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Hillary's Speech on Florida and Michigan

What a great speech. The transcript is here.

We may get to the convention after all. From a newer version of the earlier AP article:

Asked if she now envisioned the race extending beyond June 3, Clinton replied: "It could, I hope it doesn't. I hope it's resolved to everyone's satisfaction by that date, because that's what people are expecting, but we'll have to see what happens."

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  • Display: Sort:
    WOW what a tough cookie and populist (5.00 / 16) (#1)
    by athyrio on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:54:07 PM EST
    she has turned out to be...Bill Clinton has stated on several occasions that Hillary is by far the most qualified person in modern history to be president including himself and I now see what he means....I stand in awe of her (and I wasn't a supporter at the beginning of this mess)

    It was a pretty awesome speech (5.00 / 11) (#3)
    by americanincanada on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:57:30 PM EST
    and I say that as a Floridian who got chills watching it.

    [ Parent ]
    Awesome indeed! (5.00 / 9) (#12)
    by felizarte on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:08:00 PM EST
    Her voice modulation is perfect.  Her speech cadence is perfect.  Her logic is impeccable with the right mixture of nobility in her thought patterns.  I think we are seeing the evolution of an orator that finally catches the imagination of the people. Bravo Hillary!

    [ Parent ]
    if we nominate Obama (5.00 / 14) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:00:43 PM EST
    it wont just be stupid.  it will be tragic.  a gigantic missed opportunity.
    IMO

    [ Parent ]
    I agree... (5.00 / 7) (#26)
    by Stellaaa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:18:46 PM EST
    tragic that once again we will be plunged into mediocre candidates to choose from.  Wow, this speech was amazing.

    [ Parent ]
    exaggerate much? (1.00 / 2) (#24)
    by sarissa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:17:25 PM EST
    Missed opportunity, certainly - tragic, not so much.

    [ Parent ]
    all the time. (5.00 / 6) (#29)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:20:36 PM EST
    this wasnt one of those times.
    tragic.  absolutely.  because, almost certainly, we will lose and because even if we win I think we will be sorry.

    [ Parent ]
    It could be very tragic (5.00 / 5) (#31)
    by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:21:05 PM EST
    and we could end up losing congress and 2012/beyond.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes tragic (5.00 / 8) (#34)
    by ChuckieTomato on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:24:07 PM EST
    because some people, maybe not us, are living paycheck to paycheck with no health care or childcare, maybe no job or lack of education.

    some people are voting because they are desperate to improve their lives, to have REAL hope.
     

    [ Parent ]

    democrats (5.00 / 4) (#126)
    by Hope on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:49:48 PM EST
    Be they Democrat or Republican count the vote of all citizens.

    Those are who don't count the vote aren't democrats. They live in Zimbabwe, where they steal the government from the people. They live in North Korea. They live in Iran.

    This is why the President of the United States of America does not go cap in hand to foreign despots.

    Democrats count the vote.

    I'm in tears here. Hillary reminds me of my Mum; who isn't here any more because of the discrimination women have suffered. Because our health care system wasn't good enough. But who taught me everything important I know. Democracy is our greatest achievement; it is our greatest wealth. It is what all humanity aspires to.

    Remember the Iraqis who risked their lives to have  an imperfect version of what we have had for so many years? They know that democracy is our greatest gift to the world.

    Democrats count the vote.

    Floridian and Michigan citizens' voices count.

    Democrats count the vote.

    [ Parent ]

    She's Fighting For Her Voters (none / 0) (#211)
    by Athena on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:39:39 PM EST
    Hillary has every right to fight for HER voters - that would only verify the trust that they put in her when they voted.

    Isn't that what representing people is all about?

    [ Parent ]

    do you think it was "tragic" (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by sancho on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:31:44 PM EST
    that bush was elected intead of gore? I know some people who do and also think that the wrong election decisions can be tragic. but these views of course vary according to the perspective.

    [ Parent ]
    yes (5.00 / 8) (#77)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:34:47 PM EST
    I believe I said one tragic part is that McCain will be the next president.
    but it is only one possibly tragic future if Obama is the nominee.

    [ Parent ]
    Absolutely -- look at the consequences (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by cymro on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:24:36 PM EST
    I have no doubt that future historians will conclude that the selection of Bush as President, when Gore was the candidate rightly elected, was a tragic and costly mistake. The consequences severely damaged the nation's standing in the world, politically and economically, in ways that are irreparable in the short term, and will have long-term repercussions for many decades.

    I also agree that failing to elect Hillary when she is far and away the most qualified candidate could turn out to have similar tragic consequences, certainly for the Democratic Party, if not for the nation, although only time will tell.

    [ Parent ]

    Shades of December 2000 (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by blogtopus on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:31:39 PM EST
    You're right. I often feel that with Gore as President, he may not have been loved, but we would have been in much better shape.

    You don't what you got 'till it's gone...

    Having the ObaMessiah in the captain's seat gives me chills. At least McCain's supporters aren't as dogmatically rooting for him (remember how much he's despised by standard GOP?) as Obama's are. Fainting, heh.

