Obama Seeks KY Evangelical Vote

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:25:31 PM EST
Tags: Barack Obama (all tags)

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Check out the flyer Barack Obama is sending out in Kentucky to reach evangelicals. His campaign explains why they are sending it out. In it, he touts his accepting Jesus Christ into his life. You can view it here. Look at the top and the bottom.

The flyer is titled: Faith. Hope. Change. It talks about how Obama accepted Jesus Christ into his life. It contains a quote from Obama that says "my faith teaches me that I can sit in church and pray all I want, but I won't be fulfilling God's will unless I go out and do the Lord's work."

The Obama campaign explanation:

"These fliers are part of the Obama campaign's sincere effort to communicate the values of Senator Obama's own Christian faith and the hope that people of all faiths and moral backgrounds will come together to address the needs of the 'least of these' in our nation and in our world. We're using them (the flyers) primarily at American Values forums and other campaign events. We are very careful to not campaign within houses of worship and respect both the philosophical boundaries between the church and the campaign, and the very real Internal Revenue Service restrictions related to campaigns and houses of worship."

The Christian News Network approves:

So how will the Obama campaign talk about Biblical faith and values while at the same time having to defend itself against being liberal on abortion, gay rights, etc? He will need to be careful that it all doesn't look so hypocritical and fake. That would damage the brand he's tried to create.

Of course let's remember here: pro-life Evangelicals and the ultra right will scream hypocricy but Obama is playing to a larger crowd.

He's looking at mainline denominations, conservative, religious Reagan Democrats, Independent Catholics and yes, some Independent/Moderate Born-Again Christian voters. In a close Election, winning at the margins could make all the difference in the world.

What's he going to tell these evangelicals if he is elected and appoints a Supreme Court Justice likely to uphold Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to choice? That is what he's going to do, right?

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Obama Seeks KY Evangelical Vote | 266 comments (266 topical)

Did you ever think there would be a (5.00 / 5) (#1)
by masslib on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:28:52 PM EST

day when this sort of religious flyer would come from a Dem? I hope Hill sends one out. She was a lay minister. They can compete on who is more devout.

I really do not (5.00 / 15) (#5)
by americanincanada on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:30:24 PM EST

want to see this kind of stuff from my party. I know it's important but so is the seperation of church and state. This blatant couring of the far right scares the hell out of me.

We are not electing a preacher in chief. If that's what he wants to be he should be in church, not the whitehouse.

[ Parent ]

who is holier? (5.00 / 10) (#18)
by jpete on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:41:07 PM EST

Nice addition to politics in America. Gee, thanks, Obama.

I say next time we try to find a politically astute nun. Could resolve a lot of issues.

[ Parent ]

That just made me smile (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by andgarden on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:43:58 PM EST

Thanks.

[ Parent ]

: U R Welcome n/t (none / 0) (#240)
by jpete on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:06:37 AM EST

[ Parent ]

A nun would actually be a liberal (5.00 / 1) (#247)
by cmugirl on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:43:23 AM EST

As a Catholic, this kind of thing disturbs me, as we are taught to show our faith through how we live and not by glossy flyers.

And, as to my subject line - a nun, following the teachings of the Catholic Church [the spiritual works of mercy (Convert the sinner,Instruct the ignorant, Counsel the doubtful, Comfort the sorrowful, Bear wrongs patiently, Forgive injuries, Pray for the living and the dead) and the corporal works of mercy (Feed the hungry, Give drink to the thirsty, Clothe the naked, Shelter the homeless, Visit the sick, Visit those in prison, Bury the dead) would be much more of a liberal any day than Obama.

[ Parent ]

Hmmm... (5.00 / 5) (#44)
by Leisa on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:52:21 PM EST

repackaging and re-branding. Will the marketing work?..

Let's see... wear flag pin (?), use an already pocketed Edwards, and sell your Christianity (is that for real?)

Will Kentuckians buy it? Not the ones I know...

Market, sell, sell, sell... who really is the poll driven candidate??

All of their smoke is gone and mirrors are reflecting back on them... transparency has arrived.

I must confess that I do want a Dem in the White House in 2009, but I can not see Obama pulling it off. His bad press has not even started yet and he still can not close the deal on a candidate that started with high negatives. He ran because he was convinced that those polls would help him defeat her. He has encouraged sexist and disrespectful treatment of her by remaining silent when those behaviors happen right before his eyes. Bad move Obama.

[ Parent ]

It might of worked if it was a picture of his (5.00 / 5) (#52)
by bjorn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:55:06 PM EST

family at church, as long as it wasn't Rev wright's church...but isn't religion, if you are going to "sell" it all about family? And community? Yet we just get a picture of him at some weird pulpit.

