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Diary Rescue and Open Thread

How about a late night open thread?

We've also got some new diaries up:

And only in Texas, an HIV homeless man gets 35 years for spitting on a police officer. Now 42, he must serve half before being eligible for parole.

Have something else you want to talk about? Go right ahead.

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    What do people think about Larry (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by MarkL on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:09:24 PM EST
    Johnson's claim about the videos of Michele?
    link

    Lame, lame, lame (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by bjorn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:13:44 PM EST
    I haven't like everything about Mrs. Obama, but this is very lame.  I for one will get really pissed off if the Republicans try to beat Obama by going after his wife.  

    Parent
    Well, complaining will do no good (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by MarkL on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:15:50 PM EST
    if the story is in fact true. It would be all over for Obama. Do the tapes exist? I don't think Larry Johnson would lie about what sources tell him, but they might lie to him.

    Parent
    I am not saying it won't hurt him (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by bjorn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:17:29 PM EST
    I just don't like it.  I can't articulate it very well, because frankly I don't find her very likeable, but I just think it should be about Obama and not his wife.

    Parent
    The Dems lost the high ground (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:27:10 PM EST
    on the spouse issue.  Elizabeth Edwards, McCain's wife, Bill Clinton.... Dems have gone after spouses the time around, they are now open season.

    Parent
    eh... (none / 0) (#44)
    by Alec82 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:35:54 PM EST
    ...President Clinton is in a different category.  He himself has acknowledged as much.  Cindy McCain would not be open to the same kind of criticism if she had not attacked Michelle Obama with her "I've always been proud of my country" remark.  

     I don't really remember anyone going after Elizabeth Edwards...perhaps if you could provide a link? The media questions she received about her cancer treatments and his decision to run were awful, but I don't remember Democrats going after her.

     The Clintons, by their very nature, are a special case.  Attacks on Chelsea, of course, or any of the candidate's children, are beyond the pale.    

    Parent

    Nope, all the same category (none / 0) (#54)
    by Cream City on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:42:57 PM EST
    for these purposes.  They're all "public figures."  There are definitions of that for legal cases -- but look at it this way: They all get Secret Service protection.  That's for public figures.

    Parent
    Please if Cindy McCain is fair game (none / 0) (#67)
    by RalphB on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:47:51 PM EST
    for saying she's always been proud of her country, then obviously Michelle Obama is fair game.  Just because more people will be angered by her saying she's proud of her country for the very first time doesn't make it unfair.


    Parent
    eh... part two (none / 0) (#79)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:52:51 PM EST
    Cindy McCain would not be open to the same kind of criticism if she had not attacked Michelle Obama with her "I've always been proud of my country" remark.  

    Michelle wouldn't be open for attack if she hadn't made remarks that put herself in the middle of politics... scratch Bill's eyes out, just joking... can't take care of her own house.... would have to think about campaigning for Clinton, tone.... America is just downright mean....

    No, the Clinton's aren't a special case but you can try and get the Repubs and the media to go along with you.

    Parent

    Then you are saying... (none / 0) (#97)
    by Alec82 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:04:18 AM EST
    ...that the attacks on Hillary Clinton in the 1990s were legitimate?

     I will agree to a limited extent: a candidate's spouse is fair game to the extent that how they use them during their campaign reveals how they view their spouse (think about Laura Bush's muted role) or how they would govern.  But I'm not electing President Clinton (as I am reminded by the Clinton campaign when it matters) or Michelle Obama, or Cindy McCain.  I'm electing the next president of the United States.  

     I don't know why you think Bill is no different from other spouses.  When he speaks and campaigns on her behalf, he is doing so not only as a spouse, but as a former president of the United States.    

    Parent

    You started this by (none / 0) (#149)
    by RalphB on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:40:46 AM EST
    saying that Cindy McCain was fair game.  WTF is your point?


    Parent
    Ms. McCain... (none / 0) (#165)
    by Alec82 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:03:59 AM EST
    ...attacked Ms. Obama pretty openly, and in a pretty petty way.  

     On the other hand, I will agree that the comment made by Michelle re: Bill was pretty weird, and her comment about having to evaluate Clinton was distasteful from a partisan's perspective.  

     Overall, I just think that a candidate's spouse should be left out of the attack machine.  That includes Ms. McCain.  At the same time, when your spouse is a former two-term president, and you are running in part on experience from that presidency, the rules of the game are different.  There are no set rules, of course, but it should be clear that the scope of scrutiny is not the same.

     And btw, Ralph, I resent your rather insulting attitude.  I'm not the enemy here.  And I am tired of being painted as such by personality partisans. I've worked hard on every campaign, and I will do so no matter who wins this nomination.  Anything I post that does not toe the Clinton partisan line is attacked, and usually pretty unfairly.  Please don't be snide.

    Parent

    michelle put herself out there with (none / 0) (#214)
    by hellothere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:56:50 AM EST
    HER COMMENTS. so kindly get off it!

    Parent
    Matt Stoller carried dirty water for the media (none / 0) (#145)
    by Josey on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:34:57 AM EST
    by posting a DK diary accusing John and Elizabeth Edwards of racism!  Race-baiting Obamamites continued the dirty work along with spreading rumors Elizabeth was dying.

    http://tinyurl.com/4gfpft

    Edward's Would Be Great If He Weren't Racist??
    by david mizner on Tue, 08/14/2007 - 13:13
    Matt Stoller has never been the most cautious or thorough of bloggers, but his recent post, "What Bugs Me About John Edwards," is shoddy even for him. He accuses both John and Elizabeth Edwards of racism.

    Parent

    That stupid brouhaha? (none / 0) (#203)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:14:04 AM EST
    That was the lamest excuse for a fight ever!

    It didn't attack Michelle's character, it may have questioned her patriotism.  But hey, I question my patriotism every day.

    And that was somehow hitting below the belt?  It was just politics and the smartest thing to have done was to let it go.  Good thing Michelle doesn't rise to the bait as readily as Obama does or the Right would have a ball seeing who they could get a bigger rise out of.

    Both Michelle and Obama have a tendency to get too easily riled.  If they can't control it, the right will exploit that for all it is worth.

    Parent

    michelle isn't off limits due to the (none / 0) (#215)
    by hellothere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:58:10 AM EST
    fact that she has put herself out there with her comments.

    Parent
    The funny thing is that the media (none / 0) (#220)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:08:06 AM EST
    barely made a mention of it.

    Clinton knows how to pick her fights.  If she and Bill had become incandescent every time someone came up with a new "racist" interpretation of a comment, they both would have been portrayed as not only "racist" but dangerously unstable.

    Obama/Bush's comment?  Shouldn't have been an issue unless Obama wants to be the Outrage Candidate.  It's just so, so easy to see this happening with Obama as the nominee.

    Parent

    I am not so sure (none / 0) (#48)
    by Serene1 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:38:09 PM EST
    That Michelle is off limits completely. And if such a tape does exist then it disproves Obama's contention that he or his family never heard those"controversial" sermons. It will also give legs to the theory that while Obama was o.k about Wright bashing whites, jews, clintons and others the only time he denounced and rejected Wright outright was when Wright bashed him.

    Parent
    We shouldn't be told about a racist? (none / 0) (#188)
    by SueBonnetSue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:30:42 AM EST
    One who wants to be First Lady and represent our country?  

    Can anyone believe that Obama doesn't share her views?  Who marries a racist, unless feel the same way?  This is just creepy.  

    Parent

    It sounds too awful to be true -- but (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Cream City on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:30:38 PM EST
    then, this is the woman who said "ain't no black people in Iowa" and -- twice in one day, both on tape -- said she never before had been proud of her country.  And that sure sounded like it was right from Wright.

    That there is something more to come out from the Republicans, I don't question at all.  It's just a question of when -- and as they now see Clinton as tougher to beat, I would bet their oppo research won't come out until after the convention.

    And maybe not even until October -- the "October surprises" we have seen before, so there will not be time for speeches about race and grandma and more.

    Parent

    Nancy Reagan (none / 0) (#179)
    by SueBonnetSue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:14:05 AM EST
    We didn't go after her for all her nutty horoscope crap.  

    Ok, maybe we did.  But just a little.  

    Parent

    President married to a racist, (none / 0) (#186)
    by SueBonnetSue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:27:45 AM EST
    Is okay with you?  

