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Overnight Open Thread

This may be our first overnight open thread but I'm blogged out and you all seem to have more to say.

Here's your place. Big Tent Democrat will probably be back in the morning for a W. Va. wrap up posts.

My final thoughts: Obama is likely to do as poorly in KY as he did in W. VA. Counting MI and FL votes (not delegates), she's going to either top Obama or get really close to him in the popular vote total.

As to what you can do, here's my suggestion: [more...]

If you live in a state that went for Hillary, check out the superdelegates from your state that are in Congress. Write them and tell them that since Hillary won in your state and she's the most electable in November, if they do not support her, you will take that into account in deciding whether to encourage someone else to run for his or her seat in the Democratic primary next time around.

And, if Obama is the nominee and loses in the general, you will hold them personally responsible because they should have known Hillary was the more electable and they did a disservice to Democrats everywhere by voting against the candidate that had the best chance of winning.

Tell them you will do your best to make sure the primary opponent campaigns against them using the argument that not only did he or she go against the will of the voters in your state, he or she made a bad judgment call. People who make bad judgments like that shouldn't be serving in Congress.

There's nothing these Senators and Congresspersons hate more than a contested primary. It distracts them, costs money and keeps them on edge. They care about getting re-elected more than anything else. That's your leverage. In my opinion.

Comments now closed.

< Hillary's Win Grows in West Virginia | The Creative Class' Condescension Towards Clinton Democrats >
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  • Display: Sort:
    WVA Final Tally (5.00 / 11) (#1)
    by interestedcanuck on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:31:07 AM EST
    HRC- 67%
    BHO- 26%

    Total vote margin- 147K+

    Wow, what a very impressive result for the Senator from NY

    Here's hoping for more of the same in the few contests that are left

    41% margin of victory (5.00 / 9) (#6)
    by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:51:21 AM EST
    let the media chew on that

    [ Parent ]
    HOWARD DEAN and Electability (5.00 / 11) (#57)
    by andrys on Wed May 14, 2008 at 06:00:14 AM EST
    Pardon me for re-posting this but I just posted it in a thread that's closing, and most pundits don't even know about this very important dynamic and latest thinking by Howard Dean.

      That 41% margin is HUGER than we know precisely because of Dean's most recently stated focus about superdelegate decisions.  

      * It's no longer just "about the math" - a term some news people (like Mika) just learned and are roboting all over creation * and which Olberman prefers to believe.

     Dean said, on April 25, that 'Electability' is now the thing.

    In an interview with The Financial Times, Howard Dean gave his thoughts as Chairman of the DNC re the following:
    [as reported -- excerpts below)

    The Democratic party's "superdelegates" have every right to overturn the popular vote and choose the candidate they believe would be best equipped to defeat John McCain in a general election, according to Howard Dean, chairman of the US Democratic National Committee.

    . . .
    He said there was nothing in the DNC's rules that would prevent the party's unelected superdelegates, who make up about a fifth of the overall delegate tally and who will ultimately pick the winner, from "doing what they want".
    . . .
    "I think the race is going to come down to the perception in the last six or eight races of who the best opponent for McCain will be. I do not think in the long run it will come down to the popular vote or anything else."

    He said that quite clearly.  The pundits either didn't see it or are ignoring it.  I suspect that internal polling has shown lessened strength in Obama's numbers post-Wright, when it comes to conservative votes in the GE, since the rest of the world (not just Democrats) will be choosing in November.  West Virginia was a real illustration of that.

    Note that Dean puts emphasis on the last 6-8 contests and to momentum.

    Also, it is never over at this point - the superdelegates are allowed to change their minds until they've voted in August.

    Even Anderson Cooper didn't know that.  He told John King he thought that they decided and that was it.  He visibly hoped, in fact, that if superdelegates helped the endorsement numbers to reach 2025 before May 31, that the Rules Committee would not have to meet because we had a nominee!  John King corrected him on that.

    No, it's not over until August unless a certain party gives in, and there's no reason to do so at this point.  This helps a party that wants to avoid a McGovern rout (the reason the superdelegates rules were created).

    Obama supporters should be glad they also changed in the past from winner-takes-all, to this newer proportional method, or Hillary would clearly be the presumptive nominee now. As it is, just NOTHING is 'clear'  or any sure thing.

    And, again, it's no longer "It's about the math" because the numbers include old-data before problems were known and latest-info must also be considered by the superdelegates and weighed, up until August.  Superdelegates can change their minds until then even if Hillary were to suspend her campaign in June.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree with you (5.00 / 4) (#96)
    by standingup on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:24:44 AM EST
    but there is a problem when they continue to allow Donna Brazille to mislead people, including Cooper Anderson.  She very clearly stated last night that Obama reaching 2025 would make him the nominee.  She is misleading people in so many ways that it is not even funny.  

    [ Parent ]
    cnn (5.00 / 9) (#97)
    by teachermom on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:26:20 AM EST
    I noticed last night that every time Anderson Cooper asked a leading question, like one beginning with "But.." (isn't it too late, does this have any implications for the GE) John King would reply, "Well, actually, it does matter. Look at these counties that all went for Hillary. The exit polls suggest she would appeal to these groups in the GE". I was glad to see reality finally acknowledged. I sense a slight modification in the tilt of the coverage.

    [ Parent ]
    Right interpretation, I hope, but I'm unsure (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by BoGardiner on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:41:54 AM EST
    At first I was excited by these comments by Dean.  But on second reading, I wonder if he what he was really trying to do was provide cover for superdelegates to go for Barack even if the popular vote goes to Hillary.

    But I want you all to talk me into Andrys' reading, because if that's correct, we should promote these comments widely.

    (I move we use his first name only, as everyone does hers.)

