimes it seems like the media know no more about what is happening between the two camps than I do.  They, the media, seem to gossip as much as middle schoolers, so I'm not sure what to believe.

    [ Parent ]

    the media doesn't know (5.00 / 5) (#141)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:14:26 PM EST
    sh1t.  they gave us bush43.  the iraq war. american idol. britney spears.  and now barack obama.

    west virginia and kentucky told the media in no uncertain terms that they don't know jack, either.

    [ Parent ]

    I strenuously disagree (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:13:59 PM EST
    You win anyway it takes. I am of the strong opinion that a Unity ticket is the best path to winning in November.

    Nothing, absolutely nothing, matters as much.

    Whatever it takes.

    we know you think that (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:16:31 PM EST
    I'm just pointing out my view since it's different than your's.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:21:38 PM EST
    I thought I had not mentioned it before . . .

    [ Parent ]
    Fine, but there are very (none / 0) (#41)
    by IndiDemGirl on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:29:30 PM EST
    few voices out there in the blogosphere (or whatever you call it)  advocating for the Unity Ticket.  So those who do support it can't say it enough, imo.

    And around here in Lake County, Indiana strangers stop me in the grocery store, Target, Borders Books, the antique mall in Crown Point (I always wear my Obama button) and ask if I think he'll chose Hillary.  And they want that.  They think it is a good idea.  Both the ones that voted for him and the ones that voted for her.  

    I've never seen such an interest in politics before.  These candidates, this race, have excited and interested people even in red Indiana.  Why not take advantage of that?

    [ Parent ]

    Interesting (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by nell on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:11:36 PM EST
    Because my experience in Lake County has been very different. I have met many women, in particular, who do not want a joint ticket as they see it as insulting to her. Since this is a viewpoint I share, I suppose it is possible that I am more likely to be in circles with people who share similar views. Then there are people like my parents, and according to them, almost all of their friends who are either for Hillary or McCain but do not want Obama anywhere on the ticket because they do not think he has enough experience....

    Obviously there are people who want a unity ticket, but I just think it is interesting how people can walk away with very different feelings even in the same community depending on their own biases.

    [ Parent ]

    Also I support Obama and like Hillary too (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by IndiDemGirl on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:07:55 PM EST
    They are both great candidates.

    He is just my first choice.  When people approach the subject I have good words to say about both of them, so maybe that gives them to go-ahead to talk about them teaming up.

    [ Parent ]

    Agree with your last comment, but if (none / 0) (#192)
    by IndiDemGirl on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:53:28 PM EST
    that many people are against Obama in Indiana, then she would have won the state by a lot instead of 1.whatever percent.  

    I really have been surprised by number of strangers who have approached me to talk about the election.  And, lately the "hope they get together" comment has been a frequent mention.

    Heard it tonight at my daughter's ballet recital practice, from another mother and good friend.  She is an Obama supporter though.

    Would you agree that the primary has energized Dems and brought a bit of excitment to this area?  And do ya think we can ditch Mitch this November?

    [ Parent ]

    I've had others report the same thing (none / 0) (#194)
    by lambertstrether on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:56:01 PM EST
    That's what CD, my colleague at Corrente, says.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama has repeatedly (none / 0) (#241)
    by Josey on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:21:14 AM EST
    trashed the Clinton administration, leading his young followers to believe the "evil" Clintons did nothing for the Dem Party and America. Young followers - that enjoyed the peace and prosperity of the 90s while living with their parents are now gleeful that a newbie senator took down a former first lady and senator. And that's what Obama's candidacy is all about - "beating the B---h!" And Obamamites get a Centrist nominee to the right of Hillary on most issues.

    Obama has done everything possible to negate Bill Clinton - the only 2-term Dem president since FDR.
    Republican candidates do not trash former Republican administrations.
    Obama could not win on his own merits without bamboolzing his followers to disdain the Clintons and Dem core values!

    But to Obamamites - FDR and Clinton represent the "old way" - and America is now leaning the American Idol way and only Obama can lead the way.
    Even Kerry says to vote for Obama because he's a Black Man. Well - Will Smith can raise money and draw big crowds too.
    Write in Will!

    [ Parent ]

    As a rare find on blogs, you have used (none / 0) (#203)
    by ecoast on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:06:16 PM EST
    "it's" correctly, but alas you have reverted to blog form in using "your's".  No apostrophe in "yours" please.

