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More West Virginia And Other Matters

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:11:44 PM EST
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Tell us what you know about today's West Virginia race or anything. I'll add anything I find out in this post.

I saw a Fox flash that 70% of WV voters said Hillary Clinton shares their values. 45% say Obama shares their values.

63% say Clinton is honest. 47% say Obama is honest. [More...]

61% says Clinton more likely to beat McCain. 37% say Obama is more likely to beat McCain.

Uh oh, 51% say Obama shares the views of Jeremiah Wright.

63% say suspending the gas tax is a good idea.

Sirota on Fox. Pretty funny.Doing really well actually. Nice job David. Disclosure, David is a friend of mine.

This is an Open Thread.

Comments now closed.

< WV Prediction Thread | Obama To Speak In MO, BEFORE The Polls Close >

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    More West Virginia And Other Matters | 206 comments (206 topical)
    FOX news asks Clinton supporter if her (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:17:16 PM EST
    continued campaigning and effort to win the nomination is hurting Obama. Ya' gotta love the media.
    blah blah blah (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Muzza on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:19:10 PM EST
    I don't watch of these networks anymore - CNN, MSNBC, Fox - they are all pathetic. Obama's control over the media & their intoxication with him is sickening.

    Hillary has to depend on us!

    [ Parent ]

    Correct answer: (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by MarkL on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:20:20 PM EST
    "I sure as heck hope so!"

    [ Parent ]
    Better correct answer (none / 0) (#147)
    by ineedalife on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:07:18 PM EST
    Hillary is not his Momma!! Stop whining and start campaigning Obama!

    [ Parent ]
    he is (none / 0) (#191)
    by CanadianDem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:32:51 PM EST
    actually. For the GE.

    [ Parent ]
    5 things to watch for in WVa (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:19:33 PM EST
    Article from Politico...

    1. How goes Mason County? In 1988 and 2000 -- the most recent elections with no incumbent president on the ballot -- the county of less than 30,000 residents on the Ohio border was within 5 percentage points of the actual statewide primary results.

    2. The Edwards protest vote. John Edwards, the former North Carolina senator who ended his Democratic presidential campaign in January, remains on the ballot in West Virginia.

    3. Turnout in the southern coal fields, the northern panhandle and the Ohio River counties.

    4.) Television coverage.

    5) Fundraising bounce.

    And as always... ignore the commentors at the article.

    sorry I posted this above, I had not read down far (none / 0) (#35)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:29:51 PM EST
    enough, thanks for this info!

    [ Parent ]
    All this stuff (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by coolit on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:21:04 PM EST
    that I see from Obama supporters about how not voting for him is cutting off your nose to spite your face completely ignores human nature.

    They have been arrogant, cocky and he has been hypocritical and messianic.  I don't support him out of disgust.   I have been completely and utterly turned off.  It stinks of some bad stuff.

    Human nature tells you that when someone makes you feel like that, you will resent them for a long time and certainly not vote for them for president of your country.

    It's kinda like how Bush is surprised when all our allies refuse to support us in Iraq after his audacity in the run up.  Even though their lack of support is causing a tragedy in that part of the world, they wont support it.

    Does that help you Obama supporters?

    The attitude reeks of (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Democratic Cat on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:27:58 PM EST
    "Lie back and think of England."

    Not all Obama supporters, by any stretch. But enough.

    [ Parent ]

    haha (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by coolit on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:32:16 PM EST
    just looked up what that meant on wikipedia.  i've never heard of that, but see what you mean.

    [ Parent ]
    lol (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by Salo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:43:40 PM EST
    English couldn't have been that bad at it.  Or there would be no English.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah. (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:34:21 PM EST
    I figured my diary would get ignored, and I was right. :P TL is the only place I even frequent anymore since everywhere else seems to have lost its sanity.

    [ Parent ]
    I just saw your diary. You did good Dalton. (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Teresa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:47:16 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    "Pimp" it to us (none / 0) (#106)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:50:37 PM EST
    and we'll definitely read it.

    I'll read it after work ;-).

    Thanks for taking the time to write it.

    [ Parent ]

    Read It (none / 0) (#155)
    by flashman on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:10:33 PM EST
    think I might have actually commented on it.  I have to go back and make sure.  We don't have many at TL who reads the "off the main" diaries.  Too bad about that.