    [ Parent ]

    Dean ADDED that last sentence (5.00 / 6) (#175)
    by andrys on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:54:30 AM EST
    Hi, you asked to be convinced re Dean's words (his motivations, if different, don't take away from his instructions though)
    "I think the race is going to come down to the perception in the last six or eight races of who the best opponent for McCain will be. I do not think in the long run it will come down to the popular vote or anything else."

    "Anything else" would cover the delegate count too, giving everyone cover to avoid that as well.  Most important, he's saying here the emphasis, he thinks, will be on the last 6 or 8 races, and that includes West Virginia.  This would be the races after Obama was associated with Wright and 20 years listening to his speeches.  (Not to mention Rezko trial and possible repercussions and the current investigation of Jones, who gave Obama all those bills that others had worked on for years.)

      I think Dean probably has reason for some doubts.  My other theory is that it's known that Clinton BIG-money supporters have been withholding monies unless he seats Florida and Michigan fairly.

      I read that Obama is apparently giving the DNC money for use in the national campaign (which I think is quite questionable).  So he is torn, but he can't do without the historic big-money donors to the DNC.  So that may be a reason he has modified his wording about the superdelegate decision quite a bit, and he has already entertained a compromise on the Florida/Michigan seating (which was veto'd by Clinton as too favorable to Obama, who withdrew his name but would get much more than the Uncommitted vote under that scenario).

      As for my name, yes, I'm one of the few people on the Net idiotic enough to use my given name !  And I'm not male :-)  And am one of the few people who are neither white nor black!  Reporters seem to think we don't exist. :-)

      I decided not to post unless I could stand behind what I toss out.  I use my real-life nickname on a newspaper forum though but I link to my (largely inactive) blog even then.

    [ Parent ]

    "Politics is a herd mentality." (none / 0) (#231)
    by BoGardiner on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:29:41 AM EST
    That was Dean's last sentence in that same interview.  Hmm, you think he's onto something there?

    Andrys, I like your attitude and bravery!

    I think you make a convincing case.  Dean surely was speaking favorably of Hillary with his emphasis on these final races, what superdelegates may learn about these about electability, and their freedom to vote for the party's best interests.


    [ Parent ]

    That's Barack's first name, not Andrys (none / 0) (#112)
    by BoGardiner on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:43:22 AM EST
    (Although, Andrys, IF that's your real name :-), I'd be glad to call you by your first name too!)

    [ Parent ]
    Why? (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by BarnBabe on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:42:56 AM EST
    He is Obama and she is Hillary. She would be Clinton except to not confuse her with Bill. So it will always be President Bill and President Hillary.

    And besides, and not being disrespectful, every time I say Barrack, it comes into my mind like a parrot's call. With that in mind, Obama seems appropiate.

    [ Parent ]

    Funny you should mention parrots (5.00 / 5) (#201)
    by BoGardiner on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:15:29 AM EST
    My fellow "creative-class" boyfriend tried to teach his African Grey parrot to bounce up and down while singing, a la Queen,

    Boom, boom, boom
    Obama bites the dust

    She loves the boom-boom-boom and dancing to it.  But always leaves it at "Obama bites."

    Now she has creatively expanded it to "Obama-bama bites."  Without input from us.  Parrots have great rhythm!

    All of which I have to say is utterly hilarious.  A 30-ish lesbian couple was visiting last night, one white, one black, both Hillary supporters.  The bird was quite a hit.

    We're working on a YouTube posting.

    [ Parent ]

    I would (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by kenoshaMarge on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:26:36 AM EST
    not want to teach my parrots, two Blue and Gold Macaws, to say anything about Obama because that would guarantee that I would be hearing his name in our house til either they die or I do. (Actually given my age and theirs, they are only 16, I will probably die first and that concerns me greatly.)

    [ Parent ]
    That's why we're glad it's Obama-bama now (none / 0) (#246)
    by BoGardiner on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:36:55 AM EST
    and a lot less recognizable.

    But now that we know she can dance, we'll much more fun stuff.  She's also proving to be a natural at birdcalls (at which I'm rather expert), which she precedes with announcing "I'm an owl." (or oriole/dove/bobwhite etc).  This species will live to 90+ years, so yes we will outlive them and it's indeed a concern.

    [ Parent ]

    Way to go Hillary!! (5.00 / 17) (#16)
    by Grace on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:58:31 AM EST
    Hi y'all.  I don't think I'm a new poster here but I think I last posted here during the Plame thing when this board had a typekey posting system?  (And I had a different name?)    

    Anyway, I'm a HUGE Hillary supporter and I'd love to see her rebound and claim the nomination.

    Also, I've enjoyed reading the posts on this board.  Like others here, I'm not prepared to vote for the other Democratic candidate for the same reasons others have posted (experience, etc.).

    Here's to more Hillary successes!      

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry someone troll rated you on your... (5.00 / 5) (#68)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed May 14, 2008 at 06:25:58 AM EST
    ...introductory post. That was rude. I, on the other hand, appreciate your participation. ;-)

    [ Parent ]
    That troll-rater is a new troll (5.00 / 7) (#100)
    by Cream City on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:29:22 AM EST
    tonight, all of two posts not worth bandwidth.  LittleRockRita will be gone in no time.  Don't worry a bit about it, Grace, and welcome.

    [ Parent ]
    I've taken to sending handwritten (5.00 / 10) (#2)
    by lorelynn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:32:00 AM EST
    letters. Make the staff actually have to deal with what I'm saying, rather than glossing over it in an email. If Pelose had to step over a letter bag of 10k letters, that would make an impression.

    I will be sending those off tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion.