    [ Parent ]
    winning at any cost is too great a cost (5.00 / 4) (#133)
    by Lisa on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:11:33 PM EST
    My hope, if Obama is the nominee, is that Hillary returns to the Senate, where she will continue to outshine the Kerry/Kennedy faction who systematically attacked an overly qualified candidate who would have been our first female president, because of their own wounded vanity (and in the process, attempted to destroy the legacy of her husband, the only Democrat to be elected president in nearly three decades).

    Who is a good Democrat?  Who cares about party unity?  It was Hillary all along.

    It's an insult for Hillary to be second on a ticket to a flawed junior senator, to fight for him and withstand the heat on his behalf, after, what Geraldine Ferraro so rightly termed his "terribly sexist" behavior.

    Even Lou Dobbs described it this way:  "I have never seen in my career greater favoritism being applied in the national media than in this campaign on behalf of Senator Obama and against Senator Clinton."  

    What a terrible and damaging message to women and girls everywhere it would be to reward this.

    [ Parent ]

    The Kerry/Kennedy faction (none / 0) (#214)
    by AX10 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:20:32 PM EST
    as you call it is hurting the party.
    They are hellbent on destroying Hillary.
    Perhaps they are jealous that she would succeed where both of the failed?!?
    Or perhaps that faction is made of insiders and they want to control the POTUS.  The Clinton's are not insiders an are not easily controlled by the party machinery.

    [ Parent ]
    Indeed (none / 0) (#5)
    by andgarden on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:15:24 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Va polls show VP can matter (5.00 / 8) (#10)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:16:53 PM EST
    When John Edwards is with Obama it makes a huge difference in the polls in Virginia  (as opposed to Bayh or Rendell)  Clinton wasn't a choice.
    I was surprised because I did not think the vp choice makes a difference.  Clinton should not take the vp position and I think she should plan a very nice summer and fall vacation and not spend time helping people who called her a racist.

    A-freaking-men, sister! (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:24:07 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    And (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Emma on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:57:18 PM EST
    she should make it a family vacation.

    [ Parent ]
    Edwards? Helping in VA? (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:15:42 PM EST
    Yeah. Right.  Kerry lost that state to Bush.  Edwards was NO help.

    [ Parent ]
    Ultimately they won't. (none / 0) (#129)
    by masslib on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:07:23 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    To My Mind, obama Will Not Win With (5.00 / 10) (#12)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:18:09 PM EST
    whomever he picks.  Hillary is too smart for obama and he would constantly resent it; thus, I don't think he will ask her.  What I really want to see done, is for the dimbulbs at the DNC, along with the sd's to come to their senses and vote for the most electable candidate.  That would
    be Hillary!

    Why would she ever consider the Np. 2 spot (5.00 / 8) (#60)
    by CE415 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:36:04 PM EST
    If you consider blatant sexism as a similiar social evil as racism how can one in good conscience vote for Obama at all. Just suck it up ladies??
    Why would she ever accept to be banished to the hidden VP house working for a sexist who will never listen to her rather than finish her term as a US Senator and run in four years.

    [ Parent ]
    She is a good sport (none / 0) (#81)
    by catfish on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:43:29 PM EST
    I see her doing it for the good of the party and the good of the country. And I see her smiling all the way.

    I just don't see President Obama being too happy.

    [ Parent ]

    I sincerely hope she (5.00 / 7) (#116)
    by MichaelGale on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:59:55 PM EST
    is not a "good sport".

    She should never even think about the vp spot. It's degrading to even think of offering it to her. She is better on her own and she will help the country more without Barack Obama.

    I really wish this would stop.  It's embarrassing to hear Hillary for VP.......she's better than that.

    [ Parent ]

    A bottom-heavy ticket would be awkward (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by catfish on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:13:59 PM EST
    I don't know. Maybe he could ceremoniously offer it to her and she...well I don't see how this can be resolved. I think she wants to be veep, I think she earned it. But I can see why he doesn't want to offer it.

    [ Parent ]
    He will have a bottom heavy ticket (5.00 / 6) (#168)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:39:02 PM EST
    no matter what.  He has no experience.