    Who would marry a racist, other than another racist?  

    I have a HUGE issue with a racist in the White House, whether it's the President or his spouse.  

    Parent

    Let's See Them.... (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:21:10 PM EST
    I agree... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Jackson Hunter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:27:35 PM EST
    I hope they don't exist, but if they do, then we need them exposed now before the nomination is sealed.  I'm not asserting that it is true, but Johnson claims to have three sources, and he talks about how O'Vilely and his ilk are dropping hints about a bombshell.

    Of course, the Regressives are usually full of it, but their track record in winning elections (if not actual governance, where they are teh suck) worries me, as it should anyone who supports liberal values.

    Jackson

    Parent

    If The Tapes Exist, It Is No Wonder The Repugs (none / 0) (#45)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:37:09 PM EST
    want obama as the nominee.  They will skewer him.

    Parent
    Thanks everyone (none / 0) (#22)
    by PainKillerJayne on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:27:06 PM EST
    Obama's reporting position: I never (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by oculus on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:27:39 PM EST
    listened to Michelle, but, if I had, I would have called her out for talking like that.

    Parent
    Or...I am denouncing what my wife has said; (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:30:53 PM EST
    she was under the spell of Rev. Wright, whom I have also denounced.  I'm barack obama and I approve this message.

    Parent
    stop making me laugh, I am trying to (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by bjorn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:34:44 PM EST
    be objective and kind!

    Parent
    bjorn...forget being objective and kind....it is (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:38:26 PM EST
    overrated... :)

    Parent
    Please don't let him call her (none / 0) (#40)
    by Cream City on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:33:27 PM EST
    a typical black person!  I don't think she is anymore than he is.  None of my AA colleagues ever would talk the way that she has done in front of cameras.  

    Parent
    Actually, she is probably more (none / 0) (#93)
    by oculus on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:01:57 AM EST
    typical than he is.  She was raised on the South Side of Chicago; mom stayed home and raised the kids; Dad worked for the local government; Michelle and her brother both went to public schools through high school.  

    Parent
    yep she has walked the talk (none / 0) (#159)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:55:55 AM EST
    Sounds like nearly every white person in America (none / 0) (#181)
    by SueBonnetSue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:17:31 AM EST
    Other than southside Chicago, what makes her a typical black person?  Having attended Princeton and Yale?  Married to a Senator?  

    Parent
    Obama: I never had interc0urse with that woman! (none / 0) (#172)
    by Ellie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:27:27 AM EST
    ... and if I did I barely listened!

    Parent
    Saw the claim on another site (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:34:19 PM EST
    as well.

    Obama stopped Hillary from being able to speak to even the most legitimate differences between the two of their policy plans by painting her out to be the negative Clinton. I think he was practicing to see how he could stop the Republicans.

    But, now McCain is playing Obama's game, and he's playing it better. He has even been moving toward the center so far, the key topics are showing minimal difference in their policies. It's hard not to laugh.

    I think the threat of the videos could be just enough to make them nervous, because we all know they were really in the church for plenty of those podium pounding sermons.
     

    Parent

    Johnson's in the sewer with Rove. (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Ben Masel on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:04:03 AM EST
    He's got what? Unsubstantiated rumors of Republicans spreading unsubstantiated rumors.

    Parent
    But credible rumors. That's the problem. (none / 0) (#106)
    by MarkL on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:06:23 AM EST
    Credible because? (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by Ben Masel on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:30:47 AM EST
    not because he's got the video. He's at this point a willing conduit for Republican smears.

    Parent
    keep repeating to yourself the following: (none / 0) (#119)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:13:51 AM EST
    Mathematically inevitable nominee.  Then sleep soundly!

    Parent
    Please, God? (none / 0) (#4)
    by Shainzona on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:12:40 PM EST
    this doesn't work (none / 0) (#154)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:48:42 AM EST
    I tried it with Kerry the night before the election on 2004.  Prayed to God he would win.  Here we are now.

    Saying "Please Rove!" might yield better results for this.

    Parent

    who knows? (none / 0) (#9)
    by RalphB on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:17:37 PM EST
    Since the GOP probably bought a truck load of those tapes months ago, if there's anything in them they'll find it.  This doesn't seem fair but politics is a contact sport.

    Parent
    OK the silly (none / 0) (#10)
    by PainKillerJayne on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:18:27 PM EST
    Question. What tapes? I want to know.

    Parent
    apparently a tape of Michele (none / 0) (#13)
    by bjorn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:21:06 PM EST
    taling like Rev Wright in church

    Parent
    sorry - talking, not taling! (none / 0) (#17)
    by bjorn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:22:28 PM EST
    But the one that was shown on the link (none / 0) (#72)
    by BarnBabe on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:49:41 PM EST
    Is on the CNN web site. I mentioned it to Jeralyn in  another diary of hers on Conventions. Is there another one?

    Parent
    Wasn't That The HARDBALL Logo In That (none / 0) (#83)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:54:29 PM EST
    video?

    Parent
    that is just a GOP ad in Tennessee (none / 0) (#131)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:23:50 AM EST
    they looped her saying "for the first time in my adult life, I'm proud of my country" and then had some wingnuts saying how they were indeed proud and why.

    The tape that is being rumored about has not been released or seen and may not even exist.  But supposedly it is of her talking bad about white people.

    Parent

    ok....thanks (none / 0) (#193)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:14:25 AM EST
    I don't believe it (none / 0) (#35)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:31:28 PM EST
    The Repubs are not that good at pretending they are going to lose.  You don't have top people running around saying 'we have problems', they are worried about turnout, low registrations, Bush fatigue (disgust)... if they had something, someone, somewhere would have a big cheshire grin.  Someone would be showing some confidence for Nov, but I don't get that impression from the Repubs at all.

    Parent
    But they can't get money NOW (none / 0) (#38)
    by MarkL on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:32:38 PM EST
    .. it doesn't matter if they have a magic bullet for October if they can't fundraise off it.

    Parent
    Republicans don't need money now! (none / 0) (#183)
    by SueBonnetSue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:20:15 AM EST
    They can sit back and watch us squabble.  They'll get the money when they need it.  Lots of rich people in that party.  

    Parent
    I know but isn't Bill some how more (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by bjorn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:24:40 PM EST
    fair game because he has been President. There is just something creepy about making his wife the issue.  Again, I get why people don't connect with her but she is a neophyte who wasn't even that excited about her husband running.  I know they went after Hillary all the time as Bill's wife, so I am sure they will do it. But I did not like it when they did it to Hillary.

    Michelle is fair game. (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by AX10 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:27:57 PM EST
    She has had no problem taking her share of hits at Hillary and Bill.

    Parent
    I agree with you on this. (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by eleanora on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:32:03 PM EST
    Hitting family members just seems out of bounds to me unless the concern is directly related to the candidate's job performance or qualifications. And the misogyny directed against Hillary has also been in play against Michelle in some quarters. I hate that.

    Parent
    It sucks, but don't forget . . . (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by nycstray on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:47:53 PM EST
    they've been doing this to Hillary LONG before she ran for the nomination. And Obama seems fine with it happening to her now . . . Kinda makes me not want to jump up and defend Michelle. Of course it won't stop me {sigh}

    I haven't heard much/any sexist remarks towards Michelle, but I have heard comments about her attitude/what she says.

    Parent

    I know Hillary's been hit with the worst (5.00 / 4) (#118)
    by eleanora on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:13:44 AM EST
    of it, and some from Michelle herself. But I still think we have to call it out, no matter who it's aimed at. TL doesn't put up with sexism towards Michelle, but I've seen it quite a bit on other blogs. And the media tends to talk about her in infuriatingly patronizing ways, which just makes me want to scream. Her attitude is kind of annoying, but they either treat her with disdain or act like she's an amusing pet. And then they discuss her clothes, just like they do with Hillary. Grrrr >:(

    Parent
    Not for nothing... (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:17:33 AM EST
    but the clothes thing is interesting since there seems to be so much intent to style her after Jackie O.

    Though I have to say...the pink outfit? I could've done without. Every time I see that dress I think Dallas Nov. 1963.

    The semiotic strategy is pretty obvious.

