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Obama 's Maturity

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Thu May 22, 2008 at 08:59:34 PM EST
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A good sign:

[T]his afternoon here in Boca Raton, Barack Obama dropped his strongest hint yet that he'd consider asking Hillary Clinton to--gasp!--join his ticket.

It came in response to a question from a man named Mike, a "50 year" resident of Pompano Beach. "I want to know if you'd consider everybody who is a possible help to you as a running mate," he said. "Even if his or her spouse is an occasional pain in the butt." Obama laughed. No names necessary; he seemed to get the drift. . . .

More...

["]I can tell you this. My goal is to have the best possible government. And that means me winning. So, I'm very practical in my thinking. I'm a practical guy. One of my heroes is Abraham Lincoln. Awhile back, there was a wonderful book written by Doris Kearns Goodwin called 'Team of Rivals,' in which she talked about how Lincoln basically pulled all the people he'd been running against into his Cabinet. Because whatever personal feelings there were, the issue was, 'How can we get the country through this time of crisis?' I think that has to be the approach one takes to the vice president and the Cabinet.["]

Indeed. Well said Senator Obama. We may have the right man yet. These are the words of a wise winning politician.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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    Obama 's Maturity | 97 comments (97 topical)

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    I don't believe for one minute that he would ever (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Angel on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:02:04 PM EST
    seriously consider Hillary.

    Notice how he mentioned the cabinet. (5.00 / 5) (#2)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:04:11 PM EST
    He's was probably thinking something more along the lines of Secretary of Agriculture.  

    I would be stunned if he put her on the ticket and incredibly disappointed if she took the spot.  

    Sorry to be so skeptical, but I think this is just one more example of Team Obama trying to play nice.  I'm not buying it.  

    Oh wait. Maybe he meant he'll (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by oculus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:08:05 PM EST
    consider appointment Bill Clinton to a cabinet position.

    [ Parent ]
    Or he might mean everyone who... (none / 0) (#39)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:30:37 PM EST
    ...ran against him, except Hillary. Heck, he's already got Richardson, Edwards, Biden, and Dodd right?

    [ Parent ]
    Biden (none / 0) (#78)
    by cmugirl on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:03:01 AM EST
    Hasn't endorsed, I think.

    [ Parent ]
    It Is Called Pandering, Not Maturity....He (5.00 / 5) (#44)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:38:31 PM EST
    knows very well he is on thin ice with FLA voters and is going to say anything he needs to say to try to win them over.  He is quite disgusting and transparent.

    [ Parent ]
    Pandering Yes (none / 0) (#96)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:21:11 AM EST
    I agree on this; but what would Hillary gain by being Vice President? I fear that she will be blamed for anything that goes wrong; that she'll be shut out from inner circle discussions; that the only tasks she'll be assigned will be the near-impossible ones, i.e., she'll be set up to fail.  What am I missing?

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, mentioning the cabinet is (none / 0) (#85)
    by rnibs on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:22:06 AM EST
    disconcerting.  I really dislike him and am not sure I'm for the unity pony any more.  However I do have to admit that if he'd straight out said yes, her for VP, that would have gotten people mad too.

    My take is that with all his arrogant steps lately (e.g., Iowa rally on Tuesday declaring himself as something), I think someone's counciled him on treading lightly wrt Clinton and still acting like she's a "formidable opponent" (his latest fave way to refer to her).

    Still, I doubt he'll ask her.  Even though it's his only chance.

    [ Parent ]

    What a guy. This is good news (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by oculus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:05:33 PM EST
    from my perspective, but I don't anticipate many here will agree.

    Yeah, what a guy. The same one who brushed (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by Angel on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:13:22 PM EST
    off his shoulder, wiped his shoe, and scratched his face with his middle finger up, all aimed at Hillary.  What a class act.

    [ Parent ]
    Middle finger? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Same As It Ever Was on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:16:33 PM EST
    You're still focused on imagined slights?

    [ Parent ]
    Nothing imagined about any of these things. (5.00 / 6) (#23)
    by Angel on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:18:17 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    the middle finger was (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:19:22 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I guess (5.00 / 6) (#49)
    by miguelito on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:43:02 PM EST
    it was imagined by the entire audience whooping and hollering at it too.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah the local crowd sure got it. (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by RalphB on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:49:41 PM EST
    I don't believe it was anything other than a flip-off.  It fits with his overall maturity level so well.

