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Clyburn's Boneheaded Attempt To Help Obama

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:59:50 PM EST
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Rep. Jim Clyburn's (D-SC) behavior during the South Carolina campaign helped Obama a great deal in that primary. He really helped Obama become the candidate of African American voters in South Carolina and beyond. Of course, now Barack Obama has some trouble with white working class voters.

Now Clyburn is up to his old tricks, but I do not see the political logic to it. Barack Obama already will get at least 90% of the African American vote against Hillary Clinton. It is hard to imagine he can get much more. But Obama DOES need to improve his performance with white voters. Thus when Clyburn says:

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

I heard something, the first time yesterday (in South Carolina), and I heard it on the (House) floor today, which is telling me there are African Americans who have reached the decision that the Clintons know that she can’t win this. But they’re hell-bound to make it impossible for Obama to win.

He sounds like a crazy conspiracy theorist. He does Obama no good. He does him harm. Rep. Clyburn, you need to step away from the microphone please.

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    Clyburn's Boneheaded Attempt To Help Obama | 234 comments (234 topical)

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    CDS (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by pantsuit chic on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:02:46 PM EST
    Clinton Derangement Syndrome at its finest.

    Nah he cribbed it from Wright. (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Salo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:35:59 PM EST
    That's the line that Wright wanted to deliver on Moyers but could not deliver. He is transfering blame for the obvious biographical poison that Obama is swimmming in.

    MSNBC, Party elders and Barack's rivals, Thanks for concealing a few pertinent facts about Obama's not so unradical associations before Iowa voting.

    [ Parent ]

    Who in their right mind (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by IKE on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:01:51 PM EST
    will believe that James Clyburn is neutral in this whole thing. He is a Barack supporter and an ally of Pelosi. They are all supporting Barack and they know it. What really pisses me off is the fact that these people are claiming to be so neutral. People aren't dumb and are seeing right through this stuff, I saw pelosi on Larry King tonight and she made those same idiotic statements, the queen bee syndrome is really working.

    [ Parent ]
    This is going to get tons of play (5.00 / 5) (#2)
    by andgarden on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:03:04 PM EST
    I haven't checked, but I'm sure there will be a shrill dkos diary proclaiming the absolute truth of what Clyburn says. Expect to hear about it tomorrow from Olbermann.

    Come on (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Steve M on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:39:49 PM EST
    The "2012" theory has been gospel for AGES already!  The only reason they would write a diary about it is to note that a respected Congressman has finally proclaimed the undisputed truth about Hillary and her evil, evil scheme.

    [ Parent ]
    heh (none / 0) (#62)
    by andgarden on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:43:19 PM EST
    exactly.

    [ Parent ]
    Cyburn is repeating a CT on DKos!! (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Josey on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:06:46 PM EST
    >>>>he has heard speculation that Clinton is staying in the race only to try to derail Obama and pave the way for her to make another White House run in 2012.


    [ Parent ]
    Grrrrrrrrrr. (5.00 / 1) (#219)
    by pie on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:11:02 AM EST
    She wants to win in 2008.  Anyone who listens to her can see that.  She thinks she's the best person for the job in 2008. She has no guarantee of winning in 2012.  (Sorry, buy my crystal ball is cloudy today.)  We couldn't unseat Bush in 2004.  But McCain will be a one-termer?  He might be, because of his health.  Then we have his Vice-President to deal with.

    Obama and his crew can't control what's going on in this election, so they're resorting to the race card and speculation about Hillary's motives.  I can tell you this: he's not running on his qualifications for the job.

    Cyburn is a fool.

    [ Parent ]

    Reminds me of 2004 (none / 0) (#221)
    by Dave B on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:29:50 AM EST
    When the story was that Wes Clark was a stalking horse for Hillary, only in the race to stop Dean and clear the way for Hillary in 2008.

    [ Parent ]
    I remember that now. (none / 0) (#224)
    by pie on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:40:47 AM EST
    Digby has a post up about ambition.  Hillary wants the presidency now, but so does John McCain.

    [ Parent ]
    Look no further than the stupid headline (none / 0) (#8)
    by ghost2 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:16:13 PM EST
    BTD, it may be that they simply don't have any other strategy.  

    Before EVERY state primary with a large AA population, the Obama campaign has played the race card.  They may not get more than 90%, but they are sure going to try to increase the turnout of AA voters.  What else do they have in NC?

    This is shameful.  Rather than trying to appeal to all groups of American voters, Obama campaign is the ONE which is determined to WIN AT ANY COST.

    I assure you that AS SOON AS May 6th primaries are over, Obama will become the Harvard candidate again just in time to appeal to Oregonians.  The more things change....

    Winning ISN'T everything.  


    [ Parent ]

    they are going to get huge turnout anyway (none / 0) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:21:54 PM EST
    I ma sorry, I do not follow what you folks are arguing at all.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe Not NC Primary Related (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by MO Blue on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:33:16 PM EST
    There is a possibility that this is meant to sway the SDs into ending this now. Let's face it. The  Dems don't want to anything to anger the AA community.  