    [ Parent ]

    I'd love to hear from you (none / 0) (#165)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:01:06 PM EST
    What part of the bush administration hasn't been tragic. The war, the demise of our international image and relations, or the economy?

    [ Parent ]
    I completely agree (none / 0) (#220)
    by frankly0 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:45:05 PM EST
    The one thing I'll grant Obama is that he has served as a nearly perfect foil for Hillary to show who she was, and who she was not.

    Given previous preconceptions of Hillary, I doubt that people would regard her as a working class hero -- as they clearly do now -- if she could not define herself in contrast to Obama.

    Obama, by his manner and background, quickly to represent and attract the always ugly elitist component of the Democratic Party. Hillary's natural but mostly latent appeal to the working class rose in clear relief to Obama's radically different appeal.

    This made her an almost perfect candidate for the general election -- far more so than she might have been beforehand. I don't see how a "Feminazi" smear could possibly work against her at this point.

    But the Democrats, who will always find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, will not seem to allow her to emerge as the nominee.

    Truly tragic.

    [ Parent ]

    She certainly knows how & when (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by felizarte on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:02:46 PM EST
    to focus on an issue. I totally agree with your observation.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, she's certainly qualified but... (1.00 / 5) (#32)
    by sarissa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:21:58 PM EST
    as a feminist it somewhat irks me that our only serious contenders for the highest officers of the land seem to be wives of past/present candidates (e.g Geraldine Ferraro, Elizabeth Dole, Hillary Clinton).

    [ Parent ]
    Ferraro? (5.00 / 6) (#36)
    by Emma on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:24:27 PM EST
    Was her husband a presidential candidate?  Really?

    [ Parent ]
    Please do not embarrass (5.00 / 9) (#39)
    by Stellaaa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:24:49 PM EST
    yourself with such contentions.  Hillary Clinton is Hillary Clinton.  She is not "just a wife".  No feminist would ever, in 25 reincarnations say that.  So, take your self away.  

    [ Parent ]
    by the name I assume you are female (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:25:19 PM EST
    Im sorry, that just seems a very odd thing for a woman to say.

    [ Parent ]
    ever been through a divorce? (none / 0) (#52)
    by sarissa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:27:06 PM EST
    It's not odd at all.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, I have -- a hellish (5.00 / 4) (#113)
    by Cream City on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:45:28 PM EST
    battle over custody and more that put me and my children back into poverty for years, etc. . . .

    That still doesn't make your comment either cogent or correct.  You clearly know nothing about the three women you name.  But we already know a lot about you, without even knowing your name -- because we have met your like before.

    [ Parent ]

    Totally agree (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by indiependy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:26:04 PM EST
    I've always wondered why someone like Barbara Boxer hasn't been made a contender. She's easily got more experience, credentials, and liberal cred than anyone else out there. And to your point, she's done it all on her own.

    [ Parent ]
    Boxer will be lucky (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:28:37 PM EST
    to keep her senate seat.  suggesting "wives" only run for the presidency is sad.


    [ Parent ]
    Hyperbole much? (1.00 / 1) (#97)
    by indiependy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:41:11 PM EST
    Her electoral margins have increased each time she has sought re-election. In 2004 she won her Senate seat by 20%. She's one of the most experienced and accomplished Senators around, male or female. And her Democratic stances on issues has been impeccable.

    I don't agree with, nor never suggested, the notion that there's anything wrong with a wife of a politician running. However, it's incredibly inspirational to see someone like Boxer get where she has without anyone being able to say "well if not for her husband..."

    [ Parent ]

    Isn't Arnie gonna make a run (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:43:08 PM EST
    for her seat?

    Do you think B Clinton would have ever become President without Hillary?

    [ Parent ]

    No I don't (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Hope on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:58:37 PM EST
    And I bet you any money, Bill himself would be the first to admit it.

    [ Parent ]
    Someone told me a joke once (5.00 / 2) (#185)
    by MMW on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:13:28 PM EST
    When Bill was President, He and Hillary drove up to a Gas station. Bill looked out the window at the gas attendent and asked Hill, "Isn't that the guy you went out with before you started seeing me?" Hillary looks at the guy and says "Yes, that is him". Bill turns around and says, "See where you would have been if you hadn't picked me?"

    Hillary smiled and answered, "No Bill. HE would have been President."

    [ Parent ]

    not what I am hearing from CA (none / 0) (#111)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:45:20 PM EST
    democrats.
    we will see.

    [ Parent ]
    for the record (none / 0) (#118)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:46:03 PM EST
    I worked hard for Boxer in the 90s.  she is not a presidential candidate.


    [ Parent ]
    Really? (none / 0) (#176)
    by indiependy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:05:04 PM EST
    Not sure why CA Dems would say that. There's certainly not going to be a primary challenger and Arnie as a Senator is a pretty big stretch, especially in 2010 when a lot of the problems he's kicking the can down the road on will be rising up.

