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Myopic Political Analysis About Indiana

Booman finds great insight in this analysis:

It's been a rough few days for Sen. Evan Bayh. After years of holding a near death grip over so much of the state's Democratic Party establishment, the junior senator from Shirkieville has taken a series of very public hits in recent days.

This is based on the fact that the Mayor of Evansville, Indiana Rep. Baron Hill and DC lawyer/lobbyist Joe Andrew endorsed Barack Obama while Bayh supports Hillary Clinton. I think this is silly analysis. To me Bayh's week is better judged by the fact that Clinton has broken open the Indiana race.

It remains to be seen how Indiana will turn out but to me it looks like Clinton will score a double digit victory. Hard to see how that weakens Evan Bayh in Indiana and the Democratic Party.

By Big Tent Democrat

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    once... (5.00 / 14) (#1)
    by dws3665 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:41:05 PM EST
    you realize that everything is always bad for Clinton, and good for Obama, political analysis becomes rather straightforward.

    Making noise (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by stevenb on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:57:25 PM EST
    When the reality of Indiana turning out for Clinton starts biting Obama supporters in the a$$, all they can do is try and spin negatives for Clinton's supporters.  

    Typical.Politics.101

    Parent

    Obama needs NC by 20 and IN by 5 to win (5.00 / 20) (#13)
    by lambert on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:58:18 PM EST
    Anything else will be a staggering loss for him, and he should drop out of the race immediately for the sake of party unity and to save Donna Brazile's job.

    That's my spin and I'm sticking to it.

    Parent

    You kidding? It's his neighbor state (5.00 / 12) (#14)
    by andgarden on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:00:28 PM EST
    he has to win IN by 20 too!

    Parent
    Absolutely (5.00 / 15) (#26)
    by BDB on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:07:35 PM EST
    And if Hillary loses North Carolina by fewer than 25 points, she wins because she was able to "close the gap" with Obama.

    Parent
    Funny. Thanks. (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by oculus on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:09:29 PM EST
    Well, Clinton needs to win KY by 102% n/t (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by 1jpb on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:35:20 PM EST
    Heh. (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by BDB on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:10:06 PM EST
    I'm going with Fox (5.00 / 4) (#57)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:33:55 PM EST
    If she wins IN and comes within 7 in NC, she has  stronger argument to take to the superdeez. If she takes OR.... it's over.

    Of course, if this happens, media will change the goal posts.

    CNN says IN is a clear indicator for who will win in Nov.

    Parent

    Double digit win (5.00 / 6) (#125)
    by p lukasiak on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:19:18 PM EST
    Well, I don't think we should exaggerate here.  In early April, Obama had 12 point lead over Clinton, according to RCP's averages.  So anything less than a double digit win for Obama in Indiana is a loss.  Anything less than a 5 point win is a rout.

    And if he loses in Indiana, well, considering he had a double digit lead in April, the earth should open beneath Obama's feet, and he should be swallowed whole by the minions of Hades....

    Parent

    Evan Bayh Is Going To Be A Great Help (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:42:59 PM EST
    to Clinton and being on her side is not going to hurt him.  

    Why Would Bayh (5.00 / 12) (#3)
    by BDB on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:47:07 PM EST
    care at all who Baron Hill or Joe Andrew endorse?  Indeed these two endorsements are being pulled out to try to off-set Bayh because he is probably the best-known and well-liked democrat in the State.  

    I will never read political blogs the same way again.  I've seen so much nonsense passing for insightful analysis.  As I've asked before were all these folks always this stupid and I just didn't notice it before?

    For that matter, were they always so full of themselves and so sleazy.  From Salon's War Room on the WVWV "controversy",

    On Wednesday, at the main TPM site, Marshall asked, "Does that group doing voter-suppression calls in North Carolina have ties to the Clinton campaign?" (He later updated the post to walk back any implicit suggestion that there was "Clinton campaign complicity in the group's activities.") Three hours after he wrote that post, Marshall published a new one, this one titled "Keystone (cops) Voter Registration." In it, he acknowledged, "We've looked into the group's activities in other states and at least outside of North Carolina it's really difficult to figure out whether the group was up to no good or just mind-numbingly incompetent ... Setting aside the incidents in North Carolina, that we're still looking into, it seems like in the rest of the country the group was involved in legitimate voter-registration efforts for a targeted group even though they went about it in a heavy-handed way and sometimes confused voters by failing to note key registration deadlines."

    It was good of Marshall to acknowledge that. But even considering the pace of the blogosphere, the responsible, ethical thing to do would have been to wait before flatly stating that voter suppression was going on. It's not even as if he would have had to wait that long: Within just three hours after Marshall said WVWV was "doing voter-suppression calls," he was able to report that -- even if he still believed there might be some wrongdoing afoot in the North Carolina calls -- the pattern of WVWV's recent activities nationally was one of incompetence, not malevolence.

    On Thursday, I spoke to a seemingly irritated Marshall and asked him whether he stood by his stories. Marshall responded, "Yeah. I mean, what is there not to stand behind?"



    Yes, ahem, "these people" HAVE (5.00 / 7) (#9)
    by andgarden on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:53:05 PM EST
    always been this stupid.

    There are other who weren't, but they mostly no longer participate in the discourse.

    Parent

    Oh my. (5.00 / 15) (#66)
    by hitchhiker on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:40:45 PM EST
    I will never read political blogs the same way again.  I've seen so much nonsense passing for insightful analysis.  As I've asked before were all these folks always this stupid and I just didn't notice it before?