    Goodness, handwritten... (5.00 / 5) (#29)
    by weltec2 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:27:25 AM EST
    I don't know if I even remember how to do that. Well okay, now I feel challenged. For Hillary I'll do one to Nancy. Just one you understand. Then its back to the keyboard.

    [ Parent ]
    Handwritten letters are given more (5.00 / 3) (#195)
    by inclusiveheart on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:08:51 AM EST
    weight than any other form of communication.  There is a heirarchy and they are at the top.  They do take longer to get to the office though which can be a consideration depending on whether or not the issue is time sensitive - like if they are going to vote within a day or two on a particular bill - it is better to use faster forms of communication.

    [ Parent ]
    No snailmail to congress. (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by oldpro on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:37:04 AM EST
    Unless you don't care when it arrives...

    Since 9-11 and the anthrax-laced letters to congressional offices, all snailmail gets routed to a special post office facility and prescreened before delivery.

    Takes weeks.

    Weeks.

    I'm not kidding.

    Use FAX/email/phone.

    Period.

    [ Parent ]

    Hand Write the Letter (5.00 / 3) (#258)
    by creeper on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:47:35 AM EST
    and then fax it to your recipient.  You get the clout of a handwritten letter with the immediacy of an e-mail or phone call.

    Representatives love faxes.  A fax gives them a hard-copy they can tote around.  It gets far more attention than an e-mail or phone call, both of which are usually simply recorded in a yes/no column.

    [ Parent ]

    Letters (5.00 / 1) (#260)
    by befuddled on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:48:39 AM EST
    definitely carry a stronger message, you can't delete them with a keystroke. But the point about mailing to Washington is a good one. Mail to their homestate offices. In fact, mail to all their offices if you can stand the postage. I know in our legislature they actually sort the mail into pro and con (or they used to) and go by the size of the heap.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks Jeralyn and BTD (5.00 / 15) (#3)
    by shoephone on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:34:21 AM EST
    for working so hard the past 24 hours. You kept us informed and engaged up-to-the-minute during this exhilirating primary day.

    You both deserve to sleep in tomorrow (but we'd probably all be bummed if you did!)

    *

    Congrats! (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by rkcdvd on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:37:49 AM EST
       I want to congratulate Hillary on her victory.  She deserves all that she has worked so hard for! Conservatives are trembling in their knees.  We all give respect when respect is due.

    41 points (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:00:51 AM EST
    Yikes!  What a stomping.

    Signature Song
    [ Parent ]

    It's actually more (5.00 / 5) (#101)
    by frankly0 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:31:54 AM EST
    like a 48% loss for Obama, when you take into account the 7% Edwards vote.

    Which is pretty stunning for the "presumptive nominee".

    [ Parent ]

    Why sin't anyone talking about that? (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by Fabian on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:51:03 AM EST
    7% months after Edwards suspended his campaign is just amazing!

    If Obama outspent Clinton 2:1, then he and Clinton must have outspent Edwards by some astronomical amount - and yet, Edwards still picked up 7%.

    A protest, none-of-the-above vote?  Possibly.  But if we have a 7% protest vote, then isn't that something to be seriously concerned about?

    Is Edwards on any remaining ballots?

    [ Parent ]

    Talking Points (5.00 / 7) (#122)
    by creeper on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:00:22 AM EST
    From CBS News:
    Expecting a loss, the Obama campaign today rolled out a series of endorsements, the biggest of which came from former Democratic National Committee chair Roy Romer. The former Colorado governor, who had remained strictly on the sidelines throughout the primary campaigns, gave voice to something many party leaders have said in recent days. "The math is controlling," Romer told reporters. "This race I believe is over, Senator Obama has accumulated a lead in delegates chosen by primaries, caucuses and superdelegates that cannot be overcome."

    This is pathetic.  "The math" now trumps "the experience".  How did we get so many unthinking people in our party?

    They're not talking about Hillary's win at all, except as a lead-in to analyses of why it doesn't matter.

    I hate the media.

    [ Parent ]

    The Media has become Pravda West (5.00 / 11) (#138)
    by hookfan on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:22:36 AM EST
    Is it any wonder that the wise people of West Virginia ignore them?

    [ Parent ]
    Even The bitter Maureen Dowd Sees The (5.00 / 3) (#230)
    by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:29:24 AM EST
    writing on the wall for obama in her op-ed today.
    Hillary will keep pushing on and we will keep supporting her after this stunning win...KY will be more of the same for her.

    [ Parent ]
    If they were like me they weren't voting (5.00 / 4) (#205)
    by inclusiveheart on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:16:15 AM EST
    in protest as much as voting for the issues that Edwards put front and center - economic populism, healthcare and poverty being very important issues for a lot of people in that region.  Clinton has shown herself to be very progressive on those fronts, but Edwards was even moreso - Personally I take that vote to mean that people wanted to send a clear signal about how serious they are about those key issues to the two remaining candidates.

    [ Parent ]
    The MSM after already having declared the winner (5.00 / 8) (#5)
    by Serene1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:40:28 AM EST
    is now furiously trying to spin Hillary's victory as - does it really matter. Their anti Hillary theme and trying to force feed a winner down our throats is getting beyond ridiculous.

    As for Hillary, I am so excited about this win. Its massive and ideally should be a game changer for the SD's. Anyways I seriously feel she still has a shot at the nomination.

    Yes We Will Hillary! Yes We Will!


    fist think I read on the news server (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by karen for Clinton on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:46:40 AM EST
    on my home page just now:

    "Too little, too late?" at least THIS time they used a question mark when they said that.

    If 41% is too little and 3 months left before all the delegates are seated in Denver is too soon... then yeah.

    But all I am thinking is where there is a will there is a way, and HRC has both.

    The main thing the superdelegates have to think about is how the in the tank media has refused to vet this man. Many in the early states did not know much about him yet and many voted on HOPE.