    [ Parent ]
    Its all of the above the Racist Card (none / 0) (#80)
    by Salt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:58:45 PM EST
    read the article, its editorial comment for Kos and Ko to fill the drum beat of the next two weeks with hate and ugliness so people will want the ugliness to stop ya know and its a try and change the story get them off of discussing why Obama cant win in Nov. calling people racists is more editorial and news worthy and no don't by the guy doesn't know what he is doing he dose.

    Bottom line it if the Racist card being plunked down yet again by Obama, pity thats all they have.

    This stuff is that helps McCain just prepare and stay focused its a red herring like gay marriage a wedge.

    [ Parent ]

    I think it does both (none / 0) (#210)
    by kimsaw on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:44:01 AM EST
    solidifies the AA vote in NC and tries to smear Clinton in the eyes of the SD's. Clyburn is playing with race to draw sympathy out for the novice. It's clear what's going on after Pelosi conversation on Larry King. If Dems like Pelosi and Clyburn could get to what's best for the party instead of  surrendering to their egos, they'd find their answer in a unity ticket. A unity ticket is the only viable alternative available to this party. Cuomo was the only sane voice in a sea of stupidity.

    [ Parent ]
    Is he (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by cal1942 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:24:07 PM EST
    talking about Clinton in the nominating primaries and Obama in the GE?

    I don't know what he expects to gain except further demonization of Hillary Clinton.

    Forcing Obama to compete in 9 more primaries exposes more Obama and the more he's exposed the weaker he gets. That, I believe is rankling him, in fact it's bothering the whole Obama crowd.

    Still, it's difficult to determine what he's trying to accomplish with that statement.

    It's interesting that the Obama campaign has demonized Hillary Clinton including Obama as a direct participant which one would assume possible damage to her if she is able to get the nomination.

    Yet the Clinton campaign hasn't demonized Obama.  Apparently their sin is forcing Obama to compete.

    The Clinton campaign has simply run ads that say, in effect, my policies are this and I'm better qualified for the office.  Hardly negative.  Hardly demonization.

    The tactics Axelrod uses(blame them for what we're doing) are so Rovian.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree that it doesn't make much sense (none / 0) (#37)
    by andgarden on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:32:12 PM EST
    because it could bleed over into Indiana and hurt Obama there. I showed the ward map of Philly: Obama did not get a bi-racial vote there, he got blacks and a FEW (but not all) latte liberals.

    [ Parent ]
    No Ind and Pa have totally different AA (none / 0) (#84)
    by Salt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:01:27 PM EST
    communites culture and leaders it will help not hurt in the AA community.

    [ Parent ]
    You didn't understand my comment (none / 0) (#86)
    by andgarden on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:02:17 PM EST
    I'm saying that it will not help with many whites, which is frankly what Obama needs.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh sorry, its likely to suppress the white vote (none / 0) (#94)
    by Salt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:09:34 PM EST
    for Clinton, think of the types and number of talk show interviews over the two weeks the State has some serious tenisons IMO.

    [ Parent ]
    No (none / 0) (#229)
    by cal1942 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:24:05 AM EST
    It wouldn't suppress the white vote. He sounds like such a twit that if anything, it might increase the white vote. African-Americans have turned out in high percentages in all the Democratic primaries.

    His statement is just nonsense that won't help his precious.

    He sounds like he's added a tinfoil hat to his wardrobe.

    [ Parent ]

    Conspiracy theories are abundant at DK! (none / 0) (#113)
    by Josey on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:34:03 PM EST
    And Clyburn repeats them as if they're credible!
    Oh - he sunk real low for this one.

    [ Parent ]
    well... (5.00 / 5) (#129)
    by Kathy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:44:46 PM EST
    it's not like Clyburn was googling around one day and read this on the internet.

    Let's face it, this is how these guys really feel.  Obama is something more than a politician to them--he is the Great Hope.  I don't mean it in a messiah-complex way, but in a straight guy crush sort of way.  These guys look at Obama and put everything onto him: young, smart, full of vim and vigor.  He is no longer a human being-his basic appeal is that he is anything by everyman.

    Of course anyone who challenges that has to be a horrible, vindictive and evil person.

    It's basic storytelling, folks: in order for there to be a good guy, there has to be a bad guy.  This is just another way of calling Clinton a monster.  I, for one, feel for both Bill and Hillary.  How they can go out there every day with so many knife wounds in their backs is a testament to their characters.

    [ Parent ]

    It's pretty darn simplistic thinking (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by cawaltz on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:18:44 PM EST
    Good guy- bad guy simplicity is what I expect from the GOP. Generally speaking I always thought liberals/progressives were usually smart enough to realize that things aren't that simple.