    Embarrassing, isn't it?  I used to think I could trust them because they had a built-in, enormous, trustworthy editorial board.  When the editorial board (the users) collectively decided that it did not care what the facts were, the whole system collapsed like a wet souffle.

    Reality-based? ha ha ha ha ha.

    Parent

    He's always irritated (none / 0) (#137)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:27:53 PM EST
    these days.  Does. Not. Like. Criticism.

    Parent
    He (none / 0) (#157)
    by kenoshaMarge on Sat May 03, 2008 at 05:34:04 AM EST
    should certainly be familiar with Keystone Cops behavior. All he has to do is look in the mirror. I no longer think someone kidnapped JMM, I think they lobotomized him and left him in place. Don't know if he ever had any integrity but that seems to be have surgically removed while the arrogance was left completely intact.

    Parent
    Me too (none / 0) (#158)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 03, 2008 at 07:14:04 AM EST
    I will never read political blogs the same way again.  I've seen so much nonsense passing for insightful analysis.  As I've asked before were all these folks always this stupid and I just didn't notice it before?

    I believe that the majority of left blogs have become the mirror image of the right wing blogs. Nothing more than a cheering section not based on reality.

    Parent

    Obama pundits looking more and more Kremlinesque (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by Exeter on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:48:27 PM EST
    It's becoming embarassing.

    As we transform into Kremlinologists (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by Salo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:51:50 PM EST
    lol

    Parent
    BTD, you still don't get it (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by GOPmurderedconscience on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:48:53 PM EST
    You don't apply logical thinking to anything related to Hillary Clinton, au contraire, that's when you are required to be ridiculously irrational.

    A death grip? (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:52:06 PM EST
    He has a death grip on IN's Dems? Wow...I had no idea that quiet guy was such an enforcer.

    Evan "mad dog" Bayh (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by Salo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:02:42 PM EST
    He's a stockier version of Edwards.

    Parent
    I've got enough of a margarita still in me... (none / 0) (#24)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:06:29 PM EST
    to find the whole idea of this guy nick named "Mad Dog" giggle worthy...very giggle worthy.

    Parent
    IU debate (5.00 / 5) (#47)
    by honora on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:26:01 PM EST
    I went to Indiana University at the same time as Bayh.  He was on the debate team and I once attended a Princeton/IU debate.  IU, of course, wanted to impress.  In the introductions, the guy from Princeton introduced the team and said that they were so happy to be at the University of Indiana.  The audience was silent, but seething.  Bayh then got up and welcomed the Univeristy of Princeton to Indiana and the crowd went wild.  The Princeton guys just looked at each other and did not have a clue about what had just happened.  Bayh had destroyed them with a smile and they had no idea what had hit them.

    Parent
    I totally get that :) (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:47:46 PM EST
    Last night I channel surfed and wound up on Reba just as she told her daughter that she'd received a letter from Texas Women's University.

    Heh...I growled. It's Texas Woman's University.

    Parent

    That's great -- and I'll remember it (none / 0) (#91)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:03:50 PM EST
    as I work at a campus whose name always is given wrong, usually as a diss by other campuses.  I'll just mispronounce the heck out of them, too.

    Btw, I would have enjoyed seeing the Princeton snobs handle that great joint-campus acronym in Indiana that Hoosiers seem to pronounce as "oooey pooey"!

    Parent

    I wish it were 5 pm in California (none / 0) (#85)
    by Radiowalla on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:55:24 PM EST
    so I could join you!

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#90)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:01:42 PM EST
    I've got student conferences again tomorrow. So I only got to have one.

    Parent
    Very Gigglesque (none / 0) (#145)
    by delandjim on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:47:09 PM EST
    I will never see the same again.

    Parent
    Is Obama giving up on IN? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by andgarden on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:53:59 PM EST
    I'd be interested to see the last minute spending numbers.

    I gather the goal posts have moved (5.00 / 7) (#11)
    by oculus on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:57:07 PM EST
    to Oregon.  But what about Guam?

    Parent
    Is TL (none / 0) (#67)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:41:17 PM EST
    live blogging Guam?  :)

    Parent
    Cafferty isn't. (5.00 / 6) (#16)
    by Salo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:00:56 PM EST
    He read off a list of E-mails that all skewered Clinton.

    No particularly obvious reason to do so given that Obama is currently tanking in the polling.  

    I can almost imagine that she'd be sworn in and these pundits would still be reading the content free astroturf letters about kitchen sinks and dirty campaigns.  (no specifics please of course)

    Look kiddies, Obama is on the wrong side of a major cultural faultline as illustrated by Rev Wright--that's got nothing to do with Clinton.  It would be like Victorian England electing  Daniel O'Connell Prime Minister or at least O'Connell's watered down protege). There's more there with Obama and it will get worse.  it's not her fault.  Gordon Brown is getting thumped in the UK for no more than having a Scottish accent and a scowl.

    Parent

    so i'd say Obama's situation (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Salo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:04:11 PM EST
    might be hopeless.

    Parent
    Funny (5.00 / 5) (#109)
    by facta non verba on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:25:19 PM EST
    I tried watching CNN this pm. That experiment lasted less than 30 seconds. Cafferty promptly blamed her for the war in Iraq.

    On another note, Clinton seems quite upbeat and exuding a confidence. Indiana seems a done deal and it looks like she is devoting more time and energy to North Carolina. Here's a story in LA Times. What a difference PA made.

    I have to wonder if SD aren't soon going to be jumping ship back to Clinton if she does take both IN and NC. Oregon seems to be Obama's firewall now.