    Those days of a campaign fueled by esoteric promises are over.  Solutions and experience rule.

    The only SD I've written to is Joe Andrew of IN, after he switched from Clinton to OB, and I did so due to his horrible remarks about Clinton and his lies of praise about Obama and the Iraq war.
    He came across as a young overly pompous sniper and I wanted to let him know I was not amused.


    [ Parent ]

    This is worse (5.00 / 5) (#47)
    by felizarte on Wed May 14, 2008 at 05:16:16 AM EST
    Mike Barnacle on Morning Joe remarked (snarkily perhaps) as part of his reply to Mika B. who remarked that the results in W. Virginia might indicate a problematic demographic group:

    we might as well call it the moron group . .  

    Perhaps someone can find a clip of that portion later. Then he went on to say that nothing in Hillary's speech indicates that she is quitting until ll:59am on Jan. 9.  What a mean man.

    [ Parent ]

    I had my coffee now! (5.00 / 9) (#52)
    by karen for Clinton on Wed May 14, 2008 at 05:27:30 AM EST
    This is absolutely no longer humorous.  How dare they let themselves spew hatred towards millions of Americans.

    I have heard them say a billion times how POLARIZING Hillary is.  Did it ever occur to them that The Precious is even more polarizing?

    I think that word has been way overused when it comes to her and not applied to him when it positively should be, equally if not moreso.

    [ Parent ]

    I believe the MSM (5.00 / 13) (#54)
    by felizarte on Wed May 14, 2008 at 05:42:14 AM EST
    those who have so aggressively promoted Obama are panicked by the results of W. Virginia.  It is after all a total blow-out.  With the defection of a Clinton pledged delegate to Obama, (although they are not saying anything about it) proves that what Hillary has said before, that pledged delegates could vote their minds at the convention, is true and according to the rules.  

    If Hillary shows great wins in the next primaries, the nomination will indeed be decided at the convention and SHE COULD BE THE NOMINEE! And they will all have egg on their faces.  I think that possibility absolutely terrifies them.

    [ Parent ]

    The MSM must also be bothered (5.00 / 8) (#55)
    by Serene1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 05:53:04 AM EST
    about the fact that inspite of pushing Obama= nominee, Hillary=looser, meme day in and day out the voters still didn't believe them. The MSM must be feeling mighty upset that they are not regarded as influencers or opinion makers anymore.

    [ Parent ]
    Tweety called No. Carolina 'a blowout' tonight (5.00 / 7) (#61)
    by andrys on Wed May 14, 2008 at 06:11:16 AM EST
    I wonder what he calls a 41-point margin as opposed to the 14-point one in North Carolina.

    And doesn't it become clearer to some of these dunderheads after seeing Obama's spreadsheet (which was pretty accurate for Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania but had predicted a 7-point WIN for Obama in Indiana and a 12-point loss in West Virginia) that something is seriously amiss ???

    (Do they want to win in November?)

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary won TN by 13 pts on Super Tues (5.00 / 4) (#109)
    by Josey on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:40:35 AM EST
    but the MSM didn't consider it a blowout.


    [ Parent ]
    Both Matthews and Dan Abrams (none / 0) (#282)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:06:05 AM EST
    tried to claim last night that they had NEVER called for her to quit the race.

    I heard a lead-in this morning that 2 more high and mighty's are calling for the race to end again this morning. They will be happy if they can just get the campaigning to end...they aren't liking the results of the election when one candidate just talks and the other provides solutions, positive changes for the country, and how committed she is to ALL the people.


    [ Parent ]

    Hillary Cut Into One Of Most Reliable Groups (5.00 / 1) (#237)
    by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:31:51 AM EST
    18 - 35 group and the more educated.  What does this tell him?

    [ Parent ]
    and to quote my fav. movie Sexy Beast (5.00 / 5) (#142)
    by angie on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:27:32 AM EST
    "when there is a will there is a way, and there is always a f---ing way."
    The SDs know how to read the polls, even though the media apparently does not. I'm going back on my "no msm" diet now, because nothing they say matters -- all she has to do is make it to the convention.

    [ Parent ]
    SDs- their own seats are affected by how (5.00 / 1) (#244)
    by andrys on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:36:43 AM EST
    ...by how the nominee does in November.

      This has to give some pause.

    [ Parent ]

    realclear politics said that in 1980 (none / 0) (#310)
    by thereyougo on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:34:28 AM EST
    Ted Kennedy  was over 700 behind Jimmy Carter,but still went to the convention.

    Hillary is behind  what, 100 + pledges, which are fluid and can move in any direction until  the convention.

    If  only Donna Brazile was an honest commentator and  stated it in  those  terms  perhaps  the  media
    and the rest would follow.

    Today I saw that Obama is wooing voters he needs that  gave Hillary last nights win, uh oh, too  little2 late, IMO.

    [ Parent ]

    I would (5.00 / 3) (#180)
    by kenoshaMarge on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:58:46 AM EST
    suggest that Obama wasn't the only one to take a thumping. I would say the the MSM and the pundits have taken a thumping too.

    By delivering this win to Hillary Clinton the voters of WV said loud and clear that they don't think it's over. They repudiated both Obama and the media. That's a two-fer I'll take any time any place!

    [ Parent ]

    West Virginia results (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by felizarte on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:54:11 AM EST
    and those of the next primaries should be good indicators as to how the Rev. Wright and Obama's 'bitter/cling remarks impact the later primaries.  If so, the previous wins in the other states might no longer hold true now or in November. It is also quite possible that the solid AA vote for Obama triggered racial attitudes among white voters. Today's  Washington Post has an article on sad racial incidents.