    Parent

    Ted Kennedy as VP (none / 0) (#127)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:20:09 AM EST
    it would allow for signs that say: Obama/Kennedy

    How much do you want to bet this is what it's all about?  The Kennedy legacy will grow by leaps and bounds if that name is forever linked in history to the first African American Presidency.

    Obama/Kennedy.  It looks good, on paper.

    Parent

    I have no response... (none / 0) (#129)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:22:31 AM EST
    ::shakes head::

    All this time...Ted's the one wanting the position for himself?

    Parent

    He'll have to wrestle with Richardson first (none / 0) (#141)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:31:53 AM EST
    this event ight take place in the woods of Northern California, I hear.  Richardson likes to give speeches around there.

    Being cryptic is fun. Do I sound like Larry Johnson yet or do I need more foil?

    Parent

    You need a bit more foil... (none / 0) (#199)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:09:12 AM EST
    Though the fight in the woods thing reminded me a lot of the whole Bohemian Grove story.

    Parent
    I would need 3 doubles before I'd (none / 0) (#133)
    by MarkL on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:25:43 AM EST
    even begin to contemplate that scenario

    Parent
    I'm just drunk on life I guess (none / 0) (#144)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:34:37 AM EST
    Influences on the candidate (none / 0) (#109)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:08:21 AM EST
    and those around the candidate, especially a candidate who does not make clear his/her own stands, are significant.  They do directly relate to potential performance as president.

    After all, the Reverend Wright was, we were told, "like family."

    Parent

    I get that, I do. (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by eleanora on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:48:50 AM EST
    And I'm more afraid than ever that McCain's got some game we hadn't seen before, and we're in trouble if Senator Obama is the nominee. But I just hate that religion and his wife might be what takes him out. Hate it. I wish his backers had properly vetted him in 06 so he could have waited a cycle or two and get some of these problems handled before running :(

    Parent
    Remember (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by dissenter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:34:16 PM EST
    The picture on TV where the Obama's were looking so sad after the Wright stuff really blew up. I thought at the time Michelle looked way more down than Obama. And then she disappeared off the scene for the most part. Maybe they know this is coming and that is the reason they lining up all the SDs  in such a panic.

    If this is true, it is indeed a game changer. I don't care what congressman they paid off (I mean the pac money donations) but no way they are gonna stick with that.

    Parent

    Obama may just be that much into himself.. (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by AX10 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:37:16 PM EST
    that he would sink the party in the fall just to get  
    a chance to run for President.
    I do remember that Michelle made herself MIA after the Wright blow-up.  It also could explain the rush to end this thing.

    Parent
    you are right about that, she has been out (none / 0) (#51)
    by bjorn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:40:15 PM EST
    there but very low profile.

    Parent
    if he becomes the Democratic nominee (none / 0) (#160)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:57:10 AM EST
    guaranteed to be in the encyclopedia... forever!

    Parent
    Not Saying It Is A Good Thing To Do, But (none / 0) (#27)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:27:53 PM EST
    politics is politics and once she opened her mouth and insinuated herself in the fray, she is fair game, or so it has been in the past.  How could she not know what she was getting into?  And she has had plenty to say about the opposition, so it would be very hard for me to feel sorry for her.  

    Parent
    If Cindy McCain was (none / 0) (#185)
    by SueBonnetSue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:25:38 AM EST
    Railing against Blacks, would that be off limits?   would you say that shouldn't be an issue in the election if our President is married to a racist who hates Black people?  

    I have a HUGE problem with a President married to someone who is a racist.  I don't care what race they hate.  It's just plain wrong.   Plus, I would have to wonder if the candidate agreed with his wife.  

    Who would marry a racist, other than another racist?  

    This is just creeping me out.  

    Parent

    Yay, I've been waiting (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by eleanora on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:27:48 PM EST
    for an open thread!

    I know ARG is a dreadful pollster, but this analysis by one of their guys is really interesting and uses turnout data v. election results, so I think it might hold up.

    ""A Surprise About Obama, Clinton, and Turnout"

    Conventional wisdom has it that Barack Obama's primary victories are based on his ability to increase turnout.

    A look at what happens when voter turnout increases in the primaries proves that this notion is wrong. In fact, Obama has had his greatest primary (and caucus) victories when turnouts have been low."

    He gives numbers for several primaries that startled me--I thought it was the reverse. Doesn't that give some pause about the idea that Obama is the one driving these massive Dem turnouts?

    Six states aren't enough (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:47:12 PM EST
    for any trends.  Now, I have to go see if I can find what the percent of registered vote was for each state to see if it's true......

    We know he didn't bring out voters in WV. :)

    Anglachel writing on WV.

    Parent

    TY for the link (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by eleanora on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:35:24 AM EST
    That was awesome! I'd love to see whatever data you come up with. Seems like Hillary does win most of the larger states with larger turnouts. But I've mostly seen the percentages cited as registered Dem voters, not as all registered voters in each state. Would be neat to see an apple-to-apples comparison that proves or disproves ARG's thesis. :)

    Parent
    Like I said, he can't win Virginia (none / 0) (#177)
    by SueBonnetSue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:10:45 AM EST
    Unless he puts Mark Warner on his ticket.  

    Obama is losing against McCain in Ohio, PA, Virginia, and Florida.  There is NO way we can lose all of those states and win.  

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Brookhaven on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:35:38 AM EST
    I say he do something unique because we all know he's the change candidate and the one who doesn't do politics.  :)

    Is there a written rule that says he can only have one running mate?  I don't know of one.  So, I think he should run with 4 VP candidates on the ticket.

    Obama/Rendell/Strickland/Kaine/Crisp (with each one being VP for a Year - like the Obama's advertised to Repub's to be "Dems for A Day" during the primaries.  

    That quintet is a sure winner.  The quintessential key to victory. PA, Ohio, VA and Fla all go Blue for Obama.

    I know the campaign buttons, hats, bumper sticker, pens, etc. would be kind of crowded with all those names but I'm sure his supporters will only say "Yes We Can Can Can Can Can".  

    Yeah, I know, Crisp is a Repub but Obama is the one who reaches across all political boundaries and parties and who passionately longs for a gentler, kinder Americkka.

    Obama/Rendell/Strickland/Kaine/Crisp in '09/10/11/12.

    Parent

    Ok, so assume the tape (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by suisser on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:31:29 PM EST
    exists and is held tight till October. Can a candidate "resign"?  I'm thinking along the lines of Miss America... "should you become unable to fulfill your duties the 1st runner up will do so for you"


    lol, that struck me as so funny. (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Teresa on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:37:42 PM EST
    This has become something of a pageant hasn't it?

    Parent
    Probably... (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Jackson Hunter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:39:05 PM EST
    Sure, they probably can resign, but that is unheard of in October.  If our Nominee is forced from the stage like that that late in the game, then it is curtains for us.

    What would intrigue me is who would get the nod then.  One would assume that it would be the person in the VP slot, but I don't know what that would do to the Ballots.  They are printed before October, so it would be "Yeah, vote for Sen. Obama, but it's actually a vote for (Edwards, Clinton, whoever is doomed to be on the ticket with him)."  It would be a nightmare that does not need to happen.

    Jackson

    Parent

    Well Then...Now Would Be A Good Time For (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:44:35 PM EST
    obama to leave the stage.  

    Parent
    If it exists (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by PainKillerJayne on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:41:37 PM EST
    wouldn't that be sweet. Just sayin.

    Parent
    No, it would be sad. (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Cream City on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:45:22 PM EST
    But it still ought to come out, if it exists, for the public's right to know -- about those who influence potential presidents.  We would want to know about it if it was one of his advisors, staffers, etc.  Why? Because they influence him.

    Parent
    there's nothing sad about it (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:54:09 PM EST
    "sad" is what John Kerry likes to say.  We are trying to avert a general election disaster here and get a nominee who can actually win the White House and help turn this economy around.

    Democrats have come this close to nominating an unqualified, inexperienced, unvetted candidate because of an unwillingness to discuss the TRUTH wherever that may lead.  For a long time even this blog did not allow discussion of Jeremiah  Wright.  The media had no plans to report on it and even then they mostly showed the most benign clips from the sermons (except for FOX)

    This is too important now for continued ostrich behavior.

    Hillary deserves nothing less than an unfiltered comparison between the two candidates.  She is too classy to do it herself, but Democrats are not stepping up to "have her back" during this election and it's about time she got a little help.

