Evening Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat

Speaking for me only

I realize that I have not watched Keith Olbermann's show for a while now. I wonder if it is still the same anti-Hillary fest? I also wonder what people who have not been watching him lately who used to be regular watchers (like I once was) are watching now, if anything. Let me know what you are watching now.

This is an Open thread.

Update (TL):Comments now closed, a new open thread is up for you to continue your discussions.

< The Demographics Of The Dem Contest | Seating Delegates Not Enough, Their Votes Must Count >
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    If not Olbermann, what? (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:08:17 PM EST
    Not watching nuthin'.  Hanging out at TalkLeft until Jon Stewart comes on instead...

    No more KO... (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by nashville on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:33:11 PM EST
    and it used to be a must.  I tried CNN, but Jack Cafferty sends me over the edge. I actually used to kinda like him, too.  I still just don't get the Hillary hatred?????  Law & Order reruns for me instead of news.  

    I'm watching Law and Order now too. (none / 0) (#60)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:42:07 PM EST
    All the shows are finally coming back (none / 0) (#154)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:20:32 PM EST
    with new episodes - Bones and House and Hell's Kitchen.  Gordon Ramsay - how would you like to have to cook dinner for him?  Sheesh.

    "Medium" has been especially good since it started a couple weeks ago.

    Reading is good, too!


    Same here (none / 0) (#161)
    by surrealone on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:24:55 PM EST
    In Denver, used to be on at 6 & 10, now he is on at 6 & 8 (try to compete with in prime time, ha..); gave it up 2 months ago; wife, BO supporter, is still hook; get mad at me since I don't sit with her any more.

    Just waiting on Jon and Colbert rerun (day old) @9:00 & 9:30


    Not watching him at all since he joined (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by athyrio on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:12:27 PM EST
    the Obama love fest...Tweety today asked the crowd who was voting for Hillary and they booed (college crowd) like a football game...It was disgusting...

    I couldn't bear to watch it (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by vigkat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:25:05 PM EST
    I really cannot watch either Tweety or Olbermann anymore.  I'm afraid I may go into spasms.

    I gave up. (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by lansing quaker on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:12:55 PM EST
    I gave up on KO a long time ago.

    Then I got rid of Cable!

    I get to save money and stop pre-mature balding at the same time!

    Cable is just such a waste, and the crazy that's been going on in the cable news networks just made me stop my TV altogether.  I'd much prefer to watch a Drew Barrymore RomCom on DVD, anyhow.

    Pony joke (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:14:38 PM EST
    KO just showed Clinton doing the pony joke....

    A man walks by and sees a small boy digging in manure.  The man says 'boy, what are you doing digging in manure?' The boy says... with all the manure, I figure there must be a PONY. Obama's campaign is a new paradigm, blah, blah, blah.
    I then changed the channel as 30 seconds of positive coverage is all she gets on MSNBC in one week.  Obama's campaign is a new paradigm, blah, blah, blah.

    Ran over to Fox.  Dick Morris says Clinton can't leave because her superdelegates would go to Obama and that she's lost?  He thinks she will never be a power player, she's like Kennedy a symbol of the 'good cause' and will have difficulty getting reelected in NY if they put an AA up against her.

    OK, I did my part, now somebody cough up what was going on in places like Kos.

    At dKos the other KO (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by badger on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:30:18 PM EST
    (kid oakland) has a diary up in which he speculates that Hillary supporters might be human and even intelligent and that their support and votes might be useful in November. He was surprised. The comments I read seem to disagree.

    I found it via a link at Corrente here

    Interestingly, I don't think I recognized a single commenter in the thread, but I haven't read much there (just links from other blogs) in a month or two.


    You type a lot faster than I do. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Democratic Cat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:39:08 PM EST
    too little (none / 0) (#34)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:33:11 PM EST
    too late.

    Sorry if this has already been discussed (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Democratic Cat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:38:11 PM EST
    But on Kos today, the other KO had a diary (which I only skimmed) about how he was surprised to talk to some Clinton supporters who were refusing to read DK right now because of the level of vitriol. So KO says maybe Obama supporters have to make nice.

    Of course the comments still had a good amount of "Hillary is stupid."  "Hillary is a liar."  "Hillary is a divisive word that rhymes with witch."

    OK, I've done my duty, back to work. (And if this was already discussed, I apologize; I can't keep up with all the commenting here with all of this silliness about having to earn a paycheck!)


    For Immediate release (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by athyrio on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:17:49 PM EST
    Immediate Release: April 2, 2008 Contact: Michal Regunberg

    this is good!!!!!

    I never watched KO (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:19:07 PM EST
    because I always thought what he was doing was just as dangerous as what Limbaugh and Hannity were doing.  I don't want to sound arrogant (though I did give a speech against zealous, one-sided punditry in 2002...note to self: put that back up on my website....) but I knew that it would come back and bite us all in the butt eventually.  We always turn into the thing we most despise.

    As to what I am watching, two words: Battlestar, Baby!  Two more frackin' days!!!

    BSG Rocks!!! (none / 0) (#40)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:34:06 PM EST
    Can we has BSG live-blog on Friday?

    Who do you think the final Cylon is?


    We can do that (none / 0) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:36:50 PM EST
    I am a SciFI channel geek.

    Funny (none / 0) (#49)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:38:01 PM EST
    Star Trek TNG made me a little Marxist when I was a kid.

    Me too, I have DVDs to watch if (none / 0) (#75)
    by FlaDemFem on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:49:40 PM EST
    the channels I allow on my guide(no news) don't have anything worth watching. I just finished watching Babylon5 again, beginning at second season to the end. And am a Trekkie since the original show..the sequels are better, but still, that's where the addiction started..LOL I read several newspapers from around the country online everyday and when I do watch news, it's the BBC. They have the best news, in my opinion. And their interviewers don't pull punches or lob softballs. Good stuff, BBC.

    there's a British series (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:53:44 PM EST
    called Life on Mars that is fabulous.  I used to enjoy Jericho and Journeyman, but of course they cancelled those just to spite me.  Oh, and I love Torchwood and picked up the new season DVDs in London.  And there's a great one called Charlie Jade, and, Jesus, I am really looking pathetic here, aren't I?  Yeah, I watch a lot of TV.  What's it to ya?

    (Oh!  But, I was out of the country last week and there is no Lost on my Tivo.  Was there not a new ep?  I checked iTunes and ABC and it seems like they didn't have one last week???)

    New Trek movie coming out soon--can't wait!


    No New Lost (none / 0) (#110)
    by AmyinSC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:00:10 PM EST
    So, you didn't miss it!

    I LOVE Torchwood - it is brilliant! And, I cannot wait for the new season of Robin Hood starting in a few weeks!  

    And I'm looking forward to the new Trek movie, too!


    What is your website? n/t (none / 0) (#135)
    by halstoon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:13:10 PM EST
    Who, Me? (none / 0) (#145)
    by AmyinSC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:17:36 PM EST
    Or Kathy?

    Kathy (none / 0) (#159)
    by halstoon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:22:47 PM EST
    But if you have one, do post a link. ;o)

    Sorry... (none / 0) (#165)
    by AmyinSC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:27:44 PM EST
    For the confusion!  And yeah, Kathy - I think many of us would be interested if you have a site!

    And I do (rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com), though I don't know the proper format to do the link here.


    Cool! (none / 0) (#180)
    by halstoon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:35:39 PM EST
    I didn't realize UU's ordained ministers. I thought they did the Mormon-type "speaker" thing each week. Very interesting. You learn every day, right?

    Would an occasion theological question over there bother you?


    this is the webpage I posted (none / 0) (#176)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:34:14 PM EST
    Aw. (none / 0) (#186)
    by halstoon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:38:15 PM EST
    Who doesn't love kittens? ;o)

    Jericho is back (none / 0) (#158)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:22:40 PM EST
    Unless they are rerunning episodes, but it's all new to me.  The military is in the town, they took vigilante justice when the military was absent, the son (I forget his name) was held hostage by the military to get the others to turn themsleves in, the man who hides the bomb was caught I think.... he was trying to get his secret guy to do something for him and I think the secret guy turned the bomb guy in to the military.....

    Jericho (none / 0) (#177)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:34:40 PM EST
    cancelled.  Alas, all the peanuts in the world won't bring it back.

    didn't SciFi buy Jericho? (none / 0) (#206)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:54:39 PM EST
    I heard that somewhere.  The new episodes this year were really good to, darn it.