     

    Link: (none / 0) (#18)
    by felizarte on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:59:16 AM EST
    Wowee. Detroit City Council Not Kidding Around (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by shoephone on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:54:27 AM EST
    judging from how unflattering is the photo (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by kangeroo on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:54:59 AM EST
    of hillary on cnn's homepage, i'm guessing they must be annoyed and pissed as hell.

    I'm looking at a good one at CNN's home page (5.00 / 12) (#59)
    by BoGardiner on Wed May 14, 2008 at 06:04:53 AM EST
    Head shot from behind, she's looking back over her right shoulder, face utterly illuminated with a huge smile.  

    I've seen some bad ones, but I LOVE this one.

    Doesn't she just LOOK like you always imagined the first woman President OUGHT to look?

    OK, I'm a blonde, I'm biased.

    [ Parent ]

    gently but firmly (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by weltec2 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:56:31 AM EST
    I want my reps to support Hillary but IMHO I want to achieve this without coming off as belligerent or bullying, are we agreed? Okay, so the question is how to achieve this with a short (he or she has many e-mail to read) tightly reasoned argument. We can do this but we must be concise and polite. Anything less will simply excite our reader's delete button. It would also help to be original and attention getting so as not to arouse drowsiness. Let's go to work.

    You could also make a phone call (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by shoephone on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:58:33 AM EST
    Then you get to talk to a real person, and your rep's office people have to keep note of all phone calls.

    [ Parent ]
    gently but firmly (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by weltec2 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:12:47 AM EST
    Good. Even better. I suggest having your notes, statistics, information all right there with you by the phone when you do it so that you don't have to rummage around in your memory for them.

    [ Parent ]
    However ... (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed May 14, 2008 at 04:54:36 AM EST
    ... remember that persons on the congressional payroll as employed staff members are expressly prohibited by federal law from using government resources for political purposes, and being a recipient to such phone calls during posted congressional office hours can be and are construed by FEC officials in that manner. Therefore, please don't get angry if a staffer seeks to discourage your attempt at discussing the matter.

    Members of Congress do maintain active campaign committees, and thid being an election year, many of them will be opening campaign HQs in the next couple of months prior to the convention. You can get the requisite contact information from the FEC. I'd respectfully suggest that as a viable alternative to contacting congressional offices directly.

    [ Parent ]

    The office openings (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by BarnBabe on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:32:11 AM EST
    might be too late if they announce their vote and Obama takes it into his column to assume the win. Sure, they can change it at the convention, but the snowball effect might have taken place already. So the e-mail would be better and the call too. Even if they do not respond to you, they can see the increase in traffic pertaining to this matter. For those who gave already to BHO, then it might get a change of heart and for those uncommitted and wavering, it might steer them in the right direction.

    [ Parent ]
    When emailing (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by dotcommodity on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:15:37 AM EST
    I would direct al SD's to look at the electoral college vote picture for both against McCain based on assigning ev votes by polls in each state. They are going downhill for Obama, uphill for Clinton ever since PA.

    Currently Obama loses to McCain by more than 50! And thats before the next few days when polling will uptick for her after WV, currently she beats McCain by...well click that link, you go see...

    [ Parent ]

    I don't think the FEC (none / 0) (#181)
    by standingup on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:59:47 AM EST
    restricts staff from relaying communications from constituents.  This is not the same as a Congressional member directing their congressional staff to work on a campaign during hours for regular congressional business.  The people have to have a way to express their concerns and desires to their elected representatives.  

    [ Parent ]
    I don't believe the FEC (none / 0) (#185)
    by standingup on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:00:33 AM EST
    restricts staff from relaying communications from constituents.  This is not the same as a Congressional member directing their congressional staff to work on a campaign during hours for regular congressional business.  The people have to have a way to express their concerns and desires to their elected representatives.  

    [ Parent ]
    I used reverse technique on mine (none / 0) (#312)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:36:06 AM EST
    I wrote weeks ago at the beginning of the change of tide. My approach was one of how easy it would be for me to campaign for a representative who showed the strength to make decisions in the best interest of the people who may not be paying close attention to the candidates, voting party out of trust, or because they think anything would be better than what we have so they are voting the way their boss, neighbor, friend told them to. I told them I saw those judgment qualities when I voted for them.

    Last week a board full of commenters had sent emails to all the SDs and used threats to leave the party, vote for McCain, etc. They posted some of the replies they got from the SDs. Very angry SDs who said the threats would work against Hillary. Donna Brazile was even nasty to the nice letters because she had been bombarded with emails. The commenters were then furious with the SDs who pushed back.

    [ Parent ]

    Anyone looking for Childers ad (5.00 / 9) (#13)
    by Edgar08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:57:38 AM EST
    Where he describes Obama like this:

    "My family has heard the lies and attacks linking me to politicians I don't know and have never met."

    linkage

    brutal (5.00 / 5) (#15)
    by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:58:29 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Expect a lot of that (5.00 / 5) (#19)
    by Edgar08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:00:39 AM EST
    Going forward.


    [ Parent ]
    My goodness. (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by OrangeFur on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:34:17 AM EST
    This is the guy the DCCC spent over a million dollars supporting?

    [ Parent ]
    Well they say (5.00 / 10) (#32)
    by Edgar08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:35:51 AM EST
    The Obama Movement has lots of money.

    Probably gonna need it to create more ads saying "I never met the guy, OK???!!!!"


    [ Parent ]

    LittleRockRita (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by Edgar08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 04:51:18 AM EST
    Thanks!

    [ Parent ]
    Lil Rite sure is generous (5.00 / 4) (#48)
    by Fabian on Wed May 14, 2008 at 05:16:55 AM EST
    1s for everybody!