[ Parent ]

: You are spot on! (5.00 / 1) (#77)
by Leisa on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:07:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]
: Not the point (5.00 / 1) (#248)
by pluege on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:50:23 AM EST

you correct regarding what faith and religion are supposed to be, but this is political theater about evangelicals... and what Obama is showing is what they're used to seeing.
(note, its really skanky politics if you ask me - very republicanesque)

[ Parent ]

It's Not The re-Branding (5.00 / 3) (#138)
by talex on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:34:33 PM EST

that bothers me...

It's the fact that we have already had one yo-yo in the WH that God talks to and look where that led us.

[ Parent ]

obama Has Acted Like He Is Running For (5.00 / 5) (#45)
by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:52:27 PM EST

Preacher-In-Chief from the get-go. That has been his schtick...hope, inspiration, follow me to change, blah, blah, blah.

[ Parent ]

: Donnie McClurkin wasn't ambitious (5.00 / 1) (#212)
by Fabian on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:20:22 AM EST

enough.
The ultimate bully pulpit! The biggest congregation!
And when the federal government passes the collection plate, it's not just a good idea, it's The Law!
The United-Mega Church of America, bay-bee!

[ Parent ]

preacher or President? (5.00 / 7) (#60)
by noholib on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:58:14 PM EST

Yes. If I hear another word about a candidate's "faith" being offered as a credential for high political office, I will simply puke. Sorry to be so graphic. I know what I seek in religion and what I seek in politics. And believe me, they are totally different things.

[ Parent ]

I agree (5.00 / 6) (#73)
by angie on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:03:39 PM EST

I'm a Christian myself, but this kind of religious trolling is the main thing that turns me off from the GOP. Religion is a personal thing and has no business in politics. None. Nil. Nada. Most of our founding fathers were religious men, but they knew that, which is why they wrote the First Amendment. I was po'd with Huckabee's "cross/bookcase" & the fact that he even did a "Christmas message." I honestly can't believe people are defending this from Obama (well, actually I can, they defended Rev. Wright too).

[ Parent ]

His attitude towards Hillary (5.00 / 5) (#85)
by felizarte on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:11:30 PM EST

somehow does not reflect his professed Christianity. He has been disrespectful, unsportmanlike at the very least, and far from being kind. I cannot say the words to describe how I feel about this.

[ Parent ]

This actually sounds about right (5.00 / 3) (#91)
by Lil on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:14:10 PM EST

for the ultra evangelical movement. I think they are disrespectful of lots of folks who don't fit into their belief system.

[ Parent ]

My Take Is That obama Has NEVER Acted (5.00 / 7) (#92)
by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:15:06 PM EST

as a christian should act, according to the Bible.
He lacks compassion, is willing to denigrate those who don't align with him, screwed over his poor constituents to advance Rezko's cause, lies and the list goes on. You can fool some of the people....

[ Parent ]

: ditto (5.00 / 1) (#96)
by bjorn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:16:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
: I don't care if he is a Christian (5.00 / 10) (#99)
by dissenter on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:18:55 PM EST

I would have settled for decent human being with some class, principles, decency and truthfulness.

[ Parent ]

As Ghandi said (5.00 / 2) (#94)
by angie on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:16:14 PM EST

"I like your Jesus, but I do not like your Christians."

[ Parent ]

We Should Be Able To Spot A Christian By (5.00 / 6) (#117)
by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:27:10 PM EST

their actions. If that is the criteria, obama and michelle have failed miserably. My interest in picking a candidate, as everyone's should be, is who is the best qualified, not who is more christian-like.

[ Parent ]

: Right On! (5.00 / 1) (#193)
by felizarte on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:53:15 AM EST

After All, Christ whom he touts had some choice words for the Pharisees who liked to show off their religion; and he also said, "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." In other words leave religion out of govt/politics.
I agree with another poster who said that religion should be a personal thing. It is supposed to be an individual moral/ethical compass. I hate it when people preach at others. It is tantamount to saying, "my way is right; yours is not."
But we know that in Biblical times, lightning was known to strike at times when only God knows why, when, whom, and how!

[ Parent ]

I Hear Ya (5.00 / 4) (#204)
by mabelle55 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:41:58 AM EST

He used this trick pony once before in the South, but it never got much media attention. What else is new? I thought, at that time, it was pandering of the worst kind and the flyer reminded me of a Republican mailing - cross in the background, Obama in front, all thoughtful. I didn't know then whether to laugh or puke.