    [ Parent ]
    I would need 2 noses :) (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by nycstray on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:35:17 PM EST
    Voting Obama OR McCain would go against my  beliefs (on issues and other things)  {grin}

    [ Parent ]
    I'm still waiting for the "reaching out" (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by kmblue on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:36:40 PM EST
    by Obama and his supporters to begin.
    It's a good thing I'm not holding my breath,
    because I have a feeling I'll be waiting a long time.

    We have some very nice Obama supporters posting on TL, please consider yourselves excepted from this.
    (looking at you Dalton, among others)

    [ Parent ]

    Maybe they cannot afford to yet (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:39:28 PM EST
    even though they keep saying it is over.  We might see it pick up after June 3rd, that is if it still looks like he will be the one!

    [ Parent ]
    right now i'd call it St Funity. (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by Salo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:49:24 PM EST
    The patron saint of stfu and hold hands.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm guessing you read 'electa' (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:43:12 PM EST
    today?

    She referred to posters as you sure come across as bigots.
    Threatening...And, it will be you who gives him the GE should he win. Views WV as It's a blatant racist state...

    Calls Obama the champion and phenominal then gives a shout out to "GET OVER IT".  

    and then the coup de grace....Won't you join hands with us to let healing begin?

    It does make you laugh and shake your head.  It's times like these you wish you could reach through the screen and give a person a good flick on the nose or a smack upside the head.  :)

    [ Parent ]

    stfu-unity! (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Salo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:46:44 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    peon, racist, asses... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by coolit on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:50:21 PM EST
    like us are ruining america.  so let's change our ways and support Obama!!!!

    [ Parent ]
    If Hillary had one delegate... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:49:42 PM EST
    ...for each time I've heard an Obama supporter telling someone to "get over it; she lost," she'd be 200 delegates ahead of him.

    [ Parent ]
    Really... (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by magisterludi on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:53:28 PM EST
    I keep flashing on the scene in "Moonstruck" when Cher slaps a lovestruck Nicholas Cage, telling him "Snap out of it!".

    [ Parent ]
    I'm assuming Electa is just the (none / 0) (#89)
    by tree on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:46:36 PM EST
    latest sock puppet of ObamaMama.

    [ Parent ]
    Yea, I saw Electa (none / 0) (#154)
    by kmblue on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:09:53 PM EST
    She and I are in love!

    [ Parent ]
    I'm looking at adjacent PA counties (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by andgarden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:23:27 PM EST
    you can see them here.

    I think my prediction of a 35-40 pt win is well within range. Anything less than 65/35 would shock me.

    Politico also said to watch (5.00 / 0) (#32)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:28:50 PM EST
    one particular county returns tonight. I think it was Mason county?  Apparently, the state always seems to follow the trend in that one county and the county polls show Clinton 68% and Obama 16%...of course that is not the actual vote, but it supports your hypothesis regarding the PA counties.

    [ Parent ]
    bjorn...if that was true, it would support that 50 (none / 0) (#175)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:20:01 PM EST
    point win we were talking about for HIllary!!

    [ Parent ]
    keep your fingers crossed! (none / 0) (#193)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:34:04 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I live in Westmoreland county in western PA..... (none / 0) (#117)
    by Mrwirez on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:55:27 PM EST
    those four counties you are talking about, Washington,Greene, Fayette, Bedford..   Is how the whole state of WV is... NO Kidding.

    Obama running around saying "He's the man" might backfire. One could only hope, I want to win.

    [ Parent ]

    Truman Chafin (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Muzza on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:24:55 PM EST
    http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=10472

    Hillary was endorsed by WV Senate Majority Leader, Truman Chafin.

    This exit poll could be brutal (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by andgarden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:29:15 PM EST
    Now here's a question: will it overstate or understate Hillary's actually win?

    And another observation: the fact that the networks are paying for an exit poll indicates to me that they will be covering the results. This will not be good for Obama.

    Get Out of My Head! (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by BDB on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:01:39 PM EST
    I was just thinking that.

    You know the only thing the so-called liberal media loves almost as much as bashing Clinton is bashing the democratic frontrunner as out-of-touch with real Americans.  Now that they think Clinton is done, I presume they will resume their second favorite meme.  