    This goes beyond whether there is or isn't a tape of Michelle.  Most likely there is not.  But there are so many other things that remain unvetted that it is almost criminal.  Will we allow the Republicans to defeat us this easy?

    I say no, let's fight and stop being sad.

    Parent

    Sad, disappointed etc (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by RalphB on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:02:27 AM EST
    All those wimpy terms have got to go in the political discourse.  They're just too weak and sound silly.  If we're gonna fight, let's do it.

    Parent
    In other words (none / 0) (#98)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:04:22 AM EST
    we agree -- do read beyond my header, beyond the single word with which you disagree.

    Parent
    allrighty (none / 0) (#115)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:11:27 AM EST
    I know you mean well.... but too many are getting co-opted into a losing frame, imo.

    Somebody else called it "lame"  I don't see anything negative whatsoever about seeing reality for what it is.

    I think I know what you meant... however things in the Democratic party have already become a tragedy.  The "it would be" part is obsolete :)

    Parent

    Maybe... (none / 0) (#69)
    by Jackson Hunter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:48:16 PM EST
    If it comes out now, he's done.  But if it comes out in October, that will be one big turd in our collective sweets bag.  :)  If it's true, it needs to come out now before it costs this party everything.

    Jackson

    Parent

    Somehow it will still be Hillary's fault. (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by MarkL on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:51:09 PM EST
    I (none / 0) (#135)
    by PainKillerJayne on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:26:57 AM EST
    agree Hunter

    Parent
    I've gotta run, but I suggest (5.00 / 4) (#52)
    by andgarden on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:41:09 PM EST
    that anyone who thinks that this election will be a cakewalk go read Tom Davis's memo to his Republican House colleagues. (DOC) Obama's weakness are serious.:

    Cultural attitudes shape voter attitudes, and the urbane Swarthmore educated Dukakis and Yalie, John Kerry, lost handily in middle America.  Cultural issues have always been a part of the American political landscape, emerging, at times, in starkly partisan alignments.

    Since the Civil Rights revolution of the 1960's and the Vietnam War, cultural elites have trended Democratic, with many populist lower income whites often moving into the Republican column.  Southern Presidential nominees, with histories of tapping rural voters, have often kept lower income whites in the Democratic camp, while nominees more steeped in academia have faltered.

    Barrack Obama is a quintessential cultural liberal - the candidate of Hyde Park, the University of Chicago and Harvard.  Educated upscale voters from both parties, as well as independents of similar backgrounds, identify with his style and rhetoric.  Blue collar voters aren't so sure.

    Exit polls in West Virginia showed that two thirds of Clinton supporters were unwilling to commit to Obama in the fall - and that's just among Democrats!  With an economy perceived to be failing, these voters should be easy prey to ANY Democrat, but they're not.  Herein lies the key for the McCain campaign, and potentially for alert Republican Congressional candidates.

    Over the last twelve years, partisan alignments have moved away from wealth and economics to cultural and social issues.  Some of the wealthiest precincts in America, from McLean, Virginia to Beverly Hills; from Potomac, Maryland to Beacon Hill; from Newtrier to Shaker Heights, voted for John Kerry by substantial margins.  But Harlan County (Bloody Harlan), Kentucky, Bluefield, West Virginia and most of Appalachia voted overwhelmingly for Bush.

    [. . .]

    I point this out because Obama's appeal is to the liberal cultural base of the Democratic Party, not to its liberal economic base.  His connection to high income suburbs, the granola belt and college towns, is strong, but his connection to poorer whites, rural voters and other voters who may be susceptible to the Democrats' message on the economy is not yet demonstrated.  Conservative value voters are a long way from being sold on Obama, even while they feel pinched by global trade, a soft housing market and high gas prices.  But Republicans have to hold these voters to have any chance in 2008.



    now I have a sinking feeling in my (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by bjorn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:43:26 PM EST
    stomach

    Parent
    I've had it for months (none / 0) (#64)
    by dissenter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:46:09 PM EST
    But this might be what gets Clinton the nomination. At some point, the DNC will have to tell Obama he has to go if this is true. Michelle Obama knows if it is true and I'm sure people are going to be asking some serious questions in the coming days.

    Nobody keeps secrets in DC. If this is true, the DNC has to know and if they do and have done nothing, this party will cease to exist. Seriously.

    Parent

    That's... depressing. (5.00 / 5) (#71)
    by eleanora on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:49:33 PM EST
    I was so excited in January looking at our gorgeous array of smart, talented candidates and thinking I'd be proud to vote for any of them. And of course we were going to win, no question. Can we have the last few months back, please?

    Parent
    Congressional elections will be easy (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by ChuckieTomato on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:52:12 PM EST
    Most are predicting at least 6 senate seat pickups and hopefully 25 house seats

    Parent
    Correct (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by andgarden on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:01:35 AM EST
    But that is sadly unrelated to the Presidential election. Obama is not a very good match for the states he needs to win in November.

    Parent
    Oh oh. You said "sadly" (none / 0) (#105)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:06:06 AM EST
    and I don't think that the adverbial form is allowed, either.  See upthread re my use of "sad."  We have to find new modifiers now, it seems.

    Or we can focus beyond "just words" to thoughts?

    Parent

    eeeek (none / 0) (#163)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:00:39 AM EST
    Sorry to have unloaded some of my greater frustrations with this process as a response to your earlier post! I was speaking beyond just your comment.  Don't worry and say whatever you want.  I'm going to start using that BTD thing: Speaking for me only

    Parent
    Did they think (none / 0) (#80)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:52:56 PM EST
    the whole "Lakoff framing" thingwould fool people?  I guess it fooled some, got a whole bunch of us in the Democratic core mad ( all the honoring Republican presidents, pandering to religion, bashing hippies etc) but they really thought those hard to get voters for the Dems, you know the ones we have been trying to seduce, they would just fall for it?  I guess if you think people are stupid and uneducated you don't give them much credit.  

    Parent
    It has worked splendidly for the (none / 0) (#100)
    by oculus on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:04:57 AM EST
    GOP in 2000 and 2004.  

    Parent
    John McCain promises to bring in Question Time (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by jerry on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:44:23 PM EST
    Wow! Up until now I would have thought there was absolutely no way I could vote for John McCain.  But for the longest time, I have really envied the British Parliament's Question Time, and I think in my past I've said I would vote for the candidate that brought in Question Time.

    Reason Magazine - Hit & Run > Question Time With the Republican President Who Will Appoint Democrats and Reject the Unitary Executive

    I think it's brilliant for McCain to claim to introduce this.  It should help put to rest the claims he is too old to lead.  A raucous question time should show how alert the guy actually is.

    I would really like to see Clinton and Obama match fire with fire.

    So tonight at least, I am a McCain fan.

    Yes, I was extremely impressed with this. (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by masslib on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:59:58 PM EST
    It's literally "new politics".  I don't know who advised him on this, but it is a great idea.

    Parent
    I was also impressed that (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by RalphB on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:05:43 AM EST
    he would do away with "signing statement" and do away with the unitary executive stuff.


    Parent
    Did he say that? Hmm. (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:08:39 AM EST
    He's moving deftly to the middle.

    Parent
    McCain is scaring me more (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by eleanora on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:28:39 AM EST
    than I expected. The Gas Tax Holiday was pretty brilliant pandering, until Hillary stole it and changed the focus to how we pay for it. And he's been courting disaffected Clinton voters in some really subtle ways, plus this new moderate stuff all sounds really good. He's a much much better politician than I'd ever understood.

    Parent
    he launched a "Green Store" (none / 0) (#120)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:15:45 AM EST
    with environmentally friendly items on his website.  Yay McCain!  He's turning into an Eco-warrior/Papa Smurf.  The patriot who will save the forests and America.

    Parent
    McCain has been seriously underestimated. (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by MarkL on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:18:11 AM EST
    He's MUCH more likeable than Bush, and look what the PR people did with him!
    Obama is going to be mean and pissy with McCain, while McCain plays environmentalist and peacemonger and reformer.

    Parent
    I do a poor job of sounding tepid (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:20:50 AM EST
    I need to learn better from BTD.

    Parent
    And unlike Obama (none / 0) (#134)
    by RalphB on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:26:11 AM EST
    who's trying to unify all the fundraising on the left through his own campaign, he's got a page devoted to charities that he and Cindy particularly like and want people to support.