But this is just too much. Way OT. Obama is desperate, which is why I think Edwards pulled out this endorsement today. And BTW: I think they have known about this for weeks - since at least the Compassion Forum.

If you go back and review the discussion of poverty at the forum, Obama lays out Edwards' anti-poverty program almost to the letter: reduce it by half in 10 years. So, he's had Edwards' endorsement in his pocket.

It's been one rough day for Hillary supporters. All over the blogs now, again, we're called delusional, accused of being Republicans because we won't hup-to for Obama, sneered and laughed-at by our "brother" and "sister" Democrats. Although today I changed my voter registration to Independent because I have had it with the Democratic Party at this point.

I'm an old hag who's been around the block far too many times, and carried water for far too many loser Dems, for me to really give a c*** anymore about carrying the Dems water - especially when the leadership is so convinced that Obama is the savior of our politics.

Oh, and I also gave another $200 to Clinton's campaign. What the hell. It's only money...and she needs it right now more than I do.

[ Parent ]

: Wow, you are good people (5.00 / 2) (#222)
by stefystef on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:47:42 AM EST

and your post is right on the point.
The more I learn about Obama, the more confident I am that I will be staying home in November.

[ Parent ]

But - but - but -- ... (5.00 / 3) (#198)
by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:56:55 AM EST

... He is the light of the world, and His light shines before men!

True faith fills you with humility, by instilling within you the thought that you can always be a better person than you currently are. Blind faith, on the other hand, offers you a false sense of your own moral superiority, in the mistaken notion that you're already a better person than everyone else who isn't like you.

As such, this brochure is either a reflection of Obama's sin of pride, or else he's channeling the late John Belushi's Chicago bluesman character Jake Blues, who was similarly "on a mission from God."

[ Parent ]

This is opening up Obama for more attacks (5.00 / 4) (#19)
by Exeter on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:41:15 PM EST

on his church. According to Obama's church website, they practice Black Liberation Theology and follow the guidelines written by Dr. James Cone, who has said that Malcolm X was "not far wrong" when he called the white man "the devil," and "if God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him."

This is a BIG problem for Obama.

[ Parent ]

yep (5.00 / 2) (#187)
by bigbay on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:21:04 AM EST

remind people of Rev. Wright

also, the folks writing this flier don't really understand evangelicals. Bush and Huckabee understood the dog whistles and never did blatant schlock like this flier, which turns people off.

[ Parent ]

And imagine the sloganeering (5.00 / 3) (#194)
by felizarte on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:01:42 AM EST

just ever so deceptively appropriating the beloved passage in Paul's first letter to the Corinthians 13:13

And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.

For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!

This is despicable! And I hope that people will see through this.

[ Parent ]

You Crack Me Up! (5.00 / 2) (#206)
by mabelle55 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:47:52 AM EST

I love your line, "Faith, hope and change; but the greatest of these is change." When do you think we get to see him walk on water? Or multiply the loaves and fishes? Oh, wait. He's already done that with his Internet ATM thing.

I wonder which of these is true of Obama's latest epiphany: "My Karma ran over my Dogma."

In the meantime, "Beam me up, Scotty; there are no signs of intelligent life here."

[ Parent ]

: Ferget that! Water into wine! (5.00 / 1) (#214)
by Fabian on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:23:14 AM EST

That's where it's at.
Or maybe water into Light Sweet Crude.

[ Parent ]
: He Does More Than Walk On Water (5.00 / 3) (#244)
by MO Blue on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:19:48 AM EST

He has the ability to move the Great Lakes to Oregon.

[ Parent ]
: Here's where you get to see him on water. (none / 0) (#252)
by Upstart Crow on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:22:22 AM EST

http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=918

[ Parent ]

I feel compelled (3.00 / 1) (#199)
by Iris on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:02:08 AM EST

to point out that James Cone is a decent human being and a scholar, but you're right in that this would be a problem if used by Republican front groups in the GE, because many would not be able to relate.

I would hate to see people like James Cone (and Malcom X, for that matter) dragged through the mud and have death threats being thrown at them from youtube crazies. And as much as some people dislike this or that statement made by Jeremiah Wright, we have to admit to ourselves that the way he was used by the GOP & the media was pretty disgusting and I can only imagine what Trinity church has been going through. It would be painful to watch.

Not sure if I have a point here other than to remind everyone that our 'elite' media obviously has very arbitrary and idiosyncratic rules for talking about race and it ends up unfairly tarring people of all colors. Think of the way Hillary has been unfairly smeared as a "racist"; James Cone's is no racist either, and his theology is a no less legitimate than anyone else's, and as Democrats we need to remember that.