    Parent

    Cafferty and Oregon (5.00 / 3) (#146)
    by delandjim on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:51:11 PM EST
    Cafferty = Olberman

    Obama sent out a mass mailing in Oregon that was a cut and paste of one from Pa. They missed changing Pa veterans to Oregon vets. And they talked about the Great Lakes. I'm thinking that should do real well for him.

    Parent

    Slightly OT (5.00 / 9) (#17)
    by cmugirl on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:01:01 PM EST
    But since all the kool-aid drinkers are talking about the wonderfulness of Joe Andrew, and some other head of the DNC (Kirk?) that support Obama, how's this for support?

    LINK

    Former DNC chairs: Hillary would beat McCain today -- Obama wouldn't
    Posted: 01:15 PM ET

    (CNN) - Seven former Democratic National Committee chairs who support Hillary Clinton's presidential bid, and the family of one who is deceased, released a letter Friday arguing that she is the candidate best-equipped to beat John McCain in November.

    The letter was signed by former party leaders Kenneth Curtis, Charles Manatt, Debra DeLee, Don Fowler, Steve Grossman, Pennsylvania Governor Edward Rendell, and Clinton adviser Terry McAuliffe. It was also signed by the family of the late Ron Brown, who served in the Clinton administration.

    They write that "if the election were held today, Hillary would beat Senator McCain, but Senator Obama would lose to the presumptive GOP nominee."

    "Hillary has run one of the most formidable campaigns in the history of our Party," the chairs wrote, listing Clinton's primary season victories. "Her base of support includes women, Hispanics, seniors, Catholics, middle and low income Americans, and rural, suburban and urban voters. That's a formidable coalition tailor-made for victory in a November general election.

    "...We encourage you to continue to fully consider Hillary Clinton and the fact that she is qualified and accomplished. Too much is at stake for us not to consider deeply the choice we must make for our Party and our country."

    The letter comes hours after Barack Obama's campaign announced the endorsement of Paul Kirk, the second former DNC chair to endorse his presidential bid in two days. Kirk had been described as an Obama supporter in some campaign reports, but had not publicly stated his endorsement of the Illinois senator.


    "The family of one who is decease." (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by oculus on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:03:37 PM EST
    Now that is a stretch.

    Parent
    How is that different than Caroline Kennedy? (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by honora on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:46:25 PM EST
    Try for once to be honest.

    Parent
    I don't see any difference. Do you? (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by oculus on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:57:52 PM EST
    Ghosts of Dems from the grave (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:57:57 PM EST
    will be coming after Dean, Brazile, et al., with what they're doing to the Dems.

    But first, I expect the ghosts of FDR and ER to haunt their grandson Jim Roosevelt, who chaired the roolz committee that changed the roolz to double the penalty in stripping delegates from FL and MI.

    The smart pols in the olden days knew how to punish others who went out of line without even them knowing it until too late, much less all of us and the country.

    Parent

    Don Fowler is the good guy (5.00 / 8) (#23)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:04:27 PM EST
    I saw in the video of the infamous DNC Rules Committee meeting that amended the rules to strip FL and MI of all their delegates, not half as specified.  The only one I saw who stood up to Brazile and Co. -- including the Obama super-delegate who sponsored the amendment, but Brazile spoke most forcefully for it -- was Fowler.  He spoke so sadly of what the Dem party was doing to itself and just about begged the others there to show some spine.

    Parent
    Oh wow (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by annabelly on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:55:21 PM EST
    Do you have a link? Would love to see that.

    Parent
    Warning: prepare your self medication (5.00 / 5) (#134)
    by ruffian on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:59:15 PM EST
    of choice before viewing:

    DNC Rules Committee, 8/25/07

    Fowler is about an hour in as I recall.  The first hour or so is the Florida delegation explaining how they were unable to keep the Republicans from changing the primary date.  The rest is the committee berating them, and changing the punishment from removing half the delegates, as the rules state, to removing all of them.  Fowler is the only voice of reason.

    Be sure to watch the very end for the true heartbreak of seeing the Florida Dem chairwoman stripped of her delegation and dismissed so the committee can have lunch.

    Parent

    Stalin lives! (5.00 / 4) (#135)
    by Salo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:05:44 PM EST
    lunch everyone?

    Parent
    Ha. (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by ruffian on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:32:34 PM EST
    It really was a show-court type hearing.  Followed by lunch.

    The banality of DNC evil.

    Parent

    Sigh (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by Steve M on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:06:54 PM EST
    Democrats aren't supposed to go on record with sentiments like these.  Criticisms of a Democrat's electability should be aired in private, not public.

    Of course, no one applied my standard back when people like Chris Dodd went around ranting about Hillary's unfavorables, either.

    Parent

    You don't need to look that far back. (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Joan in VA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:14:25 PM EST
    It's very common even this week.

    Parent
    Re this alleged declaration by a super-del (5.00 / 5) (#30)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:09:31 PM EST
    -- the AP noted that it and others already had been counting Kirk for Obama.  So it doesn't change the count . . . such as it is, just media guesses based on different factors, so the counts are all different.  But apparently this one already was seen as in the bag by all.  

    I wonder if that is true of other super-delegate declarations much vaunted by Obama (and the Obamamedia)?  I watch the counts on some sites, and some days they don't change when Obama announces super-delegates, some days they do, some days they change back, etc.

    Of course, even total pledged delegate counts now are crap, since several states still have more recaucusing and recounting to do into summer, plus we saw yesterday that some are still appointing at-large delegates (my state doesn't do so until June), etc.

    Parent

    The Obama Campaign Is Out of SDs (5.00 / 9) (#37)
    by BDB on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:15:32 PM EST
    I think Andrew was the last one they had in their pocket.  They would've much rather used him after an Obama win to show SDs defecting.  But they used him yesterday.