    [ Parent ]
    BTD, what about all the posts here ... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by cymro on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:19:10 PM EST
    ... from teachers, parents, and young people familiar with that gesture saying that it looked intentional, not accidental?

    [ Parent ]
    the middle finger gesture was "imagined" (none / 0) (#61)
    by english teacher on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:58:00 PM EST
    but bill clinton's remarks about jesse jackson were over the line?  i like this blog, but you can be ridiculous some times.  so the crowd applauded him because he scratched his face?  get real.

    [ Parent ]
    My problem is that I want action... (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:34:32 PM EST
    ..I'm holding back on my kudos until I see what he actually does. Although I will agree it is an improvement that at least he is being more diplomatic.

    [ Parent ]
    I see that too. (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by dotcommodity on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:41:06 PM EST
    This is a small but measurable attitude improvement.

    [ Parent ]
    I think I will (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Molly Pitcher on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:06:43 PM EST
    hope, with you, that Obama is gaining a bit of wisdom.  That may or may not include some humility, which is often an attribute of wisdom and maturity.

    Maybe he's going to (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:11:53 PM EST
    'get over it'
    recognize 'it's just politics' it was 'nothing personal'  
    to the American people 'Winning in November is the priority'  
    the people have spoken 'there's no better to represent those voices than to join the two who have garneded 34 million votes'

    I disagree with him about one thing....  The best govt is not about him.  Really, it isn't.

    Sure wish he would stop invoking (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:13:16 PM EST
    Lincoln, but I guess, in this context, I'll give him a pass this time.

    [ Parent ]
    Better than Reagan anyway (none / 0) (#72)
    by cawaltz on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:27:05 PM EST
    I can deal with him admiring Lincoln. Reagan is another story. Yuck.

    [ Parent ]
    And that means me winning (5.00 / 7) (#13)
    by catfish on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:14:13 PM EST
    "I can tell you this. My goal is to have the best possible government. And that means me winning."

    Does that sound funny to anybody? Can't picture McCain or Hillary saying that. He should change "me" to "us" or something.

    Clinton supporters would prefer (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by oculus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:15:28 PM EST
    he'd sd.:  that means the Dem. nominee winning.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't you remember that with Obama is it all ME (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by Angel on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:17:12 PM EST
    ME ME.  It's all about ME.

    [ Parent ]
    Nonsense (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:18:38 PM EST
    Now we are seeing Obama Derangement Syndrome.

    [ Parent ]
    Disagree. Study his words, his actions. It's all (5.00 / 7) (#29)
    by Angel on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:20:13 PM EST
    about him.  Not about the party, not about the country, not about anything but him.  My opinion.  

    [ Parent ]
    I Agree. (5.00 / 6) (#36)
    by AmyinSC on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:29:46 PM EST
    This quote says it all: "My goal is to have the best possible government. And that means me winning."

    And acknowledging that does not constitute "Obama Derangement Syndrome," but merely acknowledging his own words.  And no, I don't think this demostrates his "maturity."  

    [ Parent ]

    yeah, exactly (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by kayla on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:42:48 AM EST
    I love this site, but sometimes people say the most outrageous things about Obama.  I don't like the guy, but c'mon.  This is too much.  The other day someone called him a sociopath.  I don't know if that comment was deleted or not, but I think it should have been.  

    I mean, all politicians are egotistical.  How many times has Hillary said "I think I'd make a better president and a better nominee."  Just because most of us here agree with her, doesn't mean it wasn't an arrogant thing to say.  Obama is no different here.

    [ Parent ]

    that's an important point to keep in mind (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by kempis on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:16:33 AM EST
    It's easy to get so caught up in us-them-ness that we slide into demonizing Obama the way that his supporters demonize Hillary. And I'm not lecturing because I do it, too. It's one of those "human nature" things that we all have to monitor in ourselves.

    [ Parent ]
    Sometimes we just have to (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by zfran on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:18:29 AM EST
    say what we hear and see..It's hard to dismiss a guy who appears to believe everything is about him. How many times have we not heard about our country..it's always about him..We do not have to fit into him, he has to fit into us, otherwise, people won't vote for him. It's not about him, it's about America.