    [ Parent ]

    Exit poll is giving some great information (none / 0) (#199)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:38:45 PM EST
    Obama not having done campaigning in WVA has Hillary getting only 36% stating untrustworthy vs. Obama getting 51% on that question.

    I've always said his negative campaigning was a big contributor to the numbers she gets on that question! Every politician should expect at least 30% on that question, but her unfavorables were way out of alignment with who she is.


    [ Parent ]

    Exit Polls show 2/3 said Economy was #1 (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by nycstray on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:31:37 PM EST
    Saw this while I was at the bank on CNN. So she has a huge win in WV and they say the economy is their overwhelming issue  :)

    I'm wondering why (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by kmblue on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:31:41 PM EST
    an equal number of Obama and Clinton supporters
    said gender!  Whattup with that!

    Obama says "It's about my church..." (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by Exeter on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:33:25 PM EST
    ...not my pastor." Guess what, as bad Wright has been, his church has many more potential pitfalls for Obama. Not only does the church regularly promote and collaborate with Farrakhan and NOI, but there is this gem:  According to Obama's church website, the "Black Liberation Theology" practiced by the church is guided by Dr. James Cone and his book, Black Power and Black Theology. According to Salon, Cone has said:

    Malcolm X was "not far wrong" when he called the white man "the devil," and "if God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him."

     

    Why are some folks still (none / 0) (#58)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:37:38 PM EST
    worried about what was said in the 60s by Malcolm X?  I was born in 58, but if I was older I might have agreed with some of what Malcolm said given the context of the country at the time.  It is better to focus on what is being said now, and that is why Rev Wright is troublesome.  Like Obama said, he seems to still be living in the 60s but the country has come a long way since then.

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly... (none / 0) (#91)
    by Exeter on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:46:52 PM EST
    and the church that Wright created and Obama still attends is absurdly behind the times.

    [ Parent ]
    Agree (none / 0) (#104)
    by squeaky on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:50:33 PM EST
    And so is the situation AA's in america, waaaay behind the times, imo.

    [ Parent ]
    Agree... (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by madamab on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:54:16 PM EST
    and so is the situation of women of all colors in this country.

    [ Parent ]
    Yup (none / 0) (#116)
    by squeaky on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:55:13 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    But not so for those (none / 0) (#144)
    by tree on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:07:04 PM EST
    like Obama and Wright. Not to say that racism can't still affect them or that it doesn't in subtle ways, but there are now blacks who have entered the upper classes and they are not "waaaay behind the times". There's now a class divide among blacks and only the poorer classes have been left behind, as it is with the poorer classes among every other group.

    [ Parent ]
    yes (none / 0) (#153)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:09:26 PM EST
    much of the race problems that remain with are really class problems and not race problems at all.

    [ Parent ]
    Just read an article in the Seattle Gay News (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by shoephone on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:37:25 PM EST
    that posited Obama lost a lot of votes in PA because of his refusal to interview with any of the gay press there and because Hillary and Chelsea went out of their way to court the gay vote.

    Tell me again how Hillary is supposed to be the bigoted one...

    Hillary has a OR LGBT Steering Committee (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by nycstray on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:40:50 PM EST
    She announced on May 9th

     

    [ Parent ]

    Chelsea (5.00 / 0) (#172)
    by janarchy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:17:17 PM EST
    went on a Gay pub crawl in a number of states to court the Gay vote. There are great photos of her at several of the stops including Philly (where she was with Ed Rendell and a happy lesbian Hillary supporter grabbed Chelsea's butt) and in Oregon where there's a great photo of Chelsea surrounded by cross-dressed bear-types. She looks like she's having the time of her life.

    And yet Obama wouldn't even been seen with Gavin Newsome of San Francisco. Sad, sad, sad.

    [ Parent ]

    That Was Poor (none / 0) (#184)
    by squeaky on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:26:27 PM EST
    But it seems to me that is had little to do with being anti gay but much to do with not supporting gay marriage which was what Gavin Newsom's was most know for in 2004. Both Hillary and Obama are against gay marriage and way behind the curve on that one, imo.