    Now it appears they're down to recycling them. Hey, at least it's good for the environment.

    Hillary, meanwhile picked up a Texas SD from the local party today.

    Parent

    They probably have more to come (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:24:16 PM EST
    If Obama wins North Carolina or Indiana, I expect to say many more coming out for him.

    Parent
    expect to see (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:27:23 PM EST
    It might even be the wave that they've always been talking about.

    Today was very CALM in the Obama campaign.  Either something major has gone down behind the scenes (like a deal) or he really did run out of SDs for now.

    Parent

    If He Wins Both (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by BDB on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:30:14 PM EST
    I agree.  If he just wins NC, then I think we're stuck in the muddle for awhile longer.  

    Parent
    Poll reported in today's NYT: (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by oculus on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:32:16 PM EST
    most respondents believe the Dem. nomination will not be decided until the convention.

    Parent
    as long as it takes is fine with me (5.00 / 5) (#59)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:37:10 PM EST
    Kool-aid detoxification is sometimes a grueling and slow process, but it is for the good of the country.

    Parent
    Don't (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by DJ on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:25:04 PM EST
    they keep saying they have a lot more who are just waiting to endorse?

    Parent
    That's interesting, BDB. How do you (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by derridog on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:40:22 PM EST
    know this?  I'd love to be reassured, as these elections make me really nervous.  

    Parent
    I Don't (5.00 / 5) (#108)
    by BDB on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:24:52 PM EST
    It's just Kremlinology.  You can see some of my reasoning here, be sure to read the comments, and here.  It gained added credence today when it turned out one of Obama's new SDs was an old SD.


    Parent
    They're down to pretending they have them (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by Ellie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:52:26 PM EST
    They don't (from this story).

    Looks like that floatation was part of yet another full court press to keep moving the goalposts away proportionate to every HRC win so the ominous Surrender Hillary skywriting doesn't look quite so stupid. (Not sure, but I think "surrender" was misspelled again.)

    Parent

    Oh, no, not McCaskill again (5.00 / 7) (#97)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:13:19 PM EST
    When was the last time -- where is MoBlue to help us on this? -- that McCaskill said anything worth hearing, anything even remotely close to reality?

    I have family who worked so hard for her.  They don't want to talk about her anymore, it seems.

    Parent

    Since when would (5.00 / 7) (#100)
    by pie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:19:19 PM EST
    a newbie like Claire MCCakill have the inside scoop on SD's?

    That didn't pass the smell test when she first gushed about them.  

    She's a tool.  And she's made her bed.  But even if Obama loses, she must figure it'll help her when she runs for reelection.

    Politics sure is fun.

    Parent

    Don't Be So Sure That McCaskill's Endorsement (5.00 / 6) (#112)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:33:53 PM EST
    will help her run for reelection. Outside the few Democratic strongholds, MO is a fairly conservative state and she cannot win without the backing of conservative Dem voters. They didn't vote for Obama in the primary and many won't vote for him in the GE. Last SUSA polled had 27% of Dem voters voting for McCain over Obama.

    If Obama is the nominee and loses the GE, Claire could well be a one term senator.

    Parent

    given my time there (5.00 / 4) (#113)
    by Salo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:41:31 PM EST
    She's DOA next time she runs.  She's got no insincts. She misread her own party in state.

    Parent
    To Be Fair (even if I don't want to be) (5.00 / 3) (#122)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:01:18 PM EST
    it wouldn't do her reelection bid any good to endorse Clinton either. She can't win without the support of the AA community either. Her best bet would have been to endorse Obama in a less controversial way and then stayed out of the picture as much as possible. Now she is tied so close to Obama that everything that effects Obama will effect her as well. As you say, bad instincts.

    Parent
    Her (none / 0) (#131)
    by sas on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:46:54 PM EST
    best bet would have been to remain silent.

    Parent
    I wonder (none / 0) (#148)
    by delandjim on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:21:03 PM EST
    I wonder if she thinks she has a prayer at Veep.

    Parent
    McCaskill (none / 0) (#101)
    by pie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:20:15 PM EST
    Darn keyboard.

    Parent
    MOBlue Front And Center (5.00 / 6) (#105)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:24:04 PM EST
    I heard a rumor that back 1957 Claire said something that her parents thought was brilliant. She was four at the time.

    Many of us who worked and contributed to her campaign would like a refund.  

    Parent

    MO Blue comes through (5.00 / 3) (#115)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:49:23 PM EST
    to crack me up again. :-)

    Parent
    This sums it up, I think: (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by pie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:24:06 PM EST
    All the low-hanging fruit has already been picked," said one Democratic Senate aide. "The rest are waiting to see who the winner is or are doing what's in their best interests. Most of the people that are remaining just don't want to pick the wrong side.

    Parent
    Like a comedian drenched in Flop Sweat says ... (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Ellie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:02:26 PM EST
    ... to the sound of a lone person clapping.

    "Could you run around the room and make that sound like applause?"

    Same logic behind repeating and recycling the same rumored superdeez for Obama rumor. (Obama's certain "win" based on this particular IF from the If-If-If sequence of insurmountable math always falling into Obama's score.)

    Honestly, we're all watching and recording the same ballgame here, but keeping separate scorecards. Obama has to close it out and I want baseball to be reinstated as the nat'l pastime again. Even hoops, hockey in a pinch.

    Parent

    I disagree (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:20:22 PM EST
    Recycling gasbag politicians isn't good for anything.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Steve M on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:04:02 PM EST
    It's like he has Evan Bayh mixed up with Frank Hague.  It's a big state with plenty of political actors, these aren't rebellious ward bosses.