    [ Parent ]
    Even more bottom heavy than Dukakis... (4.66 / 3) (#212)
    by alexei on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:15:28 PM EST
    who was a Governor and did have executive experience.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm for it (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Llelldorin on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:18:30 PM EST
    I'd be for either Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama, depending how the next several weeks play out.

    No matter what happens, we've got roughly half the party plus or minus a smidgeon for each of the two candidates, and a lot of offense taken by both sides. Without a unity ticket, whoever gets the nod will have a hell of a time unifying the party.

    (All of the above is just as true if Clinton wins it, by the way. If college students, the Pacific Northwest, and African Americans feel cheated, it'll kill us downticket. I'd rather not trade the presidency for the Congress. We need both.)

    Interesting. (5.00 / 5) (#14)
    by lilburro on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:18:47 PM EST
    For all the New New New, Obama has no qualms associating himself with John Kerry.

    or Ted Kennedy, or Jay Rockefeller, or (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:26:43 PM EST
    Bill Richardson, or John Conyers, or Waxman...

    [ Parent ]
    Don't forget Daschle! (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by lambertstrether on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:41:14 PM EST
    How could I ever....

    [ Parent ]
    If only we could forget daschle... (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:48:35 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I don't know that attacking Conyers and Waxman... (1.00 / 0) (#67)
    by Alec82 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:37:59 PM EST
    ...is helpful.  What problems do you have with them? That they're not corporatist sellouts?

    [ Parent ]
    This isn't useful (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by andgarden on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:40:41 PM EST
    Both candidates have supporters from every camp in the party.

    [ Parent ]
    Except Clinton never stated she would change... (5.00 / 1) (#213)
    by alexei on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:16:39 PM EST
    Washington and bring in the "new politics".

    [ Parent ]
    Simply making the point, they are not new.... (5.00 / 2) (#185)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:48:02 PM EST
    old school....take it down a thousand...

    [ Parent ]
    I make no predictions... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by citizen53 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:19:16 PM EST
    but I would not be surprised to see either Biden or Daschle if Obama secures the nomination.

    Disatrous choice (5.00 / 6) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:20:59 PM EST
    would be Daschle.

    Just awful.

    [ Parent ]

    I'll bet you he thinks (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by andgarden on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:23:16 PM EST
    he's bought and paid for the position, too.

    If Bill and Hillary can save us from a Daschle VP nomination, they should.

    [ Parent ]

    Hmmm... (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:23:42 PM EST
    and that's why I'm thinking it might happen [/s]

    [ Parent ]
    lol! (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:45:53 PM EST
    That's a good way to predict what will happen in the Democratic Party now.  Imagine worst case scenario and then bet big on it.

    [ Parent ]
    In that case (none / 0) (#187)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:48:56 PM EST
    I'm betting Chuck Hegel is the VP pick

    [ Parent ]
    Can you imagine the spin by the Obama blogs (5.00 / 2) (#216)
    by mulletov cocktails on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:25:05 PM EST
    after claiming the Clintons were no longer Democrats if something like this actually happened?

    [ Parent ]
    Selecting A Very Conservative Republican (none / 0) (#197)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:59:25 PM EST
    for VP is the one thing that would make me vote for McCain.


    [ Parent ]
    Oh, I'd do more than vote (none / 0) (#211)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:13:57 PM EST
    I'd give money and run the neighborhood campaign office.

    [ Parent ]
    how about Richardson? (none / 0) (#221)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:39:48 PM EST
    that will really sit well with Clinton supporters.

    [ Parent ]
    Do not understimate... (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by citizen53 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:25:37 PM EST
    his relationship with Obama.

    Many of Daschle's operatives are intehral in the Obama campaign, so far as I recall.

    [ Parent ]

    Daschle would become (none / 0) (#77)
    by flyerhawk on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:42:24 PM EST
    his Chief of Staff maybe.  

    You don't pick a VP based on loyalty and friendship.  

    You pick a VP based on political strategy.

    [ Parent ]

    Daschle as anything in an Obama admin (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by andgarden on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:49:50 PM EST
    would be far more damaging to the "new kind of politics" meme than just about any other politician.

    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 0) (#102)
    by flyerhawk on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:52:13 PM EST
    by the time that he was hired as Chief of Staff that meme would no longer matter.  He would already be President.  

    Very few people care about White House staffers except for the Press Secretary. Karl Rove was obviously a notable exception to that.