    [ Parent ]
    I would agree (none / 0) (#202)
    by janarchy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:48:40 PM EST
    except for the McClurkin thing and the fact that Obama hasn't exactly been seen in the company of any GLBT spokesmen. I don't count Andrew Sullivan, Dan Savage or Rachel Maddow as speaking for the community.

    [ Parent ]
    Bugger (none / 0) (#203)
    by janarchy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:49:15 PM EST
    spokesPEOPLE obviously. I shake my fist at the lack of an edit button!

    [ Parent ]
    Yes (none / 0) (#206)
    by squeaky on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:57:38 PM EST
    The McClurkin thing was a bummer, and a mistake, imo. He made a political calculation, he is a pol. Bottom line though is his votes, though, and I do not see him as any less pro gay than Hillary, now or in the future.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama: Anti-Gay (none / 0) (#80)
    by Muzza on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:44:01 PM EST
    Obama is too embaressed to be seen with the gay community. Why so I ask? Why so careful? And why hang out with homophobes like McClurkin?

    [ Parent ]
    I think he has pandered to anti-gay voters (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by shoephone on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:03:14 PM EST
    in the worst way. The McClurkin episode really set me off. Fear of being associated... refusing to be photographed with Gavin Newsome, refusing to interview with PA's gay media, even his lame comment in a debate about how he and Biden didn't get HIV-tested together. It's stupid on his part. He assumes that gays will support him in the GE no matter what. It's never good to take any part of your party's base for granted and yet Obama's campaign has made pissing off parts of the base (blue collar folks, women, seniors, gays) into a badge of honor.

    His supporters denigrating an entire state (WV) and implying all white voters there are racist seems a very odd strategy to securing a win in November.

    Axelrod's and Brazile's comments about not needing so many historic Democratic voters is going to have a long-term ripple effect on the party and on future elections.

    [ Parent ]

    LGBT (none / 0) (#126)
    by VicAjax on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:59:37 PM EST

    here's Obama's interview with The Advocate:

    LINK

    if you listened to his MLK speech at Ebenezer, he directly chided AA's for their intolerance of gays.  and he's said that he wants DADT repealed and civil unions for same sex couples with full rights.

    [ Parent ]

    His record on gay issues (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by madamab on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:04:06 PM EST
    does not compare to HRC's. She has been a very outspoken supporter for quite some time.

    And the Donnie McClurkin thing was icky.

    [ Parent ]

    Identical Record (none / 0) (#169)
    by squeaky on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:16:22 PM EST
    According to the Congressional scorecard by the Human Rights Campaign both Hillary and Obama scored 89.

    and OT footnote both Kennedy and Kerry scored 100.

    [ Parent ]

    The length of her commitment (none / 0) (#180)
    by madamab on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:25:04 PM EST
    and his cannot be compared.

    [ Parent ]
    Irrelevant (none / 0) (#198)
    by squeaky on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:38:32 PM EST
    IMO. It is true that Hillary is 14 years older than Obama if that is what you mean.  It all boils down to how they vote, and both are in either in the dark ages regarding gay marriage, or are afraid that supporting it would make them unelectable. Bad either way, imo.

    If Hillary has been supporting gay rights for an incomparable length of time unlike Obama, than she should be even more ashamed of herself for not supporting gay marriage.

    [ Parent ]

    He talks out of both sides (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by shoephone on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:06:34 PM EST
    of his mouth. Having McClurkin headline for him in South Carolina sent a much bigger message than his later comments at Ebenezer. He's a hypocrite. And, at least according to the Seattle Gay News, he proved it again in PA.

    [ Parent ]
    the guy (none / 0) (#158)
    by VicAjax on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:12:03 PM EST
    who wrote that op-ed was a Hillary supporter who had given $1000 to her campaign.

    [ Parent ]
    I appreciate his MLK day remarks (5.00 / 0) (#163)
    by kempis on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:13:45 PM EST
    But it's amazing how much of a bad taste I still have over the McClurkin matter. I had actually sent him a donation the week before the McClurkin gospel tour hit the fan. I was not happy.

    I appreciate all the remarks he has made on behalf of gay rights, but I don't trust him. I don't trust him because it seems to me that there's a real pattern here: the guy will pander to anyone. There doesn't seem to be a "core" there....It sort of goes along with his "present" votes in the IL senate.