Here's a good interview he did with Bill Moyers.

[ Parent ]

If Dr. Cone was in vaccuum, (5.00 / 1) (#233)
by Exeter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:45:31 AM EST

but when you add in frequent collaboration and promotion of NOI and Louis Farrakhan at Obama's church, the statements by Wright, Obama's friendship with William Ayers and Tony Rezko, you paint a picture of a general election trainwreck waiting to happen.

[ Parent ]

i'm sure the GOP (none / 0) (#243)
by Iris on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:12:55 AM EST

would wait until after Obama gets the nomination to act on the Ayers story or any number of other easy targets -- that is, were he to get the nomination. John McCain will keep his distance & condemn such negativity.

Maybe we should remind the press to 'vet' Obama more before it's too late? If the campaign doesn't think it's going to be a problem, then it should be no problem to go over it now, right? Of course, the Obamasphere would blame Hillary for Obama's problems somehow, but wouldn't it be better for it to come out now as opposed to after the convention?

[ Parent ]

: If I were Obama I would pro-actively (none / 0) (#246)
by Exeter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:34:56 AM EST

Either distance myself from the church or have some sort of meeting where x,y and z assurances were given that nothing like giving Farrakhan a lifetime achievement award will happen again in the future. You're right the GOP is licking their chops right now.

[ Parent ]

Did he sell his soul? (none / 0) (#49)
by Leisa on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:54:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: Hmmm he was at Tchula Junction... (none / 0) (#70)
by Exeter on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:02:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Yeah great. (5.00 / 1) (#239)
by inclusiveheart on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:01:56 AM EST

The Republicans push for a theocracy and the Dems end up delivering it - yeah that would be great. Ugh.

[ Parent ]

Ummm... (5.00 / 5) (#3)
by kredwyn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:29:34 PM EST

errr...

Wow...just wow.

let's just say it, George W Bush (5.00 / 3) (#12)
by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:36:55 PM EST

look in the mirror

[ Parent ]

it's worse than that (5.00 / 5) (#66)
by boredmpa on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:01:24 PM EST

In my opinion, he's the GWB of the democratic party supported by the democratic version of Ron Paul fans.

Both groups are clueless about the working class, extremely aggressive, well off, and always think their guy is right, under unfair attack, and not treated fairly by the media. The ron paul fans even had an interview posted on slashdot (the tech site) and didn't even realize he was against regulating the internet (and thus for ISP control).

Even though I don't consider Obama anything more than centrist, I've never laughed so hard as the time i saw someone end a post with Obama/Paul 08 on the nytimes.

[ Parent ]

pretty much (5.00 / 3) (#68)
by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:02:04 PM EST

I wish you were kidding, but it's almost true.

[ Parent ]

Interesting (5.00 / 2) (#172)
by cal1942 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:22:21 AM EST

I've also seen references to Obama/Paul.

It represents a part of his support base, people who are confused by politics. The Unity/Non-partisan schtick appeals to those with negligible understanding of politics, civics, etc.

So now he attempts to pander to Evangelicals in Kentucky. I personally see his profession of faith as simply another part of his blatant opportunism demonstrated by his choice of church.

I know that despite what some elitists believe Evangelicals are not stupid and believe they'll see through just one more example of Obama the PR creation.

[ Parent ]

: I think (5.00 / 3) (#173)
by dissenter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:27:00 AM EST

They are scared sh$tless of the guy. I know I am and I have two college degrees and I am agnostic. I think this dude thinks he is some kind of savior and I have had enough of a president with a messiah complex.

[ Parent ]
: Yes (5.00 / 2) (#201)
by Iris on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:09:13 AM EST

It represents a part of his support base, people who are confused by politics. The Unity/Non-partisan schtick appeals to those with negligible understanding of politics, civics, etc.
I've noticed this too.

[ Parent ]
: Ooops! (5.00 / 1) (#235)
by samanthasmom on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:48:54 AM EST

When I saw Obama/Paul 08, I thought the person meant Paul, the apostle guy.

[ Parent ]

Great Characterization (5.00 / 6) (#208)
by mabelle55 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:52:45 AM EST

I actually have a far more crass view: he's a Republican in Democratic drag. And really, you know things are royally screwed-up when so-called progressive Democrats are as bad as right-wing conservatives in swift-boating a true Democrat - Hillary Clinton.

Isn't that what's going on? Or am I just another delusional old white woman racist who's too old to be involved in politics and should just shut up and go spend time with my 11 cats? (Somebody actually said this to me).