    Tweety actually just asked (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by pie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:09:30 PM EST
    if Bill Clinton's accent was more pronounced when he campaigned in NC.

    This after George Bush.

    Tweety, you're a dolt.

    Does Tweety know (5.00 / 8) (#31)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:10:17 PM EST
    that <whisper> Bill Clinton is, uh, a Southerner?

    Parent
    One thing I've noticed is my Latin accent is (5.00 / 5) (#38)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:17:08 PM EST
    more pronounced when I speak english in Miami than when I speak english here where I live.  I guess it has to do with been influenced by the people around you.

    Parent
    yep (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by moll on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:41:48 PM EST
    I talked to a southerner on the phone today and I started speaking with a southern drawl & I am not even from the South :)

    Parent
    I know what you mean (none / 0) (#140)
    by ruffian on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:43:27 PM EST
    I go back to Chicago and sound like.....well, Hillary, kind of. I know the "cackle" well.  All my aunts have it, and so do I.  I think it will stand her well in Indiana.  

    Anyway, my midwestern accent that got dulled in California and Colorado comes roaring back in Chicago. I hurt my own ears.

    Parent

    Ain'a hey, dere (none / 0) (#144)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:25:36 PM EST
    You talkin' 'bout us, down by da Midwest, dere?

    The only thing that hurts my ears when I visit Chicago is that screechin' El overhead.  We think the Flatlanders dere talk just fine, now.

    Parent

    Uff Da (none / 0) (#149)
    by delandjim on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:30:21 PM EST
    I thought I might be the only Norski here. When I talk to my family on the phone my husband laughs in the background at how I talk.

    I noticed Tweety was sounding a lot more like Phlly during that primary.

    Parent

    Does Tweety know (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by pie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:24:45 PM EST
    where Arkansas is?

    Parent
    Welcome to 1992 (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by andgarden on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:14:22 PM EST
    Everyone knows that Bill can turn the bubba on or off. It's an ASSET.

    Parent
    Why do you still (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:49:57 PM EST
    give these guys ratings?  They aren't going to rethink their antics and clean up their reporting until it hits the network in the pocketbook.

    Change the channel...

    Parent

    Actually with me it's a purifying ritual. (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:59:09 PM EST
    It's like when I had to drive all over Northern Florida in my job.  I would force myself to listen to Limbaugh for 5 minutes.  After that, I would be more convinced that it was the right and intelligent thing to be a LIBERAL.

    Parent
    Uh oh (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by cawaltz on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:27:22 PM EST
    Bill forgot to wear his Aqua Velva and smoke a cigar before spending time with Tweety. No man crush for Bill.

    Parent
    You have to listen to Bill's (none / 0) (#33)
    by Salo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:14:00 PM EST
    Oxford accent. He sounds like a proper yokel.  All tha time in Summertown and hanging out at the Lamb and Flag!

    Parent
    And the voters keep ignoring these fools. (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:14:21 PM EST
    At the end of the day voters don't give a rat's patoot what these pundits say about anything.

    Because some random interim chair of the DNC that used to be from Indiana endorsed Obama and made an a$$ of himself in the process Evan Bayh is having a bad week?  LOL.  The Indy Star doesn't think so!

    Wish that was true, but... (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:54:10 PM EST
    everytime you see a comment that includes koolaide, kitchen sink, and all the other pundit coined phrases, accusations, demands, etc. you can see the enormous influence they have on the masses.

    90% of the people who were screaming for Clinton to release her tax returns, earmarks, Bill's library donors list didn't have a clue that Obama hadn't released his, either. Nor did they know what those were going to mean once they were released.  Notice how the pundits haven't been calling for the library list for awhile, and that topic just faded into neverland on the boards.


    Parent

    Rendell is finished in PA (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by Manuel on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:20:50 PM EST
    Done.  I tell you.

    Ha. Penn just gave HRC 2 more delegates (5.00 / 8) (#60)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:37:39 PM EST
    today with the final count in the state -- so she beat Obama by 12 pledged delegates, 85-73.

    We can expect to see announcements of 2 more Obama super-delegates immediately?  More like Kirk today, who already was considered committed to Obama, so it didn't affect the delegate counts.  Such nonsense.

    Parent

    Link? (none / 0) (#62)
    by andgarden on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:38:09 PM EST
    Lots of stories on it (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:46:40 PM EST
    on Googlenews, not hard to find; here's one.
    Not be the one I read before, if not with same details.

    Parent
    Thanks, interesting (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by andgarden on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:52:27 PM EST
    My source hasn't updated in weeks.

    Seems she broke 70% in the 11th. Scranton came through.

    Parent

    That's right -- you're a Pennsylvanian (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:00:28 PM EST
    as I recall?  It's not in the press there?  Hmm, maybe soon.  Back section, bottom-of-the-page filler? :-)

    Parent
    I spend most of my time in DC (none / 0) (#93)
    by andgarden on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:07:15 PM EST
    But the at-home press wouldn't be any help anyway.

    Parent
    You joke, but the whole argument (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by andgarden on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:37:50 PM EST
    is stupid. Unless you're endorsing someone crazy like Lyndon LaRouche, or maybe someone really unpopular, nobody cares who you endorse. (In our local races in Philly the ohter week, we had one candidate who endorsed LaRouche and another who endorsed Rick Santorum. Both lost their primaries!)

    Neither Rendell nor Casey is going to be in any trouble.

    Parent

    What is Lyndon LaRouche doing these days? (none / 0) (#69)
    by derridog on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:42:33 PM EST
    Still getting people to join his cult (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by andgarden on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:43:29 PM EST
    I imagine.