    Why is she "not a presidential candidate"? Her experience, accomplishments, causes, and credentials are stronger than those of Hillary and Barack combined. As a party the Democrats need way more like her, voting against the war resolution, going toe to toe with Condi Rice and this administration, opposing Bush nominations, leading the battle to block ANWR drilling, passing good economic bills, etc., etc.

    [ Parent ]

    Please go straight to Halifax (none / 0) (#150)
    by angie on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:57:49 PM EST
    do not pass "go" do not collect $200. The fact that you think it would find it "inspiring" that no one can say "well if not for her husband" about Boxer is mind-blowingly insipid. The only people who say "well if not for her husband" about Hillary Clinton or any other powerful females are grade-A certified morons who will find something negative to say about any woman in power and thus their opinions count for less then nothing.

    [ Parent ]
    Seriously, Boxer would be (none / 0) (#79)
    by sarissa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:35:03 PM EST
    a great candidate.  Perhaps being female and Jewish has hurt her?  I don't know, but she's got a great resume.

    [ Parent ]
    She's also from that REALLY, SCARY (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:41:14 PM EST
    LIBERAL SF, CA area  ;)  IIRC, she lives in Marin, which some consider worse. lol!~

     

    [ Parent ]

    Nobody makes anyone a contender. (none / 0) (#210)
    by felizarte on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:38:44 PM EST
    An individual has to decide to compete.  I suppose it is different with Obama.  Certainly, someone or several people MADE him a contender.  Geraldine Ferraro alluded to that.

    But, those things aside, fact is, Hillaryh is the contender and she has the right qualifications and qualities to be one and the NOMINEE and after that, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.  

    [ Parent ]

    as a feminist it irks me that (5.00 / 5) (#106)
    by sancho on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:44:09 PM EST
    a male candidate with little national experience and severe electability issues can be promoted so easily to nominee over a clearly more qualified (female)candidate. but maybe if the female candidate had senior men supporting her--kennedy, kerry, dean, carter--i'd feel better about the "young man's" early promotion. in that case, his promotion would more clearly be on merit than old boys club terms. but for some reason the senior men went with the fresh "junior" colleague over the "experienced' (her again?) woman.

     here are some questions for we feminists to ask ourselves: which woman is "senior" to hillary clinton in terms of the office she seeks? who is her role model who has the office or position to which she aspires? no one, except, arguably, geraldine ferrarro and we see how much respect she has been accorded this election cycle. clinton's fight for the nomination is one of the most amazing, inpsiring political stories in our country's history. thre has never been one like it.  

    obama's story is inspiring too, and it is, in a sense, silly and demeaning to compare them, but i think the gender barrier is higher, more entrenched than the racial one. colin powell, condi rice, jesse jackson, ron brown all precede obama and make his arrival not so surprising. given that he is the elite white male's favorite candidate (in pointed contradiction to hillary), his "rise" is not at all surprising.

    hillary' election quest story, however, has no precedent in our nation's history.

    count the votes!  

    [ Parent ]

    Not to take away from your fine comment (5.00 / 6) (#130)
    by Cream City on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:52:04 PM EST
    but in the interests of being factual, again -- Clinton also is preceded by dozens of women who have run for president (and dozens who have achieved high positions -- before Condi Rice, hello, there was Madeline Albright).  

    The difference is that of all those women, not a one ever won a primary.  Clinton clinched that historic marker many months ago -- and since then, she has made history again by winning so many that she remains in serious contention . . . and clinched another historical marker a month ago, when she became the first candidate, woman or man, in any party, every to win so many primary votes.

    So the difference is -- well, it's Hillary Rodham Clinton, the most qualified woman and most qualified candidate, according to the voters.  That used to mean something.  Maybe it will again.

    [ Parent ]

    As a feminist it really irks me (5.00 / 5) (#134)
    by angie on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:53:47 PM EST
    when people don't know what being a feminist means.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by Hope on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:54:37 PM EST
    But most other women leaders have to up till now. You have to brak the ceiling.

    Plus I don't see why being a wife should disqualify you. Should Michelle Obama be denied her chance too? Or Cindy McCain? Or Herr Merkel? Would not Eleanor Roosevelt made a good president?

    [ Parent ]

    Wasn't Hillary named one of the most (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by kayla on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:08:05 PM EST
    influential women in America before Bill was even president?

    The notion that a woman should not apply to a job that her husband has already had is bs.  Especially when talking about Hillary Clinton.

    [ Parent ]

    I must have been sleeping for those (none / 0) (#170)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:03:32 PM EST
    administrations. What years did President Dole govern? And, President Ferraro (who, wasn't even in politics)?

    [ Parent ]
    As a feminist it irkes me (none / 0) (#174)
    by americanincanada on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:04:47 PM EST
    when women are not aware of how many women who have held a position of power in the world have done so through family connections, whether that be husband, father, brother etc.

    [ Parent ]
    My translation: (5.00 / 18) (#2)
    by andgarden on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:57:10 PM EST
    Seat the FL and MI delegates, or we're going to the convention. I think that's a winning hand for the moment.