[ Parent ]

: Republican or (none / 0) (#249)
by Iris on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:52:18 AM EST

somethimg close enough to be just as bad. As someone else said, you haven't stepped through the looking glass. I think your voice is needed more than ever!

[ Parent ]

It is risky (5.00 / 6) (#4)
by felizarte on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:30:14 PM EST

especially for the GE because that automatically brings back the Rev. Wright issue since by Obama's own account, it was Rev. Wright who helped him to decide to be a Christian. The Republicans will have a time with this.

It reminds me of South Carolina and McClurkin. nt (5.00 / 2) (#9)
by Joelarama on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:33:12 PM EST

Me too (none / 0) (#58)
by just victory on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:57:19 PM EST

Reminds me of McClurkin, too. And I wonder, can I really trust that he is going to totally repeal the Defense Of Marriage Act as he has promised?

[ Parent ]

: I don't believe it for a second. (5.00 / 3) (#126)
by Joelarama on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:29:52 PM EST

His modus on this will be not to advocate for it before Congress, and then claim he'd vote for it if it got to him.
I expect the same tactic on any real overhaul of healthcare.

[ Parent ]
: Repeal it? (none / 0) (#265)
by cawaltz on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:52:33 AM EST

A federal law never passed so how does one go about repealing it?

[ Parent ]

I just want to remind/warn him (5.00 / 3) (#48)
by felizarte on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:53:55 PM EST

EXODUS 20:07
T

hou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

I would be most apprehensive if I were him.

[ Parent ]

Heh, did his flyers mentioned.... (5.00 / 5) (#6)
by cosbo on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:31:23 PM EST

his Pastor of 20 years? For evidence of his faith...just curious

I'll bet not... (5.00 / 3) (#7)
by kredwyn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:31:57 PM EST

It does on the back, kind of (5.00 / 2) (#88)
by angie on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:12:55 PM EST

there is a little blip about his being a community organizer for the steel mill thing (misrepresentation, btw) and how he got to know members of the community who invited him to attend church, he went to the church, found Jesus, etc. It doesn't mention the name of the church or Wright, but I think it is enough to remind voters. Dumb move, imo.

[ Parent ]

: I thought the copy on the back was misleading -- (none / 0) (#259)
by jawbone on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:01:49 AM EST

Can you explain more about that?
Thanks.

[ Parent ]

Jerelyn OT, but did you see this: (5.00 / 5) (#8)
by Exeter on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:32:07 PM EST

Rasmussen: 29% of Dems and HALF of Clinton supporters want Clinton to run as an independent.

in a 3 way split (5.00 / 3) (#15)
by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:39:09 PM EST

I think an independent run by Clinton has a chance with a plurality of voters.

If there ever was a year when it could work...

[ Parent ]

: Independent Candidate (5.00 / 1) (#163)
by JavaCityPal on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:05:32 AM EST

Ron Paul is already on ballots in many states. Can there be two Independents?
Hillary is such a strong party loyalist, I doubt she would do that.
But, when it comes to "the math" and both candidates going to the convention short of the number needed, the total number of delegates on each side really won't be known until after the first vote.

[ Parent ]

Rasmussen is doing "teh math" (5.00 / 2) (#61)
by Cream City on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:58:40 PM EST

about as well as Dem leaders who can't add the numbers to see the problems with Obama

Try to follow "teh math" in this from that link to the Rasmussen release: "As for Barack Obama, 25% Democrats say he should drop out. That's down from 22% following the Pennsylvania Primary, 26% earlier in April and unchanged from 22% in March."

[ Parent ]

: up is down (5.00 / 1) (#133)
by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:32:40 PM EST

there's the proof!

[ Parent ]

Hey! (5.00 / 1) (#118)
by NWHiker on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:27:23 PM EST

Clinton/Barr 2008!

Shudder. Not that it would ever happen, for more than obvious reasons...

Clinton would never do it. She'll take one for the party, eventually, and help Obama.

Which isn't to say I don't wish she would, you know?

[ Parent ]

: Don't you get it? (none / 0) (#131)
by Upstart Crow on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:31:46 PM EST

They won't let her win. Even if she wins the popular vote. They'll find some forgotten Democratic candidate from the ancient past in the bushes, they'll do whatever they have to do to the SDs, they'll buy the DNC.
She's not going to win. They won't let her.

[ Parent ]

No and stop (none / 0) (#127)
by Jeralyn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:29:55 PM EST

Hillary is the most loyal of Democrats. She wouldn't consider a third party run in a zillion years and she'd have no support for one from her base. And please don't promote it here.