    [ Parent ]

    He just copied those positions from her. (5.00 / 0) (#176)
    by Joan in VA on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:21:10 PM EST
    He has no LGBT issues on his website. Same as nothing for women.

    [ Parent ]
    actually (none / 0) (#179)
    by VicAjax on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:24:26 PM EST
    he's got a whole section dedicated to LGBT:

    pride.barackobama.com

    [ Parent ]

    Guess he should put it in the pull- (none / 0) (#190)
    by Joan in VA on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:31:30 PM EST
    down issues menu like the rest. How would you know that address? Does he have women's issues at some other address also?

    [ Parent ]
    heh (none / 0) (#192)
    by VicAjax on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:33:47 PM EST
    everything's always wrong with BHO.

    he's got a freakin' LGBT page. just cede the point, rather than moving the goalposts... oh, wait...

    [ Parent ]

    Fine. I'll assume he has no interest (none / 0) (#205)
    by Joan in VA on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:52:13 PM EST
    in women's issues then. I don't need his vote. I wasn't saying anything beyond what I said which was I went to his website and couldn't find info (even though everyone says go to his website and you'll find all his positions).

    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 0) (#152)
    by Steve M on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:08:58 PM EST
    you can scold AA's all you want, it seems to me, but it wasn't intolerant AA's who put all those gay marriage initiatives on the ballot across the country.  I sense a little bit of Sista Souljah in the air.

    The message may be entirely accurate, but I still feel a little discomfort at the thought of Obama becoming some sort of Bill Cosby figure.

    [ Parent ]

    With Many Friends In The Entertainment (none / 0) (#182)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:25:37 PM EST
    industry, I have heard more than a few stories about Bill Cosby not liking non-black persons.  
    But listening to some of his rants, I can see how you might think it true.

    [ Parent ]
    Re: the first openly gay person Obama knew (none / 0) (#187)
    by Evie on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:29:21 PM EST
    "He wasn't proselytizing all the time"

    Unlike other gays and their gay gospel?

    [ Parent ]

    What do y'all think? (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by halstoon on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:41:28 PM EST
    Is this racist? Or--as the vendor claims--cute?

    Uh (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Steve M on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:43:26 PM EST
    That's quite racist.  What is the context?

    [ Parent ]
    A bar owner in Marietta, GA who is an ardent (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by halstoon on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:51:59 PM EST
    conservative is selling the shirts. As for context, I would argue the implication is clear. As to the GWB/Curious connections, they do share a name, and Bush is lampooned for his lack of speaking skills, which gets equated with intelligence. The Obama context seems to be purely racial. But that's just how I see it.

    The bar owner also put on his outdoor sign:

     I wish Hillary had married OJ.
    &
     No habla espanol--and never will.

    Guy's a douche and a moron if you ask me. I certainly won't be visiting his pub.

    [ Parent ]

    well said! (none / 0) (#118)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:55:59 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Charming fellow (none / 0) (#156)
    by Steve M on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:11:30 PM EST
    He should be run out of town for giving Georgia a bad name.

    [ Parent ]
    This is about equal (none / 0) (#162)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:13:08 PM EST
    to the Hillary nutcrackers.  The difference is the nutcrackers are perfectly fine to sell in about any store.  

    [ Parent ]
    excellent point! (none / 0) (#171)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:16:59 PM EST
    Not too many cries to take them off the shelf.

    [ Parent ]
    About as cute as (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by samanthasmom on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:53:01 PM EST
    this

    [ Parent ]
    Outrageously racist (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:58:53 PM EST
    Horrible.

    [ Parent ]
    What do you think (5.00 / 0) (#129)
    by Cream City on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:00:27 PM EST
    of what that t-shirt seller, the bar owner, puts up about Clinton?  That's in your link, too -- yet no comment from you about that.

    [ Parent ]
    Of course not (5.00 / 0) (#151)
    by samanthasmom on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:08:29 PM EST
    That's just funny.

    [ Parent ]
    That guy's a total wingnut. Did (5.00 / 0) (#140)
    by Joan in VA on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:05:41 PM EST
    you read the side story? What a jerk. And the answer is yes.

    [ Parent ]
    racist but I am not sure what to call (none / 0) (#78)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:43:44 PM EST
    the correlation between GWB and Curious George. No one has been compared to curious George more than GWB.  So I guess I could see why some people might not think it was racist. We all did evolve from other primates.