    Eco-warrior/Papa Smurf  :-)


    Parent

    He is moving to the middle (none / 0) (#121)
    by jerry on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:16:17 AM EST
    Of course, that's the classic maneuver once you are the candidate, and both candidates will play this game (which is often seen in The Price is Right.)  The way to break up the game is to get rid of the two party system and have a real legitimate third party.

    And I was forced to listen to Rush in a car this morning, but Limbug was apoplectic over McCain's move to the middle.  Which was nice.

    The problem is that his voting record shows he is a big conservative, so is this just his version of 2000's compassionate conservatism?  (And is Obama really the liberal his supporter's claim he is?)

    Parent

    it would be healthy for our Democracy (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:08:24 AM EST
    I would like to see this from whoever wins the election.

    Parent
    If there would be more than 8 questions (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:16:21 AM EST
    I don't think you'd see it with Obama.:-)

    Parent
    that'd be 8 disappointed sweeties (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:37:07 AM EST
    Wouldn't Hillary (5.00 / 5) (#148)
    by eleanora on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:37:39 AM EST
    rock at that? And I'd pay good money to see President Bush go through question time. PPV could go to the National Debt.

    Parent
    yea, it would get huge ratings (none / 0) (#166)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:06:12 AM EST
    families could tune in and watch together and be informed and... oh it's just too SAD to think about it anymore... if we never get to see it happen.

    Parent
    OK (5.00 / 5) (#70)
    by phat on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:49:26 PM EST
    This Clinton supporters are racists thing has to stop right now.

    I can't even tell how angry I am right now.

    Obama supporters need to put a sock in it right now.

    That is all.

    a paid Obama blogger will be with you shortly (5.00 / 7) (#107)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:06:23 AM EST
    IAWTC (none / 0) (#86)
    by eleanora on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:58:25 PM EST
    Lately I've been trying to convince myself that the worst smears of "racist white trash" are all from Repubs and Ron Paulites trying to mess with our party and not trufax Obama supporters. Please don't tell me if it's not true.

    Parent
    Nope (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by phat on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:05:48 AM EST
    It's not true.

    It's a long story, but on another blog, in a discussion of the Nebraska primary an Obama supporter (who I don't think is a Republican troll) just dropped the R bomb. On top of that, he claims that Obama supporters didn't show up to the primary (after our caucus in Feb.) because the didn't care about down-ticket races.

    Um, Houston, we have a problem.

    Parent

    Yeow. (none / 0) (#151)
    by eleanora on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:42:37 AM EST
    They really need not to push that idea, because the whole "Obama turnout helps everyone!" meme is one of his biggest selling points. These excuses for Obama losing usually make matters much worse--if so many voters are racist even in the Dem party, how on earth can he win the GE?

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#157)
    by phat on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:51:54 AM EST
    I'll know in a few days if they did actually showed up in my county.

    Dollars to donuts the Clinton supporters from the caucuses showed in the primary and the Obama supporters didn't.

    Parent

    I heard (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:57:43 AM EST
    that in one state where they were selecting delegates tons of Obama supporters didn't show up. So many in fact that they were going through alternates and that Clinton would end up getting some seats because because there wouldn't be enough Obama supporters to fill the slots.

    I also heard that in TX, Obama supporters from many counties never showed up at the convention.

    Parent

    Does Surprise Me At All That Obama (none / 0) (#169)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:19:07 AM EST
    new supporters don't care about down-ticket races. Obama is campaigning as the Obama Party and not as a candidate for the Democratic Party so why expect anything else.

    Parent
    Even a doubt? oBots movement limited to Obama (none / 0) (#218)
    by Ellie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:03:52 AM EST
    This glass floor between an Obama vote and downticket races doesn't surprise me.

    When it ceases to be about Obama's supporters specifically, they can barely stay awake through a 20-min speech (and these are the hardcore ones picked for his media backdrop).

    Check out the ennui in Obama's policy speech before the Edwards endorsement, which selected supporters along the same lines as Bush's applausebots.

    Parent

    Found This On NO QUARTER...Good For A (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:51:47 PM EST
    I printed some of those out (none / 0) (#208)
    by samanthasmom on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:50:15 AM EST
    and laminated them for my friends.  

    Parent
    The mind wanders... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Alec82 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:51:57 PM EST
    ...with respect to the HIV positive man sentenced to 35 years....legal/factual impossibility?  I mean...according to the CDC there is no indication that a saliva has ever resulted in transmission of HIV.  I wrote about criminal transmission statutes in undergrad, though, and guys have been prosecuted for attempted murder for spitting at prison guards.

     I'll give TX the benefit of the doubt and assume that he knew he was HIV+ and intended to transmit the virus...he was originally arrested for public intoxication, though, so the latter at least is probably unlikely.

     Of course, he's black.  Some things in Texas never change.  

     

    Hillary supporters, listen please (5.00 / 4) (#99)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:04:47 AM EST
    It is time to toughen up, ready yourselves for battle and stand with Hillary against this orchestrated disaster that is being hoisted on the Democratic Party and the country.

    Make no apologies for speaking the truth, or inquiring about the truth, ever.

    Do you realize what is at stake here?  The opposition has had no qualms about launching full frontal attacks against our party's best candidate.  Michelle Obama herself took a personal shot at Hillary when she said something like: "if you can't take care of your own house, you certainly can't run the White House."

    As Obama likes to say, "words matter."  People choose their words. Politicians even more so.  Nobody forces anyone to say anything.  It is not upon us to make apologies for their behavior.

    Hillary deserves an honest accounting of what has actually gone on in this election.  It is not too late.  I am tired of the timidness.

    I may be a tepid McCain supporter now but I will always be an enthusiastic believer in fairness.

    This has not been a fair process.  The Clinton side has been on the short end of that baragain on multiple accounts.  The deck is rigged in this poker game and despite all that Hillary is hanging in there with a few chips holding that 7-2 offsuite.  Let's just see the damn flop!

    Is this your St. Crispin's Day speech? (5.00 / 4) (#108)
    by oculus on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:07:52 AM EST
    Pretty rousing, I'd say.

    Parent
    tingle worthy? (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:16:44 AM EST
    If not, I'll try harder.

    Parent
    Reserving judgment; but I did agree (none / 0) (#130)
    by oculus on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:23:21 AM EST
    with whichever commenter sd. Hillary Clinton's speech after the WV primary sent a shiver down her spine.  A really excellent soprano has the same effect on my spine though.

    Parent
    my best stuff is being reserved for McCain (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:29:09 AM EST
    "Oh yea," says the Kool-Aid man

    Parent
    That was me! We do a different kind of (none / 0) (#139)
    by Teresa on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:29:22 AM EST
    Opry in Tennessee though. (Actually college football is my tingle weakness.)

    Parent
    How 'bout this? (none / 0) (#207)
    by cmugirl on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:47:05 AM EST
    Bluto:  Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!

    Otter: Germans?

    Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.

    ==========

    Let's go get 'em!

    Parent

    I'm with you! (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by AX10 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:08:34 AM EST
    I will stand with Hillary all the way.
    For me:

    Obama v. McCain, I vote McCain.
    Clinton v. McCain, I vote Clinton!

    Parent

    SGBTRv.W (none / 0) (#132)
    by oculus on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:23:51 AM EST
    Heh (none / 0) (#136)
    by RalphB on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:27:50 AM EST
    You're not voting with Hillary, though (none / 0) (#182)
    by wmr on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:19:10 AM EST
    She has said that there is far greater distance between her and MaCain than between her and Obama.  She has also said that she will campaign for the Democratic nominee whoever it may be.

    For myself, the difference is federal appointments and judges.  I'm not sure this country can survive another four years of Republican mismanagement in, for example, Justice, EPA, FEMA.

    Parent

    I disagree (none / 0) (#184)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:22:33 AM EST
    She's just being diplomatic when she says that, imo.  Obama looks closer on paper but I don't trust him.  

    Parent
    but I'm personally closer to Mccain (none / 0) (#187)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:29:26 AM EST
    I am very centrist/moderate and his positions are actually closer to mine than Obama, with Hillary out of the picture.

    Parent
    She is my candidate, she is not my Guru. (none / 0) (#213)
    by feet on earth on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:50:56 AM EST
    I have a brian and I'll use it when time comes to make a decision.