[ Parent ]

: Sorry... (none / 0) (#141)
by NWHiker on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:37:54 PM EST

I was being sarcastic, I did state that she'd never do it, my opening line wasn't meant to be serious.

[ Parent ]

Clinton would never do it. nt (none / 0) (#129)
by Joelarama on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:30:45 PM EST

I am sorry, it may not be fair but I did not (5.00 / 3) (#14)
by bjorn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:38:04 PM EST

buy the whole "christian" and "Jesus" thing from Obama. When he talked about it - it just did not seem a true part of his core self, not organic. His embrace was cold and distant. Now this flyer, which looks like something out of a generic church. I am not buying this, it just doesn't feel genuine. Maybe I am not being fair, but all we have to go by is the vibe when he talks about it and it does not ring true to me. I don't think evangelicals are going to buy this either. Hillary's faith seems so rooted in her childhood and in her pragmatic politics...it is understated by powerful because it seems organic, plus who is showing faith this last month, Clinton, not Obama.

Does He Mention The Great Lakes In That Flyer? (5.00 / 4) (#33)
by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:45:16 PM EST

great lakes? (none / 0) (#35)
by bjorn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:47:48 PM EST

bjorn....was referencing the flyer he sent to OR (5.00 / 3) (#55)
by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:56:31 PM EST

that he apparently reused from another state's flyer wherein he the great lakes...and we all know the great lakes are not in OR. Sorry, just being funny...

[ Parent ]

: should be wherein he referenced the great lakes.. (none / 0) (#59)
by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:57:27 PM EST

:(

[ Parent ]
: heh! (none / 0) (#62)
by bjorn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:58:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Didn't you see the cut & paste job (5.00 / 4) (#56)
by angie on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:56:38 PM EST

on the fliers he sent out to Oregon? It was obvious redo of one he sent out in PA, but his "staff" (I'm sure it was his staff, as Obama is never responsible for anything that goes wrong) didn't proof read it very well, as in the clean water section it read how he was going to protect the waters of Oregon like Lake Erie. (The same flier also cited the x number of veterans in PA). And people in Oregon are still supporting him & we are the low information voters!

[ Parent ]

: Wait! (5.00 / 2) (#74)
by Leisa on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:06:11 PM EST

He runs a flawless campaign...

[ Parent ]

I agree -- Obama is an intellectual (5.00 / 2) (#37)
by Exeter on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:48:51 PM EST

I would imagine in his true heart of hearts that he is like most intellectuals and an agnostic. That is why I find his participation in Wright's crazy church so disturbing -- he knew Wright was wrong on so many levels, but stayed in the church for political reasons.

[ Parent ]

I am not so sure; I think (5.00 / 5) (#78)
by Andy08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:07:48 PM EST

Michelle especially and he himself do believe certain things coming out of Wrighty's black liberation theology. That's what Michelle's thesis was about also.

[ Parent ]

: If he actually did believe it (none / 0) (#139)
by gyrfalcon on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:34:40 PM EST

I would be more likely to support him. As far as I can tell, he believes in nothing but Obama.

[ Parent ]

"Opportunist" is a better description (5.00 / 4) (#122)
by angie on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:28:11 PM EST

: opportunistic - all in the eye of the beholder (5.00 / 2) (#159)
by noholib on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:59:55 PM EST

I'm reminded of different reactions to the NYTimes article this Sunday which told how Senator Obama rose in Chicago politics, always reaching out beyond his previous base, sometimes jettisoning that previous base as he moved on. One friend said to me, "Isn't it a great article, showing how flexible he is?" I replied, "No, it shows me how much of an opportunist he is."

[ Parent ]

Obama is not an intellectual (5.00 / 3) (#157)
by themomcat on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:56:37 PM EST

He is trying to appear as one. He is an arrogant, effete snob who is trying to use his past at the same time he is trying to deny it. He is a player and he is playing both ends against the middle. He is a fraud at best and a disaster for the Democratic party on November.
/ "By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes." Macbeth, Wm. Shakespeare
[ Parent ]

i agree (none / 0) (#40)
by bjorn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:49:48 PM EST

Read 'Dreams of my Father' (none / 0) (#250)
by andrys on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:08:49 AM EST

and you will understand the draw the church and Wright had for him. The basic philosophy and worldview matched his searching at that time (and likely after, since it's not much different from progressive thought, just more narrow).

- Andrys

[ Parent ]

Of course it isn't genuine (5.00 / 5) (#43)
by andgarden on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:52:08 PM EST

He's just as poll-tested and image-consulted as every politician who isn't Thad Cochran or Ted Kennedy.