    [ Parent ]
    Well (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by Steve M on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:47:49 PM EST
    the monkey is named Curious George, not Curious Barack.

    Is that even a Curious George picture?  Looks like a generic monkey to me.

    [ Parent ]

    I would think (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by kmblue on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:50:29 PM EST
    the Curious George folk would sue.  Copyright infringement and all that.  Our current President is incurious George and always has been.

    The t-shirt is racist, no doubt, and very offensive.
    Kinda like the Hillary nutcracker.

    [ Parent ]

    As obvious as that is, it never occurred (none / 0) (#110)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:52:13 PM EST
    to me before...not sure what that says about me...but I always just thought GWB really does look like Curious George.

    [ Parent ]
    that's vile n/t (none / 0) (#170)
    by rilkefan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:16:56 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Those exit poll numbers (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Benjamin3 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:48:26 PM EST
    seem to point to a pretty big night for Hillary.  I've heard turnout is heavy, maybe as much as 400,000

    That would be fantastic (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by nycstray on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:56:17 PM EST
    we need those popular votes :)

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah. the horse race spreadsheet on (none / 0) (#127)
    by Teresa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:59:57 PM EST
    real clear politics doesn't predict that many.

    [ Parent ]
    Wow... (5.00 / 0) (#135)
    by Benjamin3 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:03:28 PM EST
    Just saw a new spread of exit polls numbers.  Hillary is winning like 70% of all her core groups across the board - women, seniors, working class, non college educated.  

    Turnout at last night's rally (5.00 / 0) (#139)
    by Cream City on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:05:10 PM EST
    by the WV governor, his regular "old-fashioned Democratic rally" held this year in Fairmont, is reported to have had an SRO turnout of more than 2,500.  I've been in the venue, and it must have been quite a squeeze -- and in a town of fewer than 20,000.

    Btw, Obama also was invited but declined to do more than one event in WV -- the one with veterans where he made his controversial remark about antiwar protesters.  Not that he would pander, oh no, but WV has had more Iraqi war fatalities than most states, from the start.

    CNN's John King is a racist! (5.00 / 0) (#160)
    by Cream City on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:12:55 PM EST
    and so are other commenters I'm hearing in only the last several minutes -- all of whom talked about how Clinton draws far better with, quote, the "white working class."  As I understand the Obama Roolz, it would be acceptable to refer to those voters as "teh unenlightened as yet not having epiphanies"?

    Peace (5.00 / 3) (#168)
    by CST on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:15:31 PM EST
    So it's time to return to life as a normal non intiernet personality.  Some closing thoughts...

    Hillary supporters, if Obama wins the nomination, we NEED you in November.  I know Obama supporters get a lot off flack for saying otherwise, as they should, so I just wanted to make my views clear.  Also, a few reasons to vote FOR Obama in November.

    • He was one of the co-sponsers (and the only presidential co-sponser) of the Fair Pay Act.

    • He has a very consistent and strong view on closing Guantanamo Bay and making sure Habeus Corpus remains intact.  His advocacy on behalf of this issue earned him the support of the Lawyers for Guantanamo Bay detainees.

    • Judges - People give him crap for the fact that he may have once wanted to vote for Roberts.  Well, fact is, he didn't vote for Roberts.  Not only that, he voted to filibuster Scalia.

    • Iraq.  I am with BTD on this one, I don't care why he spoke out, if it was politically motivated or not.  Fact is, he spoke out, and he was right.

    • He is, in fact, a Democrat and he has voted with democrats consistently over 95% of the time.

    This is kinda a long post so I'll end it with that, I'll be back with some more reasons next time....

    thank you (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:18:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    If only this had been the standard operating (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by Marvin42 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:27:11 PM EST
    procedure of all Obama supporters we would be in a very different world right now.

    Thanks.

    [ Parent ]

    West Virginia facts (4.00 / 4) (#4)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:18:22 PM EST
    State Flower: Rhododendron
    State Animal: Black Bear
    State Bird: Cardinal
    State Fruit: Golden Delicious Apple
    State Tree:  Sugar Maple
    State Insect: Honeybee
    State Fish:  Brook Trout

    Sounds pretty to me.  