    I stopped Olbermann several (none / 0) (#80)
    by hairspray on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:51:45 PM EST
    months ago.  But my husband still watches it and is now telling me how bad it is for Hillary.  I am not sure whether he has bought into the MSNBC mantra or if it really is as bad as he says.

    This will make my Friday night (none / 0) (#107)
    by rooge04 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:59:22 PM EST
    after BSG complete!!  I think the final cylon is...Apollo. I'm pulling that completely out of my butt.

    Baltar (none / 0) (#67)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:45:36 PM EST
    because, come on, even though Number Six was standing in front of him during the nuclear explosion, there's no way she could have shielded him.

    As an aside, I met him in NY once at Comicon (haha, and you claim to be a geek, BTD!) and he is such a little tiny man.  He is shorter than I am.  Like, maybe even short enough to be a little person and so skinny you couldn't see him when he turned sideways.

    Roslin: Best. President. Ever.

    Okay, and maybe a cylon.  Frackin' toasters!


    According to reports about a podcast (none / 0) (#82)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:52:03 PM EST
    from the producers, the final Cylon is NOT any of the characters shown in the "Last Supper" TV Guide cover photograph.  

    This means that Roslin, Adama, Apollo and Starbuck are out.


    Frack (none / 0) (#114)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:03:30 PM EST
    I forgot about the photo!  Who is left?  Gaeta?  The doc?  Cally?

    Maybe I should stick with Baltar.  Who do you think?


    Who is not in the photo? (none / 0) (#131)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:10:42 PM EST


    Callie (but it can't be her, because then she'd be married to a Cylon and she'd have no baby).

    Doc Cottle (maybe Cylons don't get lung cancer from cigarette smoking).

    Here's my guess: Admiral Cain.  Sure, Gina shot her. But who knows whether she's been downloaded into a new body.


    why do we think Cylons can't reproduce? (none / 0) (#170)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:30:58 PM EST
    Anders got sick and almost died, right?  And we know two of the Sixes fell in love (though why, oh why, does the first lesbian character [Cain] have to be a homicidal maniac?)  Though I really think Gina loved Cain.  Then, Boomer is very emotionally nuanced, especially around her kid.  Callie might be one.  Oh!  Maybe they used Starbuck's ovary?  Because maybe it takes a human female to become fertile, but not a human male?  Okay, I'm rambling here.  Cain grew up on Tauron and lost her family in the first war, right?

    I hope Leoden doesn't get to Starbuck again.  What a creeptastic toaster.


    Because the whole point of the Boomer-seducing- (none / 0) (#212)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:02:03 PM EST
    Helo plotline to produce the all-important Hera was because they couldn't reproduce between themselves. Same reason they stole Starbuck's ovary. Cylons need humans to reproduce. They are infertile with each other.

    I think Boomer explained this after she got preggers with Helo and Starbuck had her ovary stolen.


    Once, I liked (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by nemo52 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:19:50 PM EST
    Olbermann's righteous anger at the Bush administration's excesses and outrages, but the schtick wore thin after 3 or 4 repetitions.  The anti-Hillary stuff turned me off so much (along with the rest of MiSogenNyBC) that I left and have never looked back.

    not watching (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by bjorn on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:20:00 PM EST
    stopped watching KO and watch local news or nothing or come here and read the great posts, like the previous one on the exit poll data. Fascinating, way better than anything Keith ever had to say.

    I also like to scan the news online. I guess I am here because KO pissed me off so bad I went looking for news in other places.  When I was watching his show I was never surfing blogs or the news online. I am still a big John Stewart fan too!

    Nope, no Olbermann (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by otherlisa on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:21:04 PM EST
    It's sad, but I'm boycotting for the duration, as I am many blogs. I don't need to name them at this point.

    I don't think I'll ever watch him again.... (5.00 / 6) (#66)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:44:48 PM EST
    ..I can't stand Tweety, but I never thought much of him so oddly enough, I can still watch him because he's the same hack he always was. But Olberman actually disappointed me in a big way, and I will never trust him again.

    I feel the same (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by vigkat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:35:10 PM EST
    There's just no going back once you're eyes have been opened in such a jarring manner.  I can see him now in a way I didn't see him before.

    *your* (none / 0) (#222)
    by vigkat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:13:23 PM EST
    I don't watch any of it anymore (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:22:03 PM EST
    I tried to switch from Olbermann to CNN, but it was only marginally less horrible so I stopped watching all cable TV news. It's so bizarre what passes for political analysis anymore. Olbermann used to try to be above the fray but he's now just the lefty mirror-image of Fox News - irrational, dishonest, biased, etc.

    I also don't read many blogs anymore. Last time I went to DKos, I ended up reading some comments that said that it would be OK to sacrifice older democrats and have them leave the party because new young ones would then take their place. This was about the anger of some democrats re: the FL/MI voters. I just can't read that naive and immature stuff anymore.

    I haven't been to DK for many weeks now (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:25:55 PM EST
    I've finally stopped even checking the frontpage. One the last diaries I read made exactly the same point, although in a broader context than just FLA/MI.  Pissing off Clinton voters was okay because of the independents and Republicans and young people flocking to Obama.

    Well, it's nice to bring in new voters.  But you know what they say about a bird in the bush....


    My husband who has stayed with (none / 0) (#92)
    by hairspray on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:54:28 PM EST
    Olberman says that the governor of PA switched from Hillary to Obama because his daughter told him to.  My husband was impressed. I am not.  What is going on?  Is it 1970's again?

    Governor of PA? (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:12:15 PM EST
    Rendell is the governor.  Maybe he was referring to Casey?  If so, that's probably b.s. b/c Casey is a longtime Clinton hater.

    I'm normally a laid-back mom, but I unashamedly admit that I do try to influence my children's voting decisions, especially my son, who is a moderate Independent/Dem type who lives in PA, where his vote really counts.  I persuaded him to vote for Kerry in 2006 and he'll be voting for Hillary this month.


    Governor Rendell (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:20:08 PM EST
    has not switched his support. I think your husband has his Pennsylvania politicians mixed up. The junior Senator from PA, Bob Casey, recently endorsed Obama (but never endorsed Clinton so not a switch) and his father was the erstwhile Governor of Pennsylvania in the 1990s.

    Ed Rendell?? (none / 0) (#120)
    by AmyinSC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:06:07 PM EST
    If he switched to Obama, that is sure news to me.  Are you sure abt this??  He has been stumping with Clinton all over PA!

    This would NOT be the first time Olbermann has lied abt Clinton, btw.  He claimed that HER campaign had met with the Canadians on NAFTA, not Obama, and there was another whopper around the same time (videos proving a point - not watching KO!).


    Ed doesn't have a daughter (none / 0) (#130)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:10:19 PM EST
    They might be talking about Bob Casey, but he's Senator, not Governor, and he never supported Hillary.

    That Would Make Sense... (none / 0) (#138)
    by AmyinSC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:14:06 PM EST
    It just didn't make any sense for it to be Rendell.  And from all I have seen, NO ONE was surprised when Casey endorsed Obama...

    The early 90s stuff (none / 0) (#151)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:19:46 PM EST
    is water under the bridge. Frankly, I think Dick Durbin talked Casey into the endorsement.

    There was an article on that. (none / 0) (#215)
    by Faust on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:02:56 PM EST
    There was a Canadian publication which quoted people saying that Brodie had indeed recieved calls from the Clinton camp saying not to worry about NAFTA and to take the debate "with a grain of salt."

    It's very thin but it was a legitimate story in the sense that it came from a Canadian publication.

    I'm pretty sure that Brodie subsequently denied that along with everything else.


    I think my husband made (none / 0) (#235)
    by hairspray on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 11:10:28 PM EST
    a mistake.  It must have been the governor of Kansas and isn't that old news?

    Not Rendell (none / 0) (#132)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:12:11 PM EST
    Senator Bob Casey (who used to be the governor) endorsed Obama.  He's an anti-abortion guy who is pretty conservative on other issues as well.

    Closer (none / 0) (#146)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:18:12 PM EST
    Casey Sr was governor, Casey Jr. is the Senator. I'm biased when I discuss the younger one, but really he's just a standard issue blue dog.

    I didn't know there were two of them (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:22:37 PM EST
    Kind of like how Tom Kean Jr. was hoping that New Jersey voters would think he was his father.

    It's a family doubling as a political machine (none / 0) (#164)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:27:18 PM EST
    but the name is the asset.

    Yep. Everyone can be replaced. (none / 0) (#45)
    by jes on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:35:15 PM EST
    I've been following a bit a anti-choice Dem who wants an Obama/Casey ticket and thinks it would be good to replace the aging feminists with some socially conservative Republicians.