    She may as well go ahead and be the party's Joan of Ark, but I am no martyr.  This party has treated the Clinton and their supporters as if we were the Huguenots.

    No justice no peace - Denver if need be

    PS: I am a low information working class woman with little formal education due to lack of opportunities. I am proud of having educated myself through self-directed studies, becouse I do not h

    Parent

    on to the convention and if (none / 0) (#221)
    by hellothere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:09:15 AM EST
    obama supporters don't like it, tough!

    Parent
    This election should go to the Convention (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by RalphB on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:17:42 AM EST
    When the delegates have cast their votes, it'll be over and not one minute before.


    Parent
    Agree but (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by nellre on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:51:30 AM EST
    Please think supreme court.
    Stevens is 88
    Ginsburg is 75
    Breyer is 70
    Souter is 69
    swing judge is Kennedy is 72

    In 4 to 8 years surely Stevens will need to retire (or even pass away!)
    Ginsburg is unlikely remain in the court another 8 years.

    If for no other reason please do not let McCain become the president. Generations of Americans depend on us to not let that happen.
    Please do not let that happen no matter what.

    We can settle our differences within the progressive sphere "off line".


    Parent

    Obama and his bots (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by dissenter on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:14:05 AM EST
    Have had no trouble dissing me and other Americans for months. I think it is a little a late in the game to come pleading for unity and peace. We aren't the ones that lit the match.

    The court is troublesome but frankly reproductive rights are only one issue in this election and I don't trust Obama on that anyway.

    In the long run, this disaster might return this party to its roots. If not, it is time start anew.

    Parent

    As I said many times before, (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by feet on earth on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:29:48 AM EST
    the Supreme Court argument thrown in our faces is a boogieman act.  Everyday someone comes over here and spread it around as farmers spread manure on their fields.

    We marched for our reproductive rights for years, we got it on the books, by-an-large the younger generation did not pick up the torch, it was theirs to protect by supporting Hillary.  
    They did not, and therefore it is then their problem and their responsibilities.

    Our problems and responsibilities are very different, just to name a few:
    Real Universal Health Care
    No Privatization of Social Security
    Jobs that provide a decent standard of living - Economic Justice Policies
    Housing policies and regulations that allows us to keep our houses
    Fair taxation for fair income distribution

    Hillary is the better candidate for where the country is at right now.  Period.  Obama is a nice young man with no political appeal to me and my family.

    No justice no peace - Denver if need be.

    Parent

    Not manure (5.00 / 1) (#224)
    by wmr on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:14:04 AM EST
    There is more at stake with the Supreme Court than just Roe.  Just one recent example is the decision on Voter ID in Indiana.

    And there is more at stake than simply the Supreme Court--the executive branch proposes nominees to be federal judges.  Also there is the entire Federal bureaucracy: Department of Justice and FEMA are just two of the agencies that Republican appointees have devestated.

    We must start turning this around as soon as possible.  We cannot allow another four years of Republican mismanagement.

    Parent

    You know what? (none / 0) (#196)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:04:13 AM EST
    This argument fails to move me. If the party is so darn concerned about these issues then why do they want put forth a known general election loser? If the party doesn't really care about those issues why should I?

    If you are concerned about those issues then we need to nominate Hillary.

    Parent

    See (none / 0) (#211)
    by samanthasmom on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:57:16 AM EST
    Pocket Guide to the Obamaniac Behavior Cycle Orange Section

    Parent
    convention! the dems have not shown (none / 0) (#222)
    by hellothere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:10:48 AM EST
    they are worth much even with real power, you know like since 2006. i cannot trust them to look out for us since they haven't done much in the past decade.

    Parent
    HRC supporter America Ferrer twofer tonight (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Ellie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:05:11 AM EST
    She was on Letterman tonight talking about door-knocking with Chelsea Clinton. I love them both. Ferrer is adorable.

    And on Ugly Betty, there was this sly reference to the Obama campaign in an exchange between Betty (Ferrer) and her boss Daniel:

    [after mutual encouragement for what the characters are about to face]

    Daniel: We can do this!

    Ferrer: [uncharacteristically smacking his @ss] Yes We Can!!!

    [They exchange a moment of surprise]

    Daniel: Well, THAT was unexpected!

    annnnnd scene!
    (LOL)

    Thanks for (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:12:31 AM EST
    the downticket info Dalton.  

    Dalton (none / 0) (#171)
    by shoephone on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:24:24 AM EST
    I appreciated your diary from the other day as well. You were very magnanimous.

    Parent
    From California: Bay Area Shock and Awe. (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by magnetics on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:33:27 AM EST
    Schwarzenegger and the Feds are planning to spray a pheromone pesticide in microcapsules over much of the urban Bay Area, to attempt eradication of an agricultural pest, the Light Brown Apple Moth (LBAM).

    The pheromone is supposedly harmless for humans, but the toxicity of the encapsulating material is unknown, and the ingredients held secret by the maker.  A federal exemption from human safety regulations has been obtained, so the project can go forward.  Preliminary spraying in Santa Cruz county (not highly urban) resulted in a reported 600 cases of respiratory distress.

    Months ago I diaried it at Calitics.com, with this link: <http://calitics.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5138>.  Visitors and comments much appreciated.

    Very little has happened to stop this.  I think the story has national political implications, because I don't think it would happen over a largely Republican populace.

    Please let me know your thoughts.

    Peace.

    Wow. Ag certainly has a LOT of clout (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:33:24 AM EST
    in Cali, don't they?

    First the grapevine pest - sorry, been a couple years, can't remember the name.  Organic farmers were screaming bloody murder because the state was going to spray their land with pesticides.  It takes freaking years of "transitional" chem free status before growers can get certified organic and the sprays were going to literally know organic growers back years.

    I know CA has a natural barriers to pest migration (oceans and mountains) but the state is not an island.  The odds that any pest can be completely and permanently eradicated are slim.

    As I always tell the anxious home gardeners, "The goal is control, not elimination.".

    Parent

    OK, so read this letter. (5.00 / 3) (#143)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:33:50 AM EST
    It's from a group of women that includes my Senate president.  Apparently, uh, Dean agrees, regardless of delegates, the votes from FL and MI count.  Why hasn't he informed the media?  Hmmm.

    http://www.countthevotes.net/id1.html

    I just saw that link at the Confluence. (5.00 / 0) (#150)
    by Teresa on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:41:37 AM EST
    I'm glad he agrees (per the letter) that the votes count and are separate from the delegates being seated. That helps the popular vote arguement but I expect it to persuade exactly zero Super D's. It would certainly help if he made a pubic statement and might get a few to at least consider the will of the people that used to matter so much to the Obama campaign.

    Parent
    It's not about SDs. Not now anyway. (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:58:13 AM EST
    Fact is Dean knew they should have been included and never bothered to tell the media.  Had these votes been reported in pop vote totals as they should have been where she was in this primary  could have and I think would have been perceived differently.  He needs to stop sitting on his hands and issue a statement.

    Parent
    He will. After May 20. (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by oculus on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:00:12 AM EST
    He needs to right now. (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:08:45 AM EST
    He's admitted they count and we need him to issue a statement now.

    Parent
    Nah (none / 0) (#168)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:10:30 AM EST
    that would be too obvious... a real slap in the face...  oh wait.

    Parent
    Obviously, I meant public statement. I really (none / 0) (#152)
    by Teresa on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:44:21 AM EST
    need some sleep. :)

    Parent
    Nite all (5.00 / 0) (#158)
    by PainKillerJayne on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:52:25 AM EST
    I love the fact I found this site. All of my anti Bush blogs went to I love Obama blogs.It is great to see I am not the only one in the blogworld that has qualms about Barry.

    Hillary in Denver!

    Jeralyn, (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by eleanora on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:10:49 AM EST
    did you see this article on FL and MI? I'm so mad right now I could just spit. They're talking about Obama graciously allowing Clinton to have some delegates, as if there were no voters involved at all.

    "But Obama has such a lead that he may be able to afford to be generous and give Clinton most of the delegates. That would help put the issue behind them and help him build good will in Michigan and Florida heading into the November election.

    Still, some of Obama's supporters think the fairest solution is to disregard the primary votes and split the delegations evenly between the two candidates.