    It is a winning hand (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by americanincanada on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:58:38 PM EST
    Even CNN's John King said last night that if they seat those delegates as is the math improves considerably for Senator Clinton.

    [ Parent ]
    Here, here we go to convention... or beyond... (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by Exeter on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:04:05 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    She has the most votes (5.00 / 7) (#17)
    by ChuckieTomato on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:11:38 PM EST
    It should go to the convention because she has a better argument. Look at the electoral map.

    I don't see how a democrat wins without winning at least three out of four, Michigan, Florida, West Virginia and Ohio

    [ Parent ]

    I'm Happy To See Her Play Hardball (5.00 / 12) (#43)
    by BDB on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:25:46 PM EST
    It's taken awhile for her to work her way into a position to do it.  But with the odds more likely she'll lead in the popular vote, her crushing defeats of Obama in WVA and KY and her other recent wins, especially in PA, and her improved GE polling, she's finally there.

    The Dem. leadership has always been weak and Obama has been trying to roll them since February.  Between her improved electoral position and the groundswell of anger by her supporters with the party, it helps balance the pressure.  Good.

    [ Parent ]

    Heck I'm Happy To See A Dem Actually Up (5.00 / 5) (#137)
    by MO Blue on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:54:51 PM EST
    and fight for something. Too few have for too long.

    [ Parent ]
    Is that what they meant (5.00 / 2) (#205)
    by blogtopus on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:36:47 PM EST
    when they said Hillary isn't a Democrat? :-)

    [ Parent ]
    yes. count the votes (5.00 / 4) (#62)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:31:21 PM EST
    its a no lose strategy.  the opposing argument is, what, dont count the votes?


    [ Parent ]
    As far as I'm concerned (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Hope on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:55:32 PM EST
    We're doing both.

    [ Parent ]
    I honestly dont understand (5.00 / 14) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:59:15 PM EST
    shy everyone is so freaked by the idea of a real convention.
    I think it sound exciting.  a REAL convention.  not a 4 day informercial for Obama.


    Obama, DNC terrified of being exposed (5.00 / 13) (#13)
    by Davidson on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:08:10 PM EST
    I believe they're scared of everyone realizing what an utter disgrace this has been: to realize that the only way Obama "won" the nomination was the disenfranchisement of two entire states and caucuses in red states.  Also: they'll be more backlash if there's the open misogyny that many Obama supporters can't seem to stop themselves from engaging in.  It's one thing for a bigot rally to break out at a state convention, but to have the anti-female intolerance and hatred shown on national--and international--television is another matter.

    The house of cards will fall apart if this goes to the convention.  The fact that Clinton is likely to beat McCain while Obama is simply unelectable makes it all the more absurdly obvious.  They can steal the nomination from Clinton and give it to Obama but everyone will see it for what it is: a travesty.

    [ Parent ]

    all these unity ponies running around i (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by hellothere on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:11:22 PM EST
    guess will have to go back to the barn. the obama campaign now will have to get back to business as usual if hillary goes to the convention.

    [ Parent ]
    ha (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:15:22 PM EST
    a regular Augean Stables with Hillary in the role of Hercules.

    [ Parent ]
    Better Watch Where You Step :) (none / 0) (#61)
    by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:31:21 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    dont worry (none / 0) (#71)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:33:33 PM EST
    Hillcules will clean all the pony droppings from that convention floor if she has to divert the Colorado river.

    [ Parent ]
    misogyny????? (5.00 / 6) (#40)
    by Monda on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:24:59 PM EST
    What is this?  

    From a blogger at NoQ (I don't watch MSM)

    On CNN a few moments ago, analyst Jeffery Toobin argued that Hillary was right when she said in an interview that coverage of the race has been "sexist," buttressing his case by pointing to a recent newspaper column suggesting that Hillary is a "white *itch." Toobin, unsurprisingly, took issue with this, saying that it was "appalling" that this was considered acceptable.

    "Some women, by the way, are named that, and it's accurate," Castellanos said. He went on to buttress his case by pointing out that Hillary is "abrasive, aggressive, irritating."

    What's amusing about this is that Castellanos actually argued that it's sometimes accurate to call a woman a "*itch" as a way of making the claim that Hillary was wrong to argue that there's sexism in our political coverage. Pretty twisted stuff.

    I repeat, what the hell is this?  If this great woman, US Senator, former first lady of the country and of a state can be called names on CNN, what can we expect for the rest of us?!!!!!

    [ Parent ]

    Castellanos Is A Bigger Biatch Than Hillary (5.00 / 5) (#70)
    by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:33:15 PM EST
    could ever hope to be....I do not recommend watching him EVER.  As for Toobin, it is about time he said something relevant and smart...he is such a sheople...

    [ Parent ]
    I hate that (5.00 / 6) (#88)
    by Evie on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:37:43 PM EST
    NOBODY bothered to point out that people would never call an "abrasive, aggressive, irritating" MAN a b!tch, let alone print that in a newspaper column.