    [ Parent ]
    It is about the extent to which (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by BernieO on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:55:26 AM EST
    a politician does this. They all have to talk about themselves some because they are trying to convince us that they are the best choice. The problem comes when most of what they say and do is focused more on themselves than on the people. I noticed when Obama finally rejected Reverend Wright he did not talk about how Wright had insulted the American people, only how he had insulted Obama. In fact, Obama ONLY rejected Wright after he had insulted Obama personally even though it had been clear for weeks that Wright had damned our country. It seems that Obama's words are much more self-referential than most candidates.

    I think the term sociopath is harsh, but it is important for people to realize that there are many narcissists who get into power. These people are bright and very good at charming and manipulating people, but they are all about themselves. They need to be the center of attention and they are nasty when challenged. (Bush is a classic example of this kind of personality.) These people are particularly dangerous because they are able to be charming, even charismatic so that they fool others. (They may not be doing this consciously.) Therefore it is important to pay close attention to what politician say and how they say it in order to get to their underlying motivation. Are they focused more on the needs of our country and our people or are they about winning to prove something about themselves, to gain power for power's sake, etc. Do they help others out of genuine concern or to gain influence.

    I am not sure about Obama, but I am concerned that he may well be a narcisscist. The more I hear from him and learn about him, the more worried I become.

    [ Parent ]

    Only if you are looking (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:18:06 PM EST
    to criticize.

    [ Parent ]
    If you want him to win (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by catfish on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:19:24 PM EST
    things that need to be tweaked need to be tweaked.

    [ Parent ]
    This is not one of them (none / 0) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:23:54 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Back when he was my first choice (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by catfish on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:30:05 PM EST
    my mother and I both picked up on this. Maybe women notice it more than men. And that he's so young, running against McCain, it's just a small thing that he might want to tweak.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree. It irks me too. (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:32:12 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He needs a female advisor (none / 0) (#41)
    by catfish on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:34:04 PM EST
    whose only job is to filter this stuff out!

    [ Parent ]
    You gonna start WORMing now? (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by RalphB on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:51:28 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He doesn't do humble well (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by dianem on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:17:53 PM EST
    Everybody who runs for President is arrogant. It's a requirement. Truly humble people need not apply. But  we expect our candidates to act humble. Obama doesn't do this very well. He tends to keep his chin up like he's getting photographed in a noble pose. Somebody probably told him it looked good. It doesn't. It looks cocky. It may seem silly - but little things matter.  Body language sends messages we sometimes don't intend to send.  

    [ Parent ]
    That's Hill's FAV Book and Prez (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by fctchekr on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:17:00 PM EST
    Barack..not very original! G-d he needs her!

    I think it was a debate or interview question where she was asked who she'd like to date. Her response was Abraham Lincoln.

    Also, quite a long time ago when her team was being criticized for its general malfunctions and failure to get along, she referred to Lincoln's cabinet and the book...

    Suppose the FL law suit will provide some serious blowback; not counting votes isn't something you'd want to start your tenure with..

    Unless of course you're GWB..

    I've thought for a long time that Barack is a (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:59:37 PM EST
    Clinton wanna be.

    [ Parent ]
    Good one! (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by rnibs on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:25:21 AM EST
    Made me laugh.  

    She'd outshine him even from the bottom of the ticket.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't like this comment one bit (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by andgarden on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:19:40 PM EST


    Nice answer (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by sonya on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:21:07 PM EST
    but he's still full of it.  He's just setting things up for his next book.

    The factors that make him absolutely unelectable will still be there in November should the democratic party stay true to form and stupidly make him the nominee.

    My money's still on Hillary.

    Not saying "no" (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by oldpro on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:22:58 PM EST
    is not the same as saying "yes."

    Teenage boys (and some men) have a lot of trouble 'getting that.'  

    (Even some women have to have it spelled out for them:  "No means no!" and "Just say no!")

    Barack isn't spelling it out...he's letting us think he's flirting with the idea.

    My gut says not likely.

    Here is a snippet from the AP (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by oculus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:29:13 PM EST
    article Jeralyn linked to above:

    Many of the people Johnson checked for Kerry will be likely candidates for Obama's consideration. Those names included Sen. Clinton, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, anti-war Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Kerry's eventual choice, former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards.
    Edwards, a one-term Senator (none / 0) (#45)
    by catfish on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:38:36 PM EST
    who started running for pres before his term was up. A good guy with good intentions, but that might not work. Also he was veep last time. Who knows.