    Personally, I knew alot of these guys admired the RWNM but I figured they were smart enough to not pull something that WILL ultimately divide the party.

    [ Parent ]

    Vim and Vigor?? (none / 0) (#214)
    by ineedalife on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:00:53 AM EST
    Come on, he bowled a 37!!  That is serious limp-wrist territory.

    [ Parent ]
    Even the NYT editorial sings this song. (none / 0) (#222)
    by oculus on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:31:58 AM EST
    Please do not dare to besmirch the messenger of hope.

    [ Parent ]
    Add his remarks to... (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by kc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:56:01 AM EST
    those of Doug Wilder that I heard on CNN late this afternoon-he said that Hillary was running a dirty campaign and having 'hissy fits.' I thought it was odd at the time and sexist, but it makes sense now--a concerted effort before NC.

    This must come from the campaign, too much coincidence.

    [ Parent ]

    Are we 100% sure that (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Molly Pitcher on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:04:38 PM EST
    the only adjective that goes with 'racist' is white?  Actually, I think this is a case of 'dumb and dumber.'

    Here! here! (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by felizarte on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:31:35 PM EST
    For or against, because of color or ethnicity IS racism.

    [ Parent ]
    Hear! Hear! (none / 0) (#208)
    by cymro on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:20:25 AM EST
    There's no here nor there about it.

    ;)

    [ Parent ]

    We're 100% sure it's not the only adjective. (none / 0) (#30)
    by RalphB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:29:58 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Another Obama surrogate (5.00 / 13) (#4)
    by Coldblue on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:09:15 PM EST
    plays the race card.

    And yet Bill still gets crucified.

    Whatever...

    Another uncommitted delegate like Donna Brazille (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by TalkRight on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:18:11 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Sugar deal that Clyburn's got (none / 0) (#240)
    by TalkRight on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:47:31 PM EST
    He got the NC primary preponed under the condition that he would stay neutral till the convention... unfortunately staying neutral were "JUST WORDS"!!

    [ Parent ]
    Paranoia strikes deep (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Lahdee on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:14:51 PM EST
    into the South. This is an amazing, although not surprising, piece of logic. When an advocate is reduced to hate what's left? You can only play the hate card for so long before it gets old, and scary.

    Fox will have a field day.

    It Irks Me No End...Bcuz How Many Blacks Had (1.00 / 2) (#189)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:48:07 AM EST
    their hands out and took advantage of the programs Bill Clinton put into effect that actually helped make their lives better.  And then a snake oil salesman comes on the scene, feeds them a messianic line and they ran off to follow him.  And, they always find time to villify the Clintons.  Sorry, but it p'o's me big time.

    [ Parent ]
    This is garbage from you again (none / 0) (#236)
    by lookoverthere on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:31:11 AM EST
    Had their hands out? WTF?

    President Clinton tried to enact policy to benefit all Americans. But you're villifying only African-Americans for wanting to participate in economic and other opportunities of the time.

    Total garbage.

    [ Parent ]

    O/T (none / 0) (#17)
    by Coldblue on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:20:40 PM EST
    Are your email addresses still the same? I've sent to both.

    [ Parent ]
    Right on time (5.00 / 6) (#9)
    by Jim J on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:17:36 PM EST
    Another old Confederacy primary coming up, another opportunity to play the race card, hard, so as to jack up the vote total.

    They are running scared of HRC beating him in the popular vote. The boy bloggers are really hysterical over this right now, they see the writing on the wall. MyDD is currently overrun with Obamabots freaking out about Jerome's call for MI and FL to be seated.

    They are scared, make no mistake.

    I disagree (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:19:46 PM EST
    Obama gets 90% of the A-A vote already. In SC, you could see the short term political logic. Now?

    No way. If the Obama campaign is happy with this, then they are fools.

    [ Parent ]

    You disagree with what? (none / 0) (#20)
    by Jim J on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:21:23 PM EST
    That it's the race card, or that the fanboyz are scared of the popular vote? You haven't been saying the latter for quite awhile now?

    [ Parent ]
    That it is an opportunity (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:22:56 PM EST
    It is stupid.

    [ Parent ]
    you may have read this (none / 0) (#101)
    by Salo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:13:06 PM EST
    see the section on NC.

    http://race42008.com/2008/04/01/no-really-hillary-has-a-decent-shot/

    He needs to drive up the black vote to the max.

    [ Parent ]

    he wants 100% (none / 0) (#55)
    by Salo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:38:48 PM EST
    The triple Stalin.

    [ Parent ]
    Of course Obama is happy with it!! (none / 0) (#100)
    by Josey on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:13:03 PM EST
    he and his supporters have played the Race Card throughout the primary!
    Maybe Clyburn's timing is to offset some of the Wright-fest reviving now - although I fully believe Obama's PR team orchestrated Wright's interview with Moyers and his appearance at the National Press Club on Mon.