    They call her that name because she is a woman.


    [ Parent ]

    misogyny????? (5.00 / 4) (#93)
    by delacarpa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:39:43 PM EST
    I have become a Fox News girl because of the "Best Political Team" not. Tired of all of them. Tired of the grey headed guy who has made millions off of Hillary and Bill that slams them when he is on, Jack who slams Hillary every day, and this guy needed a slap down yesterday.

    [ Parent ]
    Saw that. He ought to be fired, period (5.00 / 3) (#160)
    by Cream City on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:59:50 PM EST
    and never brought back, if he were appearing on a reputable network.

    CNN disgraced itself in the same minute, when Blitzer did not say something.  CNN disgraced itself in a few minutes more, when it went to commercial and came back -- and Castellanos still was there.  

    CNN has disgraced itself every minute since by not issuing an apology, not only to Clinton but also to the people of New York who elected her and the people of this country whom she served as First Lady.  

    Fox continues to rise in my estimation, by comparison to the other networks.  That is a sad  statement on the status of journalism today -- and an even sadder statement on the situation of all of us subjected to those who exercise only freedom of speech without exercising its concomitant responsibility.

    I would complain to the FCC, but it's useless these days, too.  I wish I could recall who were the commercial sponsors on CNN last night.  I would watch now for names of CNN sponsors, but it is another network off my list now.

    [ Parent ]

    Caucuses are a disgrace (none / 0) (#171)
    by Hope on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:03:57 PM EST
    Because you can make the opposite argument for Obama, he won them but because they would be considered undemocratic in a dictatorship in Africa (even Mugabe doesn't do caucuses!); he has less political capital from them. They actually weaken his case. No-one knows what the results would have been if they had been real primaries. No-one.

    [ Parent ]
    Okay Now Hold Up (none / 0) (#183)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:12:05 PM EST
    First, I am hardcore 100% will-take-a-bullet for Hillary supporter.

    But I will NOT bemoan Barack the victories he has won.  For a guy with a name like Barack Obama to win in places like WI and IA, I give the man credit.  I have said before that politics is a contact sport.  Here in TX his people participated in less than ethical behavior during the caucuses.

    But Barack has won.  Albeit in places where Dems would NEVER win, but, hey, he won.  I do think that if Barack wins the nomination he would be an illegitimate nominee.

    But don't belittle his victories, that's the tone I get from this posting.

    [ Parent ]

    and they wonder why no one even (5.00 / 7) (#14)
    by hellothere on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:09:48 PM EST
    watches conventions anymore. take the vote there and it will GET VERY BIG AUDIENCES.

    [ Parent ]
    it would be huge. (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:11:42 PM EST
    which, as the other commenter said, is probably why they are freaked.

    [ Parent ]
    Better Not Play It Up Too Much, Or The DNC (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:34:50 PM EST
    will want to make it pay-per-view.  Heard they are hurting for money... :)

    Seriously, this HAS to go to the convention!!

    GO HILLARY....


    [ Parent ]

    Heh. (5.00 / 0) (#121)
    by madamab on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:47:44 PM EST
    Wouldn't put it past them to charge for the event - which would be quite a show!

    [ Parent ]
    We could all pitch in to cover the cost and have (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:17:14 PM EST
    a giant TL pot luck....how fun would that be?

    [ Parent ]
    We could all pitch in to cover the cost and have (none / 0) (#186)
    by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:14:43 PM EST
    a giant TL pot luck....how fun would that be?

    [ Parent ]
    It would be a poor return for MLK (none / 0) (#218)
    by blogtopus on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:43:56 PM EST
    if Obama's fans cause a riot at the convention hall on his big speech day.

    I can see it now: 'someone' calls 'someone' the n-word, with no verification of the identity. Accusations fly, the racism auto-response goes on full power. Then all hell breaks loose as Obama's fans, of all colors and creed, run rampant over the older generation in the convention hall. It will be spectacularly destructive and will end any chance at a Dem victory in the fall.

    Later on, with cell phone cameras, we learn that both people involved were Obama staffers.

    Hey, it worked in the other election fiasco, why not here?

    [ Parent ]

    I've wondered about that too, Capt. (5.00 / 5) (#19)
    by felizarte on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:14:53 PM EST
    For once, we will have TV coverage of suspenseful events.  For once, those in the media who are not true journalists will be out of their element--away from their sets and unable to control the script.  I have an impish delight just thinking about it.

    This is truly going to be a figurative hand-to-hand combat; in the trenches.  On to So. Dakota, Montana and Puerto Rico AND the C O N V E N T I O N !

    [ Parent ]

    yes! (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:15:55 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I'm with you. (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Marco21 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:55:48 PM EST
    If this party can't survive its own convention, it doesn't deserve to survive.

    I posted yesterday about  Obama supporters sounding like they've already lost the GE  and are using anything Hillary does as the scapegoat for that loss.