    I'm not sure this is my party if these are the types that are leading the charge and crashing the gates.


    I'm on the West Coast (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by vigkat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:22:36 PM EST
    Where Olbermann comes on at 5:00 pm and 7:00 pm.  I watch the local news.  Today, I flipped the channel and watched about two minutes of Olbermann to see if it was as bad as I recalled. Either it has continued to degrade or I have forgotten how bad it is, because it seemed worse.  He and Fineman, smugly dissing Hillary's campaign on some ground or other.  I flipped back to the local news.

    San Francisco? (none / 0) (#62)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:43:41 PM EST
    Yes, the City by the Bay (none / 0) (#214)
    by vigkat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:02:36 PM EST
    You too?

    No (none / 0) (#223)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:14:54 PM EST
    but I was wondering if we met in Chicago last August.

    You (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:23:10 PM EST
    I am watching what you and Jeralyn are reporting. I loved Keith, but no more.

    On the lighter side, got my usual DNC call, nope nope nope. Got my DNC your membership has lapsed card in the mail. Gee, they have a self addressed stamped envelope. I will have to send my 2 cents worth in with usual remarks. A nice lady called to ask if I was planning on voting for Hillary. She was happy to hear yes. A Britany type called and wanted me to support Barrack. Nope on that. I mean, who needs Keith when you have a phone around election time in Penna.

    no more KO (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Kensdad on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:24:50 PM EST
    i'm done with olbermann...  i used to watch him every night, but never again.

    thank goodness it's baseball season!  go Mets!

    Stopped watching Olbermann (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by kenoshaMarge on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:30:40 PM EST
    a long time ago. Someone with a giant head sitting there making adolescent insults about another giant head is not my idea of something worthy of my time.

    I spend more time reading. Working my way through Marion Zimmer Bradley for about the fourth time with Anne McCaffrey waiting in the wings and Katherine Kerr to follow.

    old politics (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by hughman on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:31:29 PM EST
    now i'm an old man (i'm 46) but have always been interested in politics.

    this may come as a shock to some of the obamaites ( and some of the clintonites) but there was a time when NOONE knew the outcome of the nomination before the convention, watching it on TV was like watching the Miss America Pagent where the outcome was a mystery until the states announced their delegate count.

    no one was panicking. no one was all atwitter, it was the way a campaign was held. people were allowed to make a choice when they made it.

    the election is held in November, not now. we should all be allowed to weigh our decision until we actually step in a booth and vote.

    I remember that! (none / 0) (#90)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:54:00 PM EST
    I'm even older than you are (53 next week).  I remember the excitement of watching the primary and election coverage on TV when I was a kid.  Perhaps I'm looking at the past through rose-colored glasses, but it seems to me that back then, the media didn't have this feverish obsession to predict (or influence) the outcome.

    we didn't have 24 hr news channels (none / 0) (#98)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:57:37 PM EST
    back then, and nightly news competing with them.

    24 hour news networks (none / 0) (#142)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:15:47 PM EST
    and the resultant need to always come up with a "story" were the death of real news coverage.  Well, that and the the fact that all of our networks are owned by corporate conglomerates.  News has become infotainment.  

    And on the first round of nominations, (none / 0) (#137)
    by FlaDemFem on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:13:52 PM EST
    the states got to nominate "favorite sons" for President. Then the second or third ballot they would switch to the candidate they had pledged to. I always liked that part of it. Sort of a nice way to say thank you to someone who has served the state well.

    You are mature but not old (none / 0) (#174)
    by macwiz12 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:32:12 PM EST
    At 63, I'm getting there.

    I remember watching the 1960 convention in a hotel room in Washington D.C. and my family's disappointment when our candidate, LBJ, lost the nomination to Kennedy.

    Many democrats still hide when LBJ is mentioned, but as it happens, my father had worked on his first congressional campaign in Texas and had met him personally on several occasions. We actually thought about becoming Democrats for Nixon until he selected LBJ for VP. As we learned more about JFK, we became great supporters. He was a LEADER. I can quote long passages of his inaugural address from memory. JFK created the commitment that put an American on the moon.

    JFK's speech on civil rights which had the text "... if, in short, he cannot enjoy the full and free life which all of us want, then who among us would be content to have the color of his skin changed and stand in his place?" is also etched in my memory.

    I first voted in the 1968 presidential election. It as by absentee ballot as i was serving on an aircraft carrier in the Tonkin Gulf. Although I was 19 at the time of the 1964 election, you needed to be 21 back then. It was okay for me to go to Viet Nam but i was too young to vote or buy a drink.

    JFK received the torch for my father's generation, Bill Clinton lifted it for my generation. We may be ready for a torch bearer from another generation, I'm not quite sure, we will just need to see how things play out.


    I haven't watched (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:32:40 PM EST
    Olbermann since his 'special comment' on Hillary.

    Let me guess: he has Fineman, Wolffe, and Milbank on, right?

    I caught a bit of Fineman (none / 0) (#91)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:54:05 PM EST
    None of the other usual suspects tonight.  Thank God.

    Only KO's I'm looking at these days (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:33:14 PM EST
    belong in baseball. Heard there was a game or 2 on  ;)

    I no longer watch MSNBC (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by IKE on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:34:42 PM EST
    Their ratings must be taken a nose dive because I don't know why anyone would watch that network anymore. Chris Matthews, Keith Olberman, Idiot shuster and the rest are so anti-hillary that I get sick every time I watch that channel. If they were to come out and publicly endorse Obama instead of pretending as if they are neutral than perhaps I might watch them. Craig Crawford the only fair guy on that network no longer appears. Maybe he's sick of MSNBC crap just like every body else.

    Yeah, whatever happened (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:38:45 PM EST
    to Craig Crawford?

    (Actually, Chuck Todd is very good, not biased either way as far as I can tell, but just reality-based.)


    Maybe I've missed it (none / 0) (#99)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:57:47 PM EST
    But as of the time my boycott/boredom started, Chuck Todd didn't appear very much on KO.  He's often on the Today Show, which is such a pleasant change from Timmeh.

    I doubt KO would have Todd on much because he's actually not into crass talking points.

    KO's show tonight ends with Michael Jackson Puppet Theatre. How appropriate.


    Don't know about Todd on KO (none / 0) (#128)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:09:13 PM EST
    since I haven't been watching him, but I bet you're right he hasn't been much.   Interestingly, he is on Matthews a lot, despite the fact that he very politely and in a low-key way tells him he and his favorite shills are full of xxx pretty regularly.

    I liked Craword as well- but (none / 0) (#173)
    by kenosharick on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:31:33 PM EST
    he was fair minded and not vicious towards Clinton, so he is rarely alloed on anymore. The last thing allowed by the MSM is unbiased reporting. KO was my hero and I looked forward to his show all day- I feel sad and terribly let down.

    Yeah, they got rid of Crawford (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:41:56 PM EST
    after he refused to drink the Kool-Aid.

    Now, KO is paying himself tribute by re-running his prior commentary on the Administration's changing excuses for the war. It's the fifth anniversary of Countdown this week, he's apparently been paying himself tribute all week.

    Actually, this segment is pretty good -- it's giving the lie to Tony Snow's assertion that Bush had only said the phrase "stay the course" eight times.  KO put together a clip with 29 other instances.

    It's too bad he doesn't do stuff like that -- you know, reporting -- any more.


    You mean his producer (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:49:54 PM EST
    doesn't make his interns scan Nexis anymore?

    Apparently not (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:55:05 PM EST
    I think they are getting whatever they put on the air from orange trees. ;-)

    I noticed they haven't asked (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by hairspray on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:59:52 PM EST
    Wes Clark back either. Next one will be Gen Paul Eaton, the general who retired early so he could speak out about Abu Ghraib.  He supports Hillary too.

    You're right hairspray. (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by jen on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:37:44 PM EST
    After Wes endorsed Hillary, that was it. He even asked us a while back to write MSNBC to have him on. He still has a contract with them.

    For the first time in a long time, he was on just yesterday with Dan Abrams.

    Here's a link to the video, and transcript:


    Interesting factoid I learned from him -- which many may already know. Gen. McPeak -- Obama's top FP adviser, is a-okay with McCain's plan for long term US troops in Iraq. Do Obamacans know this, and are okay with it?

    As for what I watch -- nothing. No teevee at all.