[ Parent ]

McCain is different (5.00 / 3) (#64)
by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:00:15 PM EST

Your post reminded me that McCain has taken several positions that were extremely bad performers in polls. That's why he is my plan B.

I'm less tepid!

[ Parent ]

Your choice (none / 0) (#101)
by andgarden on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:19:03 PM EST

I think you've been taken in by his "maverick" image.

[ Parent ]

: nah I've researched it (5.00 / 1) (#108)
by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:21:36 PM EST

extensively
Give me more credit than that ;) I am a high information voter!

[ Parent ]
: and his website is cool (5.00 / 1) (#144)
by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:38:45 PM EST

I forgot to mention that. It reminds me of McGyver.
I am having fun with this. JOIN US... JOIN US...

[ Parent ]

Perhaps Obama (5.00 / 5) (#54)
by Grace on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:56:19 PM EST

isn't the organic brand? Perhaps he's the generic brand?

Am I the only one turned off by this whole "brand" thing? Can I vote for Nabisco in this next election?

[ Parent ]

holding back on making Kucinich joke.... (5.00 / 1) (#109)
by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:22:39 PM EST

anybody know where I'd be going with this?

[ Parent ]

: oops wait, that's Keebler (5.00 / 2) (#112)
by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:23:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]

brand (5.00 / 1) (#161)
by noholib on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:03:04 AM EST

Yes, you're funny about Nabisco. Which brand are people voting for when they simply follow the corporate-owned media? Actually, "branding" is a horrible metaphor. Think of cattle, think of worse.

[ Parent ]

I'm Voting For Kellogg's! (5.00 / 1) (#210)
by mabelle55 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:15:42 AM EST

So, why not Nabisco? Heck, why not GE, GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Heinz...oops! Heinz is an Obama brand now.

[ Parent ]

: LOL (none / 0) (#228)
by BrandingIron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:58:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]

LOL (none / 0) (#57)
by bjorn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:57:11 PM EST

It's another grotesque pander (none / 0) (#135)
by gyrfalcon on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:32:58 PM EST

no more, no less. He's racking up the most incredible strong of blatant panders I've ever seen from a candidate, never mind a supposed Democrat.

[ Parent ]

This Guy (5.00 / 14) (#16)
by dissenter on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:39:57 PM EST

never ceases to amaze me. Seriously, I have to go with the person that said "WoW". That is amazing.

It won't work though. I've spent a lot of time lately around evangelicals. There are a ton in the army.

Even the moderate ones (ie; that care about the environment, want to stop putting so much emphasis on abortion etc) are not going to support Obama. In fact, I think this will have a blow back effect.

Evangelicals aren't just religious, they tend to also be very patriotic. He can NEVER explain away Rev Wright. Further, they are very attached to their local cultures. By this I mean, Southerners, Midwesterners, etc. He obliterated an chance of connecting with his guns and bitter remarks. If he thinks these people are going to vote for him simply because they go to church he is further insulting them. They pay taxes too. They have to pay for college for their kids. They know people with serious illnesses or they are sick themselves.

Pretty much 100% of the evangelicals I know will vote for McCain. I grant you, a lot of these people are attached to the army in some way and McCain is a natural tie but cultural and economic issues will trump religion for most of them.

Plus the are conservative and words like transcendent and transformational sound radical to them.

BTW (5.00 / 3) (#17)
by andgarden on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:40:26 PM EST

Does the expression on his face on the front freak you out or what? It says to me "I know something you don't know."

: he knows God's will (5.00 / 3) (#24)
by diplomatic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:43:02 PM EST

the ultimate in predictions

[ Parent ]
: there is not much humility in (5.00 / 2) (#32)
by bjorn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:44:49 PM EST

Obama's way...but to be fair that is probably true of most politicians...smugness seems to be more a part of his true nature.

[ Parent ]
: He belongs to a crazy cult? (none / 0) (#31)
by Exeter on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:44:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]

No. (5.00 / 8) (#22)
by nell on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:42:49 PM EST

This makes me really uncomfortable. I do not like it when Republicans embrace religion in this fashion and make it a part of their politics and I like it even less when Democrats do this. No.

And even beyond my personal misgivings, isn't this politically stupid? I hear "Barack Obama is a Christian and goes to church," and I hear, "God d*** America" and see images of pulpit humping...that is my honest first thought because I have seen the clips on tv so many times. I would presume many in Kentucky would have a similar reaction...

PA 'rubes' (5.00 / 3) (#23)
by jedimom on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:42:55 PM EST

does this mean Obama 'clings' to his religion too?