    [ Parent ]

    so the campaign meme (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by english teacher on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:46:59 PM EST
    about a "new kind of politics" was just a lot of baloney?  obama's campaign rhetoric was just a cynical manipulation to get elected?  once he's elected, the issues that were central to his campaign won't matter?  you just said obama is a lying hypocrite, and i know i am reading you correctly here.  power spoke the truth about obama's cynical campaing deception vis a vis iraq; now you are saying we should not expect obama's campaign promise to be a "new politician" to acutally inform his policy?  what a tangled web we weave, when we first endeavor to deceive.  

    [ Parent ]
    In a word (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:49:43 PM EST
    YES

    [ Parent ]
    Have a great time (none / 0) (#222)
    by flyerhawk on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:42:29 PM EST
    acting disillusioned.   Doesn't matter to me one whit.

    Politicians say things to get elected.  Obama isn't lying.  He isn't being a hypocrite.  But he certainly will act differently as President than he what his campaign promised, just like every other past President.

    I'm sure you see Hillary as some brave soul who always speaks the truth.  She is truly the exceptional politician unlike all others.

    [ Parent ]

    so when he promises a (none / 0) (#229)
    by english teacher on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:58:00 PM EST
    "new kind of politics" you say he is merely lying, that all politicians lie, and that it is unrealistic to expect obama to do anything other than lie to get elected.  that is what you are saying.  furthermore, you seem to like it.  

    [ Parent ]
    Yup (none / 0) (#230)
    by flyerhawk on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:02:38 AM EST
    I like it because I don't have some naive notion of what new kind of politics means.  He's going to be bringing puppy dogs and bunnies to the White House.

    He is going to change the game to one where the Left makes the rules.  That hasn't happened in America for 40 years.

    [ Parent ]

    That should read (none / 0) (#231)
    by flyerhawk on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:03:30 AM EST
    He is NOT going to bring puppies and bunnies.

    [ Parent ]
    so he is not about unity (none / 0) (#232)
    by english teacher on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:12:00 AM EST
    but about the left making the rules.  i haven't heard him saying anything about the left "making the rules".  his claim was to be the unity candidate.  oh well, you have admitted your guy is a liar and a deceiver and that you like it.  that tells me everything i need to know thanks for playing.  

    [ Parent ]
    The left making the rules? (none / 0) (#239)
    by otherlisa on Fri May 23, 2008 at 02:56:50 AM EST
    You have got to be kidding.

    Really, have you been paying any attention at all to this race? To think that Obama is some kind of covert leftist who is going to fight for progressive ideals as President requires the absolute suspension of disbelief. It goes against everything he has done so far in his political life.

    I truly do not understand Obamamania.

    [ Parent ]

    Uh (none / 0) (#104)
    by Shawn on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:52:58 PM EST
    Bush/Cheney?

    [ Parent ]
    I agree (none / 0) (#115)
    by Shawn on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:59:29 PM EST
    I think Obama's veep selection is very likely to be Daschle or someone with the same basic profile as Daschle - an older white male Catholic from the Midwest. That's just my read on the Obama camp's strategic thinking. Expect Tim Roemer and Bob Casey to switch their position on abortion by mid-July.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't think Casey will (none / 0) (#164)
    by zfran on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:33:34 PM EST
    switch his position. Obama's position is unclear from what I've read. He says he would appoint judges sympathetic to women and gays! Will someone interpret that for me, please!!

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly - that's why I want him to pick Daschle (5.00 / 5) (#45)
    by ecoast on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:30:22 PM EST
    We will start Hillary2012 promptly in Dec.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, he can have Daschle (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by abfabdem on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:07:36 PM EST
    Great choice Obama--go for it!

    [ Parent ]
    Absolutely. (5.00 / 5) (#59)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:35:58 PM EST
    If Obama picks Tom Daschle as VP, we might as well just save ourselves the time, and hand John McCain the keys to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

    That is, unless Obama picks him next week, before he secures the nomination. The rank-and-file backlash to such a vaingloriously premature move would no doubt be fascinating to watch unfold.

    [ Parent ]

    Biden's a great guy, but he is WAY (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by MarkL on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:21:34 PM EST
    too gaffe prone to be a good candidate.
    Daschle would be a horrible choice. The worst Sen. majority leader in decades---a weak, vacillating appeaser---is not the right choice.