    "It has to be a fair process for both candidates," said member Yvonne Gates, an Obama supporter from Nevada who said she wasn't sure what position she would support at the meeting. "My definition is a 50-50 split is something that is fair. It cannot be a situation where you give one candidate more votes than the other. In my opinion that wasn't an election when they didn't have a chance to get out and talk to the people of that community."

    GIVE one candidate more votes? The voters decide that, not the DNC. IDK who this Nedra Pickler is, but a fair and impartial journalist she is not.

    Obama (5.00 / 1) (#209)
    by cmugirl on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:51:16 AM EST
    apparently hasn't been reading the letters to the editor or comments in the blog sections of the Detroit papers.  It's just not the blogosphere - people in Michigan are not happy with him and many saw through his stunt of the Edwards endorsement taking place in Michigan.

    Get the popcorn, lie back, and watch the fireworks!

    Parent

    Elizabeth and Hillary (5.00 / 3) (#198)
    by facta non verba on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:49:35 AM EST
    I just read the P.L. diary (5.00 / 2) (#210)
    by Molly Pitcher on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:51:31 AM EST
    and noted one thing that I think is maybe 'off.'

    "And the unfortunate fact is that every single voter who is at least 60 years old what at least 16 years old when the Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964 means that older white voters grew up in an environment where racial prejudice and stereotyping were a given,"

    We, the elderly, are often exactly those same people who worked hard to get the civil rights act passed and, more importantly, implemented.  We marched, we sent our kids to newly-integrated schools, we brought new black friends into our homes--I could go on a lot longer about the fact that that is just the group of white people who are inclined to actually welcome a black candidate.  (But not this one.  Really.)

    I live in the south--in a state that tried very hard to resist integration.  What do I see now?  Black and white friends having fun together, black and white townspeople working for the common good,  black and white dating, black and white marriage.

    You know what?  We are the people who grew up with blacks, who realized old prejudices (back of the bus) were abhorent, who already knew that black did not truly equal different in ways that counted, who had already had a suspicion that lack of a decent education and opportunities were behind the undoubted cultural differences that did exist then.

    Doubt me?  Think about something I just realized:  The 'first black president' was governor of the state which includes Little Rock.  Remember those iconic pictures?  Should Bill have turned out to be prejudiced?  P.L.'s remarks might indicate that.  I do not know Bill's age (unimportant to me), but I seem to recall there was a picture of him and JFK together--so Bill was also 'pre-civil rights)!

    TINS has a new diary up. (5.00 / 1) (#217)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:00:17 AM EST
    If anyone cares.

    If you stop by, give bink some love.  Still can't believe that some people are still trying to fight the good fight over there.  When I said "Who is there to talk to?" a few days ago, I realized what the answer was - almost no one.  Go to a community blog with hundreds of diaries every day, with tens of thousands of comments and talk to a half a dozen people?  At the cost of scanning diary after diary, and spending time sifting through the comments for something substantial?

    Then there are gems like this:
    These women need to be stopped.

    Yup.  I thought the Pie War was much ado about very little once, but now I'm beginning to think not.  After all, if the O Team really wanted to woo women voters, the first thing they would do is ask women what they want.  And listen to the answers.

    What do they do?  Tell women what is "good for them" and what they should want and denounce any women who don't agree.  

    Sigh.  Tell me, Oh Great Democratic Party, what's in it for me?

    Michelle Obama (3.66 / 3) (#11)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:19:48 PM EST
    is fair game.  If she chooses to inject herself into the fray, all bets are off.  The only people who should ALWAYS ALWAYS be off limits are the children.

    Someone in here commented one time that Michelle Obama is her own 527, with respect to her self-inflicted damaging comments.  When she said that "how can someone run for the White House when they can't run their OWN house", made me lose any and all respect for that hateful human being.

    In Texas, we have a word for her:  tacky.

    Even Laura Bush isn't that disgraceful.

    She's comparable to barbara Bush, IMO (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by MarkL on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:24:55 PM EST
    yeap, she lost me a long time ago with that (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Monda on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:33:24 PM EST
    comment.  
    I should add that I don't think it's fair to go after spouses.  However, it happens.  Remember how they went after Heinz in 2004?  Also, IF such tape exists, of course the GOP will take full advantage of it, and for that matter the American public has the right to know.  After "first time proud", "America mean" etc it would fit the larger picture.  Plus "the greatest speech of all times" goes down the toilette if this tapes exists and the public divorce from Wright will be seen for what it was: political expediency.

    Parent
    That would be me (5.00 / 0) (#91)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:00:47 AM EST
    that has said she is her own 527.  I was asked about it and suggested googling Michelle.  It isn't just quotes she has made and interviews she has given.  Quotes eh, not much impact.  The problem.....She is on tape at the colleges etc, where she says America is mean, American's are cynics and sloths, etc... great fun.

    Parent
    That comment was taken out of context (3.00 / 2) (#140)
    by jerry on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:31:14 AM EST
    She really and truly didn't say that meaning to disparage the Clintons.  If you listen to the entire quote, and not just the cherry picked portion of it, she is being quite reasonable and discussing the values of Barack and her as they brought up their kids.

    At another site today, I bit back as someone mentioned Clinton saying Obama might be a muslim....  So I have to push back on this one too.

    Didn't happen.  You've been victimized by the media.

    Parent

    excuse YOU (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:12:27 AM EST
    UNLIKE the Obama supporters, I am NOT a victim of ANYTHING.

    it is the OBAMA camp that is constantly crying and whining.  Creative class?  No.  The Victim Class.  

    Please take that shrill to another place.  No one here is a victim.

    Parent

    You will Have to Excuse the New Hires (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by dissenter on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:37:32 AM EST
    Obama just hired 400 bloggers to make us see the light lol. I guess they will be camped here for the duration. Agree with you totally and I am sick of being called a racist. Some things you can't be put back in the box and he has only himself to blame.

    Parent
    400 new ones? (none / 0) (#200)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:28:38 AM EST
    That's a lot of blogging.

    Parent
    Um okay, you're not a victim (1.00 / 1) (#189)
    by jerry on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:35:36 AM EST
    Since Obama never said the quote you attributed to her with the connotation you are supplying, and since you're not a victim, I guess you're distributing this bogus smear intentionally, with malice and forethought?

    Parent
    donchu (none / 0) (#202)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:10:40 AM EST
    have a paycheck to pick up from Obama, Inc.

    Sorry, but I was alive during the Guyana Tragedy and remember it.  I avoid the Kool-Aid.

    Parent

    that's just plain false jerry (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by Dr Molly on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:46:55 AM EST
    I have seen that clip many times and she very precisely took an underhanded jab at Hillary - "I mean.... if you can't run your own house (sly smirk), how can you run the White House?" It was disgusting, and it is burned in my memory because I had always liked and admired Michelle and was very disappointed that she talked that trash.

    Parent
    you need to go do your homework (none / 0) (#225)
    by hellothere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:15:39 AM EST
    and stop taking us for fools.

    Parent
    Pffft! (none / 0) (#226)
    by befuddled on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:20:08 AM EST
    Maybe my bifocals are getting pretty strong now, but I can watch a number of videos and make my own judgement about what a person's communication style is saying. When the words and context and body language are all there, what's left to be an excuse for misconstruing the message? Sure, there's never going to be 100% agreement in any audience larger than about 7 people, but when something just hits a lot of people wrong, there is no denying that the stimuli are adding up the same way for them.

    Parent
    I don't think Laura Bush is disgraceful, (none / 0) (#57)
    by oculus on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:43:55 PM EST
    Did Obama Call Michigan Facgory Workers (none / 0) (#2)
    by LibOne on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:11:30 PM EST
    Communists?  I read this on a couple of other blogs but no link or background information was provided.  Could someone please provide me with verifiable facts?

    Can't get ot Paul's post...is there a better link (none / 0) (#3)
    by Shainzona on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:12:02 PM EST


    scroll down to the recent diaries list on the (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Teresa on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:16:22 PM EST
    right side of the front page.

    Parent
    What's up with CSI? (none / 0) (#15)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:21:52 PM EST
    They killed Warick?!?!

    He's dead? (none / 0) (#18)
    by dissenter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:23:38 PM EST
    I know he just got busted for heroin or something. That's a bummer. I liked Warrick

    Parent
    Shot in the neck... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:29:22 PM EST
    by the under sheriff (he's the mob mole in the dept.).