    Dad and I used to tune in to KO every night, although Dad always tuned out for odd-ball. Once the Hillary bashing started I stopped watching, and after a night or two dad got disgusted and quit too.

    Dad's an old-time, conservative Dem, steelworkers union, then operating engineers union worker -- always voted Dem, but can't stand Obama. (No experience, arrogant.) Didn't like Hillary at first, and originally said for the first time in his adult life he would leave the top slot on the ticket blank. Now, he says if Hillary's the nominee he'll vote for her. He says the Repubs/Media are scared of her because they know she'll beat McCain. Dad's pretty sharp for all his 81 years.


    Obamacans (5.00 / 2) (#187)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:39:59 PM EST
    trust and believe anything Obama says.  He will magically work it out and be everything to everyone in the end.

    Ah (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:36:22 PM EST
    I should have guessed.  

    Olbermann (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by disappointed on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:40:11 PM EST
    I agree with Dr. Molly above.  I do not watch anymore.  I stopped watching after New Hampshire.  I have stopped reading most of the opinion section of the NY Times for the same reason.  I had liked Altercation, but many of his respondents make digs at Hillary.  Yesterday,  with great disappointment I  read Digby lauding some female blogger who likens Hillary to Nixon.  Today, Atrios/Eshaton was my sorrow as he buys in to Josh Marshall's belief that Hillary is unelectable.  As I wrote once before, I feel abandoned by the left and center-left that I have supported since McGovern.

    it's spreading like a virus (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:52:07 PM EST
    I can't really understand this phenomenon of Hillary hatred and why it has spread so far and wide - indeed, it has deepened. There is a diary up at mydd about Randi Rhodes on Air America calling Hillary some horrifying names - don't know if it's accurate, but I heard a little of Randi Rhodes recently on a long distance drive and was very taken aback by how virulent her Hillary hatred was. What explains this level of hostility?

    I think the hostility (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:56:10 PM EST
    is an anti-woman backlash.  We've come too far for some folks' comfort, and as for the women who jump on the anti-woman bandwagon, they are simply aping the haters so they don't get attacked next.

    It's like Animal Kingdom all over again.


    used to be addicted. never watch it (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by neilario on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:40:16 PM EST
    He just disgusts me now. I had high hopes that his show would have been a place where issues could be discussed. but when he started the mad obama love it just got embarrassing.
    so - i went from religious daily dvr-ing to never.. and sometimes just to really kill his ratings i pop up billo on mute.

    i feel truly sorry for him in his newfound egotism and obama-mania

    His egotism is not newfound.... (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:53:46 PM EST
    ...it's just a lot more noticeable when you don't agree with him anymore. But he always thought highly of himself.

    I too quit KO (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by xrayvision on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:40:58 PM EST
    I thought I was all alone. I have all but given up on MSNBC. As much as it pains me, I actually now watch more FOX News than anything. MSNBC and KO are ridiculous!

    I, too, have taken KO off the (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by leis on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:41:46 PM EST
    DVR. No more, can't stomach the leading questions and smirk.  The television is usually on Comedy Central or Discovery, Nat Geo.  All my news is from the blogs and Charlie Rose.  I don't see myself returning either.

    Used to be one of KOs biggest fans (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by rockinrocknroll on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:42:44 PM EST
    But I quit watching Countdown for obvious reasons in late Feb. I watched again for the first time on Sunday night, but it was the same old "Clinton sucks! Obama is a saint!" stuff. I don't think I even made it through the full hour. I will not be watching anything KO does indefinitely.

    Don't watch Keith (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:44:31 PM EST
    or any other cable news, talking head, yada-yada.  I save 'teh teevee' for my mental comfort food/mindless entertainment (DWTS, American Idol).  History, Discovery, National Geographic Channel... Or I toss the ball for the dogs for their exercise, discipline,  affection (thanks, Cesar).

    I got a kick out of this article in TVByTheNumbers regarding Olbermann's Sunday night NETWORK special.  


    Apparently, not only did 60 Minutes beat him, America's Top Model and a repeat of King of the Hill also beat him in the 18-49 demo!  LOL! (although Keith beat the two in total numbers).  Keith always talks about how the demo is more important than the total numbers, so this should have left him scurrying off with pompous tail betwixt legs.

    Ha (5.00 / 0) (#70)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:47:13 PM EST
    KO is so far off my radar I didn't even know he was on in prime time last Sunday.

    Saw it totally by accident. (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:58:20 PM EST
    I had NBC on the other night from watching the local news and heard the Countdown opening music.

    What the hay? went into the livingroom and turned directly to 60 Minutes.

    Glad that happened because otherwise I might have missed one of the main stories, where Stahl interviewed Gore so he could talk about his partly-self-funded TV advertising campaign about global warming. What a guy.

    My favorite line was where Stahl mentioned that some really powerful people denied that humans cause global warming.  She mentioned one of those nay-sayers -- Dick Cheney -- as if Gore would be impressed by that.....at that point, I'm certain that if Gore had just taken a bite of Cheerios we'd have had golden O's scattered across the room! Gore contained his desire to laugh, then essentially called Cheney a 'flat-earther'.  Priceless.


    How ironic (none / 0) (#148)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:18:44 PM EST
    Cheney still believes there was a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda, but he doesn't think there is a link between human-caused carbon emissions and global warming.

    Oh, by the way, he thinks I'm the Queen of England.


    I want (none / 0) (#163)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:27:15 PM EST
    what he's smoking! ;-)

    I actually went through withdrawal (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Lil on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:44:32 PM EST
    when I deleted KO from DVR. Thankfully the Mets are back, but on the news front I try to catch a little of Rachel Maddow, even though she's on MSNBC. I think she's in Obama's camp, but I can take it from her because she's not nuts, and extremely well informed. Hard to know when she is on, however. Her radio show is good too.

    Any news on Pedro? (none / 0) (#147)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:18:21 PM EST
    Strains don't usually "pop" do they?

    he is hurt all the time (5.00 / 1) (#227)
    by Lil on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:18:57 PM EST
    I heard he's out 6 weeks.

    I appear to be the only person (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:46:02 PM EST
    actually watching KO.  He's still paying tribute to himself, by running more prior commentary.  I've learned two things: KO used to be thinner, and he used to be better.

    I am now returning control of my teevee to me.  Almost time to watch American Idol results with my 14 year old (hey, a mom will do almost anything to be able to curl up with her teenager on the sofa).  

    All of you with little ones -- do not miss any opportunity to curl up with them now.  Later on it becomes a rare treat.  Not because they no longer love you.  It's just that parents become...embarassing.

    I'm jealous (none / 0) (#72)
    by nashville on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:48:38 PM EST
    American Idol used to be a favorite show with my daughter who's off at college now :(  So now I watch and talk with my sis long distance.  We like to predict!

    Older daughter going to college in the fall (none / 0) (#108)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:59:38 PM EST
    Thank God I still have the 14 year old.

    I'm hoping Ramiele gets the boot. It would be too much to hope for Kristy Lee.


    Ramiele (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by nashville on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:05:57 PM EST
    is my prediciton...gotta go commercial over!

    Here-here about Ramiele (none / 0) (#123)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:07:51 PM EST
    Seems like a sweet kid, but she's in over her head.

    My favorite:  David Cook.

    Just read he had high blood pressure and palpitations after the show...at 25 yrs.  Went to the hospital and now he's back for tonight's show.


    I've been wanting Ramiele to go since (none / 0) (#196)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:46:53 PM EST
    well, Day One...

    And is it me, or is there something strange about Dolly Parton's face?  I really hate it when these truly beautiful women refuse to age gracefully...it's just so sad.


    The plastic surgery (none / 0) (#229)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:23:47 PM EST
    I actually think Dolly's is better than most, but she's definitely "had work".

    I do like her.  If she hadn't made it in music, she'd have been great in public relations.


    Where is she going? (none / 0) (#134)
    by nashville on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:13:07 PM EST
    Are we allowed to ask questions or is it OT.

    I think this is an open thread (none / 0) (#162)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:26:46 PM EST
    She is going to Yale.

    Ooh, I know an incoming senior ;-) (none / 0) (#166)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:27:56 PM EST
    Wow! & (none / 0) (#188)
    by nashville on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:40:26 PM EST
    thanks for reassurance! Didn't y'all just recently find out?  My daughter is in DC at school & protesting :)

    No, she found out in December (none / 0) (#193)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:45:26 PM EST
    She applied for Early Action.  But her best friend just got in Monday, and the two of them are thrilled!  They've been pals since kindergarten.