    Hagel - when you're running against McCain, Hagel is an odd choice. Who knows, might work.

    Richardson - when I visualize the guy with his post-candidate goatee, I can't help but giggle. Sure, he'd be fine.

    [ Parent ]

    Hagel is a non starter for me (none / 0) (#73)
    by cawaltz on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:28:41 PM EST
    He can put him in a cabinet position but putting him on the ticket is a no no

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah if it's Hagel, why not just vote McCain? (none / 0) (#74)
    by catfish on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:30:30 PM EST
    Something weird there. Well maybe Hagel doesn't have the temper and the old problem.

    [ Parent ]
    Well For Starters (none / 0) (#76)
    by squeaky on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:20:46 AM EST
    Hagel is opposed to the BushCo Iraq War much like Hillary and Obama are. But a vote for McSame is the same as BushCO on Iraq, iow we are not leaving until we win.  

    [ Parent ]
    The thought of (5.00 / 8) (#37)
    by The Realist on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:29:49 PM EST
    Hillary being second chair to a novice with nothing more than a silver tongue, makes me sick to my stomach.

    I hate to say it but, i feel the best thing for the Democratic Party, at this point, is to implode on its own warped ideals.

    Had the DNC been smart they would have encouraged Obama to sit out and take the second chair to Hillary, insuring 16 years of a Democratic administration. It was going to take that long to fix the crap the Repugs broke. As it stands now, if Obama is the Dem nominee, a 4 year Admin is now not even a certainty.

    Agreed (none / 0) (#87)
    by rnibs on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:34:55 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Taken the bait (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by margph on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:43:01 PM EST
    I find it unbelievable at this point that most of the posters here have taken the bait.  Axelrod must be laughing in his soup by now.  You are assuming that he is the nominee before the numbers are all in. It's all about public perception, and he has done a great job of molding it with the help of the MSM.

    Obama's maturity?  No, I don't think so.  He has learned to say the right things, and most of the time he does.  It's those slippery little mistakes that tell more about him than all the rest combined.

    I'm not hearing the same thing (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by joanneleon on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:12:24 PM EST
    that you heard.  I heard him deflect and say that she might be offered a cabinet position, and hint that maybe she'd be considered for the VP slot, but with no more probability than any of the other candidates in this primary.
    These are the words of a pretender to the throne! (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by jackyt on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:23:48 PM EST
    "Indeed. Well said Senator Obama. We may have the right man yet. These are the words of a wise winning politician."

    No, Big T! Just NO!

    A wise and winning politician does not plug his ears and holler la-la-la-la-la-la-la hoping we'll all forget he doesn't yet have the votes to presume anything.

    The fact that it's a media, DNC, Camp-O, BlogBoyz cabal makes it all the worse. They are not just hi-jacking the democratic primary, they're intending to hi-jack the whole enchilada. It's the Bush 2000 coronation all over again, but with even more conspirators.

    The whole thing smacks of advising a rape victim to shut up and take it! No! No! No! No!

    Good Answer (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by squeaky on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:35:42 PM EST
    The Abraham Lincoln idea appeals to a lot of people. And he framed it in a way so that Hillary as Veep is presented as a vital asset for America, not just window dressing to pull in votes.

    I am fine with a unity ticket either way.  It seems like it would be good for the country as well as America's international image.

    You Hear a Different Tune Armando (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by cdalygo on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:58:18 PM EST
    Clinton supporters like me  hear more of his arrogant gushing. All it is him "thinking" about it, while having the opportunity to swipe at at a man who out-classses him on every level. It's like the sullen brat being forced to mumble thank you under his breath.  

    There will be no unity ticket this year unless she is forced to take him as her VP. However, the party seems hell bent on electoral destruction so that will not be an issue. But if enough insiders get to "feel good" about themselves then nothing else matters.

    low class (none / 0) (#68)
    by RalphB on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:18:14 PM EST
    Well I guess this is better than the woman who asked McCain how he'd beat the b!tch, but not by that much...

    "Even if his or her spouse is an occasional pain in the butt."

    Of course when Obama laughs at this kind of disrespect, it's just marvelous.  Jeez.


    [ Parent ]

    I agree, (none / 0) (#88)
    by Leisa on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:45:13 AM EST
    laughing at this statement did not show maturity to me at all.