    Parent
    They were passing out (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by misspeach2008 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:50:16 PM EST
    "doomsday" literature at a townhall meeting held by Congresswoman Nikki Tsongsas a few weeks ago. They are against computers and the internet among other things.

    Parent
    Well, one look at some "liberal" blogs (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:00:21 PM EST
    on the 'Net some day, and I'm about ready to pass out, too.  

    Parent
    One thing I don't get about LaRouche.. (none / 0) (#161)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat May 03, 2008 at 11:56:58 AM EST
    When he ran for President in 92, he did it from a prison cell. I may be a bit off, but isn't a felony conviction a barrier to running for President? At that time, felons lost their right to vote, so if you aren't eligible to vote how can you be eligible to run for President?? I never understood that. And my grandmother's farm was near his paramilitary camp in NoVa, and sometimes we could hear firing and mortars going off. There were some scary people there..weird gun-toting extremists.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:23:07 PM EST
    The poor guy (none / 0) (#52)
    by pie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:29:34 PM EST
    doesn't know his own state.

    Hee.

    Parent

    That would be very interesting (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Salo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:25:40 PM EST
    Is that done?  She could joking drop a hint or two.  

    I would love Edwards as Att Gen. n/t (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by DJ on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:26:23 PM EST


    Edwards..or on the court! n/t (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by DJ on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:27:16 PM EST


    SAP/trans O why won't that woman give BO her juice (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Ellie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:38:30 PM EST
    How much longer does she plan to obstruct Destiny (by not turning over her juicy voters and support)?

    Why, why, why won't she let the next generation of (no-nothing bonehead consultants) pseudo-leadership by tantrum, with a more appropriate stooge-entourage, take over the Republican Palace?

    If Sen Clinton (is allowed to) win ... [Do the Apocalypso: sky falling, world's end, tectonic cracks in Earth's mantle allowing unspeakable demons to emerge and dance around the place like they owned it and that's not even the half of it ... &c]

    Don't bang on your TV and monitor screens as they're not broken. This junk really is coming out of it.

    Why don't the Obamans push Edwards (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Cream City on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:08:37 PM EST
    to end rather than just suspend his campaign and release his delegates, too?  That stopped an Obaman who was going on recently, in my company, about the Horrible Hillary who was not giving way to the Great One For Whom We Have Been Waiting and No One Told Us We Were Waiting, Since Some of Us Got Along Fine Without Him All That Time.

    That would turn it around for Obama, I said, since Hillary is ahead in winning pledged delegates since Wisconsin.  The Obaman didn't know that; it wasn't in the Obamamemo.  Really, they have to get out more.

    Parent

    It Would Be Beautiful If Those 100 Delegates (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:17:06 PM EST
    ended up in Hillary's column.  Those 100 plus the delegates from FL and MI would put her ahead of obama.

    Parent
    My daughter lives in South Dakota and mentioned (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by athyrio on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:40:36 PM EST
    that 15 of the top Democratic party officials there were backing Obama due to Tom Dashle's involvement...They are being advertised to death there by Obama...Here in Montana tons and tons of Obama ads too...P.S. We finally got our power back and dug out...we got 13 inches of snow but whose counting :-)

    Ah yes, the man behind the man, (5.00 / 5) (#71)
    by andgarden on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:44:36 PM EST
    Tom Daschle. How is he on the war again? (Bwhahahahaah!)

    Parent
    So, Athyrio, How do think (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by derridog on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:48:01 PM EST
    Montana's gonna vote?  Does Hillary have a chance?

    Parent
    This is a very male chauvinist state sadly (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by athyrio on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:57:40 PM EST
    and so I don't really have a clue...Has there been a poll lately??  If I had to bet I would say Obama would take it, but after all this negative stuff, who knows....I am trying to convince my republican neighbors that they best vote for Hillary and they just laugh at me....:-) How does it look in NC derridog??

    Parent
    Well, it's hard to say. Most of my good friends (5.00 / 6) (#103)
    by derridog on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:22:12 PM EST
    who are party activists are for Obama and Obama has an office here in this little town and Hillary doesn't. The students who are politically active and that is certainly not all of them (many of my students seem very apolitical -they are only concerned about their finals and getting home for the summer) seem pro-Obama. The Obama office has students out canvassing every day. So that's bad for Hillary.

    On the other hand, in my department (in which every single person is a Democrat and very liberal) the number of people whose views I know for sure is about 12 and of those twelve, only four are for Obama.  The rest are fervently for Hillary. I was surprised by this. I also got a phone call the other day from a woman active in the Dem Party who heard me speak for Hiillary at the convention and she has many friends who are local and natives of NC who are for Hillary. And Bill Clinton came here the other day and spoke at the gym and the place was packed and hundreds of people couldn't get in.  On the other hand, our native Appalachian Southern Baptist neighbors, who I'm sure are Repubicans, told my husband that they couldn't vote for Hillary because the lesbians would take over. ( I didn't know that lesbians were into world domination! I need to address this with my lesbian friends.)

    So, who knows?  Gosh, I have my fingers crossed. We are meeting tomorrow to put out some more signs and give people buttons.   Unfortunately, we've been doing early voting for over a week and I read in the paper or online  that Obama is doing much better in the state than Hillary in that but I don't know how many have voted .

    I'm just hoping that she comes close at least.  I can't bear the thought of having to choose between Obama and McCain.   It's too depressing.

    Parent

    Do you have an open election? (none / 0) (#114)
    by themomcat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:45:55 PM EST
    Can you vote in the primary a for any candidate lie in MI?