    Even more impressed! (none / 0) (#217)
    by nashville on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:04:13 PM EST
    I'm sure you're so proud and happy for her.  I feel your joy...to borrow/adjust an old Clinton phrase :)

    I am proud of her (none / 0) (#225)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:15:41 PM EST
    She's a political junkie just like Mom. She hasn't turned 18 yet, so she couldn't vote in the NY primary (for Hillary), but she's very excited to be able to vote in November.  

    Is the one guy (none / 0) (#183)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:37:24 PM EST
    australian.  I think his name is Michael.  He was last... he was great.  I'm tired of the irish lass.  She has a great voice but I'd like something uplifting.

    Michael Johns (none / 0) (#194)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:46:19 PM EST
    He was terrific last night.  Who knew he had a growly bluesy voice?

    First season I've watched and I'm hooked (none / 0) (#116)
    by Garbo on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:04:12 PM EST
    I just adore the young singer David Archuleta.  I don't know why, but he moves me to tears when he sings.  I think it's because he sings with such emotion.  He's such a sweetie.

    I don't want him to win (none / 0) (#140)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:15:09 PM EST
    even though he sings like an angel.

    I would be willing to consider adopting him, though.  I hear he has an awful stage dad and I could save him.


    How come ... (none / 0) (#181)
    by Garbo on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:36:55 PM EST
    ...  you don't want him to win?  Maybe it would be too much for him, poor thing.  He seems so innocent.  Even if he doesn't win he has a wonderful career ahead of him.

    Who do you want to win?  

    If you do adopt him, you've got my support :).  I can relate to the desire to protect him, he's so adorable and sweet.  


    I just think he's too young and immature (none / 0) (#198)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:47:44 PM EST
    to be a commercial success just yet.  I think he's very talented, but winning the contest for him would be kind of a waste.

    I used to like Carly the best, but David Cook has taken his place. I still like Carly, though. Michael Johns is also rising up on my list.


    I hear ya and agree (none / 0) (#232)
    by Garbo on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:29:27 PM EST
    He's not ready for all the commercial BS.  I would hate for it to corrupt him. His innocence and sensitivity is his charm.

    I agree with you re Carly and David Cook.  David Cook didn't stand out for me in the beginning but now I appreciate his unique voice and style.  

    I really like Brook White's voice and style, as well, but I don't think "AI Stardom" is her style.

    I think Michael Johns sings well but he does nothing for me.  Even though he's under 30 (I think?), he just seems too old and out of place in this years' competition.


    Problems with Olbermann (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by lentinel on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:51:25 PM EST
    I of course enjoyed when Keith would go after Bush.

    My reservations about him stemmed from:

    1.  He uses Edward R. Murrow's sign off without crediting him.
    2.  When he does an impression of O'Reilly, it is really of the character "Ted Baxter" created by Ted Knight - and sounds nothing like O'Reilly.

    3.  He uses "Sir" when addressing his criticisms to Bush.
    4.  He is very scripted and rarely speaks spontaneously. Edward R. Murrow spoke in a manner that was much more direct.

    So now all the love and money that was laid on him has gone to his head. The flaws that were apparent before all the money and recognition poured in have now blossomed into one gigantic enormous ego in full bloom.

    It's always best to pay attention to red flags.

    Olbermann Jumped the Shark (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by Garbo on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:52:01 PM EST
    Olbermann jumped the shark the day he attacked Hillary with one of his special comments.  

    My evening routine for the past several years was to come home from work and watch Countdown which I taped each day on my DVR.  I'd been a fan of Keith's since his show debuted (although I never liked the fluffy stuff and I especially didn't like the "Keeping Tabs", gossip, waste of time segment).

    I couldn't even bring myself to listen to his Hillary bashing special comment.  I stopped taping his show the night of the comment, went through about a week of withdrawals and now I take my pooch for a walk each night instead and I feel great!

    I was also a devoted DKos and TPM reader and I've kicked those habits as well.  

    Thank goodness for Talk Left, My DD, No Quarter, Taylor Marsh, etc. - I love you guys!


    MyDD NG (mostly) (none / 0) (#153)
    by pluege on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:20:24 PM EST
    MyDD is pretty wingnut anti-HRC Obamabotee. The only one readable is Jerome Armstrong. Unlike Open Left, dKos, and TPM, I've kept MyDD in my Firfox tab list, but I hardly ever read MyDD.

    Banned (none / 0) (#189)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:41:17 PM EST
    I rarely go there, but someone was writing that several people had been banned.  The Obama people were happy so I guess they cleaned house.  Do you know what was going on?

    You're right ... (none / 0) (#211)
    by Garbo on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:59:13 PM EST
    I should have just listed Jerome because he's generally the only person I read (and some of the diaries occasionally).  I try not to miss Jerome though, I like his style.

    Tom Watson's blog is really good, as well, and also The Left Coaster.


    Even before the primary, when he was (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by WillBFair on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:55:51 PM EST
    trashing Bush, I thought his talks were weak, full of insults and shallow perspectives. I think NBC is owned by GE and other defense contractors. So of course they're promoting public ignorance. Bottom line: Olberman is not a liberal, but he plays one on TV. There's really nowhere to go these days. The war and oil industries have put a hammerlock on pretty much the entire media. Even The New Yorker slams Hillary and does puff pieces on Obama. It use to be so charming and refined. No more. Now the writing is dumber than a box of rocks, and so vulgar you think it's published from Orange County. So I'm back on Tolkien. The spinmeisters can't ruin the classics.

    I've been watching Food Network (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by macwiz12 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:05:08 PM EST
    When the Food Network changed their schedule to put "Good Eats" in the same slot as "Countdown" I was sad. My two favorites were up against each other. I never did like the focus on celebrities and "American Idol" but lived with it. When KO went off on Clinton, I stopped watching. I was reading his book which I did finish. While it was interesting to read some of the special comments I had missed, I found "The Assault on Reason" by Al Gore more penetrating,

    Tonight there were two "Good Eats" in the 8-9 time slot, an interesting one on pasta and another on ravioli.

    I LOVE the food network (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:08:04 PM EST
    And you get great thanks for reminding me that a new Top Chef is on tonight on Bravo, as Kerdwyn did a couple of weeks ago.

    Bonus: all of the Japanese Iron Chef you could ever watch


    Ah, shoot... (none / 0) (#126)
    by AmyinSC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:08:34 PM EST
    I love that show, too!  I'll have to catch it later, though, since my Yanks are on...

    what is sad is the untrue propaganda being (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by athyrio on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:14:35 PM EST
    spread by Olberman and others now, and that will always make Obama an illegit nominee to me...He hasn't won fair and square and I would bet alot of this country feels the same way if he wins...

    TiVoed Stewart and Colbert (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:19:43 PM EST
    from the previous night.  I used to watch those after Olbermann.  Now I can get to bed an hour earlier.  It's all for the best.  I only half-enjoyed Olbermann's show anyway, even when I watched it.

    I would say (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by Oje on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:22:48 PM EST
    The three hours of tweety, Olbermann, and Abrams is increasingly lamentable imho (though, tweety is more execrable than lamentable after 10+ years on MSNBC).

    I also tuned into the Stephanie Miller show for 5 minutes yesterday--for the first time in over one month. The first caller she took wanted to share the sudden realization she had about Clinton's distinction between big states and little states: that "ignores half the voters," the caller marveled. This of course has been an Obama talking point since February, so apparently this caller hibernates during the winter months.

    I turned off the radio and enjoyed the soft sounds of wind rushing over the windshield--and pondered how long a community of people can persist by repeating the same three lines about unity ponies, monsters, and red states before they collectively lapse into a catatonic state...

    Fox Commentary (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:31:15 PM EST
    A small preview of what the Fox/Right wing has planned for Obama.  Hillary had nothing to do with this, it's all Obama's doing.  

    What I find interesting is the "good guy" and "new politics" persona is falling apart.  

    I've KO'd KO (5.00 / 1) (#234)
    by scorbs on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:32:43 PM EST
    Turned him off three months ago and have been boycotting NBC and MSNBC.  Refuse to turn them on.  This is roughly about when he began taking sides in the race; it is not his place to take sides.  He's supposed to be a journalist.  Turned off to Matthews long before that -- won't watch him at all.  Unfortunately it's spilled over to my NBC watching.  I used to religiously watch NBC news local and national.  Now can't stomach that whole network.

    oops - it's newsvips.com and follow directions to (5.00 / 1) (#237)
    by suzieg on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:40:24 AM EST
    become one of their news vips.