    [ Parent ]
    Part of Obama Camp's Decision Not to Go Negative? (none / 0) (#71)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:52:50 PM EST
    Perhaps, as the news media dutifully report that Obama has insisted that his campaign not go negative, the surrogates are being sent out to do more dirty work.....

    [ Parent ]
    Obama sends out (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:00:07 PM EST
    his campaign has been the most negative and divisive, yet, he gets off with the big lie that he is not negative.  Maybe BTD is right.  But how many times can he do that?  That is why I think it will  not work in the GE.  

    [ Parent ]
    There is no way that Clyburn would do this without (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Salt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:17:27 PM EST
    Obama's ok he is a surrgate but its coming from Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    I think it's coming from Axelrod (none / 0) (#148)
    by nycstray on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:20:23 PM EST
    Obama is an opportunistic puppet, imo.

    Dude can't even think on his feet.

    [ Parent ]

    He's not a "surrgate" (none / 0) (#231)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:29:37 AM EST
    Clyburn is undeclared...

    [ Parent ]
    Thank you for pointing this out (none / 0) (#234)
    by debrazza on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:14:20 AM EST
    Earlier in this thread, someone thought Clyburn was John Lewis.  And now people are saying that he is an Obama surrogate.  Look, you can say a lot of things about Clyburn if you want, but he is always someone that has always had extremely high marks when it comes to integrity.  While it is true that his comments make it seem that he is leaning Obama, he has not declared and every SD that has not declared is doing Hillary a favor, because we need to run this thing as long as possible.

    I wish people would stop attacking him.  It makes me a litte sick actually.  Does anyone consider the fact that his constituents went 90% for Obama and he has to justify to them why he is stilll on the fence so many months after South Carolina?  People might want to consider that and consider that he is still undeclared and actually thank him instead for standing up against enormous constituent pressure.

    [ Parent ]

    And a sister State in the north (none / 0) (#96)
    by Salt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:10:54 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    But BTD, there is no difference between (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by MarkL on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:18:14 PM EST
    what Clyburn says now, and what he said to great effect 2 months ago. What the Obama camp did in January and February should have been roundly condemned. Maybe this time voters will be more savvy.

    I am not saying there is (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:20:26 PM EST
    I am saying that it might have been short term politically shrewd then, it is just plain dumb now.

    [ Parent ]
    My guess is that ... (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Salo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:41:57 PM EST
    ...they'll have a clip of Bill saying something in response to Clyburn. Maybe a cub reporter's dumb question, about blacks and NC, and then it'll be played out in Oregon that bill's a racist warmonger.

    That'll fool the westcoast liberals for long enough.  it's largely how he fooled the rocky mountain Dems.

    [ Parent ]

    Doubt this has anything to do with AA (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by RalphB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:07:44 PM EST
    vote.  Probably just a fresh injection of race to gin up more white liberal guilt among the intelligentsia.  Just in case some people wete beginning to wonder why they should feel guilty and vote for Obama.


    [ Parent ]
    Intelligentsia (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:11:50 PM EST
    Man, what can one say about them.  Not one independent thinker, wait, Krugman.  That is it.  They have fallen in line with the prescribed PC line and forgot any kind of critical thinking.  They have all been manipulated by the Obama Campaign.  Note I don't say Obama.  It's a campaign, and they all fell for it.  

    [ Parent ]
    I hear this same riff all the time! (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Exeter on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:21:11 PM EST
    What do you expect -- the media is constantly reporting that it is "mathematically impossible" for Hillary to win and Slate's "Death watch" section devoted to Hillary is emblematic of the absurd coverage that Hillary has gotten for the last two months. I've heard almost verbatum come out of the mouth of almost every major "news" personality. Frankly, with all this, it's amazing that she is on cusp of taking the popular vote lead from Obama.

    Any other politician (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by RalphB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:25:51 PM EST
    would be out of the race by now.  Those silly people just keep on voting for Hillary.  Guess most of us don't know we're supposed to hate her  :-)


    [ Parent ]
    Hate her? (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by cawaltz on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:30:42 PM EST
    She's got a setof brass ones on her. Quite frankly, I LOVE the Hillary I see on the campaign trail right now.

    [ Parent ]
    Me to! (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by RalphB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:37:29 PM EST
    I'm not really sure how she became the working class warrior in this race, but I'm darn glad of it.  Her brass ones are bigger and shinier than any other as well.


    [ Parent ]
    Bad. (5.00 / 6) (#25)
    by lilburro on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:23:21 PM EST
    First of all Clyburn could back up his accusation.  Is the brief mention of Ayers in the debate all he has?

    Of course, that won't happen because this is politics.  So really, why DID he say that?  Bloggers and the media have been way up front with the "destroy Obama so she can run in 2012" theory.  Why not mention them?

    This type of statement is what is dividing the party.  It's the new Obama spin - "The party is in shambles because of Clinton.  Still I respect her right to run."  Oh yes, it's obvious you do.  