    [ Parent ]
    He says what you want to hear. (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by chopper on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:15:12 PM EST
    Obama has a habit of kissing up to all sides at the same time.

    I often wonder what would happen if the sides got together.

    So, I  wouldn't believe a word he says about anything.

    So (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:25:45 PM EST
    his CONSIDERING doing about the only thing that has a slight chance of helping him win in November is a sign of maturity?

    This is the guy who had to wipe the Clinton (and by indirection, her supporters) off his shoe.

    Yep, so mature.  That's the only reason he's doing it, because he's mature.  

    Actually, this is the petulant's way.  Be an absolute jerk (Clinton's a RACIST!!!!!), then suddenly, when you need something, be nice and everyone's supposed to forgive you.

    Sorry, but sometimes one can forgive, but only after the "crime" has met the fitting punnishment.  And that hasn't happened yet.  As far as I'm concerned the only fitting punnishment is an Obama run, delayed until 2016.

    The Metamorphosis of Obama (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by makana44 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 02:47:00 AM EST
    It's stunning that we are discussing the alleged presumptive Democratic nominee for President, and the topic is whether he has finally reached some level of personal maturity. One would have thought that to arrive at this position his supporters (not to mention the media and his own party) would have demanded he already irrefutably have attained that level of maturity. It's like a a scene from Dali's 'The Metamorphosis of Narcissus.' (Wherein Narcissus falls in love with his own reflection in a pool and, unable to embrace that image, pines away until the gods immortalize him as a flower.)

    And the thought of Hillary Clinton stepping forward as the immature one's savior by running as his VP, is like a chapter out of Kafka's 'Metamorphosis' (wherein our hero Gregor awakens to find himself transformed into a monstrous vermin).

    Surrealism abounds.

    I see little (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by kenoshaMarge on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:12:29 AM EST
    maturity in laughing when some bozo calls a former Democratic President a "pain in the butt". Perhaps that too is just because I dislike Obama and his "tone" that all too often reminds me of the "frat" boy style of GWB.

    I would far rather see Senator Clinton return to her seat in the Senate if and when that becomes necessary.

    For many women the thought of the more experienced, harder-working, smarter, woman taking a secondary place to the "male" once again will remind them of all the times it has happened to them or their friends, acquaintances and family.
    It reinforces the "woman's place is second place" that many of us feel all too often.

    Many men, most men, don't understand that feeling and never will. But many women, especially working women will. I will not vote for Obama just because Senator Clinton is on the ticket. HE will still be president and she will have nothing to say about anything.

    If and when I hope Senator Clinton goes back to her seat in the Senate. Bobby Kennedy's seat. She can be far more effective there.

    I felt this way also (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by A little night musing on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:36:19 AM EST
    maturity in laughing when some bozo calls a former Democratic President a "pain in the butt". Perhaps that too is just because I dislike Obama and his "tone" that all too often reminds me of the "frat" boy style of GWB.

    He may be trying to "make nice" but with his usual tin ear for nuance (as far as I'm concerned), ir doesn't work for me.

    And am I the only one who read his Abraham Lincoln line, not as a hint that he would consider asking HRC to be VP, but as just more of his Unity shtick signalling willingness to appoint Republicans? He has pretty much been saying that all along, I think, and it's one of the things that leaves me cold about his campaign. I just don't see our problam as being that Democrats have been too partisan - quite the opposite.

    He managed to say nothing that would have reassured me in the quoted words, and the tone doesn't reassure either.

    (And I would also prefer that Hillary Clinton stay in the Senate, but as my Senator from NY if you please! And as Senate Majority Leader. She would have much more influence there, and she's earned it.)

    [ Parent ]

    She would be doing just that. (none / 0) (#83)
    by kenoshaMarge on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:14:34 AM EST
    After JFK's assassination in 1963, RFK continued as Attorney Genereral under LBJ for 9 months. He resigned in 1964 and was elected as the Senator from New York that November

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy


    [ Parent ]

    Oops, (none / 0) (#98)
    by A little night musing on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:56:34 PM EST
    When I replied to your comment I somehow read "Bobby Kennedy" as "Teddy Kannedy". Which I thought was rather premature, but didn't want to say anything...

    My mistake!