    [ Parent ]
    Just A Gift Of Love And Unity (5.00 / 6) (#90)
    by MO Blue on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:17:57 AM EST
    from an Obama supporter displaying her high level of maturity.

    [ Parent ]
    It's pretty amusing to see (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by frankly0 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:54:17 AM EST
    the Obama camp using cases like Childers' victory as a very positive sign for Obama.

    I mean, the Republicans try to use tenuous connections of a Democrat to Obama to undermine him or her, and the Democrat nonetheless wins, and this means that Obama's a great candidate for downticket Democrats?

    Obama doesn't do too much damage when he's in no relevant way connected to a Democratic candidate, and that turns into a positive sign?

    Delusional.

    [ Parent ]

    Didn't anyone tell them that he only (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by FlaDemFem on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:54:28 AM EST
    won because he ran ads completely disowning Obama? Yeah, that's a big plus in the Obama column..LOL

    [ Parent ]
    Nope (none / 0) (#224)
    by Step Beyond on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:27:08 AM EST
    I saw on one of the cable news stations last night they were talking about this. But they never mentioned that Childers ran ads disowning Obama. Instead they concluded that connecting Obama/Wright to Dems running for office doesn't have an effect.

    [ Parent ]
    but the Orange crowd believes (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by Josey on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:08:02 AM EST
    Childers beat "Wright" - therefore Wright won't be harmful to Obama in the general.


    [ Parent ]
    That's Gotta Be (5.00 / 6) (#168)
    by The Maven on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:52:05 AM EST
    one of the most delusional spins I've heard about from anyone in a long time.  Essentially, it all amounts to, "Obama won't destroy Democrats in downticket races, which is proof that he's the best!"  The implication, of course, being their belief that HillaryHate is so deeply ingrained in the very fabric of America that no Democratic House or Senate candidate could possibly survive even the most indirect association with her (i.e., sharing a ballot column).

    [ Parent ]
    Good suggestions Jeralyn (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:58:02 AM EST
    Hopefully the superdelegates will get the message.

    Actually, I wonder how many superdelegates read this blog?  I would imagine there are quite a few that lurk here because it is one of the best places for level-headed analysis of the primaries.

    Let's just hope the undecided SDs are going to do some level-headed analysis themselves! Look at all the maps, take away the media spin, and really ask yourselves how in the world is Obama going to win this thing in November?  He can't.

    I like your last paragraph (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by BarnBabe on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:47:02 AM EST
    It says it all in  a few sentences and would make a good e-mail too. I copied it down. Short but sweet. And if you want to add your vague little mention that if people stay home it will have a coattail effect for all Democrats then that would be good too.

    There are new voters, but they might be a one day wonder  compared to the long time Democratic base.

    [ Parent ]

    I believe (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by kenoshaMarge on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:01:21 AM EST
    that many of those "new" voters are women that haven't participated in the process before but were energized to do so by having a woman candidate, one they respect and admire, to vote for. Not all new voters support Obama by a long shot. IMHO :)

    [ Parent ]
    Read this..it's amazing.. (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by FlaDemFem on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:41:17 AM EST
    An interview in Atlantic Monthly where the interviewer, Jeffrey Goldberg, says..
    Among other things, he told me that he learned the art of moral anguish from Jews

    And then Obama goes on to explain more childhood lessons..
    I had a camp counselor when I was in sixth grade who was Jewish-American but who had spent time in Israel, and during the course of this two-week camp he shared with me the idea of returning to a homeland and what that meant for people who had suffered from the Holocaust, and he talked about the idea of preserving a culture when a people had been uprooted with the view of eventually returning home. There was something so powerful and compelling for me, maybe because I was a kid who never entirely felt like he was rooted. That was part of my upbringing, to be traveling and always having a sense of values and culture but wanting a place. So that is my first memory of thinking about Israel.

    So being an Isreali Holocaust survivor is the same as being a child who moved around a lot?? Whaaa??

    It's all about Obama, again. Read the article. It's  one of the most "cover all bases" interviews I have ever read. Again, he is trying to please everyone. Well, until he says this..

    JG: Do you think that Israel is a drag on America's reputation overseas?

    BO: No, no, no. But what I think is that this constant wound, that this constant sore, does infect all of our foreign policy.

    Get your syrup out, it's waffle time.

    [ Parent ]

    Of course when you ... (5.00 / 2) (#216)
    by Robot Porter on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:21:06 AM EST
    play the outrage card like it's the only one in the deck, it's gonna get played back on you upon occasion.

    And calling Israel (even the I/P conflict) an open sore is a tad insensitive. And I think he can be called on it.

    [ Parent ]

    Boehner has been all over that (none / 0) (#177)
    by CCinNC on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:56:16 AM EST
    like a cheap suit.  Obama was referring to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, not Israel.  And of course he wasn't comparing himself to a Holocaust survivor.

    [ Parent ]
    MoDo's latest spin (5.00 / 7) (#20)
    by Serene1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:12:43 AM EST
    after having almost exhausted her vocabulary of abuses that she could safely hurl at Hillary and after imploring Obama to punish Hillary she now has gone ahead to blame the voters who cast votes for Hillary as racist.

    Obama supporters especially the MSM defence of Obama to me sounds a lot like
    The play was a success
    but the audience was a failure.

    Call me insensitive (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by Grace on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:20:03 AM EST
    But I almost don't want Obama to win simply because I'm tired of hearing "racist" being thrown around so freely.  

    Obama supporters say they are in the driver's seat, so they are chauffeurs?  If they aren't in the driver's seat, are they in the back of the bus?  

    Every stupid little thing is becoming a racist issue of some sort or another.  I'm so TIRED of it!    