    [ Parent ]
    You know what they say about Biden (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:42:01 PM EST
    on the Hill?  Biden has no speed bump in between his brain and his mouth.  :)

    [ Parent ]
    No way he picks Biden... (none / 0) (#36)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:26:35 PM EST
    I live in Delaware.  We love Joe, but we're painfully aware that anyone from our lovely little state (best kept secret on the east coast) adds absolutely nothing from an electoral standpoint.  Biden would only bring three electoral votes.  That's right, folks.  Three.  Depressing, right?

    Joe would be a great Secty of State.  

    [ Parent ]

    Just saw Tom Carper on Amtrak (none / 0) (#66)
    by andgarden on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:37:42 PM EST
    this evening. I passed through most of your state. ;-)

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, it probably took about 7 minutes (none / 0) (#242)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:35:04 AM EST
    including stops in Wilmington and Newark.  :)

    Small, but mighty.  It really is a great state - beautiful beaches, low property taxes and no sales tax.  

    [ Parent ]

    No way should she accept the VP (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by athyrio on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:20:34 PM EST
    position and allow the Obama idiots to ride on her coattails....She won't wish to be associated with such an administration IMO....

    in her speech after Kentucky... (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:23:57 PM EST
    Hillary said she will support the nominee, whoever SHE is.

    What is it that her supporters like Jeralyn didn't get about that statement?  She plans to be the nominee.

    [ Parent ]

    There is only one good reason (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by talex on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:37:23 PM EST
    that Clinton would take the VP position and it is an good one. And that is to put the first WOMAN ever within a heartbeat away from being the President. That would be an accomplishment.

    No one, and I mean no one, can bring the votes that Hillary could as VP. But it isn't going to happen if it is up to Obama, he is that stuck on himself.

    [ Parent ]

    It's just so odd (5.00 / 7) (#131)
    by abfabdem on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:09:27 PM EST
    to be having these conversations interspersed with poll stat reports showing her so much stronger in the GE.  

    [ Parent ]
    Remember what was said about (none / 0) (#23)
    by MarkL on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:22:25 PM EST
    Teddy Kennedy the other day? He was so effective because he allowed other people to take credit.
    Hillary can do the same thing here.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama would never offer VP to her (none / 0) (#163)
    by felizarte on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:32:01 PM EST
    He would be too afraid she might accept.

    [ Parent ]
    Could Nancy Pelosi, (none / 0) (#165)
    by zfran on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:35:57 PM EST
    uncommitted (Ha), be an Obama supporter be considered? If they lose, she goes back to being Speaker!!!

    [ Parent ]
    He's throwing Hillary in the mix (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by magisterludi on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:22:29 PM EST
    with the others? She's got to stand in line for consideration? I find that pretty demeaning (big surprise).

    The other explanation is that the discussions have already occurred and there is no "Unity" ticket in the cards.

    I'm for Clinton as the nominee (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:22:50 PM EST
    Let Obama waste time fantasizing about VP choices while ignoring what's happening to voters in Florida and Michigan.

    But if he must, how about Edwards as VP? smirk...

    Discursively this is an interesting story (5.00 / 6) (#47)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:31:27 PM EST
    in that it offers a distraction from the fact that he's not actually the nominee yet...and offers the "planners" and pundits something to chew on whilst ignoring the fact that he's not the nominee yet.

    It's part and parcel of the victory lap that he can't talk about because he is not the nominee.

    In other words, it's a trap.

    [ Parent ]

    Thank you (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by Monda on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:34:17 PM EST
    That's what I posted below.  My thoughts exactly.  Yesterday the headlines were about McCain VP-shopping.  Today, Obama VP-shopping.  

    [ Parent ]
    and who falls right into the trap? (5.00 / 8) (#56)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:35:05 PM EST
    Way too many so-called Clinton supporters.

    Just when Hillary is getting the wind at her back and building a movement, there is no reason to give in and start adopting the Obama frames.

    Where is the psychological fortitude?

    [ Parent ]

    It's destroyed by the hatefulness (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Dr Molly on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:38:32 PM EST
    Sorry.

    [ Parent ]
    Here... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:40:34 PM EST
    ::hug::


    [ Parent ]     </