    What I think is hurting the party more is conflating the working class with racism/racists.  This complete simplification and misunderstanding is the true gift to the Republican party.  There's a lot of have-nots out there.  Remember?  That's what the Dem Party is about?

    But this is what Obama Nation believes (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Jim J on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:29:07 PM EST
    they really don't want blue-collar, working class votes, or PC users, or people over 50. They really, really don't. Sometimes people mean what they say.

    [ Parent ]
    The new (none / 0) (#44)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:35:01 PM EST
    catch phrase is "small tent democrats". Or maybe we should start shortening it to "STD"s. Ooh, that also has another meaning doesn't it?

    [ Parent ]
    have-nots? (none / 0) (#38)
    by RalphB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:32:17 PM EST
    Yes, that's what the democratic party is supposed to be all about or used to be about.  Seems the revamped party is more about elite snobbery and new young members.  Jeez, that's such a losing proposition.  

    [ Parent ]
    It infurirates me. (5.00 / 4) (#51)
    by lilburro on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:38:01 PM EST
    Maybe other people won't notice.  Maybe they don't notice.  I guess that is what I should hope for.  But the comments from Obama, Axelrod, and various pundits felicitous to Obama confound me.  It's hard to run on having the right economic ideas when you confess not caring about the people those ideas would most help.  It's hard to run as a Democrat without seeming connected to the common man.  Guys in suits don't get to parade around telling people who aren't in suits what they are and what they "actually" feel.  There will be consequences for that.  They are negatively branding the working class.  

    [ Parent ]
    Negatively branding the working class (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by RalphB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:22:18 PM EST
    and damaging the Democratic party brand in the process.  Bill Clinton had the Dem brand in pretty good shape and who ran on his record, GW Bush.  His 2000 campaign message was a good one.  Keep the economic prosperity going and a humbler foreign policy.  Didn't that work out great?

    Whoever convinced Al Gore to run away from Clinton in 2000 really hurt his chances.  Running on a platform of "the people vs the powerful" was a bad idea in a great economy when people felt good about how the country was running.  

    I'll bet the same wise men who advised Gore to run away from Clinton are now behind Obama's candidacy.


    [ Parent ]

    The same unwise men who advised Gore? (5.00 / 3) (#111)
    by Prabhata on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:28:41 PM EST
    Could it be Donna Brazile?

    [ Parent ]
    Bingo! (none / 0) (#144)
    by arky on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:12:11 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    liburro, you are so right! (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by otherlisa on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:02:18 AM EST
    I'm a Hillary supporter so I suppose I should celebrate the Obama campaign's incredibly destructive strategy of branding working class voters as racists, because they won't vote for him.

    But this is about working class voters across all kinds of demographic/ethnic lines. With the exception of African Americans, working class voters are not going for this guy.

    And ultimately what Obama and his supporters are doing is nothing I can celebrate because it's so incredibly destructive to the Democratic party and to the interests of working class people.

    [ Parent ]

    You obviously (none / 0) (#225)
    by wasabi on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:13:50 AM EST
    know nothing about Texas.

    [ Parent ]
    Wrong. (none / 0) (#235)
    by echinopsia on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:24:14 AM EST
    These Blue collar white guys haven't voted Democrat for 30 years. These are these are the people that put Reagan in office who stuck Bush back in who gave us Bush again.

    Bill Clinton didn't win with them either time they still broke 50+ for the GOP.

    Read this.

    [ Parent ]

    In other words (none / 0) (#244)
    by echinopsia on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:50:22 PM EST
    "Don't bother me with facts and statistics and hard research. I like my opinions better!"

    [ Parent ]
    Isn't this holding the black vote hostage?? (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by athyrio on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:31:23 PM EST
    In doing so, isnt this a way of "poisoning the well" so to speak for Hillary's candidacy??

    Is it because they are convinced (none / 0) (#50)
    by felizarte on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:37:42 PM EST
    that Hillary will be the eventual nominee?  But if they are not able to keep Hillary down with everything that has been thrown at her by the Obama supporters and even Obama, the MSM, what makes them think that she does not already have the antidote for the poison in the well?  These things are the ones that allow her to shine.  

    [ Parent ]
    yes and they would then plan for her to lose (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by athyrio on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:48:54 PM EST
    thereby giving him the opportunity to run again in 4 yrs...So maybe they are really the ones with this plan and they are ascribing it to Hillary...

    [ Parent ]
    Hmm (none / 0) (#61)
    by Steve M on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:42:15 PM EST
    Actually, it's unclear what exactly would become of the "Hillary knows she has no chance to win" argument if she actually did win.  I'm sure they would fit it into a narrative somehow.

    [ Parent ]
    maybe the 10 mil Hillary raised really (none / 0) (#70)
    by thereyougo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:51:39 PM EST
    spooked them and her 10% win and the 3:1 spending just discouraged them. Heck I'd be after spending 11 million in 6 weeks, dayum. Now thats some change right there.