    [ Parent ]

    Me Too! (5.00 / 4) (#31)
    by SueBonnetSue on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:35:25 AM EST
    I cannot bear the thought of Obama being the candidate and the MSM talking about RACE, EVERY SINGLE DAY, from now until November.  

    Why is not racist for 93% of Blacks to vote for Obama, but it racist if 70% of whites vote for Clinton?  Why are her voters a bunch of racists but his are not?  This is making me ill.  I am not a racist and I don't want to have to continue to defend that, just because I don't want Obama for President.  

    [ Parent ]

    Dear Most Darling Rita (5.00 / 6) (#51)
    by Fabian on Wed May 14, 2008 at 05:22:02 AM EST
    but, if Hillary became the nominee, it would not be racist for black voters to support her over McCain by essentially the same percentage----which she would need to have any chance in a general election.

    Then it wouldn't be "racist", but "genderist".  I think you should check the warranty on your logic and language boards.  They may have expired.

    [ Parent ]

    Say what? (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Lisa on Wed May 14, 2008 at 06:22:06 AM EST
    Wow, how's that for an absurd twist of what she said. Let's take it slowly.

    The Obama backers ARE NOT saying that since blacks vote for Obama 8 or 9 to 1 in the primaries, that's racist.

    The Obama backers ARE saying that since whites voted for Hillary by a smaller margin in the primaries, that's racist.

    That's an inconsistency.  Got it?
     

    [ Parent ]

    beyond that, it's a set-up for losing in Nov. (5.00 / 5) (#91)
    by kempis on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:18:14 AM EST
    Since January, when Jesse Jackson Jr threw down the first race card the day after the NH primary, I've argued that Obama can benefit from injecting race because he'll solidify his hold on the AA vote, but he risks setting off a white backlash.

    I thought surely Obama's folks would knock-off the "the Clintons are racists!" stuff after Super Tuesday, but they didn't. Add Rev. Wright to the mix, and Obama stops transcending race and his appeal shrinks. Worse, a lot of white people DO start taking it personally when they see people like the Clintons vilified as racists.

    We don't talk about it (for fear of being branded racists) but far too many of us have seen the R word thrown around too loosely, causing enormous grief, and cheapening the value of the word--which is dangerous considering that racism does still exist. Too many wolf criers, however, have made it  easy for some to deny it when it does surface.

    But bless 'em, the Obama camp just can't seem to help themselves. We're going to hear racist, racist, racist all the way to the general election and instead of the Democratic party being polarized the entire frickin' nation will be. And Obama will NOT be the winner when the dust settles if that happens.

    So, as I've said since January, the Obama campaign needs to stay away from race unless there is an obvious example of racism, at which point calling it out will NOT be controversial. But playing the race card frequently will only result in Obama's bleeding white support that will cancel out any further black support he can squeeze out  Keep it up and the election night results for Obama will look something like West Virginia's.

    [ Parent ]

    the media has assisted Obama (5.00 / 4) (#118)
    by Josey on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:54:04 AM EST
    in falsely accusing the Clintons of racism.
    Even Hillary's remarks about "white working class" not voting for Obama has been distorted intentionally by ObamaInc to cast the Clintons as racists.
    Obamamites ignore Obama called the "white working class" racists, clinging to their guns and religion.
    The working class includes all races - and Hillary was honest when she specified "white".
    Obama is getting more than 90% of the Black vote, which includes the black working class.


    [ Parent ]
    I agree with you (5.00 / 2) (#217)
    by g8grl on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:22:35 AM EST
    If the Clintons, who have worked hard for equality, can be called racists...who can't that label be thrown at.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't think she said that at all (none / 0) (#50)
    by felizarte on Wed May 14, 2008 at 05:19:50 AM EST
    f I am to understand your position correctly, you believe that it is racist for black voters to support Obama in such large numbers, but, if Hillary became the nominee, it would not be racist for black voters to support her over McCain by essentially the same percentage----which she would need to have any chance in a general election.


    [ Parent ]
    It's an issue (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by Edgar08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:46:42 AM EST
    I've been holding off on another spousal anecdote.

    My wife is in HR.  Once a year someone complains about their review and it's all about race.

    A lot of corporations just don't want to deal with it, and they file away the review and bump up the increase to the max, and hope it goes away.

    Now.  I know that totally sounds like something Rush Limbaugh would say.  I hate the fact that I hear it.  I sit there and I tell my wife "Honey, that's totally something Rush Limbaugh would say!"

    And she shrugs her shoulders.

    Crux of the matter is this.  

    On balance, being perceived as racist isn't worth the increase of productivity.  At the end of the day, they say, I'll take the hit on productivity as long as no one will ever call me racist.

    This is how I now view the superdelegates, right now.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, I think that is exactly (none / 0) (#164)
    by masslib on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:49:24 AM EST
    what is going on.  It's quite pathetic.

    [ Parent ]
    Reverse Racism? (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by Grace on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:56:57 AM EST
    I'm going to become a proponent of Reverse Racism.  One drop of white blood and you are white.  

    Obama?  He's white.  

    :)  

    Next question please.  

    [ Parent ]

    I like that one! (none / 0) (#76)
    by Molly Pitcher on Wed May 14, 2008 at 06:33:38 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    it is frightening (5.00 / 4) (#253)
    by dotcommodity on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:41:18 AM EST
    no Democrat wants to be considered a racist.

    Heres the only color that matters to me: GREEN!

     He is not a Green candidate, for all his talk of global warming, his solutions are the sort of diluted solutions you get from Republicans or complete pushovers like Bingaman, whose climaticide prevention bill was almost as bad as Bush's business as usual.
    (Obama surrogates: like Bingaman do not push for real eco solutions: Kennedy is against Wind power, Richardsons NM depends on Nuke funding, Daschle is an ethanol lobbyist, etc)

    Clinton is on the environment committee and gets SD support from eco movers and shakers like these SDs:

    New Jersey's Gov. Corzine Seeks Wind Farm Off East Coast
    May 9 (Bloomberg) -- New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine wants his state to be the first in the U.S. Northeast to build an electricity-generating wind farm off the Atlantic coast.