    It is very pretty Stella. I hate to see people (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Teresa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:21:14 PM EST
    dissing the state and the nice people I've met there.

    CNN is having their regular election night coverage. I wonder if MSNBC is covering this one?

    [ Parent ]

    It is (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Steve M on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:22:39 PM EST
    one of the more beautiful states we have.  Of course, I'm objectively pro-mountain.

    [ Parent ]
    One unexpected benefit of this place (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by tree on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:43:56 PM EST
    is getting to hear descriptions of states I've never visited, or only visited as a young tyke from people who've lived there. So many new places to visit now.  

    [ Parent ]
    Do. WV is stunning (none / 0) (#105)
    by Cream City on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:50:34 PM EST
    and be sure to get onto those back roads, real country roads.  And stop lots of times at the antiques stores and more -- but also at the artsy stores in the "big towns" like Morgantown.  And talk to the good folks in Fairmont's folklore projects (we all saw some of their students on tv during the most recent mining disaster there, not long ago and nearby, as the students rushed over to assist).  

    I agree that it has been great to have the encouragement to find out more about many states; every primary sends me to census.gov's "quick facts."  But in the case of WV, I've been there and can fill in the data with wonderful experiences.

    That's one reason why I was amazed to read that Obama found himself "bored."  I know that the candidates don't get to stop and enjoy the scenery and people much -- but still, even one look out a car window at the scenery in WV is memorable.

    [ Parent ]

    Thanks. Its definitely on my list now. (none / 0) (#177)
    by tree on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:21:25 PM EST
    Unfortunately it will probably have to wait another 10 years until I retire, but I'll remember.

    [ Parent ]
    On The Promos They Said They Would Have (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:22:46 PM EST
    election night coverage from WVA.

    [ Parent ]
    The MSNBO panel (none / 0) (#157)
    by vigkat on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:11:30 PM EST
    is in place.  Timmeh just asked, "what does Hillary want"?  He says this is the question.  Olbermann and Tweety are listening with great interest.  The big riddle for all three apparently is that question. Tweety is really trying to figure her out, "because she is so complicated, and so is her husband."  He wonders whether she could be satisfied with something less than Bill had, i.e., the presidency. They're all being very careful not to suggest that this thing is over.  Questions, questions, questions. These guys are obsessed with what Hillary wants. Except for Chuck Todd; he's doing the math.

    [ Parent ]
    Well standard US politics (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:24:25 PM EST
    use identity politics so that you don't get class unity.  Cause class unity would be darn scary in America.  So, keep dividing the whites, the blacks, the hispanics and let the plutocrats do what they want.  

    [ Parent ]
    Hope you don't think (none / 0) (#16)
    by flashman on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:22:59 PM EST
    I'm dissing in my post just below.  Just some things I've heard.  Not meant to diss.

    [ Parent ]
    That's sad if it's true about the slow growth. (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Teresa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:25:32 PM EST
    They need to emphasize tourism. It's really beautiful and also the closet place for those of us further south to experience good winter mountain snow.

    [ Parent ]
    Closest not closet. Though I am a closet (none / 0) (#28)
    by Teresa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:27:30 PM EST
    snow lover!

    [ Parent ]
    I don't subscribe to cable. (none / 0) (#61)
    by seeker on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:38:07 PM EST
    I have watched the returns on the net.  At least until now, each cable network ran a special net broadcast of the returns.  As yet, I have found no evidence that they are doing so tonight.

    I guess I'll stick with C-SPAN, as I have been doing for the past few weeks,  To hell with them!

    [ Parent ]

    probably not! after all they need their (snark) (none / 0) (#84)
    by hellothere on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:45:09 PM EST
    pundits for other nights. you see their heads just might explode. ugg!

    [ Parent ]
    I must be hungry (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:24:05 PM EST
    I saw the list and thought 'pan fried trout,  and baked apples drizzled with honey and syrup'

    [ Parent ]
    Winner of the Top chef quick challenge (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:26:09 PM EST
    Pick a random state and make a menu from their symbols.  Awesome.  

    [ Parent ]
    I Love Everything About Top Chef, Except The (none / 0) (#33)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:28:52 PM EST
    brutality....and that would make for a great Quick Fire Challenge.  All of a sudden, I want to go to WVa.