    Parent
    Wow Long-time SD Senator Daschle, who (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:14:57 PM EST
    couldn't even hold on to his own seat.  I don't know whether to put that much stock in that or not....

    Parent
    She looks like she will win (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by cawaltz on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:52:18 PM EST
    Thedouble digits part seems like a stretch though. She is averaging 6 points and the 5-7 spread seems pretty stable.

    Smoke and Mirrors (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by cygnus on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:00:18 PM EST
    Obama is simply not ready to win a presidential election. But that doesn't mean the superdelegates won't support him.  They probably will.  They know that McCain is only going to serve one term.  They're more afraid of splintering the Democratic Party than of living with a Republican president. (Pelosi and Reid seem comfortable in subservient roles.  Why rock the boat?)

    Uh, the horse is out of the barn. (5.00 / 5) (#104)
    by cawaltz on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:22:54 PM EST
    The party is already split from where I am sitting. If they call it for Obama, then many Clinton supporters will sit it out and if they go Clinton then Obama supporters will pout. The Democratic paty is the only party I know that could screw up what should have been a slam dunk election cycle(following the most unpopular president since polling on popularity). Their ineptitude is one of the reasons I almost wonder if it would be easier to start from scratch.

    Parent
    OT...but (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by lilburro on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:55:35 PM EST
    the Jefferson-Jackson dinner speeches are on CSpan right now.  Hillary is on and doing a Super Dem spiel.  It's great.  This is the party of!  This is the party of!  We invite Republicans and Independents to join us!!  Etc.  It's good.  Now attacking oil companies.  Very classic.  

    Anyway, I doubt Indiana's Democratic Party is getting all shaken up because of Obama.  State parties seem to start and stop mostly at the state level - they are incubators.  Wasn't Booman the blogger that said he didn't know much about Pennsylvania?  Gotta get those eyes checked.  Credit to lambert for helping us stay on top of the unchecked unsystematic idiotic speculation.  Maybe Indiana is like...Alaska, if it were in the South??

    Didn't Easley endorse (none / 0) (#126)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:24:41 PM EST
    Clinton?  He just said the winner of NC will be the next President of the US.

    Parent
    they usually say that at JJ dinners (none / 0) (#129)
    by Josey on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:36:01 PM EST
    he said if she wins the hills (none / 0) (#153)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:02:00 AM EST
    then she'll win the state and then the presidency (saw that on msnbc's first read) ....but I cant' tell if there's enough people in the hills to make up for the urban cities that will go to Obama.

    Parent
    Hope the governor knows his atate (5.00 / 0) (#155)
    by RalphB on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:36:29 AM EST
    really well.  I haven't seen population stats on NC though.  I'll just hope for the best!


    Parent
    Supposedly, Bayh wrote a memo (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by ding7777 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:44:59 PM EST
    to Bill Clinton re Magnequench and the memo will be in Saturday's paper.

    Obama supporters are besides themselves with glee.

    I haven't followed it - (none / 0) (#132)
    by Josey on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:53:12 PM EST
    but I forgot to add in my post that earlier this week Obama supporters claimed Hillary blamed Bush for closing the plant and Obama supporters found evidence that Clinton closed it.

    Parent
    How can a president close a plant? (none / 0) (#133)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:55:14 PM EST
    Don't experiment on me!!! (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by sailboat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:19:30 PM EST
    This article speaks to my point that activists are doing a great disservice to America.

    I am astonished that the far-left bloggers are affecting our election by influencing the media, print-journalist and elected offcials just to experiment with the process.  They cannot believe that Obama is the best choice. Obama is weak, unvetted, inexperienced and has many questionable characters in his past that speak to his lack of  judgement.  The far-left bloggers surely must be interested in the experiment only.

    Look how the bloggers performed after the last debate on ABC.  Obama did poorly.  They swarmed the internet sites and media with complaints about the format; nothing about Obama's performance.  Soon the media were picking up the cue.  The endless unfair reporting and harsh character assignations against Hillary, Bill and even Chelsea are absurd.

    Middle America has saved this election from being taken over by these guys but this is still a very close race.  We need guidance about how to be Hillary activists.  

    Anyone who has suggestions about how to correct biased reporting along with contact info regarding who we need to write to should start adding that info to your comments.

    Middle America and Hillary need our help.  


    Guardian UK site and Helium voters (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by ExpatElaine on Sat May 03, 2008 at 05:33:08 AM EST
    I know that this is not the right place for this comment, but I couldn't find one more obvious.

    You link to the Guardian UK which is certainly trying to expand its US online presence.

    Its CIF (blog)coverage of the Democratic campaign (with Tomasky as chief writer) has been totally in the tank for Obama. UK papers are always fiercely partisan:  there is not a  tradition of non-partisanship.  However, this forum has become a real cesspool, with fabricated, libelous, obscenely misogynistic comments about Clinton left to stand....and the Guardian claims to be a quality newspaper.

    There seem to be two dogged Clinton supporters who carry on responding, but they are very lonely voices.

    Check it out--consider whether you want to link there any more or whether people think there is any point in posting there,  I think its blog falls well below the standard of anything else you link to.

    I put the Guardian in my category of Helium Obama supporters: High education, low information leading to the um. I adopted this because I found  'kool-aid' apt but distasteful. I also get tired of the assumption that higher education necessarily entails being a high information voter; this has not been my experience with too many Obama supporters.

    Bayh's Death Grip? (none / 0) (#6)
    by Salo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:50:23 PM EST
    Darth Evan?  