    If you fear Obama will not be able to survive a skirmish, why are you planning to send him into combat later in the year?


    [ Parent ]

    This does sound like a great idea (3.00 / 0) (#27)
    by kpatton1 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:19:03 PM EST
    I certainly could support this, as long as everybody agrees to be 100% behind the candidate who wins in the end at the convention.

    My biggest worry is that this won't be the case.  The only way I would oppose taking it to the convention is if people can't agree to support the nominee that comes out regardless of who it happens to be.

    [ Parent ]

    I dont think (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:23:32 PM EST
    the hard core Obamans will ever support Hillary.
    no matter how fairly and squarely she wins it, it is  now abundantly clear that the meme will be that she "stole it from him".
    the media will see to it.  I heard that no less than 10 times last night.
    this morning on MSNBC Wolfson explained to them that no one has won it so no one can steal it.
    they cut him off and went to a commercial.

    [ Parent ]
    At the same time (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by kpatton1 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:36:57 PM EST
    There are many reasonable people in the Obama camp.  Just like there are a lot of reasonable people in the Hillary camp.

    Lets all play nice at the convention, and then support whoever the nominee is in the end.  

    My biggest concern is that a lot of people here that like to assert that they will never vote for Obama.  Just like I have no respect for any hardcore "Obaman" would wouldn't support Hillary, I can't understand any self-proclaimed democrat who wouldn't vote for Obama in Novemeber should he be the nominee.

    [ Parent ]

    Because he is undemocratic. (none / 0) (#222)
    by alexei on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:48:00 PM EST
    Michigan and Florida are not being counted because of him.  I stated that anyone who does not uphold the voting franchise, will never get my vote.

    [ Parent ]
    B-b-but isn't one of the Obama (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by zfran on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:36:59 PM EST
    talking points is that if "she was the nominee they would support her" therefore we should support him?!

    [ Parent ]
    So if Hillary wins the nomination (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by zfran on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:38:19 PM EST
    some, not all, of the Obama people will just accept, move on and vote for her?

    [ Parent ]
    uh huh (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:42:42 PM EST
    and let me know when Elvis gets here.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't believe (none / 0) (#149)
    by kpatton1 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:57:31 PM EST
    That is any sort of logical justification to do the opposite.  If you say that, they can make the same argument and we run into one big circle of party division.  We can rise above what one fanatical supporter or another says.

    And I do know many Obama supporters who would certainly vote for Hillary if she were the nominee.  Unfortunately, both of these historic candidates came at the same time, and its hard to have it both ways.

    [ Parent ]

    and I *know* (none / 0) (#104)
    by BethanyAnne on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:43:45 PM EST
    I've heard tons of folk here say they won't vote for Obama no matter what happens.  Cream City? Kathy? MarkL?  Care to pipe up?

    [ Parent ]
    I won't. (5.00 / 3) (#108)
    by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:44:57 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    This just feeds the fire (1.00 / 1) (#157)
    by kpatton1 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:58:56 PM EST
    Of party division, and gives justification on the other side for people who say they would never vote for Hillary.

    It makes me :(

    [ Parent ]

    To quote Springsteen (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by Cream City on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:04:05 PM EST
    we didn't start the fire.

    If and when I hear some apologies -- a lot more than "let's play nice" -- I may reconsider.  Right now, I'm no longer a Dem, so it's not about what's best for the party.  It's what's best for the country, so I'm continuing to look at all of the candidates.

    And I'm listening to see who asks for my vote -- by showing they listened about my issues.  So far, Obama hasn't done so.  We'll see.

    [ Parent ]

    Thats fine (1.00 / 1) (#189)
    by kpatton1 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:17:31 PM EST
    If your reason for favoring Hillary was solely based on her personal characteristics.  And if you want to vote for another candidate because you don't favor liberal ideals, etc, thats your prerogative and I definitely can respect your choice.

    But if you supported her because of her ideals and positions on the issues- well, I just hope you realize, that their positions on most of the issues are 95% the same.  In which case you'd be doing the country a disservice by voting against what Hillary stands for.

    Just like how I don't have any respect for Obama supporters who claim they wouldn't vote for Hillary in a GE matchup.

    [ Parent ]

    Ha! (none / 0) (#207)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:37:41 PM EST

     Oh man I would be in a lot of trouble if I didn't compromise to vote for the Democratic nominee every time around as is.  

    [ Parent ]
    I left the party since it seems (5.00 / 1) (#214)
    by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:41:45 PM EST
    to be leaving me by leaps and bounds.

    [ Parent ]
    You forgot me!! (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Stellaaa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:46:02 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    And me! (none / 0) (#193)
    by americanincanada on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:23:50 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    No kidding. (none / 0) (#235)
    by Kathy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:44:10 PM EST
    I'll say it again: I won't vote for him.  And if you think this is just about Obama, you have not been paying attention.  I will not support a party that does not support me.  I am a true progressive.  I am not an Obama dem, I am just a plain dem--you know, the backbone of the party.

    And trying to guilt me into voting for him is not going to work.