    SF Mayor Gavin NewsomeA while back (early 2006) Newsom announced that the City will explore the possibility of generating power from the tidal flow under the Golden Gate Bridge and launched a $150,000 feasibility study to examine the tidal energy project, which could generate up to 35 megawatts of power, according to the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) and the San Francisco Public Utilities Commission.

    (About the media/opposition party Clinton Derangement Syndrome, Newsome said "They say dogs don't bark at parked cars." The mayor concluded, "People don't get upset about people who aren't about change, they get upset about people who are about change.")

    Rep. Jay Inslee Introduces Feed-In Tariff Legislation
    Based on the feed-in tariff policy that has enabled Germany to achieve 55% of the world's installed solar capacity and to provide 14% of its electricity supply from renewable sources, Inslee's Clean Energy Buy-Back Act would guarantee U.S. producers of clean energy connection to the grid and predetermined rates from utilities for their power.

    It is the first ever proposal in Congress that would implement what Inslee is calling a performance-based incentive (PBI) policy, also known as a feed-in tariff, which has been proven to be an effective means of increasing adoption of renewable-energy technologies in Germany, Spain, France and other countries.

    Thats just a few. If you look at his support in congress generally its the ethanol, 'clean coal' and pronuclear, the not-Green voters in congress who support Mr Bipartisan.

    The clean energy congress members who support the one who can put out a clean energy plan that will actually achieve its goals.

    The problem is that Obama writes his plan with all the Green goals all the Democrats support, so a casual reader would think he is a Green candidate.

    The clean energy plans details tell a different story. And anyone with the experience to read them, like Inslee etc, can see the problem right away. Obama does not have the eco knowledge to select advisors well enough to achieve the stated goals.

    [ Parent ]

    NASCARDad exLuvR sees light: MoDo no longer racist (none / 0) (#117)
    by Ellie on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:53:03 AM EST
    I wonder when MoDo's conversion happened.

    Does this mean we won't be seeing Girlfrien down at the lanes anymore? She was supposed to anchor our team and settle her outstanding shots tab. (And it truly is outstanding!)  

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary's Victory Celebration (5.00 / 8) (#22)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:13:21 AM EST
    I watched Hillary's speech on CNN, through to the end. Then I switched over to FOX and they showed the blow-out celebration that immediately followed the end of the speech: people whooping cheering, jumping around, and TONS of red, white, and blue confetti. It looked like she'd won the GE. Lots of energy and momentum.

    CNN had cut away and hadn't shown that part during their live coverage. It was VERY odd. The FOX coverage looked like a different, and better, event. CNN deliberately robbed their viewers of that uplifting display. Oh well...

    Tom Petty's "I Won't Back Down" (5.00 / 10) (#36)
    by jfung79 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:55:55 AM EST
    I notice they played that as her speech ended.  This was a brilliant song for the campaign to play that really encapsulates the "won't quit fighting for you" theme.  Could it become a permanent Hillary theme song for the rest of the campaign?  I hope so.  

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, YEAH (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by BoGardiner on Wed May 14, 2008 at 05:58:22 AM EST
    I must have listened to "I Won't Back Down" 500 times while staffing a table outside Jim Webb's campaign office where I live. It was his theme song and oddly I never tired of it.  I'm here to tell you it's VERY energizing.  That and enjoying the prospect of kicking George Allen's teeth down his soft, whiny throat with my cowboy boot.

    (Disclaimer: The violent threat is Allen's coinage, not mine).

    [ Parent ]

    Superdelegate information at Sourcewatch... (5.00 / 6) (#23)
    by jerry on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:15:56 AM EST
    I know Obama crowd (5.00 / 7) (#27)
    by Serene1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:24:48 AM EST
    is trying to spin this victory as doesn't matter and Obama hardly campaigned there. But the voter turnout was Huge. If the voters actually believed that the campaign was over as Obama crowd and MSM have been telling us, wouldn't then a majority of voters sensibly decide to stay at home or better still vote for the supposed nominee.

    I sincerely hope the SD's are watching this win. There is a reason why they are the SD's. And if they are truly interested in a democratic win this year, then they should be taking these results very seriously..

    I guess I'm part of that "Obama crowd" (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by barryluda on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:09:52 AM EST
    and I'm not spinning this.  Clinton won by a ton and the Supers have to take notice as she just keeps getting stronger.  It's clearly not over, and Clinton has more of a shot today than she did at the beginning of the week.  Still a long shot, but she should stay in until it's over and the MI and FL votes are counted.  Whoever wins at this point will have earned it (although my guess is that neither the "Obama crowd" nor the "Clinton crowd" would admit that for a while).

    [ Parent ]
    Present Conventional Wisdom notwithstanding (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by felizarte on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:50:25 AM EST
    If Hillary overtakes and exceeds the popular vote of Barack (without Michigan but including Florida) she has a pretty good chance of convincing the super delegates to give her their vote at the convention and she will be the nominee.  I think that the votes in the primaries after the exposure of Rev. Wright and Obama's bitter/cling remarks, are better indicators of general electability because they are votes cast by people after more information about Obama.

    The kind of denial (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by Serene1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:57:51 AM EST
    going on in HuffPo is to be read to be believed. I can't believe I actually once thought HuffPo was a true liberal voice.
    Headline article - On other news Hillary wins WV - Does it really matter?
    Another article - Even racists don't vote for Hillary - and how the author arrived at this enlightening inference is b