    If I were feeling masochistic. . . (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:20:06 PM EST
    Or I could read more WWTSBQ at dkos.

    What does this acronym mean? (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:23:06 PM EST
    What would the Senate bar-b-q?

    Hillary is great - but Obama is winning! (none / 0) (#11)
    by MSS on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:21:25 PM EST
    I like Hillary Clinton a lot. But I do not agree that she's being trashed (any more than Barack Obama is being trashed); and I do not agree that she is the better or more qualified candidate.

    This is not about race or gender, in my opinion:  I think that Barack Obama is winning because he is the better candidate for the times!

    Hillary is very smart; Barack is very smart. Hillary has great positions (some better than others); Barack has great positions (some better than others). Hillary is better on health care; Barack is better on getting out of Iraq. Hillary is running a decent campaign; Barack is running a better campaign (50 state focus, ground-up organizing, very good email campaign, terriffic fundraising).

    But the clincher is that Barack Obama is inspiring. He can inspire us to think about the world in a different way, and to take the difficult steps to make changes in the next administration.

    Will it be hard for him to win? Sure. Same with Hillary.

    I'm ready to fight for Barack (and for Hillary if she should win). But I'm inspired to work for Barack and for change.

    you do not agree she is being trahsed by NBC? (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:24:58 PM EST
    Well, then I do not know what I can think about what you have to say. Because to me that is as obvious a phenomena as there is in this campaign season.

    you are one of those blinded in love with Obama (none / 0) (#111)
    by TalkRight on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:00:26 PM EST
    there are many.. so don't worry...

    Re: Hillary is great -- But Obama is winning! (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by huzzlewhat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:00:58 PM EST
    "But the clincher is that Barack Obama is inspiring. He can inspire us to think about the world in a different way, and to take the difficult steps to make changes in the next administration."

    You had me in agreement until your clincher, here. Because you can't say, objectively, that he's inspiring and she's not. Obama obviously inspires you, and many others. But he, as a person, doesn't inspire me. Hillary does. I think you're making the mistake by making what Obama does for you, personally, into a universal observation.

    But I do agree that both candidates have a lot of strong points.


    There are a lot of people (none / 0) (#129)
    by Democratic Cat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:09:48 PM EST
    who find him inspiring--not universal, but there are a lot. (I think most of that is based on things he says in his speeches, but I could be wrong about that.)

    I'm with you, though. I find Sen. Clinton far more inspiring in what she has accomplished in her life and what she stands up to every day.


    Yes, Obama's been excellent at inspiring women (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by lambert on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:13:28 PM EST
    To organize against him. Of course, they're probably racists.

    typical white people (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:15:40 PM EST
    Hey Lambert (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:21:08 PM EST
    This whole nomination fiasco has highlighted your work for me. You're a gem of the blogosphere, and I'm keeping you on my reader.

    Ditto! (none / 0) (#168)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:29:52 PM EST
    I just found lambert's blog and it was like discovering an oasis in a desert!!

    I don't find him inspiring at all (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:33:58 PM EST
    Not in the slightest. He's not a fluid speaker, too many um's and ah's (without the teleprompter) and his words and ideas don't move me. He's Mr. Generality and uses too many buzzwords. Hope, change, optimism, yada yada.

    Yup - he is not good off the cuff (none / 0) (#192)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:43:44 PM EST
    I can't watch him off the cuff at all.  I can't understand what he is trying to say half the time. But I do like his prepared speeches, if only for the imagery and the performance.  I do agree there is little substance there.

    Actually, I can't watch those anymore either.  Sigh.

    I love the way Hillary explains things so clearly and concisely.  I'm a no nonsense type from northern Illinois myself, so I guess I appreciate that in her.


    Speaking of his lacklusterness (none / 0) (#195)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:46:25 PM EST
    When is the next debate?

    I'm so glad someone else (none / 0) (#203)
    by vigkat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:50:57 PM EST
    Sees him that way.  I will admit I thought his 2004 speech was good, but I've found nothing he has said since to come even close to inspirational.

    Couldn't agree more with non-inspiration (none / 0) (#224)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:15:02 PM EST
    I thought the '04 speech content was also very formulaic.  But he gave it very well.

    How is his Iraq plan better? n/t (none / 0) (#122)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:06:23 PM EST
    Can you give me an example (none / 0) (#169)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:30:06 PM EST
    of something he has inspired you to look at in a different way?  I really am curious.  I do find his speeches very moving, but I can't think of anything he has changed my mind about, since I agree with him already on most things.

    I was dutifully observing (none / 0) (#12)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:22:01 PM EST
    my nightly KO boycott, but when I saw this open thread I figured, maybe I can get through it with company.  Earlier, when I had turned the teevee on, Softballs had come up with Tweety fawning all over Obama. "Sen. Barata, er, Obama [yes, he really made that mistake], do you think the Clinton campaignis playing dog whistle politics by constanting referring to your former pastor."  Obama, to his credit, said no, because what Rev. Wright said was offensive.  But when Tweety said, how come you never left, Obama went back to his stock "I never heard him say the stuff on that tape...endless loop of the worst things he's said over a 30 year career..."  Tweety didn't challenge him on that.

    So, like I said, after a little channel flipping, I turned off the teevee to observe the nightly KO boycott.  By the time I turned KO on in response to this open thread, Howard Fineman was just winding up something about how Clinton can't get more superdelegates.  Then they segued into a dump on McCain.  How refreshing!  Dumping on the Rethugs!  Aw'right!  

    I wonder if the next segment will go back to harrumphing about Hillary's refusal to crawl under a rock and die.

    I am not boycotting anything (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:24:05 PM EST
    I just do not find the show interesting anymore.

    You can only preach to the choir (none / 0) (#25)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:28:56 PM EST
    so often before some of them start to fall asleep.

    I would start (none / 0) (#31)
    by bjorn on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:31:07 PM EST
    watching again if he ever had guests that disagree with him or even had a Clinton person for every Obama person. But he seems incapable of having guests that disagree with his haughty opinions.

    Well, you're right, of course (none / 0) (#51)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:38:14 PM EST
    It's not a boycott if it's not something you want to do.

    I guess that's why watching tonight feels like work.


    Endless repetition (none / 0) (#94)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:55:36 PM EST
    KO poses question with obvious answer, alleged pundit responds in predictable fashion.  Over and over.  No analysis.  Just the givens and accepted range of criticism.  

    KO's demographic is not us.  It's the sports guy who wants to watch some politics so he can have the soundbites at the next kegger or having beers after work.  


    Was hoping for an open thread to (none / 0) (#101)
    by Molly Pitcher on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:58:19 PM EST
    thank you and J. and (most) who post for keeping me from suicide lately.  I read the local rag, check news and opinion (!) on the net, and look at one news mag my daughter 'won.' When I finish those, I am in despair--the last sentient being still breathing. Then I come here and see that there really are some who know the difference between "We are the ones we have been waiting for" and "Ask not...." or "The only thing we have to fear...." or even "Give 'em hell, Harry!"

    Thank y'all!

    a postscript--what do I watch?  Mostly Animal Planet lately,  Better than elethumps and mules!


    Yankees! (none / 0) (#18)
    by AmyinSC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:23:59 PM EST
    Right now, I'm watching the Yanks play!  And I was a very faithful KO watcher until abt 2 months ago.  Then, he and Rachel Maddow drank the Kool Aide, and I took him off my DVR.  So, college basketball for a while, now baseball, fill that slot (except for the very funny shows on CBS on Mon., especially Big Bang Theory - freakin' hilarious!).

    Me too (none / 0) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:26:48 PM EST
    I fear they are going to stink this year.

    Ah, Say It Ian't So!! (none / 0) (#42)
    by AmyinSC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:34:20 PM EST
    I am surprised that Girardi has made essentially NO changes in the lineup...Damon in first position still?  Yeah, okay.

    My family were Brooklyn Dodgers people (none / 0) (#38)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:33:48 PM EST
    I don't know anything beyond that. :D

    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by AmyinSC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:34:45 PM EST
    Good one!

    my dad tried out for the (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:41:22 PM EST
    Brooklyn Dodgers -- must have been in the late 1930's or very early 1940's, before WWII. As he told it, he hit well enough but couldn't run fast enough.

    Jeralyn, have you read Wait 'Til Next Year (none / 0) (#209)
    by oculus on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:57:52 PM EST
    by Doris Kearns Goodwin?  Memoir of growing up in the 50s, the Dodgers, New York.  Good read.