    I'm thinking they're still recovering from the shock, they have to be. They thought that it could be done, and take her down. I hope they learned a lesson, that experience and brand name is priceless.


    [ Parent ]

    I dunno (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by Steve M on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:57:49 PM EST
    It strikes me as a sign of great confidence when people go apesh*t making sure you know that it was only a 9.2 point margin of victory, not 10.  That's how winners behave in my experience.

    [ Parent ]
    When Markos started that game (none / 0) (#81)
    by andgarden on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:59:13 PM EST
    I knew Hillary had REALLY won. He knew that his "she has to win by 19!" gambit wasn't going to fly.

    [ Parent ]
    Or just (none / 0) (#109)
    by magisterludi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:26:25 PM EST
    sore losers.

    [ Parent ]
    it was an inane statement, totally made no sense (none / 0) (#73)
    by thereyougo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:53:40 PM EST
    whatsoever.

    [ Parent ]
    The point of this (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:32:37 PM EST
    as I see it is:
    AA's aren't stupid. They listen to the news and saw that Hillary won almost all the demographic groups in PA hence many are probably starting to waver in their support for Obama believing that he can't win in Nov. Using the race card is one way to shore up wavering AA support. OF course, it is also stupid because it could cause him to lose even more white support in NC. I think people in general are getting really tired of the whining from Obama, his campaign and his surrogates.

    I Surely Hope So Because I've Been Tired Of It (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by MO Blue on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:38:29 PM EST
    since January or February.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:00:04 PM EST
    And I think the Obama camp may be scared that the AA vote in PA did not turn out in the percentages they expected.

    [ Parent ]
    or the vaunted YOUTH vote still give him his (none / 0) (#97)
    by thereyougo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:11:18 PM EST
    due, he did break a million votes.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't Forget The A.D.D. Factor For the Youth Vote (none / 0) (#192)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:56:08 AM EST
    This generation is easily distracted and if they perceive that Obama is in trouble, they just may move on and vote for someone else or not vote at all.  This seems to be the age of no accountability and I wouldn't be surprised if it played out this way.

    [ Parent ]
    That's a good observation (none / 0) (#102)
    by cawaltz on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:16:07 PM EST
    That may very well be it. They may think that fanning the fires is what they need to get that higher AA turnout. The whole premise on why Obama will do well in NC is because of the AA vote. Furthermore after the rout in PA, they really NEED NC to be the double digit rout to staunch electability concerns(and wasn't there a poll recently that showed her under double digits?). Expectations are pretty high there if I'm not mistaken.

    [ Parent ]
    Aren't they concerned (none / 0) (#134)
    by felizarte on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:49:53 PM EST
    that fanning the black community to vote as one for Barack has the possibility to fanning the white vote to vote for Clinton only?

    [ Parent ]
    It does (none / 0) (#151)
    by cawaltz on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:23:18 PM EST
    and the rhethoric desn't exist in a vacumn. Comments like these could affect Indiana which has a large quantity of white working class.

    I'm with BTD, I think this was a dumb move. Then again I live with a white male who tired of hearing racist early on in the campaign. The cries of racism have become a tired, played out song.

    [ Parent ]

    Isn't this strategy (none / 0) (#177)
    by Serene1 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:14:56 AM EST
    of theirs similar (kind of) to their strategy of 'Democrats for a day' registration drive they employed in PA, Ohio and Texas. They thought they would capitalize on the republican hatred for Clintons and thus boost their numbers.

    Since that didn't work very effectively, this must be their Plan B strategy to
    a. reinforce the white guilt among the DNC establishment and SD so that there is no overwhelming visible support of Hillary from them.
    b. To shore up their AA, youth, and elite white liberals vote base (i think they have kind of given up on blue collar white votes and are building a coalition of the rest).

    This is a more tactical strategy to ensure that they don't bleed further. Whatever they may say publicly, privately they realize that they have still not won the nomination and hence need to fight for it with every trick (sometimes dirty) available.

    [ Parent ]

    Well maybe, but Ohio and Pa have very strong (none / 0) (#168)
    by Salt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:50:36 PM EST
    empowered black leaders, they would not play along with a Race card IMO.  Back in the run up to SC when Brazile played her stunt on CNN then in her Clyburn Brazile interview of Bill Clinton racist code, Rep Tubbs Jones handled her very well and she is Hillary's co chair in Ohio and a damn good one.

    [ Parent ]
    Also.... (none / 0) (#202)
    by kc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:13:53 AM EST
    maybe the GOP ad being run in NC is starting to hurt.