    Parent
    Damn....I Haven't Watched It Yet....The Guy Who (none / 0) (#21)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:25:48 PM EST
    plays Warrick is facing some drug charges, maybe they are cutting him loose from the show.  As long as they don't bring back Sara, I will continue watching.

    Parent
    The actor left the show (none / 0) (#31)
    by eleanora on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:29:51 PM EST
    "by mutual agreement," but the producers talked about him having personal problems and needing space. So sad, sounds like he's got at least an alcohol problem and probably drugs too. The DA from L&O:SVU got fired as well, tough times on the crime shows.

    Parent
    Apparently we have been able to leave TL (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by BarnBabe on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:59:24 PM EST
    for a few shows. Heh.

    Parent
    Casey? (none / 0) (#95)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:02:28 AM EST
    Or the woman from that Tony Danza show (don't know her name)?

    Parent
    Y, Casey (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by eleanora on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:08:43 AM EST
    I don't watch it often, but I read about it on Defamer (blushes with shame.) The producer were trying to replace her without a big deal, but she called the cast and crew together on the set and made a big, PO'd announcement that she'd been fired and stomped off. Good for her, don't let them sneak you out the door. Apparently there was no reason, either, they just wanted to shake up the show.

    Parent
    excellent... (none / 0) (#117)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:12:32 AM EST
    I liked her character.

    Parent
    well that explains that... (none / 0) (#32)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:30:36 PM EST
    have not been paying attention.

    Just watched it and was left with a really weird vibe.

    Parent

    warwick (none / 0) (#29)
    by PainKillerJayne on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:28:46 PM EST
    was leaving end of season.

    Parent
    He had been doing drugs and they (none / 0) (#87)
    by BarnBabe on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:58:35 PM EST
    were dumping him as I understand it. Then he was caught in that car in Palm Springs with the goods on him. But, he was already out of there. I figured the car would blow up or he was getting shot as he walked out of the restaurant or someone was in the back seat. I didn't see the knock on the window coming but I knew this was it.

    Parent
    That one caught me by surprise! (none / 0) (#55)
    by nycstray on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:43:09 PM EST
    I'm wondering if he survived the second bullet. First looked like a pass through in the neck. . . .   but the second, dunno.

    Parent
    I dunno... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:45:21 PM EST
    That neck wound looked serious.

    Wonder what the guy tossed into the car...

    Parent

    The gun (none / 0) (#74)
    by nycstray on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:51:38 PM EST
    he was wiping it off and then tossed it in.

    Parent
    Looked like he (none / 0) (#66)
    by PainKillerJayne on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:47:16 PM EST
    was still breathhng.

    Parent
    I thought so also (none / 0) (#84)
    by nycstray on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:55:20 PM EST
    and that's why the second shot has me wondering. It was dark, the guy didn't check too close . . .

    I'm hoping he lives and leaves the dept due to unable or wanting to do the job anymore. But hey! I'm feeling sunny side up tonight, lol! ~

    Parent

    If so... (none / 0) (#90)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:00:03 AM EST
    he can tell them who shot him.

    Parent
    He's in a back alley... (none / 0) (#85)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:56:28 PM EST
    behind a dive restaurant (cop diner...but still). What are the odds he doesn't bleed out?

    Parent
    VP By Force (none / 0) (#59)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:44:27 PM EST
    Interesting articleon Real Clear Politics explaining how the choice of VP for Obama could end up not being his own choice.

    I would enjoy that. If he were to get the nomination, it would be a sign of his ability to hold the extremely high office of POTUS by how he can deal with group decisions that aren't of his liking.


    Like you think they got behind him because of (none / 0) (#78)
    by BarnBabe on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:52:51 PM EST
    leadership or judgment. It is like sending in another puppet in order to gain back control of congress from the Presidency.They will call the shots. He needs to smile and check with them first before answering a new conference question.

    Parent
    Ha (none / 0) (#197)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:09:19 AM EST
    I could see the party forcing him to take Hillary as VP and him skulking out of the convention.

    Parent
    Obama isn't doing so hot in Iowa general (none / 0) (#61)
    by tigercourse on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:44:59 PM EST
    election polls. Ras (which does tend to poll him lower in Iowa then others) gives him just a 2 point lead. If you look at the 4 most recent polls, they average a good deal lower then polls in January and February.

    how they would vote now (none / 0) (#153)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:46:48 AM EST
    you know many people have wondered how those early primaries/caucuses would have turned out if the Wright tapes and the bitter/cling comments had been out there.  Obama has lost ground across all demographic groups except one for over two months and has only won Vermont and NC.  Guam is being recounted, but let's give him Guam.

    Parent
    I would also factor in how Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by oculus on Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:49:23 AM EST
    has rallied working class people, especially non-AA men, which was not the case in the early primaries.  Plus, I'm not convinced that the more people get to know Obama the more they want to vote for him.  

    Parent
    yea, if that were true he should have won PA (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:01:59 AM EST
    caucuses need to be discontinued. (5.00 / 1) (#227)
    by hellothere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:53:20 AM EST
    they are basically not democratic in that a limited number of particpants are included. the old, infirm and those with two jobs are left out. what is fair with that? also they can more easily be used for purposes of disenfranchising voters. see texas!

    Parent
    Nice Diary Dalton n/t (none / 0) (#170)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:19:51 AM EST


    Comment Display Messed Up (none / 0) (#173)
    by wmr on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:47:07 AM EST
    Approximately one time in three, the comments come up without the display option boxes and the comments are not nested, as I have chosen.  The numbers do appear, though; that's how I know that I'm not getting a simple flat display.  Rather, the nested comments are all pushed over to the left margin.  Reloading the comments sometimes restores the nesting, but usually doesn't.

    Does this happen to anybody else?  

    MIchelle is one angry woman (none / 0) (#175)
    by SueBonnetSue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 01:56:30 AM EST
    Why?  What does she have to be so darn angry about?  Private school education, Princeton and Yale, plenty of money, a great job, married to a Senator, and two beautiful children.  What's this woman so angry about?  

    I assume that Obama's mother is dead since I've never seen her with him, or even a picture of her.  He has mentioned his white grandmother, so I am guessing she is alive, but not his mother.  Can anyone tell me when his mother died?  Is that why his grandparents raised him?  

    Obama's mother is an odd tale. (none / 0) (#204)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:25:58 AM EST
    She gave birth to Obama at 18, married and divorced his father rather quickly.  She married again and moved to Indonesia where they lived for four years.  At age ten, Obama asked to go live with her parents in HI and she agreed, reluctantly.  She lived abroad for most of her life and died at age 52 of ovarian and uterine cancer.

    Frankly, his mom sounds like a very neat woman.  His dad?  Oy, let's just say it's a good thing his mom had sense enough to divorce him.

    Parent

    Is there a reason to live (none / 0) (#219)
    by BarnBabe on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:05:10 AM EST
    abroad most of her life? Doesn't matter really. Just wondering. Did she not like the United States or did she just like overseas better?  Was it for the sake of the husband? There are so many scenerios.  She was a cool Mother because at 10 I wanted to live with my Aunts and Uncles, (They were a lot of fun and I had no rules) but my Mother said no.  

    Parent
    from what i have read she was sorta a (5.00 / 1) (#228)
    by hellothere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:55:47 AM EST
    60s type liberal. she didn't want to associate with americans in her adopted country. it sounds like she didn't like america and maybe rejected much about it. now who does that remind me of????

    Parent
    She followed her bliss. (none / 0) (#223)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:11:28 AM EST
    She appeared to have a series of rewarding careers which were specific to the places she lived.  You can look her up in the wikipedia if you like.  I'd have to read Obama's writings to see why he preferred to live with his grandparents instead of his mother.

    Parent
    Obama's tall tale (none / 0) (#176)
    by Serene1 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:00:31 AM EST
    Just because you attend a good school (none / 0) (#205)
    by kayla on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:31:00 AM EST
    and have good parents doesn't mean you don't carry racial scars.  Especially if you're the only black kid at the school or if the people who raised you are white.  It's actually extremely alienating, I can tell you that first hand.

    tell you what many of us have scars (none / 0) (#216)
    by hellothere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:59:11 AM EST
    of different kinds. nobody is special.

    Parent