    "Carpetbaggers". (none / 0) (#87)
    by oculus on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:53:40 PM EST
    A-Rod makes more than the (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:48:02 PM EST
    entire Marlins team.  But the Marlins beat the Mets last night.  Ain't life interesting.

    Yes, of course.  What else to watch now but baseball.  Yeah.  Go Pads.


    KO tolerable at the moment (none / 0) (#26)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:29:15 PM EST
    We're on the "Bushed!" segment.

    Domestic infiltration of U.S. activist groups finally discontinued.

    Lincoln Chafee's new book quotes Vice President Cheney saying in 2000 that the new administration was not bound by stuff they had to say to get elected.

    Study shows that most dangerous nation in the Middle East is...Saudi Arabia.

    Well, at least it was a few minutes of no Clinton-dumping.

    I was never a regular viewer (none / 0) (#37)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:33:43 PM EST
    of KO.  Even when I agreed with his opinions, I always found him hard to watch.  Countdown is too much of an echo chamber.  It must be at least six or eight months since I've tuned in.  

    For a couple of years, from 2005 up till this election season, I watched a lot of CNN, particularly AC360, but no more.  I've watched all of the debates and much of the primary coverage, but I avoid the pundits like the plague.    

    Now I mostly watch Netflix rentals as I wait for my favorite TV shows to come back after the writers' strike.  Oh, and I sometimes watch TDS and TCR.  But most of the time, I'm checking out my favorite blogs, like this one.  ;)  Needless to say, my bookmarks are a lot different than they were a few months ago.

    Anderson stayed pretty fair until recently. (none / 0) (#54)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:39:41 PM EST
    I don't like his "unbiased" panel though. Sometimes I read his live blog during the show and there are a surprising number of Clinton supporters tryng to "keep him honest".

    Anderson is OK (none / 0) (#73)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:49:15 PM EST
    but I'm disappointed in him.  He makes a big deal about not taking sides, which I suppose is why he hasn't challenged the pro-Obama bias of the MSM.  To his credit, he did push Obama a bit on the Wright tapes.  And I thought he did a decent job as a debate moderator.

    I can't stand his panel, the "best political team on television" or however they're billed.  Blecch.  


    law and order reruns (none / 0) (#41)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:34:06 PM EST

    Can't figure out why so many (none / 0) (#77)
    by oculus on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:51:00 PM EST
    who purport to detest Olbermann always seem to watch him.  

    No (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:53:05 PM EST
    The point is USED to watch him. I seriously have not watched him for a while. How much more can I beat him up?

    Sure fire method to gets lots (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by oculus on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:59:14 PM EST
    of comments; I'll give you that.

    He asked (none / 0) (#205)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:53:03 PM EST
    so I looked.  I saw Hillary tell the pony joke and then ran.

    we don;t anymore (none / 0) (#97)
    by bjorn on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:56:20 PM EST
    that is the point

    I don't have cable. (none / 0) (#115)
    by honora on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:03:34 PM EST
    Not having cable, I never watched MSNBC or CNN.  I did watch Comedy Central on line, but not anymore.  My problem is that I like to have a 'news' homepage.  I started w/ CNN, then MSNBC, ABC...now I am on CBS and I hate it.  Any suggestions on a homepage that will not drive my to drink??

    Go Beeb. (none / 0) (#119)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:05:58 PM EST
    good homepage (none / 0) (#127)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:08:53 PM EST
    My most favorite thread all week (none / 0) (#125)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:08:31 PM EST
    Awhile back Jeralyn posted a thread about what people were doing when there wasn't anything on to watch.  I had been making jewelry, just for myself.  I threw all the jewelry making stuff into a roughtote yesterday morning.  The HBO series John Adams started and I missed one episode last week.  I needed to catch up on Sunday night so that meant two episodes totaling up to three hours.  But Showtime's The Tudors was starting it's new season as well on Sunday night and I felt I needed to watch the last episode of last season to remember where I left off. They played it before the new season episode and that meant two hours.  At 1:00 am on Monday morning I'm still sitting in the livingroom peering at the screen.  Anybody else watching John Adams and laughing their butt off too that when it comes to being a licentious pig Bill Clinton couldn't even  hold a candle to Benjamin Franklin?  Benjamin Franklin won France over using only his glands ;)  When Dexter starts I pray that John Adams is over or on Monday morning at dawn I'll still be sitting there peering at the screen and looking pretty stale.

    I am actually reading McCulloch's (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:21:07 PM EST
    John Adams bio at the moment with my newly freed up 8 o'clock hour.

    Before that, I read Antonia Fraser's "The Wives of Henry VIII."  I'm a big Tudor buff but the current miniseries is so historically inaccurate I can't watch it.


    I know, but the Tudor stuff is pretty (none / 0) (#197)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:47:30 PM EST
    they've done a lot of historically inaccurate Tudor stuff lately but it all looks so good.  The most recent Elizabeth picture with Cate Blanchett wasn't really accurate.  And when she was old she didn't look old, but it was fun.  I saw an interview with McCulloch about the John Adams bio, I think he was a consultant for the mini series on HBO.  My husband got excited when Sam Adams' character made a show.....Wow, like the beer ;)  Kevin Spacey played a British officer and did such an incredible job I could barely tell it was Kevin Spacey.  David Morse is playing George Washington and they really did a job on him making him look like quarter.  And he speaks very softly as I've been led to believe that Washington did and he soooo tall walking around in the film.  I've loved watching the HBO series.

    I though that was Kevin Spacey (5.00 / 1) (#210)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:58:12 PM EST
    then forgot to check the credits.  I've been enjoying the series also. Paul Giamatti plays 'permanently annoyed' so well, without turning it into a cute curmudgeon type.  I liked the interplay between the Adamses and Thomas Jefferson in the most recent episode. It is fun to imagine what their conversations would have been like with that combination of personalities.  The portrayal of Jefferson is accurate to what I have read of him.

    I like the Tudor stuff too - I can enjoy it for what it is despite the inaccuracies.

    All a better use of an hour than KO!


    Have you read Fraser's (none / 0) (#199)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:48:02 PM EST
    'Mary Queen of Scots'?  One of my favorite books ever.  You will love it if you are a buff of that era.

    Yes, I've read it (none / 0) (#201)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:50:19 PM EST
    Best book about Mary I've read.

    Then I will add it to my need to read list (none / 0) (#213)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:02:09 PM EST
    I'm reading 'What If Buddha Got Stuck' right now.  It helps me feel less stuck which is no small thing in this current political climate being a military family ;)

    Sounds like what I need right now too (none / 0) (#220)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:06:43 PM EST
    I'll check that out!

    Don't move. Kathy and I are (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by oculus on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:31:32 PM EST
    enroute to perform an intervention.

    Kathy'll bring her Terminator Tivos (none / 0) (#200)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:48:56 PM EST
    that'll dry me right out ;)

    Oops. She may be the wrong (none / 0) (#202)
    by oculus on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:50:41 PM EST

    I really like Campbell Brown doing (none / 0) (#143)
    by halstoon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:15:52 PM EST
    "Election Center." She does a good job of getting at the real issues without wearing her ideology on her sleeve. Right now it seems MSNBC=Obama, FOX=GOP and CNN is for those who really enjoy an honest debate. Anderson Cooper is pretty vanilla, and Brown and Erica Hill are quality reporters, imo.

    Technically not an Obama campaign event (none / 0) (#149)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:18:54 PM EST
    Tweety was doing his "College Tour" thing and had Obama for his whole hour at a college in Penn.

    What I'm watching instead of KO (none / 0) (#167)
    by pedagog on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:28:17 PM EST
    Frankly, I'm watching NY Yankees baseball--much more entertaining!

    I'm a Cubs fan (none / 0) (#179)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:35:21 PM EST
    the only thing more painful than Tweety and Olbermann!

    No longer watch MSNBC (none / 0) (#182)
    by riverbird on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:37:20 PM EST
    I never turn to MSNBC anymore -- too many bags of toxic gas, including Keith Olbermann.  For cable news I watch CNN. Sadly, even FoxNews is less biased than MSNBC these days.

    I figure if the MSM is trying so hard to sell me (none / 0) (#185)
    by athyrio on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:37:48 PM EST
    Obama, I won't buy it because they are owned by the corporations....Makes ya wonder why they are trying so hard to push Obama.....LOL....