    And, the Doug Wilder rant today, to further reinforce the racist tactic.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't know what Obama could ever do (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by nycvoter on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:33:31 PM EST
    to convince me to forgive him and vote for him in November and I have voted in every election, primary and off year and have never asked a Democratic nominee to explain to me why he deserved my vote.  I am sick and tired of their campaign, there isn't anything uplifting, hopeful or unifying other than rhetoric that is not backed up with the facts on the ground or any great soaring record of achievement that can make me vote for Obama

    I'm in the same boat... (none / 0) (#48)
    by mg7505 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:36:11 PM EST
    but I'm going to hold my nose and do it so we don't drown in another Republican administration. Pretty please...?

    [ Parent ]
    I don't have vote for BO because (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Prabhata on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:32:42 PM EST
    I live in CA and it will go Democrat with either.  I can abstain from marking the POTUS choice.  Heck, I can even vote Green.  It just won't matter.

    [ Parent ]
    Right there with ya (none / 0) (#120)
    by sumac on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:38:22 PM EST
    I'm in Texas so we know this state is in the can for  Bush-lite.

    I can write in a nominee or vote for the Green nominee... the options are really quite liberating. I will vote down-ticket Dem (in Austin it does matter). And I'll wait another 4 years to get this (putting a strong Dem President in office) right.

    [ Parent ]

    no (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by sas on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:37:59 PM EST
    i'm sitting out

    i'm not holding my nose

    they can go to hell

    [ Parent ]

    I understand your POV (none / 0) (#124)
    by sumac on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:42:15 PM EST
    This is going to sound so weird to my own ears, but I have the "luxury" of living in Texas so my vote isn't going to matter anyway. But what I won't do is give Obama even 1 more vote to add to his popular vote totals.

    I will vote Democratic candidates (primarily female) and grow a couple of gray hairs while I wait for 2012.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm in California and the worst one (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by felizarte on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:54:08 PM EST
    because we will be five for McCain if Clinton is not the nominee.

    [ Parent ]
    I used to live in CA (none / 0) (#140)
    by sumac on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:04:42 PM EST
    ...and was thinking today that I wish I lived there again so I could vote against Pelosi when she comes up for reelection.

    It will be interesting/sad/justified ??? to see the results of some of these "blue" states in November.

    [ Parent ]

    I used to live there also (none / 0) (#154)
    by nycstray on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:24:49 PM EST
    but now I'm in that supposed other big 'blue' state. I'll be writing in Hillary. No votes for Obama from me.

    I wonder what color we'll be in Nov . . .

    [ Parent ]

    Ever notice the script Obama supporters follow (none / 0) (#230)
    by tannersmom on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:27:21 AM EST
    I agree. I tried to have a discussion with a friend at work about BO and their seems to be a script they follow 1. He's wonderful and will bring hope peace and cookies to DC; 2. Well HC is so bad nothing he does can be worse and 3. If that doesn't convince you, then you are racist.

    I have voted in every election since I turned 18, went through the drought of Reagan and Bush one and now when I feel a democrat has a real chance to try and get this country back on track,there is no way I can vote for BO, I see in him the same vacant no record appeal to a certain segment of the base that the Repugs had in Bush baby. There is no way I can contribute to giving this country over to another be all to all people amateur after the destruction we suffered in the last 8 years. As hard as it is for me to believe, I would rather have an old sage of the other party then another incompetent.

    [ Parent ]

    After (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by sas on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:36:03 PM EST
    Obama's humiliating loss in PA, it has become clear to me that he cannot win a large share of the white vote.

    Is this racism at work?  Maybe, but no more so than his ability to win around 85-90 % of the black vote is racism at work.  

    Huckabee and Thomson are saying the same thing (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Prabhata on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:34:31 PM EST
    it's racism at work.

    [ Parent ]
    Not necessarily racism (none / 0) (#158)
    by nycstray on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:28:03 PM EST
    intelligencism might be a bigger problem for Obama in getting the white vote . . .

    [ Parent ]
    Here's my theory (5.00 / 3) (#199)
    by echinopsia on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:11:36 AM EST
    You know how people say "I'd vote for a woman for president, just not this woman"?

    It's the same for Obama. Lots of people would vote for a black man for president, just not this black man.

    He could have been seen as "postracial," but he had to go and smear the Clintons as racists, not distance himself from Wright, say "typical white person," and imply that small town Pennsylvanians won't vote for him because they're bigots.

    You call people racists and bigots for no reason long enough, eventually they're going to stop worrying about you calling them racists. White guilt is not bottomless.

    [ Parent ]

    I really don't agree with this in either case. (none / 0) (#204)
    by MojaveWolf on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:58:51 AM EST
    Obama has won an overwhelming share of the white vote in some states, and a majority of white males in a lot of states.  Hillary is starting to turn these things around through her superior debating skills, policy positions and  the positive aspects of her campaign, more than anything (I don't think highlighting Obama's negatives has helped her much; her campaign is somewhat clumsy at this and when she's speaking her heart isn't in it; plus it helps the media and the Obama campaign pretend she's been doing it all along like they claim)(which isn't to say that the msm thinking Obama has it won and starting to attack him to set up the GE hasn't helped her, just as their relentless assaults on her for months helped him during that time).