    [ Parent ]

    Count me in (none / 0) (#209)
    by txpolitico67 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:38:44 PM EST
    I won't pony up for Barack.  Being an independent now I have no loyalty to the Democratic party.

    But then again, I am loyal only to my conscious.  If I vote McCain, my conscious will be clear.

    [ Parent ]

    FYI, The convention will happen (none / 0) (#226)
    by felizarte on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:51:29 PM EST
    without consent of anyone of us.  I have absolute confidence in Hillary's ability to do the right thing and win the nomination. I have said repeatedly in the past, It is going to be Hillary for me.  The idea of a Pres. McCain, in the event that Hillary is mistreated some more, does not scare me. I have already been called OBDURATE by one of your members, and I plead guilty to the charge with no regret. You may not like it, but that is my answer.

    [ Parent ]
    I've always thought Obama was a better candidate (5.00 / 7) (#8)
    by Exeter on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:03:08 PM EST
    But, I honestly think that in the last month she has become, much, much better than him. It's almost as if they've switched roles: she now is very likable and he is coming off more and more as a smug, patronizing elitist.

    absolutely (5.00 / 7) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:10:58 PM EST
    my feelings exactly.
    and his supporters seem to get worse by the day.
    I saw some comments that Kos and others had "toned it down".
    I havent seen it.

    [ Parent ]
    My mother and sister went to an event a couple (5.00 / 7) (#9)
    by Angel on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:03:25 PM EST
    of weeks ago.  One of Hillary's top field people was there, and he told the crowd that Hillary was definitely taking this to the convention floor in August.  I saw this same person about a month ago here in town and spoke with him.  I asked him if Hillary was going to win and he said YES.  I asked him if he was serious, and he said, YES.  I'M DEAD SERIOUS.  This man has known Bill and Hillary since their college days, are very close friends, so I believe what he says.  Hillary will not give up.  

    As a Floridian I am so proud that she speaks for (5.00 / 9) (#11)
    by FLVoter on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:07:18 PM EST
    me.  This is why I voted for Sen. Clinton.  I have confidence that she will do what is right! She will do everything she possibly can to have my vote count.

    the speech gave me goosebumps (5.00 / 8) (#20)
    by Monda on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:15:00 PM EST
    especially this:

    Because remember, it's been the mission of the Democratic Party, guided always by the understanding that as President Franklin Delano Roosevelt once said, "the ultimate rulers of our democracy are not the president, the senators, the members of Congress and government officials, but the voters of this country." In this Democratic Party, the voters rule. So let's make sure your voices are heard and your votes are counted.

    It's beyond me why people (dems included) hate this great woman.  

    Hillary you are my voice, and I do hope it will count.  

    I can't believe that MSNBC talked over the (none / 0) (#229)
    by honora on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:56:09 PM EST
    beginning and cut out the end.  Do you know of any complete tapes of the speech.  

    [ Parent ]
    fight, fight, fight! catch a nap, have (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by hellothere on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:18:05 PM EST
    lunch and then fight some more. sounds good to me!

    My daughter watched with me (5.00 / 14) (#35)
    by Cream City on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:24:16 PM EST
    last night, Hillary's victory speech.  Daughter is having a tough time right now with a boss straight out of "9 to 5," a Dabney Coleman type.  We were telling her to hang in there, put up with him, and keep looking for another workplace -- perhaps even one with health care benefits (crucial to her, and promised by the current boss, but he made many promises. . . .).  

    She got a call for a job interview today, but she has been so demoralized by the boss's behavior that she was worried whether she would do well today.  So she needed some mom time.  But she knows about mom's Tuesday nights with Hillary. :-)  And she's a terrific Clinton supporter, too -- so she said we'd watch last night's victory speech.  

    Daughter got fired up and talked about getting the message that a quitter never wins, and a winner never quits.   She did great in the job interview today, already got a callback for a followup interview tomorrow.  And she said that watching Clinton gave daughter the gumption to get up and give it her all today -- and to go back in to the current job tomorrow and just take it, as that's what she has to do for health care coverage . . . while she's doing what it takes to be a winner, too.

    That's what every day, every hour of Clinton's campaign battle is role-modeling for girls and young women today -- and smart men and boys, too.  

    It takes a village to raise these kids, after all. And I sure appreciated Hillary's help today. :-)

    That's amazing (none / 0) (#187)
    by Hope on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:15:43 PM EST
    I'm crying again.

    Gosh. Hillary has given us this.

    [ Parent ]

    Yay CC kid! (none / 0) (#195)
    by cmugirl on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:27:55 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yay CC kid! (none / 0) (#196)
    by cmugirl on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:28:21 PM EST
    Tell her we said "you go, girl!"