    [ Parent ]

    That was my reaction (none / 0) (#92)
    by BernieO on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:01:57 AM EST
    It was a very immature, unpresidential thing to say. I think the fact that we have had Bush for so many years it has made us too used to inappropriate behavior. It is dumb statement, especially when a big concern about you is that you are too young for the job.


    [ Parent ]
    That sounds like a "maybe" to me (none / 0) (#6)
    by andgarden on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:10:25 PM EST
    Or perhaps he really is thinking of putting. . .Chuck Hagel (*!) on the ticket.

    I Vote For A "Maybe" (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:16:18 PM EST
    The comment also covers putting Hagel in as Sec. of Defense and Lugar in as Sec. of State which are ideas that he has put forth in the past. Lot of opportunities to play WORM with this statement.

    [ Parent ]
    Funny How The Two State Polls That Consider (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:19:52 PM EST
    VP candidates have Hagel as a possible VP for Obama. What has been missing is Hillary as a possible running mate.

    [ Parent ]
    What can you tell us about Hagel's spouse? (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:12:11 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    First rule of politics (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by andgarden on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:13:21 PM EST
    Always respond to the question you wish you'd been asked.

    [ Parent ]
    Formatting (none / 0) (#12)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:13:56 PM EST
    Has anyone's formatting changed?  I used to have mine set on nested and when the comments were full it would automatically thread.  Now on nested it is defaulting to flat.

    Any suggestions?

    Walden....I would love to help you, but you (4.50 / 2) (#47)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:41:52 PM EST
    would be so much worse off....sorry.

    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 0) (#14)
    by Same As It Ever Was on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:15:16 PM EST
    there's a reason he's winning. He's made mistakes, but he's good.  

    I still doubt he will offer the VP spot to Clinton.  But it's good that he quashes all this talk of not wanting her on the ticket.  He should set up a process and pick the best person.  If he does that, she's got to be high on the list, if not at the top.

    He's kind of popular in Illinois. nt (none / 0) (#21)
    by Same As It Ever Was on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:17:38 PM EST


    I think he will... (none / 0) (#33)
    by mike in dc on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:28:22 PM EST
    ...give every qualified candidate due consideration,  and if, after the vetting process, internal polling and personal interviews/interactions with the top candidates, Sen. Clinton happens to be the best choice, I'm sure he won't hesitate to offer her the job.

    If he doesn't pick her, it will likely be the case that the vetting process, internal polling and personal interaction/interview process indicated someone else was a better choice.

    The only words I agree with in your comment (none / 0) (#43)
    by Dr Molly on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:34:46 PM EST
    'internal polling'

    [ Parent ]
    You watched teebee today (none / 0) (#69)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:19:00 PM EST
    You are saying word for word what talking heads said on teebee today.  Dukakis and others used the exact same language today and when Dukakis was asked if having Clinton would unify the divisions he said no.

    [ Parent ]
    They said it.... (none / 0) (#90)
    by mike in dc on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:53:53 AM EST
    ...because it's the correct response.  If Clinton's the best candidate for VP(helps the ticket the most, has the least baggage, gets along with the guy at the top without creating distractions, is ready to take over and implement the same agenda if something horrible happens), then she gets the pick.  If someone else is, then sorry, she doesn't get the pick.

    It's not a fracking consolation prize, and shouldn't be treated that way.  

    [ Parent ]

    It's not a frakking consolation prize (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:22:45 AM EST
    and your attitude that if it was offered to her it would be is, the incorrect response.  She is the most qualified.  Some people can't be past the sexist attitude that Clinton would not be where she is, if not for a marriage which frankly, is cr@p.  Clinton has the blend of qualifications that are best suited to the challenges of the times.  If Clinton was a man, Obama would select her.  NO ONE has Clinton's qualifications.  The two of them bring 34 million voters and both have campaigns on the ground ready to go.

    [ Parent ]
    There are... (none / 0) (#95)
    by mike in dc on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:34:41 AM EST
    ...about 300+ elected Democrats in the House, Senate and Governorships nationwide, many of whom would be qualified for the job.  There are another 50+ former elected officials, including Gore and Edwards, who would be qualified for the position.  There are prominent Democrats from civilian and military backgrounds, such as Gen. Clark, who'd be qualified for the job.

    Clinton is more qualified than...