    Likewise, re: th black vote, the media hasn't really highlighted the policy differences in the candidates, and if you think their policies are fairly similar, and you think both of them would have positive historical symbolism, it makes sense you'd decide based on the one who you think has the most in common with you.  That's not racist, that's people voting their own interests.

    Plus, a lot of people in the African American community have bought into the Obama campaign meme that the Clinton campaign (or at least Bill, but frequently the whole campaign) are racist, or were  deliberately race-baiting (again, Bill in particular) even if they weren't racist.  While I think people are very wrong to believe this, being wrong doesn't make them racist.

    There might be some people voting for bigoted reasons, but that's a nasty charge that I really don't want to throw around without evidence.  

    [ Parent ]

    He's not as dumb as Samantha Power. (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by lilburro on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:40:19 PM EST
    He's been in the game.  He knows what he says has political consequence.  He perhaps said it with all the even-handedness in the world, but he should know by now that print has a certain effect.

    Clyburn just heard this for the first time (5.00 / 4) (#59)
    by Anne on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:40:30 PM EST
    yesterday???  Where the heck has he been for the last three months - in an undisclosed location? Incommunicado?

    Jeez, all Clyburn has to do to hear people talking about how Hillary can't win, and how she's only in this to make Obama lose, and how she hates the party and wants to rip it apart, is turn on the TV or the radio or pick up a newspaper - people of all colors and gender are saying this - what's the point of him saying he's hearing it from African Americans?

    Guess we're supposed to say, "Oooooh, now we're really, really scared!"

    Honestly, someone needs to call the Centers for Disease Control, because this derangement thing has reached the epidemic stage.

    You would be surprised (none / 0) (#207)
    by debrazza on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:27:04 AM EST
    how many people of his generation don't even use email.  There is this really old partner in my firm that doesn't even have a workstation at his desk.  He has his secretary print out all of his emails and then he reads them and then dictates or provides notes to her for a response.  It's crazy.  It's just a different generation.  I mean, can you imagine Clyburn spending his days surfing dKos or HuffPo?

    He is an honorable guy, judging by the fact that he has not committed yet helps Hillary at least.  Just like Bayh holding the line with freshmen Congressmen in IN who Obama campaigned for in '06.  I personally think that he is just saying what is on his mind and I think because of his status, we should be a little more careful in how we consider his comments or respond.

    Is he a likely Obama SD?  Yeah, probably, but he also probably just wants to be with the winner.  He has not committed yet remember.  So if his constituents are telling him things in his district and being upset and probably lobbying hard for him to endorse and he still has not, then well I think he is actually favorable to Clinton if she can get the popular vote.

    [ Parent ]

    He came out for Obama (none / 0) (#228)
    by wasabi on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:23:47 AM EST
    He originally supported Clinton, but changed his SD support to Obama when his district went heavily for Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    Huh? (none / 0) (#233)
    by debrazza on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:07:00 AM EST
    No he did not.   If you read the story, it states clearly that he is uncommitted.  Maybe you are thinking of John Lewis, who did switch sides.  Considering Lewis is from Georgia, I don't know why you would have that confusion.  As a person of color myself, I do have an idea though.

    [ Parent ]
    No no its the white man beating the blackman down (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Salt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:44:51 PM EST
    Group grievance card being pulled, it's about racial grievance and the tactic is that Dems will rally if Obama is attacked.  They don't get that they have cried wolf way tooo  many times and Dems will not rally to Obama.................but it dose give cable KO types their talking points, Kos his hate to throw and a license for them to call Hillary and Bill wicked mean racist etc. beating up on poor Obama victim to the powerful rich white people again, watch KO spit and sputter et al tomorrow....its their attack call to arms its victimhood 101 and co dependency 102 text book

    lets also remember who they are trying to inflame NC for turn out the vote inflame and be angry in the exit polling interviews in run up, and Indiana racially sensitive to beign with and that goes way back will have similar tensions  Ind is unlike PA and Ohio  Its still the Race Card, I don't admire the tactic its not a victimless act but I get why they use it...

    ...watch for a Robison Brazile something on CNN or Wapo interview again as a companion piece would not surprise me, JJJR was on Bill O'Reily last night in case you missed it anyone see Prof Dyson yet

    , ....No one would ever connivance me Clyburn doesn't know what code he is using don't buy it...

    Oh and supposedly this is Rev Wright line too the Divisive one did it and we all know who that is supposed to be

    This is the stuff that makes the Party look bad


    How is what Clyburn said in anyway racial? (none / 0) (#187)
    by Seth90212 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:45:15 AM EST
    Please be specific and cite defensible evidence.

    [ Parent ]
    Clinton (none / 0) (#237)
    by AnninCA on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:36:04 AM EST
    will have a ready answer.

    This won't work.

    [ Parent ]

    Does anyone find it odd (5.00 / 2) (#99)