Didn't he learn his faith (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by myiq2xu on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:44:09 PM EST

from Rev. Wright?

: Yes (5.00 / 2) (#28)
by nell on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:44:35 PM EST

in his book, Obama writes that Wright brought him to Christianity.

[ Parent ]

left (5.00 / 2) (#29)
by jedimom on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:44:36 PM EST

I remember many posts on the blogs about Huckabee's Christmas TV ad with the not so subliminal bookshelves

people were outraged

Obama has an actual altar/cross behind him and appears deified and nary a word will be spoken I suspect..

: He's Done This Before... (5.00 / 1) (#211)
by mabelle55 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:19:07 AM EST

in another Southern state. Tennessee, maybe? With the cross in back, Obama in front, thoughtful. It scared the bejeebers out of me. I want no part of a candidate - Dem or Republican - that does this. It just shows me that he has no internal spiritual compass, that he's as blatantly patronizing and pandering as any of the far right crowd.

[ Parent ]

WV a set up? (5.00 / 2) (#50)
by waldenpond on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:54:28 PM EST

Jen on the other post wrote...

an O! supporter that posts at Clark's blog sez they're going all out in KY. Money, ads, volunteers, offices, brochures, surrogates galore, etc. Said they were barely even asked to phone bank in WV, knew they'd lose, and set up the scenario so that as soon as it was over, they changed the narrative w/ JE's endorsement.

So they sacrificed WV knowing the would bring out Edwards and go full force in KY for a come back? Do they think they are going to improve on their projected loss of 14 or are they trying to say they made a come back from 30 pts?

Best I can figure is they are trying to make Clinton stay in KY so she can't spend time in OR because it makes no sense to play this game with WV and KY as they aren't ever going to win KY.

question (5.00 / 15) (#71)
by Josey on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:03:20 PM EST

How many men does it take to beat ONE woman?

All the big names, all the money, the media completely behind him AND HE STILL CAN'T DO IT!

LOL

[ Parent ]

: They still haven't beaten her!! (5.00 / 2) (#128)
by DeborahNC on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:30:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
: whose gonna save dems from themselves? (5.00 / 1) (#254)
by pluege on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:37:40 AM EST

unfortunately for all of us, the tone-deaf dem "leadership" is sure making it look like the he-man women haters club [re: The Little Rascals for those too young] ganging up.
With more than 55% of the electorate female, I find dem "strategy" [cough] to have much in common with the intelligence of a rock.
Interesting how HRC has substantially won over her unnatural constituency, i.e., men, but Obama has a problem with a big chunk of his, namely working class whites. But the head-in-the-sand dem leadership would rather circle the wagons around the only man left standing and create topics-which-must-never-be-spoken meme's than see and deal with the obvious.

[ Parent ]

Do they really think that (5.00 / 2) (#169)
by FlaDemFem on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:21:23 AM EST

the people of KY are that stupid?? Do they think they won't see that they are being played?? How much contempt does Obama have for the average American that he thinks we won't notice this crap is going on?? He must really think we are stupid. Too bad for him he is wrong. I think this will just give Hillary more traction in KY.

The thing is, KY is a state full of horsemen. They know how to read the past performance charts. They aren't going to buy Obama as qualified to be President. They also know that women can do the job as well as a man can. Look on the backstretch of any track. You will see women doing all the same jobs as the men, with equal pay. They won't be fooled by Obama, and they will appreciate Hillary's work ethic and refusal to quit. They will see her as a Thoroughbred, with the same heart and stamina. And they do love Thoroughbreds in KY, they really do.

[ Parent ]

: Well, I Don't Know... (5.00 / 1) (#213)
by mabelle55 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:21:26 AM EST

The American public got played pretty well by Shrub: compassionate conservative, a uniter. But it's hard to imagine that KY would go for this crap, considering it's just a stone's throw from WV.

[ Parent ]

She's due in OR (none / 0) (#120)
by kredwyn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:28:07 PM EST

day after tomorrow.

[ Parent ]

They went pretty hard in WV too... (none / 0) (#124)
by OrangeFur on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:28:33 PM EST

They had more offices, more TV time, more money, etc. The only they didn't have was the candidate.

That's how voters tell if you really care or not. The real test will be whether Obama goes there himself.

[ Parent ]

I guess this is ok with the SF money people (5.00 / 5) (#63)
by Stellaaa on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:59:27 PM EST

anything to win. How low can you go.

Excellent question (5.00 / 5) (#65)
by Andy08 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:01:20 PM EST

Obama Seeks KY Evangelical Vote

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