    [ Parent ]
    Make My Vote Count! (5.00 / 4) (#114)
    by fly on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:45:44 PM EST
    What a wonderful speech...makes me have tears in my eyes.
    I was an elected Delegate in 2004 for Florida and i have fought the state and county about the DRE voting machines and having Voter Verified Paper Ballots, and that is exactly what the bill was that the republicans amended to add the change of date for our primary.
    We won that bill in a Republican Controlled Legislature only to be punished by the likes of Howard Dean, and Donna Brazile and Now Obama.
    I know what went on, a friend and someone i mentored to work on the DRE voting machine problems , was in the capitol when the bill was introduced and being passed and she called me every step of the way when the bill was introduced.
    4 of the Citizens who got that bill to the the floor of the Florida legislature just recieved the highest award the Florida ACLU gives out this past Saturday, because the bill to Ban DRE voting machines and mandate Voter Verified Paper Ballots was their baby..

    It is inexcusable that anyone in my state's votes won't count.
    I am married to a double minority, i have seen my husband and son's votes stolen in this state, my husband and i put up most of the money in my county for an audit of the DRE machines after the 2006 election...(.the anchor of the I-4 corridor of Florida) the state auditor sat for 2 days here and said ..no audit was possible..

    It was because of the good citizens here in Florida that we became one of the first states in the nation to Ban DRE voting machines and mandate Voter Verified Paper Ballots..not for the 2012 election..***but for the 2008 election!

    It wasn't the DNC that did this, it wasn't the DNC that paid for the work and FOUGHT FOR the legislation ..it was the people here in Flotida , that worked their rear ends off with no help whatsoever from the Congress of this country, or the DNC, or anyone else...it was the people.

    And how have we been paid back..having our votes stolen once again...but this time by Obama , Dean and Brazile.

    All I can say is THIS: ..if you sit back and don't scream about this from coast to coast..

    Today it is my vote..

    Tommorrow it could be yours..will you accept my vote being stolen and that of my family, and only get mad when it becomes your vote , or will you do something now to help us in Florida get our votes counted????????

    A democracy is only a democracy when our votes are counted.

    EVERY VOTE

    Must I  stand outside with a purple finger  to prove to you I voted???????

    I voted, my vote has been counted and certified by my state, it is the DNC and the Democratic Party that will not recognize my vote.

    Will you let that stand , or stand to not allow it ??????

    Please call the DNC and demand my vote count and the votes of the largest block of vets in the nation and the headquarters of this war and the soldiers who are fighting it ..let their voices count! And their parents and wives and husbands voices count as well!

    HERE'S THE TOLL-FREE NUMBER TO THE DNC!
    1-877-336-7200

    From Fly..a 2004 elected Delegate from the State of Florida..and a poll watcher at large IN 2004 FOR EARLY VOTE FOR 2 WEEKS AND THE GENERAL.. protecting the people's votes.

    You deserve a medal (none / 0) (#190)
    by Cream City on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:18:34 PM EST
    but at least accept my thanks -- as I know that the Florida fight for reliable machines has made a difference in other states.

    And I also can see clearly, as you say, that if this drastic penalty (beyond the original DNC rules) goes forward, it's a blueprint for more mischief in many states with legislatures in GOP hands.  My state was one not long ago -- and it usually is, so it will be again.

    [ Parent ]

    I really doubt anyone is going to see it (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by Edgar08 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:49:17 PM EST
    I've said it before.  If I was an Obama supporter, this would concern me.

    The last thing I would ever want is my candidate, a historically unprecedented candidate, to win based on equally unprecedented and CONTESTED circumstances.

    It's a really bad idea.

    What I'm implying here should be clear.  You just can't say the words.  But the words will be said one day.

    You heard it here first.

    I'll put it like this.  Wouldn't the AA community have preferred a candidate with a more substantial resume to win an election where there were no mitigating circumstances that would forever taint the victory.

    Count MI and FL now!  Move forward.  None of this will ever come into play.

    Clinton is doing this so she can win, but the byproduct and make no mistake about this.  The byproduct of Clinton's efforts is, without a doubt, the byproduct of Clinton's efforts here is to only LEGITIMIZE someone who is too scared to embrace the electorate in it's totality!!!!

    Oh my Gawd. (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by madamab on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:57:07 PM EST
    I just read the transcript. I have tears in my eyes.

    Because here in America, unlike in many other nations, we are bound together, not by a single shared religion or cultural heritage, but by a shared set of ideas and ideals, a shared civic faith, that we are entitled to speak and worship freely, that we deserve equal justice under the law, that we have certain core rights that no government can abridge and these rights are rooted in and sustained by the principle that our founders set forth in the Declaration of Independence. That a just government derives its power from the consent of the governed, that each of us should have an equal voice in determining the destiny of our nation. A generation of patriots risked and sacrificed lives on the battlefield for that ideal.

    We are fighting for the soul of the Democratic Party.

    One candidate wants to honor every vote and has worked on legislation and taken action to make that happen.

    The other candidate wants the nomination at any cost. To call him tone-deaf is far too complimentary. He is simply not standing up for truth, justice, and the American Way. And that's neither Democratic, nor democratic.

    Is it any wonder that many who support Hillary, life-long, die-hard Democrats, do not see Obama as a viable choice?