    [ Parent ]
    That's nice and all... (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:27:47 PM EST
    ... but compare that to Maryland. Does West Virginia have a

    state crustacean? (blue crab)
    state dog? (Chesapeake Bay retriever)
    state fossil shell? (Ecphora gardnerae gardnerae)
    state boat? (skipjack)

    [ Parent ]

    did not look.... (none / 0) (#38)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:30:35 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    State fossil is (none / 0) (#207)
    by FlaDemFem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:28:11 PM EST
    Silicified Mississippian Fossil Coral. And the state butterfly is the Monarch. Being landlocked, it doesn't need a state boat. And the state dog is probably the Walker Hound, you can hunt anything with them. And the only crustacean I ate that was native there, that I caught myself, was a crawfish, looks like a mini lobster. You can find them in creeks all over WV. Oh, and the state soil is Monongahela Silt Loam.

    [ Parent ]
    Except for the cardinal (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:31:16 PM EST
    You might have been describing Western Washington.

    [ Parent ]
    Do they have Cardinals on the west coast? (none / 0) (#57)
    by nycstray on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:37:31 PM EST
    I don't recall ever seeing one in CA. I see them occasionally here. Kinda cool to look out the window and see a red bird  :)

    [ Parent ]
    I've never seen (none / 0) (#100)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:49:32 PM EST
    a cardinal here.  Doesn't mean we don't have them.

    [ Parent ]
    Beautiful state... (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by kredwyn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:31:21 PM EST
    Oddly...the Monogahela River flows up rather than down.

    [ Parent ]
    Omen: Denver, his most famous song about WV. (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:34:04 PM EST
    Hillary will win at the Convention.   Yes  Love omens.

    Almost heaven, west virginia
    Blue ridge mountains, shenandoah river
    Life is old there, older than the trees
    Younger than the mountains, blowing like a breeze

    Country roads, take me home
    To the place, I be-long
    West virginia, mountain momma
    Take me home, country roads

    All my memries, gather round her
    Miners lady, stranger to blue water
    Dark and dusty, painted on the sky
    Misty taste of moonshine, teardrop in my eye

    Country roads, take me home
    To the place, I be-long
    West virginia, mountain momma
    Take me home, country roads

    I hear her voice, in the mornin hours she calls to me
    The radio reminds me of my home far a-way
    And drivin down the road I get a feeling
    That I should have been home yesterday, yesterday

    Country roads, take me home
    To the place, I be-long
    West virginia, mountain momma
    Take me home, country roads



    [ Parent ]
    Beautiful! (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by christinep on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:14:37 PM EST
    That song and that memory truly does bring a tear to the eye. In talking politics with a friend of mine here (the other mountain state, Colorado), she reminisced about her home state of West Virginia. She is a sorta Obama supporter out here, but she noted how her relatives and others in WVa might view Obama as a "step too far" for them. In saying so, she specifically observed that she thought this not because of his blackness but because of his difference/perceived difference in culture (the "bitter-cling" stuff coupled with incomplete portrait of the man.) She concluded with an emphasis on her fond memories of the straightforwardness that characterizes the people. While saying that she believed the people there tend to view anyone not born there with a little skepticism (at first), she contradicted some of the CW with her deep belief that West Virginians are incredibly open, honest. (From this lady who now considers herself far-removed from WVa, citified thoroughly, well-travelled, "high info," etc.

    [ Parent ]
    Those are the characteristics (none / 0) (#204)
    by Cream City on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:50:17 PM EST
    that come to me, exactly, when I think of the people I met there, just visitin'. :-)  Very straightforward, very interested in others -- not at all isolationist, even if the topography isolates many towns.  

    And still a state of many small farms, unlike mine which has lost so many to large agricultural conglomerates.  (And thus the reason why the area split from Virginia and stayed with the Union -- and to this day has few AAs.  It never had many, with no plantation economy and few slaves there compared to much of the rest of the region.)  

    [ Parent ]

    That song.... (none / 0) (#181)
    by kredwyn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:25:12 PM EST
    the giant speakers on top of the truck, hot wings and blue...and a huge tailgate at Mountaineer Stadium.

    Oh and cup fights in he stands.

    [ Parent ]

    It's beautiful (5.00 / 1) (#81)