    He'd be very surprised to hear about this dark power.

    could make him the VP (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:00:46 PM EST


    Isn't this the fellow w/ a severe (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:04:26 PM EST
    case of foot in mouth disease?

    Parent
    nooo (none / 0) (#92)
    by jedimom on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:04:18 PM EST
    maybe youre thinking of Joe Biden? Sen DE

    Parent
    I was. (none / 0) (#151)
    by oculus on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:48:06 PM EST
    I'll make Evan a mojito if he needs one! (none / 0) (#27)
    by Joan in VA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:07:55 PM EST


    Never read Booman before (none / 0) (#32)
    by miguelito on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:10:34 PM EST
    Did he ever make sense?

    long time ago in a galaxy far away (5.00 / 5) (#45)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:25:37 PM EST
    yes he did make some sense before, relative to what he is today.

    Parent
    Not African American voters (none / 0) (#51)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:29:22 PM EST
    that would quelch any hope that at the very least Obama would be her VP choice.  I would say that Hillary should not be thinking of her VP choice until she can actually get this nomination.

    Blech. (none / 0) (#54)
    by pie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:31:23 PM EST
    What a horrible idea.

    i think they desperately (none / 0) (#56)
    by isaac on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:33:19 PM EST
    need these sd's to come out for him now, and they know it.  this is the best they could do, weren't they supposed to have 50, 20?  pathetic

    Might wait till (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:47:55 PM EST
    Oregon and a win?   Every talking head says he has a list, heck, Major Garrett on Fox says he has seen his list (knew about Andrew).  It's just a matter of media attention, come out on a win, or trickle out as inevitable.  Clinton gets to counter with one of hers to minimize the inevitability impression... rinse, repeat.

    I just want to hear what the voters have to say.

    Parent

    Yes. (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by pie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:11:57 PM EST
    I just want to hear what the voters have to say.

    Me, too.

    Parent

    oh thatd be cool (none / 0) (#72)
    by moll on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:44:52 PM EST
    I would really like to see Evan Bayh as VP but I think Hillary should choose a black person because I think that would help get the black vote back. But then she couldn't announce her intended VP before she had the nomination....though Bayh might help win over Republicans.

    Clark would be a better VP. (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:17:42 PM EST
    He has the military creds that will offset Hillary's being a woman with a lot of the Republican or "not sure I want to vote for a woman CIC" voters. Obama will probably not accept a place on her ticket, not second place anyway. Imagine Michelle deferring to Hillary. And imagine having a VP whose supporters vilify you at every opportunity. And who is running for your job the whole time he is in office on your ticket. No, Obama will not make a good VP for Hillary.

    Parent
    Clark is good (none / 0) (#142)
    by dissenter on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:15:09 PM EST
    If not Clark, I would go after Webb or Warner from VA. Web beefs up the mil creds, makes the anti-war folks happier, white men like him, his kid was in Iraq and could force McCain to spend money in VA. Mark Warner could do much the same - and he is a very successful businessman.

    Parent
    No, No, No. Don't say things like this (4.00 / 0) (#143)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:24:27 PM EST
    It comes off extremely badly.  Please no talk of token women or black candidates. It's unseemly.

    Parent
    Like who? (none / 0) (#79)
    by Radiowalla on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:50:56 PM EST
    How about Obama?  

    Or were you thinking of someone else?  

    Parent

    Powell (1.00 / 0) (#150)
    by delandjim on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:36:27 PM EST
    OK this is odd but Colin Powell is still well thought in spite of the United Nations thing. That would cook McCain & Obama.

    Parent
    I think Powell would be found (none / 0) (#154)
    by Radiowalla on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:24:52 AM EST
    totally unacceptable by many Democrats because of his role at the UN, but I may be overreacting.

    He certainly has the national recognition, but I don't think he would run with Clinton under any circumstances.

    Parent

    Yes but (none / 0) (#160)
    by delandjim on Sat May 03, 2008 at 08:35:21 AM EST
    Yes but those dems wouldn't vote for McCain either and it would pull many Republicans onto the dem side.

    Parent
    That is considered verboten (none / 0) (#80)
    by Edgar08 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:51:45 PM EST
    Obviously.


    I think the Establishment Dems (none / 0) (#107)
    by blogtopus on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:24:33 PM EST
    are building their own party: The DCrats

    Does the D stand for dumb? (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by cawaltz on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:31:57 PM EST
    I'd have already concussed myself already if I was still banging my head against the desk and wondering why the heck the minority party(even AS a minority) manages to get more crap(and I do mean crap) done then the majority party.

    Parent
    R's in the minority (5.00 / 4) (#119)
    by RalphB on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:57:51 PM EST
    do seem to still get stuff onto the floor and some of it done.  The last 2 years have been an eye opener as to just how spineless the congressional democrats really are.

    I'm independent but had thought I might join again, but that's over and done.  There's no way I want to be associated with these invertebrates.

    IMHO Hillary Clinton scares the hell out of them.  They would have to actually do things which might not be popular with the corporate masters and that seems to be outside their job descriptions.  :-)


    Parent

    Please don't insult invertebrates (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Dr Molly on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:29:54 PM EST
    There is far more species diversity for invertebrates compared to vertebrates, and so many fascinating forms:)

    Parent
    Sorry, Invertebrates (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by RalphB on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:44:27 PM EST
    do seem much nicer and smarter than DNC officials.
     :-)

    Parent
    Magnaquench (none / 0) (#128)
    by Josey on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:35:11 PM EST
    DK diary about an Indiana plant closing -

    http://tinyurl.com/4mavb2


    Booman lives completely in his own (none / 0) (#159)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 03, 2008 at 07:41:09 AM EST
    world.