    ...Gov. Sebelius?
    ...Sen. Boxer?
    ...Sen. Feinstein?
    ...Gov. Napolitano?
    ...Speaker Pelosi?

    That seems like hyperbole to me.  

    She can get offered the gig after her qualifications, pros and cons are compared with all other suitable prospective candidates, bare minimum.

    To offer her the job without even considering other candidates would definitely make it look like she was being offered a consolation prize.

    [ Parent ]

    Why yes, yes she is (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:07:16 PM EST
    more qualified than Gore! or Edwards!  pffft   and she is more qualified than those other women.  She is considered to be the most powerful woman in politics today and that isn't because of her name it's because she works hard.  Nice to see you think they are interchangeable.  Now I know where you're coming from.

    Oh BTW, she's a h3ll of a lot more qualified than Obama and that isn't the least bit of an exaggeration.

    [ Parent ]

    Boxer... (none / 0) (#99)
    by mike in dc on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:21:43 PM EST
    ...is a US Senator from the biggest state in the country, and has been in elected office 3 times as long as Sen. Clinton.
    Ditto for Feinstein and Pelosi.  Napolitano is a 2 term governor, and both her and Sebelius were rated as among the 5 most effective governors in the country.

    Actually, Pelosi is the most powerful woman in politics today.  Clinton has a constituency, yes, but she's still the junior senator from New York.

    I mentioned potential female candidates to point out that there are many potential VPs who are as or more qualified than Clinton, including several other prominent women who have been around longer in elected office and paid more dues than she has.

    [ Parent ]

    Veep (none / 0) (#34)
    by norris morris on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:28:36 PM EST
    It's hard to know how Obama will resolve much of the ill will HRC supporters feel. I don't know if he'll offer her VP, or if she even wants it.

    We wait.

    I've got the solution (none / 0) (#50)
    by Exeter on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:59:14 PM EST
    Obama is too proud to ask Hillary. Hillary is to proud to beg. Prior to 1960 the tradition was for the candidate to let the convention delegates pick the VP. Obama could make such a gesture, saying it would be the first part of his change agenda. Then the convention would pick Clinton. Voila. Done.

    when has he ever practiced what he preaches? (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by Kathy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:07:37 PM EST
    One instance would be nice, then I would believe he wasn't just blowing smoke with this comment.  What's he going to say other than what he said?  He's just smooth talkin'.

    [ Parent ]
    The Constitution makes (none / 0) (#53)
    by zfran on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:13:48 PM EST
    reference that the person coming in second is the vice president. Someone perhaps could verify that I read it correctly.

    [ Parent ]
    Surely you know he and his people (none / 0) (#55)
    by masslib on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:26:47 PM EST
    are totally against her as VP.  A cabinet position is an insult.

    Hillary for McCain (none / 0) (#57)
    by hwebb54 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:40:37 PM EST
    I'm still not voting for Obama even if Hillary is the VP. I know that she really doesn't want him to win and I don't either. This man is dangerous and not worthy of the Presidency. Anyone can see that he is lying about his views and would take this country into places I don't think we can even imagine. Be afraid, be very afraid of Barack Obama.

    Yes (3.00 / 2) (#58)
    by squeaky on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:42:30 PM EST
    One of the signs of a cultist is that they believe that the end is near.

    [ Parent ]
    Another Sign (none / 0) (#75)
    by cdalygo on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:40:38 PM EST
    Is that they ignore both history and facts rather than admit their mistakes have led to disaster. I highly recommend Barbara Tuchman's essays entitled "The March of Folly."

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#64)
    by Steve M on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:09:00 PM EST
    Al Giordano's credibility is on the line here!

    Colin Powell and the WMD Sales Pitch (none / 0) (#65)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:10:25 PM EST
    to the UN makes him an absolute NO WAY for VP.

    Bah Humbug (none / 0) (#89)
    by DancingOpossum on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:46:25 AM EST
    For political reasons, Obama should, and probably will, ask her. And for many many many reasons she should, and probably will, decline. I suspect they both know this.

    Hillary as his VP would be utter humiliation. As usual she would have to do all the work while he gets all the credit. No thanks. And if he thinks we disaffected Dems will vote for him if he does so, he could be in for a rude awakening.

    Anyone seen the latest poll that shows Obama losing Massachusetts? Great. Just great.

    Obama 's Maturity | 97 comments (97 topical)

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