    Strategic Voting for Republicans (none / 0) (#204)
    by foobar417 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:52:02 PM EST
    I was asked on an earlier thread and told I could discuss it here:

    dk asked:
    I'm curious.  You say that voting in the Republican primary was a "reasonable strategy at the time."  What strategy are you talking about?  I mean, I can see how refusing to vote in the Democratic primary would have been a reasonable option for an Obama or Edwards supporter, but in what way did voting in the Republican primary help either one of them?

    My response:
    I'm a liberal Democrat. I live in Ann Arbor, with lots of other liberal Democrats. Every other house in the neighborhood (exaggerating only somewhat) has an Impeach Bush/Cheney sign. My point being that this was an area with lots of likely Democratic voters come November who are politically engaged and committed to ending the Republican dominance of our national politics.

    I found there was a lot of discussion at work, with other parents, etc. about what to do in the election in January. Among those Democrats I talked to, I heard seven common strategies before the primary election:

    1. I'm voting for Clinton because I prefer her as a candidate.
    2. I'm voting for Clinton because she's the only Democratic candidate named on the ballot, I always vote, and I could never vote for a Republican. (I also heard folks saying that they didn't want to vote undecided because they disliked Obama / or Edwards and didn't want the undecideds choosing if the election came down to Obama vs. Edwards.)
    3. I'm voting undecided because I favor Obama or Edwards.
    4. I'm voting for Undecided, even though I favor Clinton, because this election is a crock and I want to send a message to the state Democratic party.
    5. I'm not voting because this election is a crock and I want to send a message to the state Democratic party.
    6. I'm voting for Romney because my vote in the Democratic primary doesn't count. I'm picking Romney to get the weakest Republican candidate in November / to maximize the chance of the Democratic candidate winning the presidency. (I'd call this the tactical Democrat strategy.)
    7. I'm voting for McCain because my vote in the Democratic primary doesn't count. I'm picking McCain because he's the least bad of the viable Republican candidates and, if the Democratic candidate loses in November, I'd like the most palatable Republican president for the next 4 years. (I'd call this the loyal American strategy.)

    While I've since read on many blogs (pro-Clinton and pro-Obama) that "everyone knew that the delegation would be counted", I certainly didn't find that to be the case. Most people were just upset that the election was an apparent crock.

    Likewise, I heard absolutely ZERO discussion of the possibility that "you should not vote Republican because there might be a revote in the Democratic party and then you couldn't participate in the revote."

    Sure, you could argue that a truly smart voter would have thought through these contingencies, made a decision, and must now suffer the consequences. However, I certainly saw a lot of Democrats coming to different decisions, and I'd hesitate strongly before disenfranchising any of them. Note, most of the voting strategies might seem to favor proponents of one of the three Democrats, but there were folks drawn from all 3 camps for every strategy but #1 and #3.

    So, returning to the original question, why vote in the Republican primary?

    If you felt like the Democratic vote was a waste and if you had no idea there could be a revote, then there were two good reasons to vote Republican in the primary, even if you had every intention of voting for the Democratic candidate in November. The two strategies were at odds with each other, but both had merits. A reasonable percentage of the "loyal Democrats" (10%? I'm not sure if I actually read that somewhere or am confusing it with another factoid) chose to vote in the Democratic primary. I would think it likely that most were Obama or Edwards supporters, but we don't know that for sure.

    The problem is that there is no way to figure out where these people would have voted given a full slate of choices. You can't distinguish them from true Republicans without giving those true Republicans the ability to make mischief in a Democratic primary.

    Basically, there's no way to fix it now that isn't unfair to some fraction of the likely Democratic voters in November. So, saying that "Michigan voters will be upset if their preference isn't represented at the convention" is true. However, this does not lead to the conclusion we should either ratify the existing election as if it represented the real view of the voters or revote with participants in the Republican party included / excluded. In fact, any of the proposed solutions that purport to represent the will of the electorate will disenfranchise some fraction of the Democratic electorate. They are all unfair to someone. Not allowing the Michigan Democratic delegation to vote has the advantage of being fair (or equally unfair) to all candidates. All of the other solutions are unfair to some subset of the candidates, IMO.

    Hope that answers the question.

    Strategic Voting for Republicans (none / 0) (#208)
    by foobar417 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:56:06 PM EST
    In my ramblings, I realize I didn't address the original question head-on.

    Voting in the Republican primary theoretically helped the Democratic party as a whole or the country as a whole. If you are a loyal Democrat or a loyal American, couldn't find a satisfactory way to express a clear choice for your preferred Democratic candidate, then it was reasonable to do the next best thing for the party as a whole or the country as a whole and vote in the Republican primary.


    I've voted in some Rep primaries in the past (none / 0) (#216)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:03:02 PM EST
    I used to have a notion that I could use my vote to try to bring the Republican party back to the center.  Did not work as well as I hoped!

    My faves have been off for months (none / 0) (#207)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:54:55 PM EST
    I want Cane, Shark, 24, Gray's Anatomy and Brothers & Sisters back. Even Desperate Housewives. Medium is okay.  I even watched Cashmere Mafia and just as I started getting into they pulled it. I tried Lipstick Jungle but couldn't get into it.

    I watched Gone Baby Gone this week, that was actually pretty good.

    I wonder how David Gregory's new MSNBC show will be.  He used to guest host for Geraldo when he had Rivera Live and it was always fun to be a guest on the show with him hosting. He's a very nice guy. He was in Denver to cover the McVeigh trial and ended up marrying one of the lead prosecutors on the case. They have 3 kids now, I'll bet she's glad he'll be off the campaign trail and home in DC a lot more.

    Love Brothers & Sisters, (none / 0) (#219)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:05:46 PM EST
    but Grey's was starting to get on my nerves - could Meredith ever make up her mind?

    Also love Ugly Betty.

    There will never be another Sex and The City - Cashmere Mafia and Lipstick Jungle just fell a little flat for me.


    I like Gregory too (none / 0) (#230)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:25:46 PM EST
    He's a good host -asks interesting questions without acting full of himself.  I'm glad to hear he is a nice guy in person.  

    I think his show has started already, or maybe he was hosting as a substitute recently.  It is on at 6:00 pm here on the east coast, and I am hardly ever home at that time, but I happened to catch it one day last week.  It has some interactive elements - not the typical talk show.


    Question- is there going to be another (none / 0) (#218)
    by kenosharick on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:04:53 PM EST
    debate? I have not heard anything and I thought there would be one soon.

    right before Pennsylvania (none / 0) (#228)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:21:34 PM EST
    The date Apr. 16 for the debate comes to mind, but I could be wrong.

    Then another one right before North Carolina.


    No KO anymore. pretty much no English TV at all (none / 0) (#221)
    by LCaution on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:06:57 PM EST
    I discovered KO early in his anti-Bush phase & was impressed (also liked the "Worst Person in the World"), but then he got addicted to his Special Comments - so they weren't so special anymore & deteriorated in quality. Then he joined the Hillary Haters.

    So: no KO, no MSNBC, no CNN, no ABC, CBS, or NBC.

    I've also had to stop reading my so-called liberal mags. Newsweek has turned into a combo of Christian Monthly & ObamaWeek. So, I get the basic news from NPR and the WSJ's front page (not yet touched too much by Murdoch).

    As for TV: 5 Spanish language networks, RAI and TV5. If there is anything earth shattering, it will be on one of those (often before it hits English-language news).

    Stewart on the 'Clinton should quit' theme (none / 0) (#226)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:16:08 PM EST
    Just watched last night's 'Daily Show' and they have a great montage of all the 'Clinton should get out', and 'she's destroying the party' clips from the news shows.  Glad to see he makes them look very silly

    So...BTD (none / 0) (#231)
    by kredwyn on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:27:26 PM EST
    How was Keith?

    Comments Closing (none / 0) (#233)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:32:15 PM EST
    New open thread is here.

    become a news vip for NBC (none / 0) (#236)
    by suzieg on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:37:41 AM EST
    I joined newsvips@nbc.com and this week they were asking if I watched Countdown, Hardball or Verdict -it's a great place to vent your frustrations about their Obama lovefest -it's an important site because it all boils down to their advertisers - so your answers have more weight. Also write to steve.capus@nbc.com (president NBC NEWS) and to phil.griffin@msnbc.com (President of NBC) and also to letters@msnbc.com to complain - if you don't take action nothing will ever change!
    I started watching morning Joe - he's quite fair to Hillary and sense a distaste for Obama - keeps repeating that he's in love with Hillary - that she's tough and he wants her to answer the phone at 3:00am and that he's going to write a book about her and name it true grit... he continously ridiculed Obama's bowling and accused him of not being a "REAL MAN" - he's refreshing but do not know how long it will last....